Mandrake 8.1 Beta1 (Raklet) Released

keegnotrub writes: "Mandrake just dumped 8.1 Beta on their servers. Along with updated software (KDE 2.2, kernel 2.4.8, etc) they have reworked their control center to include many new features." Word to the wise: there are some reactions to this beta -- as well as a list of known bugs and fixes -- at mandrakeforum.com. What I'd like to know is if a Wacom Intuos USB tablet will work out-of-the-box on 8.1, since I just bought a refurbed one ;)

Comments

fp

[Anonymous Coward]

Natalie Portman and hot grits down pants forever!

Re:fp

[Anonymous Pancake]

nice first post

mandrake? what are you some sort of nancy boy?

[cmdrsed]

cool

Fuck you all

[ubertroll]

Well,

oooooo oo oo ooooo oo oo oo oo ooooo oo oo oo
oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo
oooo oo oo oo oooo oooooo oo oo oo oo oo
oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo oo
oo ooooo ooooo oo oo oo ooooo ooooo oo

Re:Fuck you all

[Anonymous Coward]

To be more precise, fuck the jews and niggers.

Re:Fuck you all

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think it's a good idea to fuck niggers. Nigger pussy should be avoided for the obvious reasons, and that it's stretched out due to the enormous size of nigger dick (I guess God flet sorry for making them like they are and had to make up for it somehow). Jew pussy is tight (due to the small size of Jew dick), and I admit some Jew women under the age of 28 do look good, but please avoid fucking them if you can; if they get pregnant, it will just increase the Jew population.

Re:Fuck you all

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if you don't fuck them, a Jew probably will. At least if you do it, you're diluting the Jewishness of the kids...

For god's sake, think of the kids!

Re:Fuck you all

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah.. Just sprinkle a bunch of fake credit-cards on the ground. The watch the Jew-Bitches come running; as soon as they bend over to pick them up POW! Poke 'em in the ass with the love sausage.

4th!

[Anonymous Coward]

Forth PR0stering SKILLZ!

Big problem: DevFS

[bconway]

Why are they using devfs? I'm not sure who was smoking crack on that one, but it's junk. It's never really worked, and it doesn't work with half of the drivers currently out there, so forget about it if you want to use things like ReiserFS or nVidia cards. Furthermore, you can't decide to not use it in the install, and switching back to dev afterwards is a major PITA.

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[Cyph]

I'm running a devfs-enabled kernel, with ReiserFS compiled in, and most of my partitions running on ReiserFS. Also, I am running an nVidia GeForce2 card. Tell me, what is the problem with devfs again? :P

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[Anonymous Coward]

Cannot mount root fs is usually a problem in my book. So is the nvidia drivers not working with the latest kernel's devfs.

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[Liquid-Gecka]

Remember, with devfs /dev/hdxx don't exist until the defsd program is run. Setting up linux to boot from /dev/hda1 will cause it to fail because /dev/hda1 doesn't exist. Also, you can download and run MAKEDEV without any problems to convert to non devfsd. I have yet to see a single device that doesn't work (Not that they are not out there mind you..) ReiserFS has no problems what so ever with devfs as long as you select the right partition (not /dev/hdxx!) its usually /dev/discs/disc0/part0 or something like that (I am at work so I can not verify). the /dev/hda1 link is acually created by the devfsd. =) Read the devfs how-to before starting and you usually have no problems whatsoever.

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[Anonymous Coward]

hmmm

interesting

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that's what I got with a Beta 1 install using ReiserFS, I wasn't trying to convert anything. Ext2 worked fine, but I don't use ext2.

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[Phork]

i use devfs, it works great, im using it with reiserfs root. In my opinoin, it is a lot easier to setup a machine with devfs than without. Wondering if linux sees your serial port, look in /dev/tts, did it see that new harddrive, /dev/discs. I have yet to encounter a single non-devfs compatable driver. The only problem i have ever had with devfs is sound apps not working correctly, and all that took was a few symlinks, which would have been made automatically if i used devfsd, but i dont, i think it works fine without it. And i dont think that there is any hassel in switching back, unless you dont know much about linux. But why would you want to switch back? its a non-issue.

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[mdw2]

not sure why you think those won't work

I'm using reiserfs

/dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part1
reiserfs 4096380 2937028 1159352 72% /

and nvidia hardware

[mdw@umi: mdw]$ lspci | grep nVidia
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV11 (rev a1)

no problems with devfs here.

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[Nailer]

It's never really worked, and it doesn't work with half of the drivers currently out there

Then that's the fault of the drivers. What is broken is not being able to consistently address hot pluggable hardware, and almost every other Unix has a DevFS-like system (at least Solaris, OSX, and FreebSD IIRC) they seem to have a fairly proven track record or working in a real world environment.

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[BlowCat]

I have yet to see a single device that doesn't work

Three cases of "device that doesn't work":

1. It works, but the entry in /dev is not created automatically. Example - USB scanner (fixed in -ac).
2. The entry is created, but doesn't work. Example: MIDI on VIA boards.
3. The entry is created, is works but then oopses/panics/crashes. Example: IrDA on VIA boards.

4. But I agree that the initial post was lame and uninformed.

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[Anonymous Coward]

My biggest problem with Mandrake is that it's well nigh impossible to do anything with it. I tried to upgrade XFree86 the other day... It said I needed the XFree86-4.0.3-7mdk.i386.rpm to be installed. That was the version of XFree86 that was installed with my system.

I've also had numerous problems configuring boot options and .profiles because Mandrake has begun to use xinetd and links from .bash_profile to god only knows where else. I know that this may be pure laziness on my part, but when I go to change something around, I really don't want to have to relearn just for one box in my collection. I work on HP-UX, Solaris, and *BSD. It makes rethinking all my Mandrake issues seem like less and less of a priority.

Re:Big problem: DevFS

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what I love most about Linux: it's not Linux's fault they you're STUPID.

windows xp

[ToWnSaVeR2]

ARGH!!!...if you check out the Mandrake site they have a link of their homepage showing how 8.1 is alot like windows XP. Is it a good thing that a Microsoft OS and a Linux OS have so much in common?

Re:windows xp

[Johnny Starrock]

Maybe that's not directed at Linux users, but instead at corperate types with purchasing power...

Re:windows xp

[term0r]

It probably is a good thing to point out the similarities between Windows and Mandrake, as the market that Mandrake seems to aim at is the people that are new to linux and are looking for an easy migration to linux. Having a nice and friendly desktop, that is similar to Windows will make that migration a lot easier.

Re:windows xp

[WolfWithoutAClause]

Superficially, having so much in common is probably a good thing.

The current useability ideal, is roughly 'do what the users expect'. Right now the users expect to shut down the system using the start button. So what do we have to give them?

Re:windows xp

[Alien54]

I liked the Mandrake 8.0 distro and install setup, although there were a few things that needed to be worked on.

I don't thing that the comparison to XP is going to win many friends in the unix/linux community. Although I can see it as a Marketing Ploy for truly new users.

I think that it would be better to stay true to the origin of the system. Maybe even say that it is "better"

Tough call

- - -
Radio Free Nation
is a news site based on Slash Code
"If You have a Story, We have a Soap Box"
- - -

Re:windows xp

[cha0sadddddddd]

um....i personaly would rather if lots of people went out and bought (or downloaded) mandrake instead of xp.I know alot of poeple that cant install win98, how the hell you expect them to install debian? or slackware? or any of the bsds?
Recently when i get requests to reinstall windows on a friend or friend of a friend computer i make letting me install mandrake and dual booting a requirementout of ~10 installs like that 1 of those people got ahold of me and told me he installed suse and likes it better...this coming from a person that asked for my help installing win 98 for gods sake. i dont use mandrake, but it was the first disto i used and i think its the "gateway drug" of unix

Re:windows xp

[reverius]

eh, sonny?

back in the day, Slackware 4.0 was a gateway drug.

We all saw the brand-spankin' new shiny color install. We all used the spankin'-convenient "menu system".

Yet somehow, it still trashed every "Gateway 2000" machine that we put it on...

that's why it's called a gateway drug now.

Of course them young whippersnappers like Mandrake think they can pull in new users with them shiny Gooeys and what they've them got now...

[trails off mumbling to self...]

Re:windows xp

[tristan f.]

Windows has 95% of the desktop market. Linux... does not. If someone wished to see Linux gain marketshare (and granted, this is probably the eventual goal of very few) then maybe similarities to an OS that's actually popular would help.

check it out. there are no more f i rst posts.

[Anonymous Coward]

yours is colorfully labeled: 2173802

i really like this part of the new slashdot.

Re:check it out. there are no more f i rst posts.

[ubertroll]

Can't you count for yourself? Need Slashdot's "#1" label to find out which post is first?

Re:check it out. there are no more f i rst posts.

[Anonymous Coward]

sorted newest first and flat i do.

Re:check it out. there are no more f i rst posts.

[ubertroll]

Oh. So it's quite important everyone labels their First Posts correctly now, isn't it?

yeaaaa

[litheum]

1273498134 post!!!

Windows Envy

[ubertroll]

Oh, all the Linux zealots really want to use Windows, but they can't without losing their face. So they do want a Linux that looks like Windows.

mandrake is a good transition dist.

[gimpboy]

while you might not like it mandrake is really good for those unfortunate souls who want to move from windows over to linux. dont worry though. there are always other alternatives for those of us who dont particularly like the microsoft look.

see most people coming from windows are not ready for 'linux from scratch'. not everyone can be as elite as you and i :). the point: there are alot of alternatives. if you dont like this one, dont use it.

Keeps getting better...

[Grim Grepper]

Some people may not like Mandrake, for a variety of reasons, but I'm liking it more and more with every release. Many people may not like this, but I like having frequent beta releases to play around with.

Best of all, Mandrake truly does have a great setup procedure. For example, name one other distro in which you can easily setup ReiserFS, JFS, ext3, and ext2 filesystems during the installation. And afterwards, you have such tools as the Software Update utility, which is a decent way to keep up with security updates. And don't forget the custom user, printer, and other management utilities.

I know many people call Mandrake a newbie distro, but who said that having an easy to use distro is a bad thing? Plus, even though it's "easy to use", I can still setup and configure it however I want. Mandrake seems to be getting better and better, and I wouldn't be suprised to see it take over as the Desktop distro for both newbies and experts alike.

Re:Keeps getting better...

[gengee]

I second that. Mandrake pushes the bar with every new release. Things like LDAP Authentication support right in the install, journaling filesystems as you mentioned, devfs (Something we all /need/ to start using) etc. It certainly does have a 'newbieish' feel to it, but it is also quite capable as a server.

Mandrake has it's fair share of problems. Poor (IMO) packages, testing cycles that are far too short, etc. But they certainly aren't afraid of adding new features.

I'm not certain I like the 'Configure everthing in the instal' approach they take, but I am sure it's helpful for all new Linux users.

Re:Keeps getting better...

[Phork]

FIrst, i havent seen a distro in several years that you cannot setup an ext2 partition in the installer.

debian has all the faetures you mentioned(but they are targted to more advanced users).

a few days ago installed debian on my laptop with devfs and reiserfs root, and an ext2 /home(so i can share it with freebsd). now all admit it was not all point and click, I didnt use the standard debian install disks, i used the reiserfs install discs. And then i put a custom kernel on the disk, and a newer version of mkreiserfs on a seperate floppy, but if i had chosen, i could have worked off the regular reiserfs install floppys.

Debian has a software update utility, being aslashdot reader, im sure you have heard of it, apt-get. And debian does have custom managment utilitys, there called bash and emacs.

if i wanted gui configuration utilitys, and other things to hide the details from me, i would proably use mandrake, but i like editing config files, i like knowing exactly what is happening on my system. Thats why i use debian.

Re:Keeps getting better...

[MKalus]

SuSE does that just fine.

I deployed this week SuSE 7.2 on several machines all running ReiserFS happily (and that's a good thing as one of the new guys decided that to "move" a box he just "unplugs" it while it was still humming away.

Nevertheless: SuSE is pretty nice sind 6.4 and since 7.0 the ReiserFS is standard and works just like a charm.

Michael

Re:Keeps getting better...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucking troll. Get a life, can't you keep it in your pants?

Re:Keeps getting better...

[Listen Up]

I love Linux. I have been using it since the RedHat Mother's Day release...Way back in the day. But, everytime I read something like:

>>>I'm not certain I like the 'Configure everthing in the instal' approach they take, but I am sure it's helpful for all new Linux users.

I don't understand the back asswards mentality that all of the people have here. Just because you have the ability to configure just about everything in the install, why is this for "new" users only? I, along with the rest of the world, prefers to install something and get started using it RIGHT AWAY. The reason Linux isn't as popular as people like to lie to themselves about is because Linux/Unix is not easy to setup and use to someone who has little time to fuck around with it. Installing, setting up, logging in, and running productive software is exactly what serious computer users (home and corporate) are specifically wanting and aiming to achieve. Mandrake does this and that is why Mandrake is so damned popular. One of my friends spent an eternity trying to setup his network card the other week. Then when that got setup he spend tooooo many hours fucking with this file and that file to setup the rest of the networking and X-Windows and eventually blah, blah, blah...He finally contacted me about his problems and I told him to download Mandrake 8.0, burn it, and install it. He did exactly that and Mandrake found all of his hardware and he was able to set it up all in the install (including networking). He rebooted and was productive in under 30 minutes.
I am not a newbie by any means and I find Mandrake an absolute pleasure to use. It is not a newbie distro. It is a smart distro aimed at people who want to use their computers...and people who would prefer to not have to fuck with anything to set it up and get any work done. People like me at my friend are the 90% of the market Linux currently is failing to please...Thank You Mandrake for seeing past all of this "must be a bitch to setup and use to be powerful, omnipotent, and /. geek worthy" crap and giving the world a decent distro that is both easy to setup and easy to use.

Re:Keeps getting better...

[Anonymous Coward]

For example, name one other distro in which you can easily setup ReiserFS, JFS, ext3, and ext2 filesystems during the installation. And afterwards, you have such tools as the Software Update utility, which is a decent way to keep up with security updates. And don't forget the custom user, printer, and other management utilities.

SuSE?

Re:Keeps getting better...

[gengee]

I think you misunderstood my point:) I wasn't flat out saying they shouldn't configure everything in the install. I was just saying I'm not sure it's the best approach. Personally, I prefer the simpler approach simply because it's faster. I may not /want/ to install X-windows on a router. With Mandrake, however, I don't have a choice. I may not /want/ to configure a printer on a nameserver, but again I have to w/ Mandrake.

The list goes on.

We use Mandrake on all of our desktops at work. It's worked well there. At home, however, I prefer Debian. I don't find that I'm constantly fucking with it. In fact, I find I have fewer problems with Debian than I do with Mandrake.

Debian is by no means a bitch to install. It has an extremely simple menu-based install that I can go through in about 5 minutes. It takes half an hour to do a Mandrake install though.

To each his own though. Mandrake has it's place. As do all the other distributions (Except Caldera. They're evil.)

Re:Keeps getting better...

[7-Vodka]

Absolute bullshit!

have you even done a mdk install? you don't have to go through any of that if you don't want to.

or maybe you just couldn't figure out how to install mkd?

Re:Keeps getting better...

[Enahs]

Okay. Let's get one thing straight.

If you can't figure out how to keep from installing X when you're installing Mandrake, you have no business running Debian.

Seriously.

Re:Keeps getting better...

[Listen Up]

I don't mean to be argumentative, but in the many times I have installed Linux Mandrake, I can let you know that you don't have to install anything you don't want to. There is always an expert option that will let you configure everything all the way down the individual packages. I personally like to use the expert option on install...you don't have to install printers, network adapters, or even X11 if you do not wish. I wish you would take more time to explore your true options before making a decision or opinion. And the fact that there is an automated install option that will basically do everything for you is absolutely awesome and is definitely what most people are looking for. And, of course, I can choose the expert mode and truly hack Linux Mandrake to pieces if I wish. That is why Mandrake truly rocks.
Some day, to be fair, I promise to try Debian in order to be able to give a proper opinion of it.
All I know is that Mandrake is the definite true king of Desktop Linux and is the only true contender at this point in my opinion. I love it.
PS-Please try using the expert mode and let Mandrake show you it's true power as an expert system. You will be surprised, I promise.

Re:Keeps getting better...

[bigbadwlf]

Pardon my ignorance, but why do we all "need" to start using devfs?
What are the advantages?
Got a link?

Re:Keeps getting better...

[gengee]

Well, I haven't installed 8.0/8.1 at all. But in 7.2 you had no choice. In the expert install. You could deselect the packages in the expert install, but at the end of the installation, it configures X. It gives you three options. XFree86 3.3.6, XFree86 4, or XFree86 4 w/ Hardware 3d Acceleration. You have to choose one. When you choose one, it installs the packages anyway. Even if you already deselected them all in the initial package selection.

If you could explain to me how to get around that, I'm all ears:P

Re:Keeps getting better...

[gengee]

Yes. There is. You /can/ choose not to configure a printer or whatnot in the expert install, but my point was merely that I find it somewhat annoying that it even /asks/ me. After all, how does it know what I want to configure and what I don't? Why not ask me to configure something when I actually want to use it? (A la deb-conf).

Re:Keeps getting better...

[gengee]

My point was that you /do/ have to go through it. You can cancel out of the configuration wizards, but I dislike the fact that it asks me to configure everything.

And it wasn't an argument against using Mandrake. As I said, I'm sure many people like it. I was just offering my /opinion/ that I don't like it:P

Re:Keeps getting better...

[Tower]

IIRC, you could select any of the install points (Stars next to step names) on the left side of the screen and skip forwards and backwards, so once you reached the 'Configure X' stage, you could mouse over to the next one... not as great as a "please don't put that on my box", but it should work (it worked in previous versions).

Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Flabdabb Hubbard]

From an 'open source' perspective. Debian is the only GNU/Linux distro that adheres to RMS's definition of 'open source'. While Mandrake, and Redhat (based on Mandrake) are not open source, but are the more restrictive 'free software' as defined by Eric Raymond and Bruse Perens 'Open Software Definition'.

If you believe in freedom, you are better off going the debian route, since that way you are ensured that your distro is 100% Open Source, whereas with mandrake, it is all 'free software', but some of it may be released under the highly restrictive BSD license which RMS has criticised in the past, since it allows huge corporations such as Microsoft to profit at the expense of open source developers.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, it was an okay effort at trolling, but you stepped over the believability line with the phrase "highly restrictive BSD license." This should be a good test to see whether or not Slashdotters have gotten smarter over the years, or if they end up biting anyway. And if they bite after reading *my* post, they're worse off than I thought!

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Flabdabb Hubbard]

Not a troll at all. The BSD license forces you to make your code available to all and sundry. The GPL and LGPL are less restrictive, since they allow you to remain free of commercial exploitation. Also, the BSD license is viral, and has a worm-like nature.

Had I been trolling, I would have said something like "linux sux my w2k box has been up for 1 year rock solid"

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[jmcneill]

but some of it may be released under the highly restrictive BSD license

Please explain to me how a license that allows you to do more things with the code can be "highly restrictive" in comparison with the GPL. Thanks.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also on this note, if you want a Gimp package that includes support for .gif files, you should stick with Mandrake, as Debian won't include it. They're also in the process of removing XMMS, which plays .mp3 files, a proprietary music format.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Flabdabb Hubbard]

Well, the BSD licence forces you to release your code to the likes of microsoft who can take it, and use it for whatever they like, without merging the changes back. Which means that Microsoft could 'co-opt' code written under BSD license without giving anything back to the community. Suppose they took an implementation of protocol that was popular say the bsd tcp/ip stack and added MS extentions. Hey presto they have used your BSD code to screw you over and you have no more control!!!

Can you see now how the BSD license is restrictive ?

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[JanneM]

I might (and probably am) be very wrong about this, but doesn't the BSD license alllow you to relicence the code as GPL? What I mean is, if I take a piece of BSD licenced code and incorporate into my program, I am allowed to distribute the program under the GPL, right?

The whole point of BSD is that you are allowed to relicence the code in any way you want, as I've understood it. So, there's no way that BSD licenced code could be more restricitve than GPL, as anybody could take BSD code and just relicence as GPL...

/Janne

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Flabdabb Hubbard]

This is a good thing IMO. I support open source software. If I want Bruce Perens style 'free software' I would use Redhat. But I don't.

I'm not a zealot, I just think the BSD license is the wrong way for 'open source' supporters to go. It should be GPL all the way.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Pancake]

so you're saying MacOS X is a bad thing?

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Cryptnotic]

I like how this comment is moderated "Funny". Someone has a good sense of humor. :-)

Cryptnotic

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop responding to an obvious troll dammit!!!

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[sharkey]

You could tell us how Red Hat is based on Mandrake, as well.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[efgbr]

Wrong.

The reason Red Hat and Mandrake aren't 100% open source or free software is because they include non-free, non-open-source code. The Netscape 4 web browser is an example.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[jonestor]

Hey, I thought Mandrake was based on Red Hat.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hes saying the BSD licence is a bad thing

der !

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[be-fan]

Well, the BSD licence forces you to release your code to the likes of microsoft who can take it, and use it for whatever they like, without merging the changes back.
>>>>>>>>>
Umm, if you license something under the BSD license, you implicitly OK that usage. Some people don't care if their code gets used in a closed commercial system, if it makes that system better for users. Are you saying that that's bad?

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[breser]

That's the developers decision. The vast majority of people who use Mandrake aren't developers. They have no intention of making any code modifications. Probably never will look at source.

Freedom is about letting developers decide how they want to license their works in a way in which everyone can use them. And if developers don't care if someone like Microsoft uses their work without compensation, then let them.

Keeping their work from the world is merely because you as a developer wouldn't want to give up that right is silly. I can understand you not wanting to work on that code. But nobody is forcing you to make any changes.

So frankly this whole BSD license is bad has nothing to do with freedom but everything with RMS not liking anything he didn't invent.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[be-fan]

I think you don't seem to understand the definition of a "restriction." The GPL might lead to freer code, but it does that by being more restrictive than the BSD license. Take a different example. As an employer, you can discriminate against people when hiring. This is more restrictive, but also leads to a freer society.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[breser]

Netscape is in the process of being removed from Mandrake. For example Mandrake PPC no longer has Netscape. Besides rpm -e if you don't like it.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[MrProgrammer]

Great post, too bad so many people didn't get the joke.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Nailer]

1. RMS talks about Free Software, not Open Source

2. ESR talks about Open Source.

3. 98% of the packages included with Red Hat are Open Source. Netscape 4 (the main non Open Source one) won't be included in the next release. Pine is still there, IIRC.

4. Mandrake was derives from Red Hat (2 words). Not Red Hat from Mandrake. Tho it harly matters, Mandrake's now quite distinct from Red Hat.

5. Free Software has a specific meaning. Freedom is an english world which also a well defined meaning and which is not exclusively to do with Free Softare. People use the BSD license precisely because is allows large corporattions (and small corporations, and small proprietary limited companies) the freedom to use the software as they see fit.

And no, I don't use BSD or particularly like the BSD license. But they're my own personal opinions and I present them as such, not as `facts'.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

I had moderator privileges, and I tried to moderate the post from informative to funny, but I guess too many boneheads had already tagged it as informative. Anyway I moderated you up.

Hopefully people will see that it was a joke.

Ok, for the clueless. Every sentence in the post originating this thread was backwards.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

IT WAS A JOKE!!!

Can't you see that every fact was exactly backwards?

Mandrake was derived from RedHat, NOT vice versa.
RMS == Free Software != Open Source == ESR

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, everyone intially modded it funny. I had to mod it +5 insightful, so that a few morons would respond with lengthy essays about what free software really is. I don't like it when moderation provides hints for idiots. It ruins it for the rest of us. For instance, if one person mods this troll, it will definitely hit -1 very fast, from all the people who see the word 'troll', and decide that someone else has done their thinking for them.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[cobar]

I can't believe this got modded-up, it's an out and out troll, but I feel the obligation to respond.

>Well, the BSD licence forces you to release your
>code to the likes of microsoft who can take it,
>and use it for whatever they like, without
>merging the changes back.

Umm, no. The BSD license doesn't force you to do much of anything. You take the code, do whatever the hell you like with it - modify, sell, relicense to your heart's content, etc. and release whatever you please. If that means making changes, forking, and re-releasing under the GPL, so be it. Or taking and releasing in binary format. Whatever, so long as you maintain the copyright notice.

It gets me off to see GPL bigots talk about the GPL being more free than than the BSD license. Nope, it ain't - and I release my code under the GPL. Things start out in a state of freedom - one that allows total freedom of action or motion and by applying restrictions, suprise suprise, you move into a state of less freedom.

Whether that freedom is viewed in a positive or negative context, is irrelevant. By your argument, by making drugs illegal, we end up with a society that has "freedom from drugs" (ignore your stand on the War on Drugs here) or some such tripe. It may be a more desirable societal condition, but when you apply rules, you don't have 'more' freedom. It's just a moniker used by politicians to remove opposition by it look like rights are being expanded when in reality absolute freedom is being impinged on.

FWIW, most people who release code under the BSD license are quite aware what the freedom of the license implies. It may suprise a bigot like you, but sometimes people want to allow others to take and modify code without restriction. Some of them are even pleased if their code is useful to a corporation like Microsoft. The BSD license tends to maximize code use, the GPL code return.

For some reason FSF people seem to feel a need to make everything free and force it on everyone, willing or not. I don't agree with this, code is the property of the author, and it's up to him/her to decide what sorts of use and license should be allowed - BSD, GPL, or proprietary. Personally, I hate proprietary software and use vary little of it. I don't support proprietary software (outside of games) with my dollars, but I sure as hell don't campaign to put commercial software houses out of business. The right to my discretion as to how I license my code is a far more important right than how I choose to exercise it. Now respect the damn software authors choice.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[kireK]

Instead of arguing about which dist is better, why not spend time showing people why NOT to user windows on servers. I've seen hours of research done over just this topis... image what we (/.) could do IF we focused on Gates of Borg instead?

Does it matter that much if one dist was based on another? And if you are going to complain about that, atleast spend the time to get the facts straight.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Cryptnotic]

All you need to do is get the "libgif" instead of "libungif". Viola! Your Gimp now can write .GIF files (like you'd ever want to).

Cryptnotic

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[efgbr]

I'm not saying I don't like it, I'm just correcting the original thread started by someone else.

I do use only free software but that doesn't mean I use Debian. The only difference is that Debian makes it easier for you not to install any non-free package, but I can handle that myself.

As for Netscape 4 and Mandrake, I'm sure it's not going to be removed in this release (8.1). I do hope it will be removed by 9.0, with Mozilla 1.0 and all. The reason it's not on Mandrake PPC is because that arch is not very well supported by Netscape.

Personally, I don't care. I quit using Netscape months ago.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

yup you hit the nail right on the head :P

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[krokodil]

98% of the packages included with Red Hat are Open Source

Let's check numbers:

zembla /home/lord> rpm -qia | grep License | grep GPL | wc -l
516
zembla /home/lord> rpm -qa | wc -l
888

It's true, but it is also true another way around: 98% of packages are Free Software, not just Open Source.
This shows 64% of packages are under GPL, if you add to this other free licenses you will get more.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Godwin O'Hitler]

"Take my code and do what the fuck you like with it."

"No way, that's far too restrictive for me!"

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[rifter]

Mandrake indeed originated as a distro which took the current RedHat distribution, tweaked and upgraded a few things, and slapped on an even easier installer. However, as of version 7, I believe, it is no longer. However, it is still compatable with RedHat, as seen here.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please

try to use png as much as possible

the propietary of the gif compression formula is about to start making pay people (companies most) who uses it

png is the option

all ibrowsers support, but not support all the features of png (alpha-blending, i.e.) study the case

Saludos

Nestor Di

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[j0nkatz]

Well would you like some cheese with your whine?

If they wont include software that will let me use proprietary formats, who is the one being restricitve?

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Nickus]

Mandrake was based on RedHat not the other way around. But now Mandrake has gone there own way that is no longer true either I would say.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[breser]

You are correct that it will still be in 8.1 of the x86 version. However, netscape's support of PPC is fine. Linux/PPC had to ask them for source and work with them to get it compiled. Since Mandrake knew they were going to be removing Netscape further down the line they just didn't bother.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[mgkimsal2]

It's LZW compression that's the problem. CREATING GIF files without using LZW compression doesn't require any payments/licensing/etc.

Why do free software people who scream about CHOICE *LIMIT* my choice by refusing to support GIF at all, instead of just providing the simple workaround of supporting nonLZW GIFs? The situation with browsers is a bit better NOW than it was a couple years ago with respect to PNG, but all the 'awesome' features of PNG aren't anywhere CLOSE to being supported - and I can't do animated PNG files. I can display the SAME PNG in IE and NS, and the color representations are vastly different in some cases. PNG support is nowhere close to what GIF support was, but because a few zealots got on their PNG campaign the majority of the community suffers.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

Eric Raymond does Aikido

RMS does not.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[mikera]

Hmmm.... don't think they're being restrictive exactly. Nothing to stop you installing what you like on top of Debian.

They're just choosing an initial distribution based on a ethical/idealistic principle that they believe in. Nothing wrong with that.

Never used Debian myself, but I'm kinda pleased they're around just making the statement. All credit to people who do something good because they believe in it.

Re:Mandrake is cool, but surely Debian is better.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm too lazy to register, hence I will show up as "Anonymous Coward," but I'm dingodonkey :)

RMS is a freakin blind nutcase. I don't care what he thinks. Remember the ordeal with him and KDE? He's just loony tunes, that's all.

And, in fact, the BSD license is far more liberal than the GPL, providing you with far more freedoms with the software, if you've ever actually read both of them whilst working with software covered by them. A 2-3 clause BSD license is, without question in my mind, far more free than the GPL.

So what if a huge corporation profits at our expense? Depending on the BSD license, they have to credit you in any specified locations. My licenses require on all manuals, in the software itself in a clearly visible location, and on any packaging that it is distributed in. Maybe big companies can use your code. Maybe that is a compliment.

maybe later

[the_rev_matt]

While I like Mandrake as a newbie distro, I was not terribly pleased w/ 8.0. No hot swap USB is a major deal breaker for me, as I use a USB KVM (gotta get the iMac in there). I was intrigued to see Mandrake PPC listed on their site, however, and will be giving that a try Real Soon Now.

They note all the improvements of 8.1beta1 over 8.0, but none of it seems particularly compelling. The latest versions of X, Y, and Z are de riguer at this point, and can be added to your existing install painlessly anyway. The improvements to their management tools are incremental (yes, I know it's a . release). I'll probably grab it when it's final just to see the new mgmt tools but my system (running Krud) has the latest Gnome/Evolution/Gimp/Gphoto/etc etc etc already so it's going to go on the guinea pig box basically to see if I should install it on my wife's computer.

Re:maybe later

[X-Dopple]

I tried installing Mandrake 8.0 on my machine, and the results were spectacular. The installer did NOT like my machine one bit. Never a dull moment when the installer decided to tell me to go to hell by segfaulting and hanging about a third of a way through the installation.

The installer crashed because I had not provided any keyboard input at the "Networking" section". I tried text-only, lores, etc. etc. No dice. Removing memory helped somewhat but it wasn't enough to get me through the installer.

When I finally did get it installed, it turned out that the RPM database had been magically corrupted. Fsck also decided to run for no reason at all.

One wacky system, indeed.

Ahh yes

[cmdrsed]

Granted, the only cool posts to get now a days will be those containing 31337 such as:

#2131337
#2231337

Re:Ahh yes

[ubertroll]

Easy. Make another 60000 posts, and you're there.

m2

[Anonymous Coward]

I am part of the bottom 90% of users, so why does it say I can't metamoderate?

Re:m2

[Anonymous Coward]

I've noticed that too. I advise you to search for low-uid accounts that haven't posted for a long time, and see if the password is "slashdot". If so, then you can just use them to meta-mod.

tmohsttehfsp

[Anonymous Coward]

Two million one hundred seventy three thousand eight hundred fourty sixth post! Looks like Slashcode 2.2 still has some bugs...

Re:tmohsttehfsp

[Anonymous Coward]

damn, I only got the two million one hundred seventy three thousand eight hundred sixty fifth post... :(

on the topic of mandrake...

[crazney]

anyone know how i could get hold of the supermount patch they use? the official supermount patch broke with 2.4.4 and hasnt worked since - im using 2.4.9.

Re:on the topic of mandrake...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like real trouble. You're going to need plenty of legal advice before this thing is over.
As your attorney, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top. And you'll need the cocaine.
Tape recorder for special music. Acapulco shirts. Get the hell out of LA for at least 48 hours.

mandrake reputation

[quannump]

it seems like mandrake would like the reputation of being the most up to date distro. The release coincides with the release of KDE 2.2 very nicely. Some may not care for mandrake, but people on the linux for the desktop front should see this as good support for windows users looking to jump ship.

Mmmm Fresh Release...

[lifebouy]

New Mandrake releases are like nose-candy for newbies. I've been hooked for a while now. I love Slack, and Debian is where its at. But I still love to get my hands on the latest ML releases just to see what new things they put in the distro. But it makes ya lazy, everything(generally) works right out of the box.(Some might consider that a feature;) Mandrake Forum seems to be turning into a little community. Kudos particularly to Deno for that site. There's lots of nuggets to ferret out of that site if you have problems.

Buy American, not French

[The Ultimate Badass]

You seem to be overlooking one important problem with this distro: It's French! I know the buy American ethos is losing it's charm for many. I don't think it is safe for the open source community to encourage this. Right now, USA dominates the open source world, but for how long, with distros like SuSE and Mandrake cutting into Redhat's market share?

When Redhat goes under, and all open source development moves offshore, you will only have yourselves to blame, just as we Americans have only ourselves to blame for the tragic failure of our auto industry. Do you really want to put the French in a position to declare French the official language of open source development? I certainly don't, but it looks to me that their greatest competitor might soon be German, instead of English, the language which made free software possible.

I urge all linux users to avoid MAndrake and SuSE distributions. They rob US open source business of vital funds, and will inevitably lead to the collapse of more and more linux businesses.

Re:Buy American, not French

[Anonymous Coward]

And I say (as an Australian) - buy French :)

It seems like only a few years ago we were at odds with that country for testing nukes near our beaches....well they stopped :)

Re:Buy American, not French

[Anonymous Coward]

$10 says somebody is stupid enough to post a serious rebuttal to this.

Re:Buy American, not French

[Anonymous Coward]

"$10 says somebody is stupid enough to post a serious rebuttal to this."

Okay, I rebut you. Oh, wait. This isn't the "this" you were referring to. Damn.

Re:Buy American, not French

[MrRudeDude]

I'd like to warn everyone in this thread to watch their backs, there's an Aussie in our midst:

http://rugby.about.com/library/weekly/aa033101.htm

Re:Buy American, not French

[Anonymous Coward]

You may only use it if you're Acadian or Cajun. So there :P

Get Mandrake, I GAURANTEE it's the best distro.

Re:Buy American, not French

[bludragoon]

try Progeny it is better.
The install is as good and is more stable.
And the over all system is stable.
And nothing beats apt-get.

Re:Buy American, not French

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see it now...

Ou est-ce que vous aller ajourdhui?

Re:Buy American, not French

[Godwin O'Hitler]

In fact, the official Microslops rubberstamped translation is "Jusqu'où irez vous?" (How far will you go?)

Re:Buy American, not French

[msobkow]

Are there any American distros other than RedHat available? With the stability and reliability problems I've had with their 7.x series, I found myself forced over to Mandrake. Not only have all the commercial products worked fine under Mandrake 7.2 and 8.0 (DB/2 7.2, Websphere AAS, JBuilder 4, Sybase 11.9.2), they perform better.

RedHat is still stuck in the "lowest common denominator" mentality, while Mandrake only supports 586 and up. Lets face it, the only thing you'd be using a 386 or 486 series CPU for nowadays is a packet/proxy firewall or print server, and that's going to be a seriously stripped build, not a full system. The performance difference between a 386 and 586 built OS is quite significant, and I'm really surprised RedHat hasn't made builds for the older CPUs a special order item instead of hampering performance on the majority of systems.

But I digress (as usual)...

"Buying American" is an interesting theory, but it just isn't reality. Linux is an international project, with huge pieces of functionality from non-American sources. Philosophically, there is no such thing as an "American" Linux, anymore than there is an "American" car. About the only complex product you can buy that might still be 100% American is a Harley, and I think even they use some parts that are sourced overseas.

I like Mandrake but

[CptnKirk]

their migration path has been less than perfect for me in the past. In short when I upgraded to 8.0 there were many problems with KDE related to a previous KDE 2.1 install. There were strange glibc problems which caused crashes in bitkeeper and other programs. Their installer had problems figuring out which programs to "upgrade" as well.

My solution to these problems was to wipe and reinstall. Most settings were stored in my home dir which I did not wipe and the rest of the programs were upgraded as a side effect. My RiserFS partitions were uneffected and when I was finished the strage problems I had went away.

I enjoy my Mandrake dist. but I'd caution those who are looking to "upgrade" via their installer.

Re:I like Mandrake but

[cfreeze]

Part of the upgrade problems (7.2->8.0) were due to the major change of going to a new glibc revision. When upgrading from now on, I would suggest just using MandrakeUpdate. It uses urpmi (a nifty tool, some what similar to apt-get from the Debian world) to handle dependency issues.

Hey, where'd all the posts go?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this is a bug.

didnt they go bankrupt a while ago?

[Anonymous Coward]

or maybe it was some other distro

FP

[Anonymous Coward]

FP

where oh where

[Fishstick]

...have all the comments gone?

first pr0st

[Anonymous Pancake]

I like salad

Is slashdot running mandrake?

[sticks_us]

HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 02:02:58 GMT Server: Apache/1.3.20 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a mod_perl/1.25 X-Powered-By: Slash 2.001000 Connection: close Transfer-Encoding: chunked Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

OK

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, pater@slashdot.org and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.

Re:Is slashdot running mandrake?

[l3377r0lld00d]

> and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

Of course Slashdot would pawn off responsibility on to users....

Too many open sores makes them cranky

Ask Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the coolest sexual fetish?

it really...Raklet

[Irie]

from the article... now it is your turn to make it become Good and Wonderful Release(TM), namely Mandrake Linux 8.1(Raklet).
spelling taco :P

first real post ??

Problem?

[tankrshr77]

Mandrake is into making polished linux distro's for Newbie users.
Mandrake releases buggy beta versions on their website.
Newbie uses download beta version and have major problems, and get mad at mandrake.
Bad descision guys.

Re:Problem?

[phutureboy]

Ah, the final release versions are buggy as well. I've been running the 'drake since 6.0, and have found every release to have its own quirks and broken features.

For example, 7.2 would shut down, but never report that it was done shutting down, so I had to guess when it was done before powering off. 8.0's Software Manager doesn't retrieve and install dependencies the way it says it's supposed to, and even though my USB wheel trackball was configured successfully during the install, it didn't work once I rebooted. Had to do some investigative work to fix that one.

I really wish they would put the final releases through more rigorous testing. Mandrake is definitely a very cool distro, but it's not yet as polished and reliable as Windows. I still recommend it though.

Re:Problem?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh god, a buggy BETA version.

I shiver in horror.

Scott.

Re:Problem?

[stressky]

It's a beta, for christ's sake!
AKA Not For Newbies.

Any newbie who installs a beta of anything had better know what he/she is in for, and has no right to be angry at the author of the beta for broken features.

Re:Problem?

[tankrshr77]

Yes, but do all newbies know what the word BETA means?

Number one ?!

[ImaLamer]

I'm glad to see a new version of MDK so soon. I've a lot of problems since going to 8.0 from 7.2

I lost full video card support, couldn't update the kernel without killing the machine, and worse than all... my favorite xscreensavers wouldn't work.

I'm looking forward to this huge download, mostly because I would like to see the new 'Control Center'. Every other distro I've used never had a tool that worked so well.

I hope the software update is 100% working though...

Re:Number one ?!

[Dr_Cheeks]

I'm glad to see a new version of MDK so soon. I've a lot of problems since going to 8.0 from 7.2

What? But I haven't even finished MDK II yet! How'd they get up to the eighth game so quick?

This is whats fun about mandrake

[LennyDotCom]

They seem to always include the latest releases in there releases I seem to have more problems with mandrake then other disros but it's fun being on the bleeding edge

fp?

[Franklin_the_turtule]

nice, nice, red hat better, i just writes this to have tha chance of fp (i home i won't be 14# or something like that...)

Whats the deal with stuff?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello, whats the deal with stuff and the sucking of it?

Sweet....

[Linegod]

Good thing I got it before the mirrors where /.'d. With the 'few' problems with the Beta, you might be better off with Cooker....

Sucker

[ubertroll]

motherfucker
suckersuckersuck
suck suck
suck suck
uck
cke
ker
suck
suckersu
suckersucke . suc . . suc . suckersu . suc . suc . suckersu . suc suckersu
suckersu . suc . . suc . suckersucker . suc . suc . suckersucker . suckersuckersu
suck suc . . suc suck . suck suc suc . suck . suck sucke . suck
suc suc . . suc suck . suck suc suc . suck . suck suck
suc suc . . suc suc . . . sucker . . suckersuckersuck suc
suc suc . . suc suc . . . suckers . . suc . . . suc
suck suck suck . suck suck . suck suc suc . suck . suck suc
suck suck . suck . sucke suck . suck suc . suc . suck . suck suc
suckersuckersuck . suckersuckersu . suckersucker . suc . suc . suckersucker . suc
suckersucker . suckersu suc . suckersu . suc . . suc . suckersu . suc

I like kosher eggs

[Anonymous Pancake]

GOAT FUCKER"> I hate the lameness filter

sissies

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandrake is a sissie distro for wannabes and bandwagon jumpers. You ain't a real Linux user if you use Mandrake.

Re:sissies

[ubertroll]

You ain't a real Linux user if you use Mandrake.

Is that a bad thing?

Re:sissies

[Anonymous Coward]

Blow me

lp

[Franklin_the_turtule]

banjo sucks!!!

Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[Karma Sucks]

Why hasn't Mandrake yet provided KDE versions of the Drake tools? Am I the only one who strongly feels the need for this? As a paying customer I feel it frustrating that I am not being heard. Mandrake, are you listening? Please port those tools to KDE and give your users a choice!

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[nathanm]

Why hasn't Mandrake yet provided KDE versions of the Drake tools? Am I the only one who strongly feels the need for this? As a paying customer I feel it frustrating that I am not being heard. Mandrake, are you listening? Please port those tools to KDE and give your users a choice!

You do have a choice! Just download the source and port it yourself. They're GPLed software, so you can make any changes you want & distribute them.

If you don't have the skills to do it yourself, pay someone that does. Whining doesn't accomplish anything.

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[Anonymous Coward]

No QT license, limiting future options.

Most of it is done in perl...

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[breser]

Umm this is a odd comment to make about a generally KDE distribution (the reason for it's existance is because RedHat didn't use to ship KDE).

The Drake tools work just fine under KDE. Never had a problem with them. So I don't see what you're complaigning about.

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[rgmoore]

You do have a choice! Just download the source and port it yourself...

If you don't have the skills to do it yourself, pay someone that does. Whining doesn't accomplish anything.

Get off the guy's case. He does say that he's a paying customer, which means that he is paying somebody with the skills necessary to make a port of the Drake tools to KDE. He's paying Mandrake, who ought to have the skills if anyone does. And by standing up and saying that he wants the KDE port he's providing customer feedback about something that they might do to improve their product. Many companies would be very grateful for free advice about what their customers really want in the next generation of their product. Mandrake is clearly one of those companies, since they've gone to the trouble of setting up a web site where customers can make exactly those kinds of comments. Admittedly the suggestion might be more likely to be acted on if it were sent to Mandrake Forum instead of Slashdot, but I doubt that you've actually checked to see whether the above poster has sent the suggestion to Mandrake or not.

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[nathanm]

Something I left out of my previous post is the fact that porting to KDE would be completely useless. These tools can already be used by someone using KDE.

HardDrake, their hardware detection tool, is already a KDE program. The gnome version isn't even released yet, but available in cvs.

DrakX, their graphical installer, doesn't use any desktop. It's only used in the installation or upgrade of your system. Which is really only useful to someone putting together their own distro.

DiskDrake, their graphical partition tool, uses only the Perl/Gtk library for its interface, not gnome or any other desktop. Most distros (even the ones using KDE as their desktop) include Perl/Gtk by default.

Admittedly the suggestion might be more likely to be acted on if it were sent to Mandrake Forum instead of Slashdot, but I doubt that you've actually checked to see whether the above poster has sent the suggestion to Mandrake or not.

I didn't have to check. If the poster had checked MandrakeSoft's website, they wouldn't have whined on /. in the first place.

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[Karma Sucks]

I *am* a Mandrake user. You are obviously not, otherwise you would not make patently false statements that HardDrake is a KDE program. NONE of these Mandrake tools integrate with my desktop. Your message is full of lies, and I don't understand the point of these of lies.

As for Mandrake Forum, I did post my opinion there but the Moderator chose to moderate me down.

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[nathanm]

NONE of these Mandrake tools integrate with my desktop.

Integrate with your desktop? What is this buzzword bingo now? If you're using Mandrake Linux, you should be able to use HardDrake & DiskDrake just fine. DrakX can't be used with any desktop, it's only used for initial installation & upgrade.

It's no wonder you got modded down on the Mandrake Forum, with an attitude like that.

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[Anonymous Coward]

"QT license"? You realize, of course (wait, no you don't), that Qt 2 is GPL'd.

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[jfunk]

Why do they need to be written in KDE?

I love KDE and all, but limiting your setup tools to a huge desktop environment is insane. How many floppies will you need for the initial setup if you're not booting from a CD? What if you like GNOME and prefer not to have the KDE libs around?

Personally, I like what SuSE did: make a scriptable setup framework (YaST2) with multiple frontends (Qt and ncurses, they look similar). It didn't need to be entirely KDE-based to be integrated into the KDE control-center, and it works under GNOME just fine without KDE dependencies. It still works fine if you don't even have X.

Let me reiterate: forcing a million dependencies just to run setup tools is a terrible thing.

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[efgbr]

By integrated with the KDE desktop he means using the same buttons and widgets that the KDE applications use.

I don't know if you've been told already (since you consider HardDrake a KDE program), but KDE programs and GTK+ programs look different.

Re:Where the KDE versions os Drake Tools?

[dingodonkey]

I e-mailed them about that once. They acted like I was crazy and that there is not a problem with having two completely different widget sets thrown at newbie users in one environment. I think the Mandrake developers (from experience emailing them) need to be a bit more friendly, and take user comments much more seriously.

But, hell, their drake stuff seemed pre-alpha in 8.0 anyway, it only worked 20% of the time ;)

A Windows Desktop Replacement! (Really)

[zulux]

Once the few bugs get worked out - The whole Mandrake 8.1 sytem is really a Windows desktop replacement. I'm really excited to wipe out a secratary's Windows computer, replace it with Mandrake and watch what happens. My hunch is, after explaining to her that the Start button is now a "K" - and MS.Word is now called KWord, then she will turn to me and say "OK." And proceed to work as if nothing has happened. After a few hours , I bet she'll say :

"Wow, this new version of Windows sure has a lot of cool card games, Thanks!"

Re:A Windows Desktop Replacement! (Really)

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm really excited to wipe out a secratary's Windows computer, replace it with Mandrake and watch what happens.

Maybe if you upgrade to Mandrake 8.1 you will be able to spell as good as your secretary.

Re:A Windows Desktop Replacement! (Really)

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe if you upgrade to Mandrake 8.1 you will be able to spell as good as your secretary.

Dumbass, the correct verbage is "as well as" or perhaps "as correctly as." In addition, you forgot comma between "8.1" and "you."

wm2 0wn5 j00

[Anonymous Coward]

copenhagen is better than skoal.

Too Many Connections (Poorly made packages)

[gengee]

I suspect MandrakeForum is using the Mandrake PostgreSQL RPMs. They're built with a (default) 32 connection limit.

Warning: Too many connections in /home/www/mandrakeforum.com/html/mainfile.php on line 24
Unable to select database

Re:Too Many Connections (Poorly made packages)

[Russ Steffen]

What do the packages have to do with anything? In Postgres the number of connections is controlled by a config file. What this really means is that they didn't tune their database server. (Or at least didn't tune it for the slashdot-effect.)

Re:Too Many Connections (Poorly made packages)

[Xwild]

Much more likely its simply being slashdotted.

Re:Too Many Connections (Poorly made packages)

[landley]

Nobody can tune for the slashdot effect. This site is a cross between a gossip column and a distributed denial of service attack...

Rob

Re:Too Many Connections (Poorly made packages)

[phutureboy]

What do the packages have to do with anything? In Postgres the number of connections is controlled by a config file. What this really means is that they didn't tune their database server. (Or at least didn't tune it for the slashdot-effect.)

Yes, I'm sure the following config line would take care of everything. (I'm sure it's not Postgres syntax, but you get the idea)

MaxConnections 93498787446

linux mandrake

[Anonymous Coward]

what it is is bad grammar

KWord? Haha!

[ubertroll]

Still can't do real tables, wow, a real replacement for Word, really. Welcome back to the 80's.

Re:KWord? Haha!

[zulux]

I'll respong to the lack of robust table support in KWord:

For the vast majority of secratary-produced documents, tabs and tab stops are easier to use and easier to teach. I don't want them spending hours noodling with table setting and grid lines. I want them to get the damn document out the door.

If one needs documents of a lenghty nature - MS Word is not the answer. LaTeX is. You can have the secrataries enter the text, and have professionals do the layout.

Re:KWord? Haha!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. And the entire business world disagrees with you, too. Finally, very few people outside the computer science and maths world use Latex for anything. Adobe's products are much preferred for that sort of thing.

Re:KWord? Haha!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, phisicists and many chemists tend to use LaTeX too. More to the point, so do the vast majority of secretaries I know in the actuarial business: Which, as you may know, is hardly marginal. (hahaha getit? didn't think so. Damn teenagers on the site these days.)

Re:KWord? Haha!

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me restate your post: KWord doesn't support tables, so nobody needs them anyway. Selectric-style tabstops that force you to reformat your document every time the font changes are a better solution, no matter if the $12/hr secretarial staff knows better. Not that secretaries format documents, that job goes to some highly-paid LaTeX specialist in your strange reality.

I bet working with you is a kick in the head. That is, if you ever leave your parents' basement. With people like you advocating Linux, the enterprise is surely doomed.

Re:KWord? Haha!

[Anonymous Coward]

With people like you advocating Linux, the enterprise is surely doomed.

What are you, some sort of deranged Star-Trek fanboy?

I live in Redmond area and I can't figgure out what group is more pathetic: The MS Outlook 'team' on their day out at the movies, or the Trekies on opening night. I'm stating to thing that the Trekies are the smarter ones - they at least have girls with them.

Buh-Bye

Re:KWord? Haha!

[zulux]

Let me restate your post: KWord doesn't support tables, so nobody needs them anyway.

You havent restated my post correctly, as KWord 1.1 RC1 supports tables just fine. If you need help installing it, I'm sure your administartor will be happy to assist you. You might want to check out your local bookstore as well - they have all sort of books that can inform you on the use of your computer. Check out the books published by IDG - I'm sure they are on your level. Good luck!

PHP Nuke ~ banjo

[ImaLamer]

I'm glad to see they don't use 'Banjo" on the MDK forums.

Mandrake...

[Anonymous Coward]

...sucks. (Score:5, Informative)

suckersu

[ubertroll]

motherfucker
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suckersucker suckersu suc . suckersu . suc . . suc . suckersu . suc

F i r s t P o s t s

[Anonymous Coward]

make me horny.

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: What do you want? A medal?
No, a reason is unnecessary. Having trolltalk back would be nice though. And for future reference, putting spaces between the letters seems to get by that little regex in the filter.

Criminal Russian programmers

[ubertroll]

Dmitry Sklyarov makes me horny. Whenever I look at this picture, I have to jerk off immediately.

You misspelled OPEN SORES

[l3377r0lld00d]

SLSIA, suckah!

hah

[Anonymous Coward]

alert("hi")>asdf

so, what you're suggesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

...is hot troll sex?

Slashdot is running mandrake, Pt II

[sticks_us]

Anyone else getting this shiz?

Invalid form key: SWOJEQhMaX !

in other words...

[Anonymous Coward]

...a dmitry sklyarov fetish is the best?

Re:in other words...

[ubertroll]

Oh Yeah!

Slashdot sucks shit!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't older stuff and search work?

thanks!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

thanks for clearing up my befuddlement! :]

Need Advice!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a friend (a girl), and we're really great friends, but I want more (a relationship). How can I make her my girlfriend?

you're the greatest!

[Anonymous Coward]

god bless you, ubertroll!

The new system must have unlimited mod points

[sticks_us]

Never seen so many -1s, especially now that I haven't seen TollTroll around for awhile.

Lots of confusion here!

[Roadmaster]

It looks to me like you've got things backwards.

um. First, if RMS (Richard Stallman) heard you saying Debian "adheres to his definition of open source", you'd be in for the argument of your life. RMS has nothing to do with open source, he will tell you so if you ask him about open source, instead letting you know that he crafted the definition of "free software" and it applies to all GNU software. Debian, which could be called the "FSF-sponsored Linux distribution", uses exclusively free software. A program could qualify as "open source", but not as "free software", in which case it won't be in Debian (well, it might be found under the non-free section).

Second, who told you Red Hat is based on Mandrake? its completely the other way around, and actually, Mandrake has been the target of many comments stating how they are just a Red Hat ripoff adding nothing except a lot of cutting-edge but unproven software.

Finally, the BSD license might not be of RMS's liking, but it's a free software license (at least the version without the advertising clause), and altough it's not recommended by free software advocates, because it gives up some of the GPL's protection against appropriation of your work, it's certainly more free (freer?) than a lot of licenses that are OSI-approved, but which won't qualify as free under the FSF's definition.

Perhaps you were thinking ESR (Eric Raymond) when you wrote RMS (Richard Stallman)??

Re:Lots of confusion here!

[Anonymous Coward]

IT WAS A JOKE!!!!

Of course redhat isn't derived from mandrake. Of course RMS is the one who uses the term 'free software', and ESR is the one who uses 'open source'. Every fact was backwards, but the moderators didn't tag it as funny.

Re:Lots of confusion here!

[fors]

Mandrake has not been based on Redhat for a while now. They try to maintain compatability but are not fanatical about it. If Redhat does too far from where they want to be Mandrake will sacrifice compatabilty. A lot of Redhat RPMs will work with Mandrake but there are probably as many or more that don't.

Ugh, GCC 2.96, still

[Anthony Boyd]

They're still using the evil gcc 2.96, and not only that, the users in MandrakeForums want it that way. I am just not their market anymore, I guess. I see gcc 3.0 out with 3.01 coming, and my first thought is: "great, they can break free of Red Hat's crappy decision!" But the Mandrake users appear to want Red Hat compatibility even to the point of following Red Hat's bad ideas. Oh well. I was holding out for 8.1. I guess it's time to find alternatives.

Re:Ugh, GCC 2.96, still

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a reason; later versions of gcc are porked
for athlon performance(try half).

Re:Ugh, GCC 2.96, still

[reverius]

This was modded down?

Clearly the moderator has never used GCC 2.96... ;)

You guys forced to use RedHat know what i'm talking about.

Especially if you've tried to compile large MMX-optimised projects.

Re:Ugh, GCC 2.96, still

[festers]

Clearly you have never read this.

Re:Ugh, GCC 2.96, still

[Anonymous Coward]

For a clue, please read this.

you

[Anonymous Coward]

your're all stupid fucks. Especially the clueless mods.

Link to distro-comparison chart?

[Chuck Messenger]

In a recent discussion about another distro, someone posted a link to a great chart which showed the release numbers of all the major apps included in each distro. Can someone please post that link?

Re:Link to distro-comparison chart?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here ou go: DistroWatch.

a download mirror in australia

[jason andrade]

http://planetmirror.com/pub/mandrake/iso/i586/8.1/

btw, it's "Raklet" not "Rakel", from the filename.

cheers,

-jason

Sucker once more

[ubertroll]

motherfucker
suckersuckersuck
suck suck
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uck
cke
ker
suck
suckersu
suckersucke suc . suc suckersu suc suc suckersu suc suckersu
suckersu suc . suc suckersucker suc suc suckersucker suckersuckersu
suck suc . suc suck suck suc suc suck suck sucke suck
suc suc . suc suck suck suc suc suck suck suck
suc suc . suc suc sucker suckersuckersuck suc
suc suc . suc suc suckers suc suc
suck suck suck suck suck suck suc suc suck suck suc
suck suck suck sucke suck . suck suc suc suck suck suc
suckersuckersuck suckersuckersu suckersucker suc suc suckersucker suc
suckersucker suckersu suc suckersu suc suc suckersu suc

Features and Packages

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out the list of features and packages at www.distrowatch.com/mandrake.htm.

ugh, kde

[Anonymous Coward]

wm2 is way more 1337.

wm2

[Anonymous Coward]

why the hell does anyone use bullshit bloatware like kde and gnome?!? they are slow gui pieces of shit, designed to be "user friendly". well, this is bullshit, because real unix users don't need user-friendliness! real men use wm2. one thing we don't need are these easier-to-use gui pieces of shit tempting normal people to think they can use unix. if you wanna use unix, RTFM!! this trend of inviting normal people onto the 1337 unix user bandwagon is why i switched from linux to freebsd (running wm2, of course). too many people are using linux today, only because some assholes have made it easier for them. this is stupid, because the only reason to use linux or some other unix is to be 1337 and different. i blame redhat!

Re:wm2

[Anonymous Coward]

Real men spit, over eat, carry concealed penis substitutes, beat their wives, then gang rape the arse off some poor bastard first-timer.

I'm quite happy not to be a real man.

here's the solution:

[Anonymous Coward]

redhat, mandrake, etc... need to distribute all their future releases to use wm2 as the desktop environment. they should also stop giving customer support, and replace the dumbass instruction books with pieces of paper that say "RTFM". linus should disable future kernel releases from using window managers other than wm2. maybe then linux will have a chance of being 1337 again.

Hardware Problems -- Two Cures

[Futurepower(tm)]

I installed Mandrake 8.0, and I was amazed. Everything worked, and the install was easier than any version of Windows.

Sometimes bad hardware, or bad connections, can cause a difficult or impossible install. An adapter card that is not making good contact, for example, can confuse the install system. Bad contacts are cured by pulling the card or cable connector out a tiny amount, and pushing it back.

A spike in the power, if you are not using a battery backup, can put junk in memory. In this case, re-booting the machine and starting the install over fixes the problem.

Re:Hardware Problems -- Two Cures

[IronChef]

In the end, PC hardware is just FUNKY. I have used and owned many systems, and they all have personalities, like chimps at the zoo. When something just doesn't work on a PC, I shrug and try it on another PC.

If you only have one PC, that attitude doesn't help, I know.

I don't want to call the previous-precious poster cheap or ill-informed, but I have learned over the years that quality components make ALL the difference in the Wintel hardware world. There is no such thing as a bargain motherboard: you pay more in the end, even if the sticker price was cheap. I bet the Mandrake install trouble was caused by 1 or 2 "bargain" parts. No flames please, just stating my experience -- learned the hard way, I assure you.

Recently I helped a Mac-using friend build an Athlon system for games. It's reliable enough that Mr. PC Hating Mac Man is able to use it and not hate it, or himself.

(BTW, I am a self-loathing PC user. I have a Mac too, but I am on the PC when I am not doing layout. And I feel guilty about it.)

Thet's fucken hilarious!

[Anonymous Coward]

"I didn't appreciate being sodomized. After he got me the third time, he was laughing, and I said to him: 'You've got to be kidding, mate. You're going to get into trouble'".

The third time?

bah, I submitted this yesterday...

[Anonymous Coward]

It was posted on mandrake's site on the 17th.

Posting anonymously cause i don't want to burn karma

Why Slackware is Better

[CtrlPhreak]

I'm really a newbie. I'm not newest of the new, I can compile and have my own kernels/etc, but I still feel I have alot to learn before I can pull myself out of the newbie catagory, maybe low middle user or whatever...

I have used mandrake since 7.0, bought the power pack and upgraded since all the way to 8.0 every increment. Mandrake allways gave me a feeling of bloat and being unfinished. The install was nice, but all the setup and configure tools afterward seemed half done. They would work some of the time but not allways and not ever flawlessly. I allways ended up going and configuring everything manually. It also filled up my HD with programs that weren't documented or linked to anywhere. Just wasting space, not letting me know they were there or what they could do for me.

Also has anyone tried compiling a new kernel on a mandrake machine? It's a pain. They include all these extras in the kernel that if you give the system a new one it craps it's pants. I applaud their efforts in making a newbie distro, but I love my Slackware. The install is slightly less user friendly, but it is easy, quick and best of all it works. The system runs perfectly and it has just the software that I want and use, no crap . I have recompiled many kernels on it, mostly recompiles because I have forgotten something or another, and never have had any problems. It's also the little things, like having fortune run in the login script. It's just a slick and wonderful distro.

As soon as anyone gets their feet wet with Mandrake I highly recomend using Slackware. The best distro.

Re:Why Slackware is Better

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, thanks "newbie" for telling us why Slack is better than Mandrake! That really means a lot, especially in a post about Mandrake. Thanks for the wonderful insight, and as a "newbie" who can compile fucked up kernels I think you are eligible for some sort of prize or something.

Re:Why Slackware is Better

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a long time slack user and I agree with you on several points. Mandrake is very impotant though if we want to see broad linux acceptance. The GUI config tools and installer that MDK has are good enough for most users (most users are not power users). Mandrake is for every one from the Best Buy crowd to the experianced linux admin for specific tasks. I think one should use the right tool for the right job. One job where MDK is the right tool is for windows converts who dont want to do alot of readind and will be content running office software and web browsing. The good thing with MDK is that if thoes users want to become power users at some later point MDK is upwardly mobile and can be configured to be the perfect system for a power user. Slack has a very different set of goals and visions, so its not even fair to compare the two. Slack can be a good distro for newbies two because it is easy to learn because it is so well documented and supported. It also forces you to learn some things quickly like building the kernel which is good. But if I ever have to reccomend a distro for newbies comeing from windows the questions and answers are:

Are you willing to do some serious reading?
Yes:
Slack
No:
MDK
How scared will you be if it looks nothing like you have ever seen?
Very:
MDK
not at all:
Slack
Can you get allong without being able to efficiently operate the new system for a week while you do some learning and experimenting or can you put up with multibooting?
I can't:
You need MDK
Sure as long as its only a week:
Slack if your a fast leaner and confortable with computers in general
else
MDK
Sure can:
Slack

Re:Why Slackware is Better

[phoxix]

Hi,

I'm no Mandrake User, however I do wonder how could you not manage to upgrade a kernel.

The idea seems simple enough, that you should be able to upgrade the kernel on ANY distro. (And if you couldn't, I'd seriously doubt that distro would get very far in the market at all).

Additionally, please also stay away from the Kernel sources on RPM (or SRPM) file formats because those are normally shipped to help developers get a feel for what type of a kernel the distro shipped with.

Yes, I know I'm going to get modded down for saying the following, but please read the KERNEL HOWTO on linuxdoc.org and get the lastest kernel from $COUNTRY_CODE.kernel.org I don't see why it may not work for you.

Sunny Dubey

NOTE: debian users should install libncurses5-dev and bin86 packages before doing kernel updates.

Absolute freedom is an absurd libertarion myth

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever heard of anyone being absolutely free? Can anyone really envision such a condition? You claim that laws providing freedom from drugs actually reduce freedom, but for inner city dwellers, they definitely enhance freedom. Without drugs in society, people can leave their houses without fear of being robbed by addicts. Without road laws, people would not be free to use the roads safely, and they certainly would not be free to let their children out of their sight.

Absolute freedom is a logically inconsistent abstract concept used by self-serving libertarian nut-jobs. It is an argument used to oppose laws that enhance real freedom for real people.

Re:Absolute freedom is an absurd libertarion myth

[cobar]

Sorry about the bad example, it wasn't my intent to argue for absolute freedom but rather just refute the previous poster's assertion that the GPL is more free than the BSD using the logic that the GPL is the freedom not to get fucked by what he considers an abusive company.

Absolute freedom could exist in theory, it's just not practical for society.

I better start tracking the source..

[sinator]

I've made some suggestions and I'd like to see them come to fruition.

As a longtime Mandrake user, one of the major problems I have with them is their stalwart insistence on including the most cutting edge software with *all* options installed, and then the inconsistencies begin to flow.

Good examples include the following:

* By default on 8.0, iptables is installed (and not ipchains). portsentry is installed, but its default ${KILL_ROUTE} is to use ipchains. A minor, one line fix to portsentry.conf is all that is needed.

* Speaking of iptables, it's safe to say that one shouldn't include all options for iptables in a generic kernel. Some of the options aren't compatible with each other. Some of the options are from patches for various versions of the kernel. ipchains support and ipfwadm support are compiled in as modules, but the default ipchains package is, i think, statically linked, because it doesn't work when ipchains.o is loaded anyway.

* Modules for devices like /dev/rtc, /dev/nvram or the major/minor 36 (routing devices) are standard and configured, but the devices aren't made with default MAKEDEV. This isn't really critical to the system, but it is messy AFAIK.

* I swear, some of the patches are doing crazy things with the spinlocks. On 7.2 and above, when I compiled the system with USB support, 'apm suspend system' would freeze. This would make going into PhoenixBIOS hibernation (which worked with 7.0/7.1, and redhat) freeze as well. Without USB compiled in, everything is dandy.

* Various minutia: when one installs VNCServer, it prompts for a password from stdin, but by default, Aurora is installed, thus capturing keyboard and mouse input. Thus the system blocks on input.

This is NOT me bashing Mandrake. I love mandrake. Repeat: I LOVE MANDRAKE. I think it's very customizable, I think it's very easy for the newbie but quite configurable for the non-newbie (it should be noted that I was able to solve all of the above problems with a little bit of tinkering). It's just that these little blemishes should be addressed on minor point revisions (most weren't between major point revisions 7.2->8.0).

Damn mandrake forum

[colk99]

It already got slashdotted:P

Opening the door to newbies

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't knock newbie-friendly distros ...Thanks to Mandrake, I've been able to familiarize myself with Linux and am well on my way to being a full-time aficonado (I'm about 60/40 between LM 8.0 and Win ME right now). It's this kind of distro that offers entry to the non-Microsoft world for those middle-of-the-road pseudo geeks (like me) who've been disaffected by MS' strong-arming. No way would I -- and the thousands who will soon follow me thanks to the XP debacle -- find a comfort zone and embrace Linux if we didn't have the easy-install experience that Mandrake and its ilk provide. After we get our feet wet, guess what? You're gonna have a whole lot of converts to the cause. Call it Linux with training wheels if you want, but even Lance Armstrong -- and all of you /.ers -- had to start somewhere.

That's because it's the best thing out there

[Anonymous Coward]

• gcc 2.96 is actually more standards compliant than any other version
  of gcc released at the time Red Hat made this decision (3.0 is even more compliant, but not as stable) yet).
  It may not be "standards compliant" as in "what most others
  are shipping", but 2.96 is almost fully ISO C99 and ISO C++ 98
  compliant, unlike any previous version of gcc.
• gcc 2.96 has more complete support for C++. Older versions of gcc could
  handle only a very limited subset of C++.
  Earlier versions of g++ often had problems with templates and other
  valid C++ constructs.
• gcc 2.96 generates better, more optimized code.
• gcc 2.96 supports all architectures Red Hat is currently supporting,
  including ia64. No other compiler can do this. Having to maintain different
  compilers for every different architecture is a development (find a bug, then
  fix it 4 times), QA and support nightmare.
• The binary incompatibility issues are not as bad as some people and
  companies make you believe.
  First of all, they affect dynamically linked C++ code only.
  If you don't use C++, you aren't affected. If you use C++ and link statically,
  you aren't affected.
  If you don't mind depending on a current glibc, you might also want to
  link statically to c++ libraries while linking dynamically to glibc and other
  C libraries you're using:
  g++ -o test test.cc -Wl,-Bstatic -lstdc++ -Wl,-Bdynamic
  (Thanks to Pavel Roskin for pointing this
  out)
  Second, the same issues appear with every major release of gcc
  so far. gcc 2.7.x C++ is not binary compatible with gcc 2.8.x. gcc 2.8.x C++
  is not binary compatible with egcs 1.0.x. egcs 1.0.x C++ is not binary
  compatible with egcs 1.1.x. egcs 1.1.x C++ is not binary compatible with
  gcc 2.95. gcc 2.95 C++ is not binary compatible with gcc 3.0.
  Besides, it can easily be circumvented. Either link statically, or
  simply distribute libstdc++ with your program and install it if necessary.
  Since it has a different soname, it can coexist with other libstdc++ versions
  without causing any problems.
  Red Hat Linux 7 also happens to be the first Linux distributions using
  the current version of glibc, 2.2.x. This update is not binary compatible with
  older distributions either (unless you update glibc - there's nothing that
  prevents you from updating libstdc++ at the same time), so complaining about
  gcc's new C++ ABI breaking binary compatibility is pointless. If you want
  to distribute something binary-only, link it statically and it will run
  everywhere.
  Someone has to be the first to take a step like this. If nobody dared
  to make a change because nobody else is doing it, we'd all still be using
  gcc 1.0, COBOL or ALGOL. No wait, all of those were new at some point...
  
• Most of gcc 2.96's perceived "bugs" are actually broken code
  that older gccs accepted because they were not standards compliant - or, using
  an alternative term to express the same thing, buggy.
  A C or C++ compiler that doesn't speak the standardized C language is
  a bug, not a feature.
  In the initial version of gcc 2.96, there were a couple of other bugs.
  All known ones have been fixed in the version from updates - and the version
  that is in the current beta version of Red Hat Linux. The bugs in the initial
  version don't make the whole compiler broken, though. There has never been
  a 100% bug free compiler, or any other 100% bug free non-trivial program.
  The current version can be downloaded
  here.
• gcc 3.0, the current "stable" release (released quite some time
  after Red Hat released gcc 2.96-RH), fixes some problems, but introduces many
  others - for example, gcc 3.0 can't compile KDE 2.2 beta 1 correctly.
  Until the first set of 3.0 updates is released, I still claim 2.96 is
  the best compiler yet.

Trolling for GCC 2.96

Re:That's because it's the best thing out there

[jonathan_ingram]

Additionally, GCC 3.1 will not be binary compatible with GCC 3.0 (for C++ anyhow), so it's not a bad idea to wait. Sadly, I can see Red Hat releasing a new major release (8? it's up to 8 already?) with GCC 3.0 as the compiler, a couple of months before GCC 3.1 is released, purely to keep their continual upgrade cycle going. We'd then have to wait for ANOTHER release cycle for a compiler with (please please please god) precompiled headers and a stable ABI.

Re:That's because it's the best thing out there

[Anonymous Coward]

You posted the exact same message on Mandrake's forum. I think you have an agenda you're pushing, and I'm not buying it. Do you work for Red Hat? Linus Torvalds called RH with gcc 2.96 horribly broken. The people behind gcc 2.96 said they never expected what was essentially a pre-release version of 3.0 to end up in a distribution. I'm chalking your post up to misinformation.

postnuke instead

[beanerspace]

I noticed in this release they're still bundling the slower, buggier PHPNuke. Does anyone know if they'll ever to to a more stable, faster CMS like their mortal enemy, PostNuke ? Or perhaps add to this a PERL solution like the new and improved Slash ?

If you're not sure what the heck I'm talking about, here's a recent article in Linux.com that goes into some gory detail.

Wacom Intuos

[Anonymous Coward]

Support is in XFree86. Just edit your Xfconfig. I had mine fully functional in about 15 minuets even though I tried to use SuSEs Sax2 first. Sax2 botched it so I reverted to manual as any good geek would. BTW I think the "a" should be a "u". I would recommend using "Absolute" as apposed to "Relative" for the pointers. Also note that there are a few bugs in the Gimp that can couse some strange behavior (unless the were fixed in the latest release that I haven't had time to install yet. I can not imagine Mandrake not including tablets in whatever GUI X configuration tool they have, but if they did, no biggy, its still Linux and not that other OS.

Mandrake is very alpha quality on my machine

[Billly Gates]

Since version 7.1 I had problems with app stability and core dumps and starting with mandrake 7.2 it became unbearable on my system. With 7.2 I had no modem, sound card, nic, and even cd-rom support on my system. I use standard parts like USR hardware based modem, creative labs awe32 sound card, netgrear nic, and a teac cd-rw. It was awefull. I even downloaded a later iso image of 7.2 hoping the bugs were fixed and still no luck.

I think your nuts to put that thing on a server! Hell even NT 4.0 sp1 would probably be more stable then any mandrake release after 7.1 and I am sadly serious too. Sure the linux kernel is stable but mandrake uses very alpha and bleeding edge apps and daemons.

An example is kde 2.0. It had alot of problems with the first release. If I recall mandrake finished their release of 7.1 or 7.2(don't remember which) just 3 days later with kde 2.0 included!

THen kde 2.1 came out and all the other distro's thought it was finally stable enough. Better but still buggy. Then kde 2.1.1 and then it was good. My point is that a distro with bleeding edge software and lots of bugs gives linux a bad name. Especially for those sick of windows and seeking alternatives.

Joe consumer: If kde crashes more then w2k, then why should I switch? Remember that ordinary users think if x crashes then linux crashes because they are use to thinking that the gui is the os. My cousin tried mandrake and switched to w2k sadly. Why? kde 2.0 and a few other apps kept crashing or were buggy and core dumped were generated left and right. Core dumps are everywhere and even NT can be fine for a week or two before it goes down or a bug here and there shows up. But thats not the case with mandrake.

I use to love mandrake alot. When I was a newbie I wanted the gui componets because I did not know the command line that well. After learning it I do not want to go back. I think most newbies would not trade stability for extra eye candies and nifty cool bleeding edge features and apps. I personally prefer debian or slackware because they are the most stable and use the most mature apps but I can't get good corporate support. Redhat has good support but a few of their apps are alpha like gvim. I might give mandrake a try just to "goof" with it. But I will not bet my job on using it in a server or any critical workstation.

Bleeding edge is not necessarily a good thing in a server/workstation oriented OS like linux/unix. Especially to corporate america curious about linux and checking its reliability and stability.

Re:Mandrake is very alpha quality on my machine

[Anonymous Coward]

God, more trolls. Nice support behind your claims there, chief. Please mod the parent down quickly.

Wacom pads

[The_Great_Satan]

If your pad doesn't work out of the box in 8.0, try shutting down X and starting it manually. Hopefully they will have this problem fixed in 8.1.

What I really want to know though is, has anyone ever gotten the pressure sensitivity to work in GIMP? And if so, how? I'm using a USB Graphire and I am having no luck.

Re:Wacom pads

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Satan:

On Gimp pressure only works with the ink tool, from long time ago I must say.

I guess you thought pressure must work with all tools, and it does, as with the mouse you have pressure, size, etc sensitivity,
But, what we call "presure sensitivity" it's only available with the INK tool.

I do not know if this could be a problem for you, if you where hoping for the other kind of pressure sensitivity, anyway, is not a configuration problem, it's a application feature.

I have a Wacom Graphire, it perfectly works and I have no constrain in my artistic moments. But it could be a good feature for Gimp 2 to have real presure with the brush also.

All wacom and other pads works for gimp. You may experience problems with X , but not with The Gimp.

Saludos
Nestor Di

Device that doesn't work

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a device that won't work under it:

Creative Labs Dxr3/Sigma Designs H+ DVD decoder card

Mind you, the author of the driver will probably include devfs (if devfs becomes popular) support in the future as he is aware of the issue, according to the readme.

here's a little story i got to tell...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's me, Ian again. Sadly enough, it seems my previous
messages didn't reach all you dumbasses. Some assholes even had the
nerve
to call me all sorts of horrible names. Just a word of warning to those
particular people: I AM OUT TO GET YOU. AS MONEY IS NO PROBLEM, I WILL
JUMP ON A PLANE AND FLY OVER TO KILL YOU. I CAN EASILY MAKE THIS MY
PRIMARY TARGET IN LIFE. FUCK YOU PUSSIES. I COULD BEAT YOU ALL WITHOUT
WEAPONS. I AM STRONG. I AM THE BEST. GET IT?????

WHY DO I HATE NIGGERS THEN? WHY DO I HATE ALL MINORITIES, JEWS,
HISPANICS, ITALIAN FUCKS ETC.??? WHY DO I REALLY HATE THEM??

BECAUSE A LITTLE NIGGER BITCH FUCKED AROUND WITH ME ONCE!!!!!!!!!!

I HATE LITTLE NIGGER GIRLS SO MUCH I WANT TO RAPE THEM. So one day I
was
waiting by a school, looking at the little nigger bitches playing
behind
the fence. Dumb bitches. With their little pink smelly pussies sweating
and rubbing against their pink little panties. I bet the panties were
all
wet and smelly with their young juices. I hated the little bastards so
much my huge dick got very hard. I wanted to fuck and kill them.

So I waited until they got out of school, and lured one of them into my
car.. with my intelligence it was no problem. I just told the little
nig
her father had fallen ill and he had told me to pick her up. Dumb
little
8-year old nigger bitch. So young, and she already looked like a
nigger.
Thick lips, black curly hair, wide open unsuspecting white eyeballs,
pink
shiny gums.. As she sat next to me in the car, I was sure I could sense
the smell of her little nigger pussy. FUCKING BITCH I thought. She's
trying to seduce me.. the BITCH!!!!

I drove to my house, the little bitch only asked dumb questions about
her

ape father. As soon as I was sure nobody was watching, I punched the
nigger in the face. She dropped right away. Damn I was great! I dragged
her in through the back door, with my huge dick aching in my jeans. No,
I
DON'T WANT TO FUCK THESE LITTLE NIGGAS BECAUSE I LIKE THEM. NO. I DO IT
BECAUSE I HATE THEM. FUCK THEM ALL. FUCK WHAT THEY THINK. So I layed
her
on the floor and started removing her clothes in fury. I stripped her
down to her panties. At that time she was starting to wake up, and the
little bitch started to scream. Fuck it. I slammed her face again, and
started to sniff her soiled little panties. Damn these nigger children
sure smelled exciting, if nothing else. I could see her panties soiled
yellow with young dried pussy juice and pee. Naughty fucking nigger,
why
don't you change your panties, I thought. I started eating her while
she
was lying there trembling. But the fucking bitch started to pee. Her
white panties were all wet with fucking nigger piss. DUMB FUCKING BITCH
CAN'T HOLD IT! I beat her again and shoved my throbbing cock into her
tight red slit. Fuck I hated it. There was blood everywhere, and the
bitch was screaming like mad. This had to end!

I was soon finished, so I beat her black chest with my fist so many
times
she no longer made a sound. Fuck she looked horrible. The expression on
her little nigger face was enough to scare the dead. I hated every cell
of her stinking body. I realized I was still beating her into pulp, so
I
snapped out of it. She was a mess. I could smell blood, shit, piss,
pussy, puke.. I threw up on her. FUCK YOU!! Now I was mad!!! Coming in
my
house and messing the place up like this. I got up and jumped on her
face. It literally came off. Shit you little nigger. I hope your father
will see this. Monkey man.

I packed her into a cardboard box (niggers love them) and cleaned
myself
up. It was dark now, so I put the box in my car and drove some miles
out
of town. I left the box on the side of the road, so some asshole is
bound
to find it. I hope it's a nigger who found the box. A fucking worthless
nigger.

Think I'm a nutcase? I am not. I'm just an ordinary looking guy,
intelligent, social, cool in every way. It is not my fault these things
happen. I would do it again, I probably will. You see, I can do
anything
I like!! I bet you're angry huh? Hahahahahahaha. Drown in it, nigger
fucks. There's NOTHING you can do. Oh wait.. there is: If you're
something else but white, kill yourself. And kill your kids too, you
don't want them raped and THEN killed do you?

RANT

[socialist fish]

I would like to copy the comment I've just posted to Mandrake Forum:

---
I didn't test this release, and I think I wouldn't even try mdk 8.1. I'm too tired from problems with Mandrake. Specially with upgrades, I've trashed my computer twice: upgrading 7.1 to 7.2, and later upgrading 7.2 to 8.0. Both times I ended with MANY problems, for example, with the upgrade to 8.0 you folks decided to change packages names, and didn't have any precaution with that. So, before the libs for some package came included in the "main" rpm and the development stuff came in the "devel" rpm. Now, the libs came in the "lib" package, so yada.rpm won't install because it required yada-lib.rpm and my computer didn't have that package before. So the system kept yada-old.rpm which won't run with new glibc and that.. So I had to install/upgrade about 200 rpms by hand.

Also, I had infinite problems with ReiserFS because you included it when it was WAY too beta in 7.1, and then never checked if the filesystems created under 7.1 would run with a kernel upgrade. Well, it would not. I had to spend many days in the reiserfs developers list to find out how to fix the problem. And I did the big mistake of installing mdk 7.1 with reiserfs on many of my servers at work.

For ending this long rant, I would comment that in 7.1 pam had a structure which didn't used the "pam_stack.so service=system-auth" trick. And when you upgraded SSH for a security problem, you sent the 7.1 upgrade with a /etc/pam.d/sshd file which required the system-auth file. The result: I can no longer ssh to any of the upgraded boxes. At the same time there wasn't any upgrade for PAM available at the time, and the 7.2 rpm used a diffrent version of RPM so them were incompatibles, so I had to create /etc/pam.d/system-auth by copying it from newer boxes.

Mandrake folks: you made a beautiful and easy to use distribution, but you aren't paying any attention to reliability, nor upgradability.

I suspect many people now will have problems with XFS and ext3 as I had with ReiserFS.

PD: AND PLEASE: document in the package itself when it has non standard patches. I mean, specially, kernel. But also on others, for example CVS: nowhere it says that it has a shell script wrapper to pserver!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re:RANT

[chatak]

Use Red Hat Linux, you won't have all of these instability problems.

Re:RANT

[socialist fish]

Nah, I've jumped from RedHat more than one year ago. I didn't liked it too much, but I don't remember why :-)

Now I'm switching to debian, and I'm loving it!

Re:RANT

[msobkow]

Personally I never upgrade -- I reformat the drive and do a clean install. Even RPM upgrades (much less the whole OS) can break changes I've made to my system configs, particularly as most of the software I use isn't part of the core distro.

Another important issue is to either use one of the canned package sets, or start with the bare minimum and pick the specific packages you'll be using. Some of them seem to conflict with each other, particularly those from the extra CDs. Unfortunately you can only find out which ones conflict by running into problems.

As to stability and reliability, I have to tip my hat to Mandrake. Ever since RedHat started their 7.x series, Mandrake has not only been more current but more reliable. Common stock hardware (e.g. CUSL2, EEPro10/100, CD, 60GB IBM HDD, and SBLive OEM) would not run RedHat 7.x reliably, regardless of which release I tried. Mandrake 8.0 was solid except for an issue with kdelibs that caused the occasional crash (fixed within 2 weeks of initial release.)

Having tried to "roll my own" from the Mandrake cooker using LFS as a guideline, I know how much work these people do to get it working. They do a terrific job.

Re:RANT

[David Hume]

Also, I had infinite problems with ReiserFS because you included it when it was WAY too beta in 7.1, and then never checked if the filesystems created under 7.1 would run with a kernel upgrade. Well, it would not. I had to spend many days in the reiserfs developers list to find out how to fix the problem. And I did the big mistake of installing mdk 7.1 with reiserfs on many of my servers at work.

With all due respect, why would you install a new release with reiserfs on "many" of your servers at work? When you knew it was in beta? Without any prior testing? Before you got it to reliably work on you home machine, much less a server that perfectly duplicates each of your servers at work?

Re:RANT

[t482]

Haven't had too many problems with the EXT3 in RH 7.2...

rebooted - no fsck.... nice I want to try out XFS and JFS though...

Anthony

Re:RANT

[socialist fish]

Your reply makes me ask: why do we have a package manager if we cant just update??

And I answer: because the packages are POORLY done.

If you upgrade SSH (as I did) with the official security upgrade and it messes up ssh, then the problem is the packagers.

Re:RANT

[socialist fish]

Well, call me idiot, but I didn't know it was beta at the time... You have the option of using reiser in the installer and you're not warned, I fall into knowing it was too beta by reading the developers' list and by my own experience. In fact, I think Linus shouldn't have included Reiser in 2.4.

I've tested reiser at home for a couple of months and it worked just fine, and also it did at work. The problems came when I first tried to upgrade the kernel of my computer at home and it never booted again.

It's supposed that Mandrake tests its software before going "stable", if I had to test all the packages on my own, then I don't need any distro..

UDF, sound, VCD?

[Anonymous Coward]

Will Mandrake support UDF from the start? Or do I have to do something before I can get UDF support?

I also have some problem on the sound. I'm using the onboard sound on Intel D815EEA2 motherboard.
If you would be so kind to tell me your experience with this motherboard ...

Oh, can anybody tell me what program I can use to watch VCD?

A Cure for Hardware Problems: Don't Have Them.

[Futurepower(tm)]

I have learned over the years that quality components make ALL the difference in the Wintel hardware world.

This is EXACTLY correct, and very important. Often cheaper components are being sold cheaply because they are somehow incompatible.

Save yourself grief. Buy the best hardware. Buy Intel motherboards with Intel processors, for example. The easy install with Mandrake 8.0 (two comments above) was with an Iwill motherboard and a Pentium 200 processor. At the time the system was bought, these were conservative choices for hardware.

I own a small computer dealership, and could have chosen any hardware on which to test Mandrake, but I wanted to see if the reports were correct. Is Linux fast on less powerful machines? It is.

The big hardware manufacturers want new software to be slow, because that causes customers to buy more expensive machines. Linux doesn't have this conflict of interest. It runs fast everywhere.

Good-quality hardware helps you avoid problems caused by a BIOS or OS programmer not coding for your particular hardware.

Once a friend bought a sound card for $12 from Fry's, back when sound cards were expensive. After several hours, we decided we would never be able to get it to work. That was the most expensive sound card I've ever touched.

Mandrake and the Gurus.

[jlas9]

My opinion is that Mdk 8.0 is very configurable and i afraid that newbies as well as experts can feel comfortable in diferents ways with this distro.

Wacom Tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey,
I'm not sure if you guys figured how to get the tablet to work (the usb one intous), but after reading a few docs, etc..
i got it working, this might help some of you, and my setup is pretty common..

http://rain.prohosting.com/akbara00/xfile.txt

You guys are hilarious!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been using Linux for a long time now. I love Linux-Mandrake because I can get everything up and going in a short amount of time AND STILL HAVE THE OPTION of editing script files to set-up things on my system afterwards. If I want to dig deep into my system, use the terminal to enter commands, not use X-windows or whatever us so-called power users like to do on a Linux system, I can still do it with Mandrake (and lets face it, those damn penguins are cute!). Mandrake does not "dumb-down" Linux like Windows. It lets power users and newbies use one platform. I also think that is very hilarious that Linux users would be arguing over how easy and less time consuming it is to configure and install their favorite distro versus another distro. This shows you how far the Linux distros have come to eliminating the myth that Linux is hard to install. Great work Mandrake team, Debian team and all other distro teams that have attacked this problem head on. As for Windows users, if you use your computer to do serious gaming, stay with Windows and wait for Wine to develop furthur before switching over. To all other Windows users, Mandrake is kicking serious MS butt!

Kelvin Miller
aka theKid

MOD PARENT UP

[mgkimsal2]

Well said - I'd mod you up if I could. :)

Re:Wacom pads - flamebait?

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF. I guess the moderator did not read the post let alone the artical.

It's business - they're competing with M$

[Dr_Cheeks]

Well, when you're trying to run a profitable company and please your brand new shareholders you can't just rely on a bunch of Slashdot regulars to keep you afloat, because a lot of them are just going to go d/l the ISO's.

So who do you go after? The Big Money - PHBs. But in general PHBs are considerably less willing to ditch what they know in favour of some upstart OS like Linux, so you need to appeal directly to them.

Now, believe it or not, M$ have actually spent a large amount of money in the past figuring out how to make stuff user friendly - even basic things like buttons illuminated from the top and _left_ rather than top and right were decided on by focus groups. But since M$ can't really claim to have been first out of the blocks with the WIMP GUI (I imagine Apple, and Xerox would have a lot to say if they did), it's difficult for them to lay claim to a lot of the desktop elements that they developed. Which means that companies like Mandrake can rip them off.

All of which makes their OS more familiar to those PHBs with fat wallets. But while the PHBs may have fat wallets, they usually have a big padlock on them too. And if, for example, their current OS vendors decided that they were only going to rent the new version of the OS to them, the PHBs might finally start looking around for a cheaper option.

Enter Mandrake, stage right, saying "Look, we look like XP, only we're all stable and won't cost you nearly as much". It's just business. And hopefully it'll improve the market penetration in the lucrative corporate desktop sector. If you want to stay 1337 then you can always use a different window manager (IIRC, Mandrake comes with quite a few in the default install, and nothing's stopping you adding more).