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Xbox To Include Censorchip
yesthatguy writes: "According to an MSNBC Article, Microsoft 'plans to voluntarily insert a V-chip-like control in its new video game console.' More details are to be released at E3 in May. I wonder if this will catch on, or if it is just a Microsoft move to appease the government, or if, as the article suggests, it will reduce game censorship, and allow consumers to censor the games themselves."
I'm going to tell you how to parent, because I think I do a pretty good job.
Ya of course you do, every parent thinks that...so what?
In fact, i disagree with some of the points you make. My parents didn't follow your plan at all really; yet they are good parents. What makes a parent good is 1) how the kid feels about them when all is said and done and 2) how well the kid fitted into society (ie, did they become a serial killer or not).
the problem is you seem to assume that all kids that play violent video games and watch R rated movies and listen to 'explicit lyrics' turn into sex crazed killers. HOwerver that is a large body of evidence that proves otherwise. Just about every in my HS did those things, and none have become psychopaths. I suspect the same can be said for all of america (since most school kids dont go around shooting people).
The way I see it, if all televisions have V-Chips in them, then there is no longer an excuse for the FCC to regulate content on the airwaves. I look forward to live hard-core pr0n on broadcast tv, tagged with the appropriate v-chip setting so that people who do not want to see hard-core porno for free, can set their tv's to automatically filter it out.
Same thing for video games. The sooner all video game machines have v-chips, the sooner we can get the most extreme perverted stuff in games for everybody - no need to have the stores like Wal-Mart censor what they sell, anyone who doesn't want to see live nude girls on their x-box (or should that be their XXX-box) can set their v-chip to filter them out.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Who says it's not good parenting? You? Just because you don't believe it is, doesn't make it so. And also, who's to say that the parent didn't explain WHY the content was going to be blocked to the child AND block it? There is nothing wrong with censorware that is enforced on the user side.
"Burn Hollywood Burn"
*snicker* ;)
No comment.
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Looks like Microsoft has found its niche, Entertainment, not Computing.
Adults can stop their kids by teaching them, not by censoring them.
What is a VChip if now censorship?
Will the real Bruce Perens Please Stand Up
ummm a rating level is different than a physically implemented method of restricting ACCESS to that rating level.
Yeah it's ok for your 14 year old to play Half Life as long as 1. you don't have real weapons in the house and 2. he doesn't have any enemies at school.
Just kidding, have to say something tongue-in-cheek once in awhile. I support the view that parenting is your responsibility. Ultimately Smith and Wesson isn't responsible when someone gets shot, just like Microsoft won't be responsible if your kid has violent dreams from playing games on windoze. Personally I think if you teach your children well, and you have a tight relationship with them, your kids won't go on shooting sprees and they'll know the difference between cartoon violence and how things are in the real world.
While most people would think it's bad, it's in fact the right direction a game box manufacturer must go.
Let look at the market in Japan. People have always been saying Sega technically made better box than PS, but PS still sold much more than Sega's boxes.
The major problem is that Sega actually have some x-rate games. I personally think it's kinda cool, but those parents(especailly in Japan) who made the purchase decision will frown upon these and buy PS for their kids instead.
A video game developer told me PS and Sega has sole right to decide which game should be released and which shouldn't, unlike the PC game market. Sega is responsible for the appearance of x-rate games in their series.
Microsoft knows that X-Box market would be like PC game market, where they would have problem restricting x-rated games publishing. Making censorware is a right direction for them for the market domination.
Fair enough, nebby; I'm not a parent, either.
I just don't like to see methods like this used as a substitute for talking to the kids. If you've seen American Beauty, the military guy is a good example of this. He could have had a fairly normal family if he could take the time to talk to and understand his son. And his son could, if he could trust his father to listen to him, and not to beat him. But they're trapped instead, because neither one of them can make the first move towards understanding, trapped by fear of rejection or punishment.
This is what happens when you don't communicate with people enough, or don't make an effort to listen to them, or understand their point of view. If you do, then you can try to teach them morals, and convince them that something is right or wrong or even just a good idea. If you don't, then even if you can stop them from doing whatever behavior you don't like, you still aren't explaining to them why it's bad. You're fixing the symptom, but allowing the problem to spread--it's a very Western idea, but not necessarily a good one.
By the way, I like Half-Empty; I haven't been there in a while, though. It's still pretty chaotic, I take it?
Will the real Bruce Perens Please Stand Up
You can't very well have a person carding a kid everytime they want to use a R rated video game, can you?
Well its nice to know that you support descrimination. Last time I checked it wasnt the law to make it so that minors couldnt watch an r rated movie without an adult. Most theaters do it so they can sell another ticket (If you want to see this movie, you have to bring an adult with you...). I worked at a movie theatre for a good amount of time and I can tell you, that its bunk. There is no reason that a 16 year old boy/girl shouldnt be able to go see an R rated movie, because the MPAA has raters with a different dogma then these kids and their parents (IF they have parents). This is a war on the youth, and if you support that, well, fuck you. Teens and children are people too, if you put this on a system, your going to find your kids becoming criminals (because of the DCMA) much sooner then before. If your kids respect your wishes (becase respect is earned) then they might not want to play, and to destroy the want (say by not playing it infront of them) is better then to make them punished for having fun like daddy. It is censorship no matter how you look at it, and the difference from this and childproof lids is that medicine can kill a stupid child, a video game wont.
Fight censors!
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
Hardware vendors are not responsible for violence; the people who commit violent acts are. If the offenders are minors, the parents share in the responsibility.
If violent games do cause violent behavior (cite a scientific study, not just a news story), then maybe this is worthwhile.
This is ultimately just a way for bad parents to feel less guilty about being bad parents.
My mom is not a Karma whore!
O'Toole's Commentary on Murphy's Law:
No kidding. I hope when the knee-jerkers are adults, they have fun hovering over their kids' shoulders 24-hours a day. I'm sure their children will just love that. Oh, and don't forget to leave the gun and liquor cabinets unlocked, the Playboys on the coffee table, and don't even think about setting a root password on your computer. Telling your kids not to mess around with any of those will be perfectly sufficient.
Microsoft doing this is also a good thing because the game-makers will feel less pressure to sanitize the adult games. Or I suppose the knee-jerkers would prefer the situation where game-makers get called up before congress every time they make a game showing the rape of that chick from Diff'rent Strokes.
Cheers,
BECAUSE...for 90% of the users of this tool...they arent parenting in the begining and are substituting this technology for good parenting. Triggerlocks? You dont need a fucking goddamn triggerlock if your gun is secure in a locked cabinet to begin with now, eh? It just creates LAZY parents. And god knows(shooting today) theres enough all ready.
...clean good AMERICAN themes
Hopefully the X-box for sale in Canada will filter out the nasty AMERICAN themes!
Is that a real poncho? I mean, is that a Mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
Heh, in Canada and most(all?) of Europe, codeine is available over the counter (though somewhat controlled) in a tylenol(paracetamol)/asprin + 8mg codeine form. Thus, the codeine comment was a bit inappropriate; however I totally agree with you about education and common sense, that's how I was raised, and while I'm only 19 at the time, I think I've turned out pretty well. Being around guns and playing wolf3d with dad when I was younger didn't twist my mind. Hell, dad made me memorize the basic rules to gun safety and be able to take them apart and put them back together (seriously) before he'd let me shoot one. To this day, I've *never* pointed a weapon at a person, loaded or not (because unloaded guns are treated as loaded, duh) and hope I never have to.
:P
But this is getting off topic, so I'll stop
Matt
Don't take life so seriously; it isn't permanent.
This is crappy because it will be yet another way to control children without actually parenting them. We rely on technology rather than responsibility, gimicky hardware rather than supervision. This technology will not solve any problems; it will be used so parents can use a TV as a babysitter with slightly less guilt.
Some parents will use this responsibily; as for the rest... Five years from now, we will be reading about a renewed uproar over violent video games, saying all console makers should be as responsible as Microsoft and stop letting kids see adult games. Never mind that it's the parents job, not Nintendo's or Sony's.
My mom is not a Karma whore!
How dare those bastards make it possible for parents to keep their children from playing violent video games! This is censorship at it's worst, the way they're making it so I don't have to wonder what games my kids have been playing while I was out getting groceries!!
Thank god it's the X-Box not the Playstation 2 that has this control, since we all know that Microsoft is going to fail horribly with the X-Box anyway, seeing as Microsoft sucks, and the X-Box doesn't run Linux!
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"Don't trolls get tired?"
...and now watch people bash Microsoft for incorporating the same thing into a game console.
This puts the power to censor potentially offensive material in video games in the _only_ place it belongs: the home.
Any parent who doesn't want their kids playing M-Rated games on a machine can set a switch, and take that kind of responsibility away from the retailers and game makers who don't really want it and don't really do much with it.
The ESRB ratings are a massive failure when you consider that it's enforced by the teenagers and young adults who are the primary workforce at retail stores that sell games. Since the ratings were introduced some n years ago, I've honestly never seen a single child or under-17 teenager prevented from purchasing an M Rated title, which are some of the biggest selling games available (i.e. Resident Evil, Parasite Eve).
This is clearly a marketing stunt. Microsoft supplies the API and OS for the games on their consoles, and thus could easily create an API to provide this functionality. Nothing is stopping any other manufacturer or even MS from adding V-Chip like features without adding the chip itself. By going with the V-Chip approach Microsoft gets more noise made about the X-Box, appeases the government (don't bother explaining to them technology), and actually appeases parents on the issue of buying a console - by creating the impression that the facility is there people are likely to buy the console for this reason. In fact I would be curious to know how many of the people who bought TVs because of the V-Chip ( there are some ) actually take advantage of it.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
In other words, they want things to be as encrypted and secretive and copy-proof as possible. If they can get more control of a system by adding a V-Chip, so be it. Whatever it takes to get more control - so they can abuse and/or sublet that control - Microsoft will do. At all levels.
IBM have seen this one coming. Read their peace-love-linux ads carefully and you will see that IBM have learnt about Microsoft since M$ upended the chessboard halfway through passionfingering OS/2. Did you know that Windows NT was originally called OS/2 NT, and the name only changed when lots of copies of Windows 3.0 were sold?
Committment to Linux and open standards is IBM's answer. ``Keep the playing field level (and the chess-board upright) and we'll do OK,'' seems to be their reasoning. A far cry from IBM of the '70s. Microsoft, OTOH, want hidden decisions, secret b*llsh*t ingredients, maximum authority, endless pain for users and tech support people.
Sorry if this sounds rantish, but that's Microsoft's basic motivation for doing the V-Chip. At least, it's the only reason which dovetails with the temperament of the beast.
Expect to see one in CE next. ``I'm sorry, your PalmPC is low on licencing. Please plug it in to a registered Microsoft licence recharging station and keep your fingers clear of your wallet until recharge is complete, in case your credit cards implode.''
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
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This sounds like you have parents who are unwilling/unable to take the steps necessary to establish and maintain parental checks and balances over you. This does not render the idea pointless in general; rather, it makes it pointless in your specific case.
Hopefully, you will not turn out like Eric Harris or Dylan Klebold.
Torg, come out of the spaceship. Nothing can stop Torg.
A V-Chip is a way to enforce what a parent tells a kid. Trust me, if a kid wants to watch a blocked show (and cant find a workaround), that parent will find themselves embroiled in a detailed discussion of why that show should be allowed.
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Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Come on folks, even IE has a Content Advisor (although I don't know how many folks actually use it), so is this such a big surprise?
It's a good marketing idea for Microsoft too, because like it or not, this will allow them to sell it to the same parents who are using their V-Chip enabled TVs and Content controlled DVD players. Of course we know that none of the software providers are actually using these features, so if it can get MS one more sale then they're going to offer it.
Before I start, let me just state that I'm in no way judging you as a (future) parent.
Just tell your kids why they shouldn't be doing 'bad' things and give them good reasons!
The problem with a technological rather than social solution is that it only applies to one specific type of device, won't work in the long run, and it DOESN'T teach respect or self-control to kids.
If you show a kid WHY they shouldn't be doing something, they'll be less likely to want to do it than if you just say "Don't do this... because I say so!"
Technological measures can always be circumvented if the kid really wants to do something anyway!
Would you know if you restricted your child's access to this material at home but they were gaining access through a friend who didn't have these limitatons?
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Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
What exactly are you referring to?
I don't know how exactly a V-chip works, but if it's just some software that you can switch 'on' or 'off' (maybe even with some nontrivial keycombination or even a password that can be set) then i think sooner or later the kid will figure it out (maybe find the note with the password) if it really wants to. I think the only thing that'd really work would be some kind of key, that can be removed (and that should be treated like a key, and not left lying next to the Box).
While i agree with above statement, i feel it should be added, that it's probably a good idea to explain to the kid why you don't want him to watch some movies or play some games, especially not unsupervised. That would avoid the kid regarding this as just another stupid rule or even a challenge.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
how does it know?
HOW DOES IT KNOW?
>>The reality of it is that HUMANS ARE VIOLENT!
There is a difference between Escapism and Reality, and it is important to keep the distinction, as in shooting people versus playing war games. IIRC the fairy tales, aimed at very small children, can be pretty gruesome. The trick is to have the violence in the non-real world of Escapism INSTEAD OF the real world. Between such as RoadRunner-Coyote and most of Walt Disney's stuff, it seems like Walt Disney has done more to promote "moral decay", since it promotes disrespect for authority as a "real world" desirable quality. (Expressed badly, but maybe you can see the point.)
My four-year-old son knows how to quit just about any computer game he plays, and then for fun he starts opening folders and windows and clicking on all the cool looking icons. He started Quake a couple times this way even though I'd buried it deep within embedded folders.
I supervise as much as I can, but with two kids, they're not always in the same room, etc., and I would love to have a game machine that I know won't let the kid pop in the wrong cartridge, in the same way I would like it safe from blowing up if he pressed the wrong button.
So just chill on the "idiot" namecalling and recognize there's a value to many consumers for this feature even if you yourself don't want it.
I have Unix underpants.
Another great attempt by Microsoft to limit quality content on the system. Wonder if the content is blocked if you'll get a blue screen...
--The space between my ears was intentionally left blank--
Since kids are usually adept at climbing at a very young age. You are also covered if you forget to put the game back. Better safe than sorry. Its not like this will restrict people from playing games if they don't use the controls.
However, I wonder if this will lead to a software V-Chip in Windows?
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The x-box needs a DVD content control chip anyway, so this seems like a logical extension.
What it all comes down to is making life easier for developers. By simply taking advantage of the chip, parents can block anything they do not want the kids to see. Great examples would be:
- A Soldier of Fortune port with both the no gore and normal versions.
- Giants, with the lockout turning blood green and adding underwear.
- Games could even incorporate the German style violence workaround: With the v-chip on, all life forms become robots.
This is a good thing. Really. Too bad Microsoft is doing it.
If it is worthwhile to bring children into the world, then it is worthwhile to make the effort to raise them properly. All the V-chips in the world can't substitute for it, and they're unnecessary if you're doing it.
And the brethren went away edified.
I for one intend to introduce extra salacious material onto my video games.
Anatomically correct Mario, anyone?
Goat sex free since 2001
actually no. Limiting access to the actual system is different than limiting access to specific content. It begins with one form of content for one system for one group of people...and then it snowballs.
The real purpose is to keep you from playing the new AntiTrust Action strategy game.
Microsoft thinks it sends the wrong message to kids who might otherwise grow up to be compliant consumers, as patriotism demands.
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Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I'm sure they are going to allow the parent to sensor the games. I know I'd want this functionality. I don't see them automatically shooting the game maker in the foot by making a game they design for the system not function as the programmer intended. I have to respect the business decision to get into this market. From what I've heard, the microsoft games are pretty good. I personally prefer games where I can shoot things and make body parts fly in every direction, but that's me. :) I consider that games are not mission critical, and don't require uptime, or reliability. This is the perfect market for microsoft.
The most important thing any republican needs to know.
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I find your lack of lack of faith disturbing.
It is perfectly reasonable for you to want to filter content, where the qualities that you want to filter are a function of your values.
The probably that the V-Chip or a corporate-sponsored ratings board, will happen to coincide your values (or any other human being's) is vanishingly small.
When you let the corporations, or the government, or a mysterious focus group, select what is acceptable and what isn't, you are letting someone else shape your kid's mind. MPAA ratings are a great example of this. Unless you are a media expert, I bet you don't have any idea where "the line" is between PG-13 and R movies. I can tell you right now, that qualities such as sex and violence are only a minor parameters. And it's pretty sad what qualities (e.g. product placements) are left out of the function altogether, or are even selected in reverse to commond sense.
Filtering according to your own values may be good. Industry-standard filtering is slavery, brainwashing, and an asset in someone's marketing portfolio. If you love your kid, don't sell him.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
btw, I'm 27, am married, and have a kid, so before everyone goes off flaming me, just think about it for a second or two. Is what you're saying technology's job, or is it your job. I think you need to understand that first.
I'm getting tired of watching so many people try to pawn parenting off on others: teachers are not there to parent your kids. the TV is not there to parent your kids. your computer is not there to parent you kids. that is what the parent is for, thus the name "parent".
One Can Never Own Enough Musical Instruments...
When the government passes laws that REALLY censor games, what do we say? Let the PARENTS deal with the issue. When Microsoft (or anyone else) introduces a system that actually allows parents to deal with the issue without having to follow their kids around 24/7, we still bitch?
Cmon..this isn't the same as government censorship or even censorware software in public libraries..Microsoft is simply trying to give parents a choice..Would you prefer they go the route of the other major console manufacturers, who just refuse to publish Ultra-violent games?
no but you can prevent situations from occuring. Password protect your goddamn system.
And this is so different from v-chipping because...?
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
It is not a tyranny. Nobody forces you to use these features.
Bachelor Party and the female version Bachelorette Party
Beat 'em and Eat 'em(due to the Atari's lo-res, I first thought the guy was holding a bazooka! Gameplay is like Kaboom, but instead of losing a bucket when you miss, the ladies fart)
Burning Desire and the female version Jungle Fever
Custer's Revenge
Knight on the Town
Idiot. The best form of "censorship" for your kids is called SUPERVISION. Don't let your kid on the computer unless you KNOW what they are doing. Oh yeah, that's right, that would require effort. Do you REALLY want Microsoft being your kids' nanny? Really? Miche (and yes, I am a parent, before you start with that lame "you don't have kids, do you" shit)
...my Netscape session under Linux? I went there to see if this thing was Internet capable. Strikes me that the "V-Chip" will likely be used to TRACK what you play, as well as sensor it. Far be it from Microsoft to try such tactics. They wouldn't design their program registration applets to upload information about what's on your hard drive either... Oh wait, they DID do that, didn't they. Of course, I might mind that less if downloading information from my HD actually made their products WORK. Needless to say I don't have a lot of faith that this company doesn't have alterior motives for putting a V-chip-like device in their machines, and I'm not really that enticed about the idea of a V-chip anyway. Concerned your kids might be playing games that you consider inappropriate? LOOK AT THEM. Have rules about when they are allowed to play games, and lock the machine up when they're not allowed. You don't need a V-chip. You just need to be a responsible parent. Heaven forbid. Can't be that? DON'T HAVE KIDS. Think I'm bitter? Sarchastic? Nah, not me. -- I'm brash
Wow what a wonderful display of your elistism. How does Mommy "sacrafice" for her child in the real-world, pray tell? By giving up that second job at the Kmart...or by deciding to work part-time at the firm while little jr. flounders around with the nanny? In this world (especially with the downturn in the economy) "real" people do not always have the economic ability to spend enough minutes with their child (even good children can turn a tv on all by themselves by the time they are 2, 3, 4...etc.). It can be helpful...not just for little children but also for teens...to be able to insert a v-chip into a device and program out unsuitable programming from entering your child's brain. This is not bad parenting...just a helpful device.
No...it's okay...I wasn't using my Civil Liberties anyway
"Turning humans into robots or zombies (for the sake of a family version) is a pain in the ass," says Cliff Bleszinski, lead designer for Epic,
So is turning a glorified level maker into a company spokesperson because he looks good in DKNY shirts.
In a way though, they are correct. Let's say you have two kids, one who's 14 and one who's 9. It would probably be ok with you if the 14 yr. old played Half Life, but you wouldn't want the 9 year old to. What happens then when one is and the other one's in the same room? V-chips don't help this, so in that regard they're useless.
Sorry about the incoherency... it's late.
I don't mean to judge you or anything,
but when I was 5, I was playing Castle Wolfenstien,
Now I have Excellent Hand-Eye coordination,
and I have respect for Guns, I have one sitting in my room right now, I just know not to play with it, and only to use it when appropriate.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The only Slash-site i've read enough to be part of the world of moderation is MacSlash, and it seems to be very similer (if not identical) to Slashdot's moderation system.
It would be interesting to hear the experences of other Slash-sites...
Say, V-Chip as Violence Hardware Accelerator. You just set up violence level and blood color and voila - hardware accelerated blood and gibs! Only supports Direct3D API, though.
1) You can't be certain that the DVD drive is literally a 'standard' drive. They have contracted someone to make a massive volume of them, and could easily specify some little quirk that makes software control easier. Its not as if they are going down to their local hardware shop and picking up a crate of whatever DVD drive is on special offer.
2) You can produce access restriction systems that are implemented entirely in software. They could do something similar to CSS on DVD. Its easy to break, but its illegal to break it. Not a problem for pirates because they are already breaking one law so it matters little that they break another. But no legitimate company could release a product that bypassed the scheme.
3) By producing a console that allows easy ports of Windows games, they are not going to 'win' the console war. They might create a large market for their product, perhaps partly by displacing a number of companies that currently sell gaming hardware for PCs, but their product is not in the same areana as traditional consoles. People who play console games today generally have no interest in playing PC games. The genres are so different. People don't buy Sony, Nintendo and Sega consoles because they can't afford a PC, they buy them because they have great console-style games - a large proportion will already have a PC. The last PC game I felt any urge to play was Civilisation 2. I could care less if Half Life ever gets released for my Dreamcast, I am not going to buy it while I can continue playing Crazy Taxi, Sonic Adventure and Jet Set/Grind Radio. And as for this whole business of 'winning' the console war, that is just monopoly talk. There aren't winners and losers, generally, in any market. There are just the more successful and the less successful. Nintendo haven't sold anywhere near as many N64s as Sony have sold PlayStations, but they still turn a very healthy profit. I doubt they consider themselves 'losers'.
Limiting the market, as is done with consoles, gives expensive high-quality games the opportunity to become known and grow in the market. Trust me, AAA developers don't mind licensing fees that separate the wheat from the chaff at all.
And though it's true I've been talking about things that help developers, one thing it seems that MS understands is that really good blockbuster games are what sell consoles, not a "name" in the industry, and not powerful but tweaky hardware. Which is at least one thing they're getting right.
Does trust work?
Maybe they are other issues that need to be addressed if you've to censor stuff for you're kid.
I don't have kids, but I do remember being a kid. I remember being trusted, I remember fucking up and breaking it, I remember rebuilding that trust, and learning what I really meant. Do people still do that or is it obsolete because of Net Nany?
Cigarettes don't come with child proof locks, why should video games?
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M0571y H@rml355.
"Does your VCR check video tapes to see if the person pressing play is old enough, or even if anyone is present to enter a code to watch particular levels of films?"
No, because the VHS standard doesn't include a flag for the rating of the material contained. My digital TV and DVD player both do, however, and I can choose to turn such features on if I want them.
All this appears to boil down to is that the DVD Video standard has a code for the rating of the picture, so as the box needs to support this for video playback it only seems reasonable to be able to use it for the software being played on the machine as well.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Adults can stop their kids by teaching them, not by censoring them.
Tell a 10 year old kid not to play Quake because there is blood and guts and naked girls (ok, not in my Q3, but you get point..) and he'd probably still try to sneak in a game of Quake. I wouldn't necessarily blame curiosity on bad parenting.
What is a VChip if not censorship?
It depends on where you draw the line for censorship. I consider censorship to be the restriction of speech or expression of someone by and outside source of illegitimate authority. Parents are one of the only forms of authority who should be allowed to "censor" stuff from their kids. That's what this does.. though "censor" is a rather strong word for it. Is covering their kids' eyes during the scary parts of a movie "censorship?"
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After all, *you're the parent* and so it's YOUR responsibility to keep your kids from having a meal of Codeine with a Drano chaser. You can't expect some furniture company's locking cabinet to do your parenting for you.
You remember doing all this when you were 4? Bright kid.
I can see how this could work. If Microsoft does this right, they can allow the programing community a bit bor freedom... Here's how I hope it comes out:
The V-Chip is controled though a physical key or code key. Yes, they are breakable (in more sence than one) but most "kids" won't be able to break them. If the kid is able to break the lock, he's old enough to know right from wrong, so I guess he should be able to react alot better to the more mature content.
Alright, Game developers will want the kids to play their games as much as the adults, (More moola, the allmighty buck!) So, much like "Mortal Kombat" for the SNES, there will be sweat instead of blood. Plus, you can turn on the "Gibbed" version of your game with the proper key!
This will encurage a couple of things:
A> Game companies will have to spend time making more games appealing to more audiances, and not just us "one shot, one kill" young adults that like blood, guts, a little additude, and a lot of inside mature humor. Instead they will have to produce some of the real gems that we learned to love as youngsters: Mario, Metroid, PacMan, DigDug, SpaceInvaders, Asteriods... Those old games that make us all smile...
and B> Developers can finaly make "Mature" games without having to worry about making the press scream "This is what you're 4 year old is playing!" as they seem to like screaming nowadays.
So, How could this be bad? Bad implementation, bad desgin, bad ideas on what's "mature" or not... Not ALL of this is in the X-Box's hand, but they sure could mess this one up.
Best of luck to the X box. I won't be buying one (I'm cheap, wouldn't pay $500 for my most rescent computer!) and I bet they're going to go all the way, just like Sony did the last time around.
On a side note, I'm going to buy a Game Boy Advanced the INSTANT it comes out. No compatition, really (I've heard about something else, but do you REALLY think they'll beat Nentendo??)
Pathway
It's not like you're running your driver's license through a scanner to get access to M-rated games...
I think this is a great idea. If games have ratings, and parents can control that, then I don't have to worry about my games being censored.
If i'm missing something, let me know.
KYLE> Hey, Cartman, did they put that V-chip in your head or your ass?
STAN> What's the difference?
[Stan and Kyle laugh.]
CARTMAN> Very funny dickhead-
[BZZAAT! The v-chip shocks Cartman.]
I see your point, and I'd like to clear mine a bit.
I myself am only 18 years old and in no hurry to marry or to have sex. I myself respect virginity highly, but I won't demand it from my future companions. "Marrage before sex" is a beautiful notion, but I don't see it as very common in today's world. As AC replied, I believe that the mutual life before marrage should be as near real life as possible to make a lasting marrage. So it would be perhaps the other way around: when a relationship is so deep that the partners have sex, it might be time to consider marrage. The next step from "marrage before sex" would be to try to have sex only with your future wife/husband.
Furthermore, in today's world teenagers (not all, but some) will have sex no matter what people say. In these circumstances I'd say it's a lot better to use a condom (which is nearly 100% effective, if used properly) than not to. And in this situation it's neccessary that the proper education of using contraceptives has been given early enough.
I myself wouldn't feel frightened to use a condom because of the risk involved (it's really miniscule). But I would be frightened to marry someone of whom I have no idea how they behave in bed.
(Note: I'm a Lutheran, although I don't consider myself very religious. And please don't start raging about being a nominal Christian, I have thought about it a lot and have my personal reasons.)
I doubt, therefore I may be.
I was tired, it happens, infact I am still tired.
But I will bite anyway, Lame ass troll, I was clearly stating that a theater enforcing the R rating was descriminating against the young. How does the theater know the parents feel this way or that way about what their children watch? They dont. Talk about an unfounded and bassless comment. You dont know what the parents want, or even if they have parents.
Fight censors!
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
I have plenty of games that have a parental control feature to them, but my parents (back in the day), like many parents, don't know how to set that stuff up so it will go one, as another useless feature meant to sell products. The kids will have the control of what they see in games as they always have.
--If you don't understand the problem, then it must have been solved.
"I was clearly stating that a theater enforcing the R rating was descriminating against the young."
Hate to break it to you but children have very few rights in this society. Don't blame the theater owners because they're afraid that the MPAA rating system is going to become law (as has been threatened) if they don't enforce it voluntarily.
"How does the theater know the parents feel this way or that way about what their children watch?"
Because the parent should have either gotten them into the theater or not. Pretty straight forward, right?
"(Yes, I do mean drag them into the street and hurt them.)"
Hmmm... This seems to show the extent of your intellect. Physically harm those that disagree with you.
BTW, is discriminating, not descriminating. Try turning off the TV and reading a book. You might learn something.
Ranessin
What I remember is being told not to do somethings with no reason at all as to why I shouldn't, so I ended up doing them just to figure out what was wrong with it!
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Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
However, there's the other extreme, where parents that buy these items expect them to be the only means to control their children's viewing habits and take no other active participation in this; they are then the first to complain when their children have inappropriate items. V-Chips and filterware are not placebos for taking an active role in parenting, unlike how many wish they could be.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
I think its great that parents can finally control, er no I mean censor, the content their children are exposed to. In this day and age, thanks to Microsoft, the only monopoly that truely cares as much or more about your children than you do, you now have a choice to disable graphic detail or content from games. We all know our children need to play games and need to watch TV. So now you can let them veg in peace. I just have a few recommendations to parents.
First, create a room to put your child in. They need to be sealed from the graphic content of reality as much as possible because that could potentially make them a free thinker, capable of independant thought, immune to the effects of pop culture. That would be bad! This room should have all the candy, snacks and food a child needs devlivered to them via an automatic despenser on a timely basis to avoid starvation.
Then the child will need something to do with their time, else they may decide to interrupt their parents, god forbid, so you should give them an X-Box, TV with digital cable, stereo, a DVD player and a computer/net connection with your favorite version of child protection/censorship software. A warning about the computer, censorship software can be bypassed, so it would be best to have a third party install a firewall like device on your network using their own proprietary black list that is dynamicly updated over the internet. That way any connection to any systems on the net containing information that is controversial in nature, such as breast cancer, can be blocked from ever enterring your child's room.
Finally you will need a bed and toilet so the child can live a full and happy life in their cage.
I suspect the initial startup cost of this is around $10,000. But if you act now we'll send you all this plus a free child for only $133 a month. That's like the cost of a pizza a week. Now anyone can afford to have a kid. Don't wait, call now! Supplies are limitted.
I never said that they wouldn't ever even think about playing those games.
I just said that they would be less likely to want to, and if they knew that you were open about the issue, they would be more likely to want to talk to you about it rather than do it behind your back without your knowledge.
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Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
You contradict yourself in the first paragraph.
Yes, if a person really wants to see/do something, they're going to find a way to do it. You can control things in your own house, but what about a neighbor or friend's house?
If you really did *explain* why a game is 'unacceptable' and they really understand it, then they are really unlikely to want to play it.
But don't forget that a child isn't an extention of their parents! You can't force your thought patterns and morals on another individual and expect them to follow exactly what you say. They are intelligent and searching for knowledge, good or bad. The only way to learn about something is to experience it, and just having a directive without reason behind it is just ignorance.
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Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Mario - Jump on animals to squish
Metroid - ???
PacMan - Eat the monsters
DigDug - Squash the monsters
SpaceInvaders - Shoot the aliens
Asteriods - Shoot the rocks(OK I guess) and the aliens
Non violent - I think not. The realism of modern games has improved and the gore content has gone up but I believe this is more a result of better technology than anything else. The violence has always been there.
wot no sig
If they want to have competitive hardware, they'll have to either charge twice as much as their competitors (and enjoy all the great mass-market success of 3DO and NeoGeo), or lose money on it. That's the way the console market works. Selling cutting edge hardware to teenagers is unprofitable.
The profit of the console market is in the software. To have any hope of breaking even, let alone making a profit, they need whopping licensing fees from the game developers.
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I'm going to tell you how to parent, because I think I do a pretty good job. And also because I deplore the situation in which parents are so confused and bewildred that they feel they need Net Nannies and censorship on TV and yes, v-chips.
I wonder what kind of parents these congressmen are...
Ok, when a kid is 0-5 there is nothing in their environment but what you have created and placed there. You don't listen to NIN in their presence, you don't watch TV with them. You don't leave it on while you get the dishes done and they sit there, numb and brainwashed. You never turn it on, ideally, and its not part of their day.
You expose them to classical music. You roll on the floor with them, you fingerpaint, you color with them. You devote more time than you ever thought you could spare to them because between 0-5 they have and should have no one else in their world but Mommy, Daddy, and close family.
Which is to say that you don't Ever send them to Day Care. You make necessary sacrifices, which in this day and age means you must often choose between having a family and having a career if you are the Wife, or having a house if you are a Husband. But once you chose kids, the mother (or father) should stay at home all day and have the child(ren) by her side at all times.
You read to them constantly, sitting on the couch, close and warm, taking time for the child to ask questions. Often the child will prefer only one book to be read over and over again. That's okay, and never to be questioned. You can marvel at how the little brain is imprinting itself through repetition of the same (frikkin') story over and over again. You read to them every night.
After 5 years old, you guide them in their development, giving them signals that it is time to start growing up a little. This means - beyond potty training - exposing them to new experiences.
Ideally, at this point, they don't know what a TV even is. And they certainly have never seen gore, violence, or rage, except as played out within the safe circle of the family. Roughhousing is a wonderful exercise!
But also, their stories become richer in texture as elements of violence enter into the nightly readings. I prefer Finn McCollough (pronounced "Finn McCool"), of Irish Myths and Legends. It is amazing how gory and grim (pun intended) and frightening some of these stories are, but they serve a good purpose: mankind is not without its Dark Side, and it is better to acknowledge it and 'take it out for a walk' than to bury it. Start with them young, let them know that it is okay to entertain some negative thoughts. Frighten them, sure, but with a strong degree of comfort and security.
Then they come to rely on your judgement heavily so that only your influence matters in their lives. Others, including the TV and video game mfrs and rock stars, are powerless to influence the child, and their access is limited and always under controlled circumstances.
Then, as they grow beyond the age where you can control their access, you try to instill them with all the wisdom you can and teach them to discern between right and wrong, good and bad.
When they hit about twelve years old, they will begin to experiment with violent games and images. Here is where all those scary stories pay off (I don't recommend you read exclusively scary stories, but they will tell you which they like and which are boring, or too scary). You have taught them that their 'dark side' (the side that is scared, in reality) is okay, and they recognize the feelings. They also turn to you to validate them. At this point they know what is and what is not good for them. This is not to say that they won't disobey your wishes! There is a tacit acceptance that they will experiment, but you have done all you can at this point.
SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
War on youth? I don't know if I agree with that, but when I was under 16 I had no qualms having an older buddy or my parents run in and get the tickets for me and my underage friends. Of course, there were times when we'd sneak in, but that's not the point.
.. we all know what makes it an R rated movie or a PG-13 movie. It doesn't really matter how ridiculous you think it is, if everything is rated relative to one another, parents can decide that an R movie is in fact something they don't want their 13 year old kid to see. 5 years ago an R rated movie was different than an R rated movie today, but the parent can still make the judgement call effectively.
The issue here isn't that a 16 year old shouldn't be able to go see an R movie. I personally agree that the age for movies is a bit ridiculous. The point is that giving parents control over what video games their kids can play in their house is a good thing, not a "war on youth."
I'm a kid too for christ's sake, I'm only 19 (watch my reputability drop...)
Having a parent turn off violent content from games their 13 year old wants to play is not discrimination even though the 13 year old "is a person too." Like it or not, you ain't got no rights at 13 years of age (in the U.S., at least.) It's for your own good, most of the time, anyway. 15-16 is a grey area, its different for each person how they mature, but the line does have to be drawn somewhere. Luckily in most cases the line can be shifted around by parents (ie, the movie case.)
And, BTW, it matters not what the opinions of the "raters" are of the MPAA.. (the use of that acronym spells troll to me, but I'll continue)
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Not really. With medicine, if you lack attention for a few minutes, you risk finding your kid plain dead.
Well, the analogy was not for the consequences of the two things, but merely the notion of helping parents keep kids out of doing things they shouldn't be doing.
Not quite the same as finding him playing a violent video game and having an opportunity to teach him why you don't want him to do this, and discuss alternative video games
If you turn a video game off from letting a kid play, and he asks you why.. you can have your little talk then without him seeing the stuff and being extremely curious.
You're probably right about it not being real useful in parenting, but it really can't hurt (except if you're like that guy who doesn't want to pay for it.. Christ
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So you propose using chips in a computer instead of educating your child and wielding your authority as a parent? Maybe you shouldn't have children in the first place... All it takes is a little bit of patience and the will to spend time with your children. Patience, love and a little luck and you won't have to police them ever.
Maybe not a vital feature, but a good one (IMHO). IANAP either, but I can definately agree that while yes, you should talk to your children and tell them what is right, wrong, acceptable and not, you may not want to leave the (perverbial) playboy channel unlocked. This doesn't have to deal with violent video games either, what about pornographic (or explicit, like Duke3d (maybe a stretch, but you get what I'm talking about)) games? Yes, there is a time and place to talk to your children about sex, girls and boys and why they are different, but that doesnt' mean I want my 5 year old son/daughter accidently turning on my xbox and starting up "Hot Redhead Nurse Strip Poker" which I left in the night before.
Don't forget, this has been done in a variety of ways before, to some degree anyway. The PS2 we have at work had a code to lock out DVDs if we wanted to, and games from as far back as
Whether this feature is used or not is going to be the thing, but not I hope, whether it was a good idea.
It's just too bad that we have to depend on the manufacturer of an entertainment device to protect our children. When will people realize that all the hardware in the world isn't going to change the fact that it's up to the parent (or parent) to mold and shape their children. It's not the job of the maker of a video game console, or television, or DVD player.
Of course, and I highly suspect it, I may be talking out of my ass. -oqti
Flamebait, eh. I'll address it anyway. Let me tell you something about me. I know right from wrong. In fact, I'm an expert in religous morality, both past and present forms. When I was a child, morality consisted little more than "will I get spanked for this?" and "can I get away for this?". That's the reality of a 5 year old. They don't fully understand the implications of death, much less the implications of love and sex. I sure didn't. Which is why I want to expose my children to such things in a controlled enviroment, rather than let some video game writer do it for me. As they get older, and I am certain they understand right from wrong, and that games are not real, I will let them play games. But, it will be my choice. I'm not a hippocrite, I just don't want others raising my kids.
Burn Hollywood Burn
"is discriminating, not descriminating. "
Should read:
"it's discriminating, not descriminating. "
Ranessin
...before you see Pokemon on the Xbox.
Heheh, I'm a dork for knowing this. Ah well, at least my years of gaming experience comes in handy to help an AC. ;)
Up, Dp, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, B, A, Start.
But, how is a parent going to know when their child is 'mature' enough to play a certain game.
Is there a magic age when a person realizes that the violence on the screen isn't real?
Some might realize this at an early age, and some might never realize this.
The parent still has to play an active role in the process, and I agree with the rest of your post.
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Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
You mentioned that should sex not be satisfying that it would be hard to talk about. That's the major difference, sex is a very important part of a marrage, if you can't talk about something that's that important (i.e. explaining to each other what you like or don't like) then I think the relationship is going down anyway. I feel that I love her enough to be able to take the time and care about what she wants. Those are things that make the relationship work.
You are right that there is not a 100% perfect way to enter a relationship, but I choose to do it in a manner consistant with my belief structure. Also and I don't have a copy of this but I have read statistics that show engaged couples who have sex before they get married have a higher occurance of sexual dysfunction (especially on the part of the women) when they get married, as opposed to those who waited.
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
The Anti-Blog
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
The Anti-Blog
I did the same, but i (and others) also did stuff b/c we thought our parents wrong, even though they explained the reason.
Someone says "Microsoft" and you guys jump all over it like crazed people! So, my DVD player and cable box are "censoring" content by having a parental lock feature? Because that's all this is... If the linux-based Indrema console had the exact same feature, you'd all be lauding it for responsibly giving parents the ability to control what their children are exposed to and giving developers an "out" that lets them create whatever content they desire. ("If you don't want our violent/sexy game played in your home, you can just lock it out!")
For a case like that, couldn't you just set your more mature games someplace more than a few feet off the ground, and you wouldn't have to worry about small children finding them and managing to become adept at slaughtering virtual enemies?
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Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
Gotta love the knee jerk reaction to this comment that all the /. geeks throw out about the poster being an irresponsible parent. I'm just adding my comment into the mix because it seems to me that only one or two other people in the thread made the point that the VChip is a tool for parenting not a replacement. You cannot watch your kids 24/7, and even if you do tell them "no" it's always good to be able to keep them from the temptation of breaking the rules.
Granted, I'm not a parent, not even close, but I'm sick of seeing the idiocy of this issue.. the notion of "Microsoft being the nanny" because they're adding a feature to their video game system to allow parents to choose what can or cannot be played is absolutely ridiculous.
There's no difference between this and childproof lids on medicine and the fact that you need to be carded at movies or be with a parent. You can't very well have a person carding a kid everytime they want to use a R rated video game, can you? If the parent wants to let the kid play the R rated game, then they just turn the thing off.
It's not censorship. People on this site use the term way too loosely.
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If you don't want that, there is no need for a censorchip. Simply encrypt one filt essential to the game (like the app itself), for example with pgp, and write two little scripts:
How hard is that? I can't believe you would call yourself a geek and condone that form of censorship.
I also believe in something called "setting an example", which is why I don't have any games on my computer which I wouldn't want my children to play (I have 3). But when that's not practical, password-protection it is.
You have lots of good points, but I'd like to add a few comments...
... and you will never have to confiscate guns or drugs or condoms from them.
As the other reply said, I believe that a moderate amount of daycare is good for children. They learn to play with each other, to cooperate and settle arguments. Parents should have a close relationship with their children, but at the age of 3-6 I'd say it's also important to have other social contacts (even without the parent around) and daycare is a good way to offer them.
What the hell is wrong with condoms? In my opinion, safe sex is one of the most important things you should teach teenagers. Here in Finland, for instance, in the course of general education at the age of about 15-16 every boy and girl gets two condoms (one through mail along with a leaflet explaining about veneral diseases and one from the school pediatrician). It's not supposed to encourage students to use them and have sex (and I don't believe it does), instead, to show that safe sex is not a taboo and that condoms are an easy and safe way to protect from diseases if and when the time comes.
Of course, sexuality should also be discussed at home, not just at schools. At least my parents have done their part in educating and guiding me, I hope others have too.
How much education on sexuality (and I don't mean only sex) is given in schools/at home in the US? I've lived there only third grade, but from TV etc. (including posts like this) I get the feeling that in some parts safe sex is still a subject not to be discussed. Is this really so?
I doubt, therefore I may be.
Take your kids to day care. Not often, but not never. From my observations, kids are like little sponges. The kids I know that have been exposed to day care at young ages (in limited doses) are less shy (more confident) and appear better adjusted to meeting new people (whether it be toddlers or grownups) than those that socialize nearly exclusively with familiar faces. Could be wrong about this, but it's my observation that, in the very least, day care in moderation is certainly not harmful.
I'm not sure if the "classical music == smarter kids" notion is scientific or urban myth. Just to be sure, I'll let the kid listen to some of Radiohead's "OK Computer". I'll let you know if my kid becomes a drug addict.
Have to agree about the TV. Piece of shit it is. But I don't think that non-exposure is going to teach anything. Maybe let them watch a couple of hours a week. I prefer letting kids watch "older" movies. I defined old by the fact that I can't find any merchandise in the stores. They love the movies still, but you just don't have to [read: can't] buy the toys.
I agree that when they are old enough to rationalise (you decide), they need to be exposed to advertising so you can tell them what it's about and how ridiculous it is. Actually, now is the time to educate educate educate.
I could ramble on about my thoughts on parenting, but I just wanted to point out that we all have our ideas about how to be a good parent. I'd suggest that a lot of what we would consider good parenting would have to do with the way we raised. I had an argument with a neighbour who flogged his 2 month old puppy. His justification : "I had three dogs when I was a kid" (implying that this "experience" justifies his violence) !!!!????? Do you think his father taught him how to "teach" a dog? It's right to strive to be a good father. Just be open to suggestions and look for advice (books, friends, family, etc.).
And finally, teach your kids soccer :)
I see nothing wrong with curiosity. I do see something wrong with stifling it. I wouldn't be happy with the disobedience, but I'd rather have a chance to explain things, instead of causing resentment and not knowing it.
Covering your own eyes (or looking away) during a scary part of a movie is self-censorship. So is viewing slashdot moderation--self-censorship by a community. This isn't always a bad thing, but it should be noticed, and called what it is.
Do you remember being a kid? Did you always consider your parents to be the absolute authority on everything? I think that technological censorship tools either cause resentment in children, or teach them how to hack.
I know I spent a considerable amount of time getting around useless security measures in High School. If some of those hadn't existed in the first place, I never would have learned how to defeat them. (and believe me, they were pointless)
But in either case, I'm sure every good parent out there would rather keep their children's respect and trust by explaining things to them and trying to teach them morals than lose it by simply denying them what they want and not listening to them. That is my objection, and I think these tools often cause that; it is a form of neglect, and encourages poor communication.
Will the real Bruce Perens Please Stand Up
Yes.
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* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
They must have paid a shitload to keep him quiet... you know he has to have some dirt on Dumbya from his coked up college days. Maybe the CIA threatened to shoot him again.
Republicans are Nazis. LetsRiot!
I honestly have nothing to add to that, except that seems entirely possible, and utterly heartless.
TV's and VCR's already have this feature. DVD Players have different control measures. There are all kinds of little chips already built into your electronics to stop you from using what you own. Why should this be any different?
Because it's not stopping me from using what I own, it lets me stop my (hypothetical) kids from using what I own.
Feel free to protest this, but remember to also protest Macrovision, Region coding, Censorship, and parents who don't want to take responsibility for their children.
Macrovision and region coding aren't intended to be gotten around by the end-user. This feature is. It's not censorship, any more than my locking the game disc in a cupboard so the kid couldn't get at it would be censorship.
"The Greens lynched a hacker in Chicago. Last month, but I think the body's still hanging from the old Water Tower."
A better analogy would be leaving the cleaning products and medications all out in the open and within the child's reach and then relying on the "childproof" packaging (technology)to keep your child from consuming them. Would you, as a responsible parent, do that? Or would it be better to keep them inaccessible and teach your children not to drink Drano?
One Bourbon
One Scotch
and One Beer
Well first of all, the X-box uses a standard DVD drive, which means it should be able to read your burned CDs, and DVDs (when DVD burners become cheaper and more widely available.)
As for the software, everything I've ready seems to indicate that there won't be any specific mechanisms to prevent users from playing their own discs in the machine.
The big thing that Microsoft has going for them is that the box runs DX8 and a windows kernel. This means that porting PC games is a no-brainer, and also means that game companies can simultaneously develop for the X-box and Windows with little impact to productivity. That is the real way Microsoft plans on winning; the same way they won the OS and browser wars.
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-- russ
"You want people to think logically? ACK! Turn in your UID, you traitor!"
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
Does any of Nintendo 64, Playstation 1 or 2 or Sega Dreamcast have any form of control device? Or do they depend on the tried and trusted solution applied in the entire home entertainment system which is that you cannot buy/rent the item unless you are old enough, and if a copy is left (such as the original posters half-life) where an unsuitable person can use it, it is the fault of the person who leaves it there! Does your VCR check video tapes to see if the person pressing play is old enough, or even if anyone is present to enter a code to watch particular levels of films?
The problem is MS are planing to introduce an extra control method for a device that nobody else has deemed necessary in the last 20 years. Why? My guess is that it is an attempt at political control (e.g. the system will cover browsing and allow you see dubya's site but not al's) and perhaps even as a form of market research (they gather "login" results to assure the parents it isn't being hacked). I don't like MS so I can only ascribe truly evil reasons. I don't like censorship and corporate control systems either, what if your 15 year old wants to play third-life and you know as their parent it is ok for them but the Y-Box only allows authorised games to be used (prevent piracy) and then only by users with authorised age proofing Id (I'd say a dermal chip but...). Is this ok? I hope not. Every parent has an incredible responsibility to ensuire that their child is brought up correctly, and it is not their job to slavishly follow corporate precedent to do so, it is their job to understand their own child(ren) and to create an appropriate environment for them.
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
While this might be great with older kids, what do you do if you have a 5 year old? You want her to be able to play a TeleTubbies game or whatever. But you don't want her checking out daddy's fighting games.
It is definitely important to teach yours kids why you don't want them playing certain games. But it makes sense to me that you could want to keep your children from watching inappropriate content on the TV, XBox, DVD player, PC, or whatever. When they get older and become more mature/responsible, less controls will be necessary.
Forager
student of animation and the fine arts
Bill G: The X Box has a special new V chip, it filters out the horrible things so children can't see them. This is a game that your child could play without you knowing if you don't have a V chip
a penguin happily runs across the screen and hands a CD labled open-source to another penguin
Bill G: Now we have the same game filtered with the X-box V chip to insure that your children see nothing but clean good AMERICAN themes
The penguin now has horns and looks mean. As he hands the CD crudly labled open source to a person who looks terrified we hear the person scream and a chain gun with the M$ logo kills the poor water-bird.
Bill G: *Sniff* makes me think of apple pie, baseball and a free America!
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master"-Unknowen
moderators please chmod to -1.
I really hope this was a coincidence, and they didn't 'wait' for something like this to happen. This had to be a coincidence, it's not to cash-in on the 'bad' music and video games about to be blamed for corrupting youth... is it?
I was raised on gore and pornography and I am not lining up co-workers and employers and blasting them like those crazy trench coat mafia pieces of shit from Columbine, I don't get what censorship has to do with anything. If you're telling your kids black people cause crime from age 5, a V-Chip isn't going to make a god damned difference whether or not they go around calling every black man a criminal.
But then again, for those Christian parents who don't want their kids seeing the word ass and don't let their children watch the Simpsons.. I guess the V-Chip is a good thing because it will "protect" them from the real world until finally they've had enough and they buy M-4 Assault Rifles and decide to start killing all those people who are better than them.
-Black Nigger Jew
remember, nobody likes chunkyfish.
I just don't want others raising my kids.
And unless you edit the ESRB lists yourself (Do you think you'll have this kind of access to the ratings system on the xbox?), you are letting others decide what is appropriate/inappropriate for your children.
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Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
> They could easily require that the CD key be recorded in a databse over the net and find out who is using illegal copies.
Um, I think that this is what XP copy protection is all about.
One could argue that MS has reached large enough market so that now it's MS consider it acceptable to make copying hard.
MS has *always* has been very harsh on mass copiers, but rarely has done anything to the casual copiers.
It may be the reason why they claim that casual copiers cost them so much money.
Of course, one could also argue that XP copy protection scheme will be easy enough to crack. Most products are, if you know where to look. (Google comes to mind, frex).
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Two witches watched two watches.
Which witch watched which watch?
Better Microsoft play nanny and keep id Software from doing so.
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It's inescapable. Graphic, violent acts are committed every day by real people, probably in a city very near you. Sex is enjoyed (and rightfully so!) by BILLIONS of people on this planet. Don't hide your kids from these things, EDUCATE THEM.
It seems to me that when your child reaches such an age where this sort of thing becomes a concern, rather than sheild your children from these real-world topics, teach them about them. Teach them that shooting people is not cool, but playing war games can be just plain fun. Teach them the consequences of having sex... ALL of the consequences. Teach them that people who shoot people go to jail (o.k. sometimes they do). These things are a reality of the world we live in. Don't let them get just a part of the reality... EDUCATE THEM!
I grew up playing violent games, and I have never committed a violent act. Never. The concept that television and video games teach your children to be violent is pure poppycock. The reality of it is that HUMANS ARE VIOLENT! If you don't want your children to be violent, you need to teach them not to be. Only by educating them, training them, instilling them with moral values will you prevent your children from being wretches (or perhaps by blind luck). If you are afraid to do this, or incapable, or if it is too inconvenient for you, DON'T HAVE KIDS. Do the world, and them, a favor, and forgo parenthood.
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I'm brash
Hover, having said all that, I still can't say that my kids are perfect, nor are they perfectly immune to the influences that pound on their senses every day. You can't shield your kids from everything, but there are some things you do want to keep away from them. Teenagers are bound to experiment, and sooner or later, they are going to find themselves in trouble. Sometimes they are the ones asking for the hard limits. You don't tell someone with a broken leg, "Go out and walk on it, you wimp!" No, you give them a cast and critches until they have regained the strength to walk on their own.
You're right -- too many parents blame their failures on the "bad influence" of society. However, I've seen to many kids with problems to simply ignore the influence if society, or to think that a nice hug and a bed time story are going to make all those bad things just go away...
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Your Servant, B. Baggins
This is a great idea. I'm 28 years old, about to get married and have children. I LOVE playing Half Life (only reason I actually own Windows), but when I have kids, I dont want my 5 year old starting up some video game whose objective is to blow people apart. Just like I don't want them to view R movies on HBO (which my Digital Cable box can prevent). It's my choice. End of story. It's not censor. It's not to "appease the government". If anything, it's to appease parents. It's a good thing.
Burn Hollywood Burn
Hi, first of all let me mention that i'm not the average person. Unlike most people i used to be very relaxed (meaning: Not hyperactive). my dad introduced me to computers at a very young age ('bout 4/5). Now (i'm 13) I know more then my computer teacher. I've been webmastering and trying out programming.Also I have been (with permission of the system Administrator) Finding ways into our new linux file system. All these skills have saved me. My handwriting has always been terrible. I've had extralessons my entire live. I type faster then most people in my class can write. So nowerdays i am taking a comp with me to school. When i was young it was easier to find me in front of the computer then in front of the TV!!! Niksie3
Sig you!
Now I can prevent my kids from playing the next Pokemon game without having to take it away from them!
/tma
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Tyranny of the majority.
So what ? Obviously, MS feels that in this society violence and sex are more likely to offend people than religion.
They are right.
TV's and VCR's already have this feature. DVD Players have different control measures. There are all kinds of little chips already built into your electronics to stop you from using what you own. Why should this be any different?
Feel free to protest this, but remember to also protest Macrovision, Region coding, Censorship, and parents who don't want to take responsibility for their children. I think these are all good things to protest, but I doubt you'll get very far.
Apparently people would rather have DVDs and games than basic human rights. Bread and Circuses wins over The Constitution any day...
Will the real Bruce Perens Please Stand Up
i was really looking forward to another version of leisure suit larry too..
oh well
-Caino
Don't touch my .sig there!
...as a general rule have a much healthier view on sex and the human body.
In north america we show movies like hannibal loaded up with gore but then we censor out a womans breasts (be afraid of your body!).
How much sense does that make... not much.
- Toby
The increasing number of violent video games was bound to prompt some sort of response from hardware vendors. After all we have an increasing problem of youth violence in our society these days. Clearly something needs to be done to curb this disturbing trend. The fact that Microsoft is actively seeking remedy is definitely plausable as far as I'm concerned. Remember this will only affect those under the age of 18 who should not be allowed to play games unsupervised.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
What if parents don't want their kids exposed to religious programming? Granted, this is a non-issue as far as video games are concerned, but it's one of my pet peeves about V-chip technology. Sex and violence are not the only things that people may find objectionable. It seems rather arbitrary, if not discriminatory, that the only content that *can* be blocked happens to be the type of content frowned upon by right-wing Christians. It might appear that this is a coincidence, but consider that even the most restrictive anti-violence settings on the chip will often fail to block images of a certain man being crucified.
look, the fact of the matter is that all kids are little fuckups. for me, i know what games they own, but not what game they just borrowed from one of their little asshole friends. the real trouble is that anytime you try to "parent" the law calls it "child abuse".
and they wonder why we need technology to raise our children.
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"Don't trolls get tired?"
Getting towards my point... these kids will go on the internet looking for some sort of hack or crack for their Xbox and we all know what happens when you go looking for hacks/cracks/etc. ... You run into a large amount of porn banner ads. And lets not forget, when you browse slashdot for insightful information, you run into goatse.cx links all the time(sorry trolls... not gonna link it).
I guess the point REALLY is... these kids will see nudity, violence, and drugs no matter what. The v-chip-like-device just makes it a little harder to see it on the Xbox. This is also why devices such as these aren't the cure-all that politicians seem to think they are.
What really needs to happen is that parents need to raise their children to a point where they know that playing a violent game, or watching a violent movie doesn't make a shooting spree a good thing to do. And let's not forget sex.... heck you can watch commercials and get aroused nowadays (ally landry in doritos commercials anyone?), so what makes these people think that putting a chip in a video game system or a tv will prevent kids from seeing it?
Steve
the thing is, will parents be able to set *how* vilent a video games they let their kids play or will it just be all or none... also who will do the rating... and will this console really have enough effect on the market to influence whether or not games are changed to censored version before they come over here...
as to the people that want to talk about "youth violence" its down from previous years and its still going down... the only difference is it happens to be being commited in a more mediagenic way...
"we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" --Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
I don't have a problem with such a chip, as long as its use is voluntary. If parents want to restrict what games their kids can play, then I don't have a problem with giving them the tools to do that. Not that I like the idea a whole lot, either. Still, I have to wonder why such a tool is needed if parents did their jobs. If you don't want your children playing certain games, listening to certain music, or watching certain movies, don't let them buy them or bring them into the house. It's that simple. And in case anyone says that parents can't possibly watch their kids 24/7, that may be true. My parents didn't watch me 24/7, but I knew the rules of the house, and I knew what would happen if I broke them. I personally think that being engaged in your kids' lives and communicating expectations of good behavior is a hell of a lot more effective than all the filtering programs and v-chips in the world. My parents didn't need a v-chip in their TV. They simply told me what I was and wasn't allowed to watch, and that was enough. Some might say that kids will try to break whatever rules get set out by parents, and that's also true, but kids have been doing that since the beginning of time. Besides, getting away with something your parents didn't allow once in a while added a little excitement to a kid's life, and it doesn't do that much harm. Who here isn't guilty of getting a brief look at a copy of Playboy when they were a teenager? And who didn't get a feeling of excitement from the notion that they were getting away with something (not to mention excitement for other reasons)? IMHO, kids don't get to be criminals because of what they may see from time to time; they become criminals because their parents aren't there to guide them to maturity. I don't care how good at blocking objectionable content technology gets, it isn't a replacement for good parenting, and it never will be. The thing that baffles me, however, is that we've known this fact for a long time, but very few people seem to take heed. Perhaps they think that they're being good parents by working the long hours to be able to afford a nice house in the suburbs and to send their kids to the best schools money can buy, never mind that their kids spend more time in front of the TV than with them.
That light you see at the end of the tunnel might be from an oncoming train.
Now, using microsoft's revolutionary technology, consumers will be able to censor media containing dangerous or obscene words like "open source" or "freeware". You won't have to worry about your children being drawn into a self-destructive downward spiral of pro bono programming when microsoft's X-Box censor technology is on the watch.
Some people see the vchip idea as a guarantee that more graphic and nasty games will come out. This is because, they think, that the producers can rely on the vchip to keep impressionable youths away.
That's why all of those sophisticated nc17 movies are coming out, right? What people forget is that when you have an "nc17"-like level, merchants can say "I won't advertise games higher than x" or "I won't sell games higher than y." So it doesn't result in _more_ adult-themed entertainment, it results in adult entertainment that teases and uses euphemisms. It's the "everything but" solution that r-rated movies provide.
I am sick of people complaining that video games are the cause of all the violence. Ok. This is my opinion, so remember that before hitting with the flames.
I rarely ever post, but this is a topic that I cannot allow ingorance to run rampant on. First of all, you are missing all the scientific studies that prove that there is no direct connection between violent and games. Now, I know someone is going to reply with that popular study that states that there is, but that is not the full study and that study has been proven to have been biased. I can't cite the reference off hand, and my point is not to convince you about that. My point is: don't believe everything that you read. The study in question was one of many that the Senate looked into, and the one that produced the results that they wanted to hear was the one "selected" to be "true". That does not mean that it was.
The other studies showed that yes, boys who were exposed to the violent content (this was TV, no video games) did, in fact, choose to act violently to resolve their problems. However, when those same boys were then shown to use compromise as a resolution and were discipined when using force (violence) to resolve a conflict, they actually responded with a much more non-violent approach. This means basic, good parenting actually meant more to the children and had greater influence on their behavior than the TV shows did. Parents who turn their head or glorify violence produce violent children, not video games and TV.
So, what about the popular study? Well, as soon as the behavioral pychologists that did the study followed up on the "violent" boys to see how many ended up commiting violent crimes and exhibited otherwise violent behavior, they found that only one of the thirty actually grew up to be violent. Funny how the Senate doesn't announce that when "dealing" with the recent school violence.
Look, I'm a father too. I'm also young. I grew up loving violent TV shows and Wolfenstein. Today, I play Rogue Spear on a daily basis. I got my ass kicked nearly everyday in school and sometimes at home for being a geek, art-nerd, and an intelligent human being. And never once did I fight back. I never backed down. I faced them and insulted them as they kicked the shit outta me. But I also had the sense to use my brain in a conflict, and compromise, thanks to my role model. No, it wasn't my parents. A musician. But that isn't the point.
All I'm saying is read between the lines before making a decision that isn't going to affect your life, but the life of your child. Don't assume the answer is to lock it away from them. Be a parent.
C Pungent
C Pungent
I don't use an electric fence to protect stuff from my one-year-old. She knows it's not OK to take my laptop from the couch and play with it (I suppose it'd be fun to take the wireless card out?) Result: better protection for my laptop (I don't need to worry about forgetting to put it away), and more knowledge of life for my child.
People who need "parental controls" are lazy parents who find it easier to use filtering software than to teach their children to tell right from wrong and to accept existence of different opinions. Taking bad parents' needs into special consideration is just plain silly.
Now, what actual implications this parental control grading system in X-box could have is a different question. It's quite possible that it'll lead to creation of more games that parental control advocates wouldn't like.
-- Stanislav Shalunov
Actually, I like it - hacking the x-box so that it actually can do something useful.
Problem is, will anything useful run on it, or will it be obsolete by the time it is release, because even a bargain basement Compaq pizza box unit will have more power?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I don't know about every family, but in mine the kids (me) know how to control everything. Thus i have setup the password for the v-chip for the TV. So since i'll be the one who would control the on how to setup it on the x-box. Thus making the whole idea pointless as it is in TV case.
Hell, it worked on me! And I was more than a handful when I was little. The only thing that worked to make me stop doing things was to reason with me, not that "don't do that because I say so" which is all too common nowadays. "Don't play with that hammer or you could hurt yourself or break things with it" actually worked.
That kind of reasoning even works on very young kids, babies even.
I concede that as a private enterprise, Microsoft does not owe me any consideration. But my rant was directed at the V-chip, and I think the FCC *does* owe it to me. It would have been trivial to come up with a dozen or so categories of content which could be set independently of one another. Instead, we have three categories, but they're all tied together into the same subjective rating system. The result is that I cannot block violence without also blocking sex and profanity, even if I don't have a problem with my kids being exposed to the latter two.
Incidentally, I probably wouldn't use the V-chip even if my TV had one. My point is simply that even if it is in principle a good solution, it was implemented terribly.
But limited daycare is actually a good thing. It has repeatedly been shown that kids that go to (a good) daycare become more social. Mommy and Daddy and close family should be most of what they see, but not all. Yes - you need to spend time with them and make sacrifices. Throwing out the TV set when you get kids is probably a good idea, at least theoretically. Behaving responsibly and never being drunk in front of your kids are great ideas.
However, your tendency to isolationism is a bad idea. When your kids grow up, you might find out. Maybe you'll find out if your wife leaves you because you're making her a 50ies-style housewife.
Anyhow - think of the V-chip as a right for you as a parent. It doesn't replace your job as a parent. It just enhances it somewhat. Wouldn't you say it is your right as a parent to pick what your kid gets to see?
Stop the brainwash
Everything we've heard so far about the X-box seems to indicate that it's going to be an ordinary console with everything that that entails in terms of tight control over software, severe manufacturer-imposed constraints on products, and ridiculously high licensing costs.
:-)
I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark on the basis of Microsoft's acknowledged ability to create markets for its products, and suggest that in practice the X-box will become the exact opposite of a conventional console. Instead, it will become an entirely open platform, in practice.
Why do I think that this may be so? For a number of reasons:-
First, the console market is already fairly highly subscribed if not totally saturated, so the X-box will have to be pretty special to make a large proportion of gamers reach into their pockets again. All the other popular consoles are closed platforms. A way of becoming "pretty special" is ready and waiting. [The still-to-be-launched Indrema is doing something similar, albeit with a certification hurdle imposed, but hopefully this will not be a substantive barrier.]
Second, it just so happens that virtually all the big players in the console arena either have or will be bringing out new mega-powerful systems within the same time frame, so high technology alone may not be enough, especially since Microsoft is a latecomer to this market. A novel angle may be required to make headway.
Third, Microsoft knows full well that the popularity of Windows stems very largely from the massive buzz that was created by several years worth of unimpeded free-for-all copying of both the O/S and its applications. The official face of Microsoft may protest about "piracy", but unofficially they must know that in reality unconstrained access is an extremely powerful popularizing mechanism, vastly cheaper yet more effective than advertising.
These three things all point in the same direction: Microsoft will either make the platform fully open, or it will create an easy and inexpensive method for all and sundry to write and install games on the X-box, or it will turn a very blind eye to the cracking systems which will appear 2 microseconds after the machine hits the streets. Nothing is gained by restricting what can run on a platform (all the talk of controlling for "quality" is unadulterated rubbish --- people like to decide for themselves, thank you very much), but everything is gained by having thousands of products run on a console rather than merely hundreds.
We'll see.
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My ID is in the 200k's.
In a way I think that's something very good about the "adult-ification" of console systems. By having games they would play too, parents are more likely to be involved. Where before you might "bond" by playing catch, now it's in front of NFL2k
- Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.
"No mom, the x-box *automatically* keeps kids from being able to play violent games!"
"Oh, okay honey..."
*snicker*
This sig is umop apisdn.
I wanted first post, but I have something relevant to the discussion thread that I want to add.
I don't like the idea that a v-chip is being added to the X-box, but if one is added, I feel that it should be controlled by the parents. By allowing this, all the bloody and gory games can still be produced, and there would be a means to protect the younger generation (until they find a way to hack the protection on the data stored there).
According to Merriam-Webster, censorship is defined as 1 a : the institution, system, or practice of censoring b : the actions or practices of censors; especially : censorial control exercised repressively.
:)
How does Microsoft's inclusion of a function allowing someone to block things that they don't want to be viewed in their own private home, a function which is also entirely optional, count as censorship?
As much as I personally don't like it, those who have not reached their majority (age 18 in the US, differs elsewhere) have (basically) no legal rights. Thus, according to the law, their parents can make the decision about what they can see (or play, in this case) entirely legally. I mean, if you are old enough to take care of yourself, you can make decisions about things like this real simply, like by not enabling such "features" on your devices. If you aren't yet old enough to make such decisions, since you are considered a minor, then if the person who is legally responsible for you doesn't let you play Quake 5 when it comes out, too bad. Again, I don't agree with the almost complete lack of rights that minors get, and we could spend a long time talking about those rights in different places (especially schools, and their twisted hypocrisy), but that doesn't change the law; moreover, there are other places than here for that discussion. If you don't like the law, there are ways to change it. That doesn't mean that it's easy, or fun, but it is possible.
I don't recall anyone griping about the fact that lots of DVD players had the ability to disable viewing of discs that were rated at a certain level, but the function necessary to do so is built into lots of DVD players, both software and hardware based.
This article comes across as either a.) Microsoft bashing, OOOID (Or One Of It's Derivatives, another new phrase for your big list of acronyms) or b.) a little too much concern about "censorship." Or course, maybe I'm not paranoid enough, and the evil corporations and in league with the government and going for all they can take from us.
actually in some incarnations, it was...
up up down down left right left right B A B A
SELECT start
There is a value in setting limits for your children and backing those limits up with actions. If you say they can't play M-rated games, then you should make sure they can't on the home system.
And sure, they can play the M-rated games on a friend's machines. But there's value in them knowing that they're stepping over the boundaries that have been set for them. Ignoring that is just a responsibility dodge.
Before the industrial revolution, many of the rural women did stay at home and take care fo the children, house, etc. But they also had an indespensible role in the production of certain types of goods (most notibly textiles). As the industrial revolution took hold and many of these crafts were undermined by large factories, women became disenfranchised from the economic system (particularly in America, Canada, and Europe).
In essence, women had been forced to sacrifice some aspects of identity and worth because of economic changes. For the most part, cottage industries simply were not profitable anymore.
I think that the internet creates a possibility for recreating this lost balance. I think that cottage industries will once again become viable for suplimental income (AND personal growth) and telecommuting may also enable such a balance to exist in a corporate environment. Such a renewed sense of ballance could have some additional benefits as well such as:
1: Exposing children to the carreers of at least one of the parents in a way in which this could not be done otherwise.
2: Renewing the sense of economic self-worth which must have originially been present in the pre-industrial cottage industries.
These are just my opinions. I do think though that they are grounded in history and so I am willing to stand by them.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Since when is allowing parents to control what video games their children play censorship? Parents have a right to restrict what games their children play, and this chip gives them a good way of doing that. Parents should teach their children what games are acceptable and what are not, but no matter how much you teach a kid, curiosity is going to get the best of them eventually.
Many parents don't want their kids exposed to the violence and sexual content on video games, and this chip gives them a way to do that. I think that Slashdotters should recognize their right and desire to do that, even if you disagree that it's the right way to do it.
Just because the chip is there doesn't mean Microsoft or some NSA agent is going to slip into your house and randomly make it impossible for you to play certain games. Not every restriction on software is automatically an attempt by a big faceless entity to censor every aspect of people's lives. This is a legitament use of this technology.
The headline, especially, is just more Slashdot sensationalism.
Obviously I didn't do a very good job of flaming, considering the post got a single reply. If it were flamebait, it sitting at +3 would have got it alot of angry replies.
I'm really beginning to think that Slashdot's moderation system is dying of late. If it's not bad moderation, it's bad meta-moderation. I've given up on meta-modding things us unfair unless it is an obvious abuse (modded up 'goatse' and 'base' comes to mind), and as for moderating, all I do is mod things up that deserve it.
Annyway, I'm sorry for putting forth any thoughts, I'll try to fit the standard 'Slashdot mold' or be a good 'karma whore' next time.
From what I read it simply allows a parent or whomever has the key (a password I presume) to set limits to what the machine can play based on encoding in the games. Its good for developers because companies that develop games for adults can rate them Adult Only and if anyone complains about their contents they can say parents can use the built in V-CHIP. On the other hand banning all games except for those that get a G or PG rating is plain wrong.
I can't beat Contra without the 30 men.
Why is it wrong to give PARENTS a tool to stop their childern from playing games the parents don't approve of? I would guess that it takes place in the PARENTS house so they can control what ever they would like...