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Some time ago there were hints & speculations that Samsung bada mobile OS might use some Enlightenment libraries.

Considering that Samsung hired Carsten Haitzler, the main figure behind E17, that wouldn't be too far fetched.

It was "Yay, 2.1 in spring, no summer, no, wait, you'll get 2.2 directly at some point... oh hell we're having some unspecified trouble."

I tend to believe the unspecified trouble claim, for now. Probably Samsung just needs to learn to let go and enlist the aid of the community in adapting the generic distribution to their hardware. According to Rasterman Samsung is beginning to get it. Of course, there will be conflicting forces within the organisation.

It really isn't so hard to understand.

The problem has always been, Rasterman is the projectleader and he never got a job where he could dedicate all his time to the project. If that would have happend he could have done some real 'damage'.

He had been working on embedded before and he alwasy wanted to make E17 be usable for that as well.

Have a look at this video of e17 running on an Compaq/HP iPaq from some years ago (the webserver says last-modified: 23 Oct 2004):

http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem.avi

Now he works at the company working on the freerunner and he actually gets that time to work on these things and thus it's moving forward again.

See Raster's news page. Scroll down to Sunday 29 May 2005 or search for "E17 is being optimised". It's obviously quite dated, but interesting anyway. Granted, if someone's product looks good because of the tests the same person wrote, you have to take the results with a grain of salt... but it is all open source. I have always hoped someone who knew X really well would come along and make a more complete window manager performance and benchmarking suite.

Also of interest on the same news page is the Monday, 21 November 2005 entry, "Memory fragementation under Linux and Enlightenment". If nothing else, it's evidence that Rasterman truly has put a lot of time and effort---or at the very least, thought---into the performance and system requirements of his software. Can't fault him for that.

I would hate to use a stylus, this is a much more usefull interface:

http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem-live.avi

(this was for the iPaq, the buttons below the screen of the iPaq are used to navigate a full-screen menu)

(and also is E17)

I would hate to use a stylus, this is a much more usefull interface:

http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem-live.avi

(this was for the iPaq, the buttons below the screen of the iPaq are used to navigate a full-screen menu)

(and also is E17)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwzCsOFxT-U

It's not underpowered. The software will be optimized for the platform, making it possible to make efficient use of resources. Look at the video. Chat client, word processing, drawing, .. All that you have too. The applications are different though. They are supposed to be different.

You misunderstood the meaning of OLPC. It's *not* for making kids C++ programmers. It's for assisting in the digital divide problem. The first step is a baby step. Teach kids how to read and write well. Nurture that skill, make them chat with each other etc. Then, provide the most basic content connectivity to give them information and possibility to use services. Official services. Stuff like that. If they tried running before learning how to walk they would but fall and hurt themselves. It would lead to a complete failure.

The GUI doesn't have to be like Windows or other earlier ones because the target group has no knowledge about such. All that matters is that it is usable and it actually seems pretty damned working one. That and EEM ( take a look at http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem.avi ) are imho the most usable user interfaces that spare precious screen resolution estate.

Did you by the way understand that there might not be classrooms available everywhere? The distance to the nearest school might be in hundreds of kilometers or there might be too severe weather to attend at all times. It's not easy elsewhere to get schooled. OLPC can reduce the actual need for physical classrooms and teachers and such. Furthermore digital "pen and paper" in the long run saves money. You can write 10 000 euros worth paper and pens on that 100$ OLPC.

Seriously, you have grown in a way too easy and protected environment. You're spoilt.

Even going up against Compiz, the completely non-accelerated, non-3D Enlightenment DR17 manages to be vastly more beautiful. And it's fast and incredibly light-weight, too. Nothing else delivers eye-candy and performance like Enlightenment.

Yeah whatever man. Tell that to him http://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=Me

Not toeing the line?
Because you are harshing on one of the highest Holy Grail joke-butts in Slashdot history?

You could try to be a little more appreciative, but that's not troll-material on its own, A/C..

E17 is not E16, E15, or even E14.

Do yourself a favor, get it in front of you, and see the Easter Bunny do a jig with the Tooth Fairy under a fleet of Flying Pig musicians. There's more to it than "Oooh, shiny"

Are you trying to get us to convince you? Take a look - not at screenshots. See it in action, then look at some screenshots circa 1998.

Look at Avalon & Aqua, and consider the programming forces behind them.

Now, take a look at Rasterman.

And I'm no fan-boy of any spelling. It's just good stuff!

Also, ICQ has been in beta for about that long. Google was in beta for what, a year & a half?

Beta, shmeta. Is there code? Does it run?

Enlightenment is getting stronger: http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-03.avi

The right moving background can be calming and relaxing. I can't wait to see it take off.

how does it help me in becoming more productive?

Why only productivity. Why can't it just look nice? Also it is not as if it is something new. Just in case they think about patenting, here is some prior art:
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-00.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-01.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-02.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-03.avi

how does it help me in becoming more productive?

Why only productivity. Why can't it just look nice? Also it is not as if it is something new. Just in case they think about patenting, here is some prior art:
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-00.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-01.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-02.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-03.avi

how does it help me in becoming more productive?

Why only productivity. Why can't it just look nice? Also it is not as if it is something new. Just in case they think about patenting, here is some prior art:
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-00.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-01.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-02.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-03.avi

how does it help me in becoming more productive?

Why only productivity. Why can't it just look nice? Also it is not as if it is something new. Just in case they think about patenting, here is some prior art:
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-00.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-01.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-02.avi
http://www.rasterman.com/files/e17_movie-03.avi

...we're seeing visual enhancements to linux from other devs - and without the bloat!

Also checkout Raster's site.

Can you imagine a graphics system that runs on PDAs, your computer from 1999, and your shiny new boxes? E17 is just f'ing brilliant.

Not personally, but there are people who do (or at least should if they don't) because that name is associated with their reputation... eg. Rasterman

Rasterman http://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=News posted some videos of enlightenment doing some stuff like that just after havoc's original post. And let me say that I tried e17 in a p200mmx, and even with all the shining stuff moving around, it still was more responsive than GTK2.

Of course, before enlightenment 17 hits final, it will be rewritten by the millionth time to support holographic interfaces in flying cars for cyborgs. But it will still support it earlier and better than GNOME or KDE :)

Combine it with the new Enlightenment stuff:
This one
This one
This one
This one

So who said that Linux was mainly textbased?

Combine it with the new Enlightenment stuff:
This one
This one
This one
This one

So who said that Linux was mainly textbased?

Combine it with the new Enlightenment stuff:
This one
This one
This one
This one

So who said that Linux was mainly textbased?

Combine it with the new Enlightenment stuff:
This one
This one
This one
This one

So who said that Linux was mainly textbased?

To me, it sounds like a man named Rasterman responded to some criticism by two men, one named Seth, another named Havoc.

His site is a blog, go to http://www.rasterman.com/

Fully agree with you.

Anyone who have seen engage or entice or any other E app based in the new EFL knows what it's. The real power seems to be behind evas/edje. Just go to http://www.rasterman.com/news.html and check the "Avalon vs E" topic, they have a sort of "UI markup language".

They're a couple of years ahead of Gnome/KDE/Longhorn/MacOSX in that field IMNSHO. Impressive.

You can probably have an opinion on how cute the window manager is the way they show it. Come on, KDE and GNOME are no eye candy at least not the way Enlightenment used to be when it came out and when I used to DL their cvs stuff (and what d'y'all think about E17? I've been waiting for ever for DR17 but I got over it). So there must be a better way than a WM shot at the distro to show off a release.

Raster is the one who couldn't spell, and it looks like he still can't http://www.rasterman.com/. I wonder if he's dyslexic or something.

Anyone interested in what rasterman and crew have been up to should really check out and compile the EFL (Enlightenment Foundation Libraries)

Some really neat stuff is on the way, of particular interest is the edje/evas/evoak stuff. Eventually this work will lead to an improved themeing system, for E and anything else that ties in to the EFL.
Rasterman has even given a glimpse of the power these libs will bring to the programmer with his own version of a DVD player, using the EFL, in just 17 lines of code!

so no, contrary to popular belief...E is NOT dead!

The Future of OSS Desktop Development, Part II is a current discussion of the blog debate between Havoc Pennington and Miguel de Icaza regarding Havoc's initial essay on Mono, Java, and the Linux desktop.

also worth a read is Rasterman's (lead developer of the Enlightenment project) comment.

educate yourself.

peace

Thanks a lot Rasterman! We've all been looking forward to E17, with its EFM, EVAs, and the rest of the toys. But now you've made a joke. Shame on you.

Well, let's make the joke on you!

Raster live in Australia, where it is now actuallt April 2nd, which kind of pins the joke on him.

But even more fun: Raster lists his Australian mobile phone number on his homepage!

It's about 1AM in Australia now. Why don't you thank him with an SMS to 61 413 451 89.

I hate being pranked! Revenge is so very sweet!

(This is a joke people. Pranking in fun!)

Thanks a lot Rasterman! We've all been looking forward to E17, with its EFM, EVAs, and the rest of the toys. But now you've made a joke. Shame on you.

Well, let's make the joke on you!

Raster live in Australia, where it is now actuallt April 2nd, which kind of pins the joke on him.

But even more fun: Raster lists his Australian mobile phone number on his homepage!

It's about 1AM in Australia now. Why don't you thank him with an SMS to 61 413 451 89.

I hate being pranked! Revenge is so very sweet!

(This is a joke people. Pranking in fun!)

Some Enlightenment on the issue.

For a start there is: Australian Contributions to the Linux movement

Rasterman, the main developer of The Enlightenment is already porting EVAS, the gfx engine of E17 to run on Zaurus LINUX. Here are some pics.

However, now Raster is trying to talk about the direction of linux in general. And while I'm certainly no-one within the community as compared to someone who has contributed as much as raster, as a long time *nix user, not just as an admin managing servers, but also running quite a few desktops, I think I have some room to speak here. What he's talking about direction-wise here is no longer just his project. I hope Raster will lend me some grace here in taking up a contrary position to some of his points.

Not on the desktop. Not on the PC. Not on anything that resembles what you call the desktop. Windows has won. Face it. The market is not driven by a technically superior kernel, or an OS that avoids its crashes a few times a day. Users don't (mostly) care. They just reboot and get on with it. I don't disagree with his argument that the market isn't driven with by a technologically superior kernel. I think windows users care, they B&M about it all day long. They just don't care enough to endure the pain of switching. For many of them, learning the first time around was a chore and they don't want to go through it again. Others have been using windows so long they can't even conceive of something different.

My big disagreement on this point is its effect on Linux. I don't believe this kills linux on the desktop. If a superior availability of apps, and a greater market share were enough to kill all competition then why did linux come to be in the first place? How does apple survive? Why is OpenBeos there? Why are people fighting to keep the Amiga alive? (Really, I want to know on that last one. ;-) J/K I've heard that speel from too many people to want to hear it again)

No, I say that linux should never DOMINATE the market, and if it does, chances are I'll have stopped using it long before then. But was that ever really our goal? I can't recall a time when Raster has EVER said that it was his goal to see everyone use E. More than that I have vague recollections of him saying the opposite. And other than the wackos (who do not, afaict, represent the core of linux users and developers) bent on linux ruling the world instead of cracking jokes about it I don't think anyone else in linux does either.

Instead, linux, its applications, the kernel, everything are all about choice. People write compatible apps not to outdo MS, but to provide alternatives. They make workalikes to make it easier to escape. Does that mean NOBODY should use windows? Well, the response to that varies. Maybe in its current form, but if there was enough competition that MS was forced to truly improve it I don't think people would say no, nobody should. I don't think the "desktop war" was ever a war. This isn't a zero sum game. There isn't just one winner and everyone else is a loser.

Instead, if you maintain users and enough people use/contribute to your project to keep it going then you are a winner.

[Linux's] life on the desktop is limited to nice areas (video production, though Mac is very strong and with a UNIX core now will probably end up ruling the roost).

Who cares? Do we only make products if EVERYONE is going to use them? What kind of sense is that? Everything has a target market. Are the Grandma's and Grandpa's of this world really our target market? I don't think so. Not that that means we don't care. What Linux does makes their life better indirectly simply by providing choice even if we aren't the best one for them. Linux has paved the way. It has demonstrated that you CAN compete with MS, you just can't be someone who can be bought or stomped on by their monopoly. By providing an active choice others can come along and try and follow that guide to provide an OS for G&G. Heck, that is probably one place where you really COULD make money consistantly on service vs. sales of software. ;-)

The only place you are likely to see Linux is the embedded space. Purpose-built devices to do a few things well. There is no encumbent app space to catch up with as a lot of the apps are custom written. It's still a mostly level playing field. This is where the strengths of Linux can help make it shine.

I am not sure how you make this logical jump. Maybe if WinCE and MS Office didn't exist for handhelds. But considering your other points, if one accepts them at face value we'd have to say that MS has already one on that front too. They /already/ have the apps, and they /already/ have the name recognition. And, if you discount cross-platform preferences there (desktop -> PDA, which I know isn't the only potential for embedded devices but I'll use it here for reference) what about palm? It's already got brand recognition, and it has apps, and people are familiar with it.

Why? I say for choice. Myself, I choose linux. I just picked up an iPaq this week in fact. I'm running familiar on it. I tried WinCE. It was fun playing solitaire, but I need to do some stuff with it so installed familiar. I played with the X side for awhile and now I'm trying out opie, but what I really am looking forward to is playing with raster's creations he's been working on with his ipaq. So far, it's scary, but WinCE is more useful to me atm on the ipaq than linux is. Suspend doesn't work, I can't synchronize my todo lists, address book, etc. But I don't care. Part of using Linux is contributing. I'll keep hacking on it until it does what I want, and running linux allows me to do that.

I'm just so tired of people guaging linux's success by how accessible it is to the average user with below-average computer skills. You can't take someone elses target market and complain because they can't use a product not aimed at them. Please excuse, but I think that's just ridiculous.

I choose BSD with the advertising clause.

Woot! One of the many things I've always loved about Raster. Which brings me to another thing I love about Raster, his typing habits. If it wasn't for the fact that the content refelcts Raster I'd have to wonder if he wrote this at all. ;-)

.... Gosh, upon previewing this is a really long post. If I rambled, I claim is my excuse that I'm under the influence of Tylenol PM. ;-)

short-term recall and task performance were dependent on whether the task/info was learned while the subject was in the same state of mind for the testing (learned stoned, performed straight; learned stoned, performed stoned; ...).

I have some anecdotal evidence to support this. I know a auto-body repair guy that is just freakin awesome at his job when he is slightly boozed up. He can't concentrate on the task when he is sober, and just plain sucks.

I also know of a few programmers that are genious when they have a pint or two in 'em. Ex: Raster man... ;) But, just try to read their code when they are straight... EEK! (We all love you, raster)

I have no doubt that this phoenomenon(sp!) exists...

The creativity that one goes through to produce art or software is one of the same. Artists go through many inspirational moments, as well as tedious ones. So do software engineers. With people like rasterman around, do you really think there is a line at all?

-ds

My question is : doesn't imlib2 has some sort of mechanism to do exactly what I saw on gnotices?

My question is : doesn't imlib2 has some sort of mechanism to do exactly what I saw on gnotices?

Abe

According to http://www.us.rasterman.com/news.html, ``I've been working on Enlightenment 0.17 too - and well- optimizing it too. I'm pretty sure its currently the fastest window manager out there - admittedly not 100% complete - just check it out of CVS. I've been doing performance comparisons with blackbox, fvwm, twm, windowmaker, sawfish, mwm and fvwm2 - and enlightenment 0.17 sofar equals or beats them in every speed test i throw at it.'' I find this quite interesting.

But on another, slightly off-topic note.. everyone here is talking about 3D hardware acceleration. What ever happened to 2D hardware acceleration and how to it's not supported in X or seemingly trying to be supported?

Almost nobody here is talking about 3D hardware acceleration. Thiss is all about 2D. Contrary to popular belief OpenGL does 2D as well as 3D.

--Ben

How about this? Or this? These shots are from raster's web page, and are actual screenshots. They aren't even from 0.17, but from 0.16+EFM.

How about this? Or this? These shots are from raster's web page, and are actual screenshots. They aren't even from 0.17, but from 0.16+EFM.

How about this? Or this? These shots are from raster's web page, and are actual screenshots. They aren't even from 0.17, but from 0.16+EFM.

Hmmph.

Actually, really, I suppose it's not much to do with X Render anyway, and is more like the GLUI tollkit mentioned in this comment. (GL is actually rather good for pixely 2D stuff).

Then again, maybe I'm letting him off easy 'cause he's an ex-Amiga hacker like myself (only he's better, of course.)...

His archival screenshots ( 1 2 ) of his amiga desktop from back in the day (early '90s)really illustrate how far behind Unix was on the GUI side
of things when the Amiga was at its peak - I had a similar looking desktop, and, boy, twm was a big step backwards...

Hmmph.

Actually, really, I suppose it's not much to do with X Render anyway, and is more like the GLUI tollkit mentioned in this comment. (GL is actually rather good for pixely 2D stuff).

Then again, maybe I'm letting him off easy 'cause he's an ex-Amiga hacker like myself (only he's better, of course.)...

His archival screenshots ( 1 2 ) of his amiga desktop from back in the day (early '90s)really illustrate how far behind Unix was on the GUI side
of things when the Amiga was at its peak - I had a similar looking desktop, and, boy, twm was a big step backwards...

Yes, it all looks very nice, but it's not earth shattering is it?
Imlib2 has been able to do the alpha blending thing for ages, it hasn't been used much outside efm, but it's there. Dunno about antialiased fonts yet though.
Maybe the reason nobody knows about it is because it's not actually that usefull. But i'm sure that's missing the point - it looks nice, and that's what's important. Ace.

BS
Aqua is still second at most

You thought that was wild, try loading raster's redesigned site on a regular modem. On the ISDN at work, it was a PITA, but I shudder to think about it on a modem. Looks cool on broadband, though....

Maybee its just me but that stack of icons at the bottom of the screen reminds me alot of the panels in gnome or kde. And as far as anti alias support its coming along fine in the opensource world. And as far as high color icons and widgets that isn't an apple innovation, thats a tigert/mosfet/gtk/raster innovation. Not to mention all of the fine work of the creators and users of themes.org