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McNealy Calls for National ID Card Too
Syre writes: "Well McNealy's at it again calling for a national ID card (a smart card powered by Java, anyone?)." So let's get this straight: Oracle wants a national ID card powered by Oracle. Sun wants a national ID card powered by Java. (Even though the U.S. already has a national ID card, since the states are in the process of linking their driver's license databases together.) Is there any company that doesn't want to exploit a tragedy for financial gain? And didn't each and every one of the hijackers present valid ID?
I'm still waiting for my Slashdot ID card!
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
Think about it. Easy to hack, no security, have to reboot all the time, and you always have a lawyer on call.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
but if Sun and Oracle had their way at least the hijackers would've had to pay them a royalty first.
So, what's wrong with all the other national ID cards we carry around in our wallets? Social Security card not good enough? My drivers license not good enough? Passport? Credit cards? As if the government can't find out who I am using these 'old' methods.
Exactly what advantage does yet another card have? I'm sure they'll be just as easy to counterfeit as current identification methods...
Culture is more than commerce
"Absolute anonymity breeds absolute irresponsibility"
So, Mr. McNealy, shall we assume you are now absolutely anonymous?
"I'm tired of the outrage. If you get on a plane, I want to know who you are. If you rent a crop duster, I want to know who you are,'' he said.
If you head a large corporation, I want to know who you are.
A long time ago, this man was respectable. What happened?
"Don't mind me cutting myself on Occam's Razor"
What info do these "authorities" want? Under what circumstances can they requisition this information, or ask the person to make an ID?
I can understand using it in a fully secure situation such as boarding a plane, assuming that such a thing is Constitutional and isn't yet another link into the Revelations style end of humanity, and assuming that it can be used accurately.
Of course the answer to that last question fades off into potential violation of independant liberty, as in requiring national criminal ID for renting a truck in case you intend to load it with a fertilizer bomb. But I think at least the previous questions should be reasonably answered.
How can a driver's license count as a national ID card if everyone doesn't drive, or qualify for one?
a: no - let's increase check-in security.
q: do we know that bin laden is _actually_ responsible, not just capable?
a: no, let's bomb the hell out of the taliban.
this type of reactionary non-critical thinking is rampant so many places and it makes me grumpy. grr.
but i digress...
The Oracle ID card would have an initial cost of $100,000 and require a fulltime DBA to administer.
how about a card using TCL :)
"And didn't each and every one of the hijackers present valid ID?"
Yup, but the airport security couldn't make out the names because the cards only support 7 bit ASCII chars.
--- Worst tagline ever.
>And didn't each and every one of the hijackers
>present valid ID?
No. That's why a couple was arrested for selling fake IDs to some of them.
Woogie
The terriorist did indeed present valid ID's, but under more careful exam. some of the id's were expired which should have set alarms off in securities head...
Sorry to play the devil's advocate here, but these people are payed the big bucks to enrich their stock holders. It's their sole purpose. This is an excelent oportunity for them to do so. Wtf do you expect from any self respecting CEO?? (excluding Steve Jobs maybe)
Maskirovka
Is there any company that doesn't want to exploit a tragedy for financial gain?
I know exactly what you're talking about. Trust me, you're not alone. Don't you feel like you should say something? Don't you just want to scream out loud, "Let's have some dignity!" Of course you do! And for $12.99 you too can get a T-Shirt that says just that! Just call this 1-800 number and get yours...
(sorry, it's pissing me off too. thought maybe some black humour would help)
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
crime isn't prevented by positive identification
we already have many forms of ID
Passport, Social Security Number, Driving Licence etc. etc.
There's not much more security for anyone by introducing another sort but it does introduce an excuse for cops to run you in or generally hassle you for "ID please" as no doubt you'll be obliged to carry it at all times. Imagine that. An object you have to carry everywhere on penalty of criminal punishment.
One step away from chip implants or an iButton welded to you at birth.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Larry Ellison pointed out that all the information is already in some databases, but while businesses like VISA, AMEX and others poll their databases and link these data together, federal agencies do NOT. If they did, 6 of these 19 terrorists would have been CAUGHT at entry and the attack would likely NEVER happen since they were sought for in some counties in US. How can someone get into the country without notice by INS when he is on 'Wanted' list on Florida?
The other point I've heard was that (as I've heard) Oracle planed to donate database software for the purpose of creating the global ID.
And last, but not least, the plan for global ID proposed by Larry Ellison should have been on voluntary basis to make things for you convenient and avoid these long and thorough checks of identity that will definitely appear on different wanna-be-secure locations like airports.
Get your facts straight, please, before starting to slander someone's ideas.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
Rant first, content on a national ID card system below.
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but you're in a capitalistic society (Assuming you're in any of the first world nations, at the very least) which is busily reforming the entire world in its image, which is the way it always goes. Whoever's on top has the most time and money to throw away on cultural nonsense (Hollywood, Big Music, et cetera) which shapes everyone who comes in contact with it. These days, that's pretty much everyone. Even world music is becoming more and more like the music we listen to here, with very little exchange in the other direction - At least comparatively.
In fact, Big Music has put together several compilations, a small part of the proceeds of which go to disaster relief. But they're just the ones we have the jihad against (While at the same time buying albums from them) so they're the ones that stick out the most, except for one notable example.
That example is the set of flag crap that they're selling on late night TV for $19.95. They're little flags that clip onto the tops of your windows, which is an okay idea if you drive with the windows up all the time. In the final shot of all the products (which includes a "god bless america" flag or something like that, a normal american flag, and some other kitsch) they put their stupid flag IN FRONT OF the real American Flag, Capital A, Capital F. I mean, I'm not all that worked up about it, but that shows the nerve of these people. They might as well have had a big million dollar bill flag that was in front of both of them.
On The Other Hand, you could see this whole thing as a Triumph Of The American Spirit(tm). Here we are making shit-ade out of the shit we've been handed, and we're drinking it up and smiling as we clean our guns. Say, while we're on (off?) the topic, does anyone else think that we ought to send some militias to Afghanistan to kick some ass? Those people have too much time on their hands anyway.
Anyway, now the content; A National ID card is coming, like it or not. I suspect that they'll just tie all the state databases together for a while, then work on a system to replace it while people get used to that. When it comes, I'm going to have to rush out and pay Texas some traffic ticket fines I've been blowing off (mostly due to a lack of employment due to the tech crunch) so they don't take my license away. Unless, of course, various states choose to only maintain the working relationships they have now.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
national ID underwear, tongue-studs or bracelets... cards are so overused...
Actually, many of the hijackers presented forged ID, and to this day we don't really know who they are.
Furthermore, as many of them were in the country on temporary visas, with a national ID there might have been a way to root them out. So do not pretend that there are absolutely no benefits to having a national ID.
Still there are drawbacks, and no it doesn't have to do with any silly 1984-type distopian fantasies. With a national ID used everywhere, all those lovely illegal immigrants from Latin America would be kicked out. Why is that bad? Because it would very quickly drive the U.S. into a full fledged depression. The U.S. needs its illegals just as much as they need us; it's just that we don't admit it to ourselves.
Just because the U.S. isn't being hypocritical dealing with the Taliban doesn't mean we aren't hypocrites in many other places.
Do you brown-shirts have nothing better to do than post your nazi ravings on slashdot? I respected this area as a place for the most intelligent people I ever knew to post, and I still do, so I hope never to see such as this posted under the guise of "comment".
There are two separate issues here. A national ID is not necessarily so bad. However, assigning a uniques identification number to each American is what threatens privacy. Having a unique ID number which is accessible to anyone permits cross-correlating databases and other methods of mining data and constructing profiles of people. Also, if there was a bar code or similar machine-readable encoding of the number on the ID card, then soon anyone (airline, dentist, grocery store, border guard, building security) would start swiping the card and recording our movements and activities in a way that would be very easy to combine in giant databases.
I am not saying this would happen, or is even likely, but it would be possible and that is scary enough.
Ok,
.NET/Java2EE or whatever like this:
....
... the goverment uses it, you might as well use our system, because they do too ...
So now everyone thinks that services is the next big thing that will save the IT world and all the tech companies, so everyone is lining up for a universal ID system, which will somehow be tied to
<conjecture and humor>
The Microsoft Network, the only online service that ties directly into your NationalID, so you can do your taxes, use government services, and chat all with one service! Use your NationalID at amazon, cdnow, and others. Remember, the IRS deadline for NationalID is next month, don't get stuck using 'non-standard' protocols like Quicken, or paper.
Oracle - Oracle saved 34 billion running its ID on its own ID system, how much will the country save?
Sun - We're the ID behind NationalID.
</conjecture and humor>
By selling a National ID Card system that is smart, these large companies can leverage that to tie in more 'services' to 'integrate' this to whatever they are selling. In other words, more spam for everybody
As much as we hate to admit it, the government sets a standard, not really on purpose, but because they pick something and stick to it (MS Office for example). Now, take that standard and use it to get a leg up in industry
Interesting that fully half the referenced article was about Sun and Microsoft fighting over who get's to be the big bad ID authenticator of the digital age.
No has yet mentioned Microsoft, not even to rant at them. Amazing.
I think the Slashdot, anti-Microsoft crowd should learn this once and for all. Sun, and all the other Microsoft hating companies, will come back to bite you in the ass if you help them fight Microsoft.
McNealy's statement is fucking disgraceful. That is all.
All you have to say is hey, you have to drive a car to live in this country.
Well, that fucks over the blind.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
It's a push to indirectly give police officers power to murder. Remember the black/hispanic immigrant in NY who was shot with 41 bullets?
"LOOK OUT! HE'S GOT ID!"
After I have received the wisdom of good teaching, I will untiringly teach all people. - The Teachings of Buddha
the hijackers not only presented valid ID but also the ID they had were completely legally obtained by naturalization or VISA Identification... soo really how does this solve the terrorism problem.. It so sad to see so many people using these tragedies as a spring board for their own personaly gain and political platforms
Who makes you Sig?
What I want is a national ID card powered by Microsoft.
If I get stopped by the cops, I just show it to them, and they are so filled with FUD that they let me off, scott-free.
Start with the summary for the story:
Is there any company that doesn't want to exploit a tragedy for financial gain?Certainly there are many who have no intenion of profiting from tragedy. Probably at least as many as intend the opposite. The question is, I hope, rhetorical, even if silly its face. I'll ask one that's going to get an equal, but opposite response, and is just as useless:
Can a company intend to do something that is not purely profit-based? Is it possible for a Company to be less than Wholly Evil?
And didn't each and every one of the hijackers present valid ID?Possibly. Although the interesting thing is that this presumes that presenting ID, as such, would have prevented the events on 9/11 in some way. I think everyone knows that presenting IDs and answering three questions isn't a security system. Many, many people get credible IDs merely to drink alocohol. Many people follow this up by lying when asked their age. So clearly, the system as a whole was completely inadequate.
ID cards, such as they are currently, are indeed, largely useless for security purposes. But what if we had a national ID that would be useful for increased security? There are, of course, many, many potential pitfalls. But also many potential benefits. I will not argue the case for or against ID cards. Many people much smarter and more eloquent have done so. But it seems that this is an issue worth considering, regardless of the companies that may or may not profit from it. Skip the knee-jerk anti-corporate reaction and actually consider those arguments.
Saves space in my wallet if they can link this ID card to Drivers license, Bank Accounts (cashless society), Credit cards, Discount Programs, Passport/Citizenships...
Actually, you probably wouldn't need an ID card if everywhere you went had computer terminals linked to the system, and all you needed to do was punch in your SS number to bring up your ID.
But man the fraud/abuse potential for such a system... scary!
Why don't you log in and post that, Mister Full Disclosure?
why?
What is a national ID card good for? What is it going to prevent? Will it prevent a guy from walking into a bank and holding it up? No. Would it prevent what happened one month ago? Definitely not, based on all the safeguards the perps passed right on through.
Guess I should just say it now - Ellison and McNealy are nothing more than opportunists who are taking advantage of a bad situation in order to pump up their stock prices.
Slash! Seriously... think about it. You can always hide yourself, but it makes fun of you. You get promoted for group-think, and struck down for originality. Almost everyone has a connection to Natalie Portman (usually in the form of hot grits-- great for down south... both the South, and the other meaning ), and finally-- everyone will be able to spot and avoid JonKatz just with one checkbox! W00t@ge!
-- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
I heard him speak on computing power not so long ago may two or three months) and he was adamant that users should not have computers much more powerful than today and something to the effect of limited availability of computing power except when licensed.
I wish I could find a transcript because I can't vouch for the details, but it was shocking.
Oh well, big business is quite happy with big brother, what's new.
Forget about Id cards, I want Gataca style instant DNA id. A quick pinprick, a little analysis, and a check against a database.
The day this is implemented is the day I become a hermit in the Middle Fork Wilderness area.
Fly Fish? Participate in our forum
But seriously, it looks alot like this would be a great tie in with the reciently proposed .net competitor. Especialy they got a primary dataload that contained all 280+ million Americans. From the Sun / Oracle perspective it woudl be perfict, and would define any other system as a second class wana -be-competitor.
Personaly, I don't trust any of them to build a secure system, or even something reasonibly secure.
Actually Larry offered it for free, if you read through or listen to.. but considering the average intellect of the readers here... probably too much to ask. So aside from the fact that it's a good or bad idea. At least in Larry's case the primary goal was not $$ . But hey, be jealous... always need someone to bitch about...
The security problem that people keep trying to address with ID cards cannot be addressed by the card alone. It has to be coupled with measures to force you to carry the card, and measures to force you to show the card. Both of these can be enacted now, with current existing means of identification. I don't want to see it though.
Now don't go raggin on Micheal. He is trapped by the indoctrination and propaganda he received at the undoubtedly extremely leftist, elitist school where he got his "degree". Rag on the a-hole "Professors" who taught him how to think and what is acceptable to critique.
``Absolute anonymity breeds absolute irresponsibility,'' he said. ``We need a thumbprint Java card in the hand of everybody in the country.''
Somehow giving up one's privacy will "breed" responsibility? Funny, I don't remember learning to be responsible by having everyone know all the details of my personal life. Yet here's this character lecturing Americans that we need to give up any semblance of privacy in order to be responsible citizens. Feh.
Besides, the last time I checked, many of the most evil acts in history were perpetrated by people who were quite well known to everyone else. I'm not sure that I see the positive correlation between being anonymous and being irresponsible and whether *America* will truly benefit from this scheme.
Furthermore, when he says "We", does he mean the citizens of the US? Why do I suspect he is talking about Sun, its CEO, and its investors and not the citizens of the US?
Finally, I wonder if this petty dictator-wannabe's "Java card" will let everyone he interacts with to know just how much of a threat he is to our basic human liberties... I suspect not...
Only barcodes tatooed on the back of the neck will solve these problems.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
Get off it, come up with a better solution (doing NOTHING is NOT a better solution), or sit down and shut up.
so I could host my homepage on the card.
Why should they get to decide what goes on MY id card?....I could see it now, at the checkout line sliding my card through the reader,
and the checkout clerk says
"hey did you do those animations yourself? that's really cool!"
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
Oracle wants a national ID card powered by Oracle. Sun wants a national ID card powered by Java.
..and since the government does everything by committee, we'll get a national ID card powered by Java running Oracle. Of course, getting that much software to run on something the size of an I.D. card should keep these two companies busy for at least ten years, meanwhile we'll have bought some time to do something useful, like wipe out terrorism or elect new leaders.
Java & Oracle on a chip, indeed. That's like Microsoft saying that they're going to get into television or something!
It really annoys me that practically no media agencies have picked up on this point. We can outlaw encryption, have a national ID card, require a strip search to board any form of public transportation, and have video cameras at every intersection of every little dirt road in the middle of nowhere. But none of this would have helped to prevent the World Trade Center tragedy. People don't seem to realize that all of these "anti-terrorism" laws are completely irrelevant to terrorism.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
The United States should be concentrating on teaching the rest of the world not to be starving and hateful. Or at least how not to starve because we haven't quite got the not hating part completely down ourselves. But it's so much easier to drop bombs and sell each other new things...
Now I gotta give 'em a full animation?
My local Taco Bell doesnt take credit cards.
National ID Card? They dont take checks either.
Aha, We can starve the terrorists!
What is going on with Sun lately?
.NET.
It really seems that Sun has resorted to "Ah, yes, that sounds like a good idea, but it can't work under {Microsoft|Oracle}".
Witness the Liberty Alliance. Basically, what Sun was saying was "well, a global authentication mechanism really is needed. We just can't have Microsoft doing it, because Microsoft is the evil empire."
What about Java? Originally promised as the end-all, be-all of programming languages, it has since dwindled into a niche of server-side programming. JSP only came about because ASP did. Sun had XML for years (in fact, Sun employees did invent XML) before Microsoft finally ponied up a strategy for using it with
Jxta? What is Jxta? "Peer-to-peer protocols"? Jxta came about because of Napster, but I don't see any applications using it yet...
Now, Oracle has requested national IDs, and Sun again jumps on the bandwagon, this time with McNealy claiming that he wanted to use them for national IDs all along. It's true, Java smart cards have been in the works for a while, but I don't think McNealy originally created them for a national ID system.
The future of Sun really worries me. Back in 1996, when anti-Microsoft sentiment was just starting to take off, Sun really was the leader. A lot of people thought that Sun might be their only chance for keeping everything from becoming a Microsoft product. But so far, they have failed to produce anything that lives up to their numerous claims. Java has been moderately successful, but not in the realm in which Sun originally intended (client-side applications.)
I really wish Scott McNealy would stop making these privacy-bashing claims and go back to making the great servers that made Sun famous. Why has Sun taken so many tangents lately? It really seems like Sun's core server business has suffered because McNealy's wish is for Sun to be an overpowering empire, not just an awesome server company. I really wish Sun the best, but as their prospects for profitability dim and they announce layoffs, I think now is the time for Sun to become refocused -- and McNealy needs to emphasize that, instead of just spouting off about smart cards and how Java is going to rule the world.
My two cents...
If you are willing to go through a hefty background check and whatnot to ensure you are not associated with foriegn terrorist agencies than you can go and get the National ID CARD. You are no longer searched as heavily or treated as a terrorist. People who oppose this National ID card will be searched and questioned.
Yep, guilty until proven innocent. That's the New American Way.
I oppose giving our corporate government more ways of tracking my medical records, spending habits, and private life. I guess that makes me a potential terrorist.
Just put your thumbprint on something. Presto,
your very own barcode. Cannot be forged easily.
Unique to every individual.
PeterM
I guess Sun and Oracle want to one-up them and catalog EVERYONE. Barcodes on our necks anyone?
-- Chris Martin, System Administrator
I forgot who orginally said this (1000 apologies):
"National ID cards (in the US, replacing the mishmash of Social Security, Driver's License, Military ID, blah blah) are actually a privacy enhancing thing, if backed up by the proper regulations.
Right now, in the US, we (ie the individual) have virtually no way of tracking who is tracing us, and identity theft is difficult to trace. There are a thousand and one different places to steal access to, any one of which can be used to forge access to another. And furthermore, there is almost no way to keep track of who accesses what information.
Even if the US put in reasonable privacy laws for the current system, keeping track of all accesses to your information is problematic, at best.
I'd be all for a National ID card, should they pass reasonable privacy laws with it. And my definition of privacy laws is this: I get to control who has access to what information, I decide what information can go in the system, I decide the granularity of info given to people, I own my information, nobody can collect information about me (unless as an unidentifiable part of an aggregate) unless I explicitly permit it, and no one can share any information about me with anyone else. There would be exceptions for court-ordered disclosures for law-enforcement, but that's it.
That system would be great: it would prevent a person with a suspended driver's license in one state from getting a new one in another, while at the same time prevent company A from discovering I like Mary Typer Moore shows by my viewing habits, then selling this info to company B.
Having a properly monitored and regulated central database of personal info is far better than the completely insecure mishmash of crap we have today.
But unless they put in those restrictions, Hell No!"
"Is there any company that doesn't want to exploit a tragedy for financial gain?"
hahah. hahahahahahha. HAHAHHAHHAH! AHHHAAHHAHHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH!
no. there is no company large enough to suggest something like that that also gives a shit about humanity or safety or privacy, or anything except their christmas bonuses.
excess money makes *most* people heartless, evil, greedy and opportunistic. the current economic situation isn't helping things either - they only want more money to come in faster right now, because they see no reasonable income in the future.
they are owned by money, not the other way around. the things you own, end up owning you. example: ever seen someone who owns a ferarri not get murderously angry & violent when they see that someone has scratched their car? its not because something like that really matters, its because their self worth is enveloped entirely in their belongings.
so no, there is no large company that will not take every available opportunity to monopolize a situation that can benefit them - no matter how many people died to create that situation.
I'm not flaming, or, trolling, just stating my opinion.
"Fear nothing. Live free." John Perry Barlow
Damnit, Jim, I'm an anarchist, not a F@#$!^& doctor!
Funny isn't it ?
How would a nation dare to actualy enforce its own laws?
I'd love to not list my SSN on my SAT but I don't think "FrostyWheaton told me so" is gonna be a valid excuse. Do you have any links to back up what you say?
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Welcome to the third reich, papers please? Thank you, the gestapo will be in touch.
A lot of what I read here doesn't take into account the human factor. No matter how good of a card or system you get, people can and will always screw it up. Thats what has already happened. People don't examine ID's closely enough. People don't watch the x-ray machines closely enough. Airport personel lose their badges, etc, etc, etc.
Even if we can have a perfect, unforgeable, unique card biometrically linked for any and every security purpose, it still doesn't rule out the fact that those who have legit access can be turned or used.
Just my 2 cents.
"Of all days, the day on which one has not laughed is the most surely the one wasted." -Sebastian Roch Nicol
This is slashdot...we don't NEED to read the artivles before we talk about them...
maybe we all really do need 3 national id cards
There are millions of people whose lives are so disorganized that they won't get the ID cards or they'll lose them when they get them or they'll fail to get them renewed.
For instance, in 1993-97, 3.7 percent of drivers were unlicensed, 7.4 percent were driving on an invalid (e.g., suspended, revoked, etc.) license, and 2.7 percent were of unknown license status.
The result is that if the police have to investigate everyone they stop without a valid ID card, they will be spending thousands of useless man hours verifying the identities of non-terrorists. Possibly they will be investigating the same hopeless people over and over again.
At best, a national ID system will prove a short term impediment until the terrorists figure out a way to acquire the cards illegally.
In fact, one can imagine a large black market for ID cards that would be a further drain on the resources of the police.
I think the main objection here is loss of privacy. So let's find some other ways to protect our privacy:
From the bottom, let's declare that personal info is our property. Let's use rights management software to tag _all_ data about ourselves, so that we can follow it, so we know exactly who has it and for how long. Some of that data we ought to be able to revoke, or "license it" in such a way that it expires. If I can't copy Word and sell it to my friend, why should a business be able to do the same with my credit card purchases, or questionnaire responses. Moreover, if a police agency is monitoring or collecting data about me, I should have a right ot know this. If the FBI needs a personal ID card, let them use it for purposes of identification, and not of spying. They still gotta do the gumshoe thing for that.
From the Top. If we are giving govt. more info about us, then we need more powers to hold govt. accountable. Let's require some stronger freedom of information policies. Declassify more docs. Publicize notes and meetings. Shine a light on black budgets. Full disclosure of lobbyists' notes/itinerary. I wanna be able to download the pda and schedule for any registered lobbyist (and they damn well better be registered, tagged, collared, .. ;)). All available on the web (say, two-weeks after the fact). You guys think of some other/better ideas. There are lots of ways to improve govt. accountability.
Needless to say, we don't want oracle or MS or Sun running the show in some proprietary monopoly. This should be a non profit, fully open process.
We can make a trade. National ID card in exchange for more open governance. More accountability. If this happened, I'd personally feel a higher level of privacy than I do now.
When in doubt, have a man come through a door with a gun in his hand.
He was right when he said that we did not have any privacy left anymore. Get over it. Communism won. ;P
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Now, that's scary.. Land of the free, no less.. Osama is smiling..
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
After working with Oracle for some time, and getting tired of having to kill -9 the old jre.exe more than once a day...
Oracle is powered by Java (Sun). I don't know what kind of licensing scheme is used between Oracle and Sun, but I am sure that Sun will profit of Ellison gets his way (more licenses ==> more yachts)
But we known from many studies and long experience that you cannot be objective if you have a stake in the matter, no matter how much you try. That's why scientists conduct double-blind studies. And that's why we should scrutinize both administration policies and corporate proposals very, very carefully.
I do actually think a national ID system would actually be a good thing. But I think its purpose should only be to allow people to identify themselves reliably to other humans and to establish their residency status. As such, it should involve neither smartcards nor Java nor Oracle software. In fact, I don't think it should involve a national database at all. Rather, it should be a difficult-to-forge physical artifact with picture, name, thumbprint, and a 40 digit unique number with checksum (the length making it difficult to remember from casual observation, and to make it difficult to invent existing numbers). The number should be printed in an OCR font so that it can be read and verified, but the rest of the information on the card should be deliberately hard to capture by automatic means. Such a card could then be used to establish identity for purposes like immigration, security check-ins, financial transactions, etc. Yet it would resist the creation of a "big brother" database probably better than our current ad-hoc system based on social security numbers.
Such a system would be of no commercial value to McNealy or Ellison. Would they still support it?Well...
Oracle wants a national ID card powered by Oracle. Sun wants a national ID card powered by Java.
...and Bud wants a national ID card powered by beer. So what else is new?
Me, personally? I want a national ID card powered by my smiling face, with a $1 royalty going to me for each card.
I think y'all get the point. At any rate, one can only hope that if Bush ever holds up a card on TV, people will react the same as when Clinton held up a card on TV. Yes... here is how I intend to prevent it:
Dear Mr. Bush,
If you ever hold up a national ID card on TV, I will vote straight Democrat in the next election.
Sincerely,
Steven Marthouse
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
to a point in the not-so-distant future where your ID will be *everything*. Forgot your wallet today? Too bad; suddenly you practically cease to exist.
We're already required to present ID to write checks, buy movie tickets (rated "R" or above), and a horde of other daily tasks. How long before we'll required to present our DigID to ride the subway (just "swipe and go") or buy dinner at a restaraunt?
I don't mean to downplay the positive aspects of such a system, as it could be integrated into financial systems to make a lot of things involving purchases easier. However, even those benefits are overshadowed by serious privacy issues. Think browser cookies are evil? Wait 'till McDonald's knows what kind of car you drive, what your taste in lingerie is (sure it was for your wife.. right...
Sorry Mr. McNeally, I think I'll pay cash when possible and use my good ol' state ID for the rest.
These terrible people, taking advantage of such tragedies...
In completely unrelated break through, I will be selling white t-shirts with "Check out this shirt, I'm a real American!" written on it with black magic marker. Only 29.95.
Orders to come in anytime now.
I think there is a concept that underlies all the concerns of privacy advocates, cypherpunks, civil rights advocates, and consumer protection advocates when presented with the concept of some kind of "national identification."
Trust.
Trust that your ID won't be used to track your purchases in order to determine your buying habits, so that info can be sold to someone else, to sell to someone else, to build a huge database about the buying habits of millions including yourself, to sell to the highest bidder.
Trust that you won't have every movement scrutinized by authorities and put in a file, tagged to your ID card, because you think the death penalty is moronic, or marijuana should be legalized, or that animals have similar rights as the animal species homo sapiens, so that law enforcement can threaten you into submission by showing how closely they can watch you, or take any innocuous action and turn it into reason for denial of bail - or even a conviction - by painting a "picture" of someone "suspicious".
Trust that the people involved in administering the system won't abuse the authority given to them.
Trust that the people who provide the resources won't try to exploit that avenue of control to gain some kind of political or economic advantage.
Trust that this system is being set up for the benefit of all, instead of the benefit of a few.
Trust that the system will be transparent and fair.
Trust in something is a powerful emotion, one that can drive a person to give another some kind of power over them, in the hope that power won't be abused. Trust in government, in business, in law enforcement, in the very people handed power and authority, has been spectacularly eroded over the past century, thanks to uncountable incidents of abuse of power and control.
Trust will have to be rebuilt in a lot of people before a national ID system can be effectively put into place.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
If for no other reason than for driving home to (otherwise naively unsuspecting) people that they have no privacy and are being constantly observed. It is the governments duty to at least allow cicitzens the dignity of knowing they are being watched, data mined, profiled, and statistically reduced on a daily basis.
He's the catch, I want it tattooed right in the crack of my ass. I belive that this would be great. Think about it:
Authority Abusing Cop: "I need to see your ID tatoo son"
Me: Gulps down last spoon of Super Ass Ripper Chilli, "Alright, but you're going to have to get nice and close, there's not much light in here officer"
Best idea I've had all week.
Governments have been wanting to introduce ID cards ever since they first heard of them. They are an amazing tool, and really benefit no-one in the end except the state. To have the ID card is a Machiavellian masterstroke, and lets face it... try and find someone who really supports the idea of the nation state without having just a *little* Machaivelli in them.
The problem is, most of the citizens of the state ask the question 'How much liberty are we willing to sacrifice for safety, protection by the state?' This trade off is a question which normally comes down to some middle ground, and is answered quite culturally, as we saw with the article about CCTV in the UK, which is unlikely to get significantly off the starting blocks in the USA.
This dilemma of liberty/safety relies on a relative lack of fear on the part of the citizens to keep the ID cards and other infringements of civil liberties at bay. However, in the wake of the 11th Sept attacks, the balance has shifted, by making everyone feel that much less safe.
If the government are ever going to pull off an introduction of cards, it is whilst the right wing can sell the moderates by playing on their fear.
This debate over ID cards has nothing whatsoever to do with those attacks, it is merely a framework in which some devious Machiavellian politicians can sly through a normally unpopular idea.
Don't fall for it. Whilst paying due regard and respect to those involved in the 11th Sept attacks, and the aftermath now ensuing, please have a memory prior to that date. Remember that you would not have wanted it then, and in a few months, or a few years, or whenever some semblence of normality returns, you will not want it then either.
-- The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
It's like a Bond film or something. All he needs is a white cat and a monacle.
One thing nor mentioned so far is that even if Dubya were to succeed in specifying, developing and implementing a new US ID card (ie. succeed in managing a major IT project without cost overrun or failure to provide required functionality...), what happens to the numerous foreigners in the USA?
I'm sure that the rest of the world would probably fail to come up to the US 'standards' - would an Afghan passport be accepted as readily as a US ID card? Or a Britsh/French/Japanese passport, for that matter? (Or insert your chosen US-friendly/US-client state in that sentence).
So even if the US cards were miraculuously foolproof and unforgeable, the baddies would just start getting fake IDs from ither countries, which the US couldn't refuse without significant political and legal problems.
For example, I hold a British passport, a Swiss driving licence, and a Spanish student ID - which of these would be accepted in the Brave New World as allowing me to fly from New York to Boston?
I've got my religion. You don't need to see my identification.
Tarkwyn.
The real question that the populace needs to ask is whether or not any system of National IDs would really provide a benefit for the People in the form of Enhanced Security, while simultaneously not eroding our Freedoms. Furthermore, what will be the implications of the information that such a system provides, and what reliability do we have for the accuracy and precision of that data?
If such cards hold information on criminal record, citizenship status, and so forth, will this information be used in a discriminatory fashion? Will convicted murderer be able to board an airliner? How about someone who plead guilty to petty theft decades ago? How about people with speeding tickets? Will cards hold information on ethnic background, and if so, how will this affect racial profiling?
Furthermore, how will the data be stored? Will it all be contained on a Smart Card (easily hackable), or will it be contained in a Central Database? Who will be in charge of this Database? If this central database is hacked, aren't all records for all citizens suddenly called into question? And if this database is undetectibly hacked, how will this provide any more security than a person carrying a forged driver's license? It is doubtful that this card on it's own will be enough to provide true security. Schneier talks of a dual data system, where a user provides a password or biometric data in addition to the ID card to provide authentication. Couldn't these also be stolen or faked, perhaps not at the personal level, but also by hacking the card or database?
What about the convienience factor? Many people have said that while Americans clamor for security, the aspect of life that they're least willing to give up is convieneince. Will transmitting a query across the network for every ID card access be so painfully slow that many people will forgo its use? Will people who forget or lose their card be locked out of their daily routines until the situation is resolved? And how will foreigners deal with the lack of a National ID card? Will they be issued a temporary one upon arrival in this nation? How easy will these be to forge, and how will this affect tourism, and their opinion of "America, The Haven of Freedom and Democracy"?
I for one wonder how many of these questions will be asked by people who will decide whether or not such a system should be implemented. This is not a trivial issue, and the proper analysis of such a system will take time, time that few want to waste in this era of fast solutions and anxious precautions.
Let's face it folks; having a federally issued ID card, with your picture on it is NOT what bothers everyone. Do you think you government doesn't know you are a citizen? Do you have a passport? That's federally issued ID.
.FAA regulations clearly allow you to travel without ID.
The REAL issue is where you have to present said ID card.
I don't have to present ID to ride the bus, to buy groceries, to drive on the highway (though I do have to have my driver's license). I don't have to present ID to cross from state to state. You don't technically have to show ID to board an airplane (but good luck doing so nowadays after the sept. 11 incidents)
The issue is someone using that federal ID to track where you go, when, and how, and what you do, what you buy, etc. Isn't it?
Is it possible that the introduction of a smart card for national ID is so that they can store information to be used for profiling?
I know that's a little bit knee-jerk conspiracy theory sounding, but why else the need for the smart card... what can't the driver's licence / social security card do that facillitates the need for the extra card?
Odd, my dog has a friend named Allah...
Would be to flip a bird.. Never can resist flipping one to ATM camera.. ;)
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
After all we all know how to spot a real American. Check the clothes. Check the accent. Check the knowledge of baseball trivia.
What was the success of German spying efforts in WWII? Germans looked just like plenty of Americans; but few if any had mastery of baseball trivia. The Germans with American music trivia (particularly jazz) were generally in the German resistance. If you go far enough into our trivia, it conquers your mind and there's no need for us to worry about you.
The only function served by ID cards would be they would allow certain technical citizens to be granted certain privileges, when under present circumstances they will be prone to intense interrogation for not bearing the obvious signs of being, in a cultural sense, citizens. Why screw with the status quo on this one, when it favors most of us here?
Altho it would be useful, in considering a new relationship, to have full access not just to the prospective other's ID card, but also the EGO card and the SUPER-EGO card. If the SUPER-EGO resembles any of several nasty old Middle-Eastern deities, report this to local law enforcement.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Somehow, selling these national ID cards seems like selling freshmen elevator passes
First.. in US airports, aside form any new legislation just up because of the Sept. 11 events, it is still legal to fly without presenting ID. The party line at check-in counters is a lie: they will happily tell you 'FAA regulations require us to ask for ID', but this is patently false. FAA regulations clearly state that it is permissible to fly without proper verifiable ID so long as they either a) make a thorough check of your baggage or b) ensure your baggage only goes onboard if you yourself are onboard. Remove it from the plane if you aren't onboard at takeoff. In fact, it may be illegal to refuse to let someone board a plane without ID. The reason the airlines don't tell you this? Because.. they want to enforce their STUPID non-transeferable tickets. Cancelled your plans? wanna give your expensive ticket to someone else? Too bad. That is evil.
As for the SIN. IT is illegal for anyone but the Government to REQUIRE you to present your SIN. The catch is.. you are not required to give it out to anyone but the government. You can always request an 'alternate' id number for credit checks and such.
Unversal ID cards aren't scary.. but I think the reason oracle & sun are involving themselves is because they are talking about a national ID 'system' as opposed to just cards. National ID cards are actually a good idea... I don't have a problem. I happily show my passport for ID all the time now anyway.
First of all, Sun and Oracle are only trying to get their name out. Sure they know there is some profit to gain from this, but they can also test and stress their products with this and at the same time provide a system to the US people that works.
ID Cards should not be needed when purchasing goods, riding a bus, getting a taxi, or whatnot. ID Cards should be used for things like trains and airplanes, maybe boats too if you think about cruise ships. The only thing that should be on these cards is your picture, full name, birthday, and city of residence. It does not need your ethnic background or religion.
I am not American though, I am Canadian. If they introduce something similar to what is being introduced into the United States, I'd glady go along with it.
Even if he wasn't charging for the service, what do you think the PR is worth being able to say "The official database of the safe America". It's a business decision.
While we're at it, why don't we confiscate all guns and lock up dissenters too? Nothing you have described is even fscking legal!
And why do you assume that it's just those 'middle-eastern' people who are a threat to our nation? Could english speaking anti-government wackos also be a threat? How about demagogues who stir up public anger to further their power mongering? Remember 99 Luftballons? "Riefen: Krieg und wollten Macht" Thank you for playing into their hands.
The Arabs still remember when they had a nation that streched from Java to Gibralter. They remember the way white english speaking people screwed them over in the crusades, 1920 and 1948. If we think it's wrong for "them" to hate "us" just because we resemble the people who fscked them over, why are you trying to do the same thing?
Racial profiling is racial profiling no matter how you describe it. It was wrong when NJ cops did it, it was wrong when the NSDAP did it, it is still wrong and will remain WRONG!
"The conduct of neither [party], if strictly examined, will be irreproachable." -Elizabeth Bennet
Sign me up, but I want full medical/dental coverage and guaranteed employment in whatever field I'm competant in, with an option for self employment.
This issue will not be decided by what is consitutional, or even what make sense. It will be decided by the level of disruption that occurs in our country in the near future, and the level of the hysterical reaction by each and every one of us.
Let's face it. A more comprehensive national id system will not prevent atrocities like 9/11 from happening again, but it might make it a bit more difficult. Neither will it turn this country in to the totalitarian vision of 1984, but the possibility of abuse is enormous. If we allow such a system, who will see that our rights are not trampled? Who will guarantee the validity of the id's? Can we trust the government and/or corporations to keep our best interests at heart?
It come down do this:What is more important, our personal freedoms or a measure of security?
I don't know the 'right' answer to that question or even if such a thing even exsists. Certainly we need to make every provision to prevent such an atrocity from happening in the future, but I'm not so sure that yet another form of identification would accomplish that goal.
The exploitation of the WTC attacks and the aftermath for gain both political and monetary is frankly pretty disgusting. The networks have done it since minute 1, The T-Shirts and baseball caps in stores since day 2 or 3, the covers of magazines, newspapers, the endless story after story of the hardship and painthis all caused.
It truly is terrible. I understand things need to be reported, people need to be made aware, yes its nice to sell things and donate the money to the cause of helping and cleaning up etc. But what of the things that are for profit?
Conspiracy alert?
While I don't think our Government staged the WTC attacks, I do think the biggest 'corporation' that has exploited the situation for both monetary/political gain has been the current administration. It is shameless truthfully: they have introduced radical legislation(covered here), got the wheels of war rolling (the whole gang in charge right now is a who's who of the military industrial complex), and the possibility of the oil connection in the region:
UNOCAL testimony on needing gov support in Afghan region to stabalise for energy plans
Energy Information Administration prospectus on Regions Energy
as well as the total destruction of critical analysis of the job the administration is doing (How can you condemn the pres in this hard time?) by the press , the supposed complete reversal of approval ratings Worldwide, despite the questionable actions, the complete "fsck you" attitude towards allies and UN, has led me to believe that they have taken this ball and run with it.
Off the soapbox and back to the topic. When a company like Sun or Oracle or anyone of that magnitude chimes in ready and willing to go forth with some plan that makes them look good and allows them to profit off of these insane times we are living in makes me really not think to much of the company, nor do I want to have anything to do with them.
I had an idea recently regarding how to implement a national identification card. It wouldn't, in and of itself, prevent people getting on planes and killing everyone, but it would be a very good thing, and here's why.
The card is a smartcard card, with embedded microchip. On the chip is encoded your photograph, unencrypted, and your address, phone number, and a uniquely identifiable number (NOT your social security/social insurance), which are encrypted according to a key based on your fingerprint. Thus, anyone can get your picture from the card merely by putting it into an appropriate card reader, but access to your address, citizen ID number (CID), and so on requires your thumb(index finger,middle finger)print to be accessed.
This allows people to confirm that you are (or look like) who your card says you are without your fingerprint.
When you go into a Blockbuster to get a membership (blockbuster is a bad example because it's international, but bear with me), they take your information, assign you a membership number, and give you a plastic card with a barcode on it. With this national ID card, you would (at the final point in your membership sign-up) insert the card into a card reader that they have, scan in your thumbprint to authenticate, and they would then create your information in the database. The difference, though, is that they would not have to ask you for proof of address, and you would not have to dictate your address or phone number. Also, they would not have to assign you a member number, as your CID could be used (or merely stored and referenced) as your member number in the database.
Privacy whiners could note that Blockbuster does not, with this ID card, know anything more or less than they did before.
The key to this system is that you do not have a centralized database controlled by the government that stores your credit card information, video rental information, and air miles. You do not have all relevant information stored on the card so that anyone can pull it off the card, and the information, if your card is lost, is irretrievable, though it is easy to locate the owner in a crowd or a restaurant, since the picture is printed and stored on the card.
Every store needs their own database, as they do now, so the government can no easier 'track you' than they can now. The government's database would be easily integrated amongst itself (CSIS/RCMP/local police/Immigration Canada could share/cross-access databases), and make working together easier.
Thus, while not a safety measure in and of itself, this card would not stop anything, security officials at airports could integrate their check-in scanners with all of the above agencies (or their local counterparts, for Americans, Britons, etc), and any national red flags would be raised, and the person would be told that there was a problem with their card, and could they please wait a moment.
The card would be free to any citizen/landed immigrant, and a minimal charge ($5? $10? Cost of fabrication) would be asked of any non-citizen resident (students, foreign nationals, diplomats). Anyone not posessing a card would be ineligable for most services at most institutions.
(Worried about 'manditory ID'? Try getting a bank account without a driver's license, or a passport without a birth certificate, or even a Blockbuster card without at least an addressed letter)
The idea certainly isn't perfeclty thought out, but I think it's pretty well laid out. I wish Canada WOULD do something like this, because as a non-driving individual who gets little mail and doesn't posess a credit card, the only ID I have is a two-year old learner's license from a different province, and a Social Insurance Card that has only my name and a number on it.
--Dan
Having a unique ID number which is accessible to anyone permits cross-correlating databases and other methods of mining data and constructing profiles of people. Also, if there was a bar code or similar machine-readable encoding of the number on the ID card, then soon anyone (airline, dentist, grocery store, border guard, building security) would start swiping the card and recording our movements and activities in a way that would be very easy to combine in giant databases.
You described my credit cards and my social security number. If you work in the United States you should have a social security number. If you don't then you're probably working here illegally. We might as well just take the next step and have a national ID card that uses your SSN since everyone probably memorized it already anyway.
I don't know much on the specifics of this "Liberty Alliance Project" nor do I work for Sun,
.NET, Sun decided to start marketing this as some form of web authentication. . . .
however this seems to be another case of the infamous Sun vaporware that does everything for everyone.
If I remember correctly, this started off as a PCMCIA card that you slap into any running SunRay (dumb graphics terminal) and you're instantly logged in.
The idea was that you have all your apps run on a large E10k run by an ISP or "appication service provider" and you slap your PCMCIA card into the SunRay at your house and open StarOffice, per say. Then you leave StarOffice open, pull your card, the screen gets locked and then you go to work and slap your PCMCIA card into your SunRay there and voila! StarOffice and the document you were working on is now right in front of you. The reason for this, of course, is that you're app never stopped running -- it was on the E10k and the DISPLAY changed with the slip of your PCMCIA card.
Later, when MS introduced
Now that Sep. 11th happened, it's a national ID.
Remember Jini? Sun said that it was going to change the world and connect everything from your toaster to your car to your computer? That was a huge VAT of vaporware that was simply a collection of protocols (Sun would have you believe that it was a HW/SW solution for everything).
Java was supposed to change everything, too. It was not vaporware, however because of browser incompatability most people resort to server-side Java (which defeats the purpose of cross-platform -- YOU KNOW THE PPLATFORM OF YOUR SERVER!) and does not even come close o solving all the problems that Sun claimed in practice.
The "vaporware" mentality of selling somthing very simple to everyone in the planet telling them that it's going to fix all thier problems has killed much of Sun's credability. It worked with Java, but people know better now and they should cut this crap before no one listens to thier marketing at all.
It is amazing that you would say that the Arabs are attacking us because we "resemble" the people that screwed them over. Maybe it is because there are no real major Arabic democracies in the world, and those that say they are are simply faking it... Perhaps they have a ruling class that ALLOWS "those white guys" to screw them over at the benefit of the ruling class. It is a technique that has been used for ages. "DON'T screw the king for the problems he made over money... screw the advisor and his partners." "White guys" have made money in that region and done unethical things. So have the Japanese manufacturers in the USA. Get used to it. They don't have Democracies. This is where their problems lie. This is all political, and trying to incite violence and a Muslim uprising world wide. So what if a nation was screwed. Trying to make a genocidal run at World War Three is way out of the ethical ballpark on any ten nations getting screwed.
Bad practices or whatever, you can't justify the suicide killings of SIX THOUSAND PEOPLE no matter what you say. Keep in mind that this man hates the whole world.
``Let me ask you. There are two different airlines. Airline A says before you board that airplane you prove you are who you say you are. Airline B, no problem. Anyone who wants the price of a ticket, they can go on that airline. Which airplane do you get on?''
I think this is a great, free-markety solution, no? Ellison, McNealy, and all the paranoids who want to be tagged, identified, background-checked, searched, folded, spindled, and/or mutilated can sign up for a authoritative ID card and go on airline A (and preferably pay for said security with their tickets); those of us who think the convenience of a (hopefully cheaper) no questions-asked cash ticket is worth sacrificing the illusion of security can fly airline B, arrive 15 minutes before takeoff and hop on a plane to wherever we're going like the daring free risk-takers we are.
Nah, they would get licences, at least then we couldnt laugh at Braille on drive-up ATMs.
The world is an unsafe place, that was true even before the attacks. If someone wants to kill someone people bad enough he's going to get me no matter what I do. Yes, we should take precautions but let's not get carried away here.
McNealy says ``I'm tired of the outrage. If you get on a plane, I want to know who you are. If you rent a crop duster, I want to know who you are,''
He's going for the knee jerk reaction here. Maybe he should also propose that the card have an American flag on them.
I wouldn't worry about air travel nowadays, if I had a reason to travel I wouldn't hesitate in the least. If I had the money I would take my family to Disney World now. The news footage I saw with no lines looks a lot better than the last time I was there.
The unthinkable was done, it shocked everyone, but now the element of surprise is gone. Terrorists aren't going to use a commercial plane anymore than the Japenese were going to come back to Pearl Harbor a month later.
I crop duster, why worry about that, a crackpot a few years ago only needed a rental truck. He could have just as easily stolen a truck one night and carried the attack out the next morning. There's no limit to the evil things some people are capable of if they are determined. I'm sure they'll come up with something just as evil and unexpected.
How about confidentiality of the card information? I'm sure you wouldn't have to physically present you card for every transaction you want to do. Are they going to tie all of my accounts into one card? Oh, that would be great, now if I call an order into one unscrupulous place, I'm locked out of all my accounts until the banks straighten it out.
I mean I'm all for all of these companies proposing these things, the more companies involved touting their own standard the longer it will take for someone to agree on a standard. As long as each individual company can buy enough poliiticians I mean.
I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people. - Jack Handey
I think one major issue is missed: none of the damn terrorists were usa citizens. NONE. Who freaking cares about the national IDs? I'm not a usa citizen [although I live there], and I can present any ID that I wish.
So my question is, how will this matter to the overall security?
--- d'oh
Id card? How archaic.
How about everyone get tatooed from birth with a barcode on the back of each hand and across the forehead. Us old timers can get tatooed the next time we go to renew our driver's licence.
Every piece of data and credit information can then be linked to that code! Imagine the convenience. Wanna buy some groceries and put it on the visa? swipe the head. The liquor store cashier doesn't believe you're old enough to buy beer? swipe the left hand. Oops! lost your left hand playing with the buzz-saw? That's ok, swipe the right hand.
Finally, my dreams are coming closer to reality. Damn though, I shoulda patented the idea first.
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is - it's not like we're not all "numbered" anyway (SSN, SIN). An "ID card" just puts a face on it, that's all.
BTW: This is kinda relevant: A while ago the Canadian government had tried to centralize all the gov't held data on all its citizens in one central database. Huge storm of controversy erupted and the government was forced to disband the system (or so we're told). At the time the biggest concern wasn't so much "big brother" but rather that "a hacker" could break into ONE computer and get EVERYTHING on any given person (as opposed to having to break into a half dozen system to get the same data). I suspect a national ID card would somehow necessitate or precipitate just such a central repository though.
He's just trying to get the government to buy some Sun Fire 15K servers.
-Jon
We cannot not let petty issues like "freedom" stand in the way of protecting American ideals.
this is my sig.
Government suggests National ID card, complete with DNA: "No, not a chance, keep away from me Big Brother!"
Ellison suggests National ID card, tracked in an national Oracle DB: "No! What are you, son kind of nut? This isn't Japan, buddy!"
McNealy suggests National ID card, powered by Java: "No! Now go away and stop trying to oppress me!"
However...
Microsoft suggests a National ID card, powered by WindowsID: "Gee, you really think that's a good idea, huh? Well, OK, if the world's richest man says it's really for our own good, I'll go along."
Then, from across the ocean, the people of France hear a loud, collective "Moo"
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I forgot where I read it, probably on The Onion, they should only let born again people fly and have people submit to baptisms before boarding the planes.
'Same speed C but faster'
I call for RMS and Eric Raymond to join forces and create an OpenSource ID card - The APIs would be known to everyone, you would know exactly what's on your card and in the database at all times, everyone could setup their own ID servers and alter their cards when needed.
Remember Lexington Green!
First I can't get over the naivete of some people in here. I was trying to read through all the comments before posting, but I hit a trough of posts indicating that people want to select *precisely* what is listed on their report, *precisely* who can access the report, and other crap. I know that there are people here who have had to deal with identity theft, and that shit must be pretty sobering. But seriously people, you need to let go of your pipe dreams.
I recently picked up several prescriptions for recovering from surgery, and when I logged into Eckerd.com (a pharmacy), my "customized" home page featured a section on how much I could have saved if I had purchased my recent prescriptions from them. WHAT??!?! How the FRIG did you get that info, and what the hell are you doing displaying it on an unencrypted web page? Boy was I pissed about that. But WTF can I do? By the time I was pissed it was already done. And what am I going to do? Write my fucking CONGRESSMAN? Please. Arlen Fucking Specter is my asshole in Washington.
Anyway, my thought on how to make the ID card uncrackable would be to use a biometric as an encryption key against the owner's SSN. How many unique points can you get off an iris? I know thumbprints may occasionally be unavailable, but how many people have had *both* eyes removed? I'm guessing far fewer. Even with only 512 bits generated by an iris, that would never be stored anywhere.
I can see imaging units the size of today's supermarket debit/credit card scanners with a card slot. Insert your ID card, put your chin in the dimple, and the reader certifies your identity by decrypting a GPG'd copy of your SSN on the card using your iris as the key. I would think that would be pretty impossible to fake.
Intelligent Life on Earth
In the darkest 1950s Cold War hysteria, when U.S. Sen. Joe McCarthy, R-Wi., was demanding that Congress toss aside the Constitution in order to hunt down the agents of his "red menace," a move was made by the Republican attorney general of the United States to expand the the use of information gathered through wiretapping in cases of espionage and sabotage. The proposal required Senate approval, which seemed assured as the shadow of McCarthyism hung heavy over the Capitol.
One senator, Wayne Morse, a Republican senator from the state of Oregon, stood alone in opposition to increased use of wiretaps on the phone lines of those suspected of subversion. Wiretapping phones was, Morse said, "a police state tactic." When the attorney general pressed his case before the Senate, Morse countered that, "I am shocked that an attorney general of the United States should believe Gestapo methods are needed in detecting Gestapo elements."
At every turn, and at considerable political cost, the Oregon senator fought the wiretapping plan. And his relentless defense of the right to privacy paid off. As Morse's biographer, Mason Drukman, recalls, "the bill ultimately died in the Judiciary Committee, one of the few measures of its kind to fail during the McCarthy era."
Morse's battle against the wiretapping scheme was recalled this week when, in an equally hysterical moment, the Senate was again asked to massively increase the ability of a Republican attorney general to wiretap phones -- and, now, Internet communications. Again, one senator stood up to the rush to rip of the Constitution.
U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold's courageous moves to challenge the most irresponsible and unnecessary components of Attorney General John Ashcroft's "anti-terrorism" agenda won him few friends in the Senate. The Wisconsin Democrat broke not just with Republicans but with the overwhelming majority of fellow Senate Democrats -- who were willing to sacrifice fundamental rights on the altar of Ashcroft's ambition.
Ashcroft and his Senate allies have been promoting a grab bag of police-state proposals that will do little to reduce the threat of terrorism, while doing much to increase the threat to civil liberties. In addition to seeking permission to conduct "roving wiretaps," the Ashcroft proposal was written to permit greatly expanded computer surveillance, and to permit government agents to secretly search private homes.
read more: http://www.thenation.com/thebeat/
I won't use open source software because it's inherently better. It isn't. I won't use it because it's morally better. It isn't. But I also won't use commercial software and hardware produced by companies who think their role in the world is not to produce products and services which fulfill my needs, but to twist the politial world into an image which furthers their ends, or is tailored to their personal political agendas or beliefs.
Put simply, and excuse me for being a bit annoyed at the moment, if you want my business, build a good box, write quality software, and shut your mouth. I resent you using the soapbox of your position in the industry, which you have ONLY because I and people like me buy your products, to promote your political agenda.
a poem by Drew
--///--
Ellison's motives come from below.
Look in his eyes. What do they show?
You may think that smile is for the stockholders,
but his home is Hades, where all evil smoulders.
His Chief DBA is the Dark Prince of Lies,
His unholy power is version 9i.
You thought that this baby ate up RAM before?
For version 9i, you'll buy six times more!
What violence will come of these columns and rows?
SQL*plus is the reaper of souls!
To commit is sure folly; to roll-back, calamity.
A cartesian join will doom all of humanity!
Constraints are forged of titanium chains,
and triggers are hardwired into your brain.
A single long int marks your identity --
The mark of the beast is a primary key.
The language of Satan? PL/SQL --
How else would he store his procedures in Hell?
You'll live in dread fear of the keyword DELETE.
The mark of the beast is a primary key.
Oracle 9i is a harbinger of Dark!
(But I cannot say more; nor publish benchmarks.)
But you value your soul, so my words you will heed:
The mark of the beast is a primary key.
--///--
Thank you.
The scheme was set up to get around the teenage drinkers in hotels, even though they're 18, not having a licence.
OS/2 - because choice is a terrible thing to waste.
In Germany there is a need to carry ID at all times. Also if you move you have to register with the police within 2 weeks or be fined. And foreigners will need this registration to, e.g., get a bank account. If you take into account that wages will almost always be paid to a bank account and not as cash or check, this creates a pretty good facility to track people with no outside (cash!) funding.
These measures where introduced to find domestic terrorists that want to survive their acts of terror and it does help to a certain extend. It makes it also more difficult for people wanted by the police to hide. However it does only help against terrorists that stay in the county for a longer time and are active for some time.
It does not help to find one-time terrorists. It does not help to identify terrorists that have not done anything wrong yet. It does not help to find terrorists that have strong support from the population (a.k.a. freedom fighters). All it does is to significantly improve the chances of identifying a terrorist that moves around and strikes multiple times. That was enough reason to introduce it, and I believe it has actually helped somewhat to bring about the end of the Red Army Fraction. At least they had be far more careful and spend more effort on hiding and less on doing terrorism.
On the other hand it provides the gouvernment with a possibility to track its citizens. That is also a risk. And the worst kind of terrorism is that done by a totalitarian gouvernment against its citizens. So some balance has to be found.
One thing done in Germany in the past was to restrict access to and use of the collected data.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted and ignored otherwise.
Suggesting this is flat out unfair. The kind folks at Oracle offered their software for free. I'm not sure what McNealy is calling for, but he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to do such a thing. I could be wrong though.
Why don't we just get the guys who tattooed the jews in Nazi Germany to run our national ID program? They seemed to be effective.
why fake one when it's easy enough to steal. If the quick check criteria is visual appearance you simply find someone who has the same general appearance as you and steal their ID. The majority of the time you won't even be asked for any proof of your existence and it will be business as usual. IE when was the last time someone checked your signature or ID when you used a credit card.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
It's just sad to know that the world that we have all become so accustomed to will now be changing and changing rapidly. Two months ago, people would be in an uproar if there were military guards at local airports or even train stations. But now, they are just common in a number of major cities. Two months ago, we would be in an uproar if a certain website stores one tiny bit of information about you, but now there are talks about carrying National ID cards.
Ladies and gents, I think it's time that we must get used to the fact that the freedom that we enjoyed months ago will now be slowly erroding.
On another note, back in the early 90s, NJ DMV (Motor Vehicles) was talking about creating a standardize drivers license with Social Security Card, Medical Insurance and others... This went through the state legistlature and was batted down because of they feared that they were intruding too much on the rights of the individuals.
My two cents is that..yes things must change. But we mustn't let the recent events cloud our visions of how the government is slowly infringing on the freedom of the people. Once they do this, the terrorist have won their war.
_______________________________
"I'm not Conceited...I'm just a realist..."
Everyone can just tell me their name for the low price of $5 each! It's perfect! I'll remmember, I swear!
Any talk of cards, numbers or biometrics (retina, facial recog) is bullshit. True identity security can only be implemented by a global org that would uniquely identify individuals according to nationality by way of a permanent ID method that would KILL you if altered or removed. Only then will you know who your neighbour is.
So to anyone wishing for true identity security, consider what your life will be like when the Central Repository crashes and you are no longer in the database. Oops, you never existed. You are now an identity Nomad. Have a Nice Day.
Could backfire, though.
What if the project doesn't work for whatever reason? What happens when another tragedy occurs and "Well, he had the ID from that Sun company."
Probably as large a down-side as an up-side from the public relations point of view. However, there is likely to be a way to wring a lucrative consulting fee out of this, "donation" or no "donation". At the least, there would be a helluva tax write-off to be had.
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
The REAL issue is where you have to present said ID card.
This is absolutely correct. During the Soviet rule national ID had to be carried all the time and presented virtually everywhere. Airline? Show your ID. Check into a hotel? Show your ID. No, you can't check in with that lady because the ID does not identify her as your wife (I am serious, that's how it worked). Want to apply for a job? Show ID. No, you can't have the job because your address of residence is listed in another town. The ID had to be updated if you changed apartments.
Are you guys ready to give up that much of your freedom?
In the present day Russia the ID turned into a useless Soviet relic which solves no problems. It just keeps a few beaurocrats from looking for a new job. It's just funny to see how much things have changed in the last 10 years.
And then Mr. Joseph P. Terrorist ("Joe" to his friends) forges or steals himself a card and climbs onboard the plane with a bazooka in his hand-carry.
What if his forged card has MY name on it?
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
A related issue is whether such cards are best as national. However secure it may be, if it is forged or broken into and there is only one such thing to forge or break into, that's it, you're in totally.
Sure, digital techniques might improve any given security check but sacrificing many such checks (one for American Express, a different one for Visa, a different one for your frequent flier card, a different one for your driver's license, and so on) for one centralized check will not improve security. At least with 37 different ID cards, there are 37 chances for the terrorist to make an error, and even 37 chances for him to be caught sweating and looking shifty or worried. Making a national ID is likely to lead to people phasing out other checks (just as ubiquitous use of the social security number has begun to do), and that can only be bad...
Kent M Pitman
Philosopher, Technologist, Writer
It did not stop terrorists from blowing two buildings into pieces.
You get passport here at 16 and you have to show it to patrols (at least in Moscow), you have to provide its number when you buy or sell car, rent a hotel room, get hired, etc, etc.
What do you do with those individuals (of which I am one myself) who refuse to be photographed for an ID card? Many states issue non-photo licenses for those with religious objections. (2 states issue non-photo licenses for anyone.)
MacNealy says: "I'm tired of the outrage. If you get on a plane, I want to know who you are. If you rent a crop duster, I want to know who you are."
Well, tough shit, Scott. I don't give a flying fuck what you demand. I'm an American citizen, and I don't have to prove it to you, or Ellison, or any other nosy bastard who wants to make a billion dollars on tools for totalitarians. If you're afraid of me, carry a gun.
When the people of this country elect a self-serving marketing dink like you to some responsible position, then your demands carry some weight. Until then, you can go fuck yourself.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The card use option. (30k per pocket)
The internet option (250000k, if you want to show the card to a representative of an entity that runs a website)
A backup license for your card data (it's hefty with 490k, but you need it. Since you're a terrorist, when you lose your data)
documentation (10k, per pocket + 25 k flat for the internet option) and
maintenance fee 220k per year, flat.
If yoy want the card in a color of choice, that's $15 extra...
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
If I was required to have a national ID that linked me to all of my personal records and history I would move to Brainainia. To think someone might think to impliment such a thing in the name of social security....well I guess it's time to pack and get my shots.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
which reminds me of something that was overheard at a pedestrian light a good while ago ... when the lights changed and started to beep, one woman turned to the person beside her and asked "why do all the lights here make that beeping noise?" , ... to which she replied in amazement,
She was then informed that the beeping was so blind people would know when the lights had changed
"Wow!, In America we dont let the blind drive!"...
yep, what do you expect from a guy that goes whining to the govt when his competor whups on him....
i can't even stand to look at that guy... he looks almost as evil as, as.... tony blair, the mad bomber of britain.....
i have this feeling tho, most slashdoters (hating MS so bad) don't see the relation between getting the govt to attack your competitors and the govt forcing everyone of its citizens to carry an id card....
its all part of the same industirio-governmental access that people think is there to protect them, but is actually there to stifle competition ( in the name of fairness)
ah, cripes, dont get me started
grrrrrr
Let's teach these pretty-boy billionaires a lesson. Boycott Oracle, use Postgres SQL. Boycott Sun, go for Linux boxen.
don't fuck with the geeks. especially if you are one of our own... it's an honor thing.
Don't blame me - I voted for Howard Dean. http://dean2004.blogspot.com
At least Microsoft hasn't tried to link thier Passport technology in with this national ID card
Well, most likely Bill G will get the monopoly on this whole shooting match. Great. Now my ID card will Blue Screen when I move the mouse after inserting the CD. Or is that when I fish it out after drinking a quart of milk? Something like that...
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
The One Sure Thing is that terrorists and many other criminals will have all their papers in order. Disorganized people like me will be in trouble. So it's about controlling and tracking people, not preventing anything.
This whole bombing thing has exposed many myths, if you are willing to look. For example: "the Department of Defense is all about Defending America." Well, folks, it _isn't_, because we had to create a Department of Homeland Defense. Apparently, homeland defense doesn't fall in the jurisdiction of the DoD. Incidentally, it used to be called the War Department.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. My job is developing and maintaining a database engine as part of the head end of one of my companies products. One of my first thoughts when I heard about the national ID card plan was "I could track them all in real time." It struck me as a technical problem, only later did I even consider the rights violations.
So Sun and Oracle are willing to put up all this technology and infrastructure, get hundreds of government employees to run the systems and offices, and there will be no cost to me? Excuse me while I go laugh myself into a coma.
You want me to pay for it? Get real!
Digitalman
A database, Oracle rarely runs in under 512MB RAM (it needs it for its JVM, too), and don't forget the disk drive to take the GBytes of code bloat that Oracle sells as a product..
And we have a "Really Smart Card(tm)" that probably weights a couple of pounds, runs on two car batteries for about 2 or 3 days and has all the usefulness of a... dead dog.
I don't want no stinking Sun/Oracle solution, it's no solution, it's the problem.
I know for a fact that no one will read this, since I am replying to late. :-)
I think that the people on slashdot is very worried about national IDs but they are certanly forgetting about much more serious things that the bush goverment wants to push throught the throats of the americans and in some case the world citizens. Lost of privacy over phones and email, the allowance to accept confessions gotten with the use of torture (unless this torture was made in american soil). All of these were in the anti-terrorism act that bush proposed in the american congress.
[]'s Victor Bogado da Silva Lins
^[:wq
Wrong, companies never suffer from negative press unless the stock is so weakened that some other company is able to buy it. That Exxon stock is worth 4 times what it was worth ten years ago despite, supposedly, paying a 1 bil fine. Union Carbide doesn't exist anymore, but all of its products and manufacturing now belong to Dow. I bet the managers in charge of Bhopal are still doing whatever it is that managers do...
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
And didn't each and every one of the hijackers present valid ID?
How long did it take them to identify every hijacker? Three days? Do we really think it actually took them that long, that they didn't just wait that long to announce it?
Sun: Well, we think everyone should have an ID card.
Thinker: Everyone does.
Sun: Well, it doesn't have Java.
Stupid Pol: Java is good, right? The people like Java? It's like coffee, people love coffee. I'm going to vote for this coffee card, people carry around coffee cards all the time, they get free coffee. Who wouldn't support that!?
My Karma was at 49, then they switched to words. All that work for nothing!
Like most Europeans I have a (mandatory) national - in my case German - I.D., and up to this point I do not feel spied on or deprived of any kind of liberty.
;)
In the U.S., the attitude towards a national I.D. seems to range from scepticism to demonization to outright paranoia.
This is an honest question, not trying to make anyone angry: What's the big deal? How does a national ID infringe on liberties?
Alex
P.S.: If you would like to tell me that Europe is already under the control of Martians/Illuminati/New World Order/Jews/Bilderbergs etc.: Please don't. In that case, I would like to stay ignorant and cheerful
Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder
I use M$ as an example, because the public's generally very willing acceptance of whatever rotten schemes they try to pull off with each release of Windows, probably because the public couldn't be bothered with technical details (which really aren't so technical, but are disguised as such to discourage anyone looking into them, clever, eh?) I think if there's one private company capable of pulling this off it would be them. Then every couple of years they'd announce an upgrade to your ID card and you'd have to fork over some money...
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
We really don't need another form of identification. We have enough. The only ones that will benefit from this will be the corporations. That's why they are the ones pushing so hard for it.
/.? A.C. of course.) You think you have no privacy now? Just wait until a national identity card is mandated and the government and corporations can keep a tab of every single thing that you do. You think that's bad? Just wait until they mandate that some mark be put on your body in order for you to buy or sell anything. Only then will you understand what it means to be persecuted. You supposedly have a democratic republic or whatever so right now, you supposedly have the ability to fight these things before they become law. Don't fail to do so. Protect your privacy. Don't be complacent.
A corporation is an entity that exists solely for the purpose of making money, not for any imaginably virtuous or socially caring reason. They do not care in the least for you. Any dealing they have with you is for the purpose of using you to attain greater profit and power.
Security is important, but so also are privacy and anonymity. (Afterall, what do you think is the single most important account on
Rough times are ahead. A word is enough for the wise. Beware of the Mark of the Beast.
An internal passport is the tool of a repressive regime. Stalin introduced them to Russian and they're still using them.
I never thought I'd ever agree with Texas Republicans about anything.
Not everyone drives. Not even in the motor-happy US.
If an ID card is to be had, why not base it on passports? Kill two birds with one stone.
My new license has a magnetic stripe on it and a bar-code, how much more do they need? Military ID's have the whole obverse side covered with 2-D 'puter code. If they are not using this now, why complicate it even more with a new system. Even if the contained data is encrypted, it my data and therefore unique, recordable and traceable.
What we don't need is an other level of beauacracy on top of what's already there, we need to actualy use what we have now enough to judge if a slight modification might be needed. Coordinate state drivers licenses should be enough. Maybe tighten up what documentation you need to get a license or state ID a little.
Oh by the way, if you have a murder warrant out for someone do you want the poor clerk at the Sec of States branch to freak out when she sees it; or say "It'll be mailed to this address in about ten days"? Mike Davis, spokesman for the Baltimore County Executive Office doesn't have a clue as to what deep inside the State's database when an arrest warrarnt flag trigger's a proceedure (actualy I don't either, but at least I'm not pretending to) Isn't it easier for a trained cop to stake out a mail box than to scrape a clerks brains off the wall?
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Most of those arrest warrents are for people who haven't paid traffic tickets, or who have skipped jury duty! For that, they can be arrested and forced to pay fines, but it's just not worth the government's time to track them down. They'll just wait until the next time they happen to get pulled over for a broken tail light or something.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Do you really believe that the current list of features and uses would be permanent?
Even if they wrote limitations into the original law, they would pass a subsequent law that altered it. More likely, however, they would pass the implementation details to an appointed committee. And those would turn out to be malleable, and unchallengable.
This is a bad idea. All it does is facillitate the centralization of power. It's quite unlikely to provide much protection, and even if it did the cost would be horrendous.
This is a good reason to boycott Oracle. This is a good reason to replace existing Oracle installations with something else.
We don't need to support anyone who would recommend a plan like that.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Linking driver's license data between states does not make for a national ID card. You are not required to get a driver's license, nor are you required to get a walker's ID. You are not required to get any sort of ID right now, and that's the way it should stay.
It is a common practice to revoke the passports of US Citizens who are believed to be engaged in unsavory activity outside of US borders. For instance, if you have dual nationality and are discovered running around the Cayman islands doing a lot of banking, you might find your ability to return to the US hampered. As far as I know, this can be done with no notification or trial.
So the question is, is this ID going to be viewed as a basic right of citizenship, or are there going to be (similar) cases where it could be withheld, revoked or suspended?
...here comes the Microsoft trashing.
<yawn>
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
I was listening to this idea on TV -- at first, I was really skeptical. I mean, making US citizens carry around ID cards that they have to have with them at all times! That's like a nazi/communist thing.
But, ID cards as proposed would be voluntary for registered US citizens. That is, you and I, as US citizens, can choose to have an ID card or not to have one. However, they would be mandatory for any aliens/foreign visitors to the US. That is, someone coming from would have to have an ID card. This is OK. After all, these people are not US citizens. The United States is not responsible for upholding the "rights" of anyone other than US citizens.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Quiz them a little and they'd start talking about how aliens took Rosie O'Donnell's baby, and you'd be hard-pressed to believe they weren't true Americans!!
Satan still undecided on 'best technology'
eh, someone was gonna do it.
your jesus is another mans xebu. chew on that hypocrites.
How about voluntary (and strictly volutary, not fake volutary like not required to give your SSN, yeah right) for citizens, and mandatory for foriegners.
Right now the US has one of the most open and insecure immigration policies in the world. Canada's is worse (claiming asylum is an automatic in), but the minor barriers to entry the US puts up is hardly better than nothing at all.
Yes, there is the threat of domestic terrorism. However, that is currently very low. The militia movement is nearly dead, and the few remainding threats are under close surviellence already. The threat of random law-abiding citizens conducting an act of terrorism without displaying very prominent warning signs (ie joining one of said militias) ahead of time is nearly zero. Especially now, the threat that is real is from outside.
Now, you might wonder how this will help. Well, if you put checks in place to ensure that people acquiring other forms of ID (drivers licences) are run through to make sure they aren't in the foriegn system, one can prevent them from getting other authentic ID's with fake information. Mark those other ID's to indicate the national ID must also be offered. Yes, it doesn't solve the problem of counterfeit ID's, but it's better the other proposals. Well, I think so. What to all 'yall think?
i thought this social experiment had been crib smothered with the soviets, and the nazi's. i guess not.
does anyone know if Spandow Prison is being 'refurbished'?
Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
In related news, the Canadian government has announced today its first step towards national ID cards - the "maple leaf card" (no folks I am not making this up) to be issued to new immigrants to Canada. Sadly for those of us who would like to see IDs unforgeable, has such groundbreaking new anti-tamper technologies as "magnetic stripes" - (gasps of amazement) and "might one day maybe be upgraded to" fingerprints, etc. Sounds to me that the Canadian government is more interested in rushing something into useage, with no more thought to security than has been put into Canadian "tamper-proof" (read widely counterfeited) passports and other identification cards.
Toronto Star Article
Globe and Mail Article
It will be interesting to see if this card is expanded to cover all Canadian citizens at some point - a recent Globe and Mail Poll suggested 80% of Canadians would be willing to carry and show a national ID card. Of course, like Canadian border security and Canadian passports, this card too will become a farce if its not designed and implemented with a modicum of security. Somehow, to my brain, it seems pretty sketchy to entrust national security to a magnetic-stripe based card.
There are more submarines in Canada's biggest mall (West Edmonton) than in the Canadian Navy.... and Americans have better encryption on the cards in their TV sets (DirecTV, we all know how secure that is) than Canadians will have on their national ID cards. Bleh.
-- "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." (Charles Darwin)
A smart card that stored all my zillions of application/username/passwords, and a smartcard reader on anything that required me to remember a username/password, would be great. I wouldn't have to remember all that stuff. All my passwords would be collected on my smartcard, not on a piece of paper under my bed, not in Hailstorm's databases.
That's a different issue from reporting the same unique id everywhere you go. The same card could do that as well (or not).
It seems like a lot of people in situations like this (like this "Mike Davis" character) use evidence of the current system's incompetence as proof that "we need a bigger bueracracy."
Couldn't have said it better myself...
Who did what now?
Or at least, you could. I would suspect that, regardless of what's legal, you probably can't get on a plane without ID since the horrific acts of Sept. 11.
On the books, though, barring any very recent legislation, there is an FAA security directive with very clear and concise instructions on what to do if a passenger cannot or will not show valid ID, or if the ID they show cannot be validated. It says absolutely NOTHING about forbidding them from boarding the aircraft; it only deals with either making sure you thoroughly check all their baggage, or make sure their baggage is only on the plane if they are also on the plane (ie: take it off if they aren't on the plane at takeoff time)
It may actually be illegal to refuse to allow an American citizen to fly on a domestic flight without presenting ID.
Of course.. I'm sure tha'ts been changed recently.
> I heard that in WWII, there was a joke going
> around about spotting German spies. You'd ask the
> suspected spy some incredibly arcane bit of
> baseball trivia. If he got it right, you shoot
> him. Only a German spy would study baseball that
> thoroughly.
The German spy and the guy that knows whether he got it right...
I will NEVER be forced to carry proof of my citizenship or identity to live in this country.
Jail me? Sure. Fine me? OK. Torture me? Ouch. They can have my freedom, but not my acquiescence. I would never acceed to this, and I don't feel any self-respecting freedom-loving American should either.
I'm terribly dissappointed these so-called forward thinkers think so little of our personal liberty. It's really very sad.
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
Too bad for you! Microsoft seems to have dropped Windows for Smart Card in May 2000. One of the worst product names ever. Should have been VB for SC.
Now you are stuck with Java Card. Maybe they can fill up on coffee instead of FUD.
Lasers Controlled Games!