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3Com's 10/100 Switching... Wallplate
An anonymous reader wrote in to say "Tom's hardware has an exclusive review of the new 3Com Network Jack. This is a 4-port 10/100 switch that fits in a standard-sized wallplate." Alright, thats a good idea (he says while accidentally kicking the switch hidden under his desk). Having run more then my share of ethernet drops in the past, I gotta say I dig this idea.
Honey! Can I change my Christmas list from socks to a 4-port wall...
Huh?
Oh, it's so you can connect four computers in one location.
Yeah....yeah....
But...
Someday the dog might need an Ethernet port, too.
Oh, whatever! Get me the damned tie then!
Women! Grrrr....
- Bill
the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head
I got an offer in the mail for a free one of these. Just gotta fill out a survey at http://www.3com.com/customer_first (no html link because I'm lazy). Of course you need a customer code on the post card. *grin*
Will it protect it from the wierd guy in networking that once shorted out the phone system while rewiring his ethernet port because he decided it was too slow for his everquest games? Is it armored to protect it from the REALLY wierd guy from R & D that was running around the comms room with a broadsword?
(The really sad part is, I'm not kidding. I actually work with these people.)
*prepares new resume*
I am !amused.
And when did I finish re-wiring my house ? 2 months ago.
They did this on purpose didn't they ? Its just to annoy me I can tell, its a personal thing, well I'm going to take it like a man and blub in the corner.
Great idea, would have been perfect rather than the mini hubs or manual wiring jobs I had to use.
Bugger. I'll get them for this, just you see if I don't
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Fucking Cool.
Although my 48port 10/100 managed switch that is serving as the base of my monitor is a little cooler.
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Haivng a technically minded guy around is great..:) :)
:)
The wall-ports at my work each have 6 ethernet connections, one BNC, and two telephone jacks.
6 you may ask? Well, since ethernet only uses four of the eight wires in the cat5 cable, so you can send two connections down one cable (and out one wall jack), although you need a splitter cable (easy to make) if you want to get the second connection out of it of course
Then, all the ports are wired up via the walls to a central switchboard where you can use short pieces of cable to connect the network any way you like. It's brilliant
A hub built into a wall switch! That's amazing! At the rate things are going, someone is going to invent a network card that doesn't even NEED cables, and this thing will be obsolete! Maybe it could use RADIO WAVES!
If guns kill people, then CmdrTaco's keyboard misspells words.
Great idea now I can get rid of that five port hub under my desk so I can work on more than one pc at a time. It does need a power source though, so plan ahead and use power over ethernet, or you will need to supply power too.
r ts .html
3com link:
http://www.3com.com/en_US/jump_page/more_lan_po
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." --Unknown
...anyone else notice how bad their switches suck? We've run into problems where even cards manufactured by 3com will not work with their 10/100 switches. I wouldn't trust something like this in my data center or in my bedroom walls...
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
People who are going to install ethernet switches will probably cable it themselves and put in a regular old switch, and not need this 'gee whiz' switch. Others will opt for home PNA or 802.11 solutions.
I don't see them selling a whole bunch of these. Other than the 'gee whiz' factor they aren't any more useful than a regular switch/hub.
this sounds pretty cool for some applications - particularly if you have a number of boxen in one corner of a room or something.
Personally (and I don't know if this is similar to any other experiences), my gear is more spread out...that is, I rarely ever keep more than one ethernet-enabled device in one area of a room. I can see this being a really nice implementation for offices where a group of workstations are arranged close to one another, but other than that, there aren't many practical applications for the home. I'll probably stick to using a 24-port switch in the closet, and various single- and dual-port wall plates throughout the house.
who gives a rip? What are you . . . an English / Grammer Nazi??
This is a message board, not a scholarly publication. I get pissed every time someone points out the less than perfect grammer or spelling of a poster.
Did you understand the message the poster was trying to say???? If so . . . THEN the grammer is irrelevant.
robi
This is pointless. It's a $399 four-port hub. And where is the flexibility? Hmm? At my office we ran 4-Cat5 ports to ever cubicle. That means that at the patch panel, if someone needs three network ports, cool. If someone needs two network ports, and two analog modem lines, cool. If I want to put a dumb terminal on my desk and patch it to my serial port in the server room, cool. No problem. Sooooo much flexibility.
This gives you nothing, and unless you want to buy some expensive power over ethernet equipment you still have a power cable going from the wall to this socket. Anyone who claims this is useful is full of themselves! Concerned about a mess of cables under the desk? Excuse me but if you have a need for four Cat-5 connections at one desk, I'm assuming four computers. That means that you have a mess to start with. What is a four port hub thrown into the mix?
This device is the logical equivalent to saying, "Instead of using surge protectors at every desk, we shall install 8 power slots in a straight row in such a configuration that a power block (for say a printer) doesn't take up three slots."
Then you have troubleshooting. It is a lot easier to use cable testing equipment and knowing that if one of the four cat-5 cables between the patch pannel and the office magically goes out, at least we have three. If this little thing goes out, we are talking DOWN TIME until you can replace the part (might be minutes instead of just seconds like now). Any arguments?
I wonder how many people are going to try to plug their phones into the ethernet jacks, and wonder why they don't have a dialtone? Either that, or try to force their ethernet cable into a phone jack. Working in tech support for a DSL provider, a good half of the calls I get regarding the ethernet modem have to do with people confusing RJ-11 and RJ-45 ports.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
anyone got a mirror/link?
the history of the world
If you need >2 network runs on one cable, though, the coolness factor of this product can't be denied. :-)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
This is a message board, not a scholarly publication.
It's a poor society we live in when correct spelling and grammar is expected only in "scholarly publications".
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
Why do you say your name twice? Is that in case you forget it?
"Although the NJ100 can be powered by a local AC adapter, the NJ100's "Power-Over-Ethernet" option is a feature that really provides additional value."
So if I don't get the extra PoE option, I have a switch mounted in the wall (nice and neat)- powered by a cord thats running across from AC brick plugged into the nearest power-outlet (ugly as sin). Am I missing something here?
*** I am the real stylewagon
GrammAr, fuckwit
If you're going to correct other people's grammer then please get it right. Although I'm sure you will find that it's not worth the effort.
'Then' is used to indicative whereas 'than' is comparative. Therefore, in your first three examples it would be more appropriate to use 'than' than 'then'. However, in your fourth example it would be more appropriate to use 'then' than 'than'.
Cheers,
Ben
---
Than \Than\ ([th][a^]n), conj.
A particle expressing comparison, used after certain adjectives and adverbs which express comparison or diversity, as more, better, other, otherwise, and the like. It is usually followed by the object compared in the nominative case. Sometimes, however, the object compared is placed in the objective case, and than is then considered by some grammarians as a preposition. Sometimes the object is expressed in a sentence, usually introduced by that; as, I would rather suffer than that you should want.
Then \Then\, conj.
In that case; in consequence; as a consequence; therefore; for this reason.
Syn: Therefore.
AS a person who just bought a new house (Ok old house, but new to me... I never lived there before) running 2-cat5e,cat3,2-RG6 cables to each outlet plate (I.E. 2 locations to each room) is not difficult by any means. Anyone can go to home-depot and buy all the parts and tools needed (Note: dont waste your money on RG6Quad shield, it offer's you nothing) to completely wire your home, in 1 weekend ALONE. no other perosn helping to pull cable. My 6 foot long drill-bit has a hole in the tip so I can drill down, wander downstairs, tie the wire on and pull it back.
The trick is to plan your needs. the entertainment wall needs more ethernet than the bathroom (Kidding! you use wireless in there) and your office location needs even more than that.
It's cheaper than buying several of these "switches" and gives you better lan-topology in your home.
If I was retrofiting an existing-wired-house and didnt want to ttake the time to do it right? Sure! but I love using my rotozip to cut holes in walls and pulling wires through rafters.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
This test is very similar to "ping," and tells you how long it takes another machine to respond. This measurement is commonly referred to as "lag" or "latency."
:-)
:-)
I really didn't know what does "lag" or "latency" meant
TCP Throughput tests the time it takes to transfer a block of data from test desktop system to our test server system. Sometimes called "bandwidth," it is a measure of a network's raw transfer speed.
"bandwidth,"
Sounds like something pretty weird...
until the painters arrive and ruin your $300 ethernet "jacks".
For those that don't want to read the article...here's a Direct Link to the pic.
And another one to a 3Com diagram
And one last pic.
I guess no ones has noticed the obvious down side is that instead of having multiple dedicated 100Mb runs to a cube, now all the devices are going to share just one link.
Sure, not many apps will use all 100 Mb, but that is certainly something to think about.
--crotherm
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
when correct spelling and grammar is expected...
Wouldn't that be "when correct spelling and grammar are expected" ?????
Tom says it costs $467 for the wiring for 4 drops. WTF? He never said how long the drops were, but that's about 1000ft per drop at normal plenum prices. God forbid he's talking aobut non-plenum.
The technology here is cool, but Tom is crazy if he thinks that it costs that much money to do cable work. Someone let him know that the over inflated dot-bomb era is over and people don't charge $250/hr for $100/hr work, that my non-technical Mom could, do any longer... When it comes down to it.. those wall plates don't save you money. They are convenient and very cool.. but they do not save you money.
I do this for a living. How hard is it to pull a wall plate off the wall - change it for the 3com part and poof? Take me a couple minutes per plate I think. If you did it properly you should have some slack in the cabeling so that you can pull the assembly out and actually work with it.
:) - if you live in Portland OR give me a ring :) - if you have that CD-ROM the DMV gives everyone you'll find my number under N7WSB.
Anyhoo - if you want some help I could use the extra money
Have you ever been reading an article and for no reason what so ever the server grinds to a halt? Pictures don't come up, "page can not be found" errors, and then it hits you like a ton of bricks, I bet this just made Slashdot. You click the link at the top of the your browser ( you do have a Slashdot link? Don't you?) and BAM there it is? Well that just happened to me and now I can't finish the article so suck it!
Does anyone actually have a Java program designed to control air traffic, or for the operation of a nuclear facility?
Does anyone know how much this costs? I can't find a price anywhere.
I give a rip, so I post about it. Grammar is relevant -- grammar gives structure to language and allows us to communicate.
It's a poor society we live in when we mistake correct spelling and grammar for a "scholarly publication".
This thing would be excellent for a certain type of home office... if only it were about $70 instead. I have four computers at home: one for my fun, one for my work, one for my wife and kids, and a laptop. Honestly, I'd love the convenience of having the switch in the wall. Why is it convenience? Because then I can more easily hide all my wires. Its not a big deal, but still, it would be nice. What would make it nicer is if you could have multiple of these talking to each other wirelessly (e.g. via 802.11b). Then just stick one in each room, and voila, no wiring hassel, just plug in and enjoy.
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
A whole wall panel for so little. What I would like is a glorified patch cable, with two bisexual ends. Find a socket that seems to have some working equipment connected to it, disconnect, plug your cable in, and reconnect what ever it was. Plug the other end in your laptop, and also there is a free end for the next guy and his laptop. Enough "intelligence" to handle 10/100Mbit conversions in all four directions, so it makes what ever old/new equipmen fit what ever old/new network, and to adapt to the needs of straight/crossed cabling if both ends turn out to be hubs or PCs. Preferably no power needed, eating a few electrons from the signal wires, or at least a built-in battery for the next zillion years... Price wouldn't matter, as long as most everyone could afford one... Is this really too much to ask?
In Murphy We Turst
Companies will buy tons of these? Why? Why would a company buy a 300 dollar 4 port integrated switch, when they can just buy the switch and wall plate separately cheaper?
In fact, most companies probably won't even need to. Chances are they have a rack of switches in some closet somewhere, and they run 4 lines to your cube to the wall-plate. Or they run one line to the wall-plate, and give you a $50 switch. No need to spend $300.00 per cube.
LOL! Nice catch. I was thinking the same thing before I read your thread.
New Slashdot poll:
Paypal accidently dumped $400 into your account...
1) Four port wall mounted hub
2) ipod with all the hacked drivers
3) ten Oreilly books of your choice plus a free copy of Learning "Spelling" 2002
4) Limted edition Drivers License collection on CD-ROM or DVD
5) A night with Cowboy Neal
CAT5 wire runs are generally $100 a pop.
Figure another $50 in travel or what not....seems about right to me!
Some guys run (no pun intended) $50 a wire if it's only CAT3
"If you're going to correct other people's grammer then please get it right."
It's grammAr! grammAr! grammAr! grammAr! grammAr!/b>
DAMNIT! YOU DUMB FUCK!
ahhh.. That felt good.
And I just spent all that money running through a 110 block... I could ahve wiated another week and got these.
A lot of these replies talk about how this device is useless and they would rather just buy a regular 4-port switch. I see your point but I don't think 3Com cares if you buy this to wire your home. The article mentions working closely with cubicle manufacturers. If you work in a cube farm (and I do) you can immediately see how 3Com can make a lot of money from these.
Step1: 3Com gets cubicle companies to build these into cubes.
Step2: Cubicle companies build these switches into their cubes becuase they will have a nifty new feature to use in selling their cubes.
Step3: Large companies like mine buy new cubes for slightly higher price to get this nifty must have feature.
This seems clear to me....But my mind might be fuzzy from staring at this grey cube wall all day.
-- Find the Truth...
Some people here are saying things like "why not just do 2 or more runs in the first place?" To that I say that if you're wiring up 50 work areas and you have the premise wiring folks already on site, go for it; it's only slightly more expensive to have them run multiple cables.
But what happens when you have a single location that needs more Ethernet? That's the target market here. Instead of getting the premise wiring guys back on site to haul more cable, you just use this jack to fan-out more ports. Conventionally this is done using those little desktop mini-hubs, but putting it inside the wallbox instead of on the desk (or worse, on the floor beneath the desk) makes it neater and more difficult to break.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
I don't have my O'Reilly ethernet book handy... but isn't there a limitation with the number of switches that you can cross in a network? If you had one of these at both ends, that could be two unecessary switches to consider when laying out the office back-bone.
But if you run 10/100 hubsin you punchdown room and you are pluging these applicances into a 10/100 port, arnt you limiting 10/100 total bandwidth for 4 jacks? on ave that would be 2.5/25 per jack. But then agian i might be a troll.
"All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
Labor is never free.
THERE IS NO DATA. THERE IS O
This is great if everyone is going out through the same connection but not so good if people are accessing multiple file servers inside the building.
Adding a switch will simply give all 4 people 1/4 of the 100 mb connection between the wall plate and the destination.
is it just me or it's kinda ironic? :)
i don't think you're a troll, but i don't think that most jacks would have all four ports maxxed out at the same time.
THERE IS NO DATA. THERE IS O
And you use this for WHAT in the server room besides scaring the crap out of the guy wiring up the phone line for the new fax machine...?
---------------------------------------
Rotate the pod, please, HAL....
This is an international forum. Many people here know English only as their second (or third, or...) language. This makes correct grammar and spelling more important. Even if it were just American and English people here, sloppiness, laziness and colloquialisms would still lead to many miss-understandings or miss-interpretations. Just like we bash MSFT for screwing with open standards and protocols, so natural language should get some attention. It's all about communicating. If you don't care about all of your target audience understanding the true meaning of your words, then go ahead, write like a fourth grader.
What a bummer! I think if i had to stare at a grey cubicle wall all day, I'd shove my Makarov in my mouth...and well you know the rest. They need to at least make the walls blue or something else, more colorful than...grey. Just Damn! :-) Seriously, will they not let you hang some posters or something?
Derek Greene
Note to self: read what I'm replying to
I wonder where Tom got the numbers for the cost comparison? He has cable pulling at $300+ for each run, I pay about $120. If his cable puller is charging him quad for four wires he needs a new cable puller. It ain't rocket science. He has upstream switch ports at $90ea! I'm paying $25 each. Then he has the mystical `gigabit switch port' row.
The maintanence/year row implies that the maintanence cost of the 3com device is zero. I would rather have something like "15% of cost"/year for it. I don't have many 4 year old hubs that haven't either died or got some blown ports. Lots of lightning around here. Its especially hard on hubs and NICs because of the ground surge differential on close strikes.
I see no indication of either the extra cost for powered ethernet devices or the electrical work to power the 3com devices.
The traditional wiring is costed for the worst case, where 4 ports are really active. Needing 4 ports available everywhere is not the same as needing 4 ports active everywhere. I routinely run four times the copper that I will need and activate ports as needed.
An even better comparison would have been to compare the 3com wall jack hub to a free standing hub. But then the 3com would not have looked so good.
It's a shame 3com didn't have these during the dotcom boom. They could have sold dumptruck loads of them. Now? I doubt it.
TROLL!
He's not the grammar nazi. This is the grammar nazi. (Where is he when we need him?)
i love pretentious linguist assholes. congratulations, you've memorized all the rules. here's a fucking cookie. now realize that people communicate just fine with dangling participles and using words like "gonna".
No, this isn't a groundbreaking innovation. But all of the trolls spewing about "planning ahead to meet your needs" and "cables aren't expensive to run - I can get everything I need at Home Depot and do it over the weekend" are not the target audience for this product.
This is for network professionals to be used as one of a couple of options for solving the lack of ports problems.
Those commenting about it's uselessness, or that it is not cost effective simply have no idea what they are talking about. No, it's not cost effective EVERYWHERE. It's not the solution for EVERYTHING. But here's a few scenarios where it does work:
- Cube with one drop. Somebody gets a laptop, or you install VoIP phones. Running another piece of cable from your closet to a cube, down an outside wall and through the cube get into the $400+ range. This is cheaper.
- You move some desks around and have more employees in the same space. Often times it would be cheaper to use somethig like this, and much cleaner than slopping some cheap switches under desks or hidden in drop ceiling tiles.
-You move into an office that has drops, but not enough. Same as above.
And before you say that cable does cost that much, remember this: I pay people to run cable. I'm a professional, and running cable in the office is NOT MY JOB. Repeat: NOT MY JOB. And to further that point, I can have a few of these on hand and simply pop them in a wall pocket in a few minutes (ok, so I'd be telling one of my network administrators to do it) rather than waiting a few days and dealing with the disruption of getting/having cable monkeys into the office.
To summarize: losers who think they are big time network administrators because they have a linux box and some sorry ass Sparc 10 they got off of eBay running behind their aDSL router on thie home network are NOT the intended audience of this product. People such as that don't have the required experience to even make an intelligent comment about such a device.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
Step1: Collect cubicles and switches.
Step2: ???
Step3: Profit!
--
The Cap is nigh. Time to get a fresh new account.
While true, many IT groups charge per line, and not per pull, you have to admit the following will happen:
You have one line running from the switch panel to the cube, where there is on of these nj100 things. You will still charge the group for FOUR lines, despite only having one physical line, because the endpoint still terminates with 4 ports, so the group doesn't save any money at all.
And how is this easier to maintain? Before IT only had to manage a switch panel and the cables, now they have to manage a 4 port switch in each cube? Before if the guy had his own switch, it was his own problem, now its IT's, because its integrated in the wall-plate.
As for costs, it may reduce cost of cable pulled, but it increases cost of the endpoint.
You can buy a four post switch for like 50 bucks. So you can have a stack of 4 port switches somewhere at 50 bucks a pop plus some change for the wallplate, or $150 per pop... Which is cheaper?
I know you are referring to the 24+ port beasts, but even if you had these 4 port integrated plates, your company is still going to have those 24+ port beasts, so there is still no savings.
You might say, that you can save on the number of 24+ port things you need. Well, there is more to the 24+ port switch then just 24+ ports. They support other things like management stuff, etc etc. Stuff you won't get with the integrated wall plate.
One item that I did not see addressed is whether or not it passes on the 802.3af Power Over Ethernet to the devices attached to the switch. Some of my customers use IP Phones, and this would be extra-sweet for them (the company won't authorize purchase of 802.3af power sources for the phones, but they might use these jacks when they move their offices...).
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
"That depends on what the definition of the word 'is' is." - William Jefferson Clinton
The butler did it.
J/K
The switch works a bit better that the SMC 4 port that the reviever was using as a basis of comparison. Bottom line, if you like the form factor, and think that justifies the price increase, go for it.
Why is Tom comparing the cost for four cable runs to the cost of one run with the wallplate? It seems like he's pushing this device. I wonder how many he gets for free if he writes a favorable review?
This wallplate will not be competing with four cable runs as much as it will with one cable run going to a regular 4 or 8 port switch, will it? I mean, in the performance test he wasn't that specific in what I saw, but it appears he is comparing a single run of cable to the wallplate and a single run to a regular switch. Why the hell is he comparing the price to four runs of cable, then? Seems to me that he's trying to make it look like a better deal than it actually is.
If you want to do a proper cost comparison, all you need to do is compare the price of a regular 4 port switch with that of the 3com wallplate. Running four cables is more expensive, but it also provides a dedicate 100Mb/sec connection to each jack, rather than all four sharing 100Mb/sec from the 3com to whatever switch or device is on the other end.
-N
I dislike the idea of replacing or supplimenting workgroup switches with these wall plate things. Does this switch support 802.1Q or 802.1D and things of that nature? Can software upgrades be preformed on these things? Is the thing manageable at all? If not, port-based VLANs are out the window. Switching off a port for security reasons is also out the window. Basic administrative tasks could be greatly inhibited or prohibited if this device has little managment capabilities or none at all. I see people jumping at this idea and embracing it as the next great thing. They did this to 802.11B too. These are also the type of people think wireless is a replace for a wired connection. It is not a replacement for a wired connection. It's convienent for laptops, kioks, printers in odd places, dynamically changing rooms like temporary cubical farms, and PDA access. It can not replace a wired connection for a desktop. So many basic network administrative tasks are inhibited by wireless connections. Most people don't realize it because the extent of their networking ability is buying a 4 port hub and plugging in purchased cables. Perhaps they know how use a crimper and can pull a little wire between rooms. They still don't do the network tasks that a network admin like myself have to do. They just see it as a easier way to connect things together. bad bad bad
My 6 foot long drill-bit has a hole in the tip so I can drill down, wander downstairs, tie the wire on and pull it back.
How the heck do you start drilling with a 6ft long drill bit? Do you work on an oil rig when you are not busy networking your house, because I sure cannot imagine using a 6ft drill bit comfortably.
Often times, AFTER all the wire is pulled, our clients will decide that they actually want 4 ports out of a wall plate instead of 2, AND they DON'T want a local Hub/Switch that takes up room. This would be a quick, neat and tidy solution for just those situations - IF it works well, we'll probably sell about 1 a month.
Never never never smoke crack before geometry class!
You messed up your </b> tag, by the way.
Heil Webster!
Im in escrow to buy a place now, 1 of these in a few rooms seems nifty..
Part of that pricing is in the number of core switch ports - he's estimating the cost per port at $90-something. With the Network Jack, you use only one and get 4 active ports. W/O the Network Jack, you use 4...
The office next to us was undergoing renovations for new tenants; one morning our phones all go dead.. everyone (especially the sales guys) is in a panic, because every phone is dead..
A few minutes later, a guy in overalls comes in and says "do your phones work?" We tell him no, and ask if he knows what happened..
He says "Well, I was doing some work next door, and I ran my saw through these wires so I could put in some new drywall. Gosh, those wires sure didn't LOOK important!"
The Darwinist in me wishes they were electrical wires, instead of telephone.
Ahhh... I never thought I'd see the day when the RJ11 phone jack is the "Legacy Voice" jack!
This looks pretty sweet... I hope my next apartment comes pre-wired. =)
This is one of those things where you wonder, "Why didn't someone think of this before?!" It's that simple and effective.
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that you're an idiot!
As a network guy, I find these really cool. In your typical office environment the 100Mbps uplink would be fine. But, for the more technical environments, where they make heavier use of the network, a Gigabit ethernet option would be great. Either a gigabit uplink, or even a full gigabit switch.
Then all you need to hook up to a LAN is a non-flatscreen monitor. =)
Karma: Non-Heinous
Well, your wires that are so secure also transmit just the same as any wireless network. Unless there is a high level of shielding anyone within range (I am not *that* technical, I don't know what the range is) can tune in listen to your bits fly.
Of course they can't intrude, but who needs to when they can read off all those passwords you sent in the clear over your "secure" _wired_ network.
http://monkeyserver.com --- weeeeee
Networking changes all the time, so it doesn't make much sense to build VoIP or switches into the wall, in particular if they replace sockets that need to be replaced by powerstrips. Keep the power in the wall and VoIP and switches in separate little boxes.
J.J.
As yet another person who just finished installing 100 Base T to every room in his new house I would agree with all the posters here who say that blah blah they were lazy so they only ran one cable to each room (most of my computers are in one room which has the 16 port switch, adsl etc in it to minimize dealing with wires through doors), but hey, you want more than one device in the ancillary rooms, just put a small switch on the end of the cable instead.
/. houses, and the advantages over a regular switch are that users will not unplug the switch or steal it. So OK, if I had employees who stole or unplugged switches (then called support) I would fire their lame asses, but that's just me.
/., or Tom's Hardware ?
Tom actually does address this though. The thing is designed for corporate environments, not
The real question is why this essentially boring, aimed at businesses product is being discussed on
I have seen TH grow from a cool hardware site no-one knew about to the popularity it enjoys today and can only worry about the negative effect that popularity is having, specifically taking it up the arse for sponsers' dollars.
graspee
Wasn't clear to you? It might help to read the acual[sic] comment once in a while.
:-)
I'll be more clear. Basically no one has powered ethernet in their closets today, so you either have to buy the 3com power adding device mentioned in the article or replace all your ports with power supplying ports. For new build outs I presuming that powered port devices are more expensive than non-powered.
At least one of the comparisons THG ran on the switches is completely useless.
Isn't it great that both of the switches can ping with 100 bytes of data at 1ms?
Wonder why it was always the same?
The ping included with MS OS's AFAIK can only report times equal or greater than 1ms. This is a great troubleshooter when you are pinging MIT from California but if you are pinging across just one switch, a 1ms time is horrible.
I get a 456us (.456ms) ping time, using 100 bytes, across an ancient 10Mbit HUB!!!
Of course I am using ping from iputils-20001110. This is not a MS bashing post, only a wish that THG would use meaningful tests sometimes.
I wish I had one of these last summer. I was helping my college's tech depatment wire some classrooms and I spent way too much time under desks with a punch-down tool.
Considering where it's located though, it would probably be cheaper and easier if it was just an unpowered hub instead of a switch. A cubicle with around four devices doesn't really need it's own switch.
Because most sites in their right mind could care less. It seems like a logical step to take for wiring buildings and such, nothing big.
I don't have any respect for Tom's Hardware. Case in point, the recent Motherboard review, completely useless bunk. Even when scores match, the reviewer's favorite "clearly beats out the competition".
And that monitor guide, also complete garbage. Why do monitors user Red, Green, And Blue? They say because they couldn't find a Yellow phosphor, BS. They really need to take a class on optics, the primary colors of painting (absorbing light) is an entirely different thing from emitting light (CRTs). They really overstep their knowledge without any proper research, and clearly push their own agendas in the reviews, so I really have grown to distrust Tom's, and most hardware review sites in general.
This product is a 10/100 ethernet switch. A completely different animal.
You can now use a single faceplate with a single FastEthernet run back to your core switch to provide switched 10 or 100Mbps connectivity to multiple hosts, and they cannot see each others traffic.
I'm not sure if it's worth several hundred bucks, but it is a neat idea.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
don't forget the jews
your right,nigga,it do be a poor society we be livin in, know what I'm sayin?
How much current can I draw through Cat 5? I assume all NICs are isolated against DC, but I'm interested as to how much power I can actually draw though the Ethernet cable itself.
Alright you got me there. But comeon, this is slashdot, you read the articles or the comments, not both. ;)
No. Wireless is inherintly insecure. Unless you can use ssh tunnels over the 802.11b and route ALL traffic through them, not accepting traffic through other ways, anyone can either get an IP via DHCP, even if it checks MAC addresses, or try manual configuration until they get a connection. Even if you use the WAP encryption (or whatever the abbreviation is) it is still insecure, and someone in a car nearby with a laptop, a wireless card, and an antenna can use your internet connection. Plus, wireless is more expensive than wired, and i kinda like all the colourful cords running everywhere. :)
/usr/games/fortune
I've never been fond of leaving open ports around (security issues) and these things just spread the lovin' a bit too much. It wouldn't be such a problem if my Coms folks could turn off officially unused ports, identify what is plugged into each used port, collect traffic rates, etc. Heck it'd be great if the HelpDesk folks could remote the box and see if something is plugged into #3 and what speed is it, is it showing green.
I'd also be worried about the day everything bursty goes at once and that too-kewl VOIP gets starved. I really don't care if the printer gets stuck at some low packet rate but I do care about other types and some built-in QoS support (even if depending on 3Com hardware at the other end) would be useful.
Mebbe in Rev. B.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
When you put ethernet and phone in the same cable, you may not notice problems initially. But when the phone rings there'll be a 100V signal on the phone line. That doesn't sound good to me.
Try doing a file transfer and ringing that phone at the same time.
That said even if there were problems most people won't really notice (Internet B/W itself isn't that reliable ).
Cheerio,
Link.
Ah. I sense much Dictionary in you.
:) ).
Dictionary leads to spelling. Spelling leads to grammar.
And grammar leads to pain (when reading Slashdot
Link.
Why a switch is often better than a hub:
A hub is basically passive. All of the ports have to be running the same speed. A switch is active. Each port is handled independently, so you can mix 10 Mbps and 100 Mbps devices.
While a lot of newer stuff is 100 Mbps, there's still a lot of 10 Mbps kit out there, so a switch lets you migrate as you please.
and the french!
This article is more like an advertisement for the things than a review... sure, it's a cute idea, but the guy starts the article out by claiming this would save you tons of money, and he keeps emphasizing that. Basically that's total BS.
First of all they sure are nicer than lose mini-hubs at the end-points, but I doubt they are cheaper... I'd be very surprised if 3Com sold these things for less than say $50 a piece and you can get a mini-hub for less than that. And if you want to get the full benefit of this thing you have to set up your wires for POE (power of ethernet) and that's non-trivial... if the other end of the wires goes into a big switch, where does the POE come from? You have to put something in between the switch and EACH wire to supply the power, unless you have a switch that supports POE natively (which you don't, but I'm sure 3Com will sell you for rather more money than most competing equipment). He hints that 3Com will sell you some equipment to add POE to existing infrastructure, but that'll be significant additional cost.
Secondly he outright lies when he says the following: "Normally, if you need four network ports in an area, you have to pull four cables. Cable installers are not stupid. It takes them the same amount of time to pull four ports as it does to pull one. The interesting part is that when the installation is billed to you, you are charged the same amout as if they had pulled all four cables separately, rather than all four at one time."
Now that's total BS. I've never seen an installer who didn't bill based on time and materials... so, yes, you have to pay for 4 cables, but the materials aren't the expensive part... the installer time is, and like he says himself it doesn't take more time to pull 4 than to pull 1.
So in short, yes it's a cool product that could be very useful when you want to expand the ports in an existing infrastructure without pulling new wire and you don't want lots of lose mini-hubs lying around... but you'll pay extra to do it nicely, you're not going to save money.
:j
This service offers stealth addresses:
me@privacy.net
me1@privacy.net
me2@privacy.net
.
.
.
You get the idea.
Though this is a neat idea that I hadn't thought of, it's not too surprising. I opened up my LinkSys 5 port 10/100 switch (I was bored), to find that inside this tiny box is more space than components. The box itself would almost fit in a standard outlet box, and if gutted and re-arranged a bit...
Of course the price tag is a bit steep considering $60 buys the LinkSys, which is small enough not to worry about, but it's still a neat idea. I'm sure they'll get cheaper as time goes on.
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
WTF was this alleged "computer geek" smoking??
The article states:
"The NJ100 also includes a connect light, as well as a power light on the jack plate itself. Both lights are small and don't blink. This is good, because you don't want something neon bright blinking under your users' desks."
Says who? Hell YES we want stuff blinking! Doesn't this fool realize that the more blinkylites you have, the cooler you are?
LITES = NETWORK PERFORMANCE!
BLINKY = PERFORMANCE!
BLINKYLITES = BIG PERFORMANCE!
*shakes head* It's so simple....
lighten up guy, the economy is soft, and lots of guys are out of work from the dotBombs, so what wrong with showing management that even if they out-source some work, your still the one that they need to make it work?
I'd consider it a job security aid
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
but Tom is crazy if he thinks that it costs that much money to do cable work. Someone let him know that the over inflated dot-bomb era is over and people don't charge $250/hr for $100/hr work,
If they think they can get away with it they most certainly will...
...involving a switched network. Many networks, especially large enterprise networks, use different switches for backbones, servers, and desktops. Many switch offerings that are typically used for desktops, for example 3Com's Superstack Desktop switches with which I am familiar, are limited to very few (usually two) MAC addresses per port. I don't know all the reasons that this is done. I assume that security may be one reason. Perhaps they are cheaper to manufacture, as well. In any case, the result of this is that only two devices can go through that port when a hub or switch is cascaded off one of these "desktop" switches. So, if you plug a four port switch/hub like this one into the jack, two devices can get connectivity, but that's it. Of course, in many situations, a fix may be as simple as taking the jack out of a desktop level switch and plugging it into a more robust one. That may be practical for a limited number of these, but you may have to upgrade a lot of switches to deploy these on a wide scale.
this is a left handed sig
Er... Why not just get a Lynksys switch and hang it on the wall. Sure it sticks out about 1.5", but it has status lights, more features, an uplink port for future expandability, and if something goes wrong with it or it's time to upgrade (gigabit?), you can easilly replace it. You can also take the external switch with you when you move, or move it to another location if you reorganize your office or home.
We could build phones into the walls too, but most people would like to choose a phone with the features they want and be able to move it if they have to.
IANS (I Am Not Sure) but aren't electrical wires behind the wall somewhat fire resistant? This is to stop them becoming conduits for fire to other floors (imagine a plastic-coated wire that caught on fire. It would quickly burn up the inside of the wall to the next floor. Not so good.)
So, are there fire resistant network cables? Are they available for the home user? Do these wall plate packages warn about this and to not just run standard across-the-floor cable?
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
How many of you have had to deal with the MAC address database getting corrupted on a switch? Now imagine having 500 cheap 4 port switches on your network. What this comes down to is management. For a small apartment/business/home these things are fine. If you are a buiness and you buy these you are on drugs.
Just say no to drugs...
Your Average Joe
But it is definitely more immune to RF interference than non-QS. Try living near an old paging system transmitter sometime and see what they do to cable channel 8; it's not pretty without quad shield...
This device wouldn't create an issue of broadcast storms -- if someone from the IT department gets a request that user XYZ needs an additional data jack, they're going to make it happen one way or another.
A management hassle in my opinion will be duplex mismatches. Imagine these scenarios:
"Standard Wiring Topology"
In the "standard" configuration, a client PC is connected to your MANAGED workgroup switch. The network administrator configures the switch to Auto speed/duplex negotiation and the other link partner (the client PC in this case) is also configured for Auto speed/duplex negotiation. We'll assume they now run at 100/Full duplex. Now, if one of the link partners (either the switch or PC) is hard-coded to 10/Full duplex or 100/Full duplex, auto-negotiation will fail, resulting in a duplex mismatch. This will cause runts, FCS errors, and late collisions on that collision domain.
In order to fix this scenario, you can monitor the switch port for errors, diagnose the problem, and resolve the issue.
"3Com's Environmentally Friendly Topology"
Your MANAGED workgroup switch is configured for Auto speed/duplex negotation, which is connected to an auto-negotation port on the wall switch. However, as soon as XYZ user plugs in a hard-coded device, you'll have connectivity issues. Except now, because it's an unmanaged switch, you have no way to diagnose it.
Go with Intel NIC's.
Agreed.
Telefunken ECC83 / 12AX7
Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours.
TF-ECC83 $99.95
http://www.thetubestore.com/telec1.html
While it's true that the purpose of the 5-4-3 rule is to avoid collisions of packets that are travelling at the rather slow speed of electromagnetic propagation over copper, and that the 5-4-3 rule envisions hubs, not switches, as the intermediary devices, it is also true that there is a maximum number of switches allowed on a network. Switches act as Layer Two bridges, and it is their responsibility to store and forward information about all known MAC addresses on all physical interfaces. A network with too many remote segments, containing too many MAC addresses, will die in a broadcast storm. The Spanning Tree Protocol was originally designed for use in IBM Token Ring networks, which were confined to ~250 stations per ring [depending on the implementation] in the absence of a Spanning Tree. The Spanning Tree Protocol has since been borrowed by ethernet networks, and is now in the public domain, governed by IEEE 802.1D [the most recent version of which dates from 1998]: Chapter 8 of this PDF document [pages 76 through 127] is the official Spanning Tree Protocol [together with source code for a model implementation]. In Table 8.1 [page 126], the maximum bridge diameter of a spanning tree is recommended to be seven, which is not a lot more than the maximum of the old 5-4-3 rule. Note that seven bridges means eight physical subnets, so it's sort of an 8-7 rule, as opposed to the old 5-4 rule. Curiously, though, this is only a recommendation; the requirements, as listed in Table 8.2 [also page 126], concern timing issues, not the physical diameter.
For background reading, you might consider some of these articles:
The last article, about the disgruntled vendors, concerns the newer Rapid Spanning Tree Protocol. [If you've ever set up some switches in a Spanning Tree, you know that it can take a long time for them to finish their negotiations.]I may be an idiot
Not at all; I thought the very same thing myself. The four stations will share a theoretical maximum of 100 mbps, so if four users try to access the network concurrently, they will experience a theoretical maximum of 25 mbps. [The maximums are theoretical because, owing to the various protocol overheads, no one gets anywhere near e.g. 100 mbps in reality.] For this constraint to be noticeable, four users sitting at the four stations would have to initiate something like a concurrent download of the full install of Windows 2000 Support Pack 2 [w2ksp2.exe, 106,278,016 bytes]. Of course, this sort of load could also be s[t]imulated by heavy pr0n surfing.
Most reaonably secure offices use the MAC address as a first line of defence. If your MAC isn't bound to your switch port, too bad. Outside hubs and switches? Useless. Keeps you from walking in with a laptop one morning, and walking out with whatever IP the company has in the evening.
DataSquid.net, a little about me.