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..but so does a gold plated turd.

More screenies here (if /.'ed)

I want to know about the OS.

I don't know how many times I've posted this by now, but here goes again:
- Vista 'known features' overview
- Vista editions

I want to know about the OS.

I don't know how many times I've posted this by now, but here goes again:
- Vista 'known features' overview
- Vista editions

What good is a leak. If nobody wants it?

This is a gross misconception and an attitude that is causing OSS to fall further and further behind commercial offerings from Apple and Microsoft. The fact is that millions or people want it! There are countless fan sites like Flexbeta, BetaNews, NeoWin, WinSupersite, PCWorld, ZDNet, and thousands more that are all breathless with anticipation of Vista. They and theirmillions of readers eagerly await Vista's release and the countless "innovations" that it will bring.

Meanwhile, back in the OSS camp, people are saying insightful stuff like Gaim is more than adequate and RTFM. Microsoft IE sucks, yet it is still the dominant browser and I guarantee that at least 50% of today's Firefox users will switch back to IE upon the release of Vista. That is very telling but, people don't seem to be interested in the message.

People, like you, need to get a better attitude. They need to look at what Microsoft is doing and meet or exceed its capabilities. It is not enough to rest on your laurels while being pretencious and self important. Microsoft is charging ahead and is positioning itself to unleash ten years of its concentrated effort, en mass. Right now, OSS is rapidly slipping behind while people pound their chests saying; "but, we're more secure!". This is not enough to prevent you from being marginalized into obscurity by Microsoft, as if OSS wasn't obscure enough already.

How many of your relatives know what Linux is? How many of them know what Windows is?

I know that this has been discussed on /. before, but after reading http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_edit ions.asp, I am honestly thinking that I will be using Linux full time once I get tired of XP

Mac zealots use AAC because it's the default format for importing music into iTunes. It is to the Mac community what WMA is to the Windows zealot community.

In light of the previous thread about annoying adverts, I particularly like the feature where you can't actually see the body of the email because there are too many adverts on the page (eg see http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/mail_be ta_preview_05.jpg)

Read the "Right Click Triumph" paragraph in the above screenshot. That just reeks of the following disclaimer:

Available only on Microsoft Operating Systems through any Web Browser named Internet Explorer.

In part 2 of my comparison of Windows Vista Beta 1 and Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger," I will examine the security, networking and power management features of the two operating systems.

Well, I'm curious about that! I hope he didn't just forget about it...

Anyway, on topic, I don't see any mention of this story on his site anymore, so he must have taken it down.

In part 2 of my comparison of Windows Vista Beta 1 and Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger," I will examine the security, networking and power management features of the two operating systems.

Well, I'm curious about that! I hope he didn't just forget about it...

Anyway, on topic, I don't see any mention of this story on his site anymore, so he must have taken it down.

And a vocal minority on /. complain about Microsoft bashing. A lot.

MS bashing on slashdot is often redundant, and that is it. It's not insightful to point out that Microsoft is being "bashed" here, there are cases against Microsoft that are not discussed in other places. The fact that you don't agree does not make it bashing.

• The Road to Gold: The development of Windows 2000 Reviewed

• Windows XP Service Pack 2: The Inside Story

• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 1: The Early Years
  
• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 2: Developing Windows
  
• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 3: Testing Windows

• The Road to Gold: The development of Windows 2000 Reviewed

• Windows XP Service Pack 2: The Inside Story

• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 1: The Early Years
  
• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 2: Developing Windows
  
• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 3: Testing Windows

• The Road to Gold: The development of Windows 2000 Reviewed

• Windows XP Service Pack 2: The Inside Story

• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 1: The Early Years
  
• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 2: Developing Windows
  
• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 3: Testing Windows

• The Road to Gold: The development of Windows 2000 Reviewed

• Windows XP Service Pack 2: The Inside Story

• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 1: The Early Years
  
• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 2: Developing Windows
  
• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 3: Testing Windows

• The Road to Gold: The development of Windows 2000 Reviewed

• Windows XP Service Pack 2: The Inside Story

• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 1: The Early Years
  
• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 2: Developing Windows
  
• Windows Server 2003: The Road To Gold, Part 3: Testing Windows

How apt, because I'm struggling to see through the Microsoft PR to see what Vista really is.

If you don't really know what Vista is, you should take care to not comment too much on its feature set like you do later on.

Anyway, here's some known so far non-cut features:
http://winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_preview_ 2005.asp

Don't forget scrollbars. Scrollbars in combo boxes. Scrollbars in tab sets. Scrollbars in the start menu. Scrollbars in scrollbars.

You really buy that FUD that there isn't much else? http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16246 2&cid=13582253 http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_prev iew_2005.asp Try again, chief.

It's easy to believe it's just about the UI, since that's the most apparent change so far from screenshots alone.

Here's a guide to some currently planned features:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_prev iew_2005.asp

Here's a list of differences between the Vista editions:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_edit ions.asp

It's easy to believe it's just about the UI, since that's the most apparent change so far from screenshots alone.

Here's a guide to some currently planned features:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_prev iew_2005.asp

Here's a list of differences between the Vista editions:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_edit ions.asp

XP Pro has a lot going on under the hood that makes it a lot better for businesses than home. There's a good run down here that goes into details about it.

For me as a sysadmin of 500+ machines, I've have to say that ability to join a domain, group policies, roaming profiles and remote desktop are probably the four major XP Pro differences that benefit me.

These aren't in the Home version simply because they're not needed, unless you are running some kind of domain at home. Incidentally, XP Home's security subset is greatly crippled compared to Pro's which means less fine tuning of network resource access - we're talking network security and user policies here, not just browser holes. You'd probably expect a small company to have a server, and while XP Home will do this just fine, it's not the best utilisation of what you have and can't be centrally managed.

What I'd suggest you do is have a look at XP Pro and look at how the additional features benefit small businesses. XP Home may make things easier on one or two machines, but the more machines you deal with, the more XP Pro comes into its own - even with as few as four or five.

Get XP Home and save yourself $60.

You don't need WinXP Pro for home use; the additions in pro are primarily around domain related networking functionality and aren't needed by typical home users. For more information on the differences:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_hom e_pro.asp

"what does it really have to offer that is a big improvement on XP"

Introducing:

WINDOWS ON THE WORLD CLUB

brought to you by... AOL PREMIUM BROADBAND

Offering exclusive on-line content, innovative communications integration featuring IM Podcasting w/ embedded Media Center Technology, real time tech support and cutting edge search capability on and off the web!

Powered by Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition

Hey, 24.7 million subscribers who routinely let AOL download and install whatever it wants without the slightest clue about what it is and what it does can't be wrong. It will be painless - you won't have a clue how often you're getting patched. Microsoft is in the content business. Be afraid...be very afraid.

billy - resistance is ....what the hell I am thinking...this is AOL..you're not gonna resist

There are a couple problems with your comment.

First, you are clearly suggesting that Microsoft's OS is in at least the 20th century.

Second, you imply that having the Windows OS is as essential as having electricity.

I think you've subscribed to the wrong website. You might want to switch your homepage to http://www.winsupersite.com/.

Presumably by "readers", you don't mean in the sense of R's of TFA, unless you're leaving it to them to realize that the "slogan: in question has nothing to do with evil.

Anyhoo, regarding the new Office interface: I hadn't heard of this, but the first screenshots I eviled, errr, Googled look a lot like the deafault GNOME taskbar. I suppose that's a tribute to GNOME, but I personally find that UI utterly frustrating and counterproductive.

An excellent description of all the various flavors of Vista and their respective features and intended niches can be found here.

I'm bookmarking this page...it's only a matter of time before I'll be required to know this information.

Sure. You will need 5-10 CD's to install Windows. *IF* you are clueless enough, or simply do not know (and do not want to know) anything about computers.

Otherwise, you can put ALL of that on one DVD, and install it with no more than few reboots. All you need is program like UltraISO, and a guide like this. You know, you CAN slipstream SP2, and all the latest patches and drivers into Windows installation. And use simple unattend.txt file to set defaults to most installation options (CD key, keyboard setting, resolution, time zone).

BTW. I hate too HP's 200MB drivers... but do you know why it is that big? Because they include entire Apache Tomcat + Java RE with it!!!

Does this remind anyone else of WindowsME?

Yes, it was a minor update for the unstable 16/32-bit hybrid Windows 4.x branch, thankfully the last one.

Is this what we can expect for Redmonds latest and greatest?

Windows Vista and Longhorn Server will in contrast be a major upgrade to the NT series, going from NT 5.x to 6.x, introducing a new API to succeed Win32 (with a heritage from NT 4.x), an entirely new desktop interface, and much more. I can't really compare these two. Even with dropped features, Vista has still a ton left, and still clearly warranting the NT 6.0 tag it has.

It's a lot of changes, the question is whether how it'll end up when everything is in. A lot of new stuff and changes doesn't automatically make a good OS. But a minor update like Windows 98 -> Me it's clearly not. You may want to check out a list of end-user features that so has not been pulled.

Here's your proof.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_prev iew_2005.asp Look at that page, on the right see:

Fast Search results let you sort by custom metadata ("Reference" in this example).

Screenshot in question is here. This is a fake mockup. Notice how the sizes are duplicated between sets, notice the name Pat (the author's name is Paul, not Pat), notice how the dates are duplicated between sets. The caption also says it is being sorted by Reference. When the screenshot clearly shows it is being sorted by Relevance.

Here's your proof.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_prev iew_2005.asp Look at that page, on the right see:

Fast Search results let you sort by custom metadata ("Reference" in this example).

Screenshot in question is here. This is a fake mockup. Notice how the sizes are duplicated between sets, notice the name Pat (the author's name is Paul, not Pat), notice how the dates are duplicated between sets. The caption also says it is being sorted by Reference. When the screenshot clearly shows it is being sorted by Relevance.

Are you forgetting "Mr WinSuperSite" who says "Too, I'd like to remind you that Windows Vista is only in Beta 1. Lots of things are going to change, and many, many features will be added by Beta 2 and beyond."

Or does that only apply to positive features yet to be added?

So, for the record and benefit of those of us without Vista in front of us, you are saying that Vista search occurs as you type, without having to hit the enter key or press a search button? And, by extension, that Paul Thurrott was hallucinating or just plain mistaken when he wrote that it does otherwise (hey, wouldn't be the first time)?

Considering the subject of this comment bank is the article, saying "Or did you just read about it somewhere?" with that sniff of superiority is kinda silly. Of course he bloody well read about it "somewhere"!

But anyway, please confirm that you have your facts correct.

The screenshot at http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vistab 1_vs_tiger_06.jpg appears to demonstrate the necessity of hitting "search" after you've assembled your various search criteria. Is there another search interface which maybe Thurrott missed?

"Surprisingly, Windows Vista Beta 1 is a speedy performer. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see statistics showing that it's already faster than XP on the same hardware. This is somewhat confusing to me, since early betas are generally not tuned for performance. Plus, Vista has an incredibly dense UI compared to XP. I'll be interested to see whether this changes over time."

Found on: http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_beta1 _03.asp

I don't know that I agree. My sisters both use the dashboard alot. They are not super tech saavy (or any more than girls growing up in an engineer family would be), but they find it useful.

I still like Tiger better than XP, even if work and research dictated that I use XP and Cygwin (it is my last IBM-comp... I am convinced of that now). Features that I love having in Tiger and wish were in XP:

• F9 -> this is better than the way XP/Windows sorts your open windows... much better
• Networking. Aside from some glitches in the built in FTP stuff, Mac networking is alot easier. Hell, if my little sisters can figure out how to set up a network, it is easy.
• Darwin console. Ok I am a unix nerd at heart and Cygwin doesn't always do it for me.
• Sharing the top bar. That makes software more standard. You always know where to go for stuff.
• Did i mention the F9 view... stupid windows.
• ...

This guy is a fan boy for MS and I will give him credit: he gives Tiger something of a fair shake... kind of. Some of his claims are a bit crazy. Does he actually expect us to believe that MS had the idea for desktop search before Google, etc? I call shenanigans! He claims that the screenshot in here and a 30 second Bill Gates clip Bill Gates clip serve as evidence of MS and desktop search. Yeah right!

Windows had a search, and a crappy one at that. Search is not a new idea, exactly. But Google and others did it differently because the MS way was broken. And despite his review, Windows desktop search is NOT as good as Google (it builds a bigger cache and you can't pick where it goes...grumble). WinFS is/sounds like XML based meta data for files and database related ideas for searching on that meta data. This does not imply "building an index" as much as it implies a hashing schema for file structures. I.e. certain meta data allowing lookups based on hash values for the file.

WinFS is going to be slower... precaching is what makes Google Desktop fast.

But like I said, because Longhorn is so far from release and OS X is four gens deep, these are not even good comparos. Also consider that Darwin runs on multiple CPUs well. With the multi-core processors on the horizon, this is really the future of computing. I think/hope Longhorn/Vista is a disaster and helps to break the MS stranglehold a bit.

I don't know that I agree. My sisters both use the dashboard alot. They are not super tech saavy (or any more than girls growing up in an engineer family would be), but they find it useful.

I still like Tiger better than XP, even if work and research dictated that I use XP and Cygwin (it is my last IBM-comp... I am convinced of that now). Features that I love having in Tiger and wish were in XP:

• F9 -> this is better than the way XP/Windows sorts your open windows... much better
• Networking. Aside from some glitches in the built in FTP stuff, Mac networking is alot easier. Hell, if my little sisters can figure out how to set up a network, it is easy.
• Darwin console. Ok I am a unix nerd at heart and Cygwin doesn't always do it for me.
• Sharing the top bar. That makes software more standard. You always know where to go for stuff.
• Did i mention the F9 view... stupid windows.
• ...

This guy is a fan boy for MS and I will give him credit: he gives Tiger something of a fair shake... kind of. Some of his claims are a bit crazy. Does he actually expect us to believe that MS had the idea for desktop search before Google, etc? I call shenanigans! He claims that the screenshot in here and a 30 second Bill Gates clip Bill Gates clip serve as evidence of MS and desktop search. Yeah right!

Windows had a search, and a crappy one at that. Search is not a new idea, exactly. But Google and others did it differently because the MS way was broken. And despite his review, Windows desktop search is NOT as good as Google (it builds a bigger cache and you can't pick where it goes...grumble). WinFS is/sounds like XML based meta data for files and database related ideas for searching on that meta data. This does not imply "building an index" as much as it implies a hashing schema for file structures. I.e. certain meta data allowing lookups based on hash values for the file.

WinFS is going to be slower... precaching is what makes Google Desktop fast.

But like I said, because Longhorn is so far from release and OS X is four gens deep, these are not even good comparos. Also consider that Darwin runs on multiple CPUs well. With the multi-core processors on the horizon, this is really the future of computing. I think/hope Longhorn/Vista is a disaster and helps to break the MS stranglehold a bit.

"it has been stated that a "Vista Ready" system will have 512 megabytes or more of RAM, a dedicated graphics card with DirectX 9.0 support, and a will be "modern" Intel Pentium or AMD Athlon-based PC. An older system or one with integrated graphics will be able to run Vista but will probably have to do so in more of a legacy mode, without full use of the new Aero graphics package."

Something to keep in mind though is that if Linux distros work and look like today, they're comparable to Windows Vista will be in this legacy mode with lower requirements. The legacy mode we're talking about is a theming system similar to that of Windows XP, KDE 3.x, etc, i.e. simple 2D theming and possibly very basic transparency. The Aero mode is 3D accelerated with 3D effects, etc.

It seems like the article doesn't take this into consideration at all. A user can of course also willingly and manually disable Aero if that's their wishes and opinions about 3D effects in an operating system.

I also find it surprising that an article comparings Windows Vista with Linux distros in general doesn't try to compare Linux with Vista side-by-side by bringing up Vista's feature set. Mentioning cut backs is interesting as a curiousity, but what matters is what Vista will have in 2006/7 and what Linux distros will have in 2006/7, no?

This article outlines the current features of Vista as we know them today, at least.

Oh, first post btw.

http://www.winsupersite.com/ covers upcoming windows innovations: Longhorn/vista betas etc

Previously he called Longhorn "a trainwreck".

Now he writes:

Windows Vista Beta 1 Review

What the heck am I looking at here?

A long time ago--I mean, like two and a half years ago--I was secreted into a room on the Microsoft campus for my first Longhorn demo. At that time, Longhorn was still the Kitchen Sink (tm) of computing, promising to deliver every single bit of technology you could imagine, all wrapped around a Flash-like UI that was based on Anark technology. It all looked really impressive.

I have yet to see anything like that materialize in an actual Longhorn/Vista build.

...while the early Aero Glass demos I saw seemed to raise the OS at least to Mac OS X levels visually, they didn't really go much beyond that. I was told to wait and see, wait and see, and promised that things would get better.

Instead, things got much worse.

The bad news is that a lot of the super futuristic stuff appears to be gone, and may be gone forever.

We were promised a revolution, dammit, and I want a revolution.

The negative reviews are so overwhelming, even from the toughest Microsoft-fans, my guess is that massive amount of blood will float in Redmond.

Microsoft is now in the same position as the Board of Directors at Apple 1996, fucked up beyond all recognition, with a useless beta OS as a dead end street. No one, absolutely no one believes in Microsoft Vista. Customers don't even want to upgrade from Windows 2000 to 2003.

But unlike Apple, Microsoft won't get salvaged by a Steve Jobs.

Ladies and gentlemen of the Slashdot forae, I really think we are witnessing the exakt spot - the mistake that in the end brought down Microsoft. Our grandchildren will read about "the Vista mistake" in Economics 101.

You can read more about the interface by Paul Thurrott at http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/xbox360_insid e.asp

There's also a much nicer pic of the UI there. He says that it can instantly overlay any existing screen on the 360 which is pretty cool since it will interface over any game you're playing, visualization you're running during music or stuff like that. That seems relatively mundane but to incorporate an overlay system over third party developed graphics is no small feat. Sounds interesting to me.

I agree with the two people that responded above me... Vista's installation will even tell you that you can go eat a sandwich or whatever, as you can see in this screenshot, what with a progress bar and everything.

You can see screenshots of the installation process on Paul Thurrott's site here.

I agree with the two people that responded above me... Vista's installation will even tell you that you can go eat a sandwich or whatever, as you can see in this screenshot, what with a progress bar and everything.

You can see screenshots of the installation process on Paul Thurrott's site here.

In particular, if you look at the screenshots (e.g. this one), you'll see that Vista isn't using naive transparency a la OS X or the recent X.org work - it seems to be using actual translucency, so the parts of the background windows you can see through the title bar are blurred. The effect is that you can get an idea of what's there, but you're not distracted by crisp text in the background.

It remains to be seen how well it will work in practice, but despite what Apple fanboys like to think, it isn't actually a slavish copy of OS X...

Just to show how it is all the same stuff with a sticker placed over it, check this out:
I mean look at this

Been the same since '95

• Power management menu in task bar (picture) - looks familiar.
  
• Search engine (picture) - Spotlight, anyone?
  
• User home directories can now be found in C:\Users\name - similar to how *nix does it
  

• Power management menu in task bar (picture) - looks familiar.
  
• Search engine (picture) - Spotlight, anyone?
  
• User home directories can now be found in C:\Users\name - similar to how *nix does it
  

Is it just me, or does this idea of Virtual Folders sound awfully familiar? Anyone know how this compares in functionality and purpose to Apple's Smart Folders?

I definitely recommend reading through ALL of this: Review

It clarified a lot I didn't know about Vista, and it's *gasp* even a critical review, but still not one written by an anti-Microsoft zealot, but trying to keep a pretty open mind about it.

Paul Thurrott has a fairly comprehensive (and probably quite rose-tinted) review of the Vista beta over at his SuperSite for Windows.

It goes through the vast majority of new features, although doesn't go into a great deal of depth at this early stage. Seems there are no great surprises here - Vista is still very much watered down from initial promises - but apparently things are at least moving along noticably now.

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