LucasArts Announces First Massive Multiplayer Game

Nastard writes "LucasArts announced that they will be partnering with Sony and Verant (the guys who brought us EverQuest) to bring us a massive multiplayer RPG based upon the Star Wars universe. The article doesn't give any dates, but I'm sure we're all gonna be in line for this one. "

Comments

Cool.

[AgentRavyn]

This'll be great, but do we really need more big, hairy, smelly people wanderinf around the internet? ~ravyn
__________________________________________ __

Re:Cool.

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm, moderators, do you NOT get the Wookie joke?

Jeez, talk about your idiot moderations.

Re:Cool.

[Sun Tzu]

Bah. The Starship Traders will descend upon them and blow their primative craft into so much space debris. They're gonna need more than wookies to get outa this one!

Important question

[Anonymous Coward]

Will it run on the Mac?

Re:Important question

[debugdave]

Well considering LucasArts has brought all of the Episode 1 games to the Mac in a relativley timley manner, I'm gonna say yes.
djsw

Re:Important question

[Obasan]

Actually, my first thought was 'will it run on the Playstation II'. There is no reason why they couldn't develop clients for this to run on any platform they wanted, and with Sony involved it would give them access to an awful lot of gamers who might not have computer systems capable of meeting the system requirements for the game.

Re:Important question

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably not. Don't expect a Linux port either. You don't see EQ for MacOS, do you?

Re:Important question

[Anonymous Coward]

Will it run on the Mac?

I sure hope not, that's the LAST thing we need is a bunch of mac users ruining things.

Re:Important question

[artemis67]

>> Will it run on the Mac?
>
> I sure hope not, that's the LAST thing we need is
> a bunch of mac users ruining things.

Funny you should say that on a board mostly devoted to Linux...if the Mac port doesn't make it, the Linux port DEFINITELY won't make it.

The reason is that Verant's games are heavily dependant on DirectX.

I know, because I've been playing Verant's games since Tanarus was in open beta three years ago, and I've been asking them almost from the start to do a Mac port of Tanarus. Well, aside from the fact that they give Tanarus very little attention most of the time, they were very quick to cite Tanny's dependence on DirectX.

They threw out a lot of talk that they were considering a Mac port of Everquest. Well, ummm...where is it?

The fact is that Verant created Tanarus with the express purpose of trying to understand MMOG's; they said that Tanny was a stepping-stone to EQ, and a lot of Tanny's code is now part of EQ.

I'm going to venture a guess here, that Verant is going to use most of the EQ code base for the Star Wars game, it's going to be DirectX dependent, and ports to other platforms will be non-existent.

I hope I'm wrong, but Verant has simply not shown the motivation to do cross-platform stuff.

Re:Make your browser window as wide as your asshol

[Anonymous Coward]

nice ASCII art, man!!

RPG with lightsaber... *drool*.....

[JudgePagLIVR]

I don't care if it's a text-based zork rip off, if I can play rpg while listening to the Imperial March, I'll pay.

Re:RPG with lightsaber... *drool*.....

[Webmonger]

You're in luck. I just happen to have a Star Wars CD and a copy of Infocom's Leather Goddess of Phobos.

Role Playing...

[GriffX]

I want to play a Tusken Raider so that I can make that "Oogh! Oogh! Oogh!" battle cry. Or perhaps one of the frogs that Jabba eats. So many possibilities.

Ah hell, who am I kidding. I'll be working for the Empire.

Re:Role Playing...

[tiefling]

Being an EQ addict i can tell you that the solution to name problems and such is that they don't allow that name to be used, varient spellings yes, not that exact name though. I guess that they could make you to complete a bunch of helluva tough quests to gain sith status. Personally I want to play a jawa so i can make that neat "OOteeny" noise.

Online

[Matt-69]

I've never played Everquest or Ultima Online, but I've always been intriqued by the idea of an Internet RPG. How does it work exactly? Do you need a decent internet connection to use it (can I play it over my 56k)?

And I wonder when LucasArts will start releasing Linux versions of their games....

PS - TIE Fighter ruled!

Re:Online

[Anonymous Coward]

You can play over 56k.

I play Everquest. Played nearly ever day since July. It costs $10, or $25 for three months. First month is free. Package cost me $40.

You might be put off at paying every month, but I'll tell ya, I've *saved* money, since I haven't bought ANY other games since getting this. Saying this is addictive is likely saying Linux has some support from developers. MAJOR understatement.

Anyway, Everquest runs the world in parallel on about 30 different servers. You can pick any of the servers to play on. Once you pick, you have to stick on that server for your character. (You can have up to 7 or 8 per server). Once you create your character, you'll be presented with a graphic interface, some of which is 3D, some of which is text. Kinda like a MUD with Quake graphics.

You run around, beat up stuff, cast spells (if you're a class that can do that), team up with people, get treasure. It's a very very well executed game. I love it.

In fact, I was just playing right before I saw this thread.

Re:Online

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure you can play on a 56K modem. These games are run on select servers and they do their best to manage the response rates. I've played using a 56K modem and have had great success. I tried playing Half-life multiplayer and had the worst experience, however. Those guys with T1's and cable modems were kicking my ass left and right. It appears the RPG's put more effort into making the experience enjoyable for all.

Re:Online

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the performance of EQ is more dependant on your video setup. It seems to work best with native Glide (3dfx cards), as opposed to D3D to other cards. I have seen it work very smoothly over a 28.8 modem (that was only connecting at 26.6kbps).

Re:Online

[Zed Pobre]

As others have already pointed out, 56k is fine. While LucasArts may some day either release or contract to have ported Linux versions of their games, Sony/Verant almost certainly will NOT. They are downright paranoid about their system, and are firm believers in security through obscurity (which has already failed with Everquest). They attempt to prevent people from affecting their environment by completely taking over the system. You cannot switch out of the Everquest game once it is started to check mail, ICQ, or anything else. Since this would be impossible to enforce under Linux, it will probably never see a client.

If you have any familiarity with MUDs, especially DIKU MUDs, add graphics and a huge playerbase and you have the current crop of MMRPGs. Gameplay revolves around characters that you design within a certain framework, then drop into a world competing for resources with all the other players.

The good thing about this is that you can encounter people with common gaming interests, skills, and share a certain sense of camaraderie and group accomplishment. The bad thing about this is that you can also encounter people who are playing for the sole purpose of hurting other players, and you will encounter a lot of people who are simply thoughtless twits. The amount of your time they can waste with their various forms of harassment varies from game to game (Ultima Online was the worst in this regard, Everquest the best), but it is ever present.

While the elements of traditional CRPGs usually exist (attribute values, hit points, mana, etc.), the amount of role-playing that goes on is heavily dependent upon the environment, and specific game. Ultima Online provided a technical environment that was much more conducive to role-playing than either of its competitors, but suffered from an incredible number of antisocial players. The sheer number of people makes it difficult to build a role-playing environment that doesn't immediately get swamped by idiots, something that was made worse in Everquest by the immense amount of game time it takes to get from one place to another.

If you're looking for an actual internet role-playing game, you'll need to wait a while. Nobody has figured it out yet (though the upcoming Neverwinter Nights does look promising). If you want to get together with nifty people for a persistent-character hack-and-slash, you actually might be better off with a small-group environment such as in the Diablo or Baldur's Gate series. MMRPGs are really for the very tolerant.

Good idea, bad base?

[natey]

Good and bad...

Verant strikes me as a pretty good gaming company (I'm an EQ addict myself) overall...they're very active within the community they created, have a good deal of direct contact with the players, and make a pretty darned neat piece of software.

But.

Everquest's main problem (IMO, of course) isn't gameplay imbalances or quest bugs or any of the directly game-related issues that are thrown about. To me, the biggest turnoff about EQ is the sheer volume of 12-year-old brats that're running around. (I'm generalizing, of course - some people on EQ are surprisingly younger than they seem for their maturity, and some 35-year-old parents are worse than clueless kids could ever be, but you get the general idea.)

I'm sure Verant's Star Wars game will be a hit - they haven't advertised EQ in months and sales still climb - but I'm not gonna place any bets on what their player base ends up like.

Re:Good idea, bad base?

[Stary]

Well, that kinda depends on how they make it, doesnt it? I beleive it would be possible to make an RPG (especially with the entire Star Wars universe to pick in making enviroments) with sufficient space to make diff. "colonies".

I mean, that way, all the 12-yo-brats (and their 35-yo companions) could keep somewhere, and a bit more "serious" people could keep on their own [planet|space station|whatever]. If they keep it in mind... it *could* work.

Re:Good idea, bad base?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you elaborate on what is exactly your problem? Is it just the fact that the game is popular that you are complaining about? You do understand that that is the whole point of these type of games...to get a busload of players? Unless those "12 year old brats" are doing something to lessen your enjoyment of the game, lighten up and let the kids have their fun. You sound like a major tight ass.

Re:Good idea, bad base?

[Obasan]

This has always been my problem with what I've seen of Ultima Online and Everquest. There isn't much in the way of 'role playing' actually involved. It's just develop a character by bashing monsters. Diablo scaled up to thousands or tens of thousands of users. Fun, but not in the way a good role play can be where you actually have to think like your character. Unfortunately not many people understand how to role play properly, let alone desire to do so. Never the less, I wonder if they will release/sell the server so that people could set up their own small scale 'invite only' RPG's using this idea. I suspect not. In any case, none of these types of games can have the flexibility of a text based environment like a MUSH.

Re:Good idea, bad base?

[Arctic Fox]

, I wonder if they will release/sell the server so that people could set up their own small scale 'invite only' RPG's using this idea

That's brilliant man. Are there any Open-projects like this going on? I realize MUD's maybe...

I wish 1) I had more time 2) better programming skills. I would love to work on something like this.

Anyone else? I can't be the only one dreaming...

Re:Good idea, bad base?

[Zan Thrax]

Yeah, but a lot of those 12yobrats are going to seek out the planet/station/whatever that the serious players are hanging out at, and be obnoxious and annoying as hell. That's what 71137 12yobrats do.

Re:Good idea, bad base?

[Zan Thrax]

I'd say that Neverwinter Nights (or even to some extent, Vampire) will be capable of 'invite only' gaming. The person who wants to DM tells certain people that (s)he's starting a game, and they can play if they want to. Of course, they're not really MM, more like the password protected servers when playing CounterStrike...

Re:Good idea, bad base?

[lamz]

"How do you eat soup in the matrix...?"

The truth? There is no soup.

Mike van Lammeren

Re:Good idea, bad base?

[ronfar]

The bad folks show up with the inevitability of death I'm afraid. (My signature link is relevant here.)

What is needed is a massively multiplayer version of Foundation in which an illuminated elite can use psycho-history (like Hari Seldon) to control the rabble.

Actually, though, that sounds sort of like what the evil out of Redmond (they've tried to code social engineering in their game) is trying to do with their online entity, at least according to what I've read about it.

Re:Good idea, bad base?

[Evangelion]

That's the point.

12 year old brats spoil it.

Unless you like seeing your party members pour hot grits down thier pants when they're supposed to be taking care of that squad of stormtroopers which are collectively missing the broad side of a barn which is behind you.

Re:Good idea, bad base?

[Glytch]

Heh. Instead of a battle of reflexes, when you go up against a boss you battle him by having a metaphysical discussion on the nature of humanity, and whoever has the better deus ex machina as an ace in the hole wins.

Actually, that does sound kind of good, ronfar. Sort of like a combat alt.philosophy.moderated.

And, of course, I'd want to be The Mule. Along with ten million other folks. Maybe a Speaker would be cool to play... they'd have horrible attack limitations, though.

First of nothing

[Krakus Irus]

This is the Microsoft syndrome (Krakus trade expression ;-) : "We are the first of..."
What about www.mankind.net ?

Re:First of nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not claiming to have the first Massively Multiplayer Online Game, dumbass stupid fucker.

Slashdot might be, but that's because they're as equally fucking stupid.

They're claiming to make the first STAR WARS mmorpg, which is true. Mankind isn't quite based on Star Wars, now is it dumbass?

Also, btw, several MMORPGs came before Mankind.

You're such a fucking dumbass. Ever heard of Ultima Online, stupid fucking cocksucking moron dipshit?

Re:First of nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Rogue/nethack go back a lot farther....
But, even for first graphical on-line multi-player RPG, one has to go back quite a ways, say to the early 1990s and American Online and Neverwinter Nights, the on-line mult-player Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Role-playing Game based on the Gold Box engine.
A lot of fun---I played about 100 hours a month (at $4/hr!, plus long-distance charges).
William

Re:First of nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, change your tampon and go take a prozac, idiot.

Re:First of nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, they aren't even the first for StarWars. There have been several StarWars based MU*s, some of which had quite a few players and did well.

Perhaps it depends on your definition of massively. The MU*s had the potential for an even larger number of players than they had.

Re:First of nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

That's true.

The real definition of MMORPG, imo, does not include MU*s.

Because there's really one for everything. And MMORPGs are pretty old if you count MU*s.

Re:First of nothing

[milph]

First mud that involved going out and killing beasties that had hitpoints (in the US) was an LPMud at fenris.something.edu, back in, what, 1988?

If it's as good as other Lucas Arts games...

[SuuSt]

Lucas Arts has always managed to take a good idea and improve it. Dark Forces may have been a Doom clone, but it was the first decent game I ever played that allowed you to jump and look around. Then of course you've got they're GREAT flight sims (well, sort of flight sims...). This sounds like classic Lucas: take an idea which works, and (hopefully) improve it. I personally think they should ditch the Star Wars thing though, I want my Sam & Max persistant world RPG!!!

Re:If it's as good as other Lucas Arts games...

[Webmonger]

I loved X-wing and TIE fighter. I still replay them from time to time, even though they won't run under DOSEMU.

But other Star Wars games weren't so great. Here's an article on Star Wars games, good and bad.

I wanna be ...

[(void*)]

that guy who was a squeaky clean kid that shouts "Yippee!", assemble droids, become an ace fighter pilot, get to kiss Natalie Portman, wield a lightsabre, then don blackboots, and a dark helmet, kill millions and millions of innocents, then be forgiven by my talented son, the last of the Jedi ...

Re:I wanna be ...

[Ig0r]

He gets to do a -little- more than kiss her, if you know what I mean... >:)

--

Re:I wanna be ...

[QuMa]

Yes! He petrifies her!

(I can't believe I just said that...)

Re:I wanna be ...

[Trejus]

Well, he wasn't really the last of the jedi. I believe that Leia trains in the way of the force as well, and she and han have a lot of jedi children.

gamebalance

[jeroenb]

I just wonder how they're going to work out a scheme to make the game interesting for everybody without having a universe where 99% of the population is Senior Jedi Knight :)

The problem is: if you want to make this play like the real SW universe, only a couple of players could be a Jedi and the majority would have to be stormtrooper, tusken raider, ewok, etc. I can see people registering 10.000 times just so they get to be a Jedi and stuff like that. I hope they solve this in a cool way - I wouldn't mind playing a stormtrooper.

I'm not sure about being an ewok though...

Re:gamebalance

[drivers]

That's the thing. Every player should be allowed to be a hero, even if it isn't realistic. This is a game not a simulation. Ultima Online is a little bit less fun due to the fact that so many characters end up building chairs for a living to get ahead. :)

Re:gamebalance

[Perdo]

Paths to proficiency:

Bots: Agriculture bot to IG88

Normal humans: slaves to Han Solo

Jedi: from "The force is strong in this one" to "more powerful than you can possibly imagine"

Although there was cybernetic augmentation whether there was better than human cybernetic augmentation is open to speculation.. e.g. Cyberpunk 2020

Alien growth/power building... such as the more you fight the stronger you get without a limit... or hive structure where you play a "swarm" that grows in members with combined power to rival other sorts.

Fighter pilots? better and better fighters?

To make it Jedicentric would disembowel a potentially rich and diverse universe.

Perhaps "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" could be used as a good anti player killer. If someone killed you, you could then temporarily pass all or double your power to the next opponent they fought. Insures they at least have to give up their own life to take yours.

Re:gamebalance

[jallen02]

Perhaps "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" could be used as a good anti player killer. If someone killed you, you could then temporarily pass all or double your power to the next opponent they fought. Insures they at least have to give up their own life to take yours.

This idea struck me as a highly fun disabling and political idea. Granted PK is horrible when you get some high level characters who can brutalize lil guys.

Okay follow my line of thinking here. If you have to basically sacrifice your life to kill someone then the point of being a good PKer is invalidated quite a bit and it probably would only amount to 'making a statement'

That seems to make it a bit to 'political' Because PKing is an important part of a good Roleplaying Game to me. Online gaming etc. I enjoy the challenge of having other players after me.

What fun is it to know if im killed then I know im gonna die it would seem to take away a lot of motivation for the game. Granted I see where you are going. taking power from the more powerful characters is probably not a good way to keep the addicts coming :p

Jeremy

Re:gamebalance

[treke]

I doubt that would really happen. I know that Senior Jedi Knight is the last position I'd want :) I like being the bad guy, and I'm sure there are enough people who feel like I do. I'd even be tempted to play storm trooper. They're the ones who get to bully people around the most after all
treke

Re:gamebalance

[El Volio]

I think there's a large contingent of potential players who wouldn't necessarily want to be Jedi. (I would... Obi-Wan was my boyhood hero).

It will be interesting to see how they balance it. The SW RPG (old-school) worked OK because they didn't have to balance thousands of players. Here, it will be a little different. But there's enough going on in places like Corellia and Tatooine that getting mixed up in even local rebellions (or really being on the fringe of the galaxy, where the Empire/Republic, depending on the chosen era) will be easy and fun.

Re:gamebalance

[Zan Thrax]

I think there's a large contingent of potential players who wouldn't necessarily want to be Jedi.

Like me. Solo was da man, man. Luke was just a whiny punk with good genetics (who happened to make out with his sister)...

Re:gamebalance

[huddles]

Actually, I've heard that the most popular role will be Jar-Jar Hunter.

Joe

Re:gamebalance

[Symbiosis]

Everyone's given reasons how this could work (and I'm not gonna tempt a redundancy moderation :-)), I just thought I'd chime in and say that I think it could work out quite nicely. I mean, considering the diversity and pretty much infinite possibilities of characters and worlds and what haven't you. I think they'll be plenty of people with enough curiosity (and originality) to diversify the population. Maybe they'll establish some sort of Jedi Council to keep the lightsabers in check. :-)

As long as they don't make major characters from the movies and make them playable, it should be okay. It would be cool to come across a Luke Skywalker NPC, but 100,000 Luke Skywalkers in every city would get old quickly. :-)

I have to admit, though, I wouldn't _mind_ being Boba Fett (if they twisted my arm, of course). :-)

Hrm... now to convince the parental units to pay the inevitable monthly access fee....

Re:gamebalance

[ubergoober]

Heh... if you frequent the MUD community, check out: deathstar.dmatech.com:6666 A Star Wars based MUD, with about 8-10 guilds/professions. Come on, given the option, wouldn't you get a kick out of being the pilot of an Imperial Warship blasting the crap out of fighters than being a goober Jedi with their little flaming sticks? OR Smuggle Ewoks into the Seventh Moon of Hell (Where they truly belong)? ' Jedi/Shmedi. Give me the Power to send millions of infantry to their death any day. Scotty the Ubergoober

Re:gamebalance

[RickHunter]

No, not everyone will be a super-Jedi-master. There are other roles to play in the Starwars universe that can be just as fun. Fighter pilot (LOTS of those around!), starship captain (small, Millennium Falcon-sized ship), elite soldier, trader, criminal, etc. There's a Star Wars pencil-and-paper RPG (not sure if its still available) that was quite fun, even without everyone playing a Jedi.

And the Star Wars universe is, IMHO, sufficiently large so that you don't run into the same problem as you do in Medieval games. Especially if you set up some kind of random-world generating system like Diablo had...

-RickHunter
--"We are gray. We stand between the candle and the star."
--Gray council, Babylon 5.

Re:gamebalance

[milph]

I'd enjoy playing a stormtrooper, I think.

Note to self: spend points on blaster accuracy.

Or maybe "Young Jabba"...

George Lucass

[Anonymous Coward]

A Public Tribute from all your loyal fans.

pay-to-play?

[Ater]

Refreshing to see that the gaming industry hasnt totally abandoned the industry (although it seems close), and the Star Wars series has always been a prime setting for rpgs with its huge universe (I'm still holding out for hopes of a multiplayer Fallout though). But it also reminds me of another complaint that I have with the gaming industry today

What does annoy me is that like Everquest and UO, is that this game will most likely be another "Pay-to-play" game with ridiculous monthly charges. Yes I can afford $10-20/mo, but the money adds up, and it is ridiculous to expect a consumer to pay regular fees for a game, or so to speak. One thing I would like to know is why all online RPG's charge for playtime. I never see it occuring in the action, wargame, or real-time strategy field. If I buy Starcraft, Quake III, or even Diablo, I wouldnt have to pay anything extra for online play. Granted, I'm not knowledge about the workings, but I doubt RPG's require such additional online maintainence that it merits a continuous charge. I do realize that the characters and settings are stored, unlike the average strat/shooter game, but again, I hardly see how that would account for any additional expenses.

Maybe it's just me, but once a game is purchased, you should be able to play it out of the box and enjoy it as intended without having to fork over more money. Even the occasional ad would be sometimes acceptable as an alternative, IMHO. I think that if online RPG providers would stop absurdly charging fees, even more customers would sign up, and idle ones who already bought the game would play more often. I see the high numbers of people that dont seem to mind the charge, yet I also have many more friends who would be dying to join the online RPG world but are sickened by the notion of an extra charge.

Re:pay-to-play?

[thopkins]

One of the main costs associated with these is bandwidth. In QuakeII, id has nothing to do with online play because people set up their own servers. Battle.net is just a match maker service, once the game is started you disconnect from battle.net and are connected directly to each other. In a massively multiplayer game like this, you're always connected to the main server along with 1000's of other people. That much bandwidth becomes very expensive for the company who runs the service.

Re:pay-to-play?

[drivers]

I pay $8 to get into the movies (one person, approx 2 hours). I pay $30 a month for cable. Heck, I pay $50 a month for my internet connection (DSL + ISP). An EQ subscription gives you many many many more hours of [mindless] entertainment per dollar. It's $10 a month (not $10-20 like you said). Sure there are MUDs you can play for free (EQ is just a MUD in 3D) why don't you play those instead? Verant/Sony continues to get subscription money and they can pour tons of resources into server hardware, improving the game, etc. If you think $10 a month is too much to pay, do you ever actually buy any games?

It would be nice if they didn't charge you $40 to get EQ to begin with though. You'd think they'd make more in the long run if the original CD was less.

Re:pay-to-play?

[Loligo]

Everquest and UO take place in a persistent world, with *large* server farms supporting each shard/continent/whatever metaphor.

Those farms are connected to big fat network pipes.

Those farms and network pipes are supported by system and network administrators.

None of these things are free.

-LjM

Re:pay-to-play?

[Ater]

yeah i guess the obvious bandwidth issue slipped my mind for a second, but i still think the monthly charges should be eliminated or accounted for in the purchase. I realize the nature of the game would make it require significantly more bandwidth than online card games, but I doubt the price is significant enough to require about 10 bucks a month. Even then, a monthly base of 120,000 adds up to over a million bucks per month to pay a fraction of the costs (I am counting the profit factor here too). I could stand a one-time signup fee of $10-20 or so, or as I said earlier, some level of ads. Even being fully aware of the costs though, I still think the companies are trying to squeeze every last cent out of the customer with monthly charges, and I bet it is holding back even more potential buyers and players.

Re:pay-to-play?

[Obasan]

I'm actually inclined to think the opposite. I can understand why they want a monthly charge (although I think it's a little pricey given the service provided). They need to keep the servers alive 'indefinitely'. True, they can assume that interest in the game will decrease as the game gets older, but with no new sales coming in paying for server admins, server room space and bandwidth is going to be a constant drain on their coffers. And if they ever shut down the service you can bet gamers would cry bloody murder.

What I think is that they shouldn't charge for the game CD at all. I was actually shocked when I found out they were charging for the Ultima Online software itself. That doesn't make sense to me. The idea is to hook people into paying a 'low' monthly fee for using the network service. Asking for a full software title's price upfront and then charging a monthly fee seems excessive to me.

Re:pay-to-play?

[Ater]

I know you think I'm some whiny tightwad, but I honestly do feel that my point is valid. Yes, I can afford the expense, but I'm not on a disposable income as the EQ designers would like to think. I do buy games occasionally, though to be honest I only do so when I have heard from about 10 sources that it is an exceptional game, and then I do wait for the game to cool off a little and buy it at about $20-40. I have no doubt that bandwidth and admins cost money, but still the kind of money they're charging (and making) is a bit excessive IMHO. I could actually go for a pay-to-play thing if they were reasonable enough to reduce the game price to about $10-20 (or maybe even free, but thats wishful thinking) and expand the subscription time (maybe $20-30/year or so).

Re:pay-to-play?

[Ater]

I guess I should have stated that I understood the bandwidth costs already and not made myself look like an idiot, but that was my fault.

Anyway, my main objections still are

a)the regularity of the fees... yes servers cost money, but $10/mo or $100 year is still highly excessive. and with free adsupported 56k isp's and the like readily around, I hardly doubt that a huge gaming company could continue to provide services off either nothing with minimal ads or a maybe a lump sum of $20-30 per year.

b)the store price of the game... yeah about 10 other people posted this, but the company could also charge only $10-20 for the game, or even make it free and maybe the monthly prices wouldnt be so abusurd as they are now.

Re:pay-to-play?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell it brother!

And I mean that.. UO hit the markets near CDN$100. On top of that is a monthly charge? Fsck off. If I pay $60 for a game, I damn well had better get a free month or 3 with it.

Of course, if you get it at the store for free, noone wants to pay to play ;-) They charge for the software to cover the software development costs, and then to play to cover the server farms.

Re:pay-to-play?

[Sundiata]

You know what? I can think of one great example right off the top of my head as to why these companies need to charge subscription fees.

Remember Subspace?

If you don't, it was a very fun, very addictive top-down multiplayer space shooter developed by Virgin Interactive. It enjoyed a long and fairly public beta life, during which many concerns over subscription fees were voiced. Due in part to tester response, it was decided that Virgin would not charge on a monthly basis after you purchased the game itself. Upon hearing this news, the players were jubilant.

Almost immediately, though, things started going downhill. Servers couldn't handle the increased load of players, and the few people who ran full-time independent servers were usually running at maximum capacity. Virgin didn't have the cash flow to upgrade their servers or their lines fast enough to keep up with the game. Shortly after the release of the game, the game was cracked and distributed; Virgin had to deal with a fresh influx of players without the benefit of having additional money to take care of them. People started finding and exploiting bugs in the game; Virgin was ill-inclined to pay developers to fix bugs in a game that was now obviously not a money-maker. The game exploits turned into service attacks; towards the end of the "official" life of Subspace, it was not uncommon for there to be over 10% downtime of the game/login servers on any given day.

In the end, Virgin had to scrap Subspace entirely. The program was a total loss for them, and as far as I know, they haven't made another trip into the world of MMOG since. Sure, Subspace is still alive, driven by user-run servers and randomly available cracked EXEs, but rest assured that nothing more is going to happen with it.

I would have loved to have seen what Virgin had in store for Subspace 2; unfortunately, that'll never happen. As wonderful as the notion of free access is, when you need to support some serious, heavy-duty servers, high-speed, high-availability internet connections, a developer base to fix bugs and stop exploits, and a legion of in-game moderators and administrators to weed out the idiots who insist on ruining the experience for everyone else, you're talking big bucks. Without financial backing, the closest you'll ever come to massively multiplayer on-line gaming is the deathmatch action in Q3 and UT that so many people erroneously think is what MMOG really is.

Re:pay-to-play?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, considering the bandwidth they use each month, from about 3 different ISPs entirely, which can BARELY support their needs, it is most likely costing them near half a million a month just to keep up with customers. You also have to remember that the servers themselves are farms, where 5-10 zones are placed on ONE machine. This might sound low cost, but figure about 100 zones PER "world" that can support up to 2000 people (and thats PUSHING it) thats about 10 machines right there. Now, for the demand, there are about 24 *worlds*, thats about 240+ machines that need to be babysat 24 *hours* a day *every* day, with less than 1% downtime *per month* - That takes some workpower, and a LOT of *salaries* to be paid. Each server also has to be backed up every few hours, and drives blow out all the time, so they need insane RAID setups, this just hurts my head even thinking about it. At $10/Month I sometimes wonder if they are making a profit at all. Im sure they are, but probably not as much as you'd like to think they are.

Re:pay-to-play?

[rafaor]

Well, the concept of "pay once only" would be very nice, but, how about upkeep of the game? Perhaps a form of in-game advertising? I don't think so...

With a *very* large user base, maybe they could lower the cost, but give it away for free? It makes more sense if they give the client away and charge for the gametime.

Just my two cents.

Re:pay-to-play?

[Captain Chaos]

I don't care for the idea of monthly fees either, especially when you already had to pay to buy the game. This is what kept me from buying Ultima Online and Everquest, I just couldn't see myself paying the monthly fee in addition to paying for the game.

I think another thing limiting their potential customer base is the lack of a demo. Whether it's even possible with this type of game I don't know, but currently it seems the only way to try it is to be fortunate enough to find out about the game before it's release and get into the beta test. I did this with The Realm, Ultima Online and Asheron's Call. The AC beta was the one that finally persuaded me to change my mind about fee based games. I got hooked during beta and ended up preordering it. I do wish you could just download the clients instead of having to pay for the game, even if it does include 1 free month. AC, EQ and The Realm were all downloads for the client during beta and UO was a $3 cd. A download or a small fee I think would attract more players and it also would help some with the lack of a demo since it would cost less to get started.

I have to disagree with the statement about not needing additional maintenance, at least in regards to AC. Other than the obvious costs such as servers, bandwidth, admins, etc as stated by previous posters, Turbine (the developer of AC) is still hard at work changing the gameworld. While UO got a 2nd edition and EQ has an addon coming out, Turbine is doing it differently and not making the players wait for a new edition of the game or an addon pack. They are doing monthly events that make a lot of changes to the game. They have added new quests, dungeons, armor, weapons, items, monsters, updated graphics, lighting, monster models, etc. I feel the way they are doing it really helps to justify the monthly fee as you don't have to pay again to buy another version of the game. Some of the updates can make drastic changes also, as shown at the end of beta when there was a comet on a collision path and meteors were crashing down with entire cities getting destroyed. Kind of a shame they don't really plan on events quite that drastic, it was a blast. :) Check out ACVault under the Event Specials heading on the left side if you'd like to check out what they have been doing with the events.

Re:pay-to-play?

[Captain Chaos]

I forgot to mention another game in my previous reply. The new online space combat sim Allegiance that should be on sale next month will allow you to run your own server according to the press release Microsoft issued about it going gold.

"Allegiance will be available in retail stores for an anticipated street price of US$40. Gamers can then choose to play on public-domain servers free of charge or access the Allegiance Zone, a subscription service that provides larger-scale games, special events, persistent scoring and rankings, and new exclusive content such as the Belters faction. Players are eligible for one free month on the Allegiance Zone ($9.95 value) with game purchase. The MSN Gaming Zone will host the Allegiance Zone as well as a continuously updated list of free game servers worldwide. The Allegiance Server Code will be also be made available as a free download to parties interested in hosting game servers."

I'm anxious to see how well this works out. It seems much more attractive only having to pay the monthly fee if you are interested in the extra benefits that it provides.

Re:pay-to-play?

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine having to pay $10-month for every online game you wanted to play?

Anyone getting the point here?

Re:pay-to-play?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think another thing limiting their potential customer base is the lack of a demo.

This point and points by previous posters about inappropriateness of paying for the game itself suggests an alternate approach. Of course it is the game developers' call, but if I was them, I would do the following:

• Make the game CD free. Stamp large amounts, and distribute through game and computer resellers.
  
• Offer two subscription models:
  • Free subscription. You get to connect and play for free, but all you are allowed to do is "possess" an NPC, like a bartender, shopkeeper or monster. This would have two benefits: people would have a chance to test-drive the game, and at the same time make the game much more interesting for paying players. Obviously, nobody wants to be the shopkeeper or the town whore; simple supply and demand suggests that role-playing these characters should be made free.
  • Paid subscription. You pay a monthly subscription, but you get to play a real hero just like in the currently offered service. Your experience is enriched by "real" NPCs driven by people who are testing the game. When those people see how cool it is to be a real player, they will switch to the paying model.

All this assumes that someone like EQ is actually interested in adding large numbers of new players. I bet they have their hands full as it is; if the architecture can't scale up, then the idea is not very feasible.

--ac

Re:pay-to-play?

[ronfar]

That story makes me think that the best way to package this kind of game is as part of a specialized ISP.

I mean as far as I can understand the main way AOL gets customers is by presenting itself as entertainment (plus Email and Internet). Well, that and the coasters it gives away.

If I were in charge of a MMRPG, I'd forget about selling the game or selling time, I'd just set up an ISP and tell people "to play game or games X you have to use our ISP."

Hey, when I was a kid, the only reason why I was interested in Compuserve (in those days we didn't use the Internet, Compuserve was just a big BBS) was because they had online games. I didn't get to play British Legends as much as I would have like, but I enjoyed the concept of playing Zork multiplayer....

But if not for that, I would've just used the cheap, local BBSs.

Re:pay-to-play?

[ronfar]

Ok, you sound like a knowledgable person about Asheron's Call so I have to ask this: Does the "social engineering" aspect of the game work to reduce the number of Twinks, PowerGamers and the like in the game, or not?

I remember when I was researching MMRPGs when I was interning for a company that was considering getting into the business, the social engineering aspect of AC seemed interesting. I wasn't sure if it was something that would really work in practice to prevent twinking, though. It seemed to be interesting in a theoretical sense.

I refer to the way people must gather retainers in order to amass power in AC.

Re:pay-to-play?

[EAVY]

Pay-to-Play is an issue that's very important to me. UltimaOnline & EverQuest are setting a precedent for massive-multiplayer-games, a dangerous precedent, since most types of games are moving towards that direction. Digital Extremes, who made Unreal Tournament with Epic Games, are working on such a game as well. Many more will certainly follow. Will we have to pay regular charges for all of those future games? They might be online-play only!

The obvious advantages for gamemakers are a steady income even after the game has been released, hardly any problems with warez (the game itself only works with a valid account), and full control over the game (central administration of the servers). They are in charge and charge the players.

Some say they should make the game free and only have us pay for the actual time we play. Charging full price for the game plus regular fees seems too excessive. But I tend to think that even charging for playing time only gets excessive. I like to compare that to the Internet itself. In Europe, we often have no flat rate access, we have to pay regular fees plus the time we're online. Now you can argue that ISP's need to maintain a lot of date and servers, take AOL as an example, but would you actually agree to have time-based pricing? To you, a flatrate might be as natural as breathing air for free, but it can be argued just as well! So for a lot of Europeans, we still would have to pay regular fees for phone bills, Internet access, plus online games - each costs just a bit, but the bits add up, so it simply becomes too expensive. That's why we, the consumers, should always try to move to fair flat rate access...

There's another thing, something a lot of people don't seem to consider at all, time and energy. That's money, too, and more important to an online game than regular charges could ever be. Players invest a lot of time and energy to play and have fun. Without other human players, any online game would suck, bots and NPCs can't substitute real people playing. By playing properly, you are having fun, and increasing the fun of the other players. That makes the game more fun and interesting, so people will play more, and more people will buy the game. A nice player is worth more than a fancy feature of the software. In the end, it's all about people, that's what matters. People who invest their time should be valued accordingly! Why don't players get paid? Instead of charging us, they should pay us... Especially since we don't really own our characters and property, it's virtual, stored on their servers. If they ever close shop, all my stuff will be gone, I can't just keep it. Combine that with the usual disclaimers and EULAs and you pay a lot for something that in the end will be nothing.

I see why they charge for upkeep and enhancements, but I also see why we could charge them for playing, so I believe this balances out and nobody should pay or charge. If they really need to make more money, they should place some ads in-game, in a way that makes sense and fits to the game. It's possible and would work just like it does with websites. Actually it could work even better if a company would have a virtual subsidiary inside the game world and you could stop by and buy stuff without leaving the game. Lots of possibilities.

Well, personally I'd love to play such a massive multiplayer game, but out of principle I won't pay for it as I just explained. I'll have to wait until a free one comes along. And I really hope it will be free as in speech as well, open-source so I know it will be reliable and can be kept compatible, we'd not risk losing our characters. Current projects like WorldForge look promising, but are still not ready, not yet. Let's wait and see what comes along...

Finally, something about game prices: A game like Unreal Tournament is cheap. Even if it would cost $100 or more, it would still be cheap. Its replayability is immense, and once you start getting tired of something, just download some mods or maps and it's all new and fresh again. I think that the actual game prices are too low but regular charges are too high. I wouldn't mind to pay $100 and get free play forever. I would mind paying nothing for the software but $10 per month. I own my copy of UT, but in a regular-fee-game, the software alone would be useless. Besides, I'd like to run my own server, for LAN games and such.

Speaking of that, this reminds me of an interesting idea I had: Don't run central servers on a few machines, run small clients on lots of PCs. Just like SETI@home, encrypt the date, and make it very redundant. If this is done properly, the small PCs would help out the few central servers, and load would get balanced accordingly. That combined with appropriate in-game advertisement should help pay the bills of our hosts.

There is always another way. They are only charging regular fees because people apparently pay. If nobody played and told them it's because of their pricing scheme, they would definitely change their mind. So far, they have no reason to consider a change, there are enough people who pay to play without thinking about it. It's a pitty, but I assume it will work out like it did with Internet access, first the high regular charges until times change and we see flatrate access coming up. Time shall tell...

Re:pay-to-play?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the case of EQ, they put a bandwidth cap that does not exist in UO or QII. So a faster connection does not mean a faster in game character. It will only allow you to recover from packet loss easier and be less likely to be booted off in the case of high lag times. I have a 512K DSL connection at my house and it is nice to have EQ parties. Get the friends together in RL and hook up to EQ and group.

Re:pay-to-play?

[Anonymous Coward]

the game/client outta be open source with some kind of rule checking thing. then, pay only for the 'service' part

Re:pay-to-play?

[sesquiped]

> rest assured that nothing more is going to happen with it

I just have to point out that the subspace community is the most resiliant group of gamers I have ever seen. Far from nothing happening, subspace is as active as ever, with tons of servers and tens of thousands of active players. New features are being added to the server exe's (thanks to a few brilliant assembly wizards) and people have created bots to automate events like elimination tournaments. There are usually several special events going on in a given week, not to mention the many leagues. There have even been several conventions where subspace players meet IRL for a weekend.

For more information, please visit:
http://www.subspacehq.com/

I don't mean to imply that what happened with subspace can, or should, happen with any other game. Undoubtedly, the game would have been better supported if VIE had been a little smarter about marketing. Also, nobody would contemplate making a MMPOG if they expected it to turn out like subspace and be totally user-run and make no money for the developers or publishers. But the subspace situation certainly proves that if players want something enough, they will get it, whether the company supports them or not.

BTW, I'm not sure if there ever was planned a "Subspace 2", but here's the current situation: The core developers of subspace (and an artist, I think) left VIE shortly before it fell apart and formed their own company, Harmless Games. Their current title, Infantry, is about as close to a Subspace 2 as you can get. Any subspace player will immediately see the heritage. Infantry is now in public beta test. You can find information or download it at http://www.infantryzone.com/

Re:pay-to-play?

[Bryce]

UltimaOnline & EverQuest are setting a precedent for massive-multiplayer-games, a dangerous precedent, since most types of games are moving towards that direction.

yup, and not only games. UO and EQ style game architectures and business models are helping establish and prove the concept of subscription-based computing. People have been trying to turn software into subscription-like services for many years (this is why few consumer-oriented file formats are forward-compatible, even though any moderately skilled programmer could figure out how to generalize the design of any file format such that it is both forwards and backwards compatible.) Imagine paying $15 for MS Linux, plus $10/month for the opportunity to download the latest upgrades via "DirectGet" and "SelectX".

The obvious advantages for gamemakers are a steady income even after the game has been released, hardly any problems with warez (the game itself only works with a valid account), and full control over the game (central administration of the servers).

Do not underestimate the expenses associated with running a game server. This issue at play here is freedom, not cost. You are not being given the trust, respect, and honesty of being able to fix and improve your game. You deserve these freedoms and should demand them so that they are aware that you value freedom.

You know that open games will be better games, be they commercial or not. By continuing to buy freedomless games one does a disservice to the game industry by further locking them into that out-moded way of creating games. Insist on only paying only for games that meet your price/performance/openness criteria, and make the ones that don't meet your criteria unavailable to yourself. Let your itch grow, or try to scratch it yourself.

Without other human players, any online game would suck, bots and NPCs can't substitute real people playing. By playing properly, you are having fun, and increasing the fun of the other players. That makes the game more fun and interesting, so people will play more, and more people will buy the game. A nice player is worth more than a fancy feature of the software. Why don't players get paid?

I find this a very profound insight, I hope you don't mind if I borrow it from you. I have always been of the mind that players both figuratively and literally "make the game", and are sometimes, ironically forgotten by game designers.

If they ever close shop, all my stuff will be gone, I can't just keep it.

Keep this desire in mind. I have a solution for this. *grin*

If they really need to make more money, they should place some ads in-game, in a way that makes sense and fits to the game. It's possible and would work just like it does with websites.

I have never seen an implementation of this that was not, IMHO, tacky. 'Amature', in my book, is okay. But gods how I hate 'tacky'. Advertising prior to or after the game would be acceptable, but players deserve to not have the consistency of their game broken with tackiness. Mobile is able to gain the benefits of advertising by sponsoring NOVA, without making Stephen Hawkings oil his chair.

But try turning your idea inside out. Instead of the advertising being inside the game, how about making the game being inside the advertising? I.e., Disney hosting your game for you, using their trademarked characters in the game?

Actually it could work even better if a company would have a virtual subsidiary inside the game world and you could stop by and buy stuff without leaving the game. Lots of possibilities.

Now, this sounds interesting... I would love to see mixes of reality and fiction like this in virtual worlds. VirtualMacy's, where you can shop for and purchase clothing or gifts, or find yourself drawn into a tragic three-way romance destined for heart break and disaster - unless perhaps you can win Caitlen's heart. (Think Macy's might pay a player to be Caitlen?)

Well, personally I'd love to play such a massive multiplayer game, but out of principle I won't pay for it as I just explained. I'll have to wait until a free one comes along.

Thank you, you are doing the Right Thing, and for the right reasons. And I'm joining you.

Current projects like WorldForge look promising, but are still not ready, not yet. Let's wait and see what comes along...

You would wait less if those projects had your help (they especially need coders and non-coders).

Speaking of that, this reminds me of an interesting idea I had: Don't run central servers on a few machines, run small clients on lots of PCs. Just like SETI@home, encrypt the date, and make it very redundant.

This is called "peer to peer" and has some troublesome security issues. But it's definitely worthwhile for some kinds of games. NetTrek uses this approach. (Check out the FreeTrek project.)

There is always another way. Amen. Lack of choice is a symptom of brain inflexibility.

Re:pay-to-play?

[stripes]

If I were in charge of a MMRPG, I'd forget about selling the game or selling time, I'd just set up an ISP and tell people "to play game or games X you have to use our ISP."

That will piss-off any potential customers that have a faster-then-dialup connection (cable modem, DSL, ISDN, FracT1...). It will also piss-off anyone that signs up and then has more trubble with "your" ISP then their old ISP. It will also piss off anyone who bought another ISP serice to play another MMRPG that required it.

Face it, most people allready intrested in most MMRPGs allready have an internet connection, and most people arn't that excited about changing it!

The closest I think you could get is to find an ISP who will roll the price into their service (or do one of those "virtual ISP deals" where you look like an ISP, but someone else does all the work), offer "free" service to anyone using that ISP, and charge anyone else a "modest" fee.

I do find the other idea in this thread intresting. Have the monthly fee, and a free version of the game, maybe a download-only, or a CD in shrinkwrap. You could still charge for a box with a printed manual and goodies, but make it free for people to start playing and paying the $10/month.

Not only would a good game get more customers, the customers could try the game for a far lower investment!

Re:pay-to-play?

[cmg]

Ad revenue for EQ inside EQ wouldn't help. Addicts have enough trouble keeping up with eating, much less visiting some website that takes them away from their virtual crack.

I always think these games should get their costs to just that of a CD and survive on only the monthly charge.

More info and date for LucasArts game

[RobotWisdom]

You guys are slipping! My weblog had Reuters' story about this last Thursday. (It says next year.)

Re:More info and date for LucasArts game

[ubertroll]

That's just two days, very quick in comparison. The "Scotch Tape Storage" story was a full year behind. And I'm not really sure I want to know what the Slashdot guys are doing all day instead of looking at the stories.

Re:More info and date for LucasArts game

[Nastard]

I was surfing around last night and spotted it. I didn't see any mention on /. so I submitted. The thing about people complaining of old stories, is that the stories come from us. If you think something is newsworthy, submit it. It may or may not get picked up, but at least you know you tried.

More to the subject, It took a little searching through the LucasFilm archives to find this, so it's not suprising that nobody else spotted it.

PS. They still haven't accepted my "Chewbacca is dead" story :(

Sony Online

[rickward]

I find it interesting that Lucas is partnering with Sony. Doesn't Fox (the studio that released the SW flicks) have an online entertainment/gaming division? And does this signal a keiretsu-style relationship between Lucasfilm and Sony where Sony becomes an important SW toy licensee? (I'd love to have a Sony lightsaber, myself...)

Re:Sony Online

[EvilDonut]

Apparently, Sony is planning some major multiplayer gaming network for their PSX2. A good guess would be that LucasArts is releasing the game for both PC and PSX2, and that it will support this network...

Re:Sony Online

[Cironian]

I'd love to have a Sony lightsaber, myself..

I suddenly get this weird mental image of an ad... A white hallway, a fallen robe with some burn marks, a familiar shadow on the wall... And the words "Its a Sony"

Re:Sony Online

[Anonymous Coward]

yes. they also already have deals/in the works with Sony for PSX/2 titles... its no big deal

This Is Good News For Mutli-Player Online Games

[mochaone]

Diversity in Multi-player online games is desperately needed. I don't have anything against RPG's but a change of pace is needed. I think the Star Wars franchise is an obvious choice and can be well exploited in a multi-player online setting. I've never personally played any of the Star Wars games but I'll keep an eye out for this. I'm wondering if this will be a PC release of PSX2, or perhaps a combination of both?

OLD NEWS

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, I saw this days ago. I like slashdot.org a lot, but its just about useless if you depend on it for current news. I am forced to use other sources, although I wish I didn't have too.

Re:OLD NEWS

[Anonymous Coward]

Truely not a flame but just out of curiosity don't you think it's a good idea to 'use other sources'?

Last time I looked the title on slashdot it read

"news for nurds"
NOT
"the ultimate only news for nurds"

btw/ tuesday is a particularly good day to search elsewhere for news because it is pretty hard to wade thru the troll dung inundating /. on tuesdays

Never again.

[Patton]

I played EQ for quite some time to 50th level character and 25th level character.

"Playing" is a misnomer. Its a job. An exercise in frustration. You have to sit for days to get a decent piece of equipment or buy it on Ebay. If you don't have that nice shiney equipment then people don't want you in their groups.

If their starwars is -anything- even remotely close to EQ it definitely isn't for me. I just have a bad time with any game where you sit for days waiting for an npc to spawn and still have to compete with 15 others to get that item. Or the joys of instantly dieing w/o any means of protecting yourself (Plane of Fear for example).

I cancelled my EQ account and swore hell would freeze over before I bought any game Veriant creates ever again.

Its still quite warm down there from what I've heard.

56K??

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet you will see this released on the Playstation II and their planned broadband network first...

I get dibs on Nerf Herder

[Squeeze Truck]

I always wanted to be a nerf herder in my own online universe. This is a dream come true.

Re:THOUGHTS

[Anonymous Coward]

Blizzard's Diablo 2 will be free, but information stored on their servers. Of course, players still create games and its max is 8 per game. Maybe they should reduce costs of the initial game to like $20 and have people pay quarterly a lesser rate than $10 a month.

Finally!

[spoonboy42]

This is what I and many other geeks have long been praying for! The Star Wars universe is the perfect setting for a massively multiplayer RPG. Just think of the romance of being a lone smuggler or bounty hunter, a heroic rebel, or a tyranical imperial governor. In a world populated by fantasy RPGs, it's about time for sci-fi to strike back!

Re:Finally!

[dotgpb]

This could be a very good game, if it is set in the right time period.

What time period will it be set in? I'm hoping it will be pre-Episode One, or Post-Episode 6. Running into Luke, Anakin, Leia, Chewbacca etc would be cool, but would get old real quick. If it is set during the Ep. 1 to Ep. 3 time period, I'll probably skip it due to possible spoilers. The best timeperiod would probably be either a hundred years or so before Anakin is born, or a few hundred years after the Empire is defeated. Avoiding having to deal with movie, comic, or novel plot details would most likely make for a better game.

Yup.

[Squeeze Truck]

I long for the glory days of 1977 when people still knew what it meant to roleplay, and the 12-year-old brats just tormented neighborhood pets.

That's the primary reason I stopped playing Ultima Online. That and overcrowding.

Hey, wait a minute...

[Kiz315]

...Maybe, just MAYBE Lucasfilm could team up with Paramount and make a Star Wars/Trek thing.

Oh, wait, I'm already part of something along those lines. And it's free. With no downloads (except for an IRC client if you don't have one, and that's optional) or purchase nessessary.

Anyway, the URL is http://www.sleepco.com/furcon/main.html (No, I don't know HTML...yet).

Hemos

[Anonymous Coward]

Wake up Hemos, the slashdot has you !

sorta OT, sorta not

[Pope]

Went to a store today to ask after a G4 (my sales guy was out, so I gotta wait til Monday) and saw Pod Racer on that sweet-ass Cinema Display. If you ever want to see something cool, Pod Racer runs in the CD's native resolution (1600x1024).
Ohhh lord do I wish I had one of those!

I hear Pod Racer's kinda lame, but it looks nice....

Pope

Prediction

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if a bunch of /.er's play this game, then there is going to be a whole sh*tload of naked statues in the Palace.

As for me, I'm going to play Johnny Cochrane, go to Endor to try to figure out something that just doesn't make any sense to me.

Re:Prediction

[Anonymous Coward]

LOOK AT THE MONKEY! LOOK AT THE CRAZY MONKEY!

First Massively Multiplayer Game

[a poor scribbler]

Massive RPGs:
A proven concept, but why
No open source ones?

Re:First Massively Multiplayer Game

[Anonymous Coward]

www.worldforge.org

Re:First Massively Multiplayer Game

[Anonymous Coward]

moron

it's not even close to the first MMORPG

besides muds, Ultima Online was really the first "big thing" in the mmorpg world

yes, there was M59 etc, but they didn't make as much of a bang

UO started the trend

Vague article...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, I saw THX and LucasArts up there, as well as Sony, so I'm assuming this thing will be graphical not text? But they don't say that explicitly.

And, HOW massively multi will it be? Are we talking a thound people online at once, or a million? or ten million? Granted they probably wouldn't know what their hardware can do yet (if they've even bought it yet) but what are they aiming for? I've been in MUDs with a hundred people.... Is this going to be like a big giant MUD, or more like a global village?

And most importantly, they didn't mention support for linux, and there's no way in hell wIn98 is going to run on MY millenium falcon.

Re:Vague article...

[Anonymous Coward]

How many people is Massively Multiplayer?
Well, considering how SEGA has just released 10six, where you play online with 999,999 of your friends, I don't see any reason why a SW game could approach those numbers a year from now.

Keep in mind that while 10six is *massive* in it's multiplayer aspect, you don't (at least in the beta version I played) bump into 200 people every time you take a walk.

Re:Vague article...

[EvilDonut]

And most importantly, they didn't mention support for linux, and there's no way in hell wIn98 is going to run on MY millenium falcon. Considering how often the Falcon malfunctions, Win98 would be the best choice of OS to get the right "feel". Heh.

Different from your normal RPG

[Webmonger]

One of the biggest differences between the SW universe and your standard fantasy universes is there's a war on.

Players will probably get to choose Alliance, Empire or Rogue instead of Good/Evil/Neutral. How long will the war last? Will Alliance/Empire players have to deal with a military hierarchy? And what does it feel like to be an ace pilot on the losing side?

Whatever it is, I'm sure it'll be different to have some high drama. Probably the Generals will be NPCs, though.

they do... but...

[Forrestina]

of course they do, but they havn't had time yet, because they're scrambling around looking for their deoderant :)

-------

Jedi Knights...

[RoLlEr_CoAsTeR]

To make it Jedicentric would disembowel a potentially rich and diverse universe.

I would think that to become a jedi knight would be a feat that would require much working up through the ranks, and much skill/test of knowledge, etc. I'm going to assume that somehow, somewhere, they'll have a Jedi who can initiate/train other Jedi, (because you've got to get your example of Jedi-ship from somewhere) but I obviously don't know how they'll choose that person.
Maybe, as my first thought was, they'll have one of the creators begin the game a a Jedi,and, over time and as worthy individuals arise, new Jedi will emerge, and then the original can either continue or, if so chosen, retire from the position/die (if they have other things to do besides continue the game, etc...)
Anyways, it's an interesting idea. Kudos if they get it working well.

Re:Jedi Knights...

[Zan Thrax]

Set the game shortly after Luke started his school, so there's one Jedi master around, and a bunch of students when the server starts up. (Naturally, the starting students gain skill, and after a certain amount of game time, head off to find recruits of their own to train)

I smell a rat

[Travoltus]

(I didn't see anyone addressing this, but if it's redundant, c'est la vie.)

I haven't seen anyone discussing this, but I personally would avoid this game if I have to pay to play.

When you buy a copy of Quake 3 Arena, you get to play for free, notwithstanding the cost of your ISP account. No monthly charges are assessed by id for jumping onto a Q3A server.

When you buy a copy of Everquest, you wind up paying these guys monthly in order to keep your access to the game. I don't like that trend at all, and I won't feed it with my dollars.

Of course, everyone else is free to feed it, but remember, if you do, everyone is going to be encouraged to do it that way. This'll ensure the runaway spread of "monthly-pay-per-play" across the whole online RPG market of the future, and perhaps it may even spread to the FPS arena.

Do you know how expensive for you that such a thing would be?
========================
63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs,
ya get 1 whacked with a service pack,

Re:I smell a rat

[Sundiata]

I challenge you to find a group of users who would be willing and financially able to buy and maintain the kind of server environment necessary to host and run a massively multiplayer online game. We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of computers alone; not to mention the additional monthly cost of an OC3 line or three (or faster) running to your center, the tech staff required to run and maintain the servers, the game staff required to keep the game world from sinking into a mess of blithering spamming idiots that drive everybody else away from the game, and the development staff needed to constantly tweak, patch, and bug fix the bloody thing. Sound like something you and your buddies are up for?

Are you outraged that you pay a monthly subscription for cable? Internet access? Car insurance? Electricity? Gas? Does it seem to you that all you should really have to pay for is the wires they hook up to your house? Or do you have some understanding of the fact that these companies need a constant flow of money to continue providing you with the services you want? Had it ever occured to you that the very same example just might hold true in the case of a massively multiplayer online game?

By the way, Quake 3 isn't a Massively Multiplayer Online Game. It's essentially Doom with a nice little directory server built in so you can find plenty of net games easily. There's no need for a game server to be up 24/7, and you'll get the exact same gameplay if you log on under a different name or on a different server. Game #427 for you is no different from game #591; start at zero, frag, maybe cap a flag or two, tally up the scores at the end. Repeat. Q3 is a multiplayer online game, but the only thing "massive" about it is that there are tons of little nobody game servers out there.

Re:I smell a rat

[Travoltus]

I would be outraged to have to pay monthly fees for every online game I want to play - which is a lot! So your 'cable' and 'car insurance' analogies don't hold.

As for maintaining a Massively Multiplayer server, people do it all the time with smaller scale FPS and RPG servers. I counted over 3000 Half Life servers just today. Most empty.

Imagine if the admins of some of those empty servers got together ...
========================
63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs,
ya get 1 whacked with a service pack,

Re:Basic Faulty Premise with the Saga...

[Anonymous Coward]

hey jew queen, youre late for your date with the oven

2 Ways It Could Turn Out

[GeekLife.com]

Ultima Online problem:
Everyone'll want to be Luke Skywalker, or Han Solo. But for the Star Wars universe to work at all there have to be hundreds manning all those market stores in Tatooine, and pushing those buttons on the Death Star.

EverQuest problem:
I can see a group of players spending hours standing around the Sand People respawn point, just waiting to bonk some uglies with their light sabers so they get another pixel added to their XP bar.

Even in the Star Wars universe I don't want to pay a subscription fee to have the equivalent of a service industry job.

Sony

[AbsoluteMatter]

This game seems really awesome, I can say from experiance Star Wars RPG may not be the most in depth, but they are really fun. People don't base their lives around Star Wars RPGs like they do AD&D (not that thats really bad...). But aside from all that, didn't anyone else notice Sony's President is named Lisa Simpson? -Absy

Oh great , were going to have 1000 luke skywalkers

[Anonymous Coward]

Death Star Fizzels

Death Star Fizzels

Death Star Fizzels

Death Star Fizzels

Death Star Fizzels

Death Star Fizzels

P>Death Star hits earth for 1000 damage

You may not like it

[jjr]

You may not like pay-to-play but
you Don't have buy it
you have that choice


http://theotherside.com/dvd/

Just Call It Starcraft

[Anonymous Coward]

I have some friends beta testing another StarWars game that is supposedly just like Starcraft... Please don't tell me they are just taking other games and StarWar'ifying them.

Download this

[fastpage]

If you play Everquest go download ShowEQ.

The Ecology of MMP

[Robert Link]

This is exactly the problem that MMP games have had so much difficulty dealing with. If you make 90% of the population inkeepers and bartenders and other such drones, then the game is only fun for the few that get to be heroes. On the other hand, if you make everyone a hero, then the ecology and the economy of the game world get completely unbalanced. Treasure becomes meaningless because you can always find someone who has an extra sword of flaming doom that he's willing to sell, and once you've bought it, good luck finding any monsters to kill with it. They've all been wiped out by the plague of heroes swarming over the land.

None of the currently operating MMP RPGs has found a completely satisfactory solution to the problem, and it may be that none exists. One thing that would help a lot would be to have death be for keeps. As it stands, whenever the monsters manage to take down a player character, it is an empty victory at best; he'll be back within minutes, perhaps with a slight XP penalty, perhaps without some of his equipment, but nevertheless largely unscathed. However, most players seem to resist the idea of death being deadly pretty fervently, so don't expect to see it any time soon.

Call me a fuddy-duddy, or whatever you will, but I don't have a lot of confidence that MMP games will ever "get there" as far as capturing the RPG experience. There is an editorial at Games Domain that sums it up pretty well. When I play an RPG I want to have at least an opportunity to have a meaningful impact on the campaign world; however, in any campaign world few people have that opportunity. In a game with only half a dozen players, the deck is stacked in your favor; by design you get to play the characters that have a chance to make a difference. In MMP games there are simply too many players for that to be practical. The result is stagnation and boredom, which isn't really what I look for in a game. So, here's hoping they get it right with this one, but I'm not holding my breath.

-rpl

Re:The Ecology of MMP

[Zan Thrax]

Now, I for one don't see why 90% of the PC population shouldn't be heroic (or aspiring-to-be-heroic). As long as there are 90 NPC norms for every badass PC, there shouldn't be any real problem. It also lends itself well to the basis for player distribution around the world. If you have 10,000 players, then you need 1,000,000 NPCs, which tells you how much world space you need to have for such a population to be reasonable. That's probably going to be something on the order of western europe I'd say. (Anyone know any population numbers in different midieval centuries?) Pretty damned big for characters who shouldn't have any faster transport than horses, or maybe coastal ships. (Assuming a fantasy setting). Different settings / time periods would dictate different population ratios. In a Star Wars style game (lots & lots of planets with billions of people each instead of a few cities with maybe a hundred thousand each) you might want 1,000,000,000 NPCs per 10,000 PCs.

Re:The Ecology of MMP

[|guillaume|]

If you have 10,000 players, then you need 1,000,000 NPCs

Then, I don't really see the point of making this a multiplayer game, if just one out of a hundred other characters is a real player. You could play for hours before meeting someone "real".

---
guillaume

Re:The Ecology of MMP

[Zan Thrax]

Well, if you meet someone else who runs around the forests & dungeons and whatnot, they're a PC. You can't expect to have all the boring townspeople be PC's can you? Who in there right mind wants to spend money & time role playing a cloth merchant or the town drunk? Or the town's cheapest whore?

Re:The Ecology of MMP

[Anonymous Coward]

(Anyone know any population numbers in different midieval centuries?)

Before The Black Death there were approximately 100 million inhabitants in Europe.

Re:The Ecology of MMP

[Robert Link]

I agree, fleshing out the gameworld with NPC ords is not difficult at all. The hard part is providing enough adventure for 10,000 (or, worse, 100,000!) PCs. There's only one death star to blow up, only one evil henchman to the Emperor, only one student of the jedi master, and so on. Most of your PCs are going to be a lot closer to "Many Bothans died to bring us this information" than they are to "Great shot, kid, that was one in a million."

Think back to any face-to-face rpg you played in, or good fantasy novel you read. For a single (say, Greyhawk-sized) continent, within the course of, say, a year of game time you probably encountered something like:

• half a dozen PCs.
  
• half a dozen henchmen.
  
• two dozen major NPCs (rulers of major kingdoms, high priests of important religions, powerful wizards, PCs' mentors, etc.)
  
• a dozen recurring villains.
  
• a dozen gods, legendary heroes, and other personages of distinction.
  

And that's pretty much it for the people who really move earth and heaven; everyone else is just part of the backdrop. Even being generous with the numbers, I doubt they top 100, and even at that most of those roles are arguably unsuitable to be filled by any but the most experienced PCs. How do you scale that up to tens of thousands of PCs? I'm not saying it can't be done, but the simple approaches have been tried, and (IMO) they just don't work. In EverQuest there aren't enough monsters to go around. In Ultima Online you sit around baking bread all day. In neither game is anything resembling high fantasy a regular part of most players' gaming experience.

Give me peasant revolts. Give me evil priests whose dark rituals must be stopped before they unleash a demon horde across the countryside. Give me plots, schemes, dragons, and the stuff legends are made of, but whatever you do, don't give me "kill monsters so you can gain experience and gear so that you can kill bigger monsters and gain more experience and better gear, so that..." ad nauseum. Don't give me anything that reeks of the real, mundane world because I get plenty of that on a daily basis thankyouverymuch.

I wanted the feeling of romance and the sense of wonder I had known as a kid. I wanted the world to be what they promised me it would be, instead of the tawdry, lousy, fouled up mess it is. --Oscar Gordon, hero

-rpl (not a hero, but likes to pretend occasionally)

Who knew?

[cybercuzco]

"Star Wars online will be a phenomenon that transforms online gaming for both gamers and casual game players," says Lisa Simpson, president of Sony Online Entertainment.

Hmm, I guess this means that Lisa is no longer on Fox, and has decided to stop doing the Simpsons sitcom. Fox officials said that they were sorry to see her leave the show, but at 18, she was no longer the little girl that america fell in love with. I know that ill be sorry to see her leave, but this just means maggie has to step up. ;-)

Lookee here

[*borktheork*]

There was a project called Altima, which was meant to clone Ultima Online, I believe. But they seemed to have teamed up with some other folks to create a generic engine. Open Sourced, of course.

http://www.worldforge.org

The engine looks good and the graphics look great. Go help them out, if you feel so inclined...

Re:Lookee here

[Bryce]

There was a project called Altima, which was meant to clone Ultima Online, I believe. But they seemed to have teamed up with some other folks to create a generic engine. Open Sourced, of course.

Altima never died, but instead reevaluated, refocused, and renamed to WorldForge. We were coming up with ideas that were much more ambitious than a simple UO cloning effort. The team composition and skills were more appropriate to doing original work than making copies. Of course, this meant it would take longer, but the team really seemed to resonate with envelope pushing.

Probably we ought to be putting out more announcements here on Slashdot but this site only seems to mention in-development games if they are closed source, so we may have to wait a bit. If you'd like to track our progress, send an email to announce-subscribe@worldforge.org.

The engine looks good and the graphics look great.

Thanks! The multi-disciplinary nature of game development is tough for typical free software development approaches, but we've hacked our project organization to handle this I think. We'll be putting out a few quickee games (not "massive") to demo art and technologies as we go. Bryce P.S., sorry the website's down. We're suspecting foul play...

Uhhh, Hemos

[Claude Debussy]

"LucasArts announced that they will be partnering with Sony and Verant (the guys who
brought us EverQuest) to bring us a massive multiplayer RPG based upon the Star Wars universe. The article
doesn't give any dates, but I'm sure we're all gonna be in line for this one. "

I will not be in line for this one, Unless they have a Linux version.. because all I need these days is Linux.. if they dont have a linux version then I dont need their game. So fuck em, cus i know they aren't going to make a linux version. fuck em

Re:Uhhh, Hemos

[Mike Hicks]

I second that!
--
Ski-U-Mah!
Stop the MPAA

Re:Make your browser window as wide as your asshol

[Anonymous Coward]

That anti aliasing in the ascii was quite nice. Especially how you bolded some central letters. Quite the work of art.

Congratulations!

Fuckin' Cryptonomicon

[Anonymous Coward]

Now every nerd thinks he's some kind of poet.

New Rumor.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Playing the part of Anakin Skywalker, a covetted roll for this new online game. a roll who people such as Leonardo DiCaprio and Joshua Jackson have tried out for is Lord British. thats right on this new Online Star Wars game Lord British will be Darth Vader!

Ok on a serious note. I don't think I'll ever play EQ or BG, or AC or even this new Star Wars thing. For the simple fact that was mentioned above. When people have to pay for something monthly they get greedy. I mean having to buy EQ equipment on ebay thats _SAD_ for the person who is sell and the person who is buying. Online games are about friendships not about making money. For the players that is.. obviously Lucas and Sony will make a pretty penny off this venture. I just hope they don't decide to come after their text based brothers and sisters on Starwars based muds and mushes.

Since when is Star Wars sci-fi??

[KGBear]

Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars, but it's not really hard-core sci-fi by a a long shot! It's fantasy disguised as sci-fi. The Force is just magic in disguise, there are monsters disguised as alien species, ewoks look a lot like munchkins. Fighters, star destroyers and blasters make noise in the vacuum of space; we're supposed to believe a lot of advanced space-faring societies will revert to monarchy; with all the high tech stuff around the weapon of choice is the sword! The list is endless...

Re:Since when is Star Wars sci-fi??

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't understand the Star Wars universe very well. Ships make noise in space because no one wants to watch a space scene devoid of sound. I mean really, do you want to see a Movie were the Millinium Falcon is racing through space and there is no sound because there is no sound in space. I don't... Next, most of the Space-faring societies in Star Wars are not monarchies. Sure it is Princess Leia... But guess what the Republic... It is a republic.. ???????????? I don't think republic == monarchy... As for the weapon of choice being a sword... I don't think so.. Only Jedi have the skills nessicary to effectively use a Light Saber in battle. And do you even know what those things can do? If I was a Jedi I would never go anywhere without my light saber.. I would want to be able to get out my "sword" and cut through metal bulkheads and deflect laser fire, Heck they cut through almost anything...

Re:Since when is Star Wars sci-fi??

[KGBear]

Quite the contrary, I do understand the star wars universe. All I'm saying is its not hard-core sci-fi. I didn't say most of the societies, I said a lot of societies. Besides Princess Leia there's Queen Amigdala. That's two out of 4-5 societies we're shown. That's got to represent a lot of societies throughout the galaxy. No, I don't want to see the Millenium Falcon racing noiselessy through space, but that isn't sci-fi. Now, the Discovery *does* glide without a sound in 2001: A Space Odissey, but then 2001 is not space-western and certainly not fantasy. I'd also like to have a light saber, but let's be serious: even now war is less and less about contact-fighting and more and more about remote control button pushing. What I mean is the Star Wars universe is a lot of fun, but it's not based in the laws of physics of the real universe. That makes it fantasy, not sci-fi.

Re:Since when is Star Wars sci-fi??

[Anonymous Coward]

Well this statement was much clearer than your first. Queen Amigdala however was an ELECTED leader. So not understanding the political nature of Naboo I would say they have something like a democratic monarchy.

Re:Since when is Star Wars sci-fi??

[spoonboy42]

You're absolutely right. While hard-core SF is my preference, I've always loved Star Wars, mainly because it's very, very good Fantasy/Adventure in a neat SF setting.

Port to PSX2 & Mac.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, since they are porting EQ to the Playstation 2, I would hazard a BIG yes on that question. As for Macintosh, probably NOT, since Verant are all against porting crap to other platforms. The ONLY reason they are making ports to the PLAYSTATION 2 is because Verant is OWNED by SONY, who MAKES the PLAYSTATION 2.

Makes sense to me.

An online RPG with a GM

[Gilligan]

Saw an review in PCGamer about a game that actually has a game master / dungeon master controlling everything as it happens. The player interface was all graphical, but the GM interface looked too good to be true. The GM can control everything, including the weather at the touch of a button and place a hoard of trolls at a moments notice right around the corner from Sir Bubblebutt that is being a total jackass. Kinda cool. Can't remember the name...brain fart.:- )

Re:An online RPG with a GM

[JDevers]

It was most likely Neverwinter Nights.

Re:An online RPG with a GM

[Anonymous Coward]

It is called Vampire: The Masquerade/Redemption. It looks to be a very cool game(provided you have a good GM, of course). In the PCGamer article, one guy(was it Wolf?) went to the game company's HQ and played a game with an employee as a GM and another employee as a fellow character. All of the interactions(i.e. quest startups) are done by the GM. He/She can see everything that is happening. For instance, to use Gilligan's example, maybe Sir Bubblebutt can be struck down by lightning at the touch of a button. Also, I'd just like to say that not all young people are jerks. I'm 15 and pouring hot grits down my pants doesn't appeal to me.

Those other 99% are just background.

[TheDullBlade]

The shopkeepers, the miners, the staff officers, bureaucrats, and various other varieties of drudge should not be players. You don't interact with them in meaningful (i.e. non-mechanical) ways, anyhow.

It's the bounty hunters, ambitious military officers, rebel agents, etc. that are the fun roles to play, and the people you want to be unpredictable allies or opponents.

If you don't fill out the worlds with simulated normal, boring people, there is no sense of reality.

Don't worry about not meeting them, your common interests will draw you to each other.

Re:Those other 99% are just background.

[Glytch]

>It's the bounty hunters, ambitious military
>officers, rebel agents, etc. that are the fun
>roles to play, and the people you want to
>be unpredictable allies or opponents.
Agreed, and there are other types of SW roles that would be fun. Personally, I'd like to be a mercenary spy. That would be pretty interesting. Maybe give spies the ability to use limited abilities from a lot of other classes so that they can impersonate others.

Hint, hint, Lucasarts. :)

Star Wars RPGs

[Mur!]

You know, there are already a number of Star Wars based online RPG games that have been around for a number of years. Just because an RPG isn't graphical, doesn't make it any less of an enjoyable role playing experience. Some of the Star Wars MUSHes are some of the best MUSHes out there, with great role play. Though I haven't played on any of the big online RPGs, I would venture a guess that the level of role-playing is minimal, due to the constraints that a graphical interface is going to present. While, when your interface is plain text, the roleplay often approaches literary levels, and the world immersion (I think) is far more intense.

Mur!
Jacinda@ChivalryMUSH

Re:Star Wars RPGs

[InkDancer]

While I expect the Verant version of Star Wars to be more akin to a MUD (Hack n' slash) than a MUSH (Roleplay orientated) there are plenty of Star Wars MUSHes out there for those who are more interested in the story aspect of the Star Wars than waiting around for the Obi-Wan respawn so you can kill him and get the +3 Force cloak.

The Star Wars MUSH website is here

Are they going to sell it on DVD...or floppies

[Anonymous Coward]

Well since Lucas is trying to save magnetic media by not selling SW on DVD, I imagine the game will come on 100 floppies or a 1 gig 8m backup tape.

Worldforge

[Kalana]

Thanks for the mention. Unfortunately, our web site is down at the moment. Altima changed its name to Worldforge in order to better reflect its goal, basically: "To create an Open Source MMORPG". This involves many subgoals, including art, music, clients, servers, content creation tools, rules, game systems, etc. Some of our objectives are:

• Openness: It's free software, so that's a given. It's a good thing in itself, and also adds to the player experience. How many times have you heard "Oh, $GAME is great, except..." or "If I was $GAMECOMPANY, I'd..."? If it was open source, you (or someone else) could fix it, try it out, and try to convince other GMs to use your changes. But I don't need to convince slashdot of the benefits of free software.
• Flexibility: You aren't stuck to a certain platform or type of game. We intend to have clients of as many types (currently we're working on 3D, 2D iso, and text) for as many platforms as possible (and of course, you can write your own), and the ability for GMs to easily design their own world and rules, and combine and modify existing worlds.
• Accessibility: We want the barrier of entry for both DM'ing and playing low. You won't need the latest and greatest 3D card, processor, or OS to play (of course, if you do have them, it'll be faster and prettier), and you won't have to have a T3 and know how to code to run a server (but you might nto be able to support 50,000 players). Got DSL, a PII, and know a reasonable amount about computers? You can run a server.
• And much more. The thing about a project with this broad a scope, and with so many people involved, is that everyone has different goals, skills, and interests, and still work together to achieve our common goals.

Just so nobody misunderstands me, this is all heavily in development. This means you can't play yet.

If this interests you, and you want to help make it happen, hit the web page (when it's back up), or join us on irc at irc.worldforge.org. BTW, you don't have to be a master hacker to help out. There are plenty of non-coding things to do, such as graphics, music, writing, and coordination work, and there's always room for enthusiatic newbies to learn by doing.

Re:Worldforge

[Evangelion]

Openness: It's free software, so that's a given. It's a good thing in itself, and also adds to the player experience. How many times have you heard "Oh, $GAME is great, except..." or "If I was $GAMECOMPANY, I'd..."? If it was open source, you (or someone else) could fix it, try it out, and try to convince other GMs to use your changes. But I don't need to convince slashdot of the benefits of free software.

The problem is, is in a situation like an online RPG, that's a phantom benifit - even if you do make your changes, it's a monumental amount of work to a) get *anyone* other than a select few of your friends to play your variation and b) you have to either somehow get your changes merged into the main tree, or spend the rest of your natural life maintaining your own branch, and mergeing in changes from the main tree.

Re:Worldforge

[Bryce]

The problem is... even if you do make your changes, it's a monumental amount of work to a) get *anyone* other than a select few of your friends to play your variation and b) you have to either somehow get your changes merged into the main tree, or spend the rest of your natural life maintaining your own branch, and mergeing in changes from the main tree.

Very valid and astute concerns. Keep them in mind and hold us (WorldForge) to providing you a solution to this problem.

There are many, many projects which have creatively solved the user-customization problem. We have many precidents to choose from. Scripting, world/engine separation, or well designed modular interfaces, for instance. (We are currently exploring all three of these. Can you think of more solutions we could try?)

Re:Worldforge

[Kalana]

To address a, there are hundreds of text MU*s (most of whose licenses are essentially source-available, free for non-commercial use) with more than a few players, and there's no reason to believe that it'd be any different with an open source MMORPG.

To address b: Yes, I agree that this can happen, and we're trying to avoid that. We want to make GM customization as easy as possible, while at the same time avoiding bloat.

One thing we're doing is trying to keep most of the things a user would like to change (like mechanics and world issues) out of the core server, and make it modular, so people who write "WF modules" (for lack of a better term) for things like this don't have to fork anything, and can distribute their modules independantly. Some of us have thought about module distribution schemes (think CPAN, rpmfind), but that's something for the future (our project leader, Bryce, wrote a nice little article about it, and I'd dig it up if the website wasn't down).

Another way to do this is to make the common things configurable without even looking at code. It's good style in general not to hardcode things, and there's a pile of things that don't need to be, such as PK/no PK, the length of a day, classes, etc.

We also want the clients to be flexible enough to adapt to different games transparently to the user (a lot of this will be taken care of by having a separate media distribution server).

If you've got any more ideas about this, we'd love to hear them. It'd probably be better email me, or subscribe to the worldforge mailing lists, though, since I don't think the rest of slashdot's interested in this anymore.

EQ Burnout?

[Jia]

Far be it from me to start a flamewar, but it seems to me that you might be experiencing EQ burnout and therefore giving EverQuest a harsh representation.

My experience with EverQuest has been pretty positive. I started beta testing for the game a little bit over a year ago and continued to play it past the release for six months. During that time, I played a variety of characters up to level 20.

If you yourself played EQ long enough to build up a 50th level (highest level possible for you people who don't play the game) and 25th level character, then something must have brought you back to the game night after night.

Both the best and worst part about EverQuest is its addictiveness. It's been called "EverCrack", a name that suits it pretty well. I remember when I was in the high point of my addiction cycle I would stay up into the wee hours of the morning questing with friends. March 16th was EverQuest's one year anniversary and according to EQ Vault, they hit their 200,000 active subscribers mark. Obviously, despite all the people who have quit the game to its negative aspects (camping, large time investment, ebay item farmers), a large number still remain faithful to the game.

In my opinion, Verant Interactive is the best developer of massively multiplayer online games currently out there. EverQuest easily dominates over its competition. While Ultima Online was created first and Asheron's Call offers some innovative features, both lack the customer service and addictive quality that make a truly good online game stand out. One of the reasons I quit EQ was to beta test for Asheron's Call, which I highly regret doing now. Despite being the newest online RPG on the market, the game was poorly developed and rushed prematurely to meet the holiday season. How typical of M$. However, Verant's game design and customer policies allow me to rank it high amongst game developers, almost equaling Blizzard. My advice to all you Star Wars fanatics out there is to keep your eye out for news of when Verant will begin accepting applicants for their beta test and book your spot.

On a side note, The Ruins of Kunark, a expansion to EverQuest is due to be release next month. I'm planning on buying it to begin my relaunching into the world of Norrath.

I thank you for your sweetly faked attention.
~ Kurt Vonnegut, Timequake

Re:EQ Burnout?

[Patton]

No flame taken ;) I realize that is one of the first things anyone who still likes EQ would say. Almost word for word.

Now have to realize something about me... I played (and still play) the same text based mud after 7 years. Thats a long time. I don't burn out all that easily on stuff. I stayed with EQ despite all my problems with it in hopes that it would get better. I tend to just have a knack for these type of games, hence the high levels in rather short amount of time (I played less than 8 months. Compare that to the 7 years on a text only mud. Drop in the bucket.)

Quests in EQ are Fed-Ex quests. Go get this at point A (and always at point A) take it to person at B then maybe take something to C. Or gather several packages and make a delivery back to the requester. Now ok I can deal with that, it just doesn't act as a interest keeper. It becomes a means to an ends (getting stuff/xp/etc). However when you sit for hours trying to get X and find out it only spawns every 72 hours and that 3 guilds need it for their quest stuff... well excuse me but the sheer competition for that item makes it rather unfeasible to me. So ok I have a choice I can get item that I don't need and trade someone. Maybe, if the item isn't NODROP/NOTRADE/etc. That isn't questing. That is an exercise in patience. Which in itself is fine but after reading the third novel... well I was running out of books I really wanted to read. Time to move to a new game.

Now EQ did do some stuff that people have to give it credit for -however- they did lot of stuff wrong IMO. Eight months is a long time in terms of computer games to play same thing every night/every other nite. However its nothing when you compare it to the 7 years I spent on a text predessor to it (and let me be first to say the mud I play on... well the admins screw the pooch pretty damn often) which is pretty well run in comparison to EQ.

I had problems with the guides. I had problems with the camping. I had problems with being forced to rely on others for all item/xp gains as the levels went up. I had problems with quests. I had problems with the sheer volume of people in the small size area (and no I don't honestly believe that their "expansion" will fix that).

I was on one of the new servers. About 1500 per night peak. Waiting list of 18 people to join a group at every single location that my level could get Xps.

Enjoy it all you like but realize I have lot of valid reasons to never again buy their products.

I lasted as long as I did for a very basic reason: I refused to not give it a fair shake.

Not because I particularly liked those 8 months.

actually she petrifies him if you think about it.

[Darby]

EOF
---CONFLICT!!---

It'll Succeed, Greed Does

[Anonymous Coward]

Frankly, the combination of Sony and Lucas scares me. They are the most paranoic, selfish, money grubbing pair I can imagine.

Lucas wouldn't release on DVD, and Sony continually comes up with proprietary solutions.

Verant is the talent in the mix, the rest just control IP, that's intellectual property, an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

What I do like about the project, will be the fact Sony and Lucas will be facing up to interactivity... nearly a first I would have thought.

Re:Make your browser window as wide as your asshol

[Anonymous Coward]

Just Testing

A letter from the year 2002

[Travoltus]

Dear Travoltus:

Hi, it's me. Travoltus. 2002 edition, that is. I just wanted to inform you that last year, I met this wonderful girl named Matilda on Lucasarts' Star Wars Online (SWO), and now we're getting married.

Yup. We met while standing in line at the Rebel Academy with 200000 other players. I picked the highly ignored Han Solo and she picked Princess Leia (she was the first female player in the game, hehe). Everyone else was battling it out to be - you guessed it - Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader.

Matilda fell in love with the way I slaughtered that entire ewok race right off the forest moon of Endor, but after my single handed annihilation of Jar Jar Binks and the Gungan species, she totally wanted muh bod. We had some sizzling hot virtual sex and, well, the rest is history :)

BTW, since this is the first marriage between two Star Wars Online players, George Lucas gave away the bride. I looked good in my Han Solo uniform, and Matilda, well, that dress, oooeeeeeeeeeowwwwwwwwwwwww baby! The downside was we were married by a 6' tall guy in a Yoda suit, who spent more time laughing than actually joining us in holy matrimony. The upside is we both got special edition copies of all 4 Star Wars movies, including The Phandom Menace: The Jar Jar-Free Edition - on DVD! (Oh and don't tell anyone we got this stuff on DVD, Lucas made us sign a shut-up agreement...)

Matilda and I are expecting a little jedi in 5 months. You keep hanging on out there in the past, ok Travoltus? And please.. get the game!

Death to the Gungans!
- Travoltus

========================
63,000 bugs in the code, 63,000 bugs,
ya get 1 whacked with a service pack,

The first hour is free....

[medcalf]

This will be more addictive than crack.

I think we'll run into a little problem, though

[NoWhere Man]

"...bring us a massive multiplayer RPG based upon the Star Wars universe."

How many people are going to be fighting over who plays which character? COuld you imagine if they brought this for multiplayer over the internet? Youd have tons of people fighting over who should be Darth Maul, who would make a better Darth Maul, whether or not there can be 2 Darth Maul's.

If they were smart about this, they would create a StarWarsNet and have people log on to the net and exist as a character. Have one big StarWarsNet for everybody around the world. (Okay I know big bucks, big up keep, but you gotta admit it'd be damned popular).
But it'd be also cool if you could RPG with separate servers. People create their own universes. But the the StarWarsNet idea, no matter where you go in the star wars universe, you carry everything with you; instead of starting from scratch every time you log on or creating different characters depending on the server.
The possiblilities of a MULTIPLAYER RPG are endless if not very complicated. If they pull it off though, think of how easy it would be to keep adding new features to the universe. One planet suddenly becomes populated, one star destroyer suddenly gets built, while another gets destroyed; making some territories easier to live and worse in others.
With single player RPG's not much changes, territory remains the same, maybe the occasional elf might come up to annoy you. But not much. But alot can chnage in this game cause everybody is doing something. Hell you could be on your way to a planet, with pratically no fuel, hopeing to land there (cause its your only hope)...then Darth Vadar comes along and blow it up (Or some other character who happens to gain control or build his own Death Star).

One thing is for sure they're going to have to find some way to keep track of everyone's individual characters or all hell is going to break loose!

That would be a Very Bad Thing(tm)

[Rix]

The biggest problem these games have is the throngs of children annoying everyone. They should try to make it less available to that crowd, not more.
Cheers,

Rick Kirkland

I Want My CthulhuPunk 3D MMORPG

[boneshintai]

Vis. players get munched if they try something silly like camping or soloing to get a good weapon. Call of Cthulhu is set in modern times (no FLaming Swords of Llama Smiting here, just a handgun). Seriously Paranoid setting, and for good reason -- the Elder Gods aren't user friendly.

And it'd be cool to see Cthulhu in 3D.

gee, what does this sound like??

[Anonymous Coward]

does anyone remember the game called netrek?? this sounds a lot like that, just all grown up. MAN that was a fun game. This is dating back like 6 years now. Back when Mosiac was the crem-de-la-crop and netscape was just a dream. Back when www. prefixes were pretty rare. Wow I feel old. =)

Remember the fate of MEO...

[unclei]

Every time I hear about a new MMORPG based on popular fiction, I start to wonder about how the developers are going to mess it up. Anybody who followed the development of Middle Earth Online will know what I mean. The original developers set out to create a world VERY consistent with Tolkien's Middle Earth, and to eliminate lots of the problems that made games like UO such a waste of time for players into doing some serious role playing. True to the Lord of the Rings, there would be few (if any) conventional wizards, elves would be a rare sight, etc., etc.
The development team was doing a fantastic job. Game engine done, they were getting close to a beta release...and then the top level management decided that the game as it stood didn't appeal to enough of a mass market. Ya see, 12 year old assholes WANT to run around wearing a loincloth yelling "I AM C00l1CU$ D00D1CU$! PH34r mY 1000000 point fireballs, L4m3r!" And if they think that they can earn $20 extra a month, the producers will grab it, at the expense of the story, and at the expense of all the prospective players who want to actually role-play inside a deep, powerful, and awesome world.
So they fired the entire dev team and scrapped 2-3 years worth of work, and started over. I suspect that the game will now turn out to be a UO knockoff with hobbits and 20000 Glamdrings.

So don't hold your breath hoping for a star wars rpg with a small number of jedi, and a reasonable race balance.

I 4M D4r7h D00D1Cu$, n4k3D $1th L0rD fr0M H3LL!

Re:Remember the fate of MEO...

[aldaron]

The development team was doing a fantastic job.

Thanks. However, I think what we were proposing was very risky; permanent death alone could have lost us many players, and I don't doubt that many others would have been put-off by the fact that they couldn't 'play Gandalf'. Of course, I stick by our designs, and wish we'd had the chance to prove them.

I suspect that Verant will have to deal with a lot of the problems that we were tackling with Middle-earth. Restrictions on numbers of Elves | Jedi Knights and so on. Beloved licenses are double-edged swords, with spikey handles (don't worry, Sierra never understood the analogy, either.)

I look forward to seeing how Verant handles the challenge, and wish them luck.

Daniel
Ex-Designer, Middle-earth

p.s. The folk who are moaning about charging for MMP's above have failed to think things through; centrally operated MMP's are a service business, and to provide large-scale customer service (both human and bandwidth etc.) is *very* costly. There is a reasonable point made, however, that charging for a retail box too is perhaps a little rich. Unfortunately, the margins on the commonly (and, because of this, imho foolishly) established price of $10/month are slim, such that a subscription-only model becomes marginal and uncertain to return its considerable development investment. (Yes, I have done the maths.)

Of course, it all depends how well your support your game. Trim your support costs to near-zero, rely on volunteers, you might make more money from each of your dwindling number of disaffected subscribers.

Finally, anyone who thinks that advertising can be used to support a 'classic fantasy' MMP world like Star Wars or Middle-earth is, imho, delusional. Gandalf does not drink Coke.

Re:Remember the fate of MEO...

[Steeltoe]

It's true that creating graphical MUDs or MMPs as you call them are very costly. You can't just take any big game, like Half-life, water it out into a "big" world, and add multiplayer capabilities. There's a whole slew of opportunities and tuning to be made to make a gaming world. Generally, the more people to play, the more complex it gets. Especially in maintenance.

This leads me to a question. How often do companies use each other code, eg license out code to another? I believe if most of the engines and code were available, this would greatly cut down on prices and giving more revenue to those companies that cooperate on such projects. I feel the development time and cost mostly goes into reinventing the wheel.

- Steeltoe

Neverwinter nights

[tiefling]

I think that the goal of the new black isle game Neverwinter nights is to run a multi-player game with the DM controlling all the factors, I'll prolly buy it when it comes out. Info is at www.neverwinternights.com

Names are not the problem you should watch for

[Zed Pobre]

The entire point of it is that it is for multiplayer over the internet. And nobody is going to be Darth Maul because that will almost certainly be a reserved name.

Assuming that Verant continues on the same model as Everquest (and considering the low development time, I find it likely that they will), there will be a number of separate servers, all run by verant, all hosting the same world. Each world will have a limited PC namespace, handled on a first-come first-serve basis, with offensive names (usually) being rejected by the system or by any GM that notices.

Unfortunately, if they design the world the same way as Everquest, it is going to be mind-numbingly tedious, with no real sense of accomplishment other than to watch numbers go up. The world system doesn't allow players to interact with it in a permanent sense. Fighting is actually handled by timed respawn, and it doesn't take more than a few months for players to learn the timing. If they opened up the interface specs, I might come back for the sole purpose of writing bot code to play, kind of like an expensive version of gnurobots, but the fact that this is feasable shows how limited the world is.

The other problem that I expect is server overloading. Currently, each world can support comfortably about 1000 users. On average, there are about 1500 users on each regular world, with peak hours driving this figure up as high as 1800 or 2000. This is apparantly by design, as the official word from Verant has been that the 1500-2000 loads are acceptable, despite noticable overcrowding (and the resultant antisocial behaviour) in most zones.

Re:Names are not the problem you should watch for

[Stormie]

The entire point of it is that it is for multiplayer over the internet. And nobody is going to be Darth Maul because that will almost certainly be a reserved name.

But how many people will be variations on "D4r+h M4u1" ? :-)

bite it!

[DrSkwid]

It's the only sensible business model innit really.
Giving the client away would be a good idea but any business venture is a gamble.
Making it a download would make sense if it wasn't so darn big.
So throw in distribution and advertising to go with the lovely packaging and box contents and you need a big wedge of cash.
It's early days yet in the MMRPG world. Watch the cost of playing come down as things improve.
.oO0Oo.

I have to agree with moonboy, this really sucks...

[moeffju]

This was submitted by me more than four days ago.
And of course it was declined.

It really _sucks_.

Middle Earth

[finkployd]

Let's hope they pick up some of the great ideas that the Middle Earth team came up with. For those of you who don't remember, Middle Earth was going to be a massive RPG along the same lines as this, but it had some unique features (perminent death being one of the most argued). However, in typical fashion, Sierra killed it and fired all the designers. It was a real shame too, as the designers were in close contact with the potantial game players the whole way through the design phase by e-mail, web, and irc. They were attempting some things that had never been done before.

I guess what I'm saying is, I'd like to see something new and original, not an UltimaOnline clone with lightsabers :)

Finkployd

What about Dune?

[Revenge]

IMHO Dune would make a far better MMRPG far more depth (we are talking five thousand years of plot here) and far more to do. Traveling from planet to planet. Some deep political plot lines instead of the typical kill 10000 critters, get a level and some plat. I was an EQ player for a good few months. I had three characters but never got past level 20. My biggest problem was the fact that the ONLY thing you could do to advance in the world was kill stuff. All that succeeded in doing was fighting bigger critters (usually with the same models) for more loot / xp. It seems that a MMRPG should be like a good game of D&D with 1400 players instead of 6. Some of us would be happy to be the barkeep. As long as I can get out once in a while, I don't need to be a hero all the time!

I got dibs on Boba Fett.

[GianfrancoZola]

Well, no one else called it.

Hmmm, what's my AC (armor class, not Anonymous Coward) with the Mandalorian Armor?

Special abilities: Disintegration, Tracking
Special items: Jet pack

Star Wars games suck

[falser]

I've never played one Star Wars game that was good enough to have repeat play potential. The old Tie fighter game was fun for the first 1 or 2 times you played it, but after that I never had the ambition to even start it up. Jedi Knight was kinda cool, the light saber in a 1st person shooter was sort of fun for a few minutes. But generally Star Wars games are dull, no interesting things to the games except the fact that it's based on Star Wars.

I had the unfortunate opportunity of seeing the Phantom Menace game - holy crap did it ever blow chunks. How anybody can sit down and play Star Wars games for long periods is beyond me, let alone what an Star Wars RPG is going to be like.

"I can only show you Linux... you're the one who has to read the man pages."

Re:Star Wars games suck

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think you have the games enough of a chance then my friend. I've replayed X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, Jedi Knight,..., most Star Wars games again and again. Granted, I'm a pretty big Star Wars fan, but I still think LucasArts always goes above and beyond in their games. They really tend to add that extra something that makes the game memorable. In that same line of thought, Force Commander should be on my doorstep tomorrow! I pity the poor saps who won't even try what looks to be a good game.

One last thing -- I can't believe the number of people here who are so bothered by the monthly charges of the MMORPGs. It takes a lot of work to keep the systems running smoothly all the time, not to mention the constant feedback, customer complaints, technical issues, and (in the case of Asheron's Call at least) monthly improvements and additions to the game. No, not bug fixes, but feature additions. And YES, companies do have to make money beyond all that. Freeware/Open Sourced code is great for some situations, but people need to make a living as well.

Anyhow...said that was gonna be real short...oh well.

-----------------------------------------------
Nothing ticks me off more than someone unable to look both ways before crossing the street....

Diku lawsuit?

[sean.k]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet...

What I want in an RPG

[Graymalkin]

I've been playing pen and paper RPGs for many many years now. The best thing about them is that you've got a set of rules and a world to play in but the stories, quests, ect. is up to the GM to make up (or someone else). I've yet to see an online RPG that was like that. Some of the better MUDs I tried had good replay value but never much questing. What I want in a MMRPG is a huge world with thousands upon thousands of quests and play possibilities with oodles of noodles of items and such (like Rogue). for replay value I thought Diablo was pretty good, it was like a hack'n'slash MUD but the number of items you could possibly find was nice as was the fact that the dungeons were randomly generated so playing more than once could be fun.
I think this RPG ought to be based off the pen and paper game by West End Games. I've been playing that forever and it hasn't become old or boring. I'm skeptical so far about this game because in my opinion all the rest of the Lucas Arts SW games blew goats. They were fine for the first level or so but then they just became more of the same. The multiplayer aspect was nice but the only difference between Jedi Knight and Quake was lightsabers. In a universe as rich as Star Wars you would think even a single player game would have tons of interaction between you and NPCs but with JK they only wanted to emulate Quake.Thats what Lucas Arts is good at, emulating everyone else. None of their games have been terribly original, merely some game with a SW theme, the only barely original games were Rogue Squadron and Yoda Stories(sp?). Replacing grunts with Jedi or Zergs with Imperials is not my idea of innovation.
Personally I think a game similar in gameplay to Resident Evil or FF7&8 would make an awesome MMRPG, of course with oodles more places to explore. Oh well, I think I'm going to stick to paper for a while longer.

Yipee

[Seb Rabit]

Can you say "Elite-style-free-for-all-trading-and-fighting-and -joining-alliance/empire-in-permenant-un iverse-whilst-doing-what-the-hell-you-want-when-yo u-want" all in one breath and not die of a heart attack for sheer joy? But I suspect it will be a lame mission based fighter sim or a massive online battle of hoth. I want an online Elite (preferably with the full inertial flight model that allowed for 'fun' (complicated) flying rather than point and fly used by Xwing Games. Anyway, I want to fly a Star Destroyer, dum-dum dedumdumdum domdomdom, dum-dum dedumdumdum domdomdom pa pa pa pom papa pom papa, pe pe pe pa pompe pa pompe...

Funny i thought the problem was

[Anonymous Coward]

That you MUST work with other people, and generally be only 24 hours a day to keep up... and ADDICT is the true word to describe the many EQ wreck who has had their life destroyed by this new drug...

Did anyone notice...

[Backward Z]

"Star Wars online will be a phenomenon that transforms online gaming for both gamers and casual game players," says Lisa Simpson, president of Sony Online Entertainment. "It is a great addition to the blue chip brands our audience has come to enjoy at The Station. We are delighted to work with LucasArts and continue our close association with Verant Interactive."

Specifically, the, "...says Lisa Simpson, president of Sony Online Entertainment."

Hmmm...

I thought it was kinda ironic.

/me shrugs

Re: p&p rpg - star wars

[Anonymous Coward]

West End no longer make the pencil and paper RPG. Wizards of the Coast have aqcuired the license. It is unclear whether they will release a new game or a new incarnation of the old game.

aliens in sw rpg

[Anonymous Coward]

how will they balance the races???
the best (non-jedi) jawa will probably suck compared to the worst wookiee!
and what about races from books and comics? I want a yuzzem (Splinter of the Mind's Eye) but they only appeared in one very minor book and the comic based on it.

the Lucas hype machine powers into action (again)

[anthonyjhicks.com]

Avoiding the whole - damn I was dissapointed with TPM war, remember that this is the LucasArts hype machine all over again.. and alot of you are already sucked in by it. I'll be VERY surprised if the game turns out to be as good as you guys hope.

A true Role Playing Game

[Anonymous Coward]

Hail, We are developing what we hope to be a true 3D role playing game for the Win(I wish I did not have to but its the market), Mac, Linux, and FreeBSD platforms. Im mentioning this here becouse we are going to turn it into a MMORPG in the future. If anyone here is tired of just talking about how crapy the current bunch of MMORPGs are and would like to do something about it please give me a call. We are looking for 3D modelers, texture artist, writers, scetch artist, and 3D map artist. We have developed a realy nice OpenGL game engine and a truely powerfull scripting engine. You can email me at mathew@rootcomputing.com and ICQ me at #38319604

Asheron's allegiance system (was Re:pay-to-play?)

[Captain Chaos]

I was only involved in a small allegiance for a while so I'm not sure how well I'll be able to answer this. I don't really think it would be possible for a system like this to prevent or really lessen the problems you mention. There are still plenty of people out there powerleveling in areas where they can kill high level enemies and not get hurt, camping for special items, using bugs to duplicate items or use quarrels with a bow, etc. Turbine however has been working to lessen those problems. For example they have changed the landscape of some of the powerleveling areas they know about so now the monsters can fight back, made some of the new items have a limit on how many or how often you can obtain them and other tweaks like that. So far it seems to be working good other than really upsetting the people who enjoyed exploiting it.

It seems the major draw of the allegiances though is mainly to provide a group of people to draw upon for help, adventuring partners and advice. From what I have experienced of it and have seen, it seems to work pretty well. It could use some more changes though so it's easy for a monarch to communicate to the rest of the monarchy and to find out the names of the members. With a large monarchy though you can get quite powerful. The way it works is you get experience points from your vassels which can be quite substantial in a large monarchy. The best part is the experience points are basically free ones, you don't lose any portion of your experience at all. Also in the latest event some of the monarchs have been rewarded with a very nice weapon if they can pass a test. A few of the highest ranking ones have received a challenge to run the guantlet. From what I understand they get transported to an area filled with high level monsters and if they can run through and make it to the end in a set time they are rewarded with a Shadow Claw.

If you'd like more insight into the system, try here and read the interviews with top monarchs. I'm not sure if this was any help answering your question or not, but I hope it helps. I'll quit my rambling for now so I can get some sleep. :)

GEORGE LUCAS AND WHY I DISLIKE HIM

[Anonymous Coward]

I dislike George Lucas. AS far as I am concerned, i would like to tread horse shit all over his naked twitching body. His movies are terrible, the epitome of sadness. Choosing the hideously ugly Natalie Portman to star in episode one was a disaster. Not only can't she act, she doesn't turn me on. A far greater actress would have been any supermodel whether she can act or not. I expected greater special effects, but I got crap. Steven Spielberg should produce Star Wars, as much as I dislike him too. ET was a great film, possibly the greatest ever made. And Chewbacca. I laugh at hime. A great hairy beast with muffled speech? He should be in a B-Grade porn flick. Now I'd watch that. Princess Leia has the most ridiculas thighs ever, they are full of cellulite. She is as ugly as a dead horse that had been run over by a rolling fat man. Thankyou for your time.

A few comments from an Everquest player

[Hardware]

Some of the info about EQ and hence the possibilities for the new game being presented here are somewhat innacurate so take them with a grain of salt.

Eg. EQ is highly dependant on Direct X.

Considering I play it in Glide this is a bit misleading...

or Server loads suck and you have 2000 ppl playing on one server.

The EQ world is broken in to zones and each zone actually runs on a server in a server farm. What breaks it is too many ppl in one zone.

Anyway, just had to add my bit. :)

Re: Lag city!

[Grab]

Erm, I think we're going to see BIG lag on this. As an old-time MUD player, I know how big a hit the net takes during the day. Quake may get round it by minising the comms with the server, but there's known problems with that (eg. shooting through doors, auto-aim bots, etc). If you want this to scale to massive quantities of PCs, that kind of thing needs to be stopped, but that means more server comms, and more net resources. Call me a pessimist, but the sheer scale of this is going to be a problem.

Added to this, how interactive can you make a graphical thingy? On a text-based MUD, you can add extra features to your domain with commands which aren't usually used (a good example, which _is_ used, is "cut down tree with herring" :) Every graphical adventure I've seen has a very limited range of options (eg. push, pull, move, turn), and you just can't get the same range of interaction. In this situation, it's possible to solve a problem simply by trying different options randomly until you find one that works - rather different from the text approach where you have to grok the _concept_.

Grab.

Re:the Lucas hype machine powers into action (agai

[Anonymous Coward]

Please look at the companies that are producing it before throwing out your opinion.

It's being worked on ...

[P_Simm]

Someone mentioned this in a reply post to something else above already, but since you asked ...

WorldForge is an open-source MMORPG project, working on not just a single game but a complete gaming system. Servers, clients (different platforms AND different interfaces), protocols, artwork, world design, the whole nine yards.

Check out the website for more info, and drop by the IRC server or get on the mailing lists if your interested.

Hey, lookit that, the link is in my sig too ... :)

Re:I have to agree with moonboy, this really sucks

[otis wildflower]

Probably to make room for yet another opinion on sales tax on the internet...


Your Working Boy,

Stay away if Verant is running the servers...

[Zondar]

Let me give you a little history lesson on EQ. Verant brought the game out and said something akin to "up to 1000" or "over 1000" players per world. Then during release it went to averaging 1200, then Verant upped the published numbers to 1500. Then as the servers started averaging 1500+, they revised the figures once again to "1500-1800". Now the servers are all averaging 1800-1900, regularly 2000+, and everyone is complaining. They won't even respond to the posts now about overcrowding. They put up ONE new server in approximately six weeks, yet they gain 80-100 new customers a DAY. They are hoping the EXPANSION will help cure the overcrowding problem, by expanding the world size by approximately 1/3. Of course, they'll then update the figure to 2000-2400, since they're expanding the world, and the servers will quickly average 2600-2800. They don't want to invest additional money for servers, they don't want to invest additional money for bandwidth. They believe that EQ has run it's lifecycle peak, and are therefore waiting for people to start going away to other online games. From my own personal perspective, I believe they make more money off of getting a new customer, pissing them off, then that customer quitting and a new customer signing up (that's 2x $40 for the game) than they do from that customer staying and playing for a year. But in this instance, Verant has lost all respect from me and from a LARGE portion of the EQ gaming community. Head over to their message boards sometime and read how the "powers that be" treat their customers. Here's a good example. The stats (Agility, Dexterity, Strength, Intelligence, etc etc) that exist in the game are listed in the manual as affecting certain attributes and characteristics of gameplay. You would think that increasing your Dexterity would increase your to-hit percentage, right? And increasing your Agility would increase your dont-get-hit percentage? And you would figure that anything specifically listed in the manual would be "gospel" right? Turns out that the manual listed Dexterity as a good attribute for casters, for the reason being that it would reduce Interruptions (you get hit and lose your concentration while casting a spell - if you have higher dex, you would ignore the affect and continue casting). One day, the Verant PR guy Gordon Wrynn/Abashi slipped up and responded with Dex doesn't affect casters. Oh boy, big mistake. He kept the players in the dark up until then, but now he responded and let at least one cat out of the bag. Torrents of messages followed, and the worse it got, the more tightlipped Verant got about the situation. They claimed they didn't have as much "creative control" over the published Player's Guide as they had wished. But the downloaded manual on the hard drive contains the same info? So then came "well, why can't you patch the manual to reflect the real situation?" Then they followed up with this gem: ----------- >>>If it's not accurate, patch it. If you believe it's accurate, say so. Stop dancing around behind the "we don't want to spoil the game" answer. The only patch I'd do to the stats information in the everquest_manual.txt would be to remove that section. However, there's quite a few other things in the manual that could use an update. That update is being written now, so it wouldn't make much sense to do an incomplete update of the manual. -Gordon ----------------- So instead of actually telling the players how the stats affect their character (AND REMEMBER, THOSE STATS ARE DECIDED AT CHARACTER CREATION, AND ARE **NOT** MODIFIABLE), they thought the most prudent action would be to take all references of stats out of the manual. This is only one example of the way Verant treats their "customers". You have been forewarned.

Link for education about Verant

[Zondar]

http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HT ML/024094.html

Re:Oh great , were going to have 1000 luke skywalk

[Anonymous Coward]

Moderate that one up, that was good. Brundlefly, mithmarr

For good roleplaying, try Clan Lord.

[Weasel Boy]

The most common complaint I read here about EQ and UO appears to be the lack of roleplaying. There is hope! Clan Lord is a sort of homegrown little MMORPG that is very strong on community, social interaction, and roleplaying. The game itself is on the simple side, but above all else, Clan Lord is fun. If you can handle a 30 MB download, you can even try the free demo. Sorry, Mac users only at this time. Ob Disclaimer: Clan Lord has consumed a lot of my time and money. I need to be vindicated.

How about a distributed game server?

[Mike Van Pelt]

Does there necessarily have to be one central game server for multiplayer Internet gaming? It seems to me is should be possible to write a very complex, richly detailed RPG game so that it's entirely peer-to-peer among the people currently playing it.

There are ... "challenges" to this, of course. You have to deal with communication delays, the fact that any system can and will drop off without warning, and, of course, the guys who will think it amusing to hack a "Everything But Me Dies" gun into the game. But it should be possible to work around these problems.

Re:the Lucas hype machine powers into action (agai

[Anonymous Coward]

granted the lastest batch of LEC games have blown massive chunks.. I have it on *very* good authority that the way things are run around there are changing *drastically*. besides, isn't Verant producing this game? LEC will only be the publisher as far as I know..