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It turns out that this "torture" is a routine medical procedure performed daily for large numbers of people, from infants to the elderly: Feeding tube. Are they being "tortured" too?

Have you ever been intubated? Against your will? Infant, elderly or otherwise, if they or their next of kin are capable of informed consent, refuse, and then are shackled, restrained and operated on anyway, then yes, they are being tortured. If my word isn't enough, I refer you to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Tokyo and http://www.wma.net/en/30publications/10policies/c18/index.html

So, question for you - if the US authorities were to stop forced feeding, and 60 detainees actually did starve themselves to death, would you complain? I expect so. Sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, isn't it? What do you think would happen if the threat of starving yourself to death becomes a "get out of jail free card?"

Why yes it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't - but is that any surprise when you're "indefinitely detaining" people extra-territorially to avoid those pesky "habeus corpus" laws? There's no "get out of consequences free" card just because you allege a higher moral ground than your enemy. And it seems to me it's not a "get out of jail free" card either, unless you mean "free" as in dead. But they're not even allowed that. And no, the probability that most of them are evil terrorists does not excuse torture.

Keep in mind that the Islamists fighting the West do not fight alone, they have allies.

[snips quoted links] I too have some links too if you want them. There's one in particular with video of Rumsfeld and Saddam shaking hands in 1983, around the time US administration decided to look the other way for a while whilst Iraq was using chemical weapons against Iran.

How much has really changed since then? Has the government really done anything to truly show those allies that it's much nicer now and they have no reason whatsoever to be suspicious despite the long US habit of funding coups against democratically elected foreign governments that don't bend to its demands?

Maybe this will help: Pakistan Says Drone Strikes Have Been Effective

Major-General Ghayur Mehmood spoke to a group of Pakistani reporters on a rare trip to Miran Shah, the administrative center of North Waziristan.

The Pakistani general says that information the military has gathered from its sources suggest most of those killed in drone attacks are hardcore militants, and the number of innocent people being killed is relatively low.

....

Also from that article, "Because on one hand the drone attacks are a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty and it is also a violation of international law. But at the same time, they have a certain tactical utility in the sense that Pakistan has lost control over these areas and if the American drones help in containing these forces and also killing some of the militants, specially their top leadership, then it will facilitate Pakistan's fighting against the militant forces," Masood states.

How's that old rationalization go? "You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs"?

If you have any brainstorms about how to do this better, I'm sure the Pentagon would love to hear about it. Send them a letter. Maybe something like, "Dear General, I know how you can get all the Al Qaida to stop fighting. All you have to do is ....." If the next part is, "give up their fringe religious views an

Although sometimes the torture is indeed deliberate policy.

It turns out that this "torture" is a routine medical procedure performed daily for large numbers of people, from infants to the elderly: Feeding tube. Are they being "tortured" too?

So, question for you - if the US authorities were to stop forced feeding, and 60 detainees actually did starve themselves to death, would you complain? I expect so. Sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, isn't it? What do you think would happen if the threat of starving yourself to death becomes a "get out of jail free card?"

Keep in mind that the Islamists fighting the West do not fight alone, they have allies.
The Leftist-Islamist Alliance in Pictures
It's Official: Leftist-Islamist Alliance against the West

On a related note, can you post any facts on whether the CIA had or has a policy of followup drone strikes . . .

Maybe this will help:

Pakistan Says Drone Strikes Have Been Effective

Major-General Ghayur Mehmood spoke to a group of Pakistani reporters on a rare trip to Miran Shah, the administrative center of North Waziristan.

The Pakistani general says that information the military has gathered from its sources suggest most of those killed in drone attacks are hardcore militants, and the number of innocent people being killed is relatively low.

The official paper distributed among reporters says that there have been 164 drone strikes in the militant-dominated region of North Waziristan since 2007, killing 964 "terrorists". There were 171 al-Qaida fighters among those killed, mostly belonging to central Asian and Arab countries.

------

I'm more than beginning to have the disturbing sense that the US government/military has stared too long into the abyss.

The media is having its intended effect.

If you have any brainstorms about how to do this better, I'm sure the Pentagon would love to hear about it. Send them a letter. Maybe something like, "Dear General, I know how you can get all the Al Qaida to stop fighting. All you have to do is ....."
If the next part is, "give up their fringe religious views and dreams of conquering the world for Islam," that isn't going to be very helpful.

Before you think about such a thing, you might want to read up on Al Qaida's goals.
The Future of Terrorism: What al-Qaida Really Wants

It would be useful if the cheerleaders of 21st-Century Socialism made note of those differences.

...and more to... you know... facts.
Like that thing about North Korea not being a socialist country.

North Korea is for all intents and purposes a dictatorship ruled by Nazis.

"our arms are ready to fire and the exact coordinates are input to the warheads. Once we push the button, it will be fired, and the strongholds of our enemies will be turned to a sea of flames.''

The official statement from Mr Kim's regime kept up the barrage of inflammatory rhetoric, telling "all foreign institutions and enterprises and foreigners including tourists" in South Korea to "take measures for shelter and evacuation". It added: "The situation on the Korean Peninsula is inching close to a thermonuclear war due to the evermore undisguised hostile actions of the United States and the South Korean puppet warmongers."

I have no idea if these are accurately translated.

Voice of America, for example, is a propaganda broadcast that cannot be broadcast within the United States

Well, sure, it can't be broadcast in the United States, but, well "broadcast" isn't the only way its delivered.

LOL
Posting this the day after the head of the CIA is forced to resign. Priceless

http://m.voanews.com/1543302.html

I wonder...

Billions in Hidden Riches for Family of Chinese Leader Wen Jiabao

Tibetan Protests Erupt in Western China

The Communist Government of China Massacres Thousands at Tiananmen Square

"The 1980's are calling for their foreign policy back" -- Barack Obama :)

That wouldn't be fair to the Russians. After all, they are still spinning up the old Soviet practices, aping the Cold War, and they apparently aren't done with them yet. It certainly appears that the Russians would rather be the enemy than be ignored.

Russia restarts Cold War patrols
Report: Russia may base bombers in Cuba
More Russian bombers flying off Alaska coast
Report: Russian Nuclear Attack Sub Patrolled Waters Off Gulf for a MonthUndetected
Canada does not like Russian nuclear bombers patrolling Arctic territory
Japanese, South Korean jets trail Russian bombers over Pacific
UK jets greet Russian bombers
New Russian Anti-Missile Facility Opens in Kaliningrad
Russia claims new missile can overcome missile defenses

You mean the Cavendish banana, that repeatedly comes under fungal and viral attack, that it can't defend itself from due to its lack of genetic diversity? Or the relentlessly inbred pedigree breeds that have defects in their breathing, walking or vision? Genetic engineering is and will be capable of wonders, but we shouldn't blind ourselves to the dangers.

Assange's leaks revealed US investigations of Ecuadorian presidential involvement in police corruption, including extortion and embezzlement. Correa owes Assange one.

http://www.voanews.com/content/us-expels-ecuadorian-envoy-in-wikileaks--affair--119435409/164366.html

Your facts are not in order.

Pakistan is blockading NATO due to an air strike that kill two dozen Pakistani soldiers at a border outpost. The Pakistanis reportedly made the unfortunate "mistake" of firing at US and Afghan commandos which they sometimes do when they forget which side they are supporting. Pakistan is demanding an apology for the incident, and is also using it as an excuse to try to jack up the transit fee from $200 to $5,000 per truck.

The overwhelming majority of non-combatants being killed in Afghanistan are being killed by road-side bombs placed by . . . guess who. . . the Taliban. The Taliban also visit murder and massacre on the various tribes and villages. Unlike NATO, the Taliban deliberately targets innocent non-combatants.

As to drone strikes . . .
Pakistan Says Drone Strikes Have Been Effective

Major-General Ghayur Mehmood spoke to a group of Pakistani reporters on a rare trip to Miran Shah, the administrative center of North Waziristan.

The Pakistani general says that information the military has gathered from its sources suggest most of those killed in drone attacks are hardcore militants, and the number of innocent people being killed is relatively low.

The official paper distributed among reporters says that there have been 164 drone strikes in the militant-dominated region of North Waziristan since 2007, killing 964 "terrorists". There were 171 al-Qaida fighters among those killed, mostly belonging to central Asian and Arab countries.

What did this guy say that was an incitement to do anything at all? I've seen the tweets, all they were were insulting. Not inciting.

As for Rwanda, their anti-genocide law is already being abused to quash political speech. Even Amnesty International thinks they go too far.

Won't economics just solve this problem?

Not really. For many people in the US, rising food prices might just mean eating steak less often. But for millions (billions?) of people around the globe, and also for many Americans unless food stamps benefits also rise, a rise in food prices equates to going hungry.

And if you expect hungry people to concern themselves with legal artifice, such as respecting property rights or water rights, you will be disappointed. It doesn't work that way. Rising food prices contributed to a number of regime changes in the last couple years. (As much as Gingrich derides Obama as the Food Stamp President, I honestly think the US would be in major political upheaval right now without them.)

Who, exactly, are you still afraid of? In his State of the Union speech, Obama claimed that Osama bin Laden no longer threatens the U.S. (natch) and al Qaeda's leaders have been defeated. How much money are we spending to protect the Super Bowl from an enemy that our Commander in Chief claims has already been defeated?!?!

Its very simple really: when trying to determine WHY the US has taken military action of some sort - look to see which US Corporations will benefit the most and you have found the *real* reason the US is dropping bombs.

Let's test that "theory" out. In 1948 the Soviets cut off West Berlin from the rest of West Germany in an attempt to force the Western Allies from the city. In response the Western Allies carried out the Berlin Airlift, flying more than 200,000 flights into the city in a year to deliver supplies of all kinds to the people of West Berlin. The Soviet blockade ultimately failed.

So, question time - what US corporation was behind this? What corporate interest forced the US to expend massive amounts of resources to fly in supplies of all kinds into Berlin? Hmmmm? Berlin lay in ruins after the war, a final battleground for the Reich. What American corporation had such an enormous interest in the rubble of Berlin? If it was a corporation, shouldn't someone thank them?

Next, 2005, Aech province, Indonesia - the US sent the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln to assist in relief efforts. It flew 2,800 relief missions, provided medical treatment for 2,200 people, and delivered 4,000 tons of supplies. What corporate interest was there?

Next up - Korea. When North Korea, supplied by the Soviet Union and China, invaded and threatened to overrun South Korea, the US intervened. Why? There isn't any oil there. And yet the US spent more than 30,000 American lives to keep South Korea an independent, free nation. What corporate presence was there in the territory newly liberated from Japan?

I am sure there will be some conflict with Iran, its just too perfect for the military industrial complex in the US.

Too perfect in what way? Too perfect to let 20% of the worlds oil be cut off and see yet another shock to the world economy? (The Greeks are already rioting in the streets. Are you looking for cannibalism?)

The US isn't in any other war at the moment,

You mean other than having 100,000 troops in Afghanistan, fighting alongside America's NATO and other Allies?

and a new war with a new opponent is a great way to ensure a lot of US corporations make big bank - at the expense of all those honest US soldiers who have to conduct it mind you.

Really? Really? You don't think it is a good idea to keep the world's oil supply from being cut by 20%? That, in and of itself is not a good idea? US defense spending is only about 4% of GDP. A large chunk of defense spending is for pay and benefits. Any one company is going to get only a tiny fraction of the remainder. Do you really think the US would go to war for the benefit of one company for a fraction of GDP? Frankly, that is asinine given the risks, and costs.

The idea that defense companies drive decisions about when America goes to war is stupid.

Hmm... this sounds familiar. Could it be this story?

"Except in some rural areas, there aren't many songs left," he says. "In the film we show how China saw this kind of music and the Tibetan culture as a threat. Tibet was never exposed to recorded music until China invaded Tibet in the late 1940s. So the first thing they did was they set up these loud speakers and they blasted Chinese propaganda music to brainwash Tibetan people. They took Tibetan folk melody and put Chinese communist lyrics. And they trained Tibetan singers to sing these songs."

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/usa/US-States-Targeting-Black-Market-Cigarette-Sales-100426174.html

Do better. Try google.

Because printing money doesn't kill people.

Bullshit. People died in the financial crisis of 2008. That blood is on the hands of bankers.

'Reductions in carbon emissions will be more important as China installs scrubbers [on its coal-fired power stations], which reduce sulphur emissions,'

So basically never?

Scrubbers have been required in America since the 1977 revisions to the Clean Air Act. And they're still not used in China. My understanding of the situation (although, full disclaimer I do not speak Chinese nor have I ever been to China) is that the companies simply don't follow regulation. The latest news is that they just move to non-urban areas to avoid such regulation:

Carlson Chan is in charge of air quality policy at Hong Kong’s Environmental Protection Department. He says companies found ways around the stricter limits.

"When we tightened the sulfur content of industrial diesel from 0.5 percent to 0.005 percent in 1998, the resistance then was not very big, mainly because many manufacturers have moved their factories across the border," he said.

Just across Hong Kong's border is Guangdong province, the center of China’s export industry. As the factories there multiplied, the air pollution returned to Hong Kong.

I found it impossibly hard to believe that it's cheaper to move your entire operation than install scrubbers -- failing that, surely a bribe is cheaper. So I dug around and as recent as 2006 the cost seems to be very high (anyone know today's rates?):

The average cost for scrubbers today (2006) is roughly $300 per kilowatt. For a 1,000-megawatt power plant, a relatively common size for coal-fired facilities, the cost for scrubbers for all boilers would be approximately $300 million.

I guess that would be a death knell for a Chinese company (and, let's face it, much of Asia is guilty of over polluting). If China introduces "regulation" that would stunt their free market, the free market simply circumvents it one way or another. It's the story time and time again in China and I think that a large part of their government is complacent with it because their economy is comparatively gangbusters.

And when a country trades with China, they're just exporting their pollution. I mean, we're all on the same planet ... it's going to cost everyone eventually. But oooh, that free market fueled cheap shit at Wal-Mart is just so tantalizing! How can you not buy it? Everybody wins (except the environment)!

Not exactly the same thing. The Syrian army just started using tanks THIS WEEK.

Lie.

Witnesses say several thousand Syrian army troops, flanked by special forces, shot their way into the southern city of Daraa before dawn Monday, causing numerous casualties. Tanks reportedly began the assault, shelling the city as they moved in from four sides.

Another source.

"Turkey's prime minister is threatening to sue over the recently released diplomatic cables on the website WikiLeaks. A cable written by former U.S. Ambassador Eric Edelman that alleged Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan had eight Swiss bank accounts, struck a deep nerve."

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/europe/Turkish-PM-Threatens-to-Sue-Over-Wikileaks-Claims-111388889.html

The essentials of the story didn't change:

Navy SEALs flew to Pakistan in helicopters to Bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad where they shot him dead, and one of his wives in the leg after she came between the SEALs and Bin Laden. The SEALs took Bin Laden's body and the US buried it at sea in accordance with Muslim custom. The rest is relatively minor detail.

Then they don't even keep the body around long enough for anyone else to verify it. They just go dump it in the sea? Seriously?

They didn't just dump his body in the sea, they buried it at sea in accordance with Muslim tradtion (though there are disputes among Muslim scholars about when and how it is permitted). Muslim custom requires quick burial. Besides, DNA tests provide all the certainty needed. (How many other 6'4" Muslims that look exactly like Bin Laden are there in Pakistan living in million dollar compounds with vast quantities of communications with Al Qadea and Bin Laden's wives present? That many?)

Why is it so important for a Muslim to buried their dead in a day?

Muslims strive to bury the deceased as soon as possible after death, avoiding the need for embalming or otherwise disturbing the body of the deceased.

Islamic Scholars Split Over Sea Burial for Bin Laden

... Mr. Brennan said that appealing to other countries would have exceeded the time frame that Islamic custom requires, of burial within 24 hours of death.

I don't think there is any serious reason to doubt a quick burial at sea, especially since the US is trying to account for Muslim sensitivities.

They are all pathological liars in my book.

President Obama announced Bin Laden was killed by American forces:
Obama Announces Death of Osama bin Laden

Al Qaeda has announced he is dead:
Text: Al Qaeda statement confirming bin Laden's death

Iran says he is dead:
Iran's intelligence chief says bin Laden died long before the 'alleged raid'

Family members denounce his death:
My father's death was criminal and I may sue the U.S.

Locals protest his death:
Pakistani tribesmen protest

So tell me, are all of these people with multiple and conflicting interests lying about Bin Laden being dead? Is it just to fool you? If so, why?

If you dig into the actual study, it's 5k thyroid cancer cases, most easily treated and highly survivable. Not good, but not fatal either.

You do get an anticipated 4k extra cancer deaths from the highest exposed, and 5k from the population in general, but that's not 9k kids dying from thyroid cancer, like the UN News Center article suggests. Heck, the article itself suggest that the effects are hard to confirm due to smoking, drinking, and other pollution. Increase in cancer is expected at 3-4% for the highest exposed, .6% for the rest.

I'm not going to suggest that this doesn't suck, but it's still minor compared to the deaths from air pollution from coal power. Heck, I think just coal mining accidents has added up to more than Chernobyl's total anticipated deaths over the years.

Slightly different numbers than the UN Study I found earlier - UN Source, 6k cases, 15 per this report, and only a 'large fraction' of the 6k from the iodine contamination.

The WHO article is from 06, the UN one is from 08, which could explain some of the different numbers.

I happen to remember the thyroid thing. Thing about radiation induced thyroid cancer is that it's one of the easiest cancers to treat.
Going to the UN Source, I find that you're wrong on several counts
1. It's not 9000 cases, it's 6000
2. It's not thyroid cancer deaths, it's thyroid cancer cases. Most survived it. 15 per this report
3. The 6000 is all cases of thyroid cancer in the area, thyroid cancer is rare otherwise, but still occurs. The UN merely attributes a 'large fraction' to the radioiodine

I do not trust the government to tell the truth on matters this large. While I doubt bin Laden is alive, I doubt the official version of his death even more.

Let's see..... the US Government announces he is dead:

Obama Announces Death of Osama bin Laden

The terrorist organization he headed announces he is dead:

Text: Al Qaeda statement confirming bin Laden's death

The regional troublemaker with a strong intelligence agency and an avowed enemy of the US announces he was dead before the operation:

Iran's intelligence chief says bin Laden died long before the 'alleged raid'

Family members denounce his death:

My father's death was criminal and I may sue the U.S.: Bin Laden's son slams Al Qaeda leader's killing

The locals are protesting his death:

Pakistani tribesmen protest

At this point, I think anyone doubting Bin Laden's death is about ready to star in their own personal Truman Show, and doesn't really need more news or photographs.... maybe a shrink or philosopher. Cogito ergo Bin Laden moritur.

The looney bin is getting crowded. Sanity: step 1, step 2....

I wonder how many recruits we've generated by killing innocents with our bombs and drones.

Probably fewer than you think....

But the Pakistani general leading troops in the North Waziristan has for the first time publicly acknowledged the U.S drone attacks are hitting mostly militants and al-Qaida fighters.

Major-General Ghayur Mehmood spoke to a group of Pakistani reporters on a rare trip to Miran Shah, the administrative center of North Waziristan.

The Pakistani general says that information the military has gathered from its sources suggest most of those killed in drone attacks are hardcore militants, and the number of innocent people being killed is relatively low.

The official paper distributed among reporters says that there have been 164 drone strikes in the militant-dominated region of North Waziristan since 2007, killing 964 "terrorists". There were 171 al-Qaida fighters among those killed, mostly belonging to central Asian and Arab countries. -- Pakistan Says Drone Strikes Have Been Effective

. ..

January 10, 2011: While the Islamic terrorist groups in Pakistan's tribal territories are not happy with the six year CIA decapitation (kill the leaders) campaign, many of the local tribesmen are. Attacked by Predator and Reaper UAVs, armed with missiles, the terrorists (al Qaeda, Taliban and the Haqqani Network) have lost about 40 senior leaders in the last six years, most of them in the last three years. These losses are not only bad for morale at the top, but are seriously disrupting terrorist activities. The locals love this, because the Islamic radicals have been nothing but trouble. For one thing, the radicals come across as a bunch of self-righteous bullies, and use their weapons to intimidate, or kill, anyone who crosses them. This includes coercing families to provide daughters to be wives of bachelor terrorists. Then there is the terrorist tactic of using civilians as human shields for protection from the missile attacks. Here's where the CIA won hearts and minds, by scrupulously avoiding casualties among the innocent tribesmen. Moreover, the tribes eventually drew the line on human shields, bringing out their own guns and forcing the Islamic radicals to back off on hostages. The locals also abandoned their compounds when the terrorists came by to spend the night. If the CIA hit the compound (after noting how the owners fled), the tribesmen blamed the Islamic radicals, not the CIA, for the damage. The Islamic radicals know that the tribesmen have been cheering, not so much for the CIA, as against the radicals, but don't make an issue of it. On the surface, everyone is a good Moslem. But the local Moslems make no secret of wishing that the super-Moslems would go somewhere else. read more...Schadenfreude In Taliban Country

Workers are pumping nitrogen into one of the reactors at Japan's damaged nuclear plant in an attempt to prevent an explosion caused by dangerously overheated fuel rods.

Officials at TEPCO, which operates the Fukushima plant, said a dangerous hydrogen buildup is taking place at its number-one reactor. Japan's NHK television quoted officials saying hydrogen is accumulating inside the reactor's containment vessel - an indication that the reactor's core has been damaged.

Crisis at Japan Nuclear Plant Shifts to New Blast Risk

Chemistry 201: Why Is Fukushima So Gassy?

But there are reasons...that Fukushima is particularly vulnerable.

One is its recent use of seawater to cool the reactors's fuel rods and cores. In addition to the oxygen in water molecules, cold seawater can hold a great deal of dissolved oxygen gas. But warm water cannot; so as the seawater was heated in the reactor, the dissolved oxygen emerged and gathered in the empty space above the water.

(Ordinary reactor cooling water has had the oxygen removed from it by plant operators to reduce the possibility of rust.)

In addition, gamma radiation from the nuclear fuel in the reactor would continuously produce small amounts of hydrogen and oxygen by breaking up water molecules --- and the normal method of recombining these elements into water at such plants in a controlled fashion is no longer available.

Plants of the Fukushima variety usually have catalytic converters that accomplish that at the point where steam has run through the turbine and is condensed back into water for another trip through the reactor. But that path has been closed since the plant lost power at the moment of the March 11 earthquake.

Hydrogen can also emerge from the zirconium metal used as fuel cladding. One of the lessons of the Three Mile Island accident in 1979 near Harrisburg, Pa., is that when the cladding comes into contact with steam rather than water, it goes through a reaction that is akin to rusting; it picks up oxygen from the water molecule and gives off hydrogen.

This only happens at high temperatures, but uncertainty reigns at the moment about temperatures in the Fukushima reactor cores. With some cooling channels blocked, they are likely to have hot spots.

By design, boiling water reactors like these have far more zirconium metal in them than pressurized water reactors do. They boil water directly in the core, covering the fuel assemblies with a water/steam mixture rather than keeping them immersed in water. The water has to be directed to each individual fuel assembly and therefore each sits in its own zirconium box.

All of that zirconium is available for an oxidation reaction with steam in which the metal absorbs oxygen from water and turns to a powdery rust, releasing hydrogen.

One more thing: first, consider NASA's budget which is 0.6% of the federal budget. Now consider the Department of Defense's budget, which is 19%. (Both of these numbers are straight from Wikipedia for 2010.) I can't justify spending 32 times as much on wars that will only serve to kill people and create a worldwide hatred of America as we spend on our space program. It doesn't make any sense to me.

To equate all DOD spending with only war, killing, and hatred of America is ludicrous. Yes, the US military is actively engaged in hostile actions. However it is usually among the first to respond when humanitarian relief is required- such as recent efforts in "Japan." Furthermore military technology finds it's way to civilian "non-lethal uses."Also, kind of funny slamming DOD budget as all war and killing while posting to a site that is accessible thanks in large part to DARPA funded core technology. Granted probably a tiny piece of that defense war and killing budget, but part of it nonetheless. Arguably some of the same tech could have made it's way to civilian use without DOD, but to deny that DOD funding accelerated those moves is naive beyond belief.

Back on topic -- the recent experiences with Messenger as pointed out in the article only reinforce the need to understand, detect and frankly plan for a major terrestrial disruption due to CME or other type bursts. I'm confident we'll experience a major outage in my lifetime, and as electronics become more and more interconnected the disruptions caused by that outage will have a larger and unpredictable impact on ordinary folks. Time to get our heads out of the sand.

True.

Also, was there something I missed in TFA that said the Church somehow said the internet was BAD because of this? The first article merely says the internet makes it easier. The second one never mentions the internet at all. Some people are reading a little too much into the headline. Besides, it's not like the Pope has never mentioned the internet before.

It's cheaper than that and perfectly legal in some countries. CIA paid only about 1.4 million for 2 murders and a homicide.
I accept that there is a slight difference here, in that the payment went directly to the kin and not to judges/politicians. But yes, the answer is Pay $1M, and we forget that murder is true in some parts of the world

"disgruntled volunteers were gruntling very publicly"

Would that include the one with the competing site, who can also afford the entrance fees for Davos?

The Russians carried on using "counter-revolutionary" as an insult well past the time when the 1917 Revolution led to the Communists being in power.

The Soviets used "counter-revolutionary" as a charge that could get you sent to the Gulag or worse.

I was going to congratulate you on a reasonable post until the bits where you (a) ridiculed the notion that the US was detaining people without trial in cuba, and (b) claimed that all you need to do to get healthcare in the US is show up to a hospital. Unfortunately, this nonsense puts you in exactly the same nut-boat as the lunatic you were trying to shut down.

For the record:

The United States has and currently holds individuals without trial in Cuba.

Here's a patchwork discussion of how to get assistance if you're uninsured and have cancer. Note that hospitals are not required to provide more than stabilization, though many underfunded county hospitals do provide "indigent care". The uninsured have roughly half the five-year survival rate of people who have insurance. Even Medicaid isn't always enough --- several people have been recently been denied organ transplants recently because of state and local budget cuts.

Lesson: respond vigorously to cranks but do not treat it as an opportunity to push your own broken worldview.

The North's missiles are more than capable of hitting Japan (which they fired over them in 1998 and again in 2009 ), and it could devastate Seoul with artillery, never mind missiles. Oh and it has demonstrated conclusively that it has nuclear bombs and is almost certainly constructing more. So NK's inability "to hit anywhere of interest" is quite wrong, unless you are only interested in mainland America.

Also "you" have about 35,000 troops there, not 60,000.

In summary, please stop yammering about things you don't know about.

"...The recipients include the engineer behind the digital camera, the Intel team that designed the first computer microprocessor, and the inventor of the adhesive 'super glue.'”

http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2010/11/17/obama-honors-scientists-and-engineers/

LOL troll.

Nah, you have a good point. Baseball was the only sport to require an organist to fill in the boring parts.

Modern baseball games are even worse. Even live, only a fifth of the game is actual baseball. The rest is filler provided by the jumbotrons and sound systems. The only redeeming qualities of going to meatspace MLB games are getting really drunk and laughing inside about how our kids don't fully understand the meaning of the popular song Hey-oh that's being played every 5 seconds over the PA.

Before every flag waving murrican scream USA! USA! USA!, your country do it too. In this case, it is against Iran. You can read it here: http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/Iran-Confirms-Refueling-Problems-for-Some-of-Its-Planes-in-Europe-105276043.html. So, how does it feel to be on the receiving end for a change? Not very nice, is it?

Sweetener taste is a subjective thing. What I object to is the the idea that despite all scientific evidence there are thousands of web sites that will cheerfully make up all sorts of claims that anything except natural products like agave nectar and stevia syrup are bad for you when in fact opposite is true.

Free chlorine can be deleterious in high concentrations, however the fact of the matter is that if you stop using it you are in for a nasty cholera or other water borne epidemic. Peru tried that a few years ago and 19,000 people died of cholera. Even today deaths due to water borne diseases are killing thousands of people per day. So go ahead, stop adding chlorine to drinking water.

http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/warmup/cholera/cholera.html
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-2005-03-17-voa34-67381152.html

Distrust glyphosate all you want, however the facts are in. Any such fears are irrational. Perhaps it's good marketing to get people juiced up over something that isn't metabolized by mammals, I'll give you that.

As far as endocrine disrupters, there are some materials to be concerned about. You didn't see it my list of false bogeymen, did you?

My point is that I see more real hazards coming from your Fearless Leaders than your Lunatic Fringe.

Fringers like the anti-vax crowd and the ban chlorine types would throw away the two primary disease prevention mechanisms known to man. Combined they are the dominant reasons life expectancy has gone up to 74 from the 45 it was in 1900.

If you want to live on a cholera island infested with smallpox and polio and watch your children die of measles and whooping cough go right ahead. Personally I'll take my chances with sucralose.

There's absolutely evidence [nydailynews.com] that the release of the papers has put people at risk.

It may have put people at risk. But as I said, there is no evidence it has actually hurt anyone.

The article you are referencing only proves the Taliban are using the leaked documents to scare Afghan informants. Of course they are threatening to kill anyone hinted at in the documents; it's in their interest to make being an informant to the US military seem as dangerous as possible.

There is, however, no evidence the Taliban will actually be able to identify any informant thanks to the leaked documents.

Okay, I'll bite. Where is there any evidence that any lives were lost from the public not knowing who informants were, or any other details revealed in the papers?

I didn't write "lives were lost". I wrote there is a risk that lives will be lost if information is withheld from the public.

If the government withholds information that shows how badly the war is going, or how many innocents are killed in it, the war may be unnecessarily prolonged, and even more lives lost. The public needs to know the truth to make an informed decision about whether to support the war.

You are aware that Wikilekas has offered the US government to sanitise the documents before they release any more, but that the US government has declined, aren't you? (Voice of America)

There is so much misinformation and propaganda floating around, so I'm just checking.

But you are merely pushing their ignorance. They may have had Erdogan on board, but he was only a party leader, not Prime Minister. Did they check the Turkish Parliament?

Just as the president in the US isn't a king, the prime minister isn't either. Having the support of a party leader when that party controls parliament is almost the same as having the prime minister's support as it's the party politics that carry for the most part. You claim I am pushing their ignorance when the fact remains as stated in your own link that after "nearly a year of official discussions and intense negotiations between U.S. and Turkish officials both in Washington, D.C. and in Ankara," "Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the leader of Turkey's Justice and Development Party (Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi or AKP), who had assured the United States that he could deliver a positive vote in the Turkish Parliament." So in case this is escaping you, it means that after nearly a year of negotiations, we had commitments of representatives of the government, one of which was so powerful that not only did he orchestrate the vote to let US troops deploy, not more then 8 days after that vote, became a parliament member himself who not more then 15 days later became the prime minister of turkey himself.

Please, by all means, explain to me how dealing with someone with that kind of power and influence and accepting his commitment is ignorance? And sure, the vote was actually in favor of letting the US use the border and it lost only on a technicality because 18 or so members of parliament weren't there to vote. After all, the AK party controlled two third of the government which should have been enough voted to make it happen.

The author mentions that Powell (you know, an actual general who dealt with the Turks during Desert Storm) warned that while the Turks might have permitted overflight, asking to deploy ground troops would be too much.

Ok, so you end up quoting something that supports my position completely and totally refutes yours as the same as mine. I mean this was brought up because you said Rumsfield attempted to use too little troops and I countered with more was being planned to be used until Turkey backed us off. Yet you quote the article where it specifically says Rumsfield thought they could get turkey to let us use their border.

But of corse, I'm the one being ideological. Also, as the author mentions, public opinion was 90% against the war. Can the CIA read polls?

First of all, when has the CIA officially made policy? And yes, you are being ideological and you are attempting to jump from one point to another in some last ditch effort or something when you find my point valid and end up proving my point in your attempts to retort. Second, since when has the government actually cared what public opinion anywhere was outside of playing it lip service to serve it's own goals? Fuck, take Katrina and New Orleans for instance, it was all Bush mismanaging it and it was being shouted from the top of democrats lungs. But when they took over congress and even the administration, they have done nothing to change the policies or the delivery of the policies in New Orleans, they just shut their mouth a bit when the fallout can be redirected directly at them or their party. And here we are with people still displaced from the storm and flooding, people still wanting to go back, people still waiting on what was promised to them buy the government. But hey, lets close out eyes and pretend that only actions by certain people mean something and hold them to impossible standards while taking everything out of context. - That doesn't sound ideological to you?

Erdogan's parliamentary tactics were laughable, but again, the US knew (or could have known) that he was in

Universal health care, cure French girls, good restaurants, great culture (ok ok immigration problems but hey, habla espagnol?)

You forgot the massive amount of intolerance.

So you have no proof to offer?

we didn't need to have these informants named in these documents, champ.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/04/ap_afghanistan_kandahar_041210/

That your bus incident? Already plenty well-publicized, if the ARMY TIMES is distributing the AP coverage of the incident. I don't exactly think that's evidence of some sinister coverup that we needed these leaks to reveal.

But then, of course Americans are to blame for every civilian death there, right? How inconvenient that six people died about a week ago to a roadside bomb (I think it's safe to say that's not an American device that did it). Or another ~30 killed in another incident months back by another roadside bomb? Or 25 dead about 2 weeks ago?

Yes, you're right. American forces are clearly just killing untold numbers of civilians, and getting away with it there. Fuck off.

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/americas/Monsanto-Donates-4-Million-of-Seeds-to-Haiti-93847874.html

they donated GM seeds to Haiti, but i bet they sell the Roundup to go with them...

http://www.psychicpolitics.com/psychic_politics/psychic_politics/Entries/2010/5/16_let_them_eat_tech.html

"I'm willing to bet that the Vatican would be most interested in hearing about/excommunicating those involved. Suffice to say that's not even SLIGHTLY kosher (for lack of a better word)."

Pedophilia isn't technically approved either, yet Church payoffs to shut up victims are totalling around a BILLION dollars in the US alone, the scandal is spreading, and the shell game of hide-the-pedo (as opposed to the duty to instantly turn over such predators to the police for public prosecution) is continually being exposed.

http://www.americancatholic.org/News/ClergySexAbuse/

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/europe/Sex-Abuse-Scandal-Threatens-Popes-Focus-on-Europes-Chritian-Roots-90097932.html

http://www.boston.com/news/world/latinamerica/articles/2010/03/17/sex_scandal_embroiling_catholic_church_in_brazil/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/opinion/25thur1.html

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/ireland/091126/abuse-report-catholic-church-dublin

I'd like to see all priests get what Father Geoghan got in prison. The enablers are as guilty as the predators.

I took this news as a sign that the Nobel committee determined that the ongoing lengthy engagements with Iraq and Afghanistan are a bloody means to a peaceful end.

Yeah I highly doubt that. It's probably based on his non-war-related foreign diplomacy efforts. I don't agree with awarding him the prize, I think it's far too premature and there has to be a more deserving person at this point in time. Maybe once he has a chance to actually accomplish things and there's even the tiniest bit of hindsight, but not now. Oh well. They gave the prize to Arafat, which is a statement equivalent to "I have little respect for the Peace Prize committee."

I think every president discovers [that the world is more complicated than a sound bite].

And I think Obama already knew this, and it's a lot of the people who support his stated agenda who need to wake up.

I don't think it's Obama who was shocked to discover that closing Gitmo wasn't something that could be done in a day. That would be the ones crying betrayal because he signed the order to close it, but because a lot of those prisoners simply can't be let go, they have to be moved to the mainland and integrated into the justice system, there's a lot of deal-making and planning required. "Close Gitmo now!" is the soundbite that people are unrealistically clinging to.

I honestly have heard no word of [the Responsible, Phased Withdrawal from Iraq]. I guess he got into office and things got too real too fast for him? No word on that although I haven't been scouring his speeches. Now if that's why they gave him the Peace Prize, I'd agree with them. But that was a paragraph buried in his campaign promises (and not in progress yet), not something he's done.

What do you mean "no word"? Forget scouring speeches, did you try googling it? The plan is already being put into effect! Did you miss when Iraq celebrated U.S. troops leaving their cities? The fact that troops are being withdrawn from Iraq is the only reason they can even contemplate sending tens of thousands more to Afghanistan.

Of course most of this is in accordance with the agreement made between Bush and the Iraqi government shortly before he left office. McCain wouldn't have had a lot of leeway to do much different. Not that this really changes that you're slamming Obama for not doing the big thing you voted for him to do, but he's actually doing it and you just didn't know.

I voted for Obama to end the Iraq war and to intelligently address Afghanistan. I voted for him because I think he's a reasonable, practical person. And while I have my fair share of complaints of the "that's not what I would have liked him to do" variety, I don't think the reason I voted for him has been shown to be untrue. I don't think he entered the Presidency wide-eyed and naive and was suddenly slapped with reality. I think a lot of voters did, and it's the disconnect between their dreams and reality that is pissing them off.

There's a lot of comments here of the nature of "He's only been in office 8 months, and also he's failed to accomplish anything!" Not in the sense that one leads to the other, but as separate claims that he's new, and also ineffective. That's unrealistic. It takes time to accomplish anything in politics, but somehow people expect him to undo all that? A U.N. resolution to strengthen the NPT, ceasing to antagonize Russia and thus bringing them to the table as allies against Iran's nuclear program, these are all positive steps. Minor steps to be sure, but expecting more is unrealistic.

due to metabolic or genetic reasons: stick one of these under the skin with the proper mineral in the mix, and give them a regular slow release dosage without the worry of forgetting

or distribute them to poor areas of the world with mineral deficiencies (assuming the local demagogues don't start babbling about western plots to make muslims infertile)

India has launched seven satellites in 1200 seconds. http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-09-23-voa18.cfm Google finds a way writing an api to search /objects/ located in space, for doing this they shown willingness working with ISRO. Next time you google black hole .. It will direct you to it [where you get sucked off]than showing a mere ass hole, or black lady or black music album. kudos.

The root of the problem is not privacy, it is discrimination, human rights problems and how Japanese unwilling to deal with it. Here we go again: Google Earth maps out discrimination against burakumin caste in Japan.

This is 2005: UN Independent Investigator Raps Japan for Discrimination. Quote: "An independent investigator from the U.N. Commission on Human Rights says he will report that discrimination in Japan is "deep and profound....Mr. Doudou Diene told reporters in Tokyo he found no strong political will to combat racism and discrimination. He also noted what he called a strong xenophobic drive among the Japanese public. This xenophobic drive is expressed by associating minorities, certain minorities, to crime, to violence, to dirt," he said....Mr. Diene said the worst discrimination appears to be the problems a Japanese social outcast group, KNOWN AS "BURAKUMIN" face with finding housing and employment. He called their condition "shocking and terrible," and said their plight would be included in his preliminary report.".

Another example: Racial Discrimination in Japan. Quote "Japan is not usually synonymous with racism in Western media, unlike Mississippi or Soweto, but its society is pretty racist nonetheless....Also, the Japanese landlords do not normally hang out a "For Rent" sign at an apartment building. They go to a "fudosan"- a real estate agency to help them find tenants. However, try and check out some signs near your local "fudosan"- you can usually see those that say: "NO ANIMALS, NO PROSTITUTES, NO FOREIGNERS." Lovely, isn't it?.";

and another: "JAPANESE ONLY" SIGNS IN MISAWA, JAPAN;

and another: U.N. Urges Japan to Stop Discrimination against Korean School Children and Education;

and another: Japanese Discrimination Against Women;

and another: Housing Discrimination in Japan;

and another: Foreigners in Japan say openness all talk. Quote "I went to almost 25 real estate agents trying to get them to show me apartments," she recalled. "Finally, one of them took me aside and said, 'Japanese don't like to rent to foreigners. Many Japanese actually hate foreigners....Without a doubt, Japan is the most discriminatory place I have ever lived in";

Wikipedia: Ethnic issues in Japan

Which makes me wonder, are non-Japanese allowed to buy Japanese products?

Sunspots themselves don't generate the solar wind, but a reduction in sunspot activity correlates with a decreased solar wind. And yes, the solar wind is at a record low.

Funding parties that oppose policies the U.S. government doesn't like most certainly is interference:

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22868.htm

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts06192009.html

The neo-cons are openly bragging that they are supporting the Iranian opposition ie interfering in their society:

"The National Endowment for Democracy has spent millions of dollars during the past decade promoting âcolorâ(TM) revolutions in places such as Ukraine and Serbia, training political workers in modern communications and organizational techniques.

âoeSome of that money appears to have made it into the hands of pro-Mousavi groups, who have ties to non-governmental organizations outside Iran that the National Endowment for Democracy funds.â

Yes, you say, but what does a blow-hard propagandist like Timmerman know about such things? Well, he should know! His very spooky Foundation for Democracy in Iran has its own snout deep in the trough of NEDâ(TM)s âoeopen covert actionsâ against the Iranian government.

How does the âoeFoundation for Democracy in Iranâ seek to âoepromote democracyâ in Iran with our tax dollars? Foundation co-founder Joshua Muravchik gives us a hint in his subtly-titled LA Times piece, âoeBomb Iran.â

Frankly, what I find more disturbing than the fact that the US government continues meddling in this new magical era of Obama is how many in the United States continue to be taken in by these events color-coordinated from afar. Pundits have turned their websites green in âoesolidarityâ with this âoegreen revolution.â Self-described âoelibertariansâ have thrown all critical thinking aside to embrace their inner green. As if hoping, somehow, that this time it will all be true. That the âoepeople powerâ really is on the march. That it is a binary world where there are evil incumbents â" the old guard â" oppressing thrusting âoereformersâ who are Twittering away toward the bright tomorrow of a world where everyone wants to be just like us! Democracy!"

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/027782.html

Even the Voice of America admits Ahmadinejad was ahead going in to the elections:

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-06-08-voa60.cfm

Note that I think Ahmadinejad is a cruel and reactionary leader, but if that is the Iranian peoples choice I think we ought to stay out of it 100% and focus on our own dire economic circumstances, decayed infrastructure, and lack of healthcare in the U.S. first and foremost. Endless meddling in other peoples affairs only leads to wasted blood and treasure and blowback, something I very much agree with Ron Paul on despite being a leftist activist.