Slashdot Mirror

Read a Description of Helix DRM before you pull out your debugger(s) and download the Helix server software. Feel free to let us know if you find any bounds that aren't checked or opportunities to send Real some malformed packets.

• Ogg Theora + SMIL 2.0 support. Sure, there are other players out there that support Ogg Theora, and support SMIL 2.0, but I'm not aware of any that support both.
• Highly modular architecture that scales down to fit on cell phones and other portable devices. We post numbers for the Symbian build, but the Linux numbers aren't far off.
• Array of industry partnerships. Why does this matter? Because we're getting more commerical licensees all of the time, and even for commercial licensees, we're making sure that the work that they do gets contributed back into the codebase, even if they are a commercial licensee (see section 2.2) and are otherwise terrified of this whole open source thang.
• Platform support - we support Win32, MacOS, Linux, Symbian very well, and a range of other operating systems to the point that those third parties can make it work on their platforms.
• A stable company with lots of money in the bank and growing revenues. Our last earnings announcement has more on this.

Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager
RealNetworks

• Ogg Theora + SMIL 2.0 support. Sure, there are other players out there that support Ogg Theora, and support SMIL 2.0, but I'm not aware of any that support both.
• Highly modular architecture that scales down to fit on cell phones and other portable devices. We post numbers for the Symbian build, but the Linux numbers aren't far off.
• Array of industry partnerships. Why does this matter? Because we're getting more commerical licensees all of the time, and even for commercial licensees, we're making sure that the work that they do gets contributed back into the codebase, even if they are a commercial licensee (see section 2.2) and are otherwise terrified of this whole open source thang.
• Platform support - we support Win32, MacOS, Linux, Symbian very well, and a range of other operating systems to the point that those third parties can make it work on their platforms.
• A stable company with lots of money in the bank and growing revenues. Our last earnings announcement has more on this.

Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager
RealNetworks

• Ogg Theora + SMIL 2.0 support. Sure, there are other players out there that support Ogg Theora, and support SMIL 2.0, but I'm not aware of any that support both.
• Highly modular architecture that scales down to fit on cell phones and other portable devices. We post numbers for the Symbian build, but the Linux numbers aren't far off.
• Array of industry partnerships. Why does this matter? Because we're getting more commerical licensees all of the time, and even for commercial licensees, we're making sure that the work that they do gets contributed back into the codebase, even if they are a commercial licensee (see section 2.2) and are otherwise terrified of this whole open source thang.
• Platform support - we support Win32, MacOS, Linux, Symbian very well, and a range of other operating systems to the point that those third parties can make it work on their platforms.
• A stable company with lots of money in the bank and growing revenues. Our last earnings announcement has more on this.

Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager
RealNetworks

Moreover, we license the codecs for a reason. We do it to make our media framework and products more useful and enticing. So, while I'm sure everyone would love it if we opened these up to everyone else's framework, I would hope that people think it through enough not to expect it.

As far as answering what else is enticing about our framework, I'll address that in another post.

Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager
RealNetworks

That said, as a publicly traded company, we've gotta make money, so you are essentially correct. Our revenue comes mainly from subscriptions these days, with really great growth around our RealRhapsody service. Last quarter, business products and services was $13.9 million out of $60.4 million in total revenue, so the traditional customers that you are thinking of make up a smaller part of our business than many realize.

That said, we've done our part to listen to those customers, and we think our product is much better today.

Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager
RealNetworks

That said, as a publicly traded company, we've gotta make money, so you are essentially correct. Our revenue comes mainly from subscriptions these days, with really great growth around our RealRhapsody service. Last quarter, business products and services was $13.9 million out of $60.4 million in total revenue, so the traditional customers that you are thinking of make up a smaller part of our business than many realize.

That said, we've done our part to listen to those customers, and we think our product is much better today.

Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager
RealNetworks

The source code + binary add-ons for the RealPlayer 10 alpha for Linux are available from our CVS repository, and will be available soon as a tarball.

Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager
RealNetworks

We appreciate you pointing out the fix to the problem. However, contrary to popular belief, just because we're a "big" company, we don't have infinite army of developers to apply to this, and one of the things that drives us crazy about Linux right now is the practically infinite combination of compilers, libraries, and so on that all tend to break backwards compatibility on a frequent basis. With respect to company size, I say "big" because in the grand scheme of things, IBM, Sun, Microsoft and Cisco are big companies. We, on the other hand, are not (under 1000 employees).

As far as "make install" goes, we're not using automake, so we don't have that system. We've got our own build system that we've been using since 1996 (well before open sourcing). Though it's not what folks are used to, it is open source as well, and it's very powerful in its own right. It's written in Python, and it's religiously cross platform, capable of generating GNU make make files, as well as Visual C++ nmake files, CodeWarrior build files, etc.

Rob Lanphier
Development Support Manager
RealNetworks

Moreover, the Helix DNA Producer (also open source) has the sort of pipelining functionality you are talking about.

Rob Lanphier
Developer Support Manager
RealNetworks

iirc, this is what the Real Helix DRM stuff does.

Link to Real Helix DRM brochure

Glaser used to work for MS, before he left to form "Progressive Networks" (it's on p2). I thought it interesting that either his politics changed, or he needed to not alienate investors, thus the change of name to "Real Networks".

Of course, he must have burnt a few bridges during the anti-trust trial... but these people are businessmen, if there's money to be made by kissing and making up then they'll do it (vide McNealy and Ballmer).

For those that do not wish to have all the advertising that comes with RealPlayer, Real does offer an alternative player. It is their RealPlayer Enterprise. It is supposed to be for workplace environment and as such comes without the advertising. http://www.realnetworks.com/products/rpe/index.htm l

Regarding spyware, that story is so old it doesn't make any sense nowadays. Also Real Player for Linux doesn't show any ads...

Requiring a proprietary protocol would work only for streaming of dynamically encoded data, such as live streaming. The server software for delayed streaming is already free and Free: just create a .ram file (similar to Shoutcast's .m3u file) giving the HTTP URL of the stream. Do you think Real could make enough money off selling licenses for encoders and live streaming servers to fund development of the player? The other players in this market can afford to finance player development from operating system revenue.

Requiring a proprietary protocol would work only for streaming of dynamically encoded data, such as live streaming. The server software for delayed streaming is already free and Free: just create a .ram file (similar to Shoutcast's .m3u file) giving the HTTP URL of the stream. Do you think Real could make enough money off selling licenses for encoders and live streaming servers to fund development of the player? The other players in this market can afford to finance player development from operating system revenue.

Rob Lanphier
Developer Support Manager
RealNetworks

Just a little Seattle thing. The Times seems to like sticking in good words about local companies.

Microsoft is a champion of DRM (under various names) to control and monitor users. So I would not put it past them to do what Amnesty International suspect them of doing.

DRM is just a tool. It's actually a tool to protect rights -- copyright. Is the right to own property not a human right? By your twisted reasoning the following groups are to be suspected of human rights violations due to their support of DRM.

• Microsoft
• Open Source Project Athena
• Apple Computer
• Open Source Project Media-S for Ogg
• RealNetworks
• Sony

DRM is all about producer control using private keys that you, the user, has no access to. Contrast this to Cryptography where strong cryptography can be used to ensure your privacy and that you are in control.

Please explain how DRM would actually be used to violate human rights. It's designed to allow distrubution of material to large groups. Cryptograhy is designed to keep secrets among a very small group -- just the tool that that the bad people actually need.

The other part of this requires thought on your part and reading between the lines. Granted, Realnetworks DOES do their best to convince you to buy the the player, but they cite in their letter people who accidentally paid money for something they knew should be free.

This should indicate to you we are not dealing with someone savvy enough to ask for a non-microsoft alternative, especially when the non-microsoft alternative requires them to download a seperate product to avoid using the exact same microsoft product to beginning with. Keep in mind this is computer user who has already failed the "giving credit card number will result in charges" test for RealNetworks.


FYI -- See how long it takes YOU to find the free player. While I see the problem* it only takes reading the webpage for someone to figure it out. As a school teacher, I can unfortunately tell you that reading is one of the biggest problems we have in our society today.


*Problem: On the first page you click a link to go the player section, on the second page you click "Download Player" graphic button to continue, on third page the two graphic buttons are for paid player, while the free player is on the right side with a text link again.

One defense I will offer for our hardline business folks is that they've figured out how to keep the lights on. The fact of the matter is, we just announced that consumer revenue was 76% of our 2003q4 revenue, up from 70% the previous quarter. "Consumer revenue" is made up of subscriptions to our premium business, as opposed to systems revenue selling media servers. People assume that our business is still about media servers. So, they do get a little zealous about keeping the subscription business growing.

The thing that can't be repeated enough is that RealAudio is a supported format on Linux. Now, Linux users are forced to use jury-rigged solutions to listen to Car Talk. Very sad.

Rob Lanphier
Helix Troublemaker
RealNetworks

I'm not going to be an apologist for RealNetworks past actions. RealNetworks is a big enough company, that Jamie Zawinski's quote "[G]reat things are accomplished by small groups of people who are driven, who have unity of purpose. The more people involved, the slower and stupider their union is." I'll admit we've done slow and stupid things. However, there are certain things that can only be done by big companies, no matter how slow and stupid, which is why I haven't written a similar rant.

However, I'd like to point out that, in the "slow and stupid" vein, we're slowly getting better. The RealPlayer 10 beta isn't perfect, but it's better, and I imagine that things will be better in the final release.

Moreover, we've got a lot of really great things going on in the Helix Community. We've got the Helix Player for Linux, which just the won Best Open Source Project award at LinuxWorld. That means that if there's something that annoys you about it, you can fix it. It's based on Gtk, and the engine code is all cross-platform, so someone could theoretically port it to Windows even.

So, we're trying. I'm hoping that folks could cut us a little slack. I'm hoping that the Linux folks out there could help us change Car Talk's mind, since Windows Media is a pretty Linux-hostile format.

Thanks
Rob Lanphier
Helix Troublemaker
RealNetworks

I'd also add that the news page talks a lot about how helix is being used by our partners. Worth a read! https://www.helixcommunity.org/

To name the top few, in order of appearance:

• RealPlayer on the Nokia 6620
• Time Warner Cable using helix to support the Road Runner high-speed data service
• Integration with IBM WebSphere

I'd also add that the news page talks a lot about how helix is being used by our partners. Worth a read! https://www.helixcommunity.org/

To name the top few, in order of appearance:

• RealPlayer on the Nokia 6620
• Time Warner Cable using helix to support the Road Runner high-speed data service
• Integration with IBM WebSphere

The Basic Server is a teaser, limited to 1 mbps and expiring after 1 year.

Simple, RealPlayer may be free but RealServer is expensive.

Sorry, but I forgot to add that you can various basic (nicely featured) editions of their software for free, at the following link:

http://www.realnetworks.com/products/free_trial.ht ml?src=010604realhome_1_2_2_1_1_1

Sunny Dubey

That works on linux, developed in the helix community.

Boy, works on linux is the catch, isn't it?

The helixplayer open source project has a Milestone build, which you can no longer download, as it's pretty old. They have a nightly builds page, though.

I tried the latest Developer Release (DR5). First I tried playing some Real 10 Video. First I tried the Paycheck trailier. The command line client failed with an X error. The GUI client said (here it comes) "Buffering", then hung at different percentages, and crashed for all the other videos on that page. When I say hung, I don't mean stuck waiting for network; the GUI refused to update any further.

helixplay refused to play an mpeg (it didn't crash or anything... it just wouldn't do anything when you click "Play"). splay crashed on an mpeg. Both did play new codeced audio streams and mp3s, though. splay managed to play an older RealVideo stream (in this case NASA TV), but helixplay hung as usual.

Then I tried the latest nightly build (20040107). That one performed exactly the same.

There is another project that provides a plugin to realplayer 8 for playing real 10 content under linux, but finding those files is as hard as finding files on the real.com site. The "binaries" link takes me to a license agreement, but accepting that only led to an error page. Clicking binaries again, and agreeing again takes me to a blank page.

So, can you play Real 10 content in Linux? If you were trying really hard to be optimistic, you could say "not yet", I suppose.

That works on linux, developed in the helix community.

Boy, works on linux is the catch, isn't it?

The helixplayer open source project has a Milestone build, which you can no longer download, as it's pretty old. They have a nightly builds page, though.

I tried the latest Developer Release (DR5). First I tried playing some Real 10 Video. First I tried the Paycheck trailier. The command line client failed with an X error. The GUI client said (here it comes) "Buffering", then hung at different percentages, and crashed for all the other videos on that page. When I say hung, I don't mean stuck waiting for network; the GUI refused to update any further.

helixplay refused to play an mpeg (it didn't crash or anything... it just wouldn't do anything when you click "Play"). splay crashed on an mpeg. Both did play new codeced audio streams and mp3s, though. splay managed to play an older RealVideo stream (in this case NASA TV), but helixplay hung as usual.

Then I tried the latest nightly build (20040107). That one performed exactly the same.

There is another project that provides a plugin to realplayer 8 for playing real 10 content under linux, but finding those files is as hard as finding files on the real.com site. The "binaries" link takes me to a license agreement, but accepting that only led to an error page. Clicking binaries again, and agreeing again takes me to a blank page.

So, can you play Real 10 content in Linux? If you were trying really hard to be optimistic, you could say "not yet", I suppose.

But I shouldn't assume too much. What problems are you having?

If you find that RealPlayer 10 still isn't solving your problems, you've got two options for a fully legal way of giving your end users what they need beside using our consumer edition of RealPlayer:

• RealPlayer Enterprise - This is a paid product which lets you control what features you deploy to your end users. It's not a free product, but you can download a free trial
• Work with us on developing a Win32 version of the Helix Player (currently only for Linux, soon for Solaris). Given that the Helix Player uses Gtk, and there's a Gtk for Win32, it may not be that tough to port. Not an instant gratification solution, but one which gives you maximum control.

Rob Lanphier
Helix Community Coordinator
RealNetworks

Just get one of the new mobile phones with RealOne embedded. You will be able to listen your favorite Internet Radio wherever you go. Of course you need to find a phone network that gives you unlimited Internet Access.

On the gadget side, what would happen if these real enabled phones are connected to a hands free device on your car? Will the sound come out of the speakers? That would be so cooool...

Which press? Links?

Earnings report link?

How many of those "subscribers" just signed up for a free trial period? (Elsewhere they make a point of mentioning "paying subscribers", so i think that's a valid question.)

How many subscribers cancelled or went inactive during the quarter?

There's lots of stuff that gets glossed-over or left out of official press releases. I don't use either service, nor do i own an Apple product, so i have nothing to gain from either one, but i distrust anything a company says about itself.

RealNetworks' first public use of the .rpm file extension is practically simultaneous with Red Hat use: (see RealAudio 2.0 release and Red Hat 2.0 release).

The need for using .rpm with modern browsers is way less than it was. However, there's enough legacy content out there that we can't just stop using it.

However, we're in the process of working on the Helix Player installer right now, so if you've got some ideas for how the two can peacefully co-exist, we'd love to hear it.

Rob

• Motorola is working with RealNetworks on RealOne for Motorola phones
• Motorola and RealNetworks' work is based on Helix
• There's support in Helix for Ogg Vorbis

Rob Lanphier
Helix Community Coordinator

"The community really needs free, powerful, robust SVG renderers and authoring tools using public standards to become popular, or else Microsoft will own yet another "standard"."

Well either pull a "Blender" and purchase this product from the company. Or merge the code that Real Networks released and SodiPodi (It still has a ways to go, feature and stability).

How long will it be before a web browser supports both SVG and SMIL well?

Note also that RealNetworks just open-sourced their SMIL implementation. Maybe that could speed up adoption, at least for open source browsers.

REALNETWORKS LAUNCHES REALONE RHAPSODY MUSIC SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE

RealOne RHAPSODY Offers 79 Transfer to CD and Access to the World's Largest Online Library of Major and Independent Label Music

CARLSBAD, CA, D: All Things Digital Conference - May 28, 2003 RealNetworks, Inc. (Nasdaq: RNWK) today announced a new music service, RealOne RHAPSODY, a co-branded version of the popular RHAPSODY digital music subscription service. RealOne RHAPSODY offers consumers unlimited, 'all you can eat' access to the broadest library of major and independent label music with more than 330,000 tracks available for on-demand listening and more than 200,000 songs available for transferring to CD, aka 'burning.' At only 79 per track, RealOne RHAPSODY offers subscribers the lowest per-burn price available to U.S. consumers through any of the new generation of digital music services.

In addition, RealOne RHAPSODY subscribers can burn full albums or custom mix CDs, build their own custom Internet radio stations, listen to professionally-programmed stations, and browse extensive music information and editorial recommendations. Offered with a 14-day free trial, consumers can sign up for RealOne RHAPSODY for $9.95 a month. Subscribers to RealNetworks' other subscription services will be able to sign-up for RealOne RHAPSODY service with one click. Please visit www.real.com for details on how to sign up for RealOne RHAPSODY.

"We are thrilled to introduce RealOne RHAPSODY which offers consumers what they want - a deep library for on-demand listening, a customizable radio service and extremely affordable burns for those songs they just can't live without," said Merrill Brown, senior vice president, RealOne Services, RealNetworks. "We are especially excited about the availability of burns to CD for a mere 79 - we believe this is a great offer to consumers who are now realizing the power of online music services."

"We are extremely pleased to join RealNetworks in introducing the newest RealOne service, RealOne RHAPSODY," said Sean Ryan, CEO, Listen.com. "RHAPSODY's unlimited listening model is already a hit with subscribers, who listen to more than 250 unique songs a month on average. Adding 79-cent CD burning will enable subscribers to easily buy and own copies of songs they like the most at the lowest price anywhere."

Last month, RealNetworks announced that it had entered into a definitive agreement to acquire Listen.com. Listen.com introduced the RHAPSODY music service in 2001. The parties expect the acquisition to be final in the 2nd or 3rd quarter. With this acquisition, RealNetworks will own two of the Internet's best subscription content services, the critically-acclaimed and market-leading RealOne SuperPass, which offers leading news, sports and entertainment programming, and the award-winning RHAPSODY music service. There are more than one million subscribers to RealNetworks' subscription services.

For More Information:
Erika Shaffer, RealNetworks, 206-892-6191, eshaffer@real.com
Matt Graves, Listen.com, 415-934-2159, mgraves@listen.com

About RealNetworks
RealNetworks, Inc. is the leading global provider of network-delivered digital audio and video services and the creator of the technology that enables digital media creation, distribution and consumption and to feed cmdrtaco's enema fetish. Consumers use RealNetworks' RealOne Player and our content subscription services to create and play free and premium digital content. Broadcasters, network operators, media companies and enterprises use RealNetworks' products and services to deliver digital media to PCs, mobile phones and consumer electronics devices. Consumers can access and experience audio/video programming and download RealNetworks' consumer software at http://www.real.com. RealNetworks' systems and corporate information is located at http://www.realnetworks.com.

You'll note that the origin for this story is CNet, and that the metric that they are using is download.com (owned by CNet). Since Kazaa.com actually links straight to download.com, it's not surprising that they have the highest numbers on download.com.

Over 335 million unique RealPlayer/RealOne Player registrations have been received by RealNetworks.

Other software makers (who don't use download.com) probably also have numbers higher than Kazaa.

Could these guys have a trademark problem with these guys ?

Well, I would hope not, but with the whole Phoenix (Web browser/BIOS/Database/Car) naming fiasco, don't count on it. Kind of makes you wonder if they researched this at all before coming up with this name?

Could these guys have a trademark problem with these guys?

They, too, produce a product called Helix for various media type things.

Could these guys have a trademark problem with these guys?

They, too, produce a product called Helix for various media type things.

Because I see two different media servers available for Linux- one costs money out the wazoo, the other costs nothing.

Darwin Streaming Server which supports QuickTime, MPEG4, and MP3 streaming.
RealNetworks Server which has supported Linux for some time, supports all Real media formats, MPEG4, etc.

In the case of the RealNetworks server, they have a free version that's crippled to 1Mbit bandwidth.

Now, it depends on when you tried this. If it was within the past few years, Darwin's streaming server has been available during that time. If it was before that, I can't understand as RealNetworks HAD a streaming server. Oh, I've figured it out, you wanted something that was "free". Sorry, the only free, uncrippled stuff as in "free beer" stuff has only shown up on the scene fairly recently.

If you did this in fairly recent times, all I can say is that you didn't try very hard. If you did this a while back, I will say that you pay for bandwidth capacity (and proportionately the same) in the case of RealNetworks' server and Microsoft's- and that there's really only players for Microsoft's on Windows. If you use the MS streaming server, forget supporting MacOS and Linux machines.

That reminds me. The new RealVideo codecs have been out for awhile, and there is a noticable difference.

Video blogging isn't that bad of an idea. Even if you made a short 5-minute realvideo clip each day and streamed it from your standard HTTP server, it would only take up 5-10 MB of space, ISP transfer costs aside.

To me, the real problems with video blogging have to do with the nature of video (and not the problem of bandwidth.)

[1] Text is random access which means that as a reader, i can scan through someone's text blog and read it as fast or as slow as i wish, and instantly skip the parts I don't want to read. Video is linear which means that in order to consume the ideas presented, you have to scan audio, text, and images in order even if you don't want to.

[2] While it will take you ten minutes to produce a compelling text paragraph with links and some light editing before you post, It takes exponentially more time to create the equivalent video "paragraph." And adding graphics and links within a text layer of a quicktime movie is really really advanced stuff. It's not the kind of stuff I see most people doing anytime soon.

That is why I'm a lot more excited by things like the WiFi2TV project that plugs the functionality of the internet into an existing video network. Although that also presents a number of problems. We'll have to see how that one goes.

Kudos to them for not encouraging WM without getin' paid.

If you must, then try these:

Real.com Contact page

the page above has their "Contact Us" email addys around the world. I wonder if their sleazeware checks for these?



--"if its illegal just forget I said it

I remember reading about them in "Architects of the Web". They were originally founded as Progressive Networks, and their stated mission was to be good citizens first and then good businessmen. They moved - proudly - into a low-rent neighborhood with the goal of helping to clean it up, and sought to provide useful tools with interesting applications. Then they had an IPO.

According to their website they still donate five percent of their income to charity. Rob Glaser is still their CEO (he founded it in 1994). But the President and Cheif Operating Officer is Larry Jacobson former President and COO of Ticketmaster (see here).

Personally I think that they have a right to develop the technology in the same way that we have a right to avoid it like the plague that it is. I'm curious to see how long it takes before they invoke the DMCA.

Whether they do or not, it seems that things have changed since they had that IPO.

I remember reading about them in "Architects of the Web". They were originally founded as Progressive Networks, and their stated mission was to be good citizens first and then good businessmen. They moved - proudly - into a low-rent neighborhood with the goal of helping to clean it up, and sought to provide useful tools with interesting applications. Then they had an IPO.

According to their website they still donate five percent of their income to charity. Rob Glaser is still their CEO (he founded it in 1994). But the President and Cheif Operating Officer is Larry Jacobson former President and COO of Ticketmaster (see here).

Personally I think that they have a right to develop the technology in the same way that we have a right to avoid it like the plague that it is. I'm curious to see how long it takes before they invoke the DMCA.

Whether they do or not, it seems that things have changed since they had that IPO.

The main benefit of this (if DRM can have a benefit) appears to be that it would simplify things for hardware makers who want to support multiple formats.

Of course, consumers don't seem to want anything but the MP3 format, and they don't want DRM at all... it's just a press release. If there was any real consumer demand for it we'd be hearing about it from its supporters before the official press release...

For what it's worth, here's Real's Technical Details about Helix DRM. It's a bit light on the specifics, though.

Real.

I currently have the Mobile Real One on my Nokia phone (why no cry on slashdot to keep and to keep Real and its proprietary Real Media out of the mobile phones market?).

Unfortunately, none of the UK networks allow UDP in or out on their GPRS connections, so I can't actually stream.

Real.

I currently have the Mobile Real One on my Nokia phone (why no cry on slashdot to keep and to keep Real and its proprietary Real Media out of the mobile phones market?).

Unfortunately, none of the UK networks allow UDP in or out on their GPRS connections, so I can't actually stream.