Kazaa Says On Track to Be Most-Downloaded Program

Cody Watkins writes "Reuters has a story about Kazaa surpassing ICQ as the most downloaded piece of software (according to C|Net Download.com). 'As of late Thursday, the Kazaa Media Desktop application -- a file-sharing software that has drawn the wrath of the music industry by enabling its users to swap songs for free -- had been downloaded 229,150,955 times, as measured by Download.com.'"

Comments

Most downloaded by lazy folk

[NDeans]

It may be the most downloaded program, but it's absolutely worthless to me. I'd rather use IRC and not worry as much about the quality of my downloads, and benjamin, if y'all can remember that big deal.

Re:Most downloaded by lazy folk

[Trolling4Dollars]

IRC is far better if you want to get a hold of some reallyh rare/unpopular stuff. The main problem with Kazaa and the like is that it mainly reflects the most pedestrian of tastes. Whereas IRC contains a lot more unusal content. As an example, when DalNet was still turning a blind eye to file transfers, I was able to acquire the entire first second and third seasons of Sliders. This program is as of yet currently unavailable in any format. However, I was able to download nearly all of the first three seasons and part of the fourth within the period of a month. They were also pretty good at keeping up with 24 and the Enterprise series. It was better than Tive because I didn't even need to remember to set anything. I'd just log onto an IRC channel and make the requests and get queud up with an FSERV. Was a thing of beauty... On the other hand you can't find ANY Sliders episodes on Kazaa.

Re:Most downloaded by lazy folk

[NDeans]

Exactly!! Yet I get modded down when I say it. Also what that article doesn't say is that counts all the revisions, and doesn't give a TRUE number of unique downloads. There have been so many revisions, and forced upgrades to the KaZaa system that their unique users is FAR less. Plus you also have to factor in repeat downloads (poor schmucks who downloaded bad stuff off of KaZaa and had to reformat/reinstall because of it) I found IRC well before P2P was in its beginning stages, and found it very easy to use. When KaZaa came out, I tried it, and didn't like it (adware, spyware, malware). I also tried Kazaa Lite, and didn't like that much either. I could get exactly what I wanted without having to d/l it twice, even three times to get the quality and even the correct thing sometimes. I guess I must have offended some KaZaa users out there. Oh well, the program is still worthless in my eyes.

Re:Most downloaded by lazy folk

[Goldberg's Pants]

Wonder how many downloads Kazaa Lite has?

Kazaa is good in it's place. Recently I was trying to grab something on emule. It was stalled for days. Jumped onto Kazaa, and it was done in under 10 minutes.

Kazaa is good for episodes of recent shows. The late lamented Firefly, you can find them ALL on there, something which I haven't seen on any other service.

IRC is great if you're a "0-dAy w4rez d00d", but you have to deal with idiots running fservs with corrupted files, or fservs that boot you etc... IRC is too frustrating and has to be babysat a lot of the time (unless you find a really reliable server.)

Wonder how many times the RIAA downloaded Kazaa so they could say "look, it has SO many downloads" when in reality, about 3 people downloaded it:)

Re:Most downloaded by lazy folk

[bn557]

great troll. it's very magical, the way you tickled the scrotum of logic there.

p

Re:Most downloaded by lazy folk

[jez9999]

... whereas now that DALnet has been beaten to a blooody pulp, they are craking down on warez(ish) channels? I don't know because I no longer use it, but I think this fact helps to illustrate what is happening to IRC - this kind of stuff is, alas, disappearing from it. It wasn't written with the intention of being a file sharing medium, and it's not a very good one nowadays either.

Re:Most downloaded by lazy folk

[AKnightCowboy]

Man, 229 million times! That's a lot of BDE spyware installs. Somebody please tell me again why with such a huge exploited base that these spyware tools are not detected by Norton Antivirus, McAfee, and others? Why must we resort to third party specialty programs like Spybot Search and Destroy and Adaware to clean our computers of these trojans?

If Microsoft added spyware that was impossible to uninstall (via normal methods) to Windows Media Player or IE people would have a shit-fit. If Kazaa does it they dismiss it and say to go download Kazaa Lite. Why support a company or piece of software that supports spyware? What's next? In order to run this shareware program you need to let us install Nimda on your system. The program will not run on a non-Nimda infected system?

First we train a decade of Windows lusers to click next-next-next-next-ok-finish without paying attention because of 500 page end-user license agreements and then some company comes along and slips a couple of sentences into there and suddenly they feel justified to install a trojan on your system that hides itself and makes itself difficult to uninstall. The average user cannot do it by themselves. That's just outright wrong. If I come across another system with 40 different spybots running I'm going to scream.

Re:Most downloaded by lazy folk

[Anonymous Coward]

The colour of my sky is black. And my desktop is still Green!!! Long live the Atari ST! Go Atari! Amiga sucks. Who cares about graphics when you have built in MIDI?

Re:Most downloaded by lazy folk

[Anonymous Coward]

Built in MIDI? Its a damn serial port you idiot! Give it up already; you gave up great graphics and excelent sound for a serial port. You daft sucker.

Re:Most downloaded by lazy folk

[tevman]

Also what that article doesn't say is that counts all the revisions, and doesn't give a TRUE number of unique downloads.

actually, it probably does give a true number of downloads because of the way kazza upgrades. When you upgrade kazaa it finds its upgrade off of the network. And besides, the point of the article wasn't really how many were downloaded, but that it surpassed icq as the #1 download. icq, by the way has had alot of revisions too :)

Re:Most downloaded by lazy folk

[alcharn]

Kazaa has definitely become worthless to me. Plus I have heard many sob stories where Kazaa has crashed computers.

followed shortly after by...

[wolfbane01]

all that porn!

Re:followed shortly after by...

[Anonymous Coward]

Although porn is not a program, porn is the most downloaded content on the Internet. The parent shouldn't be modded offtopic though.

Beat Gator huh?

[el-spectre]

If one really wanted to be a jerk, you could send out HTML spam containing some JavaScript code and take the title in a coupla weeks...

Re:Beat Gator huh?

[Billly Gates]

" If one really wanted to be a jerk, you could send out HTML spam containing some JavaScript code and take the title in a coupla weeks"

In other news kazaalite was beaten by the following program titled "Good evening, as you all know the royal family of Nigera is considered one of the wealthiest......."

Re:Beat Gator huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Which was then surpassed by a program called 'I send you this file to have your advice'

Kazaa will die like napster

[Anonymous Coward]

They prooved they can control the network when they shut out Music City, and thus it is only a matter of time before it dies. Hopefully the next super-popular P2P program that all the trailer trash download and use will default to asking you to verify if the file you downloaded is good or corrupt, so it can automatically delete corrupt files and not let them sit to be uploaded again and again.

Re:Kazaa will die like napster

[Goldberg's Pants]

Emule does this automatically. Well, sort of. It verifies the parts of the file you download, and it if it's hosed, it tries from elsewhere. Not had one corrupt file off of the network in months. (Can't say the same for any other P2P software.)

Re:Kazaa will die like napster

[NineBall]

And let's not forget that the reason they were able to shut Nappster was because Nappster used a database from which people downloaded music, and so the people who owned the database were legally responsible for copyright infringement, whilst with the new networks, a system is used whereby the users copy the songs from each other's computers, meaning that the people who run Kazaa are not legally responsible for copyright infringement, which prevents the RIAA from taking them to court, and so makes Kazaa's chances of survival much higher than Nappster's.

Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[ciryon]

Seriously, this is really bad news. I'm pretty sure that the extremely easy access to software for windows is one of the main reasons why so many use the crap instead of free/open source software.

And there could be serious copy protections, but I get the feeling that many software companies WANT their software to be pirated (by home users) so the same people want to use say MS Office or Photoshop at their workplace.

I call for better international laws against piracy, but I admit I've no idea how/if it would work.

Ciryon

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[tedDancin]

That's a good point. I think the only thing that (possibly) saves the big software companies is the following thought process:

1. Hmm.. I'm going to use Kazaa to download Photoshop.
2. Enters search terms.
3. ???
4. [Downloads pr0n]

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[sdriver]

"I call for better international laws against piracy, but I admit I've no idea how/if it would work."

KaZaA is just a tool. Sure it's used by many (I'd say most) for downloading copyrighted works. But that doesn't mean we need to make new international laws to ban it. What's next? FTP? HTTP? If copyright holders (mostly the music industry and soon the movie) really want to stop this "theft", they need to take major steps in the right direction to fix the broken relationship they have with consumers.

The music industry can start by not charging $24 for a crap-ass CD with one good song. If CD's were $5 a pop, I'd buy hundreds, not 1 to 5 a year. At least when I only spent $5 on a CD I wouldn't feel like a sucker when there is only one good song.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Noah_in_S.Korea]

Whether or not Kazaa is bad or not is irrelevent. The mad hordes have tasted P2P and apparently they savour the experience. Yes, it probably not good for the open software movement. However, it will change the business model of the entertainment industry eventually as people will refuse to pay 17 bucks for a cd with one or two good songs on it. P2P is a multi-headed hydra that is evolving along with the tactics of the evil RIAA and the BSA (boy scouts of america?) and the like. This has to be the most intelligent sounding board i have ever encountered, so my belief is that some uber geeks can create a P2P client that caters to distributing the latest open source then the movement might take off at a greater rate than today. P.S. First post!!!!! End corporate domination! choose Linux! Disclaimer- my sucky other PC runs 'ahem' backup XP!

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, this is really bad news. I'm pretty sure that the extremely easy access to software for windows is one of the main reasons why so many use the crap instead of free/open source software.

So you don't just hate software people have to pay for (because it gets pirated, and people get it illegally for free), you also hate other software that people don't have to pay for...that... that... that wouldn't be competition would it? Bloody hell, anyone would think you wanted a monopoly - so long as it's the one you're rooting for of course!

Hmph.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[daveinthesky]

And there could be serious copy protections, but I get the feeling that many software companies WANT their software to be pirated (by home users) so the same people want to use say MS Office or Photoshop at their workplace.
---------------

of course they want them to pirate it!! you've not read leisure town?

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[kzadot]

I'm pretty sure that the extremely easy access to software for windows is one of the main reasons why so many use the crap instead of free/open source software.

Easy access to windows software compared to free/open source software? What are you talking about? At work I have to use windows on the desktop but I find I do most of my work by sshing into a linux box just to get work done. Why?

A simple thing like FTP for example, to update our websites. Normally I would expect this to be part of the OS, but no. Windows ftp client is a very simple useless piece of software. I have to spend days hunting the web for something suitable. When I do find one, WSFTP or CuteFTP for example, I can only use it for 30 days then I have to pay.

On linux? apt-get install ncftp

Webcam software? Its the same.. Spent ages trying to find something for windows, found something half suitable, only worked for 30 days.

Went to linux, found that most of the software was already present, and after a 10 line perl script, I had exactly what I needed, worked much better than the windows payware.

Want to write a PDF file? People in my office needed to, asked me to find something free online. After spending a couple of hours looking for something for windows, I ended up giving them a knoppix cd.

But I guess the situation is improving, I am starting to see a few pre-cracked windows apps appearing on bittorrent, so I guess thats good news for microsoft, and the people in my office who need their software to work for more than 30 days.

And trust me, paying for software is far more abhorrent to these co-workers of mine than any piracy issues. In fact my boss always makes a joke every time someone comes in to get some software, "but you still have to pay the software company for the license to use the software". Heh.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[cscx]

And there could be serious copy protections, but I get the feeling that many software companies WANT their software to be pirated (by home users) so the same people want to use say MS Office or Photoshop at their workplace.

Exactly. Why do you think Microsoft lets me and every other student at my university purchase just about every title of their software for $5? It's all psychological, my friend.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[ciryon]

Contrary to what you do, most people get their free "serialz" from Kazaa that unlocks the software so they can use it after 30 days.

I replaced windows with Linux at my last job and was very satisfied with that. But you and me are far from representative for the masses.

Ciryon

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Goldberg's Pants]

I get the feeling that many software companies WANT their software to be pirated

You seem to be implying Applications rather than Games, but it's been rumoured for years now that certain software companies (Lucasarts for one) deliberately "leak" their software onto the net prior to release to build up hype for it.

Most copy protection is only in place to slow down copying for the first 6 weeks. Most games make the majority of their money in that first 6 weeks.

Why should there be better laws against piracy? An individual steals, it's theft. A company steals, it's business. The anti-piracy laws are already draconian. I mean for christs sake, a pirate can go down for a longer than a fucking rapist. What kind of justice system is THAT?!

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[orthogonal]

A simple thing like FTP for example, to update our websites.

FileZilla, GPL'd, I think.

Webcam, I agree, hard to find free & decent win32 programms.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[1u3hr]

A simple thing like FTP for example, to update our websites. Normally I would expect this to be part of the OS, but no. Windows ftp client is a very simple useless piece of software. I have to spend days hunting the web for something suitable. When I do find one, WSFTP or CuteFTP for example, I can only use it for 30 days then I have to pay.

There are any number of freeware ftp clients. Go to a site like freewareweb and find several.

Personally, I use the ftp client built in to Far, which is shareware, but doesn't expire. (I guess the Win version of Midnight Commander has it too, if you use that on Linux.)

Want to write a PDF file? People in my office needed to, asked me to find something free online. After spending a couple of hours looking for something for windows, I ended up giving them a knoppix cd.

Or you could have used Ghostscript, i.e. the same app as in Knoppix.

And trust me, paying for software is far more abhorrent to these co-workers of mine than any piracy issues. In fact my boss always makes a joke every time someone comes in to get some software, "but you still have to pay the software company for the license to use the software". Heh.

Well, just go to Astalavista for all your serialz and crackz.

I hate Windows myself, but I stick with it for most of my work exactly because I can find just about any app I need, free (as in beer). There are many cool apps, it's the OS that sucks.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Anonymous Coward]

Whats wrong with the Win32 ncftp client?

Can't print to PS and then use ps2pdf from Ghostscript for Win32?

It seems that a lot of people simply assume that if they're on Windows, then no OSS software is available to them. Then they jump through hoops to use the Linux version, when in fact they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble if they'd spent all of 60 seconds with Google.

Go figure.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Narcissus]

Going slightly OT, but I've found the PDF virtual printer here to be pretty good. I've only used it for relatively mundane things, but am pretty happy with it all up.

The free one will pop up a web browser to show you an online ad each time you "print" with it, or you can register for $9.95US.

The fact that it's a virtual printer makes it simple to use for anyone who can print...

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[El Cubano]

Seriously, this is really bad news. I'm pretty sure that the extremely easy access to software for windows is one of the main reasons why so many use the crap instead of free/open source software.

A couple of months ago I started asking my friends at school (all comp sci, or comp or elec eng), "Why don't you use free software instead of that windows crap?" The most common response was somenthing along the lines of, "Sure it's free, I didn't pay a dime for it." (Most of my friends have pirated copies of Win 2000/XP Pro, MS Office Pro, VS.NET

My response to them is usually to tell them how much it pisses me off that their activities make life harder on everyone trying to use legitimately free software (think surcharges on blank media and DRM schemes designed to "protect" is).

I think that the problem is that people do not see pirating software as a problem. It is sort of like speeding: so many people do it is a very small chance any one person gets caught, and if you do get caught the consequences are not that bad. I don't personally agree with the licenseing terms of windows and many of its associated popular tools, so I switched to something with more favorabe terms (and that happens to be more functional and reliable). Unfortunately most people solve the MS licensing delimma by hitting KaZaA.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[El_Froggo]

Tool-Opiate, $9.99. need i say more?

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

You're kidding right? ..I'm pretty sure that the extremely easy access to software for windows is one of the main reasons why so many use the crap instead of free/open source software...

Ah yes, well, please, do tell me an equivalent OSS program that will replace my "crappy" AutoCAD, EagleCAD or VersaCAD.

Go on...I'm waiting....

The real reason people don't usee OSS is because the software they *need* doesn't exist. Period.

Open your eyes for a moment and get out of your parent's basement and look into the real world. You know that world, it's where people work and money is made. "Crappy" windows-only software is used to make this money and these people aren't interested in OSS, they want software that *works*, and can be supported by a real company, not some dweeb that sits in his basement and cranks out aplha-quality code and says "Look! My software can do what you need! Use it instead."

Right...tell me, which OSS package do *you* use to control (in real time mind you) milling machines that make hydraulic components for the cranes that build skyscrapers?

None...because it doesn't exist.

I could go on, but I have to go to *work* and use real software to get *real* things done.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[David Gerard]

EMusic sells subscriptions for downloading (officially licensed) MP3s. I'm amazed this company isn't better-known.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[vidnet]

If CD's were $5 a pop, I'd buy hundreds.

Then why aren't you buying twenties if they're $24?

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[grazzy]

because there might be 100 cds worth 5$, but only 1-5 worth 24$ ..

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Jedi Alec]

used to use FreeFTP. These days I tend to go for start -> run -> ftp ftp.thisisaserver.com

Fail to see the problem with it, sorry. What's the matter, can't handle a command line interface?(couldn't resist that one ;-)

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Anonymous Coward]

• KaZaA is just a tool.

So are WMD, but I didn't see that stopping the US.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[poot_rootbeer]

The music industry can start by not charging $24 for a crap-ass CD with one good song. If CD's were $5 a pop, I'd buy hundreds, not 1 to 5 a year.

5 CDs @ $24 ea. = $120
100 CDs @ $5 ea. = $500

???

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[peter_gzowski]

I am soooooooo tired of this argument. It comes up every time, and always gets modded +5 insightful. Let's be honest, all right? We like KaZaA (Lite) because it lets us download music, movies, pr0n, and software without paying for it. Yes, it's a tool, and I'm sure that there are people using it to download Phish and Pat Matheny concert bootlegs (which I'm told is legal). However, it's EXPRESS PURPOSE is a spyware delivery device. Sharman knows EXACTLY what people want to use it for, and they design it to facilitate us grabbing content that we have no legal right to, so that we download it 200 million times, so that they can charge oodles of money to companies who want access to that large user base.

FTP and HTTP are not next, just as I don't see anybody outlawing P2P protocols. Maybe I'm wrong here. Does anybody know about an attack on the gnutella protocol? Not Bearshare or whomever, but the protocol?

CD's are not $24!!!! Where the hell are you buying CD's? I walk into most record stores in Toronto and 99% of the time pay no more than $18 Canadian! Popular music is often found for $14. I know that it's similar pricing for CD's in American dollars, and that this is still too much, but dude, let's be realistic. And what CD's are you buying where there's only one good song? I think you need to reevaluate your tastes. There are plenty of good venues for low CD prices. Various online merchants, and emusic have been mentioned in this thread.

I don't think content providers have really broken the relationship with customers. At least they are not solely responsible for it. Customers have told them, "given sufficiently convenient tools, we will avoid paying for content that you produce", and content providers have reacted poorly, enacting overly-restrictive laws like the DMCA. I don't know what the ideal reaction would have been, I just know that it's not that. If we want them to start repairing the relationship with us, we have to start owning up to what it is that we're really doing.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[chameleon_skin]

Not exactly. The difference in the instance you cite is that the companies in question can write off a tax loss at the end of the year ($5, after all, isn't covering the cost for them to produce that item). For pirated software, they get to write off nothing.

I'd be surprised if any of these companies actually wanted their software pirated, even if a unintended (and unproven) side effect of piracy is to boost office sales of a product. As the CEO of Coke said regarding the way the failed introduction of New Coke boosted sales of Classic Coke:

"We're not that stupid, but we're not that smart, either."

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[DarkZero]

I am soooooooo tired of this argument. It comes up every time, and always gets modded +5 insightful. Let's be honest, all right? We like KaZaA (Lite) because it lets us download music, movies, pr0n, and software without paying for it. Yes, it's a tool, and I'm sure that there are people using it to download Phish and Pat Matheny concert bootlegs (which I'm told is legal).

And I'm tired of THAT argument. I don't know what you're downloading (but I have an idea of it, because you keep using the word "we"), but a lot of us aren't just getting free stuff without paying for it. A lot of people are downloading ISOs, or free music (there's quite a lot of it, much more than just bootlegs of artists that have signed with record labels), or the loads of free videos like trailers, animated shorts, combo vids, etc. that are available I think that if you really asked around, you'd also find that a lot of us are just downloading episodes of TV shows, which is definitely illegal, but only as immoral as taping the show yourself and fast-forwarding through the commercials. In fact, a lot of the P2P and Fserv advocacy I've heard on /. has basically amounted to either, "Wow, I actually found early episodes SLIDERS (or --insert old sci-fi TV show here--) on Kazaa/IRC/BitTorrent" or "Dude, you can watch Buffy/Enterprise a day early with Kazaa!".

The point is, just because you're pirating lots of copyrighted stuff doesn't mean that the rest of us are. You have no idea what we're downloading, so don't assume. A lot of it is legal and the majority of it is grey area stuff like TV shows or fansubbed anime, and both of those are things that none of the copyright holders really care about.

CD's are not $24!!!! Where the hell are you buying CD's? I walk into most record stores in Toronto and 99% of the time pay no more than $18 Canadian! Popular music is often found for $14. I know that it's similar pricing for CD's in American dollars, and that this is still too much, but dude, let's be realistic. And what CD's are you buying where there's only one good song? I think you need to reevaluate your tastes. There are plenty of good venues for low CD prices. Various online merchants, and emusic have been mentioned in this thread.

$24USD is an exaggeration, but so is $14USD. It's more like $18USD for a new CD, providing that what you want hasn't been shoved into a larger package to force you to pay for stuff that you don't want, such as what has been done with a lot of popular rereleases for older bands in the last few years. And regarding Emusic and such, the parent poster's point was not that music cannot be gotten cheaply, but rather that the RIAA should price it so that you can walk into a music store and buy it for a lower price. Regardless of whether what Kazaa users are doing is morally justified or not, it's just senseless for the RIAA to see the demand for their products declining and not lower the price of those products. There's no real competition in the music industry because of the close-knitted nature of the RIAA and that may or may not be showing in their profits, but they should certainly try something new, because what they're doing isn't working.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[maxpublic]

I don't think content providers have really broken the relationship with customers. At least they are not solely responsible for it. Customers have told them, "given sufficiently convenient tools, we will avoid paying for content that you produce"

And the world revolves around your arsehole, as well.

Most people aren't thieves looking for a free ride. This is a myth propagated by folks who are, indeed, morally bereft and assume that if they are then everyone else must be as well. It's a way of making yourself feel like less of a shit for being a dick, or for making yourself feel superior to the rest of the human race.

Basic psychological studies have proven, time and again, that the average Joe or Jane is not a crook. That the average Joe or Jane will only stoop to criminal activity if they think the law they're breaking is idiotic or unfair, or if they think they're being fucked by the system. Given the number of people using file sharing services, I'd hazard a guess that quite a few people are of the opinion that they're being bent over by the record and music industry and feel justified in getting some 'payback'.

And there are quite a few of us who 'try before we buy'. I just downloaded the entire Evanescence CD and found enough of it to be worthwhile to purchase it. I've done this with *hundreds of CDs*, which I now own, CDs I'd never have purchased if I couldn't download them and play them for a week to see if they were worth the money.

I've also passed on a number of the more popular CDs once I realized that all but one or two tracks were complete shit. Perhaps this is why the RIAA is so ticked off at folks like myself? We sample and say 'no freakin' way I'm paying $16 for two bloody songs!' and then go on to purchase every Ani DiFranco CD ever made? I wonder....

In any event, the people who get on Slashdot and claim that everyone would be a criminal if only they could get away with it are not only full of shit, but saying volumes about their *own* character to the rest of the world. It's *these* people who can't be trusted and should be avoided at all costs.

Max

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[maxpublic]

I could go on, but I have to go to *work* and use real software to get *real* things done.

And what Windows OS can handle the number crunching required in the genetic analysis of fish in the lab that my wife works it? Forget a Windows version of the app - it doesn't exist.

None. Windows can't deal with the enormous number crunching required without crapping out. Linux, on the other hand, is capable of the task.

The point being simple: the software for these various tasks is written for whatever OS is being used by the company, unless the OS is incapable of the job. If everyone were to switch to Linux tomorrow, then software would be written to control (in real time, mind you) milling machines that make hydraulic components for the cranes that build skyscrapers.

But it turns out that Windows simply can't be used for certain tasks, the one I mentioned above being just one example. So in quite a few places software for Linux is being used to get *real* things done at *work*, regardless of what you personally believe or wish to be true.

I know this because I see it every day.

Max

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[sdriver]

How many CD's are worth $24? Hell, even $15? Not many.

How many are worth $5 or less? most.

If I'm going to risk paying $15-24 on a CD, I want to be sure it has a ton of good stuff. That happens how offen?

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Windows (as of Windows 2000) has a built in FTP client as well. Just type the URL in the address bar.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[peter_gzowski]

Look, Max, I'm not trying to make myself feel like less of a dick, and I'm not looking for a free ride. I pay my $15/month to emusic and find my music there. Nor am I calling you a thief. I'm fully aware that there are people using KaZaA (Lite) in a morally legitimate manner, if not neccessarily legally legitimate manner, and I'm fine with that. More power to you. You can cite all the psychological studies you want (and I would be interested if you did, as opposed to the vague studies of "time and again" that you mention), but I'd like you to answer this: of the 5-10 million people on kazaa at any given time, what percentage of them are using it exclusively for morally legitimate purposes? I'm not saying that if this number is less than 50% or something that kazaa should be shut down, I'm just saying we should be honest about what the MAJORITY of it's users are doing, and how the parent company intends it's product to be used.

Now, as on to your 'try before you buy' argument. I'm glad that you use kazaa as a method of sampling music that you then go out and buy. That's how I used to use it, and I continue to use it occasionally in this manner (still buy, occasionally use). However, you and I don't get to dictate to an artist how we sample their content. If Evanescence have come out and said that they don't mind or encourage the trading of their songs on kazaa (presumably because they think it will help their sales, or at least bring their music to a wider audience), then that's fine. Otherwise, you and I should stick to listening to Evanescence through the channels that they, the band (you know, the guys who actually produce the music?), approve of. I think I'll go and try to find some of those channels so I can hear the band you're talking about.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[maxpublic]

I'm just saying we should be honest about what the MAJORITY of it's users are doing

Precisely my point. You have no idea what the majority of these users are doing, you're just assuming that your completely unsupported opinion on the matter is actual fact.

However, you and I don't get to dictate to an artist how we sample their content

Sure we do. No 'artist' has a constitutional right to restrict sampling nor, for that matter, copying. I sample, and I buy if I like what I hear - this may be illegal, but I don't give a shit. As far as I'm concerned the law is a crock.

Don't like it? I don't really care. Fact is that's the way I operate, and the RIAA and the band - if they're any good - make money off of me because of this. Neither the RIAA nor the band has any business telling me that I have to change my ways. So long as they get their chunk o' change (again assuming they're worth the price, which is why I sample in the first place) they only business they have is shutting the fuck up and cashing their check.

Fact is, could be most of the folks out there do exactly what I do. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? No, you don't - not a whit. And neither does the RIAA.

Max

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Anonymous Coward]

Basic psychological studies have proven, time and again, that the average Joe or Jane is not a crook.

My basic psychological studies indicate that Joe and Jane will rationalize whatever actions they are partaking in so they don't think of themselves as a "crook" (or a bad person or whatever).

I'll presume there's some basic human need to assume that "I'm OK, You're OK", which is why institutions like slavery lasted as long as they did, people put up with brutal dictators, and every "I'm a moral P2Per" post on slashbot gets backslapped up to 5.

Personally, I prefer to deal with the "morally bereft" people. Much more honest, more predictable, and more trustworthy, than those who feel the need to justify their hedonism with some sort of made-up-on-the-spot moral code. The latter will screw you without the slightest hint of intellect or compunction when it benefits them, because there's always some justfication.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[bkakes]

Precisely my point. You have no idea what the majority of these users are doing, you're just assuming that your completely unsupported opinion on the matter is actual fact.

You're absolutely right; he's assuming. And it's one hell of a reasonable assumption. I know that every single person in my dorms stole music, movies, and/or software from KaZaA. I know that no free music or piece of software has ever come close to 230 million downloads. By contrast, I have yet to meet a single person who used KaZaA and never stole anything (and no, I don't believe you). Hey, it just hit me that it's possible that no one is using IE any more, but instead almost everyone is running Slackware with Konqueror set to send off IE's identification string and claim it's running on Windows!!

Sure we do. No 'artist' has a constitutional right to restrict sampling nor, for that matter, copying.

This is absolutely hilarious. I could just as easily (and stupidly) say that no person has a Consitutional right to work on Linux, as it's not explicitly mentioned, and thus say that Linux is unConstitutional. The Consitution protects property rights. Intellectual property is part of that.

I sample, and I buy if I like what I hear - this may be illegal, but I don't give a shit. As far as I'm concerned the law is a crock. Don't like it? I don't really care. Fact is that's the way I operate

I love this. The buyer claiming he has the right to dictate terms to the seller, without requiring the seller's consent for the transaction. "I break the window, I take what I want. Later, I send a check that more than covers it. That's the way I operate. Don't like it, tough."

Stop making claims you know to be ridiculous and pretending that you have the right to dictate to a company how any transaction will occur (without their consent).

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

You'll note that nowhere in my post did I rag on Linux. Nowhere. What I was replying to was this comment: ...I'm pretty sure that the extremely easy access to software for windows is one of the main reasons why so many use the crap instead of free/open source software...

I don't use Linux, personally, I think it is crap (but then I think windows is too) but in this comment I put aside the OS and concentrated on what the poster was saying, which was in effect:

"Use free software! Don't be a slave to commercial software!"

My response was simply "Bollocks"

One of the labs I support use, of all things, the Mac OS (7.5.3 to boot) to control a Cytometer.

You can be damned sure the software isn't some cobbled together POS either, it's written by professionals, for professionals and it's priced accordingly. But you know what? If something goes wrong, there are people standing behind the product to make certain it gets fixed, and I'm willing to place money on the fact that your genetic sequencer program is identical.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[ryanwright]

I sample, and I buy if I like what I hear - this may be illegal, but I don't give a shit. As far as I'm concerned the law is a crock.

You got it. I download - and archive - Enterprise episodes. Why? I can't pick it up over the air, my local cable company doesn't have it, and even if they did I wouldn't subscribe for one show. So I download them. Illegal? Sure. Do I care? Hell no. What's the difference between downloading them and taping them with my VCR? There isn't any. Morally I have zero problems with my actions.

Oh, and to take this one step further, I downloaded American Pie 2 before it was in theaters. I thought the first one was so hilarious I watched it nearly a dozen times in theaters, and then bought the DVD. I just had to have a sneak preview of part 2. I still saw it (part 2) in theaters, and I still bought the DVD. Now tell me how I'm a crook? They got their money from me. I'm one of their most loyal customers.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[maxpublic]

I know that every single person in my dorms stole music, movies, and/or software from KaZaA.

Yet another college brat spouting off about his dorm as if that were a reflection of real life. Get a clue, kid.

I have yet to meet a single person who used KaZaA and never stole anything (and no, I don't believe you)

Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant to the actual fact of the matter. Fortunately for me, your opinion on my trustworthiness matters for dick.

The Consitution protects property rights. Intellectual property is part of that.

There is no such thing as intellectual property, nor is anything remotely like this ever mentioned in the Constitution. Since you apparently haven't read this document, here's the relevant excerpt:

"To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries"

Note that this is the *entire* scope of the patent and copyright process. The *sole goal* is to promote the progress of science and the 'useful arts' (rap would no doubt be excluded); no provision whatsoever is made for protecting '
'intellectual property'. In fact, neither inventions nor artistic endeavors are considered to *be* property, which is covered under *other* sections of the Constitution.

Your assertion is not only specious, it's just plain wrong.

Stop making claims you know to be ridiculous and pretending that you have the right to dictate to a company how any transaction will occur (without their consent).

Listen up, junior. I do have the right to do this since *I'm doing it right now*. What the fuck are you going to do about it? Pass another law? Yeah, let me pause here while I and the other hundred million or so users of the dozen major file sharing networks laugh my ass off at you. You're completely and utterly impotent; there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it other than rant here on Slashdot.

The only option, in this case, is to change the business model. And to assume that people are basically good, because the alternative means that Big Brother will have to come about to enforce the laws in question.

Like I said, I sample and then I buy. Because I assume that people are basically decent human beings, I'm willing to bet that many - probably most - other folks do the same. That says something about *my* character.

The fact that you think everyone (except yourself, of course) is a crook and a liar says a great deal about *your* character.

Max

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[bkakes]

Yet another college brat spouting off about his dorm as if that were a reflection of real life. Get a clue, kid.

I like how you've degenerated into ad hominem attacks ("college brat") instead of defending your point. I mentioned the dorms because it is evidence showing that in hundreds of cases, at least, the percentage of people whole used the services illegally was 100. You, on the other hand, keep claiming that we don't know what is being downloaded, and thus it could be mostly legally, yet you provide no evidence whatsoever. Sure, my anecdotal evidence doesn't prove that "lots of piracy" is the case, but you're the one making the more spurious claim. I may not have proof that N != NP, but if you were to claim that they are in fact equal, the burden of evidence would certainly fall upon your shoulders.

Your assertion is not only specious, it's just plain wrong.

Even the line you quoted would seem to support my argument rather than yours.

Listen up, junior.

More great ad hominem attacks from a person who can't apparently feels unable to defend his point in a reasonable fashion. "Junior?" What are you, 65? And do you think I'm 12?

I do have the right to do this since *I'm doing it right now*.

Wow. This has got to be one of the single most hilarious lines I've ever read on Slashdot, and that's saying a lot. You simply have to love the logic in "I'm doing it, thus I have a right to do it." I guess we can all stop complaining about genocide, wife beaters, and that Slashdot favorite, Microsoft!

What the fuck are you going to do about it? Pass another law? Yeah, let me pause here while I and the other hundred million or so users of the dozen major file sharing networks laugh my ass off at you. You're completely and utterly impotent;

Ah, I see that now we've moved down into, "You can't stop me, thus I have a right to do it." Such a highly evolved philosophic viewpoint from someone feeling the need to refer to me as "junior".

Because I assume that people are basically decent human beings...That says something about *my* character. The fact that you think everyone (except yourself, of course) is a crook and a liar says a great deal about *your* character.

How I feel about other human beings says nothing about my character. For the curious, I feel that the anonymity, the "I won't get caught" mentality, and the lack of a visible victim other than the stereotypical view of "a huge and rich corporation" make people justify piracy more easily to themselves. It's not that I think people in general are bad; just that they sometimes misled by bad reasoning. It's quite similar to the tendency to side with individual plaintiffs when they have complaints against large corporations. The thought tends to be, "Well, they're rich, so they won't really be hurt by it, anyway."

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Anonym1ty]

New CD's for $14.00 Canadian, Woohoo -I'm getting in my car right now and drive there ya hey.

It seems the Recording Industry likes Canadians better, they're only charge you twice what they're music is worth.

$14.00 Canadian is $10.18 US dollars 5/27/2003 @ 12:00 Noon Bank of Canada

All things fair, the music is worth whatever they can sell it for.... pity is they'd sell sooooo much more if it were cheaper, they'd make even more money in the long run. Too bad they'll never try it.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Art_Vandelai]

You wouldn't believe how many things are cheaper in Canada than in the U.S. Cars and prescription drugs especially come to mind - cars because Canadian incomes are mostly lower - we save anywhere from $2 to $5K on the price of a new car, and drugs because of government regulations that require them to be at the same price for everyone - government sponsored drug plan or not.

American visitors can even get their sales taxes (8% PST & 7% GST) rebated on their way back home across the border.

I'm surprised you Americans aren't all up here shopping all the time. $14.99 - $18.99 CAD is a common price (and has been for most of the last 10 years or so) for the most popular new CD releases.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[maxpublic]

Cleary you're enamored of your own bullshit, which doesn't surprise me. Nothing in your post is worth responding to except for these two points:

Wow. This has got to be one of the single most hilarious lines I've ever read on Slashdot, and that's saying a lot. You simply have to love the logic in "I'm doing it, thus I have a right to do it." I guess we can all stop complaining about genocide, wife beaters, and that Slashdot favorite, Microsoft!

I would assume that you missed the point entirely, but the introduction of the strawmen tells me you're just attempting to divert the argument since you don't want to examine the basis behind it.

Fact: file sharing is here to stay.
Fact: there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
Fact: file sharing of music wouldn't be prevalent if the market responded appropriately to changing conditions.
Fact: the RIAA attempt to freeze technological progress in its tracks is exactly the same thing that buggy whip manufacturers tried when the car was introduced. And is doomed to the same failure.

Conclusion: if you want to get paid for the service, in this case music, you have to provide it at a price people are willing to pay, in the format that they want it. That's called 'capitalism'. Trying to thwart the free market is called 'acting like a fucking totalitarian idiot'.

File sharing is here because the market is refusing to respond to changing conditions. If the folks providing the service had any real interest in capitalism, they'd try to adopt a new model, much as Apple has with iTunes. Quite obviously they realize they're outdated and outmoded and don't care to adapt; the only thing they're interested in at this point is maintaining the status quo - a fool's game by any measure.

So when I say 'I'm doing it right now' it's a statement of fact for tens of millions of people. You can either try to make all of those people criminals, or you can change your business model to accommodate those people. Criminalization is for idiots who want power, not profit; and if they can't figure out a way to stay in business via the free market (again, Apple and iTunes) then they deserve to die out.

It's that simple. It's a matter of personal responsibility that I actually go out and pay for CDs that I like, despite the rather obvious and unstoppable change in the economic paradigm of music manufacturing. I will continue to do so, as I'm sure many other people will, until the RIAA chokes on itself and something else comes along to replace it.

How I feel about other human beings says nothing about my character

Sure it does. It says you're heavily invested in believing everyone else is a shit in order to make your own deplorable character more acceptable to yourself. Your beliefs tell me that only a moron would ever trust you, or turn his back on you.

And that's all for me - junior.

Max

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[bkakes]

Suddenly it makes sense that you've had time to post 1401 Slashdot comments; it's apparently more efficient to swear and insult than to think about the points you're responding to before writing. Cleary you're enamored of your own bullshit, which doesn't surprise me. More ad hominem attacks. Again, I guess it's easier than responding to real points, huh? Nothing in your post is worth responding to except for these two points Since you apparently felt it worthwhile to spend half of your response with pointless insults, I think any reasonable person will assume that it's more like you can't respond to the points. I can't imagine that responding to any point is somehow a lesser use of time than hurtling unsubstantiated insults at strangers. I would assume that you missed the point entirely Actually, no, I directly quoted you, and then showed how what you said ("I do it, therefore it's my right to do it") is utterly ridiculous. Multiple times, I might add. Fact: file sharing is here to stay. Fact: there isn't a damn thing you can do about it The amusing thing is that I completely agree with you here, and with a decently large proportion of the rest of your comment. But that's because you've shifted the focus of your thread from "people don't use filesharing to pirate" to "the RIAA needs to adapt to the desires of their customers." Fact: file sharing of music wouldn't be prevalent if the market responded appropriately to changing conditions. You simply cannot state this as a fact. While it's almost a given that the cheaper something is (or the more attactive a purchase it otherwise is), the less desire there will be to steal it, you're still talking "free" vs. "some cost". So "less prevalent"? Almost certainly. That doesn't mean it wouldn't still exist in spades. Heck, a lot of the posts on Slashdot alone when Apple unveiled the iTunes Music Store were along the lines of, "Kazaa is free. I like that better." That's called 'capitalism'. Trying to thwart the free market is called 'acting like a fucking totalitarian idiot'. Actually, capitalism is simply a system in which rights are protected. That includes intellectual property rights. I agree completely that the beauty of capitalism--and capitalism is indeed a beautiful system--is that if one company provides a better service than another, it will win out. And yes, the RIAA should have been better to adopt their business model to embrace new technologies, such as Apple has done. But we're talking illegal (i.e. violating rights) acts here. Trying to stop illegal filesharers isn't trying to "thwart the free market", it's trying to prevent illegal actions. Violations of rights are exactly what thwart a free market. The RIAA trying to "thwart the free market" would be trying, say, to pass a law banning what Apple has done. Sure it does. It says you're heavily invested in believing everyone else is a shit in order to make your own deplorable character more acceptable to yourself. Oh, mercy. Yet more pointless insults because he can't think of anything else to say. I could save myself a lot of time when responding to his comments by assigning a macro to enter "ad hominem"; the comments are littered with them, and little else. I particularly love the reference to my "deplorable character" when he knows practically nothing about me. I think someone needs to find themselves some self esteem. And no, I don't think everyone else is "shit" (as I explained in my previous post), let alone do I feel that way to make myself feel better--hey, I'm not the one with sufficient lack of self-worth that I have to throw insults out to strangers rather than contemplate and discuss real points. My "beliefs" are simply based on the observations I have made, which I detailed in my earlier posts. You, of course, have never provided your own evidence to support your points. You keep throwing out insults rather than evidence or even real rebuttals. But yeah, I guess that is easier, huh? Your b

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[bkakes]

Suddenly it makes sense that you've had time to post 1441 Slashdot comments; it's apparently more efficient to swear and insult than to think about the points you're responding to before writing.

Cleary you're enamored of your own bullshit, which doesn't surprise me.

More ad hominem attacks. Again, I guess it's easier than responding to real points, huh?

Nothing in your post is worth responding to except for these two points

Since you apparently felt it worthwhile to spend half of your response with pointless insults, I think any reasonable person will assume that it's more like you can't respond to the points. I can't imagine that responding to any point is somehow a lesser use of time than hurtling unsubstantiated insults at strangers.

I would assume that you missed the point entirely

Actually, no, I directly quoted you, and then showed how what you said ("I do it, therefore it's my right to do it") is utterly ridiculous. Multiple times, I might add.

Fact: file sharing is here to stay.
Fact: there isn't a damn thing you can do about it

The amusing thing is that I completely agree with you here, and with a decently large proportion of the rest of your comment. But that's because you've shifted the focus of your thread from "people don't use filesharing to pirate" to "the RIAA needs to adapt to the desires of their customers."

Fact: file sharing of music wouldn't be prevalent if the market responded appropriately to changing conditions.

You simply cannot state this as a fact. While it's almost a given that the cheaper something is (or the more attactive a purchase it otherwise is), the less desire there will be to steal it, you're still talking "free" vs. "some cost". So "less prevalent"? Almost certainly. That doesn't mean it wouldn't still exist in spades. Heck, a lot of the posts on Slashdot alone when Apple unveiled the iTunes Music Store were along the lines of, "Kazaa is free. I like that better."

That's called 'capitalism'. Trying to thwart the free market is called 'acting like a fucking totalitarian idiot'.

Actually, capitalism is simply a system in which rights are protected. That includes intellectual property rights. I agree completely that the beauty of capitalism--and capitalism is indeed a beautiful system--is that if one company provides a better service than another, it will win out. And yes, the RIAA should have been better to adopt their business model to embrace new technologies, such as Apple has done. But we're talking illegal (i.e. violating rights) acts here. Trying to stop illegal filesharers isn't trying to "thwart the free market", it's trying to prevent illegal actions. Violations of rights are exactly what thwart a free market. The RIAA trying to "thwart the free market" would be trying, say, to pass a law banning what Apple has done.

Sure it does. It says you're heavily invested in believing everyone else is a shit in order to make your own deplorable character more acceptable to yourself.

Oh, mercy. Yet more pointless insults because he can't think of anything else to say. I could save myself a lot of time when responding to his comments by assigning a macro to enter "ad hominem"; the comments are littered with them, and little else.

I particularly love the reference to my "deplorable character" when he knows practically nothing about me. I think someone needs to find themselves some self esteem. And no, I don't think everyone else is "shit" (as I explained in my previous post), let alone do I feel that way to make myself feel better--hey, I'm not the one with sufficient lack of self-worth that I have to throw insults out to strangers rather than contemplate and discuss real points.

My "beliefs" are simply based on the observations I have made, which I detailed in my earlier posts. You, of course, have never provided your own evidence to support your points. You

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[Anonym1ty]

well in that case, you better hope we all don't come up there... If we do it'll give 'em a reason to raise your prices too. ;)

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[spoons67]

Fact: the RIAA attempt to freeze technological progress in its tracks is exactly the same thing that buggy whip manufacturers tried when the car was introduced. And is doomed to the same failure.

Wow. Seeing as you seem to know this from experience, I suppose you can call bkakes "Junior". However, you have bypassed logic in order to make some sweeping statements that appeal to peoples emotions, a favorite tactic of those that have a weak point.

For example, the concepts of "free market" and "capitalism" far predate the onset of music filesharing. Being able to get something for free that's just as good (or almost as good for the audiophiles among us) as something you pay for was not part of the original free market equation.

Conclusion: if you want to get paid for the service, in this case music, you have to provide it at a price people are willing to pay, in the format that they want it. That's called 'capitalism'. Trying to thwart the free market is called 'acting like a fucking totalitarian idiot'.

There you go again, trying to pass off the free market theory when it simply does not apply to such a situation. While I have no love for the RIAA or MPAA, i almost pity them because they are one of the few industries that have to compete with "free". All they have going for them right now is quality and, for some, morality, and the gap is closing fast on the former. There somes a point at which the content on KaZaA et. all will be indistinguishable from that available in stores, and connections will enable people to have it in much less time than it takes to buy it for infinitely less money. At that time, what is your justification? The RIAA can no longer offer an alternative at that point. You say that the RIAA could have changed their business model according to the changing market conditions. Only one man has really come close to achieving what you propose for the RIAA to do (compete with a free product), and he happens to be (by the numbers) the best businessman in the world. Even he is losing ground in some areas. (I'll give you a hint, he's got an office in Redmond.)

Like I said before, it's pretty damn hard to compete with free. Any thoughts, "Old Timer"?

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[MacWiz]

Absolutely the best series I've read anywhere. Good job, Max. Keep kicking the asses of the uninformed.

Re:Napster baaad, Kazaa wooorse

[nalfeshnee]

Please mod parent up, it's worth it for the comment "given sufficiently convenient tools, we will avoid paying for content that you produce."

THAT should be on the next ThinkGeek T-Shirt: in ASCII spelled out in binary, or whatever.

How about it in Latin?

Furunculum adducit commodum.

Thanx,

Nalfy.

P.S. And yes, the Latin is my own. Caveat lector!

Value-added

[Mattygfunk1]

Because of it's extreme popularity, I am surprised they have not attempted to provide more "value-added" services with the program. They have the attention of a lot of people when their program runs. This is a huge potential audience for further offerings and helps distance them to the whole "it is just for pirate music!" crap.

Cheap reseller hosting and individual accounts.

Re:Value-added

[BagOBones]

What other than the thousands of popup adds served by the spyware/adware installed with the official client?

Re:Value-added

[sould]

Here's your value added Kazaa right here.

Kinda works under wine too

Re:Value-added

[Anonymous Coward]

kazaalite.com? um, no.. try k-lite.tk.

Re:Value-added

[JPriest]

I know more people that use Kazaa Lite than Kazaa, if you combine the download statistics of K-Lite with that of Kazaa I am willing to bet it has already surpassed ICQ.

Re:Value-added

[sparrow_hawk]

Argh, don't bother using Kazaa Lite under wine on Linux. You don't have enough time or hair, believe me. Get giFT, toss in the FastTrack plugin, and you're all set. Gnutella, OpenFT, and FastTrack, all with one daemon.

Re:Value-added

[clarkc3]

just be sure to run something to remove the key logger it installs along with itself. Try this after you install it and you'll see what I'm talking about

Re:Value-added

[jandrese]

What about when you add the download statistics for Trillian and the like for ICQ?

Re:Value-added

[ogre2112]

Either you haven't heard of spyware or you are joking.

Kazaa is already dead

[ites]

It is popular, but I believe it is stuck in its 'second generation P2P' model, namely closed-source, Windows-only, spyware advertising, worm-heaven.

All products go through a life-cycle from pioneer, early-adopter, maturity, late-adopter. Kazaa is already in its late-adopter phase.

Question: what are the early-adopter P2P products today? These will be the market leaders tomorrow, and they will be: open source, portable, secure against worms and attacks, silent.

Re:Kazaa is already dead

[mikedotd]

Freenet looks like a promising "nextgen" P2P network. It provides an anonymous, caching, decentralized redundant network that operates on any computer that has sun java 1.4 installed.

Re:Kazaa is already dead

[Jugalator]

I prefer eMule to Kazaa. A SourceForge project and an excellent P2P application with much better functionality than Kazaa. It has pretty speedy update cycles too, they aim for about 1 to 3 weeks between updates and are so far keeping up with that goal well. It's of course free and completely void of spyware.

http://www.emule-project.net/

The current version, 0.28b, is much more mature than one might think from the version number. :)

Ports of eMule (Windows application) are under development: lMule (Linux) and xMule (OSX). See their forums for more information.

Re:Kazaa is already dead

[jez9999]

I hate eMule. It seems to allow impartially downloaded files to be shared on the network, and even encourages this by showing you a bar for each file that illustrates which parts of the file the person has. When I tried to download a video from there, *nobody* had the whole thing, they all just had the same small snippets of it! What good is that? Any P2P client that encourages non-complete files to be shared is stupid, and should die.

Re:Kazaa is already dead

[Narcissus]

I'd guess that that's just from someone getting online with the complete file in the beginning, but dropping off before anyone had to chance to get it all. That means that everyone else knows the full file is out there, but they just can't see it.

Alternatively, and slightly assuming how the network is searched, maybe the full version is too far away from you to even see it. Just a thought, though no doubt the first option is much more likely.

I think it would be very difficult for the very first person who uploaded it to start with a broken file. I mean, whether you cut the last part of the file off, cut the middle out or replace sections of the file with empty data, you'd still end up with a complete file of some sort (just not entirely what you expected).

Re:Kazaa is already dead

[Jugalator]

This is to spread files much quicker. I don't see why it should be worse to allow incomplete files to be shared.

Partial support let you share both partial and full files. Full support only does the same job, only slower, since you can't even start downloading from a partial source while waiting for a full source to enter the network. With eMule, you'll be able to download from multiple partial sources while waiting for the full ones. That's better than zero bandwidth usage while waiting for the full ones to me.

A P2P network only allowing full files just makes it harder to get anything. Partial support means that when a rare source with a full file, at least *someone* might be online at the same time and get something, which others can get afterwards. With only full files, you wouldn't even get that. Someone would have to get the *entire* file before *anyone* could start downloading. And the same rule would apply for everyone on the entire network.

Re:Kazaa is already dead

[Anonymous Coward]

Abolish the UK TV licence fee!
To join BBCresistance, e-mail:
[deleted]@topica.com

No. Try it and you'll have to step over my cold, dead body to do it, too.

I'd ask why you think that would be a good idea, but I'd probably get a cretinous half-reply based on some wishy washy form of Libertarianism you picked up from Slashdot. So treat that as a rhetorical question.

Re:Kazaa is already dead

[Mr_Silver]

It is popular, but I believe it is stuck in its 'second generation P2P' model, namely closed-source, Windows-only, spyware advertising, worm-heaven.

Yeah, because everyone outside of Slashdot is so concerned about whether or not they can get access to the code. As it's been seen, they don't care in the slightest and are happy to put up with the spyware so they can download "Super 3D Blaster-o-Tron" without paying the 40 quid to a shop.

Given that it's had just under 230 million downloads, I really can't see how opening the code up and porting to an OS which has 5% market share (Apple) and less than 1% market share (Linux) is in any way going to significantly boost the numbers to the point anyone would actually notice.

Harsh I know. But fair. Sorry.

Re:Kazaa is already dead

[DrCreep]

I coulnd't agree more with you. Kazaa's day to be worth a whole lot has passed. I mean really, try finding anything but the latest top 40 and you'll end up with nothing. I say let them have their Kazaa, let the RIAA come down on *them*, while we have our other means of file-sharing that gets to stay under the radar so to speak. -Doc

Re:Kazaa is already dead

[CvD]

eMule uses the eDonkey/Overnet network, so all users using Overnet (my P2P of choice) and eDonkey are sources too. There's not as many users as KaZaa, but you can find nearly anything.

I haven't given lMule a shot, but its looking very promising.

Cheers,

Costyn.

eh?

[djupedal]

I thought that record belonged to Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson...

Re:eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

ha! djupedal doesn't know the difference between a program and a movie! everybody point and laugh at djupedal!

Only the highest on download.com

[robla]

You'll note that the origin for this story is CNet, and that the metric that they are using is download.com (owned by CNet). Since Kazaa.com actually links straight to download.com, it's not surprising that they have the highest numbers on download.com.

Over 335 million unique RealPlayer/RealOne Player registrations have been received by RealNetworks.

Other software makers (who don't use download.com) probably also have numbers higher than Kazaa.

Re:Only the highest on download.com

[sould]

Over 335 million unique RealPlayer/RealOne Player registrations have been received by RealNetworks.

At least 300 million of them were me doing sould1@foo.bar, sould2@foo.bar, sould3@foo.bar, .... sould300000000@foo.bar 'cause I couldn't remember what I'd registered as last time I'd needed to watch a realplayer movie, before deleting the binaries 'cause it's a buggy, reminderware, bloated heap o' shite!

Re:Only the highest on download.com

[Anonymous Coward]

..said by a fellow who works/pimps for realnetworks.

Re:Only the highest on download.com

[robla]

I'm merely using my position at RealNetworks to get more karma on Slashdot. Seems to be working. ;-)

Re:Only the highest on download.com

[cliveholloway]

just use abuse@real.com - very easy to remember :)

.02

cLive ;-)

--
Trinity in high heels, carrying a whip
The Donimatrix - there is no spoonerism.

Re:Only the highest on download.com

[gonknet]

According to the Adobe Acrobat website, Acrobat Reader (just renamed Adobe Reader) has been downloaded over 500 million times.

In related news...

[DeadScreenSky]

Cydoor and BDE could soon announce that they are still beating Kazaa for the title of "Most-Downloaded Program", since they are also installed with many non-Kazaa programs as well.

(Memory a little hazy here! Fact nazis, prepare your guns!)
Kind of like how Doom was the most downloaded program ever durings its era...except for the unzip program that they distributed with the installer.

Anyways: Over 200 million spyware installations just from one program. That is a pretty scary thought, isn't it?

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

They are suing a college Jimmy Smith for an "itsy-bitsy" fraction of the money sought. It totals to $1,000,000,000,000,000.33. "We had to make him pay for the stamp on our letter", said an RIAA spokesman. Mr. Smith was interviewed. "First my college raised my tuition by $900 for the current semester, forcing me to go without food for finals week, and now I get sued for over one quadrillion dollars. It's really not my year. Last I checked, my net worth is $-23,000,75. I hope it doesn't get any lower."

Re:In related news...

[amoe]

Anyways: Over 200 million spyware installations just from one program. That is a pretty scary thought, isn't it?

Yes. But probably music to the ears of unemployed tech support guys. :-)

Re:In related news...

[Nexus Seven]

$34,350,000,000,000,000 = $34 quadrillion

Re:In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nerd.

Followed closely by....

[Anonymous Coward]

....that dancing baby animation. :(

If you build it...

[Captain Splendid]

..they will come. In absolute bloody droves, no less. Kazaa and its ilk are just one big crappy swap meet. Users get what they deserve.

second most downloaded will be..

[Catcher80]

Well damn! If Kazaa is the most downloaded, then AdAware will have to be the second most downloaded to get rid of all the spyware from Kazaa!!!

Amazing, the most downloaded piece of software in history has spyware written all over it :)

Or did c|net mean Kazaa LITE?

Re:second most downloaded will be..

[flokemon]

download.com took off the kazaalite files from their site after kazaa requested it.

Re:second most downloaded will be..

[Catcher80]

hah! figures :)

Actually

[kilogram]

Kazaa Says On Track to Be Most-Downloaded Program

Actually, Kazaa Stays On Track...

What is Kazaa saying?

[GrodinTierce]

Or better yet, what is On Track?

Re:What is Kazaa saying?

[Jellybob]

Remaining consistently working in the same direction.

i.e. "The RIAA is on track to shoot it's self in the foot."

Legal use?

[Simon Lyngshede]

I wonder how many of the people who downloaded Kazaa a using it for legal purposes. Peer 2 Peer is a great idea, to bad so many misuse it.

I think the number of Kazaa download just tells us that there are more criminals than we think.

Re:Legal use?

[switched4OSX]

Don't worry. RIAA will by a couple key politicians and eventually get a law passed outlawing P2P for any purpose. I agree, this is too bad, P2P has many legal uses.

Re:Legal use?

[tankdilla]

I think the number of Kazaa download just tells us that there are more criminals than we think.

It can't be that wrong if everybody's doing it. Here's one way to look at it. If a million people say that a chair is not in the middle of the floor, but only one person says that it is, that person is wrong or considered crazy, regardless if there really is a chair there. Today, billions of people share files with kazaa, irc, and other programs. For the purpose of this argument, we'll say they think it's right or ok to do this. If a thousand people try to say it's wrong, the majority will just ignore them and think of them as wrong or crazy, regardless of the fact that it may really be wrong. So it's not a matter of there being more criminals than we think, it's just that majority rules.

Re:Legal use?

[dissy]

> I think the number of Kazaa download just tells us that there are more criminals
> than we think.

Why is that? Because alot of people are doing it?

You do realize right that the only reason pirating is(was?) concidered wrong is because the majority decided it was wrong.

Now the majority seems to be deciding its not all that wrong after all, so by the exact same way it became wrong it is now becoming OK.

Since at one point it became 'law' to match the wrong, in the same exact way, soon (relitivly soon, but garenteed before 100 years) the law will be changed to match what the majority feels is right.

If the minority that is artists want any form of protection in the future, they better start compromising before the majority just speaks for them.

Re:Legal use?

[Anonymous Coward]

I understand your point, but where'd you get those numbers. Considering there are a bit over 6 billion people on the planet I doubt billions are sharing file and I'm sure more than a thousand think that it is wrong to pirate music, movies, etc.

Sampling

[Mattygfunk1]

229,150,955 times

Considering that Kazaa does very little advertising, a large amount of this number probably represents people who have "sampled" the software at friend houses etc. and then got the program themselves.

Of course the same thing also happens with people that sample music before buing it.

Cheap web hosting web hosting

Re:Sampling

[spectral]

They may not do much advertising for themselves, but holy shit, they certainly DO do a lot of advertising.

Kazaa is less and less useful for me

[Anonymous Coward]

It's good to get music, app software, and short videos, like episodes of TV shows. But it seems that for movies and games, everything is incorrectly labeled there. I'm not sure if it's a deliberate effort by the industry (but if it is, why would they still give you copyrighted stuff, albeit under a incorrect name) or stunts by pre=pubescent low-lifes who raise their participation level falsely through this deceit.

Nah....

[tcak]

What about Macromedia Flash Player? As it runs on most web browsers, I believe that the number of downloads would be quite substantial, rivalling Kazaa. Consider the number of Flash-enabled sites out there.

How about free web browsers? MSIE? Mozilla? Opera? Programs installed via Windows Update? Quicktime Player?

Re:Nah....

[Phroggy]

What about Macromedia Flash Player? As it runs on most web browsers, I believe that the number of downloads would be quite substantial, rivalling Kazaa. Consider the number of Flash-enabled sites out there.

It comes pre-installed on Windows, Mac OS X, and probably some Linux distros - so not everyone who has it downloaded it.

Re:Nah....

[tcak]

It comes pre-installed on Windows, Mac OS X, and probably some Linux distros - so not everyone who has it downloaded it.

Not exactly. For example, a Flash 6 file requires Macromedia Flash 6 Player to work. I believe most OSes currently come with Flash 5 Player. In order to run the latest Flash files, the users have to go to the Macromedia website to download the latest Flash player.

Re:Nah....

[jez9999]

What the hell is a Flash-enabled site? Don't you mean Flash-REQUIRING sites?

Re:Nah....

[C32]

If you want to get technical, the most-downloaded "program" is probably the windows update activex component :)

Re:Nah....

[Paslophunk]

Yes, quicktime beats kazaa:

http://www.macdailynews.com/comments.php?id=P111 6_ 0_1_0_C

However, to MacDailyNews, 230 million downloads sounds small when you take a look at Apple's QuickTime. We're assuming that Kazaa Media Desktop has been through various versions and all of these various versions have been lumped together to reach the 230 million downloads figure Reuters mentions.

230 million is not enough downloads to set the download record, Kazaa. Looks like Kazaa forgot about a cross-platform behemoth that's been around for a long, long time:

In a press release dated, October 10, 2000, "Apple today announced that more than 100 million copies of its QuickTime 4 software have been distributed to Mac and Windows users worldwide."

In a November 28, 2001 press release, "Driven by the popularity of high-quality QuickTime content on popular web sites, one million copies of Apple's QuickTime 5 are being downloaded every three days. The rate of QuickTime 5 downloads has steadily increased since its launch in April, putting QuickTime 5 on track to exceed 100 million downloads in its first year of distribution. 'More than 300,000 people download QuickTime 5 to their Macs and PCs every day,' said Philip Schiller, Apple?s vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing."

"QuickTime 5 was downloaded over 100 million times by both Windows and Mac customers in its first year. Every day, more than 300,000 people download QuickTime..."

And, most recently, in a press release dated, October 15, 2002, "Apple today announced that more than 25 million copies of QuickTime 6 have been downloaded in less than 100 days... More than 126 million users downloaded the QuickTime Player via the Internet in the last year..."

If you think about it, do the math, and use a little bit of common sense, 230 million doesn't sound like much now, does it?

That 229M number is pointless

[stud9920]

Thousands of people use kazaalite, which is downloaded from dubious (as in more dubious than download.com) websites

Thousands more use kazaa to download kazaa.

Kazaa Lite?

[tankdilla]

They should also check with the folks at Kazaa Lite, the Kazaa version without all those ads. Including this version they've probably already passed ICQ. Unless of course they already accounted for the lite version.

Re:Kazaa Lite?

[C.Maggard]

I doubt they would acknowledge the lite version; since it's hacked to remove spyware and ads, they get no revenue from it, so why let people know about it?

Re:Kazaa Lite?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, run ad-aware or spybot s&d, install Kazaa Lite, then run a-a/ss&d again. There's still plenty of spycrap in there. Just because they say there's no spycrap doesn't mean there isn't any.

Re:Kazaa Lite?

[Lord_Dweomer]

" They should also check with the folks at Kazaa Lite, the Kazaa version without all those ads."

Maybe I'm just using an old version of kazaalite or something.....but I still get popups when using it. Last I checked, kazaalite still spits ads at you. It does take out the spyware however.

Punishment

[malia8888]

IMHO the poor souls who download Kazaa will find they may have brought something upon themselves they didn't expect. A few of our computer repair customers have shared files using this medium and their machine performance has gone to pure garbage. Kazaa lite is supposed to not have spyware--a hack of the original--per a google search. Kazaa claims they don't salt in spyware; however, our experience refutes that.

Further, it is rumored that viruses or worms can be transmitted via sound files on Kazaa. I can't prove this in my humble capacity as a repairman. However, I would feel subjecting my computer to their site would be like sending the poor machine to a cyber orgy without condoms

Re:Punishment

[Pingular]

If you knew anything about kazaa lite you'd know that it includes a Cydoor registry key which isn't spyware, so you can connect to the network.

Re:Punishment

[Billly Gates]

"Further, it is rumored that viruses or worms can be transmitted via sound files on Kazaa"

That is true. There are numerious buffer overflows within mpeg itself. With Windowsw2k unpatched I have clicked on porn only to have hidden code in the mpeg launch IE and god knows what. Most of it just directs me to their site full of full screen pop-ups that are impossible to close. Annoying and plain obnoxious. It is by the same porm spammer who hides the same advertisements for his site. I think his site is www.firstime.com. I do not remember. Do not go there unless you want 10 full screen pop-ups that even alt+f4 will not close thanks to nasty javascripts.

Anyway my machine got hacked as well. It connected to port 666 which is irc doing god knows what. My guess is from the mpegs because I have a firewall.

Anyway if your doing a new pc installation always patch WIndows first, before proceeding to anything else. This is common sense but I had no idea how insecure windows was until I saw this first hand. I do not believe slashdot antiMS hype. My old man without a firewall got hacked with 20 minutes after he got his dsl. He ran outlook unpatched. Amazing!

I had to reformat my drive and start over after the kazaa-lite fiasco just to get rid of the virii. I am too cheap for an anti-virus checker.

With Windows2k and media player fully patched the same mpegs do not launch IE or any extra code. My guess is the website owner used the buffer overflow to zombie my machine and direct my to his website hoping I would pay money for his lousy crap.

Re:Punishment

[Anonymous Coward]

Try this free antivirus program on for size. It works for me.
Here...

Re:Punishment

[mattrix2k]

I am too cheap for an anti-virus checker
There is a (legal) free virus scanner.

Re:Punishment

[warmcat]

That is true. There are numerious buffer overflows within mpeg itself

MPEG itself is a committee... but its true, no doubt there are exploitable problems in the various codecs.

With Windowsw2k unpatched I have clicked on porn only to have hidden code in the mpeg launch IE and god knows what

More likely it was simply a mislabelled .asf or .wmv, which, thanks to Microsoft's forward-looking concern for delivering what the consumer wants, are designed to be able to spawn browser windows (containing whatever). WMP will accept a mislabelled .asf or .wmv and play it anyway, spawning said browser windows from what you thought was a .mpg.

Re:Punishment

[Realistic_Dragon]

There are numerious buffer overflows within mpeg itself
<br><br>
<b>MPEG itself is a committee.</b>
<br><br>
They really should look at getting a better company to cater for their working lunches.

Re:Punishment

[hughk]

The free version will not operate in a networked environment. This kind of sucks if you have a home LAN.

Re:Punishment

[laptop006]

Strangely enough it's working on a Win2k box at work that does a domain login...

Re:Punishment

[hughk]

They give dire warnings that this is a neutered version (and not for use on a non-private system). I only have one 2K box left and I use Trend's housecall every so often.

I junked Norton and Mcaffee after I saw hoe much they took in resources. My old 500MHz machines weren't big enough. Now all but one is running Linux.

What?

[Dusabre]

What are you talking about?

Kazaa is distributed free. It is not being pirated. So why are you talking about software being pirated and companies wanting it to be pirated?

Do you know what Kazaa is?

And do you know what kind of laws countries have against piracy? Or know the international IP conventions?

Re:What?

[Phroggy]

Kazaa is distributed free. It is not being pirated. So why are you talking about software being pirated and companies wanting it to be pirated?

He's talking about people using Kazaa to download pirated software such as Photoshop. If people couldn't download Photoshop with Kazaa, they might use The Gimp instead, which would be bad for Adobe, because some of those people who pirate Photoshop at home wind up buying it at work. If they used The Gimp for free at home, maybe they'd use The Gimp at work too.

(Yes, I know, The Gimp isn't as good as Photoshop and is completely unacceptable to some, but it may be good enough for most people.)

Re:What?

[Ringlord]

He meant using Kazaa to pirate other software. It's a great tool for getting the latest games and productivity software for free.

Sure there are laws againts piracy, but a lot of people just don't give a f**k. Using Kazaa or other P2P to get software, mp3, and films is so easy you don't think about it!

Re:What?

[Goldberg's Pants]

Gimp is BETTER than Photoshop in many ways. Photoshop, like MS Word, has a bunch of useless stuff that 95% of users will never use. Gimp is a perfectly viable alternative. I use both, though prefer Gimp. To do something I did in Gimp today in around 10 seconds would have taken probably 5 minutes in Photoshop, and THEN would have required additional plugins. (Long story. Involved plasma generation.)

Those that think Gimp is unacceptable are most likely dismissing it with the "free, ergo it must be crap" equation.

Re:What?

[radish]

Do people really use Kazzaa for warez? Wow. I guess I'm behind the times...

Re:What?

[valisk]

For me its as simple as this,

If I were to download Photoshop with Kazaa, spend time learning how to use it, and enhancing my job prospects I would quite likely end up joining a company who would buy a Photoshop license for me to use. So my Piracy would have directly resulted in economic gain for Adobe, why the hell they should be bothered about the everyday Joe dling it I don't know.

I agree with you about Gimp, it's good but Photoshop is better and it's nic eto know that Codeweavers have made some updates in crossover so that Photoshop can now be run without having to buy a windoze license.

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Free doesn't necessarily equal good, either. What's cheaper, hiring a graphic artist who knows Photoshop well and training him to use Gimp so you don't have to buy one Adobe release every once in a while, or buying Photoshop and letting him get on with his work? Photoshop is a fine program that can take you from start to finish, anytime. If you need complex curves, you can call in Illustrator. If you want to do document work, Framemaker fits in with both beautifully. They're all solidly written, have all the important bits, and they make sense to everyone. That's what's cheap, guy, not your "free" software.

As for other details, like how fast you were able to generate the kind of plasma you wanted, doesn't your first sentence say Photoshop has too much stuff most people will never use? This sounds like a very biased view of what should be in an image app. "Well, it shouldn't have all that stuff, but it ought to be able to do the task I wanted to do today without a plug-in."

Re:What?

[danheskett]

If you need CYMK support, then what about the GIMP?

Dont need to be rude, but basically:

Those last 10% of features attract a big portion of the user base.. its not hard to make a word-processor to do basic stuff.. but it is hard to create a well-rounded feature complete app (aka, full-formatting, image manip, revision control, font-embedding, rich-linking, integration with live data-sources, accurate printing, useful help, seperation of content/style). This may seem trivial, but for lots of users - like myself - ANYONE of those features being missing is a deal stopper. It doesn't matter how well it does those other things, if it doesn't do each of those items, well then, its no good to me.

The exact same thing goes for GIMP. It doesn't matter how free, great, fast, etc etc it is. If it doesn't do CYMK, that's a deal breaker!

hmmmm..

[marcushnk]

I wonder if this is in part due to the programs like trillian and the like that to the same job as ICQ but don't "rate" as a ICQ program download... watering down the poll?

Re:hmmmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

No, its due to the fact that the only people who use icq these days are spammers.

Madonna

[pchown]

I thought Madonna MP3s had the most downloads... Oh, most downloaded program, right.

Re:Madonna

[Qender]

If it were up to her, madonna mp3's would be programs.

user: "Uh, why is this madonna song cursing at me and erasing my hard drive?"

Not True any more! Try MLdonkey!

[Anonymous Coward]

MLDonkey did just recently (as of version 2.5) get FastTrack/Kazaa support! Rejoice :)
MLdonkey is a very fine program, opensource+free (libre+beer) and gives you access to every major P2P network on every major OS. Give it a try.

Re:Not True any more! Try MLdonkey!

[Jugalator]

Interesting :)

Btw, in related multi-network client news, the Shareaza team is working on support for the eDonkey network.

Perhaps this is a trend -- joining forces against RIAA :)

Re:Not True any more! Try MLdonkey!

[Lev_Arris]

It's still lacking WinMX (speaking of 'popular' P2P networks) but apart from that I like it very much. Been using it since v2.01 and it's one of the stablest ed2k clients that I know of under Linux (unlike the official client).

Re:Not True any more! Try MLdonkey!

[n3k5]

Btw, in related multi-network client news, the Shareaza team is working on support for the eDonkey network.

This is nice, I've waited for a development like that for years, it's about time it finally happens. However, it would be _really_ great news if the no-spyware, no-nagware, no-bullshit eMule would support the Shareaza network. And Gnutella.

In other breaking news!

[Stubtify]

Its now tuesday! Congrats guys.

Informative Link

[Anonymous Coward]

Reuters has more details.

Re:Informative Link

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the same link as in the summary, you idiot moderator.

martha says

[djupedal]

Program: n. (UK programme) 1 a planned series of future events or actions. 2 a sheet giving details about a play, concert etc. 3 a radio, television or internet broadcast. 4 (program) a series of software instructions for a computer.

movie: n. US a cinema film

Re:martha says

[n3k5]

3 a radio, television or internet broadcast.

Kazaa's golden days followed by Kazaa Lite's rise

[xombo]

Even though Kazaa may be in the last stretch before it loses its following because of spyware and the like, the off-shoot Kazaa Lite seems to be going strong and has a much better potential for taking Kazaa's place. Granted Kazaa in closed source and contains worms and spyware but Kazaa Lite being free of all that seems to be in the right niche to move in.

well...

[mraymer]

That's nice and all, but isn't the number of connected users far more important than the number of downloads? I mean, the more users, the more files... and the more files, the more useful kazaa is to its users.

The last time I checked, there were about 3 million users connected.

Why is this number so much lower? Obviously people in different time zones probably sign on at different times, but even considering that, the number seems low when compared to what download.com is reporting.

Is this a sign that perhaps a lot of people have trouble getting kazaa to work (firewalls, schools/ISPs blocking it, etc)?

Re:well...

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason u inly see that many connected users is because that only takes into account the users connected to ur current node, there are many other nodes, with similar amounts of users connected.

Re:well...

[ahoehn]

For those of us who have to pay per-gb for our interweb traffic, we can't really leave our file sharing apps on all the time. True, it makes us leeches, but until I can find a better provider, there's not too much I can do.

what about multi p2p programs ?

[chrispy666]

mldonkey supports edonkey, bittorent, kazaa, overnet, napster, and probably other protocols that I forget, in one single program, that runs from the command line, on many platforms (linux x86, osx, bsd, even win32 !) as for GUI, you have a pletora of frontends. While this might not be a new p2p system, it's by far the most convenient way to download stuff from many different sources... mldonkeyworld

Re:what about multi p2p programs ?

[lobsterturd]

On http://www.nongnu.org/mldonkey/

mldonkey currently supports eDonkey2000, BitTorrent, FastTrack (Kazaa), Overnet, Gnutella, Gnutella2 (Shareaza), Soulseek, Direct-Connect and Opennap.

I wonder...

[Pingular]

if they included the kazaa lite downloads in that number?

OSS and Windows

[cjsnell]

But, you see, OSS for Windows is catching on! Some of the most popular programs on Sourceforge are win32. Everything that you need for spyware-free commercial-free RIAA-free music and video sharing is available there, on sf.net. Here's a sampling:

CDEX - a great MP3 ripper. Use with LAME for great, free rips.

eMule and DC++ - very popular P2P clients

BitTorrent - For large file sharing (movies, etc)

VirtualDub - for video format conversion (DiVX, VCD, etc)

Audacity - multi-track audio editor

I could go on and on. Look at this list and all the win32 apps there.

Re:OSS and Windows

[shri]

Bittorrent?? I cant figure out how the heck to make it work (actually cant be bothered once I look at the instructions).

Here's the deal. I use Kazaa to download and watch episodes of Friends, West Wing and about 3 or 4 other TV shows which are not easily available here in Hong Kong. I've heard great things about bittorrent but their website and instructions turn me off. Their windows FAQ mentions setting up mime types in webservers and other stuff, which I really don't want to do.

Until things get point and click easy with some of the software you've mentioned, I'm unlikely to use them.

On an offtopic note, I've written to various TV networks in the US, stating that I'd be willing to pay a dollar or two per episode, if they allowed me to download it from their website or through some secure file sharing application. I don't care if its a time limited / DRM protected thingy. I don't care if they have adverts in the download (figure if people are paying for the download some companies would be able to target ads into those downloads).

No responses at all.

Re:OSS and Windows

[Frac]

eMule and DC++ - very popular P2P clients

And you just proved the parent poster's point - they too are used to download copyrighted files. (Oh please, you know that's true)

Re:OSS and Windows

[sn0wcrash]

Friends??? You're going to the effort of stealing to download Friends! If your gonna commit a crime.. it ought to be one worth commiting!

Re:OSS and Windows

[1u3hr]

I use Kazaa to download and watch episodes of Friends, West Wing and about 3 or 4 other TV shows which are not easily available here in Hong Kong.

??? In Hong Kong this week on TVB, Friends is on Sunday 8pm, West Wing Thursday, 10:30 pm; though both run almost a year later than their US showings. Of course, there's a lot of stuff that isn't -- the last series of B5, Buffie, Third Rock, ... not to mention hardly any UK stuff, aside from David Attenborough documentaries. But since you can get bootleg DVDs from Shenzhen for HK$6 of any recent movie, the trade off isn't bad.

Re:OSS and Windows

[mrscorpio]

The Bit Torrent install/use in Windows in easy. It's a bit harder in Linux, and serving is kind of a bitch all around.

Check out this page for instructions on use:

http://www.sidewalkcrusaders.com/bthowto/btstart .h tml#THIRDSTEP

Chris

Re:OSS and Windows

[n3k5]

Bittorrent?? I cant figure out how the heck to make it work (actually cant be bothered once I look at the instructions).

Well, you just install it, which requires two clicks (sadly, it doesn't ask where you want to put it). Then, whenever you see a link on the web, saying something like 'here's matrix reloaded over bittorrent', you click it, enter the destination for the file, and wait for a while. There's your file! There's not much to figure out at all. Those instructions must be _really_ bad -- you wouldn't really need them, but once you read them, you think it's too complicated, wow.

Until things get point and click easy with some of the software you've mentioned, I'm unlikely to use them.

But it is!

Oh, wait a moment, maybe you read the instructions on how to _publish_ content via BitTorrent? Well, okay, that might be a bit more complicated, haven't checked that out yet. But only original content publishers are supposed to do bother with that. You just download the files, and share the same files automatically until you terminate the client. You don't use it to share your MP3 collection, that's just not what it's intended for, not at all.

Re:OSS and Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Bittorrent?? I cant figure out how the heck to make it work (actually cant be bothered once I look at the instructions).

Here's the deal. I use Kazaa to download and watch episodes of Friends

Until things get point and click easy with some of the software you've mentioned, I'm unlikely to use them.

I see the problem.. you're a Windows using girl! And so far all of the software mentioned in this thread is 'point and click' easy, with BT being probably the easiest.

Re:OSS and Windows

[shri]

Yeah, but we're watching the current season. :) Also, been watching the current season of The Sheild, 24 etc...

Re:OSS and Windows

[Surak]

Yeah. That's like holding up a bank and demanding all their Burger King wrappers with the cheese still on them! ;)

Re:OSS and Windows

[epsalon]

The Bit Torrent install/use in Windows in easy. It's a bit harder in Linux

My experience is the other way around. Under linux, I just extracted the archive, guessed I need to run btdownloadheadless.py and ran it with a --url parameter.

Under windows, there was an installer which told me BT was "successfully installed". Then I had to look for it and finally find it in "D:\Program Files". There, I found only "btdownloadgui.exe", and no matter what params I tried (after reading the command line options from the output of btdownloadheadless.py, couldn't manage to make it read one stupid .torrent file and download it.

After that exerience, I didn't even try to serve.

Re:OSS and Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, dumbass, to download a torrent file in Windows all you need to do is double click it.

Re:OSS and Windows

[eht]

Serving uses exactly the same program as downloading, the only difference is that when you serve you have to make the hash file yourself and publish it somewhere, then take the hash file and run it against the program, just like you would if you had downloaded it from scarywater, and it starts serving. The process is the same whether under windows or linux.

Re:OSS and Windows

[mrscorpio]

All you do is install it. You don't need to fire up a program to use it, unless you have to do it the "old-fashioned way" and use CLI.

You download a "file.ext.torrent" from the net (after install), double-click on it, and it automatically calls on the program.

Chris

Re:OSS and Windows

[epsalon]

You download a "file.ext.torrent" from the net (after install), double-click on it, and it automatically calls on the program.
No, it doesn't. The stupid installer doesn't associate .torrent files with anything, and if I try to associate .torrent files with the btdownloadgui.exe program it gives me "err: too many args".

Re:OSS and Windows

[Mr. McGibby]

The stupid installer doesn't associate .torrent files with anything

Yes it does. I don't what your problem is, but since it's worked for millions of other users, maybe you should fix your box.

Are you trolling?

Re:OSS and Windows

[WasteOfAmmo]

Ok, this is a question I get hit with all the time that I no longer have a good answer for (kazaalite was the answer but now it raises flags with the second last point mentioned below due to recent stories about people getting hit with court cases): out of the above list + kazaa, kazaalite, and any other p2p type software you can think of, which would you recommend to your teenage aquaintences (or parents with teenagers)? Take the following into account:

• windows OS
• most of the targetted teenagers are NOT geeks and are in high-school
• most of them are installing it on their parents or friends parents machine
• the parents are typically not system administrators and don't want to be and in fact probably less computer literate then their kids
• the machines are considered "mission critical" to the parents, ie: used for bank transactions, book keeping, taxes, etc.
• obviously no adware/spyware/crap is the goal
• reduced concerns about central servers tracking all connections, etc.
• ignoring the legality/morality of file sharing (subject already covered and target of a different thread and "your not going to change the average high-schoolers mind anyway" :) )

I have removed so much spyware/adware from friends/families/co-workers machines due to their kids installing p2p clients that it is ridiculus. The parents typically only care that their machine stays stable and usable and the kids want to continue sharing with their friends.

Yes they should all install linux, a firewall, get a seperate machine for their kids to "play with", not use the internet for financial transactions, and ever other alternative suggestion you can come up with. But this does not change the fact that the "norm" for many of the targetted user does not fit these types of suggestions. I'm looking for a solution for the targetted users as is, not a solution that requires a good dose of "geekness" being injected into the users.

Merlin.

Re:OSS and Windows

[ncc74656]

Under windows, there was an installer which told me BT was "successfully installed". Then I had to look for it and finally find it in "D:\Program Files". There, I found only "btdownloadgui.exe", and no matter what params I tried (after reading the command line options from the output of btdownloadheadless.py, couldn't manage to make it read one stupid .torrent file and download it.

After installing the client, the first .torrent link I clicked in Mozilla popped up BitTorrent. It asked for a download directory, ground away for a bit, and then started downloading. It was a bit slow at first, but it's running 15-20 kbps downstream (occasionally more) and 10-12 kbps upstream now.

The tricky part is finding .torrents. Once you have one, though, it works well enough.

Re:OSS and Windows

[mrscorpio]

Again, I'm talking Windows. If you have any problems installing and using Bit Torrent on Windows, maybe you need to format/reinstall because it couldn't possibly be simpler...

Chris

Re:OSS and Windows

[epsalon]

Maybe the problem is that I don't have admin privs on the machine, and the installer doesn't check for errors when trying to associate the file, and does not associate the file in HKEY_CURRENT_USER as appropriate.

Anyway, the documentation does not explain how to manually activate a .torrent file under windows if association fails.

Re:OSS and Windows

[Com2Kid]

• Maybe the problem is that I don't have admin privs on the machine,

You are on a Windows box, how hard can Admin be to get? *G*

It does check for SOME permissions, but not all of the ones that it should.

Err, hey wait a minute, where exactly are you at that you are installing p2p applications but don't have admin privileges? Naughty naughty boy. :-P (or if it is your own computer, log on as admin, duh!)

But don't blame BT that the box is locked down too tight.

Re:OSS and Windows

[epsalon]

P2P is not inhelently evil. In fact, I wanted to quickly download a linux distro to reinstall the machine.

Re:OSS and Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that's what I told my admin when they came up wondering why I did 4 Gig overnight. "Linux ISOs"!

In related news...

[arvindn]

In related news, an RIAA spokesperson has announced that they will be filing suit against Sharman Networks Ltd. for contributory infringement over the Kazaa filesharing program. The damages are being calculated based on RIAA's estimates that each user downloaded 1000 songs using the Kazaa network, valued at $150,000 per song, and download.com's figures of 229,150,955 downloads for the program. The spokesperson refused to comment on the total damages sought, but Detroit Free Press columnist Heather Newman has estimated the amount to $34,350,000,000,000,000, or 34 million billion dollars, which, she assures us, is enough to buy all the music CDs every produced in the galaxy since the big bang several thousand times over.

RIAA senior vice president for business and legal affairs Matthew Oppenheim has said: "Stealing is stealing. Piracy contributes to terrorism and eats away from the profits of the music industry, driving up costs for everyone." Industry analysts worry that in the future, software makers will not be the sole target of the behemoth's notoriously aggressive copyright defenses. Some have speculated that vendors of popular operating systems on which these software run may be next, and that hardware manufacturers may not be far behind. One of our anonymous correspondents wondered: "what happens if they decide to outlaw the internet?"

That's nothing!

[Ringlord]

Danni Ashe is the most downloaded woman in the world!

Re:That's nothing!

[Anonymous Coward]

mod up!

Re:Kazaa's golden days followed by Kazaa Lite's ri

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot something, Kazaa is a closed source network so if Kazza dies Kazaa Lite wont exist.

What about windows ?

[theefer]

I'd have thought windows would be the most downloaded program (in order to make Kazaa work for instance) ...

Re:What about windows ?

[noselasd]

Windows is not downloaded, unless you mean through warez channels.
And I pretty sure event that doesn't stick up against these numbers.

Re:What about windows ?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, because in order to download windows, you need kazaa first

Re:What about windows ?

[Anonymous Coward]

for those kids out there who havent experienced life without broadband: back in the day, we used to buy our software from a store, much like you do with groceries etc these days. There are still some stores out there that sell software aswell ...

A resounding success for Spyware

[sh0rtie]

As Kazaa comes bundled with multiple spyware programs this also gives you an idea of how many computers are infected with its programs, mind boggling really

remember Kazaa is just a vehicle for this software as their revenue model is based on the user installing it, i feel sorry for all the support desks that are going to have to deal with all the problems it brings and the security implications when someone/thing exploits it, imagine how many corporate systems are infected and the implications that could bring for security in the workplace now that other private companies have direct access to their data bypassing firewalls etc (by using http port 80 to communicate) i mean Windows isnt exactly the most secure system around but these applications have made this so much worse and it can only be a matter of time until someone develops a *nix port of spyware.

The sooner they are out of buisness the better for the user, but these numbers prove that it isnt going to happen unless virus companies decide to pull their fingers out and target these applications which are probably more destructive and intrusive than most viruses.

According to the virus scanner companies stance , if you release a worm,virus etc with an EULA you are exempt from detection and are free to extract any information you like from the users/hosts system for financial gain
(regardless of what laws exist to protect the users data in his/her country)

luckily a few good people have addressed this problem but as their software isn't as widely known as the big boys (Symantec,Mcafee,Sophos etc) and doesn't come bundled as standard by pc manufacters (as a lot of virus protection does) i fear this situation can only get worse until the users computer becomes an un-usable device

Re:A resounding success for Spyware

[jez9999]

Oh please, you are talking bollocks. Of course 'spyware' should NOT be labelled as a fucking virus - it ISN'T one. There's a big, big difference between something written to discreetely fuck up a user's system, and something written to gain information about the user, that *informs the user that it's being installed*. You seem like a troll to me, but I fear you may be genuine. Please, learn the difference between so-called 'spyware' and a virus.

Re:A resounding success for Spyware

[glesga_kiss]

Nonsense. I run a virus scanner to keep malicious code off my machine. Spyware is malicious to anyone that regards privacy as important.

The EULA for the spyware (mentioned in the host software) buries the notice to the user under a wealth of legal jargon, in a form that people are used to ignoring and clicking-thru already. If they wanted to honestly inform the user, there would be a dialog box with "Warning: this software is funded through the installation of other software that will be installed on your machine, which is used to gather marketing data on you".

Some of the other distinctions are also not so clear. Trojan software utilises your machine to "do their bidding". There is little distinction between trojans that run DoS attacks or distributed computing (BDE), the fact is that you have secreted software onto my machine, that uses my storage space, my bandwidth and my cycles to work for someone else that I have no knowledge of. That's a lot of trust for someone you haven't met; sure!! They can run any code they like on each machine!! Remember, these bots are essentially running as root here. Would you allow a closed-source daemon from a source with dubious ethics on your *nix box? Didn't think so.

If any of the major anti-virus manufacturers were to regard spyware as "not-self", then they'd find they have at least one new customer...me.

Re:A resounding success for Spyware

[ComradeX13]

I can think of a few pieces of software that did pretty much no damage, and yet were labeled as virii because they were spread without user's consent/knowledge.

As far as covert installation and spreading: A lot of spyware takes this route. I can think of many, many instances where spyware was installed with a program without any notification of the user, and I have a hard time thinking of any spyware-ridden product that came right out and said it contained such.

In terms of function I've seen spyware that by any other name would be a trojan. Browsers hijacked, unwanted popups, hosed registries, etc etc. I've run into far more instances of Windows installations being hosed because of spyware than virii- most people have a virus scanner installed, or at least know of them; it's pretty rare to find an average user who's even heard of AdAware/Spybot/etc.

It's the bane of modern [windows] computing. In the past month I've removed 3 viruses from user's computers (one major infection), and many thousands of instances of spyware programs/scripts. The average per user's computer is around five hundred, and believe me, it's a noticable difference in performance before and afterwards.

Re:A resounding success for Spyware

[jez9999]

But keep this in perspective. See, what I can't understand about you types is that you get all defensive about not allowing spyware on your machine, software which gathers, as you say, marketing data on you - something which, in the end, is harmless, and perhaps even helpful in targetting ads at you (yes, yes I know, you block them, you freeloader).

And yet *nearly every major Western government* is, at this time, introducing new legislation that allows them to view *every packet you send and receive* in the laughable name of 'counter-terrorism', yet you do nothing to practically stop it, just wring your hands and say that it sucks. You really ought to be rebelling against the oppressive government, slaughtering them for NOT respecting your right to being democratically represented, be you American, British, Australian, any other European, whatever. I'm serious. But you'll probably just laugh at me, and wring your hands, as usual.

Re:A resounding success for Spyware

[glesga_kiss]

what I can't understand about you types is that you get all defensive about not allowing spyware on your machine

My personal data is my personal data. I should have the last word in what is done with it. By allowing spyware, you are giving someone complete trusted access to your machine. That is a plain and simple security breach. What's the point in firewalls when you allow anything client-side to run, with all manner of undocumented and likely encrypted dial-home connections?

I am not willing to give this level of trust to any company I don't know, let alone one that already does underhand things to get their software onto my machine.

No, I don't block ads either

introducing new legislation that allows them to view *every packet you send and receive* in the laughable name of 'counter-terrorism', yet you do nothing to practically stop it

You don't know me. How can you make jackass statements like that? I make more people aware of these issues that you ever have. I inform people of things like SmoothWall and FreeSWAN to counter these measures all the time (not just online). I'm about as outspoken as they come on all these (and related issues).

You're preaching an irrelevant arguement to the already converted choir. Your point may have had some relevance at some time, but you lost it with the rant.

Abolish the UK TV licence fee!

On the surface yes, I want to pay X less pounds on it each year. Then when you look at the standard of the BBC verses every other network in the world, including all it's TV, radio, web, community and educational content with no advertisments on any, then you realise that we are damn lucky to have it. Nothing comes close anywhere else.

Re:A resounding success for Spyware

[jez9999]

I am not willing to give this level of trust to any company I don't know, let alone one that already does underhand things to get their software onto my machine.

Fine, don't install Kazaa then. I was just making the point that comparing it to a virus is stupid, because at least Kazaa tells you what it is installing (don't read terms and conditions? Tough shit. Would you sign a contract without reading it?), and uninstalls it when you uninstall the program. Viruses, OTOH, don't tell you they're being installed, and don't like to be uninstalled.

You don't know me. How can you make jackass statements like that? I make more people aware of these issues that you ever have.

I can quite easily make jackass statements like that, because I know you haven't done enough to stop the legislation. Nobody has. It's not a criticism, it's just trying to put spyware into perspective, and the way I see it, it's very insignificant. You could find yourself emptying out the rowboat only to be destroyed by the 50 foot wave.

On the surface yes, I want to pay X less pounds on it each year. Then when you look at the standard of the BBC verses every other network in the world, including all it's TV, radio, web, community and educational content with no advertisments on any, then you realise that we are damn lucky to have it. Nothing comes close anywhere else.

Bollocks. The BBC sucks. I hate nearly every TV program they put out, and when I had Sky, watched nearly no BBC programmes and mostly other channels. That's the thing about programming - it's subjective, and some people will love what others hate. That's why you should be allowed to *choose* what you pay to watch. If the BBC's programmes are so fantastic, then logically huge numbers of people would pay to see them, no?

Re:A resounding success for Spyware

[glesga_kiss]

Fine, don't install Kazaa then.

Don't confuse the issue with p2p and all it's questionable aspects. The same spyware gets installed with many other "free" programs, most of which are 100% legal and many in common use. Tools that were properly free (beer) only a few years ago I might add. Also, if you browse the web with an unpatched browser, you'll get it installed on your PC at some point via the loop holes. I had it happen on this computer not too long ago.

don't read terms and conditions? Tough shit.

Yet another contensious issue, EULA agreements. Frankly, I think there should be laws against the deliberate obsucation of this and other surprises in EULA click-throughs. It's plain to see that most users do not read these. They also have a very questionable legal status, to my knowledge there have been no landmark cases involving terms and conditions, so it's not even certain that they are legally binding.

uninstalls it when you uninstall the program

Most of them don't do this. The removal of some of the nastier ones is very reminissant of virus removal. Morphing file names etc.

If the BBC's programmes are so fantastic, then logically huge numbers of people would pay to see them, no?

OK, I hear your argument, and I agree with you in many terms. However, there are advantages to making the fee mandatory. A lot of stuff on the BBC is special interest, most of which I'm sure both of us are completely unaware of. BBC radio will play genres of music that purely commercial stations could not touch. Due to the numbers of people in the groups, there simply isn't profit to be made.

It's a cultural thing. I do believe that the BBC adds greatly to the UK culture. Many famous people/shows have started their careers via shows that would have never been made by the likes of Sky. Commercial television caters for the "UKs greatest car crashes" market; where programmming can be enjoyed by a very wide viewing spectrum.

I'd rather live in a country where we have a massive choice of media available, made possible by the BBCs funding mechanism. Sure, it costs a little, but how much does each of us pay in other taxes towards warfare and the coffers of big business? Rowboats and waves, as you mention yourself.

The BBC also sets a high-bar for the other channels to aspire to. Ever watched TV in the USA? Ouch, the volume and frequency of advertising is obscene, UK viewers would never stand for that in contrast to the commercial free BBC.

Re:A resounding success for Spyware

[jez9999]

Don't confuse the issue with p2p and all it's questionable aspects.

The issue that was first raised in the thread was that Kazaa was bad because of its spyware. I was relating it to that.

However, there are advantages to making the fee mandatory. A lot of stuff on the BBC is special interest, most of which I'm sure both of us are completely unaware of. BBC radio will play genres of music that purely commercial stations could not touch.

Like Radio 1. Most commercial stations wouldn't touch what they play, because it's shit. Plain and simple. The music is shit, and most of their DJs are utterly amateurish. It should be taken off the air, but instead we're forced to fund it!

Due to the numbers of people in the groups, there simply isn't profit to be made.

My view is that if that is the case, then it really IS questionable whether it should be being made. You're talking about media which is not just usually avoided by commercial channels, but which *doesn't appeal to many people*. Please explain to me why the masses should be forced to pay for its production? At least the NHS serves most people in the UK. Ditto the roads.

Commercial television caters for the "UKs greatest car crashes" market; where programmming can be enjoyed by a very wide viewing spectrum.

That's not so true anymore; with the advent of hundreds of digital channels, there are plenty of special interest channels out there. God channel, Discovery channel, History channel, music video channels, news channels, drama channels, cartoon channels, etc.

I'd rather live in a country where we have a massive choice of media available, made possible by the BBCs funding mechanism.

If anything, that mechanism reduces the choice of media available. It limits billions of pounds per year to the BBC's enterprises, when it could be being spent on companies that work more efficiently, and better serve people's interests.

Ever watched TV in the USA? Ouch, the volume and frequency of advertising is obscene, UK viewers would never stand for that in contrast to the commercial free BBC.

They wouldn't stand for it, so we don't need the BBC then do we? :-) Seriously, I think the amount of commercials in the USA has a lot more to do with US culture than commercial TV. I'm sure there are fewer commercials in other countries without public sector broadcasters, but people always choose the USA to compare against because it's a 'worst case' scenario.

No big migration to E*/Shareaza yet?

[gad_zuki!]

I was hoping by now, or at least the near future there would be a larger migration to software with open protocols like Emule or Shareaza using gnutella and whatever the edonkey protocol is called.

I've found Shareaza to be almost as good as kazaa in regards to variety, but slower on the download end because of either the lack of a decent userbase or the protocols still need tweaking.

I think we might be seeing, or already have seen, a big rift in content. RIAA/Mainstream stuff fills the Kazaa networks while less mainstream stuff is begining to appear on open protocol networks as people with a clue are migrating away from the spyware infested world of commercial P2P.

Got a popular file? Put up a magnet/gnutella/ed2k link somewhere and tell people to download a non-commercial client if they want access to the "good stuff." Sure, there's no accounting for taste, but a little effort could undermine and help produce a mass divestment from Kazaa and the Sherman networks.

Running Kazaa on your Linux box

[cerberusss]

Just a tip for people; I run Kazaa on my Linux box: I installed win95 with Kazaa in the Bochs virtual machine. I'm pretty sure it can't come out of the box :)

Re:Running Kazaa on your Linux box

[Anonymous Coward]

Kazaa Lite 2.0 ("Lite" is the ad-ware-free version, no f**king Bonzi-Buddy) runs under wine (20020804 running on a SuSE 8.1) without problems. Here is a tutorial on how to install. It's in german but straightforward enough to understand. The Google Translation is pretty good, but skips some non-vital parts...

Re:Running Kazaa on your Linux box

[Doomrat]

Is Bochs fast enough to do even that??

Re:Running Kazaa on your Linux box

[cerberusss]

Well, by coincidence I'm working on a pretty powerful box right now... Office runs OK too. But you're right, normally it's so slow it's almost unworkable. And the fact that the max resolution is 800x600x16 is a pain, too.

Bah! It takes a billion to be most d/l'ed woman...

[B747SP]

Danni Ashe claims to be the most downloaded woman with over a billion hits. Even if she's using those little American 'billions' (the ones you only need a thousand millions to make), that still leaves kazaa in the weeds at less than a third of her downloads.

scalability

[KingRamsis]

Kazaa is one of the most scalable software I ever seen, downloaded 229,150,955 times, assuming only 10% of the people are online at a time, that is 22 million online users searching its database... makes you wonder if their advertisment business can buy them all that bandwidth and equipment.

I would love to have a look at their p2p protocol, actually i think it should become an RFC.

Re:scalability

[Anonymous Coward]

assuming only 10% of the people are online at a time

If there are 22 million people using Kazaa at one time... I'll pay for all the software I got from it.

Re:scalability

[a8f11t18]

well.. the most thereve been on kazaa at one time is
probably close to 5 million. Usually, there are between
3.5 to 4.5 million online at the same time. i am a
european, and when I log in on the day, therere usually
around 3.5, but later in the evening/night the number
regularly rises to 4.5 (its when the US gets online)

Re:scalability

[blanne]

The point of (real) p2p is that you don't need a central server with massive amounts of bandwidth! YOUR computer is part of the Kazaa database, at least when you're running it...
The advertisement business is there to make money to pay the lawyers, and at least previously they had to supply some of the bandwidth to let users download the program.
However, you're right. Their p2p protocol is probably quite interesting, because it works without central servers (like gnutella, just more advanced).

Just checked

[Anonymous Coward]

I just checked then, and there were 3,281,730 people connected. And the other night there were 4 million. I guess a lot of people don't have broadband and can't leave it connected all the time. Unlike myself who leaves it running in the background.

It's not the common cold?

[jerryasher]

Most downloaded program?

We're talking viruses here, aren't we?

I'd say Rhinovirus. Sperm based genetic programming next. Readers of Snow Crash might suggest the Bible is a close third.

Or are you one of those 1980ish, ascii encoded representation bigots?

Old news...

[Kethinov]

That headline has been on my website for 4 days.

Re:Old news...

[jpmkm]

Who gives a fuck what is on your site? If you had it 4 days ago, why did you even click on it on slashdot? You dumb fucker.

Re:Old news...

[Kombat]

Hmm, yeah, I just checked out your website.


"I guarantee that if [the RIAA] try to pull this sh*t on us there will be a lot more retaliation against them than just a few DDoS attacks."


Uh, like what, Eric? What else can a bunch of globally-distrubuted hackers do? Are you threatening to physically harm Hillary Rosen and other staff of the RIAA? Are you suggesting that their homes and vehicles may/should be vandalized?

What, precisely, were you alluding to when you said "a lot more retaliation against them than just a few DDoS attacks"?


"I'll gladly release the dogs of war in defense of piracy."

Well, it's pretty obvious where you stand on things then. Clearly, you're still a child and don't yet make any actual money off of selling software, if you hold such an ignorant point of view. You openly admit that you will "defend piracy." Unbelievable.

The truth...

[root 66]

That's only because people have to redownload it as they keep trashing their windows systems with Kazaa and all the spyware and malware it brings despite all the junk that people will actually download.

Happy fortnighty format C: everyone.

p.s.: Ad-Aware helps, too.

Re:The truth...

[zakezuke]

The spyware didn't bother me so much... I'm pretty boring.. most of my e-mail is done under pine so pretty immune from software minning from my win box, I guess a miner program could find out what websites I visit, even those are pretty tame. Mostly hardware related stuff, the newspaper, and once and a while that porn popup from hell cause I do a typo on the address. My major complaint was that the spyware degraded system peformance to such an extent that the product I wanted in the first place was rendered unuseable. And what the hell is all this spam from brazil, and why am I getting gay canadian studs in my inbox?

Re:The truth...

[mrkurt]

On a more serious note, it is because of spyware, malware, and everything else it brings on that I do not have Kazaa on my machines and never will. I have a small biz client who wanted to get a popular CD burning program. She went to a local computer store and was advised by an employee there that she could download it on the Internet with Kazaa. When she told me this I warned her about Kazaa, and repeated the famous first dictum on free stuff: "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Needless to say, she bought the CD burning software, as she doesn't want her kids to be exposed to massive numbers of porn popup ads.

Maybe they should change the name to Metala-kaza

[Mr. Happy Flappy]

Wonder if there are any reliable statistics showing which is the most downloaded mp3..

Easy as pie

[Anonymous Coward]

Download the windows installer for bittorrent Run and install it. Then all you do is look for files that end in .torrent. Open them, and bittorrent will automatically open and start downloading. The infoAnarchy wiki points to some pages that contain .torrents. Also, search google for "torrent" or "bittorrent" for more sites.

Re:Yea.

[Dimensio]

For things like that, I resort to USENET. I honestly didn't expect HL for DC to have been leaked, since I would have expected it shortly after its cancellation, but I found it about two months ago.

stupid question

[mirko]

and how many times was Kazaa downloaded using Kazaa ?

The problem with gimp (was Re:What?)

[Anonymous Coward]

Is not really the gui, which is quite ok once you explain what the thought behind is. The problem is more the missing cymk support which makes it totally unacceptable for professional graphic artists and professional graphics design. At least over here in europe, if you give a picture to a printing company either it is cymk or it is rejected, and for a reason!

The missing cymk is the real problem behind a wide adoption of gimp, the rest is seconary. I'm pretty sure once that one is in the adoption of the program would be much wider than it is today.

Re:The problem with gimp (was Re:What?)

[JohnFluxx]

> I'm pretty sure once that one is in the adoption of the program would be much wider than it is today.

Well if you put it in, you'll be sued for violating patents.
So I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

Re:The problem with gimp (was Re:What?)

[Anonymous Coward]

It is there all right in the current devel versions.

Re:Yea.

[Goldberg's Pants]

Interesting timing. I was skimming an old "Game Pro" the other day and happened across the article about the DC version of HL being cancelled.

When a similarly completed game for the PSX was canned (Thrill Kill) it was leaked onto the net by pissed off developers.

Try Edonkey or Emule. It seems to have a pretty strong DC community.

Jesus this 2 minute posting rule sucks...

REALLY sucks...

Re:A message from Madonna

[el-spectre]

sigh...

Re:A message from Madonna

[Anonymous Coward]

This IS funny. Morons.

Still using LimeWire...

[IO ERROR]

....because the Kazaa installer craps out in WINE.

An error occurred while launching the setup. (0x8000ffff)

Among other errors in various other attempts. I guess you just can't install spyware in WINE.

Re:Still using LimeWire...

[Qender]

Stop your whining. Get it. wine.

oh never mind.

Re:Still using LimeWire...

[Doomrat]

http://frankscorner.org/kazaa_lite_2_0.html
http://frankscorner.org/kazaa_2_1.html

And what this really means is...

[hubbah]

That pr0n and warez are the most popular downloads on the internet. In fact, for every download of Kazaa, there are are thousands of pr0n and warez downloads.

And that tells you why people are clamoring for DSL and cable modems. Which, in turn, raises interesting questions about the market drivers of the broadband infrastructure in the US.

"Pr0n, Warez Leading Drivers of Consumer Broadband Market"

Now *that* would be an informative Reuters headline.

Re:And what this really means is...

[markogogo]

"Pr0n, Warez Leading Drivers of Consumer Broadband Market"

Now *that* would be an informative Reuters headline.

How about a story from theregister? Took me a while to find this, but...Broadband = porno: World's biggest Luddite

Quote from story: So there you have it. South Korea is the number one broadband nation thanks to porno.

You forgot free

[birdman666]

The article and the claim state that Kazaa is on track to become the most downloaded free software ever, not the most downloaded piece of software ever. I think Microsoft bug fixes have that base covered.

Re:You forgot free

[Anonymous Coward]

???
you must not know any MS sys-admins

or don't remember code red...

Re:Yea.

[Anonymous Coward]

Heres the Edonkey link:
ed2k://|file|half+life+dreamcast-dc.nrg|562939720| e794a5fca7fca4a43d9e64de2a5fcd39|/
complete NERO image, strip all spaces in that link coz /. adds some to beat the page wideners

note to ed

[mydigitalself]

should the subject not be "Kazaa sTays..." rather than "says".

Re:note to ed

[Anonymous Coward]

doubt it. get used to headline (ap?) style and form.

Re:What the fuck do you think you are doing?

[Zemran]

I don't have that one yet and it is the only MadPrimaDona track I want, what do I have to search for?

Wrong URL...

[jez9999]

(according to C|Net Download.com)

That's Download.com.com to you.

Nice

[Cackmobile]

When I first started using it, not long after Napster was taken away, there weren't many people on it. Now there are heaps and its good. Not as good as Napster though.

Re:Bah! It takes a billion to be most d/l'ed woman

[mrscorpio]

What is a billion if not a thousand million? Am I missing something here?

Chris

Re:Kazaa's golden days followed by Kazaa Lite's ri

[shepd]

>Kazaa is a closed source network so if Kazza dies Kazaa Lite wont exist.

No, it'll just be hacked to work with giFT.

Kazaa on track to most reported on program

[Anonymous Coward]

Slow news day?

Cheap CDs

[Landaras]

I recommend half.com. Yeah, it's owned by eBay, but you can get plenty of discs (used) really cheaply. I average paying four or five bucks a disc, which includes the $2.49 shipping charge. From one of my earlier posts...

I recently got into Tori Amos. (Regardless of how you feel about her music, you do have to admit she's talented and original.) I picked up her latest CD a few months ago because it had 70 minutes of music and it cost me $10 new. I found myself really liking it, and willing to look at her other work.

Now, I could go to Best Buy and drop over $100 picking up the major discs of her backcatalog (5 discs plus a 2 CD-set), or I could go to half.com and get the same discs (albeit used) shipped to me for a grand total less than $30. As long as I can get a decent rip off the used discs, I don't care about their condition.

Re:Cheap CDs

[Anonymous Coward]

Do the record companies or artists see a dime from half.com?

No? Ohh that's what I thought. You may as well be downloading them from Kazaa. You are only helping half.com (and indirectly the people that originally bought or stole the cds then sold them to half) by buying used cds... but if it helps you sleep at night... more power to ya.

If the record companies really wanted to help themselves, they will change the EULA for CDS to only grant the original purchaser the right to listen to it(cheek bulging from tongue).

Outlaw speakers, radios, and headphone distribution amplifiers and their evil plan will be complete. Only one person will be able to listen music originating from a given cd at the same time. Of course no one will know what to buy, so won't buy anything, but piracy will be dead.

Parties would be less interesting, but at least the artist would get their $.06 per listener.

I think we should all ignore corporate music, stop buying and downloading cds altogether, and start supporting your local garage band.

l8,
AC

Why oh Why people.

[boogy nightmare]

Why are they downloading kazaa for, this is the worst peice of software ever, the amount of spyware, pop up software and underlying P2P stuff that you cant control is terrible..

Be a geek and get control and use kazaa lite instead, its smaller, also free and if memory serves you can get that from download.com as well.

This is what i use and i much prefer it.

New morpheus

[oliverthered]

There's a new morpheus client comming out soon. (since they won the court case).
Hopefully it will force the Kazaa client to mature a bit.

Re:Bah! It takes a billion to be most d/l'ed woman

[Anonymous Coward]

The old british billion was a million million.

RIAA$ MS$??

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets see...
229,150,955 users, each one owing the RIAA $27 Billion dollars... Twice that if they're using a really fast CD-R...

Wow, RIAA now owns slashdot.

Re:Bah! It takes a billion to be most d/l'ed woman

[Nick Harkin]

It can also be a million million.

1000 thousands is a million, one million millions is a billion. :\

stupid, stupid, stupid

[n3k5]

Any P2P client that encourages non-complete files to be shared is stupid, and should die.

No, you are stupid, because you don't understand the merit of sharing partial files. It's what BitTorrent does. If I am the only source of a rare file, but a hundred people want it, I'd have to upload it to them a hundred times. However, if they help each other out while downloading it, I can give a different part of the file to each of them, once, and after that I'll be just one among 100 sources. That's lots of saved bandwitdh for you, a good incentive to share more content. And the file will reach its various destinations much faster, too!

It seems to allow impartially downloaded files to be shared on the network, and even encourages this by showing you a bar for each file that illustrates which parts of the file the person has. When I tried to download a video from there, *nobody* had the whole thing, they all just had the same small snippets of it!

It doesn't just show you who has what, it also shows you how available/rare each part of the file is and when a complete version of the file was last seen. If you download a file whith red (missing) parts that are not likely to come online again because they were last seen three months ago, it's again you who's stupid, not the program. But I'm not saying you should die ;-)

Most Downloaded

[archetypeone]

equals Most Likely to be sued. I'm quite happy sticking to Gnutella.

Re:Most Downloaded

[radja]

well yes, they've been sued. a few times. kazaa has already been deemed legal.

Re:Bah! It takes a billion to be most d/l'ed woman

[Narcissus]

The British billion is a million million.

Re:Bah! It takes a billion to be most d/l'ed woman

[mrscorpio]

Hot damn. Those crazy Brits, always having to do things different. First putting the steering wheel on the right, and now this!

Chris

Quicktime - most distributed licensed software

[adzoox]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Quicktime in all its iterations is the most widely distributed program, even surpassing Windows. (Because Windows has come with it built in since ME, right?) It's on all AOL discs since 4.0, it comes with MOST digital cameras, whenever there's a popular movie trailer it becomes the largest weekly download total. There were 7 million downloads for the trailer to Phantom Menace and 12 million for Attack Of The Clones. Every Apple computer sold since 1991 has had it as part of the base OS.

I beleive I remember hearing at the Quicktime Live conference that the title statement was accurate.

It is interesting to see all the records Quicktime has.

Re:Quicktime - most distributed licensed software

[JCholewa]

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Quicktime in all its iterations
> is the most widely distributed program, even surpassing Windows.

This could be the case, but I would imagine that Adobe Acrobat Reader, which has been on the vast majority of program CDs that I've seen, may contest that a little.

--
-JC

P2P and YOUR ideas (from musician/fan perspective)

[independentmusician]

The following is an IDEA ONLY (and not an implemented plan ...YET!) The idea, from my soapbox: "TO ALL WHO WISH TO PARTICIPATE in the debate over P2P, internet media, online music freedom, etc. I want your COHERENT AND BEST stated comments! Pro or Against, it DOES NOT MATTER WHICH SIDE YOU TAKE! (as long it is your HONEST opinion!) I want short, concise statements from YOU on VHS tape (or other format, but I want to keep the access issue as simple for the respondent as possible) that best reflects YOUR view-point on these issues. (You or a friend just put the camera in your face and start talking about it as YOU feel about it!) I will edit the (hopefully) many sides and opinions into one half-hour or hour long documentary video with which to educate the thus far non-informed general public. If you submit, please state your first name and/or alias (full name if you don't mind about privacy issues) and relevent profession/occupation (musician/artist/fan/industry professional, lawyer, etc.) at the start of your comments. Please limit your comments to a few sentences. If you rant at length, you are subject to having only "edited" or possibly "out of context" statements aired. (Thus, edit YOURSELVES as to what you SAY! ONLY SAY WHAT YOU MEAN TO SAY!) Try to keep it down to something that can be used as a sound byte, (or several, if you have several!) If you must be lengthy in your opinions, don't expect to have your entire speech shown. The idea here is to present a LOT of DIFFERENT views about the issues in a quick paced way with divergent views back to back. VIEWER MAKES UP THIER OWN MIND! The target of this presentation is the AVERAGE (and on THESE issues thus far uneducated) AMERICAN TV VIEWER! The GOAL is to EDUCATE THEM! So, just grab a camcorder and tape yourself saying the most smart and well thought out comment you can about the entire entertainment/internet/p2p/napster/deregulation/et c/etc/etc controversy. Keep it short and concise, because we DO have to edit it all down to 30 min or 1 hr! We want divergent views, but we want HONEST views. (No, this is NOT a Hollywood auditon, so don't bother hamming it up for the cam... if your views are not relevent or well thought out or informational, they will not be used.!) YES, BOTH PRO AND AGAINST! (YOU define about what!) The concept behind this piece is to have NO bullshit commentators other than the comments presented BY YOU, one after the other. SNAP, SNAP, SNAP. Just one soundbyte after the other, for OR against. No flashy production values, ONLY FOCUS ON THE ISSUES ABOUT THE INTERNET AND P2P AND THE INDUSTRY AND THE FUTURE OF MUSIC DISTRIBUTION! The finished product will be presented as a PSA to the public. ABSOLUTELY NOBODY will be payed for their participation by the creators and participants in this piece. AND NO MONEY WILL BE MADE from presentation of this project. This is to be a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT ONLY! For the common good and by the common people!" Anyone want to help me with this idea? (Again, it is only an idea at this stage, depending on interested participation levels from VARIOUS viewpoint minded people!) George? --Shmoo, of Electric Gypsy "DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! DON'T JUST COMPLAIN!" Support Local and Independent Music!

Re:Ever hear of a STORE?!?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Screw YOU, hippy!

how about:

[Sarin]

things like lilo, grub or bash, surely they must have been downloaded a lot, maybe even more times, though perhaps easily not measureable, because I suppose most distros include them.

WinZip

[caffeinex36]

WinZip by far should have won this.

Also, I wonder if they count shareware downloads of programs and how they measure.

Well, I'm convinced

[Cereal Box]

It's quite obvious that Kazaa is the most downloaded program because people want their public domain movies, music, and software and they want it now!

well, duh, it gets you free anything!

[192939495969798999]

Why would anyone buy the cow when they get the milk for free, or in this case, the whole cow?

eMule

[Anonymous Coward]

Blows goats, it is clunky, slow over DSL connections and just plain sucks. When you opensource weenies get something that WORKS as well as Kazaa-lite et al, then you can talk. Unitl then shut the fuck up!

Re:eMule

[Anonymous Coward]

What? You mean like the giFT with the Fasttrack plugin?

Re:eMule

[Goldberg's Pants]

Slow? Are you on crack? I have mine capped at 115kbps and it routinely hits that limit.

I've downloaded it at least 10 times myself

[CastrTroy]

I love the way they do these numbers. With the number of windows reinstalls i've done, i must have downloaded kazaa like 10 times, maybe 20. This is also due to the fact, that apart from reinstalls of windows, I also remove this program and all its spyware after a few days, when i realize there are many other programs out there that are doing a much better job.

Makes more sense with better grammer

[ashitaka]

Kazaa says, "On track to be most-downloaded program"

Inertia and Least Common Denominators

[Mal Reynolds]

The first reason Kazaa destroys all the other file-sharing methods is that it has all the users. The number one rule of P2P: More users equal more files. Sounds simple but a lot of people miss the obviousness of it.
Most Open-P2P services lose this battle immediately by not interoperating with each other. And every new Open-P2P implementation just further fragments the available user and file base into ever smaller fiefdoms. Not to mention the Open-P2P user base is not the average user, but the super user.
The other place the Open-P2P implementations really miss the boat is in the default user setup. The default settings of Kazaa share all of the files a user downloads with other Kazaa users. It also defaults the user to allow unrestricted downloads at unlimited speed from his machine. Sure, these settings can be changed, but that's not the point. Kazaa caters to the least common denominator computer user, truth is, that's most users.
But most Open-P2P implementations shoot themselves in the foot from the instant they are downloaded. They default the user to "not" share all downloaded files, then let them choose the transfer speeds. They also add in tons of "features" and settings that mystify the average user. Average users don't know from nodes and really don't want to know. They want to get files and not have to mess with settings. Kazaa works out of the box, while most Open-P2P implementations take a lot of wrangling just to get working. But the real key is that most users never change their default settings. So most Kazaa users share everything they download, thus there are always more files-per-user on Kazaa's system than any of the Open-P2P systems.
Then there's IRC and the Newsgroups. IRC has been DDOS'd into irrelevance and even when it wasn't, sitting in file que's for days on end was not my idea of fun. Newsgroups are still with us, for now. But many ISP's offer very spotty service and as binary use grows, I suspect even our dear old newsgroups may come under heavy fire from the MPAA/RIAA.
Bottom line, having tried all the various flavors and methods of file accumulation, Kazaa kicks everything else's ass. Using Kazaa-lite and a handful of Kazaa specific search and download enhancement utilities, there's almost nothing I can't find on the service. The Open-P2P providers aren't even close.
The only way any Open-P2P will get close to Kazaa is by emulating it, then bettering it. If I were building an Open-P2P system to try and beat Kazaa, first I'd copy it, the back-end, the front-end, the "lack" of settings, everything. Then I'd concentrate on features designed to get around all forms of ISP restrictions and MPAA/RIAA manipulations. I'd implement things like port swapping, encryption, IP spoofing, tunneling, reputation systems, cloaking shared data to elude packet shapers and anything else I could think of. I'd make it all automatically activate when necessary and have all the college users overnight. All those college users with all that bandwidth would give the system the inertia it would need to succeed. Once you have inertia, you have the files, and when have the files, the users will come. And when the MPAA/RIAA really start moving against the ISP's and Kazaa, a system like this could take Kazaa's crown.

Spyware

[Anonymous Coward]

What is spyware? And what does everyone have on their PC's that they are worried about being spied on about?

Bloody annoying..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sitting here trying to backup and rebuild a machine that I sorted out less than 6 months ago. When I first saw this machine, it was loaded with scumware from kazaa, and from the user clicking on various "Your computer is broadcasting an IP address" links.

It's loaded with scumware again, despite me trying to explain the problem to the user, despite me installing kazaalite for them (they installed kazaa AS WELL, I guess because it's what they're used to.)

Thanks guys. You're number one. Now do the world a favour and GO FUCKING KILL YOURSELVES.

You know there are 3 guys doing this

[OS24Ever]

There are three script kiddies downloading, and re-downloading the package to make it win the race :)

How come it's still not as good as winmx, then?

[kahei]

I usually search for things in winmx, kazaa, $EDONKEY_CLIENT, and soulseek simultaneously. At the end of the day, I usually have n files from winmx, n/3 files from soulseek, and pretty well nearly 0 from the others. If there are so many kazaa users, their tastes must be far more homogenous than winmx and soulseek users. I wonder what it all means.

Anyway, wake me up when kazaa can handle files with non-ISO8859 names.

What about winamp?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why isn't winamp up there as one of the top programs downloaded? Don't tell me everyone is using media player to play their mp3s!

Proof that most downloaded program is Adobe

[vosbert]

A search for the words "click here" on google returns the most heavily linked sites which I assume to be also the most popular. 1. Adobe Acrobat Reader 2. Google (not a download) 3. Quicktime Download 4. Macromedia Flash 5. Yahoo (not a download) 6. Microsoft 7. RealOne Player

Kazaalite

[grinwell]

It seems like more than half of the uploads and downloads on kazaalite program/network are other kazaalite users.

Which brings up a good question--if Kazaa makes its money on all the spyware...how does Kazaalite make enough money to support the huge bandwidth needed for downloads? Can it really all be from donations?

Or are percentages skewed because kazaalite is being used?

Figures are wrong..

[destiney]

Any self respecting warez kiddy knows kazaa-lite is where it's at.

ISO images?

[Andrewkov]

Why don't we use ISO images of music CD's? I've never tried it, but it seems like you should be able to make an ISO image of a music CD, compress it with gzip or whatever, and upload that. This way you could download the entire CD without loosing any data (MP3 uses lossy compression), and simply burn the whole thing. Anyone tried this? Is there any P2P network encourging this? Every time I try to re-create a whole album, song for song, it is a huge pain in the ass, you always end up with MP3's of various sound quilities (and volume levels), imcomplete files, etc. There's been times where I've actually had to go outside and purchase the real CD!! ;-)

Re:ISO images?

[hellswraith]

Ohh, heaven forbid you had to go outside! What you are getting is free, quit complaining.

Re:ISO images?

[forkboy]

Because most people are just looking for a song or two, not an entire album. If I had to download and entire 640MB ISO of Aenema just to listen to Hooker With a Penis, I'd be awfully fucking pissed.

Re:ISO images?

[Andrewkov]

Yes, I totally agree (except for the "artist" you mentioned .. haha) ... But if you *did* want the entire Aenema album, downloading the ISO would be so much easier than searching for the song list, then the MP3's, wouldn't it?

Re:ISO images?

[forkboy]

Well...easier yes...more bandwidth efficient, no. The entire album's worth of MP3s would be about 75-100MB at 192kb rate. I can download that much faster than the whole cd.

I'm also not one of the audiophile crowd who think they can hear lossy compression, so I'm easier to please in that regard. 192kb rips sound exactly the same as CDs to me. Anything less than 192 and it's definately noticeable, but not annoying until you get down around 64kb.

Re:Bah! It takes a billion to be most d/l'ed woman

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not the only ones. Billion means a million millions in Spain, France, Portugal, Italy, etc, etc, etc. Now, who's always doing things different?.

OTOH, we have metric system and you both (american and britains) have imperial system... what a funny world.

Security update for Kazaa v 2.1

[sabit666]

Kazaa & iMesh in 'serious' security alert
10:23 Tuesday 27th May 2003
Patrick Gray, ZDNet Australia

P2P file sharing network users were urged to install a patch to fix a 'serious' security vulnerability that has been discovered by Random Nut

Read

Re:Bah! It takes a billion to be most d/l'ed woman

[Graspee_Leemoor]

It used to be the case that an English billion was a million million, while a US billion was a thousand million. Now they're both a thousand million.

graspee

It has already beat ICQ

[mnmn]

Heres the link to compare:
http://download.com.com/3101-2001-0-1.ht ml?tag=dir

It has already beaten ICQ Pro.

you have it backwards

[Heisenbug]

In order to *download* Windows, you have to have Kazaa.

Re:you have it backwards

[CvD]

Yeah, and in order to have KaZaa, you need Windows.. so its a catch-22. How do you download Windows when you have neither Windows nor KaZaa?

Re:you have it backwards

[theefer]

Yeah, and in order to have KaZaa, you need Windows.. so its a catch-22.

Oh I got it ! That's what all those stupid OEM versions are sold for : you use a crappy version to download (with Kazaa) another crappy OS. This is so smart ...

Nice theory, impossible to measure

[dsplat]

What about all of the free software out there? Emacs gets downloaded as source, precompiled binaries for various platforms, and bundled with virtually every free OS out there. How can you aggregate all of the numbers from all of the servers and get a single number for the most downloaded app.

Giving statistics for the number of downloads from a single service is at least possible. But it falls far short of measuring the most downloaded app. Most free software downloads are off of many other sites.

The RIAA Must be behind all this!

[Anonymous Coward]

Rosen et al probably boosted these figures by trying to download all available copies, in order to keep them out of the hands of those evil nasty song trading pirates.

Re:Yea.

[Dimensio]

Bah, and I was gonna offer the DiscJuggler CDI image (which I surprisingly still have on my machine).

mldonkey has fasttrack

[Heisenbug]

Of course, in practice, the trick isn't getting Windows -- the trick is buying a PC *without* Windows.

Actually, as of very recently, mldonkey supports FastTrack! Which means now I can download all the Windows I want from my Mac.

Better get started on that :-)

P2P Multi-Protocol Support

[SilentMajority]

Is Kazaa more popular than Shareaza? If so, why? If I'm not mistaken: 1. Kazaa has spyware 2. Kazaa only supports one P2P protocol 3. Shareaza has no spyware 4. Shareaza 1.9 beta supports gnutella v1, v2, BitTorrent and eDonkey 2000 (eMule) protocols.

what is with all the p2p stories today?

[heXXXen]

This figure doesn't even include Kazaa Lite and the like!

Who the hell would use the standard Kazaa?!

I'm surprised that . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Gator isn't number one in downloads.

/obvious

Wow! That's just in time for...

[Anonymous Coward]

...it to become the largest botnet in the world, thanks to this dream of a bug in the supernodes that's been around since Christmas, discovered by the K++ author (yes, Sharman et al do know)!

Let's face it, it wouldn't be surprising if the RIAA used this. Might be illegal, but who's to say it isn't some script kiddie turned cracker wanting to take a new world r00ting record?

Re:Only the highest on download.com -- A Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

After running into that problem (not remembering what email address I'd used the last time) numerous times, I came up with a simple solution:

1. Uninstall RealOne Player.
2. Dig out my old .net Magazine cover CD
3. Install RealPlayer 8 Basic edition
4. When it asks for the email address, I use the sample address it provides, which is name@company.com
5. That's it.

Moral of the story: the latest isn't always the greatest. God only knows why Real.com needs an email address to download RealONE anyways.

Re:Bah! It takes a billion to be most d/l'ed woman

[Anonymous Coward]

The time I spent helping to make Danni Ashe the most downloaded woman on the Net was more enjoyable to me -- and more valuable -- than the time it took for me to read all the anti-KaZaA information and decide not to ever, ever, EVER download or install that piece of garbage.

In my opinion, getting rid of ANY spyware -- with that infernal KaZaA leading the pack -- is the best thing we could do.

How to become the most downloaded

[djeaux]

(1) Disguise a vital DLL in your program as one of the myriad spyware proggies you piggy-back into your installation. That way, anyone running AdAware or a similar clean-up program has a high probability of clobbering your program & having to download another copy.

(2) Issue an update every few days & equip your program with an auto-updater. This is easy to do by just changing the various spyware proggies you're including.

(3) Count every banner ad you serve as a "download".

(4) Lie like hell. This isn't tough if you're already running without ethics.

The Kazaa Girl

[kolevam]

Can anyone recall the girl on the home page of the Kazaa site? Do you make much of an association between her and the Kazaa product? I'm curious because I know the surfer girl who is in that photo and she got paid some ridiculously low flat fee to have her picture taken for some generic advertizing purposes (I've seen her on Yahoo and BlueShield's site as well). And with this many downloads I wonder if she is a fairly recognizable figure on the web? You think Kazaa might consider taking her on as a spokesmodel?

In other news...

[uninstall]

Cydoor and Brilliant Digital surpass everything else to become the most-installed spyware ever.

Re:Quicktime - nope Flash

[dbrown]

Quicktime does not ship with WinXP. I just had to install it. However, Flash does ship with Windows. Last I heard, the Flash player had been downloaded a billion times (yes with a 'B')and was getting downloaded at the rate of somewhere around 30,000 a day. These numbers do not count the copies of Flash shipped with Windows.

Re:What is this On Track program that the title sa

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's just missing a T. there's no grammar missteak hear.

"KASAA STAYS ON TRACK TO BE MOST-DOWNLOADED PROGRAM."

but yes. it's a mistake and should be corrected.

Looked at it & laughed at it..

[Stonan]

Have they gotten rid of the spyware yet? Kazaa is crap. IRC works the best but I prefer WinMX. I've found everything I need - from new just released movies to old cult classics and the obscure.

Huh?

[medscaper]

Just to be devil's advocate, here...

If I were to download Photoshop with Kazaa, spend time learning how to use it, and enhancing my job prospects I would quite likely end up joining a company who would buy a Photoshop license for me to use. So my Piracy would have directly resulted in economic gain for Adobe, why the hell they should be bothered about the everyday Joe dling it I don't know.

Out of curiosity, what if the opposite were true? What if you were looking for a job and didn't steal the software just to enhance your skills? What if you went out and bought a copy, THEN learned how to use it in order to _get_ a job with which you could display your skills?

I know it probably wouldn't happen in today's world of "Hey, it's free, and I'm not really STEALING anything, just copying it!" but if you couldn't get a copy off of any fileshare, and had to purchase it, would you switch careers or forego the job? Or simply pony up the cash and buy the damned thing?

I guess I see a lot of the ends justifying the means around here. If you buy the thing to learn it, Adobe's made their money, and will probably make more. If you steal the thing the learn it and then talk your company into buying it, is that your justification? Is it alright, then?

If I steal $100k from my bank because I think I can get them $200k next week with my investment, and I do, is it then right? Or am I just making excuses for not paying for it? If I end up making $250k instead (which is what happens when you steal and learn Photoshop - you still retain that knowledge after you leave the job) do you give that back, too? And, God forbid, what if you don't get the job? Do you write a letter to Adobe apologizing and sending them a check for the license fees?

Thought not.

Re:Huh?

[valisk]

The situation is similar but not analogous as my home use of Photoshop, produces no net loss for Adobe, even in the short term. As the product is not marketed towards home users, but at more serious hobbiests and professionals who are willing to pay the large upfront cost of such a software package

Stealing money from a bank does result in a net loss and as the result is uncertain would if repeated by many result in no gain at all.

But to look at the bank analogy a little deeper, You go to the bank and borrow money to start a business or send yourself to business school, whatever, you cant afford the fees upfront but the bank lets you take a loan because by doing so your chances of being able to afford to pay that money back with plenty of interest is increased, sure some people would laugh and run off with the money others would waste it, some would fail abjectly, but more than enough do succeed for the banks to keep throwing money at their loan customers.
Overall your potential ability to repay that money is increased by the very fact they gave you the money in the first place.

Most unemployed people I know would not have the spare capital to buy a copy of Photoshop which retails for $600+ today and noting that you can use Photoshop 'Elements' or 'PhotoAlbum' will not assist you greatly on your CV, so lets say Adobe, would license for no cost a personal use version of Photoshop, fully featured as per the commercial version, they simply ask that when you turn pro you upgrade to a full license, and for that you get a full manual set, regular upgrades and technical support, everything you get when you buy a boxed set now. Plus you don't run the risk of being sued by Adobe for abusing their license.
Basically by giving you the product they are increasing not only the chances that you could afford to buy it in the future but also the chances that you will buy it.

We could argue about net loss to competitors to Adobe, but that would be as bad as arguing that all banks should have the same interest rates.

I actually think, and I am sure that many would agree, that big software houses would benefit enourmously from giving their software away to home users so they could profit from business users.

However I have a little secret to tell, in that I am a registerd licensed user of Photoshop and a couple of other Adobe products which I bought before I bit the free software bug. I might add that I did obtain a non authorised copy before I bought, so I feel free to prognosticate ex cathedra on the matter ;) Which is not an endorsement of 'piracy' but rather an honest question about why software companies should care about non commercial use of their products, when the next generation of potential young designers decide that with all the draconian nonsense about license costs and threats to remove their liberty cause them to investigate the increasingly popular free alternatives.

I guess what I'm saying is that Commercial, Closed Source, per seat license style software houses are going to have to evolve a smarter business model to survive in a future which _will_ be dominated by Free Software.

Re:Huh?

[medscaper]

Well, I agree 100%, in that light. The larger software companies could well go to a training-based model, and make lots of money by giving away "educational" or "training-only" versions.

The only problem I see is that they _don't_ do it currently, so the fact that they don't but should shouldn't be a reason for unauthorized software copies. I personally think that the bank should give me a loan because I have a great business idea, and I know I'd make them lots of money and repay the loan with interest. But if they don't give it to me, I don't have the right to go in and take it, on the premise that they "should" or "it makes business sense - you just can't see it". That's my only problem. I also have registered Premier and Photoshop and AfterEffects. They cost me a bundle, and their use is on my resume. I used to steal software, but when I realized that my career stability could be based on my dishonesty, and that I made the same sorts of stuff I didn't want other people stealing, I stopped, threw away my backups, and actually started paying for it all.

But I agree, your plan is an excellent one. Just wait until it gets implemented, so you're not accused of theft. :)

229 million pieces of crap spyware

[Anonymous Coward]

/boggle/

Re:P2P and YOUR ideas (from musician/fan perspecti

[slide-rule]

Holy smokes... add some brevity, lose the caps (use bold instead) and, for the love of all the is holy, use some paragraph breaks. I can't make it past the second or third line.

gator

[Anonymous Coward]

kazaa - no way. the most downloaded program is definately gator.

Typo

[bkakes]

As we all know, that should read "P != NP", not "N != NP". Ah, the joys of typos...

Coincidentally, a vulnerability in Kazaa

[crisco]

Article from The Globe and Mail.

Users of file sharing programs such as Kazaa and iMesh are urged to install a security patch after a serious bug was discovered in their underlying network.

A security researcher recently found a potentially critical vulnerability in the program that drives the FastTrack network. FastTrack is used by peer-to-peer software service including Kazaa and iMesh. Joltid, the maker of FastTrack, initially said the flaw was not serious, but has since done an about-face and plans to plug the loophole.

The makers of Kazaa will release a patch within the next 24 hours and are urging customers to install it as soon as possible.

According to the original security advisory, published on the Full Disclosure security mailing list, attackers can take control of or crash the FastTrack "supernodes" that file swappers connect to.

"It's definitely a serious risk. Just ask anyone if executing arbitrary code is a serious risk or not," the researcher said.

Identifying himself only by his pseudonym, Random Nut, he said he went public with the vulnerability after waiting nearly two weeks for Kazaa and Joltid to get back to him.

"On Tue 13 May I e-mailed a guy at Joltid, and about two days later I filed a bug report at [the Kazaa Web site]. Yesterday, after reading it on Full Disclosure, someone working for Joltid contacted me. He told me that the guy I e-mailed had been on a long honeymoon," he said.

Although he has exploited the vulnerability, he will not make the exploit code public.

"I haven't released the exploit code. I don't want some little script-kiddie to close down all of the network or parts of it," he said.

A representative for Sharman Networks, the company behind Kazaa, said the company had been informed by Joltid that the issue wasn't serious.

"As a licensee, Sharman Networks has been advised that the security of the FastTrack peer-to-peer technology is not under any significant risk," she said. Kazaa will use information provided by Joltid in authoring a patch.

"Sharman Networks has been provided with an update from the FastTrack's licensors which addresses this issue," the company said in a statement. "The latest update will be available for download within 24 hours, and we encourage users to install it as soon as possible."

Next worm to be choking my traffic, maybe?

Re:What is this On Track program that the title sa

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

"Hell, I have far from perfect grammer and spelling, but atleast I can get that right."

Perhaps you should re-read that line again?

WOW

[Unregistered]

that's a lot of spyware

Re:Kazaa's golden days followed by Kazaa Lite's ri

[xombo]

I didn't know Kazaa had a centralized control server?

Re:P2P and YOUR ideas (from musician/fan perspecti

[MacWiz]

You rang, Schmoo?

Allow me to restate my friend's challenge. He wants to create a documentary about the Internet and P2P showing both sides of the issue, how it is perceived to the public and the reality from the artists' point of view, as well as the consumer.

Do you have an opinion? State it in front of a video camera. Make the most convincing argument you have. We intend to inform the public of the truth.

To participate in this project or the beginning of the new music industry (which involves a totally free, litigation-proof P2P music delivery system), contact either Schmoo or myself.

We launch on July 4 -- Independents' Day.

Our message to the major labels -- Embrace P2P or die.

Re:Bah! It takes a billion to be most d/l'ed woman

[Dave2 Wickham]

Huh? I never willingly use imperial, and almost never have to. The only thing that I know of that uses imperial is road measurements.