Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Withdraws Linux NTFS Threats
An Anonymous Coward writes: "http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/this-week/0084.html
has a post by one of the developers working on NTFS utilities for Linux, stating that Microsoft has dropped legal threats against them and apologized. Therefore, development of these NTFS utilities will continue." Our previous story was here.
Does linux ever threaten ms?
The anti-salmon
well, i didn't see that one coming.
someone DROPED legal actions for once? what's going on here?
I think that guy that cracked Slashdot is still posting articles.
I think that this, in addition to recent outburst of repeated posts, is a clear indication that the editors of /. have had a *long* week and are getting delirious.
Got Rhinos?
...Microsoft does take its (intellectual property) rights very seriously.
Does this mean that if M$ does not like one of it's competitor's ideas, that they can go ahead and bully them out of business, therefore acquiring the competition (and their IP) through a buyout?
"Microsoft has threatened us with litigation due to our support of Linux NTFS development, and we have dissolved our NTFS licensing agreements with Microsoft...," Merkley wrote in one of his e-mails. Merkey said he has no idea how it happened, but their e-mails first were posted on an Internet weekly Linux newsletter and reposted Tuesday on Slashdot.org. " Hmm... Possibly because email is not the secure communications medium that everyone thinks it is. I would consider a cordless phone safer than email for confidential communications - at least its broadcast does not go over a quarter mile or so.
I just think it's funny that emails are often times a culprit for the media to strike. Lord knows Microsoft has sent a few emails that they did not want to get out to the public... All it takes is one person and the forward button...
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
And also what about them using "sockets"?!?!
Play the same rules your enemy chose!
hmm. I guess the Marketing/Legal department at MS really does have its limits...
I'm *shocked*
is probably what the real juice of this story should be. You have to know that Merkey & company have some ace in the hole that they waved at Microsoft and made the M$ legal battalions cut and run. Or perhaps they agreed to give Microsoft some really sweet deal on their products under the table, and that appeased the beast enough to make a phony public apology. While I realize that this is pure speculation on my part, I am also aware that the data that I can see out there certainly does not offer one any real insight into why Microsoft would do a complete 180 degree turn from their normal M.O. That's kind of like expecting the Pope in Rome to suddenly convert to Taoism. Not very likely. I'm sorry to have to say it, but anytime a company as big and brash as Microsoft pulls a move like this, you have to know that the stuff you and I get to see is only the tip of the iceberg...
Windows is going the way of phlogiston...
Well this makes sense for MS, because it allows NTFS to live on, no matter how big linux gets. Really these people are writing something that MS should be writing. Its going to make an MS product easier to use in a mixed environment.
:)
MS just realized it a way to get free innovation.
-
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
M$ finally got enough flak from the press and the public that they had to do something to not look like the bad guys. M$ will just start trying to find another, more covert way to exercise some market muscle until this group, like others before them, is assimilated.
Phoenix
Guys, I don't think this is that great of a news... Microsoft is now resorting to the tactic of threatning to sue before their legal dept even looks at something. Then if there's bad publicity (ie it's posted on /.), then they withdraw. What if they sue a small person who can't get the word out? Then that person is screwed.
No one is really going to be free until nerd persecution ends.
The writing is on the wall as far as Microsoft's future is concerned. Why not take this as an opportunity to release the source code to NTFS?
It is not like there are companies standing in line to steal NTFS for use in another proprietary OS(or opensource, for that matter).
The truth is out there, I walked passed it getting on the T.
The List of Grievances with Slashdot.
Anyone who looks at what is happening in the computer industy soon begins to realize that people and companies are aligning themselves for the "holy" wars that are about to come.
There are two side in the war the Unix and the Microsoft site. Even Apple with OS X has moved to the Unix side. Just look. IBM, Dell, Corel, and Others who have been shafted by MS are moving over and preparing for battle. This article is another sign with many others that Microsoft is losing the battle. Just look how they've push up their prices. Could this be because they are suspecting that they will not be making as much in the future?
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In a world with out fences,
who needs gates?
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Sweet karmic justice, but highly unlikely.
curious...
i'm waiting for the big "PSYCHE!" press release to come out of redmond.
and april 1st doesn't roll around till... april..
could it be a typo?
WHAT GIVES? THIS NEWS IS DEFECTIVE!
"I hope I don't make a mistake and manage to remain a virgin." - Britney Spears
In other words, did they appear to take licensed information and then mis-appropriate it? If his was the case, then MS could have been justified in their threats, or at least in trying to protect this information.
--
Your Servant, B. Baggins
This isn't consistent with our knowledge of this enemy
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
In a big corporation, such as Microsoft, IBM, etc..., the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing sometimes. Things can get skewed out of proportion and bad managers make stupid decisions. Don't make a bigger deal than it is... instead, praise Microsoft when they do something right. Send them emails saying you are glad they are making the correct decisions. Lord knows they get enough flak when they make the wrong ones. If you really want to see things change, TELL the companies when they are pleasing you, not just when they screw up!
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Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
I think it's a good idea that MS is finally settling to work more with Linux. I have a network system comprised of both Linux (dealing with underground network servers) and Windows (dealing with workstations). When they work together, they are an unbeatable solution. I think if we make Linux and Windows work together, we may actually get benefits from both worlds. And hey, why limit ourselves to only 1 option when we can use several at the same time?
Check out http://www.textosterone.com ! It'll help you find the cheapest textbooks and other books all over the interne
With the outcome of the anti-trust case still uncertain, the last thing that Microsoft needs is bad publicity. If they were to actually sue someone for trying to improve Linux's NTFS compatibility, it would be nothing but bad publicity. It would also reinforce the government's case against them in the public eye.
I like to think that the NTFS developers knew this and simply told Microsoft where to stick it. That's certainly what I would have done. Microsoft, seeing that attempts at intimidation had backfired, knew there was nothing they could really do that wouldn't cost them more than it was worth in the long run. So they backed down and "apologized" before the situation turned into a PR disaster.
One of the most effective tools anyone can use against a company like Microsoft is a good publicist. Someone who knows how to attract the attention of the media and therefore the public is every bit as frightening to a corporation like Microsoft as its lawyers are to everyone else.
Microsoft may or may not lose their legal appeal. However they've already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. Win or lose in court, business as usual is over for them.
Lee Reynolds
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
This shows that Microsoft is scared. Not only of the public opinion but off what linux truly represents. Linux represent people controling what thier computers do. Not some company tells you how your computer should work.
Company A decides to make it easier to port things back and forth between Windows NT and Linux. Company B (Microsoft) originally decides they don't want these tools. They'd rather make the tools themselves, but won't because it would ruin marketshare at the time.
Then Company B decides to be crafty. Sure, other people can make the tools. Symantec makes a defragmenter. Adaptec makes a CD-burner driver. Company A makes some tools to get into Linux and WinNT cross-compatibility easier.
Company B buys Symantec's defragmenter and makes it a critical part of the system. They license the CD-burner driver for a rock-bottom price to use in their new Media Player to burn music easier. They buy Company A's tools to force them out of the market, or they just buy Company A entirely.
I like Microsoft products. I like Windows 2000. I think it's a good example of bucking the trend of bad programming plaguing the entire industry. However, I don't like Microsoft's business practices, and this seems like a devil in disguise.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Jeff V. Merkey knows something interesting. I think we can all be glad they backed off.
For the microsoft developer
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
Merkey said Norman described the fracas as "an apparent miscommunication. Andshe also said 'please don't post those e-mails.' "
This suggests that if "those e-mails" had not been posted, MS would not be backing off. The internet hasn't changed the state of intellectual property (as some might think) where companies are now trying to take away the rights of every independent hacker or developer. They always have. It's just that every piddling lawsuit that large corporations file, every cease-and-desist, every vague threatening letter from their law firms, is now posted far and wide. These things have always been going on, but we never heard about them. Microsoft knows that if every time they threaten anyone, it will be all over the net, they will look even worse than they do now (and maybe they realize more now than before how bad that can be for them).
So keep posting them! If their lawyer tells you not to, it ain't 'cause it's in YOUR best interest.
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The truth is out th- oh, wait, here it is...
on priciple alone, this should be moderated down.
although, i thought the original thread which this article is based on was a worthwhile read. It made microsoft appear to have a bit of humanity. maybe the bit was flipped by electronic interferance though.
Can we really be sure they aren't working on their own distribution of linux?
I can see it now:
Red Hat, SuSe, Mandrake, Microsoft Windex 2001.
There is a catch somewhere, I trust the minds at Slashdot to find it. There is always something for Microsoft to gain from their moves......
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Some people are alive, only because it is against the law to Kill them!
Damn MicroSoft!
...er...
...appologies?
Again, as always, will they keep on impeeding on free software. Once more, they'll fsck with us and keep us from interoperating with their screwed up file system and even more screwy legal department by sending us
Never mind.
"It all kind of got out of proportion," Merkey said of the threats. He spoke about them only after some of his private e-mail was intercepted and posted on the Internet.
I don't think the linux-kernel mailing list is exactly "private e-mail". I wouldn't expect Pat to know what a mailing list is, but come on here. It seems as if Pat didn't even bother digging up the post that started it all. I wonder if Pat even asked Merkey about how the incident flared up.
sheesh, basic story research...
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Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
Who fed the 800lb gorilla his bananna?
Microsoft aggravates my tourettes syndrome.
Every once in a while you get an educated, flameless post on this site. Thank you!
A speech...
Poll Mastah
(Hint: the last option, although it looks like the usual obligatory nonsense choice, isn't actually nonsensical :-P)
Poll Mastah
>Microsoft has dropped legal threats against them and apologized.
Wow!
Microsoft, I appologize for telling everyone I know that your software is crap.
Windoze sucks!
Ooops, sorry, did it again.
Geoff
Everything I've heard about the Windows 2000 filesharing protocol says that it's proprietary and breaks Samba. So much for networking.
I personally use NT as a very nice X-terminal for my *nix boxes. The window manager actually works with my mouse's funky features, and it frees me up from having to configure the fsck out of the Linux window managers. (I'll probably end up switching anyhow. One more flavor of *nix can't hurt.)
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
When will Microsoft stop? Why stop a repair tool? And why not let the masses create tools....i ask why.
You don't see the guy who wrote NTFSDOS getting any malarkey from M$. Isn't that tool basically the same? Making NTFS accessible from another OS. The only difference is NTFSDOS happens to be platformed for an OS that Microsoft owns.
When I was growing up, the kids a few blocks away had this really fun thing they would do to newbies to their block.
They'd take you over to meet "Bud", a really friendly dog. Bud was in on it, too.
They'd say "Look at Bud! He's a friendly irish setter. Go pet him.
Bud sat near the porch, tail wagging, with this friendly, eager look on his face.
Of course, as soon as you got close, he would suddenly growl and leap at you, chasing you down the hill til his chain ran out, biting and snarling the whole way.
The kids would roar with laughter. During my introduction, my pants were torn a bit, but no broken skin, forutnately!
Anyway, welcome to Microsoft "Bud".
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
Yeah, yeah. Lots of "OhmyGAWD, they apologised", "They feel the heat", etc., etc. posts. No one seems to notice that this opens the door for YAISMTMTFS (Yet Another Industrial Strength Multi Tasking Multi Threaded File System) for ALL operating systems. NTFS, especially V5, (fragmentation aside) is fast, stable, hard to corrupt and reasonably secure. IMHO, it's one of the few really good things to come out of Redmond - period.
/. who have an inordinate amount of Karma. ;o)
Perhaps the Redmond boys _have_ finally seen the light. After all, they employ geeks. Geeks who are exposed to other geeks, who have not been assimilated. They are, I'm sure like you and I - interested in all the latest cool stuff, including Open Source, open standards and new and fresh ideas. This stuff can't be filtered out by any firewall I know of. (Except MS Proxy, maybe, but that's because it tends to filter THE WHOLE FSCKING NET! GA....oops, sorry, lost meself for a sec. Back to Karma Whoring...)
One's IQ does not necessarily drop 40 points once you walk into the M$ campus, does it? Is it posssible that they do some sort of black magic ceremony that instantly turns you from a moral person into one of Bill's evil minions? I think not. I think that we are indeed affecting the Microsoft mind set - for the better. This wonderful movement called Open Source has spread to the Campus, and started to change things for the better. How could it not? Yes, Hugh is alive and well in the collective. Bet on it.
Besides, there are (or were, anyway) a few M$ employees here on
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
Wouldn't the Linux community and the DOJ have had a massive bear trap for Mr. gates and company? shit we should have let them do it just so we could get them by the short and curlies
Read my plan to save the Bengals
I'm almost sure now that there's some very pro-Linux persons in Microsoft management. Now, all world knows that Linux has working NTFS, and that even Microsoft recognizes it works so good that is scares them. Now think, how much would it require to get this recognition by conventional means? And with stupid legal threat (which is in fact very clever trick from deeply hidden Linux agent) this is done in days. Good work, Microsoft people.
-- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
You think you know someone...
>"It all kind of got out of proportion," Merkey said of the threats
0 0week36/1073.html
> Merkey said he has no idea how it happened, but their e-mails first were posted on an Internet weekly Linux newsletter and reposted Tuesday on Slashdot.org.
Well. Jeff V. Merkey is the one that started this thing. He posted dozen of alarming messages on the kernel-mailing list, then started and maintained a thread/flamewar of several hundred of articles that lasted more than a month.
And then he posts this press-release. Clearly, this guy has an ego problem.
Before moderating me down as flamebait, check the original thread: http://boudicca.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/20
Then look at the thing getting into epic proportion, getting down to name-calling, explanation that linux sucks plain and clear, lies about Novell performance, mixed with apologies and insults from Jeff M to about everyone on the list.
Then, you'll have the hilarious post zhere he explains that all this things come from the fact he have three brain, or something like this.
Clearly, this guy have a problem. I wouldn't accuse Microsoft here.
Cheers,
--fred
If you had PROOF you wouldn't need FAITH.
Damn. I bit.
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Peter
Ever read an EULA? COmmercial software got no warraty whatsoever, unless you buy support. WHich you can do for linux as well, if that company wont hold it's promises regarding it's support, it'll go baraboom...
And Linux for Gaming?! errrrr.....
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
This piece of responsiveness was forced by the position being too obviously wrong. Judging from all of the MicroTurd responses around here, I'd say that there are lots of MS programers with nothing better to do than read Slashdot.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Today a snow storm swept through Hell paralyzing all traffic and causing great damage. The governor of Hell, Satan Merkatrig, was quoted as saying "if Microsoft withdraws litigation again I'm going to be up to my horns in snow!"
The governor has asked for a Federal disaster declaration and FEMA has responded by opening a branch office in the region and is busy staffing it. It is said that Bill Clinton will make an inspection tour of Hell tomorrow and while an entry visa has been issued, whether the Governor of Hell will issue an exit visa to the President is in doubt.
Code commentary is like sex.
If it's good, it's VERY good.
My office has been taken over by iPod people.
Okay, it would've been nice if they had given them some specs to NTFS 5. But it's widely known that in the corporate paradigm, you never guide your foe's knife to your own heart. Still, it would've been a nice olive branch gesture on Gates' part.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
My first thought was that this was (Em)Balmer's doing. Trying to make for a "kinder gentler monop^H^H^H^H^HMicrosoft". There was something else recently where they backed off being so goddammed hardcore all the freekin' time.
A contribute to a monopoly.
B contribute to a free code.
Oh yeah, you need to eat. Seek and you will find.
Free software will not solve all of our problems, but it will eliminate the problems of comercial software. Microsoft is evil.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
They may have dropped the case to stop attention getting to it from the mainstream press... or more likely, because it is based on the assumption that Linux is a threat to MS, and MS refuses to admit that.
Darwin took part in the voyage to the Galapogos Islands in his (very) early years. Toward the latter part of his life, however, after all of the detailed experimentation that he had done, he publicly refuted his own results. He became a Christian during his middle age, published critical analyses of those carrying on his early work on evolution and attempted to inform the public of the errors in his early conclusions. Predicably, there was no publicity given to the release of his newest papers.
Anyone who considers Charles Schultz an atheist is mistaken. Schultz was unabashedly Christian. He made Christian references throughout the entire time he was creating Peanuts. He included his viewpoint when others thought he would totally destroy his readership due to a lack of popular support.
Next time, you might want to try and look into the history underlying your assumptions, instead of just picking a bunch of names from M$ Encarta.
Sarge