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Real Problems
Universal Nerd writes "Could Real be its own downfall? According to 'Find the Download in a Haystack', it could be. The difficulty folks have in reaching the free version of RealPlayer is forcing Minnesota Public Radio to look towards Windows Media Player as an alternative. I prefer good old MP3 or OGG streaming like the feeds offered at WCPE but I'm sure no 'serious' company would consider it because they don't have their digital rights preserved." See the CarTalk story from yesterday.
Hey, I might get my first ever first po... BUFFERING.........
Good. I hate Real Player. It's always been the most annoying player out there. Downloading a copy is a bitch (although they've made it somewhat easier recently), that Real Message Center is annoying as hell.
The message here for Real should be really simple. Make your player as easy to get as possible. Require two clicks to download. Content is King. Annoying software is not. Give me a real reason to register. Look at how sites like slashdot and fileplanet work.
Casual Games/Downloads
Well, if Real is listening, they'll hopefully make a big prominent link to the free version on their front page.
I remember four years ago when I had to dig through the site to find it; what a pain in the butt.
It plays Real files, and if you download the K-Lite Mega Codec Pack, everything else too (Quicktime, Divx, Ogg, etc.).
It also includes Media Player Classic, which is a very nice player that picks up where Windows Media Player 6 left off.
Is Real following suit with Mandrake?
Using the "YOU MUST BUY OUR PRODUCT"...(small print) The download for the free version is 10 links deep (/small print)
I think that the only real way for companies to go in this area is open source and open standards. Real makes its money through sales of its "professional" player, with features you can't get from the free player. But, if people are demanding free content without paying for a player, (how many people actually pay for it), they are going to look for free alternatives. Right now the only "free" alternative is Windows -- because the cost of developing the formats are built into the OS. However, if there were open standards then any player could jump in without any kind of patent infringement -- leading to a jump in Open Source projects (those of us who code for the fun because the money went to India a long time ago).
OGG/MP3 do not remove your rights. Lets me clear.
That people copy (and it's easy with Real and WMP - play it out through line out and record it in whatever you wish) mp3/ogg does not affect "their rights"
I used to like real player, because it was the only program that would play the real audio clips that were on the internet. That was about 5 years ago. Now real player is bloated and full of extras that have little to do with streaming audio. When Real Networks launched their game service, it seemed they were trying anything to stay functioning as an 'internet' business.
http://github.com/gbook/nidb
It used to be a great technology company, and now it's a great marketing company
I agree with the second part, but the first part is untrue. Real used to be a terrible technology company, and recently have gotten better.
Anyone remember: Buffering.. buffering...
is due to the privacy infringement, obscuring downloads and contracts with practically unreadable small print, and strongarm anticompetitive licenses/EULAs/contracts imposed by corporations? Hell yes! In my opinion American companies are some of the worst offenders of freedom. We are starting to beginning of slavery again. The days of owing your soul to the plantation store are back. It's pretty sad.
You besides having one of the most annoying install processes in the history of computers, hijacking functions the user had no intention of having Real handle, shoving registration down your throat with tons of opt-outs rather than opt-ins, having obtrusive background programs running even when you tell them not to...
I think not being able to find the download link was the best part about it.
Ehh, one of the things that Real fixed according to CarTalk story from yesterday WAS the problem with finding the free download.
It is now literally two clicks away from the front page - you click "Download RealPlayer" and then "Download Free Player" and it starts downloading.
How much easier can it be?
I believe that it has been more complicated in the past, but it's not particularly difficult (unlike searching Slashdot for a particular story).
The most pertinent point is the Real-NPR deal. If the clickthrough for public radio listeners is making a free download difficult, then NPR has a legitimate complaint. Their users want a convenient and inexpensive way to access content. If Real can't accomodate, then screw them.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
I've had increasing difficulty to locate the free version of Real Player over the years because the link seems to be hidden. In fact I had to argue the fact with a freind who wanted to view some real player content that there even was a free version. She spent almost a week going back to the Real Player site looking for the free player version that I knew was there before she came back to say Real Player just would not work with her computer.
Also it is getting difficult to locate the Real Player for Linux.
Sure the Real Player folks need to make money - but I just don't have so much to give these days. I also don't really need all the extras the paid version has.
I second the recommendation of Real Alternative. Also, grab Quicktime Alternative and Media Player Classic. But codec packs? Hell NO! I learned much about codecs (and formatting and reinstalling) after I installed one of those godawful monstrosities. My advice is install a codec when you need it for the first time, and leave it at that. That K-Lite thing should be classified as a virus.
The hiding of the free player
The non-standard installer
The annoying "messages" that cannot be turned off
are all reasons why people don't use their product any more. If they woke up and smelled the coffee, they could easily win back market shares.
I have always had trouble with how difficult it is to find the free version on their site.
But they also have other problems. It many times feels unnatural to use their player to me. They need to work on making it feel more integrated, it just feels clobbed on to use it. I think they will be their own downfall for many reasons...
I used to think that the larger companies like this pave the way for the smaller companies in the software industry -- driving innovation through their own stagnation, perhaps. Similarly, I used to think chopsticks originated in Asia, at least until someone made me aware of their creation as an enticing gimmick by immigrant restaurant owners in American mining communities in the 1800s and subsequent exportation to the Far East as a unique dining tool. Opened my eyes to the potential of reexamining the current to design the future; especially so after I factored in the sizable lumber export market that has become necessary to meet such demand.
The point is, it's simply impossible to spot where the next trend or emerging market will be, but the potential for wealth creation by expanding the marketplace is great. The end-user must decide who the winners will be by their choices, and there's still room for the small players to win by simply not bugging the living hell out of their customers.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
Because they seem to have a severe case of story diarrhea today.
I can't stand RealAudio. Horrible product. But what is worse is that I live next door to their head office in Seattle. I have to drive by it everyday. There is, however, one small benefit. When I spy some particularly important looking suit's walking out of Real building I can give them a good bollocking as I drive past. Certainly makes me feel better for about 5 mins.
We do also have Quicktime and WindowsMedia. Available here. And we're the ones that originate Car Talk, among others.
-T
Real is a bit of a bitch to download and use, even if you ignore all the adverts. I hate how it used to just randomly pop up and tell me about something.
I've just done a search for free Real Audio players (Open Source kind of free), and found none. Does anyone know any? Wouldn't this be exactly the sort of thing where OSS can shine?
- Jax
I am seriously offended. The poster has broken our most sacred traditions by linking to the previous post instead of posting it all over again.
I am appalled. Whats next? Spell checking? What is this world coming to?
[sig]you really dont want the answers, trust me[/sig]
about video streaming, Real is about the best one can get. The quality is less than average, but it comes at ridiculously low amounts of bandwidth. A 1.5h show compressed to 100M, in quality that is still acceptable, full 15-min cartoons that fit in some 10M files, this is what I haven't seen elsewhere. I'd hate to see Real be gone.
In the other hand, Real could go open-source with all their client software and provide their existing infrastructure to host some web TV and radio stations, for a fee. This could encourage many people to accept RealMedia as a standard, seriously extending Real's market share, while not killing their profit.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I've used a wide variety of windows streaming things, Windows Media Player, Real, Quicktime, MPEG through winamp, and I have to say I hate Real the most out of all of them. The player is filled with ads, it tries to load at startup even when you tell it not to, and the quality isn't that good. WMP is alright, but I hate to tie a stream down to one OS. I'd recommend a nice stream through the old mp3 codec. Every OS can read it, you can choose your player, and everyone is happy, except the big companies, and no one cares about their profits.
SAILING MISHAP
Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
What about some standards, MPEG 4 is very standarized and should be used. Quicktime plays it, IIRC Real also plays it so people have choices of what player they can use.
Real player is absolute crap IMHO. It's annoying to get, it blasts the user with ads and likes to annoy the user by sitting in the task bar, it's slow, bulky and has a horrible and intimidating interface. I liked Real Player's first interface (I'm assuming it was their first as I ran it on my 486.)
Despite this, I don't think Real is going anywhere for a while... channels like 'em too much.
I use Real Alternative with media player classic now. So much better.
-Derick
Sorry but mp3 streams better and is widely accepted. hell windows 98 wil play a mp3 stream out of the box without extra software...
and somepne please explain to me the justification of "preserving digital rights" on a freely downloaded mp3??? that's like a sales flyer maker getting pissed that someone is taking the flyer he made for a special sale and bitching that someone made 100 copies of his sales flyer and gave them to other people... What? you dont want free redistribution and promotion??? that is plain silly..
shoutcast works great, and is damned cheap to host/ licensing fees....
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You now, that always pisses me off when it does that. I wish NPR would allow us to just download a WAV file or something! Maybe there's some sort of copyright issues involved with just having a file for download.
I have a dial-up and I don't like tying up my phone line for an hour or so to listen to a program that's not offered in my area (Science Friday) or to listen to a show I missed.
Aside from the occasional show I listen to, Broadband still isn't worth it for me - just in case any of you were to suggest DSL or something.
A local community college wanted to broadcast their basketball games on the internet so parents in other states could listen. I recommended Shoutcast, as it works well with WinAmp. Both are free. Shoutcast runs on Linux, making the solution free (as in beer) for a community college (or NPR?) and winamp was a small and easy download for parents, with a direct link to the download page right on the college website. They took an old desktop and turned it into their shoutcast server. Very easy setup, worked well for them. Anybody at NPR listening?
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein
So, is the next article going to be about Sun, MS, or...? There have been a couple interesting tidbits today, but...yeesh! And no mention of the satellite going up on the 17th...not that "nerds" care about physics these days I guess. Just about bashing stuff. Ugg.
I prefer good old MP3 or OGG streaming like the feeds offered at WCPE but I'm sure no 'serious' company would consider it because they don't have their digital rights preserved."
This argument is rubbish. Anything you can stream you can record (using Audacity or similar) and save; for that matter, anything broadcast over the airwaves you can record.
Ultimately any form of broadcast/webcast can be converted to mp3/ogg with very little work. NPR should do everyone a service (that's why they're around, to do a public service) and just give us the mp3's/oggs.
After hearing all the bad things about downloading real player, I decided just now to start the download process of the free version to see how bad the website actualy was.
I went to the website and glanced around for about 5 seconds, then clicked the link that said download. The next page was slightly confusing for about three seconds, before i saw the segment that said 'download free version'. Clicked that, then started my download.
No problem for me.
If they didn't have their "free software" generate sales leads for them, then nobody would buy it.
It's a kind of blackmail - "we are going to spam you until you buy from us" or "we are going to make it hard for you to download/use the free version - so you had better buy from us."
I'm not saying it's ok. Like everything else nowadays "it's just business".
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Real is a lot like a super-dense star: both will eventually suck so hard that they destroy everything around them immediately prior to collapsing into a blackhole from which no useful information can ever escape.
After reading some of the positive feedback on the newest Real free player in the last story about this (the Car Talk one), I decided to give it another shot. The last time I thought about installing Real's player (probably a year or two ago), the whole process was so obnoxious that I gave up long before finishing the installation.
However, to the best of my ability to figure it out, the new, less-obnoxious Real player must not have been ported to OS X yet. The free player I downloaded was still as obnoxious as ever, and I once again gave up before even letting it install itself enough for me to check the version number.
Where are the quicktime feeds? O:)
Their product was good up to and including RealPlayer G2. But now it sucks. And their product sucking has nothing to do with Microsoft. It has to do with being managed by people who do not understand what the users want.
"Real Problems" - isn't that redundant?
The only reason I still suffer with RealPlayer in any form is MIT's OpenCourseware. The RealPlayer client has always been a PITA and Real has always been it's own worst enemy. They had more than half a decade of opportunity. Microsoft's Media Player has done nothing exceptional; just suck a lot less.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
This is RIDICULOUS! In one corner, we have Microsoft. 'Nuff said. In another, we have Apple-- QuickTime players for Mac OS/Mac OS X and Windows, and "grey market" potentially-DMCA-illegal playing via MPlayer. In another corner, we have Real, who SUCK in every way possible.
.AU for all I care. AND NO ONE USES ANY OF THIS STUFF.
.wma file, but .wma has been extinct for a dozen years, and the only program that will open it will be Foobleblatz(R) AudioMasher Pro(TM), a pro-level audio editing tool "with support for over 500 current and previous codecs and encoding formats", for the equivalent of $999.95 2004 dollars?
... god, it's going to be a nightmare. The nightmare is already beginning, in fact...
And then, in the virtually ignored fourth corner, we have the stuff that isn't totally assraped by big (or not so big, in Real's case) corporations. MP3. Ogg. Freaking gzipped
No, we have two choices: (1) Run Windows and/or Mac OS X and download some spyware-riddled bloatware from Apple, Real (ugh) or Microsoft (DOUBLE ugh), or (2) run any other OS and use a probably-illegal tool like MPlayer. (Oh, MPlayer isn't illegal, you say? Who the hell are you kidding? At the first nastygram from any big patent-wielding corporation, MPlayer's going bye-bye. As far as I'm concerned, thanks to our pal the DMCA, it's just another DeCSS waiting to happen.)
This is FREAKING RIDICULOUS. Who benefits from any of this? It doesn't even seem as if MS and Apple benefit. Certainly, the "consumer" slash "end-user" slash "listener" doesn't.
This is fucking asinine. I am getting truly disgusted by all of this ridiculous pushing of proprietary standards. SCREW THIS. What will happen in 20 years when someone needs to open a
Audiovisual works are our cultural legacy. And we're blindly allowing corporations to seal up the standards used to encode these works to digital form. What the fuck is our problem? "Consumer groups" and publications like Consumer Reports should be screaming for open standards... but they don't even know or care what the problem is... Nor will they until around 2010 or so, when they try to play their old files and find that they can't...
Imagine if Gutenberg's printing press was available only on license from Gutenberg Ltd., and that everything it printed used a special ink completely invisible unless you wear the patented Gutenberg Glasses(R), available for a MERE sum of 10 shillings. Think that sounds ridiculous? We're doing the very same thing today. Eventually, "dead tree" media will die, and the media used to replace it will be completely corporate-controlled, proprietary, and
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
MP3 streaming seems like a good idea. If someone really feels the need to "pirate" Minnesota Public Radio, they'll find a way to do it. I don't think Ogg Vorbis, regardless of its merits, is used widely enough to make it a good choice for streaming media. Everyone who would listen to internet radio has an MP3 player. Only /.ers have Ogg..
Who do you hate more?
I for one hate Real with a passion. I refuse to visit sites that have Real content. I'd rather deprive myself of watching it than sit through the pain of their terrible player.
If there was a larger following providing content you could view in winamp, that would be my ideal, but for the time being, I'll use WMP.
(Note: I realize I forgot to include the obligatory joke reference... I for one welcome our new video streaming overlords.)
Shoutcast is the way to go here. I believe it's what KCRW in Santa Monica uses. Mac and Windows users have dozens of choices that support it, notably iTunes and Winamp. Linux users have XMMS. I don't see the big dilemma here. I thought Shoutcast was free?
It's true, that second download page shouldn't be there (it should be one click download, quick install, and that's it).
But, MPR has their own direct link to the RealPlayer download page (much like they gave cartalk.com earlier) http://www.real.com/freeplayer/?rppr=npr. It's partially their fault for not putting this out there better.
This was actually my first time getting an ogg stream (using VLC) and I must admit, it sounded VERY good... Until it just shut down..
Although I understand the BBC had strong reasons to twist Real's arm in negotiations, I don't understand why MPR cannot wrangle something along the lines of BBC's relation to Real?
Oh, wait. MPR pretty much does ...
MPR Homepage > How To Listen > You can manually download the newest version here.
Am I missing something?
(Real seems to provoke the same thread topics on /. regardless of story context, it seems. This post is no different.)
Now, IANAAL (I am not an advertising lawyer) but I AM in advertising, and that claim seems somewhat dubious, and I'd love to see how they back it up. I know its nitpicking, but I can spare the attention for a company I hate so much, so if anybody can shed some light it would be appreciated.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
A lot of companies seem to feel that if people aren't listening to their advertisements, they should make their advertisements louder... if people aren't paying attention to their advertisements, they should make them more intrusive... if people aren't buying the upgrade, they should nag them oftener.
When my son was three years old, he used to act the same way. If you didn't pay attention to him, he thought the answer was to yell. Or pester. Or throw a tantrum.
My three-year-old was wrong.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I went to try to download a Flash plug-in from Macromedia for Mozilla (back before the plug-in auto-install stuff was standardized in 1.4), and found that the download page was, logically enough, a Flash animation that I couldn't actually view in order to get the plugin.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
AMEN!
Real has sucked hard for years. I don't have it installed on my systems anymore, because it was just too loaded with negative crap to be useful. If a stream isn't available on QT or WiMP, I haven't bothered.
/. editor got their panties in a bunch?
So why the sudden rash of Real Player articles? Is it because of some recent change, or is it just because some
Could it possibly be that Real actually *wants* marketshare, and has learned that pissing all over their user base is not the best way to do it?
They have *alot* of bad karma to overcome, at this point. I sincerely hope they do it!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
My first projects involved webdesign and heavy SMIL and Real Server developement related work. That's about 5 years ago. Even back then their site was the crappiest I could think of. It was a real bad PITA to reach usable information for _anything_ related to the real player or SMIL developement and it allways has been near to impossible to get a fresh realplayer within any resonable and sane amount of time. Surfing on their site for longer than a minute would cause noticable brain-cell rott and after 90 seconds the latest I allways would get seriously angry over such a piece of crap in navigation and comprehensability.
In fact, I'm shure this is one of the reasons why Real isn't that popular anymore.
Their site is a prime example for web design that truly sucks snails though straws. I even wrote a rant about that something like 4 years ago where I mentioned Real as a prime example of a site being crappy even with 'professional' use of tabled layout and grafics.
If this company doesn't change it's site soon, I'm going to celebrate their death even though their web technologies (including SMIL) and their player aren't half bad. Contrary to what slashdotters usually say.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Dear Real,
Despite your stated quandry of balancing the premium version and the free version, the solution is simple:
Make both buttons on the download webpage the same size. Same icon format and all. The only thi9ng making them different should be the word Premium and Free. Perhaps different colors.
Problem solved. Any users who miss the free version have nobody to blame but themselves.
The premium version should sell itself based on good features and consumer friendly options Regardless what your high paid marketing goons think, people will pay for quality.
Regards,
People with a Brain
We used to have a Apache proxy server running on campus that allows authenticated off-campus users access to on-campus electronic resources. When users have their proxy server settings set in their browser (IE) to point at our proxy server, installing Realplayer will take these settings and use it for itself. From looking at the Apache log, it looks like Realplayer will try to *phone home* about once every 10 seconds...since it can't auththenticate through the proxy server.
The logging of the Realplayer requests must have taken about 5-10% of the entire proxy log... It was a Real pain to look at the log for something when every few lines was a realplayer phone home request.
(side note, i use windows on my desktop, so dont flame me too hard)
screw the real player bullshit and use this instead
http://www.k-litecodecpack.com/
works great, and also fixes the annoying quicktime bs as well.
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
At some point people are going to have to accept the fact that digital data is copyable and you cannot change that.
Accepting this fact will let them move on to a business model that uses copying and free distribution to make a profit.
Perhaps shameless "Wayne's World" style product placement?
Perhaps old early TV style adds done by the personalities?
Then tell your advertisers, "we had X downloads and our projections say they will share it Y number of times."
"Now pay us for X+Y viewers."
Adobe also has the download in the haystack problem.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
In 1998, RealPlayer was the only commercial-grade streaming player for Linux. Sure, it might be surpassed by other solutions in most ways now, but is it really that bad? No. The ads are annoying, but you don't have to view them - just fire up Real when you need it and go into full screen mode.
How hard is it to look around the page and see the blue download link? I thought about it, wen't to their page, and found the free download link right away. It really isnt that hard, it just proves people are fucking idiots.
... Or Quicktime, for that matter. Sure, for Streaming Media, RealPlayer is fine. But did they NEED to go out of their way to incorporate huge, useless features into it just to try to rival good ol' Microsoft and Apple?
RealMedia, as a transferable media, has easily been outclassed by DivX/XviD. Seeing as how with the new BitTorrent Revolution and faster DSL lines becoming increasingly cheaper, people are willing to download larger files for exceptionally good quality - putting Streaming Media itself at risk as a business practice or even internet lingo.
In short, RM can be classified as a sort of really bad MIDI of Video. You can find it everywhere, but it is no replacement for an Orchestra.
I prefer good old MP3 or OGG streaming like the feeds offered at WCPE but I'm sure no 'serious' company would consider it because they don't have their digital rights preserved.
Do a Google search for "Net Transport". Only runs on Windows, AFAIK, but it allows you to download almost all MMS (WM) and RTSP (Real) streams. Not exactly easy to use (unless you use MSIE, in which case it integrates seamlessly - But personally, I'd rather suffer through it's awkward interface than use MSIE), but it works.
Also, you might want to look into Real Alternative and QuickTime Alternative. These don't always work, but when they do, you get to play the content through WMP classic (6.something), which doesn't disable the "save" option.
Finally, for those difficult newer QuickTime streams, set your TMP and TEMP environment variables to a network share on a Linux box - Although Windows will lock the files so you can't copy them, Linux won't honor that lock (meaning, from a shell on the Linux box, you can just watch as the file appears, wait for it to finish, then copy it to "blah.mov" to keep a copy.
And, AFAIK, none of these violate the DMCA. Simply by virtue of having the ability to play such files over the net, you already have "access" to them. This just enhances the flexibility of what you do with that access.
Okay, I've shared my Tips of the Day... Now, anyone know a way to save RealOne streams? I have yet to find a way to do so...
The Helix player (which is somehow subsidiary to Real) handles RealPlayer 10 files and is open source. Here is a link to their web page.
Oh, MPlayer isn't illegal, you say? Who the hell are you kidding? At the first nastygram from any big patent-wielding corporation, MPlayer's going bye-bye. As far as I'm concerned, thanks to our pal the DMCA, it's just another DeCSS waiting to happen.
Just because the US legal system is owned by big corporations doesn't mean the rest of the planet is in the same mess as the US. I see no credible threat to my use of mplayer. I don't live in the US and I didn't download it from the US and for that matter, it wasn't developed in the US.
The rest of your comments seemed sensible.
Care to provide some justification as to exactly how Mac OS X and the Quicktime player software are spyware-riddled and or bloatware? (Being a Mac user, I'm curious to hear about this.) Besides, as far as Quicktime goes, it's an open container format. The codecs used to encode/decode the streams are an entirely separate issue.
There is a Windows Media Player for Mac OS X and 9 that, like its RealPlayer for OS X counterpart, has few annoying "features' that appear in their Windows counterparts. Generally speaking, Mac users can use the streams from the major sites like NPR unless the streaming site has intentionally identified the Macintosh browser or player and refuses access, whether the stream is compatible or not.
WMP for Mac's streaming ability works fine. But this player, unlike the one built-in with Windows, only plays WMA streams and files, and lacks the iTunes-ish MP3 player features.
Of course, aside from the free RealPlayer (which, if you look at this link on a Mac browser that IDs itself as a Mac browser shows a simple link in the right corner to the free RealPlayer), there is QuickTime, which also plays streams well, but there are few sites that use it (one is Cartoon Network's Star Wars: Clone Wars site).
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
The guy obviously doesn't wants to listen to the show when he wants, not when they decide to stream it. So downloading it at night allows him to listen to it later without using the phone during the day. DUH! Haven't you ever downloaded a big file before?
...from the article:
"Jeff Chasen, general manager of desktop players for RealNetworks, said the company has made "great strides" in redesigning the download page to make it easy for people to find what they want right away.
"We're working on improving that page and working to get people what they want as much as possible," he said. "It's tricky. We have to offer both somehow."
Here's how you do both, Jeff. Clearly label the free player. Clearly label the one that costs money. Let the user choose which one he wants.
Soon you'll start seeing Message Center popups. You'll get random notices that a new version of Real is available. You'll get spurious requests to register.
Oh yeah, then go "uninstall" it. That will appear to remove it. Then later you'll get Message Center popups.
Then go remove any reference to Real from HLMS\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run. You'll still periodically see crap.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
As I've gotten older I've learned to calm my language and present my arguments in a more palatable manner.
But all in all. AMEN BROTHER.
+++ATHZ
heh, reading a lot of these, no one seems to care that real is on the downfall. Let's see, a bloated, ad/spy ware filled piece of software, who's native format really only works for voice steams, who's company has focused on everything but their core business, and who tries to trick customers into thinking there isn't a free version of their software. Gee, who wouldn't love them!
As much as I hate MS, windows media player and the related format are much superior to real. Anyway, I think I'll stick to mplayer!
KCRW, a leading NPR station (they create or are involved in quite a bit of the national programming) streams all of their stuff via the web in Real or MP3. They are listed in ShoutCast, ITunes Radio, and AOL Radio as well as their own website.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
...wasn't developed in the US.
Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it...
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
I have to say that for everything that I feel Microsoft has done wrong, they really have done pretty well by windows media player in terms of streaming content. I used Windows Media for most of the streams that have it and I'm on a Mac. I don't have to worry about pop-ups, banners, or any of the other annoying set up things that I do with RealPlayer and almost everyone is carrying a Windows Media Stream. I still think that Windows Media is inferior to iTunes for downloadable music and content, but that's another discussion.
:-D
For streaming radio and television - I really prefer windows media. Now if I could just find a way to stream windows media files from Linux....
I wonder if they know how to take a hint over there...
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I'm in a distance learning class and our professor does not want his lectures to become available for the world to take and use. His intellectual property is the format and content of the class. I guess it's not freely downloaded because I have to pay tuition to get access to the files, but it's an example none-the-less.
At the first nastygram from any big patent-wielding corporation, MPlayer's going bye-bye. As far as I'm concerned, thanks to our pal the DMCA, it's just another DeCSS waiting to happen.
Um, you do know that Mplayer is made by a merry band of coders from Hungary, don't you? They have a great deal less regard for US copyright concerns than Norway.
I share some of your concerns but I don't think this is one we really need to worry about. In fact if by some perversion of nature, law and justice F/OSS were to be banned in this country it would move to places like Hungary and Taiwan, and flourish there. And yes, it would make criminals out of a lot of us.
Someone you trust is one of us.
Just because the US legal system is owned by big corporations doesn't mean the rest of the planet is in the same mess as the US.
You forgot to suffix "yet" on there. It's coming, I don't like it, I'll fight it, but there's gonna be a fight, of that there's no doubt.
What is your problem with quicktime? The streaming server is not only free but the source is freely available (not common for 'spyware'), and official binaries are available for MacOS X, Red Hat, Solaris, and Windows. There are no royalties or fees of any kind. It can stream a variety of formats. The player is available for multiple platforms also and you can use other players to play QTSS/DSS streams (QuickTime Streaming Server / Darwin Streaming Server).
And what the heck did it do exactly? I've installed the k-lite mega codec pack on no less than 10 computers, and NEVER had a problem. In fact, I carry it on my USB keychain drive, just in case.
It's a very convenient way to get the most used codecs and even some of the more obscure ones.
Sister, actually.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
...but I'm sure no 'serious' company would consider it because they don't have their digital rights preserved."
I was just going to silently moderate in here until I read this line. There's nothing special about a WMA or Real Audio stream that prevents it from being dumped to disk, or prevents a program from dumping the decoded data to a file, so let's just drop it as far as "use-prevention" concerned. If it makes them feel safer, can't we just add a DRM spec to Vorbis? It won't protect the content, but it'll at least make Vorbis a contender. Given the choice between all the video and audio formats out there, I'd pick DiVX and Vorbis over all of them. Not because of royalty issues, but because they're technically superior to all the other garbage, and they're readable on all platforms. If I can't have Vorbis, then I'll take MP3 as a second pick.
Yes, I did recognize the author's use of sarcasm.
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
The WCPE listen online page produced a problem for me:
I've had similar problems when trying to listen/watch streaming video/audio in the past and have usually downloaded the stream and then watched/listened happily.
A player that I really prefer is actually Winamp, even though it lacks some features. I think that it does what it's supposed to do without being a CPU hog like Windows Media Player. (I once had problems with the sound quality on a MP3 and later found out that it was that WMP needed too much CPU. A switch to Winamp 2 resulted in the sound I wanted!)
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
real player blows. there's no if ands or buts about it. I downloaded the first version of real player back in the 56k day. I took it off and said "never ever again" Well that was until i decided to take defensive driving online. Well I'd say aroudn 3 years ago you had to install realplayer to watch their videos. Now If you'll notice they do their vidoes through windows media player. WMP may be bloated but its spyware free.
See Sig! See Sig Zig! Zig Sig Zig!!!!!
Real has evolved from a great, simple little player to nasty malware. I guess the admiration that the folks at "Progressive Networks" used to regularly express for leftist revolutionaries should have been a clue. Start off with "down with the Evil Empire, power to the people" and "progress" to "we don't care about feedback from the people because we ARE 'The People', so you'd better do what you're told".
A simple, clean player with a high-quality installer, available for all major consumer platforms (that means NOT primarily targeting Linux), and with a free server, could take advantage of this to take over this market, especially if it were capable of playing RealAudio format.
All the big broadcasters want is a large audience, and all the small ones want is a free server that's easy for non-techies to set up and a client that's easy for their niche listeners to install on a consumer machine. (Tip: simple, easy installers.) I hope the Open Source community can take advantage of this opportunity.
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
Well said and exactly right. And I'd add to that the company is annoying to deal with. At least the last time I had anything to do with them, which was around 2000. Freaking hate them.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
lack of playback on anything other than Mac & Win is a problem.
duhh... it's a troll. Trolls know Mac users are easy targets, being whiny bitches who can't hear any criticism of their beautiful computer friends without getting all steamed up.
A media player should be a 100K executable, and a folder with codecs. Quicktime player is not like that, therefore it is spyware-riddled and or bloatware.
"Multiple Platforms" == "Mac OS, Mac OS X, Windows."
"Other players" == potentially illegal things like MPlayer.
"Source freely available" == For QuickTime, yes. For many/most/all (?) of the codecs (kof kof SORENSON kof kof kof SORENSON kof kof kof!), no.
And who gives a flaming shit about the server? It's the ability to actually play the files once you have them that is important. Whoopteeshit, so in 10 years, we'll still be able to compile old open-sourced server source code and SERVE UP QuickTime streams, but what will we use to PLAY them? MPlayer? Which would have been declared illegal by a top-level state or Federal court in the US in 2005 or 2006? Maybe VLC, which would have died off eventually due to waning interest-- and which would also be, by implication, DMCA-illegal. Maybe we could play it with Xine, which will only be available in Lindows 2007 for $49.95 in an "officially MPAA/RIAA licenced version". (Lindows currently offers a legal Linux DVD player for Lindows, for instance-- the only one I know of. I believe it's based off of Xine... So my extrapolation isn't so far-fetched.)
You obviously missed the point of what I'm saying. My whole point is: We are locking up our cultural legacy in proprietary formats. WHY are we doing this? WHY are we allowing this to happen?
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
I would think public Radio and the Free Software movement have a lot in common. Its depressing to see then use such a restrictive mehod for distributing their content.
SHOUTcast! SHOUTcast! shoutcast...
Remember, after the US invaded Iraq one of the first laws they put into place were to protect intellectual property.
"You can get blown up and shot but no way in hell will we let you copy cds!!"
As broadband becomes more prevalent the tech I.Q. of the average user drops. I really hate to blame the BOFFs (wait, no I don't!) but sometimes a little common sense and a little reading go a long way.
Most folks don't read web pages anymore. They look at the bright and shiny widget graphics and click away, click click click until they are "Somewhere They Don't Want to Be" TM or can't figure out where they missed the boat. As it sits now, hit up real.com and you are literally two clicks away from downloading the free player. I think I installed it a few days ago before this news item hit, and believe it was three or four, but still no big deal. Now, had I not read the links I was clicking, or clicked blazing MEDIA PLAYER graphics that were on display I'm sure I would have gone down a more difficult path, and cause me many more clicks to get the free one.
Remember, it's Real's right to sell their premium player. We don't have to like it, and we don't have to buy it. Frankly, I'm surprised they even still offer a free version. They can set their site up however they want to encourage downloaders to buy the premium player as opposed to the freebie. I've visited sites that offer free applications and have done a much better job of hiding the goodies behind the curtain than real.com.
And to say they shouldn't sell their application at all and just subsidize it's expense off the greenbacks of the server side applications is just crazy. Even the free player is more than a simple "viewer" that other companies give away (Adobe, Crystal Reports, Microsoft). It's an actual full blown application. The premium player also offers content that costs money.
Apple's player (for about 2 years now) has broadcast in a standard MPEG-4 codec. So you can play it in ANY MPEG-4 compliant player. This could be a set-top box, it could be some freeware player on Linux (assuming they license the codec from the standards body), or whatever. You don't need QuickTime player.
As such, it's the only standards-based player. And, the streaming server is available for free, as open source (Darwin Streaming Server), so you can run it on a Solaris box, or a Linux box, or whatever. Plus there are no CALs.
So not sure what the real issue is, here.
I just downloaded and installed the "free" player... Wouldn't be surprised if they recently changed their site to make it easier to download the free version.
The problem that I saw was that it tried to take over my machine:
1. It wanted to change my registry defaults so that real would be the player for any and all media that I use (.mp3,
2. It wanted to put icons everywhere (startup, taskbar, etc.)
3. It asks for a bunch of personal information (WTF? Why do I need to give them that so that I can play their files? Should be illegal.)
Any newbie would be too scared to not change all of their defaults, not put icons everywhere, and not give out their personal information. It doesn't matter if the "free" Real is now easier to install. The player takes advantage of the fact that most people don't understand that all of the above tasks are completely optional. The only free media player out there is MPlayer, and that's the one I'll be using from now on. Let me go and listen to my music in peace.
The Death Penalty: Killing people to show others that killing people is wrong.
I'm sure no 'serious' company would consider it because they don't have their digital rights preserved
Actually the top commercial internet broadcast station on the web offers MP3 and OGG streaming formats. And if you're using Linux, their "listen" page actually reads "Hello Linux User!" and goes on to invite you use one of these streams (each in broadband and dial-up varieties). This is a huge corporation and you all know the name, as "serious" as you can get. I'm not going to kill my feed by posting the name (I listen all day at work and when I get home). Look it up. The point is, saying serious companies don't use OGG and MP3 streams just isn't true. The huge companies "get it", and want every listener they can possibly get.
You can always use the reserved (and therefore hopefully nullrouted) example.com domains as described in RFC 2606, eg info@example.com
This is all very wonderful; so where can I download the QuickTime Player for Linux/SPARC, or NetBSD/StrongARM, or maybe BeOS/PPC or AtheOS/x86 which can play Sorenson-encoded QuickTime files? Oh, download MPlayer you say? That isn't "licenced" to do squat; it's a labour of love from some fine hackers in Hungary. Do you really think they have a licence from Sorenson? Sorry, that answer is incorrect.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Is licensing a significant factor? Isn't MP4 audio supposed to be royalty-free for non-commercial streaming? What are the licensing issues for Real vs QT vs mp3 vs mp4?
Nice end run. Sorensen isn't used as the default codec anymore, it hasn't been the default codec for a couple years. So you're whining about 4 year old archived content?
Get off it.
Why the fuck would I be trolling Mac people? I AM a Mac person. Apple is the only proprietary software vendor I actually admire any more. Sun's sold out to Microsoft, DEC's sold out to Compaq (*shudder*), SGI lost me when they came out with Windows workstations... Apple's the only proprietary software vendor I give a rat's ass about any more.
I do not object to Apple, or to Mac OS X, or to the Mac architecture. I do object to QuickTime, and in particular to the funky proprietary codecs that proliferate through QuickTime files (e.g. Sorenson...)
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
>Additional problems include; Staggering bloat.
I once paid for a full version of Real Player, so long ago that I can't remember the version. It worked fine, and was a decent value for the upgrade from the free version. No longer. "Staggering bloat" is a good description of what has happened to this program. Huge overhead, nags, etc.>An unwelcome background process that insists on reinstalling itself (on windows.) Amateur and petty. It makes me sick. It's supposedly spyware. I don't know if this is the case, but there are rumors.
The folowing are loaded with real player: realevent.exe, rnathchk.exe, and realsched.exe. When you close real player, they remain open or are re-opened. Are they spyware or only auto-update "features"? I really don't need three background processes from a program I closed, regardless.Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
And then, in the virtually ignored fourth corner, we have the stuff that isn't totally assraped by big (or not so big, in Real's case) corporations. MP3. Ogg. Freaking gzipped .AU for all I care. AND NO ONE USES ANY OF THIS STUFF.
Some sectons of the "alternative" media have caught on and are using "alternative" formats. Democracy Now! is one of the best examples--they provide RealMedia, MP3, and OGG versions of their show--and the A-infos Radio Project offers its content in MP3.
But it's still hard to avoid RealMedia. Of the sites I frequent, BBC's excellent On This Day site uses it, MIT's Technology and Culture Forum and UCBerkely's webcast site use it, and the ABC (public broadcaster) here in Australia uses it almost exclusively for their online audio/video content. Thank god for Real Alternative.
"A senior engineer from Real explains how to get RealPlayer 10 to act nicely on one's system." Explain to me why a "senior engineer" is needed to help us make the Real player work properly (by properly I mean in a simply and unobtrusively)? It is refreashing to find that other people are as annoyed with the "hide the free player" game that Real has been playing -- I thought I was the only one.
Actually, some radio stations do. One of my favorites, WLS, in Chicago, offers streaming in Windows Media, Real, and recently they added MP3. They are a very big and popular AM station, they claim they are the most listened to AM talk station on the internet. So there is at least one very large, or serious, company that is willing to use MP3.
Of course, one company doesn't mean everyone is willing, but it certainly is a start. I expect this is easier for talk radio because they own the rights to everything they broadcast (syndication aside) so they are free to let people copy it at will. Of course, a music station has to make an attempt to prevent copying, so even though it would be nice, I don't see them using MP3 or OGG ever.
Hockey - Canada's gift to the world
Yes, dammit, the whole POINT of my rant was about archived content. As in, in 20 years, when I try to play my family movies, and find that I can't because of some past/present corporate fucknuttery.
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
You have many valid points, However, it is one thing to bitch about boo hoo we are locking out culture and herritage up ::cry cry::.. it is another thing to start or help develop a project that will solve this need. Yes this is a very bad thing that is occuring, but I don't see anyone starting an Open Source _video streaming_ projects. Please correctly be if I am wrong. Until this occurs, then there is not going to be a whole lot of sympathy.
At home I have an FM alarm clock radio tuned to NPR, with the headphone jack plugged in to my sound card's line-in jack. At the appropriate time, a scheduler program starts recording from the line-in jack and encoding to an mp3 file in my p2p client's "Shared files" folder. Thus every NPR program is available to me in mp3 format as soon as it goes out over the air. And they are worried about their digital media rights? The horse is out of the barn folks.... let it go.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
I was just mulling over the thought of installing the new Real Player to see if they got over the insane tentacleware complex they seem to have given RP9. According to the reviews on download.com, apparently not. Looks like it'll continue to be Real Alternative for me!
-R
I've been using the JetAudio player for all my media formats, including various real formats. No need to put up with the bs from the real website or its annoying player. Very easy to dowload and use at: http://www.jetaudio.com
Please call or e-mail Minnesota Public Radio, and let them know why you think an open format should be used for streaming content. Here's some reasons I can think of:
* It's pulbic radio, it's funded by taxpayers and supporters, so it's a public resource. All the content should be freely available using open standards
* Open standards like MP3 are supported by the most applications
* Open standards like MP3 are best supported across platforms
* Free software can be used to implement streaming
* They will support the good will of the technically astute in their audience, who are also a source of funding
* Any other good ideas? Here's the contact info, from their web site:
EMAIL
mail@mpr.org
TELEPHONE
General Inquiries: 651-290-1212 or 800-228-7123
An MPR Member/Listener Services associate will answer your call between 8:30 am and 5 pm CT Monday-Friday. Beyond those hours, you may leave a message and your call will be returned within two business days.
MPR Newsroom line: 651-290-1424
News releases may be faxed to the newsroom at 651-290-1295. News tips may be e-mailed to newsroom@mpr.org. E-mail addresses for individual reporters may be found on the newsroom look-up page.
Midmorning or Midday call-in shows: 651-227-6000 or 800-242-2828
We are not able to include emails to shows in progress. If you would like to leave comments for Midmorning, call 651-290-1171.
MAIL
MPR Member/Listener Services
45 East Seventh Street
Saint Paul, MN USA 55101
MEDIA INQUIRIES
Andrea Matthews, 651-290-1303 or amatthews@mpr.org
Suzanne Perry, 651-290-1276 or sperry@mpr.org
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
I think the one thing that bothers me most about Real is their belief that NOTHING is free.
Even in the free player you are paying for it through advertising.
I mean comon, $20 for a visulization plugin for RealPlayer?
Yargh.
This is the second time in two days I've had to defend Real[marcas registrada] from irrational attacks.
The free player download isn't hard to find. You go to Real, you click on the word "Free" in the big orange bubble or the "Download Realplayer" image, then you look on the next page for the words "Download Free RealPlayer" in bold, underlined, hyperlink-blue text taking up the right side of the screen, and you get your software, now (version 10) free of popups and in-yo-face (and possibly free of spyware, but I haven't collected enough sessions to know for sure).
IT'S NOT THAT HARD, AUNT TILLIE!
> but I don't see anyone starting an Open Source _video streaming_ projects.
Ogg Theora
You could try StreamboxVCR. The beta version of this is still available on some sites. Real sued the company and the product was never officially released. The beta version was hacked to prevent a "call-home" feature (which would otherwise prevent it from working now).
Google for StreamboxVCR.
>Um, you do know that Mplayer is made by a merry band of coders from Hungary, don't you?
Um, you do know that Hungary has implemented the Berne convention just like most other countries, don't you?
I am listening to RealPlayer version 6.0 on XP Pro, all current patches (on the OS), on a Dell Dimension 2400 (2.8GHz P4, 1GB RAM). RealPlayer will typically run continuously for well over 24 hours, and never "causes a hard lockup of XP"; the menus work just fine. Methinks you should investigate your platform a little more thoroughly.
As an aside, if you don't want v10 you can find older versions of RealPlayer here.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
And just as fast, the contract they have with Real will say they can only link directly to Real's website/player.
At which point they dump Real entirely. Whoops! Would that be a good idea for Real? I'm thinking not.
Random and weird software I've written.
You mean this file?
While we're at it, where is the download for a free version for Sun Solaris?
/tmp and reentering it from a menu) usually don't work anymore.
The last one I was able to find was 6.0.4.216 (Beta), on their "community supported" subsection, which I installed in May of 1999.
Darned thing doesn't support most of the stream casting sites these days, and even the workarounds that used to work (digging the URL out of the file droppings in
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Adobe Reader is not a good example. In fact, Reader is as bad compared to the included software as RealOne is. I dare you to try Reader and Preview side-by-side for two minutes and tell me you like Adobe's app better. Reader is cludgy, crufty, ugly, and slow.
Ah, I am forgetting my audience. Folks, Preview is the PDF viewer in OS X, and when you see it in action you'll wonder how you ever used Adobe Reader. Try it sometime.
Although loathe to go against the grain of the back patting, I have some issues with your rant.
1. "Audiovisual works are our cultural legacy" Perhaps. The whole concept of "audiovisual works" is relatively new. This is opposed to plays and musical scores, where the important part is the written document, not the performance itself. I personally find the idea of AV as a "cultural legacy" a bit dubious. If we exclude the packrat/archivist version of cultural preservation, there is a kind of Darwinism at work: Good stuff gets preserved, bad stuff gets forgotten. When one considers the amount of total crap that gets produced, who would WANT to preserve it?
2)Media: "Eventually, "dead tree" media will die". Bullshit. I have yet to see a reasoned argument why this will happen. If you have one, serve it up. As for not being able to access some digital media in 20 years: welcome to the present. There is a ton of stuff that is effectively inaccessible due to format changes and media deterioration. Hell, CD-R's are only lasting a short while. In that light, proprietary formats are only another obstacle to the archivist.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
They are a public station, and they aren't even considering Ogg Vorbis, and/or Icecast?
If we can't get even the public stations on board with free and open standards, how will we ever get those standards to spread?
Anyone who lives in the area served by that public station, please write them a letter, and ask them to look into using Ogg/Icecast. Then, instead of providing a link to the Real player, they can provide a link to Winamp. Or even Zinf.
Or maybe even Real's player. I found a bunch of old news items (from 2002) saying that Real was on board with Ogg Vorbis, and the RealOne player would play Ogg Vorbis. And it looks like the new Helix player supports Vorbis. Does Real do a good job now of playing Ogg streams? (The icecast.org web site does not list the Real players as an option, but I suppose it's possible that the web site is out of date.)
And if Real is smart, they will make their player work to play Icecast streams. I'd say the same about Microsoft and Windows Media Player, but I'll bet they can't resist the urge to try to throw roadblocks in the way of the competition.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Um, you do know that Hungary has implemented the Berne convention just like most other countries, don't you?
Um, you do know that the Berne Convention concerns copyrights and not patents, don't you?
Someone you trust is one of us.
Letter from the Bizzaro Universe:
Dear Real,
Thanks for the 14-day Free Trial of your player. I think its really neat you have a free trial of the player I thought was FREE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I was more than happy to pay you a monthly fee, when most content sounds and looks great with the player built into my OS.
And the ads! Oh, how I love the pop ups, the pop unders, the pop overs and the pop music!
I find sometimes I get lonely, and wish that that RealOne omni-present icon would spew more wonderful OFFERS at me. It like the way RealOne is always there, even during the 99.9% of the time I am not watching content with your protocol. It lets me know I am safe.
Do you think it would be possible to hide the free, convenient player even deeper? I can't imagine life without the offers any more.
Enclosed is my personal information, a blood and stool sample, and some DNA, because I think the spyware you install on my pc so I can watch one video a month might not have caught that.
Thanks, and keep the offers coming, dammit I love the offers.
"Sig free in '03!"
The basic problem with media playing software is that there is no proper separation of the player from the codec.
I currently have RealPlayer, Windows Media Player, MusicMatch, iTunes, Quicktime and WinAmp installed on my computer. I only have all these damn players to enable the codecs or features they exclusively support.
Wouldn't it be nice if you could pick a player based on features rather than codec support, and then plug in the codecs you need separately? We wouldn't need to familiarize ourselves with many different crappy interfaces, and the codec companies could specialize in what they do best; streaming media. How do we make this happen?
No, we have two choices: (1) Run Windows and/or Mac OS X and download some spyware-riddled bloatware from Apple, Real (ugh) or Microsoft (DOUBLE ugh), or (2) run any other OS and use a probably-illegal tool like MPlayer.
I'd add that for the latter Real's player is more of an option than in windows. I don't know how it stands on osx, but the linux version of realplayer is OK, if a bit dated. And I'd actually rate their gtk2 helixplayer as being pretty nice.
But, minor nitpicking about players aside, I agree about your main point. I plan on being around a long time, and given the rate at which technology becomes obsolete, I don't trust any company to either last as long as I will or to maintain support for their previous versions that long even if they do last. Anything in real or windows media that I plan on keeping for a while I convert to a more open format - even with the loss of quality that's going to come with it. The peace of mind that comes with knowing I could hobble together a decoder myself if need be is worth it.
Everything will be taken away from you.
So with you it's anything-but-Windows and Apple is the only one left with a system that even comes close to working?
Quicktime is great. It is the only Windows Media Player that continues to thrive, because it is great. Not because the writes have locked in popular content like Real have done by offering Car Talk & others free hosting.
You should recognize that a computer is just a tool, and there are more important ethical questions for you to worry your little mind over.
The nagware notice in the Free Quicktime player is also driving people to other media players when they don't need QT for content compatability purposes.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
My problem with Real Player is that the
few times I've tried to use it to listen
to internet radio stations I can't find
them going through the Real Player. I can
find lots of premium service stations but
no free ones. Maybe they were right in front
of my nose and I just couldn't see the right
button or something.
> RealPlayer is forcing Minnesota Public Radio
> to look towards Windows Media Player as an
> alternative.
My local NPR affiliate, KUOW, does offer it's shows in MP3 format. That means using Linux, MacOS, or Windows, I can listen to their shows using XMMS, iTunes, or CoolPlayer (respectively).
So who/what hell is forcing MPR to look at ANOTHER proprietary solution? Why aren't they being "forced" to look torwards a system agnostic solution?
The pot calling the kettle black.
I couldn't find the Linux download in the hastack for Windows Media or Quciktime. Real: 1, MS, Apple: 0.
At some point at Real, someone noticed they had a payware player and a freeware player. "Hey, maybe if we hide the freeware one, people will buy the payware!" That's real ethical guys. Maybe you'll trick a few people (a lot of people) into paying $29.99 for NOTHING, but I guarantee no one will pay ever again. Quicktime has the right idea with licencing if you ask me. Real is a trashy piece of spyware that contributes nothing to the Internet as a whole. I'd like to see an open standards audio streaming solution be used, but at this point I would just settle for seeing Real file for Chapter 11. (Coming any day now).
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
I don't know whether or not they are still passing out RealPlayer that is simply infested with spyware, but I do know that Google on realplayer and spyware comes up with 22,800 hits. Twenty three thousand instances of people discussing realplayer and spyware in the same breath is enough for me to catch a clue, skip that shit.
Wonder if being associated with SPYWARE has anything to do with their decline in marketshare...
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
Anyone know of reasons why they couldn't use the free QuickTime Darwin server from Apple? Just interested.
i have no legs.
I think webmaster@real.com and postmaster@real.com would be better...
As if public radio (incl. Minnesota PR), while in the midst of the spring national pledge drive, should be complaining about a few mouse clicks to get the free thing.
Faith is the very antithesis of reason, injudiciousness a critical component of spiritual devotion. Jon Krakauer
Who benefits from any of this?...What will happen in 20 years when someone needs to open a .wma file, but .wma has been extinct for a dozen years, and the only program that will open it will be Foobleblatz(R) AudioMasher Pro(TM), a pro-level audio editing tool "with support for over 500 current and previous codecs and encoding formats", for the equivalent of $999.95 2004 dollars? ...What the fuck is our problem?
These are rhetorical questions...right?
What?
When one considers the amount of total crap that gets produced, who would WANT to preserve it?
The crap can often be just as, or even a more interesting guage of a culture than what they consider high art. The latter is along the lines of what the higher class wished they were, the former more along the lines of what the majority of the people were actually thinking.
Everything will be taken away from you.
Yeah... if you completely ignore the definition of spyware, and if your standard for executable size comes from the days when you used a 286-12. Not that many slashbots will even recognize what that is, being too young.
Of course ANY software produced for commercial gain is just wrong - why should programmers expect to be able to eat? If they wanted to make money they should have become doctors or something.
"She spent almost a week going back to the Real Player site looking for the free player version"
oh COME ON, it's not NEARLY that bad. to take a week, I think your friend must be causing puddles of drool on the floor.
Requiring a proprietary protocol would work only for streaming of dynamically encoded data, such as live streaming. The server software for delayed streaming is already free and Free: just create a .ram file (similar to Shoutcast's .m3u file) giving the HTTP URL of the stream. Do you think Real could make enough money off selling licenses for encoders and live streaming servers to fund development of the player? The other players in this market can afford to finance player development from operating system revenue.
And watch admins of sites without live broadcasts pass up the offer: "I don't need no steenkin' $8000 streaming server. I'll just buy the $200 encoder, encode audio and video to static files, and serve them to RealPlayer with Apache HTTP Server, knowing that RealPlayer will stream any HTTP URL referenced in a .ram file." (A .ram file corresponds to Shoutcast's .m3u file.)
There is nothing wrong with the codec pack. What the grandparent is saying is "I installed the codec pack, and shortly after opened the FUNNY.EXE attachment in my email and my computer got messed up. It must have been the codec pack." because everyone knows that is exactly what happened.
And I though an rpm was a RedHat package ;)
Anyway, the RealPlayer for Linux link is right there on the right-hand side... oh wait...
1. A shared folder could simply mean he is sharing it for his LAN.
2. It is NPR. That P in there means that it is public. Not sure if that makes it legal but it's worth looking into.
This "only 3425 clicks away from the home page" stuff is baloney. Why not use http://www.real.com/freeplayer/?rppr=slashdot ?
I never had issues with mega 200 codec packs, always works for me.
XP pro here.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I ended up getting the bloody thing from a mirror, but in return, I will make sure to endorse anything in place of RealAudio -- even .wma.
Is this Real's business model? Drive people away from their technology because nobody can find the damn thing?
free speach
Did you mean: free speech
Yeah, and a search for "Real Player ate my dog" comes up 119,000 hits.
Does that mean that there are 119,000 instances of people discussing Real Player eating their dogs?
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
RealNetwork's fundamental mistake is in trying to control their users, and being slippery in dealing with their users. Everyone understands that they need to make a buck or two to stay in business. But that doesn't mean it's ok to extricate consumers from the driver's seat. Many companies have figured out how to sell with integrity -- why not Real? Examples are Google (Adwords), Salon (Click-through ads or pay subscriptions) and the DivX video codec(3 versions / models) all of which allow users to easily make an informed choice.
Actually that happened to me once. They wouldn't give me a refund or even replace my dog!
You claim them as our 'cultural legacy' now, but how much of the first TV shows are archived? I don't mean from the 60s, I mean when it first started out as test paterns and morality plays. Most of it wasn't saved because it was made as 'make some money, move on.' A more recent example are game consoles - carts were never made to survive for centuries. Many have cheap contacts that'd slowly rub off when placed in the machines, eventually shorting out. CDs have around a 70 year shelf life. Less when exposed to water or child. They weren't made to be used forever - they exist to be used now, thrown away, and make room for more consumer goods.
VCRs weren't even around until ~(the 1980s). Paintings are one-of-a-kinds. The majority of out visual 'heritage' is proprietary, and always has been. It's only in the last few years that we've seen a push to preserve and comodify it.
Not that I disagree, but making these items 'preservable' or even ownable by the consumer is a realitivly new happening, and it will take more then just saying it's our 'cultural heritage' to change producers ideas on distribution.
On May 1, Hungary will join the EU, which means they have to implement the European Copyright Directive. I think life could get very uncomfortable there for people who write code to circumvent DRM technologies. I am not sure what the situation is in Taiwan, but the general principle seems to be that any country that wants to do business with the US needs some local version of the DMCA.
You don't want your audience to be able to go pee?
The cake is a pie
After reading the CarTalk article on Slashdot a few days ago, I decided to download the RealPlayer and was pleasantly surprised that they had improved the process. But that was at work on Windows. Earlier today I wanted to download Real for my Powerbook, but the OS X download still has several pages of forms to fill out and some confusing talk about 14 day free trials. Several of the pages said "You will not be billed" and that freaked me out enough to run back to the BBC's website for their hassle-free download.
I can find it pretty easily, but I know what I'm looking for. I know that it's there. I know that I'm going to have to look for the right link. Most people don't have these advantages. It's the same story at DivX.com, or even QuickTime. There's people that believe they're watching movies illegally because they aren't using QuickTime Pro.
But enough with them - Real has always been the worst offender here. And I'm not suggesting they're bad people, just stupid.
Real could have been a contender, but they couldn't decide on a business model - sell client or sell server - so decided to try selling both. You just can't do that - you have to get one, and use it to get the other.
Maybe have a sideline selling a fancy client, but your bread and butter is getting your client installed everywhere and then milking content providers. Look at the success of MacroMedia. They made it "dead easy" to install Flash, and it pretty much just isn't an issue for most users. Their good plan, and decent software, means they're making money.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Here in Seattle he is the Democrat du jour. Perhaps he is convincing all of his friends in the NPR world to buy his system.... Just a thought.
You're sending them a stool sample? I think that perhaps each of us should send in a stool sample to real and have five friends send in stool samples, with each of them requested to ask five friends to send in stool samples.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
[buffering, buffering] Real Player just can't be beat for the quality of the sou[buffering, buffering]nd quality you'll get out of it. I know that Windows Media Player and Qui[buffering, buffering]cktime and OK too, but only Real Player has all that cr[buffering, buffering]ap spyware and adware to dump all over your system so that you have to edit the registry to[buffering, buffering] get rid of it. When you combine Real Player with MSN high-speed internet and the reliability of Windows XP with [buffering, buffering]Kazaa spyware running 24/7, life is just perfe[buffering, buffering, buffering, buffering, buffering [NO CARRIER]
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
It is not like Microsoft makes it any easier to get windows media. Have you ever tried downloading it from a mac. It is easier to get it from versiontracker.
So the EU is attacking MS for providing the product it wants to provide, and thinks wading through the Real web page looking for the free version, or buying the extra features version is what's good for consumers? Clearly this is not what's best for consumers, but instead what's best for MS's competitors at the expense of MS's rights.
...match any documents.
e =utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=%22Real+Player+ate+my+dog%22
You sure?
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&i
Rocket science is easy. Neurosurgery, now *that's* difficult.
On my web site, I have a button, fomr real, to go get the player... CONCEPT!
My wife doesn't listen to me either...
Nobody likes WMV except for pimply geeks with no exposure to real life.
Er, remove the quotes. I put the query in quotes to separate it from the rest of the text. My mistake.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
the acrobat reader ... does what it is supposed to and nothing more
I wouldn't say that Acrobat reader does only what it's supposed to do. It's one hell of a resource hog. Upgrading from Acrobat 5, I find that 6 takes approximately 3X the time to load because of all of the default (read: useless) plugins.
Fortunately, you can disable most of the unused features and get it almost as fast as previous versions.
I personaly hate Real*! I am currently working on a PHP Jukebox that is as secure as any WMV, ASF or RAM. I use a method that only allows the PHP server to read the file so you can not directly link to it, and it FORCES streaming. Of course you can still capture the stream with software, but you can also define which software packages to allow access or specify ones to denie access. Once I have a fuly usable beta I will aply for space on sourceforge.
Incidentaly any form of media that can be streamed is compatable, this included mpeg, ogg and many many others. I think companies are just to lazey and the RIAA has stricken Terror into businesses trying t use MP3. I personaly think that makes them Terrorists and they should be tried as suck, but since the USA is no longer a Democracy, yes that is right your vote does not matter, the electoral college will over rule you. Insted we are a diplomatic country controled by Mega-Corp Conglomerates.
Reading the posts above just warms my heart. The trolls, the flamers, the me-toos, the RTFAs, and even the bad jokes all are united in one voice. No other topic has joined slashdotters together in such harmony. We should all be very grateful to Real for such a tremendous gift.
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
For us newbies out there, what is a simple (simple for newbies, if possible) way of capturing a Real stream, or a wm(?) whatever stream so that I can archive it for my own use later (which would normally fall under fair use, unless you ask Cary Sherman or Jack ($100 tax on blank tapes, VCR/Boston Strangler to women comparison aside) Valenti)?
I am getting truly disgusted by all of this ridiculous pushing of proprietary standards. SCREW THIS. What will happen in 20 years when someone needs to open a .wma file, but .wma has been extinct for a dozen years, and the only program that will open it...
What audio/video formats that were around in 1984 that can not be opened in any of the major media players on the market today? Not that there were many around back then, but I would say that, overall, the industry has done a pretty good job of supporting the older formats.
Not that I'm in disagreement with your post.
Except for the horrible UI and customer service, most things on the back end of their products is pretty nice. I've subscribed to Real Rhapsody for 6 months and enjoy it very much. I also have used their music store in Real Player 10 and it's pretty good.
Back to the horrible customer service: one time I had to call them over a billing problem, the guy tried to tell me it was all my fault and it would take two weeks to undo. Whatanass. Anyway, I was like "RIght, you guys take 30 seconds to charge me, then when I ask for my money back, you say it will take 2 weeks. Nice scam." He started arguing with me over this being a scam. Long story short, I got the money credited back the next day.
...but it just took all of 40 seconds from the time I hit "enter" after typing "www.real.com" in my browser to the time the download window appeared asking where I wanted to store the *free* RP10. Of course I cancelled though. But really, is it all that difficult?
You have reached this web page by typing "example.com", "example.net", or "example.org" into your web browser.
These domain names are reserved for use in documentation and are not available for registration. See RFC 2606, Section 3.
another way to go (which will work with ANY streaming media) would be to say, go grab a program, any program, that records the mixer on your sound card. Set it up to record whatever the output is to a file, then just sit there and record it as it's comming out, and then you got yourself the stream.
Hell, get yourself rhapsody for like $10 a month (written and programmed by Listen not Real) and that same $10 a month gets you all the songs you can record. All you gotta do is listen to the song and push stop after it's done.
As far as I'm concernened it's the same thing as recording off the radio.
Just don't call Tech Support for help, because as far as they know (or more likely can tell you without losing their job) you can't do it.
MY recommendation for Windows users?
1. Install legitimate QuickTime, because it's not intrusive (no registration requirements for free version) and legal. You can also update the codecs legally and easily with the QuickTime Updater, rather than waiting for QT Alternative releases.
2. Install Real Alternative, because the actual Real Player IS intrusive. However, it's illegal. You are forced to wait for Real Alternative releases when it comes time to update your codecs, but this is better than having Real Player do it for you, considering the registration requirements.
3. Update the MPC that comes with Real Alternative and play all files in it. It will recognize the legitimate QuickTime codecs and use them as easily as it recognizes Real Alternative.
4. Install ffdshow. Let it handle XviD and DivX. Alternatively install actual XviD decoder of your choice if you want to keep up with enhancements in the development releases without depending on updates to ffdshow, and let ffdshow use that decoder instead of its internal decoder. If ffdshow is too complex for you, look at 3ivx for handling multiple MPEG-4 codecs.
5. Install Windows Media 9 codec standalone package (not necessarily the full Windows Media Player 9 package). If you're on Windows 2000 or W98SE, stick to WM6.4 and just update the codecs. If you're on anything newer, you may as well upgrade from your shitty WM7 or WM8 to WM9....it's actually a little better than these two in terms of staying out of your way.
Now you can deal with almost anything that comes your way. Install AC3Filter for DVD audio, while you're at it.
First, we're excited to be working with Car Talk. We've read the heated mail from Car Talk fans about older versions of RealPlayer. Below we show that our new RealPlayer 10 doesn't do any of the things that some users of older versions complained about. We think our new RealPlayer 10 is, beyond a doubt, our friendliest and best player yet. Please try it and see for yourself. If you don't like it, let me know directly. You can reach me right here. Erika Shaffer Director, PR Real.com Complaint #1: Real puts icons all over the place. Real's current software lets you choose where it puts icons. During installation, you choose among three possible locations for icons. Real won't put any icons where you don't want them. Complaint #2: You made it hard to find the free RealPlayer. The free RealPlayer is easy to find. You can find it with no more than two obvious clicks from the top www.real.com page, but for Car Talk folks there's a special shortcut to the free RealPlayer! Complaint #3: The player associates with every media file there is. RealPlayer leaves this up to your choice, too. During installation, we ask you what media types you want to play using the RealPlayer--and we stick to what you say. If you install another player that takes a media type that has already been associated with RealPlayer, we will ask you the next time you launch RealPlayer if you want to revert to what you told us during installation-- and then you can tell the RealPlayer to never ask you again. Additionally, you can change your preferences through the RealPlayer's "Tools>Preferences" tab any time. Complaint #4: Real was trying to sell me stuff. RealPlayer 10 lets you turn off all content and sales messages -- those little windows with messages from us that show up in the player or a message window while you are using your computer. You can very easily do this during the initial setup of the player, or later by changing your preferences. If you want to receive some kinds of messages, but not others, you can say so. You can even turn off the message that notifies you that an upgrade of the player is available, though we think you should leave at least that one on. Complaint #5: RealPlayer was filled with pop-ups Pop-ups are gone from the RealPlayer. So long! Some of our content partners may have pop-ups as part of their web pages and these may appear in the player as you navigate to websites. Internet Explorer may make it look like the pop-ups are from us, but they're not. Complaint #6: Real was installing other programs and unwanted junk We don't install anything without very explicitly asking you. There are no hidden check boxes or 'below the fold' offers that are on by default. If we have something that we feel might be of interest to you, we will ask you explicitly in the install process and enable you to choose to not install it. We're excited to be working with Car Talk and want you to have the best possible experience with this great programming. We've worked hard to create the best RealPlayer experience ever and if something's not working for you, don't hesitate to contact us. Thanks!
http://www.nrmfk.com
I'm also nervous about codec packs. I used to install Nemo's Codec Pack a couple of years ago, but at a certain point, if I used it at all, it left my machine unable to do anything very well, especially it screwed up DV codecs.
I'm sure there are codec packs that work, but then again, all I really ever need is my DVD player, DivX and XviD, and I'm done.
I just installed Real Alternative this morning for the first time, and I must say, I have now installed RP for the very last time, it's RA for me from now on!
As much as anything, it's because I've always LOVED media player classic, and hated the new media player with all the happy-assed skins and junk. I was able to get it nearly back to normal once, but you push the wrong button and it starts looking like a refugee from Star Trek.
For those that do not wish to have all the advertising that comes with RealPlayer, Real does offer an alternative player. It is their RealPlayer Enterprise. It is supposed to be for workplace environment and as such comes without the advertising. http://www.realnetworks.com/products/rpe/index.htm l
At the player project on helixcommunity you should be able to find an early milestone build for Solaris on Sparc.
Downloads
The Solaris x86 build is still being worked on in the community, and your help will be greatly appreciated. You can see the status of HelixPlayer on several platforms here:
Platforms
--
You sound like you're dying to be liberated...
n/t
Well, you shouldn't have installed the Nemo Codec Pack, and I KNOW that's the one your talking about, it causes your encoded MPEG-1 Video files to be mirrored upside down, and jerky.
Yep, Nemo Sucks. K-Lite Codec Megapack...I haven't seen any problems yet...aside from it turning my WAV volume all the way down when I try to play real media content....which is no big deal.
Make America grate again!
However Acrobat takes forever to load. Plus if one is browsing with multiple pages open, Acrobat useally locks up if one opens' multiple Acrobat pages.
Look at the acrobat reader - it's free, easy, multi-platform and does what it is supposed to and nothing more
Have you tried version 6? It's getting to be an annoying nagware product. It uses up 38MB on load, displays ads in the upper right, nags me (on occasion) to download new components that I don't want (Adobe Atmosphere Player? Adobe Photoshop Album Starter Edition?).
I should have never upgraded from version 5.
Probably.
That's what those 119,000 people get for not unchecking the "eat my dog" box when they installed RealOne.
I disagree. I think, just like two other proprietary players, Quicktime prospers entirely mostly it is proprietary. Of course, the fact that it doesn't bombard you with ads or force to upgrade helps, but I don't think that's the most important. If Quicktime (and especially codecs) were really open, many alternatives would emerge, just like with MPEG, AVI and MP3. There is Quicktime Alternative, but one player simply isn't strong enough to get wide adoption.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Only losers install stuff like Nemo's codec pack. Anyone with a brain would just install the filter/codec he needs.
Nemo's blasts all known filters on your system. Losers who choose 'install all' then find that the Matrox G400 filter causes all AVI's to play upside down.
Fuck em, I say. They should have installed FFDshow instead.
RTK radio in Malta is a church radio station. It used to do mp3 internet streaming for quite some time, but the "management" of the time decided to break the contract with the webmaster of the time to set up a contract with another company. The new site isn't even listed in google and they do streaming via windows media now. The old site was multi-lingual too and dynamic, the new one isn't at all - it's just a flash thing.
I also quite like BSPlayer that comes with it.
One problem with these trade treaties is that they excite absolutely no excitement from the public. Developing countries have other problems to worry about. The content industry lobby gets its own way, no matter what a mess it leaves the law.
Another problem is that most of the world is forced to make all of the same mistakes. It will take another treaty to undo the mistake even if governments recognise it as such and by then the vested interests will be stronger. They will threaten lawsuits demanding compensation for "confiscation" of the rights they should never have been given. That is why copyright term is always rounded up.
Real considers CarTalk to be such an important customer that they made a special download page just for them! It is an easy instant download, with no clutter or advertisements.
http://www.real.com/freeplayer/?rppr=cartalk.com
Now why can't Real just put up this page for everybody? Sadly, if you visit the main site at real.com, you still get the maze of high-pressure sales offers for their "pro" and subscription versions.
BTW, I have found that you can change "rppr" field of the above URL to whatever you want (instead of "cartalk.com") but it can't be left blank. Real will probably put in referrer checking, to prevent people from publishing this link everywhere, so use it while you can....
Dr. Demento On The 'Net!
Yeah, in general I do that. I used Nimo strictly because it had a couple of codecs that I couldn't find anywhere else. Once I realized how dangerous it was, I used it carefully to install only the one codec I needed, and used the normal codec installs for everything else.