Slashdot Mirror
Denmark Poised to Legalize Music Sharing
Cryogenes writes: "Denmark's minister of culture is pushing a law that will legalize private music sharing. This is a logical step for a small country that has no music exports anyway: by weakening copyright they are making their citizens richer without losing revenue. And what with Denmark being an EU member, nobody will dare call them a rogue state or something. Further information on infoanarchy and on Politiken (in danish)."
If you could cure 60% of hiv sufferers, it wouldnt encourage other countries to infect people. If you shoot down 60% of missiles, you encourage other countries to manufacture 60% more missiles. Simple enough. The big picture is pushing money to arms corporations who contributed a lot to bushs campaign funds. That, and the 'feel good' factor of believing that someone is watching over you (hello, GOD!).
Christiana is NOT in Denmark!
And i`d be interested to see sources for your comments about drugs in Holland.
From what i`ve seen/read, no-one has a problem with the laws on drugs there, as they are working just fine (slowly rising average age of heroin users, less violent alcohol related crime etc).
Money isnt an issue - Holland is strong on peoples rights, and if people want to smoke something which doesnt harm anyone else, why shouldnt they be allowed to?
One small detail i`m unsure of. How will the star wars project be able to distinguish between a suitcase with a nuke in it, and any other suitcase in a New York subway, bus, airport etc?
The corrolary to "you do the crime, you do the time" is "you did the time, so why not do the crime?"
isn't this a beautiful irony.... I am fairly certain that Lars Ulrich of Metallica is originally from Denmark?
Yup, napster.dk is already taken.
Blank video and audio cassettes are already taxed. Paper is kind of taxed, in that large institutions pay a special "tax" covering "expected copying (xeroxing) of copyrighted material".
Actually, everything is taxed (VAT), the above are special taxes that goes to a fund (CopyDan) which distribute the money to publishers, record companies and movie distributors. A tiny fraction goes to the artist, most of that goes to those who need it the least, i.e. the big sellers.
Sticks are not taxed, apart from VAT. However, if you mention it to our department of taxation, I'm sure that will be fixed in no time.
Wouldn't all of this directly contradict the European Union Directive on Copyright, which is like the DMCA only much more restrictive? Would the Danish parliament be obliged to weaken or repeal this law to bring it inline with the directive, or weaken the directive? The way I understand it, European member states are expected to pass laws implementing Directives pretty much as they are.
Any experts on European politics care to explain?
move 'Raoul' for great justice.
Meow, indeed. -Ayatollah
--
"How many six year olds does it take to design software?"
dinner: it's what's for beer
DENMARK: What happen???
MINISTER OF JUSTICE: Someone set up us the lawsuit.
MINISTER OF STATE: Main screen turn on.
DENMARK: It's you!!!
RIAA: How are you, Denmark?
All your tunes are belong to us.
You are on the way to embargo.
DENMARK: What you say?!!
RIAA: You have no chance negotiate make your settlement.
DENMARK: Move 'EU'. You know what you doing. For great MP3z!!
--
"How many six year olds does it take to design software?"
dinner: it's what's for beer
Part of the fun of visiting Hong Kong was returning home with CDs containing copies of the latest applications. Is it still so?
__
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Regardless of what you think, no country should tell me as an individual what the hell I can and cannot do. I am responsible unto myself, if I am responsible for hurting another, then I have myself to blame and should be punished accordingly. Also, sleezy shops, there are quite a handful of ugly shops, but its not like they spring out everywhere, there is a limited number and it stays that way. Maybe something can change in a positive way.. but abandonment of an openness only paves the way for bad things.
"Life is all about strategy, mathematics and psychological perceptiveness."
The post says they will compensate copyright holders with a 60 cent CD-R tax.
How well would that go over in the US?
Imagine RIAA members getting 60 cents everytime you backed up your por^H^H^H hard drive.
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
I would like to congratulate the citizens of Denmark on their luck!
Christiania, and legal music ripping == I'm going
...Big Swedish music exports include Abba, Ace of Base, Roxette...
...and as a result, Sweden is now classified as an exporter of weapons of mass destruction.
;)
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
This is not really accurate. Consider Chernobyl for example. It had a serious impact on nearby countries. Well aimed missiles would be considerably more damaging. (For example, have one detonate near a river, and you'll get a spectacular cloud, and one hell of a polluted river)
If 28 missiles really did hit the US, the lucky ones would be those standing right next to where it landed.
Well, they're free to try. However, judging by the way fairtunes is doing, I don't believe it's a terribly successful strategy.
Packaging three (or fewer!) good songs among 12 shitty ones is NOT going to fly anymore. We won't pay.
Hahahaa ... makes me wonder what kind of crap the napsterites are listening to. On one hand, they talk about how the RIAA only sell cheesy pop tunes (a lie), and on the other, comments like these indicate that they're listening to cr*p.
OTOH, a tipjar on the website asking for very-little e-gold might well pay more than selling the same
Yeah, it might, but there's no evidence that it does. (and some that it doesn't.) Catering to freeloaders is not a successful business strategy.
Of course, bad people will not give anything, but ask yourself what you do in an unfamiliar city at a place you'll never eat in again when tipping-time comes.
Isn't that what Craig Mundie said in his speach.
Irrelevant. (Was that supposed to be some sort of ad-hominem?)
The problem with everyone's math is they talk in statistic's.
On the contrary, the problem with the napsterites math is that they don't cite any statistics to support their assertions.
FWIW, I agree that the RIAA are not any better than the napsterites. Both are ruthless amoralists.
...Hillary Rosen woke up this morning and said to herself: ``There's something rotten in the state of Denmark!''
--
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
What about Aqua?
:wq!
Sorry. I assumed (like a stupid American) that you would guess "here" is the United States. 8^)I falsely assumed that most readers are in the States. Many apologies.
Jethro
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Isn't it legal here?! I don't recall any verdicts to come down saying otherwise...
Jethro
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Sweden is in fact quite famous for its metal exports, and not just the subgenre of black metal. There's a whole series of death metal bands from Gothenburg that have pretty much created a new subgenre, and there's even germanic-style power/speed metal such as Hammerfall and Nocturnal Rites. These are very high-profile bands known by metalheads all over the world. I wouldn't be surprised if I even saw a Hammerfall CD in a retail music store(!) in USA. It's really that mainstream.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Actually, there are those of us here in the UK who don't think that it's a very good idea at all, given the dangers of it starting another arms race.
After all, if you had been relying on your nukes to keep you "safe" in a "they'll never attack, it would be suicide" sort of way, then someone deployed a system to neutralise that "safety", wouldn't you try to reestablish the balance?
Still, this is a discussion for another time, methinks - we don't want to go to far Offtopic, do we?
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
And since it was my idea, I get to be lord high emperor.
== Paul Rickard, Editor of The Microsoft Boycott Campaign ====
Well, its nice to see the Danish government wants to allow file sharing - and they're allowing it by taxing writeable CDs.
This isn't a victory for file sharing.
At best, the CD tax is just a throwaway "shut up and take it" measure. At worse, however, it is the start of the idea of enforcing profits. Either way, it sets a dangerous precident.
This is a tradeoff - taxes on specific media sent right to copyright holders so people don't get harassed or arrested for sharing files.
If something like this was tried in the United States, companies would demand taxes on everything - disks, videotapes, audiotapes, photocopier use, etc. It'd be used as nothing more to funnel money to them - enforced profits.
Let's hope Denmark's idea DOESN'T catch on.
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
Now, that is ironic, and I like it a lot
Hi Bo! Last time I talked to him (the linuxpusher), he said he'd been talking to someone and wouldn't have to pay the tax. Business-exemption, I believe. Bit of a bitch for the rest of us, though... Something is rotten i Denmark, and chances are there's a tax on it. Thomas
Well, I'm completely against CD taxes, BUT... If they are going to collect them, do id Software, and Epic, and Planet Moon, etc, get their cut? The only thing I use CDs for other than backups, etc, is games. I actually own Giant, Q3, and UT, but I know many people who've pirated them - more people than have burned MP3s...
So, to be fair, the RIAA has got to step back and let that tax be fairly divided. And now with DiVX, the MPAA is going to be involved. (And they seem to think movies are more important than music...)
It'll be nice to see a little infighting.
This is not true!
The intetion was to allow digital copying, but problems with royalties on writable cd-roms stopped the law.
There is now a draft in the works. You can see this here
Søren
this is really not such a big deal. As it is now Danish law says that it is illegal to make digital! copies of digital content. (Me reading slashdot in Denmark is borderline criminal behaviour since my computer makes a digital copy of a digital original).
With everyone owning cd-burners and with compression technology (mp3) this law is outdated. It came about in response to the music industries wish to protect itself with the advent of music cd's.
Danish copyright law states that everyone is entitled to make personal copies of published material. You can copy books, videos etc. It is of course illegal to publish such material, or to sell it. You can only make personal copies.
The new law proposes the same restrictions on digital content. Any published material may be copied for personal use. The bearing on Napster is of course that when music is available on Napster it is in fact published material. As such anyone can make a personal copy.
It will still be illegal to publish material on the internet without consent of the copyright holders, so Danes will still be prohibited from sharing music via Napster.
Søren
Yeah Denmark is certainly a pretty liberal country, alas I have learned recently that they are poised to recognize Cientology as a religion, this will be a major blow to other European countries like Germany and France who are trying their possible to stop this evil cult !
Hi
;)
Being Danish, I feel I must make a few comments here.
Currently, it's illegal to make a personal copy of a CD. Say, one for the car and one for the living room. I think this also includes MP3's, but the laws are hopelessly outdated. (Actually, it's illegal to make exact digital copies. If you run your CD through a Digital-to-Analog-to-Digital converter, you should technically be OK.)
The new law (in the making) suggests that it should be legal to make digital copies for personal use. Second generation copies (copy-of-a-copy) should not be legal, as a mean to avoid music piracy.
The artists should be reimbursed with funds coming from a new CDR-tax, of appr. $0.50 pr. disc[1]. (Good thing I just stockpiled 100 80 min. Kodaks, heh.
Of course, we copy stuff as crazy, so I don't see this being of much practical importance.
On a somewhat related note, this is the country that just ruled that *linking* to MP3's is illegal. Yes, two kids, 16 at the time of the "crime", had been having a competition of who could collect the most MP3's from their homepages. They weren't storing them, just linking to them. Just got a bill for about $15.000. Freedom of speech, anyone?
Bo
[1] I find this somewhat fscked up, as not all CDR's are used to pirate data. Granted, in reality, that's probably the vast majority, but take my friend for instance. He runs a small side-business (linuxpusher.dk) selling homeburned Linux-distros. If the new law comes through, he's going to be sending ~$100 away in taxes each month, for something he doesn't have anything to do with.
Don't forget that it's unreliable. As SMDI found, it's very easy to distord a signal so that the recognition fails, but without noticable effects to the human listening.
I like Fairtunes a lot (they take e-gold!) but to be successful (IMO) any give-a-tip system would have to be right there on the Napster application, staring the person in the face. I'd agree that this is less likely since Napster has sold (out?) to Bertelsman(sp?), so when I say "Napster," please think "whatever file-sharing program ends up being dominant." From what I've seen, there's space for an e-gold account number on the Napster application, and I think that Napster would benefit as a company (and in a legal/PR sense) by encouraging this, though I doubt it's in the interest of Bertelsman(sp?).
/. readers a bit of e-gold to play with, if they send me an account number.
I didn't mean Napster users listened to crap, I just meant that folks won't tip for it, and won't any longer have to buy it or have it in their homes, and ultimately I think this will affect music in a positive way. I'd like to store ONLY songs I like, and not store any that I dislike. Before that was impossible, and now it's possible (and easy). Sorry if I was unclear.
I don't think that asking for tips is "catering to freeloaders," and I think the other person's response covers this aspect pretty well. Ultimately, with the present versions of file sharing software, it's very hard NOT to be a "freeloader" and get any use out of the product, right?
I'm sorry if you dislike my analogy, but when I think about it, with cash and in a diner I'll probably never eat in again I'm a LOT more anonymous than when I make an e-gold spend, and the recipient can see at least my account name & number. e-gold isn't anonymous cash (Mr. Greenspan prints that stuff, on nice greenish paper, and it USED to be backed with the filthy yellow metal). I tend to make my tips as anonymous as possible, putting them under something so that the intended recipient will be the one to find and get them.
As for my! heart being in the right place, thanks, but actually I'm an incredibly-greedy anarcho-capitalist evil "heartless" libertarian type of guy, and I try to make it clear that many of my posts* are self-interested. I benefit if/when more people (especially artists and programmers!) use e-gold, so I hang around here for that reason; and in order not to be TOO much of a pain in the ass, I offer to click
JMR
* I've even said that someone should hack the Slashcode so that site-owners can sell moderator points (this may or may-not be a good idea, but I think on balance it's good, and it's definitely good for ME!:) I'd be very happy if someone here did this, I haven't the skill. Thanks.
Try e-gold - (contact me). I'm NOT e-
If major artists get about 25 cents from the sale of a fifteen dollar CD, they should try to migrate to a tips-for-what-you-like model, as suggested by Courtney Love, among others. As seller of a payment system that allows efficient, instant, international micro (or macro) payments, I'm of course self-interested when I say this, but it goes beyond that, and I don't care if they also use competing payment systems. The important thing is to keep the RIAA from filtering out the lion's share for -- as Ms. Love so eloquently puts it -- trips to Scores (a famous NYC stripper bar, for those who don't know).
This idea at first sounds bad for the RIAA, and it is, but it's a double-edged sword. Musicians are gonna have to get used to only being paid for good work. Packaging three (or fewer!) good songs among 12 shitty ones is NOT going to fly anymore. We won't pay. OTOH, a tipjar on the website asking for very-little e-gold might well pay more than selling the same number of CDs as free-downloads given away.
Of course, bad people will not give anything, but ask yourself what you do in an unfamiliar city at a place you'll never eat in again when tipping-time comes. I leave a tip if the service was halfway decent -- and a really-nice tip if it was great. I don't do it for the recipient, I do it for ME (I once worked for tips, that makes a difference I've found). Anyway, I'm still working to get folks to see that e-gold is a solution to the Napster "problem." It's been slow, as more folks want to argue (at least, that was my experience at CFP99) and shout than think about a new way of paying or being paid for what we want online.
JMR
Try e-gold - (contact me). I'm NOT e-
$1/disc... ouch, they haven't been that expensive here for a couple years... darn VAT. Decent discs run ~$.25-30 each, with cheap ones coming in ~$.15 each. Heck, you can get CD-RWs for $.45-.50 a piece. $1 is a heck of an increase. I think I've seen the Audio CD-Rs for ~$2. So with the VAT, does that mean if you buy a Dodge Dakota (~$25,000) in the UK, the VAT increases it to $100k? (showing my total ignorance) or is media just amazingly taxed?
--
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
http://www.covenant.dk/
Fruity pop cyberpunk music.
Hands in my pocket
What are the real odds for US Customs to catch a container hosting a nuclear bomb ?
Have you any idea how many countainers enter the US every day ? Why use missiles when you have trucks to deliver your warheads...
(I said container because Irak miniaturisation technologies aren't on par with US ones...)
ala Amsterdam, though instead of hanging out in coffee bars getting stoned, they'll hang out in cyber-cafe's trading MP3s.
And when you get back to the States, Customs will go over your laptop and CDs with a fine tooth comb.
Sheesh. I can go through 5 cds in a couple of days.
I hope that I can get $50/100cds later on today.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
From what I can see;
:)
1. It allows you to copy from Napster to your CD/HD legally. A country of legal leeches.
2. It allows you to rent a DVD/movie and legally rip it for your own use.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Isn't Aqua Norwegian?
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
From the CDR Faq: Because of the media tax imposed by the Canadian government (see section (7-13)), you are allowed to copy any music for your own personal use. This means that you can go over to a friend's house and copy any number of discs you like, so long as they are for your own use. You are not allowed to make copies of music and then give them to others.
You can check the law yourself. The recording industry kinda skipped over this one. At least you get something for yet another miserable tax, er, levy. After all, just because a corporation doesn't LIKE something, doesn't make it ILLEGAL. What is illegal after all? The government is supposed to reflect the will of the people and the best interest of society, not the short term gain of the RIAA. (Especially if you're not IN America). That's why copyright is supposed to expire; why you have the right to parody and fair use; etc.
Now, does this apply to file sharing software? It hasn't been argued in court that I'm aware of, but perhaps it should be. After all, it's legal for me to copy cds that a friend has - why not their mp3 equivilants? Keeping mind of course, for personal use implies that there is no financial gain, which kinda hurts napster-like models. This might give some canadian users some power if they get hassled by their ISP for whatever.
..don't panic
I'm in NJ and I use fast.net. There's no special software needed for installation and you have a straightforward, honest-to-goodness connection (via 56K, DSL & higher). I use the Freesco Linux floppy router/NAT/firewall to share my 56k dialup connection with a couple computers. No busy signals and the connection is always quick responsive.
You get two email addresses, 5 megs of ftp/www space and access to pretty much every newsgroup (even the naughty ones).
The cost? $19.95/mo or $15.95/mo if you prepay 6 months. It's even cheaper if you prepay for a year ($13.95 or something like that). Their number is 888-321-fast. I highly recommend them. My dad uses Netcarrier.com and their service is similar and pretty good, too.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
As much as I find this extremely amusing, I'm pretty sure that this would violate international copyright agreements.
I'm not _completely_ sure off course, but imho all "civilized" countries have a lot of agreements on this.
This is my sig. Hooray !
America is a rogue state. It is not a Democracy but a Plutocracy. It should be expelled from all international bodies
Oh no, please don't do that. Whatever will we do if we don't get to pay for 25% of the UN budget while they pass anti-US resolutions, or pay for our military to defend the rest of the world?
until they democratically elect a government
We did. Perhaps you missed it, but Bush won around 5 separate recounts. Deal with it.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
here in the netherlands, ISPs are not allowed to give out your name to some random company.
and ofcourse I can claim anyone to be my friend. Can't say meeting is a prerequisite.. a penpal who I've never met can easily be my friend. One could even make the point that everyone is your friend until proven otherwise. RIAA lawyers? they don't tell me who is or isn't my friend..and I highly doubt "friend" is a legally defined term.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
depends on your definition of 'friend' I guess. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. the RIAA is my enemy. anyone who downloads music is RIAA's enemy. And damnit, the RIAA will never tell me who is, or isn't my friend :)
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
I have used Napster and I have used Gnutella. Though I am still torn between being loyal to the artists and trying to rebel against the recording company. I agree that taking a bit of money out of the Recording Industry's pocket is acceptable, I do not agree that taking a little money out of the artists' pockets is acceptable. What can be done about this? The only thing I see is some kind of Union of Music Artists. Followed by a protest, which would include no new music, no shows, etc.
Probability of this happening, about 1%.
--
microsoft, it's what's for dinner
bq--3b7y4vyll6xi5x2rnrj7q.com
it's a sig, wtf?
Often when I look for a song nowadays its because it is no longer in stock (rare techno songs I listen to) so I search for it to hear for a few times. Other times I look for a song I may have heard and like, wanted to purchase but didn't know the title or the artist, again in future plans to buy the CD.
All the governments and companies are doing at this point is waisting money and arguing over spilled milk which never fell from their cup.
Why not create an AntiNapster based site where those artists concerned with theft of songs could enter their names into that database, and have those songs filtered. After all studies have shown that people who download mp3's end up buying the songs anyways. I'm sure once some of those artists start realizing how much their competition is making off the move, they'll get those dildos out of their asses and make that switch.
Ever notice how when things are "taboo" more people will sometimes seek it out with greater passion than they normally would if it were readily obtainable? Industry sparking all these "anti-mp3" issues dig their own coffin, and I wonder if they're too stupid to realize this, or are trying to prove a point to bolster their own egos, or company reputations.
Solution: Find a real life Tyler Durden and sic him on RIAA, and others like them.
Blogger is hazardous to your E-Health
Want Root?
>>>OTOH, Denmark is not some music loving college boy, who you can push around with legal threats.
:-)
It would certainly bring a new meaning to the phrase you and who's army?
And by Lars I am of course talking about one of music sharing most notable opponents, Lars Ulrich of Metallica, native of Denmark.
No, you can get really high in The Netherlands. Pot is still illegal in Denmark.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
This might not be directly related, but it kinda goes in the same direction: I expect the EU or at least some of it's countries, to declare DVD Region coding illegal. I see a lot of political forces pointing in that direction, here, and perhaps Denmark, France or one of the Scandinavian countries will soon do the big step... (I guess you know that region free DVD players are completely legal in Europe.)
Anyhow, more power to the danes!
Sigged!
Id like to quote two paragraphs from the Danish article:
1: According to the bill, it will be legal to download music from Napster and store it on your own harddrive, but not to make it publicly available on your homepage.
2: It is illegal to make a copy of a copy - eg you may only copy the original CD.
As far as I understand this, it doesn't legalize unlimited filesharing - once you have a copy, you're not allowed to distribute it, neither are you allowed to make yourself another copy of the copy !
(Just my point of view, anyway)
//lindholm
I live in Amsterdam (in the Jordaan) and I can tell you that as long as you stay out of certain areas, you won't really be bothered by Weed-smoking tourists. Sure if you go to the red light district, the leidseplein, or whatever, it is horrible. But take the Jordaan for example. I think it's possible to maintain the beauty of the city while keeping teenage-tourists. If only they would stop digging the place up ;)
2) I'm not implying that Denmark is the capital of Sweden, I just forgot which country it was while I was typing my reply.
3) I'm from Europe, I know where Denmark and Sweden are located.
4) I couldn't agree more, there IS a world outside of the USA. And what I like the most about it, is that not everyone needs a fscking lawyer, just to walk down the streets or do some grocery shopping.
-8<--
You didn't save Europe, the British did.
There are less drug addicts in Holland than anywhere in the world
Talking about elections??? I s'pose I don't have to remind you about your latest president's election?
Your kids aren't allowed to drink until 21, but carrying guns is no problem?
Fighting each other of IP rights, and lawyers at hospitals?
Please get real
-8<--
-8<--
Ok so if this is the kind of thing that would destroy music (says the RIAA), I would assume that there are no musicians in Denmark?
I mean, surely if they aren't using the RIAA's system then nobody over there is bothering to compose music! Right?
Sigs are awesome huh?
Please! try to keep that aqua thing a secret... and yeah, we're the capital of Sweeden.
watch where you point that statement, boy... just because there's only a couple of hardcore black metal fans out there that buy their music from sweden, norway and denmark, doesn't mean it has NO music export.
So does this reopen the possibility of an off-shore Napster server?
Kiwaiti
Member of the Legion Of Microsoft Haters
There is already something similar, but uniquely twisted, in the UK.
Over here you can buy normal CDRs for very little (about $1 per disk) - the only tax involved is standard VAT (sales tax). However, if you go into a shop you will see other CDRs, labelled "CDR Audio", which look identical, but cost far more. Last I saw you were looking at around $5 per disk! These disks actually are identical to regular CDRs, but with a bit flipped somewhere in the media id field. The "consumer" CD recorders (the standalone hifi ones) will only work with these disks. The idea is that Joe Bloggs with an audio-only CDR unit is obviously copying audio CDs, which are probably copyrighted. Therefore he has to use the expensive disks, which pay an amount (no idea how much) to the UK equivalent of the RIAA.
It's fine for most people though, if you use a computer based CDR unit it will take the cheap disks, and they work great in all players. I have also heard shop assistants telling (l)users that they have to use the expensive ones for all audio recording, otherwise it won't play back in a regular cd player. I guess the shop make a higher margin on the CDA disks.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
There is nothing good about copyright!
"The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
Getting something that's illegal is still illegal. And an unauthorized copy of a copyrighted work is illegal.
--
Free Mac Mini
If I have a CD and my buddy wants a copy, I can legally give him one (there's so court case that says it's okay, but I don't know where it is).
But that's a bit different then putting something online for anybody to grab. That's not really sharing with your friends, that's closer to distribution.
--
Free Mac Mini
Had to do it.
You can read the lawproposal online at Forslag til lov om ændring af ophavsretsloven., it will help you if you understand danish, because there are no translations.
A quote: Forslaget indebærer, at der kun gives adgang til kopiering af tekst, musik og billeder m.v. i digital form til personlig brug f.eks. med henblik på optagelse af radio- og tv-udsendelser til tidsforskudt brug, kopiering af en musik-cd til bilen, til sommerhuset eller til en walkman, kopiering til en opsamlings-cd og kopiering til en pc med henblik på elektronisk afvikling inden for husstanden. Derimod vil det ikke være tilladt at fremstille digitale eksemplarer, der bruges uden for den enkelte husstand, f.eks. kopiering til bekendte og skolekammerater. Det vil heller ikke være tilladt for køberen af et digitalt leveret musikværk at videresende musikværket via e-mail til venner og bekendte. Kopiering til personlig brug omfatter endvidere ikke kopiering som led i arbejde eller undervisning.
A rough translation: The proposal implies that it only will be allowed to make copies of text, music and pictures and so forth, in digital form for personal use, for example the recording of radio- and tv-broadcasts for timeshifting, copying af music-cd's for the car, holidayresidence or for a walkman, copying of sample-cd's for use in the household. It will not be allowed to make digital copies, that will be used outside of the individual household, f.ex. copying for friends and schoolmates. It will further not be allowed for the buyer of a digital musicproduct to give away copies to to friends or aqaintances via email. Further copying for personal use does not imply copying related to work or studies.
So I don't see how this can legalize Napster, it will only decriminalize the downloading, but the users are not allowed to share their collection with the work, and isn't that the purpose of Napster?But at least it will be legal to use a Browser in Denmark now, because the existing law prohibits all digital copying, and as you all know, a browser allways makes digital copies, one in the RAM-cache and one on the disk-cache. That was an oversight in the old law, and it was never uphold.
Why don't you tax cassettes, and video cassettes, and well, hard drives because I can copy virtually anything onto those. And hey, now that I think about it, I often copy poems without the permission of the author onto a medium called 'paper', better tax that too. Oh, and sticks. Sometimes I use them to scratch symbols into the dirt without the permission of the author.
Disclaimer: MINAA (Mummy! I'm Not An Animal!)
if i'm gonna be paying a 60 cent cd-r tax, i'll just stop buying them.
well done, that's exactly what the RIAA want.
> And what with Denmark being an EU member,
> nobody will dare call them a rogue state or something.
It might be easier to get Denmark, than Russia or China, because Denmark is an EU member. Membership ties countries to all sorts of rules made by the other member countries. If a country doesn't abide by the EU laws, there are all kinds of sanctions.
Even the US copyright laws have been extended because of agreements with other countries.
- James - [IMAGE]
size would become an issue. you could use compact flash - ibm has that nice gig microdrive though im not sure what cameras that can be used in.
-f
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www.blackant.net
no. i mean steganographic.
stenography is writing in shorthand.
steganography is hiding information in such a way that people cannot tell you are hiding a message.
outguess hides data in image (pnm and jpg) files in such a way that you cannot tell the image is also storing data. There is also StegFS, the steganographic file system, in which other people cannot discern information about the file system, like how much space is being used, how many files there are, filenames, etc.
The whole point is that if no one even knows you are hiding something, then they won't know to look. With information which is just encrypted, then people can see that there is something for them to attempt to decipher. But this means that steganography is security through obscurity, so you'd want to couple it with some strong encryption too.
-f
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www.blackant.net
Denmark`s pretty cool. You could pop into Christiana, and trade both w33d & mp3`s and its pretty much tolerated! This is the country which was the first (in the world? certainly europe) to allow same sex marriage and other funky progressive ideas. It is also free from annoying pro-US tendancies, unlike England (gawd bless `er).
Hmmm...I hear Shawn unbolting those servers and filling out his dual citizenship forms.
I get this image in my mind. What time is it in New York, Sam? I bet they're asleep in New York. I bet they're asleep all over the world. Lars Ulrich in SS getup and a pencil mustache---his mullet done up in Princess Leia buns---"Vell, Herr Fanning, your ideas may be akzeppted in Kobenhavn, but zee Reich does not approve. I am afraid you will not receive your transit papers."
Does the Danish national anthem sound as good as the Marsellaise? You have to give the Danes credit: per capita of effort they fought about sixteen years longer than the French. Looks like they continue the tradition.
"there's nothing rotten in the state of denmark"
YES it is!!!!!!!!!!!!
check out www.christiania.org
But lets not forget Denmark has very strict copyright laws, its the only(?) country on the planet where its not legal to make a copy of a music cd. And this law is of course only for private use, not putting it up on the net - only two weeks ago two kids were found guilty in the courts for putting up links to mp3 - the danish music industry had filed the suit
--
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
The future may be sooner than you think, eh?
The only good thing about copyright is the incetive it provides to produce new works. Therefore, it should only apply to works that would not be produced in the absence of copyright (ie. not to email) and it should only prevent copying that prevents the copyright holder from large scale commercial distribution of the work (ie. large scale commercial distribution by someone else).
It should be remembered that when copyright was first put in place it the US it was much more limited: protection only applied to books and a couple other specific things, protection only lasted 14 years and there was a requirement to register and publish.
Reply to your off topic question:
...we have more freedom than most people on this planet :)
YES, there are no monitoring, screening or filtering on what you do with your internet connection. ISPs might not carry all newsgroups but that's about it.
Denmark is a nice country
-Waerloga
Ever heard of Aqua? D:A:D? (formerly known as Disneyland after Dark) Michael Learns to Rock? (Huge success in Asia) Check this danish portal for more. /neurox
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
so, because we can "only" stop about 60% (I've heard that a laser based system would be closer to 90%) of the warheads launched at us, we shouldn't bother? If you can only cure 60% of the people infected with HIV, would you not do it because it's only "60% effective?"
You always have to consider cost-benefit analysis. That's exactly what Bush has just done with arsenic. He figures, "If it cost $80 billion to lower the arsenic content to 10 ppb, and saves 50 lives, is it worth it? Is it not possible that 50 extra people would fall below the poverty line and die of exposure if the $80 billion weren't spent otherwise?"
So, consider cost-benefit analysis on the nuclear shield. If we spend $80 billion on a nuclear sheild, and of the 100 nuclear warheads launched at Washington, D.C., we successfully shoot down 90 of them... what have we really gained?
"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he deems himself your master."
1) Clinton didn't want it. He backed off of support for it before the ink was dry. Bush simply extended Clinton's policy of "pretend it ain't there" to "recognize that it's there, and cancel it".
2) Congress didn't want it. The senate voted 95-0 against ratification of the Kyoto agreement.
3) Europe doen't want it. The vast majority of European leaders saw this treaty for the dog that it was, and have been dragging their feet on it for months. Many of them are secretly relieved that Bush dumped it, because now they can simply cast the US as the bad guy. No treaty, and nobody blames you... If you are the Prime Minister of Great Britain, that's what you call "win-win".
4) Those who understand its full impact don't want it. The cost of energy would rise dramatically under this agreement. Can you say "another Great Depression"? Some people in ivory towers like to pretend that economic arguments are all about greed... but the truth is that the super-rich can ride out tough times without inconveniece; the true impact of economic downturns is on the other end of the spectrum - the middle-class becomes the poor, while the poor become destitute.
I did not vote for Bush, but he was 100% right for dropping Kyoto. Everybody knew it was DOA in Washington anyway... Bush was just the only one willing to stand up and take the hit for it. (This seems to be an emerging trend for Bush. Not since Truman has a president been so willing to make the tough choices, polls be damned. Like I said, I was never a Bush supporter, but I am starting to begrudgingly admit that he is not half as bad as I though he would be).
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
No. It is perfectly legal for me to borrow a friend's CD, copy it, and return it. I cannont, however, copy it for another friend. I can only copy it for personal use.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
*ouch* that smarts... c'mon that's funny... er maybe just to me...
E.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
It will be interesting to see how the RIAA reacts [if this laws passes], either by claiming that Denmark violates international law, or by trying to get .dk banned altogether, or both. Perhaps they will lobby to change the law in such a fashion that access to file sharing and MP3 sites / networks must be forbidden for foreigners.
Maybe the RIAA will advocate the US declare war on Denmark for threatening the dominance of american culture. Or try to ban the internet because it is such a threat to their way of life (greed)
In general, I like the fact that more and more major artisits are starting to side with the Napster side of the argument, seeing how the major labels are abusing the artists they say they are protecting.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
OTOH, Denmark is not some music loving college boy, who you can push around with legal threats.
Which will be interesting! The only viable way to fight this is by threat^H^H^H^H^H^H diplomatic measures from the US gubynmynt.
If Mr. Bush and his cronies however apply the same rethoric as the one applied when they canceled Kyoto then we are all in for a new, pretty nasty trade war.
Most Europeans are still pretty pissed about Mr. Presidents attitude problem.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
I feel the same way. Im Canadian. There are very powerful lobbies in Washington (Military-Industrial-Complex) who are buying this crap. Bush is a twit. A pawn. Americans should be ashamed that this POS is their president.
Him firing up this star-wars project - is stupid beyond reason. Who the fuck wants another arms race? Im with you brother - no goddamn way should they be doing this crap.
If they wanted to start a movement to cover the whole globe, in an international effort to end the ICBM threat from ANY nation, where the system was in control of the UN (or the military council if the permanent members were removed) - then I may consider it... otherwise this is an aggressive effort by the US and should be condemned by My Government and Yours.
I have one of those Olympus digital cams with the smartmedia cards, and a PCMCIA adapter... the card shows up just like any other drive. So technically, you could dump some mp3s on the card, and stuff it back in the cam. The cam couldn't read them, all it could see would be the pictures. Granted, you might have to have a pretty large set of the smartmedia cards (they're only 64mb in size, I think), but still... yet another cool way to screw the Man.
Akardam Out
Moderators mod parent down! That link is WORSE than goatse!
Sacrificing Karma to preserve innocence
Pinky: "What are we going to do tomorrow night Brain?"
Pinky: "What are we going to do tomorrow night Brain?"
Brain: "I would tell you Pinky but this 120 char limi
What about e.g. Aqua, Michael Learns To Rock, D:A:D etc.?
Wouldn't they have something to say about this?
You're right that the Danish government has been discussing this, but it's unlikely it will happen because of the it's reputation.
And by the way nobody really cares about religion in Denmark except a very small percentage. Actually the common protestant church in Denmark have serious problems getting people to churches on sundays - in fact all days. The only thing people uses the churches for are when somebody dies, or somebody wants to get married.
ha -- I love it when dumbfuck knowitall americans get their comeuppance from folks who actually live where the former is trying to spout off about.
fisfhcuerkl
nice one.
The Danish although they have a reputation for being liberal appear to be a bit xenophobic too. IIRC one of the main issues at a recent referendum about joining the EU was concern over immigration.
About Amsterdam, I really dislike what is happening to that city, the city itself is quite beautiful but I'm appaled by all the sleazy coffeshops and drug-smoking-thinking-it's-soooo-cool tourists. Interestingly enough the city recently realized that they weren't making a lot of money off the whole soft-drugs thing. They realized that it would be more profitable to have older (richer) tourists that have lots to spend coming to the city to see the museums/architecture etc then having a bunch of teenage American backpackers walking around spending all their money on weed.
About Amsterdam, my comment on that was not about the Dutch having problems with laws on drugs, it was about 2 things:
I don't like seeing sleazy coffeshops and stoned tourists taking over the town (it's a matter of opinion)
The city of Amsterdam realizing that they can make more money off rich older tourists that aren't so interested in smoking weed but have lots to spend in Hotels, museums etc. etc. than they can make money off weed smoking teenage backpackers.
Regarding me backing up my claims, exactly which claim do you want me to back up ? How about you back up your claims about Dutch drug laws "working just fine" ? I'm Dutch and I now for a fact that the drug laws are not working "just fine" and that violent alcohol related crime *is* on the increase.
Yeah, funny huh!?
AC is AC
I can't say it for sure but, it would seem that bush has no bad attitude, he is just plain dumb.
...what do you expect from a guy that was drunk fo r large part of his adult life...
...or maybe it's just me
It's funny really: situation with China and enviromentalists, oli companies, etc...
AC is AC
>>Christiana is NOT in Denmark!
>YES it is!!!!!!!!!!!!
No it isn't, its a self-proclaimed freestate in the middle of Copenhagen. When you leave the place you are welcomed by a friendly sign stating that you're about to enter the European union.
>O, by the way, I speak Dutch, so where I'm from?
:-)
Vriesland, obviously
So Denmark hopes to appease the copyright-holders by having a media tax since most people buying blank CDs are pirates anyway. Okaaayyy...
What about me? I'm deaf. Yes I do wear a cochlear implant/hearing aid combo to help me hear, but it's not perfect. I can't enjoy lyrics as it's just noise and I can't understand what it is they're saying/singing. And I have to pay this tax because I might pirate music that I realistically won't ever use/listen to?
Send the RIAA my way. Let them try to tell me (and the world) that I'm probably going to pirate music and therefore I should pay up.
IMHO something seems just wrong about a law passed that basically assumes that everyone is a pirate until proven otherwise. And even if they ARE proven otherwise, they STILL have to pay up.
What happened to "presumed innocent until proven guilty?" Shouldn't the burden be on the RIAA to recover their (imaginary?) losses?
Oh, and I'm also a software developer. Where's my cut of the tax money for all the losses caused by software piracy?
Now, the RIAA wil retaliate by forcing our government to stop importing ikea furniture! How will i furnish my new apartment?? Oh wait, Ikea is from sweden © © © Damn, there goes my +5, Funny©
----
One of us needs to stick ones' head in a bucket of ice water.
- Hobbes
Or if you encrypt the files, could you use the DMCA to prevent them from going through your files?
How to counter this ? At first I thought many studios and artists might refuse to tour in Denmark, and perhaps even refuse to sell their CDs and music videos in Denmark. But then the problem would be brought back to them in spades as this would force people to download music.
This is funny, because I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that Lars Ulrich (of Metallica) graduated from High School in Copenhagen, Denmark.
...All I can say is that my life is pretty strange...
Isn't this equivalent to tariffs and other barriers to free trade, whereby a country attempts to hinder the ability of foreign entities to sell to its market? This would discourage the incentive for efficient production, since countries that aren't efficient or don't produce would simply erect barriers such as this to prevent more efficent producers from selling to their market.
Yes I understand without the govts. support even this would be dificult because if the govt is disinclined towards a rule they have been forced to form, they would hardly take the effort to punish people violating it.
There's always sufficient, but not always at the right place nor for the right folks.
It won't be developped until at least 2012-2015. If it's ever finished. ;)
An the proponent even admit that it won't be more than 60% efficient.
Talk about a shield.
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
Isn't this just Denmark asking for a cultural war in the long term? Unless they place some sort of reverse firewall (and even then), how is it any different from Chinese or Russian rogue publishers printing out millions of copies of American authors' work and selling them for pennies with no royalties? It is still stealing culture, and now it's government sanctioned. They should be ashamed; I've been to Denmark and they still listen to music from outside of the country, buy cultural creative products that were made in America and now they want to sanction the stealing of products which their own retail community distributes for profit and as commodity. I don't support this at all.
This is pretty wacky.
what the?
great comedy company.
Lars Ulrich would sleep with one eye open after the Danish legalized music sharing.
Hmmm... I can set set up my web server in CA or TX and be subject to all sorts of corporate and government bully boy tactics, or I can pay slightly more and set up a hosting deal in Copenhagen and be protected under their favorable sharing laws. I can put up all my favorite MP3's up on my website or share them via a shell account, and fear little or no reprecussion.
Hmmm... I think I'll setup in Texas... NOT!
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Actually Denmark has an exporting music-industry (remember that annoying "I'm a Barbie-girl" by Aqua?) these years in the ultra-pop genre. The main-export target is Asia. BTW Lars Ulrik's born and raised in Denmark...
The actual reason for this law is to protect the citizen who is downloading something that he/she has no chance of knowing whether the stuff is copyrighted.
"It will be interesting to see how the RIAA reacts, either by claiming that Denmark violates international law, or by trying to get .dk banned altogether, or both. Perhaps they will lobby to change the law in such a fashion that access to file sharing and MP3 sites / networks must be forbidden for foreigners."
;P
Now I would like to see that. A private (oligopolic) organization asking for the US Govt to BAN an entire country from internet access to the US. I believe this would be the final nail in thier coffin.
Mayday, Mayday... fire coming from engine... RIAA going down...
I need to grab some popcorn, this is going to be interesting to watch at the least.
RA7
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"Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds" - RWE
Napster were to sell out to these people, then what could the RIAA do about it. They wouldn't be able to enforce any type of "filtering" on them. Ah well, just an idea...
Put into a different light, even among christian sects there is dissention on who should and should not be recognized as a religion. Fundamentalist christians think that Roman Catholics are devil worshippers, at least if Jack Chick is to be believed. What about the Church of Latter Day Saints? Some guy has a vision that said polygamy is OK and its later retracted. Presently it still qualifies as a religion (a very rich one no less).
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
Not being a big consumer of Danish goods, I'll be able to watch interestedly, worrying only about the free speech issues. No big difference there- it's been worrying me for a while. This just adds fuel to the fire.
I spent a year in Iraq looking for WMD and all I found was this lousy sig.
Ah, I see that my post was modded down for being "offtopic." I seem to remember the submission having the following line:
And what with Denmark being an EU member, nobody will dare call them a rogue state or something.
Might I helpfully suggest a website to the moderator in question...
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
the worship of Roman gods be a recognized religion, and as such be exempt from taxation?
Worship of "pagen" gods or whathave you is protected speach/religion in the US, provided that any sacrifices etc to this god are done in a manner consistent with local/state/federal food preperation guidelines.
As for polygamy, it was ruled to be illegal and unprotected because of the fact that marriages do not need to be preformed in a place of worship. Marriage, argued the court, is a social contract, not necessarily a religious one, and is thus regulateable by the government.
Yea yea yea... I know offtopic. Sorry, just wanted to clear this up.
Oh, and being Catholic myself, I can tell you that while we don't reguard Fundamentalists as "devil worshipers" I generaly support them in their efforts to seek professional counseling.
This has been another useless post from....
Killfile(TGK)
No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
Denmark is one of the most progressive countries that I have ever seen. Now does this mean that there could be a Napster.dk type system. YES, but what will happen is that ISP like AOL, Earthlink and other simular ISP will prevent traffic from those locations.
Currently I use Earthlink. They will not allow IP traffic from certain web sites, also they do not let you connect or use port 25 ( the e-mail port ) if it's not to their server . It's very easy to see that if AOL/Timewarner stop the traffic early in the game, file trading users will not notice the establishment of the denmark napster, or anything that could cost them long term revenue drain.
My offtopic question is: are there any dialup services that give you full freedom to surf. If so could someone please advise me. My location is NJ.
Thank You
Onepoint
if you see me, smile and say hello.
I think I might have mis-stated the problem.
/. could help me find another dialup isp.
1) Earthlink prevents access to certain sites and IP address. I dont know how they do it but I did confirm that with EarthLink I also confirmed that AOL does it also.
2) EarthLink will not let you access the port related to e-mail sending ( sorry I can not recall the # ) of another server. I have tried to set up my e-mail list on my web site but I was refused connect because earthlink prevents it. Also confirmed with earthlink.
I was hoping someone on
ONEPOINT
if you see me, smile and say hello.
I posted and all I got was this stupid sig
- That's not the job of the anti-missile defense. The anti-missile defense handles... missiles!
- If you want to find a suitcase with a nuke in it, you could start with the nice X-ray opacity of heavy metals like uranium and plutonium. The elements of a bomb would stand out really well at any airport baggage-checker. Then there is the background radioactivity of the bomb materials; use a gamma spectrometer and you're going to find the bomb even in a ship-load of containers. Use a gamma camera and you can pick the individual container. You can do this without having to board the ship.
This stuff is all old hat; the kind of detectors required have been in use at nuclear plants for about 20 years (they even detect radon on people's clothes). Saddam Hussein has had nukes for about ten years now. He hasn't nuked the USA yet (I'm sure we would have all heard of that). If it's so easy to put a nuke on a ship and blow up a port city, why hasn't he? Maybe it's not quite as easy to sneak things in as some people think, and finding a nuke on a ship would be the excuse for the US military to march into Baghdad and carry his head out on a bayonet. That's why nobody has tried this: it's not likely to work, and it's suicide regardless.--
spam spam spam spam spam spam
No one expects the Spammish Repetition!
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
What an informative post! Thanks for backing up everythign you said with a textual description of what this tax is called etc, and thanks for providing links to information about this tax. I am so glad you didn't just say "WOW WE HAVE THIS TAX TOO THOUGH NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT IT BUT ME AND I WON'T TELL YOU THE NAME OF IT!!!11"
--
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WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
... a new US/EU trade war over this issue?
Will this I wonder apply to console and arcade roms too? Perhaps our old freind Mame DK will be hosting roms again, legally.
When nuance becomes the only objective we lose the ability to function
now that makes sence. if music could be copied (while remaining under the terms of fair use) I would not mind paying a tax on the media that I use to copy it.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
After I got my doctorate, my dream was to set up my own (literally) desert underground cyber-community where we would route 1/4 of the Net's traffic, have the biggest Quake LAN server, and basically be a h4X0r flophouse with RJ-45 all over the place. Screw the Gobi, now I know that Denmark is the place to go to have a similar dream come true, by helping the world's peeps trade their music and *still* having the biggest Quake server.
"Anonymous Coward" is for whistleblowers, not unpopular opinions.
Didn't you know Copenhagen is the capital of the Netherlands... Funny how often people are mistaken when it's about European geography. O, by the way, I speak Dutch, so where I'm from?
aha... weer wat geleerd. tnx
No! This is the truth! Really!
You are being sarcastic right?...
-- No task is impossible, it is only a matter of time.
Oh but dont forget to mention that Copenhagen is the capital of Denmark...so theoretically Christiania is in Denmark, its just NOT denmark hehe. I only recently learned about this place, and since I live in Sweden and its only a few hours drive from me by car... God damn I gotta go there! hehehe
-- No task is impossible, it is only a matter of time.
That statement makes me sick.
Especially if you really believe that.
-- No task is impossible, it is only a matter of time.
Phew good, I thought you were really kidding me there! ;-P *phew*
My life is at peace now that I know Copenhagen is the capital of Holland...
(btw: Holland=Netherlands, good if you are a lazy typer)
-- No task is impossible, it is only a matter of time.