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FYI, in case it interests anyone, I'd like to state that I finally got Final Fantasy XI working perfectly in Wine. I did it on Mac OS 10.7, having purchased the entire collection for about $20 (including one free month) on Steam. So I'm playing my first MMORPG. http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=2739

Now name popular games for linux not made by ID Software or ported by Loki.

From the wine app database, that I linked in my previous post:

Final Fantasy XI.
World of Warcraft.
StarCraft I and II.
Guild Wars.
Team Fortress 2.
Left 4 Dead.
Counter-Strike: Source.
Warcraft III.
Half-Life 2.

These are from the list of "Platinum" support, which states as its description "Applications which install and run flawlessly on an out-of-the-box Wine installation". You can go here for a list of 1,568 items listed as supported under wine with a rating of "Platinum", in the category "Games".

The "Gold" and "Silver" lists are rather extensive, as well, and the descriptions for those ratings lead me to believe those ratings will still be playable.

As an aside, you can play a perfect (and legal) reproduction of Quake 3 Arena at http://www.quakelive.com - in your browser, OS-agnostic, and at high frame rates. My machine pushes 125 fps at 1920x1080 (full screen) with all graphics options maxed and a dozen people in the arena, so it doesn't seem at all crippled by running in a browser plug-in.

Just give me a debian build for my phone including dialer, messaging, etc..

Then I can play REAL games on my phone.. Or as real as they get in Linux!

Games aren't real on Linux? Yeah, PenguSpy and Linux Gamers don't have real games, really written for real Linux. You know, like Quake 4, Doom 3, Vendetta, and X3 - those aren't real games... oh, wait.

And nevermind that wine actually works really well, nowadays, running many top games "flawlessly, out of the box", and tons more "run flawlessly with some special configuration".

Just give me a debian build for my phone including dialer, messaging, etc..

Then I can play REAL games on my phone.. Or as real as they get in Linux!

Games aren't real on Linux? Yeah, PenguSpy and Linux Gamers don't have real games, really written for real Linux. You know, like Quake 4, Doom 3, Vendetta, and X3 - those aren't real games... oh, wait.

And nevermind that wine actually works really well, nowadays, running many top games "flawlessly, out of the box", and tons more "run flawlessly with some special configuration".

A strong second on the Pro Audio end here. I know this is a well worn topic that we've all re-hashed several times (much like the often discussed Photoshop vs Gimp topic), but there just isn't anything available on Linux that is going to touch what's available in the Pro Audio world for serious musicians and composers. As far as trying to get Sonar Producer X1 to run under WINE, there's just no way anyone can deal with the performance hit, I don't care what kind of system you're running, or how fast your Audio Interface is. Once you've got some major virtual instruments loaded, and you're making your system really work, there's just no way any kind of virtual machine is going to be able to work for you. Not trying to start another flame war, but I have to say this is definitely one of the reasons that I keep one of my computers on Windows 7 64 Bit.

But, I will say that my other computer is my own hand built server running Debian, with a nice little installation of Ampache which I can recommend highly if anyone wants to stream their own MP3's to themselves at work or to share with their friends/family.

Linux (and any OS worth its salt) has plenty of [applications].

GNU/Linux has plenty of free applications but not a lot of well-known non-free applications. There are some kinds of applications for which nobody has figured out how to make a free software model work. Let me know when these applications get ported.

Oh not one of these again. Let me fix that for you.

Netflix Watch Instantly - Admittedly limited (VM or Duelboot, Use Hulu)

Adobe Photoshop, including those high-end features that distinguish it from GIMP mods such as GIMPshop - wine

Adobe Flash CS3 - wine

TurboTax - wine

Stone Edge Order Manager - wine

Sonic 3 & Knuckles - wine

Diablo II - wine

Starcraft - wine

Street Fighter IV - wine

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - wine

According to WineHQ these applications don't present a problem. Here's your precious photoshop

http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?appId=17

Gold/Silver consistently!

Was that hard?

This analogy isn't perfect either, as a TV has a lot more close substitutes than a PC operating system. Come replacement time, you can buy another TV from another maker that can display all the same videos. It has composite in for legacy game consoles, component in for your existing DVD player or game console, VGA in for your computer, HDMI in for your cable/sat/Netflix box and your Blu-ray player, etc. This TV is likely to be cheaper than the one you owned before. You can't as easily buy a compatible PC operating system that runs all your existing applications; Wine is garbage for many widely used apps, and it doesn't run device drivers at all.

*Visual Studio required

Looks like Visual Studio 6 might work in wine...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=892

And where do they go for help? Let me guess: you are the center of your own little linux universe??

Its not a bad thing, I am the center of one too... but remove yourself from the universe and one by one your family, friends, and neighbors will run into problems they can't fix, unless one of them happens to have the nerd-gene too. But "normal people" tm don't... to use linux they need someone like us in their sphere of friends.

Umm - my daughter uses I-Tunes on her Ubuntu machine. She's 17, and had no problem installing it and getting her ipod working.

Really? Just downloaded and installed right? Everything works perfect...

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=21302

What works
Apple Account login, Album Art Work Gathering, Album and Song view's, MP3's MP4's WMA's, visualization, equalizer, iTunes store, ping, genius

What does not
iPhone etc.,cd's, Radio, Podcast, Preferences

What was not tested
N/A

Additional Comments

doesnt respond repeatedly, but soon response. distnoted.exe every so often encounters a fatal problem but still runs itunes

The "what doesn't work" is pretty substantial... iphones "ETC"? preferences? Podcast? Yeah, that sounds terrific. And the additional comments to the effect that the program stops responding repeatedly, and reports application crash errors... yeah.

All followed by a page of comments complaining of all kinds of problems.

Linux is great at things its great at. Running windows applications is not one of those things. It ranges from usable to useful.

So how do you test your Windows software [...] without installing a copy of Windows into VirtualBox? Or do you want your software to rely on Wine bugs?

http://www.winehq.org/

Please allow me to explain in more detail: There are still differences in behavior between Windows and Wine. If you test your program exclusively on Wine, you'll unintentionally make your program rely on at least one of these differences, and you'll likely end up with odd bugs when you run the program on Windows.

http://www.winehq.org/

It's a secret project that nobody has heard about.

I even run IE6 and IE8 under it.

You obviously haven't tried running games using Wine on Linux. For quite a long time, the only obstacle to running Portal 2 under Linux that anyone could find was the incredibly temperamental DRM that didn't even work reliably under Windows. People had successfully run it after cracking it... once they'd managed to find a complete crack that is, because Valve had constructed some kind of obnoxious multi-layered DRM scheme where just naively cracking it left behind game-breaking DRM triggers later on the game.

Now they all run Macs and I rarely have to do anything. It's pure heaven!

Until you find them trying and failing to use Wine for Mac OS X to run an application designed for Windows that has no close substitute designed for Mac OS X. The fact that more Windows-only apps exist than Mac-only apps is part of why Macs get rated lower in "versatility" in Consumer Reports tests.

Does it run on Linux? WINE rating goes from garbage to platinum. http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=9901

I've tried to run the game under wine 1.3.21. It installs perfectly ( as does Steam ) but crashes when you click "PLAY".

This might not be entirely Wine related though as a lot of other people ( see the Gearbox forums ) have been getting crashes upon start-up that look almost exactly like the one I'm getting under wine and furthermore the demo is *extremely* buggy.

See the wine AppDB page for it :

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=23644

jdb2

Wonder how many wine (www.winehq.org) users are infected, as users.

http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#head-3cb8f054b33a63be30f98a1b6225d74e305a0459

http://www.google.com/search?q=wine+virus

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=10107

Not well, but it runs.

If you are a gamer on a budget Gog.com has 300 classic DOS and Windows games ready to run under Windows 7, none of them costing more than $10

http://www.dosbox.com/
http://www.winehq.org/

Nope, it won't work. http://wiki.winehq.org/ARM Wine translates between API's, not between different assembly instructions. winelib would let developers easily recompile some x86 windows programs to run on ARM Linux. But either way a recompile is necessary. Some games with open-source engines will travel over just fine. For those programs that will never be re-compiled for various reasons, you'll have to use QUEMU and dig out a Win98 or minimal Linux +wine. (Perhaps React-OS will be ready at that point as well)

the problem is, that wine aint an emulator (its also the backronym of the product). so code compiled for x86 still wont work on wine on ARM.

you can find more about the topic here: http://wiki.winehq.org/ARM

You can still use qemu or another virtual machine to emulate x86 and run stuff with it.

http://wiki.winehq.org/WineOnWindows

Working on it apparently

This page is about trying to get Wine to run in Windows. Many Wine DLLs can be cross-compiled with MinGW already, but Wine itself doesn't work yet.

Why would we want to get Wine running in Windows? Newer versions of Windows fail to support old applications that are still supported by Wine. So Wine for Windows would supply useful backward compatibility for users.

WINE = Wine Is Not an Emulator http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ I used to expect so much more from slashdotters.

There's a good chance that at least some of them will work with wine.

The first Guild Wars runs perfectly well under Wine, but I don't see that making major inroads.

This header was automatically generated from a Linux kernel header of the same name, to make information necessary for userspace to call into the kernel available to libc. It contains only constants, structures, and macros generated from the original header, and thus, contains no copyrightable information.

Why not? WINE should be able to run virtually any windows software, right?

Not at all, where did you get the idea? Wine runs software if it happens to implement all APIs the software needs. The Windows API is huge and Wine does not implement all of it, by far. It rightly concentrates on progress in the areas that are used by most software. There are application databases if you want to know details about supported software, at http://www.winehq.org/ and http://www.codeweavers.com/ (commercial Wine variant)

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=16664

if you are referring to older versions, they may or may not work on current versions, but it's easy to try.

Bad press means, they kick the ass of competitors willing to pay persons to smear them. In the beginning they had no real competitors.
Just look at the Smartphone. For Google that is just a trick. For Nokia it was vital.

If they want an open confrontation with Microsoft they can, just for fun. Put 30 Mio annually on Wine development and Windows is obsolete within 5 years. Or 50 Mio annually on Libreoffice and the Microsoft Office cash cow would get slaughtered.

[citation needed] and I don't know many Linux users who do.

What I think he meant was "it's the only option linux users have".

Huh? The only?

http://2dboy.com/2009/02/12/world-of-goo-linux-version-is-ready/ http://2dboy.com/2009/10/26/pay-what-you-want-birthday-sale-wrap-up/

To be fair those numbers were inflated by people who wanted to show that a game on linux can be profitable.

[citation needed]. And please DO your homework first

It would probably be a boon to the WINE project, if nothing else.

Not really...
You're forbidden from working on Wine if you've ever seen Windows source code:
http://wiki.winehq.org/DeveloperFaq#head-fed5011434f62ae1a88baebfb8193a37ea795101

This is wrong. A "clean room" is not required to write code "from scratch". Otherwise we wouldn't have any unburdened code.

In the general case of a random person or company writing a 'functional clone' of another person or company's product there is no issue, because there is no evidence the 'cloner' saw or referred to the original code.
In this case it is known that the company and its developers have viewed the original source and are by default 'tainted', in the same way that a Wine programmer could be 'tainted' if they had seen relevant windows source through one of MS's source viewing facilities.
Here's Wine's comments on this matter:
See http://wiki.winehq.org/DeveloperFaq#head-fed5011434f62ae1a88baebfb8193a37ea795101

Being tainted does not *automatically* make 'functional clone' code you produce a derivative work, but it goes half way - combine taintedness with sufficient similarity in enough code points in the clone code and you've pretty much made your case. Without the taint (i.e. with no evidence that the developer ever saw the relevant original code), it's much easier to defend against a derivative work accusation on grounds such as that you just coded in the obvious way, and you are much less likely to accidentally include some telling code similarities.

That's interesting! I have this January 2007 post to wine-devel. That's linked from the Wine FAQ.

Did you write up and post the results of your experiment somewhere? That would definitely be worth a FAQ link too.

Yes. The Wine FAQ, "Risks" says approximately that.

The real answer, of course, is "consider not running dubious and possibly-infected cracks" ...

Oh, definitely, the risk is much less. And running something with a virus attached is very unlikely to trash your home directory as much as doing the same on Windows would do to your whole system.

The "Risks" section of the Wine FAQ answers canonically.

If you've done this, please post a HOWTO to the Wine wiki, or at least the forum!

If you've done this, please post a HOWTO to the Wine wiki, or at least the forum!

TransGaming did some really nasty things back in the days - after all, it was so bad that the WINE devs decided the best thing to do was relicense WINE from BSD to LGPL. While TransGaming is legally in the right since they forked the code prior to the license switch, what they did still doesn't sit well.

Why support them when you can support the WINE guys by buying CodeWeaver's Crossover product? At least CodeWeavers directly supports WINE, and all the patches CodeWeavers make to support new games and apps make it back into WINE for everyone to enjoy?

Even the WINE guys recommend CodeWeavers.

That's why I say, they should invest in Wine, that would improve their chance of longterm survival.

Just imagine Apple to dump 50 Mio $ annually on Wine. In fact that they say they don't compete is a detraction. Of course they do.

They should dump 50 Mio $ for Wine on Mac Development. It is a minor investment but would make a huge difference. With a market capitalisation of 300 Billion you can do these kind of things with ease.

#include "myclass.h"
#include "assert.h"

void test_bug123()
{
        myclass a(10);
        assert(a.value() == 10);
}

int main()
{
        test_bug123();
}

---

How hard was it to create that test framework? You don't need something that is overly complex, just something that will pass if the test succeeds or fails if it doesn't. You can then improve the test cases/framework as you go along -- look at the Wine project for example. They didn't create http://test.winehq.org/data/ over night, it was built up gradually, starting with getting the tests running as part of the build and slowly defining a wine test API as needed.

Collecting metrics and reporting them should be done automatically, but not initially.

Yes.

Wine is pretty good, you know.

http://wiki.winehq.org/WineOnWindows

Someone should get IE6-dependent companies to fund the work to complete this, so they can continue using IE6 under Windows 7.

Because kids can't afford a cell phone bill. Would you propose buying a phone and a plan for a single-digit-year-old child? Or are you of the opinion that any child old enough to be left alone deserves a phone on a parent's family plan?

At $10 a month added onto my family plan, sure, why not? If you can use the child as justification to add a $30/month land line to your house, I can easily justify $10/month for them to have a phone that will always be with them.

A 19" monitor doesn't work well for several people to sit around in the living room, and most people aren't geek enough to pull HDMI through the wall from the PC room to the living room. Appliances have a higher wife acceptance factor.

We have a 40" LCD TV in the living room, attached to a PC (along with a 5.1 surround sound speaker set I picked up on sale at wally world for around $45, if I recall correctly).

Besides, what do you do when you want to watch TV while your daughter is typing up her homework?

Well, since she's on her PC and I'm on the media center, I don't see a conflict.

CableCARD OCUR doesn't support any operating systems for general-purpose personal computers other than some editions of Windows

World of Warcraft doesn't have a Linux version, either... nor does Steam, Counterstrike, Call of Duty 4, the Sims 3... I suppose you're implying that software being written for the "wrong" operating system means it can't possibly run on a different OS? WineHQ appears to tell a different story...

Home Stereo - PC

True if you're listening in the PC room. But what about another member of the household listening to something else in the living room?

We each have our own PCs, headphones work just fine, so does the wifi. My living room has 5 PCs, not counting the 2 laptops; with only 3 people living in the house, there's no shortage of systems.

The stereo might run on the same computer as the navigation, but the engine runs on an independent computer systems [sic] for safety reasons.
Therefore, a car counts as two devices, each with its own telemetry.

No, it doesn't. My friend replaced his factory radio without checking the vehicle's specs first, and it refused to start without it. Replacing the original factory radio resolved the issue. He ended up doing some major modifications to the car's dash in order to use the new head unit.
Let's also completely ignore that a "gaming" PC would count as potentially 6+ "devices", if you insist on this point.

Depending on your version of photoshop you could just run it natively using Wine.

I did just that with CS2 for like 3 years professionally. Works (almost) perfectly with just (very) minor window management issues if you're using compiz.

How about CS4, also platinum rated:

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=14318

Maybe CS4 would be a better one to point to:

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=14318

Actually Photoshop is platinium rated at winhq:
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=1336

But you might need to pull a few geek tricks to get it installed ..

Someone claims it's working fine http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=9668

No status in WineHQ AppDB yet

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=12117