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Satellite Radio Subscriptions Rising
aSiTiC writes "Apparently, satellite radio is finally catching on. I'm an avid internet radio listener on stations such as KEXP, BBC 6Music and SomaFM. I am looking for a more portable alternative and I wonder if eventually my favorite MP3/RM/WMA internet stations will be ever be carried on satellite."
Just setup a radio with WiFi access, and a good antenna, and hop on to unsecure networks! No one will notice... probably.
I subscribe to XM, and have a recurring problem. 200 channels and still nothing good to listen too. Satellite radio will never surpass a case of CDs and a CD player, and will always be a niche market.
I recently received an XM radio. I used to be unimpressed with these services but the breadth of radio stations is actually quite good. With C-NET and Headline news I can keep up on events quite easily. The quality is phenomenal and it has become a cool way to find out about a lot of music I wouldn't otherwise be exposed to.
I have not had any experience with SIRIUS yet. Can anyone here attest to it's quality?
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troll blacklist. Please mo
I am sure that someone like Sirius or Delphi could pound out a deal with Shoutcast or live365 so that certain stations like SomaFM: Groove Salad and the real popular ones could be broadcast over satelite. I am also sure that if anyone does this that their subscription rates would top their competitors by about a month after they introduced this. Furthermore, it could really ignite a grassroots movement for internet broadcasters to try to become Satelite broadcasters. The entire market would improve.
As Satellite Radio becomes more popular, watch for in increase in ads / spam a la The Internet.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
I don't play MMORPG's because I don't wanna pay to play something I've already bought. Same with XM radio. The biggest jump for me is the leap of faith that I'll like the music. I listen to my local college station so I can get in some good punk rock listening. When they're not on the air, I usually do classical. Since I'm sure they have classical, it begs the question:
Do they have a punk station? If so, what kind of punk?
yaawwwwnn.. no articles on India today.
Just add the advertisements back in, and charge $0 like with regular radio.
As it is now, I have plenty to listen to on radio, between the right-wing windbags and NPR ("Rush 'n' Rehm").
I've had cable TV since 1968 thanks to FCC regulations preventing broadcasters from serving my area (that is, I could not get TV any other way). However, there is plenty on the radio dial at this time for me, no need for pay radio.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Sat radio providers have some sort of responsibility similar to network providers' uptime responsibility. By providing access to internet-based 'radio' stations, they are allowing for the possibility that a customer, paying a monthly subscription, would try to listen to one of these stations, only for it to be out of service for one reason or another.
Now whether or not such an outage would be XM's (sirius, etc) fault, the average user would blame XM because it wasn't "just working" like average users need.
The stations that they're broadcasting right now are substantial and well-backed enough so that the sat providers need not worry about such issues. And even if that's not enough, they probably have contracts that ensure (or at least offer financial relief in lieu of) such reliability.
For those wanting to know this is their website. And these are the channels they carry.
Unless you're an NPR fiend or a news junkie, you should probably just buy an iPod and connect it to your car stereo in the best way possible (CD changer cable, aux-in jack, cassette adapter, etc).
No recurring subscription, no worries about them ever sticking commercials in down the road-- just the exact music you want, when you want it.
And all you "but the battery will die in only 18 months" trolls can just shut the fuck up now, I don't want to hear it.
XM is only 9.95 a month (after hardware investment) and so far I have heard my favorite band, XTC, more than I ever did on commercial radio. Listening to Dead Kennedys right now.
Of course if you don't want to listen to Sat radio then head to the Future of Rock and Roll at WOXY.COM. 97X - BAM! The Future of Rock and Roll (As seen in Rainman!). They stream over the 'net and are playing such delicious artists right now like the New Pornographers, Beulah and the Twilight Singers. Find THAT on your local alterna-pop, cock-rock rotating channel owned by the Borg (read: Clear Channel).
Sadly Clear Channel DOES have a stake in XM.
Financials are actually improving as well. Stocks look good.
I wonder if eventually my favorite MP3/RM/WMA internet stations will be ever be carried on satellite.
No. Ha ha. Tough shitola dude.
I think that there are two major types of people who would be interested in paying for satellite radio.
First are those in rural markets with few radio stations and little variety at that. If the radio in your market/region is not to your taste, and you do a substantial amount of driving, then this may be worth the subscription.
If you travel heavily on the road, then it also may be worth it. As a student who travels from Philadelphia to Maine more than monthly, I regularly feel the need to have a constant set of stations available to me while in the car. It's generally not too bad, since I'm in the East Coast Metropolis, but I can imagine in other regions of the US this being a substantially intriguing idea.
"Wireless iPod"?
Possibly integrated with your cellular phone?
Pick a song from a (big) list and have it downloaded over GPRS, billed with your phone like a call or MMS, recorded in your player's memory/drive. Anywhere, anytime. No desktop computer required.
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old enough to remember ON tv, we can see whats coming.
ON tv was on of the first cable TV. it cam with a set top box that had a knob with 2 positions ON and OFF. change to chanel 3 or 4, turn it on, instant commercial free movies, no restrictions.
Copar it to cable TV now. there is a lot more channels, but most of them have commersials. If you want to see something commercial free, you have to pay more on top of your basic service.
Satalite radio will go the same way. within 8 years, you'll have commercial, unless you pay for premium content.
There is a lesson in there, somewhere.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I've had Sirius since this past march and I have to say that I'm a big fan of the content, but not as big a fan of the sound quality. The Sound quality on the music stations shows quite a bit of obvious compression artifacting. Also, the techo stations seem to have an obscene amount of bass boast present.
/month :-)
All in all though, I've been rather happy with it and I'll gladly continue to fork over the 12.95
-Chris
--an unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys--
i actually thought this would be a good idea for nullsoft/aol to do, is create a simple car sattelite internet connection with an internet radio dingy to connect to any of your favorite shoutcast or even your home music collection mp3 streamed server.
i'm chock full of ideas!
Used an XM radio once, nice idea, really poor selection of stations.
"Hot hits from KISS-XM!", top 40s, classic rock, all the usual music that you will hear on some Clearchannel radio station in Anytown, USA.
News from CNN and Fox news, which I can get from dozens of different sources, all of whom report the exact same stories with the same opinions.
Not very revolutionary.
Really, what makes XM better then the zillions of crap commercial radio stations already available in my area?
Unfortunately, I can't listen to internet radio from work. Sysadmins don't want me to use that bandwidth (or rather, me and the 200 other employees). Can't listen to internet radio from the car either...
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
I live out in the middle of nowhere, and I go on a lot of road trips. For us, here at home, XM Radio has been a lifesaver. I'm listening to Fred right now, they're running the top 1600 alternative tracks of all time. How can that be bad?
.. I'm not likely to switch now) .. or at least KCRW in LA (I miss Nick Harcourt.. I stream occasionally, but it's not the same). I use streamripper to grab what I can and make lots of mix CDs.
I wish they would add NPR (I know the competition has it
If I moved to the city tomorrow I'd keep XM. I might even consider adding Sirius. It's not that expensive, and since I don't watch television and don't pay for cable/satellite, satellite radio captures all my discretionary subscription dollars.
That, Shoutcast and Netscape Radio keep me awfully happy. Live 365 too. Yeah!
Oops. Seems like I accidentially stepped into troll-owned territory. Please excuse this karma whore dropping his droppings where they don't belong. --SF.
If you don't have portability in mind there's also DMX Music
If your interests in music fit in a small miche, you may be better served by CD's. That doesn't work for news, hovever.
I was talking about this the other day. Satellite Radio is not something that most people need, unless you're in a part of the country without much solid radio coverage. What most people need, and would find far more useful, is RadioTivo. A product which could record your favorite shows when they're on and let you play them back at your discretion.
A friend was recently telling me about a show on NPR which plays bad cover songs... now that sounds great! However, I'm really not in the car often enough to chance onto finding it, so I'll probably never hear it. But with RadioTivo, I could tell it to seek and record those programs which interest me and skip the trash. Just imagine being able to listen to your favorite morning disk jockey at any time during the day, and with no commercials! You could have RadioTivo record a few days of your favorite station (not a problem because the amount of space required to record broadcast radio on your RadioTivo is minimal) and skip not only commercials, but those songs you don't like. In fact, we could have our high tech researches program RadioTivo to understand when one song ends and the next begins and add a Skip to the next song button. RadioTivo is the answer.
Am I the only person who's thought of this? I've never heard anyone mention it before. Too bad I don't have the patience or the capital to make this happen. Oh well, I'll send Tivo an email and the sue them when they come up with the idea on their own.
I hearby copyright the concept of RadioTivo (although clearly not the name, someone else holds the copyright to that.)
--
RumorsDaily
The 24-hour CNET Radio died quite a while ago. CNET no longer controls 910 KNEW Oakland or 890 WBPS, and the web stream has been kicked back to the semi-regular 5-minute bursts that they had back when they first started.
:)... It's a ghost of its former self and is just screaming for XM to consolidate Online Tonight into one of its other talk formats to free up the channel slot. They'll likely do it the next time they realign the channels, but since that's only happened once so far it's hard to tell when they'll do that again.
The "CNET Radio channel" on XM is now David Lawrence's 3-hour synidcated show (that CNET never owned, they just rented) called Online Tonight and that's it. The same 3 hour show repeated 8 times a day.
I am assuming it was a typo. perhaps 1978?
Yes, it was 1968, not 1978. It was not part of a larger cable company: just a local business that put huge antenna masts on the hills and sold us these on a full TV dial along with one of those channels were the camera went back and forth forever panning weather dials.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
When my mother, who's not technically enclined, told me the other day "your dad is getting me xm radio". seems to be getting more mainstream, as people are getting sick of the crap that plagues our airwaves at the moment.
Sadly Clear Channel DOES have a stake in XM.
What is wrong with that? Don't believe the hype about Clear Channel. Did you know that they only control about 8% of the radio stations in the United States?
Also, did you know that they do not even control the majority of stations in large markets (a typical sitution would be a city with 14 radio stations.... 3 of which are owned by Clear Channel)
dude, stop copying your posts out of the anti-slash karma whore database
Ok, I can either pay $10 a month to hear music from some good bands I will never be able to see live, or buy a CD from, or I can listen to the local college station, for free, and listen to some good local bands that might have grown up down the street, sell their CDs for $5 at the local record store (and hand them out free at their shows) and play at the local bars.
Sure XM radio does sound nice, I can listen to my style music wherever I go and it'll be commercial free. But I already listen to my style music, with no real commercials (a bunch of public service announcements and news about upcoming shows, but nothing advertising mcdonalds or anything like that.) And the music I listen to on a local college station is usually LOCAL music. Unless it's really good music from somewhere else.
I dunno, I'm probably just weird, but there's a connection to the local college station that I feel when I listen to it. I wouldn't get that same connection with satellite radio. It's like watching CNN over the local news, they both report the same news, except CNN is more generalized and in depth, the local news is going to have the same news as CNN including local events.
More detailed listing here(include samples)
Why, oh why did you just link to SomaFM????
Now it's going to get slashdotted and raped because it's run on donations.
Thanks alot!!
CmdrTaco has publically stated that he doesn't give a shit about sites getting slashdotted.
I agree with you though. There is no reason why information can't be mirrored (don't paste FAQ links at me, they are factually incorrect).
I will never pay money to listen to the radio. Granted, it may be commercial free now, but how long do you think that will last? Not long. Cable TV used to be like that until there was a massive enough audience to justify advertising expenses. Right now, the primary reason why there is no advertizing on sattilite radio is due to the lack of audience to advertize to.
I will never pay money to watch TV, or listen to the radio. I could really give a crap less if the signal is clearer, and there are more channels to choose from. If I can't pick up TV free over the air, or radio, I will just start watching more movies, and listen to my CD's. I won't pay for garbage when I can get the same old shit for free.
How good do you think your reception will be in the mountains? You won't pick up squat. The sattilites are going to be blocked by the mountains, and you will not get any signal. If you don't belive me, biuld a brick wall in front of your DishTV feedhorn, and see how much you pick up. You either get crystal-clear reception, or none. At least wih analoque brodcasts, I can pick it up almost anywhere. There may be some static, but not total loss of signal. The same goes with HDTV, but that is a completly different subject.
Get your free Dropbox account with 2 GB Free storage!
I got an XM Roady for Christmas. I have a 12 hour drive between my Oklahoma City appartment, and my parent's home in El Paso. I also have a 6 hour drive between OKC and my other home in Austin. (The one that I don't visit often enough.)
Yesterday, my dad and I installed the system in my car. (We also installed his identical system in his truck.) Both systems activated, and I spent the 12 hour drive today giving it a thorough workout. (About five hours of the drive between El Paso and OKC is out of range of any FM radio station.)
I never turned it off for the entire drive. I was switching between Channels 44, 47, 22, and the news channels for the entire drive. I'm not a big media junkie. I don't have cable, and my TV is still in the moving box where it's resided for six months. I'm thoroughly enjoying this service though. It has a good variety, and so what if some of the stations have short playlists? There are just as many others with very long and varied playlists. (Just stay out of Ch. 20-29.)
If you spend a lot of time on travel like I do, this can be a God-send. I can also pull the system out of my car and take it with me out of town. If you spend lots of time in the car, it's great. And finally, if you're a news junkie like I am, you have a choice between CNN, CNN Headline, ABC, FoxNews, BBC, and a couple of others.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
...to create a wireless P2P music player.
:)
Connect to WiFi network and access one of major P2P networks as a generic node sharing all your songs, download new ones. Or connect through WiFi to someone else with the same kind of player, download his songs from his player, let him download your songs, and if he has access to the net or someone with songs you want, use his player as a relay
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Hey, where's that Beagle 2 station? I wanna hear Blur!
I got Sirius because I commute, and let me tell you, it's absolutely wonderful. If you think that satellite radio is only a niche market, I guess commuters are a niche market. The Merrian-Webster dictionary defines niche has d) a specialized market. I spend every day on Interstate 405 driving to work. I'd hardly consider the thousands of people who commute over that freeway a niche market. Anyhow, enough of that rant...
Yes, it's $12.95/mo, and XM is $9.95. For that $3, I get more channels and NO commercials (other than telling me about Pam Anderson's radio show).
It's also nice to drive from my place in Los Angeles to see my family in Bakersfield and never have to change my station.
I still carry CDs with me, but thanks to Sirius, I get exposed to new music and buy more CDs (the record companies should be happy about that)...
Cel phone service by satellite - how could it lose? Seamless coverage everywhere on the globe.
Turned out that after launching 72 Iridium satellites Motorola found themselves very broke.
Is it possible that Sirius and XM will find the same thing - that the demand for pay as you go radio is significantly less than hoped? 1.2 million subscribers is a pretty small base to support the kind of technology they need.
Three Squirrels
...commercial free now, but how long do you think that will last? Not long. Cable TV used to be like that
I've been watching cable TV on and off since 1968, and have seen the offerings in many different markets over the years. Every one of them was chock full of commercials (with only some channels being commercial-free)
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
On some of the channels. But even there, it's far fewer than on regular radio.
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Which is, after all, most of the country. FM is line of sight, AM is a wasteland. So unless you're in or near a city, there's not much good on. I used to live in Utah and except for Salt Lake there wasn't much, if anything, on the radio. Down in Cedar City, where I lived, you had one pop station, one classic rock, one country top 40, and NPR. Oh, and a college station which you could hear on some of the campus, if you had properly propitiated the radio gods first, if school was in session. I would've loved to have had XM then.
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Originally FM radio rarely had any ads. Premium pay cable channels didn't have any
Has anything changed? I remember HBO in the mid 1970s having no commercials other than endless "HBO is also showing this..." promos. Last time I checked HBO, they still did not have commercials other than the still endless "HBO is also showing this..." promos. Have advertisements crept in and I missed it?
The only thing I've seen change with HBO is the content. HBO in the 1970s and 1980s used to fill their schedule with movies so bad that they were never released in theatres. Now they have a lot more of the "drama that is below even UPN standards, but we think it's cool because there is lots of swearing in it."
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
There is the old lie again. I suggest you check into the numbers, market for market, for any of these "urban markets". What you will typically find is a couple of dozen radio stations, with several out of the total owned by Clear Channel.
In fact, you will find that Clear Channel might control one out of five of a large number of radio stations in a market, not "all" of them. There is a difference. Go do some counting.
Let's check this with sample markets:
Pittsburg: 40 total radio stations. 6 Clear Channel
Orlando: 39 total radio stations. 7 Clear Channel
Dallas: 59 radio stations, 6 Clear Channel.
Sacramento: 48 radio stations, 4 Clear Channel.
It is the same on every market I check.
Clear Channel has about as much a monopoly on radio as Apple has on the desktop computer OS market.
If Digitally Imported and all its channels are carried, I'll subscribe today!!
6Music really is the only decent station in the UK. I fear that when DAB becomes more mainstream it will suffer the same fate as Radio 1 & 2 - becoming overly populist with the less Radio Friendly DJs being sidelined and eventually dropped. The best thing about 6Music is that the DJs don't have an overt ego, but simply like playing eclectic, new music.
Anyone who does a fair bit of travelling in a car can tell you that talk radio is a much better companion than music after about 3 hours. Previously I had a head unit that could play mp3-cds and I would routinely fill a disc withb audiobooks or clips from my favorite radio program (Howard Stern) which proved to be an invaluable trip companion. I thought the lack of mp3-cd capability would be awful for me, but XM is filling the gap nicely. There's lots to chose from -- ESPN for Sports, CNN and Fox News for headlines, and E! and Discovery radio for other special interest programming. The other night I had to drive around the block a few times as the Jesse Ventura E! True Hollywood Story finished. So, if you are looking for XM for music, you will be pleasently surprised but not blown away. For talk radio, it really is tough to beat, especially when you don't have to worry about losing signals as you move around.
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Take it sleazy,
-The Shockmaster
mod parent up, it's true.
P
Which is, after all, most of the country. FM is line of sight
Line of sight? Really? Then I guess I can see 300 miles on a good day.
The universe is a marble in a jar of marbels in another universe, and it continues like that forever............ Think about it.... -_-
I've been a Sirius subscriber for about the last year and have been very happy with it.
Commercial free music stations along with a few others (comedy, NPR, old time radio) has made long drives much more bearable.
To me it's even worth it when I'm in town...commercial free radio with more variety than the few CDs I keep in the car it outweighs the cost.
What's the difference between an orange?
...I have to ask people; What ever happened to the idea of advertiser paid radio? Or television? As it is right now, I have DirecTV but it REALLY irks me that I pay almost $50 a month and STILL have to endure commercials. For that amount of money, everything I get should be commercial free. And now they want people to pay for radio while still hitting you with adverts? Things are going to hell in a handbasket for the common man and he doesn't even realize it. The only reason I have DirecTV is for the few decent programs that are on and the fact that it's cheaper than the shitty digital cable in my area. And don't even bring up the subject of the fact that there is a near monopoly in the satellite TV biz... The only choices you have as a "Joe Average" are DirecTV and The Dish Network. DirecTV is owned by Fox (blech!) and The Dish Network used to (not sure now) be owned by some ridiculous christian asses that wanted to make sure that the programming was "wholesome". Sorry, but I'm not happy with the ida that IFC was not carried on the Dish Network in the past.
/. and I've even been having my own issue with /. for the past few years.
One of the reasons I was very happy with all the stuff that WAS happening with internet radio back in the 90s was that it gave me choice and I didn't have to pay for it. No one did. I paid for my ISP and that entitled me to access anything on the net I wanted that was legit. (I'm not a pirate which is why I use Linux and rip all my own Ogg Vorbis files from CDs I buy) Now, there's only a handful of internet radio worth listening to. And much of it has also gone the pay route, so I've had to abandon some.
Wake up PEOPLE!!! You are being led down the path to ownership. Not YOU owning something, but someone else owning you! It's no surprise to me that I've become more and more of a hermit along with my wife. We isolate ourselves from America's fucked up society and it's "culture" more and more every day. That's why I do nearly everything myself. I can't accept paying people ridiculous amounts of money for goods and services that just aren't worth it. About the only things I can really justify are my water, gas, electric and ISP bills. I wouldn't have a cell phone, but since my company pays for it, I do. In general they just aren't worth it. I can't really justify the $50 a month to DirecTV though. BBC America, with it's few interesting programs (where's the Doctor Who?) isn't worth $50 a month. Neither is VH1 Classic, IFC, Sundance or Turner Classic Movies. But all of those channels are about all I watch. Cartoon Network sucks heavily now. So does SciFi, and the "new" AMC bites choad so hard it's astounding. I mean WHO are they doing marketing research with to determine that we want nothing but crap? TechTV? JESUS! That's about the worst example of info for armchair techies of "technology-lite". They've got nothing on
Ahhh well... another post that will probably get modded down. At this point, who cares? There are more important problems to attend to... like getting George W. Bush out of office.
Un-news
The atomic number of iridium is 77, not 72.
So i researched these for my wifes birthday (today as a matter of fact, along with mine as well.. heh.. yeah same bday..)
,and it has nothing to do with clearchannel. the hardware was a little more limited, but i still prefer them.
Sirius has no commercials on the music feeds
we tried to get the audiovox pnp2 unit (house/car portable bit), but the cigarette lighter in the car wasnt connected, so i went with a panasonic head unit.
after a bunch of wiring later, it all worked.. except for the antenna.. it had a bad wire.. but after replacing that it worked very well..
so i really like the overall sound quality.. arguably, this is in a jeep wrangler, so it's not perfect, but it's better than the crummy mp3 discs i usually listen too..
The feeds are good, wide variety, good talk channels, very very few dropouts in austin texas. Truly the way music was meant to be listened too..
Not all radio programming is about pumping the latest hit song into the ears of the masses.
-- $SIGNATURE
NO commercials (other than telling me about Pam Anderson's radio show).
She has a radio show? What's the bloody point?
You can't see her. Strike one.
Who gives a shit what she has to say? Strike two.
You can't see her. Strike three.
DON'T DO IT!
Remember free tv? Now we are all hostage to cable companies for our tv, broadcast is a joke. Yeah, you can do it, but lets face it, few do.
Don't make our future include "remember free radio?" Boycot this stupid idea.
Yeah, no commercials, I know. Right. That'll last until quarterly profits start slipping and they can't raise rates anymore.
on the sat cahnnels is BBC. the rest is regurgitated cable crap. both siri and the other one XM, are headed the satelite phone way. what's next satelite toaster? I don't believe that this would really take off.
So... we've moved from pay-per-use (performances pre-dating records) to 100% fair use, to limited fair use (pay for the music, use it how they want), to unlimited-use subscriptions. Soon the unlimited subscription service will be segregated into levels where you have to pay out of your ass to get anything worthwhile. Following that, it'll probably land back to a pay-per-use scheme. Of course, all alternatives like FM radio, MP3's, Internet radio, garage bands, etc., will have been stomped out from the greedy industry execs by then...
I work in the world's biggest independent Radio Station in Woodstock. This is exactly what we need....!
this show only lasts about 2 minutes per week, but you can hear some good examples of it at NPR at anytime.
Go to NPR and search for "Jim Nayder" (use the quotes)
you will find many examples of archived Weekend Edition shows with "special" Annoying Music Show sets you can listen to (Real Audio or WMP, sorry...)
I like microcars
Since XM has more than 2 million songs stored in its databases, I rather doubt that you could carry that much around, no matter how good your compression scheme. They have several large databases, the largest of which is 28TB, spinning hard disks.... And they plan to increase this substantially. Their setup would make your average geek drool. Every studio or workstation has access to every one of the song titles, even if you are in one of the remote studios in New York or Nashville.
More to your point, I own a little over 1400 CDs and I still subscribe to XM. WHY? Because I can never own all of them, nor do I have time to audition every new one that comes out. XM's folks do listen to all of them - and the good ones get airplay. Even the ones not signed by a label. It seems to me I have more control than I have ever had before - I am exposed to a very wide varity that I have never heard before.
Iridium needed a worldwide network of satellites with decent bandwidth and lots of other features. XM uses a couple satellites, Sirius probably the same. They only cover North America and only have a limited bandwidth that they need to provide. Maybe they could even lease excess capacity on their satellites to other companies. At any rate, it's a totally different and much cheaper business model than Iridium.
Now go to XMFAN.com and download one of the third party software packages. They are available in Windows, MAC and flavors of Linux. Or you can roll your own. XM has been great about allowing third parties to reverse engineer the API and basically alter your kit like you want. I added a digital output to mine. As long as you aren't stealing from them, they are hands off.
You will have to do some prodding to get it exactly the way you want - but having your computer change the channel, start recording the program you want, stop the recording, change channel, ad nausum, has already been done.
Yes, but it's 72 satellites for iridium versus 3 for Sirius and 2 for XM. That's a heck of a lot less infrastructure to launch and maintain. And, as you can see from the subscription numbers, there is demand for these products.
When you multiply 1.2 million * $10 / month * 12 months/year, you get $144 million in a year. For certain, it's more money than SCO brought in last year.
--You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
Yep - I notice that Slashdot is only willing to post another satellite radio, but nothing about mad cow disease.
With satelite radio is the same problem with multiplayer ONLY games...
If you want me to PAY for your service, give me the hardware...or if you want me to pay for the hardware, give me choice (or give me the service)...
The fact remains that XM hardware only works with XM service, therefore the hardware is useless otherwise...
If they're gonna charge for the hardware, they should provide additional functionality (like MP3/OGG) or a free alternative (like a free basic service level).
One way of essentially giving away the hardware would be to include XM or Sirius in new vehicles (buy a new Ford, get XM radio)...the major advantage here is that they could hide some of the cost in the complete sound package. The big selling point for this could be an upgraded stereo system (6-8 speaker system, mp3 CD, etc) or free service for a period of time (say 3-6 months)...
There are lots of interesting radio stations beside the music oriented ones.
Yes, and the lesson is to listen to, and support your local public radio station.
No commercials, and at night at least on many of them, one will hear all manner and styles of music not ever heard on commercial radio, and I'll even wager, not on Sat radio either.
But I'm a spy from the broadcast radio world sent to promote my show on public radio, where one can hear great underexposed, or unknown music from all around the world.
Any Mendonesians out there?
Anyhow, if your public radio station sucks then get some friends together, and join, and then take it over, and make it what you want.
And another radio rant...
Local radio will survive in rural, and other small market areas, where local/regional programming is still important to the listeners.
Until the Sat providers can (somehow) provide that kind of local content, radio will continue to serve the public well in those areas.
If it don't GO... chrome it. ~ Frank Banks
We've had on and off discussions with XM and Sirius in the past, but they're not interested in carrying us. I was happy that they had heard of us, and they did offer to consider a weekly 2 hour "show" that they would put on their "dance" channel... but that doesn't seem to worth it for us.
rusty / somafm
I'll bet even Circuit City would be embarassed by the shills for XM radio that pop up here like a chronic rash.
Slashdot editors notwithstanding, the amount of buzz for subscription radio--whether it comes from satellites, towers, or anywhere else--is approximately zero. The vast majority of consumers just do not perceive radio broadcasts as something worth paying for, period.
The cost of this subscription is about 1/5 the cost of extended cable television in my area. I don't even like TV, but the amount of entertainment from listening to someone else's playlist is not worth even that cost--not when I can rip and burn ~160 mp3/ogg files on a single CD-R (more songs than 16 Clearchannel stations).
Will XM play that many songs that I like or might like? Can I skip through songs to find one that fits my mood? Given a choice, would a person choose to listen to music selected by somone else, even in they have good taste, or to any music they want, any time they want it?
Lack of commercials is cited as a major selling point, but when it becomes apparent that the service will never reach a critical mass and subscriptions aren't bringing in enough cash, the commercials will come rolling in.
Sorry to be so negative, but I hate it when people, however well-meaning, try to hype some technology that is either rightfully dying or was stillborn from the start. The salesman that tried to sell me a Zip drive when they first came out because "in the future, all software will be sold on Zip discs" comes to mind...
Those of us who are serious internet broadcasters have quite good uptime. And the downtime we have is easily fixed by spending a little extra money - like having backup playback workstations and using T1s instead of DSL to feed our stream repeaters.
For example, SomaFM runs several of our channels with OtsDJ, an inexpensive but quite capable and professional broadcast playback and stream encoding solution. These instances often have uptime of 60-90 days between restarts, so reliability there is not a problem.
The majority of our downtime comes from the SDSL line that we use to feed the stream repeaters from our studio. If we spent $1500 a month more and put a pair of T1s in a failover config. The rest of our outages come from ISP peering problems, where one of our stream repeaters is seeing a lot of packet loss from it's feeder.
We have UPS power that will run the machines and network at the studio for over an hour, and for $5000 could put in a generator with auto start and a auto transfer switch.
As far as getting the audio back to the Sat providers head end, we could do one of several things: use a Harris Intraplex and a frame relay circuit or just install one of their encoders here connected by an ISDN or fractional T1 frame relay private network. (Most sat channels are 80kb/sec or less,)
It's not rocket science to make an "internet class" radio station as reliable as a commercial over the air station.
-rusty/somafm
Oops.
I was going to get XM or Sirius setups for one or two relatives (as in, was at the store, had liked XM, but Sirius had a nicer receiver).
Too bad you couldn't obviously give people the actual subscriptions as gifts. Problem was, providing gifts as subscriptions exposed the fact that there was a subscription fee -- and if you look around the packaging and brochures, you'll find said fee is nowhere to be found (at least at the three stores I looked -- Fry's, Good Guys, and Best Buy).
Since there's no fee to be found, there's no "six month subscription" to be found either.
I wasn't about to give a gift that came with a recurring fee w/ no demo. So I bought something more interesting.
--Dan
Xiph.org Stream directory
"Digital files cannot be made uncopyable, any more than water can be made not wet." --Bruce Schneier, CRYPTO-GRAM, May 15, 2001. This applies to streams too.
Some pundents adovcate Buying What You Know:
I want my CNET radio, but more hard core. The soft core fluff that dominates the broadcast "tech shows" is almost worthless. It's not technical enough to very useful to the only people interested enough in tech to tune in at all.
These shows always end up gradually dumbing themselves down in an effort to increase ratings. They figure, correctly I think, that there are more people out there striving to be hiphoppy and sunglassy than technically savvy.
What they miss is that these people aren't going to tune in to a "tech station" at all, no matter how many of them there are. The only people who *are* interested in tech are too few, as a percentage, to support a traditional "broadcast" and usually too well informed already for occasional small bits of technical information floating in a watery gruel of hipness to hold their attention for long.
I think what we need is to have something with the reach of satellite radio that can carry thousands of channels, most of which are tailored to niche markets. Among them would be a handful of stations for those who are already well-informed in the field: science, technology, serious investing and finance, foreign language study, etc.
If something like satellite radio can't handle this, then nuts to 'em. Let's find a way to make access to the Internet packet stream as ubiquitous as mobile phone service is becoming, and start tuning in to URLs from our cars and pocket radios.
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
I deserved that.
I'm sorry I was an ass. I had a bad day and took it out on you. I found out my girlfriend was sleeping with her boss's son. When I confronted her, instead of apologizing or trying to work things out she dumped me. Then I had to walk home from the mall in my stupid uniform because my girlfriend was supposed to be my ride. That's no excuse for how I acted but maybe you can understand better.
Digital radio is finally taking off, with the major electrical chains offering receivers at almost realistic prices (around 75 for a table model) with the hope that enough will have been found under the tree the Christmas. 6Music and its companion raider of the BBC archives BBC7 have been major drivers in the digital radio takeup campaign, as the UK government is still working towards an end of analogue broadcasting in the VHF and UHF bands by 2010. Ironically, 6Music and BBC7 seem to have been more popular over the Internet outside the UK than on digital radio in the UK in the last year. Speaking as an early adopter with digital radio in the car, I can confirm that while the BBC's coverage has improved enormously over the past year, there are still many holes in the network. My parents, who live in a fairly large ex-industrial town in the north of England, can't even receive the digital Freeview TV service, and BBC digital radio literally disappears at the nearest motorway junction. On the other hand, Sky TV, which provides all the national digital radio channels through a satellite dish via TV has become an enormous success, and it seems likely that Murdoch will be the ultimate winner in the whole process.
We are almost there. Here in France, I already have unlimited GPRS access at EUR 6.00 per month. And many of the new phones support RealPlayer.
;-)
How long before someone puts a mobile phone circuitry in a car radio with the sole purpose of adding Internet streaming radio? Or some hands free adapter that gets the radio streaming from your phone?
Ooops, I should have patented that idea
It's funny. Laugh.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
I have 3 or 5 stations I listen to and they cover all my needs.
Well, to start, XMU gives me everything I ever asked for from a college radio station. While they don't play local bands, they do play a lot things that are hard to find elsewhere. Recently, they've turned me on to Alpinestars, Fischerspooner, The Faint, Codec & Flexor, The Thermals, The Mars Volta and Prefuse 73.
XM has cost me a lot more than $10/month, but only because now I'm buying CD's of new bands.
But my needs are different, I suppose. I want to be exposed to new music, constantly. I like to sing along and hear things I'm familiar with too, but that's what the iPod is for. Mostly, I want a steady flow of things I haven't heard before. It's hard to get that from FM radio, or MTV, or whatever. Internet Radio (SomaFM, "teh sex") has done a decent job as well.
There's plenty of selection, though I wish there was a dedicated downtempo station. The talk is great, the sports radio is great, the comedy is great, U-POP routinely thrills me with remixes, though I'm pretty tired of Black Eyed Peas.
I don't know (read: care) if it works in Linux, but the XMPCR is only $50 if you're looking for a small hardware investment to try this out. The software is Win32, and I'm told there's crappy OS X software for it now too. (Fan supported.)
It might not be legal, but you can rip SomaFM, et al. to mp3. For example, with SomaFM you just need to record 3 or 4 hours worth and you can have a portable SomaFM (you may have to refresh the recording every month or so). Write a cron job that records at night and then take it with you during the day.
XM closes this year beating their original 1.2 million subscriber expectation, and they expect to double that number over the next year and reach, or be very close to reaching, cash flow breakeven in the process. Yep, sounds like another Iridium to me. Also, XM only has 2 (soon to be 3) satellites, not 72. And since their service is targeted at North America (Currently the US only, Canada soon), I don't think they'll be putting up too many more satellites until they can afford to do so.
97X in all its glory. It is the only thing that makes living in Cincinnati worthwhile.
Corporate Radio Sucks!
WEXY (97X) is run by a corporation. Make up your mind: does corporate radio suck or not?
I don't know about that, but according to their own web page, they have about a 20% share of ad revenue, which probably says a hell of a lot more about their market penetration than "number of stations owned
Yes. It says that the Clear Channel stations tend to be more popular.
out of proportion to any meaningless numbers you might want to conjur up to prove what great guys they really are
I never said they were good guys. I was just saying that it is false to claim that they control everything, let alone have a monopoly, when this is just not true.
from employees (which I assume you to be)
No. I am not even a listener. I have to drive a hundred miles or so to even find a Clear Channel station. I decided to become informed about the Clear Channel issue when the anti-First-Amendment advocates were lobbying the FCC earlier this year to censor Clear Channel.
That they have inflicted a stifling blandness on FM radio is without question
There is a BIG question. They only control a small proportion of stations.
I'm just waiting for the day when our local CC affiliate drops all pretense of old fashioned programming and plays nothing but AC/DC, Van Hagar, Ozzie, and Metallica
Why bother? In all likelihood, there are 4 times as many non-Clear Channel stations in your market as there are Clear Channel stations. Just TURN THE DIAL !
There is nothing "meaningless" about the actual numbers which prove that the claims of Clear Channel majority/monopoly are totally bogus.
Even your 20% number is but a small share.
I grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania that had cable TV in the 50's. Much of the area was in valleys deep enough and they were far enough away from transmitters that it was impossible to get TV with an antenna.
It only had 3 or 4 stations, but back then, that was your choice.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
according to their own web page, they have about a 20% share of ad revenue, which probably says a hell of a lot more about their market penetration than "number of stations owned
Logically, it says nothing about their market penetration. It just says that they are more popular (i.e: they serve the public better) than other stations that penetrate the same market.
Face it: We might not like it, but Brittany Spears is extremely popular.
Y'know what? I can always tell a clear channel station when I go to a city. Really, its the worst. From your cookie cutter formats to your cookie cutter playlists to your cookie cutter DJ's.
Really, just awful what you've done to the radio.
Oh, and as for your 8% figure, that's very misleading since your ownership is clustered in high-population areas. Makes sense; why buy a station that serves 2000 people.
And 3 channels owned out of 14 in every major market is a tremendous influence, but that's not typical.
I'll bet that isn't "something the boss can agree on".
And no, I don't work in the industry, I just listen in horror to the atrocity you've committed to radio.
Those are just the official government information organs of the US and UK governments. If you want more valid news, you have to look past these official government stations.
(sarcasm on)
I have a clear channel station here my town and they spoon feed me everything I ever needed!
(sarcasm off)
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
Oh, and as for your 8% figure, that's very misleading since your ownership is clustered in high-population areas. Makes sense; why buy a station that serves 2000 people
There is nothing misleading about it. It just takes into account the smaller markets. In the urban markets, the number is more typically between 10 and 20%. That is, you have these markets with 49 stations and 7 are owned by Clear Channel (this is a very typical situation).
And 3 channels owned out of 14 in every major market is a tremendous influence, but that's not typical
Yet it is but a small proportion of the stations in a particular market. 3/14 means 21% which is actually a little higher than the typical CC market share in the markets I have checked so far, but it is close enough to be typical. That is roughly one in five stations, which means that there are 4 times as many NON CC stations as there are CC stations.
And no, I don't work in the industry, I just listen in horror to the atrocity you've committed to radio
What's the matter, did someone break your fingers so you can't turn the radio dial to the majority of stations in your market which are non-Clear Channel?
I am not an employee. I just decided to find out what Clear Channel was when pressure groups earlier this year were trying to pressure the FCC to censorship it. As someone who believes in the First Amendment, my hackles are raised any time some pressure group tries to get the government to censor someone.
It works better than ground attenna broadcasts, but there still are shadows. I rented an AM car in the Rockies. Tunnels have blackouts, though with a delay due to the buffer. Also steep valley walls (on the south) can block the signal.
Non-profit radio stations, e.g. most college stations where the programming is controlled by the students (unlike, say, JHU, where the administration sold the frequency out from under the students to NPR), will never have commercials. There are several reasons for this. First, it is illegal for non-profit radio stations (who get much better deals on the royalties we must pay to ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, and now Soundexchange for online broadcasting) to have commercials. We _can_ have "underwriting", where we can tell you that this program was brought to you by Bob's Motors which is located at 10 Palm Lane, but that's about it. Sort of like public television.
But many stations wouldn't have commercials even if they could, because they tend to be run and staffed by people who are opposed to that sort of thing too. This is reflected in the music played, which granted isn't for everyone, but on a freeform station you can generally find at least a few shows you like.
At the very least, with most stations the music playing will be what the DJ would like to hear, which means it wasn't selected by some marketing suit based on its ability to sell advertising.
As for TV, I still watch SciFi, but only for Stargate SG-1 (the hour format is good for workouts). Adult Swim is enjoyable on Cartoon Network (except for the anime on weeknights, which I've already seen subbed). Comedy Central is still interesting, and the Food Network has some good programming (largely Good Eats and Iron Chef; avoid the scary ultra-suburbanite shows).
My radio in my car broke 5 years ago and I haven't bothered to get it fixed, since it can't tune in my own (Internet) station anyway. I use an MP3 discman to listen to stuff from the station's catalog, as well as CDs that I pick up at shows. I'm lucky enough to be able to bike to work, so I only use the car 2 or 3 days a week anyway.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
And Corporate radio still sucks. 97X WOXY does not
Since it is a corporate radio station, it is like saying "Fruit sucks. Bananas do not".
You can't see her. Strike one.
Who gives a shit what she has to say? Strike two.
You can't see her. Strike three.
Is this a blow by blow account of one of those Tommy Lee domestic violence incident reports?
If you like trance, DI is awesome. I listen to them all day at work. I even bought the premium account because I wanted to support them.
...plus or minus about a million. XM Radio recently announced reaching a million subscribers. Add another couple hundred thousand for Sirius and you can see that the demand for subscription-based radio is clearly a bit more than "approximately zero."
:)
Incidentally, I haven't noticed any negative posts here from folks who have actually TRIED satellite radio and given it a fair shake. Most of the negativity comes from nay-sayers whining about how they have some sort of right to free (advertising supported) radio. Well, you have it. And, by and large, it sucks. In my opinion.
If you don't want to pay for satellite radio, then by all means, don't do it. On the other hand, if you are looking for something better (in many ways) than traditional radio, and are willing to pay for it, check out XM (or Sirius).
Personally, I bought XM when I lived in Charlottesville, VA because the local radio stations absolutely suck and I wanted something in addition to my CD changer. When I moved to Baltimore, MD and bought a new car, I was stuck with an improved set of AM/FM stations for a couple of months until I could get the XM hardware installed. And during that time, I came to appreciate my XM radio even more.
Could I burn a boatload of CDs full of MP3 files and listen to them? Sure I could. But that's a ton of time that, quite simply, I do not have. Plus, I would get no exposure to new music, nor would I get access to the talk stations (news, sports, etc). As another poster mentioned, listening to XM has exposed me to a bunch of new artists, whose CDs I have now purchased, as well as given me access to new genres of music I would never have explored before.
Will satellite radio turn to advertising to supplement its business model in the future? Maybe, maybe not. If they do, they will lose one of their major selling points, so I'm sure it will not be a decision taken lightly. But in the end, that's only one selling point for satellite radio.
The thing I like most about the music stations is that you can see the Artist and Song title that is playing and you can see what is on other channels as well (at least with my Kenwood tuner) without changing the channel.
I haven't been too impressed with the home docking kit, I've had trouble getting a good signal in my home. I guess this is alright though because I can listen online to all the music stations. The home kit works well with the antenna outside, so once I find the right place for it, I'm pretty sure I'll like it. Right now there is a $50 rebate if you buy the tuner and two docking kits, so the home one was "free" anyway.
I love the NBA/NHL availability and next year the NFL will be broadcast as well. That's great for me because I don't like my local teams as much as the teams I grew up routing for.
The Sirius fits right in with the iMac/Tivo/Roomba/iPod as techy things that are easy to use and make my life better. If you feel the same about these other things, you'll probably like Sirius.
For left-wing propaganda, you go to NPR, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS. For something centrist, you go to Fox News. For rightist propaganda, you go to AM talk radio.
I've been trying for months, there isn't one to be had within a 200 mile radius of here. All the online places i've checked with are also out.
Wow someone actually thought you were insightful? Well your not, their are 1.2 million subscribers to XM radio right now & about half to 3/4's that on Sirrus. So while you deny that there is interest in it, there really is.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I use CD-r's still at times, but you can't beat soemthing like XM for it's range of listening options that let you find new music... They have 100 channels and even taking out the 20 or so talk radio stations, that leaves 80 concurrent choices in song's to lsiten to... Don't like what's on? switch to another station... Still don't like what's on? Pop in a audio CD/MP3 CD.
It's barely 2 years since XM first came out (july 2 years ago if I remember correctly), so 1.2 million customers for what most consider a 'niche' product is huge... 2 years into the existance of DVD players they had only sold about 2 million units and that was for what they considered a 'mainstream product'. Of course now almost 10 years after DVD's first came out their are 50 some million and it's considered to have surpassed VHS... How about giving satellite radio time and you'll see what it can do...?
we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
A company called Onsite-Technologies is working on a project that allows an individual to listen to internet radio. There's no telling what the final product will be like but the current plan is to offer it without subscription fees. There is no information on that project listed online, but there is contact numbers for anyone wanting to investigate further.
goto http://rizzn.com
"...I guess that's why I listen to alot of public radio. The music will sometimes go on for hours without any commercials..."
They make up for it by having those beg-a-thons several times a year. Then you get commercials that go on for hours without any music.
Anyone interested in XMRadio should check out this fan site - www.xmfan.com. It has an active forum, plus a database of songs played across all the channels. You can search on an artist and see when their songs have been played and on which channel. They also have a variety of hardware hacks and homegrown code to get more out of the service.
I like XM's attitude to the audience. I'm not a 13-year-old boy, and that seems to be the target audience for FM rock stations. It's nice to hear great music and be treated like an adult.
I have two units, a xmpcr for the office and a Delphi for car / home use which I've used for the past year. The variety of music played by the XM programmers is the best reason to subscribe. It's impossible to recreate that on your own with MP3's, CD changers and the like - they have over 20 terabytes of music on tap at XM headquarters. Let them manage it, I have other things to do - that's worth $10 / month
Hell yes, it is!
It's usualy the first premium channel. Others follow. Remember the phrase Sex Sells?
Go to a hotel that has just one or two premium offerings (PPV) and guess what, it's not HBO.
Larger chains with lots of PPV do offer movies that are not sex sells, but include new releases and sports events.
When XM gets more than 5 premium offerings I expect them to go the cable TV model of tiered service with some sporting events offered as PPL (Pay per listen).
After the tiered model is in place, basic service offered at a discount would include one C & W, one talk, one news, one rock (slightly out of date, one soft rock etc.) all sponsored with lots of advertisements. (WEB banner advertisement model or basic cable.) You pay for access, but the programming in the basic level is advert sponsored. To get the what are now in the radio basic service would be like getting the HBO, Cinemax, Starz lineup on cable. There were advertisement free cable systems. Just like there are advertisment free subscription radio. Wait till it matures just like subscription TV.
The truth shall set you free!
"....at least I'm not drinking McDonald's coffee and talking on my cell phone when I do that)..."
Go ahead and do that. You can get rich by filing a frivolous lawsuit after spilling McDonald's coffee on yourself. It has been done before.
"How is that different than when cable TV first came about? People bought it because of lack of commercials."
When cable TV first came out, people bought it because you could not get TV otherwise. This was why we first got it around 1968. Someone else mentioned having it in the 1950s.
"Lack of commercials" would have been a bad reason, because the overwhelming majority of channels on cable have always been chock-full of commercials. The commercials were there all along. They did not "slowly become more prevelant": they started this way.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Except that you generally get something besides just "ad free" when you get a subscription service. On the Internet you'd get more privliges, on TV you get movies before they hit the networks, what are you going to get on Satelite Radio, Rush Limbaugh? I'm sorry, I just fail to see the killer ap that will cause what you're talking about to come to pass.
After the tiered model is in place, basic service offered at a discount would include one C & W, one talk, one news, one rock (slightly out of date, one soft rock etc.) all sponsored with lots of advertisements.
Why yes, people will certainly pay for that basic service when they already get the exact same thing for free over FM... unless you mean XM and Sirius would offer the basic service for free to sell recievers, which would actually be an improvement and even be plausible.
PPL sporting events? You're kidding, right? If you're going to spend money on a sporting event chances are you're also going to adjust your schedual around it, which heavily favors TV over radio (most satellite radio recievers are in cars). XM and Sirius may try it, but I doubt it would last long, only if they get a major bandwidth upgrade would they be willing to devote the resources to gather the meager profits.
common sense: noun
What those who are ignorant of the subject matter think; usually wrong.
At which point you can throw then a few bucks and futilely attempt to search for content on other stations only to appreciate how well you have it by having public radio available as an option to you during the non beg-a-thon times.
They already have my money, by way of my being forced to pay taxes to run it. This makes them the "official media of the United States government". I might consider voluntary spending money on them if we can get the government to stop wasting money on this....and it is a total waste, an unnecessary use of taxpayer funds. Leave the news and arts to the people, not the government.
I'm not a leech: I already pay, and resent it that this money is essentially stolen from me: I don't have a choice.
I like your SIG. Questioning this theft by government is perfectly in line with the libertarian philosophy in the song.
My business partner got XM in his new CTS and we often times have meeting with clients in Arkansas and Oklahoma where your choices are gospel or country over the radio. Now we can actually get a choice to listen too. I will definately be getting it in my next car, but that will be in a few years.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
Actually, *I AM* blown away by K/M's selection of music. I have a couple thousand CDs. And I haven't bought one in nearly two years. K/M's music library consists of nearly 40 million tracks. I just can't compete with that.
The talk is rather lame, too. But anyone who is serious about music will have their mind opened up by K/M's diversity. Anything you want, anytime you want it. I cannot imagine not having K/M.
>>> Actually, *I AM* blown away by K/M's selection of music
That's fine if you have the time to waste stealing other people's work product. Personally, I think people who steal should be in prison.