Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft to Introduce GBA-competitor?
An anonymous reader writes "It seems that Nintendo will have a competition in the handheld market soon. ZDnet has an article that says Microsoft's plan to introduce a 'Media Pad' which includes among other things 'serve as a portable game player in conjunction with Microsoft's Xbox video game console.' So I guess the news I heard regarding their interest in the portable industry will soon come true, the question is, can they take the crown from Nintendo?"
They get Mario Kart Advance. Damn, that game is just too good.
...a tablet pc that plays games and interfaces w/ the XBox to me...
This is just a brainstorm-produced idea, not based in reality, but imagine if Microsoft found some way to interface their portable not only with the Xbox, but also with PS2 and GCN? I think the best thing about the GBA is that if you go to a friend's house who has a GCN, you can just plug in as another controller with your portable. Imagine if MS's new device could plug into them all... it's not like the consoles don't already have 3rd party controllers...
~ now you know
Based on the information in the article, i doubt that this will be actual competition for the GBA. The device seems to be more of a next-generation PDA than a portable game system. It is likely that it will be far more expensive than the GBA and will cater to an entirely different market.
Still, it is encouraging to see renewed interest in the handheld gaming industry, which has been so long dormant.
lysergically yours
Intel got exclusive rights to StrongARM
since GBA is just a ARM7 + custom sound off the APB then it would not be hard to do the same sort of thing
differant enough that nitendo cant sue and developers have to recompile
but easy enought that you could have a compiler switch do all the work (except the sound and that could be redone easy enough)
really its just a way for intel to push StrongARM and StronARM2 aka Xscale
regards
john jones
So I guess the news I heard regarding their interest in the portable industry will soon come true, the question is can they take the crown from Nintendo.
Nintendo fought off both Sega and Sony, two big companies. Sony forced Sega to go software only, but we still see nintendoes everywhere. The GB audience is little kids. They know "Game Boy" better than anything MS puts out.
This article is just a slashdot crack at MS, though. "Lets point out the monopoly" article! The way the slashdot community fights with Microsoft is funny, and has quite a pattern. 'Do whatever it takes' is generally the big picture. It isn't about crappy software lately, because the government saw some monopoly qualities, that's what slashdot looks into heavily. The truth is, most people that use linux exclusively hasn't even tried Win2K, which has yet to crash or bluescreen on me. Netscape on linux, and mozilla on linux crashes more than anything on win2k for me. But I'm talking to closed minds here.
Its going to be funny when the monopoly talks die down and people start attacking MS's quality to find its stronger than the last time they used it, so their arguements are moot. Sure, XP has bugs (all new OS's do. Try and tell me that Linux 1.0 didn't crash or have bugs.), and X-Box has its share, but it is the first console released under MS's name. But by the time the monopoly craze goes away, I think you'll be surprised at where MS will be.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
...can it run linux?
While Nintendo currently have the hand-held crown it stopped accepting developers for the GBA a long time ago claiming that 400 was enough. From the handful of decent titles I'd guess it isn't.
Microsoft will at least get those developers wanting to do handheld games but blocked-out by Nintendo.
Like the GBA it would almost certainly use an ARM chip as that's the only supported processor for Windows 'CE' 2002.
[)amien
I recokon this will have less and less of an impact here in Europe.
Handheld "consoles" are going out of fassion in favour of mobile phones that are incresingly having better games built in. Some already offer basic multi-player 'online' games. Unless M$ gets into the movile phone market, I won't predict too much.
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
Microsoft entering Gameboy's territory. This seems so crazy to me. Sure the XBox can get the older gamers, but I don't see a lot of them playing with GBAs. I saw three little kids in carts this weekend playing their GBAs and I think that shows that the GBA is really for younger kids. The XBox is really geared to an older audience, wherease the GBA and the Gamecube have offerings for a younger audience.
I haven't seen a viable comepetitor to the Gameboy in long time. Last I saw was the Sega Game thingy and maybe that Playstation portable some guy hacked together. Now Gameboy has a huge library of established hits to really provide a barrier to new entries. Any new entrants to the portable game console market are in for a rough time.
I guess this is what you do with a $36 Billion dollar war chest. They're gonna need it.
To me it looks more like a Universal Remote / Terminal / Control Every God Damn Thing In The House than a dedicated game machine. Somehow I doubt Nintindo has much to worry about. It sounds like the form factor is going to be more tablet like, and that's not the most ergonomic thing to play portable games on (not to mention its going to be huge compared to GBA... Etch-a-sketch huge). And its not like you're going to be able to drop $100 for one for each of the kids. Plus, how happy are you going to be when you lose some functionality of your MS TV Thingy when the nipper's taken its remote control to school to play a little Halo during his lunch hour?
The DC memory cartridges that you can stick in the controller to hold save games can also hold mini-games downloaded from the DC console (which some DC games had right on the disc). Then you can play these little games on a little monochrome screen with a Gameboy like unit (direction + button A + button B). Really, it was kind of pathetic, but cool in a weird way.
;)
I hope this isn't what they have in mind.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
the question is can they take the crown from Nintendo
I seriously doubt it. Nintendo is particularly GOOD at what they do, especially when it comes to handhelds. Just look at the staying power of the original gameboy. Even to this day, they're still selling, pretty much the original gameboy (with much improved battery life, size, screen, etc)..
Competition is always good, but MS' product will need to completely blow away the GBA (and then some) to compete -- let's not forget that the original 4 colour gameboy sompletely outsold Sega's technologically superior (at the time)Gamegear.
...handheld emulation. I've got some of that on my Jornada 720, but not much.
I'd love to see Nintendo/Sony/Microsquish/Whatever come out with a hand-held unit that runs a version of Mame, and the company goes out and buys licenses to all those old arcade games I love. Package'em half-a-dozen to a cartridge (yeah, you'll get one popular one [Pac-Man], a couple of so-so, then three scrubs, but it'll get the cash revenue going). Think: zero development costs, small license/media costs, and profits all around.
That would be sweet. Now throw in GB/GBA/NES/SNES emulation as well - hoody hoo! (Ok, why should Nintendo license their old games to MS? Because they aren't selling many of the old ones nowadays, are they?)
Anyone think this has a chance?
It was only a matter of time before they started doing this. There are no more general-user niches to fill in software anymore that Microsoft doesn't already have. Moreover, you can't really pirate hardware like you can software.
Plus, if Linux is going to do anything it's push down the OS cost and also the cost of general server aps, potentially to the point of them being so close to free that MS can't make much money off them at the point of sale.
The move to hardware is a bit of a no-brainer. I'm surprised it took them this long to realize it. What'll be scary is if they succeed in using this to enforce new software protocols. THAT would be scary.
-------------------------------------------------
charlton heston is more of a man than yo
Hmmm...
.NET in the article. It occurs to me that this device could well be made to provide Office Suite functions in a proprietary way only through the use of .NET. I just can't help but think of Microsoft's recent forays into hardware as a grand scheme to enforce use of their software...
on a second read-through i noticed a somewhat sinister mentioning of
buyers beware.
lysergically yours
Unfortunately, Nintendo's poor business sense and lack of R&D has finally caught up to them. They are fighting an 800-lb gorilla that has billion$ of dollars to spend on dominating every area of the market that it enters. And it looks like Microsoft is about to release a very versatile, multipurpose handheld device that will blow all of Nintendo's offerings right out of the water.
On the plus side, this means that consumers will have easier access to more advanced technology than before. On the minus side, Microsoft tends to release these products to reinforce their other monopolies. And that is exactly why Microsoft's corporate charter needs to be revoked: they do not play fair. They don't innovate just to create a better product; they innovate to improve sales of their other products. It's the same reason why Windows XP tries to con you into creating a Passport account and using Hotmail and MSN Messenger. Once they make all of the competitors disappear, they can start charging for their crappy services.
So, it would probably be an excellent idea to avoid this new device like the plague. "Embrace, extend, and extinguish" won't work with us because we are better than them.
Bill
I remember ten years ago working at a Babbages, playing California Games on an Atari Lynx. Backlit, 4096 colors, and a hell of alot of fun.
I'd be willing to pump more batteries in the damn thing if it meant I could see the screen.
The GBA is completely unusable (including with the aftermarket add on front lights) in anything but very bright conditions, which is something that I think they should be a little more truthful about (i.e. in the commercial where the guy is playing in a church: Fat chance).
hey if they backlight the thing maybe people will start to abandon and nintendo and they'll get their act together and release a usuable portable. currently the gba straight out of teh box is not even usable
Before you Slashbots out there start droning away the thoughts of The Hive, just a word of caution: Don't scoff at the stuff Microsoft does(except maybe Bob ;) ). That'll only make them more likely to succeed. Take it ultimately as a serious threat to your freedom and respond to it as such.
In my humble opinion, I was expecting a very "big" announcement from Apple (Steve Jobs) today -- it looks like MS has, once again, taken over.
Karma stuck at 50? Add 2-5 inches.. err.. 2-5x Karmas Count to your pen1es.. err.. Karma all naturally and private
I don't know about other people's connectivity, but my cable modem connection is a bit flaky at times. Reguardless of how valuable or useful it may be, is Microsoft going to solve the problem bad ISP's? How is the average consumer going to know the cause is the ISP and not the device?
The idea of a mobile computing device that acts as a game, computer and universal remote is pretty cool. High end audio, video, entertainment systems are similar though very expensive.
Are people willing to reboot their DSL/Cable modem to get their universal remote to work, or will they pick up the other remote?
"The GB audience is little kids. They know "Game Boy" better than anything MS puts out."
I disagree about that.
I'm getting to the point of being annoyed with people immediately saying "Nintendo == Kids".
There are plenty of games that are just plain fun. Who cares what your friends think if you play a nintendo game if it's fun?
I own a Gamecube, and a Gameboy Advance (That I bought because of the linking feature with the gamecube) and I don't regret it.
I'm a 23 year old computer game enthusiast. I own Super Mario Kart advance, Super Mario advance, Doom, and even Monster Rancher advance.
In short, if it's fun play it. If your worried about what your friends think, don't. But don't call it "kiddie" which really doesn't mean anything.
I don't think that MS would have any serious trouble taking Nintendo's portable crown here. The GBA is, IMHO, several years behind the times. Remember the Sega portable? Now that was ahead of it's time. The color was great, and you could even get a TV adapter for it. If MS wanted to make a serious run at the GBA, I can all but guarantee victory. At least, it'll be a lot easier than the console market.
Synergy is your friend
And join the rest of us here in the real world. Microsoft will never produce anything to take the "crown" away from Nintendo in the portable market. Also, GameCube, given 1 or maybe even 2 years to mature, will prove itself as the dominant game console. Anyone who's played the consoles knows this. Oh and no, playing PIKIMIN or whatever in a Wal-Mart doesn't count. I'm talking about comparing comparable games, like Madden or Crazy Taxi, both released on several systems.
~ now you know
Nintendo owns the handheld market. The Game Boy has more games than any other system currently out (PS2 included), and has all of Nintendo's mascots. The GBA is cheap and has great games. (Nintendo made the most money of any video game publisher in 2000, too, even with the release of the PS2 and Dreamcast, all because of the Game Boy Color).
I think the XBOX has a shot at taking the older gamers, but the handhend will remain Nintendo's for a long time.
- It is an enormous source of potential revenue
- The barrier to entry is very high, so new competitors will be few and far between
- Their current competitors, in a word, suck
They're exploring the area because they want to make money. Given that most of us are still running Windows 98, it is obvious that selling useless OS "upgrades" doesn't pay as well as it used to. So they need to redesign the company so as to recreate their former glory.I'm getting to the point of being annoyed with people immediately saying "Nintendo == Kids".
I never said that Nintendo==Kids. I said that the audience that nintendo strives for for the gameboy is kids. I had an N64, and I think Nintendo has the best games ever (every game is fun, regardless of the title).
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Or you could do something *really* radical, and just not buy this new MS console, rather than just posting the standard 'mummy, mummy, its not fair, MS have done something else bad' whiny-assed opinion.
Jee-sus - if anything, this whole story is a fucking troll so the standard M$-h8ters can trot out the standard slashdot line. AGAIN!
Everywhere you look MSFT decide to make something for that arena, from handhelds to of course desktops.
Only exception is Linux...
Matt
As days goes, i read slashdot articles, their comments, about 1 hour a day.
I am just amazed by the level of idiocy that this site and its contributors have reached.
Given the size of the X-Box controller, will this be another controller that only works for people with hands the size of Andre the Giant's hands?
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Bill
The GBA has a beautiful (if dim) display, fantastic graphic capabilities for its size, runs on 2 AA batteries, and cost me $90. This vaporware device from MS isn't even close, and I don't think it's intended to be.
:-( And profit margins can't be too great with Visor units nearing the $100 mark. Then again, we know MS isn't always interested in short term profitability--not that they should be. If taking a loss for a couple years rewards them with 75% market share 3 or 4 years down the line, it's worth it. Witness IE--they provided it for free simply to blow the (admittedly poor) competition into oblivion. They've been >80% successful in this endeavor.
I have to agree that it looks like an attempt to get into the PDA market. Honestly, I'm surprised it's taken MS this long to make a push for it. A device like this would be convenient, popular, and completely proprietary. One has to wonder if they're a bit late getting into the market, though. Most people who want a PDA already have one--except me.
Wait and see, wait and see, I s'pose...
One of the reasons that I became a lawyer was to avoid ever having to hire one. -SPYvSPY
I use Linux. I've also used Win2k, and the thing is plenty crashy on me. I've also used WinMe, and it's quality is, if anything, WORSE than Windows 95.
I would find it hard to believe that no one else here has similar experiences - if anything, I would think that most of them would be similar to mine.
I'm hardly a closed mind - in fact, as of late I've been considering my next box being a Mac. The simple fact is, however, that Microsoft is not only a monopoly, but a maker of horrid products. I would dare any person who thinks so highly of Microsoft now to consider the fact that, twenty years from now, there will be no one but Microsoft, and the same software that crashes on your desktop computer will also be in nuclear power plants, air traffic control systems, cars, and God knows what else. Would you really trust your children to be sitting in the back seat of a car with ROM chips that had Microsoft software burned into them?
Unless they fall asleep at the wheel, the screen has to be better. My eyes almost fell out after a short time of playing with the GBA.
I'm a 23 year old computer game enthusiast. I own Super Mario Kart advance, Super Mario advance, Doom, and even Monster Rancher advance.
In short, if it's fun play it. If your worried about what your friends think, don't. But don't call it "kiddie" which really doesn't mean anything.
Friends?
By the Sega Portable, I assume you are referring to the "Game Gear."
It wasn't ahead of its time in the least, seeing that it was almost the exact same thing as the Sega Master System, only smaller.
The handheld system, IMO, that was ahead of its time was the Atari Lynx, as it was a 16-Bit handheld in the era of 16-Bit home consoles.
Game Gear and Game Boy were both 8-Bit systems.
Really, both the Game Gear and Lynx were superior
to the original Game Boy in just about everything
but battery life, but I'd say that only the Lynx
was "ahead of its time."
There was also a portable version of the Turbo
Grafx 16, IMO... but I don't know much about it.
I don't remember if it did have a backlit screen.
Sega later did release the "Nomad," which was essentially the same as the Genesis and also the "Genesis CD-X" which was a console that combined
the Genesis and Sega CD into one unit that was
about the size of a portable music CD player for the day, only about twice as thick.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
First: I'm not antiMS. I really don't like windows, and I really don't like MS's business practices, but that doesn't mean that I think all their products are bad: I like their hardware, I like their games, I think IE is a good browser, etc. So don't take this as a blind antiMS rant.
But I am absolutely sick of Microsoft expanding into so many territories. Why? Because they don't care about what they already produced.
Windows, it has a huge reputation of being unstable, but MS doesn't really do anything about it being unstable. Since they have basically control over the desktop market, they really don't bother to care about the end user.
Xbox, I have heard nothing but complaints about this thing. The 40% defunct rate, the horrible controllers. I remember hearing about how bad the controllers were from many different articles when Xbox was first debuted at E3 or wherever. And yet microsoft didn't care enough to change them.
/shrug.
I don't know. I'm done ranting.
"when life gets complicated, I like to take a nap in a tree and wait for dinner" - Hobbes.
Yes, mine are fine how are yours?
Link up Super Circuit brings back the days of the good old Super Mario Kart on SNES.
On the Gamecube we have Super Smash Bros. Melee, arguably one of the best party games ever.
I saw three little kids in carts this weekend playing their GBAs and I think that shows that the GBA is really for younger kids.
Yeah, I'm sure that's a representative sample. Man, the logic in these posts keeps getting wackier and wackier. Well, I was playing my GBA this weekend, and I think that shows that the GBA is really for 20 somethings.
--Steven
So, I was correct the other day when I predicted Microsoft would skip software and start doing hardware.
:(
Ok, so I was modded down to zero
With a name liked "MediaPad" they will not be taking the handheld gaming market from GameBoy Advanced any time soon.
What twelve year old kid is going to want to own a MediaPad?
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I support spreading santorum
(sarcasm) This is what we do. We all just give up. We capitulate to microsoft universal rule. Every product everywhere shall be microsoft produced. Eliminate all competition for microsoft. Maybe then they will reach that ever-elusive goal of actually releasing a product to the market that works. (/sarcasm) ... oops.. seems the sarcasm section should have ended one sentence earlier...
What could Microsofts weakness be? What do SONY and Microsoft have in common that Nintendo does not?
Their first priority is to DRM and content control. Microsoft is betting on BIG deals with the RIAA and MPAA member companies. Put simply they can't piss them off.
So what should Nintendo do? Simple. Modify the gamecube to play DVDs from any region. Make sure the DVD decoding is totally controled by one EASILY removable chip that is accessable by simply lifting a simple panel.
Won't the MPAA sue? You bet they will and it will be great for Nintendo. When the MPAA sues Nintendo they should convert to region based chips to signify cooperation.
This is a quadrupal win for Nintendo.
- They get free advertising as the "hackers" console
- They have an easily upgradable (to region free) chip
- They have a referance chip to reverse engineer. If Nintendo does it right there will be a half dozen aftermarket upgrades in a month.
- They have plausable deniability.
Now the DVD argument is moot. And the vaster game base from Xbox is countered by a hassle free, region free, dvd player built into Game Cube. Kick in the name recognition and Nintendo can relax and watch Microsoft DRM itself out of existance.I'd buy a GameCube DVD, wouldn't you?
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
Now if they can just make a screen that's not as reflecitve as the GBA screen so I can see what I am playing.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
they post 2years before any announce to try to kill their opponents ....
-AREAz.
"Microsoft anonunced that it will 500,000 units avalible for the launch....."
1 Mo later...
Inital reports of the microsoft mobile gaming device is a success, they were all sold out within a 3 weeks of inital release, unfortunatly, 450,000 were returned as defective units
I will bend your mind with my spoon
I dropped my $30 or so for Super Mario Advanced, which is a graphically improved Mario Brothers (yeah, the OLD arcade game that got rereleased on the NES later), and a slightly tweaked Super Mario Brothers 2.
Super Mario Advanced is the same Mario Brothers game for multiplayer, with Super Mario World as the mario game.
Mario Kart Advanced is a rerelease of the SNES Super Mario Kart.
I bought Dragon Warrior I & II for the Game Boy Color (to play on my GBA), rereleases of the old NES games.
The NES/SNES games are being rereleased for the GBC/GBA. Some GB (pre-color) are still on the market. I almost grabbed my first generation ones when visiting my folks, but figured I'd rather not sour their memory by replaying them. (Some NES/SNES games have had their memory ruinned for me by emulation)...
Unlike other companys, Nintendo doesn't truly abandon software... they rerelease it for handhelds later on. I'm sure that the Game Boy Super Advanced will be 3D and have N64 ports, and the Game Boy Super Duper Advanced will have some Game Cube ports.
Regardless, as another post set, the GBA is a great handheld for older gamers. It has 2D side-scrollers, RPGs, etc. All the games (and STYLE of games) that you loved on a NES/SNES are being released here, while the gaming market has moved on.
My parents loved the Atari, and would play my NES while I was asleep and found it frustrating. They couldn't handle the finger twitching of the NES.
I find that my Gamecube pushes my reflexes, and I doubt that I'll be able to keep up for much longer. When my kids are playing their systems 2 generations from now, I'm going to feel over the hill, while I did really well on my NES/SNES/SMS/S-Genny... N64 I was average, and now I'm over the hill.
Oh well,
Alex
P.S. If you live in a city and commute on a subway... GBA is great.
How will microsoft ever top the famous ding of the gameboy starting up? I mean, I've heard it so many times, it's music to my ears.
Ding... Ahh.. I've had my fix for the day.
=================
Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
What about price? They said this will be larger than a Pocket PC, but smaller than a tablet PC.
... I think there's a 27" flat HDTV you can get for less than that now -- throw in a nice DVD player to make it an even G. That's also as much or less than your joe sixpack PC.
Pocket PCs are $500 still, and tablet PCs are expected to run up to $2000 a whack. What's this puppy going to cost you? $1000? Too much
This is also more than just a gaming device too.
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I see no evidence that Nintendo is interested in anything other than TV and handheld game machines. They are not interested in DVD's, MP3's, the web or other multimedia/general computing unlike Microsoft. Granted, Microsoft has dipped it's feet in the game industry with the X-Box, but everyone who's reviewed it has something negative to say and with good reason.
Microsoft focused on the fastest processor, most amount of memory, lots of storage (for caching and game saves) which is important in the computer market but not necessarily in the game market. Console Game players are interested in the playability/funness factor of a game over the graphics/specs of the game. Take Halo (Xbox) for example, it's nice looking and could be lots of fun, but it just screams for a mouse and keyboard. It needs lots of buttons (all the time) and it needs a FPS movement that only a mouse in "mouselook" mode can really deliver on. Where as if you look at Luigi's Mansion (GameCube) you use very few controls (all the time) and it's movement is very natural for a "gamepad" controller, it would not be natural for a keyboard and mouse. Microsoft's mistake is taking what they know about computers and trying to apply that to a console, whereas Nintendo has been in business since 1951 and started selling video games in 1971, in that tine they have learned a thing or two about making a fun, playable game. This is one market Microsoft will NOT dominate in.
Nothing for end users? Used XP? It's great and very stable. It runs on my Thinkpad T23 I use for work that hasn't been turned off in 3 months. It finally blue screened the other day when Shockwave had a fight with the video driver (bad vid driver..way old driver). Try again. Not everyone still runs Win95.
40% defunct rate on XBox? WTF?! There was a story the other day where less than 1% were defective. That's about right. They only shipped like 1.5 million of them. Bet you couldn't get them all perfect either.
The idea of a company is to make money. That's it. It's not to make the world a happy place. If you don't like what they sell, don't buy. Sorry Slashdot, but people need money to pay bills and get food. I'd like to honestly know how many Slashdot posters are living on their parent's dime at college.
I bought a Cube the day they came out and love it. I didn't buy an XBox because I didn't think they'd do well. Well, my wife got me one for Christmas and I LOVE IT. It just seems to be a better overall system than the Cube. I love Nintendo, remember many days playing my NES. I collect consoles and have almost every one ever made....
But, the XBox is good. It does DVD. Almost every game supports widescreen. It has Dolby Digital sound. Why oh why does the Cube not do Dolby Digital? You haven't lived until you've played Halo with DD5.1. It uses it better than almost any movie....
Damn you Microsoft!
I would like to ask if I can run my favorite Linus game, DOOM, on this.
I have a beowulf cluster of them runnint niLux for my DOOM servers and I would like to play it now, portably, on the MS game cube compettitor.
DOOM is a fun game in which you shoot evil monsters and humans. When you shoot the evil humans it is scary because they say, "Hey! Hey!". I can get over 30 fps when I run it on my beowulf clusters on which I run the Linus OS.
The article is pretty insiteful and true to boot.
It's like the saying "That which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger". So yes, eaxh build gets better and better - Just because Nintendo has a brand name doesn't mean that a contender can't come in and make a name for themselves. Microsoft has come under fire and is watched under a magnifying glass now.
Would this same article have appeared here id AOL/Time Warner were to come out with their own versions of a hand held?
Sure, it's Microsoft, but I think the days of monopolistic methods by them are over - too many critics out there to pull any shenenagins again - I look forward to the competition coming up on handhelds - it's better for the consumer in the long term.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Yeah, the stuff about content control was amusing. Since when has that been an issue with consoles? Oh, he means from now on!! Speculation! We`ll see.
Think about who plays the GBA right now. I see them mostly in the hands of kids between 7 and 12 years old. These kids are not going to care enough about the extra features Microsoft wants to have in this device. If Microsoft sells them at huge losses to compete with the $90 price of a GBA, they can do that. But even then, they will have to recover the cost somehow, which means game costs will be higher than the $20-40 for GBA games. Sure, some spoiled brats can afford that or whine enough to get their parents to buy it. But most parents are going to put their foot down. Older kids might steel some market share from Nintendo, but as it stands right now, Microsoft isn't likely to steal the portable audience from Nintendo.
The Xbox tends to be an enterteinment center, capable of doing games, DVD, Internet and more. The Gamecube does only games, but does them nicely.
Same is with Mira vs. GBA. Mira tends to do many home-entertainment things. GBA is for playing.
See? Same difference. I think Nintendo will do fine, for the time being.
Sigged!
Of course the collarilary to their "wins" would be that they would never be allowed to sell such a device (could never get the DVD licenses for a device with easily removable regioning), they would defeat their copy-protections measures which depends partly on only having those little disks, and people would contiunally break the panel and the easily removable chips pushing or fry the whole system with untrusted third party mod-chips which would push their support costs sky high. Yea great move. Nintendo has better things to do then completely tank the Gamecube. Besides who says the market cannot support three similar systems. None of the companies are bad finically like Sega was and all are determined to stay in the market. It may not of worked in the past but past performance of the market is no indication of future results. Or so says the SEC.
Editors, please read the article before making up absurd claims.
If you've played the Quake port to the iPaq, you'd be wondering why this hasn't happened sooner. The graphics capability on the iPaq BLOWS the GBA away. Even with the GameShark, the GBA's screen is practically useless anywhere other than standing on the sun. Games, schmames. It's all in the development effort. If its easier to build games for XBox, the games will come. As that freaky voice guy said in Field of Dreams, 'If you build it, they will come'. If MS can one-up the GBA with better graphics capability, you'll be certain to see a catalogue of games grow behind it.
I'm just waiting for MS to buy out Nintendo and port all of the games to X-Paq/XBox/XPad. Maybe Sega had the right idea all along...
I think the big problem with this idea is that anyone who thinks of portable gaming will immediately think "Gameboy", even the old folks, because that's been the standard since 1985 and it's still going today. Market recognition is a huge factor in this.
As a little anecdote, I walked into a Future Shop yesterday with a buddy to buy his PS2. This guy doesn't follow the news much, but still he loves games and rents stuff all the time. Well this 'buddy' thought the XBox was compatible with both PS2 and GCN software.. why ? because that's what he heard from his idiot coworkers and friends, and there was little or no media coverage to bring light on the new console.
We see PS2 ads all over the place : TV, movie theatres, and they have large displays in most stores. The Gamecube might not need that much publicity, since Nintendo is an established household name wherever kids are to be found, going hand-in-hand with Pokemon. But Microsoft ? We know M$, but does my mother-in-law know M$ ? Hell no, she probably thinks Windows _IS_ the computer, and that it's made by Dell or Compaq. Why does she not understand this ? Because you don't see many Microsoft products at Mallwart, Costco or any other non-PC store. Gates' company may very well be a cornerstone of modern computing, but outside that realm they are the new kid on the block for every other market segment.
That's why they have no chance of dethroning Nintendo, not today.. perhaps in ten or fifteen years.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
This doesn't sound like the XBOY, of which there have been some rumors circulating for about a year now. This sounds bigger.. But the way the Slashdot article puts it "GBA competitor".. I don't know. The original ZDNet article makes it sound more like a super powered remote control or PDA - not a handheld game console..
At this rate, we'll need another dozen years or so before appropriate legislation is forthcoming. Bill Gates as the Rockerfeller of the Desktop is not a pleasant a picture as some would like. And yet there are many who are sentimental and nostalgic for those times, which were not bad if you were upperclass.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
If they give it a backlit screen.... yes
Yes, that was funny. Yes, IE is dominant, but Netscape is still around. No, that was not relevant, in any way, to the discussion about game consoles.
~ now you know
Nintendo has already sold several million gamecubes both in the USA and Asia, the launch sales alone have ensures that Nintendo will do well from the cube.
Why on earth would nintendo redo the cube from the start to include DVD playback (everything from a new box up), bringing with it the rampant piracy problems the ps1 did suffer from the and ps2 is starting to have.
Nintendo need only one thing to carry on doing well for years to come - games, and they make great ones at nice profit margins for them.
Microsoft are spending $500Million at marketing the X-Box? Sony are still out-selling them today with the 18month old PS2 selling at the same pricepoint as X-box, and the Gamecube is outselling it worldwide too im sure since Nintendo successfully carried out a launch in both Asia and the USA when Microsoft obviously hasn't heard of other continents yet.
People forget the largest computer games market in the world is Japan, and there the X-box hasn't made a scratch yet. It will be 2 years or more before anyone knows the real winners in this round of the console wars, but right now the winner is Sony - profitable with PS2, everything from this point onwards is just extra cash for them. Whether Microsoft managed to scrape back the initial outlay they have done is probable, but not a certainty.
"The barrier to entry is very high, so new competitors will be few and far between"
What about Indrema?
(see subject of this post)
After reading the comments, it seems only a handful of people really read beyond the headline and found that MS is making a more 'all in one unit' for TV/Internet (their whole strive lately) which seems to be more PDA then anything else. My Visor plays games, that make it a GBA competitor? Not really...
/. should stop using the 'attention grabbing' headlines and be a little more subjective and on target sometimes. It's the difference between reading the New York Times to the Post, or the Boston Globe compared to the Herald.
/. MS bashing more seriously if there wasn't 100% anti MS articles day in and day out, a lot of them misleading.
Make sure you click on the articles and
Also people would take the
I hate MS like many people, but there's enough bad things they do/want to do, that if you embelish everything, its the same as crying wolf...
I have tried Win2K, it took several hours to install, due to it freezing randomly while trying to load drivers for every piece of PC hardware in existence (so it seemed anyway) and then was massively unstable whenever I tried to use it, ending up with me installing Win98 back over it. My machine is a stock PIII-500, bought at the end of 1999, without any esoteric hardware at all, and after the hassles I had and the financial loss of buying said junk and it being useless to me I refuse ever to give Microsoft my money again.
Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
agreed on all points.
_______
2B1ASK1
And Microsoft is releasing this handheld for free? Or giving it away with every copy of Windows?
Neglecting the lessons of history is one thing, but learning the difference between history and the present is also important.
Ahem.
I think there is an argument to be made that having a de facto monopoly and engaging in monopolistic (read unreasonable) business practices are not always the same thing. And I don't expect the monopolistic business practices, such as they are to go away any time soon. Although, I'll agree with you that trying to open new markets is not necessarily a monopolistic business practice; and it's also true that even if they deserved it, MS probably will not ever get a fair shake here on /.
I do agree that the last few iterations of commercial varieties of Windows have made massive strides in reliability. Of course, the security is pretty bad as is demonstrated about every few days.
Netscape on Linux, yeah, that's been disappointing since the days of 3.0; but Konqueror and Opera both run very nicely and Opera is downright fast.
Oops
There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My First Post is my best friend.
It is my reason for having a login.
I must master it, as I must master my login.
Without me my First Post is useless.
Without my First Post, I am useless.
I must post my First Post quickly.
I must post faster than Anonymous Cowards who are trying to humiliate me.
I must post quickly before he First Posts ahead of me.
I will.
Before God I swear this creed.
My First Post and myself are defenders of Slashdot.
We are the masters of Anonymous Cowards.
We are the saviours of my login.
So be it... until there are no Anonymous Cowards... but peace.
Amen.
----------
Copyright © 2002 - Tasty Beef Jerky
This post is free for use so long as it is posted anonymously.
----------
Second, win2000 does crash. My wife crashed it last night with just a single instance of realplayer running. Granted it didn't 'blue screen' but accepting no input and just plain freezing is not quite the advancement in stability you talk about. I will concede that MS has done better with 2000 and I assume with XP as well. But guess what? So has linux. Linux bashers used it 1-2 years ago and they still cry 'no-user-friendly-apps'. Guess what? Linux has evolved faster than anything out there including windows. You talked about Netscape and Mozilla... Ever tried Galeon? Konqueror (in it's new incarnation) ? Just as windows has evolved to be more 'stable' (as you say), Linux has just gotten better. Try evolution..., galeon..., staroffice...
And yes I dual boot to win2000. Actually, I have it on my laptop. The last time I used it was quite a while ago. Why? well, I can't get a lot of features in IE that i get in galeon. Tabbed-view. Bookmark-management..
You are right, Linux proponents can't always use "it's more stable" arguement to the same affect as before. But Linux is still a lot more stable. Windows is just catching up. And on the flip side, Windows-proponents can't use the "It's non use-friendly" arguement anymore. In fact, everytime i boot to windows, i feel boxed-in with the lack of tools and options that i boot right back to linux. you should give a recent distribution a try. you'll be surprized.
(This is so off-topic it's silly. But I'm posting it anyway.)
The simple fact is, however, that Microsoft is not only a monopoly, but a maker of horrid products.
I agree that their products are pretty unpleasant-- ugly, clumsy, tasteless-- but I think the quality argument is getting weaker and weaker across the board.
I've been using a Windows 2000 system on my desk at work for over a year. The OS has never crashed in that time.
I own an iBook that I've had since September. I've been running OS X on it since that time, and it hasn't crashed on me, either.
I also have a dual-processor G4 at work. It's never crashed, either.
It's not all that hard to find a Windows or a Mac OS computer these days that has never crashed. The classic argument for Linux-- it doesn't crash-- isn't a very strong one these days.
In fact, in my world, Linux is less reliable than Windows 2000 or OS X. I spent several hours last week debugging a USB problem on one of my coworker's workstations. Whenever he plugged in his USB-serial adapter, the machine would kernel panic. Turns out some driver modules were loading in the wrong order. Yes, it's good that I had everything I needed to fix it myself. But it's bad that I had to.
I'm not trashing Linux in particular; I'm just saying that PC-class software quality overall has improved dramatically in the past two years. I think Linux advocates are going to need a new killer argument.
"Xbox has two things that Game cube dosn't. DVD playback capability,"
Customers that want DVD playback capability as well as GameCube games can get the Panasonic Q. And like the PS2 (and UNLIKE the XBox), it will play DVDs out of the box.
"and an easy, low effort revenue stream for successful Win PC game makers."
As has been repeated ad nauseum, there is no such thing as an easy way to transition from PC to console game writing. No patches, no add-ons, no expansion packs, not even a real operating system. Making a dent in the console world requires a different philosophy than in the PC world. Once a game is released, it had better be self-contained and done.
Besides, how many PC gamers do you know of that, if given the chance, would buy an Xbox and however many games instead of a shiny new PC?
Some day MS will have control over your PC, TV, Game Console, Remote, Handheld, Frig, Toaster, Oven, Car, toys, and much more.
Microsoft continues it's monopolistic ways by developing new technologies that they themselves may not make, but what will run it? The OS.
So many people still continue to over look this nightmare while Microsoft's tentacles continue to plunge into new areas feeding a machine that may never be over powered.
I don't understand how some folks can set back and say that we are just flaming MS. This is truly something that should scare anyone. Not only as a consumer, but a human.
Just think, this may be some what OT, but how much of our information is passed through Microsoft software. One company in the world that in some way touches your life, whether you like it our not.
I look at it as a cause. I'll use Linux, play my PS2, and maybe this weekend buy a GBA.
God Moving Over the Face of Waters
What does BSOD look like on a 2" LCD?
Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
Isn't that a monopoly?
Think about what you wish for...
No, that isn't what *I* wish for. Neither do I want M$ on every desktop. I simply want a software market free of underhanded manipulation. I want to buy a PC with either (or neither) OS without wondering what signed-in-blood contracts MS may have or had with the OEM's
I want a market where the competition truly is on quality, not who can throw the largest bribes around.
I've said before in many posts I happen to like Microsoft's products. Just not their practices.
GTRacer
- Think you're in shape? Try DDR on Catastrophic...
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
I am not saying that a Palm could be competion to a GBA, but they could have easily given a nod to the gaming market and it wouldn't have hurt it in any way that I can see.
Yes I know that you can use the other buttons, but that is really a sloppy solution to a simple problem.
Lasers Controlled Games!
The device seems to be more of a PDA to rival the Palm and others than a rival to the Gameboy. Its primary focus is not gameplay. Even MS themselves says in the article:
As such, Mira would mirror many functions of personal digital assistants (PDAs), such as devices based on Microsoft's Pocket PC operating sytem.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
Hmmm.. a noisy hand held device that remotely talks to my computer. Yep, if i get one I'm calling it Ziggy.
"Derp de derp."
Personally, I'm fed up of random lusers from the interent calling Windows 2000/XP "reliable". They don't know the meaning of the word, it seems. All these people coming out of the woodwork saying "Windows == reliable" smacks of an astroturfing campaign. My personal experience suggests that Windows XP is NOT comaprably reliable to Linux or a BSD.
With the $100 price difference between the Cube and the xbox, we were able to buy a DVD player in addition to our Cube and still rack up a total price of less than the xbox alone would have cost. Not to mention that to some gamers (or their parents) $200 seems a lot more reasonable than $300 - for a system without games. In addition, many people had DVD players before the purchased a game system, meaning they don't even need to use the DVD playback option on their game systems.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
Though this device appears to be more of a PDA than a game machine, it makes sense from MS's pov to come out with sich a thing.
I'm betting a version of this, configured more as a game handheld will follow.
Microsoft's domination of the software industry depends on their being able to cut off the "air supply" of compeditors. Leaving the handheld market to Nintendo gives them revenue that they can use to fund their competition (game cube) to the MS X Box.
It's just an application of MS's playbook in the PC industry. This is why MS makes Mac apps, since people DO use Macs, they MUST have them using MS Office, not another app that might end up ported to `Doze and compete.
This is why MS is fighting Linux tooth and nail. They can't afford it getting too large, so that it's a big enough market to fund non-MS app software development.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
I wonder if the device will sport a version of the Microsoft eBook reader. The REB-1100 is nice for portability, but the .rb format is not common. It would be nice to have a portable device that could read eBooks in a more common (though microsoft) format.
-- Minds are like parachutes... they work best when open.
Don't scoff at the stuff Microsoft does(except maybe Bob ;) )
Hey, now - I liked Bob! It was the best damned screensaver ever for Windows!
Sounds like conspiracy to commit fraud against the MPAA, or conspiracy to circumvent the DMCA to me.
I think a better plan would be to get more games that appeal to a wider range of people, & don't charge an arm and a leg for them.
The (Hopefully) Great Slashdot Blackout Apr 21-27
So they launch something that's *tied to* the xbox, that's just a terminal for the xbox, and that doesn't fit in a pocket (or so the zdnet article says), and it's a 'GBA competitor'? Perhaps people could read the articles before posting them, and before commenting on them?
I apologize for the lack of a signature.
Personally, I'm fed up of random lusers from the interent....
Coming from an AC, that statement seems to lack a certain credibility....
Intel got exclusive rights to StrongARM
Nintendo got exclusive rights to Atlantis
since GBA is just a ARM7 + custom sound off the APB
Wrong. The GBA programming model includes a 16.78 MHz ARM7TDMI, plus custom chips that do DMA (that is, hardware-accelerated memcpy()), legacy tone generation, sound FIFOing, pulse-width modulation, and background and sprite scrolling, scaling, and rotation. (Read More...)
different enough that nitendo cant sue and developers have to recompile but easy enought that you could have a compiler switch do all the work
Sorry, it's not as easy as a recompile of a program that uses the Allegro library. The graphics subsystems may be too different. AFAIK, Windows CE devices use only a dumb frame buffer; GBA has six modes, three character graphics modes (some include affine mapping) with up to 128 sprites on top, and three framebuffer modes with up to 128 sprites on top.
(except the sound and that could be redone easy enough)
Heck, Nintendo even calls the GBA's FIFO-based sound system "Direct Sound," no relation to Microsoft's DirectSound.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I don't care if the X-Box has more heavy duty hardware, the truth is, PS2 has more/better games that have the same graphic detail (not to mention that the X-Box controller is horrible). So when is Sony going to enter the handheld gaming market and take that over too? I mean, this past Christmas, Sony still beat Microsoft and Nintendo in sales, and this was the second Christmas their console was out.
geek n performer who performs morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken
I have been waiting for two years for a rechargable color pocket pc that does MP3 & "real" games. That's everything. Those are all the "killer apps" I need for a portable (assuming 6gb+ of storage) Hell, make it a phone as well, and I'm in heaven. One device to rule them all!
> After seeing their latest offerings (the N64 and
.vbs macro virus goes and infects all the Microsoft media pads scattered around the nations...
> Gamecube) lose money hand over fist, Nintendo
> finally learned that their core competency was in
> creating mediocre handheld gaming systems,
First: Gamecube came RIGHT AFTER Game Boy Advance.
Gamecube was announced BY SURPRISE when
> and blaming a dearth of features on the
> "compromises" they needed to make in order to
> accomodate the handheld form factor. This
> strategy worked very well... until now.
Well, the strategy worked well because the console
market wants spectacular videogames at the smallest
cost possible. PSX won in Italy because of piracy
and everywhere else because it costed the 50% of Dreamcast, and original games were those 20$ less
and 10x full of videos of N64 ones.
Game Boy Advance won against Wonderswan and Neo Geo
Pocket also for these reasons (not counting SNK going out of business).
> Sega couldn't beat them with a color unit, and
> many others tried and failed to emulate the
> success of the Game Boy.
> Unfortunately, Nintendo's poor business sense and
> lack of R&D has finally caught up to them.
Plain Wrong. Pokemon and Zelda 64, and all those
freaking mario fans that will never go away are
the bucking symbol that Nintendo is plentiful of
business sense. Also that Sega choose Game Cube as another platform to release videogames (instead of going totally XBox) and another conversion of Phantasy Star Online shows that Nintendo is plenty of business sense. And for what regards R&D, Rogue Squadron is a more impressive game than anyone that could possibly run on my Athlon 1400 + Radeon 64Mb (remember: Radeon's core is Gamecube graphic's core).
> They are fighting an 800-lb gorilla that has
> billion$ of dollars to spend on dominating every > area of the market that it enters. And it looks
> like Microsoft is about to release a very
> versatile, multipurpose handheld device that will
> blow all of Nintendo's offerings right out of the
> water.
Until the same old boring
Link up Super Circuit brings back the days of the good old Super Mario Kart on SNES.
And some of the bugs in both implementation and specification.
On the Gamecube we have Super Smash Bros. Melee
I agree that SSB2 is the best thing since SSB1 (the Mario Party games suck eggs), but unlocking half the hidden stuff requires unlocking all the hidden characters, and one of the characters requires playing 1,000 Vs. matches at 5 minutes a piece. Is this just a way to get players to buy more controllers when they wear out?
Will I retire or break 10K?
get over this dvd playback thing.. anyone that has money to waste on consoles and console games will be much happier to buy an actual dvd player. They are so cheap and they are made just for that purpose.
I'd buy a plain old GameCube too, and already have. A surprising number of people don't give a rat's ass about DVD on a game console. Nintendo is still doing what it has always done, build a solid gaming console. Nintendo knows their market and caters to them.
Uh-huh. So you have parties where you sit around and play video games? Interesting. And to think all of this time I've been going to parties where we socialize with nice young ladies, play billiards and drink. Next time I'm gonna break out the video games and we can really get wild!
the question is, can they take the crown from Nintendo?
Yeah, easy - just build a color screen you can play without a light.
I'm a 2000 man.
region free is marginally useful for those who live in the United States. Most movies come out first in the USA anyways and are reasonably cheap.
So what should Nintendo do? Simple. Modify the
gamecube to play DVDs from any region. Make sure
the DVD decoding is totally controled by one
EASILY removable chip that is accessable by simply
lifting a simple panel.
How is this simple? What you're suggesting would require a COMPLETE redesign of the Cube hardware.
That's a nice little pipe dream you have there, but it's not going to happen. If you want a DVD player, buy a DVD player. Don't expect Nintendo to spend millions on R&D for a Gamecube 2.0 and risk making an enemy of Big Media just so you don't have to spend $200 for a separate DVD unit at Best Buy.
While Nintendo currently have the hand-held crown it stopped accepting developers for the GBA a long time ago claiming that 400 was enough. From the handful of decent titles I'd guess it isn't.
Just because you can't sign up for Wario World (Nintendo's official developer support program) doesn't mean you can't develop GBA games and get published with one of the Tier-B publishers. If you want to get into GBA development, get yourself VisualBoyAdvance and GCC targeted for ARM7TDMI and start hacking. Then you can try your games on hardware with an MBV2 cable or Flash Advance Linker from Lik-Sang
Like the GBA it would almost certainly use an ARM chip as that's the only supported processor for Windows 'CE' 2002.
ARM or MIPS or PowerPC or x86 makes little difference compared to the graphics chip. Nintendo's GBA supports up to 128 sprites on top of four layers of scrolling, two layers of scrolling and one layer of rotation, two layers of rotation, or a bitmap. IIRC, Windows CE devices have only a bitmap and no hardware sprites, not even one for a mouse pointer because most of them are pen-based.
Will I retire or break 10K?
How do you go from:
serve as a portable game player in conjunction with Microsoft's Xbox video game console.
to:
Nintendo will have a competition in the handheld market soon.
Even when you read the article, it is pretty clear that this device is more a tablet PC than a portable gaming system. Comparing the media pad to the GBA is like comparing my desktop PC to my PS2, it just doesn't make sense. And they don't compete with each other either.
The media pad will have to be coupled with the Xbox in order to function as a gaming system, and even that won't be its intended target. They plan to use it to provide some PDA functions and add functionality to interactive TV apps and other weird things.
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
For the past few months, I've been alternately using Win2K and Redhat 7.2 on my Thinkpad A20m. After upgrading my Win partition from 98 to 2K, I will say that I have experienced much greater stability with 2K. However, the installation process was horrific, and Win2K did not detect my ethernet card or my modem during installation. Redhat 7.1, which I had installed a bit earlier, detected my ethernet card during the installation process, and I was easily able to install a patch for my winmodem. Today, my 2K partition still does not recognize my modem, despite many hours of struggle with drivers. I gladly use linux for my day-to-day work online and use Opera for crash-free browsing. I have given Win2K much of my time and given it a fair chance; I do not use it often because it is just not as good as linux, not because I have some unsubstantiated anti-MS bias.
And for the record, I've spent lots of time playing SSX Tricky with my brother on his Game Cube, and I've fallen in love with Nintendo all over again. I never had a Game Boy as a kid, but am seriously contemplating getting a GBA when I can spare the cash. It's just a great system for people of any age.
"Equal bytes for women!"
Microsoft are spending $500Million at marketing the X-Box? Sony are still out-selling them today with the 18month old PS2 selling at the same pricepoint as X-box, and the Gamecube is outselling it worldwide too im sure since Nintendo successfully carried out a launch in both Asia and the USA when Microsoft obviously hasn't heard of other continents yet.
The PS2 will always be #1 this round, it's got such a head start and massive game library it'd be impossible to say otherwise.
However, you say the Gamecube is selling it worldwide: Is that really fair? Xbox isn't available outside North America. Where the Xbox and Gamecube and PS2 compete, the most up to date numbers are:
PS2: 6.6 Million
Xbox: 1.3 Million
Gamecube: 1.2 Million
Microsoft will demonstrate on Monday a tablet-shaped device that will serve as a bridge between the TV, the PC and the company's .Net services, according to sources familiar with the plans. These sources also say that no one will care, as everyone is watching theMacworld Keynote after Sunday's press leak of the new iMac.
--Dan
just got a GBA. I'm 25. I don't care what anyone says about it being for kids(sure most games are for kids) Tony hawk 2 is damn good, so is Golden Sun,etc. $99 and I can get a flash linker to download 64 megs worth of games or CODE I'VE WRITTEN(using free tools off the net)Hmmm. Just being able to carry around a portable that I can write games/code for is worth the money alone. Now, the only thing I want is for someone to write some PDA software for it. Lets see. $400 for compaq ipaq/ hp jornada or whatever with a color screen. for less than half the cost, you can have a kickass portable game system with the potential to develop your own applications, games,etc.
I have some problems with device.
It simply does too much! Its a cross between one of the expensive LCD remotes, a palm pilot, xbox control, a gameboy advance, and shopping kit all in one.
This device is going to be similar to windows media player. If you want to do anything you'll have to wade through an advertisment. Why is this a problem? Well I've already paid for my media, why do I have to pay to watch it again? Not to mention the fact that many bugs are introduced by quirky internet response and malicious users.
As for the remote control part of it, this is a remote that literatly doesn't want you to change that channel. Imagine channel surfing, but you remote is too busy downloading content on Jennifer Somebody's sweater. I don't care about her sweater, and frankly I don't want you sending information to someone that I am looking at her sweater (added spyware, whoppie!)!
This device is going to be bulky, expensive and with advertising, and if were lucky spyware. Microsoft I hope you fall on your ass on this one.
Rob
the console crown. I really really hope the MS comes out on top in this war. Since the nintendo 8 bit gamers have been forced to watch in envy as japan is ALLWAYS first to get the NEWEST GAMES and systems. How many times did you read a gamepro, EGM or other similiar magazine, seen a game that looked totally awesome but it was going to be released japan first? It really pisses me off to the point WHERE I GOT TO TYPE IN CAPS.
I miss the good ol days when an american company was king of the console hill (i.e. atari) and i'm not very paticular who is trying to become the next american console king, even if it is LUCIFER in the eyes of the slash crew.
The XBox is already a region free DVD player. Good idea, though.
Nintendo has been in business since 1891. They originally made playing cards. ( and yes I'm picking nits).
11 was a racehorse
12 was 12
1111 Race
12112
The damn subject line told you it was a TROLL!!!!
Not karma whoring, T.R.O.L.L.!!
Now somebody post a 800 line diatribe on "Linux consoles -- a Ridiculous commie myth"!
This article was completely misrepresented by the slasdot summary. After reading the device, it sounds nothing like a GBA, or a GBA competitor. Maybe slashdot users don't know what Terminal Services is.
The device is based on Terminal Services. For all you linux users out there, it means its just a DISPLAY for processes running on another device. Think of it as a dumb X-Windows display.
Sure, it might show incredible graphics that are rendered on the XBOX 6 feet away from you, because its just painting the pixels, it doesn't need the fancy 3D hardware, etc. But my point is, the XBOX will have to be 6 feet away! This isn't a device you would take to school, take on a plane, take everywhere that you take a gameboy.
From the article:
"Microsoft's Terminal Server software shifts many computing functions off the device and onto other computers--owned either by the individual or by a service provider. Consumers can't really use a Mira device without a persistent connection to a more powerful computer."
The only way it could come close to competing with the portability of the GBA (which is the whole reason you use a GBA), is if it uses a constant connection to a nationwide wireless network. Then you are talking monthly fees.
Not a competitor in my book.
Yeah, sure GBA is great, when you can actually see whats on the screen.
That's because early games' palettes didn't correct for the GBA display's gamma of 4. Newer games compensate for this with a lookup table.
I want a fuckin' backlight.
"Fuckin" and "back" I can't help you with, but "light" is coming very soon. Watch this site for updates.
Will I retire or break 10K?
If and when I need a PDA, I'll get a Palm. Right now, my Blackberry's PDA capabilities are sufficient. The GBA is fun. I enjoy playing Golden Sun, an amazing game. I don't expect to do work on my GBA... I have a laptop, I may get the Samsung Cell Phone/Palm IIIc combo, but who knows.
Not everything in life needs to do work. Sometimes I want to relax, and IR Chess seems less fun and relaxing than Golden Sun.
To each their own...
Alex
The PS2 will always be #1 this round, it's got such a head start and massive game library it'd be impossible to say otherwise.
Very true the US numbers don't look as good. I am more concerned with my US options as a US person.
Thanks everyone for responding. I said what I said with some scepticism myself.
A few things from the comments so far....
Yes what I said was speculation, if it wasn't it would be history.
I am assuming the 2 console rule. Which means PS2 has one of the slots down cold. The other is up for grabs. Since Xbox is going after grownups and Game Cube for kids, they are not competing heavily yet. They will start competing eventually though, it's just a matter of time before somebody starts that fight. This will go to round two.
When they do start competing heavily, it will be to late for Nintendo to start this moving.
If Nintendo's lawyers say they can't do an inital release region free they can still make the chip physically very modular and use a commonly understood unencrypted flash protocol to program it. Then the aftermarket will take care of the last step. Voltage/burnout problems are not unworkable. Don't underestimate the virute of customizability even for customers who don't understand what the good part of customization is. The key here is plausible denyability. The current lack of DVD ability is the perfect guise for reconstruction.
DVDs are exploding. In the past two months Blockbuster dumped half it's VHS section and balanced out DVD's and VHS for floorspace. In another year some things will be dvd only. People without geek budgets will need players.
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
It's not unfair in that the previous post stated that Nintendo had no chance and we're about to lose everything.
For that to happen, Microsoft will have to break Nintendos hold on the Japanese market, something they haven't even dared enter yet.
Many reasons which include but are not limited to:
1) GBA is $90
Microsoft can't produce anything decent at the price.
2) GBA batteries last a _long_ time.
MS's will most likely be backlit and that will eat the batteries.
3) What does MS know about portable gaming? Nintendo's got the track record.
4) Who doesn't know what a game boy is?
Its got name recognition equal to nintendo. Both are sysnonimous with gaming.
5) Nintendo's got way to far a head start, as there will be a sequel to GBA and it will also be revolutionary.
Care to disagree/agree?
I seem to recall you posting basically this exact same thing a few months ago... I'm not real sure, but I would say almost upfront, you cut'n'pasted most of that out of your old post.
ok wise ass... my windows xp just rebooted itself for no reason because I selected the desktop properties... and continues to do so everytime I try to select the desktop properties.
Maybe if you gave us the stop error we'd feel sorry for you. Now you just sound like a lamer.
No patches, no add-ons, no expansion packs, not even a real operating system. Making a dent in the console world requires a different philosophy than in the PC world. Once a game is released, it had better be self-contained and done.
And why did MS include a harddrive with the system. Probably just for these things that the PC developers would want to do. I really think that the harddrive is the end of the nice,easy and rarely crashing consoles.
They created the Xbox, and couldn't stand to have anything less than what was put in it, greatly increasing it's size. Their hideously large Xbox logo could not be omitted from the standard controller, also making it bothersome. Can Microsoft humble themselves enough to produce a handheld appliance that isn't, say, as big as your head?
I think the poster missed the fact that they're outselling their first NES system by a boatload with their Gamecube and are saying this is going to be their best selling quarter in the companies history. They actually made money off the N64 also when Zelda was finally released. Perhaps the poster didn't notice the shortage of N64 consoles from people buying it solely for the Zelda game.
Anyways, the original post should be modded down to -5; Troll...
Thanks.
I really can't wait.
When I see someone walking down the street with one of these things, I'm gonna smash it into little pieces all over the place.
Get your Unix fortune now!
> most people that use linux exclusively hasn't even tried Win2K
or, from my experience use linux because of the crap forcefed them for the last 15 years.
> which has yet to crash or bluescreen on me
that makes one.
> Netscape on linux, and mozilla on linux crashes more than anything on win2k for me
neither have crashed on me, which is about as good as your argument about win-oh-oh.
> But I'm talking to closed minds here.
sounds more like you're speaking from one......
> MS's quality to find its stronger than the last time they used it
well, it's been awhile since I've had any involvement with academic mathmatics, but I seem to recall anything times zero is still zero....
bottom line is you whine about the quality of what's written here, and yet you're no different than those you're whining about.
They announced this as being their most profitable quarter in the companies entire history. Even blowing away the original NES and Gameboy sales quarters. They are MAKING MONEY off each HARDWARE unit of the GameCube which MS and Sony are NOT. They are LOSING money in hopes to sell more systems and the games will rake the lost revune back. This is what a lot of console makers do .. The system is not their money maker, it's the games. Well, Nintendo has BOTH money makers with the Gamecube. DVD playerback was never an option. If you look at the PS2 and XBox they have so many compatability issues it's not even funny. Who would want a DVD player that doesn't play hardly any movies? Akira doesnt work on ANY of them. Even after Sonys 4 software ROM revisions for their DVD player Akira STILL hangs. If you look at the lists for both systems there are countless awesome movies that just dont work. THATS why Nintendo didnt chose DVD playback. Trying to keep a console compatable for movies (Which isnt even the point of a console!) is a frustrating business. Nintendo has already claimed the crown, IMO. I have 1 friend with an XBox, and know 3 others with a Gamecube, and 2 with PS2s. The fact that my friends are asking me to bring my Gamecube to their apts to play Super Smash Bro's tells me something: Sony and MS have no hope when Zelda/Mario/Metroid are out within the year.
If Mozilla and Netscape are crashing there's something wrong with your setup. Firstly, don't use Netscape, because it sucks, secondly, try running Mozilla from bash with debug flags on, it may tell you what's going wrong.
Sure, XP has bugs (all new OS's do. Try and tell me that Linux 1.0 didn't crash or have bugs.)
Windows XP is NOT a new operating system it is merely the latest VERSION of Windows. You'd think that after a decade or more of programming operating systems, Microsoft could get something right. A default install of XP leaves it's associated PC fully open to remote attack. From a company with as much experience and money to throw around as Microsoft, this is inexcusable.
But I digress. Microsoft will have as hard a time grappling the Handheld market away from Nintendo as Nintendo would have grappling the Operating System market away from Microsoft. Not even the video-game-kingdom-stealing likes of Sony could out do Nintendo in the handheld market. From what the article says, though, the device mentioned doesn't even sound like a direct competitor.
Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?
How about Word vs WordPerfect? Excel vs Lotus vs Quattro Pro?
The question is, can MSFT deliver the functionality of the Game Boy Advance?
They can crank out a box that specs out as a GBA competitor. But it won't BE a GBA competitor, because they don't grok kids gaming.
This is why Nintendo does well. They do grok kids gaming. You may hate Pokemon, you may not like Pimkin, but kids love them. The buttons are where they need to be - you don't get tired - the carts work easily.
The people who brought you xBox are giving you a PC solution for Game playing. And that's why it's a distant third in the game title sales. And why it will stay that way. They don't grok gamers. They never have.
And they lose money each box they sell. Nintendo makes money on every box they sell, which means they can sell games cheap. Cause the games are where the bucks are - so kids can buy more games. You may think it's nuts to buy the Pikachu Yellow version of Pokemon, the Red, the Blue, the Crystal, the Silver, the Gold - but it means they make money on each sale at Nintendo.
Microsoft thinks they'll get it all in one (flawed) release. And fix the bugs later. Nintendo thinks they'll make sure it works first, and save the extra things for future releases.
So, in short, MSFT will fail at this one too.
Of course, what do I know, I hold stock in both MSFT and Nintendo, among other companies. MSFT makes money due to dominance, holdings, and cash flow - the game business is not profitable, except with pro forma (fake) accounting methods. Nintendo makes money with this.
-
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
I mean, damm, I don't want to have to power cycle my handheld ever 20 mins.
it's much more than that and much less than that all at once.
this was pointless even mentioning the GBA. it's not a competitor. not even close.
let's take a close look at "Mira."
it's useless without network connectivity. it can't play games unless it's hooked up to an xbox. it can't be a PC unless it's hooked up to a desktop machine.
if you've got an xbox and a 29" TV, why would you hook up a tablet to play games on a smaller screen where controls would be fiddly because you're busy trying to hold the screen and the controller?
maybe you can hook up to your xbox via a wireless lan so you can play your game while you're taking a crap. but nobody is that hardcore addicted to any game to not pause when you need to lay a cable.
it really comes down to being a really expensive fashion accessory. it's completely redundant because it has no capacity of it's own.
if you want a portable games console, get a GBA.
if you want a portable PC for doing business stuff, get a pocket pc or a laptop.
if you want a remote control for your tv, get a remote control for your tv.
this offers nothing new or special for anyone except those who have to have all the latest toys regardless of their usefulness.
it should probably also be mentioned that a lot of companies are writing console style arcade games for pocket pcs. ipaq seems to be the most popular, but I don't like the layout of the directional arrows and with the bulge in the middle, it's not comfortable for game playing.. but I'm sure there will be new popcket pcs coming out which are more suited to this in the future..
rayman is currently available on pocketpc.. more will follow.
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
"I think so, Brain, but 'instant karma' always gets so lumpy." - Pinky
"Decepticons FOREVER!!!" - Ravage
Man this is crazy. The way things are going I wouldnt be suprised if Microsoft gets together with Whirlpool, GE, and Sony to incorporate computerchips into everything. I can see it now...You are sitting at your computer playing Quake and forget to preheat the oven, Oh! just do it from Windows GE. Forget to close the garage door? Oh, just login remotely from your Media Pad and close it down.
I cheated to get Mewtwo. I just started an indefinite length match with two human players and left the machine on all night. Bang. There's your 20 hours.
1000 Vs. matches(any kind, any length) is probably the *alternate* way of unlocking a character or two.
Nintendo's only held on to the market for portables so far because it's had no real competitors (Gamegear? No, Sega consoles don't count as competitors, but their history of yanking support and doing other stupid things is another story.)
:)
It's like saying CmdrTaco has the crown in terms of Militant Food for being named CmdrTaco.
Now, with GBA, Nintendo's actually put out a decent product (Not but the GB wasn't decent, but c'mon, it was black and white, or should I say, green and yellow, for how many years?)..
Still, all Microsoft has to do is come up with the next Pokemon, and they've got it.
Hmm. Innotvatemon? Gotta embrace and extend 'em all?
The ZDNet article says the device will cost around $2,000. A GBA costs $90. Now, do you think Microsoft will be able to sell millions of these things when the GBA is $90?
To make this claim is pure hype-generation. It seems this "pad thing" hasn't even been finalized for production so I'm sure it would be 2-3 years away. Now, even if the Xbox has a fairly good life span it will be old by the time this "pad thing" comes out.
You don't GET a STOP error by default in XP... at least so I've been told by an XP user.
Here's the official Press Release:
0 2/01-07FreestyleMiraPR.asp
> Microsoft Unveils New Home PC Experiences With "Freestyle" and "Mira"
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Press/2002/Jan
- Jeremy Traub
Those "proprietary" plugs are just USB ports in disguise.
Which character would [require 1000 Vs games]? ... Mr. Game & Watch can be unlocked by beating classic mode, adventure more, or target test with all of the other twenty-four characters.
I was referring to Mr G&W. I've found some characters whose target test absolutely stumps me (e.g. Young Link). Even then, unlocking all the stages...
Will I retire or break 10K?
The big problem is that for a game to boot up on a GBA, the ROM has to have the correct header information, which includes code copyrighted by Nintendo (part of which is the NINTENDO logo that appears when you turn on the GBA with a kart in)
It's copyrighted, but copying it does not constitute infringement. From the Sega v. Accolade decision, if a game console checks for a magic cookie in the software, even the 14 KB magic cookie in the Dreamcast boot sector, copying the magic cookie for interoperability counts as Fair Use(TM). Just make sure you follow the Bleem developers' example and display "CORRECTION: This software is not licensed by Nintendo" once your code gets control.
Will I retire or break 10K?
So, even with the big security holes and blue sceens constantly, Windows is the better product? If a stereo manu. made products like Win, we wouldn't have a music industry, because no one would ever have a working receiver, just a bunch of intermittant static. I've used Win 3.0 through 2000, and just got XP to try, plus RH Linux. I agree that w2k is more stable than 98 (what I have at home), but stuff still crashes. Netscape on w2k crashes at least once a day, and in the middle of a really good song on a stream. The real problem is development cycles. No one is trying to put a complete, stable program anymore. it's get it out now and we'll fix it later. if more companies would take the time and make sure that their app is stable, then we would see some real competition. But that doesn't excuse MS. They have stolen, bought and crushed their way to the top, and will do anything to stay there. Apparantly Bill didn't pass Business 101. Competition is GOOD, and even having 25% of the computer OS market share would be an immense number. If they would put out a quality product that doesn't need a bazillion patches and works, I would be happier. As it is, I have to use Win to do most of my computing, but as I learn Linux more and get more involved in it, I plan to phase out Win and go straight Linux, because my experience so far has been overwhelmingly better than with win. The only thing about MS that would suprise me would be if they did put out a quality product. When that happens, I will look more closely at them, until then I will look at every other alternative.
Care to try again?
What do you mean the only exception is linux?
That's just stupid.