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Verisign Sending Deceptive Domain Renewal Mail?
General_Corto writes: "Declan McCullagh's PoliTech list just forwarded a message detailing how Verisign is sending letters to people who own domains through other registrars, attempting to make them change registrar on renewal. Looking at the letter it is very unclear that you are signing up with a different registrar. Sneaky games are being played."
I'll fire off an email to verisign to chastize them. You should all do the same.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Registrars have been doing this for a while, not just Verisign.
This thing doesn't even have the company name on its return address, it's just called Expiration Department.
This is just an attempt to snare unsuspecting customers aware from other registrars, apparently earning a tidy profit for Verisign (Go Daddy software complains that that Verisign charges $29.95 instead of their $8.95)
No
All this letter is, is a request to transfer and renew under Veisign without actually saying so. It's almost like receiving spam indicating you requested it without ever doing so.
It's wrong and deceptive. Just make sure you respond to the communication from the registrar you originally registered with. Being observant can save you money and hassle.
If I weren't nailed to the penis, I'd be pushing up the daisies!
Y'all remember "slamming?" That fun practice where Phone Company X would just go in and magically switch you to use their long-distance service without even mentioning it to you, and you wouldn't find out until the bill showed up?
So, this isn't all that bad... not that they wouldn't LIKE to be, but they don't get to.
Yep, taken from the Verisign homepage:
;-)
" Trust is the foundation of every human relationship "
They probably forgot the *: Only applies when you owe us money
Same game, different industry, huh. I used to see contest ballots for free cars and whatnot around.. in the fine print, though, it stated if you entered that contest that they could switch your carrier over to some unknown company. Although this isn't the same means, it seems that slamming techniques are definately not an uncommon thing in service industries.. It was probably only a matter of time until we saw stunts like this.
slashdot!=valid HTML
All they are doing is using information from WHOIS to farm for new clients. It's spam, I didnt register with them, yet they are telling me all about how my domain is about to expire and all the wonderful options available to me to prevent this from happening. It's sad to see a someone as large as Verisign fall to such low tactics to farm new clients.
This strikes me as a similar, albeit different, tactic to what is known as "slamming" in the phone industry. It was once a common scam for the shadier long distance providers to change your carrier without your permission or consent; the practice was (I believe) outlawed in the 1996 Telcommunications Act (correct me if I'm wrong). This is slightly different because they are just being deceptive about gaining consent, but it does seem similar. Wonder if Congress will step in on this type of practice as well?
Not sure that's the best idea, but it will probably take Washington 10 years to notice this anyway and by then there won't be any players but Verisign left anyway.
I think that Verisign is spamming, but physically, damn Post Office, it's an relay server ain't it?
internet like monkeys'
They only have their name in one place on the mailing, and it's not on the mailing service. Given how Verisign advertises their business as if they're *the* Internet company, it's not surprising that people might actually see the Verisign logo and think that it's either a safety/security measure, or that they're partnered with Go Daddy to conduct the renewals processing.
Woe betide he who does not read the fine print.
On a separate note, where do you legally draw the line between deceptively stealing customers and "slamming"?
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
The letter is very deceptive. Verisign seems to only be prominently mentioned once, and the address the letter gets mailed to doesn't mention Verisign at all. This is about as shady as switching your long-distance plan by cashing a check they give you (anyone else get those?).
But, I would hope that any sane person would refuse to put down their credit card number on a piece of mail as flimsy as a business reply card. Ignorance only extends so far, right? ...right?
This
I registered several through GoDaddy, by far the best one I have ever used, and Godaddy sent me a "warning" notice that Verisign is sending out these deceptive messages, and suggesting we write to icann about them...
rooooar
For the last 2 months I've been receiving similar mail from Interland (a Verisign partner) for a domain that doesn't expire until late May. I have two sites hosted on Interland and they're sending me renewal notices for a Verisign-registered domain that I parked on Interland servers (no live site).
Initially I was keeping all of my registrations with Verisign/Internic because I felt they provided me with the best service. That's still true as long as I don't need them to do anything like send me a registration report or help me change a contact because the record got munged.
I also felt a bit more secure with Verisign because they don't seem to be going anywhere and domain registrations are long-term investments for me.
These new tactics may be the final straw. The trouble is, I don't know how reliable any of the other companies are. Any recommendations?
Slashdot comments... splitting hairs since 1997.
My PHB often comes in with letters from register.com and always says, "I didn't think we had domains with them? How did they get our domains?!" and I have to tell him that those renewal letters are just gimmicks to trick you into changing registrars.
I'm not one who is satisfied with the incompetence of Verisign, but I can't let them take the blame for coming up with this scam.
Free Mac Mini
I really can't think of a good technical reason that I need to see the expiration date and other information off of the whois servers. Only information I really care about is the DNS servers and the admin/technical contact.
They should make the whois servers not give this information so other companies can use it as their own personal sales list.
I got the same letter from VeriSign, but it was for renewal of a domain that I do not and never have owned. The domain turned out to be registered to some company in Turkey who used register.com. I'm somewhat concerned that other people are getting the same letter for *my* domains.
People that have domain names should be somewhat cluefull, or have a consultant that is. I do think that Verisign is gonna get it's little fingies wacked over this. I hope that it's a very firm, costly wack for them.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
But since my domain isnt registered with NSI, im going to send it back to them no postage necessary, and im going to write on it in magic marker "NO WAY IN HELL"
maybe ill add a few washers, since they pay by weight of the letter, thats what i suggest, hit em where the investors feel it.
moo.
"Switch to MCI/Sprint from AT&T, it's better!"
"Switch to Linux, it's better!"
This is *totally* different. The difference is that Verisign isn't really telling you that you're switching, other than in the teeny tiny fine print. By your logic, this is akin to MCI sending you a bill for your AT&T service, indicating underneath your signature line that you'll be authorizing them to take over your service. There are laws against this now that specifically require you to say something along the phrase of "I agree to have *** as my long distance provider" on the phone where they can record it, as well as citing some personally identifiable information, so that the telco can prove that you authorized the change in proper sound mind and body.
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
I'm not one to normally be conspiratorial, but I think that it's not Verisign that's sending these letters, it's their competitor, GoDaddy, making it look like Verisign is to blame.
If it weren't for Verisign's bad maneuvers in the past, I would jump on that bandwagon immediately. Just a thought...
don't most domain name holders know who they registered with, when their time expires, and who their options are for renewal? isn't it normally a tekkie who handles the domain name administration for a company? if they really wanted to be sneaky, they'd send it to the administrative assistant to the VP of operations. this isn't any more sneaky than the 5-50$ check that AT$T sends in the mail where they switch your long dial phone service if you cash it.
I must say that they are the sleaziest company I have ever dealt with. I don't think I'd have any problem finding a used car salesman with higher ethical standards than Verisign.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
So their selection/identification has some basis on actual use.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
I'd say that VeriSign is the Microsoft of registrars, but that would be an insult to Microsoft. VeriSign has screwed up billing and renewal of various domains of mine four times in the past - after the last fiasco, in which they triple-charged me for a single two-year renewal their web site told me was not processed, and which they had already told me they couldn't do because my domain had (afterwards) been transferred to eNom, it took me three months and a letter to my bank disputing the charges to get my money back. I now use eNom for all my registrations. (Yes, I know there are cheaper choices...)
However, I get the last laugh.. When the domain involved in that triple-renewal came up for renewal this year, eNom told me that VeriSign's database had the domain as having been extended for six years - it didn't a year ago when I had the mess with them - so I was all set through 2008! I wrote them to explain what happened - they thanked me for being honest and said that it was more trouble than it was worth to "correct" the situation...
I think you are missing the point. There is nothing wrong with saying 'I think Windows is Bad because of x, y, z and Linux is good because of a, b and c, therefore I think you should change'. This is not what they did.
I wouldn't have been so bad if verisign had sent a letter saying 'Change from your current provider to us becuase we can offer x better deal' (forgetting the unsolicited mail issue), but instead they attempt to decieve the customer into signing up with them, when they would probably be thinking they are simply renewing the service they have.
It is a sad state when orginisations so blatently falls in with the 'why not if we can get away with it and make a quick buck' attitude. Just becuase you can and you are not breaking any laws does not make it right. In a society you should show respect for the people around you, whether you are in the work place, in business or down the pub, and verisign has shown a complete lack of respect to its competiors, and its potential customers, by pulling this stunt. It just creates an atmosphere of distrust and dirty tricks, which ends up being bad for all involved.
I've gotten numerous letters from various registrars trying to get me to renew with them. None of them were very straightforward about the fact that they weren't my current registrar. Luckily, I know better (what's weird is that my domain is registered for the next 10 years, and some registrars still think it was expiring this year).
.com domain, I had early access to a .info or something like that. They repeatedly implied that they were just a support group calling, and not a company named "The Domain Support Group".
On a slightly related issue, I got a phone call a month or so ago from "The Domain Support Group". They tried telling me that since I owned a
Paraphrasing a bit...
Who would be the registrar for the domain?
"We would be"
And who are you?
"We're your friendly Domain Support Group"
So you're not my current registrar?
"We're the domain support group".
Are you the same company as my existing registrar?
"Uh, no."
Yeah... so, I filed a complaint with the FTC.
This is differnent and you know it, dork. Whilst Microsoft made it obvious that they were bundling IE into windows (and never tried to hide it), Verisign in making it look like they are in fact the origional registrar that the person signed up with. This is deception, whilst the IE thing was nothing more than leveraging ones products by (ab)using a Monopoly. Two whole different ballparks.
They have access to Whois, they know which accounts are ready to expire, so they send out a renewal notice attempting to get you to switch. I know I registered via godaddy, I can see the Verisign logo, andyone who is "fooled" by this deserves what they get.
Now if they sent this out under the premise that they (verisign) were godaddy THEN this would be a valid complaint.
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Okay, is it just me or does anyone else find this just a little funny (in a sick, unethical way)? I mean, sure it's wrong of Verisign to try and trick people into doing business with them. On the other hand, if people/companies have such poor records management that they don't even notice it then they've got bigger problems than Verisign
I think the original comment was more about how long this has been going on, and that many of this would have thought this activity (by Verisign and others) would be common knowledge at this point.
At least, that's what *I* thought when I read the story. (and saw the posting on nanog).
*shrug*
Jeff
These letters from Verisign/Netsol border on fraud.
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
This is total bullshit. I just got one of these in the mail today, and if GoDaddy (my registrar) hadn't warned me about it a few days ago, I may have filled it out and sent Verisign $30.
:: Have You Had Your Linux News Today?
This is an incredibly sketchy practice on the part of Verisign and it pissed me off (as I'm sure it does many of you). Imagine if the U.S. government or IRS sent notices like this that said "Warning: If you don't send us X amount of dollars by March 31st, you will be in danger of facing criminal prosecution".
I mean, this is essentially what Verisign is doing, but the fact that they're a bunch of uber-capitalist business pigs^H^H^H^Hmen, it is somehow legal.
m o n o l i n u x
We've received numerous calls from customers of ours regarding this issue as well. We've posted a sample of one of these Verisign notices at:
<a href="http://domainscams.com">http://domainscam s.com</a>.
There's also a good thread on the OpenSRS discuss-list mailing list. <a href="http://www.opensrs.org/archives/discuss-lis
What is disturbing to me with this is that while similar renewal scams have been running for some time, these have usually been run from small time registration service providers like Domain Registry of America/Canada. This one is from Verisign, and they've the money behind them to hit a lot of domain holders with this.
Their notice also includes a reply date which is timed 40 days following the expiry date of the domain, the day that most other registrars will drop the domain if not renewed.,
The notice itself is entitled Domain Name Expiration Notice, and looks as close to a renewal form as possible.
If you have received one of these & paid it, you should contact your bank/credit card company about reversing the charge. Verisign won't be able to complete the transfer without you authorising it by an email that is sent to the existing admin email contact for your domain.
You may also want to visit http://www.usps.com and in the search box type in "false billing". You will find the first result link is for: "False Billing Schemes Against Business".
"Notify your local postmaster or nearest Postal Inspector if you receive a questionable invoice or have been taken in a false billing scheme. This will help postal inspectors protect other companies with weak controls."
http://www.register4less.com
Things like this are exactly why I no longer use Verisign/NetSol as my registrar. However, unfortunately this not their only dirty trick.
Aside from this, which is very similar to long-distance carrier slamming, Verisign also has a nasty habit of holding onto domains/not allowing customers to transfer their own domains. I know several people who were forced to wait for MONTHS for Verisign to finally go ahead and transfer their domains to another registrar, and that was only after repeated calls to them. Verisign's own transfer process was completely ignored, in the hopes of squeezing another $35 out of the billing contact.
Verisign also uses deceptive overbilling; if you register a domain with them for a year, come renewal time, they will send you a renewal bill for $70 or more! Of course, only in the very fine print do they tell you that it's $35 a year, so they are trying to make you renew for 2+ years. Yes, you can select 1 year, but they should not default to 2 years unless you previously paid for 2 years. It is very carefully worded to make it look like you actually owe them $70+.
Lastly, they make it ridiculously tough to modify your own contact information for a domain. I had a domain which was registered in my name, and with an email address that was now expired. So, you have to fax them a paper requesting a change of email address. Fine, no problem there. However, I had to send them nine faxes before it got changed. I would call to followup the fax, and they would repeatedly claim that it was never received. It took over 3 1/2 months for me to get an email address changed on a domain contact!! Of course, if you sign up for their expensive premium services, it only takes a day; glad to know where regular customers stand with Verisign.
I recommend that anyone who does use them to switch elsewhere. A company like Verisign/NetSol does not deserve our business.
Verisign routinely sends renewal requests for domains that have been transferred from them to another registrar. At best, it's terrible business practice. At worst, it's highly deceptive.
ever since network solutions turned into verisign they've begun to suck like everyone else. i'm assuming these guys, just like every other registrar, is using 'whois' in order to get their information. interesting that they expect other people to abide by their own server's "information clause" and while disregard everyone else's:
By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree to use this Data only for lawful purposes and that under no circumstances will you use this Data to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail, telephone, or facsimile;
i know people who work for <a href=alldomains.com>alldomains</a> and they say they use the same technique, knowledgably and with complete disregard for the law. i get a courtesy calls often concerning my domains from other registrars. can we crack down on these guys? or should we just find them and physically hurt them?
by the way, why is crsnic's whois server still screwed up? do a lookup on any major site with it, like microsoft.com, and you get all these BS listings obviously made by someone who hacked them. i don't get it. it's been like that for months!
My office mate got a similar letter from another registrar and sent them a check. He's still trying to get the money back. He just assumed cause it said he needed to renew he did.
I'm trying to read the fine print at the bottom.
It looks like it says "by signing the reverse side of this form, you hereby authorize to transfer the registration of your domain name(s) from your current registrar to Verisign, renew your domain name registration for a period of one year from the current record expires date, and charge your credit card for this order."
So, it clearly states what you are doing. But why is it so easy to transfer to Verisign?
I just let my domain lapse (not that it was doing much anyway) because I watned to get away from Verisign and it was a nightmare the hurdles you had to jump through.
Good think we have ICANN looking out for us...er...well for something.
I own a house. For those of you not fortunate enough to understand what that means, consider your average junkmail that you receive now in your rental house, apartment, whatever. Multiply that by roughly 15.
This letter may be somewhat deceptive. So is every other friggin' piece of mail in my mailbox right now. Most people do the same thing with all such letters--they throw them out. But, like always, there is a sucker born every minute who will just plop down the credit card number and send the thing in. That's the ropes, folks.
When I looked at the letter, I saw Verisign's name immediately. I also noticed that you are signing for "renewal and transfer authorization", not just renewal. Sure, this might not say explicitly that you're going to change registrars... but there's a heck of a lot of fine print near the bottom that I can't read. My guess is that everything is spelled out there very clearly--to the person who cares to read it anyways.
Sorry folks, that's life. There's enough stupid people in the world who fall for things like this to make it economically worthwhile. Maybe next time get mad at the people dumb enough to sign things without reading--cause it's really their fault in the end.
Long, cute, or funny Sigs are just another form of over compensation, used by geeks, nerdz, etc.
I think you're a troll. I'll bite anyway.
"Thinking outside the box" could allude to deception. It could (and usually does) also allude to something that's different. That's all. Good or bad, it's different.
Sure, this happens in capitalism. But it's not necessary to or specificly limited to Capitalism. It happens with greed and "we're adhering to the letter of the law" style practices. This can happen in any economic system.
People lie, cheat, and steal. It's a fact of life. But it's silly to blame an economic system because some people exploit others in order to benefit through said economic system.
Exact same thing with me. Cept they were a little more persistant in trying to rip me off.
My domain name was up in early March, I renewed it to 04 when they sent me a renewal letter in November. They have since sent me no less than 10 other letters, 3 or 4 emails and twice have actually called me, I told the two idiots on the phone that I already renewed it. They didn't know what to say so I hung up.
I have also recieved letters from Register.com and another place looking like I had my domain through them and It was time to renew.
Alas now I work for an ISP and register my names through them. If I need to renew I do it my self. End of story. Verisign has some serious problems in their renewal system though.
It's not the OS it's the user that sucks. If it's user friendly, you get stupider people. - clinko
This issue was already discussed on K5, a while ago, for anyone interested in seeing the discussion there.
I wonder if the Telco Act as it stands now already cover this? IANAL nor do I keep the law text lying around to study. :-)
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
So how is this different from the mail I got from several other Registrars?
I just now sorted through this month's mail, did my bills, and threw away a ton of junk. In my sorting, I had TWO paper mails from other registrars telling me that my domain was about to expire and that in order to keep them I had to re-register them. Well, guess what? I'm registered with Verisign, but both of the letters were from other Registrars. One of which was Registrar of America (or something like that). They're both in the trash now, but the point is, Verisign isn't the only one guilty of it.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Yeah, so we're all IANALBIWTOTs (I Am Not A Lawyer But I Watch Them On TV) ... so what? :)
Be sure to add, "I watched an episode of Matlock in a bar last night. The sound was off, but I think I got the gist of it."
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Interland isn't doing that. If you actually pay one of Interland's renewal notices, you stay on your current registrar. They just want money for no work on their part.
Of course, they're about as incompetent as NSI. I have my domain's registered mail address set to my father's PO Box, and my father paid the Interland renewal notice before asking me. He paid for two years, but my domain was renewed for four. And he paid by check, so they couldn't double-bill us.
Of course, even at half the price it still was more expensive than some alternate registrars...
Avi
This happened to my company a few weeks ago, and I was hopping it was just me;
It happened about a week after we transfered registrars. we started getting renewal notices about or domains even though they were paid up until December. The Verisign people said that it was a "glitch" and that there was nothing they could do to effect a domain name once it had left their ownership.
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
Of course it makes no sense for one person who's lost perhaps $15 by paying too much - and ended up with much worse customer service, but still - to sue. Unless that person becomes lead claimant in a class action suit on behalf of at least everyone who has suckered for this scam, plus perhaps everyone who has wasted valuable business time urgently asking employees or consultants why the renewal hasn't been "taken care of," or assuring bosses or clients that the notice - from the best-known name in the business - is a fraud.
Not to mention that it perpetuates the notion that anything dot.com related is suckersville - but I guess you can't sue for making the neighborhood look bad.
Still, if none of the lawyers reading this can frame it as a rich class action, we need to attract a brighter class of lawyers.
____
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
nya, I'm just tired of people saying "why is this news?", "slashdot is going downhill" and such...once
My brother-in-law let his expire. He thought they would delete and he can go renew it somewhere else for a fraction of the price. 90 days comes and goes with no word. I start emailing them pretending that I'm interested in registering it. They give me the run around about batch deleting etc. but thanks for your interest. A week later it became available. He registered it at godaddy for $8.95 instead of $35.
on the page w/ the recievers name and address, it clearly has the verisign logo, and the instructions have for step 3..
Sign the form to authorize your renewal, transfer and payment.
It also clearly states the renewal rate and additionally, it has a section of inputs for 'Renewal and Transfer Authorization'
The fine print didn't really come through the scanner very well, so i have no idea what that says.
In any case, if you bother to read the mail, its not deceptive at all. I don't think its the greatest way to advertise, and it certainly doesn't encourage me to use verisign directly again, but theres nothing improper about it.
Need a Catering Connection
Never done a 'whois' lookup, have you?
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
The short version is that I signed up for a domain transfer to Interland. Everything went fine (that is, they were very efficient at ringing u the sale on my credit card). Then, the troubles started. Various snafus at their end made the domain transfer take not one, not two, not three days - but NINE.
To make matters worse, their POP server went down repeatedly. Their "helpful web-based admin tools" didn't work properly - for example, WebTrends worked, but only sporadically. Server response times were atrocious - I regularly ran traceroutes from a variety of locations and found response to routinely be 2x slower than most other comparable sites.
Tech support failed to respond to any of my above complaints, but each time I received a handy message from their automated system, telling me that the problem had been resolved. How had it been resolved? There was no problem in the first place, so everything is OK!
Finally, I elected to end my misery. I switched to another host, which has given me none of the above-mentioned difficulties. I complained yet again to Interland and they finally promised to send a refund for the unused portion of my 1-year contract.
I faxed in the appropriate form over two weeks ago, and haven't been credited the amount due. Why am I not surprised?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Speaking as someone who will owe a bundle on April 15th, this isn't quite true. Your employer takes the money out of your paycheck. If you are self-employed, it is up to you to pay as you go. And, yes, you can face criminal prosecution if you don't pay. That takes a while, though. The IRS is actually pretty reasonable to deal with if you're honest about it and make an effort to pay what you owe. Not that I'm a big fan. Who really wants to pay taxes, even when aware of the benefits of government? I don't remember who said it, but I like the quote: "A patriot is person who receives a parking ticket and rejoices that the system works."
And Verisign is a lousy company.
There are a variety of companies that do this, that have been doing it longer than Verisign. Maybe you (whomever) has just never got them before but this is nothing new to Verisign. There jsut as stupid for taking up the practice because I lose all respect for companies taht operate in this manner (and may switch my Verisign registrations because of it). But in general this seems to smell of a particular kid of /. whine....
-shpoffo
I got a letter too. It says to fax it back to
1-866-234-4134, or call 1-800-810-6298 if I have questions.
I think I'll mail the letter back just to be sure, and *boy* do I have questions.
--Just the place for a snark!
You forgot
0) Ensure, through the power of telepathy, that the "spammers & co." are not using a PC to receive faxes.
HTH
One of my husband's relatives got a letter like that from Verisign. He was previously with NetSol. and hadn't even noticed the offer was from a different company. He just wanted to know what to do with it. I switched him to Doster. A helluva lot cheaper and easier to work with than either of the other two.
I guess I didn't consider the letter deceptive because it referred to transfering and the poor uncle just thought it was from his regular host to begin with. He had no idea what their name was.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
I dunno... I'd think that anybody who signs their name on the line right below where it says, "Renewal and Transfer Authorization," can probably figure it out.
...for one of my domains. It's actually pretty obvious that it's a transfer application, but I can see how it might confuse some people. It's just a single sheet of paper that you write your name on, check a couple of boxes to renew (and transfer your domain to them), and print your credit card info on.
I guess if NetSol wants "what--the--fuck.com", they can have it.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
The post office is very serious about mail fraud. If a fraudulent transaction involved the postal service at any step along the way, they will get involved. I've heard of problems with some ebay sellers being investidated because the post office recognized it as mail fraud.
ICANN, on the other hand, may not particularly care. But it wouldn't hurt to let them know, too.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
i worked for a large company (read: s&p500 listing) that, as one of their services, did web hosting for small businesses - handling the domain registration and renewal internally. boy, did we start getting angry phone calls when people thought their domains were going to expire (and we weren't going to renew them inclusive to their contract/fee.)
doesn't internic have a policy of conduct for domain name registrars? i seem to remember there being a lot of concern when they broke the netsol monopoly that the 'alternatives' would provide poor customer service and business ethics. who's the pot, and who's the kettle NOW?
www.pixelectric.com
but it's still dishonest.
They are OBVIOUSLY banking on deception to get them more money. Otherwise, why be so obscure?
It's in bad faith. It's deceptive. They should
be punished.
I own a domain with [thedomainname].net
Last year, when I was eyeing on [thedomainname].com that was registerred at verisign and already expired for like 4 and half months, i noticed something odd.
I emailed verisign asking why they are not releasing the domain since it has been expired for almost 5 months. They replied saying that there's some disputes with the domain. But by the next day, the domain is handed to some person, and it's up for sale. And guess who got a first solicitation for that?
Also I noticed that if we do a lot of whois to a domain name, netsol will not release the domain even if it expired for a long while (more than 5 months).....
I knew right away something was fishy since it was addressed to "Jason." Yes, the idiots forgot to put my last name on the envelope. A quick look inside turned up that it was from NetSol and not my real registrar, DirectNIC. (Plus, it was for a domain name that I had just renewed with DirectNIC a week ago.) I'm so glad to be rid of Network Solutions. (And I'm spreading the joy by moving my company's domain names away from them.)
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
If you look at the image of the letter you will see that they blocked out the address, but not the postnet barcode.
To my eyes the POSTNET barcode looks like this to me : (where t represents a tall bar and s a short one)
t ttsss sstst sstts stsst tssst ssstt ssstt sstst ststs sstst ststs tssts t
This decodes into 0 2 3 4 7 1 1 2 5 2 5 8.
which is ZIP+4+2: 02347-1125-25 Checksum 8
The way the POSTNET checksum value is given by (10-((Summation of all digits) Mod 10)). The total of our digits 02347112525 = 32... (10-(32 mod 10)) = 8. The checksum is valid and our decoding is probably successful.
Next step... head to the usps website to find that 02347 is in Lakeville, MA. Mind you, a ZIP+4+2 code in most cases is a unique address. However, the USPS is not going to make this easy for us.
Lets try our friend Google instead... searching for 02347-1125 give us the personal web site of Steve Douillette.
But how can we be sure that this is the letter Mr. Douillette recieved and diligently forwarded to godaddy to warn other customers? I wonder where Steve registered his domain name steve-d.com.
If you want to be anonymous, please be careful with what you post online.
While I do think that this is sneaky of VeriSign and Co, I don't think that it would classify as mail fraud. How are they "defrauding" you? Never did they say that they were associated with your current registrar. They give you the service that you paid for, domain (re)registration. The service that they are "advertising" is legal & not a scam. The card clearly has Verisign on one of the pages. I can't read the fine print at the bottom of the form, but I can see Verisign mentioned in several places.
Maybe there is a case for the FTC or your state's AG office for deceptive practices, but not mail fraud.
But I don't see your point. Verisign has some responsibility here don't they? They own the company, right?
Will they do anything about this? If not, then they are endorsing it by their silence.
Bill
Upon seeing the box was too small, Schrodinger's Elephant breathed a sigh of relief.
There's enough stupid people in the world who fall for things like this to make it economically worthwhile.
How about the ones that look like junk mail, but say, "Your account will be billed shortly if we don't hear from you." I signed up for a free trial of something, and the original terms clearly stated that I would not be automatically billed; I would have to accept the terms of a future communication. That "future communication" was a typical junk mail that said failure to respond would constitute acceptance.
Sure, I can sue to get the money back (I called immediately to cancel) but the legal costs would have been more than I was arguing over. Plus time off work to go make my case to begin with.
Short of a class action, these cases just aren't worth pursuing, and the people who do it know this. That's why I never give out a credit card number any more unless I want to buy something immediately.
Nope, no sig
That's Verisign's motto. I guess honesty and integrity don't aren't part of trust.
Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
Looking at the letter it is very unclear that you are signing up with a different registrar.
Okay, Verisign is a lousy registrar and their service sucks. But their letter is reasonably clear, I think. Click on the link to that letter and you'll quickly see:
1. A nice clear Verisign logo. (duh)
2. The words "Transfer Authorization" just above where you sign.
Anyone who can't see those two things in black & white simply isn't up to the responsibility of being the administrative contact for a domain. I still dislike and distrust Verisign, but if the person in charge of my domains didn't clearly see that as a TRANSFER to VERISIGN, then they'd be out of a job.
I'm self-employed. I don't dick around with quarterly payments. I just file my 1040 on April 15th with everyone else and a few months later get a bill for penalty and interest for not having made my quarterly payments. But the penalty and interest is less than what my time is worth considering the amount of time I would have spent sending those four quarterly payments.
And being self-employed is something everyone ought to be required to be for at least one year in their life. So they can really get a clue as to how much they're spending on taxes. It does suck.
Who really wants to pay taxes, even when aware of the benefits of government?
I'm not aware of any benefits.
Especially in my case since I'm living overseas. Living overseas I get something like a $75,000 exemption on the income I earn over here, but I still have to pay full self-employment tax. And I don't even live in the friggin' country.
I have several hundred domains, and Interland insists on mailing web hosting spam. It's absurd. I have the same address registered with each domain.
One day I opened my PO box to find it stuffed with almost 30 identical spam letters.
I have called them on several occasions politely asking them to remove my address from their mailing list. The first couple of times they said "Yeah OK, sure, you're off the list." Months would go by and I'd still get more piles of junk mail. The last time I called them (again, politely asking to be removed), the "customer service" rep told me to just throw away the mail if I didn't want it and hung up.
I would urge everyone to avoid doing business with Interland. They're either incompetent or irresponsible.
It's actually been a couple months since I got any spam from them. I'm not sure if they just hit all of my domains (and are gearing up for round 2), or if somehow I really was removed from their list.
Buncha punks.
No way. This kind of Nancy Drew-attention to detail is outstanding. I tip my hat. Don't listen to this bozo who seems to feel that there's something wrong with technical prowess. He probably thinks he has a "life" because he spends Thursday through Sunday drinking to excess. Hitting the bars with his so-called friends counts more to him than being sharp as a knife.
Accept my congratulations.
Fortunately, most of our clientele are "in the know" when it comes to the Internet and domain registration yet even a large chunk of them have fallen prey to Verisign's deceptive schemes.
It's just as frustrating fighting them for ssl certificate sales. They're making way more profit per sale then we are ($120 vs. $350) so no matter how much we bid for ad placement, they always overbid us. Sometimes it doesn't seem worthwhile to try and be the lowest priced service. Anyway... :-)
Go ahead and look at mine. After all, all the "personal" information in the letter is straight from my "WHOIS" entry, so anyone can look it up.
Follow this link.
Or just wait by your postbox. I'm sure you'll get one before too long.
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
s play=letter.
.com, .net or .org domain name renewal, the victimized customer would pay $29.00 to Verisign, Inc. instead of the $8.95 charged by Go Daddy Software.
/ problem-rep ort.cgi
From: service@godaddy.com
Subject: A WARNING TO OUR CUSTOMERS
Please be aware that Verisign, Inc. (formerly Network Solutions) is sending via the US Mail, what we believe to be deceptive and predatory domain expiration notices.
The purpose behind these notices is to get the unsuspecting customer to transfer to and renew their domain name(s) with Verisign Inc. at significantly higher prices.
The domain expiration notices are designed so that it is not obvious that the notices are from Verisign, Inc. as opposed to Go Daddy Software. To see a copy of one of these deceptive expiration notices, please go to the following URL: http://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/private_vsrn.asp?di
Those customers who fall prey to the Verisign, Inc. scheme will have their domain name(s) renewed at a price more than 3 times higher than would be the case if they renewed with Go Daddy Software.
For a
Those customers who fall prey to this scheme, will not receive any better service or value. They will however be tricked out of $20.05 per domain name.
Renewal notices from Go Daddy Software are sent via email, and always mention the Go Daddy name. You can be sure that any communications you receive concerning your domain name that do not explicitly and obviously display the Go Daddy name are not from Go Daddy Software.
If you believe, as we do, that this practice of Verisign Inc. is misleading, predatory and improper, we invite you to make your feelings known by writing to ICANN (who is the governing body for all Registrar?s and Registries) and to Verisign Registry. Email links for both are provided below.
Sincerely,
Bob Parsons, President
Go Daddy Software, Inc.
ICANN Registrar Complaint Form (hosted at InterNIC)
http://www.internic.net/cgi/registrars
VeriSign Registry Customer Service
info@verisign-grs.com
Phone: 703-948-3200
(oh, and the funny thing was they sent it with screwed up mime headers)
Math is like sex. People who get it are popular in class, people who don't are not.
You are not aware of any benefits of government? I would suggest that fact that you can enter into a contract and expect that contract to be enforced with something other than violence is a very tangible benefit of government. I drive on roads. Another tangible benefit of government. There are millions of benefits to government. Try living somewhere without one and I think you will find life there nasty, brutish, and short.
Now the fact that you live outside the jurisdisiction of the government to which you are obligated to pay tax is, perhaps, the exception that proves the rule. Nonetheless, working outside the U.S. was your choice. You can either accept what that choice costs, or you can look into becoming a citizen of your adopted home.
None of this is to say that I like the tax code as it is, nor to say that I necessarily agree with how the present administration chooses to spend my taxes. Nor to say that I don't believe that a great many tax dollars are wasted or misspent. None of that changes my fundamental belief in the necessity of government, nor in the unfortunate side effect of that necessity: The power to raise and levy taxes.
he's right. check out for yourself or use javascript for your needs. Thanks for playing!
Get Firefox!
The solicitation must bear on its face either the disclaimer required by 39 USC 3001(d)(2)(A) or the notice: THIS IS NOT A BILL. THIS IS A SOLICITATION. YOU ARE UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO PAY THE AMOUNT STATED ABOVE UNLESS YOU ACCEPT THIS OFFER. The statutory disclaimer or the alternative notice must be displayed in conspicuous boldface capital letters of a color prominently contrasting with the background against which it appears, including all other print on the face of the solicitation and that are at least as large, bold, and conspicuous as any other print on the face of the solicitation but not smaller than 30-point type (see Exhibit 1.2).
The notice or disclaimer required by this section must be displayed conspicuously apart from other print on the page immediately below each portion of the solicitation that reasonably could be construed to specify a monetary amount due and payable by the recipient. It must not be preceded, followed, or surrounded by words, symbols, or other matter that reduces its conspicuousness or that introduces, modifies, qualifies, or explains the required text, such as "Legal Notice Required by Law."
If you get a solicitation that looks like a bill, and you don't see those disclaimers in huge type, contact the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.
I wonder if they sent one to AOL...
Domain Name: AOL.COM
Registrant:America Online, Inc.
22000 AOL Way
Dulles, VA 20166
Created on..............: Nov 22, 1999
Expires on..............: Nov 22, 2001
Looking at the letter it is very unclear... :-)
No, looking at the letter, what I would say is unclear is the scan. I can't make out half the text on there. Unless that's a clean scan, in which case I think they're return rate is going to be pretty low
This is ludacrous. My brother got one of these "renewal" notices for a domain that I personally registered for him through Tucows, my brother is a roofer so he has no idea what is going on, I just barely stopped him before he had send a check to Verisign for $29.99 for renewal which would have moved the domain away from my busines www.npsis.com where we only charge $13.00 per year for domain registrations, in my brother's case of course I just renew it for free. I am appalled at the nasty tactics that a reputable company like Verisign would stoop to. I thought that once Verisign took over from NSI, things would be cleaned up a bit, I guess nothing has changed.
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
www.haidacarver.com
"Those customers who fall prey to this scheme, will not receive any better service or value."
I just transferred my last domain name out of NetSol/Verisign, and you don't have any idea how happy I am about it!
They have THE MOST CONFUSING set of forms ANYWHERE! I have a computer science degree and I knew exactly what I wanted to do (change an e-mail address and/or DNS server) but it took me FOREVER just to figure out which form on their site to use, and another forever to figure out how to use it!
By contrast, Domain-Maniac, which I currently use, has a simple login system. You can log in, change contacts and DNS servers and they're updated quickly and easily, no hassles, no headaches, no problems.
I'd use Domain Maniac over NetSol even if they charged twice as much!
But oh wait... they charge less than half of NetSol's price!
Is there ANYONE who registers with NetSol by choice anymore? WHY?????
Because this was sent by US Postal Main, I complained to the USPS at: http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/MailFra udComplaint.htm
The text of my complaint:
If you feel the same, perhaps you should complain as well. I suspect the USPS may be more responsive than ICANN ( but that's just a hunch ).
---
Segmentation Fault ( core dumped )
This is exactly as if you were subscribed to e.g Sprint as your long distance carrier, and then all of a sudden you start getting "past due" bills from MCI.
1) MCI has NO BUSINESS sending me "bills".
2) It's deceptive.
3) It's illegal.
4) The FTC *has* spanked companies over issues like this.
Why should verisign get away with it, just because "others do it too"?
Using that logic, M$ should be let off the hook just because "other companies violate federal law too".
Just because others do it doesn't mean it's OK for verisign to do it too.
Every registrar using these deceptive and illegal practices should be fined and/or shutdown by the FTC.
This is useful information, and proof that verisign is breaking federal law...
Of course I was being a little bit sarcastic. There are some benefits of government. Those are the benefits provided what government should do: national defense, national highway system, provide for domestic tranquility, and provide for a justice system to insure everyone's rights.
The thing is that the above tasks could all be accomplished on about 15% of what the federal budget spends...
There are millions of benefits to government.
I think millions might be pushing it too far...
Try living somewhere without one and I think you will find life there nasty, brutish, and short.
I live in Mexico. While there is a government, in many senses there might as well not be. Justice is sporadic both in business law and criminal law. Highway maintenance is almost non-existant. Sad thing is they still have highway robery levels of taxation without any benefits.
That said, life is annoying (I hate potholes) and frustrating (it's a bitch seeing people get away with murder, sometimes literally) but for the typical person that just minds his own business it's not really that bad.
Nonetheless, working outside the U.S. was your choice. You can either accept what that choice costs, or you can look into becoming a citizen of your adopted home.
But that's bogus. Basically they're taxing me for my right to call myself American, since I was born there. It's bad enough that we essentially rent our property (because if you don't pay property taxes they can take the property you own), but to literally tax U.S. citizenship is basless.
If I don't use the resources and don't cost the government anything, I certainly shouldn't have to pay into their coffers.
None of that changes my fundamental belief in the necessity of government, nor in the unfortunate side effect of that necessity: The power to raise and levy taxes.
I agree. Taxes are a necesarry evil, as is some level of government.
However, even leaving the whole "How much government is justified and necessary?" discussion alone, the tax code definitely needs to be made not just fairer but more logical.
Personally, I believe the self-employment tax should by all means be eliminated. The self-employed still need to pay their income taxes, but shouldn't have to pay self-employment tax. Sure, that means no-one is paying the "employer's half" of the income taxes (which is deceptive in and of itself) for the self-employed, but since self-employment (i.e. small business) is the workhorse of the new economy they should do everything to stimulate it in the hopes that the business grows to further build the economy.
I'll disregard any supposed "small business assistance" offered by the government until self-employment tax is repealed. They can talk about helping small businesses and the entrepreneur all they want, but until they stop taxing the person who is already going out on a limb to start a new business then all it is is words...
FTC policy statement on misleading advertising
I got the warning from godaddy.com so I'm not going to be deceived in this case, but if I hadn't received that warning I would likely have at least been confused. (I would have read the fine print and not done it, but I'm a cynical SOB.)
Interland got me for $60 with their faux-invoice back in December. The domain name I thought I was renewing was originally registered in my behalf by a third party, so I was unaware that Interland wasn't the correct registrar.
It gets better-- they cashed that $60 check long ago, but my domain records still indicate that my domain will expire at the end of this coming April. I never got any sort of acknowledgement from them. AND, in the last couple of months they have sent me two more identical "YOUR DOMAIN NAME WILL EXPIRE SOON" notices, probably in the hopes that I'll be dumb enough to pay those, too.
On the entire mailing, it only says "This is not an invoice" in one spot, in fairly small print, buried in a block of text. Clearly not in compliance with the postal regulations you linked to. I just finished filling out a mail fraud complaint on the USPS web site. Anyone else who fell for Interland's little scheme should go fill it out, too.
~Philly
NetSoil simply helped themselves to my credit card... Without an invoice or anything, they took $35 bucks. Wrote to them, and sure, they were willing to help me out. Just fax them the invoice.
Followup e-mail went unanswered (and at the time they still held my domain hostage, so I couldn't just get it back from the credit card company either).
I'm glad I've seen the last of them. And even moving was like pulling teeth. Their e-mail system ate the transfer request (delivered according to my mail logs), and after a week they had the guts to send me a thank-you not for not tranferring the domain. Needless to say, followup e-mail to the assistance mailbox mentioned in the thank-you note went unanswered. A second try succeeded mere days before they would've been able to block the transfer for non-payment of the renewal.
Bert Driehuis -- All I asked was a friggin' rotatin' chair. Throw me a bone here, people.