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Immersion Sues Sony and Microsoft Over Force Feedback
stereoroid writes: "Immersion Corp. has filed a lawsuit against Sony and Microsoft, alleging unauthorised use of their patents - here's their press release. The suit alleges that any use of touch or force feedback in their consoles violates their patents. For some obscure reason, this was first reported in the Irish Times today."
what about all the coin-ops that had force feedback in the 80's
...Logitech is sued by God over the use of "mouse"
...Barundi tribes sue every computer user because of their "click" language simulated by keyboard presses
..."Patch" Adams, the famous doctor, is suing Microsoft over their use of "Patch"
And, of course, Microsoft patents 1's and 0's :-)
Today, Immersion technologies filed a separate suit against numerous adult "toy" manufacturers for patent infringements relating to a variety of force feedback mechanisms.
The suit names the makers of "orgasmatron" and the makers of the "king donger 3000"
I live my life one quarter pounder at a time -Vinh Diesel
Why don't these companies come out and sue right away if it such a blatant violation of a patent or something? If I were the judge, I'd say "Well, the feedback stuff has been around for 3 years, you say you have had the patent for 5, why'd did you wait so long? Dismissed" Are IP lawyers like amblance chasers? Are there law firms who do nothing but troll IP patents then alert the holder to a violation (and by the way it will only cost you $$$).
"If you are on fire you can just stop, drop, and roll. If you fall into Lava you are just dead." - my 5yr old daughter
I thought Newton would've got all the patents in on force feedback...
A small company designs something and a larger one tries to steal the idea. And yes anyone could have designed it. But immersion put in the time and resources to do it and that's why they should have a monopoly for it for a short time. Otherwise no one would bother to make new things. Why spend time and money on R&D when someone else will just steal the idea and make money of it.
For some obscure reason, this was first reported in the Irish Times today.
You mean because the Times scooped their competition? What's so unusual about that? Because it's not a US paper? Not all tech-savvy newspapers are located in the States, you know. Ireland has a thriving tech industry, so it's not all that surprising that they break a tech story now and again.
--Jim
I didn't see the exact patent numbers that were supposedly infringed on. Looking at Immersion's patents, it seems they are for real force feedback. Like making a controller harder to push when you are up against a wall. Not the nerve killing vibrations of the current console controllers. Microsoft did make a true force feedback joystick for the PC though.
Well it isn't a software patent, and the suit is against two big corps we love to hate. But if they are claiming a patent on a vibrating controller, I think there may be prior art.
Oh, one more thing. What happens with companines like Logitech (who also made a true force feedback joystick) that licensed the technology, if the patent is declared invalid. Can they sue for the license fees that they paid?
Clearly I have prior art claims, since when I was 11 or so my friends and I would take turns hitting each other while we played with our Atari.
Any idiot could have designed the force feedback stuff, even Microsoft! How did that get a patent on something so simple???
Once something is invented it's pretty much always simple ref zippers and velcro... that's why there's patent laws; someone is innovative enough to realize that there's a huge potential market for something that's been pretty much staring us in the face for the last umpteen years, so they perfect it, and patent it so that [insert-megalithic-corporation-here] can't screw them outta there rightly deserved cash.
Oh god, that woman is John Romero!
My favorite from a quick glance over their patents is number 80 on their list.
"Implementing Force Feedback Over the World Wide Web and Other Computer Networks ". Taking a fairly common feature, and saying it can work over a network. Any network. A quick skim through the patent listing didn't have any reference to a specific unique protocol or anything that they designed.
Are they talking about realtime streaming of force feedback data? Are they talking about embedding that stuff in webpages? If I have my computer shake my mouse a little bit every time an FTP connection fails, can they sue me? It makes no sense.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
5,691,898 November 25, 1997 Safe and low cost computer peripherals with force feedback for consumer applications Abstract A method and apparatus for providing safe and low-cost force feedback peripherals for consumer applications. A device microprocessor local to an interface device is coupled to the host by a first interface bus. The microprocessor receives host commands from the host computer on the first interface bus, such as an RS-232 interface, and commands an actuator to apply a force to a user object, such as a joystick, in response to host commands. A sensor detects positions of the user object and outputs signals to the host on a second interface bus, such as a PC game port bus, separate from the first bus. In a "recoil" embodiment, a user initiates force feedback by pressing a button on the joystick, which sends an activation signal to the actuator. In other recoil embodiments, the host computer can transmit one or more enable signals and/or activation signals to the actuator to enable or command forces. A safety switch of the present invention disables the actuator when the interface device is not in use and enables the actuator when an amount of weight over a predetermined amount is placed on the joystick created by a user grasping the joystick. A circuit of the present invention includes a capacitor for storing power provided by an input signal and supplied to the actuator when forces are to be output.
Free cell phone tracking
What's so stupid about this? If they were the first to come up with the idea, then Microsoft or Sony shouldn't be allowed to take their idea without paying for it.
The problem is everyone on slashdot is so conditioned to react negatively to any patent claim that they'll jump to the attack, even when it's unwarranted.
This is exactly what the patent office was created for.
As early as the 1950's military aircraft were using force feedback so the pilots could "feel" the plane. Fly by wire was just not intuitive without the feedback part. The first plane that I know used this was the Avro Arrow.
An exploration of mixology, spirits and bartending.
Wow. A /. reader who doesn't play video games? They're simply not the same thing. "Rumble" is just a bigger version of the off-center disc used to vibrate pagers. So, if you drive your MarioKart off the road, the wheel will start to shake. Force, or haptic, feedback, will impart a restoring force to a steering wheel greater than that of the return spring alone. It's best in flight sims, where if you try some particularly tricky maneuvers, it requires a great deal of force to get the control surfaces where you want them.
I suspect that Lockheed probably has prior art, however. Force feedback is fairly standard in fly by wire military aircraft.
Best Slashdot Co
"For some obscure reason, this was first reported in the Irish Times today.""
Why, oh why, doesn't Slashdot post my submitions? Europe has been buzzing with this and other patent cases involving Microsoft. Microsoft recently failed to pay the measly $600,000 to the poor french couple who sold everything they have to fight for thier rights against Microsoft. They won! But Slahsdot doesn't report these things when I, a long time and loyal reader, submit.
It's the Softimage case morons.
Lawyer Entropy.
The US has too many people training to be lawyers and not enough scientists/engineers. Hence you get lawyers looking for things to do, which means either bog everyone down with brain-dead law-suits or go into corporate america as middle-management. In either case, they are adding no value to the US and we find the country slowing down from the lawyer entropy. If only we could persuade students to follow a math/science/engineering route instead.
Go to an antique arcade (here's one) and look around a bit. There's machines that use electrical stimulation (low-voltage applied across the handles) and machines that use mechanical feedback (vibration, pulling, pushing). Many of these machines date from the 19th century.
There's nothing *new* about this at all.
Get off my lawn.
If they were the first to come up with the idea, then Microsoft or Sony shouldn't be allowed to take their idea without paying for it.
Yes, but there are two points here:
1) They were NOT the first to come up with this. Loads of arcade games for instance have been using forced-feedback for many, many years.
2) This patent is far too broad, and should have never been granted. How can you patent the concept of vibration?! I could see if they patented a certain type of motor that produced a specific form of vibration, and Sony & MS stole the plans, but they are suing because their controllers vibrate. As much as I dislike Sony & MS, this lawsuit is BS.
I do wonder though. If Immersion wins, can the child in this story sue them instead of Sony??
I really don't Immersion is to blame on this one. If the patent office was stupid enough to award the Patent to them without checking for prior art, than it's still something that Microsoft and Sony are bound to recognize.
I remember when the Dual Shock Controller first came out for the PSX and how I was sure to buy one quick because everything I read pointed to a quick removal from the market for a patent infringement.
To Immersion's Defense, they did try to work with MS and Sony to work out a licensing agreement for the technology. I can't imagine that their asking price was that unreasonable seeing as though I had to pay $35 for a PS2 Dual Shock and $40 for the XBox controller.
[From the Article]
Immersion has expanded its licensees into the gaming console market with partners such as MadCatz, Saitek and others
This would indicate to me that other vendors have licensed Immersion's Technology. They sell their products a substantially cheaper price and in many cases are not an inferior product. I find it hard to believe that Sony and MS could not afford to pay this.
This is another case in which the Patent Office has screwed up again. If, as many of these other posts indicate there was prior art to the Force Feedback, then the Patent Office is to blame for awarding this in the first place. Immersion is simply excersing a right they have as patent holder--they are not to blame in this.
for more details see here.
Or just use google. Like normal people do.
For some obscure reason, this was first reported in the Irish Times today.
I couldn't find any references to potatoes OR alcohol. Why are the Irish interested?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.