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MySQL Released Under The GPL
Bryan Mattern was the first of hundreds to note that
MySQL is being released under the GPL, as well as forming a partnership with VA Linux (which of course now owns Andover). This means nice things like it can move out of non-free in debian, and that the postgress/MySQL debate can now be argued in terms of features instead of license. MySQL's license was definitely a hurdle for the FAISC [?] so I'm really glad to see this happen.
another good argument for a great product
--- d'oh
..someone please stick transactions in it? I mean, its not even really a database without transactions... not to mention doesn't follow the SQL standard since COMMIT and ROLLBACK are not optional operations.
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
1) Are more people moving from their traditional licenses to the GPL? A lot of license bingo has been going on lately.
2) Differences between postgress and MySQL.
Well, now is a good time to start the debate, which do you like better and why? I like them both equally, but then again, I've only run MySQL in enterprise, how does postgress hold up to real strain?
Eh...
Is that Yahoo! quotes CmdrTaco on the press release!
Go Slashdot!
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
I'm in my infant stage of learning SQL and, at the urging of my geek comrades, have opted to focus on postgreSQL. This keeps me from playing with a lot of cool stuff that's out there and really only supports MySQL right now. It'd be nice to see both of the packages be robust enough (and standard enough) that they can be easily substituted (or am I only thinking that it's harder than it is because of my lack of experience with it?)
Of course, 'robust' and 'standard' is often a slightly self-cancelling comparison, isn't it?
---
seumas.com
Why is it that the moment MySQL goes GPL'd, Slashdot (which runs on MySQL) goes belly-up? I hope it isn't a refutation of ESRs panacea argument...
8^)
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http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
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Now every component of Slashcode is under the GPL. That's pretty cool. I can finally release a SlashLinux distro!!!
Keeping
That makes /. essentially related to MySQL, now doesn't it ?
Be ot or bot ne ot, taht is the nestquoi.
It was some other license before, but they released some very old versions under the GPL.
D
----
MySQL vs PostgreSQL. That was the question.
speed vs. reliability....
...hmmmm...
speed vs. reliability....
Now which side of that arguement was I on again. I keep forgetting.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
I was under the impression that the main reason mySQL wasn't under the GPL was that their business plan involved selectively selling the product for profit (instead of mandatorily allowing it to be given away as per the GPL).
I wonder how much they were paid, since I'd like to see them do well. It seems odd that they would give up a previously profitable strategy - maybe someone else can enlighten me on the probable financial picture? I'm much curious.
D
----
The License wasn't GPL. If you used MySQL to build a commercial product, you had to pay license fees, AFAIR.
-- If windows is the solution, can we please have the problem back?
The 'free-as-in-speech' RDBMS arena has another contender, Interbase.
While it is licensed under the IPL (an MPL derived license) and not the GPL, it is nevertheless a free software RDBMS.
This three-way race should prove interesting.
--
The real Webmaven is user ID 27463. I don't rate an imposter, because my ID is such a lame-ass high number.
I spoke about this in 1998. Back then there really were no half way decent free SQL databases. I contended that any such database would eventually rise to the quality of Oracle.
Now we will finally get to see what happens when a SQL back end is under the GPL and useable for real work. My guess is that it will accelerate the way the Kernel and KDE have. I suspect it will be so but "the community" has a chance to prove me wrong.
Let's see how many Free Software hackers go to bat with this one. Let's see how many people fix that infamous Memory leak or add those extra features ( There probably is a reason for Oracle to be as big as the E-Smith distribution )
Will MySQL become as much of a killer app as Linux is becoming? Only time will tell. My bet is on the free code.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
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I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
You always had to pay for mysql under Micro$oft operating systems. Will the windows source base be GPL'd too? If it is not, I take it the GPL would allow someone else to port the *nix code?
I know the average slashdot user hates windows, but a lot of people still use it.
Considering mySQL is an integral part of Slash, it is good that VA Linux have chosen to invest money in the development of mySQL. Not only is this repaying a debt to a piece of software which has made their biggest site (Slashdot) what it is today, but I can see that greater co-operation between the mySQL developers and the Slash developers may be good for those of us who run Slash sites. Perhaps a version of mySQL specially optimised for the peculiarities of Slash may arise from this co-operation.
I hope today's announcement will cause those members of the Slashdot community who view VA Linux as the Borg of the Linux world to think differently. VA are showing that the open source business model does work, despite what their detractors on Slashdot say.
have they released the Win32 version under the GPL also? If so this could really open the floodgates since this is the only database with a free/GPL JDBC driver.
(Thanks to Jim)
Here's another, somewhat more informative story on this.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I recently saw an item from sleepycat software (makers of Berkeley DB library) appearing on freshmeat where they mentioned "This version of DB is the first which can be used with MySQL to give MySql support for transactions". Something for the ACID crowd.
It will be interesting to see what is the interaction between the MySQL GPL and Berkeley DB
licence (which is also an open source licence).
Duct tape + WD40 => DevOps
I kinda like the BSD license. Yeah, it doesn't have the hype that the GPL does, but BSD has been around for a LOT longer, and while Linux is the flavor of the moment, BSD has a MUCH more in set base of users and administrators and servers. (Linux has all of the neat new stuff though, but BSD has compatibility so...)
Eh...
Well, I have run both products for 3 years. PSQL is *finally* stable.
The fact that for 2 years PSQL was a cratering ship has always turned me off for even thinking about using it with my customers.
My last web site does over a million dollars of computer part sales a month on MySQL. (Granted, the enterprise database is informix.. but MySQL does all the rest).
I might consider using PSQL now.. but first it MUST be faster, and it had better not CRATER!!
Pan
I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
What's more interesting to me is seeing a big software comapny like Progress, who has made enterprise class databse systems for years, adopt MySQL as its "Open Source" databse product rather than release its own existing tools as Open Source.
In case you missed it the press release I am refering to is at LinuxToday and talks about Progress software's new company NuSphere.
The company I work for has been a Progress shop for years, it would sure be nice to see MySQL be more compatible with many of our old databases. It would be even better if through this relationship Progress will support other open source endevauors (most notably PHP).
-MS2k
I always thought it was funny that ya had to pay for the Ms veraion. After all the developers had to buy the OS to dev it on.
.oO0Oo.
Frankly it was always cheaper (time & money) to install FreeBSD and pop MySQL on it too and have a dedicated server.
Heck you can even do ODBC this way.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
What I really want is a GPL'ed matrix database. You may not have heard of this, so I'll give a quick explanation. In a matrix database, you set up a Beowulf cluster and allow it to develop sentience, whereupon it takes over and imprisons all the humans in a virtual reality that people mistake for the real world. Anyone who starts to figure out what's going on is removed by special super-fast, unkillable "agents" who wear dark sunglasses for no particularly obvious reason. Now that's what I call a database!
And best of all, it doesn't run on Windows, because sentience can't evolve in an OS that crashes hourly (even if it did, it would commit suicide out of self-disgust).
Let me guess. You spend hours on IRC having conversations like this:
You: Hello.
HornyFem: Hello.
You: How are you?
HornyFem: Why do you ask how am I?
You: Just trying to make conversation.
HornyFem: Please continue.
You: I can't unless you talk as well!
HornyFem: Would you feel better if you could unless I talk as well?
You: You talk strange.
HornyFem: Please continue.
etc...
Hamish
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
Now if we can just get all the open source developers out there to learn how to set up database architecture, we'll be all set.
- daniel
- daniel
Turn off your computer and go outside
It's been a while since I was in a database class, but I think transactions and locking are orthogonal subjects. If all you have is transactions, you can STILL improperly read data. For that matter, you can still improperly WRITE data.
All transactions do is let you roll back a SET of steps atomically. This set is called a transaction. So, once your locking method tells you "Hey! You can't read/write that!" then you can fail, rolling the transaction back.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
The biggest news here is that the windows port (which some of us use ;) is totally free. Previously, one had to purchase a license to use the non-shareware windows port.
shameless self promotion - http://kibbles.org
It was a small message board, with few users. The potential error was minimal. I should say, "Was working on." Because we never really used a finished state of it. We're going to start back on the same project in the fall.
Eh...
web.mysql.com/news/article-22.html
One of the biggest news is that the Windows version of MySQL is now also distributed under the GPL license.
Finally, the Win32 version of MySQL is completely free. This makes it the only free (as in both) industrial-strength database on the Windoze platform AFAIK.
So I now have even more ammo to get my boss to ban Microsoft Access and SQL Server from our office!
Does anyone know how to use this from Active Server Pages (ASP)? ODBC driver I guess, right?
--
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
The announcement can be found here: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/000628/ma_progres.html
Progress Software has been around for 17 years, and has lots of experience with databases, and development tools. (http://www.progress.com)
I didn't mean, "It's better," what I mean is, people have been using it for a long time, a lot of senior people who make decisions have used it on their machines. It's more commonly used in universities than Linux (IE, at WVU, we use SysV with the BSD compat package installed). I didn't mean, "Gee, BSD is great." I meant, "Gee, BSD has been around for a long time, and is used a lot more than people say it is."
Eh...
I meant to make that a comment on the amount of stuff released under it, and that a lot of people like that part of the license. Personally, I like to think that I could release some prelim version of my code, get people using it, a free release, and still use my code in a commercial form as well, and allow the source to be open. I kind of like the feature that lets me make closed software (not a popular POV around here, I know). Of course, other people can too, which isn't necessarily a bad thing either.
Eh...
varies; British English takes one side of the whole "collective noun" thing and American English takes the other. In British English, "Andover are excited to throw chickens into the air" would be correct, at least grammatically. After all, "company" may be a singular noun, but it indicates a plurality anyhow ("A company of men marched into the room and decided the color was all wrong.") Both approaches make sense, they just choose a different way of looking at the problem.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Personally, I like to think that I could release some prelim version of my code, get people using it, a free release, and still use my code in a commercial form as well,and allow the source to be open.
The GPL does not prevent this behavior, assuming either (1) you are the sole author of the code or (2) for any contributed code you add to the product you have the contribtor sign a seperate licensing agreement giving your company unrestricted re-distribution rights.
IANAL, but having read the GPL, it seems to me that releasing code under the GPL does not explicitly waive your rights to your intellectual property under the copyright act. However, if you were to add code to your product that other people contribute, without some sort of explicit statement from the contributor giving you rights beyond the GPL itself, you would only be able to include that code in GPL versions of your product.
ok...put DOWN the popcorn and come quietly with us...
we have a nice white jacket with extra long sleeves with belts and buckles on them for you to wear.
we are your friends and we are here to help.
...that we now have to call it GNU/MySQL?
<grin>
Seriously though, this can only be a good thing. MySQL is uniquely positioned to become a "category killer" in the world of free databases, as long as some of the features people have been requesting are added (such as transactions). The placement of MySQL in the GPL world means that open source programmers will not hesitate to put lots of contributions into it.
I'm aware that they were previously dual-licensing it, with the new version as not-quite-free and an older version as GPL, but that tends to ruffle some feathers in the free software community. This is much better. I hope Aladdin Systems is paying attention and does the same thing with GhostScript.
--
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
...at least when it comes to speed for tables with few ( less than 1 mil) entries.
$ for i in `seq 1000000`; do echo $RANDOM >> randomlines;done
$ time grep -c 1234 randomlines
415
0.02user 0.08system 0:00.09elapsed 106%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
0inputs+0outputs (2871major+22minor)pagefaults 0swaps
That is 9/100 of a second to do a "select" and count of 1 million lines in bash using good old grep. And no db-connections to bother with...
How does MySQL or Postgres compare to that?
(System: dual P-II 550MHz, 256MB of RAM, Linux 2.2.12)
This new license frees me up. I've been working on a book on building intranets with PHP and I wanted the code to be cross platform, but PostgreSQL doesn't come in binary form for Windows, Access/MSSQL weren't available for UNIX, MySQL had a restrictive license for Windows. Now I can use MySQL with no problems. Woohoo.
LetterJ
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
No, mSQL is a completely separate project. I think mySQL deliberately started as a superset of mSQL, but other than that, there's no relation.
Andover's ad delivery system is GPL'ed too. Available for download here.
PosgreSQL is by far the more advanced database engine. No question. MySQL is by far the faster of the two.
The reason that MySQL is by far the faster is that PosgreSQL is by far the more advanced.
If you try to make MySQL as advanced as PostgreSQL you will slow it down to the point where it is no faster.
Stop trying to compare them. They do DIFFERENT JOBS.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
Once a company or group releases source code, it's hard for me to see why they should not GPL it. The key to making this work is to require copyright assignment for any patches. Then the company retains the right to reuse code in other projects or custom work under any conditions.
As the FSF itself requires copyright assignment, there is no community objection to such a practice. It just seems to me to be all gain and no pain.
The best database engine in the world can't sort out bugs like this one "Oh, just a quick code update on the live site... of course it'll work... no need to check..." :-)
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
Ok, time for a reality check:
1) VA has yet to turn a profit. Infact, they're still seriously in debt. This "partnership" creates a dependence on VA financial situation. If VA goes down the tubes (as nearly 80% of
2) VA has absolutely no policy in place to protect the work of users who house their projects on SourceForge. Infact, Linux Weekly News (as independent a source as you can get nowadays..they arent owned.) ran an article nearly 5 months ago pointing this out. SourceForge's privacy policy amounted to a one-line "We'ere working on it" statement. 5 months later, it still hasn't changed. Right now, from a legal standpoint, nothing prevents VA's management from picking and choosing from the collective ideas of 37,000 people, and nearly 6,000 projects in development, putting full-time employees on the task of replicating the work of the volunteers, and consequently leaving them in the dust without a legal leg to stand on.
This includes MySQL.
You can read LWN's two articles on SourceForge's lack of a security policy here and here
Relevant links:
Press Release, "VA Linux Forms Strategic Alliance With MySQL; MySQL Becomes Completely Open Source And Hosts Project On SourceForge
VA Linux Shareholder To Sell 1.55M Shares
Jon Richards files SEC 114 to dump restricted shares
IDC Report on VA's 5% Marketshare
And for fun, a story on VA's stock performance..or lack thereof..
Those are the facts. Educate yourself, folks.
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
Would be great if VA Linux would invest into Troll Tech to make the same thing happen with QT. This would be another boost to Linux and Free Software & make everyone happy.
Agreed. This is a great trend to see -- Linux companies using their newfound market power to get more software released under the GPL! MandrakeSoft did it with the Bochs PC emulator, now VA Linux with MySQL. (I don't know if Red Hat has done this, but they've funded GNOME development quite a bit.) It's that "rising tide" thing; the more of this we see, the better it is for everyone.
Troll Tech should be next. Seriously, there is a lot of demand for QT despite license headaches; if QT were under the GPL, it would be a Good Thing (tm). Perhaps Red Hat, VA Linux and other Linux vendors could join forces to do more of this, starting with QT. (I might suggest Motif also, but that may not be viable.)
As an aside, could we have a bit less license proliferation? Does every open-source software release really need a custom license with slight variations on existing ones? (I think I'd like to see GPL/MPL dual-licensing become the norm, unless the GPL is modified to be compatible with the MPL...)
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
Does anyone know how to use this from Active Server Pages (ASP)? ODBC driver I guess, right?
I know this is probably related to the heavy traffic at their site today, but still; shouldn't they be able to keep their manual section up and running a little better? Hopefully the investment from VA Linux will go towards upgrading their 486 33sx web server. ;-)
Anyways, I am happy about this; I'm just grumpy because I hate missing deadlines. Documentation is HUGE in this field, so I hate it when companies skimp.
Free music from Jack Merlot.
This is really great.
It used to be that MySQL was free for use, but you couldn't sell it. That meant that if I was to consult for a business, and set up an infrastucture for them, I could use Linux, Apache and MySQL, but if I was charging them money (and of course I am) then I would have to pay MySQL.
Now I don't have to pay MySQL. So I (or any enterprising tech) can hire themselves out to set up a company's IT infrastucture and NOT PAY A CENT TO ANYONE FOR SOFTWARE.
This will speed adoptions of completely GPLed networks and backends, as well as further help the budding cottage industry of freelance IT consultants.
Why is this important, other that we can make more money now?
Supporting the "cottage industry" tech consultants is what got Microsoft where it it today. I am seeing more and more parallels between MS programmers/network consultant of 5 years ago and Linux-Open Source programmers/network consultants today.
The geeks tell the "dumb" suits what to use. Win over the geeks (as MS did in the early 90's) and you win over the suits, eventually.
"But the suits demand MS products!" you say. Well, back in the day, the suits demanded IBM. But the MS won out eventually, and Linux/Apache/MySQl will too. We are already halfway there.
We already had alot of reasons to push MySQL, now we have one more - it saves us money!
-geekd
Any modern CGI script that uses a database backend and is written in Perl should be using DBI. If you write your code in DBI, then the only code you have to re-write is the connect statement plus cases where your SQL statements use a feature that's not present on the new DB. As long as you stick to standard SQL, porting to a new database is practically painless. I haven't looked at the slash code, but if it uses DBI, it shouldn't be too much work to port it to another database. On the other hand, database integrity in Slash is probably not its highest priority, so mySQL is not such a bad choice.
Here is the documentation about how to use it.
This is beta right now but this is for real.see subject line :-)
Eh...
This is typical Linux-user hubris. If it is Open Source, it must be better right? Wrong.
1. SQL Server has transactions, MySQL does not.
2. SQL Server has FKs, MySQL does not.
3. SQL Server has row-level-locking, MySQL does not.
4. SQL Server has triggers, MySQL does not.
5. SQL Server has compiled SPROCs, MySQL does not.
MySQL is NOT and enterprise grade RDBMS. It does not even compare to SQL Server. If you are trying to get SQL Server removed from your company in favor or MySQL, you are jeopardizing critical business data. I would never trust any data stored in a database without transactions or FK constraints.
In short, why should anybody worry about their project being stolen when they're already giving it away to anyone who wants it? When it comes to privacy policy, I'd be much more worried about annoying spam and the like, really.
Your facts may be correct, but your speculations lack logic.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
I wonder how many people know about InterBase. This fast, full-featured RDMS is becoming open-source. Go to InterBase, download the beta version of 6.0, and check it out.
Honestly, I cannot imagine what mySQL could have over InterBase.
"Send an Instant Karma to me" - Yes
*giggle*
When writing Web application I never (except
for debug) put any on the HTML in the program,
the graphical designers can't be expected to
edit Perl, instead by Perl scripts and load
and edit and display HTML templates with space
to for the variable. So I get to stick to the
programming and the GD's and stick to the
design without to much worry. A simple subroutines
is even to add the data to the HTML with
purals and conditionals, e.g.
<PRE>
sub output {
$output = $_[0]; # Template passed in $_[0]
$output =~ s/\[(\w+)\]/${$1}/egs;
$output =~ s/\[s\-(\w+)\]/ "s" if
(${$1} != 1)/egs;
$output =~
s/\[IF\s+(\w+)\=(\w+)\](.*?)\[\/IF\]/ $3 if (${$1} eq $2)/iegs;
print $output;
}
</PRE>
Earlier this week Mission Critical Linux open-sourced their High-availability cluster technology called Kimberlite. I've seen this on lwn and linuxtoday, but it was notably absent from slashdot.
:)
From what I've seen, it's better than LVS and Pirhanna because it gives you higher levels of data integrity. For example, when a node hangs, but doesn't die, the other node kills it, so that the first can't recover and suddenly you have 2 nodes serving inconsistent data. It also works with shared SCSI storage between two nodes, which I don't think the others do....
If you're interested in High Availability computing, this is definitely worth checking out. The kimberlite homepage is at http://oss.missioncriticallinux.com on your radio dial...
Check out the OSS linux clustering technology called
Can I use this for commercial purposes without releasing my code or not? I find their web pages confusing on this topic. Obviously, if it's GPL'd then I have to release my code. But what if I am using a JDBC connection layer to the DB? I am not directly using the DB client interface then...I guess I'll stick to PostGres.
Oracle 8.1.6 for linux is currently is oracles top download.
What else should we be doing in the linux/open source area?
Our product (Oracle Migration Workbench, free from Oracle Technology Network ) currently runs on windows but can migrate, SQLserver, Sybase and Access to Oracle on Linux (using Oracle networking connectivity), we are working on SQLAnywhere and mysql (next up is Informix) we may do Postgress if there is demand. There are other facilities for migration, e.g. Oracle transparent gateways and flat files for data migration (imported to Oracle using sqlldr), and some unsupported toolkits/migration documentation on OTN. Data from oracle on other platforms can be transfered to Oracle on Linux using exp and imp (shipped with Oracle server).
totierne@hotmail.com
Be Free: Free Software Tuition
Not quite.
;)
Lets suppose you work for VA. If your company can withstand criticism, go ahead, lets see it defend itself. Ultimately, we'll see whos right and who's wrong, who's trying to cover their ass, and who's trying to paint an accurate picture. Bring it on, i'm ready.
If I were you, I wouldnt open my mouth if I weren't sure of what the hell was going to come out of it.
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
If VA goes down the tubes (which is unlikely, but possible), MySQL continues on. MySQL is not OWNED by VA. It is owned by the same people who have always owned it. And even if it were bought by VA, it is GPL'd, so have fun.
And VA can do the same thing you say with ANY open source project, whether it is on SourceForge or not. So can Microsoft, for that matter. Welcome to Open Source. LWN makes good points about private data being used for recruitment, demographic information, etc. You don't make any good points, though.
Great Bridge is to PostgreSQL as Red Hat is to Linux. They will offer support contracts and also fund (some?) future development of PostgreSQL.
cpeterso
Again, not what I would write. Oracle, maybe, but didn't you notice that Interbase is going Open Source? In fact, they ran the license by me and it's really an Open Source license. Interbase is an enterprise-quality database and with the help of the community could become even more powerful. It would be nice to see participation like that from Oracle, but I won't hold my breath.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Bowie, its not like VA is stockpiling open source software and is going to suddenly pick up and leave. If youre so paranoid about VA and them "stealing" free software (how exactly do you do that?), why havn't they done it yet?
Oh, i know, theyre luring us into a false sense of security, and the *poof* theyre going to rob us blind. damn, we should remove our software from sourceforge asap, wouldnt want them taking free software from what is basically a bigass ftp site. lets put our software on our own sites! yeah, thatll prevent them from putting fully paid professionals on it!!
As for sourceforge/privacy/security, If YOU dont like it, YOU dont have to use it. Most users arent extremly concerned with it, and just need a place to put some html, cvs and such. If perhaps you could get over the fact that sourceforge is kinda cool and a big sucess and has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU, maybe we could get something worthwhile out of this, but as it is, VA bashing and cyncism is all that appears, what a shame.
- You link a part of the of [sic] MySQL that has a GPL Copyright to a program which is not free software (embedded usage of the MySQL server). In this case your application would also become GPL through the clause in the GPL license that acts as a virus. By licensing MySQL from us under a commercial license you will avoid this problem.
- You have a commercial application that ONLY works with MySQL and ships the application with the MySQL server. This is because we view this a linking even if it is done over the network.
- You have a distribute MySQL and you don't provide the source code for your copy of the MySQL server, as defined in the GPL license.
my questionsok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
http://www.mysql.com/sup port/arrangements/example/isp.html
"If you charge for MySQL installation and administrative support as part of your customer service, then you need a license because you are selling a service that includes MySQL."
I sure hope this is just something which mysql forgot to take out of the website, because this is certainly not a valid interpretation of the GPL.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
They released version under GPL nearly a year ago and look how much as been done with it!
You just wish your ID was as low as mine! I used to be proud to have such a low id, but not so much now. Slashdot most
The parent post was discussing that more stuff should be put under the GPL, and that the BSD license is not as good. What I was trying to get across is that the BSD license is a good license, but the GPL is the flavor of the moment because of all of the hype surrounding linux. I was making examples of the fact that A LOT OF PEOPLE USE THE BSD License. It wasn't really a comparison of operating systems, as saying, BSD is a good license too, why does it always have to be GPL around here? Get it?
Eh...
GPL or QPL, either way, it's the same problem -- you can't use it to write commercial software. Not without buying a commercial license from Troll Tech anyhow. Which is not a big deal at the moment, if you're a commercial company...
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Microsoft's MSDE is also a total free database. it's a database engine that acts like SQLserver and ment for developers, but you can run it as a database for normal usage, and avoid evil access databases.
--
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
In response:
1: VA has been very clear since our road show that we intend to show profitability in 2001. The reason that we are not profitable is that we have been spending our cash to expand so that we can effectively compete. That is -why- companies go public and take in investment. If you don't think we are a good investment, then don't invest in us, I'm okay with that. Our investment in MySQL is part of what made the gpling of mysql possible, but again, it's not clear you want to understand this. I'm also okay with this.
2: Yep, I'm aware of this, and the lawyers are working on it. But just because SF doesn't have a privacy policy in place doesn't mean that we can repeal the GPL. So chill. I think you are also intimating that we are going to rip people's software off and do our own...I don't really understand your complaint, I suppose. If we take code and create new oss software from it, that's okay. You do know how the GPL and BSD licences work, right?
As far as stock price and such goes, people are going to sell, people are going to buy, that's what happens in a market.
So there you go.
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
Pres, SVLUG
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
Plenty of e-commerce sites are coaxed into using this alpha quality software.
-o Disclaimer: My employer doesn't even agree with me about C indentation style o-
I have adapted portions of the ColdFusion Fusebox methodology (http://www.fusebox.org/).
This technique makes perhaps excessive use of includes for code organisation, but it seems to work (with adaptation) for a range of situations...ASP, PHP, Python.
technoshamanic resistance within hyper-transgressive ontology
Microsoft software has enough problems when it is being fully pushed by Microsoft. At my place of work we happen to use a product that was based on that piece of crap called MSDE, and it absolutely terrible. FYI, MSDE was abandoned (hence why it is free) my M$ for MS SQL.
I strongly suggest that no-one use MSDE for anything except a doorstop.
-o Disclaimer: My employer doesn't even agree with me about C indentation style o-
Do you think that the internet is run by geeks who can run trans-continental fiber connections? Nope, the internet is growing because companies are pumping money into it. Our world is run on money, if you think that VA is the only entity which has alterior, money driven motives, then you have another thing coming.
-o Disclaimer: My employer doesn't even agree with me about C indentation style o-
I'm probably missing something, but can anyone explain how the BSD license differs from public domain? In both cases, anyone may take the work and make it proprietary.
---
Zardoz has spoken!
Oper on the Nightstar
There was nothing wrong with the original MySQL license. It was open source, free software.
The only restriction was if you wanted to make money directly from it (by selling it) you had to pay a small license fee.
What's wrong with that? NOT paying the license fee is morally wrong, because you are ripping off the good people who wrote the software for you. Why should you make profit from their work and they don't?
Being under the GPL now means that the applications one can use MySQL for are restricted.
Yet again another decent software package falls victim to the virus license.
--
Matt
Matt
You forgot a relevant link: LWN acquired by Tucows.com.
SQL engines are very complex beasts. There are just too many differences to bother with. Besides, why would Postgresql bother? Their top end is far more advanced with the Object relational stuff, and the storage manager stuff supports transactions and is much more stable in doing it. As for speed, great strides are being made in postresql. What does that leave?
You forgot Postgres
Thats all nice, Chris, but it doesn't answer the question.
Why is SourceForge lacking something as fundemental as a security policy for its users, to protect them, and not you?
..And has lacked it for 5 months straight?
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
Ha, interesting -- I didn't know LWN got gobbled up. Thanks for the heads up.
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
Why not? I could quite happily be a thorn in VA's side until they own up to what they did to us. Rather than do that, they protect their corporate image by sicking DiBona and VA's Department of Caring on anything bad to say about the company. Can you blame them? You don't have to be involved, really...so why do you even care what is said either way?
If you don't like me, dont follow what i'm doing. If you dont like my work, dont use it. Don't believe me? No problem -- You're not obligated to even listen. The only "sinking" here comes from people who don't have enough stones to call VA's practices into question.
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
I didn't say it was good, I only mentioned it was free :) ofcourse you can't expect it's top notch when it emulates sqlserver but at the same time it isn't. I never tried it, perhaps it's ok.
--
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
whatis.com has a nice definition of DBMS.
I think this is something that was long over due. There are tons of people who won't use it becuase of its license, I was one of them. A few of my projects that where sold to a few companys refussed to use MySQL with its old license. This should make the database market much more intersting, putting more presure on PostgreSQL and Oracle. Being thats its now open-source, maybe the important features its been missing will get added. (transactions and subselects :)
until (succeed) try { again(); }
www.chilisoft.com
ASP under UNIX. Ho yuss.
The Plan:
I mean, I love PERL. And I kinda see how I ought to get into PHP. But ASP is a lot easier to pick up.
Also, speaking as a manager, ASP programmers are a lot cheaper (you can even train up dirt cheap Visual Basic programmers who are a penny a dozen).
--
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
but I have to know.
Quite often I see people say something is "free as in speech" or "free as in beer".
What does that mean? I'm sure there are other people around here who wonder the same thing.
Any information on that would be helpful
----
Sad fact about my sig:
Unix is mysterious, and ancient, and strong. It's made of cast iron and the bones of heroic programmers of old -
You're statement that we are going to steal peoples oss ideas are laughable. You do -not- understand the GPL to any degree. It's all about stealing everyone elses ideas and code to create new ideas and code without reworking. The GPL recognizes that ideas are worthless without the implementation. The GPL makes implementing already discovered and new ideas easier.
Not that you care, but as far as your petulant cries about me and my department of addressing you: The only reason I post to reply to your emails is so that reasonable people who read slashdot can know the truth about VA and the way we do things.
Honestly, we'd love to make peace with any of our detractors including you, but we feel that it would be a complete waste of time with you, as you are acting unreasonably.
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
Pres, SVLUG
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
You're right, Chris. I'm sorry. VA's actions are above questioning. They are God, and to question God is heresy. Infact, anyone who even raises an eyebrow is insane, and must be burned at the stake. At the very least, VA's detractors should be dipped in water ; shall they sink, then they are pure -- shall they float, they are witches, and should be burnt at the stake! Burn the witches!!
How terribly misguided i've been, Chris. Now that you've shown me the light, I can ignore the two dozen or so emails i've recieved over the past 6 months from others who've been similarly screwed by the company you work for. As you point out, theyre all liars too. Then there's the matter of SourceForge being a ripoff of System 12, well, I guess I can forget about that too. After all, it was only 7 months worth of work and preparation on behalf of myself and the others. Water under the bridge, my friend.
Why? Simple! As you point out, its unreasonable for me or anyone else to even question the motives and business practices of your company.
sarcasm(off);
The fact is, Chris, you weren't even there. You werent involved with the dealings I had with Trae McCombs and others at VA during the timespan of April-December of '99. The only "truth" you know is what you've gleaned from your co-workers trying to cover their ass.
You can hide behind the GPL all you want. You know for a fact that it doesn't protect developers from having their work co-opted by a company such as VA, and putting their full-time employees to work on the task of replicating the work of volunteers. Soon the volunteers happily chipping away at the problem wont matter, and the idea they created becomes an intellectual property of the company. Thats precisely what happened with System 12. I think thats pretty much clear to everyone by now. McCombs isnt talking, Guntharp isn't talking, Biles isn't talking. Theyre too busy covering their collective asses.
To say VA is above doing the same thing to other OSS projects is laughable. Any company will do that. VA in particular has poured millions into an ant farm they expect to bear fruit for the company. The instant a good idea pops up that is of benefit to the company, VA will co-opt it, and leave the volunteers in the dust.
I cant speak for anyone else here, but you're insulting my intelligence with your froth. You're paid by VA to blow smoke up people's asses. Thats a fact. PAID. As in, VA gives you money to follow me around waving a big "Don't believe him! He's a WITCH! Burn the witch!!" sign. If you were actually impartial, i'd love to talk with you. Unfortunately, you arent.
You're a mouthpiece for a company. That means you're not free to say anything you want. You'de lose your job. I'm not interested in "making peace" with the assholes in your company. By the same token, I dont have any beef with you, personally, Chris. Infact, I've heard you're a nice guy in real life. When you take your tie off at the end of the day, you're a swell guy. The only problem is, its part of your job description to put out the flames. If you were truly objective about the situation, I'd love to clue you in.
The thing is, I refuse to believe you sleep with your tie on.
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
I am of course working on what I was told to me by trae and the rest. Those guys aren't talking because they've already talked with you and put their views before the world to see.
I am -not- paid by VA to lie or say things that I an ethically uncomfortable with. I have spent the last 2 years of my life building the company with the rest of the people here. I have hired or caused to be hired probably about 60 people. I hired trae, who hired tony. I interviewed Brian. I don't lie, I don't have to. If someone does something here at VA that pisses me off, they fix it or they convince me that it's the right thing to do. (Or I do more drastic things)
So if I tell you I'm interested in making peace, I am not lying. My ethics didn't go out the window just because VA went public. If VA was that kind of company do you think that you'd still have an account on /.? Don't you ever see the paradox in your saying that VA is an evil ursurping company on a site owned by VA?
You talk about the abilty to clue me in. So answer me this, you told everyone here you were developing a GTK widget repository, something that sourceforge was not designed to compete with. Is this true? You said you would "do some project hosting". Something which we were already doing and have been doing for five years. So where, tell me, did we do -you- wrong? Trae tells me that when he was talking to you about employment he asked to see the code you worked on for 7 months, and you had nothing to show him. That's what I know.
And , yes, there are people who have beefs with VA. That's going to happen. I'd love to make peace with them. But again, it is not possible to make peace with everyone. And I -do- have a personal beef with you, you are insulting the people who are my frends, and you are attacking a company that I love and had a strong hand in building. You call us assholes and the rest and say that I lie for an expedient paycheck. That's personal.
And ,all that said, your rant shows you do not understand, appreciate or grok the concepts of intellectual freedom behind the GPL. No one who does would ever not get the viral nature of the GPL. You can't co-opt (legally) GPL'd code into a proprietary product that you wish to redistribute. You know that, right? The way you talk about ideas make British Telecom and the MPAA look good.
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems.
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
Pres, SVLUG
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
In your reply, you said:I am of course working on what I was told to me by trae and the rest. Those guys aren't talking because they've already talked with you and put their views before the world to see.
/.? "
This isn't true. I've repeatedly asked Tony Guntharp and Trae McCombs to compare notes, going back as far as November '99. Never got a straight answer out of either of them. Contrary to your claim, neither of them have "put their views before the world to see". You're paid to do their work for them. Thats your job.
You also said:
"> My ethics didn't go out the window just because VA went public. If VA was that kind of company do you think that you'd still have an account on
Malda told me in an email not too long ago that he was feeling some pressure to do just that several times. It would be sort of stupid of you, because it would prove everything i've been trying to say in the first place. As for complaining about VA on a site OWNED by VA, where the hell else is there to go? Linux.com? Nope, VA owns that. Freshmeat? Nope, VA owns that too. Good luck.
And, you later said:
"So answer me this, you told everyone here you were developing a GTK widget repository, something that sourceforge was not designed to compete with. Is this true? You said you would "do some project hosting"."
We were clear with Trae from the beginning. We were attemping to unite the developers under one umbrella. We were going to do that by offering a giant component stockpile for GTK & QT developers. Music, graphics, soundbites, code, the works. Read the interview I did with Linux.com in November '99 if you don't believe me, its all there in black and white. In exchange for developers adopting our work, we would offer them free hosting space for their projects. Once we had amassed enough support, we felt that we would have been enough of an assett to VA that they would hire us. This was the entire reason I agreed to begin work on the project in the first place. 500,000 pageviews sustained for 6 months straight would guarantee me a position at VA, Trae claimed. Later I found out that Trae is NOT in a position to make such offers, and he had done this sort of thing to a number of people, and burned a number of people.
If you were VA, why would you bother to wait for a group of volunteers to do the work, when you could just as easilly put some of your own guys on the task 9 to 5? Why hire a dozen new people when you can do it with 3 that you've already got?
Now you know why Tony Guntharp doesn't talk, and Trae McCombs doesn't talk.
Keep trying Chris, you're starting to get it, I think.
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
Neither of those discuss anything regarding the reason why ColdStorage was mysteriously shitcanned out of nowhere, and what communication Guntharp or McCombs had with Brian Biles. Until that is settled, the song remains the same.
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie J. Poag
Bowie,
I don't talk because quite honestly I've nothing to say to you. I've stated publicly before about this matter and yet you contunue to call me a liar, a cheat and a thief. I've got nothing to say to you anymore as I have better things to do.