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Post-it Notes vs. Copy-Inhibited CDs
rjoseph writes "MacUser is running an article about how the new Celine Dion CD A New Day Has Come with copy protection mechanisms to prevent the CD from being played on a PC not only won't play on an iMac, but it will lock the CD tray (so it can't be removed) and fubar the firmware (so the machine can't be rebooted), effectivley killing the iMac. Ouch." We mentioned this interesting experiment in consumer relations last month as well, but now it's getting noticed a lot more. However, emkman writes: "What was first thought to be an April Fool's joke, now appears to be true. Some Audio CD protection schemes such as Cactus DATA Shield 100/200, KeyAudio, and perhaps others may be defeated by invalidating the outer ring of the CD with a black marker or post-it sticky note. www.chip.de has their report in German, here is a translation."
GO buy one now!! I want a new computer at their expense!
--sig fault--
Damnit, I was really looking forward to that new Celine CD too. Guess I'll have to spend my money on Aphex Twin instead.
They are just punishing you for listening to Celine Dion. YOu deserve it.
The new iMac doesn't have any manual way to do it.
Oh of course. All you have to do is dismantle the computer and void your warranty to get the CD out? Man, some people are just whiners!
mark
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -- Carl Sagan
try this Apple tech info before hitting the panic button...
Seriously, breaking someone's machine intentionally is a bit excessive. Past copy-protection schemes were okay in my book because laymen couldn't get past them and people who bothered/could were in the minority: piracy prevention but without excess. But now the little laymen who don't bother reading the little warning labels are having their iMacs broken? This is affecting the luddites who don't know or care about p2p filesharing and buy all CDs and just assume they'll play in their CD players. Is the industry trying to alienate the people who still trusted it?
Ceci n'est pas une sig
... what the correct way to treat a Celine Dion CD is. Summary of article: a.) Buy black marker b.) paint underside of CD completely black Next up: The correct way to treat your boy group cds. a.) Buy some acetone b.) ...
The soundtrack of Episode 2 seems to be protected in such a way also.
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
I tried to test this Celine Dion CD to see if it would get stuck in my iMac, but then I discovered to my horror that I couldn't get the Starcraft CD out of the drive. Must ... Quit ... Game ... and press ... Eject ... Muscles ... not ... responding...
graspee
P.S. This may have legal implications if my Starcraft CD starts downloading mp3s without my permission. (ha ha. sorry).
Certainly not anyone I know who owns a mac
I hate to stereotype, but at the risk of doing so, I'd wager that Mac users are more likely to listen to Celine Dion than otherwise.
Pooling from all of the computer users I know - if that's any decent demographic - Linux users would most certainly not fall under the Celine Dion fans. Windows users, it seems, tend to be more alternative, pop, rap, ad nauseum. And finally, Mac users are more oldies, soft rock, etc. This of course is NOT any real indication of what people listen to; not science, just my own personal observations generalized.
I've never seen a person sing "My Heart Will Go On" while recompiling their kernel.
-X
If someody were to develop some amazing new casette tape that didn't work on a subset of casette players, that would be okay. If that tape, instead, destroyed the player into which it was inserted by chewing up the playback heads, that would not be okay, even if it came with a label saying, ``Not for use on foo tape decks.''
Celine has done the latter.
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
Ummm... isn't this illegal? If some iMac owner accidently puts one of these CD's in the drive and send the thing to kingdom come, didn't Sony just damage their computer with malicious intent? C'mon, Sony has to know that the CD's are going to do this. Can we say class action lawsuit? What's wrong with playing a cd in your computer? Sure, I've got MP3's, but I also play audio cd's on my laptop, and if my laptop gets busted becase one of these damn cds, then I'd frickin sue Sony and anybody connected to the deal for every dime they've got.
Sony should realize that they're treading on very thin ice here. They need to realize that some people have very sensitive information on their computers, and if it gets f*$&# because of their cd protection scheme.....
Sorry, but these dumb moves just irritate me
-schussat
The hour of noon has passed. Let us go and get some Kentucky Fried Chicken.
No not the fact that the CD can break firmware, but the fact that the firmware can be broken by a CD.
Apple tells how to get the job done in this tech note...not to worry.
while i don't know the details. The article said that the macs had to be sent in for repair which sounds to me to be worse than just a jammed CD.
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
Does this also mean that black markers and Post-It Notes are anti-cirumvention devices that must be banned?
Hello all,
Apple has released KnowledgeBase Article #106882, Cannot Eject Copy Protected Audio Disc , to adress the problem with the cd's getting locked into the drive.
"You may be unable to eject certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not. Some computers start up to a gray screen after a copy protected disc has been left in the computer."
How could a CD screw up the player? All the CDROM does is read bits off of a CD. The data should not be able to alter the program (in this case firmware) at all. The only way i could see something happening is if the firmware was poorly writtian and the CD causes stack overflows.
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
If you hold the mouse button down while turning a Mac on it will eject the CD from the drive before it boots up.
To hardly seize: With a simple felt marker you outwit Sony Music & CO and notice your right to a backup copy.
Take that Sony Music & CO, I hardly seize you with my simple felt marker and notice my right to a backup copy! You have been outwitted!There is something wonderful in seeing a wrong-headed majority assailed by truth. ~John Kenneth Galbraith
You're a tool; how'd you like it if the following took place whilst filling up your car:
"Sure! C'mon, if you put our gas in your car, it's absolutely trivial to drain the fuel system and use non-protected gasoline; you'll just have to get that from...uh...er...somewhere else.
But there's no permanent damage or anything..."
--
I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy
I was also reading on spymac.com that you can get around this with a nikko pen, but what I really want to say is what a precedent this sets for corporations:
We will intentionally cause damage to your property because you did not try to play this in an authorised CD player
I think all those affected now (and more probably in the future with CDs other than Celine) should send a nice happy bill to the corporations that produce these CDs...
Not being a legal person, how can a disclaimer cover something designed to intentionally cripple hardware? Sure you can say in a disclaimer that "it *may* do blah blah blah" but that's a whole lot different to "If you have X this CD is designed to damage this hardware"
... And I also doubt that the disclaimer is in a very prominent position either...
As someone who buys CDs and owns an iBook, I'm not looking forward to the day I pop in a decent CD I've just bought (sorry, Celine fans) I don't want to discover that I can't get the damn thing out of my lappy easily...
-- Dan >:(
We obviously can't call this Celine Dion product a "CD"...We're going to need a new term to denote CD-imposters...Lets see...
CC - Crash Circle
"CD" - Quote-Compact Disk-Unquote
ICD - Imposter Compact Disk
FD - Fool's Disk
ID - Incompatible Disk
SF - Sony Frisbee
CC - Celine Coaster
MW3 - Mommy, Why Won't it Work?
RCD - Record Companies Downfall
18POS - $18 Piece Of Sh*t
SLS - Sony's Last Stand
PD - Poo Disk
Any suggestions?
GL
Where the two Aliens come down and wear a Bob Dole and Bill Clinton outfit and run for presidency.
As I'm sure everyone remembers, the aliens are found out but then say something to the effect of "What are you going to do about it with a two party system." And so they elect one of the aliens...
Moral of the story: If you don't like copy protection, don't buy the damn cds! It's that simply.
int func(int a);
func((b += 3, b));
Go out and buy one of these CDs. Take it into a computer store. Try it out in a computer.
When it gets stuck, try to get help from the sales people, but try to do it with a straight face, OK? Now you will probably have to leave it there, but make sure you talk to the highest up manager before you do.
Research on the internet how to eject the disk and come back the next day to get it.
This might work best if you bought the CD in the same store.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
Is it labled as not playing in a PC? Apparently there should be a disclaimer if it is protected. If you don't see one, maybe there are multiple versions, or the original article is wrong. Maybe only the British version? The site's located in the UK.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
The music publishers are giving people incentives to NOT BUY CDs...
Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com
"MacUser is running an article about how the new Celine Dion CD A New Day Has Come with copy protection mechanisms to prevent the CD from being played on a PC not only won't play on an iMac, but it will lock the CD tray (so it can't be removed) and fubar the firmware (so the machine can't be rebooted), effectivley killing the iMac."
Somewhere a 4th Grade English teacher is crying, and doesn't know why.
It hurts when I pee.
Jesus people....yank the power, plug it back in, and use the dmn open-apple key sequence (can't remember it now...but if you own a Mac you should know) for ejecting the cdrom before it boots.
Take that Sony Music & CO... You have been outwitted!
Make your time!
The CD format is a very well-defined standard, and Apple created a device that works perfectly with it. How is it Apple's fault if a malicious 3rd party intentionally creates a disc that violates the standard?
This space unintentionally left unblank.
Alright, I feel like an idiot because I've posted three replies on this subject now, but after checking amazon.com and amazon.co.uk, it appears that this only applies to the version sold in the UK. So British buyers beware, but the rest of us are okay (though if the Amazonian reviewers are to be trusted, apparently it is a pretty weak effort compared to Williams' prior work).
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
how horrible, dying with Celine Dion in your mouth! *shudder*
HOLLYWOOD, CALIFORNIA - May 13, 2002 - RIAA TEAMS UP WITH MPAA TO URGE BAN OF "SHARPIE" STYLE MARKERS.
Local busineses were shocked today when all 2.5 million office supply stores were simultaneously served with a cease and desist order from the RIAA and MPAA banning the sale of any type of felt tip marker. Lobbyists for the media industry successfully bribed and/or threatened a number of local politician, who in turn passed legislation banning the manufacture, sale, or possession of any device on grounds that it violates the Digital Millenium Copyright Act.
"This is a great day for freedom in this country", stated I. P. Freely, chairman of the House Committee On Media Graft and Campaign Finance. "No longer will reckless hoodlums and terrorist be able to hold our great media industries down! Already these 'media terrorists' have been implicated in causing a downturn in music sales, a deepening of the U.S. recession, balding, impotence, and dandruff. These terrorists are a threat to the very foundation of this nation. Have I said terrorist enough yet? Terrorist terrorist terrorist!"
A small group of bewildered secretaries and office workers were rounded up by jackbooted thugs and herded into "terrorist containment vehicles" (which resemble black vans) as they went into office supply stores in downtown L.A. to buy Sharpies. "Obviously these media terrorists were bent on destroying Sony Music with these devices", said one S.W.A.T. team captain as he twirled a Sharpie in front of cameras. "Don't worry folks", he said, "you're safe now."
When interviewed on the street, many people expressed delight at the actions of the MPAA and RIAA.
"I'm so glad that these hideous terr'rist folks have been rounded up", says Eva Beaver. "Who knows what they might've blown up with their terror weapons. Next it could be planes slamming into buildings!"
Opposition to this new law is expected to be light, say prominent Washington lawmakers. Naysayers will be rounded up and shot on sight, further adding to the desire to keep people from pirating music and movies with felt tip pens.
Spokesmen for Sanford, the company that manufactures the Fully Automatic Terrorist Media Stealing Assault Weapon (formerly known as a Sharpie Marker) could not be reached following a disastrous fire and explosion at every single one of their manufacturing plants.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
My mother bought the new Celine Dion CD (I've been trying to convince her to take it back for not being a "real CD"). I put it in my PC just to test it. The funny think is that the CDROM won't play it as a audio CD. However, I tried cdparanoia and I can rip it without any problem... I guess it's just another case of a "copy-protection" technology prevent legal use (like watching DVD under Linux), while failing at preventing what it's designed to prevent (you can do a mirror copy of a DVD without decrypting it).
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
It's all about the companies getting greedy. Instead of 'losing' a few dollars on the price of each CD, they spend thousands to get the CD 'guarded'. Completely ridiculous, and a result of greed in our society.
Then there's the junk going on about them safeguarding the CD's so they can't be played on a computer. Personally, I'm not the richest person around, and I can't afford a CD player seperate from the computer. I lodged my money into this thing about two years ago, and continue to do so, thinking "Hey, I can play my CD's on here, and write my papers, etc., rather than drive up the electric bill (damned prices last year for electricity...) with two seperate Watt-Guzzelers, as I call them. So, I saved some money there, right?
I ended up buying a few cds the other day, after listening to them on the radio. I pop in the Lord of the Rings OST, remembering fondly the music that scared me in the movie, and waited for it to load. Instead of my lovely music, I get a webpage with a bunch of ads I don't want, and no auto-start on the music. So, naturally, I checked to see if the files were missing or something. Sure enough, they've been 'protected' against use on a computer. So, I wasted $18, and I still haven't listened to the thing once.
Now, they're making the computers crash on us, just for fear of 'stealing' their 'hard earned songs' (even though most of them are just rewrites of old classics). Next thing you know, they'll ban CD-Roms. --;
"Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do."
Apple Knowledge Base article #106882 confirms the problem with "certain copy-protected audio discs, which resemble Compact Discs (CD) but technically are not," and says Apple will not pay for repairs even if you have a service contract.
k ba se.woa/116/wa/query?searchMode=Expert&type=id&val= KC.106882
http://kbase.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/
The note suggests a number of things you can "try" or "attempt" which "may" solve the problem.
The telling part is the last paragraph:
"If a disc with copyrighted protection technology remains inside the drive after following the procedures above, or if the computer does not start up normally, it is recommended that you contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider (AASP) or Apple Technical Support. CD audio discs that incorporate copyright protection technologies do not adhere to published Compact Disc standards. Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. Because the Apple product is functioning correctly according to its design specifications, any fee assessed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for repair service will not be Apple's responsibility."
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Only problem is, your opponent won't have to listen to Celine, thereby conclusively winning the war.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
.....the Celine Dion CDs came with an iTunes upgrade?
How can these idiots somehow assume that everyone has a stereo or some form of computer-independent CD player? You wouldnt believe how small a percentage of my friends actually plays their CDs on a stereo. Why, I once foresaw the death of stereos altogether: Why spend a boatload of cash on a huge machine that can do exactly one thing (play CDs - radio sux, tapes are dead, LPs are deader), when you can do the same with your PC?
Why have a TV/Stereo/DVD/VCR/whatever when you can have it all in your PC?
Ah, wait, if you spend a boatload of cash on huge, clunky, technologically outdated devices such as a TV or a 1x CD player, Big Business is happy. And since the government is just for show and it's actually BB who's running the place, the "consumers" really have no choice - fork over your cash time and time again, or live like a peasant in the Dark Ages, with no comfort at all.
I'm sick of this. Where do I point my gun at to get my God-given rights?
Since they're all trying to label us as terrorists I say shoot the bastards and earn the title!
You need to restart the system and just after the chime, leave the mouse button pressed until the media gets ejected. No manual way but a work around for people who like me got cought with the soundtrack of Episode 2.
PPA, the girl next door
-- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
If it is, then this shall be an article to Philips lawyers. If it isn't the CD isn't even compatible with your stereo CDPlayer.
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
"Then schtick ze blow torchen up your assen-holen, and ge-crank that mutterfikken all ze way uppen-leder-hosen."
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
The music companies are quietly removing the CD logo from some of these controversial copy-protected CD's because they do not conform to the Red Book standard.
So here's a way we can fight back. When you are buying your CD's, always insist on CD's bearing the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo.
This does two things:
* Any copy-protected disc that bears the CD logo may be in technical breach of some law, such as misleading and deceptive marketing, and you can possibly sue the store and record company on those grounds (IANAL) or make a formal complaint to some regulatory body such as the FTC.
* It lets the store know that there are people who prefer genuine CD's instead of that crippled copy-protected rubbish. Once you buy the CD, it's your right to do with it as you please, provided you do not infringe on the copyright owners' rights to redistribute the music.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
Apple knows. You have three non-pull-apart options.
Or perhaps you need beat the living shit out of the fuck-heads who cavalierly take it upon themselves to fuck with your hardware. Then kill their extended families, burn down their houses with their corpses inside, and piss on the ashes.
Or that paper clip thing might work too, I don't know.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
If it isn't a "CD" does this violate the patent on Compact Disks, as it is same technology, just with a few 0s and 1s?
GL
Look, don't play the music industry game. Don't bother to figure out how to defeat the copy protection that just makes them try harder.
Just don't buy the CDs.
Or better yet, buy them, open them, then take them back to the store and complain that they don't work. If the store will only offer an exchange, take the exchange and bring that one back too. Just keep doing this until they learn that they do not work.
The stores can't put them back on the shelves, they have to ship them back to the distributor. I guarantee you when 25% of their stock comes back defective, someone is going to start to notice what a really bad idea this is.
Hmm, I work right next door to a Best Buy. I could buy and return a CD every day for lunch. Might be kind of fun.
Okay, so you have some software which is vulnerable to malformed data which has been fed to it by an unsuspecting user, and it causes damage to your system. Rather than providing fixes, the vendor blames the users and the source of the malformed data. Apple's CD drives have a major security hole. It is being exploited by malicious hackers, who have produced attacks which lure people into subjecting their computers to them by promising to contain music.
Sure, people shouldn't buy these things. Sure, the people who make them should be treated as the computer criminals they are. Sure, Celine Dion should remind people of Melissa. But Apple should really fix these things. Computers that won't work if the CD drive gets messed up? CD drives that trust discs to have valid data, and can be permanently damaged by discs with data errors? I certainly hope their network cards aren't so lousy...
If you are a U.S. resident (you don't have to be a citizen) and want to be part of a class-action lawsuit, go here:
http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.submit.html
after you buy a known corrupt CD (one with a red star next to it):
http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.html
I will personally forward your info to the group of lawfirms who are already planning a class-action against the record industry. If you have any questions about this class-action or anything else, write me at chuck@fatchucks.com.
Peace.
I'm reminded of the old C-64 1541 floppy drive, which could be wrecked by malicious boot-sector code that caused it to ram the head repeatedly against the stop until it misaligned itself. But I thought we were twenty years past such silly hardware and software design.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
I am reminded of my teenage days of punching notches into the side of 5 1/4" disks with a hole punch...
::Colz Grigor
Magic markers to avert copy protection schemes... I love low-tech solutions to high-tech problems.
In A.D. 2002, War was beginning.
Mac Hacker: What happen?
User: Somebody set us up the Celine Dion Not-CD
Programmer: We get signal
Mac Hacker: What!
Programmer: Main Screen turn on
Mac Hacker: It's You!
R.O.S.E.N.: How are you gentlemen?
R.O.S.E.N.: All your CD-ROM drive are belong to us.
R.O.S.E.N.: You are on the way to destruction
Mac Hacker: What you say?!?!
R.O.S.E.N.: You have no chance to hack make your time
R.O.S.E.N.: HA HA HA HA....
Mac Hacker: Take off every Not-CD
Mac Hacker: You know what you doing
Mac Hacker: Remove Not-CD
Mac Hacker: For great justice
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Has anyone who purchased one the the CD's in question contact their local Better Business Bureau? When I buy something that looks like a CD, is sold in the CD isle, I don't expect it to hose my iMac.
Let's get as many agency's in on this as possable.
--T
http://www.theMediaBunker.com
So far the soundtrack to Episode II is being corrupted in Europe:k . tml
http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.starwars.soundtrac
but there have been no reports out of the Ameircas. Of course, time will tell if this holds up.
<SARCASM>
What do you care, unless you're an Evil Hacking Terrorist Content Pirate(tm).
Only Evil Content Pirates want the DMCA overturned. Stinking Terrorist.
</SARCASM>
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
ha ha ha I made a funny
"Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to such standards. Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. "
So not only is the computer broken because you didn't see the fine print and tried to play a cd in it, but you have to pay for the repairs.
but...
If I create something that resembles an email message, but really just uses the email message format to carry a harmful digital payload to damage your system, I'm just an evil hacker who's likely to be spending time in prison.
Yup. Makes sense to me.
A new kind of meat designed to appeal to vegetarians.
I recall something about invalidating the firmware on a floppy drive, in a slightly different manner. I think the trick was to paint the inside of a floppy with nail polish and the powder from inside caps. The drive heats up to read the disk, and in a flash of fire, the floppy drive is no longer functional. Now that's copy protection.
How did they do this, anyway? What is the disk doing. This goes beyond having a Windows autorun file and a bad CD directory.
Slashdot geeks can rant and rave all they want about these horrible booby-trapped 'discs', but the outside world must respond for anything to happen- either endorsing the legitimacy of the 'discs' or rejecting it.
Well, this is a start.
Playing these things on an iMac means basically voiding the warranty. If, God knows how, the corrupted and intentionally damaging 'disc' manages to actually kill the iMac, Apple says it is your fault for trying to put booby-trapped, intentionally destructive junk in the machine!
This is a GOOD thing, and I hope other computer manufacturers do likewise. I wouldn't have believed that such a thing could kill an iMac, but note this: iMacs ARE BOOTABLE FROM CD. It seems possible that these 'discs' could contain something like a boot sector, to trick the machine into trying to boot off the 'disc' and then munging its BIOS. Viruses have been able to do stuff like that for years and years- this is simply the first time the RIAA has made a concerted effort to destroy people's computers.
Apple cannot possibly take responsibility for this. They're doing the right thing- staring in shock, and then quickly announcing, "We will not be held responsible for interoperating with THIS BULLSHIT!"
I say support Apple for this stance, don't criticise them. Or do you feel that computer manufacturers should now be held responsible for maintaining interoperability with VIRUSES?
They are compact discs, but they aren't CDDA (Compact Disc Digital Audio). If you look you will notice most regular audio CD have that logo on there, but ones that violate the Redbook standard aren't allowed to have it.
A music CD with no CDDA logo means:
a)It has copy protection.
b)They put too much music on the disc.
c)It has hidden tracks.
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
Apple knows [apple.com]. You have three non-pull-apart options.
[options deleted]
Well, let's see...
The crud they put on the disk locks up the Apple when you try to play it. Thus...
This is "technology" that "effectively prevents" unauthorized copying.
Breaking your computer is part of the correct operation of this technology, so
Fixing your computer is "circumvention" of "technology" that "effectively prevents" unauthorized copying, a felony under the DMCA, and
Apple's post telling you how to fix your computer is "trafficing" in circumvention technology, also a felony.
Quick! Call the FBI! (And ask Adobe for the phone number of the appropriate person to call. B-) )
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I do have a stereo at home, but not at work...
:-)
...and all the music I buy is only every played at work (or occasionally in my car) - my girlfriend doesn't like my prediliction for Swedish death metal...(fancy that!), but I won't code to anything else
SONY.
Sony, Sony, Sony.
Now do you understand why I fsckn can't stand them????
If there is an Intellectual Property fracas, 9 out of 10 times Sony's right in the middle of it. Burn in Hell, Akio Morita!
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Of course, there are financial concerns inherent in choosing indie music distributors rather than the big record companies with their economies of scale.
In order to be able to play real CDs that are not booby-trapped to destroy your computer... you will have to pay less. :D
But I'm sure we will be understanding if you cannot afford this, and feel you have to pay twice the money to companies who take the money and spend it on ways to make the 'discs' destroy your computer when you attempt to play them. Better the devil you know than the starving, talented, honest and cooperative musician you don't, huh? >;)
Chris Johnson
Too cheap? How about not dumb enough to waste $20 on a piece of hardware that was obsolete 10 years ago. If you want to take files with you to somewhere with no net connection, burn a CD. They're more durable, and it's faster then writing to a floppy anyway. Now if only PC vendors would stop including them so we could be rid of the things.
Except Apple didn't design the drive. They didn't build it either. And the problem is with the drive's firmware, so it's nothing to do with Apple's device drivers.
If you had bought the same drive for a PC then it would do exactly the same thing.
Are we to understand that post-it notes and sharpie pens are now contraband circumvention devices? 3M is not going to like this, not one bit.
You know, that just might be the ticket. Is there a way to tell a District Attourney that he should bring suit against somebody for illegal activity? Tip off the DA that 3M is marketting items which may be used as circumvention devices.
3M will bring in their lawerly guns blazing, and will throw lots of corporate resources at smacking on DMCA; we get our precident by making big business do our fighting for us.
Can something like this work this way?
(As a manufacturer of floppy disks, e.g., media which would be forced to have circumvention protection systems built in if CDTBPA (Is that the right 'nym?), etc, are passed, I'm sure that 3M is interested in getting rid of these laws...)
Since when is it Apple's responsibility to sue them? Apple needs to make its iMacs bootable from CD-Rom. The CD has a functional purpose in the machine, it can't just be a music sandbox. I'd say, leave the iMacs unmolested unless you are proceeding to undertake a demonstration in court. But... proceed to undertake a demonstration in court. Class action under 'anti-hacker' statutes to prove that the (wealthy) record company is intentionally sabotaging people's property on a MASSIVE SCALE.
I could be wrong, but I think that the imac cd drive violates the orange book standard. I'm pretty sure that all CD-rom drives must have a manual eject button.
Don't even get me started on how they don't include a punch-card reader, and it doesn't have a single vacuum tube!
"I have fallen off the wagon, for I am a slave to tea."
- They find the line distant up to two centimeters from the outside edge. Draw now with the pin a tangential line, which covers the dividing line accurately, into which outside range project, but does not affect the last audio TRACK. A sticking tire helps as ruler.
I followed these directions and my Celine Dion disk is now stuck in a tire heading east on I-10 at about 75 mph. I feel better already.Try the result out. If it did not fold, the line covers either the dividing line not completely or lies over the last audio trace - here geht's around tenths of a millimeter. Then you wipe away to the pro copying bars with a damp speed and correct after.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
>I'm reminded of the old C-64 1541 floppy drive, which could be wrecked by malicious boot-sector code that caused it to ram the head repeatedly against the stop until it misaligned itself...
;-) which was reprogrammable by the computer. Of course, in this case you had to choose to run the program -- the 1541 didn't automatically boot your disks for you.
Most of the misalignments were done by the copy protection code loaded onto the drive itself. The constant realignments to get the drive a 1/2 sector off (or so I recall reading as such) to get at the protected data were really nasty on the drive [feel free to correct me on that]. That's when you heard that clattering noise coming from your drive when playing the "original" disks (it was more than just "fastloader" code). This was just part of the reason people (at the time) legitimately autohacked their originals with hack-'em fast parameter files (among other utilities). Without using copy protected disks your drive would last longer.
My personal favourite were the disks that slammed the head hard enough that you could feel it through the desk.
Of course, this was all so easily possible because the 1541 disk drive had its own CPU (ever had your PC disk drive return an easter egg string before?
As usual, history repeats itself. In another 5-10 years we'll probably be past all this copy protection (again) once the copy protection industries realise the truth (again): Copy protection increases copying.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
... to prevent them being sued to hell and back? If that happened to me i would sure take it out of their hide and rise a big fuss about it too. Especially in the US of A, where McDonalds has to print "Dangerous: hot beverage" or somesuch on their coffe cups, i'd expect they'll have to make the warning stickers larger than the CD-cover.
...) i'd relly like to see the creators of that copyprotection bleed over this. Also i think this should make for a really nasty press story: before it was just some abstract copyprotection that would make one or the other CD not play, but now it's about destroying ones propertywhen attempting to play the CD.
Maybe someone can think of a way to make them pay really large for damages (put some important documents on that iMac, claim it was the only copy, and you needed it just that day
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Post-It notes use a patented adhesive. The DMCA specifies a "technological method" of circumvention, soooo... Sure ! What the heck. Makes as much sense as a lot of the recent IP rulings.
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
I mean, they can be used as circumvention devices to copy protected digital content, so the DMCA should apply, no?
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Afraid, are you?
It's days like this that I look around my room and smile, knowing that I haven't bought a CD in months, rather the room is ever so slowly filling with vinyl. yep. Good old 12" singles. Sometimes I'm glad that I'm not a slave to (North American) popularity and prefer some good old-fashioned techno which comes on non-copy-protectable slabs of black plastic.
.But the day they take that away. . .
. .
And the internet radio thing is another story altogether. Anyone who reads this and happens to be in the US (I have no "representative" to write to) write your representative and get Certain legeslation rejected. Please?
- Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
Why go to all the trouble of going out, buying a CD (Celine Dion *shudder*), and putting it in my iMac? I might as well walk over to my desk, get some glue, and pour it in there :D. It'll do just the same thing, be cheaper for me, PLUS I'm sure that I will get some nice sound effects/smells being produced :D.
Seriously, though, why does Sony have to be doing this? How can we send them some sort of message that they are screwing themselves over by doing this?
And so we go, on with our lives
We know the truth, but prefer lies
Lies are simple, simple is bliss
I mean, specifically, what i really, really want to do is this: go down to Wherehouse music tomorrow and buy the Celene Dion CD, come back home, put the CD in my quicksilver g4 and fubar it.. then go back to Wherehouse carrying the g4, and whine and panic that their cd broke my computer.. and then whomp the empty cd case and the fubared g4 on their customer service counter and demand that they accept the return. And that they get their merchandise out of my computer.
Wouldn't it be great to see the looks on their faces???
Then I could do it at Sam Goody the next day.
Of course, *i* know that it's easy to solve, and that all you have to do is start up the macintosh with the mouse button held down, and it will eject the cd and you can get on with their life. And i *could* just do that for them. But hey, they broke it. Let them fix it
There will be thousands of clueless newbies who will buy that cd and break their computers with it, and *THEY* will be totally unable to do anything about it (since Apple won't provide phone support AT ALL unless you pay them lots of money, and so the only way to find out about the magic mouse button eject thing is to read the document on Apple's website that explains what to do.. and *how do you read Apple's website if your Macintosh is broken*?).. so.
If Wherehouse music is going to be selling this CD to people whose computers will break as a result, and Wherehouse music isn't going to be there to help explain to them how to restore their imacs to working order.. why should i explain to Wherehouse music how to restore my mac to working order when it's sitting on their counter in front of an underpaid clerk while i hold up the line?? ^_^ I have this vision of this happening all over the country, hundreds of secretly-clued-in mac owners sabotaging their machines and then going back to make music stores actually deal with the fallout of what they've done, instead of making the consumer deal with the fallout.. but of course that won't happen. Of course i won't even get around to doing it myself, because i don't get around to finishing things often and i fucking hate Celene Dion. But it's fun to think about
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Yeah, it's a shame about that punch card reader, but the monitor CRT is one big old vacuum tube.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Done.
That's Herr Yoda to you and me...
What's my Karma Mr. Burns? "Excellent"
The CD could not "fubar the firmware." However, it could bring out a bug in that firmware that leads to its own state of fubar.
I hate copyprotected CDs. But the fubar'ed iMac CD drive firmware needs to be addressed by Apple.
USNG: 14TPU4605
Every time you listen to a copy-protected CD...
Celine Dion kills an iMac.
Please, think of the iMacs.
Think about this for a moment -- on the one hand we have Sony (and other recording companies) telling us that we shouldn't be copying music and burning CDRs.
On the other hand, Sony are more than happy to take our money when we buy one of their CDR/RW drives, their CDR/RW media and their various audio recording products.
Should they sue themselves under the DMCA I wonder?
Or are they just so stupid that they're hoping nobody will notice this crazy situation?
Apple really isn't to blame, except maybe for buying drives with poorly written firmware.
The drive manufacturer is at fault here--it should not be possible to cause damage by inserting a disk in the drive. Really, the copy protection is only a disk that is corrupted in a specific way--the drive should have been designed to fail gracefully if the disk is corrupted.
I see many conflicts of interest here...
First of all, Sony begins using this copy-protection scheme by forcing it's children-companies to begin putting it on their "CD"s. This is apparently an attempt to prevent ripping of said "CD" tracks into MP3 or other digital media files. On the other hand, Sony is one of the larger companies who are currently making hardware to play "legitimate" MP3s, such as the Sony MP505 mini-disc MP3 players, and others.
Now, how does one go about using their Sony MP505 to play MP3s from their new Sony-parented "CD"? I mean, I understand that the MP3 players are just to jump into a market where money is to be had, but still, this seems like a case of one hand not knowing what the other is doing.
First of all, as has been stated many-a-time, the patent holder of TRUE CDs should sue the pants off of companies that are creating discs that do not conform to standards, but still market them as CDs. Perhaps the official CD logo is not there on many of these CDs, but do the record labels make any statement that these are not truly Compact Discs?
What other devices might these not work in? Some items made for the computer-oriented user that has a more CD-ROM style interface than a standard CD interface? What about MP3 players that use CD media to play MP3s, but also can play audio CDs? What about a device like my Apex AD-3201. that uses a very standard DVD-ROM drive attached via an ATAPI interface to a decoder? If not these discs, will others that are soon to follow cause problems here as well?
Perhaps I am not technically inclined enough with color book standards to understand what causes the current problems in iMacs, and why there may not be other problems here and there... but I know enough to be mildly concerned about this.
If someday I purchase Star Wars Episode II on DVD and pop it into my Apex (with region encoding and Macrovision turned off), and my DVD and mainboard firmware become damaged... I'm going to be particularly upset.
Does anyone have a webpage up yet that lists not only known discs with this protection, but also known devices, SPECIFICALLY, which will fail and how? Just curious if maybe the full impact has not yet been felt or noticed.
-Xepherys
Peck them to death!
Everybody should just take Sony to small claims court!
Bring your fucked-up iMac -- or buy an iMac and have it fucked up by Sony first -- and bring the iMac to small claims court, asking for Sony to fix your iMac.
If everybody did this, what would Sony do? Deploy a lawyer to every one-horse town in America defending these claims?
If they did, the cost would be exorbitant beyond belief! If they didn't, the cost would be exorbitant beyond belief!
Think small beaks. Biting hard. Lots of them.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
All these three options require rebooting. However, the original post said that this CD by artist of little talent makes your computer unable to reboot!?!?!?!
The MacUser UK article that inspired this thread is simply terrible. And yeah, it said that the CDs in question would leave the Mac unable to boot. But what was meant was that the Mac would be unable to boot all the way up to multiuser mode successfully.
In order to force-eject the CD-- using two out of the three methods, that is-- you only have to get the Mac up to Open Firmware. That's all in hardware, so the presence of a bad disc won't affect it.
Seems like most people don't even know that they've got a really sophisticated boot PROM underneath their Macs. Hold down cmd-opt-O-F (that's "oh" and "eff") right after powering on some time to see how it all works.
Congradulations! Thanks to the DMCA, we can now shut down all the felt tip marker makers, and 3M for making Post-it-Notes because they are devices capable of circumventing copy protection!
WireHead
The previous message was created with 100% recycled words.
I thought you americans would always sue everyone over pretty much everything - so where's the lawsuit? I'm fairly sure that over here in europe, where we still have some consumer protection laws, this CD would violate at least half of them (let's see - misleading advertisement, sale of known defective stuff, intent to damage private property...)
A class-action lawsuit (not possible in europe) could make you rich. Just claim the total sales volume of iMacs as the damage and sue on behalf of all iMac owners (it may or may not help to be one).
More seriously, why isn't there a lawsuit? Are corporations the only ones with a license to abuse the courts?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
This sounds like great fun in places that sell macs and CDs. Just sneak a celene dion disk from the music section over the the computer section and drop it in a new imac. Not that i condone evil acts like this, i'm just saying it sounds fun.
BTW- if you are opening CDs in a store and don't intend to buy them, leave the sticker seal on the top edge and just unhinge the jewel case to get the CD out. That way you can put them back still 'sealed.'
I just had another thought- if i did a bit-for-bit copy of the malicious part of the cd and then distributed that to mess up cd drives, would i be a malicious hacker?
Celine Dion fans would most probably be people who don't care (or know) what their computer runs; which means mostly Windows users.
Since Windows is the default OS, Windows users' tastes would be (on average) more mainstream than fringe users. Mac users would probably have more piercings/tattoos than the average person and would be likely to listen to eclectic bands most people have never heard of.
I have a Quadra 610 that gets fired up occasionally (currently loaded with MacOS 7.5.3 and NetBSD), as well as a bunch of Apple IIs...that makes me more of an old-school Apple user than most Mac-heads. My automotive preferences lean more toward GM than Volvo (have an '02 S10 and a '77 Cutlass Supreme), and Satan will be engaged in snowball fights before I'd even consider voting for a Democrat. (I usually vote Republican, but I've occasionally thrown my vote to a third-party candidate if the putative GOP candidate was really just a RINO—a Republican In Name Only.)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
All your CD are belong to us...
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
With all this talk about how these CD's are not "CD"'s, it strikes me that a store selling them couldn't properly call itself a "CD" store. I think, perhaps retailers should separate these from the other, proper, CDDA discs.
A warning on the packaging and on the disc itself is insufficient for two reasons that I can see: 1) It would NEVER occur to the average consumer (who's only just figured out that thing isn't a cup-holder) that not only is a CD not a CD, but that it could 'break' their computer. Yes, I've seen the explanations that the hardware isn't really broken, but we ALL know that the average user isn't technically aware, and things must be kept VERY simple.
Reason #2) The packaging is not always available. I just hopped over to CDNOW, and there is NO MENTION WHATSOEVER on the page to indicate this is not a CDDA disc. It is listed in two formats: CD and Tape (and the CD is still more expensive than cassette, go figure)
Knowing that retailers are extremely unlikely to provide this service any time soon, may I humbly propose we create a CDNOT.com to catalog all these unplayable discs, and make a plugin available that will warn you, should you attempt to purchase one?
These people looked deep into my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined.
A friend of mine bought that CD. It plays (and rips) fine in my computer -- even on Window Media Player, for pete's sake -- except for the last track, which won't rip or play. I dunno how effective you call that...
The drive isn't failing. It's doing what it's suposed to do. It's reading the equivalent of the boot sector of the CD, and attempting to boot the software on the CD. The software on the CD is then doing deliberately malicious things to the computer. Any computer that's capable of booting or automatically running software from any media is vulnerable to attack from what is in effect a boot sector virus.
It does seem to me that Sony are sailing very close to some legal winds here. It would not seem to me to be so much a problem if the automatic-load-and-go program opened a window on the Mac screen saying 'this disc cannot be played on Macintosh computers', but this deliberate malicious damage seems to me quite serious.
Mind you, it's arguable that anyone who buys a Celine Dion record deserves all they get...
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
In your case, I'd say the drive that burned your CD-R is at fault. Saying that Apple is at fault because these "CDs" can ruin the drives is just ludicrous. It would be like me saying that Nissan is at fault because when I put a new synthetic oil in my car, it ruined the engine. Just as my beef in that case would have to be with the oil maker and not Nissan, if I had a drive toasted by one of these discs, my problem would be with the disc's manufacturer, not with Apple. It is likewise absurd that Apple should just fix the machines and then turn around and try to bill Sony or whoever. Just the logistics in doing that correctly would be hideous, let alone trying to collect any actual money from the disc manufacturers. In the end, it sucks for the users, but the manufacturers of the discs are the ones to blame, not Apple.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
I don't think they'd risk not labeling it in the UK - there was a huge stink when they last tried copy protection because the shops had to bear the wrath of angry customers who couldn't play their CDs - the entire lot was taken off the shelves a few days later, to be replaced by non-copy protected versions.
I'd expect any cactused CD to have a huge sticker on it with 'Will not play on PC CD, Will not play on Cheap CD Player, Might not play on anything else, either... avoid.'
Apple are *not* responsible. The CD producers are.
I'd suggest making a claim in the small claims court against the retailer. Apple have supplied the basic evidence you need. If you keep the claim relatively low, repair costs plus *minimal* damage for your time/distress and below the cost of a lawyer for the day, they will not even defend it. You get an automatic win.
Targeting the retailer also applies strong market pressure not to stock the CD.
Lol, its a good thing that these would still be illigal without the proper labeling.
Theres a rule, that i think you learn in business school, its pretty important and goes something like "don't piss off your customers in any way unless you have a damn good marketing spin campagne to fool the suckers into coming back"
I don't care, i have never bought a CD in my life and im not about to start. Why bother paying for something when you can download it or rip other peoples? no its not fair to the record companys but then, life is not fair. People screw me around all the time, and you know what? i couldn't give the slightest crap weather all the major record labels' bosses dropped dead or a plane load of bad artists was smashed into their studios. lol we will probably see activists running around stores spray painting all the protected CDs.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Knowing that retailers are extremely unlikely to provide this service any time soon, may I humbly propose we create a CDNOT.com to catalog all these unplayable discs, and make a plugin available that will warn you, should you attempt to purchase one?
I know this may be stating the obvious (since this link has been made available on Slashdot many times) but there is a site that is taking on the (unfortunately) increasing task of cataloguing all "copy-protected" CDs. It's called Fat Chuck's and it not only lists "copy-protected CDs" in various regions but also, among other things, gives help to indie artists and gives a list of banned books throughout the world. You can also submit errors and comments on "copy-protected CDs".
If you find one in a store, excercise your customer (I hate the word consumer, it reinforces this cattle mentality corporations have about us citizens) rights and take it back, clear and simple. What they sold you is not a CD, according to the Red/Blue Book specifications and you have a right to return the product for exchange or refund unless the store specifically says otherwise. And I damn well hope somebody takes legal action because if this latest news is any indication, the record companies are not only selling you products that won't work in your equipment (ie. play and rip) but will actually intentionally damage your equipment (ie. fucking up firmware and forcing reboots, causing potential loss of data). I'm just so sick of this shit.
----------
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer our friend.
I think Apple should sue the "CD" makers for creating intentionally destructive devices intended to cause support costs (angry customers, phone support, returns), remarkably similar to real CDs. Overestimate some FUD noumbers, particularly for unsatisfied customers, say X% of customers scared away x X$ average sales pr. customer (which is almost impossible to determine anyway) and you'll see some nice multi-million figures. Even RIAA don't like to take on big companies.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Apple didn't design the drive. They didn't build it either. But they selected it.
"Physically compatible"
So If I take a bunch of C4 explosive, press it down into a CD shape and put it in then it should still be okay, EVEN if I put a small detonator in that is kicked off by exposure to the light in the CD laser.
Repeat for fragile glass, cookie dough etc etc...
The "thing" that is put in is not a CD as the manufacturers of it have not obeyed the first thing in the spec.... compatibility.
If you wire your Motherboard directly to the mains and it gets fried then you are a fool, if you get supplied with a PC without a transform its the producer of the PC not the motherboard that you should blame.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Wow, with all this copy protection in the CD now it is almost worth the $18 now! I guess they are just trying to make CDs more expensive to make so they can justify the price!
Good for them.....I am glad they are finally getting the price more inline with the actual costs!
Cheers
... to tell me, please, whether writing on a copy protected CD with a black marker really works? My God, one of the main points of this story has hardly been addressed, except to make jokes about banning post it notes and markers. I guess people are too busy flaming record companies and Apple to address something constructive.
I'm sorry, but people are posting a lot of drivel here and I'm getting tired of it. Mod me into oblivion for saying this, but one of the main points of this story remains unexamined.
What's up with that?
Ok, I admit I have a stereo receiver, and am looking to get either a large projection TV or a projector, and a VCR to tune TV and play tapes. Everything else I do through the computer connected through the stereo. Progressive scan DVD playback, CD playback, but more frequently rip the cds to disk so I can have instant access to all tracks on all CDs without suffering the wait of a CD changer to change discs, and without having to worry about the crap tracks. So the "typical parts" include stereo, because it sounds so damn good, TV, though not really typical, since I plan on getting something that takes XGA input from a computer, and a VCR, because TV tuner through computer through TV looks like crap and I need something to play all those damn tapes. When I can get away with it, the computer offers great quality and flexibility. I don't feel like having my rig castrated just because the RIAA/MPAA is afraid I *could* do something bad with it. Hell, I *have* to use linux in my rig because some of my non-CSS, non-Region coded discs refuse to play under any of my Windows applications, so I have to use illegal software to
have my rig work right (technically I could avoid the CSS bits and boot between Windows and linux, but that is too much to expect).
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Then how do you know you don't like her, other than other people are telling you it is not cool to like her?
Charlie Parker sometimes listened to country music on the jukebox and apparently enjoyed it even though today many of his jaz snob fans wouldn't be caught dead listening to it. Being caught is the operative phrase.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Apple computers are not designed to support copyright protected media that do not conform to such standards. Therefore, any attempt to use non standard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's One-Year Limited Warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other AppleCare agreement any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage. Because the Apple product is functioning correctly according to its design specifications, any fee assessed by an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for repair service will not be Apple's responsibility.
science is a religion
Right cause sexual preference has such a bering on which computer you choose.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Generaly speaking, if you toss a CD into your CD ROM drive and it isn't a mac readable CD. One of two things happens:
a) The computer assumes there's no CD and merily goes on it's way, and will eject the tray next time you push the eject button.
b) The computer locks up in a continuous cycle to try and read the CD. It knows something is there, and will continue to try and read it. The CD will not mount and no matter how often you push the button, the CD will not eject. The solution to this is to restart and remove the CD during the start-up process.
If this thing is fsking with the firmware (of either the CD ROM or the Computer) we have a serious problem here. That's the equivilent of putting a tape in your VCR and having the VCR catch fire. That's not cool and if it can be proven to be intentional is also ilegal.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
>voltage to your motherboard through the (onboard) video.
Years ago, the TRS-80 (later dubbed Model 1) used three identical connectors (DIN?) on the back. I knew someone who toasted his when reaching behind to plug it together. It never *occurred* to an engineer that anyone would use the same connector like that, and he plugged the power supply to the monitor output . .
hawk
I am not 100% certain, but I could swear that all macs including the iMac have a hole for the paperclip on them. Perhaps you aren't looking carefuly enough.
In either case, to reboot a mac (or any computer) , even if the whole system is locked, you simply remove the power and plug it back in. Turn it on and poof! Problem solved. Getting the CD out is as simple as holding down the mouse button, or doing any of the steps listed by the poster above.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Isn't that in one of those American Express commercials?
:)
hawk
A better solution would be to make the case into a Scroll of Punishment--hopefully the steel ball will slow the tasteless buyer enough on the way to the player that he'll have time to reconsider and never put it in
hawk, who also understands that opening a Merle Haggard CD should be a Blessed Scroll of Remove Curse . . .
Back in the old days, any Apple user I knew would beat you up for calling their machine a "PC".
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I said:
The hold-down-the-button trick is very well known among Mac users, and all three of them are documented thoroughly.
He said:
So, basically you're saying that all 3 mac users are well documented?
Heh. Guess I deserved that for posting while under the influence of sleepy. I hereby deduct one grammar point from my permanent record.
If it's a CD, then you're supposed to find it from a store under the label "audio CDs", if it's not, then is the store owner liable for selling dynamites that look like a cigars from the cigar stand?
Like I said to JoeSchmoe, please don't use the word "liable" in this context. It implies a specific level of legal responsibility that just doesn't apply here.
If you buy a CD and it doesn't play, take it back to the store. If the store won't accept the return, sell the CD at a used record store to recoup some of your expense, then find a new place to buy CDs.
This same algorithm applies in cases where you might buy one of these pseudo-CDs.
In fact, if you really feel like spending a little time and money to vote against these things, you should go to a record store and buy a copy of one of them. Take it home and open it. Stare at it for a while. Heck, you can even try to listen to it, just don't use a computer to do it. Then haul the disc and your receipt back to the store and-- politely, politely!-- ask for your money back.
If the average CD run has one defect in 10,000 discs (a totally made-up number) but these CDs all have rates of return greatly in excess of that, somebody will get the message. I hope.
Hmmm.
If the retailer told you it was a CD, then maybe. If they told you it would play on your stereo, then maybe. If they called themselves a CD shop, and didn't have any actual CDs, then maybe.
But most retailers I know of are "music stores." Most staff would shrug and go "I dunno" if you asked them if it followed red-book specs. The retailer should have a MORAL responsibility, but they almost definitely don't have a LEGAL one. They'd have to work pretty hard to explicitly mislead their customers far enough to get in any trouble.
There's an interesting articleon C|NET about whether Apple should be responsible or liable. The answer is pretty clear: Should they be liable if you put a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in your CD tray? Well then, why should they be responsible if you put one of these things in?
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
I agree! Apple is doing the right thing by not covering this.
I'd love to see Apple take it a step further and begin posting large warnings in their stores and on their website warning their potential customers. Now, that would piss off the RIAA, wouldn't it?
CDnow lists A New Day Has Come as a CD. Since it's not actually a CD, isn't this misleading? If Philips informed them that it's not a CD, and they kept misusing the term, wouldn't that be fraud?
I generally feal guilty about grabbing mp3s where I haven't bought the disk. But even a goody-two shoes like me doesn't feel guilty about copying a disk with this dumb copy-protection stuff. I figure that if I wanted the music enough to buy it the CD, I still couldn't because it won't work with my OS (linux).
And since then my music has been limited to what discs have been copy-protected. I hate country, so Charlie Pride wasn't anything I was interested. Boy bands are a similair story.
But NOW I CAN STEAL CELINE DION! And, if other posters are correct, then I can steal the Ep2 soundtrack without feeling guilty!!!
Things are looking better all the time!
Free unix account: freeshell.org
WASHINGTON, D.C. - May 14, 2002 - DEA BUSTS SUSPECTED SHARPIE HOARDING OPERATION
DEA spokesman Captain L. I. Bee released information today of a successful "sting" operation where thousands of Fully Automatic Terrorist Media Stealing Assault Weapons (formerly known as Sharpie markers) were being rebranded and sold as hallucinogenic inhalants.
"It was shocking", said Captain L. I. Bee. "Everywhere, on shelves, in boxes, were hundreds, perhaps thousands of these insidious devices. While our friends and colleagues in the media industries are joining hands to stamp out media terrorism, the DEA will not be standing by the wayside in this matter. We have classified Sharpies as a controlled substance and, with time, we expect a mandatory death sentence for anyone caught making, selling, or posessing any such device."
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
>it's arguable that anyone who buys a Celine Dion record deserves all they get...
Ok, but I can envision many scenarios where a person with otherwise good taste can find himself in the position of using a publication in the course of work or research that he might not use for entertainment. Say I'm working on my masters' and researching the irish whistle and uileann pipe in lat 20th century popular music. Guess what artist had material with such a complement? So there is a way I could be directly affected without even being a fan of the music.
How about this: A youth puts this disc in a public (or school) library's Mac. The computer "breaks." The librarian, who is half gator, has the visitor banned, labeled as a 'hacker', expelled from school, prosecuted under some 'for the children' statute, and nobody but slashdot readers ever considers that it
s SONY who should be punished.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
It's extremely stupid that Windows tries to read your disks when they are removed. It has irritated me often. MacOS handles that much better by actually removing open windows/drives when you eject a storage device. That isn't possible with a hardware-controlled eject. Learning to reboot with the mouse-button down isn't that hard in those rare cases that a CD won't eject.
PS. What does the key sequence for booting have to do with this (pressing 'c' on my 1997 G3)?
The Drowned and the Saved - Primo Levi
From Apple's Knowledgebase Article regarding this it implies that this product (and a couple of others) fall into that category of disks that do not qualify for the CD logo. Therefore they are not CDs.
However, stores are marketing this as if it were a CD:
* CDNow lists it as a "CD"
* Amazon lists the media type as "Audio CD"
* CD Universe lists it as a "CD"
If you have purcased a copy protected disk without the CD logo, and it was marketed as an actual CD, you do have grounds to return the disk. Even more so if you got it online and had no opportunity to examine the logo and see warning labels on the disk. If they give you any problems, report them to the Better Business Bureau and/or your state's Attorney General.
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Open mind, insert foot.
Interestingly, here is what CNN and Apple have to say about it.