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Cells From Liposuction Function As Stem Cells?
texchanchan writes "Plastic surgeon Peter Fodor MD filtered stem cells out of fat sucked from people's oversized body parts, then cultured them into 'bone, cartilage, skeletal muscle and nerve cells.' At the rate of 10,000 stem cells per cm3 that's a lot of stem cells. Combine that with this and you might be on the road to regeneration. And, you can have your stem cells banked for later disasters after your liposuction."
Large linux hackers now will have a source of real income
Who run Barter Town?
And all this time I have been using it to make plastic explosives. Stupid Brad Pitt.
Michael Loves Me!
The cells that come out of fat are unwanted anyway, so why not just use them. The right really shouldn't have a problem, as long as they don't use it to grow babies for research, otherwise, they'll be howling to the moon, although they probably will anyway..
Slashdot Hypocrisy at work?
to help people who have health problems and not freak out the religious. This is a very good thing.
Albuquerque PC
This article is narrow, and consequently difficult to read. Could someone please widen this for me? Thanks!
Of course, thanks to Bush and company, it's going to be illegal to do any research on them.
Having Liposuction? Give the Fat to Scientists
Wed May 1, 6:10 PM ET
By Kathleen Doheny
LAS VEGAS (Reuters Health) - If you're undergoing liposuction, you're no doubt happy to kiss that unsightly fat goodbye. But you might not want to throw it away.
The excess fat that looks so bad on your tummy, backside or thighs, it turns out, is a mother lode of stem cells, and some cosmetic surgeons now suggest you might want to bank that fat. Later, they hope to draw on those banked stem cells--unspecialized cells that can be transformed into many different types of specialized cells--for use in additional cosmetic procedures or other types of operations or treatments, if necessary.
"Fat happens to be rich in stem cells," said Dr. Peter Fodor, a plastic surgeon at Century City Hospital near Los Angeles and a UCLA clinical associate professor of plastic surgery, who will present his latest research Wednesday at the annual meeting of the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery in Las Vegas. Every 100 cubic centimeters of bone marrow yields up to 10,000 stem cells, Fodor told Reuters Health. But the same amount of fat contains a million stem cells.
In their research, Fodor and his colleagues isolated stem cells from liposuction specimens of 10 patients and grew them into more fat cells as well as into bone, cartilage, skeletal muscle and nerve cells.
"The possibilities are endless," Fodor said. Suppose a patient is involved in a motor vehicle accident and bone is needed for repair. "You could take their stored stem cells, make bone, put it back in (their body) to heal up the fracture," Fodor said. Or, a woman may have fat removed from her thighs, bank it, and then, later have it injected into her hands to give them a more youthful look.
Besides finding a rich source of stem cells in the discarded fat, Fodor and his team found the fat to be a source of collagen, the fibrous part of bone, cartilage, tendons and other connective tissue. Fodor and his colleagues harvested the collagen from the liposuction specimens of 10 patients and then successfully reinjected it into soft tissues. For example, this reinjected collagen might plump up a face that has begun to look emaciated with age.
As for stem cells, using those collected from a patient's body eliminates the risk of rejection when later reintroduced. It also avoids the ethical issues involved in using stem cells derived from embryos. Stem cells are already being looked at by researchers to treat a variety of diseases and conditions, including Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease (news - web sites), stroke, burns, heart disease and diabetes.
One of Fodor's co-presenters, Dr. Marc Hedrick, is the CEO of StemSource in Thousand Oaks, California, which banks stem cells from liposuction patients.
Fees for StemSource banking are not yet set, said Dr. John K. Fraser, StemSource's chief scientific officer and a veteran stem cell researcher. But he expects the initial collection and processing cost, which will be charged by participating doctors, to be about $1500 to $2000, including 5 years of storage. After the initial 5 years, the storage fee is expected to be about $100 per year. Those who donate up to 10% of their cells for research will receive an additional 5 years free storage, Fraser said.
The average surgeon's fee for liposuction is $2,049, according to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons.
The concept of using banked stem cells from liposuctioned fat for future procedures "sounds feasible," said Dr. Farshid Guilak, director of orthopedic research at Duke University Medical Center and a stem cell and arthritis researcher. His lab and at least one other have also grown stem cells from fat into the more specialized cells, he said.
However, he cautioned that a number of studies will be required to prove that using stem cells from liposuctioned fat for cosmetic or reconstructive procedures works well. "We need to prove that transformation of cells from one type to another is irreversible," Guilak said. The safety of the procedures must also be proven.
Slashdot, come for the goatse, stay for the trolls.
I'm rather skinny...
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
That just gives "suck my ass" a whole new meaning.
AMCGLTD.COM. Where cats, science fictio
I'm not fat, I'm merely continually regenerating.
FatPhil
Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
...Enlarge your P****
I wish it would be that easy to suck the bloat out of MS products.
I guess that's better than turning it into soap!
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
will now be able to provide the world with stem cells
So does this mean the fatter I get, the more stem cells I'll have to repair my body later in life? Quick, somebody hand me that tub of Ben & Jerry's!
10,000 per every 100cc is the rate I saw on the article. But even at 100 per cc that's still a lot of stem cells. So even with the total costs you're talking about a nice bank of totally rejection proof stem cells at under 20k. That's almost 1/10 of the price I've seen quoted as a "reasonable estimate" in the last few articles. "attention Kmart shoppers, stem cells kits are now on blue light special!"
Find out about my new childrens book: SS Death Camp Criminal Batallion Go To Monte Carlo For The Massacre
At last, I've found my calling ... I'm to be a stem-cell donor ... he11, I'm gonna be the mother lode!
Make some sense or go home, moron.
I've seen the man...he could keep a whole lotta people hooked up with spare parts. :)
Does anyone who followed Groening's Life In Hell remember "Akbar and Jeff's Liposuction Hut"?
This page accidentally left blank
I don't think making a liver out of greasy fat is the best way to go...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
having a fat ass will lead you to the road of health.
plain old text (Score:0)
... (Score:1) ... I'm to be a stem-cell donor ... he11, I'm gonna be the mother lode!
... (Score:0)
by trollercoaster on 14:06 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452535)
(User #250101 Info | http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: 12:21 Thursday 04 October 2001)
Having Liposuction? Give the Fat to Scientists
Wed May 1, 6:10 PM ET
By Kathleen Doheny
LAS VEGAS (Reuters Health) - If you're undergoing liposuction, you're no doubt happy to kiss that unsightly fat goodbye. But you might not want to throw it away.
The excess fat that looks so bad on your tummy, backside or thighs, it turns out, is a mother lode of stem cells, and some cosmetic surgeons now suggest you might want to bank that fat. Later, they hope to draw on those banked stem cells--unspecialized cells that can be transformed into many different types of specialized cells--for use in additional cosmetic procedures or other types of operations or treatments, if necessary.
"Fat happens to be rich in stem cells," said Dr. Peter Fodor, a plastic surgeon at Century City Hospital near Los Angeles and a UCLA clinical associate professor of plastic surgery, who will present his latest research Wednesday at the annual meeting of the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery in Las Vegas. Every 100 cubic centimeters of bone marrow yields up to 10,000 stem cells, Fodor told Reuters Health. But the same amount of fat contains a million stem cells.
In their research, Fodor and his colleagues isolated stem cells from liposuction specimens of 10 patients and grew them into more fat cells as well as into bone, cartilage, skeletal muscle and nerve cells.
"The possibilities are endless," Fodor said. Suppose a patient is involved in a motor vehicle accident and bone is needed for repair. "You could take their stored stem cells, make bone, put it back in (their body) to heal up the fracture," Fodor said. Or, a woman may have fat removed from her thighs, bank it, and then, later have it injected into her hands to give them a more youthful look.
Besides finding a rich source of stem cells in the discarded fat, Fodor and his team found the fat to be a source of collagen, the fibrous part of bone, cartilage, tendons and other connective tissue. Fodor and his colleagues harvested the collagen from the liposuction specimens of 10 patients and then successfully reinjected it into soft tissues. For example, this reinjected collagen might plump up a face that has begun to look emaciated with age.
As for stem cells, using those collected from a patient's body eliminates the risk of rejection when later reintroduced. It also avoids the ethical issues involved in using stem cells derived from embryos. Stem cells are already being looked at by researchers to treat a variety of diseases and conditions, including Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease (news - web sites), stroke, burns, heart disease and diabetes.
One of Fodor's co-presenters, Dr. Marc Hedrick, is the CEO of StemSource in Thousand Oaks, California, which banks stem cells from liposuction patients.
Fees for StemSource banking are not yet set, said Dr. John K. Fraser, StemSource's chief scientific officer and a veteran stem cell researcher. But he expects the initial collection and processing cost, which will be charged by participating doctors, to be about $1500 to $2000, including 5 years of storage. After the initial 5 years, the storage fee is expected to be about $100 per year. Those who donate up to 10% of their cells for research will receive an additional 5 years free storage, Fraser said.
The average surgeon's fee for liposuction is $2,049, according to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons.
The concept of using banked stem cells from liposuctioned fat for future procedures "sounds feasible," said Dr. Farshid Guilak, director of orthopedic research at Duke University Medical Center and a stem cell and arthritis researcher. His lab and at least one other have also grown stem cells from fat into the more specialized cells, he said.
However, he cautioned that a number of studies will be required to prove that using stem cells from liposuctioned fat for cosmetic or reconstructive procedures works well. "We need to prove that transformation of cells from one type to another is irreversible
Read the rest of this comment...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
There's only one problem (Score:0, Redundant)
by Anonymous Bullard on 14:06 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452536)
(User #62082 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
I'm rather skinny...
--
A. Bullard
the Mooh dept.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Whoa Nelly (Score:0, Troll)
by dscottj on 14:06 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452538)
(User #115643 Info | http://www.amcgltd.com/)
That just gives "suck my ass" a whole new meaning.
-----
AMCGLTD.COM [amcgltd.com]. Where Science Fiction, Anger, and Cats come together.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
That'll be my excuse from now on... (Score:2, Funny)
by fatphil on 14:06 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452539)
(User #181876 Info | http://fatphil.org/)
I'm not fat, I'm merely continually regenerating.
FatPhil
--
Usually at karma-cap, please upmod my troller account instead.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Gives a whole new meaning to... (Score:0, Troll)
by fehlschlag on 14:07 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452541)
(User #543974 Info)
...Enlarge your P****
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Fight Club (Score:1, Redundant)
by mjh on 14:07 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452547)
(User #57755 Info | http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: 16:18 Thursday 17 January 2002)
I guess that's better than turning it into soap!
--
Software Liability? Geez, I hope not. [slashdot.org]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
/. readers (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on 14:07 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452548)
will now be able to provide the world with stem cells
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Yay! (Score:1)
by MarkusH on 14:08 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452555)
(User #198450 Info)
Every 100 cubic centimeters of bone marrow yields up to 10,000 stem cells, Fodor told Reuters Health. But the same amount of fat contains a million stem cells.
So does this mean the fatter I get, the more stem cells I'll have to repair my body later in life? Quick, somebody hand me that tub of Ben & Jerry's!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
10,000? (Score:3, Interesting)
by AlaskanUnderachiever on 14:09 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452562)
(User #561294 Info)
10,000 per every 100cc is the rate I saw on the article. But even at 100 per cc that's still a lot of stem cells. So even with the total costs you're talking about a nice bank of totally rejection proof stem cells at under 20k. That's almost 1/10 of the price I've seen quoted as a "reasonable estimate" in the last few articles. "attention Kmart shoppers, stem cells kits are now on blue light special!"
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:10,000? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on 14:12 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452590)
I assume they'd just combine the cutlery & vaccum cleaner sections for that.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Found my calling
by rHOnDO (hunter@snowgoose.com) on 14:10 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452568)
(User #513440 Info)
At last, I've found my calling
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Found my calling
by Anonymous Coward on 14:12 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452589)
You misspelled "load".
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Sixteenth post! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on 14:10 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452571)
2^4 post!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
soap (Score:1)
by bj3g2j on 14:11 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452582)
(User #309443 Info)
tonight, we make soap.
-- oh that's nice
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Unfortunately... (Score:3, Funny)
by EFGearman (`egearman' `at' `ibss.net') on 14:12 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452587)
(User #245715 Info)
All my stem cells will be barbecue-flavored.
EFGearman
Atomic batteries to power! Turbines to speed!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Joke net (Score:3, Funny)
by interiot on 14:13 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452601)
(User #50685 Info | http://68k.org/~interiot/)
All "For once I'm glad I'm so fat!" jokes, please post under here.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Joke net (Score:1)
by ndinsil on 14:15 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452616)
(User #454614 Info)
For once I'm glad I'm so fat!
(Someone had to do it.)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Comming soon to a neighborhood near you. (Score:2)
by www.sorehands.com on 14:13 Thursday 02 May 2002 (#3452602)
(User #142825 Info | http://www.barbieslapp.com/)
A Fat-stem cell donation center. Next to the Red Cross blood donation center.
Donate your fat cells, get free liposuction, juice, and a cookie.
Being fat is an evolutionary advantage.
I'm a Biology major currently, so I'm right in there with the cloning stuff. I'm rather curious as to how the anti-cloning people are going to react to this; seeing as how the major argument AGAINST stem cell research is the usage of embryos, the use of fat-based stem cells should THEORETICALLY be OK. At least there's a nigh-endless source of fat cells, so we won't have any problem getting raw materials.
Personally, I'm just waiting for some religious nut to condemn this on the grounds that fat cells have souls. I dunno...if my fat were sentient, I think I'd have a lot more to worry about than just stem cell research.
"It never got weird enough for me." - HST (RIP)
Seriously, I guess if I can manage to actually
achieve normal weight for awhile (I'm too skinny),
it might be worthwhile to do that just for the
purpose of harvesting some fat in case of later
damage...
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
People, before getting excited about the stem cells in your bellies, have in mind the way media tend to represent science...
So far stem cells haven't really been successfully used in all the magical ways the article suggests. We have a long way to go on that. And that means research. And THAT's what stem cells are good for and really needed. I hope the whole argument about stem cells will shift, now that there are more pallatable sources of stem cells than human embrios, umbilical cords and so forth. It's a whole other question how voters are gonna take it, though (see the Science literacy discussion)
In related news: Through selling their fat to science, millions of fat, ugly, poor people became slender, beautiful, rich people, tusly throwing off the delicate natural balance where 90% of the population is unfit (Darwinally speaking) to breed, leading to a previously unimaginable population boom as people proceed to "get it on", which causes widespread overpopulation (although skinny people do admittedly take up significantly less room than their beefier counter-parts), mass starvation (which in a poetic justice sort of way leads to more skinny people, sex, and babies, rinse, lather, repeat), and ultimately the demise of Western Civilization. But what a way to go ;)
any wealthy skinny people want some fat... er... stem cells, yeah, stem cells... to "bank" away for future needs? if you'll pay for the lyposuction and a nominal fee, i've got about 50 pounds i'm willing to part with.
-rp
I hope this means that one day I can have liposuction paid for by my insurance company. They can suck out my fat, use the stem cells to grow a complete set of new organs for me, and transplant the new and unrejectable organs. Poof! A skinner, brand new me!
-- Adam
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2002 OSDN
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2002 OSDN
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2002 OSDN
Some of us who consider ourselves right of center on many matters (fiscal matters, matters of law and authority, individual freedoms) may not be part of the "right-to-life" crowd. Please let us try to keep that in mind! I acknowledge the right of the "right-to-life" crowd to characterize an embryo as a "human being" and thus decide that any work on embryos (or destruction of same) isn't acceptable to them, but that doesn't mean that everyone on the "right" of the political spectrum agrees!
I agree that it would be a good thing (because of the stand some people have on embryonic work) to have an alternative. I too hope this pans out.
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
BTW, can you get stem cells to divide in the laboratory and remain stem cells? If so, it seems that the quantity extracted shouldn't matter. This really does sound like a convenient source, though.
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That was the sound of the joke flying over your head at Mach 2.
Liposuction fee = $2049
Stem cell processing = $1200
Stem cell storage = $100/yr
The self-storage option begins to look attractive!
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
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This is very hopeful! Be your own best friend.... lose some weight via liposuction (get healthier, if the surgery doesn't kill you) and at the same time create a pool of stem cells that can be used to help regenerate yourself and other people (potentially, if everything works out). Now, I'm assuming your own stem cells are most likely more compatible with your own body chemistry, so they'd be the most use in healing you.
:) Thin and healthy in one (slightly complex) step....
Gee, I hope this pans out....
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
the fact that thin people are 4.8 times more likely to develope ALS and I've got to confess that I'm somewhat glad that I haven't kept any of my new years resolutions.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
As dangerous as Lyposuction is at least it isn't as immoral as aborting fetuses for stem cells. Epecially since any progress that has been made medically with stem cells has used adult stem cells not fetus ones.
Ok, so we can grow stem cells into any other tissue. How long before a single stem cell can be coaxed into growing a limb? Acutally the limb is probably harder than just growing a whole embryo.
Will the every sperm is sacred crowd move into the no diet corner?
es before posting your or people's messages before posting your or people's messages before posting your oo
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Man made Beer. The earth made marijuana. who do you trust?
I trust my stomach
Eating ice cream and chocolate now will increase your life span. The only other thing you need is an artificial heart.
Start running to the fridge and hope that science will save your fat ass.
From what I know about stem cell banking, everything is still done on a private pay basis. I've seen a few brochures on banking fetal umbilical cord blood cells for possible use in future stem cell transplants. One thing those brochures never mention is the small percentage of people that will actually make use of those stem cells. Reading through the brochures, it seems more like they're playing off your fears that your child MIGHT get a cancer in the future that MIGHT get cured by those stem cells you're paying a couple hundred dollars a year to store. If you actually compared the number of banked stem cells that have been used in this manner to the total number of accounts at these cell banks, you'd find that a very small percentage (less than 1% i think) are actually used. We sat down and did the math and it comes out to a little over $200,000 per PERSON. This is definitely not financially viable which is why insurance companies will never pay for it.
It's just like those ads you see on TV that advertise getting full-body CT scans. Sure you can go and get scanned and possibly find some sort of cancer and end up having your life saved, but if you extend this to the whole country, it's not financially viable. The yield of finding cancer (especially in young, healthy people) is so low that it is impractical to scan everyone.
Your actions on earth echo in eternity.
Just because the fat is gone, doesn't mean you are any healthier. There still is cholestrol, high blood pressure and gazillions of problems that excerise helps reduce. Liposuction doesn solve any of them
...a bit more ethical and acceptable than previous methods of getting stem cells.
--Kylus
Idiot-proof something, and Life will build a better Idiot.
"Plastic surgeon Peter Fodor MD filtered stem cells out of fat sucked from people's oversized body parts..." "Combine that with this and you might be on the road to regeneration."
Yeah... I knew that... I'm not fat, I'm saving up body parts in case I need them.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Ewwwwwww....
Example
Quebec may revise Civil Code to stop human cloning ,
Russia bans human cloning,
or even
Bush prods Senate to adopt ban on all cloning
People are afraid of where this might lead, and seem to care less where the cells come from. The way countries(not counting Quebec) are headed it will be legaly removed from the posibility.
'God' forbid there may be other uses for stem cells besides Full Human cloning. I'm sure one or another person might agree.
So Get ready to die from your congenital heart defect because you can't clone yourself a new heart.
Thanx GW!
But I'll beleive this when they pump some nice new cartilage back into my knees!
eat marijuana
The venerable Catholic Church is currently under an anti-christian slander campaign. In the modern times there has not been such a blatant attack on the Church.
Please help us fight the evil and ignore these ridiculous claims.
that you should sell all your stem cells and buy me a delorean.
cue the rim-shot!
So if an Alzheimer's patient is cured with stem cells, does that mean they'll go from being senile to being fatheads?
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Yeah,
The reason I should go through the risk of surgery to have my thighs reshaped is not to improve the way they look, it's a procative health procedure!
Yippee! Thank you thank you Thank you for such a rational!
reference to the prick song of the same name?
:)
god i love that album
I've always thought that Jenny Craig should expand right next to a McD's, but this will do fine if the technology shows promise.
Very similar to Moe's Retox Center right next to the Detox Center on Simpsons.
---- The geek shall inherit the Earth.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
So anyway, in this particular case, it's great that they can isolate such large quantities of stem cells safely from an adult human, but it's still rather limiting. All those cells will ever be able to form is bone, cartilage, and whatever else that particular type of multipotent cell can give rise to. This is why it's still important to many biologists to be able to collect less-differentiated stem cells. With only that type of cell, we may not be able to learn much about diseases that aren't specifically related to that limited set of tissues. (Though of course there's still a lot left to be learned about even a specific type of multipotent stem cell.)
Steven N. Severinghaus
A big potential problem with stem cells harvested from fatty tissue is that the fatty tissue is where your body tends to store any chlorinated (or other halogenated) hydrocarbons/organic molecules that you happen to ingest during your lifetime. Halogenated organics have a bad tendency to be carcinogenic and mutagenic, so how would you trust that the genetic material in such stem cells has not been compromised? All kinds of toxic stuff like DDT, PCBs, etc that were spread all over our environment are now irremovably incorporated into much of our food supply and yes, everyone who lives and eats in the continental USA has a fair amount of these substances stored in all your fatty tissues.
As a Texan, I am sure he understands how to play Possum and he seems to be playing it very well with the Democrats. Guess the cloning issue is moot now with more evidence that adult stem cells do the same as aborted fetus cells. It might be a good idea for his political opposition to drop the "Bush is a Stupid Idiot" line of attack because if he is an idiot and he beats them at every punch, what can you say about them?
Oh wait, this isn't a political site. Never mind! :)
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Next time I have to fill out a driver's license application, I can put "fat ass" down in the organ donor questionnaire part and be completely serious about it.
Not the slashdot variety. Every action provokes an inevitable karmic reaction. Karma works in forward as well as reverse. The Catholic church has slaughtered millions of innocents over the centuries. The grip was loosened in the 18th century; soon Catholics everywhere will be righteously persecuted.
Repeat after me:Hare Krishna
Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna
Hare Hare
Hare Rama
Hare Rama
Rama Rama
Hare Hare
The bad news is that Mrs. Smith suffered a stroke after a liposuction procedure dislodged a little too much fat into her bloodstream. The good news is that we can rebuild her - for a modest fee.
Perhaps "serial killer" wasnt't the best example, now was it?
The only time when the phrase "I pulled it out of my ass" is not sarcasm.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
Bottom Line: if you get an abortion or a liposuction, you are doing science a favor.
People can be so stupid sometimes. Why in the world are people crying about not being able to study using tissue of humans in the embryonic stage? Our morals have gone straight down the crapper.
It's like George W Bush outsmarted everyone this time!
I hereby offer my vast stores of lipids for the benefit of humanity.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Gee, I have multiple sclerosis, and one of the more promising treatments to re-myelinate neve sheaths is stem cell transplants. I'm also overweight - gee, it's hard to lose weight when you can't move fast enough to exercise :(
...
This would be a great way to kill two birds with one stone! This looks even better than bone marrow stem cells, or nasal stem cells. Now, how to come up with the money from my SSDI payments
Lemon curry?
This is really old news. Adult stem cell research has produced results in tests, is starting to mature, and seems to be free of many of the technical problems plaguing embryonic stem cell research such as rejection and the formation of cancerous cells. This is not even considering the ethical problems surrounding the manufacturing of humans for harvest.
Please see the following website for links and further information:
http://www.stemcellresearch.org/
Barring some kind of an anti-right conspiracy, it is difficult to understand why there is so little coverage of adult stem cell breakthroughs in the mainstream media.
But from the prejudiced tone of your ridiculous post, it sounds like an anti-right conspiracy might not be so far-fetched. So how many credit hours in the field of Intolerance must once complete nowadays to get a degree in Biology?
Cloning theoretically makes men unnecessary.
Once human cloning has been perfected, and once women figure out how to change the oil in their own cars (*), men are toast.
(*) Not that all men do; but if you look at the gender breakdown of your average Jiffy Lube you'll know what I mean.
...and can't you just wait until your relatives are old and needy? "Dan, could you put on 20 pounds for your dear, sweet momma?"
Seriously, i can't wait till they combine this with nanotechnology. Then you really have real-time regeneration. Slice my finger off, nanobots convert fat cells into stem cells, put them into place and remake the nerve/bone/muscle/skin cells into a whole new finger. Sounds groovy to me, only about 30-40 years away from this (or less).
Immortality, here i come.
As I said, I sure hope this becomes an acceptable source of stem cells, but I realize sometimes these things don't pan out.
From what I'm reading here, it seems there is indeed a problem. Embryonic stem cells are "pluripotent" stem cells, which is a step above the "multipotent" stem cells available from this procedure. Apparently the multipotent stem cells cannot produce as many types of tissues as the pluripotent type. So unfortunately, this may not be an adequate solution.
But the results still remain to be seen; I earnestly hope we will find ways to fill this need without having to take more embryoes.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Morons there are many different types of stem cells. Embryonic stem cells are better for several reason, then their respective adult counterparts no matter where you find them, in fat, shit, etc... Right wing religous conservatives simply can't grasp this. Embryos (at the stage they are harvested) have no brain functions, they dont even look like people at all. Using them for research IS perfectly ethical. Millions of real people die every day from diseases which we can find cures to, they are worth more too me than a bunch of cells in a dish, that you would otherwise flush down the toilet.
Looks like Ed Norton & Brad Pitt's soap making business is going to go bankrupt.
I'm curious how it is that every fertilized embryo is a potential life? Most women can only have around one child every year, and yet they ovulate every month. Given that we can artifically fertilize almost every harvested egg, it seems that we have a surplus!
Clearly there are many fertilized embryos that have no potential to become developed humans. What is the moral obstacle to the use of these surplus embryos?
Long time listener first time caller...
You all are missing the point here. Screw the hands or face..stick it where it wants to be, in the Boobs!! They are fat anyway...breakthrough all natural breast enlargement! Isn't science wonderful!
Guess the cloning issue is moot now with more evidence that adult stem cells do the same as aborted fetus cells.
/. summary): ... then cultured them into bone, cartilage, skeletal muscle and nerve cells.
C'mon read the article (or even just the
Peter Fodor
Only these four types of cells were produced from the fat cells. Researchers have known for some time that fat cells were "multipotent", i.e. able to produce cells of many other types. However, they also know that embryonic stem cells are "totipotent", i.e. able to produce cells of all other types. So, research into other sources of totipotent stem cells is still highly desirable.
Also, the banned stem cell research in question involves the use of embryonic stem cells (i.e. cells cultured in a Petri dish for the purposes of in vitro fertilization), not "cells from aborted fetuses", since they aren't stem cells anyway.
Regardless of that, the ban on the use of embryonic stem cells doesn't even make sense from an ethical perspective: why should it be somehow nobler to take the embryonic stem cells produced for IVF and throw them away , instead of doing life-saving research on them?
The standard response to this is that people will somehow "justify" obtaining an abortion on the grounds that the cells will go to some use, but as I just said, those cells come from IVF, which couples only use as an absolute last resort anyway (it's very expensive - over $20,000 per attempt; very painful; and still only about 20% successful.)
Finally, do you really think Bush came up with that idea on his own? He said himself that it was the result of long, intense debate with lots of people.
So, I'm not about to peel off my "Bush Is A Stupid Idiot" bumper sticker any time soon. (Just kidding. The only bumper sticker I have says "Nader/LaDuke.")
This is of cause good news for G.W Bush, who is trying to, and will ultimately suceed in banning the use of stem cells from embryos. A slightly old European viewpoint of this can be found at the BBC .
This time I could be arsed.
Perhaps the parent poster was referring to the collection of umbilical cord blood. Or perhaps, even more likely, the parent was simply referring to the continuing search for other sources of totipotent stems cells within the adult human body. Your huge leap to the conclusion that the post was somehow an apologism for abortion was utterly unjustified and off-topic. How on earth did anybody get the idea that people were going around inducing abortions to collect the stem cells??
I'd say "Godwin" is definitely appropriate. (Was that just a typo on your part, or is "Godwin" a verb now?)
Let's say that "Bob" gets mad at "Bill" for some minor reason (e.g. Bill looked at Bob's wife the wrong way). Bob then kills Bill. Everyone else forces their belief that it was wrong to kill Bill on Bob, either in the form of inprisoning him or executing him.
"Joe" steals "Nancy's" car. The community forces their belief on Joe that he should not have stolen Nancy's car by taking it away from him and then putting him in prison for several years.
These are all examples of a group of people forcing their beliefs on another. If you think that this is incorrect, and people who think that stealing is wrong should just tell thieves their "point of view" and leave it at that, well, then, please tell me what your address is, as I could use a new car.
More directly, why is it that people who believe that killing a fetus is murder only get to force their views on murder on that subset of murderers who happen to have killed people who had been born?
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
The whole human race is diagnosed with severe cardiovascular disease and colesteral intolerance not to mention 89% of the pulation being obese and the remaining 11% are overweight.
Why?
Seams that an overabundance of those weight-gain genes were distributed in the early 2000 years to fight cancer.
:-)
My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so
first u go on talking about "cloacking" all the time and even spell it wrong and now ur telling me ur making bones out of fat? uuuh hum. don't u ppl know alchemy and magic are long dead?!
;P)
--tzan
p.s.for all the ppl u who didn't realize that's a joke: go hang urself wiht ur shoelaces!
p.p.s. i will not be responisible if anybody does wht i just mentioned (nowadays u gotta b carfull
Keyword: FERTILIZED!
Just because an egg drops (most) every month, doesn't mean it's fertilized. Yes there is the potential to artificially fertilize every egg, but that is merely a potential. The act of fertilization provides the potential to become a human being. There is where your argument falls on its face.
stem cell research is just one of many examples.
And on many of the other examples you do THE EXACT SAME THING. I will assume (though I may be wrong) that you support laws against rape, slavery, pedophilia. because you "believe, rightly or wrongly" that these things are wrong and then force those beliefs on others (If nobody disagreed we wouldn't need laws at all now would we?).
(If you are a pro-slavery NAMBLA member in prison for rape I apoligise for accusing you of logical inconsistency)
"At the rate of 10,000 stem cells per cm3"
Funny, I thought that rates had something to do with time...
1: a magnitude or frequency relative to a time unit; "they traveled at a rate of 55 miles per hour"; "the rate of change was faster than expected"
Just think of the untapped riches in the
blubber of fat and lazy americans!
I believe that most people in the pro-life camp think that those in the pro-choice camp believe that killing is bad but sanctioneable. Not that killing is good.
No, they are wrong. Many of us actually believe that conciousness is worth preserving. Not a lump of cells.
Thus we do not value a the early stages of an embryo as much as a more mature embryo.
I personaly view an embryo as a potential person. And, yes, taking that potential away is unfortunate.
But billions of eggs and sperms are wasted every day, and every one of them holds this potential (to a lesser degree), who mourns them?
Fact is, not all potential humans can get a shot at existance, so we better make sure that those who do get a good shot at it!
And that is one of the reasons I am pro-choice.
If you are to young and pregnant, have an abortion. You may waste that potential but you can have another baby later, when you are ready, and give that potential human (who wouldn't get the chance otherwise, people doesn't make infinite number of babys) a better start in life.
Just my 0.02 kr
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
The parent post had discussed why it is still important to collect totipotent stem cells. The only current source being embryos, it was thus proposing exactly what I argued against.
Cloning does not make men unneeded. All you get is carbon coipies with progressive genetic damage.
But, there is already science afoot that makes us males unneeded. A fertility research center is Autrailia (I wish I could find a link, but I can't) is doing research that would allow any cell in a doner body to act as an erzats sperm cell. This was originally devised to hel;p men who were 100% sterile.
Of course, two women having a child this way will only be able to have daughters.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
I'll contribute to the research of science. Someone come suck my overweight body.
Actually, this is not true.
At least two groups claim otherwise.
- Racists who think that black/white/whatever people are not fully human, or at least "not equally equal" to the rest of humanity.
- Then, you have (more interestingly) those who don't make a distinction between human life and other suficciently advanced life (usually mamal).
I hate the guts of the first group, but the other one has a point, well, sort of...I don't think there is any "objective" reason to value human life higher than, say a horse.
I do however value human life higher than other lifeforms, but that is a completely subjective stance to take. I value mankind higher because they are my species!
And I value my friends and family higher than the rest of mankind, because I know them.
I mean, if you ask any (non religious) human what makes a life more valuable than another they would answer intelligence (naturally, because it places us on top).
If you could ask the horse however, I think you would get a completely different answer that would classify horses as the most valuable life form.
Values are completely subjective, and depend entirely on who you ask.
If this wasn't true, there would for example be no war. A large part of training for war is objectification of the enemy.
(It's hard to kill an actual person, since most people value human life.)
For example, the enemy is often given a nickname to isolate them from the rest of mankind in the troops eyes. Some american examples are Fritz (German), Charlie/Gooks (Vietnamese), Skinnies (Somalian), Chrunchies/Towel Heads (Iraki).
This has been done by all armies in all times.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
And, you can have your stem cells banked for later disasters after your liposuction."
Disaster? Lipo's gross as hell, but most times I wouldn't call it a disaster.
I thought the only thing this removed human fat was good for was soap...
Kind of makes you see that quote in a new light. Now waiting for the 'web services' people to say something like "SOAP. I make and sell SOAP."
--
If you moderate this, then your children will be next.
Hmm, I thought we had a simple miscommunication. Until this discussion, I really hadn't realized that there were intelligent, well-informed people who objected to IVF on moral grounds. You learn something new every day...
Unfortunately, that probably only widens the gap between us. I suppose I should have known better than to wade into such a polarized debate. Godwin indeed; this discussion isn't going to go anywhere.
There are moral arguments to IVF in general, but a) they're off-topic and b) I've no real formed opinion on them.
Is this the same Senator Hatch that thought the DMCA was a good idea? Sounds like maybe his judgement is a little suspect.
Are we related?
I am not coservitive and I have plenty of reasons for my convictions about everything from science literacy to abortion, btw I am pro-life I don't need a god to tell me that dehuhumanizing and destroying human life is ethically wrong.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
He was making nitroglycerin (eventualy TNT).
Sheesh. You'd think people don't read the anarchists handbook anymore.
Of course, he did it the hard way. Glycerin is the easy chemical to get, check the hair care aisle.
so gwb was right and superman is an immoral jackass, the ends dont justify the means there are always alternatives
Now you can literally eat your way to a long life, lol.
My mom never taught me to sign.
In japan it's legal to recombine human and animal DNA... So while the rest of the planet lives in fear of clones, the land of the rising sun will also be the land of the catgirl ;-)
Oh great, now the price of soap will skyrocket...
"Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
Advocates of abortion have been quick to use "science" as justification for their actions. It's an outrageous abuse of science, akin to advocating murder because the fat cells can now be used for research into stem cells. What's wrong with using rat embrios? Why butcher people for "research"? No, the abortionists don't care about anyone but themselves. Your specific issue will be useful to craven people, and it won't be true tomorrow when people figure out how to make this fat dance a little better.
Yesterday, I'm sure you would have laughed at the very idea of using liposcutioned fat cells for stem cell research. Heck, I'm still laughing, but mostly becuase it shows the abortionist argument that dead babies are the only source of stem cells as the complete bullshit.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
The use of liposcuctioned fat cells to make stem cells just goes to show how little we know and how much we are at the begining of this kind of study. Who knows what people will be able to make cells do next. The more we learn the more we can do.
I laughed out loud when I read it, but it's wonderful. Fat cells really are the undiferentiated cell mass the abortionists would like you to think an embrio is. Fat cells will never grow into a person and killing them or forcing them to grow into nerve cells is perfectly ethical.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
(grins)
Inside every fat person there are 1000s of 1,000,000s of thin people wanting to get out. :)
I'm not "big". I'm just nearer than I appear.
I am a Karma Library.
Keep up that sitting and snacking.
You dismiss the surplus of fertile cells produced by most of us as merely a potential.
Yet you advocate saving a 'potential' life by accepting the suffering of those who need stem cell therapy. Isn't there a slight hypocrisy here?
In the same argument, I could be judged a multiple murderer by having lived to the age of 21 and having made no moves to have children as yet. Don't I know that I have had the potential to have children and bring new life into the world for years?!! Oh my God, lock me up now!!!
Spelling out that 'The act of fertilization provides the potential to become a human being' may be accurate but at the same time misses the point. Most of us make a daily choice not to go out and get ovae fertilised, and in doing so, allow them to die. Yet they contained within themselves the potential to be a new life. Which is where the entire 'potential' argument breaks down.
To my mind, for as long as a growing embryo/fetus/whatever is entirely dependent upon its mother to be brought to term, it's her business to choose what happens to it. It's a part of her, despite only sharing half her DNA. Why should she be a slave to it?
"What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist." Salman Rushdie
...than we thought.
Not only do THEY last forever, but they might even make you last forever.
(I suppose we'll see the undertakers filing suit against Hostess any day now...)
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
What is commonly called "liberalism" in the US is in fact usually something closer to socialism or marxism. True liberals are people like Thomas Jefferson, who was not exactly anti-religion. A true liberal nowadays is usually referred to as a libertarian.
As far as religion goes, the funny thing is, most "liberals" are in fact very religious. They believe in an entity that they believe should be all knowing, all powerful, in control of everything, and of course always benevolent. I am of course not talking about God but about Government. Nature abhors a vacuum. Liberals are generally athiests (or at least secular and not religious) and so they've simply chosen government as the "higher power" they believe in.
I've always said that religion stops a thinking mind. Well I'm coming to the conclusion that it is not religion that is stopping anyone from thinking but that there are people out there who cannot or will not think for themselves and that religions is simply one of many crutches that are used by the mentally incompetent to avoid having to deal with reality. Any ideology can be used as such a crutch. The most you can hope for is that the idiots choose an ideology that keeps them out of everyone's hair.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
I don't think it's wrong to critique somebody for trying to impose what you see as unwarranted regulations upon your behavior. That seems like a no-brainer to me, and a good starting point.
I think you're just overdoing your argument. You're saying, essentially, that if you impose any sort of standards on others, then it's hypocritical of you to criticize anybody else for trying to impose their standards on you. The implication is not only that you're a hypocrite, but that such hypocrisy is a BAD thing, and you're being UNREASONABLE by criticizing them.
Imagine that group X was trying (with some success) to pass a law that required you to keep your children locked up in small boxes until they turned 18 years old. The average non-anarchist would now be not only a hypocrite, but a BAD, UNFAIR person for speaking up to criticize the campaign. Pretty messed up where that sort of logic can lead, isn't it?
In some strict logical sense, what you say may be true. But to accept your argument would completely devalue the meaning of the word "hypocrisy". Either we need to get used to most of our actions being somewhat hypocritical by some standard or other-- OR we'd need to agree on less-absolute standards for judging hypocrisy (with all of the subjective baggage that would be required.)
The point is that logic can be a silly thing if used in the wrong way. Nothing says it better than that old Emerson saw: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds..."
This is my impression of your previous point:
"You support restrictive legislation to outlaw things like robbery and rape, don't you? Then you shouldn't critique the religious right for seeking this particular piece of restrictive legislation. And if you do, you're being a hypocrite."
So where do you draw the line?
And the point is, I don't have to say where I'll draw the line. But I won't draw it in such a way that I'm wrong to criticize what I consider to be stupid law.
If the religious right (or anyone else) wants to come right back at me and criticize the fact that I support laws against arson and insurance fraud, let 'em. They have that right. They even have the right to dislike me intensely if they feel that I'm imposing my views on them.
Course, something tells me that my views will be a lot less controversial to their camp (and the rest of America) than their views will. I also think that my views will naturally be supported by most Americans, and I won't have to resort to political bomb-throwing and quick-fix legislation in order to impose them on a public that (according to polls) doesn't necessarily agree.
Now if you accept that hypocracy is sometimes a sweet, wonderful thing, then I accept your argument. But the implication seemed to be that it's wrong to be a hypocrite.
So you've just made an argument that might, in theory, brand me as a nasty hypocrite for criticizing a plan to use toddlers as fertilizer. When your line of reasoning can produce such bogus results, don't you think that it might have some flaws?
All of your other points make sense, but this one's really out there.
This is an interesting development, but there's still something of a problem with the idea of using these stem cells. Adult stem cells are still pluripotent, but it is more difficult to have them become a certain type of cell. Embryonic stem cells are, well, "Uberpluripotent", because they change to any given somatic cell with relative ease.
I personally throw all of my support behind the idea of using excess fetuses from in vitro fertilization, as they would be thrown away in either case, but this way go to save lives. Why would this offend anyone at all?
Someone may have mentioned this, but you read too much into what they guy said. He basically just said (in the original post) that these stem cells may not provide all the information that embryonic stem cells do. I believe what he was saying was, "Unfortunately, it looks likely that this great discovery is still not the great discovery that will allow us to research stem cells in a way that everyone agrees is right."
Mostly he was just letting us know that we may not have the solution we're looking for, yet. He said it was still important to collect totipotent and pluripotent stem cells, but he did not say whether it was important enough to justify the taking of an unborn human's life. I think he did a good job of acknowledging both sides in making his statement. (He recognizes why it is important to many people to protect the lives of embryos, although he unfortunately may not personally agree with that.)
Before you repond, check my posting history. I'm very definitely on the same side of this as you are. The sides here aren't really us and them, though; it's them and the unborn. We're just tbe people behind the government that's supposed to step in and preserve the rights of the nonaggressive unborn. My main point is that we can't just say, "Well, most of us think embryos aren't people, so let's legalize ending their lives and using them for any purpose." A majority cannot vote to take away the rights of the minority. (Well, as we've seen in history, they can, but I mean it's not right to do it.) You have to prove a murderer guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt before executing him; we should have to prove an embryo to be a non-person beyond a shadow of a doubt before depriving him of his life and other rights of personhood. And there's more than just a shadow of a doubt here! :) The jury is the entire citizenry, and we haven't come to a unanimous verdict. Without a unanimous verdict, there hasn't been due process, and we can't just declare the embryos to be non-people and deprive them of their lives. We have to take the only course of action that guaratees we don't make a mistake and unjustly take a life.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
If so many people are calling you a nut that you are unsure when they aren't, maybe you should start paying a bit of attention.