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Microsoft Loses Appeal To Shut Down LindowsOS
alphabet26 writes "LindowsOS announced yesterday that a Seattle Judge has denied Microsoft's appeal to shut them down, citing that Microsoft's own use of evidence helped determined "Windows" is a generic word. Lindows.com has posted the judge's seven page ruling on their website." Microsoft is trying get an injunction to prevent Lindows from using the name while the trial proceeds, and the judge has denied them, twice. Lindows could still lose the case in the end, though.
this was all over News.com yesterday
You never know...
2600's DMCA Challenge Blocked
All that's left is the Supreme Court...
(No, its not really on topic, but while we're talking about losing appeals, why not discuss one that matters)
Why did Lindows pick that name? To poke at Microsoft. And MS took the bait and ran crying to Mommy. The entire thing is utterly meaningless and so typically penile. Lindows is obviously in the wrong here but MS is only marginally better.
Angela Taylor, PhD
Los Alamos National Laboratory
Feminist, scientist, scholar, woman
If you don't like the judge, appeal or sue again!
The courts will take your money to file another case.
Ha Ha!
..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
And name an OS Winux. . .
You are not the customer.
If only they were using Open Source Software in the jurisdiction industry...
Microsoft isn't trying to shutdown the LindowsOS, as the article headline erroneously states. They're merely trying to stop them from using the Lindows name. The error seems to be a mistranscription of the Lindows press release, which refers to Microsoft attempting to "shut down Lindows.com" (presumably due to the name rather than the content). Even if Microsoft were to have won, there'd be nothing preventing the Lindows people from changing the name to JdsfhkjashdfkjOS.
Isn't it wonderful to see Microsoft get slapped down for what it has already tried to do: take over common English words for its own use? :)
Religion is the opiate of the masses. The wealthy smoke the real stuff.
Wouldn't that be FUNNY if Microsoft lost its "Windows" trademark name because it tries to bully a small company into obeying its will. Ha! This made my day...
Lindows was originally a Microsoft product, and Linux was just a spin-off of that, so I don't see how the judge could say that it is okay to still use the Lindows trademark when the product is no longer owned by Microsoft.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
They are obviously using "Lindows" because it sounds like "Windows". It may be legal, but it is just plain stupid and childish as another poster mentioned.
Personally, I think the whole "Lindows" movement will fail. If I wanted to run a bunch of Windows software, I would use Windows.
that MS should have named there shell payne.exe instead of command.com, that would have made things much clearer.
Its time to give Microsoft some real competition, if Windows is deemed a generic word its ALL OVER for the microsoft monopoly.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Now, I want you to think about this very hard.
Lindows is Linux with some Wine updates to run Microsoft software on Linux.
Linux was created by Linus Torvalds to be a replacement for Minux.
Minux was based off of Unix.
Unix was not a spin-off of Microsoft's technology.
Please, either redraft your statement so it makes sense, or research before talking.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
However, name recognition is one thing... having money, lawyers, thugs is something else entirely...
I think it will take a little more than name recognition to get Linux mainstream, but it's certainly a good start.
PS: Imagine all the "FreeBSD Is Dying" posts there would be if Linux distributions started this :)
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
neener, neener!
From the bottom of the page:
Lindows.com is not endorsed by or affiliated with Microsoft Corporation in any way.
IANAL (*cough*) but if I were, I would read this as an admission that there is a potential for confusion in the mind of the consumer requiring clarification by the disclaimer.
Aren't they shooting themselves in the foot with that?
My poetry site welcomes the unusual.
Homer:[gasps] Look at these low, low prices on famous brand-name electronics!
Bart: Don't be a sap, Dad. These are just crappy knock-offs.
Homer: Pfft. I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see it. And look, there's Magnetbox and Sorny.
... you might think their only business was fighting about trademarks with Microsoft.
This comment is printed on 100% recycled electrons.
Another question: how can Microsoft legally protect "Windows"? Wasn't there a comparable system -- X Windows -- long before "Windows"?
Besides which, what about those mostly-transparent things that you can see outside with? I think those predate Microsoft...
The truly important bit is regarding "trademarking of common phrases". I think it absolutely ridiculous that companies can trademark any common word or phrase. Reference a similar suit to this one, Mastercard suing Nader over "priceless" to see this kind of silliness in action. (feel free to find a better article, I just pulled the first item off google)
Basically, I do not condone the use of language "exclusivism". Language, as a whole, does not lend itself well to patentability. Satire, documentaries etc. are protected speech regardless of trademark, although occasionally (as usual) the courts can get confused. In this case it is even more bizarre. Suing over a name sounding the same? Poets beware!
-------------rhad
Slashdot needs to interview Natalie Portman.
I don't know why the company would pick a name like Lindows, though. Thats like those movies that are hyped up as "If you liked X you're gonna love Y." Or "The best ___ since X." Everyone I know who reads something like that immediately moves on. Rather than selling themselves as a cheap immitation product they should try and sell themselves as a better alternative that happens to also be much cheaper.
This seems especially silly when they have to fight legal battles for the right to use a bad name. Even if they win it's going to cost them a fortune.
I'd just move on and make a big anti-Microsoft PR stunt out of Microsoft trying to pressure my compnay legally. You'd be getting articles in all the ZDnet type news sites, where it seems Lindows target audience hangs out. They'd talk first about the big MS v. Lindows and Linux in general thing plus they'd mention your new snazzy name. Then the reviews start rolling in when the reporters have nothing to talk about because they get a review and a chance to drag up old MS v. Linux garbage. I guess they get all this now, but I think the costs would be a lot less the other way.
Plus, you have to admit the only reason they are using the name is to trick people into using their product. The name basicly says "Like Windows? Try Lindows." Without MS, they'd have no reason to name their product that.
I never fully understood why MS objected to Lindows in the first place. It seems to me that Lindows does more for MS than it does for the Linux community. It sounds like an example of MS just throwing money away for no reason. (Of course they aren't exactly hurting for cash..)
-- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
Unless Microsoft has bribed all the supreme court judges they are bound to loss this one, just on the grounds that lindows has a huge number of exibts to back there claim that windows is a generic term.
Gotta love the hippocritical companies [www.microsoft.com]bah!
I found the most interesting part of the Judge's ruling to be the following:
:)
Microsoft maintains that "Windows" cannot be generic because it is not the name for a class of products. Microsoft's reasoning is flawed because it ignores the Seventh Circuit's case law holding that when a composite term is generic and is made up of an adjective that classifies a noun, the adjective itself can also be a generic form. Microsoft's argument also ignores its own analysis of the Defendant's evidence, which shows repeated references to the composite terms "windows manager", "windowing environment", "windows programs" and several others. Microsoft's outline of the evidence in the Declaration of Timothy L. Boller even characterizes each of these composite terms as the genus for a type of product.
Apparently Microsoft used the very same terms to describe Lindows that they were trying to defend as unique. How's that for shooting yourself in the foot.
Yeah, its all over. By being able to use the word windows, Microsoft is sure to fall.
How desperate are you people to come up with these pathetic ideas of how Microsoft will be toppled because a judge decided "Windows" is a generic word. Its going to take a lot more than that... namely, an operating system that compete on the desktop level.. something linux IS NOT.
-gerbik
You know, I have mixed feelings about lindows, but just seeing M$ lose in court makes me all tingly all over. Know matter what you think about lindows or mp3.com ceo, there is no way that M$ should have exclusive rights to the word "Windows". When would they get around to sueing people who develop "Xwindows" stuff?
Sigs are out of style, so I'm not going to use one...oh wait..
Sorry, had to say it. ;)
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
of the fact that they stole the concept to begin with. My personal favorite quote from the ruling: Even Microsoft's own computer dictionary includes expansive definitions of "windowing environment" and "windowing software.
Can I bum a sig?
No, it isn't. Microsoft has the benefit of having strong public recognition of both their product name and their company name. Furthermore, it wouldn't kill their trademark on the distinctive Windows flag logo that many people have seen at boot-up for the past 7 years.
I also think that retail stores would be less likely to carry a Linux-based operating system labelled "RedHat Windows". Why? Because anyone confused enough to buy "RedHat Windows" only because of the "Windows" in the name is going to return it the very next day when it fails to "work" (where "work" equates to running all his/her existing MS Windows-based programs; wine or other emulation packages aren't going to be enough to appease a novice end-user who was expecting actual MS Windows).
Finally, I think breaking up a monopoly via trademark is inherently lame. The whole point of trademarks are to allow consumers to be able to differentiate the different products in a given market. I know I'd feel dirty if Linux had to start tricking people into using it.
Think about it this way: it's like the people who bashed the hell out of Star Wars Episode I, but still showed up at midnight in full Jedi drag for Attack of the Clones. There's constant whining and putting-down of Microsoft, yet everything that goes into KDE and Lindows tries to make Linux more Windows-like.
Why must Linux define itself through Windows? It's good enough to stand on its own, last I heard...
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
/If we have to go to trial where the word "windows" will be declared generic, we're prepared to do so."/
Damn that would be sweet. The whole "Windows", "Word", "Office" thing has always pissed me off.
I think Lindows has every right to use that name, and that Microsoft should eventually get in trouble for trying to take over common words (Windows, Word, Office .. when all that MS should have the right to trademark is Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Word, Microsoft Office).. especially since MS didn't even invent the idea of a window..
However.. would it really be that hard for lindows to just fricking change their name? I mean, Lindows isn't really even a great name, and they wouldn't be losing anything by coming up with something more original or interesting. It's not like they have any established customers to confuse by a name change. Why is this worth the bother to them? The ONLY possible reason i can come up with that Lindows is fighting this stupid legal battle over the name "Lindows" is that they don't have a particularly exceptional product, so they're just picking a fight with Microsoft as a particularly expensive form of advertising-- news articles about the Lindows court case == publicity, and good publicity.
Anyway, that said, my suggestion to LindowsOS' lawyers is that you take the tack of claiming that Lindows is a parody of MSWindows. If MAD magazine can get away with this, so can you. This isn't a particularly good legal defense, but it would be really funny if it worked.
Hate to say it, but you'll probably be modded down as a troll. :(
mandrake(in very small letters)SOFT
Windows XP service pack.
Have commercials telling users its an upgrade from "WindowS"
Demonstrate it in a mall, using a theme which looks exactly like XP.
99.9 percent of all users wont know the diffrence, it will be like coke vs pepsi.
What needs to be done, is marketing, thats what Linux is currently missing, With Windows as a generic name, all the Marketing Microsoft put into it, can be transfered to Linux distros
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I love this type of revisionist history.....Bill Gates is responsible for the PC revolution, without MS, NONE of this could possibly have happened. No other company could possibly have done this because nobody else is smart enough. Al Gore is the inventor of the internet.
You just arn't looking in the correct place for your information....try Encarta next time!
Headline: "Microsoft Loses Appeal To Shut Down LindowsOS"
Uh, no. They were trying to get them to change their name, not shut them down.
The whole "Windows", "Word", "Office" thing has always pissed me off.
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http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.htm
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Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
This is great news. Not really a big victory but, it makes me feel a little better.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
If you can't sue over a capitalization why can you sue for a whole different letter?
Cheers,
Jonathan
I originally hated the name "Lindows". I would have prefered a clean break from Windows. However, I'm starting to come around to the name from a marketing perspective. "Lindows" may serve as an enticing transition for Windows-addicts, sorta the methadone of the closed source.
Miko O'Sullivan
"Lindows" is a word that I think the average consumer could reasonably confuse with Microsoft's product. That's the important point. The name is disingenuous, just like "crunchy frog" or something.
Lindows ought to rebrand their product, and sell on it's own merits, technical excellance and price.
"...But for all that is good and holy, Judge, shut Lindows down!
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Great. I submitted a story about the first ruling two months ago. God damn it slashdot.
--
Here are your recent submissions to Slashdot, and their status within the system:
2002-03-19 04:44:16 Microsoft Loses Request To Block Lindows.com (articles,microsoft) (rejected)
2002-05-04 21:43:39 Hand-powered Webserver (articles,news) (rejected)
Summary:
rejected (2)
--
Take off every Sig.
not directly but microsodt can afford legal fees,
while an upstart like lindows cant afford to keep spending money on lawyers.
I'm sorry, but I cannot help it.
For one, Lindows goes to great length to distant itself from Linux. In fact, most non-open source people do not even realize there is _any_ relationship between Lindows and Linux.
Lindows *is* Linux. All it is a regular distro of Linux that has renamed everything and drops into single user mode. Others have mentioned how they renamed KWord and a lot of the other KDE stuff.
Then they don't release their source code (clearly violating the GPL). Free Software is all about preserving credit for the original authors and Lindows seems almost to spit in the face of all the people who have worked on Linux.
I don't care if Linux overtakes Windows. I don't care about Windows and the people who use it. I do care about people abusing the hard work that has gone into developing Linux though.
I personally am disappointed that Lindows won here only because I would have liked to see them fade away. They are not good for the community and I can just imagine the harmful effect they will have when they eventually go belly up.
int func(int a);
func((b += 3, b));
Time to look in the mirror and start applying more makeup as you are no longer passable...
Anyway, this has nothing to do with bait as most likely the Lindows people aren't enjoying spending time and other resources defending themselves. It is just MS trying to defend a trademark and seeing how far it can go. Also, there is the issue of whether it is "fair" to allow a company to ride the wave of someone else's work in building up a brand.
I think it is an important case. If MS wins then corporate lawyers everywhere will be licking their chops to go after anything that even remotely looks similar to an established corporate trademark...it will be another headache for small businesses.
Microsoft Windows (MS-Windows) is one thing; Linux Windows (Lindows) should certainly be another; Bindows (BeOS-Windows) could be another; etc. The "Windows" part is too generic alone to have exclusive right to use --- the identifier "Microsoft" _plus_ the generic though I think is fair to establish as one's own exclusive trademark.
Just try to sell a tractor and call it a deer or a cat and see how far you get.
there is another piece of software with a pre-existing claim to a very similar name. Lindows should really be worried about infringing on the name LINDO. if MS were to buy LINDO, they'd have a case.
Lh lood, L Lnti Licrosoft Ltory, L Las Letting Lnti Licrosoft Lithdrawl Lymptoms. Lhank Lod Lor Llashdot!
Okay, maybe thats not quite so funny as I thought it was going to be!
Remember when the courts ruled that the brand name "Webster's" was ruled to be a generic term for a dictionary? Compared to that, this ruling on the "Windows" name seems tame. I mean, at least window is both a common English word and a term for GUI object used across multiple OSes.
Hm... I wonder, if the case keeps going like this, people can name any OS "Windows", as long as they brand it properly: Sun Windows 2001, AOL Windows ver 5.0, Rayonic's Windows Infinity+1 - 'So there, nyah' Edition.
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
!Windoze (i.e Not Windows...)
Well... It is Friday afterall. I'll spend today polishing my
Light Saber for the battle this weekend...
Seems like MS has really covered all bases. Competitors can't try to Outsmart (TM) them for fear of legal action...
Redhat Windows, Mandrake Windows etc
This is, I have to say, a brilliant idea. I don't think it guarantees that the Microsoft monopoly is over, as you say, but it would be a very clever marketing move.
I think many people in the Linux world underestimate how important marketing is. Very simple things really, like the language you use, really do make a difference.
You may like to think that marketing doesn't influence you. And perhaps it doesn't. But it influences a hell of a lot of people - that's why companies like Microsoft pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to develop product names like "XP".
Apple. think different. Repeat. Repeat again. Repeat a hundred times. Eventually people make the association between Apple and creativity.
The reason "Redhat Windows" (or SUSE Windows or whatever) would be a brilliant move would be because it would immediately make an association in Joe Publics mind. The billions that Microsoft has spent making people associate Windows with terms such as reliablity, quality, etc., would be transferred to Redhat, for free.
Now, I can here some of you thinking "bullshit, people aren't so stupid", but you've got to remember that we are not Joe Public. Joe Public doesn't understand what we understand, and to you and me, that makes them appear stupid:
Joe: I want to buy a computer.
Sales dude: Oh, this one's nice. It's a Linux machine.
Joe: Oh, no, I want a Windows computer.
Sales dude: Well, how about this one. It's got RedHat Windows on it.
Joe: Oh, is that like Microsoft Windows?
Sales dude: Yes, it's very similar. And it's cheaper.
Joe: Great! I'll take that one.
Thats why everyone returned windows NT and XP right?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
There is another new addition to MS English XP.
window
n.
8 - Computer Science. A smurf like looking rectangular area on the screen that displays Microsoft's own file or message dependently of the other areas of the screen.
The real dictionary term is here.
Okay, I only submitted this link 24 hours ago, and it got rejected. No spelling errors, and more detailed information than this article. Where's the love!
"and sell on it's own merits, technical excellance and price. "
so why should the clowns at lindows sell on merit as well?
so stop with the tripe.
What reasonably intelligent consumer is going to mistake a multi-billion dollar trademark that is recognized worldwide with an obscure, barely known (relatively speaking for you sensitive types) Lindows OS? Common, if Windows, MS and Gates aren't household names- regardless of whether you like the company or not -then I don't know what is. You would not only have to be part of some Eastern Nomdic Tribe from Zulazula, but live under a rock with several coats of slime and be a monkey to boot to have mistaken Bill Gates Windows for Lindows. Common now. Lets reel it back into reality here.
You have my agreements on the name choice and it's roll in sales, however. I recognize a joke when I see it, but it's really not nessisary or even desirable in my opinion.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
yeah, another plus for OSS & Linux!!!
Go Linux #1
Joe Sixpack was willing to buy Windows2k, WindowsXP etc, I mean even though his programs broke, it was the Windows name that sold those OS's.
The Games may not work as well, But Microsoft marketed it as a new upgrade,
Linux people should market linux as an UPGRADE.
Tell them go ahead and use Windows, but when you are tired of crashing, dealing with viruses, and want freedom to burn cds and have freedom in software choices.
Graduate to Linux.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
By the way we need TV comercials to market Linux like this. Nothing short of tv comercials will work. We need to market Linux to the younger college/highschool crowd not the adults.
Put Linux Commercials on MTV. Make it seem like a huge movement, perhaps complete with protests and people throwinng their windows computers in the trash.
You know, something like what was done for those anti tabacco commercials.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
It seems to me that we get free entertainment and potentially some actual good whichever way this works out, and that's hard to beat.
[1] If you violate the GPL, then you have NO license, and are violating copyright if you distribute. Nifty, isn't it?
I agree with you 100%. Furthermore, I hope something like this gets passed into law. That way Microsoft can finaly change their name to Apple and complete their mission in life.
I also think that retail stores would be less likely to carry a Linux-based operating system labelled "RedHat Windows". Why? Because anyone confused enough to buy "RedHat Windows" only because of the "Windows" in the name is going to return it the very next day when it fails to "work" (where "work" equates to running all his/her existing MS Windows-based programs; wine or other emulation packages aren't going to be enough to appease a novice end-user who was expecting actual MS Windows).
On top of that, a lot of stores have policies against returns on open boxed software.
I'd rather not have people thinking of linux as "the OS that screwed them over"
I was hoping SOME ONE would be able to stop this nasty icky distrobution.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
While technically correct that MS "could loose the final case", I think it's highly unlikely, as you can see from this excerpt of the original order:
Given this, we are just biding time for the fat lady to make her stage entrance.
Windux.com
Yeah and before you know it the mac OSX will be marketed as XWindows...
What? There is already another computing environment called XWindows?
"'Pocket PC' is a generic term used throughout the industry," company representative Marianne Peterson said to a judge in a near-empty court. "Microsoft is simply not infringing this trademark...and asks the court to dismiss the case." Cnet
"The evidence relied on by Lindows is insufficient for two reasons," said Microsoft. "First, it shows use of 'windows' as the name of a feature, not as the name of a genus of products. Such feature references may show that 'windows' is descriptive of the goods, but not generic. Second, Lindows' evidence shows repeated uses of Windows as Microsoft's trademark. Thus, it offers no support for a finding of genericness." zdnet
Maybe not a complete contradiction, but amusing nonetheless.
For the love of $DEITY, loose != not win!!!!!
"when it fails to "work" (where "work" equates to running all his/her existing MS Windows-based programs; wine or other emulation packages aren't going to be enough to appease a novice end-user"
:-)
Exactly. And this is the challenge that Lindows is setting itself up to meet. I'm in favour of the underdog as much as anyone else but I'm hoping that Lindows doesn't even make it to market. I think that they will actively hurt Linux and leave a damaged perspective towards Linux in the eyes of the run of the mill Windows users.
As I recall, Lindows pretty much requires the user to run as root all the time and actively discourages having a root password. Let's see, in one swell foop, they've bypassed Linux security and made the machine extremely vulnerable to root cracks from the net.
And they expect Wine to be the magic bullet for compatibility with the users software. While Wine is amazing technology and certainly praiseworthy, it's hardly a universal solution. What Transgaming and Codeweavers have done with Wine is excellent in their relevant niches. But to build up expectations that Linux will be able to run pretty much whatever Windows software you throw at it? Not a chance. There's still some Win 3.1 apps that won't run (Distant Suns: First Light is the only one I care about.
No, Lindows takes the weaknesses of both OS's in Windows lack of security and Linux's lack of wide commercial software support and emphasizes them.
And this will harm the Linux movement.
Pretty soon now we might expect ABIT to file suit, because the `L' in the Lindows logo has a similar characteristic of an offset cube, much like the `A' and `T' in ABIT's
Poor Lindows. Everyone picks on the underdog
oh well
-comet
Lindows, Shitbag Linux, Better that That Other OS Linux, whatever linux, etc...
:-)
The proof is in the pudding. Does the product do what it says it can do? Is it stable? Is it as easy to use as Windows? Do I have to spend a week doing an install / config?
Then again, I'm not a marketing type.
finally! i have a simple name i can legally use for those clear things i use to look outside. i was really getting tired of saying, "take a look out the transparent viewing portal" or "please close the invisible atmospheric circulation inhibitor."
char *mySig;
What about Apple? Were there any cases where a company was forced into submission by Apple over their usage of the word "Apple" in a product's title?
Just add Open Office and you have the "Linux Challenge" all ready to go.
Coke, Pepsi or Lycoris? ;-)
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
They got Al Capone on tax evasion, didn't they?
The judge seems to imply that he would allow other names such as "Linux Windows" or "Mac Windows". Not that any /. reader would stoop to installing something so named....
I don't see why anyone would want to sell Linux as being like Windows, regardless of how they feel the OSes compare. Using the same name doesn't give me a reason to buy a different product, it makes me more likely to buy the original product because, well, they must have SOMETHING there if other companies wanna jump on the bandwagon and be just like them.
The best way to sell Linux products to Joe Sixpack is to show him the advantages to making a change, rather than trying to sell him a cheap knockoff--which is what it will seem like if Linux products start going out with the Windows name on it.
Denver Isuzu Suzuki
They've never used a Secure OS before, So why would they CARE about security? The goal is to place them on linux, not give them "security"
And they expect Wine to be the magic bullet for compatibility with the users software. While Wine is amazing technology and certainly praiseworthy, it's hardly a universal solution. What Transgaming and Codeweavers have done with Wine is excellent in their relevant niches. But to build up expectations that Linux will be able to run pretty much whatever Windows software you throw at it? Not a chance. There's still some Win 3.1 apps that won't run (Distant Suns: First Light is the only one I care about.
WindowsXP doesnt run Windows 3.1 or Windows95 software yet no one seems to care as long as it runs Word, IE, etc.
No, Lindows takes the weaknesses of both OS's in Windows lack of security and Linux's lack of wide commercial software support and emphasizes them.
What really matters is if Linux is more stable than Windows, More powerful than Windows, and offers more FREEDOM than Windows.
Windows users who want Security will eventually upgrade to a better Linux, the goal isnt to give security to people who dont understand how security works.
The goal is to give them stability and freedom and let them decide what to do next. Linux wont crash. Linux wont have DRM, People like to burn their CDs and not have their computer crash.
These people are used to being hacked by tom dick and harry and wont really notice a diffrence there.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Windows is a name that MS found. Its an GUI OS attempt to run over DOS.
Its a funny attempt... Really! Make a emulation (or real stuff,as Wine guys say, anyway) run over Linux and call it Lindows...
Don't you see how much harm it does to Linux'es gained respect over industry? Thats "surrender" flag for Linux, that nothing, no native app would exist to run on Linux.
Or, do you think mp3.com CEO is a really guy who wants to change the World?
Bah, I'd better blame people buying MS Office's Word instead of Corel wordperfect.
Windows is Microsofts flagship product, they invented that name... Any attempt to sell a "Linux" (wondering how much it fits to Linus'es idea) branded as LINdows is lame, real lame... Also believe it won't help Linux either. It will harm real lot. Do you believe BillG really takes Lindows serious? Think again... He isn't an elite coder but I think he knows PR stuff real well...
Linux users strugling to run MS Office... now its great.. for him
The thing is, 'windows' may be a generic term, but Lindows are not trying to make an operating system that just happens to have a windowing GUI. They are trying to make a substitute for Microsoft Windows. I am sure they will market it on this basis too.
However, in any sane trademark system you'd credit the consumer with a minimal amount of intelligence and assume that Lindows can be distinguished from Windows, as Radiation Dude from Radioactive Man. Who knows, perhaps this will even be the outcome.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
wants all your base are belong to their company.
barely found the snippet in the business news section, which had a one-line summary of this news.
but good news, nonetheless
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
..but kicking Microsofts lawyers over a critical trademark such as this is an epic victory.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Funny how after all this time people are still trying to make Linux look like Windows. I remember in college going around the dorms and people are all hyped because they got a window manager that looked like Windows95 (yeah, this was back in '96, Im sure most of you know what wm Im talking about). College kids are already the most likely group to know what Linux really is in the first place, so targeting them is more a waste of resources than an effective plan of attack.
Negative on that. They've got other non-generic trademarks such as Office, Word, Access, etc. How many times do you hear people in your office say a word like that when they access the system?
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
But isn't Lindows still Vapor?
Colette in one of her stories complains that lesbian parties are too easily consumed by talk about men, whereas at gay male sex orgies, it's all about gay male sex. This raises all kinds of questions about sexual identity, but you can't begin to understand this without considering the social inequality of the sexes.
Similar arguments could be made about Linux identity politics. Once you take into account the gross inequalities in the field of operating systems, you begin to understand why so many members of the Linux community define themselves in opposition to Microsoft.
btw, this is just an analogy, and by no means an endorsement of Lesbian GNU/Linux.
This is why nothing gets accomplished, because as a community you silence the cold hard truth, while living in your pipe dream worlds that have linux coming out as the victor. I use linux every day, but defeat windows on the desktop it will never do. Wake up.
Mod me down some more.
I submitted this yesterday, but the reviewers at Slashdot werent confident enough.... Now it looks clumsy to me to be posting 48 hour old news on Slashdot. So much for........ Anyways.
Whow... nice proportions in M$ news...
Cheers...
This is true. I'm betting you could get away with something like Word. Technically I'm sure the trademark is on Microsoft Word (anyone volunteer to look it up?). RedHat could make RedHat Word with no trademark infringement. Or at least I'd hope so, but I could be wrong, TSR was allowed to trademark the word nazi which seems bogus to me.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
but defeat windows on the desktop it will never do
Thanks for the opinion Yoda, but remember that's all it is opinion.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
2002-05-16 18:51:01 Lindows ruling knocks Microsoft back (articles,microsoft) (rejected)
Didn't MIT come out with "X-Windows" before the existance of MS-Windows? And isn't "Lindows" a different word than "Windows" ??
.
We should be surprised that such a case ever got filed. But, the way things are. .
No, Jobs & Wozniak were responsible for the PC revolution. They produced the first non-kit consumer microcomputer as well as the first mass market GUI.
You're the one revising history.
The "PC revolution" afterwards was caused primarily by hardware companies trying to cash in on IBMs good name. Bill too was trying to cash in on IBMs good name as well. He distinguished himself not so much by being a visionary but by being willing to do anything including fraud and extortion.
Compaq has more claim to the title that you would give to Bill Gates and Microsoft.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Never is a long time.
Many of us still remember DOS 6 and all of the associated manual memory management shenanigans. The success of DOS over Macintosh quite clearly demonstrated that success in the computing market has little to do with features or software quality.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Yes, Apple sued Apple, but not in the way you think.
Apple Records, the Beatles' record company, sued Apple Computer over the name. If I remember right, both Apples settled out of court. The agreement basically said that Apple Computer would keep the name "Apple Computer" and that Apple Computer would never get into the music recording business.
This is, by the way, the origin of the system sound on Macs called "Sosumi". Apple Records was not happy when Apple Computer started adding all kinds of sound capabilities to Macs, which Apple Records thought may violate the agreement. Ergo the cheeky name for the sound -- "so sue me".
cf. Wikipedia
Cheers,
Ethelred
Everyone wants to be Ethelred. Even I want to be Ethelred.
your filthy whore of a mother still pays me $350 a week to allow her to suckle it
It may. Just give it a few years. Once it runs games and all windoze apps i see no reason why it won't become popular. People like theat word free.
Just out of curiousity, if Microsoft has not already, haven't they put something in the EULA (most exciting read since Doug Adams) that says you can only run Word, etc., on a Windows Box, not a Linux box running Wine? Just a question.
Here's an article that describes exactly how to do just what you're asking about.
What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
wonder when Mindows will make its debut?
I guess it's a point of perspective. The ultimate core of any operating system is the kernel, in this case the Linux kernel. However, these days people look at the OS at a wider layer than just the kernel.
For example, all the wars about IE being part of the "Windows OS", one may wish to argue that the core of Windows is actually the windows kernels; that's ntdll or user32/kernel32/shell32 and that everything else is built on top.
If you regard the operating system as the layer(s) that allow applications, Windows or Linux based, to interface with memory, CPU and other hardware, then the end result appears that Lindows OS is indeed the core of the Lindows distribution. They've taken what were previously applications/emulators/applications (cf browsers/windows media player/explorer) and integrated it into the operating system to give a better (depending on your perspective) interface that is the operating system
This was a really nice troll! A lot of people seem to have fallen for it (two moderators modded it as "insightful" and a lot of serious people responded to it)! My complements to you, Gozzmonic.
I really like the way you use the term "the Linux community" and compare it to a profit making company (Lindows.com). That definately (w)inflames a lot of Linux people!
But maybe there should have been some small reference to the GPL as well? On the other hand - that would perhaps have been too obvious.
Cheers, and thanks for a very good job!
Page 24 of the March 25 ruling: While the court agrees that the Windows mark has acquired secondary meaning, no degree of secondary meaning will save a generic mark... no matter how much money or effort it pours into promoting the sale of the merchandise.
...otherwise a manufacturer could remove a common descriptive word from the public domain...
So "windows", "word", and "office" can't be trademarks. ("Microsoft Windows" is a solid trademark because "Microsoft" is not at all generic.) My only question, if "Windows" by itself can't be a trademark, why didn't this end the case right there?
Could there be allegations that, like "Bolex" watches, Lindows could be sold as a counterfeit MS Windows? I don't know if that would matter even if it was true, once "Windows" loses trademark status, but in any case it's not true and it's not a reasonable sales strategy for Lindows. A major part of their sales pitch is that it ISN'T MS Windows, but is (or will be, someday) better because Linux is underneath. Anyhow, they aren't selling this on street corners, and anyone who didn't understand what they were buying would soon bring it back - so accentuating the difference is in Lindows vendors' best interest.
You could say that Lindows has become the "pane" of Microsoft's existence.
Just had to throw that in there.
I know that.....my above comment was SUPPOSED to be deliberately absurd...notice the little jibe about using only Encarta as the source of info!
I guess that that is the best measure of MS's ability to re-write history is when others can't tell if you are being cynical or serious!
MS's ability to re-write history, even factual information like mountain elevations according to local preferences sickens me. When he changes local editions of Encarta, telling multiple countries that "you have the tallest mountain"....that's bullshit. Verify the height and only one is highest....I expect that you're up on these types of "localizations" in various versions of Encarta?
I wasn't revising history, so much as making fun of the way that Bill Gates see's it.....to me, it's hillarious how he will turn every situation around to show that ONLY HE has the right answer....ONLY HE can save the world of computing...ONLY HE can provide secure solutions for business.....the world would run perfectly if HE could control everything.....we're just a bunch of worthless stealing pirates taking HIS money....
Sorry you couldn't tell the difference between sarcasm and serious....I'll try harder next time.
Buy a program for Lindows, or buy Lindows, and think, "It's Microsoft!" are the same ones who buy Mac products and wonder why they don't work on their PC.
The word? Confusion? Every Mac user I know refers to those funny boxes with stuff in them as windows.
They don't seem to have a problem with recognizing the fact that something is or isn't MS software.
The first time I saw the Lindows site and read into it I found it humorous. The more I think about it I think this is a good step forward for the opensource community. It will bring Linux (ick!) to the desktop and still allow users to use their familiar office products that they've grown to know over the years. Hopefully this will be benefitial to the opensource community as a whole, not just Linux.
scott
OK, I made this submission too, but my links were to vnunet.com. Guess the moderators don't like AC's, do they?
As some have mentioned, those who have obtained their various degrees and start waving them supposedly deserve to be an egotistical troll. What I'm curious is, how effective is their degree outside of their fields of study?
........
Besides that, DrBiscuit can only be a troll. When someone only writes comments in a very condescending tone, they should expect to be modded down. This is definately a good troll though. By her being a feminist she can claim she is getting modded down because she's a womyn.
But again, can only be a troll. She doesn't even follow-up on any of her posts. Why is that? She's modded -1 for the past 12 comments
Well, time to go Anon cause this'll get modded down as offtopic if i posted at my +1 or under my name.
I know I'd feel dirty if Linux had to start tricking people into using it.
Me: "Here you go. That'll be $1,500."
Customer: "Wow. That's a lot of money, but at least I now have the fastest computer on the block! Thanks for putting it together for me. Now you did put Microsoft Windows XP on it like I asked, right?
Me: "Uh, yeah. Just click on that little penguin in the lower left-hand corner to start using it. Gotta run."
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
hah, I dont think so. What would we end up calling those glass sheets in the holes in the walls of our houses?! Portals??
They are putting price-tags on KDE apps, giving them new names, and then "giving them away" ( if you use Lindows ! ).. $20 for ksnapshot ? $109 for "Time Organizer" ( Korganizer ) ? $299 for Kspread ? Helloo ! Get real... isn't this illegal in the states ? Like false advertising ?
So if Microsoft loses the right to trademark a generic English word such as "Windows", does that means that I can market a product called "Windows XL" or the like?
in your face, Microsloth! Linux is here to put you in fear! See you next year! Don't shed a tear! Get your butt in gear, and get out of here!
But the bags of cereal cost a dollar less and taste the same!
A solution to the problem with music today
...not enough characters in the "Subject:" line to write "twice" But yeah, they've been in the WSJ twice, and this is post-dot-com era mind you. ZD-Net? Bah... They've got the friggin WALL STREET JOURNAL.
A solution to the problem with music today
Dude, it's all there for crying out loud! http://www.net2.com/lindows/source
A solution to the problem with music today
Not all feminists are women.