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China Bans U.S. Electronic Scrap
ReverseC writes "Think twice before you throw that those computer parts in the garbage. Do you really know where it's going? The Guardian reports China has banned US's electronic junk." We did a previous story about the U.S. dumping electronic scrap in China.
So does that mean they're not going to try and get the parts off our planes next time they run into one?
I once knew a fellow back in the 80's from China who was contantly buying up scrap equipment with the intent to ship it home. Now they don't want it.
satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
"Think twice before you throw that those computer parts in the garbage. Do you really know where it's going?"
Why yes, yes I do.
If I put it in the trash it goes to a dump.
If I take it to a recycle center it is more likely to be shipped to China.
It seems perfectly reasonable that they want to keep lead, mercury and all the other nasties out of their groundwater. This is definitely going to be a problem in the US within the next couple decades, and I wish we were as proactive as China.
Christ, I just said I wish we were as proactive as China. Has hell frozen over or something?
--
pants ahoy
Electronic scrap puts the lives of rural villagers at risk
Beijing has announced a clampdown on the import of electronic junk from the US and other developed countries which is being stripped by Chinese peasants in primitive and dangerous conditions.
The ban follows an outcry by western environmental groups and in the Chinese press about reports that young children are employed to smash up computers and that local water supplies have been poisoned by toxic waste.
A new list of banned items will include "TV sets, computers, Xerox machines, video cameras and telephones", according to the national environment agency.
Visitors to villages near Guiyu town in the southern province of Guangdong have seen printed circuit boards and other junk"cooked" over open fires to extract valuable metals.
One Chinese reporter saw a four-year old girl prising copper coils out of shattered components. "Completely unprotected, without even basic safety goggles, the girls pound away and laugh as bits of metal and plastic fly."
In Beilin village, the reporter noted, women armed with pliers worked in front of small furnaces "to retrieve chips from circuit boards immersed in pools of molten solder".
Raising fears that China was becoming a "dumping ground" for electronic junk, the country's environment agency said this week that police would crack down on "the smuggling of dangerous wastes". However, it appeared to leave a loophole by saying that if "proper methods" were used, the environment need not be harmed.
The trade in so-called e-waste in Guangdong has persisted in spite of claims last year that the provincial government was taking effective action.
Local dealers say they suspended work while inspections were being made, and residents claim that police officials have been paid off.
A Shanghai reporter who visited the Guiyu area under cover was threatened with violence when local bosses discovered his identity. Earlier one of the bosses had told him that the local water was so polluted "that our faces come out in scabs if we wash in it".
Villagers say they know the health risks but have no alternative because the financial yield from farming is so low. In any case the land is now too poisoned to grow crops.
The environmental groups Basel Action Network and Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition said in a report this year that up to 80% of electronic waste from the US was shipped to countries in Asia including India, Pakistan and China.
The report cites three reasons why so much waste is exported from the US: labour costs in Asia are very low, environmental and occupational codes are poorly enforced, and US law does not impose any controls on such exports.
The US is the only industrialised country to have failed to ratify the 1989 UN Basel convention which calls for a total ban on the export of hazardous waste.
Most e-waste in Guiyu comes from the US with smaller amounts from Japan, South Korea and Europe. The report describes how printer cartridges are ripped apart to extract toner and aluminium, and cathode-ray tubes are hammered open for their copper yokes.
Because of ground water pollution, drinking water has to be trucked in. Irrigation canals have been filled with broken monitor glass laden with lead, and plastic e-waste.
Chinese press accounts suggest that up to 100,000 people may be employed in processing e-waste in Guiyu. Hundreds of truck journeys every day bring in supplies from the port of Nanhai - close to the provincial capital of Guangzhou - where the waste arrives in container loads.
Some operations were halted after earlier revelations in the Hong Kong press, and tougher controls are expected after the new ban. Even if these are effective the problems of resulting unemployment and land contamination remain to be tackled.
Leave it on the side of the dumpster. Someone else will pick it up.
It's kind of like throwing out old furniture. You know someone will drive past it and wonder why it's being thrown away, and then they pick it up and take it home.
Surely there has to be a way to break down these plastics and metals in such a way that they are no longer a threat. Burn them at super hot temperatures, subject them to strong chemicals that can break them down, or whatever.
Of course, the above suggestions are useless, but how much effort has actually been put into figuring this problem out anyway?
END COMMUNICATION
The US Government would stop letting NYS use Virginia as its garbage dumping grounds.....
Does "electronic junk" include Windows?
"Saddam Hussein cavorts with terrorists."
wtf is this offtopic? He/She mentions China in the post. Fucktard moderating.. eat my dick, dipshit bitches
...that it might come with linux on em and then it will spread freedom?
With new modern recycling methods we can remove almost all the re-useable stuff out of computers, so what 'US junk' is china preventing from entering the country.
I mean if they were trying to block old 486's from coming in, why don't they let them in and build a Beowulf parallel tasking computer that would rival that of NASA's supercomputers.
Or perhaps this is just china trying to say 'we don't need the USA. The USA needs us. We are in control' as china is shipping us tons and tons of computer parts, and etc that will be 'junk' within the year.
If you don't try, you will never gain the opportunity to fail.
Medevo
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is soooooo funny!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like yelling.
We should turn the ANWR into a new e-dump for all this e-waste.
import most of our "junk" of any kind from China anyway?
The obvious comment here, is that perhaps the US should ban junked electronics from China. (ie; those to come fresh out of the factory)... hehe.
-- Ken Kinder ken@_nospam_kenkinder.com http://kenkinder.com/
Does "electronic junk" include Linux?
There is. Almost all materials can be taken care of in various ways; for most materials you don't even have to burn it. Some plastics can be reused instead of oil to make new plastics; metals can be extracted and used again and so on.
The trick is to make manufacturers design this possibility into the products. There is little point to know how to take care of the different materials if you can't separate them cleanly, or if you can't identify the material. In the EU, car manufacturers (and by and by, other product manufacturers) have to take disposal into account, by considering disassembly, marking materials with a material code and so on.
/Janne
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
The article author sorta makes me feel like I'm supposed to feel bad that my old harddrive ends up in China. Now, I don't have any experience with this but I'm guessing that China is purchasing this junk or is atleast allowing the US to ship it to them for a chunk of money. I don't think that we're flying it over Beijing and dropping it by the plane load, could be wrong but I'd think we'd have a few more problems with China if this was the case. If anyone other country out there wanted to house the US's toxic waste I'm not gonna feel sorry for them because their nation is ran by idiots. My $0.02.
You can't break down the heavy metals such as mercury and lead - I don't think that thare are any harmless compounds involving them.
It is potentially possible to extract and reuse them however, although doing this probably involves taking recycling (and preferably the cost of recycling) into account when designing the computer.
Who throws away electronics?? You'd have to be crazy to throw away anything, even moreso to throw away electronics!
Know someone who is stealing cable? Report them!
Comment by EABinGA: In the real world, economic growth and capitalism have actually been very good for the environment. The richer a country is, the better its environment is.(Score:4, Informative)
Capitalism isn't as perfect as so many people thinks.
Capitalism need people worried about the envirnoment, otherwise environment is nog going to be protected.
Villagers say they know the health risks but have no alternative because the financial yield from farming is so low. In any case the land is now too poisoned to grow crops.
At China capitalism didn't work so fine either.
Capitalism don't exclude solidarity with other people, or other countries.
Who thinks that all is fine with the current system, needs to think more about it.
-= If you fight Dragons long enough, you will become a Dragon =-
Cool, we can just sell those non-Xerox photocopiers to the Chinese. Sweet. I feel a bit sorry for Xerox though. Maybe they could remove the label that says it or something...
Sure there is, let me explain the current method:
1. Asia produces massive amounts of technical hardware, everything from memory to motherboards.
2. Asia ships the hardware to the US, where the price is drastically marked up, various letters of the alphabet are pulled out of managers asses to produces the markets name, which is really just an acronym, and we purchase the product.
3. We use the product. Rather than throw it out, we ship it back to asia - dumping it riverside. Poor asian peasants than search through the refuse, *automatically* separating the valuable components from the garbage, and then trade it for fish.
Aha! They caught on to the CIA plot to slowly poison their youth, so that when W. decides to take the war to China, they won't have enough strength to resist.
Take a Sharpie and write "Caution! U.S. nuclear secrets inside!" on the equipment you want to get rid of. Then the Chinese will be more than happy to take it.
"One Chinese reporter saw a four-year old girl prising copper coils out of shattered components. 'Completely unprotected, without even basic safety goggles, the girls pound away and laugh as bits of metal and plastic fly.'" Well, it's been proven, my intelligence level is that of a four-year-old girl.
there used to be a most excellent Electronic surplus store in Evanston, (no, not American Science, but they were in the same building...) E.R.A Electronic Resale Associates.
They had tons of great stuff cheap. I got a pair of original factory replacement panels ( with all the lights and dials..)for an old Univac for $50.
They now hang in my garage and the lights blink and stuff....
when they went out of business, I bought as much as I could afford and could store, then I said "What happens to the rest of this stuff?"
I was told that it would be shipped to CHINA where it was ground up and used as fertilizer.
That didn't seem plausible at the time, but I thought there's alot of stuff I don't know, and maybe this is one of them.
one of them stuff I mean.
beer and grammer don't work too good today.
When did Slashdot become EccoDot? EnviroDot?
:-)
First Kyoto, then this. Next we'll see that Richard Stallman's talks contribute to global warming.
Actually, a mob in Australia developed a way of making some very good plastic like products using wheat. They can vary the thickness and other properties of the plastic to suit different ranges of requirements.
If electronic circuit board manufacturers used a plastic that was reasonably solid for, then so long as the board doesn't get soaked in water (which most boards aren't, right), then it'll stay together. If these boards are soaked in water, or if they are left in the open to get rained on or be buryed, then they will decompose.
This would also make it easy to recover metals from an electronic board by simply soaking it in a solution of some kind to disolve the plastic away from the metals.
The solutions are there, they just need someone with enough courage to take them on!
-JB
"I love deadlines. I love the "whooshing" sound they make as they pass by." - Douglas Adams.
I bet I'll get modded down by the flag humpers here but it seems like almost every day I read something that makes me ashamed to be an American. It would seem that if a treaty might cost some of our precious business profits it won't get ratified. On the bright side I'm not a breeder so I don't have to worry about the world my kids will live in.
That sounds familiar... 4 stories ago there was an article which mentioned that all the European countries ratified an environmental treaty that the US decided not to. For a country that made the phrase 'team player' an overused cliche, the US always seems to do its own thing.
Of course, this is all just part of a much larger picture. For the past few years, relations with China have not been good. When we're not hitting one of their embassies with a missile (and effectively enraging their population), we're running spy missions off their coast. Then to ease the world's mind, we say that everyone does these things, but I do wonder how tolerant we'd be of a Chinese plane flying off the coast of California collecting data. Yes, it would appear that we may be on a collision course with China. Bush has repeatedly stated that China is a "strategic enemy", and Chinese leaders haven't exactly been glowing in their assessment of Bush. I remember an old Vulcan proverb that stated, "Only Nixon could go to China."
The new administration doesn't seem too concerned with the power of China, and that may be a grave folly. Not that this is any worse than Clinton practically getting into bed with the Chinese and selling secrets and favors, but it will be morbidly interesting to see how this potentially enormous future conflict develops.
Mod it as flamebait, but I have to be just a teense suspiscious whenever China does something for humanitarian reasons. "We don't want our citizens getting hurt rifling around in all this junk!" is the supposive claim. Then I read the first paragraph:
"Beijing has announced a clampdown on the import of electronic junk from the US and other developed countries which is being stripped by Chinese peasants in primitive and dangerous conditions."
Ladies and gentlemen, free entrerprise has come to China in a form they probably least expected. Beyond the "poor little girl poking her fingers in glass" and and "people washing in scab producing water" sypathy routine, I notice there is scarcely a word mentioned on what happens to this junk. These people are scavenging TV sets, computers, Xerox machines, video cameras and telephones, not to mention boiling circuit boards for valuble metals. Make no mistake: Money is being made by the private citizen, completely independent of the government and they don't like it one bit. Squash indepenence and bash the US in one blow, what could be better!?
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the conditions the reporters mentioned bare some truth and it's kinda sad that happens that way, but beneath this sympathy propaganda piece there is a revolution taking place.
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I challenge any full-blooded nerd to read:
and not get a hard-on.
eom
Sad little man. I'll mod him -12 to make up for Slashdot's oversight.
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We don't need any more rotting Apple ]['s or XT's!
Just send us the good stuff!
recycling Linux makes a great coaster
(* Why yes, yes I do. If I put it in the trash it goes to a dump. If I take it to a recycle center it is more likely to be shipped to China. *)
Where *are* we supposed to take it? It is harder to get rid of an old PC than it is to get a new one.
Nobody wants them. Sometimes there are public funded events to pick them up, but you have to go out of your way to find them, and they don't happen very often.
Although I hate taxes, one interesting idea is a disposal tax on each machine or motherboard sold to pay for collection and disposal costs. It is kind of like the aluminum can tax in some states. It generally works.
Table-ized A.I.
China bans U.S. electronics crap
rather than
China Bans U.S. Electronic Scrap?
-- The morphemes of your disquisition are ascertainable, but they have eschewed an ambit of transpicuous exposition.
These are peasants doing this after all and it's probably not being done for cash, but on the barter system. Don't take my word for it, however. As far as why bother shipping it there to begin with, it probably cost less than what it costs to dispose of it in a nation that actually cares. Some places charge stiff penalties in doing so, so why not ship it off to somebody waiting in China? And why bother repairing the transformers at all? Sure, some might be salvagable, but that's quite a bit of copper and other metal to be used (size depending). 5 cents might not be much anywhere else, but when you and your friends are living in squalor, it's an economy. Hell, guys in places like Thailand survive off the used tabacco industry-- the process of picking the leftover tabacco out of peoples used buds and reconstituting them into "recycled" cigarettes.
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and ironing their star wars shirts
It's actually profitable to do the recycling here in the US and sell the scrap for the raw materials. The problem with China was that they did it in a totally half assed and unsafe way. I worked for a place in Portland that's doing a great job at it and staying profitable too. The best thing was that the owner hired me to go in and pick through anything that was still usable or repairable. He realized after I left that it was costing him more to sell stuff on ebay than he was making. Now they just grind it up whole regardless of condition. It's sad to see such fun stuff go to waste, but what can you do? Al least it's not ending up in the land fill and polluting our groundwater (more).
This is one of the reasons that the EU intriduced a bill making companies responsible for the recycling of the computer they sold. This means that companies can't simply say its someone else's problem. This bill has the effect of encouraging companies to find ways to make computers more recyclable, otherwise impossible to recycle computers will effect their bottom line.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
However, it appeared to leave a loophole by saying that if "proper methods" were used, the environment need not be harmed.
As the US Internal Revenue Service is fond of saying, "All income is taxable." Proper methods, without doubt, will consist of paying a licensing fee. If all those "made in China" tags on electronic junk is a guide, the Chineese government does not mind paying an environmental price. If they are developing anything like their Former Soviet friends did, the price will be high. This blurb, like any other where there is no freedom of speech and press, is just propaganda.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
There's a reason Chinese peasants are working on this stuff in primitive and dangerous conditions. It's because they're freakin' Chinese peasants. No boat, no lights, no motorcar, not a single luxury. The fact that their own government is all of a sudden caring for them is nothing but a smoke screen-- They are peasants because the government doesn't give a damn and still doesn't. Sure, there are ways to do this safely, but they probably A) Can't afford it and B) Would have to involve the government which is making damn sure they stay peasants anyway.
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And they were only too eager to buy it. Besides a hiccup during the spy plane fiasco, chinese buyers were lining up to buy old tech from the scrapyard where I work and scrounge in San Francisco. It stopped cold the day they got into the WTO, months ago.
Chinese people showed up with money and bought container loads of unsorted scrap. Done deal, it's miller time. Honestly, we assumed without even thinking about it that it was being recycled in factories, though probably unsafe ones, or that the working stuff would go to schools or offices, where a 386 would be worth the trouble to set up. Who cares, they're doing more with it than us.
So the bottom has fallen out of the scrap market, and now monitors are toxic waste you have to pay to get rid of. But, there are still countries buying.
Is this the fault of the bad, bad US? Should we be required to keep our junk away from irresponsible people? Have we forced anyone? Or even been deceptive?
You know, people from India buy old tires by the container to ship to india. Other countries do it too. Totally bald, worn out tires. They just love 'em. You know where they wind up? ON CARS! GOD! This HAS to kill people.
We've been told that these are NEW tires, and if we're worried we should go and see what an OLD tire looks like. So are they killing people, or saving lives?
It just ain't like it is here, in most places! It may be hard for us to understand, but 'chinese peasants' with scrap to sort, and people filthy rich enough to have a car to put bald tires on, are a hell of alot better off than at least 50% of the people on this planet!
You know there's a famine in africa right now, and I don't think they care about dying of cancer in 30 years. All they can think about is keeping their children alive for just one more day. Think about that when you're in the supermarket. Go when they're throwing out the fruit. That's when I go.
I'd like to solve these problems, but it's saturday, and we've got tires to stack. Maybe we'll save a life.
=Rich
This comment makes NO SENSE! If a country is run by idiots, that's all the MORE reason to feel sorry for its inhabitants!
Unless, of course, you're suggesting that any country whose gov't you don't like is also automatically populated by idiots. (See note about democracy above.)
Hey, it's slashdot where it's cool to hate America and all things American!
Mod him up as insightful!
That's a pretty clear test checking the level of culture. And it seems that most of Americans don't pass the test. They blame the rest of the world but they cannot see own sins. They want to control the world but they are not perfect in the control of themselves. They want to bring culture to the rest of the world and they don't have culture in their own hearts.
Why? Because of poor public education? Or because US government keeps Americans blind for better control? Americans should answer such questions themselves.
But what gives me a hope is that not all Americans are so blind and stupid.
Ain't nothing wrong with your enterprise, my friend. You sell it and people are looking to buy it; Free Enterprise at it's best. Sure these people are buying what is might be considered toxic and unsafe in the better developed countries, but what some of these people don't seem to understand is that they probably know that already. The fact that they're doing it isn't a reflection on the US or any of the other countries vaguely refered to in that artical. They aren't "evil" for inundating these poor, poor villagers with our junk. It's not as if we're secretly coming in black boats in the middle of the night to dump it on foriegn shores for some hapless villager to stumble across and say, "WHOA! We're in the world did all these computer parts come from!? They weren't here last night!" The people of these countries are DEMANDING it. And is it this guys fault he's selling "potentially" toxic items to them? Hell no. You could be accused of the same thing for selling your murcury filled thermometer in a garage sale. Surely you didn't intend for somebody to crack it open for the stuff inside, right? And if he does, is that your responsibility? Repeat after me: "NO." But somehow, China's pasting the blame everywhere else, simply because it's convinient. Their people want this junk. They are willing to dangerous thing to extract profit form this junk. If anything, thier desperation is a reflection on their government, not ours.
My hat is off to you, man. You've probably done more for some of these peoples lifestyle than half the humanitarian organizations out there by giving them another source of income beyond the bountiful wealth they're obviously recieving from their own governments.
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"But then, it should be any surprise this goes on considering what America does with its nuclear waste..."
Um, bury it in holes in the desert?
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It's about time that the industrialized countries of the world developed nanotech to clean up all the toxic wastes of the current industrialized world. In doing so, we will also have developed neat nanotech solutions to our current hi-tech needs and also which will probably be a magantude better and not so damaging.
Well, I got a chuckle out of it ^__^ I'll mod you +3(funny)
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When did that happen? If that were the case, we'd be living like you guys.
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Then why are you still here? And why wasn't this thread been modded as off-topic? I've already debated the Kyoto treaty enough, but it's not the topic here. That's the reason you should be modded down, not because of your busted-ass opinion. Time to move on.
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There's still plenty of uses for mercury and lead, so it would be nice if it were recycled too. I don't know how cost-effective that is, though.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Lets say you have a broke VCR. Your friend finds out and offers to buy it. Is this a bad thing? Not yet. Most people would shrug their shoulders and say sure, why not? Your buddy gives you $20 for the thing and the he trots home a happy camper. Later that week you happen to mosey by his house and glimps him at work in his garage, VCR parts strewn everywhere, buckets of chemicals, the works. "What the hell are you doing!?" you ask. "Do you know how many valuble components and metals can be salvaged from a busted VCR!?!?" he proudly proclaims.
The point: Are you now responsible for your friends actions? If he suffers a chemical burn trying to extract the copper off a circuit board, is that your fault? Are you going to offer to pay his medical bill because you very indirectly aided in his injury? Repeat after me: "No, No and No". And that's what's happening here. These guys aren't getting wholesale barrels of toxic waste, they're buying broken stuff that we've thrown away. What they do with it is their business. Even that VCR has enough toxic chemicals to make somebody sick if not handled (ie; diassembled/melted down) correctly. You buy potentially toxic crap all the time, the only difference is that it works. So is it the department store's problem if you get a wild hair up your ass and decide to take apart the monitor you're reading this post on, landing some phospherous poisoning in the process? No. In most cases, I'm betting the serious health risk only becomes one after the customers perform their voodoo disassembly on it, not because this guy is intentionally selling razor blade laced candy.
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Ok, it was a grin and not a hard-on, but face it; Computers are cool these days. to be a true nerd you have to say "Linux rules!" with a strait face ^__^
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China banned importing electrical scrap for salvage over a year ago, but organized crime continues to bring it in. The people use toxic acid baths to reclaim bits of gold. It is hazardous to their health and environment. India is also a large importer of this waste. Your computer scrap only goes to these places if you do drop it off at a recycling center. If you trash it, it goes to your local land fill. CRT monitors are very bad for the environment. Contact your local government to find out where yu can safe ly leave your CRT. If your PC works at all, schools and even jails will want it for donation.
MAKE YOUR TIME
This one is mainly to the haters in this thread who seem to think the US bares the sole burden of this junk "problem".
"Beijing has announced a clampdown on the import of electronic junk from the US and other developed countries..."
No chance yours could be one of those now, is there? Riiiighhht....
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Geeps, Its the cable companies that steel our undersidewalk area. Cabletheft= cable companies not having to comply with city and county law.
Why do they charge $40 bucks a month for advertising paid for media?
Maybe cause they don't have to comply with local law.
Long live public access!
Long live community owned cable
Down with Jerks who bully, and dimwits who get paid off
If you don't think it's worthwhile to ship chunks of metal (frex, old computer cases) to the far east for recycling, consider this:
Dunno about now, but in the 1980s, the majority of steel construction beams used in the U.S. were made in Japan (and ALL of the lightweight beams were from Japan). Where did the Japanese plants get the raw materials? The U.S. shipped crushed automobiles to Japan, where they were melted down and molded into construction beams suitable for export (considering steelworkers union wages, this was quite cost-effective compared to domestically-produced steel).
If you've ever drilled thru an I-beam and found there are hard and soft spots, that's a direct side effect of the haphazard nature of recycled steel. (The things you learn when you build your own flatbed trailer from scratch..)
Shipping via a slow freight boat is pretty cheap, so that's not an issue.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Chinese peasants have been encouraged to make money as private citizens, completely independent of the government, ever since Deng "To Get Rich Is Glorious" Xiaoping launched the opening and reform policies in 1978.
The biggest problem the Chinese government currently faces is kicking all the employees of loss-making state-owned enterprises off the government teat without sparking an insurrection of hundreds of millions of laid-off workers.
If you have any suggestions for how to solve that problem, you can put them in the suggestion box outside Zhongnanhai. I'm sure they'll be read with great interest.
"Chinese peasants have been encouraged to make money as private citizens, completely independent of the government"
...led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants.
My ass they've been encouraged to do anything but live in fear of the government in which they live under. You just stated the total anti-thesis of communist society, which undeniably China is. Let's look at their consitution, shall we? (all definitions list from here on are from Mirriam-Webster)
Article 1
The People's Republic of China is a socialist state under the people's democratic dictatorship led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants.
Socialism 2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state.
Democratic 1 : of, relating to, or favoring democracy 1a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority. b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
dictatorship 3a : a form of government in which absolute power is concentrated in a dictator or a small clique b : a government organization or group in which absolute power is so concentrated c : a despotic state
I haven't even gotten past Artical 1 of their constitution and it's so riddled with inconsistencies and bullshit it's pathetic. Oh, China is led by those peasants encouraged to make money alright. Heh. Let's continue.
Article 2
All power in the People's Republic of China belongs to the people. The National People's Congress and the local people's congresses at various levels are the organs through which the people exercise state power. The people administer state affairs and manage economic, cultural and social affairs through various channels and in various ways in accordance with the law.
While it's true that the power does belong to the people, China is certainly doing their damned best to keep them from excercising it. The "people" this artical mentions is a very small group of individuals obviously cut off from reality. I'll skip artical 3 because it simply mentions governmental power distribution. Look at it on your own time.
Artical 4
All nationalities in the People's Republic of China are equal. Bullshit. The state protects the lawful rights and interests of the minority nationalities and upholds and develops a relationship of equality, unity and mutual assistance among all of China's nationalities. Bullshit Discrimination against and oppression of any nationality are prohibited; HA!!!! any act which undermines the unity of the nationalities or instigates division is prohibited. The state assists areas inhabited by minority nationalities accelerating their economic and cultural development according to the characteristics and needs of the various minority nationalities. Regional autonomy is practiced in areas where people of minority nationalities live in concentrated communities; in these areas organs of self-government are established to exercise the power of autonomy. Bullshit All national autonomous areas are integral parts of the People's Republic of China. All nationalities have the freedom to use and develop their own spoken and written languages and to preserve or reform their own folkways and customs. Bull LeShit.
Most constitutions attempt to be true to their writing. This one is a stack of lies and I'm only 4 articals deep. If the Chinese people were given as much leeway as you and their constitution claimed, I doubt they'd have the atrocious human rights record they do or that the rest of the world would have as many issues as they do with them. News flash: It ain't just America. What Mr. Xiaoping said and what actually happened are two way different things. The long and short of it is that free enterprise is happening right now and the government is stepping in to squash it. You can claim public saftey from toxic waste, but then I have to wonder why these peasants are doing it in the first place, risking their lives to recycle this crap. Greed? Somehow, I doubt it.
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There's sufficient Uranium in the sea to power nucler plants for a million years... With the current *geological* processes of subduction and erosion adding to that stock, there's enough uranium to supply the worlds entire energy needs for the next 5 *billion* years. Yeah, it'll make the cost of uranium go to 10x-40x the current costs.. But Uranium is only 40th the cost of a kWh. (the rest is the capital investment in the plant)
With this option, energy need *never EVER* go above $.10/kW*H forever. Just moved so I don't have the URL's stating and proving this.
With new modern recycling methods we can remove almost all the re-useable stuff out of computers
If that's true, then why are we sending it to China? Unless we already *have* removed the re-usable stuff and are just sending them the broken crap that nobody wants. Funny that they don't want our trash; those poor Chinese accept gladly whatever we deign to dump on them.
why don't they let them in and build a Beowulf parallel tasking computer that would rival that of NASA's supercomputers
Hey, since you've got all the answers for China, why don't *you* build a Beowulf cluster out of the mostly-broken, crappy 486-es and take responsibility for disposing of the non-working components in your backyard? My guess is that they aren't doing it for the same reason that no one in the U.S. is doing it either -- because the rate of computing return on investment in discarded 486-es is not so good (and getting comparatively worse every month).
If you don't try, you will never gain the opportunity to fail.
Allright, so we can expect the "Medevo Beowulf Cluster" to be rivaling NASA's supercomputers next year?
Fuck you. You act like your shit doesn't stink. You prance around with your fucking "Europe is so enlightened" attitude. Tell me this motherfuckers, "Where did the majority of barbarian activities against other humans occur?" That's right...Europe!
Let's see, if we count up all the atrocities that occurred in your fucking little enlightened society we'd run out of RAM in our beowulf cluster right quick wouldn't we?
You fucking hypocirtical piece of shit bastards amuse me. You talk of how babaric we are here in the US and how we debase and devalue human life. Hell our country was founded by a fucking genocide that you Europeans created!!!!!
Now that your bastard son has grown more powerful than you can imagine, you weak ass faggotty EU card carrying fuckwads bitch and moan like GNU/Stallman about how evil we are.
Pot...kettle...black...
So shut the fuck up and realize that you're just as bad, if not worse because the US is your fucking fault!
So, I have an old dead (ie I don't know how to fix it or it's not worth my time) PC that I want to get rid of. What's the right thing to do with it?
Yes you may be correct that there is no perfect utopian country that you could move to. Some european countries seem to be better world citizens and better to their populations thatn the US but I am sure those countries have drawbacks as well. What I want is for the US to start taking the leadership role that it claims it has. Why won't our government say "fuck it, proposal xyz may not be popular but it is the right thing to do." Since GW Bush has such a high approval rating right now he could push through legislation that companies might not like but are to the benefit of society. Of course that will never happen. It seems that Republicans in particular believe that companies are the greatest thing ever thought up by human kind. Oh well, too bad for all of us.
-matt
Whatever..
This is just a bunch of political baby talk.
Either the lead gets on the hands of the struggling in china, or it gets in the air of rural America or Canada.---and that's big C for (tolerant)Capitalism
Everybody in the dead PCB gold reclamation business knows they can:
1. Save up their dead boards, bury them boxed under in the fields until the price of gold goes way up.
2. Grind up their boards with a recycle machine and send off the sampled goods to the acid bath cookers in
a. Canada or
b. rural America (illegal, trying to be out of EPA reach)
3. Sell the boards to middlemen who dream about sending the trucks loaded with boards to Canada to cash in bigger.
or
4. Sell really unsorted dirty boards and whatever dead electronics to someone else in incredibly large quantities for supercheap (Poor Asia)
any way you look at it, the global market is driven by the dream for great re-usable chips, and the staple of Gold value
(Six months ago)
Local Dallas
Mainboards : 50 cents a pound
Cards : $1.00 a pound
Gold market driven
save up a carload of boards and you could have $500 there, just in gold value.
An old Chinese woman may try to get you to help her land the large container contracts for circuit boards, then you may find out she can only pay less than what your local recyclers will.
delimma
OK, give her the unsorted mix of all the trash even cheaper, china buys it gratefully, generates some quick $, jobs, and a health problems----but who cares?! Everybody gets what they want, because of money, go home and cry about something else, China. You got enough problems already... ahem... governmentally ill speaking
English is one of the most complex languages in common usage. Chinese, on the other hand is actualy pretty simple.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
We call Taiwan the "Republic of China" (ROC), because, of course, the true government of the middle kingdom resides there. Someday the Guomindang will return to power and Chang Kaisheck will leave his temporary grave and be buried next to Sun Yet San as the Communist rebels are defeated!
(btw, no American would be bothered by the term "republic of california" or whatever because just calling california a seperate country wouldn't make it so)
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Americans should answer such questions themselves.
Nope. They should ASK such questions themselves. As we all must at sometime in our life.
Current eletronics arn't harmed by water unless they are powered. Also, some eletronic boards are washed with de-ionized water after being put together (spesificaly, Intel motherboards are).
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
"It's not bad to get rich" -- Deng Xiao Peng.
Money is being made by the private citizen, completely independent of the government and they don't like it one bit. Squash indepenence and bash the US in one blow, what could be better!?
China hasn't been an officaly communist country since Mao died, the current leadership is not anti-capitalist at all.
Can't let facts get in the way of a good screed though, no sir.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Do you live in china? Do you know anyone who lives in china? Have you ever talked to anyone who was from china?
Listen dumbass. China is not communist, you can start a bussness irrespective of the government. The chinese constitution isn't followed by anyone.
Yes, this is an instance of free enterprize being curtaled. How is it any diffrent then minimum wage and worker-saftey laws in the US?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Technofix.
When I was a kid, people built nuclear power stations. 'Don't worry', they said, 'in the next couple of decades nuclear reprocessing technology will be quite mature'. Now it's time to pull the bloody things down, and still no-one has come up with a safe solution to the waste problem. But never mind. Tachnology will fix everything. It's just around the corner.
And there will be jam for tea tomorrow.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
China is making a mistake doing this. They make a lot of money disposing of this old crap, and they'll lose it all now. And really, since when has China cared about their land? The government there has always disregarded the environment, so this is a big change.
I am only awaiting for you to give me the name (and maybe a little research to check your claims)
Your research is welcome :)
Nuclear reprocessing technology has been blocked by politics, not just technical challanges.
I disagree. English is not my natural language, but while learning it I discovered it to be one of the simplest languages out there. The only thing difficult about english is spelling it correctly (and pronouncing it correctly ofcourse, but you have that with all languages), but I'm assuming here spelling with 26 letters is still simpler than spelling with over 500 symbols.
...
Major advantages english has over other languages:
- gender of a word is ignored
- complex concepts can be explained simply by connecting lots of simple words, without any form of connection between the words but a space. In other languages you have difficult forms of connection between the simple words (I'm thinking of german here).
- although there are plenty of ways to cnojugate a verb, you can cover all times with very little conjugations. Other languages don't make it so easy (especially french). Conjugations are also usually pretty simple. In fact, knowing three basic conjugations for each verb can carry you through just about every situation. (e.g.: do, did, done)
- and so on, and so on
Apart from esperanto, english is the simplest language I know.
However, because english is an indo-european language, and chinese (whatever dialect) is not, to a chinese speaker it's probably very difficult to learn english, because there are almost no known linguistic concepts. It's like learning to speak all-over. Especially if they haven't learnt another language before. The capability to learn more than one language needs to be flexed early in life, or it becomes much harder to acquire.
Nah, I just can't stand the hypocrisy here, thanx ^__^
You need a FREE iPod Nano
(* [What country *do* you wish to be a member of?]
...err... Canada? *)
Go there. Beat it!
BTW, Canada is not signif different than the US. Osama would also flatten Canada if given a chance. He just goes after the more iconic targets first.
Table-ized A.I.
Oh, damn it. I had a 2150 node cluster supercomputer that I had been using to simulate nuclear explosions. I was trying to get rid of it, and China was my number one option. I guess that's out the window then...
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
My stereotyping shows just how good our society is at brainwashing people.
And that I had not had caffeine for about 3 days
Medevo
Well, since you bring it up, there is a much better solution to handling nuclear waste than simply burying it in limestone, and better even than placing it near subduction zones in the ocean and waiting for the Earth to gobble it up.
What is this "unrealistic" technofix you ask? geopolymerization -- we bind the liquid/solid waste in micron-sized "cages" which taken as a whole is like synthetic rock. It's many times safer than current containment; safe enough even to put on a playground (unless you completely pulverize the thing). Break a conventional waste container and it's game over; break the rock and you only release minute quanities from the cages shattered near the breakline.
Glad to meet you Pessimist. I'm an Optimist. Balance the two of us and we get Reality eventually.
--
Power to the Peaceful
Please do not insult my intelligence by comparing me to an American.
Americans buy "pet rocks". I wouldnt. I work hard in the fields for my living and I stumble accross plenty of rocks, more than sufficient for my basic existence.
Inch square "beachfront property" for $49.95... "Yeah, sure I'll take two!" say the yanks.
Please don't even get me started on the "Greenhouse Helmet" (all above courtesy of a copy of FHM discarded in my field) or canned "Arizona Air".
As for that study, I'd wager that a further 20% said they were "genuine" Americans just out of pity...
Ali the Ox