Slashdot Mirror
E17 Available From CVS
Lisandro writes "As stated by Rasterman on his site, Enlightenment 0.17's window manager is now available on CVS, which means you can build e17 completely from it, as it is, and give it a try. Of course, it's still work in progress, and lacking in several areas, but it is usable, and looks as gorgeous as ever. Also, in related news, the XFCE team, one of the best 'light' desktop environments for *NIX, has released the first release candidate for XFCE 4.2, with a lot of long due improvements." About e17, Rasterman's note says "It's limited in its support for ICCCM, no NETWM support and it has no iconification, virtual desktops, shading, keybindings or button bindings, but it does WORK (just). it's also fast and beautiful."
Enlightment has been work in progress for many many years and did include a complete rewrite. Which is OK because Rasterman considers himself an artist not a programmer. As for real world every day use, I'll stick to sawfish.
Here
Does anyone have any screenshots of it that don't look like one of those hacker greetz pages you used to get on pirated Amiga games?
Sunday you're Thinking Different, Monday you're a huge tool, paying too much and waiting to think like everyone else.
Wow. So basically, you're saying it compiles! That's headline news. Or not.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Personally, fluxbox is my favorite light desktop. What advantages do enlightenment or XFCE have over fluxbox? (if any)
I do security
Without Brian Harvey... *sigh*
SourceForge Logo
Support This Project
Welcome to The Enlightenment Project.
We are dedicated to providing advanced graphical libraries, tools, and environments. Currently, the project is made up of three different components: Enlightenment DR16, The Enlightenment Foundation Libraries, and Enlightenment DR17. While we are best known for the Enlightenment Window Manager itself there is a long history of providing advanced libraries and tools to support the window manager and other applications, such as Imlib, FNLib, and Imlib2, which extend far beyond the window manager itself in scope. Today, in development toward the DR17 Desktop Shell we have created an entirely new set of libraries and tools that provide more power and flexibility than any other group of graphical libraries available, which we refer to collectively as The Enlightenment Foundation Libraries.
Enlightenment DR16
The Enlightenment DR16 window manager was released in 2000, along with its dependencies Imlib and Fnlib, and remains in heavy usage today. While rumors of its death still circulate, DR16.6 was release on Nov 2nd, 2003, and it remains in development today with a long life still ahead of it. DR16 has been the choice of power users and artists due to its low overhead, highly graphical, widely theme-able, extremely configurable, yet unobtrusive interface. Nearly all functions of the window manager can be handled without mouse input, including application launching via e16keyedit. It also remains highly portable, with ports avalible for Linux on all platforms, FreeBSD, IRIX, Solaris X86 and Sparc, HP-UX, AIX, OS/2, and more.
Imlib has lived a long life, still in heavy usage today, as one of the most popular image manipulation and rendering libs available. Its development was taken over by the GNOME project and used as GNOMEs rendering engine until it was replaced with GdkPixbuf in GNOME 2.0. It's popularity surpasses just development in C thanks to bindings for several scripting languages including PERL, Python, and Ruby.
Enlightenment Foundation Libraries
In developing DR17 it was made clear that we needed an entirely new set of libraries and tools. Raster had a bold vision of what was possible and where he wanted the next release to go, starting with Imlib2 and EVAS, and eventually growing into new libraries largely based on or around EVAS. It became clear that the usefulness of these libraries and tools went far beyond the DR17 release itself, just as Imlib did in DR16. Thus the collective library back-end of DR17 was given the independent title: the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries, or EFL for short.
The EFL contains solutions for almost any graphical interface task, far beyond just rendering images. EVAS provides a highly optimized canvas library. Ecore provides a simple and modular abstraction interface and advanced event management including timers. Etox provides a complex text layout library complete with theme-able text stylization capabilities (previously Estyle). EDB provides a compact database format for intuitive and easy configuration management, including the storing of binaries. EET provides an integrated and flexible container that ends the traditions of providing themes in tarballs. Edje provides a revolutionary library and tool set for completely abstracting application interfaces from their code, including a complex and flexible method of designing interfaces. EWL provides a complete widget library built on all the other components of the EFL. And more!
Enlightenment DR17
Development Release 17 of the Enlightenment window manager represents an evolution into the next generation of desktop environments: the desktop shell. DR17 will provide integration between files and your environment in a seamless manner while encompassing a graphically rich and flexible architecture. It will not compete with GNOME or KDE, but be a completely new way of visualizing your desktop, based around the EFL which was built from the ground up for this task.
Still in
Okay, so it's been 4 years since the last major release, and yes, I used to love Enlightenment back in the day, but the world has moved on to bigger and better things (KDE, Gnome, OS-X). Enlightenment still has a lot of catching up to do before it is newsworthy!
Stupid question, for which I expect a stupid answer ... having downloaded e16 a while back, and tried it a bit ... how the fuck do I learn to use it?
"It's limited in its support for ICCCM, no NETWM support and it has no iconification, virtual desktops, shading, keybindings or button bindings, but it does WORK (just). it's also fast and beautiful."
If you don't mind, I'll wait until it actually does something other than "work" before I get too excited.
Practically none of the window managers available today properly support some of the most basic features you'd expect them to support. Like say Xlib.
/me is just cranky because WM's screw up my GGI X target code.
Someone had to do it.
It has been around longer than 5 years, and if you had ever used it you'd know it has plenty common features (virtual desktops, for one)
I *believe* e17 was a total rewrite, which is why those features are missing...simply because the rewrite hasn't been completed yet.
There was a time, long ago, when Enlightenment was my WM of choice, and WindowMaker played backup, when I needed things to either be a bit more lightweight, or I was working over the network, or whatever.
Nowadays, I want a lot less visually from a WM--I want it to be as unobtrusive and thin as possible. I put up with Gnome/KDE (depends on what machine I'm working on) because of the nicer and nicer applications being built around them, but I dislike all of that extra overhead--"this app depends on *WHAT*?" This is, of course, my personal taste, and nothing more.
Enlightenment, how I used to long for you. I yearned for another release. I ached to spend long nights interfacing with you... but that was long ago. I've grown up, you've chnaged. We've moved apart. Can it ever really work again between us? Can't we just let the past stay the past, beautiful in what it is, but nothing more?
Call me.
-- That tickles!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
They are recoding it, and due that, they have not added many things.
I've never got why people call enlightenment beautiful. Every time someone has described an enlightenment screenshot as beautiful I've thought it was hideous.
It's like enlightenment's attitude is "Hey, let's put pixmaps everywhere!".
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
Uh.. E17 has always been in CVS. This is not news, people. An official final release of E17 will be news. Until then, quit filling /. with useless fluff.
www.sco.com/redhat
Enlightenment has been a work in progress since 97 or so I'd guess (been a fan ever since the fvwm-xpm days). Seemed like whenever it would start getting good Rasterman would decide to do a complete rewrite. Not that I'm complaining. I think it's cool that he has all these different ideas that he wants to try out. I guess it's more of a hobby/art project than a realworld solution.
I know that in most projects, an incremental dev release is usually no big deal, but with E, any release is big. Being a devoted user for many years, I can only hope the release of this beautiful new codebase will get E back into the ISOs of some of the bigger distro's (hint, hint Patrick).
Erm, I hope you're just saying that because you haven't heard anything in the last several years about the several rewrites and the refocusing of the enlightenment project on producing a set of extensive, massively featured libraries for application development with state of the art graphical capabilities and the ability to build complex applications using their components.
The window manager mentioned here is the very start of the "2 lines of code" (a long runnign in-joke) that builds a window manager out of these libraries. If you want a fully featured window manager, e16 is quite mature already.
I think E is a long way from really being useable.
the fm
Enlightenment has a button you click which restarts the wm. All the user sees is a little spinning clock for a second or two.
those are screenshots of e16.
e17 is still in VERY early stages with basically no features yet. However, due to the libraries used (Enlightenment Foundation Libraries), one can already do things like animate the border theme, have complex, multi-layered backrounds that resize cleanly to ANY resolution, etc. Just wait a few more months for the WM code to get written...
seems that x.org and gnome will do for people a lot of what enlightenment is trying, although I do find their idea of being able to run on top of X/framebuffer/directfb/qtopia to be kind of cool... it'll be interesting to see which of the two.. x.org or enlightenment have the better performance.
For those of you who did not start using Linux back at the time when KDE and Gnome were still very primitive, E was the best WM in term of usability and look. Simple enough to use and beautiful enough to keep the users around.
I have always chosen to use E for all these years as my primary WM, no matter what Gnome and KDE can bring to the tables.
Linux is about the freedom of choices and you as the users have the freedom to use whatever WMs you please. I've been pleased with E and I can't wait to have E 17 officially released to enjoy so many new excellent features. Period.
Wow... mods are just as retarted as you are. Even the old version E16 had the features you are talking about, and it did them damn well also. I would say there are way more options to configure Enlightenment than any other desktop. With a little setup, you can make Enlightenment the best interface you have ever used.
things I would like to see
1) reorginize the configuration menus(a little on the confusing side)
2) have e16 keyconfig and menuconfig come built in
IMO enlightenment is sort of like debian, it goes a little slow, but damn when the thing finally comes out, it is impressive.
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
OK, I posted this without realising that the article said E17 didn't support these features yet. Sorry, I jumped the gun.
E17 has been around for a very long time, but about a year ago they started a total rewrite, so technically, only 1 or 2 years.
And you must understand, what rasterman, etc are trying to do is a hell of a lot more advanced then anything tried before. They for instance are developing their own composite system instead of using Xorg's, and they do a lot of work optimisation wise.
They have also been developing it to be completely dynamic. In retrospect for instance, the windows start bar, the best you can do is theme it, but it will always be the same. Rasterman and the rest of the enlightenment team are making it so that the way things work on the bar are completely dynamic for instance. An example would be when you put your mouse away from the applications button, it moves to the right (bad example, but you get the point).
So, I hate to say it, but I dont think you realise the real benefits. The default theme cannot show off the full power of enlightenment 17, and you can only see it after using it for a while. And btw, I'm sure they'll add virtual desktops, its still an early alpha. virtual desktops dont take many lines of code...
As a programmer, I actually very eagerly await e17, because the foundation libraries and concepts seem pretty amazing, and believe me, all the other window libraries like GTK and QT are mostly static.. In fact, the library seems so cool that I might be changing the application I'm programming to EFL from gtk
... uses Enlightenment.
E17 forever.
nt = no text
..as gorgeous as ever
is...beautiful
Damn, you guys gotta get out more.
She has melted.
This is just priceless. Really...
pot... kettle... black.
If I were still a Linux desktop user, I'd be using E16 without a doubt. Enlightenment always seemed to just offer more than other X11 window managers; even if it was a bit finicky. After E16 development was turned over to new folks and picked up steam again (making it compliant with the freedesktop window hints and such), it was once again the most advanced window manager available.
But I remember building and running E17 from CVS something like two years ago; and I'm pretty sure it was further along then than it is now. I know Raster decided to rewrite everything from the ground up, but c'mon. This is in no way news. Should they ever actually FINISH - then let us know.
#DeleteChrome
Remember this is a complete rewrite. E16 can do all this, but IMO is getting too old, and slow. The Enlightenment team have been mainly working on all the building blocks at this stage, and not too much on the actual window manager. ;-)
With componets like evas which now has a media player built into it is going to be the best window manager out there.
If they have built it the way they were saying, it can be a fairly lean window manager if you build your theme correctly, without the builtin dvd player.
...read it the first time as "IE7 Available From CVS".
Here ya go guys.. I feel sorry for this guy's server
It's limited in its support for ICCCM, no NETWM support and it has no iconification, virtual desktops, shading, keybindings or button bindings, but it does WORK (just). it's also fast and beautiful."
So it's got no support for anything, but it looks pretty and runs fast? Great! Who would've thought that dropping functionality would speed things up?
I haven't used Enlightenment since the days of the Pentium II, but the one thing I remember most about it was that you could choose fast or pretty. I'll stay skeptical about that "and" for now.
ksh = korn shell (openbsd's /bin/sh), not some kde thing... ;)
Raster did a short demo movie of the DR 17 wm showing the current iconbar and runtime module handling, here is a mirror www.atmos.org/tmp/e17_movie-00.avi
I'm still running on vtwm. I just checked the source and it's the one from 1993. Happy 11th birthday!
:-)
I tried KDE and Gnome recently. All junk. Sorry! Total waste of time and space. Better luck next time.
Enlightenment is hideous and amateurish looking. That's just my opinion. To each his own.
There's a lot of stuff being said here about enlightenment, and people need to really understand was Raster is trying to do with E17.
First of all I use E16.7.1 as my WM of choice. I've been using E since I first found it several years ago.
A lot of people don't understand that, why would I use E when there's Gnome or KDE? Well, personally I can't understand why people use Gnome or KDE when there's E, but that's just personal preference.
I'm one of those people who like minimal functionality, uber-flexibility, combined with easy of use, and demands aesthetics above all. E is for me, but I can see why it's not for everyone.
People are scoffing at the poster who said E17 is beautiful and fast by suggesting that without functionality of course it's going to be fast.
Some people are laughing at Enlightenment for being around for 5 years and still not having virtual desktops, pagers, etc.
E16.7.1, the latest stable release, has everything you could ever want from a WM. It has THE greatest pager ever. It even updates the mini window images in real time! The virtual desktop support is second to none. You can even have different layers of virtual screen accessed by using the scroll wheel on the desktop.
E also has the best Xinerama support I've ever seen in a WM, for those of you who are into dual monitors like me.
Now let me address some of things people have been saying about E17. Apparently the poster forgot that this is slashdot and most of the posts will come from people who have never actually used Enlightenment, or who don't know anything about it.
Like many others have said, E17 is a complete re-write, and it's not anywhere near finished. The post is simply an acknowledgment that the window manager code for E17 has finally been put back into the CVS repo. So if you're wondering why it has such limited functionality, it's because it hasn't even been available to be worked on by anyone other than Raster yet!
Some people said that this is not news because it has always been in the repo. Not true. It was in the repo a while back before major rewrites to the foundation libraries, but it got taken out because the changes were too great. Raster had to start again on the WM code.
And finally... why should we care about E17? It is going to be cool... seriously cool. Raster and his team are excellent coders. The reason why it's taking so long is because they're doing it right this time.
The supporting libraries have an OpenGL rendering back-end. Think about that. A WM finally rendered in OpenGL. And think about the possibilities it will bring.
E17 will be worth waiting for. It will be feature-packed. It will be beautiful. And it will be fast.
From the FAQ
It means that DR17 will combine features of a window manager and a file manager. It will provide nicely integrated GUI elements for managing your desktop elements, both files and windows. It does *not* mean that DR17 will be another application framework like Gnome and KDE.
I'm not very familiar with E, so feel to correct me, but this sounds a heck of a lot like the function of the Finder in MacOS (both X and classic) and explorer.exe in Win9x.
I'm not saying that this is a BAD thing, but it's hardly original. Needless to say, I think this will be a good thing overall for Linux if we're to actually get a good desktop. It's been established that the KDE/Gnome metaphor doesn't work at all and that the file manager and window manager need to be intergrated (as shown by the OS X Dock-like thing in the E17 screenshots)
Now, of course, you do have the problem of an application framework. It REALLY should be intergrated into the WM / File Manager (FM). As said already, monolithic models like KDE and Gnome just don't work. They're bloated, ugly, and force developers to commit to one platform.
E17 seems to be a step in the right direction but not quite enough. First off, this stuff is pretty basic and should probably be intergrated right into X11. Secondly, we need some sort of UI toolkit which could theoretically have more than one implementation (in the same way that there are several implementations of the X protocol).
XUL could be the answer to all this. It's a cross-platform UI language. If someone wanted to make their own XUL implementation, they'd be free to do so and the K/Gnome folks could finally get along.
So in short -- keep the current 'layering' model that we've got going on with the unix desktop metaphor, but make it so that different implementations of these layers don't break compatibility.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
What's priceless is imagining what 'retarted' _should_ mean. I pictured an elderly British whore who got a makeover. ;)
A sniglet if I ever saw one.
Lump lingered last in line for brains, and the ones she got were sorta rotten and insane.
For anyone wondering what Rasterman has been up to lately (aside from Enlightenment), I sat down with Rasterman last month and have posted my interview here. Rasterman has some interesting thoughtson the Asian market, embedded platforms, and how they will interact with network middleware.
Oh, and he can drink like a fish-- Enjoy!
davejenkins.com |
I run XFCE (on Arch on my PC and on Debian sarge on my laptop for the time being) and only have a few problems with it. Everything else is perfect, but...
First and foremost, the file manager sucks. It's exceedingly slow, difficult to navigate, and easy to click into things like "SMB Network" by mistake. The top-level hierarchy is also heterogeneous - "Book" (wtf?), home directory, "SMB Network", "Applications", "Find", "Trash", and "Fstab". But mainly it's slow as hell.
Next up, I'd love for the main launcher bar thingy leaves a little to be desired, as does the task bar. Also, the only really good configuration I've found is to have them at opposite ends of the screen, which is annoying. A system more like the MacOS X dock would be nice - application launchers that tell you when the application is already open and give you a small control menu for it.
Fixing the previous issue gets rid of the entire taskbar except for the small system tray area. Making this into a launcher bar applet would solve that problem and get rid of the taskbar entirely.
That's all I can think of right now. There are other issues that preclude me from declaring Linux "ready for the desktop" (even though I use it as such 80% or more of the time and for 95% or better of my serious work), such as Firefox launch time, Thunderbird new mail notification while iconified, and communication between those two; but those are all basically unrelated to Xfce4.
These screenshots, if you could see them, do not represent e17 in its current form last I checked (a day or two ago). They reflect, at best, legacy e17. The new e17 does not in any way resemble those teaser e17 screenshots we were seeing 2+ years ago or so. There are quite a few enthusiasts out there hosting videos and pictures, but out of respect for them and their home servers, I'll not link to any of their sites. Those who are desperate enough to seek out the real thing will hopefully find images and sources without bogging down those who've donated their bandwidth.
Anyway, the real treat in e17 isn't what is apparent in the wm cvs... as the team has emphasized time and again, the beauty right now is in the EFL (the enlightenment foundation LIBRARIES) and the beautiful potential they hold for applications, including the upcoming desktop environment. e17 is pretty (i have it "running" on my gentoo box), but completely impractical for use now...the current e17-based apps are also beautiful and impressively useful and stable for me (including elicit, entice, engage, entrance, evidence, and a host of other great apps!). It's exciting to see the beginnings of e17 in cvs, indeed, but I expect a lot of changes and a good deal of time before the next e17 even makes it to beta-level.
[ you and I are ugly ]
maybe it's the trackball I use... I don't know. It's great with trackballs (good ones).
.enlightenment, vim user_apps.menu - add those favorite programs you use all the time to your menu
Mine (16.6 right now) is set up 3x3x3 - 9 virtual desktops, times 3 multiple desktops (each with a different background). It's a 3x3x3 cube.
alt-shift combined with right,left,up,down arrows moves you around the virtual desktops (same background, the virtual desktops also wrap around)
ctrl-alt combined with left and right arrows takes you from one multiple desktop to another (different backgrounds, no wrapping)
you kind of have to remember where you are, and right click on the top bar helps you if you get lost.
cd
you can have any menus you want, name them what you want - then link from one to another - the syntax is very easy to pick up - not unlike building a website or something.
I made the first item in the main menu my personalized xterm, so anytime I click the double-click key on my fancy trackball anywhere on the background and an xterm pops up. Then I can dict, or calc, or anything I need. (First click opens up the main menu, second click clicks the first item)
I don't know what more you could want - the only problems I tend to run into is if something is "built for" Gnome or KDE, for instance just the other day - the Straw RSS aggregator - you need to "set" a browser preference to follow the RSS links (like to this story, for instance) - but you need to set the browser preference in Gnome, not Straw. Duh. I found the "sage" RSS aggregator plugin for Firefox and I'm happy as a clam. Place your live RSS links into the "Sage Feeds" bookmark folder in Firefox. Not bad at all.
Enlightenment has done everything, and more - that I have needed. I also like being able to have very nice pictures in the background - I love really nice nature photography, or other relaxing photography when working on a stressful project - it helps.
I start up wmclockmon every time I turn on or reboot the PC, which is not that often - put it in the lower corner, make it sticky and borderless, turn on its "light" and there's my date and time.
So far, anyway, I haven't needed anything badly enough that any other window manager or desktop environment offers to convince me to switch away from the things that I really like about E. Multiple desktops allow you to do several different things at once, keep things seperate, and spread those seperate things out if they too complicated using the virtual desktops within each multiple desktop. And talk about overkill, You can have up to 8x8 virtual desktops - 64 virtual desktops for each multiple desktop - so that's 64 TIMES 32 for each of the possible multiple desktops. That's 2,048 desktops. I use 3x3x3, or 27 and I haven't yet filled them up completely even when working on several complicated projects at the same time.
I love E. That being said, I probably wouldn't use E17 for a while as anything regular - I am apprehensive, because I like E16 so much. Maybe I am alone, maybe it's the way I work, maybe it's the trackball/ergonomic keyboard/setup I have, but E is just -- I don't know - I haven't found anything better, and I have tried lots of things - blackbox, fluxbox, XFCE, Gnome, KDE, sawfish, FVWM, CDE -- nothing - nothing has even come close, in my opinion.
This news is much more a milestone in the development of the e17 WM... During the last year the EFL was the part developed, a wonderful set of library to do many things(did I mention many?), in the scope of building a WM based on them. The code "that just work" that raster talks about is only the base of the window manager based on the EFL, most features are still to implement but nonetheless this represent a step in the E development... Stay Tuned
At least they announced an E release. They announced an afterstep 2.0 beta1 release last year, but nobody bothered when 2.0 final was released (Sept. 28) It's a shame too, Sasha has done some excellent work on afterimage... I'm sure I'd have used it by now if he just documented it (hint...)
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
"Here ya go guys.. I feel sorry for this guy's server"
That's like saying "I feel sorry for this guy's girlfriend", then giving her number to every guy around.
E other than the runing unix joke of being a more nerdvanic OS and theirfor this is the next step to jokes. It is stinky.
LEARNING & UNDERSTANDING WHEN YHBT
slashbots apparently don't get it: it's called a TROLL because you have been trolled [as in trolling the line on a fishing rod in order to attract more fish].
IN OTHER WORDS:
1. grandparent posted something that was very clearly intended to get the pro-linux slashbots upset
2. jackasses like yourself respond with long, thought-out responses because you [and said jackasses] assumed the grandparent was serious
3. see point #2 for the reason that your inability to pick up on subtle humor is very likely responsible for your lack of social graces. if you have trouble interpreting emotional cues, you may well be autistic. get that checked out, friend
I thought the news about E17 was out on April Fools day!
Subtle, perhaps. Humor? No. Sorry. GGparent just wasn't funny. I understand, though, that "subtle pointlessness" doesn't have the same ring to it.
You might try learning how logic works in a debate context, too.
Nice try, though. Thanks for playing. HAND. Good luck next life. Come back when you grow up.
I always thought of it as...
A Troll tries to get your goat...
but maybe thats just me...
--
Maybe it's just that I've been called in to work late on a Sunday night, that I'm tired, or maybe this is a trend of posting non-news on Slashdot.
Why is this "news" posted on slashdot? Sure, I know this is a big software re-write effort on a pretty major window/desktop system (which I used to use once upon a time, and it was very nice). But when new software is available, doesn't that belong on Freshmeat instead of a site that's about "news for nerds, stuff that matters"? Freshmeat is even part of the same group that runs Slashdot!
E17 is cool, and it's great that it's now available from CVS, but it's not "stuff that matters".
I take it that you aren't an Enlightenment fan, then?
Ce n'est pas un vrai mouvement de robot!
way over ornamented? -- try a new theme. Wasteful of desktop real estate -- that's about the last charge I'd consider e guilty of. I'm a desktop real-estate nutcase, which is why i cannot stand using gnome, kde, or windows. distracting -- again, try a new theme. Take a look at the e16 default theme "winter" and tell me that it's distracting...hardly. My current e16 theme is nothing more than small text on thin black backrgounds with white text... it looks almost like a fluxbox interface (if it weren't for my pagers and engage). non-user-centric -- I don't know what you mean by this, but it's exactly what I want in a window manager...which to me seems mighty user-centric.
[ you and I are ugly ]
I can't wait for the Win32 port! ;)
"Yeah, well, Dracula called and he's coming over tonight for you and I said okay."
Isn't that some crappy boy band from a few years back?
Enlightenment also has a file manager application called Evidence. Strong on metadata support, and with cool themes, evidence is specifically written to handle large or deeply nested directories. Have a look at the Pretty pictures.
Have any of you asked why this has been done?
E17 is the most beautiful desktop I've ever used. It just works and it's so stunningly beautiful! It's gfx engine is the fastest on this planet and everything works smoothly!
E17 is for us artists! Thank You Rasterman!
Why is it that most people seem to be either totally devoted followers of Enlightement who will jump at you if you ever dare question that Enlightenment is the one and only window manager and the answer to all questions ever asked, or the exact opposite - people who hate Enlightenment with a passion and would like to see it and its developers rot in hell forever?
I mean... it's a window manager, just like many others, and it's not radically different, either (or at least not more radically different than others, like blackbox etc). What is it about Enlightenment that people get so worked up about?
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
This can't be happening yet, unless Duke Nuke'm Forever is going to be out soon!
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
I realise that E17 is still a WIP, but...
Did anyone else see those screenshots and think "OMG! It's Kai Krause! Run for the hills!"?
As one artist once commented to me, you can envisage Spock with some alien's computer saying: "I'm sorry, Captain. I cannot work out how to use this. The interface appears to have been designed by Kai Krause."
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
I did some benchmarks and was surprised to see that E17's GFX engine beats Apple's OS-X hands down. With NVidia drivers it's about 60% faster than OS-X. I believe Rasterman has coded the fastest graphics libraries ever!
What improvements does vtwm have over twm? Is it worth the upgrade?
"Shiny things distract simple minds", guess what this makes you. I have never found it distracting.
I guess that it is a very good thing when the Open Source community is more interested in making sure that the software that they are developing is fast , clean , and secure than being overly laden with features. But still we do need to push forward and keeping this careful balance between stability and features is a hard thing indeed.
Really awesome. Perhaps this could be added to Firefox, especially for browsing local folders. If it's targetting IE as competition, perhaps it should also include such capabilities. It pioneered tabs as a way to revolutionize browsing, and it would be useful (to me at least) if it included this functionality.
If not, Nautilus and Konqueror could also benefit from this ability. It would help cut down on time. Drag a file onto a tab, you can paste/move/extract to that folder. Click back on a tab, move a directory higher up into the tree, maybe you're organizing your MP3 collection and you need to recategorize a few songs or whatever.
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind
No, it doesn't.
Windows will NEVER be as fast as a properly configured Linux machine, nor will it ever be as stable.
As for it not being ready for general distribution in 15 years, HA! It will never be ready for the general public, they're morons. I don't think I need to prove this one considering the content of your post.
If you're talking about alpha channels as an alternative to E17, you obviously have no idea what's went into this new version.
I know this might seem like Flamebait, but...
Hey I started using Linux before there was a KDE or GNOME, and I've never really liked E. It has always been max on eye candy and min on usefulness.
I use KDE now, mostly because I think its set of apps are more integrated than GNOME. IMHO one the things that makes GNOME not so good is the fact that you can have the same settings in different places which makes a bit confusing. For example "Do you set the background picture in GNOME itself or in your chosen window manager?" because it can be set in both places. KDE just keeps it simple. I've used Window Maker a bit when I had a low spec machine (like a P1 or P2) and I wanted speed, but with my new machine (P4 with hyper theading) KDE flies along. KOffice is just a better integrated app than the apps which make up GNOME office. I use Open Office as well but that still hasn't shed its own (IMHO crappy) look and feel no mater what they say!
If I was making a hacker movie I might have them using E just because it looks different/cool, but I don't think it is a serious contender yet! I am prepared to keep an open mind!
-Jasa -- Linux - The SOURCE will be with you, ALWAYS
openbox, with pypanel and gkrellm works well for me. It's fast, pretty, configurable and robust. I prefer to start from a minimal WM and add just what I need to the menus rather than start with a load of stuff I don't. YMMV.
$ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
I remember when I longed for running E but alas I was still and am still tied to Windows at work. I have since grown up and bought a Mac. The Mac uses transparency correctly, IMHO. I have never ever seen the point of using a transparent terminal except for possibly using it for running tail on soem logs and such. Othere then that, it's an annoyance. It makes the text hard to read and I really don't like it.
Gorkman
Linux is not the linux of old. You got a lot of people who grew up with windows only for whom the whole idea of configuration files is alien. Now that isn't much of a problem. Some distros have come a long way into making a linux install extremely easy. But any new desktop user soon wants to chance the look and goes searching on the internet for pretty desktops. E has some very very pretty ones. Then they try it and hit the learning curve. It ain't a wall. It is a ceiling. Breaking through it is hard if you come from a windows gui for everything background. The reward is full control but the price is RTFM.
Add to it that most E users don't want or need things like a start button. Its far more extreme use of virtual desktops. Themes wich look cool in screenshot but perhaps grey on black text in real life is hard to read.
This then soon scares people off who are scared and humiliated that they could not use it. This is the "sucks" era. If you can't use something it must suck, it is never your fault.
So now you got two camps. Those that managed to break through the learning curve and those who didn't (of course you also got a camp who could care less either way but they are boring) and the perfect setup for a holy war.
On the one hand you got those who miss their GUI theme configurations and start button on the bottom left corner. On the other hand you got people who enjoy a window manager that just draws the bloody windows as they want it without turning into the bloat that is KDE or the "you can't do this because it would be confusing" that is Gnome.
Welcome to Linux where people got choice. The price for freedom might be eternal vigilance but the price for choice is eternal holy wars. Choice is all very well but unless you choose what I choose you are the sucks.
The difference about E17 is not just the desktop layout, it is how things are drawn. ALL windows managers use the similar model at the moment wether it is MS windows or Apple or any of the linux ones. If Rasterman realizes his vision then E17 could be one of the most important steps forward in desktops (as he has already used it on his Zaurus. Yeah that is right. E17 on a pda. Try that MS.) Remember that most enlightenment haters are probably using it already. The libraries developed for E have found widespread use. Just check for something like imlib2 on your average linux desktop.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
... but I guess it makes you feel l33t to laugh at it.
Finally something visable as E17!... only took my entire college and university education to do it :)
GNOME comes with Metacity that has no "set background" option, its only in the menu. Aside from that the same thing configurable from different locations and different ways isn't a bad thing providing its sane, take copying a file (drag + drop or copy + paste).
:-)
Most KDE people complain that GNOME has no options for everything, your just that little bit different
What you demand is your business, E is for people who demand different things. Oh and you are probably already using E. Just check for any of its libraries on your linux machine. That is the real value of E. It has given the rest of linux an awfull lot of tools to work with.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
E gives you the flexibilty, you can abuse it and create some pretty ugly/unworkable themes or you can make a very refined one. They do exist.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
According to the screenshots on the site, e.g. , it's called "Enliahtenment".
At least it says so all over the "settinas" windows, above the "Aoolv"-buttons.
E17 has the fastest graphics routines you've ever seen anywhere. Frankly - I'm amazed!
Virtual desktops. M4-macros in config files.
Linux is not Windows
You guys are laughable. You're always crying about how Mac OS X is all eye candy and whatnot. Then, out comes E17, and you end up slobbering all over yourselves. I'll stick with OS X. It's the best "window manager" going. Its elegant and fluid. In my experience, E's performance can best be describe as "clunky". And, that's on a good day.
"Rasterman is trying some things that might finally get Hollywood to use a real desktop in the movies."
What do you mean? Like trying to get FinalCut Pro to run on it!
Karma Schmarma
Sun Nov 28 - benr - DR17 now in CVS!!!
Enlightenment DR17 has been added into the primary CVS tree. No, hell hasn't frozen over and last we looked pigs weren't flying although this might signal Duke Nukem Forever sometime before Christmas. Feel free to grab it and muttle around. It's limited in its support for ICCCM, no NETWM support and it has no iconification, virtual desktops, shading, keybindings or button bindings, but it does work. Patches are welcome, contributions are welcome, but bug reports should be ignored... this is CVS code afterall.
If you haven't followed Enlightenment in a while, you'll need to catch up on the EFL first. The EFL is the foundation (get it?) of the DR17 window manager. Information on CVS and the build order can be found here.
Learn more about Enlightenment DR17 on its project page.
I, for one, am never going to install mono/.NET on my system. I don't even have JVM.
C/C++ source, perl/python/PHP/ruby and bash scripts are the only things that will ever run here.
If you want bytecode you might as well do it in perl/python from the beginning. So, nope. GTK# ain't going to save the day because there will be big groups of users who will be unable to run it, and therefore it will be a not-portable toolkit.
Well what can I say, it's a work in progress for sure, though it looks like a solid foundation, even a bunch of idiots could build a decent desktop ontop of something this good :)
IMO enlightenment is sort of like debian, it goes a little slow, but damn when the thing finally comes out, it is impressive.
;)
Hey, that reminds me about what Longhorn ought to become
Not to be mean or anything, but firstly these names don't tell the purpose of the application. Secondly they sound like marketing Bull$hit from Intel/Microsoft/Name-Your-Evil-Company, not an open source project.
woah... i read that and immediately thought... "I can run down to my local drugstore and pick up a copy? woah!"
shows how stupid i am... needless to say, i'm NOT a developer!
Let your artist/themer/skinner friends know about E. Make them drop whatever they're skinnin and fire up their grafix tools for this. We will need themes themes and more themes. And people will point and ask, there's an x86 under all that? Running what again?
With this revolutionary desktop, all Linux users will be able to get deep, deep down (so rest upon my chest).
People seem to be confused about the "OpenGL rendering" going on in things like OS X. It's not actually rendering polygons, it's just using the video card as a really fast 2D blitter. This is different from, say, what Longhorn is planned to be, where it's actually pushing polys onto the screen to draw 3D window surfaces.
gentoo is only bloated if you make it bloated. if you set your USE flags conservatively, you'll install nothing but the absolute minimum required to run a system...hell, it wont even install cron unless you do it yourself.
[ you and I are ugly ]
I've been using Linux since before KDE and before Gnome. I've also been wondering when E is gonna get some documentation or some level of usability down since before KDE and Gnome. It's been in unstable states of development for as long as I can remember. Personally, I always felt that Windowmaker was the best in terms of usability and appearence. Then again, I don't like to waste half of my display on crazy robot-arm window frames, and I think I've got some irritation towards E that's come from the utterly undocumented esd. I also don't care if menus use shaped windows or rectangles... Perhaps if I hung out on IRC more often, I'd like E. But I don't, and I don't.
That said, it's great that Raster hasn't given up on the stupid dead project after all these years of still not quite getting things right. Maybe one day he'll surprise me and finish it. I doubt it, though. Others are free to use it, of course, but there's no place for E in my computer use - professionaly or personally. I'll stick to fake-transparent aterm/wterm and rectangular menus in a lightweight package, thanks.
Agreed, but the Firefox codebase is very extensible. It already covers actions on local files, allows you to program applications in XUL markup (such as the Calendar that you can download from Mozilla themselves), this could simply be one of those applications.
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind
But many more people could benefit from this idea if it were part of Firefox, or some other cross-platform application. It doesn't have to be Firefox, that just sprung to mind because it also brought tabs to the masses, even if Opera already supported this.
.sig: Open Source, Open Mind
I would never use a WM/DE with the name of an insipid (and thankfully defunct) boy band on principle...
I've been running KDE and like it -- but have considered running Xfce if it might preform better. Have you run both desktops and might you be able to fill in more blanks?
How is grep more ridiculous than XP's animated dog?
whatevere.
the day you contribute to opensource - let me know. put up or shut up.
--------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------------
What you probably mean is you want a gui
Not at all. vi is not, in any way, a config system. It lacks any kind of consistent data representation across applications. How, for example, do you interpret a config file with high-bits? Is it ISO-Latin-1? Is it UTF-8? Is it Big5? vi is just an editor, and has no way of being sure of the answer to that. Only cross-application standards (which is about 30% of what a desktop environment is for) can solve this problem.
Now E might be a fine window manager for your average desktop environment (assuming we front-end its configuration with something more standard in that DE), but it's just a window manager with delusions of grandeur.
I see you didn't check out my web page (it's linked from the page that's atop each one of my posts). I've written several small pieces of software, and it's all available to the public. Lots of it's out of date by now, replaced by more modern and functional stuff (esp. the LDAP integration stuff), but it's all open source. I've only got the one project up on freshmeat, and again, it's pretty simple and somewhat outdated - but I know that several people use it none the less. The stuff I develop for my employer is intended to be open sourced, but I haven't gotten around to getting it online. Similarly, lots of my most current stuff's not up yet, just because I'm bad about keeping my website up to date.
:) Kudos for sticking with it.
Anyway, I've been contributing to open source darn near as long as you have, though my stuff's considerably less popular than E. Perhaps I was a bit harsh calling E a "stupid, dead project", but then again, most of my crap's stupid, dead, and perpetually unfinished too.