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Pick up some used Squeezebox devices on eBay. Their music server is open source, runs on Mac OS, and is compatible with iTunes. The devices sync beautifully. More info.

The 24 bit lossless release from late last year is a dramatically better mastering than I've heard before.

The 24-bit lossless could have been more accurate than the CDs, if they had not had the dynamic range compression applied, but at least some comparisons show that this is not case.

So, they might be "better" to some ears, but that seems to be the same group of ears that have remastered the Beatles albums before, with each one being worse than the last. The engineer doing the mastering on this last release admits to adding dynamic range compression, which by definition loses some of the original sound.

Actually the Squeezebox Classic and Transporter do have IR blaster output.

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/IRBlaster

um, like, hire a real lawyer. really, dude.

That's real brilliant advice, but the problem is there are astonishingly few lawyers who will have the slightest clue how to answer this question.

I would suggest that a techie's best bet is to get as informed as possible before taking this to a lawyer, because it's really treading new ground. Can you tell I've been there?

Slim Devices, and subsequently Logitech, wanted to pursue this kind of license for our firmware, so that we could allow customers to have certain benefits of open source, without enabling competitors to make knock-offs of our hardware products with no effort beyond soldering down the parts.

Ages ago I came up with the Slim Devices Public Source License, which later got rolled into the Logitech Public Source License. Only recently did we actually ship a major firmware product based on it, which is the SqueezeOS platform that underlies the (imminently hackable, linux based) Squeezebox Controller. Customers can see the source code, learn how it works, customize it to their needs, etc, but they are not allow to redistribute without permission. It's not "Open Source" by the official definition, but it's a great compromise IMHO which met our business constraints.

I searched far and wide for lawyers who understood these technicalities, and even at a major multi-B corporation with an awesome legal team, this was new ground. So educate yourself and check out as many examples as possible, and then find a good IP specialist to help you craft a license, but be prepared to prescribe exactly what you want that license to do.

Well my media server doesn't crash, even though it runs XP :) I have $300 players in a bunch of rooms. A lttle more than a second hand ipod for sure, but the sound quality is way better, I have access to my whole collection (well over a TB) without having to resync them all manually, I can choose whether to play the same thing in each room or sync playback between rooms, plus I can listen to podcasts, internet radio etc all live. Oh and there's Pandora, Rhapsody and Slacker support. And I have remote controls with displays large enough to be read from a distance, plus a web interface for browsing the library, managing playlists etc.

So a little more expensive than your solution, but a hell of a lot more functionality. Oh and it's all open source.

Linky: Slimdevices

Add additional Squeezebox Receivers and listen to a different song in each room, or synchronize them and hear the same music everywhere.

Have you tried a squeezebox ( http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html )? It's open source, has binaries for Windows, Mac OS X, and linux (including a repository for Debian/Ubuntu). I've had one for a couple years and it's a nice way to listen to my music in the living room without having an extra computer there or the TV on.

Yup. http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?RhapsodySetup

I synch together a SlimDevices Squeezebox v3, an old SLIMP3, and a couple machines running the SoftSqueeze Java client, all clients to a server running the SlimServer/SqueezeCenter Perl server.

I synch together a SlimDevices Squeezebox v3, an old SLIMP3, and a couple machines running the SoftSqueeze Java client, all clients to a server running the SlimServer/SqueezeCenter Perl server.

I synch together a SlimDevices Squeezebox v3, an old SLIMP3, and a couple machines running the SoftSqueeze Java client, all clients to a server running the SlimServer/SqueezeCenter Perl server.

I synch together a SlimDevices Squeezebox v3, an old SLIMP3, and a couple machines running the SoftSqueeze Java client, all clients to a server running the SlimServer/SqueezeCenter Perl server.

I synch together a SlimDevices Squeezebox v3, an old SLIMP3, and a couple machines running the SoftSqueeze Java client, all clients to a server running the SlimServer/SqueezeCenter Perl server.

I synch together a SlimDevices Squeezebox v3, an old SLIMP3, and a couple machines running the SoftSqueeze Java client, all clients to a server running the SlimServer/SqueezeCenter Perl server.

I enjoy the heck out of my Squeezebox Duet. A two-room system would be about $550, which is about half the Sonos price, so I guess it would be 2X a reasonable price for you. But it's still great.

I've never heard such shite. Slimserver software is one of the biggest pieces of crap ever developed. One of the few basic requirements for that product is that it can correctly and reliably import all MP3's in a folder. If it can't import them it should be able to report _precisely_ why not. Slimshite fails big time. And what about the gazillion other bugs: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__all__&product=&content=

So basically you're talking shite. It's got nothing to do with telecommuting. Streaming media is actually quite "sexy" as far as programming goes but the problem with that is that it attracts total no hopers trying to prove (but always failing) that they know how to code. And "open source" is irrelevant to finding good developers. It just lowers the bar for people to be able to attempt to make a contribution. On that point, if you had a brain tumour, would you go to an "open source" brain surgeon"?

I wish someone would manufacture an mp3 player with better analog output circuitry designed not for headphone / earphone listening but for hooking up to hifi components.

Your hifi component needs for playing MP3's have already been met by Slim Devices. Even though this company was purchased by Logitech not too long ago, they seem to have been left to their own devices, as it were. Sure it requires a home network, but we all know you already have one of those. And before someone asks ye old /. question: "does it run under Linux", yes, yes it does. The server software component of these little beauties runs under anything that can run a modern version of Perl. It also supports the lossless FLAC, WAV and AIFF formats. Yes, it supports Ogg Vorbis.

You're welcome.

The Squeezebox outputs analog using Burr-Brown DACs. It's not, of course, an ipod-type MP3 player, but rather an audio system component, so you might like it.

The best answer so far is probably The Transporter. The squeezebox also has quite a nice sound to it, while being a tad cheaper.

You could also go the route of using an external D/A-converter.

I still want a Squeezebox.

I still want a Squeezebox.

Looks like this might be a great host for a SlimServer based MP3 system. Anybody know how well the server software performs on this box?

Anybody know how well this box works as a SlimServer MP3 server?

FLAC:
At home... http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html
On the road... http://www.trekstor.de/en/products/detail_mp3.php? pid=66

I can hear the difference, but I mix audio professionally. I still enjoy music on the radio. But I enjoy it more on a nice stereo or even on a player with good converters (i.e. not iPod) and good headphones (like Shure's high end offerings).

But it's a big, complex project with a few people behind it and they're pretty good at what they do. Unless you can poach one of them to work on your fork, it'll probably be a good 6 months before anyone on your fork even understands what's going on under the hood, let alone is able to substantially improve on it.

And this is exactly the business model that people need to follow. You make money because you have a bigger dev team and can innovate faster than the others. They can look at your code but changing it and upgrading it - ten people are going to move at warp speed compared to a guy in his living room. They make money because they are faster, smarter, and innovate.

I find it amusing as well as a bit frustrating to hear people whine about how they can't make money off of open source code by sitting on their rear ends waiting for royalties to come rolling in.

P.S. A perfect example of this is:
http://www.slimdevices.com/
You can make a copy the software if you wish. Go ahead. Good luck making it look better, work better, and cost less. (btw last I heard, the owner was quite wealthy - even before selling the company)

SlimServer works for me. http://slimdevices.com/su_downloads.html

I gotta chime in here... I also purchased an N800 and am overall very satisfied with it. The thing is amazingly capable, especially when paired with a bluetooth keyboard. I use the Think Outside XTBTUE keyboard. The keyboard folds up to a size not much larger than the N800. I can walk around with an 802.11b/g capable, fully functional Debian based machine in my pocket, with ssh, vnc, and a keyboard that I can type on at full speed.

To be honest though, I think what really was the catalyst for my purchase was the desire to show my support for companies willing to empower and work with the opensource community, rather than against it (which is also why I purchased a SqueezeBox, another company willing to work with their opensource customers.) Check out maemo.org for a glimpse of the N800 development community.

Nokia even had a program where they allowed 500 active opensource contributors to purchase an N800 for only $99.

PS. Hear that companies? I vote with my wallet and will gladly give my money to companies that embrace opensource software.

I pipe FLAC over wifi (how's that for electrical isolation!) to a Slimdevices Transporter and from there to the amp with a regular analogue hookup. The sound is amazing, the DAC in that thing is a work of art.

I have a question - why are you resampling to 24/192? If your source is 16/44 you're not going to improve anything by resampling...and that ratio is potentially going to lead to degredation (192 is not an integer multiple of 44).

Slimserver, while traditionally used to drive a Squeezebox, can stream to any player that can stream MP3 format. (And probably FLAC, AIFF, or WAV, I've never tried it though.) The latest version uses mysql as a backend and I've seen people talk about very big collections like yours on the mailing list. FWIW, I have a squeezebox (rev. 1) and I love it.

At work I have done the other thing people mention, which is attempted to rigorously organize the directory structure my MP3s are stored in, and then used good old xmms to play directly from the filesystem. I see other people talking about amarok but every time I have attempted to use it it's very unstable for me. (My collection is about 80G and it never seems to make it through scanning it.) Is the secret to backend it into mysql instead of letting it do sqllite? Or maybe it's artsd that is problematic? Would anyone like to share their Amarok best practices?

Slimserver, while traditionally used to drive a Squeezebox, can stream to any player that can stream MP3 format. (And probably FLAC, AIFF, or WAV, I've never tried it though.) The latest version uses mysql as a backend and I've seen people talk about very big collections like yours on the mailing list. FWIW, I have a squeezebox (rev. 1) and I love it.

At work I have done the other thing people mention, which is attempted to rigorously organize the directory structure my MP3s are stored in, and then used good old xmms to play directly from the filesystem. I see other people talking about amarok but every time I have attempted to use it it's very unstable for me. (My collection is about 80G and it never seems to make it through scanning it.) Is the secret to backend it into mysql instead of letting it do sqllite? Or maybe it's artsd that is problematic? Would anyone like to share their Amarok best practices?

Go and do yourself a favour and buy a Squeeze Box.

Its Wifi, DivX, mp3, ogg support and all the goodies you need, with a remote - it totally rocks.

http://www.slimdevices.com/

And the replies to your post aren't much better. For the really deep researchers, here's a link to the tech specs for AppleTV which I found after FORTY FIVE SECONDS of looking. Perhaps less. I wasn't timing it.

Among the shocking newses to report, Apple claims the little white brick will play: MPEG-4: Up to 3 Mbps, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 720 by 432 pixels at 30 fps).

I don't know what all that AAC-LC part means, but it sure sounds to me like it will play non-DRM MPEG4 files. Anyone with a clue and a foam-free mouth care to clarify?

Better still, anyone want to tell us how we can stream video from Linux to this thing? Because $300 sounds pretty good to me. Hell, a SqueezeBox costs $250 and only plays music.

Flac is great because of the license, freely available tools and because my digital audio players ( 4 SqueezeBox network players at home and an iRiver H140 with rockbox on the road) support it natively. Tag support is included.

The great thing about any lossless format (as long as you have the uncompression tool) is that you may at any time choose to convert to any other format without loss. I regularly convert Monkey audio downloads to Flac without loss.

That's the real problem with MP3 library's you can never move to a different format without losing extra quality (unless you move to a lossless format which is - of course - totally pointless).

Many people maintain a separate mp3 tree, which they can use on any portable players where sound quality is not that important. Tools exist to automate this:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/archive/index.php/t- 14697.html

X.

It isn't portable, but you can listen to Pandora through both of Slim Devices' products:

http://www.slimdevices.com/

Very spiffy, but out of my price range for a music player. My (high-end) computer speakers are good enough for me. ;)

If you have wifi and a computer that contains your music and is allways on then try one of these. They look great, sound great and hell, you can even program the things.

I've got two now and can't live without them.

Squeeze Box 3

However, my primary reason for picking up a Xbox wasn't for gaming (I already owned a reasonable PC, a PS2 and a Gamecube). The main reason I bought the console is because it's one of the cheapest options for a media centre that I could find. A quick soft-mod later (after installing XBMC) and I had a console that could stream content from my PC straight onto my television.

Why would you want to stream content with a modded Xbox when you could have had a Squeezebox for around the same price ($250)?

Qh, wait, you're talking video . . . .

I for one want a kick-ass Transporter!

I'll take a Wii and a PS3 too... The only reason I want a PS3 is for Winning Eleven. The best sports gaming experience ever. Okay maybe Metal Gear Solid too when the new one's unveiled.

Slimdevices Squeezebox: http://slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html

Been using one for a week and I'd say it's pretty nice. Plays my whole music collection and internet radios. There's also a hifi version for 7 times the money, but I figured you'd appreciate the size of the Squeezebox:)

A whole new batch of devices and stores support FLAC: for portables there are the iAUDIO T2 and iAUDIO F2, TrekStor's Vibez, the Onda VX737, and the AP3000 from Green Apple. For the home stereo, Slim Devices' Transporter and Ziova's CS510 and CS505. For music in FLAC format check out digital-tunes for electronic and underground, or FestivaLink.net for live shows.

Bluedot's BMP-1430 portable supports FLAC.

AudioReQuest's new S.Series music servers support FLAC.

Cowon's A2 now supports FLAC with the latest firmware, and Olive's new Opus both plays and records to FLAC.

The new Iwod G10 portable supports FLAC.

Want some FLAC with your Volvo? Volvo's Digital Jukebox, developed with PhatNoise, is fully integrated with the car's audio system and available for the S60, V70, XC70, and S80. PhatNoise's PhatBox in 2002 was the first device to support FLAC natively and has gained a loyal following.

Is this the same Pandora?

http://www.slimdevices.com/au_press_pandorahours.h tml

Version 3 of of Slim Devices Squeezebox is quite polished. I agree, V2 looked a bit clunky.

Moreover, the informal tech support on their boards is amazingly good, IMHO. I posted about a problem in the evening one holiday weekend, and their CTO posted back with a suggested solution later that night. Now a fan of their products, sure, but the CTO? Great.

In the short term, this is great news for the employees (assuming they have options/stock in the company) and founders. Shareholders can cash out and get a return on the equity (sweat and cash) they've put into the business. I'm very happy for them.

In the longer term? They'll probably lose some good people, and I doubt that in five years time senior company officers will be answering a new users questions late at night on the boards on a holiday.

Also, unless I'm really missing something, I don't see where a product like the Transporter (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_transporter.html) fits in. I mean circa $2000? For something from Logitech!?

Thinking about it that way, for me, this is a little like a decent, but unexceptional fast-food chain purchasing the local bistro.

So it's kind of mixed news for consumers, I think. More backing, deeper pockets is good, but I do worry about what will happen to their customer service. I also worry about a junky cost-reduced product killing them.

-Holmwood

I agree... Slim Devices has done a good job of communicating and working with its customers over the years to make things work better and in adding new features.

This is a sad day for Squeezebox owners and fans of Slim Devices.

As said by someone elsewhere in this thread, I just hate it when big companys buy little companies out.

http://www.slimdevices.com/

If you think the Tivo is like the 'Homer', then what must you think of the Transporter, at only $1999?

Hey, there's a market for these things. People have money to spend. Lots of people have _lots_ of money to spend. You can make a good living catering to them.

...with the exception of the DRM circumvention. I googled but couldn't find a lawsuit that challenged the CD ripping service offered by Slim Devices which has been around for quite some time. They will rip your CD collection and provide you with the data for use on your home network, presumably to stream audio to their players.

Of course, this brings DRM encrypted works into the mix, but it seems that nobody (i.e. the RIAA) cares about the service offered by Slim Devices for audio so the format-shift part hasn't been challenged. This could be a lucrative service, especially given the prices for format specific versions of the content. All of a sudden, it's not "pirates" doing the work, but good-ol' palm-greasing, profit making corporate America. I would, indeed, be more likely to support CC if they carry this through to SCOTUS and/or congressional action to gut the DMCA and restore balance to the system.

I'm not going to hold my breath or anything, but it's good for a smile this Friday afternoon.

Currently?

Well, there's the WiFi factor, which I think will be very cool. I don't care so much about being able to buy music on my music player, but being able to use an iPod and Airport Express without having to lug a computer around is a nice idea. I assume that Roku and Slim Devices will support this.

Another interesting thing as part of the WiFi realm is Internet Radio or IPTV.

Yeah, except that once you've purchased the books, they're yours to do with what you like. Including modifying them and reselling them.

Worried that they're running afoul of their distribution agreement? Okay, buy the books at retail. Spray paint the covers blue. Cut our three or four pages. Put them up on eaby for 150% of what you paid for them. There's nothing illegal about that. What if you spill coffee on the disc liner for a CD and resell it on ebay. Legal? of course. Now spray paint the top of the disc green, then resell it. First sale doctrine says you can. What if you could alter the original dvd? What if you could alter the data on the original disc, then resell it on ebay. Still legal - it's yours to modify once you've bought it. You can scratch the disk to make a chapter unplayable and resell it, why not alter it more surgically?

Of course, the sticking point is that the content is not easily alterable on a DVD.

So, what if you bought the DVD, shipped it to them for editing for your personal use, and they sent you back the altered version (DMCA notwithstanding - this is not a DMCA ruling, it's copyright) with your original. Still smells like fair use to me. You bought it, you own it, you (had it) modified to suit your personal desires. No different than dubbing you're Eagles Greatest Hits album you've got on tape to eliminate "Life in the Fast Lane", or taking your CD collection and remixing it onto your MP3 player. But you're worried about someone making money off the alterations....so how about sending your CDs off to be ripped for you and tagged for you for a fee? It's happening now, apparently wihtout challenge - you can see for yourself here. They send you the ripped versions and your originals. Fair use. Now they do not alter the tracks, nor do they store and compile, but the implication is that if you can do A and B via fair use and first sale doctrine, doing both should not require a stretch of the imagination.

As for a vendor's license, all that does is make it easy for your locality to levy taxes on your business. They don't really care what you sell.

No one *wants* DRM, but most everyone will accept it under reasonable terms. Apple's terms are more than reasonable.

What's reasonable about the fact that I can't play ITMS purchased songs on my 4 wonderful whole house music-players because of licensing issues? ( http://slimdevices.com/ )

Perhaps it would be acceptable if these tracks were sold at bargain prices, but they're not. I get to pay dearly for lossy compressed copies of the original that I can't play on my iRiver & Squeezebox players.

That is completely unreasonable in my book.

Good thing there are alternatives. Why anyone would want to shop at ITMS is beyond me.

And, yes: People *are* unreasonably modding Apple-critical comments down.

X.

Here are my measures: 11k MP3 files, 87 G, almost all legit from CD, etree, archive, etc. When it is not legit it is probably something I forgot to download after I listened to it and decided I didn't liked it so I wouldn't buy it.

There are different things to make it happen.

First - you need to properly fill all MP3 tags. The less an MP3 is tagged, the less it is searchable...

Secondly - I don't want to have to play music via my PC and soundcard when I'm at home. More - at home, my PC is not the center of attention - so I bought a squeezebox from slimdevices.com. Go to their website to see what it is capable of. The gist is that you run a service on a computer (this can be a PC running windows, linux, OSX or another device, as long as it runs a new version of perl). This service stores all relevant tag-information in a database and makes it searchable via the squeezebox.
So, my PC (running linux) serves the mp3's to the squeezebox that plays these via the normal speakers. Quite a quality difference, of course. (Needless to say, that the squeezebox also can play other music files such as flac, ogg, ...).
The interface via the remote control is much easier than using it via winamp or fubar or whatever you have. A remote control just feels better.

It also streams music from the internet, of course.

Thirdly - when I'm on the road, I copy some of the files to my portable (running windows) and there I have the same service and a programme called softsqueeze that performs the same functions so I can listen with the same interface to the same songs when I'm on the road or at work.

The perl service and the softsqueeze programme are GPL and downloadable from the slimdevices website. The only thing you need to buy is the squeezebox: $250: go and have a look! http://www.slimdevices.com/

I'm very very happy - the hardware is very stable, the mp3 decoder is really good, and - because the service is written in perl, it is extensible. It is written with plugins in mind. I already have plugins for the weather, # of e-mails in my inbox and the from/to/subject, etc, etc.

    -- Mark

I have about 17,000 MP3's (all legitimately purchased, ripped from my CD collection or bought online) and manage them with Slimserver from Slim Devices, along with three of their Squeezebox client/players. Works great: this provides a completely catalogued and automatable music system throughout my home. I don't care about portability outside the house, so YMMV.

Right, but you forget two major factors.

1) The fullsize ipods do video now. That needs a whole lot more space. The nano doesn't do video (does it?) and so the nano almost fits the "music only" category, which tops out around 20-40GB for most people. The HD based ipods then become more and more targetted at video customers.

2) Lossless. I listen to my music at home via Squeezeboxes, and lots of people are starting to use HTPCs, Airport, etc to listen to the same rips at home as on the go. I know I sure as hell don't want to listen to AAC or MP3 on my nice hifi, so it's lossless all the way. Now I could (and in fact, do) keep two copies of everything - one for portable and one for home. But that's a pain to maintain. Would be easier if I didn't have to worry about space and could store all those huge files on a portable player too. My CD rips are currently around 200GB, and most of it is still lossy. When it's all reripped as lossless we'll be looking at over 0.5TB. Bring on the big portable players :)