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Migrating Your Office from Windows to Linux?
bastiji asks: "I work at a mid-sized company, around 50 people and 90% M$ shop (10% being the Sun server doing our backups). Most of my users are using Office 85% of the time with some specialized apps thrown in for good measure. With the upcoming licensing changes from M$ my finance guys are worried about increased spending on even the software that we already own. I've been to told to look for alternatives and I'm asking for your help. How does one begin to do migration from a totally dependent M$ shop to the least expensive options. Are there any examples for mid-sized firms taking this route and any public examples of cost-savings?"
I expect that like Linux at ISPs this is sneaking up on everyone, but may be difficult to find companies publicly willing to risk Microsoft wrath by being open about it.
________________________________________ History Must Not Fall Into The Wrong Hands ___________________________________
Give the techies the linux boxes and the business guys keep windows. Always keep window's boxes, cause customers will always send documents and reports in some microsoft format, so make it available.
Plus, changing business guys over to linux is no easy task.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Standard functionality ( such as office, email ) you can do, but trying to find a replacement for something 'specilaized' wont be easy.. and forget wine running something 'wierd' ( at least today ).
Perhaps use linux on desktop + metaframe
( plugin for citrix works great on linux ) for those apps you just *cant* replace...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Paper, pencils, crayons for those dazzling multi-color pie charts, in/out trays, and paper clips. No licensing fees, no support needs, no viruses. What could be better?
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Don't upgrade. Office 97/2000 will work fine for the next few years. At that time, your financial circumstances may be different or Linux may have even closed the gap some more making it a more viable alternative. Who knows, maybe a miracle will happen and M$ will develop Office for Linux (who's laughing now?)
I'd suggest having the users (or leads or whatever) try the windows version of star office. Make sure they can do what they need to do, before you switch them. Otherwise you'll be forced to switch back, and they'll have a negative view of Linux.
:)
Also make a list (you can't plan something like this too much) of all the apps they're using, and what features they're using, and make sure you can provide all of those features before you switch.
And put lots of pictures of Tux around the place. His cute smile will calm everyone's fears.
I have been Running Open Office for several weeks now and am very happy.. It does a great job of opening most MS files.. It includes all the basic tools you need.. Word Processor, Spreadsheet and Presentation software.. I would probably recommend you stay on windows for your OS.. Sure Linux is FREE but it will only compound the learning curve of your users.. (Don't flame me, I Love Linux but for typical windows users its too much too fast.) I would also recommend you have at leaset one current copy of MS office incase Open Office can not open or convert an important document. If you use alot of Macros in any of your office documents you will probably have to redo them in Open Office..
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
Have your finance people taken into account that the majority of the employees know Microsoft products fairly well and would have to be retrained for such a migration. The problem getting Linux or other OSS into the office isn't cost or a technical issue. Its a people issue, plain and simple people know MS Products, they've been using them for years. A move to a completely different operating system and business suit will leave the employees feeling abandoned and useless and will more than likely hurt productivity.
Something to consider. This is probably the biggest reason that OSS has had such a hard time infiltrating the office.
scott
Are you looking to get away from M$ entirely, or just Office because of its hideous licensing scheme?
You're in for a real treat if you're going to try and get an alternative OS going in an environment that's not filled with techies....most of these people took years just to "learn" Windows, Linux (or whatever) is going to be a nightmare for them.
Maybe you should just look into a different office suite.
As a side note, it really bites my ass that M$ is trying to leverage companies into paying more money because of the fear of having to switch to new apps that possibly might be incompatible with other companies' documents. Yet another reason proprietary technology sucks. There needs to be an industry-wide switch to open document formats....RTF and whatever the spreadsheet and presentation software equivalents might be.
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If I were doing this I would create a "I want that" sort of environment. What I mean is pick a Linux distro that has a lot of eye candy and cool features, ala SuSE or Mandrake, and give it to some of your more advanced users, those willing to experiment a little bit. Let them play around with it, and give them some freedom to customize as much as they want. Once they start to really make the GUI look nice, and playing with some of the stuff that is just not available with out of the box Windows/Office they will start to attract other users. Have them tell the rest of the staff that this is the "future" and they are beta testing for the optimal environment. It wouldn't hurt if you got them new machine, or monitors, give a users some incentive to learn and use Linux.
With KDE 3 it's really not that hard to learn the OS, how many Windows users use a CMD shell, the same will be true for the average run of the mill Linux user if the GUI is setup right. I have been using KDE3 for a while now and it is at least as easy if not easier than Windows to do just about anything.
If you allow fairly unrestricted Internet access I would make sure that all of the multimedia apps are working correctly, and that flash is working as well. These are big things for the weenies, they want the bells and whistles that Windows provides, and with a good distro they're all there, but they may need some tweaking to get them running flawlessly.
Just my $0.02, but that is what I would do.
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
Plan a slow transition. Microsoft is going to hit you with a deadline to buy into their subscription system. The deadline is that if you don't buy in by then, you have to pay full price for upgrades in the future. But you can ignore that since you'll be transitioning away from Microsoft instead of upgrading.
If you're lucky, your custom apps will run with Wine or can even be compiled with winelib to be native on Linux, even if they are a pain to port to real Linux apps.
If you find you can't effectively transition your apps, you can stick with Windows, but drop Office in favor of Star/Open Office. Even if you get stuck paying more for OS licensing, you'll save a huge bundle on the other licenses. If you do that, just be sure you're very careful with not letting unlicensed copies of MS Office onto your systems, or you'll be in big trouble if a BSA audit comes along.
The company I work for will be converting the entire backend to Sun Microsystems machines. While working with the Sun engineers I asked about alternatives to M$ as well, and it turns out that moving off M$ to a Sun thin client was easier than I had expected. We have 110 users and may look at using the Sun iplanet app server to administer our in house apps through an intranet portal to the desktop.
The sum of our knowledge today becomes the reference point of our ignorance tomorrow.
In my experience, it's best to replace your servers with Linux, particularly because end-users tend to be more resistant to change concerning their day-to-day activities. If you're using Windows NT for file and print sharing, then you can easily replace those with Linux and Samba. The user's won't care what the server OS is so long as they have access to their files and printers. Most of your cash outflow can be stopped here. Of course, if you have specialized apps that require MS software (ASP scripts), then you'll need to maintain those, but for pure file and print sharing, you can easily go the Linux/Samba route.
For internet services, you're set. Linux can do everything Windows can and more. For SQL services, you can migrate data from MS SQL to any myriad of free SQL servers available from Linux. Just make sure that your SQL statements are ANSI compliant.
You'll just have to handle these on a case-by-case basis.
For the end users, consider OpenOffice as a replacement for MS Office. There are plenty of good browsers for Linux (Mozilla and Opera) that can replace IE. Eventually, you can get users used to using Linux with KDE/GNOME and still give them the functionality they need.
One caveat: in my experience, leave the accountants alone. They tend to be moody, set in their ways, and can become quite a strain on your happiness if you try to mess with their routines.
The only thing I can offer you advice on are your custom apps. For those you can either just live with the fact that you need MS for them, try to find Open Source alternatives, or if written in-house, consider porting.
I hope this helps you a tiny bit. Best of luck!
you don't have to outrun the bear, just the slowest person in your group.
I would suggest that you proceed slowly. Linux doesn't have the mature GUI that Windows offers and it takes some getting used to. Most non-technical people are inherently disturbed by change - they fear change. My current employer is considering this. We have organized groups by job function. The admin assistants will be going first since word processing, email, etc. are fairly robust for Linux. I suggest that you look at Ximian.com and their Evolution product, namely for the email client. I also suggest AbiWord as a good "Word" replacement. The whole office suite is relatively simple to replace.
Our developers and IT staff, which make a large part of our company, are having difficulty since we use many of those "specalized applications" that you were referring to. We have had some luck with WINE. You might also want to check out Lindows. VMWare is another option, but that still requires a Windows license - however - it wil allow you to run what just became your legacy apps until you can migrate off them as well.
HDGary secures my bank
... is the hard and brutal way. Buy some easy Linux distros (Mandrake or perhaps RedHat) then send all employees away to learn about using Linux. If they are depending on the haunting .doc format run Office through Wine. The special windows software should either be run through Wine or in an emulator such as VMware (although this would require a separate Windows license.) Get some geeks/gurus to work on making Wine working near perfect.
Whatever you chose professional training and a support deal with the distro manufacturer.
Look a monkey!
I suggest moving your server to an Intel 386DX/33 with at LEAST 16 mb of RAM. That should have no problem running a pre-1997 version of Linux. For Internet connectivity, you can get a 56k modem very cheaply from Best Buy. You should be able to lease a 24 hour 56k baud line from Earthlink at about $60 a month. This will be much cheaper than the costly T1 you have now. Move the clients to VT320s. You should be able to find a few terminal servers at Salvation Army, or perhaps K-mart. As for Office Software, hand out LaTeX manuals and have your users use vi for inputting, and then they can run LaTeX for the nice output. This should save on licensing costs on the server/clients, and a VT320 is a lot easier to maintain than a full PC. Instead of Outlook, teach your users how to use mailx. Instead of IE, give them a few lessons in lynx. You might want to limit the amount of users that you let surf the web concurrently, because with 16mb of RAM, we don't want the server thrashing too hard. Backups should be no problem. You should be able to fit all of the server's data files onto a zipdisk, which you can connect through the parallel port on the PC. Also, junk all your old HP LaserJets and pick up some old DEC LP printers. They can do quite a few pages an hour, as long as you don't mind the noise. If you implement my plan, I bet your users will be smiling all day!
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
It does seem like it should be that simple but you neglect the existence of the BSA audit. If you go that route you can expect to hear from the BSA before too long offering an amnesty if you buy the latest versions of the software. If you don't, of course, they'll take you to court and they'll get you for that one or two pieces of software you didn't license. Every company has one or two pieces of software they didn't license. That's all they need to get you for the software costs and legal fees. Fun, non?
My suggestion is that if you choose not to go the Microsoft route make a point of either:
1) purging every vestige of microsoft's sofware from your office
2) making sure everything is in pristine order for when the BSA comes along
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Micro$oft has way too much dominance in the business world when it comes to office applications. This is why I hope Lindows is able to proceed into development and future release onto desktops. That way, we can still run what I believe to be one of the best word-processing programs on the planet, yet still run an operating system that is more stable than Windows (and not overly priced).
I have been using it and it is simply great. Absolutely better than StarOffice and a fraction of the MS Office cost.
Give me your business name and location. I will call the BSA to perform a free audit of your company. I am sure after the friendly BSA auditors finish, your boss will see the reduction of cost moving to Linux will be. Don't worry about paying my consultancy fee for assisting you in this matter, I am sure the BSA will kick back some bucks to me because, without a doubt, your finance guys forgot to pay for every license for every software package on your company's computers.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
At this point you really don't .. because most of your employees also use Windows at home ...
.. as well as simple things like fonts not displaying properly .. websites not working properly (ie. streaming win media) (yes we know about crossover but BUYING a program to run FREE windows programs seems wrong) .. file system structure .. and believe it or not the 'ugly' interface was mentioned quite a few times. Yes GNOME looks nice - but its nowhere near as polished as Windows or Aqua ..
As an experiment some of our more computer literate employees switched to Linux - but in the end had to switch back due to a plethora of small but annoying problems.
These included opening files sent via email
I would call this a small company, but that actually makes the proposition easier.
First, evaluate the alternatives. What applications can be replaced with Linux equivalents and which can't. For the ones that can't, would it be cost-effective to consider limited licensing for those apps and running them from a Windows terminal service with Citrix Metaframe installed? Or would it be cheaper to by VMWare licenses for those users who absolutely have to run some esoteric Windows app.
When the alternatives have been considered, propose a pilot targetting a limited group of users to see whether the can continue their normal work routine on the new platform.
These are all starting points. The tough one is what to do about apps that only exist on Windows and are critical to the job the person is doing.
-David
* As is generally the case, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
I work for a large transportation airline. We are a large Sun shop. We are currently looking at switching over to Sun Office 6.0. Our software costs shold be dramatically reduced while maintaining MS office "compatibility". The compatibility issues seem to be the biggest factors we are addressing at this time.
------
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I work for a small company (4 people) and MS called us to try and get us to subscribe to their maintenance program. The first thing they said was "MS Project 2002 is going to be 4 times the cost of Project 2000 unless we got on the upgrade package".
Star Office? AppleWorks. The MS Office importer actually works on that one AND it's cross-platform.
The "specialized apps" are where it really makes the difference, unfortunately. For example, if you're doing mechanical engineering, there's nothing out there like Pro/ENGINEER for linux (That I know of...). Also, stupid little things like shipping and receiving needing to use UPS software and accounting using Peachtree or Quickbooks. There's not a lot of professional-level software like this out there for Linux. Don't get me wrong - there's a lot of stuff - I run it exclusively, but I have to reboot to use Pro/E.
Nonperiodic Central Trajectory
Keep the users on windows for now.
StarOffice 6.0 (get the supported version from Sun) $76.95/user
Mozilla 1.0 or Netscape 6.2.3 (1.0 will be out end of month)
SunONE Calendar Server 5.1 (formerly iPlanet, formerly Netscape) web interface, email integration $30/user
Cyrus IMAP 2.x (available with most distros)
OpenLDAP 2.0.xx (available with most distros also needed for the Calender Server)
pam_ldap (available with most distros)
Your fave distro with a recent version of Samba
Use the LDAP server for centralized user management, the Samba server for file sharing and authentication for the Windows boxes. The Calendar Server + Cyrus + OpenLDAP should make a nifty Exchange Server Replacement.Of course, don't forget Sendmail, which has some nifty integration with LDAP too.
All relavent documentation for doing this should be available on the web, mailing list archives and such.
You will need a Sparc, HP-UX or WinNT 4.0 box for the Calendar Server, but that should run you less than $1K for an older UltraSparc or around $1K for one of the new mini servers Sun is selling now.
So, total cost of migration (minus Labor)
~$1K for Sparc box
$106.95/user for software
~$70 Your favorite distro
10 users for less than $2500 plus Labor if you recycle existing hardware..... not bad, what's that? 1 Win2K Server License + 1 Copy of Exchange 2000 without the client licenses or the Office licenses?
Oh yeah, and now you can manage the servers via dial-up over ssh. Sweet!!!!!
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
It sounds like you're afraid that what you have won't be viable in a few years. If you have Windows 2000 and Office 2000 or XP, though, you should be fine.
Read this article on CNet. In your case, forget the Software Assurance program and buy OEM licenses from your vendors. The cost increases that Gartner is factoring are for the retail copies of Windows and Office -- OEM copies are usually about 60% of that price.
Microsoft's licensing changes have pissed off a lot of customers, and a lot of those customers are migrating off Windows and onto Linux on their servers (because heck, it's $999 for Windows 2000 Server and migrating to Samba/Linux doesn't involve much retraining for your users.)
I would be hesitant to push users off of Windows and Office at this point, especially if I had an all-Windows 2000 shop. With only 50 users, you can get a VAR to hook you up with OEM copies of the latest and greatest Windows/Office at any time without buying in to the Software Assurance program. Thus, I wouldn't worry too much about licensing changes. If you want to see the greatest benefit with the least migration cost, put your web and workgroup servers on Linux.
The desktops, however, are often more trouble than they are worth. I'd leave them alone if I were you. The migration and training costs just aren't worth it at this point. The best thing you can do is just to get them all on the same version of Windows (2000) and Office (2000 or XP) and leave them alone from there. You can look at it again in a couple of years.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
I agree, the apps matter.
Last time I tried staroffice it was good, but not 100%, which isn't surprising, MS office itself isn't 100%.
But what about CAD, you must use the exact same program, and VERSION, along with handfuls of specific apps.
There is also the ever common MS Access Databases (which are quite nice for many simple tasks).
Not to mention the crazy Calculation programs most larger technical companies have, heck I still use some DOS programs regularly.
With Microsofts past history more companies are getting scared to just upgrade, they evaluate whether EVERY application works properly and take it nice and slow, moving to Linux would be quite a jump. It likely is quite a bit cheaper to just pay $2k/yr and stay with MS
As an experiment, when I was moving my desktop at work to run on Linux (YAY!), I decided to try to do as much through the GUI as possible. I wanted to see how far things had come and answer your question which I was wondering about too. So, I installed redhat 7.2 loaded up KDE and got to work.
The simple answer is yes, you can do nearly everything through the GUI. I found that, I only had to move away from the GUI when I was doing non-standard things. For example I wanted to download a cutting edge version of a piece of software that had to be compiled. So, yeah I had to bring up a command-line to manage that. Overall though I think that anything I'd normally be able to do under windows I could do under Linux with no need of a command line.
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And its a huge nightmare the more we think of it and that's just the tech side. And we use Corel Office, so should have an easier time. The problem is all those custom access databases that people have that won't work anymore. That's gonna hurt big time. OpenOffice is good. Heck its great. But there isn't an access equivelent yet. That's were all the customization dookickeys happen that the IT staff probably won't know about. And they important. Other then that we may be doing it. It looks good, its cheaper, we can make more simple user menus. People can't install their cool version of something unless we let them. Less viruses. Less crashing. Better preformance on lower grade hardware. If people can run word processing, spread sheet, access the internet, get mail, run calendars, print, listen to a cd, and not crash 10 minutes into the day. People would be thrilled. Dang. Now I gotta go fix someone else.
-cpd
We can barely get some of the administrative people we have trained on Windows.
I tried to get my fiance to use Linux (SuSE 8.0), her response was "I don't want to learn Linux. I want to use Windows, that's what we have at work". Even though 90% of what she does on her computer at home (online banking, documents, web surfing) can be done just as easily on Linux, the exception being playing games (which I already have a dedicated machine for doing just that).
I tried telling her "There's nothing to learn really, you click on the menu, launch the program and use it like you would a Windows computer". Alas, to no avail.
My point being, even if you convince them it's cheaper, more stable, they won't care unless you force it down their throats. It's like medicine or a new dish. Some people like to try new things, others don't.
Not to mention the fact that you have to convince them that productivity won't be hurt. (now the Systems and help desk productivity might be hurt having to run around and say to everyone "it's just like windows". Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...) on their new Linux machines, then get mad when you tell them it won't work.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
I'd agree with an earlier poster: Stick with what you have for now. Software doesn't wear out; as long as you have the features you need, don't upgrade.
If you must upgrade, what about Apple Mac's? Is the Office licensing the same for Office for MacOS?
Another alternative: WordPerfect. The word processor is just as good, if not better than Word; the drawback is that the spreadsheet, while decent for many tasks, isn't suited for power Excel users. The last two versions of WP even run VB.
Several people have replied about migrating to StarOffice (can't say anything about OpenOffice since I've never used it). They are right in pointing out that getting the office apps right is the numero uno priority. Anything that a user uses 85% of the time is going to be something that they are very passionate about. Which brings me to my point.
Now to be honest, I haven't looked at SO in about a year, so things might have changed since then. But my impression (as a very long time Word/Excel user) was that the program was not up to snuff. On equivilent hardware it took forever and a day just to start up, the user interface is radically different than office products, and it just had a very clunky feel to it. Now the first two issues don't speak to whether SO is actually _better_, just different enough to create a learning curve. A learning curve that it will be hard to get the average user to try to tackle without a pretty darn good reason. I think that this will be your biggest hurdle. Saving a few bucks here or there is important only to the bean counters. And if those bean counters are going to be forced to switch from Excel (which most know quite intimately) to SO, then they might not be so quick to want to switch.
This is a small change to the way KDE and Gnome look, but I think it's an important change: the typical Gnome taskbar along the bottom is three times as big as Windows users are used to, and is cluttered with a bunch of useless toys. Get rid of everything except the buttons that indicate which programs are running, and of course the button that users think of as the "start" button.
The default menus in most distros are also way too extensive. They tend to have the same thing several times in several places. Pick the dozon or so programs your users generally need and put them in the main "start" menu. Hide the rest in a single "advanced" menu, or even get rid of the menu items altogether.
Put icons for the most important programs right on the desktop: Spreadsheet, Word Processor (not "Text Document" like Open Office says), etc.
By default, don't allow multiple desktops. Users who are advanced enough to understand the concept will know to ask you for it.
Finally, sit and watch users play with the system. Note any place that they frown and get confused. Don't believe self-deprecatory excuses that they just don't know what they're doing and they're sure the system is fine: if they don't know how to do something it's the systems' fault for not being easy enough.
Miko O'Sullivan
See here's what happens. The BSA says play nice with them and they'll be lenient with you. Nice means either paying for new software or paying for them to audit you and then pay for the license you were supposed to have. Keep in mind, that having a copy of office and a receipt for it is not legally licensed unless you've got the little certificate of authenticity. So if you weren't keep pristine records they'll possibly have you paying twice for your software.
Now, that's the "NICE" approach. The less than nice approach is that they file suit against you in court. During discovery they get to audit you and can find that lone piece of software that was infringing. Now you have to pay for that license, penalties, court costs, audit costs, damages. Now if it turns out that you are the one organization on earth that has all of your software licensed legitmately, then you can probably recover the costs for your legal defense, but even then you just wasted a lot of time and resources.
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I'm slowly migrating to Linux at my company. So far it's going pretty well. We had to add an extra box to everyone's desk in the call center due to [Non-Disclosure Agreement], so I spent $1000 for some old P233MMX w/64MB RAM, slapped Linux on them, and the users went to town.
After a couple of months with Linux in production I have to say that it's going well. Help desk calls are waaaaay down and users are happy. I've said this before, but here goes: users don't remember the last time they rebooted the Linux box, but sure remember the last time they rebooted Windows.
We're replacing Windows boxes right now by attrition, but plan to replace them all by the end of the year - OS, not hardware.
Since Office runs on Linux now it's at least theoretically possible to standardize on Open Office or something internally and have a single box with a single MS Office license converting both incoming and outgoing attachments to and from MS office format. When an open-source conversion utility comes out, you'll probably be able to abandon MS Office altogether but keep compatability with others.
Be aware that Citrix ain't really that cheap a solution. You'll pay through the nose for licenses (application licenses for each connectd user, terminal server client access licenses for each connection, citrix licenses for each user, and connection licenses for each computer). You have to get licenses for client machines (unless they're Windows 2k or XP which have their own) that connect to a Citrix server, which defeats the financial purpose of replacing Windows with Linux.
Because there is a Windows version...
As a user already familiar with MS Office, I had no difficulty at all learning how to use StarOffice. The migration was almost completely painless. The only hangup I've hit so far is that OLE controls on speadsheets (buttons, checkboxes, etc.) don't translate -- but that's a very esoteric feature. 90% of users will not see any significant difference.
"Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...) on their new Linux machines, then get mad when you tell them it won't work."
Screensavers? Have you SEEN the latest full Gnome install? I could spend an hour browsing through the stock screen savers! As for wallpaper, that's cross platform. A jpeg is a jpeg is a jpeg. P2P apps would be a problem if it wasn't for wine and people like Frank, who've figured it out for you. Closed formats are really the only thing that Microsoft apps can read that Linux apps can't. Even that barrier is crumbling.
Here is a quote:
Still, in my opinion, the great majority of end-users is still too dumb and this will cause you greater troubles, at least with all the time you will waste trying to explain'em that No, You Can'T Have A Dancing Lady On Your Desktop, And Even If You Were In A Windows Environment You Just Cannot Install It And Later Complain Because You Got a Virus!
However, have fun.-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
I don't have any problem using my Windows wallpapers on linux.
My other Slashdot ID is much lower.
I found this article online a few weeks ago, maybe off of /. I can't remember. Anyways, it gives some great real world examples of Open Source software in the workplace, along with the cost savings. Definetly worth a read if you're looking for facts to back up this decision.
http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html
I work for a medium sized (~40) company and we are no longer MS dominated.
Disclosure: we are an engineering company, so we have been doing some things on UNIX for a long time.
Having said that, our current mix is around 85% non-MS and 15% MS. For our engineering tasks, we use software that never did come from MS (although it was supported on the Windows platform, even though we never used it on Windows). For most of our "office" tasks, we use StarOffice 5.2 and will be moving to 6.0. All of this is now running on Linux based PCs.
The 15% MS portion is mainly for certain cases where we must use the same tool as our customer, and the customer want's to use MS tools (mostly spec. and project management related).
All-in-all, it works pretty well, and it definitely shaves $$ off your overhead costs, not to mention reduced audit worries.
Microsoft can't force you to upgrade your existing software, so take your time. Set up a couple of test Linux desktop systems (KDE looks/works like Windows) with OpenOffice 1.0 or StarOffice 6.0 (if you want/need things like templates) and Netscape 6.2 maybe, Gabber for instant-messaging, and look into Evolution if you need a Microsoft email/calendar workalike.
Then setup Wine (or CrossOver Office) for the few specialized applications and get them working well. Clone your desktop system for a few recruits (managers, if possible) and do some hand holding, er... training, until they're comfortable.
After that, it shouldn't be too painful to move the rest of the company onto all-Linux desktops. If you can avoid future rounds of Microsoft taxes for WindowsXP/OfficeXP (and later) this way, you will save about $700/user, or almost $35,000 _per year_. You'll save more if you replace those Sun machines with Linux, too, instead of upgrades.
So, try to figure out how to motivate people to use the new software. Maybe you can arrange for people to share in the financial rewards of the switch (a small raise for all the MS Office users, financed from the license savings). If people see and share in the financial benefits, that might motivate them. On the other hand, if they are forced by decree to use something they consider inferior, it's going to be a disaster.
Also consider introducing it gradually over the next year, requiring to use StarOffice for some peripheral business processes and getting people used to it without forcing them to switch cold.
I would probably go with StarOffice (as opposed to the free suites), though. That's not because StarOffice is necessarily better, it's because you can point out that this is a commercial program, developed and supported by a large software company. You probably don't want to fight the "switch from Office" and "switch to open source software" battles at the same time. Once your users accept StarOffice, you can then still switch to OpenOffice.
I suggest you to just download a copy of OpenOffice which is the open source office suite for Windows. That might do it since it will do a small but consistent migration in the aplications. They will learn linux later as they perform their general tasks on a office suite that is more secure and has less bugs that MS OFfice.
I suggest you to spend 20 USD in CD-R and burn copies of OpenOffice, then start distribuiting throught our your perzonel and tel them to do some test days where all their activities will be done completely in OpenOffice and they can migrate their data more confortably.
The JZA
Before you go all crazy, at least try a Mac running OS X, first. If you like it enough, you'll have the best of both worlds: Soft chewy desktop supported by a name-brand computer maker, with a crunchy Unix backbone.
You may never have considered a Mac before, but you might like it now--it's worth at least a look.
--
$tar -xvf
Well Sience you are already dealing with Sun for your servers StarOffice is an aforadable alternative to Office. The best thing to do is check all your office documents and make sure they work in StarOffice then alter any ones that dont work so they do. The next version of Solaris (9) will be shipping with Gnome later this year. This will provide a much more user friendly interface on top of a unix platform. To add to that if you planning on upgrading all the PC's anyways You may want to see if the Sun's SunRays are a good solution for you it makes administration easier and easier to train your emploies and if you have to stick with Windows the sunrays can be configures to run Windows threw a terminal server. Although you still have to play MS money it will be less then having 50 PCs installed.
Apple Macintoshes may be a better fit you can have the MS Office on it and still have a pricing structure that is not unreasionable. Keep in mind that any migration will cost more money in the short term. With training and and remakes of custom software but they will pay for them selfs in time.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Large companies are an excelent target for Linux.
Small to medium (50-500)sized companies are a good target as well. The right people for the job are going to be more expensive than you are used to though. Time to read mythical man month.
When it comes to small companies smaller than 50 my advice is when you are big enough to justify a full time IT person, then it is time to consider it. The market isn't big enough (yet) to ask your neighboor for help with Linux, so you really can't attempt a switch with a part time computer guy.
Unless that part timer happens to know Linux and Windows well.... In which case you should give him a raise because he isn't long for such a small operation. He will be offered a job he can't refuse RSN.
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
I am currently migrating a company 80+ users [150 employees] from 100% M$ to Linux. I think the tactics depends on the industry. I am working for a manufacturing company. The process is different then say , a law office. :) .
the first thing I did was bring in a linux. I have been able to easily manage the T1 for security, block inappropriate sites, and watch usage and traffic with Zero downtime
Yesterday our new server came in a Dual Athlon 360gig Raid5 monster! I will now integrate all the M$ servers, but one to this single server.
Third step is to switch the ERP system.. and here is where the trick comes in. We will get a new ERP system that runs a java client instead of a M$ client. that will leave the desktops only needing M$Office. to conduct business. we will have to look at Code Weavers CrossOver plugin and at Staroffice6.0 and see which is the better solution. when switching to Linux on the desktop we will of course go Thin client. this will dramatically cut administration cost. and save allot of man power.
In the engineering department we will be going to linux and ProE. YES ProE for Linux!! ProE for linux will be release at the end of this year. We will run redhat with acceleratedX drivers. just to keep it simple. (I don't think Xfree86 ever has full FireGL support any how). and then we are done
Need help finding the flow? http://www.myspace.com/naturalismandbalance
A lot of it just comes down to file formats. If you can't switch now, then at least you can make it easier to switch later: have your users start saving their stuff to standardized formats instead of closed proprietary lock-in formats. Yes, OpenOffice can read MS Word files, but just about everything can read RTF, and RTF has all the functionality needed, 99% (subjective) of the time.
Once you get out of needing dead-end tools, you'll be in a better position to be able to use whatever you want to.
Start doing it now, even if you don't ever intend to break free of MS. Standard files might even be more compatable with future MS products than today's lock-in formats will be.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I have a half-dozen FreeBSD boxes that work great as servers, network management tools, etc.
However, I'd rather spend my free time doing something fun than spend it fscking around with what passes for a GUI under any x86 Unix. Applications just work under Win2k and XP and I don't need to become an X/kde/gnome/qt guru to make it happen.
I think there's room for both.
First of all lay down your architecture. In our shop we started by loading a huge compaq server with memory. We went to a local used pc company and bought a whole bunch of used p350 machines at 100 dollars a piece. We loaded redhat 7.2 on the big server along with open office, mozilla and some other productivity apps. We turned on GDM on the big server to dish out x displays. Next we built a kickstart install to do the workstations. The kickstart does a standard minimal linux load with x and at the end of the install modifys the inittab to query the server for a display. These machines do nothing but X display so we wanted to capture the free cycles to run computatational fluid dynamics applications on. So we add the mosix kernel at the end of the kick start and boot the now running workstation. Another way to accomplish this is by using LTSP but it is more trouble than it is worth in my opinion. It is far easier to just load linux on the local disk. We totally control the desktop on each machine right down to the application icons...The moral of the story is "we are happier than pigs in shit with the outcome" and I have never had to show a single user how to use the kde desktop.
Got Code?
I just know this will get modded down to minus 1000, but I can't resist:
For over a year or so I'm thinking of moving from Linux to windows. Why? Because of the stability and usability. Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
For the last couple of months I've noticed an increasing amount of posts on Slashdot from people subtly promoting Microsoft and putting down Linux. They say just the right things to make sure their posts don't get modded down, but essentially try to persuade people to think the types of things Microsoft wants them to think.
Here's a very interesting article from the UK Guardian about corporations using fake people on newsgroups and email forums to rubbish their opponents. They use companies who promise to be very discrete and do it in such a way that it is very difficult to link the individuals back to the company concerned. The article cites the case of this type of tactics being used by Monsanto. Is it really so difficult to believe that Microsoft might pay one of these companies to post anti-Linux comments on sites like Slashdot? Read the article.
I would install as many alternatives as you can, and make them the default. Open a doc in staroffice, and things should work. You can get at word, but not without going through a wrapper that requires you to email what staroffice cannot do that you need. Users will try to use staroffice where they can, where it fails they will tell you what doesn't work.
Or to save even more money, just start migrating people to linux/kde/koffice, after verifying that their applications will work.
Remember, you are a company, you have work to get done. Find out what tasks you really need to do, and then find a linux program to do it. For those who only use a few features of Word this is easy, koffice is there already. For those who need something complex, you might need wine, or devolpe your own solution.
Do not forget to do some practice runs. Take your backups, restore them to a equivelent systems, and convert that system to linux with the old data, and run some fake transactions. (be careful not to get this data into the real world). And don't convert anyone before a major deadline. Accounting gets converted right after payday, and nowhere near april 15th!
You don't have a hurry now, if the BSA does come knocking, or Microsoft does start demanding unreasonable fees, you have a plan in place to convert quickly, otherwise just convert as an open source alteranative is just as good as the windows equivelent. (Note, I said just as good for your pruposes, and Not as good. If you never use some feature, then there is no reason to wait for it)
Stop installing kernels and leave your system alone. Damn. Use whatever kernel your distro has deemed "Stable" and stick with it. If you keep tossing pre-this and pl-that on there OF COURSE it's going to crash...
Right now, I can't keep my development pc running for more than a week because of some application that leaks memory and uses up my entire memory after a few days.
Perhaps you, being a developer should take a look at the source code and assist in resolving the memory leak, or at the least report your experience to the maintainer(s) of the app so they can correct the problem. Community support means just that.
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles.
I just love it when I encounter yet another website that adheres to industry standards and renders perfectly in mozilla, konqeror, opera...
Here are a few things that I've used to eliminate MS products on my networks:
:)
For word processing I like AbiWord. The 1.0.1 version has just been released and it works quite well. It doesn't have *every* feature of word, no sane program would, but it does have all the features needed for general word processing.
I don't have much use for spreadsheets, but Gnumeric and kspread have worked fine for me. People have also mentioned that OpenOffice/StarOffice has a good spreadsheet.
For reading email there's Evolution, Netscape or Mozilla Messenger, and various others.
For database, use MySQL or PostgreSQL as the backend instead of access. Use HTML as a frontend so you can access it from any system, even Windows.
For webmail, take a look at squirrelmail. There are many other imap/pop/mtas that you can choose from to create your mail server. Of course, you'll replace IIS with Apache
For viruses you'll need to use the Unix honor system. su to root, choose a file at random then delete it, then email everyone in your address book with similar instructions. To mimic the crashes you can try turning off the power when you're in the middle of something very important.
Whoah.. whoah.. WHOAH hold on a sec. FIVE DAYS ?!?! Dude. The matrix trailer came out yesterday morning in quicktime format. I decided to finally take the plunge and try out the crossover plugin. It was up and running in 5 minutes, and I was playing quicktime movies in mozilla.
Something is seriously wrong if it takes you FIVE DAYS to set that up. I smell a troll.
That's not a bug, that's a security feature. And that's how you sell it to management.
Although you can install your own wallpaper, of course; assuming that windows wallpapers still come as essentially giant bitmaps?
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
The same arguments apply:
For over a year or so I'm thinking of moving from Linux to Mac OS X. Why? Because of the stability and usability. Mac OS X appears to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles. (Hint, IE for Mac)
I've developed a lot of software for unix and am now seriously considering porting them to Mac OS X. Hell, it will be a lot easier to sell these things as well. Right now, I don't even have to bother. (porting is much simpler from Linux to the BSDish Mac than from Linux to Windows)
...
So how about it... Porting my own software to Mac OS X. I don't see a lot of problems. filesystem links, permissions are all supported. Most applications can be scripted...
Anyone have experience going from unix/linux to Mac OS X?
GPL Deconstructed
You obviously have never dealt with a user base that thinks, to an individual, that the company runs on their whim. These kind of people will call in favors and kill your project and your job in weeks flat. Trust me. No, ease them into it, woo them over group by group.
'There is great chaos under heaven, and the situation is excellent.'
If only Macintosh would port OS/X to the x86 architecture problem solved. Actually if you are buying new hardware get a mac. OS/X rules and you can always run linux if you disagree. A little off topice, but OS/X is what linux w/KDE/Gnome should aspire to be (except that linux would be free of course)
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
I had to work for 5 years before I got an office with windows. No way am I going back.
FreeBSD is both "free from" and "free to". You won't have any fancy GUI admin tools, but so what? You're not paying your IT department to look at eye candy. On the user side, with KDE or Gnome, it's going to be easy to use.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
You are right that this is the main weakness of Linux, silly as it sounds. It's the main reason I basically switched all my home computing to the Macintosh running MacOS X in the last year.
If you want beautiful fonts, that's what you need. Nothing else compares.
AppleWorks reads typical office documents, but has trouble with the really esoteric features, such as multiple columns and the like. Sadly, I wound up purchasing Mac office for that reason.
I remember trying StarOffice and thinking it was almost eerily like Microsoft Office. It actually was such a close resemblance that I hated the thing.
D
This is the kind of thing that -will- have to be planned, and to get the kind of support you want, you should enlist the help of others in your organization.
First step. Identify what people use now. Aside from the obvious Windows version $foo, you've probably got IE, Office, etc. Also identify other non-Microsoft applications that people use that still require Windows.
After you've figured out what apps you have to replace, start looking for the open source replacements. Obviously for IE, you've got Opera, Netscape, Mozilla, Konquerer, etc. Grab them all, put them on a machine. Bring in some of your employees, have them test out browsers. See which one works best for them (or, give them the option). Grab StarOffice or OpenOffice, and sit them down, show them how it works. Get their feedback. If SO/OO doesnt cut it, look for other options (KOffice, AbiWord, WordPerfect, etc). Do this for all the apps you can find Linux replacements for.
For the programs you can't replace, look into compatibility with WINE. I'd be willing to bet there are Win32 accounting applications in use that probably can't be replaced for free with a Linux version (however, since I haven't looked lately, I very well could be wrong...). So, your next best bet is to see if they work with WINE. That may be the only way to get them working.
You probably won't be able to replace every app in use in your organization with a free Linux workalike. Some may have to be grandfathered in WINE for a while. And you may not be able to replace every Windows install with a Linux install. But if you do your planning properly, keep other people informed and take their feedback, I'm sure you can get the support you need to push for a near-total migration. And when you do, don't stop looking. New apps come out all the time. Something you can't replace now may be replaceable in 3 months.
"To err is human, to forgive is simply not my policy." --root
Well, you must have realistic goals like: Reduce software costs, provide a stable environment, reduce support costs etc...
If you want to use Linux as the OS, you may get some opposition from the Windows fans. So, migrate using a gradual approach.
After you do all these things... the stability and usability of the user and server software should be evident and the switch to Linux as the OS should be fairly painless as there are Linux equivalents to the programs they've been running on the old Windows installations. You may find you have made some Linux fans in the office too!
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
I changed one full department and may spread the change further by using the BSA's scare tactics and their current advertising campain. My boss heard one of their ad's that say "We'll fine you 100,000 dollars per incident, which can add up to millions!" and asked if we are compliant.... I honestly answered, that if a sane person did the audit, yes. but by BSA standards... no, and if we are ever audited they will leave with a fine on us even if we were 100% perfect... it's just like OSHA, they never leave without issuing a violation. I also informed him that cince the employees are allowed to take their laptops home there can be upwards of 20 violations per computer as we have no control over what the employees do at home or outside the building... I can wipe all the laptops, but then the salespeople will whine again..
he then asked me if there was another solution, and I wipped out my Redhat 7.3 laptop with open office..
Guess what... we're gonna switch to NON-MS.. all thanks to the BSA.
so basically... Use Microsoft's and the BSA's tactics to your advantage... push the fear,loathing and threats they are pushing... keep mentioning the 100,000 dollar fine PER incident. that the companies sensitive data will be accessable by strangers during the BSA visit, and the business disruption and public notification by the BSA that XYZ company STEALS.
works great..... Thanks Microsoft and the BSA for the BEST tools a Linux Advocate could ever want.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It's a very thorough overview of all the major steps (technical, mental, emotional, you name it) that an office must pass through in order to successfully dump Microsoft. It'll be very helpful to your cause.
Do the servers first. Use stable no-nonsense apps like Samba, Bind, Sendmail, and go with a stable distro. I have used Redhat and had good support. After a while like that, when you feel ready, you can fire up some clients to test with. Get feedback early on about what works and what needs work from real users. Go back and retool. Rinse and Repeat.
Then after some time, make a cost benefit analysis of your own. Tweak the numbers. Figure in support costs. Codeweaver licences are 50 bucks a seat. Add in anything like unforseen funds for any incidentals, like bringing in a heavy Linux Guru. Don't try to short change a major conversion.
Then show it to your boss. This is the ammo he/she needs to sell it to the top managment.
Good Luck.
I may be bad with names, but I'll never forget your IP address
Because of the stability and usability. Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
This is only your personal preference. I use both KDE and windows daily, and I prefer having the multiple desktops and clean GUI of KDE. Because I know how to use Linux (translate: know what I want to do), I find the KDE interface easier to use. I also find it more aesthetically pleasing - how many Windows boxes have active backgrounds?
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles.The main problem I've found with Linux is that it is a chore to configure, but once you've got it configured correctly, nothing breaks. Contrast this with Windows, where botched application installation can break pieces throughout the entire system. Correcting a bad install in Linux may involve little more than editing a text file; in Windows, you may have to reinstall the OS, reregister with Microsoft, and reinstall every application that you use. I've spent countless hours doing this, and even though I hate vi and editing text files, I have to admit that I prefer the Linux/UNIX method of editing a few lines to the 8+ hour complete system reinstalls I have to do with Windows.
Someone once said there's no such thing as a free lunch. With Linux, it's reliable, and it's free, but if you want to play movies, you may have to spend a substantial amount of time downloading and configuring the application, and then reading the documentation, fixing bugs, and recompiling. With Windows, you pay for a system which basically takes all of these things out of your way, but at great risk; if the software is buggy, or the install fails, it could break the entire system. There is simply no recourse for a botched install - if you're lucky, you might get away with reinstalling only the application(s) affected. If not, you could end up reinstalling the entire OS.
And I haven't even begun to talk about virus/security issues. If you value your data, Linux might be your only option (either that or a constant backup plan...)
When one thinks about the system as a whole, Windows is only suitable for people who want to use the PC as an entertainment device - people who rely on the integrity of their data and the security of their computer systems should not run Windows. Use Windows for games - use Linux for serious computing.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
At some point, Scribus will be ready to do serious desktop publishing. StarOffice/OpenOffice (see the OpenOffice marketing brochure here) can do PowerPoint. What exactly do 'yall use Access for? (we've got very good databases, but the Access-like DB frontends I've seen just aren't end-user ready IMHO).
Also, you should find lots of useful school-targeted Linux resources here.
Those green screens can't be beat for reliability and security!
That is all.
OTOH, its no problem for new users as they have to be trained to use company software anyway. In that case there really is no problem.
To be honest, once (normal, non-geeky)people get used to something, its hard to get them to switch. This is really not a question of which software is better or which is less of a financial burden. Case in point - I remember when we switched from a DOS version of 'Books in Print' to the Windows version. Although the Windows version was clearly superior, easier to use, and more powerful, users frequently griped, purely because it wasn't what they were used to.
YMMV of course, but I would start with new users and gradually make the switch.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
Cygwin goes a long way to make porting your apps easier (if you don't mind including its runtime) -- though the ideal thing to do is write them with portability in mind in the first place. wxWindows helps if you have the necessary foresight, and porting GTK/glib apps to run natively on Windows isn't so hard either.
:)
Writing your apps in Java or Python (with a porable UI library) is a cheap way to get portability, too.
I've gotta' question how you run your system, though. For me, getting the ability to play Windows videos was a matter of making a one-line addition to my APT sources list and running "apt-get install mplayer-k6". Further, kernel-level issues have been pretty much unheard of for me for a few years now (since reiserfs was unstable -- that was ugly, but it also wasn't part of the official kernel). Having your entire machine go down due to memory-leaking applications leaves me incredulous, too -- the kernel will start killing apps when they exhaust available memory and swap, rather than risking deadlock, and memory-leaking apps just haven't been a problem for me (I live off Galeon, Evolution, emacs and vim, ofter with several JVM instances and a postgresql daemon going -- perhaps you run different stuff, though).
Small office, only around a dozen machines. We went with RedHat 7.1 and OpenOffice1.0. after getting hit with a threat for an audit by the BSA delivered by a local cop --we're in Taiwan.
We did have some bizarre problems with Open Office that we can't figure out, but we just used Star Office instead on those machines and so far there's no complaints although the OpenOffice screw up didn't look good. Overall, the staff definitely prefer it. Some of the younger staff actually have experience using Linux in their college dorms which we were very surprised to learn.
The management tends to panic over any little delay the transition causes, but as long as they see desktops and word processors they don't really know the difference.
I think it's important to mention that we've been using CodeWeavers RH rpms of Wine and we've found quite a few apps that worked fine with no adjustments from the standard rpm install that aren't in their database. In fact, it seemed most of the MS shareware type stuff that we wanted to keep worked just fine and that the database should be arranged so that it shows apps that DONT work rather than ones that DO. And what bears even more attention is that this self same database is filled with posts like --you dirty scoundrels will never get this app working under Linux. I find this totally bizarre. If you go check it out, look at some of the comments on Photoshop. Why would anybody take their precious time to go posting negative comments in such a place? It's bizarre how zealous people get over an OS.
First, I haven't found a good shared calendaring system that compares with the calendar bits in Exchange/Outlook. Server-based calendaring is important, even in smaller companies.
Second, MS Access. Shut up about MySQL for a minute. Access is a bit more than a data store (which is what MySQL is). It also has forms generation capabilities, makes pretty reports, and it's easy to use. It makes high-end end users able to write little "what are you going to bring to the potluck" applications quickly. It's not an enterprise computing tool, it's a personal computing tool. I haven't seen anything like it in the linux/open source world.
I'd love for someone to point me in the right general direction of replacements for these systems that don't have the heavy burden of MS software (a full-time on staff licensing manager).
A lot of things are different with the look and feel of KDE/GNOME and Windows. What do you tell a person who has no experience with Linux to do when Konqueror goes crazy as it often does? You cannot simply say "oh if your desktop locks up, hit alt-control-delete select explorer.exe, hit kill, the select file, new task and type explorer.exe"
/home/$username, they want something intuitive like "My Documents!" Laugh all you want, but "My Documents" makes since. It's where "my documents" are. My Pictures, etc. Microsoft has done so much more to make Windows easy to use than the KDE or GNOME teams.
I have been dealing with a lot of inexperienced users lately. Most of you people have no clue how difficult Linux is compared to Windows ME or XP. It gets even worse when you compare it to MacOS X. Linux is quite frankly a piece of shit on the desktop for the average user. It is too hard to get used to it. For those who are into it and know how to use it, it is great but that is a real minority. People don't want to be told that their files are in some directory called
If KDE 4.0 or GNOME 3.0 cannot be at least where Windows 98 or 2000 are in terms of consistency and ease of use, just give up on the desktop. Linux will never win if it cannot at least do that.
So many of you seem to think that you can explain to the average person basic UNIX concepts like setting permissions. The average user doesn't want to learn how to do anything that isn't remotely intuitive and sadly a lot of things in Linux just aren't. There are more people like my parents who can't even be bothered to remember where they saved their documents than there are people willing to learn how to use Linux in its current state. When they want to remove a program, they don't want to have to run KPackage and find a package called "Mozilla-base-20020517" They want to see remove Mozilla and have that remove Mozilla. They don't want to have to search through 50 fucking pages of documentation to figure out how to get their cd burner to work. They want to simply start up their pc, have it auto detected with minimal fuss and be able to drag and drop mp3s from their personal folder.
I having been itching to do this.
My thoughts is that you should set up a server to run everything, users would connect with either xterms or VNC.
Get people used to Open/Star Office on their own machines and slowly start migrating people to the server. For most business people star office has everything so you don't need to run a desktop or WM just straight into staroffice from login.
Your company will eventually have a centralised machine that makes it a breeze for security/backup/admin work.
This is a great idea in theory, but I've been trying and trying to switch our company away from MS Office and Linux still offers nothing that can do the job for us.
.XLS files. I've never made any of these work correctly under OpenOffice 1.0 or Star Office.
In our case, the big issues are two-fold:
1. We have quite a few databases built and maintained by individuals or departments, all made with MS Access. Linux still doesn't have a 100% compatible MS Access clone.
2. We use a number of extremely complex Excel spreadsheets with VB code and macros integrated into them. They're practically stand-alone applications running as
I know these two examples are prime illustrations of why it's important to use open solutions wherever possible... But that's not always realistic in a world where businesses already spent many thousands on MS solutions. It's only logical that people would actually *use* them after paying for them.
My current Linux migration strategy centers around the DIET-PC project on Sourceforge. This project, based loosely on the much better known LTSP project, allows turning old PCs into pseudo thin-clients that remote boot via tftp protocol and run either an RDP or Citrix ICA client in X.
(We already have Citrix Metaframe in-house, so it makes sense to quit using NT 4.0 or 2000 on as many workstations as possible, and let those users work on a desktop served via Citrix to a Linux-based PC.)
We have 45 users, most local but three remotes in other states. We recently took a look at Microsoft's pricing, calculated our costs over the next three years, and ended up converting to Lotus SmartSuite. If the current StarOffice had been ready in time, it would have been a strong candidate, too. Keys to the process:
- Bring the users into the decision, not only what software to use but why.
- 3rd party training for software other than MS Office is available, even if not listed in their course lists. Ask. Our local Productivity Point has personnel qualified to teach the Lotus software and has complete course materials, they just don't list it in their offerings because there's so little demand. They were delighted to teach the courses for our users, at very reasonable cost.
- Having a backup process leads to user comfort. We'll still have four people with MS Office on their PCs, mostly administrative assistants and a lead customer service person. Their primary purpose is to provide access to documents which don't get converted by the time we remove Office from everyone else's PCs and to convert documents from outside the company which for one reason or another won't convert to Lotus cleanly using the Lotus software. This is a real benefit to our users and we wouldn't have gotten their buy-in without being able to assure them that we weren't abandoning their old documents.
- Don't rush the process. We started out by giving our users 60 days to convert their old documents to Lotus. We'll end up giving them an additional 30 days on a case-by-case basis. We installed Lotus on user's PCs in addition to MS Office so they could get used to the new software gradually. Once a user has been to training we made it clear that all new documents were expected to be in Lotus format. They have both the incentive and the training to make the change and it is working out very well. On the other hand, there has to be a due date or nothing will get done!
Our users initially resisted changing and why not? Learning new software, even as simple a change as from MS Word to Lotus Word Pro, is intimidating to someone who views computers as a tool rather than a way of life. We overcame their resistance by putting the facts before them: the lifecycle cost of MS Office over the next three years vs. the lifecycle costs (including training!) of switching to Lotus, Corel, etc. The savings were really very dramatic, particularly for a company like us which tends to keep using old software for much longer than the vendor would really like. Since we're a pretty open company anyway and take pains to not only present financial information to everyone but teach them how to interpret it as well, this had an impact. When you put it like, "we can spend the money on MS Office software and upgrade desktop PCs every five years, or switch to an alternative and keep to our three-year cycle", everyone had the same answer. They *like* getting new PCs every three years. The admin assistants *like* using shiny new Thinkpads which they can take to meetings and access information or take minutes with wireless connections to the LAN, etc. All of the productivity and convenience improvements we've made over the past five years took capital to implement, capital which in no small part would have gone into simply maintaining the software they already had. They didn't want to do that.
Once the decision was made we immediately chose a dozen key users and sent them off to a special Lotus SmartSuite class we had developed with our local Productivity Point franchise. A combination of the Introductory and Intermediate classes, it assumed that everyone knew how to use a mouse, access pop-up menus, etc. and concentrated on the differences between MS Word and Lotus WordPro, Excel vs. 1-2-3, and Powerpoint vs. Harvard Graphics. The class lasted three days and we had a very enthusiastic (and very relieved!) team when they got back, confident that they knew what they were doing and how to do it. They've been evangelists to the rest of the organization to the point where people were competing to get into the next class! A month into the process, people were competing to see who could be more 'MS Office free' and new documents were all being generated using the Lotus software. That was a month before the deadline! Now when someone from outside the company sends us a Word document (non of which, by the way, we've had the least trouble converting to Lotus,) people grumble about how 'backward' other companies are. Those who have regular contact with MS Office users outside the company are now evangelizing them and rumor has it that at least a couple of our business partners, faced with the same costs we were facing, are considering the same move away from MS Office.
The key is not that the Lotus software is so good but rather that it is good enough and *much* less expensive (and a key to that is that we buy IBM notebooks and desktop PCs, mostly because of their terrific technical support, and SmartSuite comes free with them. A real savings, that!)
Difficulties in our project:
- Some MS Office documents do not convert very well to Lotus. Most Word and Excel documents do (in the case of Excel, usually needing at least some clean-up by hand,) and Powerpoint presentations don't convert nicely at all. Don't even think about converting MS Access to Approach (but then, think about it: do you really trust anything more complex than a grocery list to Access? If its really important, shouldn't it have a real database behind it?)
- Some people just don't like change. We've got a couple. Peer pressure works most of the time but we have one granite boulder who not only isn't going to change, is senior enough that it would take tippy-top management ordering him to before he would, and then he'd just sabotage it ("See? Told you so!") Not a real problem, though: he doesn't really use the computer for anything other than e-mail, anyway (and half the time he dictates replies to e-mail to his admin assistant.) His assistant is very happy with Lotus and buffers between him and the rest of the company, so it works out.
Good luck!
he/she is probably in a office/business that does not experience much change, growth or loss. which is nice, recession proof and all. the bad thing is, if Microsoft decides to jack the rates on all of the software licenses, it can be a very big deal. this is probably a company that has never thought of using venture capital to pay for hardware/software. they want to be able to use the same stuff they always have, for the same costs that they always have. this attitude is probably because that is how everything else works in the company.
that has been my experience as of late.
Hi, I did not do a migration specifically, but I did support a company of
over 200 desktop Linux users including creating and maintaining the build
that was used and developing the support infrastructure.
Since Linux offers vastly more options in terms of administration and
management of a large deployment of workstations I think you are clearly
making the right choice, well beyond the mere savings in software cost.
My finding was that there are several key things which make the transition
work: providing users with a stable system with an ergonomic graphical
interface (such as KDE), providing good tools to match those that users
would expect, laying out policy from the top-level down about acceptable
document formats and standards to be used (this is *extremely* important
since one Microsoft user can try to force a whole department to switch to
his standard therefore policy *has* to be set about document and other
formats), and finally spreading the good news about open-source and
conveying to users a sense of enthusiasm that they are participating in an
important revolution.
Finally, I can say it amazed me when I say people who were not particularly technically adept and had never used anything other than Windows working with Linux with complete and total ease.
On the other side there will always be the "picky" user who perceives the switch away from the software they are used to as an imposition. I found that patience and spending extra time with such people could eventually win them over and instill in them the same enthusiasm for open-source that many share.
Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...) on their new Linux machines, then get mad when you tell them it won't work.
If you were doing your "anal administrator" job properly, this isn't a problem. You see, the anal NT admin would only allow the end user to use the mouse on their machine. Typing would require an admin password.
So the answer is to become an anal NT admin, then switch everybody to Linux when they are used to not being able to do anything.
Is this post not nifty? Sluggy Freelance. Worshi
I think the real question should be "how do I -INTEGRATE- Linux into my office?" The trick is not to have it one day MS the next OSS, that's bruital. You want to be able to make it a gradual switch. If you're working with enterprise clients you'll never fully get rid of Windows unfortunately. There's no alternative for some of the tools used (like Visio, and full compatability with dumbass Excel sheets etc, and even some web portals that for some reason only runs under IE5).
What you can do though is start sunsetting MS based backend services. File servers, Intranet web servers, print servers. Eventually you'll be able to replace the voicemail system, and you'll be able to get some of the engineering crew on to Linux. Your mail server can be sendmail with Virus checking software.
There's really no need other than cost to move Joe Desktop User from Windows to Linux. You can have a tightly controlled desktop enviornment so that they can't install the latest and greatest virus etc...
So the "key" would be back end first, and then slowly move people off the front-end. Forcing people on to Linux is only going to make them mad.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
What about the option no one seems to consider? Stick with what you have right now. It works today...it will still work tomorrow. Get out of the "gotta have the latest" mindset.
For most of what business users do, using software that is a year or two or five old is just fine.
This is just a lot of FUD. Currently Linux Windows Managers are an easy transistion from Windows. In fact most Windows users will catch on quickly. The biggest train issue will be the Office Suite. Luckly most office suites tend to be a lot like MS Office in Menus and Commands to the move won't be as hard as expected. No retrain won't be a big problem. The problem will be the fear of moving from Windows to Linux that some of the Employees will have.
Let me guess...you're a college student, right? Probably at a technical college, even.
Have you ever tried to coach a 50-year-old secretary through just a small upgrade of one version of MS Word to another? It's a goddamn nightmare, and companies devote millions of dollars every year to retraining every time MS forces the latest version of Office and Windows down their throat. And those are incremental changes. Just because you can configure Gnome to have windows-like borders and icons does not mean that it will be an "easy" transition.
I wish I could say that I can't believe this kind of mindless cheerleading got moderated up to +5.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
First we don't really have enough info.
1 -- Are you on W2k? Win9x? NT4?
2 -- What do you do? Sales and marketing? Widget makers?
3 -- What about mail? What about calendaring?
Second the sane apporaoch would be to have at least three Windows machines on hand at all times, or have some sort of WINE/Virtual PC type program availble.
If the client Machines are Win9x either upgrade them to W2K or remove them from the network and add some sort of large media like Zip or Jaz drives. This is so when your Power Point Presentatioin simply will not open and/or looks like shit.
Next you really need to test the waters with your new OS. Does it have to be Linux? Could it be OS X (expensive but cheaper than MS (sort of)? Could it be SUN on Intel? Could it be FreeBSD?
Which Linux? Red Hat? Suse? Mandrake? Corel?
I think there's a lot more thinking for you to do.
Should you/Can you switch? Yeah probably. There's a lot of advice flying out there.
Why can't you simply stay on what you have and not upgrade? They can't force you to relicense your current SW (or are you already running XP?)
And what about mail? My guess is Mail is WAY more important that Office. That should be a top proirity. Switching from Outlook/Exchange? You've got trouble. I don't personally like them but the people that do are fanatic! What will you replace it with? The closest thing on Linux would be Lotus Notes. Notes ain't exactly fun on Linux at the moment. And Notes comes with it's own slew of issues, which as a Notes Admin/Developer I have some insight to...
I think your asking for a lot of work/trouble/aggravation and pain.
This
This is so true. I'm still in amazement when people tell me Linux is hard to use. How's that again? Two or three years ago when I did my first installs, yeah it was really tough, but now? A fresh mandrake install is incredibly easy to do, and it works like a charm.
Both KDE and Gnome are very easy to use once you start exploring. Click random buttons for half an hour, or have someone guide someone through the crucial points for 5 minutes, and you'll be just fine. My friends come over and use my Linux desktop all the time. No complaints at all, once they find out which icon means "Web Browser". In addition, I've managed to sell most of them on Mozilla after I show them tabbed browsing and popup killing. Sure, Linux can be harder than Windows, but that's when you want to really start configuring it, and then once you get over the initial hurdle it's a lot easier to configure something, if less immediately friendly.
All the pro-Microsoft sentiment around here is very very odd to me too. I'm sure there's astroturfing going on, but I'm also betting that it's a lot of people who haven't tried Linux since their last slackware install failed in 1996, but will trumpet WindowsXP or 2k as being rock solid.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
My main concern with moving to a Unix environment is scheduling with MS Exchange. I would need to find an affordable mail server application that can compete if not beat out Exchange Server. Is there such a thing?
Steltor makes Corporate Time Server, which is really LDAP, IMAP, SMTP and their proprietary app for calendaring (using open protocols) -- It costs about the same as Exchange Server but everything's out in the open. We briefly evaluated them about 6 months ago but other projects become higher priority. I think I'll be reviewing them again shortly.
/Plan ahead. Change MS Office default file formats to friendly open formats now. Setup all servers to linux. Test users interest with Knoppix bootCD-OS. If Knoppix goes well with users install Win32 versions of favorite Open Source apps. Run your own audit of the company's win32 systems. Duplicate and convert propietary data files to open files (e.g., .doc to .rtf) by hand if you have to, but some folks may have automated it. Find special case win32 software needs, and see if wine will support. Then convert several users at a time, starting with the tech savy, and see if you can avoid mutiny. People have invested a lot of time learning one way, they hate upgrades, (remember the last of many Microsoft and Adobe upgrades?) so be patient when you upgrade your users to Linux desktop.
.rtf is easy. It will make all upgrades to OpenOffice much easier, and allow several version of MS Office to play nice, even if you don't upgrade. Years later you will be able to read old MS Office files, hooray!
.rtf to .doc is critical. The user is a tease, no email or code! But it is an idea that should be packaged.
/AH /ON /S > m:\filetreedump\box2tree.txt" on Win98, and goto to regedit and dump the registry to text file e.g., m:\filetreedump\box2reg.txt.
Someone needs to write a nice perl based evaluation tool to audit what apps and software keys everyone in the Windows network is running.
Changing MS Word users default Save file format to
As many have said:
Setup servers for windows file and print, web hosting, DNS, DHCP, and SMTP (samba, apache, bind, DHCPd and sendmail) in the back office. LEAF, LRP and CoyoteLinux firewalls are an easy place to start the conversion.
Try Knoppix BootCD-OS (debian) on every box, see if users can deal. It is complete Desktop with OpenOffice, Xmms, ogg-vorbis, Gimp, FreeCiv, and tons more on 700Mb CD-R. It auto-detects a ton of hardware, such as sound at each boot, and does not get installed to harddisk. It needs 128Mb Ram, or pagefile/swapfile/scratch disk on a box with less ram. If the user can't deal, eject the CD, and reboot back to MS Windows.
Setup each Win32 computers to run a script stored on a central server, at each boot. It saves a ton of work later.
Getting Win32 users into the OpenSource thing by installing Win32 OpenOffice and Mozilla on your current MS Windows install base. See how that goes with the users.
Convert your existing data from
Run an audit on your Win32 systems. Get a file dump e.g., "dir
Converting data is essential. Collecting data from users computer and registry, and inserting it into new email client, and Office apps should be automated, but no one has done it yet.
Wine testing for special apps is important.
After careful planning start rolling out conversions. This way you can convert data, support all the apps, and not loose users.
-Nathaniel
For this and many other reasons I believe this post is entirely bogus. MicroSoft should not pay this guy, he blew it.
Wow, thinking of going to Windows from Linux because you can't watch all yer videos?
How funny. I have no problem using mplayer.
You have applications that leak memory?
Use different applications or restart them when they leak too much.
Personally, I have no problems at all with the development environments in Linux and am more secure and confident with them than I am of comparable Window's offerings. Heck! One of the main reasons I originally came to Linux was because of the NON-robustness of the Windows and NT tools and underlying OS's. YMMV
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
We're a small development company in Mexico (7 employees, 4 of them developers) and we just did this. Pointers:
- Keep a reference manual around at all times. Everyone will keep asking questions about how to do everything from mounting a cd to changing the wallpaper. I've found that "Linux in a Nutshell" by O'Reilly is quite good for the shell inclined people.
- Have at least one or two experts you can go to available at all times (hire them if you don't have them).
- Migrate someone first. Test apps and everything your company uses with him. THEN consider migrating everyone else.
- Search for the alternatives. We found kde to be more adequate to our needs, installed OpenOffice (works great), a messenger app (Msn4Lin, based on ccmsn -- borsanza.com. For development (we mostly do java and web related development) we tried eclipse, but found netbeans more mature. For graphics (I'm the graphics guy) I'm taking a crash course on gimp (to replace jasc's Paint Shop Pro) and am just becoming productive after two days. - Standardize your installation. We're all using mandrake 8.2 standard install with choice apps thrown over it. We all run an ssh server so when a machine hangs (this is development, after all) to the point that the keyboard no longer works, someone else logs into that machine and kills x. Cool thing =).
- Post all the latest tips, tricks or installs in a visible place. We (the developers) are all in one room, so we just scrawl on the blackboard for everyone to see, but for a bigger company you'll need better organization.
This has been useful to us. They're mostly common sense tips. Hope they help you.
Overcaffeinated. Angry geeks.
You could probably fix this by "quarantining" the affected users. Make sure that access to those data sources is extremely controlled. That way, even before migrating, you know specifically who is using these bad data sources, and you tackle them last, one-at-a-time. They will thank you for it if you give them a good web application instead.
Engineering and the Ultimate
Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
.dlls and then blames Microsoft for the OS being unstable.
We all have our personal tastes. I feel more comfortable on my Linux box than my Win2k box, meaning I'm using almost exclusively my P2-350 instead of my 1GHz + kitchen sink box. I've never had it crash, unlike my Win2K box which crashes regularly, and I can customise it so easily (eg I like the close window widget to be on the left of the title bar so (a) I don't hit it accidentally and (b) it's the icon normally expose in windows down the stack).
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks.
I much prefer Galeon to IE, with tabs and the ability to block images from a source with a single click.
While making the move to the semi-professional desktop, linux became more unstable (I don't know how many times I've grunted after installing yet another 2.4.x kernel)
The solution is perhaps not to keep upgrading to bleeding edge kernels? I wouldn't know where to start upgrading a kernel and don't feel any loss.
and certainly couldn't keep up with the gains made by windows on the user friendly side.
Again personal taste. I find it not very usable, apart from the universal cut and paste (not being able to paste between a KDE and Gnome app really annoys me).
Before playing some video I still have to say a prayer...
Weird, I have the opposite experience. WMP barfs at about half the files I try and play, but mplayer plays them all flawlessly. I can also real-time resize mplayer to any window size I like, which I cannot figure out how to do in WMP.
Right now, I can't keep my development pc running for more than a week because of some application that leaks memory and uses up my entire memory after a few days.
So let's look at the evidence: constant installing/uninstalling of kernals, video keeps falling over, apps leaking memory like a sieve... Sorry but it sounds like you've gone in and screwed up your workstation. Back up your work and reinstall and you should have a rock-solid desktop that plays video far better than your Win box. I mean it's like someone that goes into a Windows box, randomly deletes a load of
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
The "network device" workstation is dead. Sun knows it. Larry Ellison knows it. Everyone who has tried to push this model knows it.
My only advice is not to be in the room when the CEO concludes that the company must go back to PCs.
I made the switch in a small law office a few years ago, before the KDE GUI was as good as it is now. I also learned a lot about how different users handle the transition. As others have mentioned, the cultural problems are far worse than the technological issues. Here is what I learned.
0. Find out what you have valid licenses for, and what you don't. If you don't have a valid license for it, consider the cost of going "legal" and switching over to a Linux-based solution. Finding out what has to go first will make many of the decisions for you. Sad to say, but the license/BSA problem is going to be your biggest.
1. Switch the server over to Linux first. This can be accomplished without the users even knowing about it, and servers and their software are one of the most expensive items anyway.
2. Figure out what Windows desktop functionality that you REALLY, REALLY need, and find Linux equivalents, preferrably ones with Windows counterparts, like Open/Star Office. Note, your users will come in four varieties:
A. Computer illiterate
B. Power Users
C. Normal Users
D. Microsoft Junkies
Believe it or not, the Computer Illiterate users will have the easiest time in the transition. If you set KDE up correctly, they will see an icon, click on it, find their program, and move on. I was truly amazed when I saw this happen in real life. I never got a call from one of the computer illiterate users. Several didn't even notice a change at all. These were the ones I worried most about. I shouldn't have.
The Power Users will have more trouble, but they will overcome their problems (usually without much coaching) and will appreciate Linux when they see what they have to work with. They will like and appreciate the tools, stability, and control that they can exert over their desktops.
The Normal Users will go along, because they are sheep anyway (sorry, but it's true). They may grumble, but they will adapt, especially if they know that it will help the company keep them employed.
The last group, the Microsoft Junkies, are those who fancy themselves as savy, but who are really next-to-illiterate. Unfortunately, these are the people who think the Microsoft way is the only _proper_ way for things to be done, and that any other way just isn't "right." These people will drive you nuts. Incidentally, lumping this group as "Microsofties" is not fair. They would have acted the same way if they were first taught on a MAC. For these people, the first way is the "right" way, regardless of which one is first.
3. Carrots work. As one of the other posters mentioned, start small and let it spread out. People fear the unknown, but if others make the transition, it will alay their fears that a transition is possible in the first place. Secondly, once some have made it, they will have more incentive to do it so as not to be "left behind" or so as not to appear to the boss to be inadequate, stupid, or not accommodating to the company.
Better yet, be prepared to give more privleges or goodies to those who migrate to Linux. This is even more incentive for the migration. If users feel that they will get more out of it (that they "get something") they will be more inclinded to accept the transition. Linux has plenty of freebies that can entice users, such as games and such that don't come out of the box with Windows.
4. Sticks work too. This is a harsh tactic, but from a business standpoint, it cannot be refuted and it will work. Tally up the costs of keeping Windows and attendant MS software (i.e., what it will take to get/keep legal and pay for the maintenance fees and attendant hardware upgrades). Tell the users that they can keep Windows if they offer to pay the difference in costs to the company (out of their paychecks). The company is making a perfectly good offer to support their work (for free) if they transition. Otherwise, they pay the difference. Once the employee sees the cost differential, and they know that they have to pay for Windows, then almost all of them will get on the Linux bandwagon. Those that don't, well, they pay and it is their responsibility to get/stay legal. Your company is still on the hook, but they can force the users to supply the correct documentation. Note, even if they do stick with Windows/Office, your company will transition to better (non-MS) file formats for internal documents, and cause the reluctant workers to do more in order to keep their work viewable by the rest of the company. This is akin to making smokers go outside to puff away.
Good Luck!
Upgrade everyone to Linux and have 1 or 2 "Terminal Servers" with NT or 2000. Each user could have a copy of the Citrix client on Linux. If they ever get a document they can't convert or in a pinch they need to do something in a windows environment they can login to the TS and do their business. (I say this not noing the cost of such a setup -- but we have a TS farm at work and it works great when we need to test our webapps on IE for the legions of MS clones out there.)
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
That's a clever idea. Just tell the accountants to, and I quote, "make more money." I bet the accountants had never thought of that. Never mind that the economy is sluggish, and that Microsoft is doubling the cost of software for most small businesses. We'll just pass around a memo telling the employees to "make more money" and that will solve the problem.
You can almost guarantee that the largest expense in a business of this size is labor, and so if it isn't possible to magic up some "more money" then someone will likely lose their job. In a small company, where everyone knows everyone else, this is generally considered a bad thing.
If, on the other hand, the company can instead simply economize on their software purchases, they not only get to retain their valuable employee, but they free themselves from Microsoft's upgrade treadmill.
Saving money is always easier than making it.
Why would you want to limit yourself like that?
I'm doing something like this on win2k and it does not co-operate. I'm using GIMP, Mozilla and Putty to make my life a little easier in the Serfdom. The aps don't run as well under win2k as they do under linux and I suspect M$ messes with them. Gimp crashes often, and the M$IE only corporate crap does not co-operate with Mozilla at all. Hell, Accrobat is even getting messed with. It has had print methods switched under it several times it is forced to wait about two minutes before the OS responds to print requests. What you end up with is all the M$ aps looking good and users blaming their problems on the new software instead of the old junk that has always sucked.
Worse, your users will not have alternate methods of getting things done. You can't set up shell scripts and what not to replace thier horrid VBA and Macro trash. They have figured out the best way to get things done with the limited tools M$ has given them. If you take these tools away without giving them better alternatives, they will not be happy.
Try setting a few of your users free for a while first. Get a group of volunteers that are willing to work with TWO computers on their desks to help you out. The usual "power users" will be there, and most of them are sick of M$ shit. Give them some nice shiny new Linux boxes and let them show you the way. I know that I would be doing that if our IT group did not forbid anthing but their M$ cruft on the network.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
I've been playing around with Linux as a desktop machine at home, mostly because I want to learn Linux as a server tool. For that purpose, Linux is great because, on the desktop, so many things don't work that it is forcing me to learn the sytem.
Among the most annoying problems, so far:
A lack of a one-touch installation tool.
No built in java support in browsers.
KDE is now unusuable becuase the "kicker" panel has a bug that makes it unusable, and consumes all cpu cycles to boot.
Telnet won't work properly. I have to connect to the NYPL's telnet at nyplgate.nypl.org quite frequently. Unlike Windows, Linux's telnet won't display the screens properly and frequently hangs.
Connecting via ADSL is quirky.
Lack of high-end products like Adobe Photoshop, Quicken, Turbo Tax.
These are just a few of the lovely issues I am having. In my case, it is not so bad as it forces me to get more into the guts of my system, which is my main goal. Unfortunately, I still will need to depend on my windows machine for productive work.
Don't believe the hype. Linux is not ready for the desktop. Windows is worth the extra $50-$200 per desktop alone if nothing less than to avoid the headache factor.
And BTW, I would love for some advice on all the problems I am having.
evanchik.net
I'm not sure why everyone does not make anonymous tips to the BSA all the time. Let's face it, no one can win a BSA audit. M$ has made it impossible to control what software gets installed. Their ever shifting license practices require an army of accountants and lawers to keep track of. Someone is going to have a copy of Paint Shop Pro on day 300 of it's 30 day free trial, and you are toast. If every company were to anonymously tip the BSA off and log the tips, the BSA would be unable to respond and their inaction can be taken as copyright and tradmark abandonment. In anycase, the true cost of ownership of non free sofware would become apparent.
I am not a lawyer, I have morals. Most people just think I'm insane.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Well, I have > 50 karma, have been here > 2 years, and am a MCSE who runs a windows shop. Go figure. I am a advanced bsd newbie who uses bsd for things like syslog, mrtg, firewalls, tftp,ntp, etc.
Anyhow, a lot of the anti MS stuff here is lame because it is old and just not true. Complaining about NT/2k/xp's stability is lame because stability isn't a problem. Complaining that you need to reboot a NT 4 box to do anything *is* valid. Complaining that you have to reboot a nt/2k/xp box when you apply a web broswer patch *is* valid.
Some of the complaints about OSS software are valid - tons of people are telling the guy to install openoffice, but from reading the comments, it sounds like only about 20% have. So who can really say how well it will read ms office files? OSS still has issues - it needs to support all the comoon media functions out of the box to make casual users feel comfortable. Not being able to render pages properly, open a complex excel doc or open windows media files will just confirm their suspicions that their new os is just a silly management trick to save a few bucks.
ostiguy
Quite frankly, you have to give some credit to MS. They've improved their efforts on the boards. It used to be pretty easy to spot, but it's getting tougher...
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
As for the local media, they could care less. You will be lucky to get a page 31B description if your building burns down. Software licenses? Are you kidding? These are the same apes that take BSA advert money and push out M$ propaganda about "computer" mail viruses, software and music "piracy" and all that. Chances are, they will cheer your demise. Notice how few "news" institutions have picked up the story of BSA extorting hundreds of thousands of dollars from PUBLIC SCHOOLS nationwide!
Your better option is to just purge the M$ BS and be done with it. Gasp! Email, text editing, type setting, spread sheets and all that does work better without Bill Gate's blessing.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
IMHO, the wizards hide what is really going on and in doing so remove the opportunity for the user to reall understand what the OS is doing. Especially when you have to learn how the wizards work from distro to distro.
For the end user, wizards are fine, but should deal with the most critical data only and not get into the minutia when possible.
One last point, I've heard people saying that one should keep biz users on Windows. I have a friend in finance (some options stuff that I don't really understand). All of the guys in his office use Sparc stations because the algorithms they run are very math intensive and Windows on Intel won't cut it. I have NO IDEA if they've tried Linux or BSD. The point is that average users ABSOLUTELY can use those "nasty, hard *nix systems". End users really aren't THAT dumb...
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
http://people.trustcommerce.com/~adam/office.ht
http://desktoplinux.com/articles/AT9664091996.html
We've got a TOTAL M$ office here. We're talking Win2K on all the servers and desktops, Exchange 5.5, SQL 7, ISA, Citrix, Visual Studio Apps (in VB) everywhere, integrated with VBA in Word documents, Office automation, nothing but MCSE's and MCSD's on staff. How ever do we get out of it?
;-)
Step one is become really comfy with Linux, you haven't already done so. Heck, get Linux for Dummies if you gotta; or people here can suggest some good newbie books.
Step 2, build a free workstation, load up Star Office and Netscape, and see how much of your old stuff will run.
Step 3, build a free server, and see how much of your old server functions you can get to run.
Step 4 - here's the sneaky part: After steps #1 - 3 you'll know what migrates and what doesn't. Instead of jumping through hoops to migrate everything - start phasing out everything which won't migrate anytime soon. Don't put any more work into other than keeping it reasonably alive. Or even purposely sabatoge it every week or so if you're pressed for time
And instead of trying to find a Guinea Pig to run a whole Linux workstation - start installing cross platform applications on people's Windows workstations. A good start is to roll out Netscape or another email program "to protect the company against all those Outlook viruses". Then just keep introducing more and more cross platform apps on peoples desktops - not instead of, but in addition to M$Office. Make a point of sending around important documents which will open in these programs by default.
The idea of course is to slowly build up your users familiarity with apps which run on Linux, so that when you've weeded out all the stuff that can't be moved over - they'll barely notice it when you switch the underlying operating system. The main thing is to try it as soon as possible, so that you don't make more work for yourself by putting development time into projects or features which won't move over easily. Make sure you're staff *neglects* those things, while supporting the he11 out of the ones you can move over. Do the simplest ones first - if there's a really crucial Windows only feature you need - odds are there will be plenty of folks working on a way to migrate it to Linux while you're moving over the easy stuff. And figuring out what can be migrated on the servers, and what "isn't really needed anyway".
Naturally there are some things which aren't going to be ready to move to Linux by the time you are - but if you've played your cards right (oh it's just *such* an instable product - we can't seem to get it working right); your staff will have ceased relying on those products by the time you take them away for good.
And it never hurts to relay panic-mongering information about Windows security holes, privacy breaches, pending price increases, and BSA audit horror stories to the appropriate channels. Or to take on yourself to convert vital documents to formats only open software can read. Believe me, Microsoft wouldn't hesistate to do it you...
Oh wouldn't it be nice if Red Hat and Netscape release a Linux "assimilation" package, that would just convert a whole M$ network to Free Software through a nice little Tux Wizard interface? Mmmmm, I'll bet they could recoup their costs just by offering same day delivery of the discs to people on the BSA's mailing list.
Grr i hate fucking scoop sometimes.. as I was saying the BSA has no athority to enter your business, unless they have the US marshals with them and a search warrent. i would not worry about the BSA.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
Let them play with / evaluate it inside the familiar Windoze evironment.
Tell them that as soon as they are happy to use the Linux environment all the time the company will get rid of the Windows stuff and share the savings made 50 / 50 with the staff.
Tell them the truth that it's an intelligent career move too.
Hmmm. I like Windows XP. ... Why can't I be allowed to say this without:
a) Being told that Linux is better on the desktop (it isn't, for me at least)
b) Being accused of being a Microsoft corporate junky (I'm not, at least not when I last checked)
Jeese, perhaps because you are voicing your opinion on a pro-linux site. It truly seems inane to me to expect anything other than a pro-linux response here.
Yes this site is also about technology, innovations, and Cowboys, but expect zealots (and many regular users) to be a little tender when inadequacies in their OS of choice are uncovered.
Might I recommend here [therockalltimes.co.uk] as a good place to start.
Thanks, this site is hilarious.
My friend called Microsoft for help with their licensee problems, in a hope to get some discount, because he heard an MCSE said Microsoft always give favours to valued customers.
Microsoft was so kind as to send an external auditor BSA to help with their licensing problem.
Later Microsoft sent an invoice to offer to help them waiving the legal liability for using unlicensed software that external auditor found out, if he agreed to sign a 5-year purchase contract.
Well, at least Microsoft had given audit for free....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but since when are Windows and Office upgrades required? AFAIK, it's perfectly OK to still be using Windows NT and Office 97, as long as you paid for it in the first place.
The key is teaching people why closed formats (MS Office) and proprietary API's and finally closed source is not good for humanity in general. Once people really see why, they will be willing to migrate to open source solutions.
We have found in the office here, that new employees are a little shocked when they learn that they must use "linux" with "openoffice", because most of them have never touched anything besides microsoft windows. BUT, after a couple weeks with some help from other users, they get comfortable and very productive.
We share offices with one of our suppliers (this is in China), and they have about 8 Windows boxes. I just chuckled when the Kletz virus hit not long ago. Their entire network was infected and totally messed up. We were just whirring away working as normal, although we all had sore right hands from hitting the delete button for Kletz emails all day!
Everytime we set up a new box, I just smile when I think off all the money we are saving. I just don't understand why some of the largest companies in the world (including some of our customers) are willing to put thier most valuble information in proprietary format files (MS Office). Are the guys at the top REALLY that blind?
We have four developers now, and these are the guys that I am having the hardest time with converting over to linux. I am still trying to figure out why, and how to convert them........
Real men don't need signitures!!!
1) Start with the support staff.
a. Are they adequitely trained to support Linux/FreeBSD/Other OS?
b. Are there enough staff for the task?
2) Next migrate from the top.
a. If upper management is switched over the rest will follow.
b. Most staff will use what ever is well supported.
c. Technical people will be easier to switch.
Be sure that the users understand the value proposition. (Whats in it for the user?)
a. Allow for flexibility in user preferences.
b. Excelent support (coworkers used to be supportised when I got Linux answers faster off the net than they got answers that they already paid for).
c. lower cost and more features (be sure that you understnad what features that people need).
4) When upper management and engieers have been swithced over and and adequite education period has been used you can migrate the remaining staff.
a. Most people never install any software in a work environment.
b. If they see success with upper management and understand the reasons (and buy into it) the mighration can proceed.
Regards
Tony Dean
tdean@du.edu
3)
Computer "enthusiasts" love to tinker with their toys. The rest of the business world hates the demands computers and software make on their valuable time and attention. We often label them "lusers" for the unpardonable crime of being more interested in running the economy than in endlessly tinkering with our favorite toys.
Right or wrong, that's how they feel and it's worth a few hundred extra dollars per person in software purchase price to avoid adding more "computer stuff" to the things most professionals have to pay attention to.
Most companies will gladly pay the MS tax if the alternative is today's Linux. Why would they subject their employees to a steep learning curve leading to significantly reduced functionality (as a business client machine) for the sake of a few hundred dollars per person?
They're almost all hoping, though, that someone else will go first and make Linux such a great business platform for non-computer types that it will be well worth the learning curve for the average business desktop/laptop user. Increased functionality would almost have to mean more savvy at figuring out what you want to accomplish with less required input from you. (Hardly the state of today's Linux, which prides itself on being amazingly customizable if you have the time, interest, and expertise to spend working on it.)
At that point, saying goodbye to MS will just be frosting on the cake, but until then most businesses will say, "you go first".
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
what you see is what you get = what you see is all you get
I like that. I think it condenses my unspoken interior idea of what accounts to 50% of the tasks that need to be done (well and once and forever and without relearning the "GUI" interface everytime bill feels like).
unfinished: (adj.)
If Konqueror or any other X-Windows application goes crazy, the easiest way to kill it is to hit Ctrl-Alt-Escape. The cursor changes to a skull and cross-bones, because XKill is now running. Click on any window of the crazy application and it will DIE!!! There, that's a lot simpler and more intuitive than Ctrl-Alt-Delete and working out which of the obscure program filenames corresponds to the program that's gone wrong. Point and click :-)
hmmm....
interesting.
No, I tried most of the suggestions regarding adsl and they didn't seem to do the trick. Well, I tried most of them. Getting a script to work at startup is currently beyond my ability.
I wish that I could get this thing to work as well as windows. I really do. But I can't. Most of it is probably due to my own incompetence. That much is granted.
SO what does that make you? A linux drone?
I can get windows to work "out of the box". I can't do that with linux. I know, I know, I should join some user's group and take some compsci courses.
I would like there to be an alternative to windows. My brief and shallow experience has been unsatisfactory in finding that. It's not a big deal. I expect it to get better.
One thing I have noticed is that these linux desktops. like gnome and kde, really seem to suffer from even worse "feature-bloat" than windows. Again, just my opinion.
Hey, if microsoft wants to throw a few bucks my way for guerrilla marketing purposes, I would probably not say no, if they paid me enough. But what I'm posting are my opinions and experiences.
For instance, when I tried doing the su trick, it didn't work. What's funny is, even logged in as root, I can only open adsl in gnome, not kde.
I'm working in gnome right now because kde is trashed, and I can't fix it and looking at newsgroups all I see is a bunch of posts saying "yeah there's a problem."
Hmmm.... maybe I am a drone. I'm certainly a neophyte when it comes to amateur (and I mean that in the best sense) computing.
But hey, tell me this, when you telnet into nyplgate.nypl.org, are there any screens that get stuck for you? They do for me and they don't in windows and it is particularly frustrating because I figured linux should be a champ when it came to text-based apps.
Would I like everything to work just right? Yes.
Would I like it to be easy? yes. Has it been so far? No. It has been a pain in the ass, but a learning experience.
All of my problems so far have shown me that the biggest weakness with linux, and open-source in general, is a question of "quality assurance". And that makes sense. QA is a dull boring busineess that people only do if they are paid to do it.
I guess that I've ranted enough. It's nice to know there's a fan out there looking over past posts.
Peace,
Michel Evanchik
evanchik.net
Start emailing stuff as OpenOffice attachments.
Remember how annoyed you get every time you get a Word doc from someone, and you need to switch to Windows for opening that doc?
Make a friendly "quasi-revenge" with OpenOffice attachments. But unlike Word docs, the receiver can open the documents in any operating system, and the application doesn't even cost anything for him or her. There is no excuse.
After the installation, the receiver has excellent office tools which he or she can use freely without MS Tax, and can send everyone documents in *really* universal open format, unlike Word.
Yes, OpenOffice can be viral.
See, here is what happens.
Instead of wasting vast quantities of money upgrading to new MS software when you have legitimately licensed older versions, you conduct your own thorough audit. Make sure that for every PC in your company, you can demonstrate that you have a licence for the OS, office suite, and any other major business apps as required. If you've only got 50 people in the company, this audit shouldn't take more than a week or so of your IT manager's time. That costs considerably less than pandering to MS, and it's a one-off.
I'm sure Microsoft would love to tell you that. Show me the court case.
Well, if your IT manager is competent, you will have pristine records of pretty much everything. Even if not, finding out shouldn't be hard. Just make sure everyone who's installed their own rubbish (which is against a formal company policy anyway, right?) tells you about it, and removes it if it's not legal.
Now, if the BSA come knocking, tell them where to go. Give them a polite but firm statement that you believe you are entirely legal in your licensing, sent by your lawyers.
If the BSA still want to audit you, speak to your lawyers again. See how you can get them to pay the bill for your lost time. Don't forget to mention your new hourly rate of $1000/hour/employee, starting with the guy who's going to shadow them day and night and watch exactly what they're looking at<esc>show them around.
Also speak to the lawyers and see if you can insist that the BSA auditors sign a massively restricting non-disclosure agreement before entering. Something to the effect that if they say anything to anyone about anything they've seen other than concrete evidence of a breach of licensing they said they were looking for before they went in then they will be wholly liable for any damages to your company, its staff, its clients and any other interested parties. (IANAL, obviously get the pro's to write it, but you get the idea.)
If the BSA try to hardball you by going through the courts, then I'd hope most courts would accept the need for a NDA before an audit for the specific purpose of checking your software, and the fact that if your business is found not guilty of any wrongdoing then you will have lost a lot of money due to the inconvenience. I'll say it again: speak to your lawyers about countersuing to recover as much as you can.
Just because the BSA is big, doesn't mean it automatically wins. That's why we have legal systems, y'know. Although a good lawyer will certainly interpret the law in his favour, even the best lawyer can't prove that 2+2=5 in the fact of well-argued opposition. Some things are just too obvious, and if your guys stand up and say "no evidence" or "no case to answer" every time their guys have finished, it's a hassle, but you should be in no real danger.
Who knows, if they know they've got jack on you, and you call them on it, a small company might just get them to back off rather than risk the expense/bad PR anyway. It's far more likely that a small, well-managed company who's challenging them will have everything in order, and in that case, all they can do is lose money by fighting on.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
The average Windows user probably doesn't know either what a C drive is or how to change their background anyway. Even if they do, it's probably not because of any training they received, it's because they asked their mate thinking it was a cool trick, and the knowledge spread.
If you're talking about moving a company over, make sure they know how to fire up the word processor and write their basic letters. Then make sure someone genuinely knowledgable is always available over the first few weeks, to answer questions like "How do I change my background?" or "How do I change the font?" if your users haven't picked this up from initial training.
Everyone will moan and grumble at first, because they'll be experiencing something new. In time, if your new solution is any good, they'll get used to it and stop seeing the downside all the time. This is inevitable, you just have to help them through the transition period.
BTW, you might want to have your support people set up a nice, central Q&A, and make sure everyone knows where to find it and how to use it. Then, when the first guy asks how to set his wallpaper, you tell him, and add it to the Q&A. Everyone else can now see it, too, with minimal drain on your support staff's time.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Well, what P2P apps do you need? A Gnutella client is pretty much the same whatever you use. Audiogalaxy works just great too.
In any case, you shouldn't be letting them run P2P sharing at work - if they get busted for pirate videos then most likely you will get it up the arse too...
Jamie Zawinski's xscreensaver Matrix module absolutely hammers anything like it I've seen under Windows.
The one Windows screensaver I would like to see ported to X is Johnny Castaway. It wouldn't hurt if everyone (that means you) asked or volunteered.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
It depends. Most users where I worked at Wolfram Research loved the web applications. Also, you assume that the deployment issues only affect the group doing the deploying. Deployment issues also affect the users, since it's their app that
they need to work on, it's their box you have to upgrade Access on, etc.
There are some things that web apps work poorly for because of the limitations of HTML widgets. However, not as many as people would have you think.
Engineering and the Ultimate