Slashdot Mirror

• Bluesteel
  
• Blueheart
  
• AbsoluteE
  
• Cyrus
  
• Brushed-Metal - Default E theme.
  

• Bluesteel
  
• Blueheart
  
• AbsoluteE
  
• Cyrus
  
• Brushed-Metal - Default E theme.
  

For those who are interested : here is the theme for AfterStep that makes it look like OS X. No need to wait for E theme.

1. There's a difference between imitating GUI concepts (such as curved edges and other 'look and feel' factors) and blatantly copying a piece of copyright art, even if done using the 'look and copy' method rather than the 'cut and paste'. People going on about GUI similarities between WIN95 and MacOS should look at this GIF animation showing a screenshot off sawmill.themes.org, with elements of the original MacOS X screenshot differenced out. Black means identical pixels.

2. Being able to emulate MacOsX's precise look on Win32 and X machines will harm Apple's campaign to market Macs as a trendy alternative - which is why they spent so much time and money developing it. Of course, you are are perfectly entitled to develop a similar look using their ideas. You shouldn't be able to just copy it directly.

3. This isn't about the right to emulate. That was settled in Apple's case versus Microsoft. This is about the right to copy.

As an analogy, think of Leonardo Da Vinci's Mona Lisa. Originally a masterpiece. However, any half-decent artist can paint a very good copy of it. The true artist, though, takes the eyes, the smile and the use of color and paints his own masterpiece.

go to : http://sawmill.themes.org/ themes.phtml?themeid=947266463
I'm using it quite for a while ..
And ... to make thing really pretty use :
http://gtk.themes.org/themes.p html?themeid=947543904 the matching GTK theme ! YEAH !

go to : http://sawmill.themes.org/ themes.phtml?themeid=947266463
I'm using it quite for a while ..
And ... to make thing really pretty use :
http://gtk.themes.org/themes.p html?themeid=947543904 the matching GTK theme ! YEAH !

John Harper rocks. The man has a vision. Sawmill is E + more configurability - bloat - more bloat. The only things Sawmill doesn't do are the eye candy stuff (like Eppelets, pager, and iconbox) which are easily, and usually, supplied by something else (GNOME, KDE, etc.). It runs fast and pretty. And the man develops like a mad man. I can practically set my watch by his releases. I read about sawmill and its goals around version 0.11 or so. I was switching between it and E until about 0.14 and now I'm addicted. If you get sick of E being slow and bloated, or if you wish your WM had the graphical prowess of E and you can't afford the bloat, check out sawmill.
http://sawmill.sourceforge.net
http://sawmill.themes.org

There is only one truely cool case for a Mac:
http://wm.them es.org/php/pic.phtml?src=themes/wm/shots/934741297 .jpg
--------
"I already have all the latest software."

Wild animals are notoriously bad pets. Domesticated animals have been bred for hundreds of years to remove a lot of thier instincts and allow them to be more social around people. Of course if you are lucky one out of many wild animals would have this behavior, that's where breeding starts.

Of course some animals are not domesticated but tend to make good/decent pets such as: fish, most types of non-migratory birds, ferrets(this is debatable because many of them are neurotic furrballs). Snakes aren't too bad of a pet either, but most other reptiles (especially lizards) are a major venture to have as a pet. (except for frogs, although I've always found them to be tricky to feed right, but those are amphibians of course)

A penguin might be okay in a nice large "cage", but I don't think it would be something to put on a leash and walk around the park with, nor something to cuddle up with on the couch and watch some TV together. :P

Also realize that domesticated animals that have gone ferral do not make good pets either. Dingos for example are mostly the same as your pet dog, but they are horrible pets, almost as bad as a pet wolf. Of course you *could* start breeding dingos and after several generations have a decent and useful dog. (although that's a lot of work with little returns, dingos are probally better off without people)

So instead of a penguin for a pet, maybe get a stuffed Tux or a big poster on your wall, or a nice penguin Theme for your favorite window manager.

Maybee its just me but that stack of icons at the bottom of the screen reminds me alot of the panels in gnome or kde. And as far as anti alias support its coming along fine in the opensource world. And as far as high color icons and widgets that isn't an apple innovation, thats a tigert/mosfet/gtk/raster innovation. Not to mention all of the fine work of the creators and users of themes.org

If you want to see huge icons that go overboard, one word: WORKBENCH. I believe Workbench(for the amiga) let you have icons as big as you wanted, and its GUI was 10 times as uglier as X Windows.

Perhaps you have not seen any of the recent window manager. Check out some screen shots of themed enlightenment, at e.themes.org, or even a kde desktop at kde.themes.org. wm.themes.org is great place to make window maker look pretty.

To be anal, X in itself is not ugly, as it is just the framework. It is a window manager which can be ugly.. now, If you're talking about the details of X, then yes, it can be ugly :P

If you want to see huge icons that go overboard, one word: WORKBENCH. I believe Workbench(for the amiga) let you have icons as big as you wanted, and its GUI was 10 times as uglier as X Windows.

Perhaps you have not seen any of the recent window manager. Check out some screen shots of themed enlightenment, at e.themes.org, or even a kde desktop at kde.themes.org. wm.themes.org is great place to make window maker look pretty.

To be anal, X in itself is not ugly, as it is just the framework. It is a window manager which can be ugly.. now, If you're talking about the details of X, then yes, it can be ugly :P

If you want to see huge icons that go overboard, one word: WORKBENCH. I believe Workbench(for the amiga) let you have icons as big as you wanted, and its GUI was 10 times as uglier as X Windows.

Perhaps you have not seen any of the recent window manager. Check out some screen shots of themed enlightenment, at e.themes.org, or even a kde desktop at kde.themes.org. wm.themes.org is great place to make window maker look pretty.

To be anal, X in itself is not ugly, as it is just the framework. It is a window manager which can be ugly.. now, If you're talking about the details of X, then yes, it can be ugly :P

Like all of Linux, you takes what you like and you leaves what you don't. Even though I bought the Deluxe version, I didn't bother to load it over the freely distributed version because I didn't want the non-free OSS junk. I like the WP and bitstream fonts which I loaded from the Deluxe version.. haven't tried the Civ game yet though.

The only probs I have had with CLOS have been very easy to fix and so I am very happy with the install. The installer works great for me and in fact I was shocked that it actually installed X perfectly. LOVE the Update tool because it is a good crutch for apt-get when you are trying to find stuff. I ditched KWM and use Window Maker, and I must say it rocks when you have all of this stuff arranged just right.

This brings me to a prediction (wish list).. I bet that in the future (this year) the Linux desktop stuff will get so organized that ready-made themed (a.k.a. themes.org) desktops could be options on the install. I don't just mean the wallpaper, colors, icons -- but rather the arrangement and collection of little helper applications. Sorta like GNOME/KDE but with all of the cooler stuff with custom skins. All of the stuff that you and I take all day to add once you do a fresh install. But don't limit it to just the install stage of course, make them Debian packages or better yet just a list of the required packages and a GNUstep tree or something. Basically I just want a way to make my machine look and act like one of the ones on themes.org, but without the hours of configuration -- see what I mean. That would be a nifty desktop.

I have to nominate Ganymede, you can see it at gtk.themes.org and e.themes.org for the Enlightenment and GTK themes, respectively. The author's e-mail address is: chrisk@engr.uconn.edu.

Chris Hagar

I have to nominate Ganymede, you can see it at gtk.themes.org and e.themes.org for the Enlightenment and GTK themes, respectively. The author's e-mail address is: chrisk@engr.uconn.edu.

Chris Hagar

Regardless if multi-boot machine is booted into Linux, NT, or BeOS, I always have a wonderfully tile-able Propaganda image in the background.

Heretik's FinalE for E is clean, good looking and efficient - just what most of us want from a Window Manager theme. It gives E a nice slightly futuristic look similar to some themes in BlackBox.

You'll find the theme from http://e.themes.org/themes.phtml ?themeid=944708022

/Bergie

--

Heretik's FinalE for E is clean, good looking and efficient - just what most of us want from a Window Manager theme. It gives E a nice slightly futuristic look similar to some themes in BlackBox.

You'll find the theme from http://e.themes.org/themes.phtml ?themeid=944708022

/Bergie

--

After reading Jon Katz's review of The Talented Mr. Ripley I could not help but laugh. Maybe it was because the way the article was introduced was a complete joke, (As made clear in earlier comments) or maybe is was because I had already read a review of the film which said quite the opposite, at least concerning the accuracy of the film adaptation and the need to keep the plot secret. (Come on, the preview makes most of it pretty clear) For those who want a good review of the film, read Charles Taylor's review at Salon.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

An article on this subject at EE Times mentions Slashdot and the debate over this hearing. The article also has some good links to the DVD CCA's arguments. You can read the article here
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

For a specialized wearable computer or robot, one that executes a limited set of commands, voice recognition is more beneficial as it does not require physical contact with the device. Both have their places, but for using Linux on a PDA, handwriting is more useful.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

It seems every X11 window managers' design heavily incorporates the mouse as a necessary tool for window management. I even get this impression from reading snippets of POSIX specs. Here's a (very botched) paraphrase, or at least, the impression I got when learning about POSIX window manager recommendations:

"The window manager should not intercept any key bindings... they should all be passed to the application and the mouse should be used for windowing."

Anyway, I have, since I first booted linux and fired up X, always thought this was STUPID. The one thing that I see Windows having over Mac OS or linux window managers was the common, global key-mapping that comes from a tidbit of smart thinking at one point in the design (or stealing somebody elses' idea) and then the subsequent forcing of all the applications that run within your operating environment to adopt "similar" keybindings and look-and-feels.

I took key bindings for granted in Windows. Say, in the middle of anything else, I suddenly had the urge for some Slashdot in a maximized explorer window.

Ctrl-Esc R iexplore [enter] [F4] www.slashdot.org [enter] Alt-[SPACE] x Done. Or maybe size it a bit and move it some. Alt-[SPACE] S (arrow keys) [Enter]. And the cordless mouse is still stuck somewhere in the couch cushions with dead batteries.

Before I figured out that there were window managers that supported something other than focus-follows-mouse, I almost developed tennis elbow, slapping that rat around to keep my focus where i wanted it, and the windows raised where I wanted them. very frustrating.

I moved to BlackBox, because it was nice and speedy. But I still had no pop-up root menu on the keyboard. (I kept telling myself I'd learn C++ and contribute a patch)

later I moved to Windowmaker, and found out why people swear by that. Its neat, theme-able, and nicely configurable. But something about it still irked me. Maybe I preferred the simplicity of BB.

three days ago, i slapped Sawmill on my machine and I think I've found a new love. It's all configurable in the same way emacs and scwm are, very modular, and it looks all pretty, very theme-able too. Not too bad in terms of speed, either. It's not blackbox (I loved BB's responsiveness) but it works well, and you can BIND stuff. With a wussy GUI configuration editor, even! If you want. wow.

So now i have a nice pretty desktop, that plays nice with gnome (even though I don't use gnome much), yet is not quite as hungry as Enlightenment or KDE, and supports lispy customizations (I don't know it well enough to code yet, but i can see the ability of the program to expand). I've got alt-space mapped to the window controls, ctrl-esc mapped to a popup app list, and f12 mapped to the root menu. So now i can, once again, sit on the couch across the room with the cordless 'board and have nearly-full control over my work environment. All I have to do is figure out how to configure it to be able to size the windows with the keys. That and implement selection, copy, and paste using shift and arrow keys. :-P

Maybe the whole system is flawed and maybe Berlin will work more to my liking. Man, i wish i already knew how to code. Then i'd just go FIX all this stuff, instead of bitching about it, eh? ;) (Helping berlin or any other OSS project to completion would be hella cool too.)

Good luck, jacobian, in your search for the "right" configuration.

It seems every X11 window managers' design heavily incorporates the mouse as a necessary tool for window management. I even get this impression from reading snippets of POSIX specs. Here's a (very botched) paraphrase, or at least, the impression I got when learning about POSIX window manager recommendations:

"The window manager should not intercept any key bindings... they should all be passed to the application and the mouse should be used for windowing."

Anyway, I have, since I first booted linux and fired up X, always thought this was STUPID. The one thing that I see Windows having over Mac OS or linux window managers was the common, global key-mapping that comes from a tidbit of smart thinking at one point in the design (or stealing somebody elses' idea) and then the subsequent forcing of all the applications that run within your operating environment to adopt "similar" keybindings and look-and-feels.

I took key bindings for granted in Windows. Say, in the middle of anything else, I suddenly had the urge for some Slashdot in a maximized explorer window.

Ctrl-Esc R iexplore [enter] [F4] www.slashdot.org [enter] Alt-[SPACE] x Done. Or maybe size it a bit and move it some. Alt-[SPACE] S (arrow keys) [Enter]. And the cordless mouse is still stuck somewhere in the couch cushions with dead batteries.

Before I figured out that there were window managers that supported something other than focus-follows-mouse, I almost developed tennis elbow, slapping that rat around to keep my focus where i wanted it, and the windows raised where I wanted them. very frustrating.

I moved to BlackBox, because it was nice and speedy. But I still had no pop-up root menu on the keyboard. (I kept telling myself I'd learn C++ and contribute a patch)

later I moved to Windowmaker, and found out why people swear by that. Its neat, theme-able, and nicely configurable. But something about it still irked me. Maybe I preferred the simplicity of BB.

three days ago, i slapped Sawmill on my machine and I think I've found a new love. It's all configurable in the same way emacs and scwm are, very modular, and it looks all pretty, very theme-able too. Not too bad in terms of speed, either. It's not blackbox (I loved BB's responsiveness) but it works well, and you can BIND stuff. With a wussy GUI configuration editor, even! If you want. wow.

So now i have a nice pretty desktop, that plays nice with gnome (even though I don't use gnome much), yet is not quite as hungry as Enlightenment or KDE, and supports lispy customizations (I don't know it well enough to code yet, but i can see the ability of the program to expand). I've got alt-space mapped to the window controls, ctrl-esc mapped to a popup app list, and f12 mapped to the root menu. So now i can, once again, sit on the couch across the room with the cordless 'board and have nearly-full control over my work environment. All I have to do is figure out how to configure it to be able to size the windows with the keys. That and implement selection, copy, and paste using shift and arrow keys. :-P

Maybe the whole system is flawed and maybe Berlin will work more to my liking. Man, i wish i already knew how to code. Then i'd just go FIX all this stuff, instead of bitching about it, eh? ;) (Helping berlin or any other OSS project to completion would be hella cool too.)

Good luck, jacobian, in your search for the "right" configuration.

You are obviously a true *nix master.... one who edits with VI and uses the keyboard for everything. So why use KDE? If you need a window manager, if you need to run X programs... try blackbox! Sorry, I don't have a URL handy, but try blackbox.themes.org. Blackbox is small, minimalistic, and still nice-looking. Not sure about Minimize vs. Iconify... it shows iconified tasks in a menu rather than on the desktop. I usually just double-click the title bar to roll it up and get it out of the way. KDE is designed for two types of people: Windows users who are trying to (slowly) learn Linux (not that KDE helps by isolating them from the shell), and for Linux users who don't like the CLI. I like themes and pretty pictures too, but I can get all the pictures I want by running an Eterm on Blackbox. Much more system-resource friendly. --- I'm not anonymous. I'm me!

One of the few things I found impressive about Win98SE was the cool music that played when I first booted it after installing it. Also, games like Diablo, Rainbow Six, and Starcraft (just to name few) use music to enhance your experience.

My point is that there is a lot of room for music in the "open source experience." Alot of musicians could gain exposure if their music was distributed with open source software. The music could be part of the installation program, the documentation, or even the app itself.

There is a lot of effort made to make open source software visually appealing (see e.themes.org.) But there is another sense to be tapped.

Adding music may seem like useless overhead, but is it really if it adds another dimension to the experience of using your software? Bandwidth will continue to open up and after a while adding a couple tunes and musical cues to your tarball/rpm won't make a significant difference.

If you find an unsigned band you like on mp3.com, e-mail them, see if they want to be involved in your project. Maybe you can work something out. Or, if you're a musician, find an open source project that interests you and offer to work with them. If the project takes off, then everyone benefits. If not, nothing really has been lost.

Just a thought...

numb

Don't feel bad. I'm only 19 and I also don't understand any of this nonsense. Case in point: I downloaded a theme. The actual background in the download has a bunch of C code (perhaps an exploit of some sort?) with the rendered letters "31337" in the foreground.
This troubled me. What was the significance of this number? There must be some meaning behind this number if someone was going to take the time to render it so nicely. Unfortunately, the only interesting thing I was able to find about 31337 is that it is a prime number, not a fibonacci or a marconi or anything else. I was rather disappointed.
Later, someone told me the significance of my desktop background. That wasn't exactly the image I was trying to portray.

You could, of course, use the GUI theme creator to create your own KDE theme...

George Russell (russell@kde.org)

You can see it Here. But the pic in the actual tarball looks better. Sorry for drooling.

Microsoft's goal has to be to increase WinCE's market share. Handheld computing profits are not in the OS, but in the hardware and the applications. The more widespread WinCE is, the more M$ can make on CE Office products. The only way CE is going to beat PalmOS and Linux in the embedded market is to open source and offer additional benefits (i.e. multi-platform support, increased hardware support, more extendable OS, etc.) Linux is not ready for the palm computing world, probably will not be for awhile. If Microsoft can enhance WinCE now by allowing more people to develop for the platform, they can compete with PalmOS. Will this happen? I don't know.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

Personally, I believe that this is what makes our country great. Jon Katz may like to believe that he is full of great insights, but the truth is a great deal of what he is talking about is not censorship. (Art in NY, see one of the other posts for a good explanation) It is not censorship if I do not let you talk about a topic in media which I fund, it is censorship when I don't let you say it in media that you fund. This is the key difference, subtle though it may be. If Princeton were to fire Singer, that would not be censorship, just good sense. They need money more than they need his reputation and "expertise". If Princeton starts suing me because I am talking about the topic and the government allows it, that is censorship.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

The principles of The Mythical Man-Month also apply to open source, however. Obviously as you add people to an open source project, the per person productivity decreases. (Which is much of what Brooks says in MMM) The reason open source projects are successful are good organizational structures, which Brooks emphasized.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

It seems a shame that most people in the industry have not read it and that most managers have little or no idea of how managing a software project differs from general management.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

The worst part of computer science education below college is that the teachers do not know how to program at all. I don't know how to remedy this, I wish I did. Even an independent study in computer science would be better than what is offered now.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

I have a possible solution, however. If these same kids had the opportunity to take computer science classes early on, they could find the challenge they needed in producing good software. Computer science education in high schools is terrible; it should be offered at multiple levels and even begun in middle school. With the infusion of technology into the workplace, schools would be able to justify the change as useful. Hopefully someone will catch on that this would be a good thing, though with the current status of education, who knows.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

As opposed to the naysayers who have already posted, I think that this work is very useful and difficult. As far as I can tell, they developed a system that, knowing the physical properties of legos, found a way to span a defined gap with no external support other than the initial lego. On the surface, this looks silly, but by implementing an "intelligent" algorithm to do a fairly complicated task is a good thing in my book. Though this is one of many small steps, it will help to further the progress of intelligent machines.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

And the name of the release is Cartman
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

Secondly, your wish for a parallel distro with the newest of everything has been around for quite awhile. It is called rawhide, and it is the current status of Redhat's development. If all you want are updates, Redhat has those too, and they come out pretty frequently. Though the boxed sets may not offer the stuff that came out last week, the updates do. In 6.1, getting updates is even easier. Seems they have a nifty gui update tool, and if you buy a boxed set and register, you get access to a separate (and probably faster) ftp site for updates.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

As for this release just being an update, that if for the most part true. The main focus of this release was the introduction of the graphical installer. This is and excellent installer, easier than previous Redhat installs and far easier than other Linux distros and Windows installers. (My roommate did extensive testing of it in lorax) Kudos to Matt Wilson for his excellent work.

As for the announcement of this on /. before it was officially released by Redhat, I think a huge mistake was made. /. often warns that downloads may be rocky for awhile when it reports on a new distro release or a new kernel, but part of the reason that this is true is that the mirrors don't have time to get it before /. users start pounding it. I think many of us dislike the "first post" mentality that clouds useful discussion on /. and we should be fed up with /. following the same model for news when doing so is inappropriate.
--
Gregory J. Barlow
fight bloat. use blackbox.

I don't feel that an independent linux distro aimed at women would serve the beginning female linux users very well. What kind of things would you put in such a distro? Would Themes.org make a pink background with flowers for icons? What would happen is a company would create a female-distro and pack it full of chauvinist innuendos (like the pink X-Theme). What next a linux distro for african-americans? On the internet everyone is sexless (not the act! the state), raceless, and ageless. Creating something like a female distro would destroy what people like LinuxChix are trying to do. I just think it is bad Karma

yes you can rearrange things automatically, it supports scripting for window manipulation trough IPC messages. There's a shell, eesh which accepts command like iconify, moving, resizing, provide informations about windows and so on... you can then do your scripts in whatever languages that please you (there are examples in perl in the latest (cvs) release) (and it has an autoarrange feature)

You can also makes it remember where you place your applications windows (location, size, desktop)

I don't think more desktops will make you're window manager crawl, the question here is more about memory than cpu speed. (and I think I saw a screenshot at e.themes.org of a screen with 64 desktops :)

E is useable on a lot of cpu, I used it fairly well on a p100 with an old cirrus (5434) card. :)

I don't know about the MDI fonctionnalities of the windows's applications but all this sounds good to me :)

IceWM, on the other hand, had been Gnome-compliant for a long time and supports KDE too.

MarkJ

"I want to use software that doesn't suck." - ESR
"All software that isn't free sucks." - RMS

I think this is true. The sites I usually frequent on a daily basis are:

Slashdot has the Nerd news, of course...
Linux.com has great Linux news, tuning tips, articles and other stuff...
Themes.org has great themes for all the Window Managers, gtk etc...
Freshmeat just rocks when it comes to the latest in applications.

If I go to any other site, it's usually linked off of one of those. *grin*

Excuse me, but since when does a programming language make code inherently object oriented or procedural? There is nothing preventing any decent programming language, including C, from being used for object oriented design.

For instance, note that GTK+ is a truly object oriented toolkit. It's written in C because C++ is truly horrible and would prevent it from having lots of bindings it can have with C. The bloated class system of C++ is simply unnecessary for anything.

GTK+ is wonderful. It provides a fast, flexible, pretty (see GTK+ themes), and very portable. Don't try to explain that something cannot be object oriented because of the language it's written in. Think about it: any language will be used as machine code. Machine code can be anything you want, object oriented or procedural, depending on how it's written. It does not depend on C++ or any other "object oriented" language.

It's just that you never hear about these Mac-like windowmanagers in the press because they're all getting excited about a Windows-like desktop system. But they're out there.
-----

I have to agree that I don't like wm.themes.org at all. The old one had far more themes (more than 1000) on plenty of topics. There will be plenty of annoyed theme builders out there (including me, who had a few on there).

Perhaps they will slowly bring the other themes back on line... and then get rid of that confusing search system - and those useless 'what is on my desktop today' screenshots.

www.linuxberg.com has a theme archive almost as good as it used to be (but it has no preview thumbnails). I think the soul of wm.themes.org has been lost. Maybe from the ashes something better will arise... but I wouldn't place money on it.

Mike

Its not the SEC stuff that bothers me. What bothers me, is the fact that E-Trade lied. I spoke with no less than three seperate operators on E-Trade's Red Hat IPO Hotline the very day I recieved my letter, and asked all three the same set of questions just to be sure I knew what I was getting into. One of those questions was, "You realize, the vast majority of us are college students, about 18-24 years old, with very little money, and very little investment experience. Is this going to be a factor when it comes to our eligibility?" ..All three E*Trade operators said no, that the Eligibility Profile would have "no bearing at all" on our ability to at least participate.

That turned out to be a lie.

I've had an account with E-Trade since January -- I had damn near $7,000 in my account at the time I filled out the Eligibility Profile.. Hell, i've even traded on IPO stocks in the past!..My entire damn portfolio is always been made up of tech-sector/internet stocks. But yet, I failed E*Trade's eligibility profile. Now, it seems, the damn company has given people the green light for its customers to *lie* on the eligibility profile in order to get in. Fsck that, lying makes you just as bad as the assholes who require you to do so in the first place. I reserve the use of my middle finger for situations like these. I'd be real curious to hear from someone who did get past the eligibility profile without lying. I'd bet anyone five bucks to a donut that getting in without lying is impossible.

Silly me. I should have started trading high-tech stocks when I was four years old, and made my first million by age six.

Bowie
PROPAGANDA
Bowie J. Poag

Now who's gonna clean up the mess? :)

Bowie
PROPAGANDA

Right on.

Bowie
PROPAGANDA