Slashdot Mirror
Wal-Mart Sells PCs Preloaded With Sun's Linux
badboy3062 writes "Wal-Mart this week started selling Microtel PCs preloaded with Sun's Java Desktop System. Prices start at under $300 for a system without a floppy drive or monitor. Jonathan Schwartz, Sun's executive vice president for software, says this move is just another step in its plan to gain new audiences for its technologies."
No... must... not... shop... at... evil... Wal*Mart... must... stay... away...
It kind of pains me to see this. Why does a store that I hate have to go and do something that smacks of coolness? Why couldn't it be Target or KMart?
And isn't Microtel a motel chain?
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
This sounds great at first glance but my gut feeling is that most of these units sold will be reformatted with Windows. That's the ugly truth methinks.
Trolling is a art,
Does Sun require an annual support subscription for these things, like their enterprise versions?
Because if so, there's going to be a lot of unpatched Linux boxes out there in a year or so.
Reading the Walmart page (link in the article, or http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?cat=395 1&dept=3944&product_id=2592736&path=0%3A3944%3A395 1%3A41937%3A86796%3A132690) I finding it amusing that WalMart sells the Sun Linux OS as "the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative." Does this mean that Lindows and Mandrake, sold on other WalMart cheap-PC's isn't a viable alternative?
Sun's Linux? Sun has their own flavour of Linux now? Who knew?
Mod +5 Drunk
Because you know that a floppy drive adds hundreds to the manufacturing cost.
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
What's up with everyone wanting to put their linux stuff in walmart? Does it actually amount to sales? My guess is that having something to sell in Wallmart is more about PR than sales.
To CAPTCHA or not to CAPTCHA?
Saturday March 13, @06:12PM
Pending
Why Don't I Have a Girlfriend?
Saturday February 07, @10:22PM
Pending
And here is the link to the accessory they recommend for this item (guess who).
I don't know whether this is informative or humorous. I chuckled and shook my head at the same time.
Microsoft Trackball Optical
HAHAHAHAHAH
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
From what I understand, It's a Linux system, running a modified Gnome with some extra nicely well done integration with Java's runtime. I think more accurately it should be called the 'C' desktop.
I wonder if it's bundled with 'digital ready' speakers.
Does it hurt to hear them lying? Was this the only world you had?
here you go
as low as $288
vodka, straight up, thank you!
clicky
I am an IT (greatly diminished by the times) and I still need to use a floppy from time to time for standard office tasks or to move something small quickly across the room. It is handy to secure something small as management demands it sometimes. I am happy to oblige because if I hand it to then then at least it's part of their responsibility now (LOL silly them). How does everyone else feel?
Wal-Mart, USA's largest retailer and biggest employer, set on stage to go head to head with Microsoft, evil software giant extrodinare. Something tells me Ali vs. Foreman this ain't.
You can't spell LOLCATZPURR without TROLL.
Yeah, they try to hide it by calling it "Sun Java Desktop" or some such. Go figure.
"Sun has delivered the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative. The Java desktop system is a more affordable, secure desktop, designed to thrive in a Windows-centric world and run thousands of Java technology-based applications."
It goes on and on, including mentioning that it comes with StarOffice, it can exchange files with MS Office, it isn't prone to viruses, etc. They really are doing a good job at selling this to the average person and letting them know that there is a pretty viable option to Windows (other than mac of course)
But does it run Windows?
This will be interesting to see what Micros~1 does against this. Microsoft is big, but I do think Walmart might be bigger in terms of value. Not sure about who lobbies the most.
I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
It's just marketing-speak. The Walmart page is an advertisement, after all.
The local pc shop in my area sells that case for $6 bucks. I wonder if it's NEBS level 3 certified?
*groans* Now customers are going to call me... "How do I set up my server?" - "Sir, where did you get that server? HP? IBM?" - "Wal-mart!"
Those are "Lindows" machines, not "Sun Java Whatever" machines.
and I still need to use a floppy from time to time for standard office tasks or to move something small quickly across the room. It is handy to secure something small as management demands it sometimes.
In Soviet Russia, drive flashes you!I can see it now
"Hello AOL internet support, how can I help you?"
"I just bought this PC from wallmart and I can't check my mail"
The Java Desktop is a subscriber product did Wal~Mart get a discount due to expected volume or does the end user have to pay an annual maintenance fee for updates. IIRC it was $50-$100 per year depending on if you got it during the big sale (possibly still in progress). Having to pay that sort of maintenece costs would seem to push users toward Mandrake.
I'm actually curious because I had the same idea, but didn't investigate it far enough to see if SUN was willing to cut OEM customers a break. It would be nice to advertise a SUN operating system that everyone is hearing so much about rather than the scary (to small customers) Linux.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
is that why sun didn't want to open up java? to protect their new java desktop "os"?
hmmm....
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
So, does this mean that wal*mart is going to start stocking software for linux as well? Or just the cool windows games as usual?
-- The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thi
This is a genius price, and wal-mart's massive distribution capabilities could easily push the desktop market dramatically in the direction of linux. How large is wal-mart? Let me give an example. There's the story of the local piemaker who won a contract with wal-mart to sell his pies. Wal-mart ordered 10,000 TRUCKLOADS of pies! If they can do that kinda volume on the linux machines, Microsoft's in for a ride. Fortune 500: Microsoft = #46, Walmart = #1. Walmart wins!
In other news, see my artist interview at fulcrum gallery.
stuff |
My friend has a machine from Wal-Mart, and I'm reasonably sure that he couldn't run Linux to save his life. Most Wal-Mart PC customers aren't going to be comfortable with that kind of power. After all, these are (more-or-less!) the dregs of the technology world; people so far from the bleeding-edge that...I mean, they buy PC's at Wal-Mart. The only effect this is going to have is to expand our reputation for making geek-use-only software. And, of course, boost Dell sales.
Selling *anything* at WallyWorld practically guarantees broad exposure in markets that a vendor might not otherwise reach. Imagine if - years ago - you could have walked into [that store] and picked up an Ultra 10. I use the U10 as an example because it is/was essentially a low-end, mass-marketed (sort of) item from the Sun line. Wal-mart would be unlikely to carry the Ultra 60 just like they are unlikely to carry gigantic plasma TVs: the clientele probably are not the ones to buy high-end merchandise (or at least not buy it there).
PS Microtel makes very, very small communications devices. You're welcome.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Hope they weren't indending to sell any Macs.
Atheism is a non-prophet organisation
But chocolate cream pies don't run monolithic kernels with GUI's built on GTK, baked by a thousand international (amateur) chefs.
Wal-mart selling another distro of linux on "their" PC's. That's kinda nifty, but it does make one ask the question:
Could this mean they'll get a clue and make their music store compatible with the computing systems they sell?
(Perhaps maybe around the time when we see Mac OS X run natively on a Microtel PC).
Said alternative is Linux, not Sun's distribution. Read that way, Sun is delivering the first viable alternative to Windows, just as Red Hat, Mandrake, and Debian are also delivering it.
I think that Apple has stronger grounds to be annoyed at that statement, but Sun and Wal-Mart could make the case that Mac OS doesn't run on x86 machines, so it's not a drop-in replacement for Windows.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Don't you mean...ya think? Dumb ass! :)
some one has a hard on for the word "some".
They might also do for a cheap unix/linux developer box should a PC die unexpectedly at your work place. Being able to pop out and get a PC with Linux preloaded saves quite a bit of setup time and if that saves half a day of installation work that would save money.
Once a product goes to walmart if local competitors don't sell anything else that isn't sold in walmart, they will be crushed and destroyed.
Eventually, though it may take some time to get there, walmart will be all that's left.
These guys are just getting their foot in the door.
U mean me? Or parent? Or the mods that made parent +3 insightful? Anonymous prick. ;p
I just had a client order a PC from Walmart 3 weeks ago, and I thought the cost (with Lindows, not the Sun offering) was more like $215, though that was with 64M RAM. I thought it was $265 after shipping.
Oh well. Still better than paying the Microsoft tax.
- Nice, wide aisles crammed with displays and products, only allowing enough space for a single cart on either side of said display.
- The nearly universal rudeness of the patrons of said store to STOP right in the middle of said aisle and block the way of others.
Because of these two reasons:I talk about stuff.
So, let me take a guess and assume that the primary user is running with root level permissions? That may not be a good thing given 99% of the people who would buy a PC at Wal-Mart probably can't manage/secure their Windows based PC let alone a Linux box.
for the most part this is useless, hardware, why not buy a dell, with twice the processing power for 499, keep the ms windows xp disk, in cas eyou change your mind, and install whichever flavor of linux you want and have a pc that is much quicker, (hardware not os) now if dell sold the same hardware subtracting the cost of windows, then wed all be happier more productive and reliable
is the fact that you can't walk in to Wal-Mart and pick one of these up. They're only available online.
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
I've heard really good things about Sun's Java Desktop Linux. If it's based on SuSE (9.0 is so !@#$ sweet it's not even funny), it's gotta be good. I've considered purchasing the $50 discount copy, but I still wonder what their server strategy is. I actually prefer linux on the server to solaris for a lot of reasons, as I don't do anything high level enough to require a sparc. I want an end to end solution, and Sun is making it difficult.
Basically, I like the idea of using the same distribution for the server and my desktop. I can install SuSE on everything from my desktop to the Dell blade servers that I install, and it just works. This is very appealing, since I can become familiar with the environment by using it on my desktop in addition to the server.
When I went to price out one of Sun's new AMD systems, I was somewhat disappointed. First of all, the website does not give the level of detail that Dell's does. I want to know everything about the system from ram speed, to hd speed, to bus speed, etc. Then, I want much more ability to configure scsi, ide, raid levels, etc. On top of that, it was pretty expensive. You can get a dual xeon dell with 2GB of ram, 15K rpm scsi for about $1,000 less than a bare bones sun with an amd chip. For what it's worth, IBM is much worse in this regard when pricing any of their systems online. I think they're even more expensive and the website sucks way more.
Then, you have the option basically for solaris x86 (32 bit) or supplying your own SuSE 64 bit (community edition, whatever that means), or RedHat enterprise.
My conclusion is that Sun is still not going after the low end. I don't know if they just can't get the economies of scale or what, but don't sell an entry level server and pretend that you're going to offer a "premium" entry level server when the website is worse, you have fewer config options, and the price is way more than can be justified.
That said, I hope they read this stuff and adapt. How hard can it be to provide an entry level server when plenty of white box places do it even cheaper than Dell??? I can't even imagine what you get for the premium price tag.
Still, I would love the idea if they gave me a Java Server system with Linux on the bottom of the stack with Java completely installed, configured, and supported, and the option for the Java Enterprise system on top of it. What's with their affinity for Solaris, especially on the low end servers? Even if it's better in some regards, it's not as familiar, performs worse, is difficult to get app support for, etc. Give me the real deal please, which for me is Linux.
The first mac (not apple II/III variant) I ever played with was a 9" B/W fishbowl mac running 7/7.1 at the local wal mart, it just looked cooler than those AST/ACER/Packard Bell Win 3.1 systems, but no games and double the pricetag, no thanks.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Actually, the tagline "the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative" originates with Sun, not with Walmart. Check out Sun's JDS webpage - the very first line includes the "first viable Microsoft Windows alternative" phrase.
OK, skip walmart and go here, buy your system, and download/purchase your favorite distro and install. It seems there are some even better systems for less than the Wal-Mart price.
I think Sun is serious about becoming the biggest Linux vendor, as they suggested a year ago with their china deal where McNealy said "This, I believe, makes us instantaneously the number one Linux desktop play in the planet."
If they're going for volume, you can't beat Wal*Mart and China.
Does that mean we'll see them in a bulk pack of 5 for only $1000 at Sams? Sweet! When I get my 10000 pack of Ramen Noodles, I can get a pack of Linux computers too. Yeah-Hoo!
Welcome to Soviet Russia.
Walmart.com actually has had a lot of options in terms of pre-loaded OS's. They come / have come with Windows, Lindows, Lycoris, Mandrake, Sun Java Desktop, and FreeDOS. Or you can get them naked.
True, all of these are cheaper than Windows (except for, of course, Windows), but if all Walmart was interested in was being Cheap, they would all be using Lindows (remember flat rate licensing?). The inclusion of Lycoris and Sun Java Desktop is an indication that they see value in having a variety of Linux desktops available.
Now, it may very well be that they simply contract out through individual companies, so that if someone wants to sell a Lycoris desktop through Walmart.com it presents no risk to Walmart, but that doesn't mean Walmart is inherently exploitive.*
*on this particular issue.
The ______ Agenda
Can you even download Sun's Linux? If you can, I am completely list as to how/where. Support for linux on my sparc32 is bleak... something officially from Sun would be nice.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
By your logic, Because walmart always wins ( and believe me I agree 100%), ANY PRODUCT they sell will defeat their competing products. Ok, Walmart sells coke, therefore Walmart will crush pepsi. Walmart also sells Pepsi, therefore Walmart will crush Coke. So who wins? Sams Choice Cola.
Walmart likes to help its vendors... at first. They worked exclusively with Tide to see if they could reducce their operating costs. Great, Tide now operated more efficently as a compnay. Then Walmart introduced Great Value Liquid Clothes detergent (compare with Tide!). Walmart might be working with Sun, but noting that they are essentially just selling a free OS, Its just a mater of time before Walmart introduces the even lower cost Great Value Linux . It will happen, believe you me.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
this is great - $100 per user! Sun is one greedy corporation! $100 or mostly free software???
This is good for free software, open source, java, and me personally. Kudos, finally Sun is doing something right. What's their stock at today?
Most likely, Microsoft has enough other outlets that they can tell WalMart to take it or leave it.
Conversely, where else is WalMart going to get a best of breed[1] desktop OS? ([1]well, that's how the retail world sees it...)
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Painted into a corner again, damn. Just when you thought it would be easy they create a problem due to their cheapness. "fix that problem quick AND get all your production work done" during the regular day without any overtime. I lways get the floppy drive anyway F the employer. This employer always creates artificial deadlines just cause he likes deadlines. This assumption that the OS will boot off cd does not hold if the employer is using obscure boxes or pirated whoiknowswhereitcamefrom os cd's. (suggestions not to pirate or to standardize are laughed at)
Sorry, I did not intend my earlier comment for flamebait. But I still believe that Linux is not suitable for people being introduced for the first time. With windows or macintosh, a non tech-savvy user can modify settings, install/uninstall software, and manage devices (cameras, scanners, etc) with friendly wizards. Linux, while it has made great steps in this direction, can't be as user-friendly as OS X. If these browser/shoppers could have a little training, this would be great for linux. But I think dropping machines with Linux on unsuspecting moms and families is a bad idea.
If they take all the GPL software and bundled it with non-GPL software, do they have to give the source for everything? Or just the originally GPL'ed software? (in any case, I should be able to get the 'improved' gnome source?)
buy a mini cd-rw and burn whatever you wanted to move. it's that easy.
There are going to be a lot of systems out there with root passwords of "password" soon ;^)
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
The only people who would buy a non-MS PC are relatively technically competent ("enough to be dangerous"), and the majority of these folks should be smart enough to know what a bad deal this is--you can piece together a much better system for the same $$$. Hello, eBay? So the target audience is...?
Linux = Anti-Monopoly Walmart = Attempting a Monopoly Why Sun..... Wwwwwhhhhhhyyyyyy???
you might notice the following:
The PC is up on blocks.
The case has a shotgun rack
The customer wears a wife-beater shirt with a penguin on the front.
There are dipstick oil marks on the floppy drive.
The hard drive is full of Johnny Cash MP3s.
The case is modded with a transparent confederate flag window.
The mousepad is red and black plaid.
Traces of pig feces on the keyboard.
The open source internet browser default page is www.y'all.com.
The USB port cover panel is welded shut.
The wallpaper on the desktop is of a scanned black velvet Elvis painting.
The case has a side-mounted spitoon.
The customer added an 8-track tape player in one of the drive bays.
There are John Deer stickers on the case.
-
I believe you are correct about the profits portion of the equation. But you forgot to include the support costs of floppies.
There are a limited number of moving parts in those computers. A floppy drive is a moving part and the only one (other than the CD) that the user is expected to jam things into.
Not including it does boost profits.
-and-
Not including it means one less thing that is likely to break and result in a phone call and/or replacement.
When you're looking at profits that small per unit, you do NOT want to waste any of it on a support call because someone jammed a floppy disk in upside down or put in a floppy with a bent metal slide.
What's the big deal here. If you go to Dell.com and click on Small Business you can get a Poweredge server for $279 with the following components:
Intel P4 2.4 Ghz
40 GB Hard Drive
128 MB Memory
Floppy Drive
48x CD-ROM
($379-$100 mail in rebate) I hate mail in rebates!!!!
This is basically a low-end desktop with no OS. Load your favorite distro and there you go!!
I think it's great that a company is selling computers preloaded with Linux but this really isn't news.
I don't know what the Sun Java Desktop is like personally, but it is probably pretty good - Gnome and StarOffice and all that jazz.
As such it should handle what most people use a PC for pretty well - internet, e-mail, chatting, letter to the bank manager.
You don't need Windows XP for these tasks.
Now the price is a bit high given the hardware - you could build the same for a lot less, but Walmart will be making a slice and Sun will be too I imagine.
And these boxes will be faster than 2.8GHz Celeron boxes judging from reviews online.
Walmart can now go to Bill Gates and say "give us a discount ... or else".
It's called leverage in business negotiations.
Man I have bought a bunch of these boxes. I normally buy the cheap 200 dollar not loaded model and throw fedora core on them and give them to our customers. In the two years now of running them I only had one that had the power supply give up the smoke. For non power users that just want to surf the web and do a occasional spread sheet the box is more than fast enough.
Got Code?
Can't we then just lock them inside and burn the place down?
Also I think we could do without the pig feces.
I'm not sure Java Desktop System is right for home users. It's SuSE stripped down so that there are only one or two choices per application.
No KDE, only GNOME. In fact, I can install other window managers, but I can't add them to the greeter.
Only Mozilla for browser, only Evolution for email, etc. It makes sense from Sun's perspective to limit the number of applications their help desk has to support, but it can be difficult adding packages. Dependency nightmare.
JDS is targeted to businesses, not home users. It's lacking in multimedia applications out of the box. They can be added, but they aren't there initially.
I like it. It's pretty. I use it every day for work. But I like Mandrake more for home use.
The Microsoft Mouse adds 10% to the cost of the computer. Pretty amazing considering not so long ago, $300 was 10% of the cost of the computer.
Despite his flamebait tone, the parent post has a good point.
We shouldn't forget that this is the company that was using illegal immigrants as below-minimum-wage night custodians. When the feds raided them they claimed ignorance of the illegals, blamed it on a sub-contractor, and made sure the feds didn't arrest the illegals until the end of their shift so the stores were bright and shiny the next day.
And that's just one of many problems at Wal-Mart.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
"The problem is that they DO destroy small towns. Go to any small town in the South or Midwest"
The small towns stores destroy themselves by not bothering to serve the customers.
Want a USB cable at 9:15 PM? Go to Wal-Mart and get it. If you go downtown, you will find that the stores have already closed about 4 hours ago. They did not even want your business.
"Where I live, big box retailers are not allowed"
Sounds kind of fascistic.
"A Wal-Mart would completely obliterate that."
Not if the downtown actually decides it wants customers.
The folks at sub300 for instance sell a sub US$ 300 PC with 256 Mb, that's more like it (no link provided because I am really not posting a plug).
yea.. its cool that they are letting these systems go for so cheap.. but i do agree that their distro of linux is not very good..
replacing it with a more customized distro would be a big help for people that are reselling the machine to others i need.. the price is right.. and atleast more and more of the general public is now becoming aware of the name, "Linux" which is the most important part of first stage promotion..
- Hi I'm Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux, Lih-nix..
Didn't Sun also get a big JDS contract with China, recently? This, along with HP and IBM boosing Linux is really great news. Hopefully, we can put off World War III long enough to finally enjoy ubiquitous desktop Linux.
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
As a Sun solution provider and Java ISV I'm shocked that Sun's Java Desktop program is geared to prevent Java Web Start applications from making it on the CD. To be certified you need to provide "scripts" to install/uninstall - which are processes handled by Java Web Start already. Emails about this to folks in the program and my rep go unanswered.
More interesting is that WalMart is preloading OpenOffice on their low-end Windows PCs. That's will accelerate OpenOffice deployment. Lots of kids are going to be doing their book reports on OpenOffice.
wal-mart got to be #1 by doing things better, faster, and cheaper than their competition.
/.er
Wal-mart's original website was a horrible mess of asp on a all MS platform. They replaced it with a linux front end after a very short time. It was big news at the time but is probably pre-history for the average
joel
Forgive my ignorance for knowing next to nothing about linux other than you need to mess with a lot of config files to make it work. What happens if Jane Public buys a copy of The Sims and tries to install it on this linux box?
I'd say if it doesn't install every bit as easily as it would on windows (ie: insert CD, click okay a few times, then ready to play), then Jane Public will forevermore considder linux and anything to do with it to be crap, and will have windows installed just as fast as she can borrow a windows install CD from a sympathetic friend. That right there is the ultimate hurdle that Linux -must- overcome before ever hoping to compete seriously with MS.
Great idea, but MAN is that an oogly looking box.
Walmart shoppers are middle America, buying censored CDs of the latest MTV pseudo-punk band. You need to give them something Carson Daly would use.
Share and Enjoy!
"At first I thought Apple was crazy for not including a floppy, but now I think Jobs was being a visionary"
He was an idiot. He stopped shipping Mac's with floppies at a time when floppies were still very commonly used. This resulted in scrambling for third-party dongle-drives.
The PC market, being pretty much open to its customers and their current needs, only started to ship floppiless much later, responding to actual consumer demand.
I for one welcome the overthrow of our slow unreliable puny 1.44mb overlords! These things should have been obsoleted years ago.
At the time of Job's ill-conceived attempt at "obsoleting", they were the standard for removable storage. This was the time before USB drives and when CD burners were much slower and cost $130+.
And, Jon Schwartz indicated that Sun was undergoing an internal migration to this desktop this summer.
So, how's it really going?
I'd expect some of the technology worker bees and programmers not to have much difficulty moving to something like this, but how about further up Sun's management hierachy that lives and breathes things like Excel spreadsheets and Powerpoint presentations?
Is Jon Schwartz running the Java Desktop 24/7, including on the road or does he have to cheat by using VMWare or borrowing his secretaries Windows box?
"Provided by the management for your protection."
"Wal-Mart Sells PCs Preloaded With SCO's Linux"?
Is anyone else bothered that the desktop enviroment is named "Sun's Java Desktop System"? Why did they do that? From what I've seen/read about the desktop, it's Gnome, or a modified version of it, that has nothing more to do with Java than any other *nix desktop, right? Are they trying to pass Java off as a generic desktop name? When I see it I think if a *shudder* desktop running pure java! Would somebody please think about the refresh rates!
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
Do not. I repeat! Do not ever again say anything like this in a public forum that ????????? might read.
I would not put starting wars to preserve a monopoly beyond certain companies with a virtual monopoly in the PC OS arena. Just saying this might give ???? ????? the idea that a war between US and France would let ????????? keep their monopoly in the EU.
If there is one company that can stand up to Microsoft and sell the OS that they want, it's WalMart.
The other computer OEMs haven't done it. They're not big enough to say "screw you, MS, were not paying $100/license"
WalMart is extremely interested in delivering the lowest price to their consumers, and removing the Microsoft OS is one way to do it.
http://github.com/gbook/nidb
A solid piece of hardware - I now have three operating in various capacities around the house - but noisy like you wouldn't believe. I've become accustomed to some minimal amount of acoustic engineering going into boxes these days -- all of the name brand boxes have an average (low) amount of noise. Not so with the Microtel. The power supply has a whoosh to it, and the CPU fan a bit of a low whir. You may be able to remedy this with a replacement low-noise PS.
Not bad for under $300, but, as always, you get what you pay for.
Why don't we have boxes with external (fanless - noiseless) power supplies? Everything that goes on inside the box is low voltage DC, right?
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
...so what is your point? If all the poor (and/or price conscious) people shopping at WalMart give their kids a cheap linux computer...then BOOM...linux is the OS that the unwashed masses are familiar with. Windows will be seen as the overpriced POS it is. Windows became popular because it was cheap and almost freely available...such is happening to Linux, except Linux is actually a quality product, and the hardware necessary to run is it practically free.
Think about it, Linux, which is free, can run on hardware that costs as much as a Windows license alone.
I'd never buy anything from these union busting assholes
Wal-Mart lets anyone give money to a union who wants to. However, they will not force their employees to join unions against their will. They leave it up to employees whether or not to support these political organizations that really have nothing to do with the job.
This is only called "union busting" by the most extreme union thugs.
Every Wal Mart I've been to always feels crowded (with people reminding me of well preserved zombies, minus the need to feed on raw flesh) to me. Hence the clausterphobia and murderous rampage urges.
I talk about stuff.
This is great until Microsoft gets ahold of an RFID scanner.
Its just a mater of time before Walmart introduces the even lower cost Great Value Linux . It will happen, believe you me.
Except Linux is already pretty much free. How are they going to undercut that any further?
Now, I have that exact keychain drive and it actually appears as a 64MB partition. Out of that box of floppies, I'd be surprised if more than 80% work for more than one day. Also, given that every computer I've seen in recent memory has a USB port, and very few have floppy drives, it's more likely that you can use that keychain drive without purchasing additional hardware.
More expensive? Nah. They've been cheaper for a while now.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
here is some more info and screenshots of Sun's Java Desktop System.
It's not gratis at all for corporate use. You have to pay someone to make a distribution for you, whether by paying Red Hat a lot of money, or by paying your IT staff a lot of money. Even if Wal-Mart decided to undercut Sun by making their own "Sam's Choice Linux", they'd have to hire a department of technicians to build it, test it, and get it ready for release.
As long as Sun can do that cheaper than Wal-Mart can do it for themselves, they'll get the business. That is how you undercut "free".
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
You are a guest there; if you do not like it, dont go there. I, for one, have no problem at all with them checking my Wal-Mart bags. Shoplifting does happen, a lot. Your civil rights are not being violated; your right to steal might be.
They left the State of Nebraska, oh wait there are 2 for the whole state.
Kosh: "Understanding is a 3 edged sword, your side, their side, the Truth."
Electronics Computers Desktops Microtel PCs Sun Java Desktop Systems
Microtel SYSWM8001 PC With AMD Duron 1.6 GHz, No Floppy Drive $298.00
Availability: 1 to 4 business days to process before shipping.
Shipping Cost: To see the shipping cost for this item, add it to your cart.
Sun has delivered the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative. The Java desktop system is a more affordable, secure desktop, designed to thrive in a Windows-centric world and run thousands of Java technology-based applications.
Model No. SYSWM8001
Accessories Included Keyboard,Mouse,Speakers.
Description
* AMD 1.6 GHz Duron processor with 3D-Now technology
* 200 MHz frontside bus
* 128 MB 266 MHz DDR memory, expandable to 2 GB
* 1 PC266 DDR DIMM socket available
* 40 GB Ultra ATA-100 hard drive / 5400 rpm (total accessible capacity varies, depending on operating environment)
* 52x CD-ROM drive
* Note: does NOT include a floppy drive
* Integrated 10/100 Ethernet connection
* 56 Kbps modem
* Integrated video with up to 32 MB shared default setting is 16 MB
* Integrated AC'97 Audio
* Mid-tower ATX case (7.25"W x 18.75"D x 16.44"H)
* Available drive bays: external, two 5.25-inch, two 3.5-inch
* Available slots: 2 PCI
* Serial port
* Parallel port
* 4 USB 2.0 ports (2 front-mounted)
* 104-key keyboard
* 2-button mouse with wheel
* Audio port (line-in, line-out, mic-in)
* 14-watt (RMS) stereo speakers
* 1-year warranty, return to manufacturer
* Sun Java desktop system
* Complete desktop environment with office applications (word processor, spreadsheet, presentation, browser, email, calendar)
* Based on Linux operating system
* Uses the security features of Java to prevent unsafe codes, such as viruses, from damaging the system environment
* Additional pre-installed software includes StarOffice 7 Office Suite
* Word processing, spreadsheet, presentation, drawing and database capabilities
* Exchange files with other office suites, including Microsoft Office
* Maintain your current investment in other file formats, and collaborate with users of Microsoft Office
* Seamlessly interchange documents with enhanced Microsoft Office interoperability
* Share files within and outside your organization with the popular PDF read-only format
* Easily mail documents without separately starting up the email client or navigating a file hierarchy
* Bring StarOffice multimedia presentations to virtually any Web browser with the new Export to Macromedia Flash feature
* Any editor that supports XML can be used to read, edit and save StarOffice documents
* File sharing is easy, and users are not locked in to a proprietary vendor format
* Automate repetitive tasks, and assign shortcut keys with the new Macro Recorder
* View, edit and save documents to and from Palm and Pocket PC devices
* Share StarOffice presentations with Web-conferencing support from Placeware
* Easily integrate with MySQL databases to extract, manage and analyze data
* Database Report Autopilot enables quick and easy report generation from databases
* Accessibility features for seeing or hearing-impaired users
Shipping weight in pounds: 30.0
Product Measurement in inches: 16.44 x 18.75 x 7.25
Volts: 110 or 220V
Instruction Manual: Included
Instruction Languages: English
Assembled Country of Origin: USA
Components Country of Origin: USA and/or Imported
But it does have a lot to do with Java. There is Java pre-installed, a reasonable number of Java applications and tools, and StarOffice which has Java as the main way to interface with databases and write extensions.
Perhaps Jane Public should read the requirements printed on the box first.
I agree though, it's silly to try to sell these to people who are bent on running Windows software with no Linux equivalents.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
*She'll find out the hard way that you don't put windows software on a linux machine, just like you don't pump diesel into your Taurus .exe file is clicked on
*Maybe wine will help her out--many distros come configured to fire up wine when an
*XP has activation, so it won't be that easy to "borrow a CD from a sympathetic friend". Unless she's going to go back to 98 or (ugh) ME, she's stuck. Going back to an earlier version of windows will get harder as time goes on--lack of drivers, etc.
"Wintel is cheap and disposable"
What does Wintel have to do with it? These PC's are neither win (being Linux) nor 'tel (being AMD)
Debian would be cheap, or Gentoo, but not lindows. Even Suse is $10 Cheaper.
Kosh: "Understanding is a 3 edged sword, your side, their side, the Truth."
The two cases I know of where this is a factor is in selling modified albums, with the consent of the artist, to change *evil* content, and refusing to stock certain birth control in their pharmacies.
I would be pissed if I bought an album at Wal-mart and came home to find that it wasn't *really* the ablum but some modified version.
WWJD? JWRTFM.
Well, I dare say that it's her own damn fault.
The side of computer software boxe clearly states what the requirements are for running that software. RAM, processor, and operating system requirements are a few.
Buying software and not checking the requirements would be like going into an auto parts store and buying a random air filter that you think looks nice, and expecting it to fit in your car. (If it didn't, I'm sure you wouldn't call your car "crap"...)
Well, I imagine that Walmart or microtel is paying Sun for each version, or perhaps they have a voluem licence. I think Sun is being paid in one form or another. Walmart is very good at undercutting everyone. If there is enough money to be made, they will enter the market. Right now they are probely just using lycris, Lindows, and sun to gage the market and find all of the pitfalls with out spending their own money.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
You have to pay someone to make a distribution for you,
Only if you want to have a custom distro. Otherwise, you can slap Debian on there.
But seeing as how the Java Desktop System normally costs $100/yr, I'd imagine that Wal-Mart is paying Sun something. And a decent Linux hacker can roll a simple distro fairly quick 'n' cheap, by basing it off of another distro.
Home Page Electronics Computers Desktops Microtel PCs Sun Java Desktop Systems
Microtel SYSWM8006 PC With Hyper-Threading 3.0 GHz Pentium 4 & CD-RW/DVD Combo
$698.00
Availability: 1 to 4 business days to process before shipping.
Pentium 4 processor
3.0 Hyper-Threading technology
800 MHz frontside bus
256 MB 400 MHz DDR memory
80 GB Ultra ATA-100 hard drive
CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive
3.5-inch floppy drive
Speakers included
* 800 MHz frontside bus
* 256 MB 400 MHz DDR memory, expandable to 2 GB
* One 184-pin PC400 DDR DIMM socket available
* 80 GB Ultra ATA-100 hard drive / 7200 rpm (total accessible capacity varies, depending on operating environment
* 48x, 24x, 48/16x CD-RW/DVD-ROM combo drive
* 3.5-inch floppy drive
* Integrated Intel Extreme Graphics up to 32 MB, default setting 16 MB
* AC'97 six-channel audio
* Integrated 10/100 LAN
* 56 Kbps PCI data/fax modem
* Mid-tower ATX case (7.25"W x 18.75"D x 16.44"H)
* Available drive bays: external three 5.25-inch, one 3.5-inch; internal four 3.5-inch
* Available slots: 2 PCI, 1 AGP 4x
* Serial port
* Parallel port
* 4 USB 2.0 ports (2 front-mounted)
* 104-key keyboard
* 2-button mouse with wheel
* Audio port (line-in, line-out, mic-in)
* Stereo speakers
* 1-year warranty, return to manufacturer
* Sun Java desktop system
* Complete desktop environment with office applications (word processor, spreadsheet, presentation, browser, email, calendar)
* Based on Linux operating system
* Uses the security features of Java to prevent unsafe codes, such as viruses, from damaging the system environment
* Additional pre-installed software includes StarOffice 7 Office Suite
* Word processing, spreadsheet, presentation, drawing and database capabilities
* Exchange files with other office suites, including Microsoft Office
* Maintain your current investment in other file formats and collaborate with users of Microsoft Office
* Seamlessly interchange documents with enhanced Microsoft Office interoperability
* Share files within and outside your organization with the popular PDF read-only format
* Easily mail documents without separately starting up the email client or navigating a file hierarchy
* Bring StarOffice multimedia presentations to virtually any Web browser with the new Export to Macromedia Flash feature
Shipping weight in pounds: 30.0
Product Measurement in inches: 16.44 x 18.75 x 7.25
Volts: 110 or 220V
Instruction Manual: Included
Instruction Languages: English
Assembled Country of Origin: USA
Components Country of Origin: USA and/or Imported
I saw a bunch of e-machines on sale in my local Walmart. They were decent 2+ GHz boxes with LCD monitors included all for $500. They come packaged in huge cardboard boxes.
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Does anyone know what kind of package management the Java Desktop uses?
The Wal-Mart Prank Part 1 and Part 2 .
Without giving too much away, it concerns a fellow who exacts sweet, sweet pornographic revenge for the loss of his job...
free speach
Did you mean: free speech
it sucks to go into "Joe's Jewlery and Electronics" to shop for a DVD player and have him show you the one model that he stocks, (sometimes), but it is out of stock right now so he shows you a flyer and tells you he'll get it for you in 8 to 10 days
I've had that happen at Sears on a larger and more frustrating scale. Instead of one model, there is an entire 4 x 5 array of DVD players. Every one of the models is out of stock: the only one there is the display model, and they refuse to sell you that one. Then you get a rain check (scribbled on the back of a business card: is this how a huge retailer operates?) but just forget it and go to Best Buy which dares to sell what it sells.
What's with that?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Walmart is a behemoth. This is a good day for Linux, even if the systems are less than what we would build ourselves from scratch. But think of the starving Liberal Arts student who just needs to type up papers and screw around online. This is a good deal. The $300 one is tempting just as a tinker-toy, to see what it can do.
.... If one geek buys one of these boxes and demos it for his/her parents, friends, fellow students, or cult, it could convince some noob that they can use Linux, not just M$. Aside from us buying these, we can get others to buy them and prove Linux is viable. Get the ball rolling!
Remember how Walmart changed the landscape of bar codes on products? Having them onboard is just one step toward breaking down the Redmond monopoly. A small step perhaps, but noteworthy.
So putting our money where our mouths are
Even then, you're paying for the "slap" step. Who decides what packages get included by default? What version of Debian? KDE or Gnome? Which default web browser? Which default mail program? Does the shipped kernel provide full support for every bit of hardware on the system?
Then, you have to pay someone to regression-test new packages and security updates to be reasonably sure that pushing a bugfix to your customers won't result in tens of thousands of disabled machines.
I assume you've heard the phrase "Linux is only free if your time is worth nothing", and in the corporate environment, this is very true: payroll time is, in fact, not very cheap at all. The question is whether Wal-Mart could get the per-unit costs of a home-rolled distribution to be lower than what Sun can offer, and as Wal-Mart isn't in the business of producing software for external clients, that very well may not be the case.
And a decent Linux hacker can roll a simple distro fairly quick 'n' cheap, by basing it off of another distro.
That hacker is wonderful and cost effective if he happens to be you, or if he works for your company and you can have him fix problems on-site as they occur. That same hacker is not useful in the situation where he's building a release that will run on (hopefully) millions of customers' desktops. In that case, you want an engineering team to design a system, then hand it of to a QA team that does their best to break it.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Right under the ad, there's a section called "Accessories We Recommend for This Item"...and the only reccomended accessory is:
Microsoft Trackball Optical
$29.96
Which you can order with your system from Wal-Mart.
"How do you equate Wal-Mart haggling for better prices with Marxism!?"
Wal-Mart would only become like Marxism if they shot half their workers and forced the customers to wait in 3 hour lines to buy anything.
Instead of 3 out of 1,000 stores having workers locked in, you'd have 997 out of 1,000 stores with workers chained to the floor.
Thanks. I take it that you are not one of those who thinks that every time someone wants to open a business somewhere, that it should be put to a vote of the local government?
"Porn shop? Never!"
"Apple Centre? IPod batteries explode. Too dangerous"
Wal-Mart? No K-Mart won't like it
Tobacconist shop? No. Kids love pipe tobacco. Save the kids. No on this to!
Grocery store on Main? There is one on 5th already. One is enough. No."
Per year? I would scoff at an OS that wanted me to pay a yearly licensing fee like this... think about it: the average end user will keep his PC about 2-3 years.. brings the total cost for the OS up around $100-$150.. more expensive than XP home.
I was active in a very minor way with Linux when I worked at Sun. The management just didn't get Linux at the time. It is moves like this that will be necessary to get numbers for Desktop Linux. This is also the sort of thing that is going to be necessary to make the $100 PC happen-and the $50 PC happen. For all of their flaws, Sun and Walmart may be getting that they are companies that benefit by emergence of really low cost personal computing--because sale of really cheap pc's means more sale of servers and software.
Dell could easily sell the computer with Dell Linux and everyone would buy it. Its the Dell name brand that people want, not the Microsoft Windows crap.
They trust Dell, and if Dell were to say that Linux is the next big thing, well it is. Without Dells support Windows XP would have never taken off! Windows 98 was far more compatible at the time and XP wouldnt run any dos based games or 16 bit software.
Why do people use XP now? Because OEMs shoved it down their throats. No one went to a store and purchased XP, XP sold because new computers just come with XP instead of 98/ME. Many people including myself removed XP and put Windows98 or 2000 on there.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
The term "union busting" is typically used now by those who oppose workers rights, and want to force workers to pay lots of money to non-job-related political organizations.
When it comes to the rights of workers to join or not join political organizations, and the rights of thugs to extort money from workers, I'll side with the workers any time.
Unions are way too large in America anyway. About 30% of union members are in the unions against their will, forced by "pay us or we will get you fired" closed-shop rules.
I suspect the same people that will buy these systems are the people that use AOL as their internet provider. I doubt the geek crowd will buy them because they're underpowered. The office "power user" crowd won't buy them because they're not loaded with Windows and Office. The remainder are casual internet users. These people don't know what Windows is, yet alone Linux. Many of these same people also use AOL as their internet provider.
How is Walmart/Sun/Etc... going to deal with the fact that AOL does not run on Linux? I expect massive returns of these computers if that issue isn't solved.
Really? So if you are a guest in my home that means I can require you to undertake a cavity search when you leave to make sure you didn't steal anything?
If I am carrying a bag from your living room, and I didn't come in with one, you wouldn't ask what was going on?
I don't get stopped when walking out of WalMarts without bags full of loot.
I personally think you were being extremely rude. You have some expensive stuff there, just let the poor security people see the receipt and move on!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I read the article. You convinced me. I have a real good reason to hate Wal-Mart now: they sell low-priced pickles. I am now seething with rage.
Dell may help bring a version of windows (such as XP) to the masses. But that's much easier to do than bring a completely different operating system to the masses. I think Dell can help (as well as other vendors). But Linux needs to establish itself as a viable desktop alternative.
What average Joe is going to buy a computer that doesn't have Windows and MS Office on it? Even if there were alternatives (Linux & Open Office) it's a complete turn off and wouldn't work unless the price was drastically different.
Seeing prices on Dell's nowadays...I don't see that happening.
Better than Flickr - Manage, Share, Archive
How is that you can even logically have a mail-in rebate to a mail-order company?
I understand the logic of why they do it. But the fact that "we" as the public go along with that escapes me.
Made-up senerio:
Me: "I'd like to buy your widget for $279"
Them: "That will be $379 on your credit card then?"
Me: "I thought it was $279?"
Them: "It's $379 with a $100 mail-in refund to the manufacturer."
Me: "Aren't you the manufacturer?"
Them: "Yes"
Me: "Don't you know that I'm talking to you and buying it right now? Why do I have to send you proof of purchase and a rebate form, to prove to YOU who I'm talking to, that I purchased the product, that you are selling to me, NOW to get a discount on the price that YOU'VE set?"
"The reason people hate walmart is because Sam Walton didn't practice what he preaced. Remember the big scandal in the 90's"
Do you know anything? Sam died early in 1992, before this scandal broke.
"He's a FUCKING HYPOCRITE"
hehehe. he is a hypocrite because of something he did after he died. hehehe
"This from the man whom preached that buying american products would help the trade defecit."
There actually is no trade defecit. Goods/services/payment traded tend to be of equal value.
Walmart will complain to AOL and they'll add linux support, which, although AOL sucks, would be a good thing for linux. Think about it, TV ads: "AOL 10.0, now supporting Linux" Jo-sumer:"Hey, whats Linux *asks tech at work* So it works just as good or better than windows and its free?! Sign me up!!". Well, we can hope...
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Nonsense? I know many businesses in parts of upstate NY that went out of business because of WalMart (I can provide specific examples). Some of these were other chains, sure, but most were in fact local businesses with local owners. Now all that revenue goes up the chain to the corporate headquarters, and then out to the shareholders. Upstate NY gets NOTHING except $5.15 jobs.....and Chinese-made consumer goods at a low price.
Unless your area never had a viable 'downtown' to begin with, you have no excuse being this ignorant. I suppose few people question things that work in their favor.....
===---===
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Same mouse.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
On a radio interview I heard recently, a journalist who's covered WalMart and (I believe) wrote a book about them pointed out that WalMart has threatened suppliers with having copies of their merchandise made by a Chinese supplier.
This may not be illegal, but it doesn't exactly smack of what nice guys do. It smacks a lot of what mean people do.
Might not need DELL to prove it since HP is stepping up their Linux support and will now pre-load with Linux, I believe Mandrake or SUSE - see recent posts to Slashdot.
Haha, antiunion bullshit.
I believe that the choice of union membership should be the choice of each worker. If being pro-worker-rights makes me anti-union, so be it.
Haha, antiunion bullshit. I guess you like working 60 hours a week and having no safety regulations
That's government, not unions.
Union members forced in against their will?
In most of the United States, workers have no choice about whether to join a union or not. "Closed-shop" is the rule. Only in states where worker's political rights are protected by "right to work" does this not happen.
the liberal media
The liberal media does exist. CBS, NBC, ABC, and CNN have not died yet. There is liberal media, and there is conservative and centrist media also. Pointing out this fact has nothing to do with myth.
I hope you get keyed.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Front access, same access across the aeons, and PHB simplicity. That's why I use still floppies.
I administer dozens of machines -- everything from 386s on up to P4 systems. I buy middle-aged used systems if the task warrants. On some older machines the only input I have other than ethernet (mandatory) is a floppy. No CD!
Even on some P3-ish things, the only FRONT access I have is CD or floppy. I'm not crawling around the back of machines to be raped by dust bunnies just for the privilege of using my USB key to update a network driver or move the average Word doc or run MEMTEST86. Nor is it worth my time to play BIOS olympics with menopausal systems that may or may not be able to boot from that 7 year old CD-ROM drive.
Sure I could install USB extension cables on every machine that needs one but that does NOT cover my install base completely nor does it guarantee the machine can boot from USB. My USB key is still not totally useful, only occasionally useful. And not all my OSes and MBs can do the USB-thing seamlessly anyway...
And don't get me started on CD writers. Training a PHB on how to copy his Word file to a floppy is dead simple. Getting him to understand Nero Burning ROM? BWUAHAHAHA! Not worth it. He'll move dozens of files around using a floppy and a sneaker net quite happily. Having to spend a half hour annoying him with CD burner training? That $7 floppy drive starts to look REAL good...
Add that all up and ONE common thing works for me -- floppy drives. Eventually those older machines will die but I bet I won't build a floppy-less PC for another 3 - 5 years.
(I hear skeptics saying "He said ethernet! He said ethernet! Why does he even need floppies?!" Word docs to the home PC of the PHB who is not on the net very often. MEMTEST86. SPINRITE. Emergency FAT fixes. Older system OS/NIC driver installs. Hard drive migration software. If I were a genius I'd figure out the whole boot from LAN thing (yeah, THAT'S easy...), but I'm a moron.)
I'm thinking about it, therefore I might be.
Articles that talk about cheap pc's with Linux whether its Lindows or Java Desktop System on it. Because its so trivial. Its a FREE OS. They slap it in to say its functional and keep it cheap. There's no glorious mission to bring Linux to the desktop here.
People buy it and I guarantee that after the initial novelty of an 'alternate OS' wears off, that drive goes NTFS. I think I am even being generous at that. I wouldn't be surprised if that boot sector never got read before an 31337 version of Windows XP is already blowing it out.
Sorry guys, nobody cares. No Linux adoption is happening at Wal-Mart today.
[sig]darkfus[/sig]
What we would really like to see from you are PC's WITHOUT an OS at all. That way, you don't have to include any OS specific tech support costs in the price of your machines.
And then they'd probably make the hardware so proprietary that the developers of alternative operating systems can't figure out how to write a driver for it. If you doubt this strategy, then find me the SANE driver for the Microtek Scanmaker 4850 that I got for free.
What is really needed is a super solid browser on top of Linux (pre loaded BTW for the unwashed masses), that can be updated/patched with one click from the vendors site. Most people will never leave the browser, and would not care less what is underneath.
I'm curious, where's the eval. Am I just expected to shell out $100 ($50 discount) for a pile of worthless cr@p? It may be exactly what I've always wanted but - sorry I'm not one for gambling.
I know the computers may not be the best, but I believe that selling computers with Lindows and now Sun's Linux, is a complete step in the right direction of getting another OS choice widely availiable in the market. Most "casual" users don't know how, or wouldn't, install a different OS, but hopefully at least some people will catch on with alternative OS's through computers like these. ^^
"And when their kids grow up, which OS do you think they'll use and trust?"
The cheapest one at wal*mart.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Speaking of which, how hard is it to build ones own laptop. Last time looked( ~ 6 years ago), it was not a real option. Just googled and found nothing interesting. As you say, most of us build our own desktop machines and while I doubt that saves any money anymore, I still think you end up with better quality. Same should be true for a laptop. Pointers appreciated.
Squirrel!
What happens if/when sun's looking glass matures and starts being shipped on Walmart systems? Viewing that side by side with xp makes xp seem less like the luxury option, doesn't it?
However, I'm very happy JDS is shipping on these systems.
You'd need a special custom power connector for it, which would raise the price per unit some, if you changed from good ole' standard.
I think some machines have this already (didnt apple on the cube? maybe im wrong). But your sub-$300 pc is going to cut pennies wherever it can.
-
You're not too quick, it seems. The company (Dell in this case) can offer the product for $279 if they offer it with a rebate. They know that they'll only pay out maybe 50% of the rebates. If they just gave everyone the discount, they know that they could only offer the product at $279 + $50 (i.e. 50% of the $100 rebate). So they would have to advertise it as being $329. If some other company offers a similar product at $279 (after $100 mail-in rebate), more people will go to buy the "$279" one and they'll lose sales.
That's the secret. Rebates are a trick of statistics.
My other first post is car post.
Do you claim that AOL webmail works only from a Microsoft Internet Explorer brand web browser, not the Mozilla web browser that AOL used to bankroll? I don't have an AOL account so I can't check webmail against Mozilla 1.7b.
Selling cheap PCs in 5-packs to home users could in theory solve the problem of multiplayer being better on consoles. Give each member of the family a computer and LAN them up. Then produce el-cheapo games for Sam's Choice Linux, and now Wal-Mart is competing with Nintendo.
I think its great someone finally has a choice in Operating software that comes pre-loaded but I think this is driving our best Friend "Gates" mad...Not that its a bad thing... But can the average Windoze user finally grasp Open Source? Thats the true question...
..is that Wal-Mart recommends a Microsoft Trackball Optical to go along with your purchase of the Microsoft-free PC!!
The trick is to keep walking. Don't stop to let them reply, to get back-up, to close a door or get in your way. Don't even break your stride... "Can I..." "No"... Out.
If you keep walking, they have to physically stop you. If they've got no hard evidence to back up their claims, and they manhandled you in any way, you can press criminal charges for battery against the employee who touched you while suing the store for big bucks.
IANAL, but this was training I received when I worked in retail. Physically touching a suspected shoplifter was a very bad thing and only certain specially-trained security people in the store were authorized to use physical force to prevent a shoplifter from escaping.
As for your "well-timed threat to sue them for false arrest"... The stores don't arrest you. The cops do. The stores may have unlawfully detained you via the threat of physical force and sullied your good name and reputation. They may have also committed battery against you by actually using physical force to detain you. But at any store where they actually train their managers, threatening to sue for "false arrest" over a detainment just makes you look dumb.
Start a happiness pandemic
Customers will return to Solaris one day! After all, if Schwartz said it, it must be true.
and even Scott is a believer:
The "fad will wear off, and big business will come back to Solaris".
Sun, don't worry, everything is great. Everybody else should wake up and smell the java
This will probably just be viewed as a personal rant, probably because it is. It most certainly isn't my patent pending Bullshit Theory of the Day. However, I know that when certain companies get themselves into the Slashdot news they skulk and troll around to see what people are saying.
So here goes.
A little over a month ago, SUN held a little webinar. You sign up for the seminar, watch the keynote, answer some questions, and they promise me a free copy of Java Desktop.
Even before this promise, as a continuing student, I have contacted SUN sales to inquire about educational discounting, because I'm really wanting to get the software installed on something! Even if it means they aren't going to offer me support. Their last response, it's coming soon.
Now all the Wally Worlders are getting their copies of JDS before mine?! Man, that's just annoying.
And what the heck, while I'm ranting and raving and going to be modded into oblivion anyway, what about a copy of Looking Glass to go along with it? I'm more than happy to be a beta.
"Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
I never imagined I'd see Sun products being sold at Wal-Mart!
-Rich
Even though I don't know a lot about that OS, I think that it's really good for more computers to be shipped with Linux. Besides this, Wal-Mart also sells computers stocked with Lycoris. I've actually toyed around on those and they are pretty good -- I love the OS!
Besides Wal-Mart computers, we of course have IBM's computers that come with their variant of Linux and UNIX and HP's new line of corporate computers shipping with MandrakeLinux. 2004 is the year to shine for good ol' Tux!
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
I liked this little blurb in the description:
Note: LindowsOS and other Linux operating systems may not be compatible with some dial-up Internet services, such as AOL or Wal-Mart Connect.
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
Will these boxen be at the store or will they just be mail order?
Religion is the main cause of atheism.
WOW My very own Sun box from WallyWorld!!!! I'm going tomorrow!
And when Walmart releases GreatValue Linux (compare to Lindows!) they will make sure it is AOL compatible, too. Thats a kick in the pants idea, for sure.
$298 that's only R1868 in South Africa at the current exchange rate (likely to continue improving). The cheapest PC's here (whithout an OS) are R3000 = $478.
If stores here started selling computers for under R2000 they would sell fast.
ugly, underpowered, outdated? Why, because dad bought you the latest dual Intel Xeon with a $500 video board so you can frag away with your friends?
I'm writing this from one of those ugly, underpowered, outdated 1.3 Ghz Duron, 128 MB Microtels right now. 1.6 Ghz comparable to a postage stamp? You've been brainwashed by the gaming/hardware industry, my young friend.
While no one I know has purchased Microtels from Walmart, I'd say that's because there aren't any Walmarts in the area. I have, and business associates I know have, purchased Microtels from TigerDirect. I've been run Apache on several of them for about 3 years, with uptimes exceeding a year. Business associates have been using them for file/print, dns, apache, and desktops. Yes, desktops. Instead of spending $600 to $1,000 for business desktops (just the hardware and Windows operating system), they can spend $200-$230 plus shipping, and get a fully functioning computer that is more than sufficient for their offices, and to replace lesser powered, older systems.
Of those that need faster systems for some reason, they are still using the Microtel systems, but are forwarding X over the lan from a more powerful server (still under $1,000, including memory upgrade).
Walmart doesn't sell bath soaps and cereals to your mom, young man. They sell whatever consumer goods to consumers that consumers want or need. And through their wholesale division, they also sell to businesses. But their wholesale division is not located at every location where a regular Walmart is located, so Walmart relies on their Walmart stores to also sell to businesses.
Small businesses far outnumber medium (500+ employees) and large businesses. And small businesses are far more likely to have retail versions of software licenses, including Microsoft server licenses. And they are far more likely to run out and pick up a new desktop or three, on a spur of the moment, or over a weekend, than big businesses (though I've known techs from billion dollar companies do this also).
You may think a Microtel is ugly, outdated, and underpowered, especially if running a Microsoft operating system, but according to some of your fanboy tech enthusiast sites, my 1.3 Ghz Duron powered system will run rings around a 2 Ghz Celery powered system, especially against office productivity testing programs.
One problem was OpenOffice taking long time to load, but that problem was removed with OpenOffice optimizations to memory settings in the 1.0 release, faster startup in the 1.1 release, and the fact that in office settings on a server/client setup with X forwarding, OpenOffice can and often is left running on the server. While KDE is bloated compared to Windowmaker or Xfce, and KDE is often activated as the default environment, it can easily be switched to another lighter desktop, and in that case, can run even on a postage stamp. But the Microtels have no problems running KDE and OpenOffice on them, without a memory or processor upgrade, I should know, I'm doing it now.
Another fact that you or your dad may not have considered coming from a Windows environment, is that because a large number of small businesses are running old systems, dating back to the first generation of pentiums, 486s in some of the small businesses I know, and even Intel 8086s, and 8088s for custom written calculations in DOS that they 1. don't want to pay to have rewritten, and 2. aren't aware that Linux has DOS emulation. The last time I suggested moving off WordPerfect for DOS and onto Linux/OpenOffice, the response was, "why?" "It works". "Why mess with it, if it works?"
Business owners, especially small businesses, are very conservative. If something works, they don't want to upgrad
Depends on how you look at it. Your take is a bit different than mine. I ask, how is AOL going to deal with the fact that Linux is growing at a better than 50% rate, its growth is accelerating, OpenOffice has been measured at greater than 25% penetration in small business already, and that none of these figures take free installs into account?
Perhaps broadband is not the only reason that AOL is bleeding customers so badly.
You may expect massive returns, but since Walmart has been in the Linux desktop market for more than a year, and are expanding their offerings, they don't share your expectations.
Instead of massive returns at Walmart, I expect AOL to roll out a Linux solution within the next 12 months. Probably outside the US first, but I'd bet they enter the US market within the end of the 12 months going forward. I'll bet they even pay Microtel and other Linux hardware manufacturers to include an AOL sign up icon on the Linux desktop (and I'll bet it shows in each of the multiple desktops).
You're not good at reading, it seems.
The parent post that you replied to said this:
> I understand the logic of why they do it. But the fact that "we" as the public go along with that escapes me.
(my emphasis)
And then you explained in detail "why they do it."
I bought three of the Microtels with 1.3 Ghz processors and 128 MB of memory and Lindows on them, when they first came out ($219 plus shipping). I wiped Lindows after looking at it for about ten minutes, then installed Suse 7.3, and have been using them to run apache, dns, mail and a few other services ever since. The two running apache to the public have each had over a year of uptime twice, going down only for a video patch (which required a reboot) which wasn't necessary but I did it anyway. They're not running now because Suse stopped supporting 7.3 for quite a while, and manual patching became a real chore. They go back up with Debian very soon when someone else takes over maintenance.
I know users using Microtels for their desktops now as well. They work great for email, web surfing, OpenOffice, spreadsheets, presentations, and similar tasks. And others are using them with X forwarding over the lan from servers with single and dual Xeons, Opterons, and even slower systems. The Microtels are far cheaper than buying thin clients and paying for Citrix and Windows licensing.
It seems you have a different definition of "power user" than the business market does. According to the analysts and consultants, the "power user" in a business, or the "information workers" make up less than 5% of corporate workers. The other 95% of the office market is wide open. And according to the analysts, OpenOffice in small businesses is in the 25%-35% market range now. I know secretaries and office workers in small business that are using OpenOffice on Linux today, are no longer rebooting their systems in the middle of the day, and are commenting on how much faster their computer is. Do they know they are using Linux? They know they are using something different, and they know it doesn't look like Word, Works, or WordPerfect, but it still works. And their bosses are saving money and making payroll on time just a bit more often than before. Can they remember that the different thing they are using now is called Linux? Some of them didn't even know they were running Windows before, so I doubt they'll remember Linux or OpenOffice.
Apparently, Walmart doesn't have to deal with "the fact" of AOL not running, or "massive returns". Walmart has been selling Lindows on Microtel, and possibly several other Linux distros for over 2 1/2 years now, possibly as much as 3 years. Lindows was the first, Mandrake followed a few months later, and iirc, one more distro came out on Microtel/Walmart at the same time as Mandrake. I know it was more than 2 1/2 years ago, because I picked a few up from TigerDirect at that time, which was the same time Walmart came out with them. If Walmart was dealing with AOL or massive delays 2 1/2 years ago, why would they be expanding their offerings?
The question you should be asking is, how is AOL going to deal with the fact that Linux has a greater than 60% growth rate in the server market and the growth rate is accelerating, has 30% of the server market compared to Microsoft ($5 billion vs. $1.5 billion last quarter, not counting free downloads), probably has a greater than 30% market share in small business due to small business economics and a slower upgrade cycle (and therefore an older hardware base that can't run newer Windows releases at the same speed), and where small businesses far outnumber large businesses? How do they deal with small business workers learning to use, and trust, Linux? According to IDC, OpenOffice already has between 25% and 35% of the small business market.
P
A little late in the game to be posting this, it'll probably never get noticed, but...
Does anyone else find it kind of ironic that they're selling computers running linux, yet their online music store requires Windows Media Player?
actually just as much a trick of statistics as of accounting. the way many things operate is to appear to be more profitable by manipulating the way the books are kept.
You were taking actions that implied something was out of the norm - walking out of the store with a bag without obviously having been by the register - a quick flash of the receipt and you would have been on your way (as I know by experience) as it would have been enough of a signal that all was right with the process.
The rudeness you encountered was a reflection of your own behavior - you are the one who delayed yourself!! By your own actions you added the implication of theft by refusal to even show a receipt or glance in the bag. Common courtesy on your part would be to give some indication that you had just bought it elsewhere in the store, instead of tucking a WalMart bag in your jeans before you walked in and taken a Fantastic Plastic discount.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"And let's be honest here: people were buying overseas-made clothes long before Wal-Mart came along." ....including the mom-and-pop downtown stores.
>Apparently, Walmart doesn't have to deal with "the fact" of AOL not running, or "massive returns". Walmart has been selling Lindows on Microtel, and possibly several other Linux distros for over 2 1/2 years now, possibly as much as 3 years.
In the stores or just on the web? My impression was that WalMart selling Linux PCs in their stores was a new thing.
Your comment on a Ghetto-classed solution stinks.
Since most folks in the world make less than $1,500 per year, the "ghetto" is the worlds largest market. Linux and the availability of inexpensive computers means that many may be able to take advantage of computers and computation. As the story of the great Indian mathematician Ramanunjan shows, giving such folks a chance can make a very big positive difference.
Lets not let our relative wealth blind us to only opine narrow, arrogant views, lest wee too find ourselves joining the ranks of the poor in the not too distant future.