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not those that have been holding Apple back for the past 15+ years.

No, I think that should be read as business plans that do not make you (You) a customer. Apple has carved out a very profitable niche doing what other people won't. I wasn't part of apple's audience for a long time - didn't have the money for it to be an option. Now that I have the money I don't have the time to deal with linux. I'll gladly fork out (aparently a lot, too) so that my computer just works when I turn it on.

I think this is what Redhat should have done - picked open source for the gems, made it bulletproof, picked out some hardware and ran with it. They didn't - and nobody has. I thought about doing what these guys are doing, and I think they'll get themselves a very successful niche if the whole package is an attractive by.

Don't take me for a zealot - I use openbsd, linux, windows, solaris, and OSX in addition to QNX on a near daily basis. Apple hit themselves a nice little (multi billion $) niche.

That is not a failed business model. If you want to see failed business models, go here. Apple is eating THEIR lunch. Mmm, tasty.

So Java seems to be less encumbered than .Net at this point.

Thank you for a well-written post. It's such a shame that so many people argue Java performance without even understanding how the damn thing works. (It's funny that at the present, you have to explicitly turn off native execution via the -Xint flag.)

More people need to read the Hotspot Whitepaper before they open their mouths.

There's some more in-depth (and less dramatic :) information on Java's fp handling here: http://servlet.java.sun.com/javaone/resources/cont ent/sf2002/conf/sessions/pdfs/1079.pdf (written by the co-author of the original "How Java's Floating-Point Hurts Everyone Everywhere" paper, who is now Sun's "Java Floating-Point Czar") - it looks like the problems aren't as serious as they were initially made out to be.

As founder of the Distributed Hardware Evolution Project which is written in Java, I'd like to remind you all that the Just-In-Time compiler coupled with the real time profiling and dynamic on-the-fly optimisation that goes on in the Server VM makes the difference between C and Java minimal for code which is in the critical region. This is specially the case for code which is executed over and over again, such as with these distributed processing projects. In fact the guys at Sun are doing such a good job at exploiting the ever more complex characteristics of different processors that Java code is expected to run faster than C in the future. Also, during the weeks that you would spend debugging and porting your C code, your Java code has gone miles ahead doing useful stuff! If you would like to start your own Java distributed processing project, DistrIT might help.

Now, your C compiler will see that you want to store a 32 bit value, but has to generate code for a 386.

Not if I distribute in source format.

Hotspot is also capable of analyzing the running code and regenerating even better assembly that would perform poorly in other circumstances. For example, let's say Hotspot notices that the bounds can't be exceeded on an array. Well, Hotspot will then recompile to remove the bounds checking.

In other words, your program can't take full advantage of whatever processor it's on because Java keeps analyzing/recompiling the code. The overhead is unacceptable to begin with (I can't imagine what it'd be like running this on a 386), but it's also variable. If you need to time your algorithm, Java with Hotspot isn't an option.

Lastly, if you bother to swing by Sun's Java page, you'll notice that the 386 processors aren't even supported. If you need to run your Java program on a 386, you're shit out of luck.

You're right. We should laugh.

Like we laughed at the idea that Microsoft pays people to post in forums -- until it was proven to be true.

Like we laughed at the idea that Microsoft was funding Washington think tanks -- until it was proven to be true.

Like we laughed at the idea that Microsoft was spreading FUD about DR-DOS -- until it was proven to be true.

Like we laughed at the idea that Microsoft would submit doctored evidence in a federal court -- until it was proven to be true.

Like we laughed at the idea that Microsoft was trying to undermine Netscape and sabotage their business relationships -- until it was proven to be true.

Like we laughed at the idea that Microsoft was trying to sabotage Java, and lock in Java users -- until it was proven to be true.

Like we laughed at the idea that Microsoft would try to undermine Linux with extended protocols -- until it was proven to be true.

But the idea that Microsoft would try to lock in Linux developers and users, through a secret deal with Trolltech?

You're right. That's laughable.

Take my pda for example..

What PDA do you have, exactly? I can only remember seeing PDAs running things like PersonalJava, which although an offical Sun product, is not compatible with programs written for real Java.

I'll think you'll find Sun does release the source code for their JVM and compilier, here.

They just did.

What part of "$900 million to resolve patent issues" is unclear?

Sun Microsystems is like a aging ho trying to decide between two pimps. "Which one will beat me less? Which one will let me keep mo mah money?" She chose Microsoft, rather than continue to be slapped around by IBM.

Since Microsoft now owns much of Sun's IP, you will never see Java freed, or sold to IBM, or anyone else. Microsoft wants to keep Java under tight control and limited exposure while .NET matures.

IBM is the entity facing some very tough choices. If the ho analogy holds, it's time for IBM to recruit some young bitches and undercut Microsoft's aging harlot.

The source code available at OpenOffice.org does not consist of all of the StarOffice code. Usually, the reason for this is that Sun pays to license third-party code to include in StarOffice that which it does not have permission to make available in OpenOffice.org.

• Certain fonts (esp. Asian language fonts)
• The database component (Adabas D)
• Some templates
• Extensive Clip Art Gallery
• Some sorting functionality (Asian versions)
• Certain file filters

Read replies above. Java bytecodes are compiled to native while execution. Thats why the virtual machine is name Hotspot. C# has a similar implementation.

The GTK+ Swing look is quite ugly; it only tracks a few Gnome themes, I think it does not support antialiasing and looks baaaaad. If you want to use it, anyway, check this.

If you want to develop Gnome apps in Java, there are Gnome/GTK bindings for Java.

There is also SWT, but I don't recommend it (it's a lowest common denominator for Win32, Cocoa, GTK and Solaris). Besides, it's selling point is 'cross-platform' compatibility. If you are developing Gnome apps, you shouldn't care much for that (I mean, you are following the HID and using Gnome apis -that's not crossplatform).

Sun is certainly not dropping Solaris at all. Go here to find out about all the new stuff going into Solaris 10.

What Sun is doing is making Linux and Solaris interchageable at the low end by supplying both in the box.

As for becoming a major player in the Linux kernel team, why bother? They're only shipping Linux on comodity boxes i.e. standard kit. Why does Sun need to spend any time and money on that when volunteers, RedHat, SuSE/Novell, IBM and SGI are doing that already and under the GPL?

Don't be so hasty to write off Solaris. Sun has done some incredible things with Solaris in the past. I dare say they haven't forgotten how to throw googlies, and they haven't got so desperate as to being yet another Windows reseller like SGI.

In a recent poll, Jonathan Schwartz voted for ring turner

There is another option for an excellent keyboard with the Alt/Command keys in the right place for a Mac user: a Sun keyboard.
I am typing this on a Sun Microsystem's Type 6 USB keyboard, Item-number #320-1271. You can order one at the Sun Store for $60:

http://store.sun.com/CMTemplate/CEServlet?process= SunStore&cmdViewProduct_CP&boxid=%2523320-1271
or apparently here for $40.

You can even use the extra keys on Linux.
Here's a picture.

The Software Companion CDs distributed with Solaris 8 and 9 (and available for download here and here), are not SunFreeware's builds (thankfully). They're built by Sun.

The Software Companion CDs distributed with Solaris 8 and 9 (and available for download here and here), are not SunFreeware's builds (thankfully). They're built by Sun.

"The companies have also entered into agreements on patents and other issues. [...] It will stimulate new products, delivering great new choices for customers who want to combine server products from multiple vendors and achieve seamless computing in a heterogeneous computing environment. We look forward to this opportunity - it provides a framework for cooperation between Sun and Microsoft going forward. [...] Sun and Microsoft engineers will cooperate to allow identity information to be easily shared between Microsoft Active Directory and the Sun Java System Identity Server, resulting in less complex and more secure computing environments. Sun and Microsoft have agreed that they will work together to improve technical collaboration between their Java and .NET technologies."

"Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq "MSFT") is the worldwide leader in software, services and solutions that help people and businesses realize their full potential."

1. Sun announces support for Dot Net on Solaris, but not its Linux distro.
2. Sun announces Java will be transitioned to run on the CLR, not the JVM.
3. Java is dead.

Imagine this running Windows.

just 10 of these storage systems and you got almost 1,5PB diskspace :))

http://www.sun.com/storage/highend/9980/index.xml

Dind't they give it for free some time ago?

For some definitions of "free", you can still download it from Sun's download site.

Instead of quacking and crying about it - instead of trying to corner Linux and OSS out of the Market, Sun has done quite the opposite. First, they work with OSS to try and make sure that popular OSS projects work on their platform. At the same time, they started offering their current O.S. as a free (or nominal) download.

Second (Sun re-invention, part II) they started selling x86 systems with Solaris x86 _AND_ Linux support. This plays on Sun's old-school strength of being known as a very reliable hardware vendor (less true now, but their reputation is still strong).

Finally, (re-invention part III) they are moving their Solaris OS (the preferred OS for their SPARC hardware) into a subscrption model that more closely resembles what RedHat has to offer. I highly doubt that this has any more reason than to more closely align sun's two product lines (Solaris and Linux).

Part 1 that I mention happened way back in '94-'96.

Am I entirely mistaken, or does Zero Install do more or less the same af Java Web Start? Or the other way around. I have no idea which came first :-)

This sounds an awful lot like Java Web Start, except JWS uses http to fetch archives.

And, of course, it's mainly used for distributing Java apps :-)

You're looking at the full SDK

Why not check before saying? It's easy - just click the link in my post.

The SDK is around 40MB and the website references in my first post, java.com, is the end-user Java website - it doesn't even link to the SDK. The developers' website is java.sun.com.

You're looking at the full SDK

Why not check before saying? It's easy - just click the link in my post.

The SDK is around 40MB and the website references in my first post, java.com, is the end-user Java website - it doesn't even link to the SDK. The developers' website is java.sun.com.

Well you could be right. But about the technology I do want to point out that Sun is finally getting its act together. You can now set up your applet to automatically download the Java-PlugIn and it only requires one click from the user. Not perfect, but getting closer to universal and automatic insurance of the latest Java technology everywhere. See this: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/plugin/d eveloper_guide/using_tags.html#in-ie

Perhaps Sun will be less keen to promote its Java Desktop now it is getting closer to MS...? This seems to have been a key part of several recent announcements about organisations planning to move to Linux desktops...

Two points, catered to delivering Java-powered client applications to John Q. Public effortlessly (let's face it; that's what applets did):

Up until now, you could release a Java 1.1.x compatible *application* (no security sandbox) without worrying about Granny Smith even having been able to spell jre when she was downloading. That's a good thing. 1.1.x is plenty to check and see if there's a Java 2 JRE laying around, and helping Granny get it if you absolutely need it.

Which brings me to point 2... Do you really *need* Java 2, or do you just want it? Admittedly Swing is a little buggy on 1.1.4 [if you include swingall.jar], which is as far as MS's VM got before the mess started, but Oracle still ships a version of 1.1.8 to power its management tools. There's very little you can't do with 1.1.x, especially once you've got the Collections API in the mix.

I've seen emails go across the Apple Java Development mailing list saying things like, "Our boss says we *have* to have generics, so Macs and their 1.4.x JVM are right out for development." Look, these are things you've been happily *not* using for all of Java's existence, that older code still works in 1.5, yet you're moving the whole of your development over b/c you think a new, just out of beta feature is cool? "As if source code rusted."

This settlement is great news for Java on the desktop. The longer you can keep more of your code 1.1 friendly, the longer you can deploy effortlessly on Windows. That window had almost closed, and now it's back, wide open.

And from the press release, though I'm not so optimistic to believe it'll necessarily be the case, there's nothing ruling out MS's installation of a newer version of Sun's jre by default in the future. Heck, it ain't jre's or clr's that boost an OS, it's, "Developers, developers, developers, developers." Maybe MS sees the more the merrier, and would prefer things like Sun's Mad Hatter not gain any special traction. Reminds me a little of AOL dropping Mozilla (which it based the OS X AOL client on as proof of concept in the Great Game of 0110 Chicken 2003) the second after MS relicensed them the IE engine.

Two points, catered to delivering Java-powered client applications to John Q. Public effortlessly (let's face it; that's what applets did):

Up until now, you could release a Java 1.1.x compatible *application* (no security sandbox) without worrying about Granny Smith even having been able to spell jre when she was downloading. That's a good thing. 1.1.x is plenty to check and see if there's a Java 2 JRE laying around, and helping Granny get it if you absolutely need it.

Which brings me to point 2... Do you really *need* Java 2, or do you just want it? Admittedly Swing is a little buggy on 1.1.4 [if you include swingall.jar], which is as far as MS's VM got before the mess started, but Oracle still ships a version of 1.1.8 to power its management tools. There's very little you can't do with 1.1.x, especially once you've got the Collections API in the mix.

I've seen emails go across the Apple Java Development mailing list saying things like, "Our boss says we *have* to have generics, so Macs and their 1.4.x JVM are right out for development." Look, these are things you've been happily *not* using for all of Java's existence, that older code still works in 1.5, yet you're moving the whole of your development over b/c you think a new, just out of beta feature is cool? "As if source code rusted."

This settlement is great news for Java on the desktop. The longer you can keep more of your code 1.1 friendly, the longer you can deploy effortlessly on Windows. That window had almost closed, and now it's back, wide open.

And from the press release, though I'm not so optimistic to believe it'll necessarily be the case, there's nothing ruling out MS's installation of a newer version of Sun's jre by default in the future. Heck, it ain't jre's or clr's that boost an OS, it's, "Developers, developers, developers, developers." Maybe MS sees the more the merrier, and would prefer things like Sun's Mad Hatter not gain any special traction. Reminds me a little of AOL dropping Mozilla (which it based the OS X AOL client on as proof of concept in the Great Game of 0110 Chicken 2003) the second after MS relicensed them the IE engine.

"Supports Solaris 9 Operating System x86 Platform Edition and standard Linux distributions from Sun".

Mention that again when they pull the word Linux off of all their web pages, and I'll believe you. (winks).

"Supports Solaris 9 Operating System x86 Platform Edition and standard Linux distributions from Sun".

Mention that again when they pull the word Linux off of all their web pages, and I'll believe you. (winks).

From the press release:
"Patents and Intellectual Property: The parties have agreed to a broad covenant not to sue with respect to all past patent infringement claims they may have against each other. The agreement also provides for potential future extensions of this type of covenant. The two companies have also agreed to embark on negotiations for a patent cross-license agreement between them. "

I expect Solaris10-patent/Linux lawsuits to follow. With the MSFT involvement, I think Sun's the next SCO.

STOP WRITING APPLETS

You're just ticking everyone off. Most web users hate it when they come to a page and have to wait for the applet to load so they can use their browser again. If you want to deploy an application easily, use Java Webstart.

Try this.

1. Go here.
2. After you come back, click on this link: Launch Now!.

More great Webstart apps can be found at Up2Go.

If you are open to Java, I would recommend checking out the Java Tutorial, as it will get you started with step-by-step... using it, I *never* have to deal with OS-specific APIs anymore, and regularly develop my BSD apps on my Windows box.

Just my 2 cents.

The Java Enterprise System _does_ have something to do with Java, doesn't it?

The core set of the enterprise network services that the Java Enterprise System delivers are: Network Identity, Web and Application, Portal, Communications and Collaboration, Availability, and Security services.

haven't really tried it out, but I'm pretty sure it's free

I think more accurately it should be called the 'C' desktop.

Yes, because that wouldn't cause any confusion with an existing product either.

When I went to price out one of Sun's new AMD systems, I was somewhat disappointed. First of all, the website does not give the level of detail that Dell's does. I want to know everything about the system from ram speed, to hd speed, to bus speed, etc. Then, I want much more ability to configure scsi, ide, raid levels, etc. On top of that, it was pretty expensive. You can get a dual xeon dell with 2GB of ram, 15K rpm scsi for about $1,000 less than a bare bones sun with an amd chip. For what it's worth, IBM is much worse in this regard when pricing any of their systems online. I think they're even more expensive and the website sucks way more.

First of all, you must not have looked very hard, because if you go to the main SunFire V20z server page and click on the Datasheet link halfway down the page, you get all of the specs you could ever want, including RAM speed and hard drive speed.

Second of all, on the price issue: You're not comparing Apples to Apples if you compare it with a Xeon server. Xeon is only a 32-bit architecture, which is severely memory bandwidth starved, as all processors in the system share the same paltry 533-mhz. memory bus. AMD's Hypertransport gives each processor dedicated channels to accesss memory with. Not only that, you're getting a full 64-bit machine, which runs circles around similarly equipped Xeons. If you don't believe me, Tom's Hardware recently did a comparison between dual and quad servers running Opteron and Xeon processors, and the Opterons ate the Xeons for lunch. I can't seem to find the exact link to the article, but it was posted on Slashdot a little while back.

Third, anyone who has purchased Sun hardware before knows that the price listed on the web is the "suggested retail price", and that you should call a local Sun reseller to get a much better price.

After you've gotten a real price, compare the two and I think you'll be surprised to see the Sun is actually cheaper than the Dell. On their low-end servers Sun has actually reached price parity and even beats Dell on most similar configurations. This is something that not a lot of Dell customers are even aware of, since most of them don't purchase Sun on a regular basis.

So, your purchasing choice really comes down to a support question:

Do you want Dell to provide your hardware support, and purchase Linux support from a third-party vendor like Red Hat with their Advanced Server package? (Be sure to add that $1500 license fee into the cost of your server)

-or-

Do you want Sun to be your one stop shop for both hardware and software support, freeing you up to do your job and not having to worry about the whole hardware vs. software support issue?

I think if you actually priced in all the support costs the Sun box actually ends up giving you a lower TCO. Most Sun Enterprise customers know this, and prefer to have just one vendor to call when anything goes wrong.

When I went to price out one of Sun's new AMD systems, I was somewhat disappointed. First of all, the website does not give the level of detail that Dell's does. I want to know everything about the system from ram speed, to hd speed, to bus speed, etc. Then, I want much more ability to configure scsi, ide, raid levels, etc. On top of that, it was pretty expensive. You can get a dual xeon dell with 2GB of ram, 15K rpm scsi for about $1,000 less than a bare bones sun with an amd chip. For what it's worth, IBM is much worse in this regard when pricing any of their systems online. I think they're even more expensive and the website sucks way more.

First of all, you must not have looked very hard, because if you go to the main SunFire V20z server page and click on the Datasheet link halfway down the page, you get all of the specs you could ever want, including RAM speed and hard drive speed.

Second of all, on the price issue: You're not comparing Apples to Apples if you compare it with a Xeon server. Xeon is only a 32-bit architecture, which is severely memory bandwidth starved, as all processors in the system share the same paltry 533-mhz. memory bus. AMD's Hypertransport gives each processor dedicated channels to accesss memory with. Not only that, you're getting a full 64-bit machine, which runs circles around similarly equipped Xeons. If you don't believe me, Tom's Hardware recently did a comparison between dual and quad servers running Opteron and Xeon processors, and the Opterons ate the Xeons for lunch. I can't seem to find the exact link to the article, but it was posted on Slashdot a little while back.

Third, anyone who has purchased Sun hardware before knows that the price listed on the web is the "suggested retail price", and that you should call a local Sun reseller to get a much better price.

After you've gotten a real price, compare the two and I think you'll be surprised to see the Sun is actually cheaper than the Dell. On their low-end servers Sun has actually reached price parity and even beats Dell on most similar configurations. This is something that not a lot of Dell customers are even aware of, since most of them don't purchase Sun on a regular basis.

So, your purchasing choice really comes down to a support question:

Do you want Dell to provide your hardware support, and purchase Linux support from a third-party vendor like Red Hat with their Advanced Server package? (Be sure to add that $1500 license fee into the cost of your server)

-or-

Do you want Sun to be your one stop shop for both hardware and software support, freeing you up to do your job and not having to worry about the whole hardware vs. software support issue?

I think if you actually priced in all the support costs the Sun box actually ends up giving you a lower TCO. Most Sun Enterprise customers know this, and prefer to have just one vendor to call when anything goes wrong.

here is some more info and screenshots of Sun's Java Desktop System.

Here's the details, straight from the source, in case anyone wants to broaden their understanding of exactly what it is:

Sun Java Desktop System

Actually, the blurb about being the "first viable Microsoft Windows alternative" comes straight from Sun's mouth:

Sun Java Desktop System

Nevertheless, it's certainly a big nose thumbing to Apple.

Ha, ha, ha! Macintosh was never an alternative! In your face, Apple!

And, Jon Schwartz indicated that Sun was undergoing an internal migration to this desktop this summer.

So, how's it really going?

I'd expect some of the technology worker bees and programmers not to have much difficulty moving to something like this, but how about further up Sun's management hierachy that lives and breathes things like Excel spreadsheets and Powerpoint presentations?

Is Jon Schwartz running the Java Desktop 24/7, including on the road or does he have to cheat by using VMWare or borrowing his secretaries Windows box?

Actually, the tagline "the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative" originates with Sun, not with Walmart. Check out Sun's JDS webpage - the very first line includes the "first viable Microsoft Windows alternative" phrase.

Its been around for a while, I like its clean look. Here's more info

There's certainly some justification that COBOL makes a better langauge for implementing business rules than either Perl or Java.

Already happening to some extent:

ACE

However you'd still need to be a programmer to use this, this isn't like your secretary can start creating enterprise level apps.

Of course no doubt that the mighty, quality driven, innovative M$ will claim they did this first.

Bill Gate$ = the worlds most "intelligent" idiot.

All they ask is that someone give them a first-class GUI toolkit at no cost, and with no strings attached! Is that so much to ask?

Sounds reasonable to me.