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Migrating Your Office from Windows to Linux?
bastiji asks: "I work at a mid-sized company, around 50 people and 90% M$ shop (10% being the Sun server doing our backups). Most of my users are using Office 85% of the time with some specialized apps thrown in for good measure. With the upcoming licensing changes from M$ my finance guys are worried about increased spending on even the software that we already own. I've been to told to look for alternatives and I'm asking for your help. How does one begin to do migration from a totally dependent M$ shop to the least expensive options. Are there any examples for mid-sized firms taking this route and any public examples of cost-savings?"
I expect that like Linux at ISPs this is sneaking up on everyone, but may be difficult to find companies publicly willing to risk Microsoft wrath by being open about it.
________________________________________ History Must Not Fall Into The Wrong Hands ___________________________________
Give the techies the linux boxes and the business guys keep windows. Always keep window's boxes, cause customers will always send documents and reports in some microsoft format, so make it available.
Plus, changing business guys over to linux is no easy task.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Standard functionality ( such as office, email ) you can do, but trying to find a replacement for something 'specilaized' wont be easy.. and forget wine running something 'wierd' ( at least today ).
Perhaps use linux on desktop + metaframe
( plugin for citrix works great on linux ) for those apps you just *cant* replace...
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Paper, pencils, crayons for those dazzling multi-color pie charts, in/out trays, and paper clips. No licensing fees, no support needs, no viruses. What could be better?
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Open office is shaping up nicely and has the ability to import everybodys office doc's. As for the custom apps, I would recommend webification for most of them, or a nice compile against wine librarys. With the samba project around your shouldn't be forced to do everything at once.
jeremy
But a good start might be switching from MS Office to Star Office. At only $34.99 per copy, it's a whole lot cheaper than MS Office.
I am the evil aardvark!
Don't upgrade. Office 97/2000 will work fine for the next few years. At that time, your financial circumstances may be different or Linux may have even closed the gap some more making it a more viable alternative. Who knows, maybe a miracle will happen and M$ will develop Office for Linux (who's laughing now?)
I'd suggest having the users (or leads or whatever) try the windows version of star office. Make sure they can do what they need to do, before you switch them. Otherwise you'll be forced to switch back, and they'll have a negative view of Linux.
:)
Also make a list (you can't plan something like this too much) of all the apps they're using, and what features they're using, and make sure you can provide all of those features before you switch.
And put lots of pictures of Tux around the place. His cute smile will calm everyone's fears.
Just use either Star Office or Open Office for Windows. It's cheap, easy, and doesn't require you to spend a lot of time setting up a Linux shop. Furthermore, if you've already bought licenses for whatever version of Office, just keep using it and don't bother to upgrade unless there's some feature you really need.
I guess the other thing you need to ask yourself, is what are you qualified to support, and what kind of support overhead would be required by changing? Keep your employer's best interests in mind and only make an OS change if there is a compelling reason to do so.
bance.net
I have been Running Open Office for several weeks now and am very happy.. It does a great job of opening most MS files.. It includes all the basic tools you need.. Word Processor, Spreadsheet and Presentation software.. I would probably recommend you stay on windows for your OS.. Sure Linux is FREE but it will only compound the learning curve of your users.. (Don't flame me, I Love Linux but for typical windows users its too much too fast.) I would also recommend you have at leaset one current copy of MS office incase Open Office can not open or convert an important document. If you use alot of Macros in any of your office documents you will probably have to redo them in Open Office..
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
Have your finance people taken into account that the majority of the employees know Microsoft products fairly well and would have to be retrained for such a migration. The problem getting Linux or other OSS into the office isn't cost or a technical issue. Its a people issue, plain and simple people know MS Products, they've been using them for years. A move to a completely different operating system and business suit will leave the employees feeling abandoned and useless and will more than likely hurt productivity.
Something to consider. This is probably the biggest reason that OSS has had such a hard time infiltrating the office.
scott
Are you looking to get away from M$ entirely, or just Office because of its hideous licensing scheme?
You're in for a real treat if you're going to try and get an alternative OS going in an environment that's not filled with techies....most of these people took years just to "learn" Windows, Linux (or whatever) is going to be a nightmare for them.
Maybe you should just look into a different office suite.
As a side note, it really bites my ass that M$ is trying to leverage companies into paying more money because of the fear of having to switch to new apps that possibly might be incompatible with other companies' documents. Yet another reason proprietary technology sucks. There needs to be an industry-wide switch to open document formats....RTF and whatever the spreadsheet and presentation software equivalents might be.
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If I were doing this I would create a "I want that" sort of environment. What I mean is pick a Linux distro that has a lot of eye candy and cool features, ala SuSE or Mandrake, and give it to some of your more advanced users, those willing to experiment a little bit. Let them play around with it, and give them some freedom to customize as much as they want. Once they start to really make the GUI look nice, and playing with some of the stuff that is just not available with out of the box Windows/Office they will start to attract other users. Have them tell the rest of the staff that this is the "future" and they are beta testing for the optimal environment. It wouldn't hurt if you got them new machine, or monitors, give a users some incentive to learn and use Linux.
With KDE 3 it's really not that hard to learn the OS, how many Windows users use a CMD shell, the same will be true for the average run of the mill Linux user if the GUI is setup right. I have been using KDE3 for a while now and it is at least as easy if not easier than Windows to do just about anything.
If you allow fairly unrestricted Internet access I would make sure that all of the multimedia apps are working correctly, and that flash is working as well. These are big things for the weenies, they want the bells and whistles that Windows provides, and with a good distro they're all there, but they may need some tweaking to get them running flawlessly.
Just my $0.02, but that is what I would do.
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
Plan a slow transition. Microsoft is going to hit you with a deadline to buy into their subscription system. The deadline is that if you don't buy in by then, you have to pay full price for upgrades in the future. But you can ignore that since you'll be transitioning away from Microsoft instead of upgrading.
If you're lucky, your custom apps will run with Wine or can even be compiled with winelib to be native on Linux, even if they are a pain to port to real Linux apps.
If you find you can't effectively transition your apps, you can stick with Windows, but drop Office in favor of Star/Open Office. Even if you get stuck paying more for OS licensing, you'll save a huge bundle on the other licenses. If you do that, just be sure you're very careful with not letting unlicensed copies of MS Office onto your systems, or you'll be in big trouble if a BSA audit comes along.
The company I work for will be converting the entire backend to Sun Microsystems machines. While working with the Sun engineers I asked about alternatives to M$ as well, and it turns out that moving off M$ to a Sun thin client was easier than I had expected. We have 110 users and may look at using the Sun iplanet app server to administer our in house apps through an intranet portal to the desktop.
The sum of our knowledge today becomes the reference point of our ignorance tomorrow.
Based on the reports coming out of Philadelphia schools if you are considering moving from Microsoft to Linux they may think it's time to do an internal audit of your machines to make sure that you have a license for every box.
We had to destroy the sig to save the sig.
In my experience, it's best to replace your servers with Linux, particularly because end-users tend to be more resistant to change concerning their day-to-day activities. If you're using Windows NT for file and print sharing, then you can easily replace those with Linux and Samba. The user's won't care what the server OS is so long as they have access to their files and printers. Most of your cash outflow can be stopped here. Of course, if you have specialized apps that require MS software (ASP scripts), then you'll need to maintain those, but for pure file and print sharing, you can easily go the Linux/Samba route.
For internet services, you're set. Linux can do everything Windows can and more. For SQL services, you can migrate data from MS SQL to any myriad of free SQL servers available from Linux. Just make sure that your SQL statements are ANSI compliant.
You'll just have to handle these on a case-by-case basis.
For the end users, consider OpenOffice as a replacement for MS Office. There are plenty of good browsers for Linux (Mozilla and Opera) that can replace IE. Eventually, you can get users used to using Linux with KDE/GNOME and still give them the functionality they need.
One caveat: in my experience, leave the accountants alone. They tend to be moody, set in their ways, and can become quite a strain on your happiness if you try to mess with their routines.
The only thing I can offer you advice on are your custom apps. For those you can either just live with the fact that you need MS for them, try to find Open Source alternatives, or if written in-house, consider porting.
I hope this helps you a tiny bit. Best of luck!
you don't have to outrun the bear, just the slowest person in your group.
I would suggest that you proceed slowly. Linux doesn't have the mature GUI that Windows offers and it takes some getting used to. Most non-technical people are inherently disturbed by change - they fear change. My current employer is considering this. We have organized groups by job function. The admin assistants will be going first since word processing, email, etc. are fairly robust for Linux. I suggest that you look at Ximian.com and their Evolution product, namely for the email client. I also suggest AbiWord as a good "Word" replacement. The whole office suite is relatively simple to replace.
Our developers and IT staff, which make a large part of our company, are having difficulty since we use many of those "specalized applications" that you were referring to. We have had some luck with WINE. You might also want to check out Lindows. VMWare is another option, but that still requires a Windows license - however - it wil allow you to run what just became your legacy apps until you can migrate off them as well.
HDGary secures my bank
... is the hard and brutal way. Buy some easy Linux distros (Mandrake or perhaps RedHat) then send all employees away to learn about using Linux. If they are depending on the haunting .doc format run Office through Wine. The special windows software should either be run through Wine or in an emulator such as VMware (although this would require a separate Windows license.) Get some geeks/gurus to work on making Wine working near perfect.
Whatever you chose professional training and a support deal with the distro manufacturer.
Look a monkey!
I suggest moving your server to an Intel 386DX/33 with at LEAST 16 mb of RAM. That should have no problem running a pre-1997 version of Linux. For Internet connectivity, you can get a 56k modem very cheaply from Best Buy. You should be able to lease a 24 hour 56k baud line from Earthlink at about $60 a month. This will be much cheaper than the costly T1 you have now. Move the clients to VT320s. You should be able to find a few terminal servers at Salvation Army, or perhaps K-mart. As for Office Software, hand out LaTeX manuals and have your users use vi for inputting, and then they can run LaTeX for the nice output. This should save on licensing costs on the server/clients, and a VT320 is a lot easier to maintain than a full PC. Instead of Outlook, teach your users how to use mailx. Instead of IE, give them a few lessons in lynx. You might want to limit the amount of users that you let surf the web concurrently, because with 16mb of RAM, we don't want the server thrashing too hard. Backups should be no problem. You should be able to fit all of the server's data files onto a zipdisk, which you can connect through the parallel port on the PC. Also, junk all your old HP LaserJets and pick up some old DEC LP printers. They can do quite a few pages an hour, as long as you don't mind the noise. If you implement my plan, I bet your users will be smiling all day!
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
It's good to plan ahead and see where you have to go, but there's just no reason to push ahead when your current machines and software can probably solider on for a good number of years to come.. depending on how old your stuff currently is that is.
It does seem like it should be that simple but you neglect the existence of the BSA audit. If you go that route you can expect to hear from the BSA before too long offering an amnesty if you buy the latest versions of the software. If you don't, of course, they'll take you to court and they'll get you for that one or two pieces of software you didn't license. Every company has one or two pieces of software they didn't license. That's all they need to get you for the software costs and legal fees. Fun, non?
My suggestion is that if you choose not to go the Microsoft route make a point of either:
1) purging every vestige of microsoft's sofware from your office
2) making sure everything is in pristine order for when the BSA comes along
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If you want to retain compatibility, you could try CrossOver Office from Code Weavers?. It's expensive, but an option.
Micro$oft has way too much dominance in the business world when it comes to office applications. This is why I hope Lindows is able to proceed into development and future release onto desktops. That way, we can still run what I believe to be one of the best word-processing programs on the planet, yet still run an operating system that is more stable than Windows (and not overly priced).
First off, keep the desktops running Windows, except for those technically savvy individuals who are already comfortable with Linux as their primary desktop (not many, if at all). If I were in your situation, I'd migrate the servers that you can to Linux/BSD, and keep the desktops as-is. This will remove the need for connection licenses, and still give the friendly GUI that people are used to. You can do magical things with Samba for filesharing.
Dont upgrade your desktop software to the latest and greatest M$ product (XP?). If anything, put OpenOffice on the desktops and see if the users like it.
I have been using it and it is simply great. Absolutely better than StarOffice and a fraction of the MS Office cost.
Give me your business name and location. I will call the BSA to perform a free audit of your company. I am sure after the friendly BSA auditors finish, your boss will see the reduction of cost moving to Linux will be. Don't worry about paying my consultancy fee for assisting you in this matter, I am sure the BSA will kick back some bucks to me because, without a doubt, your finance guys forgot to pay for every license for every software package on your company's computers.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
I've been "promoted" to part-time all around computer/network problem solver/creator, for a small private high school. We are currently using Novell for fileserving, and win '98 for users, aside from a small 15 station MAC lab.
I've been deliberating how to change over to Linux and the respective applications that can be used to teach application use, such as MS's OFFICE suite. Abiword and gnumeric have been suggested, but what about powerpoint/publisher/access equivelants?
keeping in mind that the environment is being used to teach 13-17 year-olds, does anyone have any suggestions?
"Just Smile and Nod." --Huck
At this point you really don't .. because most of your employees also use Windows at home ...
.. as well as simple things like fonts not displaying properly .. websites not working properly (ie. streaming win media) (yes we know about crossover but BUYING a program to run FREE windows programs seems wrong) .. file system structure .. and believe it or not the 'ugly' interface was mentioned quite a few times. Yes GNOME looks nice - but its nowhere near as polished as Windows or Aqua ..
As an experiment some of our more computer literate employees switched to Linux - but in the end had to switch back due to a plethora of small but annoying problems.
These included opening files sent via email
I would call this a small company, but that actually makes the proposition easier.
First, evaluate the alternatives. What applications can be replaced with Linux equivalents and which can't. For the ones that can't, would it be cost-effective to consider limited licensing for those apps and running them from a Windows terminal service with Citrix Metaframe installed? Or would it be cheaper to by VMWare licenses for those users who absolutely have to run some esoteric Windows app.
When the alternatives have been considered, propose a pilot targetting a limited group of users to see whether the can continue their normal work routine on the new platform.
These are all starting points. The tough one is what to do about apps that only exist on Windows and are critical to the job the person is doing.
-David
* As is generally the case, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
I work for a large transportation airline. We are a large Sun shop. We are currently looking at switching over to Sun Office 6.0. Our software costs shold be dramatically reduced while maintaining MS office "compatibility". The compatibility issues seem to be the biggest factors we are addressing at this time.
------
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Just as I get cywin and various LAMP ports to Win32 purring like a kitten, my boss say I can switch to a Ximian desktop any time I want. Oh, freedom's torment!
--- When I grow up, I want to be a legislator of scientific laws.
You could always hire me to help. Right now I'm cheap, easy, and willing to relocate. :)
you don't have to outrun the bear, just the slowest person in your group.
It may seem like a duanting task, but with proper planning, research, and development it can be done.We just finished a Windows to Linux migration, and one thing is watching and listening to users,(they yell the loudest), will make the migration painless as possible. Open Office, Win4lin, and Samba are more than enough to ease any transition. Plan in steps and create a strategy to acheive the goal. Good Luck, hang in there, keep at it the migration will happen.
JMH
I work for a small company (4 people) and MS called us to try and get us to subscribe to their maintenance program. The first thing they said was "MS Project 2002 is going to be 4 times the cost of Project 2000 unless we got on the upgrade package".
Star Office? AppleWorks. The MS Office importer actually works on that one AND it's cross-platform.
The "specialized apps" are where it really makes the difference, unfortunately. For example, if you're doing mechanical engineering, there's nothing out there like Pro/ENGINEER for linux (That I know of...). Also, stupid little things like shipping and receiving needing to use UPS software and accounting using Peachtree or Quickbooks. There's not a lot of professional-level software like this out there for Linux. Don't get me wrong - there's a lot of stuff - I run it exclusively, but I have to reboot to use Pro/E.
Nonperiodic Central Trajectory
Google found a great article called Windows to Linux Migration Case Histories
all you need to, with the stuff you already have.
So if you've got 50 people there at the moment you've probably got a few servers for things like network sharing, and Exchange for email, right?
My advice would be to switch the servers over and then do the clients - installing Debian or something similar to become the companies NT login system will give you an immediate saving in terms of NT server licenses. (Or 200).
Once that's done - and it's been demonstrated that it's stable I'd attack the Exchange system, and setup a box to be the companies IMAP/POP3/NNTP server.
Basically I would want to switch the servers first - and then the clients. Mostly because that should be transparent to the clients, and I expect you'll always have to leave a couple of Windows clients around.
Once you've started the switch you can gruadually make things more functional by doing things like introducing a Squid cache for the company, or something similar.
I hope that helps a little..
Keep the users on windows for now.
StarOffice 6.0 (get the supported version from Sun) $76.95/user
Mozilla 1.0 or Netscape 6.2.3 (1.0 will be out end of month)
SunONE Calendar Server 5.1 (formerly iPlanet, formerly Netscape) web interface, email integration $30/user
Cyrus IMAP 2.x (available with most distros)
OpenLDAP 2.0.xx (available with most distros also needed for the Calender Server)
pam_ldap (available with most distros)
Your fave distro with a recent version of Samba
Use the LDAP server for centralized user management, the Samba server for file sharing and authentication for the Windows boxes. The Calendar Server + Cyrus + OpenLDAP should make a nifty Exchange Server Replacement.Of course, don't forget Sendmail, which has some nifty integration with LDAP too.
All relavent documentation for doing this should be available on the web, mailing list archives and such.
You will need a Sparc, HP-UX or WinNT 4.0 box for the Calendar Server, but that should run you less than $1K for an older UltraSparc or around $1K for one of the new mini servers Sun is selling now.
So, total cost of migration (minus Labor)
~$1K for Sparc box
$106.95/user for software
~$70 Your favorite distro
10 users for less than $2500 plus Labor if you recycle existing hardware..... not bad, what's that? 1 Win2K Server License + 1 Copy of Exchange 2000 without the client licenses or the Office licenses?
Oh yeah, and now you can manage the servers via dial-up over ssh. Sweet!!!!!
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
I've spoke to management regarding this same thing recently and have proposed migrating some to Staroffice. The argument I used was that most people in our company rarely ever use Word or Excel to its potential so buying Office every two years doesn't make sense when Office 97 will work for most people. Apparently the accountants are starting to get a little concerned over the license changes because it appears to be working. Management agreed to allow us to start with the I.S. Deparment for deployment of Staroffice and as the techs get trained on that product, we'll eventually migrate other departments. Some groups will still be allowed to stay on Office because there are apps that use Excel and Access and there's no way that we can get rid of those apps.
By the way, my company has about 6000 users and we purchase a copy of Windows and Office for nearly every person that comes to work for us. It's dumb but it's the policy here. After StarOffice, I'm going to work on getting Linux on the desktop. That's a greater battle though. I showcased RH 7.3 recently and some people were impressed but others were a little concerned that the new interface would intimidate some of our workers. Support costs were another issue that I agree with but I'm going to try to get management to allow some of the engineers to start using linux on their laptops and set aside a budget for books. After spending so much money over the years on MS training, it would be very hard to get the same Red Hat training for tech support.
Also, OpenOffice has a nice feature allowing you to save (print) documents to PDF. It's really just a conduit into GS, but still -- it's free.
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It sounds like you're afraid that what you have won't be viable in a few years. If you have Windows 2000 and Office 2000 or XP, though, you should be fine.
Read this article on CNet. In your case, forget the Software Assurance program and buy OEM licenses from your vendors. The cost increases that Gartner is factoring are for the retail copies of Windows and Office -- OEM copies are usually about 60% of that price.
Microsoft's licensing changes have pissed off a lot of customers, and a lot of those customers are migrating off Windows and onto Linux on their servers (because heck, it's $999 for Windows 2000 Server and migrating to Samba/Linux doesn't involve much retraining for your users.)
I would be hesitant to push users off of Windows and Office at this point, especially if I had an all-Windows 2000 shop. With only 50 users, you can get a VAR to hook you up with OEM copies of the latest and greatest Windows/Office at any time without buying in to the Software Assurance program. Thus, I wouldn't worry too much about licensing changes. If you want to see the greatest benefit with the least migration cost, put your web and workgroup servers on Linux.
The desktops, however, are often more trouble than they are worth. I'd leave them alone if I were you. The migration and training costs just aren't worth it at this point. The best thing you can do is just to get them all on the same version of Windows (2000) and Office (2000 or XP) and leave them alone from there. You can look at it again in a couple of years.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
...linux fully deployed in 2, maybe 3 days on the outside.
I agree, the apps matter.
Last time I tried staroffice it was good, but not 100%, which isn't surprising, MS office itself isn't 100%.
But what about CAD, you must use the exact same program, and VERSION, along with handfuls of specific apps.
There is also the ever common MS Access Databases (which are quite nice for many simple tasks).
Not to mention the crazy Calculation programs most larger technical companies have, heck I still use some DOS programs regularly.
With Microsofts past history more companies are getting scared to just upgrade, they evaluate whether EVERY application works properly and take it nice and slow, moving to Linux would be quite a jump. It likely is quite a bit cheaper to just pay $2k/yr and stay with MS
I've found that many companies waste a lot of money by actually buying a separate copy of software for each PC! Americans are so wasteful.
Best Windows Freeware
As an experiment, when I was moving my desktop at work to run on Linux (YAY!), I decided to try to do as much through the GUI as possible. I wanted to see how far things had come and answer your question which I was wondering about too. So, I installed redhat 7.2 loaded up KDE and got to work.
The simple answer is yes, you can do nearly everything through the GUI. I found that, I only had to move away from the GUI when I was doing non-standard things. For example I wanted to download a cutting edge version of a piece of software that had to be compiled. So, yeah I had to bring up a command-line to manage that. Overall though I think that anything I'd normally be able to do under windows I could do under Linux with no need of a command line.
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I have two machines connected to a 2 port USB KVM switch. That way I can quickly move between my two machines here at work, one FreeBSD and one Windows 2000. I spend probably 95% of the time in FreeBSD (thank you VNC!), but some things are just easier in Windows (SQL Enterprise Manager sucks over VNC). Occasionally I go to Windows to open a website that Mozilla can't handle (screw you, WebTrends). It makes my life as a System Administrator much easier, takes 2 seconds to go from FreeBSD to Windows.
We've migrated all of our systems to linux, with multiple VMware guest operating systems such as, NT4, WIN2K and WIN XP... Works great!
I have been using Mandrake 8.0 for about six monthes now (first Linux install) and I have not needed to go to the command line for anything. I am not a particularly great computer person, but other than learning the whole mount unmount floppy disk disaster (what dya mean I can't just put the disk in the drive?). The transition from windows has been pretty smooth. Using gnome the menus are all in the same place (almost) as they were with windows, useing star office is almost exactly the same as using MSOffice, the Gimp does my phot editing easier than photoshop ever did.
Abd contrary toevery thing I have heard every thing just worked straight out of the box with less fuss than trying to get it to work on my hideously boken windows partition.
Ok now I will go back in my corner and shut up
And its a huge nightmare the more we think of it and that's just the tech side. And we use Corel Office, so should have an easier time. The problem is all those custom access databases that people have that won't work anymore. That's gonna hurt big time. OpenOffice is good. Heck its great. But there isn't an access equivelent yet. That's were all the customization dookickeys happen that the IT staff probably won't know about. And they important. Other then that we may be doing it. It looks good, its cheaper, we can make more simple user menus. People can't install their cool version of something unless we let them. Less viruses. Less crashing. Better preformance on lower grade hardware. If people can run word processing, spread sheet, access the internet, get mail, run calendars, print, listen to a cd, and not crash 10 minutes into the day. People would be thrilled. Dang. Now I gotta go fix someone else.
-cpd
We use AppleWorks, Applixware and StarOffice at home. The M$ filters run fairly well on all of them. However, how is AppleWorks considered cross-platform?
The suggestion of SO on windows and *then* start moving to Linux is a good one.
JB
The heat from below can burn your eyes out
We can barely get some of the administrative people we have trained on Windows.
I tried to get my fiance to use Linux (SuSE 8.0), her response was "I don't want to learn Linux. I want to use Windows, that's what we have at work". Even though 90% of what she does on her computer at home (online banking, documents, web surfing) can be done just as easily on Linux, the exception being playing games (which I already have a dedicated machine for doing just that).
I tried telling her "There's nothing to learn really, you click on the menu, launch the program and use it like you would a Windows computer". Alas, to no avail.
My point being, even if you convince them it's cheaper, more stable, they won't care unless you force it down their throats. It's like medicine or a new dish. Some people like to try new things, others don't.
Not to mention the fact that you have to convince them that productivity won't be hurt. (now the Systems and help desk productivity might be hurt having to run around and say to everyone "it's just like windows". Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...) on their new Linux machines, then get mad when you tell them it won't work.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
True, Its really GS that does all that.. If you run Open Office under windows you don't get that option.. but you can mimic it by loading Ghoust Script for windows and the extra tools to redirect your printer.. I found it rather time consuming to configure (GS) and the end result didn't aways come out the best.. For some reason it would only convert the first or last page.. I am still looking into the issue.
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
Microsoft has a monopoly. You cannot beat that. Any switch at this time will cause you more grief than happiness (other than the satisfaction of getting M$ off your machines).
Your business guys will need M$. You administrators (not SA's!) will need M$. Your customers will need you to have M$. Etc.
You will loose (at least in the short term - which might be the long term, if you know what I mean) if you switch.
I have... I now run linux with vmware so I can get the required Lotus Bloats spam messages my company sends out.
I'd agree with an earlier poster: Stick with what you have for now. Software doesn't wear out; as long as you have the features you need, don't upgrade.
If you must upgrade, what about Apple Mac's? Is the Office licensing the same for Office for MacOS?
Another alternative: WordPerfect. The word processor is just as good, if not better than Word; the drawback is that the spreadsheet, while decent for many tasks, isn't suited for power Excel users. The last two versions of WP even run VB.
Several people have replied about migrating to StarOffice (can't say anything about OpenOffice since I've never used it). They are right in pointing out that getting the office apps right is the numero uno priority. Anything that a user uses 85% of the time is going to be something that they are very passionate about. Which brings me to my point.
Now to be honest, I haven't looked at SO in about a year, so things might have changed since then. But my impression (as a very long time Word/Excel user) was that the program was not up to snuff. On equivilent hardware it took forever and a day just to start up, the user interface is radically different than office products, and it just had a very clunky feel to it. Now the first two issues don't speak to whether SO is actually _better_, just different enough to create a learning curve. A learning curve that it will be hard to get the average user to try to tackle without a pretty darn good reason. I think that this will be your biggest hurdle. Saving a few bucks here or there is important only to the bean counters. And if those bean counters are going to be forced to switch from Excel (which most know quite intimately) to SO, then they might not be so quick to want to switch.
This is a small change to the way KDE and Gnome look, but I think it's an important change: the typical Gnome taskbar along the bottom is three times as big as Windows users are used to, and is cluttered with a bunch of useless toys. Get rid of everything except the buttons that indicate which programs are running, and of course the button that users think of as the "start" button.
The default menus in most distros are also way too extensive. They tend to have the same thing several times in several places. Pick the dozon or so programs your users generally need and put them in the main "start" menu. Hide the rest in a single "advanced" menu, or even get rid of the menu items altogether.
Put icons for the most important programs right on the desktop: Spreadsheet, Word Processor (not "Text Document" like Open Office says), etc.
By default, don't allow multiple desktops. Users who are advanced enough to understand the concept will know to ask you for it.
Finally, sit and watch users play with the system. Note any place that they frown and get confused. Don't believe self-deprecatory excuses that they just don't know what they're doing and they're sure the system is fine: if they don't know how to do something it's the systems' fault for not being easy enough.
Miko O'Sullivan
See here's what happens. The BSA says play nice with them and they'll be lenient with you. Nice means either paying for new software or paying for them to audit you and then pay for the license you were supposed to have. Keep in mind, that having a copy of office and a receipt for it is not legally licensed unless you've got the little certificate of authenticity. So if you weren't keep pristine records they'll possibly have you paying twice for your software.
Now, that's the "NICE" approach. The less than nice approach is that they file suit against you in court. During discovery they get to audit you and can find that lone piece of software that was infringing. Now you have to pay for that license, penalties, court costs, audit costs, damages. Now if it turns out that you are the one organization on earth that has all of your software licensed legitmately, then you can probably recover the costs for your legal defense, but even then you just wasted a lot of time and resources.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Let the finance guys figure out the savings, but your options are these:
1. Do nothing. (no cost, no effort)
2. Do something.
2a. Go full-boar Microsoft. (large cost, low effort)
2b. Go with MS Windows and Star Office (medium cost, low effort)
2c. Go with Linux and Star Office (low cost, large effort)
(There are also all the hybrid approaches that are the fractional permutations of the above.)
--
Decide what makes the most sense for your situation. Personally, I'd be disinclined to go with 2a, because there is still effort involved, but the cost is large. I'd guess that a combination of mostly 1 and some 2c might work well for a normal distribution of workplace personalities, duties and talents, and it would be cheap. Maybe one or two 2a's and one or two 2b's for good measure.
sig is
I'm slowly migrating to Linux at my company. So far it's going pretty well. We had to add an extra box to everyone's desk in the call center due to [Non-Disclosure Agreement], so I spent $1000 for some old P233MMX w/64MB RAM, slapped Linux on them, and the users went to town.
After a couple of months with Linux in production I have to say that it's going well. Help desk calls are waaaaay down and users are happy. I've said this before, but here goes: users don't remember the last time they rebooted the Linux box, but sure remember the last time they rebooted Windows.
We're replacing Windows boxes right now by attrition, but plan to replace them all by the end of the year - OS, not hardware.
Since Office runs on Linux now it's at least theoretically possible to standardize on Open Office or something internally and have a single box with a single MS Office license converting both incoming and outgoing attachments to and from MS office format. When an open-source conversion utility comes out, you'll probably be able to abandon MS Office altogether but keep compatability with others.
Be aware that Citrix ain't really that cheap a solution. You'll pay through the nose for licenses (application licenses for each connectd user, terminal server client access licenses for each connection, citrix licenses for each user, and connection licenses for each computer). You have to get licenses for client machines (unless they're Windows 2k or XP which have their own) that connect to a Citrix server, which defeats the financial purpose of replacing Windows with Linux.
It's all about transition. If you force a change on your users they'll hate you for it (and probably force a change back). Do this: Install Open Office for Windows on some (or all) of the users. You may want to start with some of the more tech-savvy users and gradually move to the rest of them. Be sure to be ready for a lot of "I did x by doing y in Excel, how do I do it in this?" or "in the old system, I did this..." Windows is a little more tricky. I would suggest, if you can wait this long, for Lindows to come out or at least something similar. The key being it's still MS Windows-ish.. just make sure whichever one you go with you can run those specialized programs. Also, be sure to include a lot of pretty desktops and screen savers (a lot of beaches, sunsets etc). Most users, at least here, will do anything--including dump windows--just for a pretty looking background. Eventually you may be able to move them off of the Lindows type OS and onto a (free) distro or your own. As for the servers, it all depends on what you do with them, but most things like print serving, file sharing, NT domains, etc can be done easily with samba or lpd or whatever.
n/m - I just looked on the AppleWorks site - I didn't know there was a win32 version - not that I have any use for it, mind you ;-)
The heat from below can burn your eyes out
One added point: use LTSP. By maintaining a central control on the system you can more easily respond to users' needs.
Miko O'Sullivan
Throw them in all at once, The initial shock of changing OS might be steep at first, but having to deal with all the problems up front is better imho. In 2 weeks they should be fairly up to speed. Let them swim or drown in the bits.
I will bend your mind with my spoon
Because there is a Windows version...
My solution:
s shd(for remote control)
Debian Woody+2.4 kernels
KDM(my fav login screen)
IceWM(my fav wm + iceme + icepref)
Mozilla
AbiWord
gnumeric
evolution
or
vncserver (I never got around to this)
For programmers:
gcc+kdevelop
Also, you should have central auth (maybe LDAP -- I never got around to it -- I have absolutely no idea how to do it), and an apt-proxy somewhere around the net.
This should run on a Duron/Celeron >700 + 128Mb RAM pretty well and gobbles only about 500Mb of the HDD (maybe less, maybe more)
Good luck!
For some moral support, a few laughs, and generally practical wisdom, read this article from CIO magazine.
Migrating 50 users, while no walk in the park, shouldn't really be that hard. You can feasibly handle this project a few users at a time, especially if you handle it right. You'll want to start by understanding the needs and tasks of your various users. Make a note of the applications/features they use, and research alternatives in the Free Software world. You'll want to test these applications out, play around, and get comfortable with them, so you'll be able to install and configure them to be useable for your users, and help them out with simple problems as they make the transition.
As you go forward, you'll want to group people who work together or trade files a lot to upgrade them together or very close to each other, so you don't run into too much trouble with compatibility problems. You'll probably want to go with StarOffice, and keep with the Microsoft file formats for a while, at least until everyone is done.
Make sure your finance people understand that this won't be free, and will take time and expenditures, but work with them to try and manage this transition within what they would have otherwise considered a fair budget for the next upgrade cycle. Schedule a generous time-frame for yourself as well, and explain that on this particular round you'll probably consume the license savings in labor costs, but for future upgrades and maintenance, this won't be the case, and the license savings will be there.
Move carefully, but confidently. Help your users become confident with the alternatives. Encourage them to suggest that outside communications with the company be formatted in non Microsoft file types (for instance, ask the hiring manager(s) to request that resume submissions be in plain text, or RTF format, with a simple instruction on the job description of how to save in this format from most word processors (Click File, Save As, and choose the Plain Text option under file format)).
I highly suggest in a business environment you go with a distribution that supports automatic installation of a custom configuration (like Red Hat's kickstart). You can set up a system to meet the specifications you need, with all the software configured just the way you and your users want it, and then take a snapshot which can be easily installed on other systems, regardless of hardware configuration (bypassing the weaknesses of Ghost and the like), freeing you to devote your time to user orientation and training, as well as building a common sandbox environment that you'll be able to play in, and easily keep organized in the future.
If you're not too scared, and you schmooze the right way, you should be able to accomplish the migration in reasonable time and without (too much) trouble.
Good luck!
I avoid the continual payment plan of Microsoft by buying retail copies for each pc, no MOLP crap.
Sure i pay a bit more in the front end, but i dont have to upgrgrade when THEY say i do..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
As a user already familiar with MS Office, I had no difficulty at all learning how to use StarOffice. The migration was almost completely painless. The only hangup I've hit so far is that OLE controls on speadsheets (buttons, checkboxes, etc.) don't translate -- but that's a very esoteric feature. 90% of users will not see any significant difference.
"Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...) on their new Linux machines, then get mad when you tell them it won't work."
Screensavers? Have you SEEN the latest full Gnome install? I could spend an hour browsing through the stock screen savers! As for wallpaper, that's cross platform. A jpeg is a jpeg is a jpeg. P2P apps would be a problem if it wasn't for wine and people like Frank, who've figured it out for you. Closed formats are really the only thing that Microsoft apps can read that Linux apps can't. Even that barrier is crumbling.
Look, stick with what works. If 85% of computer use is Office, then stay in Windows. If upgrades are too expensive...don't upgrade. If you want to be "up to date," then Linux isn't going to really be an option, since it will be a few years (if ever) before we see MS Office copying the latest features from Open Office.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Here is a quote:
Still, in my opinion, the great majority of end-users is still too dumb and this will cause you greater troubles, at least with all the time you will waste trying to explain'em that No, You Can'T Have A Dancing Lady On Your Desktop, And Even If You Were In A Windows Environment You Just Cannot Install It And Later Complain Because You Got a Virus!
However, have fun.-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
tell them it's an upgrade and leave it at that. don't tell them that you are switching to a new OS. if you stress that they are changing OS they will stress.
May I suggest OsX ?
most windows apps, streaming media, etc. are available on osX, and you still have the freedom to run unix if you want.
I too, await getting flamed...
I don't have any problem using my Windows wallpapers on linux.
My other Slashdot ID is much lower.
Try out OpenOffice.org for a "free" office suite on Windows. It's working well here on Win2K. Need WordPerfect filters or templates? StarOffice 6.0 just came out and adds those features to OpenOffice.org's code.
Replace your file/print/mail servers with Linux. Consider moving databases to something Linux-friendly. Your users should never know the difference - only the admins will.
With these two chances alone you remove the need for several MS licenses:
* Windows Server CAL's
* Windows Exchange/SQL Server CAL's
* Office licenses for each desktop
Need remote access? Teach your users to use ftp via their browsers, ssh, telnet, all the "real" remote access tools. Now you have removed two more pieces of MS licensing - Terminal Server CAL's and Windows 2000/XP desktop liceses for remote users.
I found this article online a few weeks ago, maybe off of /. I can't remember. Anyways, it gives some great real world examples of Open Source software in the workplace, along with the cost savings. Definetly worth a read if you're looking for facts to back up this decision.
http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html
I work for a medium sized (~40) company and we are no longer MS dominated.
Disclosure: we are an engineering company, so we have been doing some things on UNIX for a long time.
Having said that, our current mix is around 85% non-MS and 15% MS. For our engineering tasks, we use software that never did come from MS (although it was supported on the Windows platform, even though we never used it on Windows). For most of our "office" tasks, we use StarOffice 5.2 and will be moving to 6.0. All of this is now running on Linux based PCs.
The 15% MS portion is mainly for certain cases where we must use the same tool as our customer, and the customer want's to use MS tools (mostly spec. and project management related).
All-in-all, it works pretty well, and it definitely shaves $$ off your overhead costs, not to mention reduced audit worries.
Microsoft can't force you to upgrade your existing software, so take your time. Set up a couple of test Linux desktop systems (KDE looks/works like Windows) with OpenOffice 1.0 or StarOffice 6.0 (if you want/need things like templates) and Netscape 6.2 maybe, Gabber for instant-messaging, and look into Evolution if you need a Microsoft email/calendar workalike.
Then setup Wine (or CrossOver Office) for the few specialized applications and get them working well. Clone your desktop system for a few recruits (managers, if possible) and do some hand holding, er... training, until they're comfortable.
After that, it shouldn't be too painful to move the rest of the company onto all-Linux desktops. If you can avoid future rounds of Microsoft taxes for WindowsXP/OfficeXP (and later) this way, you will save about $700/user, or almost $35,000 _per year_. You'll save more if you replace those Sun machines with Linux, too, instead of upgrades.
So, try to figure out how to motivate people to use the new software. Maybe you can arrange for people to share in the financial rewards of the switch (a small raise for all the MS Office users, financed from the license savings). If people see and share in the financial benefits, that might motivate them. On the other hand, if they are forced by decree to use something they consider inferior, it's going to be a disaster.
Also consider introducing it gradually over the next year, requiring to use StarOffice for some peripheral business processes and getting people used to it without forcing them to switch cold.
I would probably go with StarOffice (as opposed to the free suites), though. That's not because StarOffice is necessarily better, it's because you can point out that this is a commercial program, developed and supported by a large software company. You probably don't want to fight the "switch from Office" and "switch to open source software" battles at the same time. Once your users accept StarOffice, you can then still switch to OpenOffice.
I suggest you to just download a copy of OpenOffice which is the open source office suite for Windows. That might do it since it will do a small but consistent migration in the aplications. They will learn linux later as they perform their general tasks on a office suite that is more secure and has less bugs that MS OFfice.
I suggest you to spend 20 USD in CD-R and burn copies of OpenOffice, then start distribuiting throught our your perzonel and tel them to do some test days where all their activities will be done completely in OpenOffice and they can migrate their data more confortably.
The JZA
OK, Yes, you must buy new hardware. But, you get lots of things that managers care about.
Office. Fast hardware. Corporate support. Really easy to learn.
On the tech side, you get BSD, lots of options in file servers. Integrated logins through Netinfo or LDAP. Easy expansion of desktops through Firewire or USB. Don't like the mouse? Get a new one.
Sure, initial costs are high, but long term costs are very low. Convert a few at a time, as user's hardware becomes old. You can use Linux as the file/name/mail/etc servers, get more miles out of your Intel hardware, but the XServe sure looks nice.
Dump the IRS - http://www.fairtax.org
Actually, move your servers to Linux and Samba first if they are not already.
A smallish office can use a setup similar to a traditional windoze network, with high power clients. A large corp should consider using application servers and X terminals.
Install Linux for all new employees and stop upgrading existing users. Eventually, old users will plead with you to move them to Linux!
KDE and OpenOffice.org works purrrrrfectly for me. Together with MR Project, I can do whatever I want.
Your biggest problem is going to be the accounting people. Depending on the accounting package in use, they may have to stay with windoze, but everybody else can move to Linux tomorrow and will all be happy with the result.
You should be looking at it taking at least a year to get rid of most of your MS software. Start with proprietary formats. Send memos against using .doc and microsoft formats. Retrain them on how to save in like PDF or something. Go then to cross platform apps. Look to Open/StarOffice. Don't forget one of the selling points of open source is the extra influence you have over the apps development. Become a laison between your end users and the developers. You will become invaluable to both. Add the software on their computers but don't delete the old. During a crisis they will feel better with the old. Slowly train them on it one-on-one. Remember you want Mozilla or Opera to replace their browser. Show them the joys of Tab Browseng and they won't go back to IE. Outlook can be a stickler if your using it for project management. Look at Evolution but I'm not sure if it's been ported to Windows yet. Have everyone make a list of every app they use down to even media players. Slowly, tick them off one by one. The OS goes last. However, any new hires should be trained on a complete system. You are already paying for their adjustment time. Lead your people slowly; don't push anything on them and the productivity drop, do to the change, will be small.
Before you go all crazy, at least try a Mac running OS X, first. If you like it enough, you'll have the best of both worlds: Soft chewy desktop supported by a name-brand computer maker, with a crunchy Unix backbone.
You may never have considered a Mac before, but you might like it now--it's worth at least a look.
--
$tar -xvf
Well Sience you are already dealing with Sun for your servers StarOffice is an aforadable alternative to Office. The best thing to do is check all your office documents and make sure they work in StarOffice then alter any ones that dont work so they do. The next version of Solaris (9) will be shipping with Gnome later this year. This will provide a much more user friendly interface on top of a unix platform. To add to that if you planning on upgrading all the PC's anyways You may want to see if the Sun's SunRays are a good solution for you it makes administration easier and easier to train your emploies and if you have to stick with Windows the sunrays can be configures to run Windows threw a terminal server. Although you still have to play MS money it will be less then having 50 PCs installed.
Apple Macintoshes may be a better fit you can have the MS Office on it and still have a pricing structure that is not unreasionable. Keep in mind that any migration will cost more money in the short term. With training and and remakes of custom software but they will pay for them selfs in time.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Large companies are an excelent target for Linux.
Small to medium (50-500)sized companies are a good target as well. The right people for the job are going to be more expensive than you are used to though. Time to read mythical man month.
When it comes to small companies smaller than 50 my advice is when you are big enough to justify a full time IT person, then it is time to consider it. The market isn't big enough (yet) to ask your neighboor for help with Linux, so you really can't attempt a switch with a part time computer guy.
Unless that part timer happens to know Linux and Windows well.... In which case you should give him a raise because he isn't long for such a small operation. He will be offered a job he can't refuse RSN.
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
I am currently migrating a company 80+ users [150 employees] from 100% M$ to Linux. I think the tactics depends on the industry. I am working for a manufacturing company. The process is different then say , a law office. :) .
the first thing I did was bring in a linux. I have been able to easily manage the T1 for security, block inappropriate sites, and watch usage and traffic with Zero downtime
Yesterday our new server came in a Dual Athlon 360gig Raid5 monster! I will now integrate all the M$ servers, but one to this single server.
Third step is to switch the ERP system.. and here is where the trick comes in. We will get a new ERP system that runs a java client instead of a M$ client. that will leave the desktops only needing M$Office. to conduct business. we will have to look at Code Weavers CrossOver plugin and at Staroffice6.0 and see which is the better solution. when switching to Linux on the desktop we will of course go Thin client. this will dramatically cut administration cost. and save allot of man power.
In the engineering department we will be going to linux and ProE. YES ProE for Linux!! ProE for linux will be release at the end of this year. We will run redhat with acceleratedX drivers. just to keep it simple. (I don't think Xfree86 ever has full FireGL support any how). and then we are done
Need help finding the flow? http://www.myspace.com/naturalismandbalance
my finance guys are worried about increased spending on even the software that we already own.
You don't have to pay for software you already own. If you don't sign up for the new MS license programs before the end of July however, you WILL have to pay full price to go to newer versions in the future.
If you're happy with what you have and think that it will carry you for the next two years (which is how long the upgraded license would take you), stay with what you got. Leave the poor desktop users alone if possible and go to Linux servers if you need upgrades on that side of things. Samba, Apache - they're your FRIENDS.
I too am the IT Manager for a small company, and we're more or less "forced" to stay with Windows because of the Tax/Audit software that we use 24-7. We're using the new license agreement to go to XP, but that's more of a desire to get the hell away from NT4 (thank the deity of your choice, anything's better than NT4).
A lot of it just comes down to file formats. If you can't switch now, then at least you can make it easier to switch later: have your users start saving their stuff to standardized formats instead of closed proprietary lock-in formats. Yes, OpenOffice can read MS Word files, but just about everything can read RTF, and RTF has all the functionality needed, 99% (subjective) of the time.
Once you get out of needing dead-end tools, you'll be in a better position to be able to use whatever you want to.
Start doing it now, even if you don't ever intend to break free of MS. Standard files might even be more compatable with future MS products than today's lock-in formats will be.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I have a half-dozen FreeBSD boxes that work great as servers, network management tools, etc.
However, I'd rather spend my free time doing something fun than spend it fscking around with what passes for a GUI under any x86 Unix. Applications just work under Win2k and XP and I don't need to become an X/kde/gnome/qt guru to make it happen.
I think there's room for both.
First of all lay down your architecture. In our shop we started by loading a huge compaq server with memory. We went to a local used pc company and bought a whole bunch of used p350 machines at 100 dollars a piece. We loaded redhat 7.2 on the big server along with open office, mozilla and some other productivity apps. We turned on GDM on the big server to dish out x displays. Next we built a kickstart install to do the workstations. The kickstart does a standard minimal linux load with x and at the end of the install modifys the inittab to query the server for a display. These machines do nothing but X display so we wanted to capture the free cycles to run computatational fluid dynamics applications on. So we add the mosix kernel at the end of the kick start and boot the now running workstation. Another way to accomplish this is by using LTSP but it is more trouble than it is worth in my opinion. It is far easier to just load linux on the local disk. We totally control the desktop on each machine right down to the application icons...The moral of the story is "we are happier than pigs in shit with the outcome" and I have never had to show a single user how to use the kde desktop.
Got Code?
I just know this will get modded down to minus 1000, but I can't resist:
For over a year or so I'm thinking of moving from Linux to windows. Why? Because of the stability and usability. Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
For the last couple of months I've noticed an increasing amount of posts on Slashdot from people subtly promoting Microsoft and putting down Linux. They say just the right things to make sure their posts don't get modded down, but essentially try to persuade people to think the types of things Microsoft wants them to think.
Here's a very interesting article from the UK Guardian about corporations using fake people on newsgroups and email forums to rubbish their opponents. They use companies who promise to be very discrete and do it in such a way that it is very difficult to link the individuals back to the company concerned. The article cites the case of this type of tactics being used by Monsanto. Is it really so difficult to believe that Microsoft might pay one of these companies to post anti-Linux comments on sites like Slashdot? Read the article.
1. Stay open. Standard or open protocols, commodity hardware, standard document and storage formats, and flexible users.
Benefit: Theoretical interoperability, and never a need to change everything at once to perform one "minor" system change.
Cost: Vigilance, and therefore additional internal expenses to ensure that solutions are not just "packaged." Possibly not getting all the new and cool features of an integrated and proprietary solution.
2. Stay diverse. Always use different desktop OS's, different applications to do the same tasks.
Benefit: Promotes objective of staying standardized and open. One system failure will not (necessarily) impact everything. Resources can be shifted around to take advantage of new developments.
Costs: Additional expense associated with a heterogeneous system. (Arguable) Different systems aren't a benefit unless all can perform the tasks at hand equally well.
In general, if the objective is to save money, don't change! When you MUST change... prepare long and hard and make changes to improve productivity. However, remember that the software companies have a vested interest in forcing you to change, through technology, licenses, and whatever other tricks they can come up with.
However, if the objective is to always get the best return on investment, stay flexible and adapt to change! Play vendors against each other to always get the best products at the best price!
I would install as many alternatives as you can, and make them the default. Open a doc in staroffice, and things should work. You can get at word, but not without going through a wrapper that requires you to email what staroffice cannot do that you need. Users will try to use staroffice where they can, where it fails they will tell you what doesn't work.
Or to save even more money, just start migrating people to linux/kde/koffice, after verifying that their applications will work.
Remember, you are a company, you have work to get done. Find out what tasks you really need to do, and then find a linux program to do it. For those who only use a few features of Word this is easy, koffice is there already. For those who need something complex, you might need wine, or devolpe your own solution.
Do not forget to do some practice runs. Take your backups, restore them to a equivelent systems, and convert that system to linux with the old data, and run some fake transactions. (be careful not to get this data into the real world). And don't convert anyone before a major deadline. Accounting gets converted right after payday, and nowhere near april 15th!
You don't have a hurry now, if the BSA does come knocking, or Microsoft does start demanding unreasonable fees, you have a plan in place to convert quickly, otherwise just convert as an open source alteranative is just as good as the windows equivelent. (Note, I said just as good for your pruposes, and Not as good. If you never use some feature, then there is no reason to wait for it)
So I made him a nice little .dot file. I gave it to him and he asked me what the heck it was... He always just used his old files, erased all stuff and typed the new stuff in it. I wonder if it stays in the undo or so, didn't check...Should have though ;-)
Oops, seems I just spoiled an Office user in using templates. Oh, well...MS shop anyway, but everyone is drooling over my iBook
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
I recently started using a linux desktop in the workplace, and have found little situations where I am in need of a windows box. Keep in mind I am a developer and not an average office user, but I do have to share files w/ clients and co-workers all using windows pc's and our main file server is a windows pc here is a list of problems and software solutions MS Office = open office opens and saves files no problem, furthermore most distros comes w/ ps2pdf if you need to share a file globally MS Mounted Network Drives = autofs and samba, I have diretories with in my home directory mounted to our win2k server no problem, Am also using a win2k shared printer browser = mozilla / konqueror EMail = kmail / evolution And when I need to see something in a windows world I can vnc to one of my coworkers computers or use terminal server w/ rdesktop. In my situation I can do everything I need to, which as you can see above is what most office users do. My boss/owner of the company also saw a big bonus in no licensing costs/fears. We bought the computer preinstalled w/ linux and all the bells and whistles and had to do very little to get it up on our network(plugged it in). http://www.computervanguard.com built and configured it for us.
/* declare all variables */
When a coporation fakes public support it is its called Astro turfing.
I love that expression.
Stop installing kernels and leave your system alone. Damn. Use whatever kernel your distro has deemed "Stable" and stick with it. If you keep tossing pre-this and pl-that on there OF COURSE it's going to crash...
Right now, I can't keep my development pc running for more than a week because of some application that leaks memory and uses up my entire memory after a few days.
Perhaps you, being a developer should take a look at the source code and assist in resolving the memory leak, or at the least report your experience to the maintainer(s) of the app so they can correct the problem. Community support means just that.
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles.
I just love it when I encounter yet another website that adheres to industry standards and renders perfectly in mozilla, konqeror, opera...
Here are a few things that I've used to eliminate MS products on my networks:
:)
For word processing I like AbiWord. The 1.0.1 version has just been released and it works quite well. It doesn't have *every* feature of word, no sane program would, but it does have all the features needed for general word processing.
I don't have much use for spreadsheets, but Gnumeric and kspread have worked fine for me. People have also mentioned that OpenOffice/StarOffice has a good spreadsheet.
For reading email there's Evolution, Netscape or Mozilla Messenger, and various others.
For database, use MySQL or PostgreSQL as the backend instead of access. Use HTML as a frontend so you can access it from any system, even Windows.
For webmail, take a look at squirrelmail. There are many other imap/pop/mtas that you can choose from to create your mail server. Of course, you'll replace IIS with Apache
For viruses you'll need to use the Unix honor system. su to root, choose a file at random then delete it, then email everyone in your address book with similar instructions. To mimic the crashes you can try turning off the power when you're in the middle of something very important.
So if someone comes out and says that they prefer Windows, that automatically makes them a paid deceptor sent by "The Enemy"...
Well at least /. never has to worry about running out of things to be paranoid about...
You can always run VMWARE to give the user exactly the same environment as before, but way reduce management cost. If a virus hits Outlook again, simply restore from a clean saved state. Software upgrades will be easier. It doesn't take market share away from MS, but by introducing Linux systems eases the transition, exactly what MS has to fear most.
Mac OS X is a bona-fide BSD with Max user interface and full MS office suite.Most people will consider getting a shiny Mac as an upgrade from MS/Intel, not a downgrade. The killer would be, of course, OS X (=BSD + Aqua user interface) for Intel. MS could pull the plug on Office for Macs, but they might already lack market force for that.
I have noticed that also. The funny thing about these
posts is that many of the complaints about open-source
applied to the state of world in 1997-98. I am
amazed at how quickly linux and BSD went from pretty
impossible to install and use to pretty easy to install
and use.
As a windows refugee I know of what I speak.
-- For many microsoft people the light just will never
turn on about open-source. Unfortunately.
-- let them astroturf. time is running out.
There's only two useful applications on Windows that I can't find for Linux.
The Google Toolbar and the Yahoo Toolbar.
Given those two things, which I use constantly, I could move away from the pain and suffering of Windows on my laptop.
My desktop will probably stay Windows 2000 because of games. Argh..
What's my Karma Mr. Burns? "Excellent"
Whoah.. whoah.. WHOAH hold on a sec. FIVE DAYS ?!?! Dude. The matrix trailer came out yesterday morning in quicktime format. I decided to finally take the plunge and try out the crossover plugin. It was up and running in 5 minutes, and I was playing quicktime movies in mozilla.
Something is seriously wrong if it takes you FIVE DAYS to set that up. I smell a troll.
2. Freeze the interfaces. For example, determine what file format (like Word98) is most commonly used for exchanging word processing documents and make that the corporate standard. Note: standardize on the interfaces, not on the applications which create and use them. Have the CEO sign a decree accepting and mandating that standardized format. (The signature is important.) Make sure everyone who needs to access documents of this type has some sort of software which can access these documents. Cost to date $0
3. Get a written comittment from the senior management that this corporate standard document format will not be changed without their signature and their peraonal acceptance of the cost to allow that change. Cost to date $0
4. Get rid of any application which cannot read and write documents in this corporate standard file format by default. When the next round of software updates hit, refuse to deploy any application which cannot seemlessly access documents in the corporate standard format and save new or changed documents in the corporate standard format by default. If it can't do both of these, it isn't even in the running (no matter how helpful that damned paperclip is). Cost to date $0
About this point in their first reading of this plan, smart managers will realize that if they agree to this while still using a proprietary file format, it means that they are agreeing to be personally responsible for the decision tying them into either a) a dead-end platform and mass migration costs (because Microsoft is not going to maintain full backward compatibility with the Word98 file format forever) b) paying Microsoft for a custom support contract (which, if you can believe it, will be even more expensive than a mass migration.) A smart manager will realize that he's already backed into this corner, won't allow himself to be backed further into this corner and instead demand that the corporate standard file format be something other than a proprietary one. (SGML, for example).
Once you've convinced your senior management that it's their responsibility to remain in control of their own computers, and that placing corporate intellectual property assets into a proprietary file format represents a questionable off-book liability which could get them in heaps of trouble, you'll be in a much better position to get their cooperation.
As soon as they've agreed that a non-proprietary file format is the only way to go, proceed with the plan as above:
1. Have them read this plan.
2. As per their direction, declare SGML to be the corporate standard.
3. Get their buy-in and signature.
4. Get rid of any application which cannot read and write documents in this corporate standard file format by default.
Whoops! That means you have to get rid of proprietary software like Microsoft Office, because it can't be set to read and write documents in your chosen corporate standard by default.
Repeat the above procedure for every component interface, ignoring the applications themselves. In this, a file format (SGML) is an interface, a network protocol (SAMBA) is an interface, email (POP3) is an interface; look only at the interfaces. Standardize on HTML 4.0, instead of Microsoft Internet Explorer. Standardize on POP3 and IMAP, rather than Microsoft Exchange. In this way, your company will never be backed into the proprietary software trap.
You'll likely find that only open source applications on an open source operating system meet the corporate standards. How you get them from that conclusion all the way to a Star Office on Linux solution is your own problem.
The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.
That's not a bug, that's a security feature. And that's how you sell it to management.
Although you can install your own wallpaper, of course; assuming that windows wallpapers still come as essentially giant bitmaps?
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
The same arguments apply:
For over a year or so I'm thinking of moving from Linux to Mac OS X. Why? Because of the stability and usability. Mac OS X appears to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles. (Hint, IE for Mac)
I've developed a lot of software for unix and am now seriously considering porting them to Mac OS X. Hell, it will be a lot easier to sell these things as well. Right now, I don't even have to bother. (porting is much simpler from Linux to the BSDish Mac than from Linux to Windows)
...
So how about it... Porting my own software to Mac OS X. I don't see a lot of problems. filesystem links, permissions are all supported. Most applications can be scripted...
Anyone have experience going from unix/linux to Mac OS X?
GPL Deconstructed
Find people in your company who use Linux at home. Some of the tech people probably do, but you may be surprised and find a few of the general users who do as well. I would not put the probability as high, but if they exist, they are probably your best resource for the next step.
Find out what features of your existing environment already exist in an environment supported by Linux. Presuming you have a help desk group of your own, there are a couple of trouble ticketing platforms that are already running in Linux, some with fairly advanced features.
More important would be to find out what user documents and document types need to be supported.
Next would be to start migrating the back end systems to Linux. Linux works well as a replacement for e-mail servers and File Servers (Samba) There are people working on tools to provide the necessary support to completely replace Exchange for your Outlook users.
If you do a substantial amount of work with SQL server, you may need to look for support to migrate to another database server platform. Postgres comes to mind, however if it is not up to your needs, you may have to look to other options such as Oracle or DB2, both of which are available on Linux. There are licencing concerns with those as well.
Going back to those users who have some experience with Linux, get them a new workstation set up to run Linux, using available equivalent applications in the Linux environment to allow them to do as much of their day to day work as possible. This does not necesarily require adding a computer or monitor at their workstation, it is possible to use VNC on Windows to control a set of workstations in a server room that are running Linux. When they are comfortable with Linux as their prefered platform, the workstations can be reversed with the users desktop workstation being swapped for the Server room workstation. At that point run the Windows workstation with a VNC server so the user can still access Windows for those situations where it is still necessary.
Once the user has spent enough time in the Linux environment, start checking with them to find out what is still being used on the Windows platform, and determine if there is a way to run those applications in Linux, either natively, or through Wine. If it is an application built in house, work with the developers to port it to Linux as possible.
Once a department user or two are comfortable using the Linux platform without any need for Windows, preferably for over 3 months, but with an accelerated schedule this could be as little as a month, set up a schedule to roll the solution out to the rest of the department.
For the next year or two retain the Windows workstations in the server room running VNC. These will act as resources for a few people in a few situations. As they are used, find out what their uses are, and when possible find ways to do the same tasks in Linux. In some cases, all that will be required is additional training. Other cases may need further product development.
Once you are satisfied that the Windows Workstations are no longer needed, convert them to a Linux Beowolf Cluster or other cluster server and start using it for any minor to low precedence major number crunching as needed.
Your toughest nut to crack will probably be managers and department heads. They are most likely to have non-standard hardware (laptops, where everyone else has desktops) need additional support (remote access) and have the least amount of time to learn new tools. If you can get their buy in first, and get them migrated to Linux before you convert their departments, they will be much less likely to do things like sending e-mails that have Windows required features in them, undermining your efforts with their subordinates.
All of this and more should be part of a project plan before you start any of the work. Granted parts can be spun off and done before other parts, the back end conversion being the prime example. Remote access should not be a significant issue either. There are several VPN solutions including support for Microsoft DUN-pptp.
For business case examples, and examples of companies that have done these types of conversions, take a look at the home pages of the various well known distributions. Mandrake includes a link to business cases for customers of theirs who have made, or are making the conversion.
The longer that you put off conversion to a lower cost, open platform, the longer it will take, and the more expensive it will be.
You can also look to companies like IBM, for support for such a conversion. I do not know how much they will cost you, but it may be worth investigating.
-Rusty
You never know...
The title of your post suggests migrating your office OS to Linux, which would be very painful and might actually run some of your employees off...no kidding. If we're only talking about a new Office Suite, then I think Lotus would be your best bet. The Apps are sumilar to M$ Office, the Lotus apps can read all the existing M$ files and the learning curve for your employees would be minimal. I use Lotus apps everyday (123, Word Pro, Freelance) and prior to coming to this company had used nothing but M$ Office. I suffered a bit of a learning curve, but it didn't take long to adapt. The office app that's been the hardest to get used to is Freelance, Powerpoint is easier to use. But there's almost no difference between 123 & Excel and Word processing is word processing...right?
There are certainly some less expensive choice than Lotus, but I think you'll find it cheaper than Micro$oft. Definitely an option you should consider...IMO.
If what he said wasn't true, I might believe you.
You obviously have never dealt with a user base that thinks, to an individual, that the company runs on their whim. These kind of people will call in favors and kill your project and your job in weeks flat. Trust me. No, ease them into it, woo them over group by group.
'There is great chaos under heaven, and the situation is excellent.'
Man, imagine the billable hours of digging through your unorganized crap. Whether you win or not the auditors will make you their new best friend!
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
If only Macintosh would port OS/X to the x86 architecture problem solved. Actually if you are buying new hardware get a mac. OS/X rules and you can always run linux if you disagree. A little off topice, but OS/X is what linux w/KDE/Gnome should aspire to be (except that linux would be free of course)
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
I had to work for 5 years before I got an office with windows. No way am I going back.
FreeBSD is both "free from" and "free to". You won't have any fancy GUI admin tools, but so what? You're not paying your IT department to look at eye candy. On the user side, with KDE or Gnome, it's going to be easy to use.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
You are right that this is the main weakness of Linux, silly as it sounds. It's the main reason I basically switched all my home computing to the Macintosh running MacOS X in the last year.
If you want beautiful fonts, that's what you need. Nothing else compares.
AppleWorks reads typical office documents, but has trouble with the really esoteric features, such as multiple columns and the like. Sadly, I wound up purchasing Mac office for that reason.
I remember trying StarOffice and thinking it was almost eerily like Microsoft Office. It actually was such a close resemblance that I hated the thing.
D
Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...)
/Most/ wallpaper is just a .jpg, or .bmp, or something, so should be fine, but again, there are specialized software for it. /However/, most of that specialized software is either so you can't copy the backgrounds w/o registering the software, or so you can have multiple backgrounds rotate. P2P apps commonly have alternatives, or are being ported, but what p2p apps are you using at your work? Evaluate what your people use, and if it's not illegal by work standards, see if there is a free alternative, if not, then you can be pretty sure that 90% of the people won't run un-authorized programs.
Some screen savers are cross-platform, and some have alternatives, but some are Windows only (or Mac only, as the case may be).
This is the kind of thing that -will- have to be planned, and to get the kind of support you want, you should enlist the help of others in your organization.
First step. Identify what people use now. Aside from the obvious Windows version $foo, you've probably got IE, Office, etc. Also identify other non-Microsoft applications that people use that still require Windows.
After you've figured out what apps you have to replace, start looking for the open source replacements. Obviously for IE, you've got Opera, Netscape, Mozilla, Konquerer, etc. Grab them all, put them on a machine. Bring in some of your employees, have them test out browsers. See which one works best for them (or, give them the option). Grab StarOffice or OpenOffice, and sit them down, show them how it works. Get their feedback. If SO/OO doesnt cut it, look for other options (KOffice, AbiWord, WordPerfect, etc). Do this for all the apps you can find Linux replacements for.
For the programs you can't replace, look into compatibility with WINE. I'd be willing to bet there are Win32 accounting applications in use that probably can't be replaced for free with a Linux version (however, since I haven't looked lately, I very well could be wrong...). So, your next best bet is to see if they work with WINE. That may be the only way to get them working.
You probably won't be able to replace every app in use in your organization with a free Linux workalike. Some may have to be grandfathered in WINE for a while. And you may not be able to replace every Windows install with a Linux install. But if you do your planning properly, keep other people informed and take their feedback, I'm sure you can get the support you need to push for a near-total migration. And when you do, don't stop looking. New apps come out all the time. Something you can't replace now may be replaceable in 3 months.
"To err is human, to forgive is simply not my policy." --root
I never said the users would have any special control of the system but if you switch them to linux they will be confused by many common interface differances regardless of the interface being KDE or Gnome.. Many things still pester me when I am using Linux.. Such as copy and pasting.. In windows you can use Ctrl C, Ctrl X, Ctrl V for Copy, Cut and past in linux Ctrl C often closes an app. In windows you can copy and past between almost all apps.. In linux it often depends what the app was developed with. I didn't say it was inpossible but it would be more difficult than just starting with switching the office suite.. Aslo the origonal question stats that they use some custom apps which may be troublesome to get working with Wine. Then again this is only my opinion.. Some distos such as Licorus do a pritty good job of mimicing the look of windows by including things like a KDE/SAMBA network nabourhood icon on the desktop.
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
Well, you must have realistic goals like: Reduce software costs, provide a stable environment, reduce support costs etc...
If you want to use Linux as the OS, you may get some opposition from the Windows fans. So, migrate using a gradual approach.
After you do all these things... the stability and usability of the user and server software should be evident and the switch to Linux as the OS should be fairly painless as there are Linux equivalents to the programs they've been running on the old Windows installations. You may find you have made some Linux fans in the office too!
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
After you get past the problem of needing PPC hardware instead of Intel, Mac OS X gives you some advantages. It's easier for Windows users to use than any other alternative OS. There are some well established commercial, but cheaper or at least less restrictive, alternatives to MS Office like AppleWorks, Nisus Writer, FileMaker, Deneba Canvas, Mariner, etc. And you've increasingly got open source stuff like OpenOffice.
Translation of MS Office documents is always a big issue and nothing is perfect at doing that. There are some global translators availible for Mac OS X which will allow you to convert MS Office to a variety of formats. MacLinkPlus is one of the oldest and most refined solutions for that purpose. There is a new competitor to it called VINC which promises to be even better for some kinds of formatting (I have not really had a chance to put it to a hard test yet). Another new and interesting one is AntiWordService. It works by way of Mac OS X's services archetecture and allows you to directly open Word documents in any Cocoa applocation which can read text.
My point is that Apple has been competing with Microsoft for the desktop a lot longer than anyone else has and that process has led to a very comprehensive set of solutions for breaking free of Microsoft, either part way or all the way. Linux developers should take note of both Apple's failures and successes.
Migrating away from Microsoft can be a daunting task. Microsoft provides software packages that tightly integrate with each other. If you use any of the special features it becomes even harder to migrate.
For Office products Star Office is a pretty obvious choice, as long as you don't rely on macros. If you do need macros you'll have to rewrite them to use the Star Office macro language. I'm not sure how hard that would be. I guess it would depend on how sophisticated your macros are.
Star Office does come with a Word Processor that will read Word documents and a spreadsheet program that I believe will read Excel documents. It also comes with a presentation program that reads most PowerPoint files. I don't know if the Adabas program will read Access files. I kind of doubt it but it is a fine database program in its own right.
I believe that there is a Word Perfect suite for both Windows and Linux also but I don't know much about it. Maybe others here would be kind enough to fill you in about the Word Perfect suite.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
You need to get your shift key under control.
Mandrake's site features an informative Business Cases page, which includes one article in particular that might provide some insight.
I changed one full department and may spread the change further by using the BSA's scare tactics and their current advertising campain. My boss heard one of their ad's that say "We'll fine you 100,000 dollars per incident, which can add up to millions!" and asked if we are compliant.... I honestly answered, that if a sane person did the audit, yes. but by BSA standards... no, and if we are ever audited they will leave with a fine on us even if we were 100% perfect... it's just like OSHA, they never leave without issuing a violation. I also informed him that cince the employees are allowed to take their laptops home there can be upwards of 20 violations per computer as we have no control over what the employees do at home or outside the building... I can wipe all the laptops, but then the salespeople will whine again..
he then asked me if there was another solution, and I wipped out my Redhat 7.3 laptop with open office..
Guess what... we're gonna switch to NON-MS.. all thanks to the BSA.
so basically... Use Microsoft's and the BSA's tactics to your advantage... push the fear,loathing and threats they are pushing... keep mentioning the 100,000 dollar fine PER incident. that the companies sensitive data will be accessable by strangers during the BSA visit, and the business disruption and public notification by the BSA that XYZ company STEALS.
works great..... Thanks Microsoft and the BSA for the BEST tools a Linux Advocate could ever want.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
since when is a 50 people company considered mid-sized? that's a small to really-small in my book.
i would tell your finance guy to figure out a way to *make* more money rather than reinstalling everyone's desktop to save a few bucks. if your largest expense your software expenses then your company is either really cheap or doesn't need the computers you own.
As someone that was forced to learn Linux, I can honestly say that you must never allow the average worker to use Linux on their desktop PC.
I tried to use Mandrake 8.2 for a month and Red Hat 7.3 for a week. I finally had to delete them both and go back to XP Pro.
If you force your users to use Linux on the desktop, they will never forgive you. You really have to be a pro to use Linux, or have a really good help desk.
Don't fall for the hype, Gnome and KDE are essentially useless. The first time a user tries to install a program and they are asked what QT libraries they are using, and they are told they will have to compile their own programs they will curse your name.
Never confuse feeling with thinking.
It's a very thorough overview of all the major steps (technical, mental, emotional, you name it) that an office must pass through in order to successfully dump Microsoft. It'll be very helpful to your cause.
I surprised more people don't think of this. Using older MS products allows you to use older hardware. NT 4.0 is a fairly stable platform, and runs just fine on anything from a 386 on up.
Office 97 has all the functionality most users need.
Or keep your platform and just upgrade the apps. AbiWord 1.0.1 is great. May want to try OpenOffice.
Switching to Linux may be too difficult, but there is still a lot you can do.
Do the servers first. Use stable no-nonsense apps like Samba, Bind, Sendmail, and go with a stable distro. I have used Redhat and had good support. After a while like that, when you feel ready, you can fire up some clients to test with. Get feedback early on about what works and what needs work from real users. Go back and retool. Rinse and Repeat.
Then after some time, make a cost benefit analysis of your own. Tweak the numbers. Figure in support costs. Codeweaver licences are 50 bucks a seat. Add in anything like unforseen funds for any incidentals, like bringing in a heavy Linux Guru. Don't try to short change a major conversion.
Then show it to your boss. This is the ammo he/she needs to sell it to the top managment.
Good Luck.
I may be bad with names, but I'll never forget your IP address
Everyone keeps talking about easier Windows is to use than Linux, espically for novices. I am not sure I agree. I do believe Windows in easier to set-up and get apps running on, but if he had someone who knew Linux then this person would do all the "hard" stuff and users would just click here for this app and click here for this app give the users some credit.
ATM's don't use Windows and people seem to work with them just fine.
Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...) on their new Linux machines, then get mad when you tell them it won't work.
For most IS people, I suspect, that's actually a plus.
I work at a helldesk and as a operations, i deal with a clueless userbase every day. Rolling out slowly will not make the clueless any smarter, it will not stop them from calling you up and asking how do i attach a file, etc... Sounds like at your corp that the IS dept runs the show. If you have management that calls in favors to kill your projects then youve got other problems. Management here dictates the change, not the IS group, if they want something rolled out, its out the door with no looking back, damn the users.
I will bend your mind with my spoon
Because of the stability and usability. Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
This is only your personal preference. I use both KDE and windows daily, and I prefer having the multiple desktops and clean GUI of KDE. Because I know how to use Linux (translate: know what I want to do), I find the KDE interface easier to use. I also find it more aesthetically pleasing - how many Windows boxes have active backgrounds?
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles.The main problem I've found with Linux is that it is a chore to configure, but once you've got it configured correctly, nothing breaks. Contrast this with Windows, where botched application installation can break pieces throughout the entire system. Correcting a bad install in Linux may involve little more than editing a text file; in Windows, you may have to reinstall the OS, reregister with Microsoft, and reinstall every application that you use. I've spent countless hours doing this, and even though I hate vi and editing text files, I have to admit that I prefer the Linux/UNIX method of editing a few lines to the 8+ hour complete system reinstalls I have to do with Windows.
Someone once said there's no such thing as a free lunch. With Linux, it's reliable, and it's free, but if you want to play movies, you may have to spend a substantial amount of time downloading and configuring the application, and then reading the documentation, fixing bugs, and recompiling. With Windows, you pay for a system which basically takes all of these things out of your way, but at great risk; if the software is buggy, or the install fails, it could break the entire system. There is simply no recourse for a botched install - if you're lucky, you might get away with reinstalling only the application(s) affected. If not, you could end up reinstalling the entire OS.
And I haven't even begun to talk about virus/security issues. If you value your data, Linux might be your only option (either that or a constant backup plan...)
When one thinks about the system as a whole, Windows is only suitable for people who want to use the PC as an entertainment device - people who rely on the integrity of their data and the security of their computer systems should not run Windows. Use Windows for games - use Linux for serious computing.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Yes, you are not alone. I've also seen it.
For me it looks like an obvious effort to promote Windown on Slashdot.
The interesting thing is that they all have the same types of messages:
1. Linux GUI sucks Windown are better.
2. Hilarious funny - but still favuoring windows.
3. FUD containing some grains of truth but still containing obvious (to me) false statements about Linux and/or promoting Micosoft.
4. Boys are boys statement regarding the Micosoft trial telling everyone that Mucosoft are only doing what all other are doing and should not be punished.
To me the messages seams to be too alike and too coordinated to be a circumstance. I think it is an coordinated attack on the Slashdot community to promote Microsoft and its products.
Just saying it like it are.
I would recomend being very carefull with any MS Office replacements. Make sure that they can really handle all the existing documents; specifically complicated Excel documents that may be fairly neccesary. I use both linux and SOT Office at home but I wouldn't dream of using it seriously at work...yet. It is a nice alternative, but it doesn't reliably import all the files yet. And I haven't seen anything that does. And I would kill someone if one day I came into work and found a niffty new desktop with brand new Linux and Star Office software and couldn't get the documents I'ld been using for years to work. All..that..data..
Before you knew it people would be hiding windows boxes, bringing in laptops. It would be anarchy.
Quack, quack.
That said, here's what I'd do:
1. Insure that you have real, live, hardcopy licenses to cover Win 2000 on ALL your desktops. Continue to use Win 2000, for years, until you can replace those specialized apps with a multi-platform application AND linux on the desktop is intuitive and comfortable to your users (through training &/or linux desktop environment changes). Hang on to those licenses and you shouldn't have to worry about an MS / BSA audit.
2. Migrate to Star Office or similar open source office suit. Some training involved, but really, most users will just type, spell check and print. For your power-spreadsheet-financial types, keep them on Office 97 or 2000 if needed.
3. Move every possible behind-the-scenes server task to Linux / BSD / whatever. File and print sharing: samba. Webserver : Apache. Email: sendmail, maybe even with phpgroupware. There are a TON of free / shareware mail clients out there. I like Eudora.
Lastly, good luck. Do as much as you can without your users having to know. You'll be hero-for-a-day with your accountants for saving $$$ and the rest of the company will be as happy and productive as ever.
Those green screens can't be beat for reliability and security!
That is all.
OTOH, its no problem for new users as they have to be trained to use company software anyway. In that case there really is no problem.
To be honest, once (normal, non-geeky)people get used to something, its hard to get them to switch. This is really not a question of which software is better or which is less of a financial burden. Case in point - I remember when we switched from a DOS version of 'Books in Print' to the Windows version. Although the Windows version was clearly superior, easier to use, and more powerful, users frequently griped, purely because it wasn't what they were used to.
YMMV of course, but I would start with new users and gradually make the switch.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
This is highly indicative of some sort of hardware problem (maybe the machine's overheating?). Rather than just assuming that it's XP and living with it, try hunting down the problem.
So use the Classic theme. Or head on over to ThemeXP and get a different visual style for XP. If you don't like the Luna interface, there are plenty of other options (none of which include "using the Luna interface and bitching about it"). You can turn off other "cutesy" things, too, like the fancy login screen (just turn off "fast user switching", or connect to a domain or AD), so there's no use complaining about those either.
Cygwin goes a long way to make porting your apps easier (if you don't mind including its runtime) -- though the ideal thing to do is write them with portability in mind in the first place. wxWindows helps if you have the necessary foresight, and porting GTK/glib apps to run natively on Windows isn't so hard either.
:)
Writing your apps in Java or Python (with a porable UI library) is a cheap way to get portability, too.
I've gotta' question how you run your system, though. For me, getting the ability to play Windows videos was a matter of making a one-line addition to my APT sources list and running "apt-get install mplayer-k6". Further, kernel-level issues have been pretty much unheard of for me for a few years now (since reiserfs was unstable -- that was ugly, but it also wasn't part of the official kernel). Having your entire machine go down due to memory-leaking applications leaves me incredulous, too -- the kernel will start killing apps when they exhaust available memory and swap, rather than risking deadlock, and memory-leaking apps just haven't been a problem for me (I live off Galeon, Evolution, emacs and vim, ofter with several JVM instances and a postgresql daemon going -- perhaps you run different stuff, though).
Small office, only around a dozen machines. We went with RedHat 7.1 and OpenOffice1.0. after getting hit with a threat for an audit by the BSA delivered by a local cop --we're in Taiwan.
We did have some bizarre problems with Open Office that we can't figure out, but we just used Star Office instead on those machines and so far there's no complaints although the OpenOffice screw up didn't look good. Overall, the staff definitely prefer it. Some of the younger staff actually have experience using Linux in their college dorms which we were very surprised to learn.
The management tends to panic over any little delay the transition causes, but as long as they see desktops and word processors they don't really know the difference.
I think it's important to mention that we've been using CodeWeavers RH rpms of Wine and we've found quite a few apps that worked fine with no adjustments from the standard rpm install that aren't in their database. In fact, it seemed most of the MS shareware type stuff that we wanted to keep worked just fine and that the database should be arranged so that it shows apps that DONT work rather than ones that DO. And what bears even more attention is that this self same database is filled with posts like --you dirty scoundrels will never get this app working under Linux. I find this totally bizarre. If you go check it out, look at some of the comments on Photoshop. Why would anybody take their precious time to go posting negative comments in such a place? It's bizarre how zealous people get over an OS.
First, I haven't found a good shared calendaring system that compares with the calendar bits in Exchange/Outlook. Server-based calendaring is important, even in smaller companies.
Second, MS Access. Shut up about MySQL for a minute. Access is a bit more than a data store (which is what MySQL is). It also has forms generation capabilities, makes pretty reports, and it's easy to use. It makes high-end end users able to write little "what are you going to bring to the potluck" applications quickly. It's not an enterprise computing tool, it's a personal computing tool. I haven't seen anything like it in the linux/open source world.
I'd love for someone to point me in the right general direction of replacements for these systems that don't have the heavy burden of MS software (a full-time on staff licensing manager).
Slashdot reported about a company whose office is now running Linux 100%. Read all about it.
Give your users 3-6 months and USD $1000 to those who have migrated to Linux by then.
A lot of things are different with the look and feel of KDE/GNOME and Windows. What do you tell a person who has no experience with Linux to do when Konqueror goes crazy as it often does? You cannot simply say "oh if your desktop locks up, hit alt-control-delete select explorer.exe, hit kill, the select file, new task and type explorer.exe"
/home/$username, they want something intuitive like "My Documents!" Laugh all you want, but "My Documents" makes since. It's where "my documents" are. My Pictures, etc. Microsoft has done so much more to make Windows easy to use than the KDE or GNOME teams.
I have been dealing with a lot of inexperienced users lately. Most of you people have no clue how difficult Linux is compared to Windows ME or XP. It gets even worse when you compare it to MacOS X. Linux is quite frankly a piece of shit on the desktop for the average user. It is too hard to get used to it. For those who are into it and know how to use it, it is great but that is a real minority. People don't want to be told that their files are in some directory called
If KDE 4.0 or GNOME 3.0 cannot be at least where Windows 98 or 2000 are in terms of consistency and ease of use, just give up on the desktop. Linux will never win if it cannot at least do that.
So many of you seem to think that you can explain to the average person basic UNIX concepts like setting permissions. The average user doesn't want to learn how to do anything that isn't remotely intuitive and sadly a lot of things in Linux just aren't. There are more people like my parents who can't even be bothered to remember where they saved their documents than there are people willing to learn how to use Linux in its current state. When they want to remove a program, they don't want to have to run KPackage and find a package called "Mozilla-base-20020517" They want to see remove Mozilla and have that remove Mozilla. They don't want to have to search through 50 fucking pages of documentation to figure out how to get their cd burner to work. They want to simply start up their pc, have it auto detected with minimal fuss and be able to drag and drop mp3s from their personal folder.
"Gradually" is the keyword to remember in making the move. 1 : Make sure that the users in the effected undertand the reasons on making the move away from Micro$oft. And "$" reason is a start but make sure you cam explain the metrics - i.e. annual liscensing etc. Spend time educating the users on the edd to switch over and you will save tons of time later and gain political support. 2: As a earlier poster mentioned, bring in the changes in phases. Ween off users away from Word, Excel and install Linux/Star Office in parallel. From experience, most people will complain when on changing from Excel and Outlook. Excel is not too much of a proble because Star Office's version is almost as poerful BUT not user friendly. Outlook is a tough one to drop - we had a lot of resistance from our staff on this. The integrated calendar/scheduling/email has an almost narcotic hold on some users. Star Office does not come close unfortunately. There may be some alternatives out there - at this stage I have not reseached them Perhaps other posters can help in this area. 3.Run ongoing seminars and be quick with answers to any questions. Once installed and the swith date is impeding - make sure you keep on winning the audience. Remember - the audience is only with you till the next problem. Many other companies are contemplating the move - it makes sense and you are not alone. Check out : http://www.linuxandmain.com/essay/hari.html
I've switched to Open office.org (OO) a year ago and wouldn't go back to MS Office if they paid me. I'm writing a thesis with it and haven't experience the glitches that made me switch in the first place. I actually consider OO superior to MSoffice, except on the speed issue.
I think you can get ordinary desktop users to switch to linux, if I can do it alone (with absolutely no knowledge of programming I installed Mandrake) then users accompanied by an inhouse resource person shouldn't have any major problems.
I'd say the most important part for office apps will be initial document conversions and afterwards with MS documents from other organisations. You must absolutely control this, because scrappy conversions from office docs to openoffice docs simply discourage desktop non tech users like me. The learning curve from MSoffice to OpenOffice isn't that bad, OO is pretty intuitive and has some features that MS doesn't and that now I can't do without. For the rest as others have said, evolution for email, mozilla for browsing, xmms for music etc, they are tons of desktop apps. Costumize/personalize to the max each users desktop, that could even act as an enticement to get them to switch. And don't let them install anything, keep them away from administrative tasks.
I having been itching to do this.
My thoughts is that you should set up a server to run everything, users would connect with either xterms or VNC.
Get people used to Open/Star Office on their own machines and slowly start migrating people to the server. For most business people star office has everything so you don't need to run a desktop or WM just straight into staroffice from login.
Your company will eventually have a centralised machine that makes it a breeze for security/backup/admin work.
We have 45 users, most local but three remotes in other states. We recently took a look at Microsoft's pricing, calculated our costs over the next three years, and ended up converting to Lotus SmartSuite. If the current StarOffice had been ready in time, it would have been a strong candidate, too. Keys to the process:
- Bring the users into the decision, not only what software to use but why.
- 3rd party training for software other than MS Office is available, even if not listed in their course lists. Ask. Our local Productivity Point has personnel qualified to teach the Lotus software and has complete course materials, they just don't list it in their offerings because there's so little demand. They were delighted to teach the courses for our users, at very reasonable cost.
- Having a backup process leads to user comfort. We'll still have four people with MS Office on their PCs, mostly administrative assistants and a lead customer service person. Their primary purpose is to provide access to documents which don't get converted by the time we remove Office from everyone else's PCs and to convert documents from outside the company which for one reason or another won't convert to Lotus cleanly using the Lotus software. This is a real benefit to our users and we wouldn't have gotten their buy-in without being able to assure them that we weren't abandoning their old documents.
- Don't rush the process. We started out by giving our users 60 days to convert their old documents to Lotus. We'll end up giving them an additional 30 days on a case-by-case basis. We installed Lotus on user's PCs in addition to MS Office so they could get used to the new software gradually. Once a user has been to training we made it clear that all new documents were expected to be in Lotus format. They have both the incentive and the training to make the change and it is working out very well. On the other hand, there has to be a due date or nothing will get done!
Our users initially resisted changing and why not? Learning new software, even as simple a change as from MS Word to Lotus Word Pro, is intimidating to someone who views computers as a tool rather than a way of life. We overcame their resistance by putting the facts before them: the lifecycle cost of MS Office over the next three years vs. the lifecycle costs (including training!) of switching to Lotus, Corel, etc. The savings were really very dramatic, particularly for a company like us which tends to keep using old software for much longer than the vendor would really like. Since we're a pretty open company anyway and take pains to not only present financial information to everyone but teach them how to interpret it as well, this had an impact. When you put it like, "we can spend the money on MS Office software and upgrade desktop PCs every five years, or switch to an alternative and keep to our three-year cycle", everyone had the same answer. They *like* getting new PCs every three years. The admin assistants *like* using shiny new Thinkpads which they can take to meetings and access information or take minutes with wireless connections to the LAN, etc. All of the productivity and convenience improvements we've made over the past five years took capital to implement, capital which in no small part would have gone into simply maintaining the software they already had. They didn't want to do that.
Once the decision was made we immediately chose a dozen key users and sent them off to a special Lotus SmartSuite class we had developed with our local Productivity Point franchise. A combination of the Introductory and Intermediate classes, it assumed that everyone knew how to use a mouse, access pop-up menus, etc. and concentrated on the differences between MS Word and Lotus WordPro, Excel vs. 1-2-3, and Powerpoint vs. Harvard Graphics. The class lasted three days and we had a very enthusiastic (and very relieved!) team when they got back, confident that they knew what they were doing and how to do it. They've been evangelists to the rest of the organization to the point where people were competing to get into the next class! A month into the process, people were competing to see who could be more 'MS Office free' and new documents were all being generated using the Lotus software. That was a month before the deadline! Now when someone from outside the company sends us a Word document (non of which, by the way, we've had the least trouble converting to Lotus,) people grumble about how 'backward' other companies are. Those who have regular contact with MS Office users outside the company are now evangelizing them and rumor has it that at least a couple of our business partners, faced with the same costs we were facing, are considering the same move away from MS Office.
The key is not that the Lotus software is so good but rather that it is good enough and *much* less expensive (and a key to that is that we buy IBM notebooks and desktop PCs, mostly because of their terrific technical support, and SmartSuite comes free with them. A real savings, that!)
Difficulties in our project:
- Some MS Office documents do not convert very well to Lotus. Most Word and Excel documents do (in the case of Excel, usually needing at least some clean-up by hand,) and Powerpoint presentations don't convert nicely at all. Don't even think about converting MS Access to Approach (but then, think about it: do you really trust anything more complex than a grocery list to Access? If its really important, shouldn't it have a real database behind it?)
- Some people just don't like change. We've got a couple. Peer pressure works most of the time but we have one granite boulder who not only isn't going to change, is senior enough that it would take tippy-top management ordering him to before he would, and then he'd just sabotage it ("See? Told you so!") Not a real problem, though: he doesn't really use the computer for anything other than e-mail, anyway (and half the time he dictates replies to e-mail to his admin assistant.) His assistant is very happy with Lotus and buffers between him and the rest of the company, so it works out.
Good luck!
The show will demonstrate how small-mid sized businesses can save money and take advantage of the latest technology showing off such goodies as Bayonne, LTSP, X Terminal services, OpenOffice.org, and Evolution
If you are interested in what GNU/Linux solutions are out there for your small to mid sized office, come over to Segal Theater at CUNY Graduate Center, 34th St. and 5th Ave from 10am-5pm next Friday the 24th. [Free and Open to the Public]
This is a volunteer demonstration. With work like this, we are changing the face of New York. If you are interested in coming or helping, contact paulr at nylxs.com.
create a shortcut to the open office executable and drop it into your SendTo folder. WHen you want to opena document, right click on it, select SendTo, and click Shortcut to Open Office. Viola...
Of course, you may have to slog through a lot of paperwork and whining to get admin privileges long enough to set it up. But once it's in place, it speeds things up immensely.
There are some things you might consider when doing a migration. First, create some sort of printed primer that they can read on their spare time. In this document, you can explain some of the common Windows features they're used to and their new equivalents. Along with this, provide at least one machine (maybe even a lab) where they can come and get familiarized with the new environment. This gives users the chance to come and play with some of the things they're learning from their new primer.
Second of all, and this one is a little more far-fetched, you could provide copies of the OS, etc for them to take home. All you're out here is the cost of a couple of spools of CDs (depending on how many people you're supporting of course). The more curious users will take this opportunity to learn their new system. Some, of course, will not care. But, if you follow the above instructions, these people will have a lab they can go to to try things out if they get curious without having to go through an entire install, which can be intimidating. Those that do choose to go through the install, though, will be way ahead of the game since they have a more thorough understanding of what they're going to be dealing with.
Hi, I did not do a migration specifically, but I did support a company of
over 200 desktop Linux users including creating and maintaining the build
that was used and developing the support infrastructure.
Since Linux offers vastly more options in terms of administration and
management of a large deployment of workstations I think you are clearly
making the right choice, well beyond the mere savings in software cost.
My finding was that there are several key things which make the transition
work: providing users with a stable system with an ergonomic graphical
interface (such as KDE), providing good tools to match those that users
would expect, laying out policy from the top-level down about acceptable
document formats and standards to be used (this is *extremely* important
since one Microsoft user can try to force a whole department to switch to
his standard therefore policy *has* to be set about document and other
formats), and finally spreading the good news about open-source and
conveying to users a sense of enthusiasm that they are participating in an
important revolution.
Finally, I can say it amazed me when I say people who were not particularly technically adept and had never used anything other than Windows working with Linux with complete and total ease.
On the other side there will always be the "picky" user who perceives the switch away from the software they are used to as an imposition. I found that patience and spending extra time with such people could eventually win them over and instill in them the same enthusiasm for open-source that many share.
I really think Slashdot is going down-hill. How the heck does this guys problems even matter. This is NOT slashdot material. This is plainly here just to flame M$ and for the author to give woodies to all the M$ haters.
Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...) on their new Linux machines, then get mad when you tell them it won't work.
If you were doing your "anal administrator" job properly, this isn't a problem. You see, the anal NT admin would only allow the end user to use the mouse on their machine. Typing would require an admin password.
So the answer is to become an anal NT admin, then switch everybody to Linux when they are used to not being able to do anything.
Is this post not nifty? Sluggy Freelance. Worshi
Can you share what problems you had? I am considering this to, for very novice users. They will NOT be installing software, they will basically be using a few set applications searching the internet and doing limited e-mail. -ms2k
I think the real question should be "how do I -INTEGRATE- Linux into my office?" The trick is not to have it one day MS the next OSS, that's bruital. You want to be able to make it a gradual switch. If you're working with enterprise clients you'll never fully get rid of Windows unfortunately. There's no alternative for some of the tools used (like Visio, and full compatability with dumbass Excel sheets etc, and even some web portals that for some reason only runs under IE5).
What you can do though is start sunsetting MS based backend services. File servers, Intranet web servers, print servers. Eventually you'll be able to replace the voicemail system, and you'll be able to get some of the engineering crew on to Linux. Your mail server can be sendmail with Virus checking software.
There's really no need other than cost to move Joe Desktop User from Windows to Linux. You can have a tightly controlled desktop enviornment so that they can't install the latest and greatest virus etc...
So the "key" would be back end first, and then slowly move people off the front-end. Forcing people on to Linux is only going to make them mad.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
Just read the article. It's excellent.
Uh, you install Open Office or Star Office on the computer and remove Microsoft Office. Pretty simple huh?
But if you're users are using Access, you're pretty much SOL. Same if they are using Outlook and are connected to Exchange. If this is the case, you need to change your mail server first. See Bynari for a Linux-based group scheduling/email application. But even then, I don't know of any calendaring apps in Windows outside of Outlook. There may be others but I'm not familiar with Windows apps anymore.
Check out www.rhsd.net - the project is aiming to replacing the functionality of M$ application servers (Exchange, ADS, etc.) with Linux - and with an installation and administration that's easy enough for NT admins! This project rocks! Check it out!
i love phpgroupware. it not only does calendaring. you can check out a demo site i put up at http://alaya.net/gw note that this demo shows only a small portion of all the available applications that can be used
I agree with what most say about not worrying about the new licensing scemes from M$. You don't need to retreat from what you already have and you don't need to upgrade at this point. Vague threats of more cost later are ficticious: your OS and applications will last the life of your PC and new PC's come with new software.
If your Office is outdated (and this would only be in the regard the M$ keeps changing the file format so you would have to have a more recent copy to read external documents created on more recent systems), you can use StarOffice or OpenOffice to open (and convert, if you like) more recent formats. It works very well.
There's no need to be worried or really do anything just cause M$ is trying to stir up a panic. It's really M$ panicing about lost revenues.
What about the option no one seems to consider? Stick with what you have right now. It works today...it will still work tomorrow. Get out of the "gotta have the latest" mindset.
For most of what business users do, using software that is a year or two or five old is just fine.
As an interesting side issue, www.bivings.com is apparently running Apache on Linux, with MySQL behind it.
What do slashdotters think of free software (especially if you wrote or contributed to it) being used for immoral purposes ? It's sort of tempting to put a licensing condition in to make it illegal, but that would be incompatible with the GPL.
This is just a lot of FUD. Currently Linux Windows Managers are an easy transistion from Windows. In fact most Windows users will catch on quickly. The biggest train issue will be the Office Suite. Luckly most office suites tend to be a lot like MS Office in Menus and Commands to the move won't be as hard as expected. No retrain won't be a big problem. The problem will be the fear of moving from Windows to Linux that some of the Employees will have.
Let me guess...you're a college student, right? Probably at a technical college, even.
Have you ever tried to coach a 50-year-old secretary through just a small upgrade of one version of MS Word to another? It's a goddamn nightmare, and companies devote millions of dollars every year to retraining every time MS forces the latest version of Office and Windows down their throat. And those are incremental changes. Just because you can configure Gnome to have windows-like borders and icons does not mean that it will be an "easy" transition.
I wish I could say that I can't believe this kind of mindless cheerleading got moderated up to +5.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
First we don't really have enough info.
1 -- Are you on W2k? Win9x? NT4?
2 -- What do you do? Sales and marketing? Widget makers?
3 -- What about mail? What about calendaring?
Second the sane apporaoch would be to have at least three Windows machines on hand at all times, or have some sort of WINE/Virtual PC type program availble.
If the client Machines are Win9x either upgrade them to W2K or remove them from the network and add some sort of large media like Zip or Jaz drives. This is so when your Power Point Presentatioin simply will not open and/or looks like shit.
Next you really need to test the waters with your new OS. Does it have to be Linux? Could it be OS X (expensive but cheaper than MS (sort of)? Could it be SUN on Intel? Could it be FreeBSD?
Which Linux? Red Hat? Suse? Mandrake? Corel?
I think there's a lot more thinking for you to do.
Should you/Can you switch? Yeah probably. There's a lot of advice flying out there.
Why can't you simply stay on what you have and not upgrade? They can't force you to relicense your current SW (or are you already running XP?)
And what about mail? My guess is Mail is WAY more important that Office. That should be a top proirity. Switching from Outlook/Exchange? You've got trouble. I don't personally like them but the people that do are fanatic! What will you replace it with? The closest thing on Linux would be Lotus Notes. Notes ain't exactly fun on Linux at the moment. And Notes comes with it's own slew of issues, which as a Notes Admin/Developer I have some insight to...
I think your asking for a lot of work/trouble/aggravation and pain.
This
I have been in this same situation. My office wanted me to look into migrating from Windows NT 4 to Linux. The unfortunate part is that the cost of training your employees makes it far too expensive in the short run. As well the maintenance of training all new employees makes for even more hassle. Plus administering a network full of people using an OS they're unfamiliar with is hardly fun. Always keep in mind that the average employee will have enough understanding of Windows to perform the job they were hired for. They don't know Linux. Just keep these things in mind and don't go by the base cost of the OS'es alone.
Kleedrac
Sure we wang, can.
This is so true. I'm still in amazement when people tell me Linux is hard to use. How's that again? Two or three years ago when I did my first installs, yeah it was really tough, but now? A fresh mandrake install is incredibly easy to do, and it works like a charm.
Both KDE and Gnome are very easy to use once you start exploring. Click random buttons for half an hour, or have someone guide someone through the crucial points for 5 minutes, and you'll be just fine. My friends come over and use my Linux desktop all the time. No complaints at all, once they find out which icon means "Web Browser". In addition, I've managed to sell most of them on Mozilla after I show them tabbed browsing and popup killing. Sure, Linux can be harder than Windows, but that's when you want to really start configuring it, and then once you get over the initial hurdle it's a lot easier to configure something, if less immediately friendly.
All the pro-Microsoft sentiment around here is very very odd to me too. I'm sure there's astroturfing going on, but I'm also betting that it's a lot of people who haven't tried Linux since their last slackware install failed in 1996, but will trumpet WindowsXP or 2k as being rock solid.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Plan ahead. Change MS Office default file formats to friendly open formats now. Setup all servers to linux. Test users interest with Knoppix bootCD-OS. If Knoppix goes well with users install Win32 versions of favorite Open Source apps. Run your own audit of the company's win32 systems. Duplicate and convert propietary data files to open files (e.g., .doc to .rtf) by hand if you have to, but some folks may have automated it. Find special case win32 software needs, and see if wine will support. Then convert several users at a time, starting with the tech savy, and see if you can avoid mutiny. People have invested a lot of time learning one way, they hate upgrades, (remember the last of many Microsoft and Adobe upgrades?) so be patient when you upgrade your users to Linux desktop.
.rtf is easy. It will make all upgrades to OpenOffice much easier, and allow several version of MS Office to play nice, even if you don't upgrade. Years later you will be able to read old MS Office files, hooray!
.rtf to .doc is critical. The user is a tease, no email or code! But it is an idea that should be packaged.
/AH /ON /S > m:\filetreedump\box2tree.txt" on Win98, and goto to regedit and dump the registry to text file e.g., m:\filetreedump\box2reg.txt.
Someone needs to write a nice perl based evaluation tool to audit what apps and software keys everyone in the Windows network is running.
Changing MS Word users default Save file format to
As many have said:
Setup servers for windows file and print, web hosting, DNS, DHCP, and SMTP (samba, apache, bind, DHCPd and sendmail) in the back office. LEAF, LRP and CoyoteLinux firewalls are an easy place to start the conversion.
Try Knoppix BootCD-OS (debian) on every box, see if users can deal. It is complete Desktop with OpenOffice, Xmms, ogg-vorbis, Gimp, FreeCiv, and tons more on 700Mb CD-R. It auto-detects a ton of hardware, such as sound at each boot, and does not get installed to harddisk. It needs 128Mb Ram, or pagefile/swapfile/scratch disk on a box with less ram. If the user can't deal, eject the CD, and reboot back to MS Windows.
Setup each Win32 computers to run a script stored on a central server, at each boot. It saves a ton of work later.
Getting Win32 users into the OpenSource thing by installing Win32 OpenOffice and Mozilla on your current MS Windows install base. See how that goes with the users.
Convert your existing data from
Run an audit on your Win32 systems. Get a file dump e.g., "dir
Converting data is essential. Collecting data from users computer and registry, and inserting it into new email client, and Office apps should be automated, but no one has done it yet.
Wine testing for special apps is important.
After careful planning start rolling out conversions. This way you can convert data, support all the apps, and not loose users.
-Nathaniel
For this and many other reasons I believe this post is entirely bogus. MicroSoft should not pay this guy, he blew it.
Wow, thinking of going to Windows from Linux because you can't watch all yer videos?
How funny. I have no problem using mplayer.
You have applications that leak memory?
Use different applications or restart them when they leak too much.
Personally, I have no problems at all with the development environments in Linux and am more secure and confident with them than I am of comparable Window's offerings. Heck! One of the main reasons I originally came to Linux was because of the NON-robustness of the Windows and NT tools and underlying OS's. YMMV
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
We're a small development company in Mexico (7 employees, 4 of them developers) and we just did this. Pointers:
- Keep a reference manual around at all times. Everyone will keep asking questions about how to do everything from mounting a cd to changing the wallpaper. I've found that "Linux in a Nutshell" by O'Reilly is quite good for the shell inclined people.
- Have at least one or two experts you can go to available at all times (hire them if you don't have them).
- Migrate someone first. Test apps and everything your company uses with him. THEN consider migrating everyone else.
- Search for the alternatives. We found kde to be more adequate to our needs, installed OpenOffice (works great), a messenger app (Msn4Lin, based on ccmsn -- borsanza.com. For development (we mostly do java and web related development) we tried eclipse, but found netbeans more mature. For graphics (I'm the graphics guy) I'm taking a crash course on gimp (to replace jasc's Paint Shop Pro) and am just becoming productive after two days. - Standardize your installation. We're all using mandrake 8.2 standard install with choice apps thrown over it. We all run an ssh server so when a machine hangs (this is development, after all) to the point that the keyboard no longer works, someone else logs into that machine and kills x. Cool thing =).
- Post all the latest tips, tricks or installs in a visible place. We (the developers) are all in one room, so we just scrawl on the blackboard for everyone to see, but for a bigger company you'll need better organization.
This has been useful to us. They're mostly common sense tips. Hope they help you.
Overcaffeinated. Angry geeks.
It's not the users that will have the problem, it's the admins. But since they're tech people, they should be able to retrain themselves or you can bring in new people if they don't already know anything besides Windows. The users will have relatively few problems once they're shown where to point and click.
-N
Every time the krez virus (or other nasty examples) hit, it's a Microsoft virus. Every time you need to do a MS security patch, just mention it is a Microsoft security patch. Every crash, BSOD, is a "windows" crash. Don't be obnoxious. be subtle. They might get the idea.
If linux is so great, point out why. Smile and say, "ahh...i'm so glad that I have all of these great, low-cost of free tools that are so useful." Or, "*happy sigh*...popups sure do suck. Glad I don't ever see popups with mozilla, and no aol ad's with gaim. life is good in linux." That, and virtual desktops are so useful. and consider that maybe going windows -> "windows-like WM" -> linux isn't the idea, but perhaps a jump to a fast, wonderful system OTHER than KDE or Gnome might be fun? It's just a thought.
Good luck.
My fiance switches as soon as i get Linux connected to her dialup ISP...Mr. Perens, where can i get good HP Pavilion softmodem drivers??? : )
Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?
Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
.dlls and then blames Microsoft for the OS being unstable.
We all have our personal tastes. I feel more comfortable on my Linux box than my Win2k box, meaning I'm using almost exclusively my P2-350 instead of my 1GHz + kitchen sink box. I've never had it crash, unlike my Win2K box which crashes regularly, and I can customise it so easily (eg I like the close window widget to be on the left of the title bar so (a) I don't hit it accidentally and (b) it's the icon normally expose in windows down the stack).
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks.
I much prefer Galeon to IE, with tabs and the ability to block images from a source with a single click.
While making the move to the semi-professional desktop, linux became more unstable (I don't know how many times I've grunted after installing yet another 2.4.x kernel)
The solution is perhaps not to keep upgrading to bleeding edge kernels? I wouldn't know where to start upgrading a kernel and don't feel any loss.
and certainly couldn't keep up with the gains made by windows on the user friendly side.
Again personal taste. I find it not very usable, apart from the universal cut and paste (not being able to paste between a KDE and Gnome app really annoys me).
Before playing some video I still have to say a prayer...
Weird, I have the opposite experience. WMP barfs at about half the files I try and play, but mplayer plays them all flawlessly. I can also real-time resize mplayer to any window size I like, which I cannot figure out how to do in WMP.
Right now, I can't keep my development pc running for more than a week because of some application that leaks memory and uses up my entire memory after a few days.
So let's look at the evidence: constant installing/uninstalling of kernals, video keeps falling over, apps leaking memory like a sieve... Sorry but it sounds like you've gone in and screwed up your workstation. Back up your work and reinstall and you should have a rock-solid desktop that plays video far better than your Win box. I mean it's like someone that goes into a Windows box, randomly deletes a load of
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
The "network device" workstation is dead. Sun knows it. Larry Ellison knows it. Everyone who has tried to push this model knows it.
My only advice is not to be in the room when the CEO concludes that the company must go back to PCs.
Hmmm. /. need to get some fresh air from time to time. Might I recommend here as a good place to start.
I like Windows XP. It's stable, quick, runs the software I need, looks nice. Hell, I can even play games on it at lunchtime. And I mean *real* games! Why can't I be allowed to say this without:
a) Being told that Linux is better on the desktop (it isn't, for me at least)
b) Being accused of being a Microsoft corporate junky (I'm not, at least not when I last checked)
Just seems a little odd, if you ask me. I think people on
I made the switch in a small law office a few years ago, before the KDE GUI was as good as it is now. I also learned a lot about how different users handle the transition. As others have mentioned, the cultural problems are far worse than the technological issues. Here is what I learned.
0. Find out what you have valid licenses for, and what you don't. If you don't have a valid license for it, consider the cost of going "legal" and switching over to a Linux-based solution. Finding out what has to go first will make many of the decisions for you. Sad to say, but the license/BSA problem is going to be your biggest.
1. Switch the server over to Linux first. This can be accomplished without the users even knowing about it, and servers and their software are one of the most expensive items anyway.
2. Figure out what Windows desktop functionality that you REALLY, REALLY need, and find Linux equivalents, preferrably ones with Windows counterparts, like Open/Star Office. Note, your users will come in four varieties:
A. Computer illiterate
B. Power Users
C. Normal Users
D. Microsoft Junkies
Believe it or not, the Computer Illiterate users will have the easiest time in the transition. If you set KDE up correctly, they will see an icon, click on it, find their program, and move on. I was truly amazed when I saw this happen in real life. I never got a call from one of the computer illiterate users. Several didn't even notice a change at all. These were the ones I worried most about. I shouldn't have.
The Power Users will have more trouble, but they will overcome their problems (usually without much coaching) and will appreciate Linux when they see what they have to work with. They will like and appreciate the tools, stability, and control that they can exert over their desktops.
The Normal Users will go along, because they are sheep anyway (sorry, but it's true). They may grumble, but they will adapt, especially if they know that it will help the company keep them employed.
The last group, the Microsoft Junkies, are those who fancy themselves as savy, but who are really next-to-illiterate. Unfortunately, these are the people who think the Microsoft way is the only _proper_ way for things to be done, and that any other way just isn't "right." These people will drive you nuts. Incidentally, lumping this group as "Microsofties" is not fair. They would have acted the same way if they were first taught on a MAC. For these people, the first way is the "right" way, regardless of which one is first.
3. Carrots work. As one of the other posters mentioned, start small and let it spread out. People fear the unknown, but if others make the transition, it will alay their fears that a transition is possible in the first place. Secondly, once some have made it, they will have more incentive to do it so as not to be "left behind" or so as not to appear to the boss to be inadequate, stupid, or not accommodating to the company.
Better yet, be prepared to give more privleges or goodies to those who migrate to Linux. This is even more incentive for the migration. If users feel that they will get more out of it (that they "get something") they will be more inclinded to accept the transition. Linux has plenty of freebies that can entice users, such as games and such that don't come out of the box with Windows.
4. Sticks work too. This is a harsh tactic, but from a business standpoint, it cannot be refuted and it will work. Tally up the costs of keeping Windows and attendant MS software (i.e., what it will take to get/keep legal and pay for the maintenance fees and attendant hardware upgrades). Tell the users that they can keep Windows if they offer to pay the difference in costs to the company (out of their paychecks). The company is making a perfectly good offer to support their work (for free) if they transition. Otherwise, they pay the difference. Once the employee sees the cost differential, and they know that they have to pay for Windows, then almost all of them will get on the Linux bandwagon. Those that don't, well, they pay and it is their responsibility to get/stay legal. Your company is still on the hook, but they can force the users to supply the correct documentation. Note, even if they do stick with Windows/Office, your company will transition to better (non-MS) file formats for internal documents, and cause the reluctant workers to do more in order to keep their work viewable by the rest of the company. This is akin to making smokers go outside to puff away.
Good Luck!
for novice linux user, i can't set the fonts in any of the linux browser right under RH7.2, closer to windows' setting. What am i missing?
Upgrade everyone to Linux and have 1 or 2 "Terminal Servers" with NT or 2000. Each user could have a copy of the Citrix client on Linux. If they ever get a document they can't convert or in a pinch they need to do something in a windows environment they can login to the TS and do their business. (I say this not noing the cost of such a setup -- but we have a TS farm at work and it works great when we need to test our webapps on IE for the legions of MS clones out there.)
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Been going this way for about half a year now. Not to discourage you, but just to keep a reality check.
:-(
Openoffice/staroffice looks like it is choice number one, but you cannot be to sure about it, since MS is changing its document format every now and then (mostly now). Since you can also install it on win32 it will make things easier for your users.
Actually that is probably the most difficult part about your plans: getting your users to like it.
They spent a lot of time getting used to Word, Powerpoint and Outlook and are now faced with totally different product. They will probably demand training and you have to be honest about the time they lose versus the money saved by moving away from MS.
I cannot tell honestly what will be cheaper in this case
If you really want to move away from all the MS stuff (including windows) you face bigger problems. I would really suggest you do this in a second phase. Linux is the alternative here (Mac being too expensive in your case). Mozilla is a good browser, but not IE compatible, which means there is a lot of sites that will not run (I know this is a problem of the site, but tell that a user). Evolution is a great Outlook replacement and does even connect to Exchange (if you are willing to invest). If you move away from windows you will also need Codeweavers Crossover plugin to have at least a real word preview and naturally the browser plugins.
As an administrator you will be able to save a lot of time using Nixes. Just think of all the tools that come with it!
For myself, as stated at the beginning, I'm so close that I only reboot to windows if I want to play a game. Good luck,
Trip.
The site where: "I'm right, as long as you ignore the things that prove me wrong", became a valid method of debate.
Why would you want to limit yourself like that?
I'm doing something like this on win2k and it does not co-operate. I'm using GIMP, Mozilla and Putty to make my life a little easier in the Serfdom. The aps don't run as well under win2k as they do under linux and I suspect M$ messes with them. Gimp crashes often, and the M$IE only corporate crap does not co-operate with Mozilla at all. Hell, Accrobat is even getting messed with. It has had print methods switched under it several times it is forced to wait about two minutes before the OS responds to print requests. What you end up with is all the M$ aps looking good and users blaming their problems on the new software instead of the old junk that has always sucked.
Worse, your users will not have alternate methods of getting things done. You can't set up shell scripts and what not to replace thier horrid VBA and Macro trash. They have figured out the best way to get things done with the limited tools M$ has given them. If you take these tools away without giving them better alternatives, they will not be happy.
Try setting a few of your users free for a while first. Get a group of volunteers that are willing to work with TWO computers on their desks to help you out. The usual "power users" will be there, and most of them are sick of M$ shit. Give them some nice shiny new Linux boxes and let them show you the way. I know that I would be doing that if our IT group did not forbid anthing but their M$ cruft on the network.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
It's actually ironic that you mention this. I was talking to one of the computer science professors just this past week, and I asked him why they don't offer such a class to the computer science and computer engineers (as it is, they just *assume* all the students know linux after a 30 minute intro w/ handout). He agreed that they definetly need it. And, as a side note, the computers in the lab that *do* run it are configured HORRIBLY. (Ever try running KDE w/ Konqueror on a 233? -- DON'T) Not exactly conducive to getting the students to appreciate it.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
I've been playing around with Linux as a desktop machine at home, mostly because I want to learn Linux as a server tool. For that purpose, Linux is great because, on the desktop, so many things don't work that it is forcing me to learn the sytem.
Among the most annoying problems, so far:
A lack of a one-touch installation tool.
No built in java support in browsers.
KDE is now unusuable becuase the "kicker" panel has a bug that makes it unusable, and consumes all cpu cycles to boot.
Telnet won't work properly. I have to connect to the NYPL's telnet at nyplgate.nypl.org quite frequently. Unlike Windows, Linux's telnet won't display the screens properly and frequently hangs.
Connecting via ADSL is quirky.
Lack of high-end products like Adobe Photoshop, Quicken, Turbo Tax.
These are just a few of the lovely issues I am having. In my case, it is not so bad as it forces me to get more into the guts of my system, which is my main goal. Unfortunately, I still will need to depend on my windows machine for productive work.
Don't believe the hype. Linux is not ready for the desktop. Windows is worth the extra $50-$200 per desktop alone if nothing less than to avoid the headache factor.
And BTW, I would love for some advice on all the problems I am having.
evanchik.net
Given the complexity of the licensing costs of Windows XP and Office XP, as well as the server load, one option to look at would be Apple hardware running Office 10 (Which Microsoft themselves have said is the best version of Office they have ever written - better than anything on Windows).
OS X is a full fledged Unix - so porting applications to it generaly involves just a recompile.
As servers for File sharing, Mail, etc either expand your current Sun system, look at using a Linux server, or perhaps look at an Apple as well.
Generally networking Macs is very simple and quite robust, so support should be easier than you might expect.
As a further benefit you gain some protection from the constant security patching cycle on Windows.
Finally you also get physically attractive systems (new iMacs for example), at reasonable price points, and with hardware that your CFO should be pleased with as well (retains value longer than typical PC hardware).
For your laptop users, the Apple laptops are some of the nicest on the market, and offer the full array of wireless networking, dvd etc that your users may demand.
-- Join us in Chicago May 1-4th for MeshForum -- writer, historian, tech geek, entrepreneur, internet junky since '91 --
I'm not sure why everyone does not make anonymous tips to the BSA all the time. Let's face it, no one can win a BSA audit. M$ has made it impossible to control what software gets installed. Their ever shifting license practices require an army of accountants and lawers to keep track of. Someone is going to have a copy of Paint Shop Pro on day 300 of it's 30 day free trial, and you are toast. If every company were to anonymously tip the BSA off and log the tips, the BSA would be unable to respond and their inaction can be taken as copyright and tradmark abandonment. In anycase, the true cost of ownership of non free sofware would become apparent.
I am not a lawyer, I have morals. Most people just think I'm insane.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Is it possible for a random newbie person-- such as the average former windows user at an american business-- assuming the OS installs right and they don't have to do any mucking about with drivers, to just sit down and start using the GUI portion of GNU/Linux without having to learn any of the command line?
Yes, it is.
In 2000, we hired a new web designer; she knew HTML, and did all of her work by hand. She used paintshop pro for graphics, and a text editor for the HTML.
She'd never touched Linux before, and it took her all of 5 minutes to learn what she needed to be productive under KDE (1.1) - it basically consisted of "here is how you log in, here is the icon for the text editor, and here is the icon for Gimp."
Is it possible to migrate an office, or possibly your mother, to Linux without it ever being necessary for them to learn how to use xterm?
Yes, it is. My mother's computer dual-boots between Windows and Linux, and she says that she very much enjoys Linux, as it doesn't crash. She primarily uses Wordperfect under Linux, and uses Windows to play scrabble and surf the web (she has a winmodem, so she's stuck there.)
Last October my step-father asked me to remove Windows from his computer, and install Linux; he used it like that until last week, when he bought a "home design" package (Windows-only), and asked me to install it for him (so now he dual-boots too.)
The short answer to your question is "Yes, it's possible for the average user to use Linux without having to use a command line."
Well, I have > 50 karma, have been here > 2 years, and am a MCSE who runs a windows shop. Go figure. I am a advanced bsd newbie who uses bsd for things like syslog, mrtg, firewalls, tftp,ntp, etc.
Anyhow, a lot of the anti MS stuff here is lame because it is old and just not true. Complaining about NT/2k/xp's stability is lame because stability isn't a problem. Complaining that you need to reboot a NT 4 box to do anything *is* valid. Complaining that you have to reboot a nt/2k/xp box when you apply a web broswer patch *is* valid.
Some of the complaints about OSS software are valid - tons of people are telling the guy to install openoffice, but from reading the comments, it sounds like only about 20% have. So who can really say how well it will read ms office files? OSS still has issues - it needs to support all the comoon media functions out of the box to make casual users feel comfortable. Not being able to render pages properly, open a complex excel doc or open windows media files will just confirm their suspicions that their new os is just a silly management trick to save a few bucks.
ostiguy
Quite frankly, you have to give some credit to MS. They've improved their efforts on the boards. It used to be pretty easy to spot, but it's getting tougher...
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
Ximian is a great alternative.. its simple enough that anyone can figure it out, comes with really good free Office products like..
.doc format.
Evolution: almost exactaly like Outlook.
AbiWord: reads wrights in MS
Gnumeric: reads and wrights in Execel format.
Galeon: better IMHO than ANY other web browser.
AND ALSO you can use Open Office, if those dont preform well enough.
almost frogot to mention.... all that above wont cost you a penny.
I'm the BOFH at a municipal government and we have been working on this for some time.
I would recommend starting with the backend server and network systems. Swapping these systems (DNS, DHCP, email, backups, file, print, etc) out for Linux/BSD systems can be done seamlessly so your users never know (other than everything runs better and faster) and is a smaller task in scope than everything to Linux.
If you can convert your backend to Linux/BSD (Solaris even) you can break the MS stranglehold on your wallets - break down the servers and you can break down the server licensing (sql = nt license, nt cal, sql license, and sql cals) and the CALs which should be a major cash savings.
You should also look at the cost savings, security benefits, and flexibility gained from staying away from proprietary software (PHB love that stuff).
The next step would be to move as many applications to an open source web based model (if you have developers around - may take some work looking at various projects) as you can.
The hard part is going to be the users. Most of them think os = windows. If you can get them used to the idea of computer diversity (Macs may be an avenue to introduce this idea) and get them some exposure to StarOffice/OpenOffice, Mozilla etc you can get them used to the idea of running non-MS applications and non-MS OS.
In our experience once people actually use StarOffice or Mozilla and they see that they are OK and they tend to be pretty open to running OS X, Linux and so forth.
Your ace in the hole may be to find businesses, gubmints, etc in your area that are working on the same thing. It is much easier to get acceptance of using open source when business X or Foobar U is doing the same thing.
We are working with county govt, school districts, universities, etc in the area - they are tired of paying out of their ass for MS and they want something else. Many of their organizations are much larger than we are but we have many of the same problems. The benefit is a partnership where everyone works together and collectively things move much more quickly that in a small group.
Worse case scenario would be Linux/BSD backend which saves you money and time. Best case would be Linux everywhere. Most realistic case may be to have small controlled pockets of MS in your network (those pesky vendors who walk in and ask for a dedicated NT/2000 box for their apps) and the rest Linux.
As for the local media, they could care less. You will be lucky to get a page 31B description if your building burns down. Software licenses? Are you kidding? These are the same apes that take BSA advert money and push out M$ propaganda about "computer" mail viruses, software and music "piracy" and all that. Chances are, they will cheer your demise. Notice how few "news" institutions have picked up the story of BSA extorting hundreds of thousands of dollars from PUBLIC SCHOOLS nationwide!
Your better option is to just purge the M$ BS and be done with it. Gasp! Email, text editing, type setting, spread sheets and all that does work better without Bill Gate's blessing.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
IMHO, the wizards hide what is really going on and in doing so remove the opportunity for the user to reall understand what the OS is doing. Especially when you have to learn how the wizards work from distro to distro.
For the end user, wizards are fine, but should deal with the most critical data only and not get into the minutia when possible.
One last point, I've heard people saying that one should keep biz users on Windows. I have a friend in finance (some options stuff that I don't really understand). All of the guys in his office use Sparc stations because the algorithms they run are very math intensive and Windows on Intel won't cut it. I have NO IDEA if they've tried Linux or BSD. The point is that average users ABSOLUTELY can use those "nasty, hard *nix systems". End users really aren't THAT dumb...
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
At a comunity employment and training facility in .au, I am doing volenteer work building, installing, and configuring redhat workstations, and training people to use them. We are doing half of the office and training rooms first, waiting a month for peoples views on linux, and then moving the rest back if they like it
Gnome wasnt built in a day.
http://people.trustcommerce.com/~adam/office.ht
http://desktoplinux.com/articles/AT9664091996.html
If I were you, I'd try taking a look at www.mandrakebizcases.com and see how other shops have done it. There are many examples of businesses making the switch.
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."
We've got a TOTAL M$ office here. We're talking Win2K on all the servers and desktops, Exchange 5.5, SQL 7, ISA, Citrix, Visual Studio Apps (in VB) everywhere, integrated with VBA in Word documents, Office automation, nothing but MCSE's and MCSD's on staff. How ever do we get out of it?
;-)
Step one is become really comfy with Linux, you haven't already done so. Heck, get Linux for Dummies if you gotta; or people here can suggest some good newbie books.
Step 2, build a free workstation, load up Star Office and Netscape, and see how much of your old stuff will run.
Step 3, build a free server, and see how much of your old server functions you can get to run.
Step 4 - here's the sneaky part: After steps #1 - 3 you'll know what migrates and what doesn't. Instead of jumping through hoops to migrate everything - start phasing out everything which won't migrate anytime soon. Don't put any more work into other than keeping it reasonably alive. Or even purposely sabatoge it every week or so if you're pressed for time
And instead of trying to find a Guinea Pig to run a whole Linux workstation - start installing cross platform applications on people's Windows workstations. A good start is to roll out Netscape or another email program "to protect the company against all those Outlook viruses". Then just keep introducing more and more cross platform apps on peoples desktops - not instead of, but in addition to M$Office. Make a point of sending around important documents which will open in these programs by default.
The idea of course is to slowly build up your users familiarity with apps which run on Linux, so that when you've weeded out all the stuff that can't be moved over - they'll barely notice it when you switch the underlying operating system. The main thing is to try it as soon as possible, so that you don't make more work for yourself by putting development time into projects or features which won't move over easily. Make sure you're staff *neglects* those things, while supporting the he11 out of the ones you can move over. Do the simplest ones first - if there's a really crucial Windows only feature you need - odds are there will be plenty of folks working on a way to migrate it to Linux while you're moving over the easy stuff. And figuring out what can be migrated on the servers, and what "isn't really needed anyway".
Naturally there are some things which aren't going to be ready to move to Linux by the time you are - but if you've played your cards right (oh it's just *such* an instable product - we can't seem to get it working right); your staff will have ceased relying on those products by the time you take them away for good.
And it never hurts to relay panic-mongering information about Windows security holes, privacy breaches, pending price increases, and BSA audit horror stories to the appropriate channels. Or to take on yourself to convert vital documents to formats only open software can read. Believe me, Microsoft wouldn't hesistate to do it you...
Oh wouldn't it be nice if Red Hat and Netscape release a Linux "assimilation" package, that would just convert a whole M$ network to Free Software through a nice little Tux Wizard interface? Mmmmm, I'll bet they could recoup their costs just by offering same day delivery of the discs to people on the BSA's mailing list.
Also, if possible, start converting old docs to the new formats-- that way, it's in a documented open format and you'll have your data no matter what, not a ???mystery??? binary file that can't be read by anything.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
If you are looking for cheap, maintainable, stable software to replace your current Windows environment, then look into this :
Slackware Linux.
KDE.
OpenOffice (maybe StarOffice or Hancom Office or KOffice).
Mozilla (or maybe Netscape 6 or Opera).
The GIMP.
XMMS.
MPlayer.
GNUCash (or maybe Kapital).
Evolution.
NEdit.
Or if you need anything else, check out Freshmeat.
Grr i hate fucking scoop sometimes.. as I was saying the BSA has no athority to enter your business, unless they have the US marshals with them and a search warrent. i would not worry about the BSA.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
Generally speaking, with a nice fast server, the "old" PCs will run applications faster and quieter and more reliable than they will Windows... so the Linux environment (with its newer applications) because much more attractive.
It took about 12 months to convert every one to the this way of working. Some users even have the latest KDE with old 486 PCs as their terminals and are quite happy.
First Step... Migrate to Star Office or Open Office which avoids the largest part of the MS tax and show how easy the change is. Also give all staff to load SO/OO at home for free. 2nd Step go to Netscape/Mozilla or Opera for browsing and mail. 3rd Step take a kick back from MS as you change it all back or follow the path of righteousnous and install Linux.
Let them play with / evaluate it inside the familiar Windoze evironment.
Tell them that as soon as they are happy to use the Linux environment all the time the company will get rid of the Windows stuff and share the savings made 50 / 50 with the staff.
Tell them the truth that it's an intelligent career move too.
The best way to migrate from a MS environment to a Linux environment is to HIRE a linux company that will do it for you and provide support after.
In the US at this point nobody does it better than Red Hat. I suggest you call or email them for info.
JM2C (just my 2 cents)
~~~Please pass the salt, I hate unsalted MD5s
Corporate Time from Steltor www.steltor.com. Runs on Linux, Windows 2000, Solaris. They have clients for Linux, Mac and Pcs and it blows Exchange calnedaring out of the water.
This is something we've been looking at doing for our offices as well... we only have one problem. We can't find good information (or even any really) on enterprise administration.
How do you centralize logins? i've heard and read about pam_ldap etc. but i haven't been able to find examples of anyone who's actually done it.
We need centralized user management and file management... something equivalent to the NT domain model, where the entire group can be managed by changing one datastore.
The peices to put something together like this are all out there, but i can't seem to find anyone who's done it.
help?
-T
Old truckers never die, they just get a new peterbilt
In my case, I would consider it unfortunate, but not worth getting hung up about. In the balance, releasing software that is free for any use whatsoever, and redistributable under quite generous terms, seems to be a net gain to society no matter to what nefarious purposes it can be put.
Incompatible in letter and in spirit. Lots of people claim to "have no use for source code", but they can still benefit greatly from open source software in that its use is completely unencumbered. With free software, unlike with Windows NT Workstation, you don't have to worry about whether your web server ever gets too many (more than 10) concurrent hits. You never have to think about whether a particular use is "commercial", "non-commercial" or "educational". You don't have to wonder when your license costs will start to increase, or whether your sweet volume licensing deal with the vendor will be suddenly cut off because you somehow manage to piss them off.
The moment I say "this you may not do with my software", potential users can no longer say "open source, no worries". They now have to comb through my exact license terms to see what they can or can't use it for, and wonder whether future restrictions could affect them when they wish to upgrade. That's in my mind a much bigger deal than someone using the fruit of my brain to evil purpose.
"How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
Hmmm. I like Windows XP. ... Why can't I be allowed to say this without:
a) Being told that Linux is better on the desktop (it isn't, for me at least)
b) Being accused of being a Microsoft corporate junky (I'm not, at least not when I last checked)
Jeese, perhaps because you are voicing your opinion on a pro-linux site. It truly seems inane to me to expect anything other than a pro-linux response here.
Yes this site is also about technology, innovations, and Cowboys, but expect zealots (and many regular users) to be a little tender when inadequacies in their OS of choice are uncovered.
Might I recommend here [therockalltimes.co.uk] as a good place to start.
Thanks, this site is hilarious.
just ask The Fifth Wave.
If you learned to drive on a manual transmission it's no harder then driving an automatic. But if you learned to drive on an automatic you're going to have to LEARN to use a stick.
I'm sick of people saying Window$ GUI is *easier*. The only fact that it's easier is that you can do A LOT more with other GUIs. Lets not confuse lack of functions with ease of use. You can dumb down any window manager to show a 'start' button and a simple menu.
*DrugCheese rants*
Why not transition to the OS option that even Microsoft describes as a "seamless transition". While Microsoft's continued support for cross platform compatibility between Windows and Macs isn't guaranteed, I am constantly switching platforms and supporting students who do the same and see very few compatibility issues.
I realize that buying into Macs has a hardware AND software cost, but if you transition the users who don't use Windows applications other than Office to flat panel iMacs and Office.X at $2,000 a seat, you'll likely save money during the machine and software's lifecycle and update your office's image at the same time.
Condsidering that I can have 1000 or 10000 machines installed w/ the same copy of Linux versus buying a copy of MS Windows for every last one of those computers, the costs seem to even out rather quickly. ;)
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
My friend called Microsoft for help with their licensee problems, in a hope to get some discount, because he heard an MCSE said Microsoft always give favours to valued customers.
Microsoft was so kind as to send an external auditor BSA to help with their licensing problem.
Later Microsoft sent an invoice to offer to help them waiving the legal liability for using unlicensed software that external auditor found out, if he agreed to sign a 5-year purchase contract.
Well, at least Microsoft had given audit for free....
Fjord said: Also check the how well specialized applications under wine. For most specialized apps, it's safer to run Win4Lin, the oldest Windows possible and the app. I run Project via a script that says
win C:/PROGRA~1/MICROS~2/OFFICE/WIPROJ D:"$@" which tells w4l to start and run project, optionally with a data file from my work directory. Other applications can be run via similar scripts, stright from the comand line, or from the Linux desktop if you write a Project.desktop file. By the way, Project also runs faster on Windows under Win4Lin under Linux han it ever did on the same hardware under just Windows.
davecb@spamcop.net
"The desktop computer industry is dead. Innvoation has virtually ceased. Microsoft dominates with very little innovation. That's over. Apple Lot. The Desktop market has entered the dark ages for the next 10 years, or certainly for the rest of this decade.
Eventually, Microsoft will crumble because of complacency, and maybe some new things will grow. But until that happens, until there's some fundamental technology shift, it's just over.
The two most exciting things happening today are objects and the web."
-- Steve Jobs (Sometime in the 90's)
Well, Steve was right. Microsoft is complacent and has basically assimilated every innovative idea and run the innovators out of business. Now there is nothing new to steal so they just bank their cash in the hopes they can prop up their stock in the future.
I am using this combo as my replacement desktop:
RedHat 7.3 (distro)
Evolution (mua)
KOffice/Open Office/Star Office (office suite)
Cross-Over Office (Run M$ Office 95 native)
Galeon (browser)
WINE
rdesktop (Windows Terminal Server Client)
Open LDAP for authentication
Samba (Connectivity with the Windows World)
This gives you a nice starting point for an OA (Office Automation) platform. The users can get around pretty well here and so far the favorite things are the browser tabs and multiple desktops. Under M$, users tend to stack windows on windows and the multiple desktop concept is a nice way to help them organize and work more efficiently.
Until we can get all the apps to the web or native under Linux, we have been using rdesktop to a Windows terminal server. This is a basically the equivalent of X windows for M$ Windows. It can be a little confusing for the user at first, but gets the job done for that odd application you just can't seem to live without.
Downfalls so far are floppy drive access. Teaching users how to mount/umount floppies to avoid trashing them is hard. Also, cut and paste never seems to work correctly between the various environments and drives me a little nuts. Not being able to install shrink wrap software. Custom firewall software/extranet plugins for e-commerce applications. Lastly, resistance to change and pushback is always present and you have to give users a carrot to get them moving.
We aren't out of the "Desktop Dark Ages" quite yet, but I think we can all see faint light in the distance. Currently, M$ is it's own worst enemy by pressuring everyone to pay up NOW!
I plan to put a webpage up soon, detailing my quest for the Linux desktop.
An end user in a corporate office should not be installing their own software-- thats IT's job. IT should compile the apps themselves just on principle.
You can have it good, fast, or cheap. Pick any two.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but since when are Windows and Office upgrades required? AFAIK, it's perfectly OK to still be using Windows NT and Office 97, as long as you paid for it in the first place.
I'd suggest StarOffice. So far, I was able to open any M$ Office document (with the exception of VBA code in them), and save in M$ Office format. There is also Windows version, which could greatly help in migration.
Hmm... Let me tell you what I think would be the best thing. Call everyone in for a meeting if you have that kind of swing. Entice everyone by making it a barbeque or something. Explain that you've been reading on the news that Microsoft and the BSA are doing some pretty nasty stuff that forces people to upgrade the computers, and that you're thinking about getting away from Office & Windows to something else, to save the company money.
By all means, start slow - and don't move on to the next step until people are ready. Go right up to them and ask: "Are you ready to switch?" Step 1: OpenOffice.org and Mozilla can be installed on the Windows machines. Explain that even though Office will still be on the computer for the time being, encourage people to move to OO.org. & Mozilla. Get feedback. Feedback feedback feedback! Ask "You think if you had to, you could move away from MSOffice completely?" Remember that these people are not here to do your job of efficiency, they're there to do something completely different, and learning a new OS (or even a new office app) is something that gets in thier way. Step 2: Install dual-boot systems onto the computers, Linux & Windows, to those who are say they're ready to try the new Always allow a way 'back out'. Remember, the last thing you want is for someone to panic because they can't find out how to do something. And *always* ask permission before you change anything on a user's computers. If you can't ask permission, at least give notification. - lots of it. Step 3: By now, you can see how well the migration is going - who will be an 'early adopter' and who won't, what people need, etc. If you have the budget for it, hire someone temporarily (Heck, it can even be a college kid, under the table) to come in a few hours a week and help with computer problems dealing with migration. Try to make it worth their while for the late-adopters to upgrade. At this time, you're going to get a couple of problems. "I can't figure out how to do X" "What program do I use for Y?" "Why can't I use this floppy disk at home?" - actually, if your budget can afford it, offer to install Linux partitions on home computers if they bring them in - so they can take the work home if they wish. Step 4: Set a "deadline" for a complete migration. Ask the end users when they think the deadline should be. Use that, then add a month - but stick to it. Keep people updated, also. Step 5: Complete the transition. The deadline has passed, all the software is in place. Tell people about a week in advance to back up any important documents from their old windows partitions on the company server, then wipe the partitions and reformat them for Linux. Remember, keep people appraised as to why you're doing this - you're not trying to move them onto a new system because you want them to use Linux (from your letter, it seems that Windows has been 'good enough' for you all alonge) but because you can't afford to continue the upgrade cycle of MS Software and you're worried about saving the company money. - that is why the Windows partition has to go. To most people, that windows partition will be a safety blanket, a reassurance... that's why sticking to the deadline is the most important part. The alternative, of course, is to get a bunch of Macs. Brian.
Yeah, I'm sure it was pretty bad back in the bad old days, but there's a hell of a big leap between someone not being able to install their stupid Bonzi Buddies, Comet Cursors and poorly written shareware screensavers that suck up all their resources, and being stuck with a disk-less terminal. But feel free to cry me a river if that's what will really make you happy.
And there's enough half-baked Linux software out there that enterprising secretaries can crash their systems with that your PC liberation theology should be safe.
The key is teaching people why closed formats (MS Office) and proprietary API's and finally closed source is not good for humanity in general. Once people really see why, they will be willing to migrate to open source solutions.
We have found in the office here, that new employees are a little shocked when they learn that they must use "linux" with "openoffice", because most of them have never touched anything besides microsoft windows. BUT, after a couple weeks with some help from other users, they get comfortable and very productive.
We share offices with one of our suppliers (this is in China), and they have about 8 Windows boxes. I just chuckled when the Kletz virus hit not long ago. Their entire network was infected and totally messed up. We were just whirring away working as normal, although we all had sore right hands from hitting the delete button for Kletz emails all day!
Everytime we set up a new box, I just smile when I think off all the money we are saving. I just don't understand why some of the largest companies in the world (including some of our customers) are willing to put thier most valuble information in proprietary format files (MS Office). Are the guys at the top REALLY that blind?
We have four developers now, and these are the guys that I am having the hardest time with converting over to linux. I am still trying to figure out why, and how to convert them........
Real men don't need signitures!!!
1) Start with the support staff.
a. Are they adequitely trained to support Linux/FreeBSD/Other OS?
b. Are there enough staff for the task?
2) Next migrate from the top.
a. If upper management is switched over the rest will follow.
b. Most staff will use what ever is well supported.
c. Technical people will be easier to switch.
Be sure that the users understand the value proposition. (Whats in it for the user?)
a. Allow for flexibility in user preferences.
b. Excelent support (coworkers used to be supportised when I got Linux answers faster off the net than they got answers that they already paid for).
c. lower cost and more features (be sure that you understnad what features that people need).
4) When upper management and engieers have been swithced over and and adequite education period has been used you can migrate the remaining staff.
a. Most people never install any software in a work environment.
b. If they see success with upper management and understand the reasons (and buy into it) the mighration can proceed.
Regards
Tony Dean
tdean@du.edu
3)
Computer "enthusiasts" love to tinker with their toys. The rest of the business world hates the demands computers and software make on their valuable time and attention. We often label them "lusers" for the unpardonable crime of being more interested in running the economy than in endlessly tinkering with our favorite toys.
Right or wrong, that's how they feel and it's worth a few hundred extra dollars per person in software purchase price to avoid adding more "computer stuff" to the things most professionals have to pay attention to.
Most companies will gladly pay the MS tax if the alternative is today's Linux. Why would they subject their employees to a steep learning curve leading to significantly reduced functionality (as a business client machine) for the sake of a few hundred dollars per person?
They're almost all hoping, though, that someone else will go first and make Linux such a great business platform for non-computer types that it will be well worth the learning curve for the average business desktop/laptop user. Increased functionality would almost have to mean more savvy at figuring out what you want to accomplish with less required input from you. (Hardly the state of today's Linux, which prides itself on being amazingly customizable if you have the time, interest, and expertise to spend working on it.)
At that point, saying goodbye to MS will just be frosting on the cake, but until then most businesses will say, "you go first".
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
The biggest question is "Is it worth the effort?" Training is the single-most expensive and time consuming issue in this debate. If you calculate the number of hours that a user will have to be personally trained AND lost work time due to inabilities AND how much they are worth an hour, you will find that maybe M$ isn't such a bad idea. Also, you will have to support the entire system yourself. Which introduces the question of how linux-fluent are you? Do you feel capable of:
1. Training everyone
2. Dealing with the inevitable accountants
3. Linux specific problems
4. Server implementation and support
5. The problems you already have (you dont just sit around =) )
etc. the list goes on about what is now your responsibility. If only for your sanity, stay with something that these people know.
One last thought, consider the techiness of your group, it could be that some (or perhaps many) have "always been interested" in linux but don't want to try it on their own. It comes down to the people involved -- including you.
lpret
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
One way of 'converting' is to setup a Linux Terminal Server. Use the rom-o-matic website to make a boot floppy for ech users PC and tell them that if their MS is crashing etc they can insert the boot floppy and have a working desktop real soon.
If the LTSP does what they need they won't want to go back to windows.
Simon
Forward migrate ... to MAC OS X.
Sidegrade your Office licenses (yes, MS will let you do this for the same cost as a "normal" upgrade).
Microsoft's Mac version has almost none of the evil of the PC version, and the programs are virtually identical across platforms (except that the Mac version works better and has more features ...).
Frankly, after an extremely short retraining time, your staff and your techs will love you for this.
Mac OS X *is* UNIX, ya know ... sheesh. Next time, give us a hard one.
Basically I had a two day seminar for a group of ten people at a small office. It was informal. I was asked to do the seminar by a relative who works there and knows that I "know alot about computer stuff".(I'm basically semi-professional who does alot of hacking in his spare time.)
First I did in an initial informal "interview" with a few of the people that were interested to get a general idea of where thier "comfort zone" was with computers in general.
Most of them ranked somewhere between clueless and intermediate clueless. They thought that essentially a computer equals Windows/Office. So I set a shock therapy presentation for the introduction.
I set up a PC running Windows with Office, a Mac with Office, and a Linux PC running Star Office side by side on the same presentation table. In front of the group where everyone could see. And I used that presentation medium to communicate the fundementals of "computing" if you will. i.e. "What is a 'file'?", "What is a directory?", "What is a hard disk?", etc... And I showed them the similarities on each platform. Slowly, and patiently, expanding thier ability to learn on thier own.
By the second day they were asking me how to write bash scripts to automate thier print jobs and database apps.(Of course I directed them to some good online sources on using Bash, writing Windows Batch files, Perl, Python, and a few others.)
They actually started experimenting for themselves. I think it was the first taste of the real benefit of automating stuff that got them going.
So a couple weeks go by, and I get call from the office manager asking me to come in and do a larger presentation. I guess those initial ten folks had increased thier "productivity" by a factor of five. What used to take several hours of meticulous manual transcribing by one guy was cut down to about five minutes using a crude script that he concocted. Now he had more time to play on the golf course. He now runs an Mac OSX workstation next to his Windows PC. Says he likes the OSX platform better because it looks "neater" and runs his "scripts" better.(My god, what have I done?!)
Anyways...I think the most effective way to get users to switch to a new platform is to give them ability to pick up the nuances of the platform quickly and on thier own, by getting them familiar with the fundementals of almost all platforms. Once that's accomplished, then you can switch between most any platform with little more than a hiccup.
One of the guys in our systems section has been assigned a project to investigate the viability of migrating some parts of the company to linux, probably the development team as first point of attack since they're naturally a bit more adept with computers (most of the software they develop, runs on suns). It's looking like it'll be KDE desktop time, with a very plain set of themes (nice as KDE3 is, Ive seen it collapse like a house of cards due to a theme application :( ).
.doc file "format" (see: moving target) is proving .. interesting, as usual. KWord isn't terribly good at importing .docs, KSpread not terribly good with some excel formula transitions. We'll probably end up using the Sun StarOffice as opposed to OpenOffice because once sun are receiving money for the product, they'll be more or less obligated to get the import and export filters down to a fine art ;-) Lot's of people complained about Suns decision to start charging for it, but to be honest - I think it was quite a brave move that could pay off. Microsofts monopoly is currently a considerably greater evil than non-free software.
Of course the
What some of the people posting don't seem to realise is, you can't simply sit still with Microsoft products. New versions depreciate old file formats, so you're forced into upgrading to the current office version, for example, because the rest of the world is now using Word 2002 Millenium Cashcow Edition, and your Office 97 can't open it. Of course Word 2002 M C E requires XP to run, so you're forced into upgrading the operating system too. And so on.
Now is a very important crunch time for the whole *nix on desktop / Windows battle - the new licensing costs from Microsoft, and their use of scare tactics to commit people to being further entangled now, or pay more later, has finally attracted the attention of the beancounters. This was needed, management types will never consider free software until they feel they are being actively ripped off. It's like herding cats, completely impossible unless you set one side of the room on fire. I think they're feeling it right about now, looks like the sharp shock we needed to broaden peoples horizons a bit has ironically come from Microsoft themselves.
--
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
Notice the author "anonymous coward".
Ya, bolt head thats gonna help him make an informed choice. Gee, I remember when people laughed at the idea of a "personal" computer. "What, a self contained desktop computer?" They said it would never fly, too confusing, people don't like change. Ya, ok! "Don't" I'm sure Mr. Gates would be amused to look back and remember all those that said "DON'T". Linux has come a long way. Now with the 1st release of the codeweaver plugins for Office, KDE 3.0 desktop and the soon to be released Gnome desktop user friendliness on a linux box is very attainable. And my I note that many companies (i.e. Computer Associates, etc...) are now supporting Linux. "Don't" be afraid to be ahead of the curve. By the time your done migrating your environment and the staff settles in I wager there will be some very nice developments in the Penquin arena.
Not so anonymously, Crusher-1 (aka Curtis Rey)
what you see is what you get = what you see is all you get
I like that. I think it condenses my unspoken interior idea of what accounts to 50% of the tasks that need to be done (well and once and forever and without relearning the "GUI" interface everytime bill feels like).
unfinished: (adj.)
If Konqueror or any other X-Windows application goes crazy, the easiest way to kill it is to hit Ctrl-Alt-Escape. The cursor changes to a skull and cross-bones, because XKill is now running. Click on any window of the crazy application and it will DIE!!! There, that's a lot simpler and more intuitive than Ctrl-Alt-Delete and working out which of the obscure program filenames corresponds to the program that's gone wrong. Point and click :-)
hmmm....
interesting.
No, I tried most of the suggestions regarding adsl and they didn't seem to do the trick. Well, I tried most of them. Getting a script to work at startup is currently beyond my ability.
I wish that I could get this thing to work as well as windows. I really do. But I can't. Most of it is probably due to my own incompetence. That much is granted.
SO what does that make you? A linux drone?
I can get windows to work "out of the box". I can't do that with linux. I know, I know, I should join some user's group and take some compsci courses.
I would like there to be an alternative to windows. My brief and shallow experience has been unsatisfactory in finding that. It's not a big deal. I expect it to get better.
One thing I have noticed is that these linux desktops. like gnome and kde, really seem to suffer from even worse "feature-bloat" than windows. Again, just my opinion.
Hey, if microsoft wants to throw a few bucks my way for guerrilla marketing purposes, I would probably not say no, if they paid me enough. But what I'm posting are my opinions and experiences.
For instance, when I tried doing the su trick, it didn't work. What's funny is, even logged in as root, I can only open adsl in gnome, not kde.
I'm working in gnome right now because kde is trashed, and I can't fix it and looking at newsgroups all I see is a bunch of posts saying "yeah there's a problem."
Hmmm.... maybe I am a drone. I'm certainly a neophyte when it comes to amateur (and I mean that in the best sense) computing.
But hey, tell me this, when you telnet into nyplgate.nypl.org, are there any screens that get stuck for you? They do for me and they don't in windows and it is particularly frustrating because I figured linux should be a champ when it came to text-based apps.
Would I like everything to work just right? Yes.
Would I like it to be easy? yes. Has it been so far? No. It has been a pain in the ass, but a learning experience.
All of my problems so far have shown me that the biggest weakness with linux, and open-source in general, is a question of "quality assurance". And that makes sense. QA is a dull boring busineess that people only do if they are paid to do it.
I guess that I've ranted enough. It's nice to know there's a fan out there looking over past posts.
Peace,
Michel Evanchik
evanchik.net
Start emailing stuff as OpenOffice attachments.
Remember how annoyed you get every time you get a Word doc from someone, and you need to switch to Windows for opening that doc?
Make a friendly "quasi-revenge" with OpenOffice attachments. But unlike Word docs, the receiver can open the documents in any operating system, and the application doesn't even cost anything for him or her. There is no excuse.
After the installation, the receiver has excellent office tools which he or she can use freely without MS Tax, and can send everyone documents in *really* universal open format, unlike Word.
Yes, OpenOffice can be viral.
See, here is what happens.
Instead of wasting vast quantities of money upgrading to new MS software when you have legitimately licensed older versions, you conduct your own thorough audit. Make sure that for every PC in your company, you can demonstrate that you have a licence for the OS, office suite, and any other major business apps as required. If you've only got 50 people in the company, this audit shouldn't take more than a week or so of your IT manager's time. That costs considerably less than pandering to MS, and it's a one-off.
I'm sure Microsoft would love to tell you that. Show me the court case.
Well, if your IT manager is competent, you will have pristine records of pretty much everything. Even if not, finding out shouldn't be hard. Just make sure everyone who's installed their own rubbish (which is against a formal company policy anyway, right?) tells you about it, and removes it if it's not legal.
Now, if the BSA come knocking, tell them where to go. Give them a polite but firm statement that you believe you are entirely legal in your licensing, sent by your lawyers.
If the BSA still want to audit you, speak to your lawyers again. See how you can get them to pay the bill for your lost time. Don't forget to mention your new hourly rate of $1000/hour/employee, starting with the guy who's going to shadow them day and night and watch exactly what they're looking at<esc>show them around.
Also speak to the lawyers and see if you can insist that the BSA auditors sign a massively restricting non-disclosure agreement before entering. Something to the effect that if they say anything to anyone about anything they've seen other than concrete evidence of a breach of licensing they said they were looking for before they went in then they will be wholly liable for any damages to your company, its staff, its clients and any other interested parties. (IANAL, obviously get the pro's to write it, but you get the idea.)
If the BSA try to hardball you by going through the courts, then I'd hope most courts would accept the need for a NDA before an audit for the specific purpose of checking your software, and the fact that if your business is found not guilty of any wrongdoing then you will have lost a lot of money due to the inconvenience. I'll say it again: speak to your lawyers about countersuing to recover as much as you can.
Just because the BSA is big, doesn't mean it automatically wins. That's why we have legal systems, y'know. Although a good lawyer will certainly interpret the law in his favour, even the best lawyer can't prove that 2+2=5 in the fact of well-argued opposition. Some things are just too obvious, and if your guys stand up and say "no evidence" or "no case to answer" every time their guys have finished, it's a hassle, but you should be in no real danger.
Who knows, if they know they've got jack on you, and you call them on it, a small company might just get them to back off rather than risk the expense/bad PR anyway. It's far more likely that a small, well-managed company who's challenging them will have everything in order, and in that case, all they can do is lose money by fighting on.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
The average Windows user probably doesn't know either what a C drive is or how to change their background anyway. Even if they do, it's probably not because of any training they received, it's because they asked their mate thinking it was a cool trick, and the knowledge spread.
If you're talking about moving a company over, make sure they know how to fire up the word processor and write their basic letters. Then make sure someone genuinely knowledgable is always available over the first few weeks, to answer questions like "How do I change my background?" or "How do I change the font?" if your users haven't picked this up from initial training.
Everyone will moan and grumble at first, because they'll be experiencing something new. In time, if your new solution is any good, they'll get used to it and stop seeing the downside all the time. This is inevitable, you just have to help them through the transition period.
BTW, you might want to have your support people set up a nice, central Q&A, and make sure everyone knows where to find it and how to use it. Then, when the first guy asks how to set his wallpaper, you tell him, and add it to the Q&A. Everyone else can now see it, too, with minimal drain on your support staff's time.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Well, what P2P apps do you need? A Gnutella client is pretty much the same whatever you use. Audiogalaxy works just great too.
In any case, you shouldn't be letting them run P2P sharing at work - if they get busted for pirate videos then most likely you will get it up the arse too...
Their audits are a little different, they're after atheists and homosexuals. I think I prefer the Business Software Alliance.
Jamie Zawinski's xscreensaver Matrix module absolutely hammers anything like it I've seen under Windows.
The one Windows screensaver I would like to see ported to X is Johnny Castaway. It wouldn't hurt if everyone (that means you) asked or volunteered.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I am sorry but this is just plain false. This kind of generalisation is way wrong, since right now there is one first-class office package available for Linux. In my company we have bought 25 new PC's and instead of MS Office, we have OpenOffice.
After two weeks 24 users said that O.O. if equal or better than MS.O. After that, we have removed MS Office from other 17 PC's, and now we have just 4 MS Office packages installed in pur firm, as far as I konw of it.
Next step? Remove Windows95/98 and place linux instead.
Doing a good job is like spilling coffee on a dark suit, you feel warm all over, but nobody notices.
That's right!
Most of people are not power-users, and they just want the their job done. And wether their tools are runing on MSWin or within KDE or Gnome, that doesn't metter.
There are also some things to be said about maintanence. In my opinion, biggest problem is not going to be keeping linux healthy, quite contrary, that is much easier than in MSWin world. NO, that is not going to be a pain in the back.
Biggest problem are and going to be all (third party) proprietary programs. Sometimes they are written in such a way that they want all the control over computer and sometimes they want just one configuration or they won't work, even if something trivial is changed inside computer... So, If You have to use some program that is made by John&Joe&their_friends, be shure, that is going to be problem, not linux or office tools.
Doing a good job is like spilling coffee on a dark suit, you feel warm all over, but nobody notices.
I'd seriously look at Sun Rays from Sun. There are always some issues moving to thin client, but you should get what you want to achieve - lower cost office computing environment and freedom from MSFT where appropriate. Where you need MSFT use Tarantella or Citrix, prefereably the former!
p en with.html
s .h tml
There are some cost savings here -
http://www.sun.co.uk/success/publicsector/2002/
http://www.sun.co.uk/success/retail/2001/pauley
If you talk to Sun they've got various TCO models that help justify the move.
The main issues are migrating people's mindsets, something that training from Sun or a third party can help with.
The route I'd suggest is a small Sun Ray proof of concept to show that things work. Next stage is to migrate all the back end file server and naming stuff over. There'll be investments to make, but you should save money over time.
Try viewing dvds. It meant upgrading the kernel, and (for me) upgrading glibc. The latter failed miserably. Try viewing videos with some unsupported coded. Figure out the codec, search on the internet. If you're lucky, you'll find one. Then install. Then figure out why it doesn't work and try again.
Funny, I haven't had that problem. Then again, the package I installed with came with several DivX variants, several MJPEG variants, several MPEG variants, some Intel codecs, 3ivx, and about 15 other codecs I don't recognize. (Needless to say, this package isn't included with Debian due to legal issues -- but adjust your sources.list appropriately and it becomes available via "apt-get install").
I needed something like reiserfs. So I was ready to take the plunge. At first it seemed to work ok. After a while I saw that a complete directory was inaccessible. Thank god I had backups.
You should have used ext3 -- unlike reiserfs, it's been rock-solid for years.
Ok, so it doesn't go down. But it does kill applications. I have some serious batch jobs running at night. Killing any of them makes me... well: sad.
Hmm. Have you tried running a cron job that (say) runs every 10 minutes and makes a list of apps eating more than (say) 70MB of RAM? That should let you figure out the app in question, and either stop using or upgrade it. It's probably something minor --
Between that and running swapd (to create new swapfiles whenever your RAM is running low -- you know, like Windows does), you should be set. [careful with swapd, btw -- one recent version has a bug that eats up its file descriptor table and starts looping, doing Bad Things to your CPU time; be sure yours doesn't do that].
As for slashdotters being morons... yah, that happens a lot. Kinda' a pity, as the place was small and friendly when I first showed up -- methinks it's largely in memory of that that I still stick around. *shrug*.
I converted a dept to Linux a few months ago, and am on my way to a 2nd. At first, as with any change, there was resistance. I started with one individual, spent a few weeks working out the bugs, after that I had a good platform to begin other boxes. Here was my experience:
Problem 1 - a telnet client that can do screen prints as well as a win-based client - I found a GREAT client from Ericom called "PowerTerm". This app solves ALL of the font/screen print issues I came up against. (www.ericom.com)
Problem 2 - A app as good/better as Word/Excel - At first I relied on Kword and Kspread, but there were too many issues with converting files, graphics problems etc. Sooooo I bought a copy of Corel Wordperfect Suite for Linux. Works great! Have not heard a single complaint since.
Problem 3 - Terminal Server apps. I found a app called rdesktop (www.rdesktop.com) EASY to install, EASY to use. I am connecting to a Win Server 2000, connects/works with ease, as a matter of fact - WAY easier than setting up a Windoze PC.
Other apps I am using for them gFTP, komba2 ( a graphical samba WinNetwork browser), MusicMatch Jukebox.
The total Cost of 10 PC's (so far) - about $90.00 (initial RH 7.2 CD's, and Wordperfect Suite copies)
If everything is configured and installed by an admin, then it would seem to me that users would be ok. I only had problems when trying to do config and installation things. A Windows power-user is not going to be able to install Xine, for example, or set up Samba to share some files with a Windows PC without alot of trouble.
Never confuse feeling with thinking.
Our company (Engineering sector, ~30 employees) is about to begin a switch away from M$, and it will happen as follows:
1] Replace all copies of MS Office with [Star|Open]Office, except about 4 users who need advanced features of Excel etc. Gain: ~$250 per user.
2] Add Linux servers for e-mail, web, SQL, CRM, Process Control, etc. Gain: no costly M$ licenses. Minimal downtime.
3] Replace the Win2k Servers with Linux boxen running SAMBA. In a company this size, who needs Active Directory? (It's in SAMBA 3 anyhow). Gain: no further CALs needed.
4] Give anyone who wants one a Linux box to play with, and convert them. Gain: Louder Linux voice ;o)
At this point (say, 1 year from now) we will review the case. The most important savings are in the Office licences and the CALs, which amount to about $300 per user.
The methodology here is one of 'creep': gradually replacing Windows with Linux on all business-critical machines (emphasising reliability, security and cost) will be much easier than a desktop rollout. By the time we might consider Linux on the desktop:
- the various Linux desktop environments will be much more refined
- we will have plenty of experience with Linux in general
I do not intend to sweat over a Linux rollout, given that the goal is presumably to reduce headachesnullstr