Slashdot Mirror

I was under the impression TiVos like my Sat-T60 are linux boxes...

It's about time they did this...

I've had my replaytv for almost 3 years and I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to instant-replay rewind the radio to hear something again. I doubt this'll be useful for prerecording shows (due to car battery drain of running all the time) but the live radio pause/rewind/ff features are mandatory. Plus, with only those features, there won't need to be a monthly fee, like Tivo Basic.

OK, probably nobody will ever see this as the thread is scrolled off the front page, but I looked all over the TiVo web site and can't find anything that say you must subscribe to the service.

The service agreement, which is available in the middle of this page allows you to cancel the service at any time for any reason. After which, you just lose the service (watchlist, season passes, etc.).

I don't have TiVo service now, in fact if you read the post I linked to above in this thread, TiVo themselves suggested I cancel! My series 2 works just fine, in timed recording mode.

The Software Release 4.0 due out soon (which is immediate if you also purchase Home Media Option), will increase the support and allow setup of a wifi 802.11b USB connector (which is what I'm waiting for!!!)

If a vendor implements DRM in a Linux kernel so that the kernel only allows signed executables to run, that's relatively easy to work around.

What is scarier is what TiVo did on their Series 2 machines, which is similar to how Microsoft locked down the XBox. The TiVo will only boot if the kernel and startup scripts match a signature in its ROM. In effect, you can't compile your own kernel to run on the TiVo or change the startup scripts, even though TiVo publishes its kernel source code.

The TiVo was harder to crack, but eventually someone figured it out.

It is entirely possible to violate the spirit of the GPL using DRM.

It's cell phones only at my house. I know I can use a wireless USB adapter with a series 2 TiVO, but...

the fine print says I'll still need a phone line to do the initial setup call.

Anyone know if I can use the USB network adapter and the right dialing prefix (,#401 I think) even for the initial setup? I'll probably build my own MythTV box if I can't get by without a phone line. The geek factor is appealing, too, but with non-techies in the house having to use the PVR too, it'd be nice to have something that Just Works.

> My question for is "What's worked best for you?"

I couldn't be happier with my solution.

• The poster could as well have said "I won't bother to try it until it can play MP3's, Ogg Vorbis, DivX's and VCD's".

Well it can play MP3s with the newly released Home Media Option, which includes remote-scheduling with a web browser, image slideshows, and mp3 streaming off of your desktop (multiple OS clients coming soon).

i don't remember anything... my friend was getting a tivo for his HDTV, and was see-sawing between getting the $1000 tivo or the $500 one and adding on an HDTV decoder later in a sepearte unit.

i did a quick google and found these links:

link 1

link 2

previous slashdot story

TiVo has already developed a platform for HDTV recording.

For that matter, they've also announced a partnership with Toshiba to produce a TiVo with DVD output (okay, it's only DVD-RAM in this one, but DVD(+/-)RW is a logical extension).

TiVo has already developed a platform for HDTV recording.

For that matter, they've also announced a partnership with Toshiba to produce a TiVo with DVD output (okay, it's only DVD-RAM in this one, but DVD(+/-)RW is a logical extension).

How many add-ons does it have to have? Or how many more add-ons does it have to have? There's a TON out there already, from TiVo and from the hacking community.

mp3 and ogg decoding?

There's an addon available (for cost) that does mp3, but not ogg.

programmable from any computer?

The same addon as the mp3 ability does that, too. Or you can use the free, community-provided tool, that's been around for awhile.

hackable?

There is plenty of that going on .

How about a pop3 client? Or perhaps AIM on your TiVo? What about caller id? Plenty of other stuff, too.

Personally, I'm glad that they don't slap a recordable DVD drive in there. That would just jack the cost of the hardware. If it is that important, just throw the TiVo on your network and hit google for tivo video extraction. With the tools available, it is fairly trivial to extract the MPEG streams to your PC and record them to DVD, plus you get the benefit of using whatever video editing software you want (to do things like cut the commercials, etc), and whatever DVD recording software you like. If the functionality were on the TiVo, I'd doubt that you'd get much more than save to DVD, with no editing possible.

How many add-ons does it have to have? Or how many more add-ons does it have to have? There's a TON out there already, from TiVo and from the hacking community.

mp3 and ogg decoding?

There's an addon available (for cost) that does mp3, but not ogg.

programmable from any computer?

The same addon as the mp3 ability does that, too. Or you can use the free, community-provided tool, that's been around for awhile.

hackable?

There is plenty of that going on .

How about a pop3 client? Or perhaps AIM on your TiVo? What about caller id? Plenty of other stuff, too.

Personally, I'm glad that they don't slap a recordable DVD drive in there. That would just jack the cost of the hardware. If it is that important, just throw the TiVo on your network and hit google for tivo video extraction. With the tools available, it is fairly trivial to extract the MPEG streams to your PC and record them to DVD, plus you get the benefit of using whatever video editing software you want (to do things like cut the commercials, etc), and whatever DVD recording software you like. If the functionality were on the TiVo, I'd doubt that you'd get much more than save to DVD, with no editing possible.

After a little googling I turned up this looks like they do provide their mod's to the public.

behold, the solution:

Tivo Media Option

and you don't have to set up any partitions, or get all that shit working together, or wait 5 minutes for it to boot up, or install samba, or patch anything, or compile anything, or spend hours trolling the newsgroups to make mplayer work when all you want to do is watch this week's Sopranos...

http://customersupport.tivo.com/tivoknowbase/root/ public/tv451619.htm?

HD support from TiVo is coming RSN... I think I heard rumors on the community forums about HD support by year end, but who knows if that's accurate? (And they never said which year ending....)

Dave

The long-awaited TiVo HDTV is on it's way.

You can view the press release here:
TiVo HDTV DVR press release

I'd also recommend checking out the various forums at the TiVo Community Forums, where discussion about the HDTV models has been underway. There are some very knowledgeable folks there.

Thanks for correcting me. You're right, I saw that it was a $99 option, and that you needed 1 per Tivo. This link clarifies it, and the pricing is as you say:

http://www.tivo.com/4.9.1.asp#3

I'm glad to see that it's a little better than I thought... but I still think it's a bit much that they want to charge for the hardware AND the service AND new features that I think belong there in the first place... Sure, they can charge for whatever they like, I'm just saying it makes them a lot less attractive when other options are available.

1. Viewing files from your home computer (photos, music) requires Windows or a Mac. Their "TiVo Desktop" software is not (yet) available for linux as far as I can tell.

Maybe not the Tivo Desktop, but they have released developer resources on writing a Music and Photos Server including a reference Apache module with instructions on how to use it (go here). The protocol is spelled out very well and undoubtedly there will be many easy to use apps out in the next few weeks for people who don't know how to/want to set up their own apache server for it.

http://www.tivo.com/4.9.asp

And for which option do you need two computers or more?? Horsesh*t.

Argh. What did I expect. Accuracy in a /. story?

Tivo has released Developer Resources including an API for creating your own TiVoServer as well as an Apache module to get you started. For a company that is frequently trashed in this forum, they seem to be throwing the /. crowd a rather large peace pipe. - Craig

You can turn Multi-Room Viewing off on any DVR. You decide which DVRs can share programming. Television programming is not under TiVo's control. Programming providers may restrict or limit the transfer of particular programs. TiVo does not guarantee access to or transfer of any particular program.

They're asking us to pay $100 per unit to let the content providers decide what shows we can transfer? I like how they blame "programming providers" for crippling their software.

My TiVo is a great toy, but it's looking like it's time for this company to die. First they fire RB, and now they snuggle up to the content industry? Screw them, it's time to cancel my subscription and start hacking my box. They had a chance to earn their subscription fee from me, but they blew it when they decided that they were going to give Hollywood control over my own equipment.

When I looked at this page, the music player requires the Tivo desktop software, which you can only use on a PC or Mac. It might work with wine, but the interface doesn't look very intuitive. I will wait till the reviews come out before forking over $99 for functionality I thought was going to be included for free at a later date with my series 2 purchase and lifetime subscription.

If you RTFA you'll have the answer to your own question.

Actually, odds are, the Sony unit is a Tivo as well.

Sony already makes a DVR built with Tivo technology. I imagine they will still use Tivo technology for a US release of the new product.

Adding a DVD burner is definitely a cool addition.

The price they offer on the main website is $100 more then whats listed on the insiders deal page. I don't think this page is supposed to be available to the general public, so I think as soon as they notice a whole bunch of people buying 80 hour Tivo's for $250, instead of the $350 they should be going for, they are going to take the page down.

I ordered one of 'em via the website last week, which is supposed to arrive tomorrow, and I got a local circuit city to match the special website price, plus 10% of the difference, so I got my 2nd one for $240 ($290 with a $50 mail-in rebate). The Tivo.com website sends it with free shipping and you can avoid the sales tax, so that's the better deal. But you get instant gratification from Circuit City.

Well, I've got an 'AI system' which records TV shows for me - even suggests new shows it thinks I may like, based on what I've recorded before. It's called TiVo. And I've got an 'AI system' which reminds me about important dates. It's called a web calendar. Oh, and apart from a very small number of bills, I pay everything except for my credit card bill using Direct Debit. Okay, it's not AI, but they do get paid automatically, and I track them (and pay my credit card bill) online...

I think Phillips will be quite pleased with this news. I don't see the huge demand for the Streamium at this point. What a better way to boost sales for a marginal seller. Look what Hack-ability has done for another of their Products, Tivo. I Know I Wouldn't have bought one if I knew I couldn't hack at it.

I'm a happy DirecTV subscriber. I don't yet have HD-DirecTV at home, mostly because I am unwilling to give up my TiVo. Now, if someone builds a box which integrates TiVo service, DirecTV standard and HD tuner, and a local OTA HD tuner, I'll buy it.

Tivo issued a press release last month saying that DirecTivo HDTV boxes will be available "by year end." (I'm pretty sure I read about this here on /.)

You should get a TiVo. I TiVo'd the game and will watch it tomorrow, fast forwarding through the foolball and watching the commercials.

Honestly, is there any poor soul out there who codes new projects in Tcl?

Yeah... there's this little project called TiVo. Maybe you've heard of it. Also, quite a few of the hacks (the web interface to the TiVo that I use, for example) are written in Tcl.

I never really liked the language myself. I'm a Python fan. But some people (and companies) are still using it.

Then you'll be happy to get this news, also from the CES front.

As a longtime ReplayTV owner (Replay 2004 and Showstopper), I hope that SonicBlue gets their HD-capable device out alongside TiVo or I might have to move to that proverbial dark side...either that or finally set up a home theater PC with an HDTV card in it that will timeshift that programming for me (unfortunately, that doesn't help with satellite HD).

Last CES they promised a developer program which suddenly disappeared a few weeks after -- Can you say marketing gimmick?

Toshiba DVD-R + Tivo box

Remote scheduling, intra-tivo video sharing, and MP3/JPG display on Series2 Boxes

Toshiba DVD-R + Tivo box

Remote scheduling, intra-tivo video sharing, and MP3/JPG display on Series2 Boxes

At CES TiVo announced their Media Center option. For the same price as the HP box you can get a TiVo that does pretty much the same stuff. You just have to wait until April. Here's the breakdown on costs:

$149 TiVo 40hr or 60hr refurb.
$ 25 USB Ethernet adapter
$ 99 TiVo home networking option

Some very nice features are in this new software, including integration with Apple's Rendezvous protocol (aka Zeroconf) to find all your iTunes mp3s.

• TiVo Unveils New DVR Design That Supports HDTV
• DIRECTV AND TiVo to Introduce New High-Definition
• Toshiba Creates a New DVD Domain With TiVo
• TiVo's New Home Media Option(TM) Transforms DVR Into Entertainment Center, Bringing Control and Simplicity to Home Networking

Basically for $99 one can order a TiVo SW upgrade (secured with public/private keys) to allow your TiVo to stream mp3s, jpegs (incl. ones from Corbis), be remotely administered from a personal account on TiVo's website, and get some extra promo material. One can then get the upgrade for addt'l TiVos in the household at half-price and be able to stream shows between TiVos on the same account.

All of this due in April, software for enabling the local mp3 & jpeg streaming to be available then, you can sign up to be notified when avaliable. Presumably these apps and the TiVos will use Rendezvous to find eachother.

So: Extra cost paid upfront, secured software, able to share but only with other extra-package TiVos on the same account and not with the general 'net population. Oh yeah, and LinkSys is the preferred networking hw vendor.

• TiVo Unveils New DVR Design That Supports HDTV
• DIRECTV AND TiVo to Introduce New High-Definition
• Toshiba Creates a New DVD Domain With TiVo
• TiVo's New Home Media Option(TM) Transforms DVR Into Entertainment Center, Bringing Control and Simplicity to Home Networking

Basically for $99 one can order a TiVo SW upgrade (secured with public/private keys) to allow your TiVo to stream mp3s, jpegs (incl. ones from Corbis), be remotely administered from a personal account on TiVo's website, and get some extra promo material. One can then get the upgrade for addt'l TiVos in the household at half-price and be able to stream shows between TiVos on the same account.

All of this due in April, software for enabling the local mp3 & jpeg streaming to be available then, you can sign up to be notified when avaliable. Presumably these apps and the TiVos will use Rendezvous to find eachother.

So: Extra cost paid upfront, secured software, able to share but only with other extra-package TiVos on the same account and not with the general 'net population. Oh yeah, and LinkSys is the preferred networking hw vendor.

• TiVo Unveils New DVR Design That Supports HDTV
• DIRECTV AND TiVo to Introduce New High-Definition
• Toshiba Creates a New DVD Domain With TiVo
• TiVo's New Home Media Option(TM) Transforms DVR Into Entertainment Center, Bringing Control and Simplicity to Home Networking

Basically for $99 one can order a TiVo SW upgrade (secured with public/private keys) to allow your TiVo to stream mp3s, jpegs (incl. ones from Corbis), be remotely administered from a personal account on TiVo's website, and get some extra promo material. One can then get the upgrade for addt'l TiVos in the household at half-price and be able to stream shows between TiVos on the same account.

All of this due in April, software for enabling the local mp3 & jpeg streaming to be available then, you can sign up to be notified when avaliable. Presumably these apps and the TiVos will use Rendezvous to find eachother.

So: Extra cost paid upfront, secured software, able to share but only with other extra-package TiVos on the same account and not with the general 'net population. Oh yeah, and LinkSys is the preferred networking hw vendor.

• TiVo Unveils New DVR Design That Supports HDTV
• DIRECTV AND TiVo to Introduce New High-Definition
• Toshiba Creates a New DVD Domain With TiVo
• TiVo's New Home Media Option(TM) Transforms DVR Into Entertainment Center, Bringing Control and Simplicity to Home Networking

Basically for $99 one can order a TiVo SW upgrade (secured with public/private keys) to allow your TiVo to stream mp3s, jpegs (incl. ones from Corbis), be remotely administered from a personal account on TiVo's website, and get some extra promo material. One can then get the upgrade for addt'l TiVos in the household at half-price and be able to stream shows between TiVos on the same account.

All of this due in April, software for enabling the local mp3 & jpeg streaming to be available then, you can sign up to be notified when avaliable. Presumably these apps and the TiVos will use Rendezvous to find eachother.

So: Extra cost paid upfront, secured software, able to share but only with other extra-package TiVos on the same account and not with the general 'net population. Oh yeah, and LinkSys is the preferred networking hw vendor.

But I would still want it to be wireless.

I noticed this press release a few days ago, as well. Been doing some research since then.

You'll need a TiVo Series 2 to make this work. No word on whether 3rd party TiVo 2s will be supported (like the Sony unit).

Most everything below is an educated guess, so take with a grain of salt.

I'm assuming after looking at the unit's connectivity that you'll need to get a TiVo USB->Ethernet adapter. No word as to whether other parties' USB->Ethernet or USB->802.11x adapters will work as of yet.

I've already got a Linksys WET11 hooked up to my Playstation 2 network adapter, bridging to my wireless LAN (iMac with connection sharing on via Airport card), so adding a cheap hub at my receiver isn't a big deal on my end.

If you go this route, you'll need a Wintel box, or at the very least Virtual PC to properly configure the bridge (for the first time -- its http admin works on the Mac after initial setup) -- even though Linksys claims otherwise. Also, if you turn on encryption, keep in mind that you need to set up the Mac side to use the long-ass hex version of the password you pick (ie $AA2E43323B2300000) or the WET11 won't be able to get on. At the very least, lock your access point down to specific hardware addresses.

As far as bandwidth concerns -- let's see -- MP3s ripped at 192k -- vs the 11 megabit bandwidth on 802.11b. I'm not seeing a problem here. Hell, a direct uncompressed dump to AIFF or WAV from a CD will only come in at 150k/second (ie 1x CD-ROM). That's 1.5 megabits of bandwidth -- for uncompressed audio.

Back to the info -- this functionality seems to be part of a forthcoming firware upgrade for the series 2 models (which are currently shipping and on sale -- $199 for a 40 meg unit, $399 for an 80 with rebate).

It also seems that they're hinting that LAN functionality is going to be part of a new 'tiered' pricing structure -- the veiled hint being "part of our premium service".

At any rate, I'm in on this the moment it's available. I bought a Sony 200-CD jukebox about 5 years ago, and it's skipping horribly now and cleaning hasn't helped. I'm giddy at the thought of dropping it and just getting a 120-gig drive to take its place.

Here's to hoping that TiVo's media center (or whatever they call it) UI is decent, and it supports iTunes playlists and iTunes browsing by artist, album and genre.

I'd pay an extra $5 or so a month for that.

One last hint:

When ripping to iTunes, make sure your prefs are set to add track numbers to the filenames, otherwise your albums will play back in alpha order.

--dr00gy

This is Tivo's new service agreement in PDF, and here is Google's copy of Tivo's service agreement converted to HTML.

Unfortunately I'm unable to dig up the agreement I originally signed on for to comparision, but the following are changes from the previous agreement:

2. The TiVo Service. The basic TiVo service consists of program guide information and the following features: ... Season Pass... WishList... Smart Recording... TiVo Suggestions... Parental Controls.

This is fairly subtle, but the previous agreement basically just said that service consisted of program guide information. Nothing else. The other features were implicitly part of the unit you purchased. Sure, the features weren't terribly useful without guide information, but if you could find another way to provide guide data those feature would work. Now they're claiming that if you fail to pay you have no rights at all these features which are entirely managed within the unit.

3. Changes to Your TiVo Service. TiVo may, at its discretion and from time to time change, add or remove features and functionality of the TiVo Service or the TiVo DVR (when the TiVo DVR access TiVo's servers) without notice. If you are dissatisfied with any such changes to the TiVo Service, you may immediately cancel your subscription as provided in section 13 ("Termination of Service").

Given the helpful definitions of features in the previous section, TiVo is clearly reserving the right to remove Season Passes, WishList, Smart Recording, TiVo Suggestions, Parental Controls and other functionality. Sure, it seems unlikely that they'll take such features away, but why are they asking for the right to? Those are specifically the features they advertised the Tivo as having, and the reason I bought mine.

But I can terminate the service if I don't like it? Given the new changes, my Tivo effectively becomes a giant paperweight. And (checking Section 13), my lifetime subscription that I paid for before this change will not be refunded in any way, so I'm especially S.O.L..

10. Using the TiVo Service. ... you agree not to tamper with or otherwise modify the TiVo DVR.

The rest of the section is pretty reasonable, but this little clause is unreasonable. I purchased my Tivo specifically because they were very open and had a "You void your warrantee, and we won't support you, but feel free to hack on your Tivo" policy. I wanted to support that behavior. This effectively reverses the decision. No more hard drive expansion hacks. To heck with that.

11. Advertising and Promotions. ... In order to send such content, you agree that Tivo may tune your Tivo DVR to a particular channel at a particular time.

In practice it looks like they only use this to record the silly promos I see on my main menu. That I don't mind. What I do mind is that this implies that they can preempt my normal recording to record their ads. That I object to. I doubt they ever will preempt my programming, but why not state as much in the policy?

12. Definition of Product Lifetime Subscription. ... Of course, hardware products don't last forever and their lifespan will vary.

When I purchased a lifetime subscription, I understood that the lifetime in question was for the unit, not me. I figured it just meant that if the system failed I'd need to pay to get it repaired. This working left me fearing that they may claim that once a Tivo experiences any failure that they can claim that its lifetime is over and cancel the service. Since my Tivo actually experienced a modem failure nine months into its life, this seems like a real risk to me. (On a related note, it looks like Tivo modems are fragile, thus products like this one. Get your Tivo on a phone line surge supressor!)

I brought up all of these complaints to Tivo support when I became aware of them. I got a form letter back that failed to address the issues I brought up. Feh.

And what if I want a PVR without the 'service' because it's not available where I live?

I do want a PVR, but like the previous poster, I want to use it like a glorified VCR. And that means being able to program it without relying on some service. It also means a method of exporting a show to archive it (saving a show on the HD dosen't cut it, HDs have a finite lifespan)

The PVR manufacturers should push them hard and offer a 30 day money back risk free sort of deal also.

TiVo, in fact, does just that. link

Ok /. , I've read a ton of posts where VCRs are being setup to tape TAKEN. Get a TIVO and throw out the VCR for Christmas! With one click I got every episode of TAKEN and since the SciFI channel aired them so frequently, TIVO automaticly readjusted to resolve conflicts with my other shows I record.

If you'd never do it for yourself, then get one for a friend, relative, or lover. TIVO's change the way you watch TV. They will love you for it.
Go to TIVO now and get one.

Thanks for the info. I hate to be thought of as a troll. When you go to Tivo's site and check the FAQ, below is what you see.

Maybe I should have said broadband is not _supported_, rather than allowed for.

For Joe consumer, having to purchase and install unsupported equipment does not sell Tivo's.

From the FAQ on Tivo.com

Is a Phone Line Required?

Yes. A TiVo Digital Video Recorder works by automatically making a brief, daily call to download the latest TV program data to its hard drive so that you can take full advantage of your TiVo service subscription (learn more about TiVo service). This call is automated, lasts just a few minutes and occurs when your phone is not in use, usually at night. You do not need to install a new telephone jack; it works with your existing phone line. The TiVo service is accessed through a standard telephone line and is available as a local call in most areas. In some areas, local and long- distance toll charges may apply.

If you want to make sure that a local access number is available in your area, you can find the most up-to-date list of dial-in numbers using the UUNet POP Locator*. Simply enter your area code and all of the local numbers available for your area code will be displayed.

You are responsible for any toll charges that you incur when using a particular access number. Check with an operator if you are not sure which numbers are local to you.

Your phone will always be available for your use. Simply pick the phone up and the DVR will hang up and make a call later. A phone line splitter and a 25-foot phone cord are provided with the purchase of a TiVo DVR. The UUNet Pop Number Locator tool is 24-48 hours ahead of the TiVo listings so all numbers appearing within the tool may not show in the TiVo interface immediately.

Yes of course the Tivo is very closed. That's why they use the Linux PowerPC Kernel and supply the moded source code on request and for download. I haven't investigated to much further, but this looks like some of their software aswell.

Because Tivo is only available in two countries in the world.

And mine isn't one of them.

I love the two-faced approach of the cable industry. A while back AT&T partnered with ReplayTV to provide OEM'd ReplayTV boxes to some their cable customers.

Uh - that's TiVo, not ReplayTV. And they still sell them: TiVo from AT&T Broadband