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drinkypoo opined:

America is responsible to a large extent for what is happening in Venezuela and has long been the driving force in regime change in Iran, often through extremely direct intervention. We can't fix China (although we could stop enabling them so much) but we are responsible for much of the mess in the other countries you mentioned.

Let's see now:

According to Wikipedia, venezuelanalysis.com has been funded by the Venezuelan goverment since it was founded in 2007 (when Hugo Chavez was president), despite claiming on its website since 2014 (after Maduro took over) that it is funded exclusively via donations from its readers. And the wife of its founder, Greg Wilpert, was appointed Consul General of Venezuela's New York consulate in 2008. So, it's hardly an objective or disinterested source.

Wikipedia's article on mintpressnews.com highlights several ongoing controversies over issues of journalistic integrity (including falsely attributing co-authorship of an article on nerve gas attacks on Syrian citizens to a respected journalist who denies having co-written that article, and who has repeatedly demanded her name be removed from it, as well as falsely reporting an annual Shiite religious pilgrimage to Kerbala as a "march against ISIS"). The publication's masthead prominently features conspiracy mongers (including a strident proponent of the false and defamatory claim that the Sandy Hook shooting was staged, with actors hired to play the part of grieving parents, and that no children were actually killed there). Its sources of funding are undisclosed, although Mnar Muhawesh, its editor, now claims to be its sole investor, and that it is self-financing, via ad revenue (an extremely dubious claim, as anyone who is familiar with the paucity of legitimate advertising income available for online-only journalism ventures will attest). Her claims in this regard are impossible to verify, because, since 2015, she's made it impossible to contact her.

The only even-faintly-legitimate source you cite is cepr.net, which is a self-described "progressive" think tank. But the actual link you provide is to an editorial piece, which is, by definition, an expression of the author's personal opinion, not actual reportage.

In sum, you give us two propaganda outlets and an opinion piece in support of your argument that the USA is the party most responsible for "repressing" the people of Venezuela.

Now, I'll grant you that we embargo oil imports from Venezuela, in continuation of a policy that dates back to the G. W. Bush administration. That, in itself really doesn't affect the country's economy, because it has plenty of other customers elsewhere. What does, very much, affect it is the crash in world oil prices over the past 3 years or so - and that is entirely due to Arab countries (led by Saudi Arabia) overproducing. So, supply and demand is the cause of Venezuela's financial woes.

Well, that, and Maduro's insistence on printing money in an attempt to make up for the revenue shortfall, which has resulted in a disastrous hyperinflationary spiral that rivals Weimar Germany or modern Zimbabwe.

Chavez was a charismatic charlatan, who was able to provide Venezuela's poor with a whole range of "free" benefits only because oil revenues were at historic highs during his reign (again, driven purely by supply and demand - although rampant speculation by commodity traders had a significant hand in that). Maduro, by contr

What annoys me is seeing folks call for "Regime Change" in Venezuela and Iran while they ignore China

China is a superpower. America is responsible to a large extent for what is happening in Venezuela and has long been the driving force in regime change in Iran, often through extremely direct intervention. We can't fix China (although we could stop enabling them so much) but we are responsible for much of the mess in the other countries you mentioned.

No need for a deep dive here, anyone who knows anything that has been happening in Venezuela for the past decade or so would know this petro thing is just another scam bullshit.

If people are not aware of this, the Maduro proto-dictatorship already "nationalized" (read stolen) a whole bunch of stuff:
Petroleum companies that had a whole ton of American investment:
https://www.nytimes.com/1975/0...
https://venezuelanalysis.com/n...
Toys from private business:
https://edition.cnn.com/2016/1...
General Motors factory:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

It's just a continuation of Chavez sociodictatorship running the entire country to the ground. Brazil, with some stupid socialist politicians, also lent money for some business there which was promptly stolen and their government already announced they are giving nothing back.
The only hope I have left is that all the people behind those decisions end up in jail, because most of them are likely to receive a corruption sentence in the wave of revelations that have been happening for a good part of the past half decade or so.
And unfortunately, venezuelans are likely to keep receiving the short end of the stick until they can get rid of their so called socialist president who's actually a dictator and his entire ilk, party and everything else.
Because they will keep abusing their power... 'till half the population is dead from famine, mark my words. It's the populist plague that infected a whole bunch of south american countries, including mine. Huge swaths of the respective populations were all swayed into their discourse, with some bullshit talk about humble origins and fighting against the mid to upper class, and we're all now in deep deep shit with huge corruption schemes, and organized crime running the countries. It'll be an entire lost decade or more for several south american countries.

... and yet for the average citizen they're much better places to live.

Citation missing.

There's nothing inherently wrong with such an economic model.

Yeah. Nothing inherently wrong with Communism — except, wherever implemented in earnest, it leaves millions of dead and the survivors with neither material wealth nor human rights.

But neither does the opposite extreme of laissez-faire.

Statist lies.

Some things work better when the government controls them

Fortunately, very few things are done by the government in the US. Unfortunately, that makes comparisons difficult. There are but a few things... Do you really prefer TSA over the old private security in the airports? Or do you like the public schools, which quadrupled in the per-pupil cost over 50 years without improving the results one bit?

But the reason America had a free market capitalism is not because it "works" — for some definition of "works". We have (had) it, because it is the only way to live without oppression and tyranny. The second you decide to value the Collective over the Individual (what Socialism/Communism are all about), all things become possible: like killing and robbing a minority for "the greater good".

You claimed earlier about USA being the last to abolish slavery. The uncited claim was bogus, but did you know, that USSR has re-enslaved the peasants freed by the Tsars? Yes, they could not leave the collective farm without the farm chairman's permission? In the 20th century. They had to starve millions of people to death to get that sort of obedience, but they did it — for the Greater Good[tm].

When you become an absolutist when it comes to economic models, you cease to search for pragmatic solutions. That's when economies tank.

Yes, I am an absolutist, when it comes to personal rights. Not sorry. But if you are calling yourself "pragmatic" (a.k.a. without principles), do tell, what would President Sanders do differently from El Presidente Chavez? Bet, you were a big fan of the latter — all of you, Illiberals, adored him.

their education system is so much better

Citation missing.

Oh, yeah, because we spend like a third of our budget on that stupid military

Whether that military is "stupid" or not, we do spend considerable money on it. And yet, we are still richer than most of those Socialist paradises you listed.

2007: Joseph Stiglitz Praises Venezuela's Economic Policies
2017: Venezuela's president advises malnourished citizens to breed rabbits

Then GOP USA=Sudan & Somalia.

First of all, Sudan has (almost) nothing in common with Somalia — if anything, Sudan's government is too authoritarian. The below applies to Somalia only:

They have no government at all and anarchy

Somalia's problems stem from having a Collectivist government in the past — they are simply at the more advanced stage of what Venezuela is facing.

Both countries are a libertarian paradise.

Wrong. Yours is such a silly meme, it has been debunked numerous times.

But you knew that already — your aim was to portray my argument about Venezuela equally invalid as yours. Well, they don't compare. Because unlike Somalia, Venezuela was repeatedly and actively praised by the very same people calling for the US to "accept progressive principles". Hugo Chavez was a darling of the world's Socialists. Heck, some of these morons continue to adore Maduro!

When I asked DogDude, what would President Sanders do differently from El Presidente Chavez, he got all indignant and would not answer — nor would any other Sanders-sympathizers I've encountered. But Republicans and Libertarians would list a multitude of differences between Somalia and what they would do, given a chance.

As I said, whatever is wrong with the US healthcare, "adopting progressive principles" is not a solution. It would by like treating a headache with suicide.

I am saying that it's rational, when denied of living, to try to kill and steal to get it.

Oh, this is awesome! So, refusing to buy something — such as labor — from you justifies theft and even murder, in your opinion? This is the only interpretation of the quoted sentence, that makes sense in the context of the employment-discrimination...

I know that libertarians think that somalia is an utopia

No, we don't. This is a stupid meme invented by Illiberal morons, who project their own flaws on others and fail to recognize assholes of their own kind. Somalia was a Collectivist "paradise" — and that is, what lead to its current state. The path, I might add, Venezuela — a darling of Socialists world-wide — is now walking down on as well.

prefer to actually have a society where everyone can survive, even without working

If you wish to support those, who can not support themselves, you are welcome to share your own earnings with them. But there is no moral/ethical justification to compel the rest of us — at the government's gun-point, which is how taxes are collected — to help anyone.

Whether they are destitute through no fault of their own or otherwise, the rest of us do not owe them anything. You can appeal to us to help those, you deem worthy of helping, but you must not be able to force us.

rather than face a much higher level of crime.

Ah! So it is not the benevolence, that drives you to help others out, but simply fear of criminals? Nice, for a second there I thought, I'm talking to Mother Theresa (reincarnated). Well, here are some numbers for you... The total cost of crime in the US is about $200 bln/year. The annual cost of the "War on Poverty" is four times that. So, if we eliminate those expenditures entirely — and the crime-levels as much triple, we'd still be saving a few hundred billion dollars a year.

That said, this has nothing to do with discrimination — real or imagined — so let's not get sidetracked.

Is it really wrong to call you a nazi at this point?

National Socialist? You really are in denial about your own self. Those Collectivists also — like you — worshiped the State and expected it to provide them with everything: Education, Healthcare, Pensions... Unlike Socialists — of all stripes — Libertarians advocate for the Individual, however cantankerous, above the Collective, however Glorious.

So far, we've established, that you are a Socialist and that you approve of killing, when people don't want to hire you or otherwise supply you with "living". If you want to see a Nazi, look into a mirror...

That's Communism not Socialism.

There is no difference. Communism is simply the "platonic ideal" of Socialism — that's what I was told every week in school for ten years, while growing up in the USSR.

capitalism [...] can be just as brutal as Communism if under a dictatorship

No, it can not be. Nowhere close. You are, obviously, hinting at Pinochet — just compare his death toll with that of Khmer Rouge. Meanwhile today's Chile is Latin America's TOP economy — thanks to Capitalism.

"because North Korea"

How about "because Venezuela"? Under the rule of Chavez — a guest of honor at "World Social Forum" — the murder rate quadrupled . You think, whooping cough prevention (even if it really did require Socialism) justifies that?

Have you been to Syria lately?

Have YOU been to Syria?

Syria is a propaganda story. Here's a TINY example, plucked from the firehose of lies:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/02/cnn-propaganda-poor-lone-kid-edition.html

Same for Venezuela:
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/10360

Ah, so everyone who opposes Maduro is a violent fascist, just like everyone who opposes the rule of Kagame in Rwanda is a genocidaire and everyone who opposes Putin turns out to secretly be an agent of anti-Russian overseas powers.

Your "everyone" argument is a strawman as no one suggests that all protests are fascist.

Interesting that 'the Bolivarian Revolution' is taking so long, isn't it? It's almost like the concept of revolution is being used to excuse failures and justify oppressive behaviour on a supposedly 'temporary' but actually permanent basis.

Is it taking long? Poverty has fallen by more than half and extreme poverty by more than two-thirds.
http://venezuelanalysis.com/indicators/2009

Venezuela is also one of 18 countries recognized by the UN for meeting their most stringent anti-hunger targets:
http://www.fao.org/news/story/en/item/177728/icode/

And for the first time in half a centuary, there is a counter balance to United States hegemony in Latin America. The leaders of Ecuador, Argentina, Brazil, and Boliva have all given credit to Chavez and Venezuela for making that possible. In Boliva by the way, there was a US-backed plan to privatize water. To say a counter balance was needed is an understatement.

The legitimacy of a democratic state doesn't just rest on whether elections are held. It also depends on whether there is a genuine space for political debate and opposition. Ruling by edict and refusing to accept that anyone could legitimately oppose 'the Bolivarian Revolution' without being a facist makes any democracy a sham.

Don't kid yourself, the right wing media in Latin America is ruthless and there are media criticisms everyday of the government in Venezuela. And since you think Venezuela is a "sham" democracy, I wonder what you think of the United States? Of course, in the US no one is arrested for protesting and alternatives to the two Wall Street owned politcal parties are given plenty of media coverage.

I also don't think Ayn Rand was talking about Venezuela, or that most of her detractors would support a government take over of Best Buy

The World Social Forum — yes, it is just what it sounds like, plenty of Ayn Rand detractors, to put it mildly — once declared Hugo Chavez a "guest of honor". Yeah, they would support just such a government. Of course, when the take-overs (a.k.a. confiscations) begin in earnest, the weaker among them will try to forget it and lament, how this particular attempt at Communism "was not done right either" and how the next one — the one they'll undertake — will finally show the whole glory of the new order.

I wonder if you can do this:
Millions of people leaving extreme poverty in a short time in an historically poor country, all while you have the people who control prices and products in the opposition (which also means artificial shortages), the CIA and the US govt. actively organizing and paying to disinform and to destroy internal economy and political stability (as they did against Allende in Chile, and against many other, which is well known and documented), under an international economic crisis, with food prices increasing since (if I recall correctly) 2008, with consumption rising because of people leaving poverty (and, from there, prices), etc.
None in the poor-hating, racist and xenophobe Venezuelan upper class, none of the previous presidents did anything like that before Chavez, they are mostly foreigners who don't care about their own workers (same as in all Latin America).

Cuba didn't receive oil for "free", they gave LOTS of medics and teachers in exchange to Venezuela, and it's the same for every other country: Chavez exchanged help.

How stupid can people be to believe everything media says, knowing that the mass-media and international "news" agencies are controlled by big holding corporations, kept in their place by corporate marketing and PR? Same for Venezuela. The "freedom lovers" there were a little group of the same kind of people and corporations, that was instrumental in the coup attempt. You can't have real freedom if you don't have basic education, or even food.

Yeah, it's easy to do anything from your computer and/or mouth. Not all has been good, obviously, but Venezuela has changed for good, there is no doubt about that, and even the opposition recognizes it (and even imitates, saying Capriles is a leftist, the same thing Obama has done).

I guess this is the kind of advances and the country you like, don't you?

As a data point, Venezuela, which announced total firearm ban and confiscation recently, implemented mandatory registration in '06. http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/1812

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?CategoryId=10717&ArticleId=344086
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/601
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/07/something-fishy-in-venezuela/?feat=home_editorials

Dec 2002 to Mar 2003: Disrupting and attempting destruction of the oil industry, depriving everyone of fuel. Most of the saboteurs were fired and the government acquired more control of the industry.
Dec 2002 to Mac 2003: Owners lock-out attempting to force Chavez a resign, did nothing against the government, deprived people from food and basic consumables. It showed the dangers of leaving everything in private hands, the government started implementing state owned production, distribution, and now retail of goods. In short, backfired horribly to opposition interests.
Dec 2004: Opposition parties decide to retire all their candidates to the National Assembly, as a form of "protest", then proceed to cry the following years for not having any representation; get a little breath from former Chavez supporters turning sides (cheating their voters), but still almost non existent presence in the unicameral legislative branch.
2005 etc: Call to block streets near your home. Of course this works mostly in opposition zones, which makes them self isolated for a couple of days, rest of the country ignores them and lives normally.
2006+ attempts to try Ukraine style "orange" revolt (The Albert Einstein Institute method used in many countries) to use "pacific" methods to overthrown ("anti-us") governments. Unfortunately the Venezuelan "students" didn't get the "pacific" part too well, and ended igniting fires, destroying property and even using firearms, losing what little support from the civic society might have left in them.

I could go on, but you either get it or won't at this point. Opposition fails because of its own stupid mistakes, funny thing is they get openly funded by US Tax payers, in the form of National Endowment for Democracy (bi-partisan institution to fund "pro-american" groups in the world) USAID and such. http://www.venezuelafoia.info/english.html

If the USA used a fraction of the funds they waste all over the world funding parties and movements, and instead used it to solve their own social domestic issues, the effects of the economic crash would have been all gone by know, and wouldn't need people crashing planes against public buildings to show their discontent.

See these:
Venezuela's National Strike
Venezuela Kubuntu -- must read
The Venezuelan Educational System
Venezuela Embraces Linux and Open Source Software, but Faces Challenges
Venezuela - Stepping Forward With Debian
Enterprise Unix Roundup: Oracle's Open World
Trollparty in Caracas during World Social Forum
Free software liberates Venezuela
Free Software: Technological Democratization?
No More Microsoft blood in the veins of the Venezuela
Free Software Developers program continues successfully
Open standard Venezuelan law definition

Human Rights Watch president and aide entered Venezuela using a tourist visa (for tourism and recreation purposes only) and then proceeded with commercial/job related activities, delivering a fake report to his employers accusing the Venezuelan state, its institutions and people without any evidence whatsoever of infringing Humans rights; when it was Chavez who ended torture practices, ended forced draft (see constitution) among many other changes. On these grounds, our country used our sovereignty rights and expelled these people, whose business is blackmailing countries or else.

None of you can prove, but the private medicine has had several malpractice scandals, some even denying care based on political affiliation, which does NOT occur in the Venezuelan-Cuban universal health care program called Barrio Adentro who has saved the lives of more than 400000 people without charging a cent.

As for staying in power, go to the facts. He is proposing a constitutional reform for re-election to be consulted in a referendum, the same where you have Yet Another Chance (tm) to end (revoke) his term, in a democratic and constitutional (art. 71-74) way.

Problem is, you failed to convince the majority in 11 of 12 electoral events since Chavez won the presidential elections of 98. You don't like the truth and love to live in a media backed fantasy of lies and politic fiction, always blaming others when the truth hits you in the face.

I don't think you have what you need to change the 60% popularity Chavez has even now after 10 years of presidential terms, regardless of the fantasy you may think you live in, Venezuelans want Chavez to stay.

And this is exactly why I'm complaining about how ill-informed the anti-Chavez US media has left the American public.

Limited? This is the broadest use of the decree power ever granted. "This law applies to eleven key sectors including the economy, the central bank, telecommunications, food security and energy security."

Thanks for reinforcing my point about how distorted of a view the media has presented. The areas that he can "decree" on are little more extensive than what the US president can "decree" on by how he adjusts his cabinet and sets their policies. Here's a list:

* Transformation of the institutions of the state. Chavez would be allowed to change state institutions so that these become more efficient, include greater citizen participation, and are more transparent.
* Popular participation. Here the President would be allowed to develop norms that enable citizen participation in public oversight. Also part of this is the enabling of the direct exercise of popular sovereignty. Exactly what is meant by this has so far not been explained.
* Establishing norms for the eradication of corruption. This would also involve changing the civil service system.
* The creation of norms for adopting existing legislation to the construction of a new social and economic model, in order to achieve equality and equitable distribution of wealth, under the ideals of social justice and economic independence.
* Finances and tax collection. The development of norms to modernize monetary, banking, insurance, and tax sectors.
Citizen and judiciary security. The development of norms for updating the systems of public health, citizen security, prisons, identification, migration, and judiciary.
* Science and technology. Norms for the development of science and technology to satisfy the needs of education, health, environment, biodiversity, industrialization, quality of life, and defense.
* Territorial order. Norms that establish a new territorial organization on the sub-national level, so as to optimize state action.
* Security and defense. Norms for enabling the co-responsibility of state and organized communities by establishing a new functioning of the institutions of security and defense of the nation.
* Infrastructure, transport, and services. Norms that support the use of the human and industrial potential and the existing infrastructure to improve transport systems, public services, home construction, and telecommunications, among others.

Note the use of "norms". Furthermore, no decree can supercede the constitution, and, as noted below, the legislature can modify them and the public rescind them.

The killer, though, is the provision that 40% of registered voters must vote or the referendum is invalid. Venezuela has had the most ambitious voter registration campaign in the Americas the past several years. When looking at historical voting percentages, this means that repeal of any decree is highly unlikely.

They also have an extremely high voter turnout. Their last presidential election had 74.06%.

Don't pretend that this is some sort of insurmountable hurdle. Laws can only stand that the public isn't majorly opposed to.

What? Congress gets a yes/no vote on a treaty with no ability to make changes. Very narrow scope.

Exactly. Our congress can't modify Fast Track legislation. His legislature *can* modify "decrees".

I would not expect the Venezuelan legislature to modify anything. Something about one hundred percent Chavez supporters in the legislature makes that quite unlikely.

Something about the Venezuelans voting Chavez-loyal parties into power in an election that even much of the opposition generally admits was conducted fairly** (although with low turnout by Venezuelan standards***) bother you? Much

Contrary to some reports, the RCTV station is not being closed down. Rather, the Venezuelan government has chosen not to renew RCTV's licence to broadcast via Venezuela's Channel Two when this expires on 27 May. RCTV will continue to be able to operate freely in Venezuela on the public airwaves on cable and on satellite, as will the many TV and radio stations that RCTV owner Empresas 1BC runs across Venezuela[i].

Why has the government decided not to renew RCTV's licence?

As with other democracies, Venezuelan law allows the government the right to grant broadcast licences, renew them or let them expire. The government has made the decision not to renew because of RCTV's violation of numerous laws - most notably the active support it gave to a military coup in April 2002 to overthrow the democratically-elected Chávez government.

In addition to its violation of laws that prohibit the incitement of political violence, RCTV has not co-operated with tax laws and has failed to pay fines issued by the Telecommunications Commission.

RCTV's involvement in the 2002 coup

In April 2002, a violent military coup temporarily overthrew the democratically-elected government of President Hugo Chávez. At least 13 people were killed and in the 48 hours that the coup plotters held power there was violent repression against those protesting for Chávez's return and many were shot at by the police. The coup plotters overturned key components of Venezuela's democratic constitution - closing down the elected National Assembly, the Supreme Court and other state institutions.

Sections of Venezuela's private media - including RCTV - played an active role in supporting this coup which became known as the world's first 'media coup'. One of the coup leaders Vice-Admiral Victor Ramirez Perez, underlined the key role of the media in organising the coup, stating, "We had a deadly weapon - the media." The media's role is highlighted in the documentaries, The Revolution Will Not be Televised and the new John Pilger film The War on Democracy.[ii]

RCTV's specific involvement included running adverts encouraging the public to take to the streets and to overthrow the democratically elected president.[iii] As www.venezuelanalysis.com highlighted, RCTV was the first to broadcast the false claim that Chávez's supporters were shooting at opposition demonstrators, which then served as a justification for high level military generals to declare their disobedience to the government[iv] and RCTV also showed exclusive interviews with coup plotters.

RCTV's involvement was publicly highlighted on a television chat show the day after the coup, where journalists and military plotters boasted of their collaboration in creating a violent confrontation that could be used to justify the overthrow of the government. In this exchange, one conspirator says: "I must thank Venevision and RCTV" for the role it played[v]. RCTV's participation was so extensive that its production manager, Andrés Izarra, who opposed the coup, immediately resigned so as not to become an accomplice.

In addition to direct misrepresentation of events, RCTV also censored news reporting to try to stop the public from finding out what was really happening. RCTV's owner Marcel Granier ordered on the day of the coup and the following day that there was to be "No information on Chávez, his followers, his ministers, and all others" on the station. [vi] A managing producer of one of the station's news programmes affirmed this when testifying to the Venezuelan National Assembly. Instead, in the days of the coup, when hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets to demand the return of President Chavez, RCTV showed only cartoons[vii]. This is in clear violation of regulations contained in Arti

Very true,

RCTV's most infamous effort to topple Chavez came during the April 11, 2002, coup attempt against him. For two days before the putsch, RCTV preempted regular programming and ran wall-to-wall coverage of a general strike aimed at ousting Chavez. A stream of commentators spewed nonstop vitriolic attacks against him -- while permitting no response from the government.

Then RCTV ran nonstop ads encouraging people to attend a march on April 11 aimed at toppling Chavez and broadcast blanket coverage of the event. When the march ended in violence, RCTV and Globovision ran manipulated video blaming Chavez supporters for scores of deaths and injuries.

After military rebels overthrew Chavez and he disappeared from public view for two days, RCTV's biased coverage edged fully into sedition. Thousands of Chavez supporters took to the streets to demand his return, but none of that appeared on RCTV or other television stations. RCTV News Director Andres Izarra later testified at National Assembly hearings on the coup attempt that he received an order from superiors at the station: "Zero pro-Chavez, nothing related to Chavez or his supporters.... The idea was to create a climate of transition and to start to promote the dawn of a new country." While the streets of Caracas burned with rage, RCTV ran cartoons, soap operas and old movies such as "Pretty Woman." On April 13, 2002, Granier and other media moguls met in the Miraflores palace to pledge support to the country's coup-installed dictator, Pedro Carmona, who had eliminated the Supreme Court, the National Assembly and the Constitution.

Would a network that aided and abetted a coup against the government be allowed to operate in the United States? The U.S. government probably would have shut down RCTV within five minutes after a failed coup attempt -- and thrown its owners in jail. Chavez's government allowed it to continue operating for five years, and then declined to renew its 20-year license to use the public airwaves. It can still broadcast on cable or via satellite dish.

From http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno =2054 although there are many voices of this, including watching the actual broadcasts which you can do on... Youtube!

Venezuela

If I were Venezuelan, the whole Chavez thing would really have me pretty frightened. Admittedly, Chavez isn't Hitler -- frankly, I don't think he's that talented, and Venezuela isn't anything like the industrial power that Germany was in the '30s, for starters -- but it's pretty hard not to start drawing comparisons when he starts getting "enabling" laws passed by a rubberstamp legislature, just like, well, you know who. The rhetoric is a bit different, but they're both going after the same support base (and largely succeeding) by demonizing outsiders. Actually, Chavez has something of an easier time than the NSDAP did, because while the Nazis were in the unenviable position of having to distinguish themselves both from more capitalist countries like the U.K. and U.S., they also had to differentiate themselves from Soviet-style socialism and communism. Chavez doesn't; by positioning himself on the left wing, he can simply blame everyone right of him, without having to find any middle ground.

I hope anyone with any brains at all has seen the writing on the wall and headed for the border, because I think it's going to get a lot worse there before it gets better.

"In the context of that article, and the documentary about Venezuela we have been discussing, it is much easier to understand the crack down on journalists, especially those financed by foreign parties"

I hope you are not using this as an excuse to justify a law that criminalizes (with a harsh jail term) mere criticism of "The Leader"? Sedition laws are one thing, laws that would land Venezuela's equivalent to the Dixie Chicks or Michael Moore in prison if enforced are another.

"But I still think that most of what we hear about him is because of his intent to reclaim their oil from the private ruling class to help feed the poor in his country"

He's transferring it from one private ruling class to his own private control. The "doing it to help the poor" is a tired-old effective trick of words only: it is like someone in the GOP doing something outrageous in order to "Stop the terrorists" or "Protect the children" or "Protect family values". Like there are many on the Right who get all dreamy and smiley when these phrases are heard, there are also too many on the Left who drop any idea of critical thinking if someone says a policy is "to help the poor." Personal control and power is the only game there. I'd love it if he truly "nationalized" the oil industry and gave everyone equal shares in it (decentralizing). However, what he is doing is just another power grab and is part a trend of increasing autocratic central control.

"He is also hostile to NAFTA and similar trade agreements."

I think you might have intended to mention FTAA (Free Trade Area of the Americas). This is his main opposition. NAFTA does not really affect Venezuela, nor will it. That does not stop him from opposing it, but the big issue in South America is FTAA, not NAFTA. No, this is not really an argument point.

The freedom of the press is seriously threatened in Venezuela according to various journalism organizations and NGO's. According to the International Press Institute, the Inter-American Press Association and Human Rights Watch, the administration of President Hugo Chávez tightened its grip on the press in 2005, while groups close to the government, including the Bolivarian Circles, hampered journalists' ability to report. President Chávez's government introduced harsher penalties for libel, defamation and insult, which resulted in a growing number of journalists appearing before the courts. The National Assembly approved by a simple majority the controversial Law on the Social Responsibility of Radio and Television, or gag law, which, in effect, makes the private radio and television system part of the state, which controls its schedules, programs and content.[54][55][56][57]
The freedom of the press is secured by two key clauses in Chávez' Constitution of Venezuela of 1999. The right to freedom of expression is set out in Article 57 and Article 58 of the Constitution. The right to express opinions freely without censorship (Article 57) and the right to reply (Article 58) are generally in line with international standards.

It's certainly of interest that the Human Rights Watch is concerned about this. Venezuela: Official Press Agency Distorts Human Rights Watch's Position:

Human Rights Watch has repeatedly stated that Venezuelans enjoy ample margins of freedom of expression. It has pointed out that the country's major newspapers and television channels are highly critical of or even opposed to the current government, and do not hesitate to express their views. Nevertheless, Human Rights Watch has also firmly opposed actions or legislation that might restrict this freedom.
In a letter sent to President Hugo Chávez on July 1, for instance, Human Rights Watch criticized the investigations opened by the Ministry of Infrastructure against RCTV, Globovisión, Televen and Venevisión. Such investigations, Human Rights Watch stated, could encourage a climate of self-censorship. In the same letter, Human Rights Watch also expressed its concern about the proposed television and radio law.

If I remain a little skeptical on this issue, it's because I need to know in a little more detail exactly the thrust of this law: "Law on the Social Responsibility of Radio and Television". The idea of a government "seizing control of the airwaves" admittedly sounds really terrible... but then, the US government is already supposed to own the airwaves, and supposedly requires that the TV stations operate "in the public interest".

Also, you might want to consider this kind of information, when pondering the state of the Venezuelan news media:

Media, Propaganda and Venezuela:

Reporting on the ongoing issues, such as the protests and Chavez's economic policies in Venezuela have shown similar signs of one-sidedness, from both the mainstream media of western countries such as the U.S. and U.K., and from Venezuela's own elite anti-Chavez media, which "controls 95% of the airwaves and has a near-monopoly over newsprint, and ... played a major part in the failed attempt to overthrow the president, Hugo Chavez, in April 2002.... The media is still directly encouraging dissident elements to overthrow the democratically elected president--if necessary by force."

• Former CIA Agent Affirms Possibility of Chavez's Assassination in Venezuela
• Venezuela's 'Anti-Bush' Fears Assassination
• Declassified CIA Documents Show United States Had Detailed Information Regarding The April 2002 Coup In Venezuela

• Media, Propaganda and Venezuela

Venezuela Offers $1M, Oil, Food and Equipment for U.S. Victims of Hurricane Katrina Thursday, Sep 01, 2005

Rice: All Foreign Aid Offers Will Be Accepted Thursday, September 01, 2005

so venezuela offers, and condoleeza rice says all offers will be accepted. how much proof do you need? receipts?

Indeed, especially since they've already found Bush guilty.

Link to story

As for Western style diet and education, if you mean American style, well, they might be better with what they have.

Kind Regards

What williamyf conveniently ignored, was the fact that Chavez, in 1999 actually accepted USA aid, machinery and engineers; but USA also insisted in deploying US Marines, something unacceptable for us.

Our offer to the United States is sincere. I don't know what George W. Bush will do, or not, but its not an offer to the USA central government, its an offer for the people, the organizations helping people, local governments, religious groups, etc.

This type of aid has been offered to the countries in the Caribbean who had been suffering the past hurricanes. We have helped with supplies and rebuilding in Jamaica, Cuba, Grenada, Haiti, etc. We also sent people to Sri Lanka and India after the tsunami, along with monetary donations.

Let me return you the favor: if you ever come to Venezuela, look me up and i would gladly show you around, so you can see the truth by yourself.

Let me clarify that we in Venezuela have no problem with the people of the United States. What we have issues with, is with the current administration, because they have actively worked against our country. It is not a personal matter either, if Bush stopped attempting to force his vision of what a country should be, and started respecting our sovereignty, i'm sure normal relationships with the administration would be restored. As it is right now, they don't even accept talking with our ambassador in Washington D.C., despite permanent attempts and support from Democrats and Republicans in the US congress.

If you are interested in knowing more about Venezuela, let me suggest these links:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/
http://www.vheadline.com/

Sounds like somebody needs to have their country 'liberated'! ...

Oil found in Venezuela! Look out Norway, you're next.

Though, I've pointed out from time to time offline since the just before the War on Freedom^H^H^H^H^H^H Iraq.

Venezuela Embraces Linux and Open Source Software, but Faces Challenges
By: Cleto A. Sojo - Venezuelanalysis.com
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=14 39

Venezuela's Public Administration to Use Open Source Software
By: Gregory Wilpert - Venezuelanalysis.com
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=14 57

Venezuela Embraces Linux and Open Source Software, but Faces Challenges
By: Cleto A. Sojo - Venezuelanalysis.com
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=14 39

Venezuela's Public Administration to Use Open Source Software
By: Gregory Wilpert - Venezuelanalysis.com
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=14 57

1, What's truly ironic is that everyone here know that the "free market" and "personal freedoms of life in the USA" had nothing whatsoever to do with the invention or creation of our nifty technology. Im sure if you looked a little deeper you would find that everything from the internet to desktop publishing to electronics were created for the pentagon in secrete and under a non-competitive no-bid state contracts...only after the technology had been created out side the market with out tax dollars were they turned over to the private sector. Talk about state intervention in the market.

2, The is nothing "communists" in Venezuela, Chavez has implemented more real and direct democratic reforms than any other Latin American leader in decades. Get over the cold war and stop reading Murdoch's news.

3, Venezuela is not moving towards a "closed economy" it is moving to a post capitalist one, where the economy is democratic unlike some others we might be familiar with closer to home.

For more check out:
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/

According to this article IBM and Novell also working to promote the use of Open Source in Venezuela.

There is a good overview of Venezuelan government efforts so far -- including in the huge national oil company PDVSA (which owns Citgo in the US) -- to use and promote Open Source software here.

According to this article IBM and Novell also working to promote the use of Open Source in Venezuela.

There is a good overview of Venezuelan government efforts so far -- including in the huge national oil company PDVSA (which owns Citgo in the US) -- to use and promote Open Source software here.

Yeah, what about those Venezuelans training with the help of the CIA to overthrow the leftist Chavez government in terrorist training camps in south Florida? Does that sort of thing make it into the news?

Maybe the way it's done in Venezuela could be a good example, have a look at the link below.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno =1197

Funny (or very understandable) that apparently the more communist oriented governments (as opposed to more capitalist) try and involve the people in a more democratic way of voting...