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KDE 2.2 Released
Well, we had covered it being tagged last week, and now, after a hardware problem with one of the main download servers, KDE is ready for download. Except that you'll probably want to go to the mirrors to actually get it. You can get more about it about it from Dre's dot.kde post, or you can read the KDE announcement - and have a good time!
yeah, I'd kill for that functionality too! I'm thinking this could be scaled up to a per-site profiling system where the useragent, javascript and other options are all defined for each site. That way it could be more easily extended to handle other often abused features that are so handy to turn off (javascript alert() calls, Flash, etc)
Konqueror already has the ability to allow or not allow Javascript on a per-site basis,a nd also has an option to disable the Javascript window.open function globally, but what I'd really like to see is the ability to disable window.open on a site-specific basis as well.
Popup windows are annoying on some (okay, most) sites, but a few require them in order to make use of the site.
-Karl
Now that I've installed it and played for a hour...
.kde files in their home before it would use KDM instead of WDM. I like the Preferences Wizard.
1) Was KDESUPPORT not upgraded? It wasn't in the Mandrake binary section or the source section. They should either include it or put a link so people who AREN'T UPGRADING can download it (if it is still necessary).
2) After install ROOT logged in fine, but my users had to kill some
3) First Crash! Something (KDE Daemon) poped up with a SEGFAULT and then disappeared. Nothing seemed to be affected.
4) It is faster and more responsive. I like the new eye candy. Automatic antialiasing (if you turn it on in the Wizard) and everything looks SMOOTH!
5) Better compatibility with some of the web sites I visit. No problems any more for my kids when playing Flash games on Disney.COM. Now if I could figure why half the sites (like Disney) find my Flash plugin and the other half (like Cartoon Network) DON'T, I'll be happy.
Over all, a nice desktop. A very good first impression.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
It used to be on http://www.mosfet.org/themeapi
But Mosfet removed that page...in some moment of rage
A diskless X terminal runs only the X server. It is irrelevant what window manager and apps you are using -- the system requirements would still be the same. (All the apps, including the window manager run on the app server). So, even 32 MB would do. The only thing you need to ensure is that the client and network are able to handle the resolution and color depth you want to use. Obviously the higher the resolution and color depth the more bandwidth and client resourses it will take, but still at 1280x1024x16 bit color a low-end pentium with 32 MB RAM and 100MB/s network would do just fine.
Increase scalability. Apart from RAM, KDE spawns a bunch of processes. On a workstation this isn't a problem, but scale it up to a several hundred users on a large box and things can get a bit ugly. (Haven't pushed it this far - extrapolating for a handful of trial users.) Do you really need so many kdeinit jobs?
Apparently you are not aware of shared memory. If two users run the same app, they will not use twice the memory. The program text is shared among all instances, only data is private. In fact using a one big box shared amoung a number of clients is a lot more efficient than lots of less-powerful workstations both in terms of memory and CPU utilization: 90% of the time a workstation is idle (a secretary types a document; a developer types code, etc.) and 10% of the time it is too slow for a given task (start word processor; compile program, etc.)
As for the kdeinit processes they each run a different thing. They are not copies of the same process. The explanation I heard is that kdeinit is used as a wrapper because Linux's ld works slow for C++ apps. (Somebody in the know, please post a more detailed expanation about it.)
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Europe:u b/ kde/
u x/ kde
p ub /kde
ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/hci/kde
ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/kde
ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/MIRRORS/ftp.kde.org/p
ftp://ftp.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de/pub/unix/kde
ftp://sunsite.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/pub/Lin
ftp://sunsite.auc.dk/pub/X/kde
ftp://ftp.dataplus.se/pub/linux/kde
ftp://ftp.dit.upm.es/linux/mirrors/ftp.kde.org/
Asia:
ftp://ftp.au.kde.org/pub/kde
ftp://casper.yz.yamagata-u.ac.jp/mirror/kde
ftp://linux.sarang.net/mirror/desktop/kde
Africa:
ftp://ftp.sun.ac.za/sites/ftp.kde.org/pub/kde
ftp://ftp.na.kde.org/pub/kde
America:
ftp://ftp.matrix.com.br/pub/kde
ftp://mirror.chpc.utah.edu/pub/kde
ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu/pub/kde
Now, could anybody tell me when the debian (potato) packages of the 2.2. will be available?
Make It Secret . Free JavaScript implementation of AES for your browser
Yes. Read the README file.
You need to install the stuff from the non-kde directory. It contains libraries that are needed by KDE (but not part of KDE).
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It's not really like that. The decision to break binary compatability was based on the desire to use new features in Qt 3, and encouraged by the fact that gcc 3.0 is going to disrupt BC anyway. Given that decision, you may as well take the opportunity to patch up API's that could use some further improvement.
Yes. That's how I do it, too. Nevertheless, what he is talking about sounds like a handy feature, and probably wouldn't be very hard to implement.
Disclaimer: I use both KDE and GNOME at the house. I have several computers, and I have my computer-illiterate girlfriend using KDE 2.1 with little problem.
There is one feature that GNOME has that KDE doesn't which, quite honestly, is the reason I use GNOME as *my* primary desktop. And it's the silliest thing, and perhaps the easiest to implement into KDE, yet I've asked a few times and even spoke to a few KDE developers at the ALS last year about it, and I've yet to see it arrive.
It's the desktop pager/guide. The desktop pager in GNOME (Desk Guide 0.4 in the version of GNOME I'm running now) is much more configurable. You can have multiple workspaces and these workspaces can have multiple windows (configured by the colums/rows option in the GNOME control center).
Thus, if I wanted to duplicate the multiple-workspace desktop a-la KDE - then I would pick 4-6 workspaces and configure these workspaces to have 1 row and 1 colum, hence having just the viewable screen real-estate for each workspace.
But, I don't particularly like that configuration. I want one big workspace with multiple rows/columns, so I can drag stuff to the side and it be on a different row/column of the same workspace. And I don't think KDE allows me to do this, hence I use GNOME.
Now, I know that is silly, but that is why I use GNOME over KDE as my primary desktop. However, I am impressed with KDE 2.x and I use Konq as my primary browser. So, if that could be squeezed into 2.2.1 or 3.0, I'd love it.
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
BeOS was developed on 66MHz PPCs with 16MB of RAM and it shows. The damn thing runs like hell on mediocre machines, and even faster on faster ones.
:-)
It was also far from what it is today, no journalling filesytem, very crude "Media Kit", very little drivers, horrible VM (still does), etc. etc..
I went back to PR2 on my BeBox, since the latest release (R5) is about 50% slower for most things. Of course driver/application support on PPC is even more pathetic than x86 (imagine that) so it really doesn't matter. The once glorious and ultra-hip BeBox is now a SSH terminal box
Yes it even needs it's own HUB since no 100Mbit network card works in it...not that the network kit would benefit from it.
-adnans
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
You can add this yourself if you want to. Look for an applications XMLGUI definition file (something like konquerorui.rc) then add the tag to the Menu tag you want to be able to tear off. You could try adding it to the global ui_standards.rc file if you want to do this to all your apps.
Rich.
Would you trade speed of compilation for standards compliance? That would be complete stupidity. GCC 3 is a godsend for C++ developers, and a firm base for future speed improvements.
Besides, standards compliance is not GCC 3's only feature. It is also one of the most portable and retargetable compilers out there (perhaps THE most), which was always the main killer feature.
"It's overkill, of course. But you can never have too much overkill." - Anonymous Slashdot Coward
For a great visual effect, check out the Liquid style engine which was designed for this version of KDE. I'm running it now, and it looks beautiful:
http://www.mosfet.org/liquid.html
-Karl
Okay, I'll buy the bait. Win2K never crashes. It has yet to crash on me, even though I brutalize it with crappy programs (for example, InteractiveC). Of course, this is just my personal experience, so it doesn't matter much. On the other hand your little point is also personal experience, and similarly doesn't matter much. What counts is the fact that the majority consensus on the net is that Win2K is very stable (read through some non-Slashdot newsgroups). Maybe not as stable as Linux, but quite usably so. If it is unstable for you, than by all means use something better. However, don't pretend that just because it doesn't work for you that it doesn't work for everyone else.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
There is activity going on on their mailing list. E.g. right now they're coining up a standard for storing image thumbnails so Nautilus, Konqueror and the GIMP will be able to share them.
Monkey sense
If I recall correctly - PatriotSoft will issue Solaris binaries RSN
Hetz (Heunique)
ooooooh! What does this button do? - DeeDee, Dexters Lab.
I agree. A lot of KDE upgrades I avoid simply because I'm afraid of the incompatibilities it can cause with my current distro (in this case, RedHat 7.1). I normally wait for a Linux company to place the new interface into their distro, then download that instead.
KDE 2.2(Final) Debs are available in the unstable tree. If you normally run the stable tree, you may want to switch over to unstable, install just the needed kde packages, then switch back. deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
Mmmm, -funroll-loops
KDE 2.2 is part of Red Hat Linux 7.2.
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yeah, the would be Gnome you where thinking of (as compiled under the FINK project). and of course you need to run it under XFree, it doesn't run directly under Quartz/Aqua. but FINK has been moving along pretty well, so KDA may not be that far away...
sean
Why not use both? Install both of them, install a program like selectwm, and choose which wm to use. This way, if you get tired of using one, you can easily switch to another. No big deal.
-- "Perceptions create reality. By changing your perceptions you change your reality."
What we at our company are almost YELLING about at some places ... we're all used to OpenSTEP and some of us are still using it just because of the Terminal.app. When you have some process or script that outputs tons of stuff, you just press Ctrl+F, you get a find panel, you enter your search keyword and it moves the terminal buffer to the right place and highlights what you've searched for. I think OS X has something simmiliar. :) Such feature greatly simplifies the daily job of the sysadmin.
If such functionallity would be added to KDE, there'll be no reasons for us to keep OpenStep anymore, expect for sentimentallity.
I am pleased to announce that since my porn came in 78% clearer now that I'm using KDE 2.2 (automatic antialiasing all da way!), I got off in 2 seconds instead of 3. Thank you. You've made my day the best ever, and also made my keyboard a gooey mess.
Windows 2000 might not be usably fast on a 386/33, but neither is KDE (1.x even) for that matter... And maybe you and I have a different definition of "usable" because I consider something jerky to be unusable. Maybe I'm spoiled, but if I notice it, its going too slowly. Win2K goes fast enough that I don't notice it (and it is significantly faster than 9x, if you don't know why read a good OS book) but KDE2 doesn't. Simple as that.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Would you trade speed of compilation for standards compliance?
>>>>>>>>>
Yes. Because I tend to stick very closely to "safe" code, which is always a good practice, no matter how standards complient your compiler. There is, of course, a balance, but GCC's balance point is in the wrong place.
That would be complete stupidity. GCC 3 is a godsend for C++ developers, and a firm base for future speed improvements.
>>>>>>>>>>
Well, let's see what shapes up. Of course, the competition isn't standing still either. IntelC++, for example, is very fast, makes great code, and is quite standard complient (not to the point of GCC, but very close). If only it didn't cost so damn much...
Besides, standards compliance is not GCC 3's only feature. It is also one of the most portable and retargetable compilers out there (perhaps THE most), which was always the main killer feature.
>>>>>>>>>
90% of the world runs x86, deal with it. Something useful to a very limited portion of the population cannot be billed as a "killer" feature. Maybe if GCC was billed as an embedded compiler, that would be true, but as a compiler for Linux/x86, that feature carries little weight.
I have no doubt that GCC will improve. Whether it will every be better than its competitors, however, is totally up in the air. As it stands, 3.0 is not much better than 2.95.3 in any respect other than standards complience. If 3.1+ changes this, then great. Otherwise, not so great.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Apparently, GCC 3.0 is quite a dissapointment for most people. It really doesn't compile faster, it really doesn't produce faster code. It is *very* standard complient, but standards complience cannot be a compiler's only feature. Luckily, Intel C++ is being ported to Linux. Hopefully Intel does something smart and releases 'icl' in a form that's usable to the community. Since many users compile their software themselves, god knows a $400 compiler won't fly very well in the Linux market.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Hmmm, I don't know about porting to qt-3.x, but I definitely remember the hassles of porting KDE from qt-1.4x to qt-2.x. Many major KDE applications were simply unavailable for KDE-2.0 for a very long time.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think an API should be frozen in stone. But a lot of attention needs to be made to the existing source and binaries that were made for last months API.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
New features I like:
Pulsating icon when program is loading
Interface cleanup - Finally looks good on hi-res LCD
Bug fixes - Browser is getting more usable day by day
Kdevelop - intriguing program. Hope it continues to mature at it's current pace. Very familiar coming from MS Vis Studio.
Koffice - Hope to see you at 1.1 soon! looking great
Schemes, Colors, Sounds and everything are much snappier
Control panel cleanups!
Setup wizards (makes it easy for windows converts
And lots of GUI toys & options - can change icon & font rendering, window popup speed and much more. eye candy for sure
Again, compile times suck. It takes a few hours to compile kde_base alone on a 1ghz P3 with a gig of memory.
Hopefully Gcc 3.01 /3.1, QT 3.0 and KDE 3.0 will be the killer desktop. 2.2 is a VAST improvement, but only that.. an improvement on existing interfaces and bugfixes.
I do like KDE's object model of sorts, widgets and kparts. Very will thought out implementations, i just hope they learn to quit breaking binary compatibility with each major release :)
Keep up the good work KDE team!
It's a major upgrade - you probably want to upgrade (or, get ready to upgrade when 2.2.1 inevitably comes out in a couple of weeks).
The release notes are worth reading over.
...j
(jackass has been cancelled. eep!)
Oops, I meant the new kde 2.2 and not 2.1 has been fixed. Sorry about that.
http://saveie6.com/
Well worth the upgrade. It's slicker and feels faster than before, and the "kpersonalizer" is a nice quick way to tune your environment. Konquerer is nice, but still a bit clunky, so Moz wins for me here. KMail simply goes from strength to strength.
If you've not done it yet, go for it. You won't be disappointed, you'll certainly be impressed at the hard work that has clearly gone into this environment. Well done the KDE team!
ooooooh! What does this button do? - DeeDee, Dexters Lab.
Please provide a backtrace - I definitely can't reproduce this.
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A diskless X terminal runs only the X server.
;-)
In the traditional model, yes; this is what our prototype is doing. However, given that the that the *minimum* system readily available these days is a Duron 850MHz with 128MB stick of SDRAM, it seems rather wasteful not to put this to good use. NCD provides Netscape and ICA on some of their xterms, and we've tried this successful on the Linux-based "xterm" too. Moving the window manager to the terminal is the logical next step, but admitted more of a giant leap...
Ignoring the technical issues of running the window manager locally, the more stuff added to the boot image, the longer the boxes take to boot. While this shouldn't be an issue, users who have been exposed to Windows will reboot the terminals with Ctrl-Alt-Del at the merest hint of a problem...
More likely, we'll harvest the spare CPU cycles after hours - imagine a Beowulf cluster of Duron-based xterms...
Apparently you are not aware of shared memory.
Actually I am aware of shared memory, which is why I built everything with shared libraries to minimize the memory usage. There were some memory savings using shared libraries, but the actual memory usage of the limited trial indicated that we would have trouble with a full user load.
Apt-getting kde, noticed kde removes gdm. I thought --- well, I'll install kde 2.2 and then reinstall gdm. After installing kde, apparently an install of gdm is not possible without removing kdm and kde.
While I enjoy using gnome more than kde, I like to occassionally use kde by selecting kde in gdm. However, with kde 2.2, this no longer seems possible. Does someone have any suggestions to allow gdm with kde 2.2?
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
Less bloat. More optimizations. You shouldn't neet lots of resources to move windows around and copy and paste. 1.x release was actually bearable on a 64 or 128 MB machine, can't say the same about the new release. I know this is asking for impossible, but maybe people who moderated my previous post a troll can prove me wrong, and have a large C++ project have a memory foot print/resource usage that these kinds of binaries could have (C instead).
SO people who want to either developer QT or KDE applications might want to download QT 3 snapshot and play with it.
Sorry, I don't play that game. That's what they do in the closed source world. Always chasing after the latest software. Don't get me wrong, I will be using KDE 3.0. But I won't be doing any KDE development. I tired of chasing after Qt.
How many X11 programs written ten years ago compile perfectly fine today? How many Motif programs written ten years ago compile perfectly fine today? Will today's Qt-2.3.1 program compile with next year's Qt? Hah!
I like Qt. It's well organized and sensible. But this is going to be release 3.0. Not 0.3.0. You would think Trolltech would have the API hammered out by now. Give us a break and freeze the damn interface and let us catch up!
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
A good idea in theory - but in practice, this can be quite hard. For example, for panel applets, both desktops drag along large libraries - and while it is possible to display GTK widgets in Qt applications, you don't want the memory requirements that introduces.
/etc/X11/applnk menu on Red Hat Linux), so it's not quite as bad as you make it sound.
For menus etc., we are using the desktop file standard (with the exception that gnome hasn't converted its translations to UTF8 yet) - with a sane setup, you can get an application into both menus at the same time (e.g. the
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This looks to be a pretty solid release.
Perhaps linux on the desktop isn't dead yet, dispite what Microsoft and others keep insisting...?
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
I think you're confusing cause and effect.
There seems to be some confusion here. The fonts are the same regardless of the anti-aliasing setting, the only difference is in the way the font is rendered.
Rich.
You have a good point .. I installed a dual-boot Mandrake/RedHat recently (I like RH but have been trying out Mandrake), and I tried to share my home directory between them. Had the same problem, the info in the two .kde directories were not compatible (Mandrake paths rather prolificly seem to have "mdk" everywhere in filenames) .. many icons were screwed up etc.
.kde-redhat, .kde-mdk etc).
.. I have dozens of ".*" config files in my home directory. Perhaps there should be some "profile" mechanism? e.g. have a single subfolder for each "profile", e.g. ".profile-redhat", ".profile-mdk" .. then all the ".*" files could be dumped into the specific profile directories.
It should really be possible to share this home directory not just between Mandrake/RH but older versions and other different versions too. I mean, how difficult could it be to just make the config directories configurable? (e.g.
The problem is this applies to many programs
I ended up doing some really hacky stuff with a number of symbolic links into a "shared" spare partition. OK, I could never do that with Windows at all, but its still far from ideal.
Yes, bloat, but if you do not use the STL, exceptions, and RTTI, c++ binaries are about the size of c binaries.
And yes, most of kde does not use RTTI, STL, and exceptions (Qt uses RTTI afaik, but it's not as big of a bloat maker as exceptions are).
Also, about, execution speed, c++ is only barely slower than c. HOWEVER, g++ compiled c++ programs with lots of shared libs take forever to be loaded. This seems to be bugs in g++ that the team is fixing. The same prelinking time does not occur in other compilers (visual c++ comes to mind).
There are several approaches that the kde project has compensated for this. First was kdeinit. Kdeinit linked the majority of kde and qt shared libs and then loaded the app, resulting in less memory usage. Now, with 2.2, there is a objprelink. This reduces time of loading of many kde apps from 30% to 50%.
In the future, g++ will probably be fixed. Meanwhile, there will be other prelinking solutions (some have already been announced)
one thing that drives me nuts about linux is that there are all these different desktops with all these competing standards. there's no one API for instance to add an icon to the desktop or a program group, because each one of these systems does everything totally differently.
i know it sounds petty, but until something is done to make all of these things less linux-y and more transparent, linux will forever be a server closet geek toy.
sorry.
Its not even that. MS goes to a lot of trouble optimizing the "feel" of the OS. They make sure that things load quickly, even if they're not fully functional when first loaded. They make sure that widgets flicker as little as possible when being resized. They grok the scheduler to make sure that GUI apps get preferential scheduling. These things just make the environment "feel" faster. While KDE2 is probably better technology than Win2K's GUI, it seems that the KDE devels would rather add features than go to the trouble of optimizing things like this. There is no arguement that the Linux core OS is significantly faster and more stable than Win2K. However, KDE2 (and, to be fair, most other non-minimalistic Linux GUIs) slows the cheetah down to the point where it loses the race to the hippo.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
People who would like to contribute to the KDE development are most welcome to join - you don't have to be a C++ programmer in order to contribute - Graphics artists, GUI guru's, HTML experts and others are more then welcome to join the big KDE famility of developers..
And so are total newbies who don't know anything about computers yet - feedback from those people can be vital. Most of us simply don't notice if something is not intuitive because it's what we're used to.
If you think you can't do anything that would be useful, please check out usability.kde.org and convince yourself of the opposite. We need the feedback...
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On the other side of the world - in Europe, the picture is different. KDE is very popular in Europe (most KDE developers are from Europe and outside USA) and Redhat DOES help a bit. Bero (who is one of their employees) does package the KDE for Redhat for releases. Redhat did load some hardware for the KDE team in LinuxTag - so it's not exactly black & white scenario..
Hetz (Heunique)
if you have your KDE clock set to blink and show seconds etc, that kind of bandwidth will chew up your LAN in no time.
and as soon as you start web browsing you can kiss your LAN good bye if you have lots of clients on the same LAN.
Such a major project with an emphasis on usability and user friendliness and the package has no installer. Sure different distros can wrap it up in whatever package manager they use, but this is still a pain. Why can't they have something like mozilla's binary installer so end users (who may not know their distro) can download it and just go.
-josh
Not to mention this /. thread. Unfortunately from the open-source perspective, they're using these Linux terminals primarily to run commercial software packages: WordPerfect, Excel, PowerPoint, and Access.
Tim
I've got similar problems. I've got a RH7.0 box, and when I try to install KDE, it starts complaining about needing libXft, and libXrender. Of course, there is no mention of either in the README (such as what version of XF86 is required), nor is there a version of X in the non-kde directory. This is also ignoring the collisions on libcrypto, libssl, python, liblber, libldap, librpm and librpmio. Just a little frustrating.
Luckily, I haven't done a --nodeps like the README suggests.
So, anyone know what the magic versions are?
I thin[k] it's also a good time for you - the reader/user to post what do you want to be changed in KDE? what do u hate about KDE? what do you like?
Twist some arms and get C++ apps to load faster. Konqueror takes 18 seconds or more, and I'm pretty sure most of it is accounted for by resolving function addresses for every object with virtual functions. It's not KDE's fault, but they may be able to either fix it or get someone else to.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
There are some here.
Hi people,
Just few words about this release (and future road-map)..
This is the final major version of KDE 2.2 - expect KDE 2.2.1 next month with all the last-minute bug fixes (without any new features), and translations update..
The next major version is going to be KDE 3.0 that will be out at around January 2002 featuring QT 3.0.x (with all the QT 3 features), and some changes in the backend, among other things. Most of KDE will be ported from 2.2 to 3.0. SO people who want to either developer QT or KDE applications might want to download QT 3 snapshot and play with it. It's got some bugs - but it's pretty stable.
People who would like to contribute to the KDE development are most welcome to join - you don't have to be a C++ programmer in order to contribute - Graphics artists, GUI guru's, HTML experts and others are more then welcome to join the big KDE famility of developers..
I thin it's also a good time for you - the reader/user to post what do you want to be changed in KDE? what do u hate about KDE? what do you like? What do you think should be improved? What do you think should be removed? most of the KDE developers read slashdot - so maybe your request will be fullfilled - you never know...
As for other platforms - expect KDE 2.2 to be available within days for Solaris (X86 & Sparc), HP/UX, SGI's Irix, IBM AIX, and others..
Enjoy the release people - lots of work has been done on this one - and you get as a bonus %30-%50 speed increase..
Hetz (Heunique)
That would be silly. I want all developpers to have quad SMP machines with a Gig of RAM and 100 gigs disk. That way they can develop and compile and debug FASTER.
>>>>>>>>
BeOS was developed on 66MHz PPCs with 16MB of RAM and it shows. The damn thing runs like hell on mediocre machines, and even faster on faster ones.
It would be nice if they all had a small machine like you described on their network so that they could INSTALL their rapidly developped applications for TESTING. That might lead to some optimizations being done that don't happen now.
>>>>>>>>
Its not just optimizations. Its the whole mindset that features are more important than basic usability.
OTOH maybe it would be better if the KDE project started suggesting 400mhz and 256RAM as a minimum for a useable "desktop workstation", and saved time by *not* optimizing the code for old machines. It's an engineering question worthy of debate.
>>>>>>>>
That's ridiculous! And Linux people claim that Win2K is bloated! An OS (and by extension, a GUI environment) is just a helper. A lowly piece of code that has no other reason for existance than the fact that it is sometimes useful to the application. Nobody wants to run KDE-2, they want to run their apps. The OS code should just get the hell out of the way and leave all the processor they can do the application. I don't mind my 3D renderer sucking up resources like anything. Hell, I'm getting a dual Athlon soon just so I can feed it more. But moving windows around on my desktop is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Thus, it deserves very little of my processor time, whether my machine is a dual 1.2GHz monster, or a wimpy 300Mhz weakling.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
From the changelog:
* KHTML: extended compatibility with IE's parsing and tokenisation fallbacks for really malformed HTML.
This really disappoints me. A web browser needs to follow the spec and do exactly what the web author says, not necessarily what the web author thought he/she said. One reason for this is interoperability: web authors never know which browser people will be using to view their site. For instance, in a few years, many people could be web browsing from their cell phones using "Nokia Integrated Browser" or something. So, web authors must get the idea that the only long term solution is to write valid code -- and having web browsers that "guess" at what the web author "intended" to write in their code doesn't reinforce that.
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
- ... because of C++'s stricter type checking, things like comparing two differently named but otherwise identical structs (which is fine in C) becomes illegal in C++, as C++ treats them as two distinct types.
- ... the following is valid C:
- ... typedefs work differently in C++ than in C because of the way structs, classes and unions work -- they're namespaces in C++, and don't need to be prefixed with struct or union when you're using them as in C. (Obviously, C has no classes.) So, in C, you could have something like
/* whatever */ };
There are other differences, too. Most of them aren't common, but the above are a few I can remember off the top of my head.enum myEnum {ONE, TWO, THREE};
myEnum e = 2;
This is invalid in C++, because of C++'s type checking. Casting would correct the problem.
struct myStruct {
typedef char myStruct;
because in order to create an instance of myStruct, you must prefix it with struct, which distinguishes it from the "char" myStruct. You can't do this in C++, because you don't need to prefix myStruct with struct to use it.
J
At least on my KDE the thing is called
KDEHOME without space.
Moritz
My suggestion: work closer with GNOME (and vice versa. Its entirely possib;le to have 2 seperate projects without the current incompatibility and lack of standards between the two.
Users don't pick their apps based on toolkit. They pick them based on quality. For almost all users, that's going to be a mix of KDE and GNOME apps.
Create a standard for:
* Component models. Really. We know its hard to agree on, but it must be done.
* File types - > application mapping database (some people call these MIME types).
* Launcher menus. Application developers and end users are tired of having to add new apps Mozilla to two different sets of menus. Nobody says `I want a QT app...oh, and by the way, can it be a web browser'?. They say `I want a web browser'. They don't care about toolkits and neither should the desktop menus.
* Panel applets.
* Icons. GNOME uses 48 x 48. KDE uses various sizes (which is probably a better way to do it - 48 x 28 icons do notRe:some notes not look pretty). Have a kind word to the GNOME folk and suggest they use the same approach as KDE.
* Package deployment. I'd love to download KDE via Ximian's Red Carpet, or a KDE interface for the same.
Hey..what about some screen shots, but first I must read the changelog ummmm.
is done by the distributors. Debian for example splits the kdenetwork in the different applications.(AFAIK)
There is even a script in the kdesdk to package single apps. Aa long as the distributors don't do it, there is nothing KDE can do about it.
Moritz
> here's much more cruft in C++ than there's in C.
> C++ lets the programmer go lazy on many things
> at the expense of bloat and execution speed.
Such as?
> Even "Hello world" examples are much larger in
> size than C equivalents.
The following *C++* program compiles to a 3368 byte dynamic binary on my Linux box:
#include
int main() { printf("Hello, world!\n"): }
Oh whats this? You say thats not a C++ program but a C program? Hate to break it to you, but (with a few exceptions) any valid ANSI C program is also a valid ANSI C++ program.
- Arcadio
You haven't tried KDE for a long time - did you?
This option is available long time ago - enabled as default for example in the K menu..
Hetz (Heunique)
Thanks! Thats useful to know.
No.
I want one huge workspace that can scroll. Not 4 individual workspaces - which is what KDE has.
I want to be able to drag an app to the corner of my screen and be able to go to the adjacent view and see the app.
Follow the steps listed in my post under gnome using the control panel, and you'll see what I mean. KDE doesn't have the colums/rows option for each workspace.
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
FreeBSD binary packages are already on the KDE FTP, so you should get those. The port will probably take a couple of weeks, if the past is any indication.
2.2 works great on FreeBSD, the only problem I've found so far is that SSL is completely shot. So you'll have to do without https for a while in Konqueror. Too bad.
Don't take this as a flame, but I don't think it's easy to slim down a project like this. It's OO, it's C++, what can be expected? C++ is a higher level language, resulting in slow compilation times and bloat. The gain is shorter developement cycle at the expense of bloat. Same goes for Mozilla.
It's down for a hardware upgrade IIRC.
You can make KDE look pretty awesome (IMHO) using the styles etc. provided in the release though.
Rich.
And no, not once was it faulty hardware to blame.
p.s. next time you troll, you need to be more subtle.
There was a bug that has now been fixed with g++/kde-libs. Basically the linker did not index and point to the pre-compilied objects properly. What happened was the linker had to reswap and load all the compilied objects in the proper sequence(i think) and that took some time. Its minimal on my PIII700 :-).
The new kde2.1 and the new gnu-bintools and glibc (not the recent gcc 3.0 compiler) fix the error. According to the press release you can expect %30-%50 improvment on load times because the excess object swaping and loading has been taken care of.
http://saveie6.com/
Actually, corporate machines are unilaterally badly configured. MS Windows is very needy. For example, if you hose something, you can't just reinstall over the old installation, but you have to wipe the disk clean. You have to feed it the highest quality drivers and make sure not to run programs that can bother it (like AIM). If you follow the rules (not so hard in reality), clean you recyle bin regularly, and keep up on those updates, you too can be a happy Win2K user.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Well - this point was very crucial in the decision to move to developing KDE 3.0
Most of KDE will stay the same, and QT is around 90% source compatible (not binary compatible)..
So basically - moving an application from KDE 2 to KDE 3 shouldn't take more then a few tweaks.
Lars from TrollTech has been playing for fun in ported the entire KDE libraries from QT 2.X to 3.0 beta in a few hours - so if few hours takes to move something this big - then it shouldn't take for an avrage programmer more then an hour or so..
You should also remember - by the time that KDE 3.0 will be out - most of the distributions will move from GCC 2.9X to 3.0.X or 3.1 (if everything goes according to the GCC team) - so the developers will have to do some work - regardless of KDE or Gnome applications...
Hetz (Heunique)