Slackware 8.1 is Released

MrSnivvel writes: "Slackware 8.1 has been released. Highlights of this release include KDE 3.0.1, GNOME 1.4.1 (with new additions like Evolution), the long-awaited Mozilla 1.0 browser, support for many new filesystems like ext3, ReiserFS, JFS, and XFS, and support for several new SCSI and ATA RAID controllers. Remember to buy your copies at http://store.slackware.com. List of download mirrors here. Public releases of Mozilla AND Slackware in the same month, I'm so happy I've soiled myself."

Comments

Nice!

[bjtuna]

I wonder how long till The Slackware Administrators' Security Toolkit will have an 8.1 version.

Anyway, go Patrick!

Re:Nice!

[bjtuna]

erm, that should have been:

www.sastk.org

darn typos.

Re:Nice!

[BrokenHalo]

Who cares? Slackware (IMHO) is so much easier to administer manually than any other distro I've tried (which is, unfortunately, more a reflection on the dependency hell I've run into with RPM-based systems in the past, but that has been a subject for other postings). My (updated) Slack 8.0 system is running so smoothly, I think I'll wait for a couple of weeks before I upgrade, though...

how many floppies

[matthew.thompson]

My first memory of Slackware was installing it off 30 odd floppies - how many does this come on?

M@T :o)

Re:how many floppies

[Hadlock]

264. and they're not in sequential order, unless you opt to do ALL the packages. (...please insert disk 9....please insert disk 83....please insert disk 63...)i really wish my last CD-ROM drive hadn't died on me :(

Re:how many floppies

[larien]

IIRC, it was about a dozen when I first tried it, but that was 6-7 years ago. Dunno what it's like now, I'm afraid as after that, I didn't use Linux for a few years and tried Redhat for a bit before sticking to Debian, mainly because of apt-get :)

Please don't take this as an excuse for a distro flamewar; some people prefer Redhat/Suse/Mandrake/whatever, I'm happy with Debian.

Re:how many floppies

[Surak]

Which one is the 556th missing one?

Whichever one you don't have. :)

Re:how many floppies

[stikves]

slackware no longer supports "any" floppy installation.

It used to support full floppy installation before (I guess) 7.0. After that you could only install bas and network series with floppies.

Now they have dropped all floppy support and merged a1, a2, a3.. into a. (a1 a2 were base system floppies).

Anyways go try it. I used pre8.1 images from slackware-current. It realy rocks. If you need floppy installation, you have to copy everything to a hard drive and boot setup from floppies (almost every distro does it this way).

Re:how many floppies

[forged]

The first version of Slackware was based on SLS which I used at the time. The first Slaskware 1.x used to fit on ~30 floppies as you describe, and the later versions of the distro would require ~80.

In the lot, there was always one or two floppies with bad sectors. So when we planned our install nights, it was always an event split in 2 parts! (We'd come back the following days with the missing/fixed floppies).

A quick Google search revealed that some sites have (or rather, had) kept the historic distribution here. If you look at the directory structure, the relationship with Slackware is striking (it's the same tree).

Re:how many floppies

[qurob]

I downloaded them from a WildCat! BBS, on a 2400bps modem. Thank god for Y-Modem Batch, or whatever it was.

It took me all night. I woke up in the morning, installed it. Typed cd, ls, vi. I wrote a C program (was just leaving Pascal), and waited 7 minutes for the damn thing to compile. I re-installed DOS, and went back to playing Duke Nukem, Tie Fighter, and Prince of Persia.

Re:how many floppies

[Gleef]

stikves writes:
slackware no longer supports "any" floppy installation.
It used to support full floppy installation before (I guess) 7.0. After that you could only install bas and network series with floppies.

I haven't tried this, but the Slackware Installation Help seems to disagree with you.

Re:how many floppies

[(startx)]

that page, and several other pages, are out of date. I've emailed pat a couple of times about it, but I guess he was to busy getting 8.1 out the door.

Re:how many floppies

[joib]

Eh? Your computer was able to run duke nukem and tie fighter while compiling a simple C program took 7 minutes? right...

And yes, it took ages to download on a 2400bps modem (I did it too ;-))

Re:how many floppies

[Jonavin]

When I saw "Slackware" I immediately thought "Is that still around?".

It was the first distro I intsalled -- on a 486SX 4MB RAM 100MB HD Laptop. I don't remember it being more than 15 floppies... but it has about 8 years. Was the kernel even at verison 1? Was it '93? '94? It's one of the first SLS releases.

Re:how many floppies

[forged]

Remember, this was in 1994-1995 ..... At that time, people would still ran MS-DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.0; CD-Rom drives were not common yet, CD-Writers did not exist for consumers unless you didn't mind spending $1000's and not everybody had a network card either. In fact, being networked was a big deal at the time, and people even managed to work without the Internet :)

Re:how many floppies

[simm_s]

Two, if you have a network card/modem/serial with a connection to the outside. Load the boot and root disks, setup the root partition, and download the rest! I have even gotten parallel port cdrom drives to work in linux!

Whoa there...

[Tranvisor]

I'm so happy I've soiled myself.

That's what I call "to much information".

Woody

[ultrabot]

I'm so excited I'm getting a Woody...

Or not.

Aagh, the temptation. I feel I *must* get a new distro soon (rh7.3 doesn't quite cut it), and Woody will probably never be released. It's Slackware for me, at least when it gets to the mirrors.

Re:Woody

[BrokenHalo]

I, too seriously considered Woody when I was last looking around for a "real" distro after an abortive foray into Mandrake; I don't have the bandwidth to download ISOs, so I mostly have to buy CDs. The simple fact is that Slack 8.0 was relatively current and available, but I couldn't find anybody here in Australia who was willing to take the time to answer enquiries for Woody CDs. As it happens, having revisited Slackware now that it's outgrown it's "satan worshipper" image, I'm glad I did - it's a fscking good distro.

Re:Woody

[Per Wigren]

Thanks! :)

A good sign

[analog_line]

The Slackware Store has been slashdotted. Good job everyone who's making that server's life hell for a good cause!

Timing is everything

[mustprotectdata]

I'm glad to see a distribution that is releasing at "the right" time. RedHat, the normal distie of choice, if only because of it's market dominance, seems to have developed the knack of releasing just too early.

i.e. - gcc (where is v3.1)?
- mozilla (not v1)
- kde 3.0.0 (effectively a late beta)

etc...

What I really want is the latest, reasonably stable version of everything. i.e I want to be current but not bleeding edge.

Go Patrick

Re:Timing is everything

[Charm]

Really the best thing about Slackware is that it is like C. Not like assembly so that you have to do everything. But not like higher level languages where everthing is done with magic tricks. When was the last time you changed a setting and your distro changed it back. That sort of behaviour is unlikely on Slackware.

The user has full control. There is no crappy config tools to get in the way. This is why it is so good for learning Unix and Linux because you have access to the raw system.

In slackware if I want to change the bitdepth of X windows I have to edit it with a text file. At first this might seem silly but when a Redhat user is trying to do something complicated his fancy tools hold him back. Slack users do not have that problem, they understand how the system works.

Slackware is also very stable thats why it doesn't use GCC 3.1 out of the box.

Re:Timing is everything

[Charm]

When was the last time you changed a setting and your distro changed it back.
Never saw that behavior with Red Hat. Is there a case of this happening with other distros, or are you making things up?

I actually saw slackware do it to someone the other day. He changed MOTD and the system changed it back after a reboot. Because MOTD is built by a script in /etc/rc.d
After the Script was altered it worked but he was confused nonetheless

Slackware is also very stable thats why it doesn't use GCC 3.1 out of the box.
That would probably also mean that Slackware is useless for C++ development. GCC 2.95 is just not very standards compliant for C++ development. But it is a very stable C compiler.

Is there something about GCC 2.95 we should know. I assume you are talking about maybe a STL problem.

Re:Timing is everything

[SN74S181]

His point, and it is a valid one, is that going in and hand editing the config files in /etc doesn't get you started in a wrestling match with a lot of scripts run out of a baroque array of GUI config tools.

Back when I ran Red Hat for a short while, after having run Slack for a long time (this was back in the Red Hat 5.0 era) I used to say 'I run Red Hat linux for about the first ten minutes until I fix things.' I hated the awkward way the Modular kernal was slugged around by Red Hat at the time, so the first thing I'd do was go in and hard code all the stuff I needed into a monolythic kernal.

I remember how mad it made me that Red Hat hard-coded in the 'tweaked' name of their special kernel in lilo.conf, so that I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out why my rebuilt kernal wouldn't work before discovering what was going on. I remember their tweaking of the Xconfig script of their 'version' of the kernal source so that certain options couldn't be selected.

It wasn't long before I went back to Slack.

Re:Timing is everything

[MSG]

- gcc (where is v3.1)?

It wouldn't have been compatible with the rest of the series, and hasn't been out long enough to be tested well. That's the biggest part of your misperception of "just too early". For major system components, "just to early" is *way* too early.

- mozilla (not v1)

So it doesn't have the 1.0 stamp on it... Can you name any major flaws in the release? Would it have been worth delaying the WHOLE distro to wait for those? Mozilla had a well known release timeline; if Red Hat thought that 1.0 was worth the wait, they knew when it was coming.

- kde 3.0.0 (effectively a late beta)

Way off. KDE 3.0.0 in Red Hat Linux 7.3 is a CVS snapshot from just before 3.0.1. On the other side of release from beta, this release is considerably more stable than the KDE team's 3.0.0 packages.

Re:Timing is everything

[MSG]

go read usenet comp.os.linux.* you'll find its called pam

pam doesn't change settings, that's rediculous. pam is just an authentication library.

gcc 3.x is currently blacklisted by everyone its just too full of bugs for a production enviroment

Sounds to me like you're just repeating what you've heard, with no understanding of the subject. 3.0 wasn't a very good release, it had problems in several specific areas. 3.1 has been spoken on quite favorably, on the other hand. It seems to be an excellent release, and will be the base compiler of United Linux, and quite likely Red Hat's next Linux distro.

Re:Timing is everything

[MSG]

...all C++ related shared libraries...must be recompiled before you can link with them.

Yeah, no shit. GCC 3.x doesn't produce C++ binaries compatible with those built by previous GCC's. That's not news, that's the way it's always been. One of the benefits of gcc 3.x is that they've promised a stable C++ ABI.

The fact that you have to rebuild the C++ libraries to build C++ applications doesn't mean that GCC isn't production-ready. It means that the base system wasn't build with GCC 3.x and nothing more.

Re:Timing is everything

[eyez]

When was the last time you changed a setting and your distro changed it back.
Never saw that behavior with Red Hat. Is there a case of this happening with other distros, or are you making things up?

Suse used to do this, and a lot. You'd edit /etc/resolv.conf, and then the next time yast ran, it would change the file back, then tell you you were a naughty child who needed a spanking for editing things he shouldn't, and that next time you should have Mommy YAST do it.

Re:Timing is everything

[bgarcia]

Find file with (say) hostname in. Edit hostname. Next time you reboot, the goddamn system has replaced it with one it had elsewhere.

Ok, the only file I found with the hostname in it is /etc/sysconfig/network.

If I change the name in that text file and reboot, the machine gets the new name!

So... you're mistaken.

Why, I remember back in the days of Red Hat 5.1 there used to be endless warnings all over every config file I tried to edit; "DO not edit this by hand! You'll break (whatever the editor was called that you were supposed to use)", LinuxConf I think it was...

And you'll be happy to know that there are no traces of linuxconf in the 7.x releases of Red Hat Linux.

I have a RH6.1 box lying around that does have linuxconf, and that message says nothing about breaking things. Here's the message for sendmail.cf:

# This file is built out of files in /usr/lib/linuxconf/mailconf
# If you want to do manual modifications to one file
# do not modify files in /var/tmp/linuxconf-root/usr/lib/linuxconf/mailc onf, instead
# copy the file in /etc/mail/mailconf/
# and do the modification there.
# Linuxconf will use your file from now on.
# It will even find out that the sendmail.cf
# must be rebuilt.

It's just telling you *where* to make changes, so that they work seamlessly with linuxconf.

If you never plan on using linuxconf to reconfigure sendmail, then you can ignore this advice.

Red Hat is broken, as far as I'm concerned. Unless the new version magically fixes all of these things, which, to be honest, I doubt.

Nice of you to keep a closed mind. Enjoy!

Re:Timing is everything

[bgarcia]

Is there something about GCC 2.95 we should know. I assume you are talking about maybe a STL problem.

It's not a secret. It's just that gcc 2.95's version of the standard C++ library is extremely non-compliant.

The GCC standard C++ library has been completely re-written, and I would venture to say that it is now probably one of the most standards-compliant implementations now available.

You can read more about it here.

Re:Timing is everything

[bgarcia]

go read usenet comp.os.linux.* you'll find its called pam

Huh? PAM is an authentication/authorization mechanism controlled by text config files found in /etc/pam.d.

Text config files... that you need to edit... There is no "automatic configuration" there.

don't be a cheap skate and go buy the cd set and read the little book it'll tell you to run this little program that'll set up your printer in less time then redhats bloated gui ever could

Dude, WTF are you talking about?

That was the most information-free, run-on sentence I've ever seen.

What CD set? Which book? What program?

The printer setup tool in RedHat is quick and easy. Try it sometime, so you won't be talking about things for which you have no clue.

gcc 3.1 breaks all c++ librarys and for any distro to upgrade to it at this point would be suicide as it has not been tested.

C++ libraries built with gcc 2.95 will not play nicely with C++ programs build with gcc 3.x.

That's one of the reasons for the change in major version number.

If you recompile the libraries with the new compiler as well as the programs, then everything works.

Re:Timing is everything

[bgarcia]

jee what are we talking about in this forum, oh thats right slackware 8.1 so i must of meant buy the cd's from store.slackware.com and guess what inside the cover is a little booklet with instructions in it

So, what's stopping you from mentioning the program, or providing links?

Or are you too lazy to provide information and would rather just troll?

grow a brain moron

Guess that answers my last question.

guess what i tried redhat it sucks

If you think that *any* of the mainstream linux distributions "sucks", then you must have no idea how to administer any linux operating system. They're all built from the same basic components and have the same packages. I can understand preferring one over another, or liking the features of another better. But to say that Red Hat sucks? Please.

as for gcc 3 where the hell have you been for the past few months that product is cursed

Cursed, eh? Nice technical description there. I guess we need to excorcise it to get it working?

It's a new major release. It's buggy. It will get better.

For people who want to do C++ development, Red Hat's gcc 2.96 is a nice choice. It's a well-tested snapshot of the pre-3.0 development tree.

List of unofficial mirrors here

[Anonymous Coward]

rsync://slackware.orbital.us/slackware/slackware-8 . /
rsync://slackware.orbital.us/slackware/slackware -8 . -iso/
ftp://slackware.orbital.us/slackware/slackware-8 .1 /
ftp://slackware.orbital.us/slackware/slackware-8 .1 -iso/

rsync://rsync.devney.net/slackware/slackware-8.1 -i so/
ftp://devney.net/slackware-8.1-iso/

rsync://drazi.ifjf.uib.no/slackware/slackware-8. 1/
rsync://drazi.ifjf.uib.no/slackware/slackware-8. 1- iso

ftp://inferno.bioinformatics.vt.edu/linux-distro s/ slackware/slackware-8.1/
ftp://inferno.bioinformatics.vt.edu/linux-distro s/ slackware/slackware-8.1-iso/

rsync://rsync.rez-gif.supelec.fr/pub/slackware/s la ckware-current/
ftp://ftp.rez-gif.supelec.fr/pub/slackware/slack wa re-current/

rsync://closeedge.net/slackware/slackware-8.1/
ftp://closeedge.net/pub/mirrors/ftp.slackware.co m/ slackware-8.1/

ftp://ftp.linux.ucla.edu/pub/slackware/slackware -8 . /

rsync://mindflux.dns2go.com/slackware/slackware- 8. 1/

rsync://stalecracker.org/slackware/slackware-8.1 /
ftp://stalecracker.org:2121/pub/slackware-8.1/
rsync://diethanks.dyndns.org/slackware/

rsync://alphageek.dyndns.org/slackware/slackware -8 . /
rsync://alphageek.dyndns.org/slackware/slackware -8 . -iso/
ftp://alphageek.dyndns.org/slackware/slackware-8 .1 /
ftp://alphageek.dyndns.org/slackware/slackware-8 .1 -iso/

Re:List of unofficial mirrors here

[Kiaser Zohsay]

Excellent list! I'm getting 270KB/sec from vt.edu...

Slackware is dead, my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux how Linux was intended. A single CD of beautiful and clean functionality. Minimal, stable and secure - and yet manageable. Slackware should be required for all Linux newbies. AFTER learning to edit rc.files and inetd.conf with vi, AFTER you've mastered ls, AFTER you've learned to download and compile, THEN you may play with KDE. Think how much better the world would be.

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[SealBeater]

Yep a lot more windows user and linux haters - slackware is not a product to learn linux on for beginners - it is however the best damn Linux out there and once you know a bit about linux you will love it - but please dont install it as your first attempt at linux

Sorry, no offense, but that is bullshit. I started off on slackware, downloaded 50 floppies worth over 3 days on a 14.4 and never looked back. It's the only way to properly learn. I've been using slackware ever since and have had no reason to use anything else. If the only way a person is willing to use and learn linux is to have a gui-fied windows clone in front of them, quite frankly I would rather they never make the attempt.

Slackware and Debian are oses that dont suffer fools lightly..

Thank god.

SealBeater

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[ishark]

Sorry, no offense, but that is bullshit. I started off on slackware, downloaded 50 floppies worth over 3 days on a 14.4 and never looked back. It's the only way to properly learn.

This is actually the *problem* with Slackware/Debian. I want to learn, so I don't mind reading documentation, but most of the people I know don't care at all, they just want "click-n-run" and (evidently) they can handle all the insanities of Win in order to get it. Right now I'm running Mandrake 8.2 ("click-n-run", but careful with upgrades) as dekstop and debian-stable (long install/config, but 0-time updating) as server.
When I propose linux to one of my win-friends I always go for Mandrake, ALWAYS, since I know that they'd run scared at the first debian message of the type "You must now decide which modules to load into your kernel"....
As for Slackware, it was my first distro (3.0 I think? 1.0.2x kernel, anyway) and it may well be possible that I go back to it one day or another.... debian is nice, but I feel it too "rigid", and Mandrake is not always so tolerant of manual-config-file-editing.

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[smittyoneeach]

Slackware should be required for all Linux newbies.

I disagree. Slackware was over my head whenever I tried it--7.x or something. The idea of a fistful of ASCII .conf files in standard locations that control everything was too simple and obvious for me to grasp. Forgive me, Father--I did Windows.
Now that I have spent some time with a RH distro, and grasp *nix-think to a sufficient depth, I'm strongly considering a return to Slack...

A question for the community: the reason to go for Slack over, say, Gentoo, is that Slack arrives as canned object files ready to install, whereas Gentoo assumes we have a pipe, time and skill to pull down all the source over TCP/IP and compile from scratch, no? In other words, Gentoo requires a higher level of skill than Slack to build and tweak?

...dons asbestos underwear...

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[13Echo]

It is strange that you say that. A lot of people (including myself) have found Slackware to be easier to install than Red Hat. Even Lycoris isn't foolproof (chokes on startup if it doesn't like your hardware and can't autodetect it). There are ways around anything, but I like things simple and to the point. Slackware offers that to me. Nothing else does. I like the other distributions, but I feel that many of them are only for people that are intimidated by using the console (which is o.k., actually). The other distributions make things all the more difficult at times with proprietary tools that don't always work.

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[SealBeater]

I'm guessing you were somewhat computer literate when you downloaded those 50
floppies too, eh?

Actually no, I had been using windows (read: computers) for about a year. I was super in love
with windows 95, thought it was so cool. I saw an enlightenment screenshot and
that was that. Started the download of slackware a week later. Even though I
knew nothing about *nix at the time, I figured that "bare to the metal"
approach was best to learn properly. Kept my windows machine around long
enough to print out every piece of documentation I could find, cause I figured
it might be a while before I got on the net and read, read, read. It's too bad
more people aren't inclined to do the same.


There is no "proper" way to learn Linux

Yes, there is actually. I know plenty of people who are as self-taught as I
was (oh did I mention that no one taught me linux?) who have
used the "softer" distros who still are lost when faced with the console.
Anybody who needs a gui to change an ip address learned linux the "wrong" way,
IMO

SealBeater

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[SealBeater]

Ah yes. The typical geek lost in his computer world. I hate to tell you but the
rest of the world isn't like you.

Yes, I am aware. Don't complain then when a) I get paid more than you because
I possess greater knowledge b) you have to come to me all the time to fix your
problems c) you get rooted/owned and I don't. I have the belief that if you
wish to learn a thing, learn it properly. If you don't, that's fine, but don't
be angry at others for doing what you choose not to do.

SealBeater

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[SealBeater]

This is actually the *problem* with Slackware/Debian. I want to learn, so I
don't mind reading documentation, but most of the people I know don't care at
all, they just want "click-n-run"

This is going to be a long thread, I can tell. You shouldn't confuse
"click-n-run" with "wanting to learn". I always recommend slackware if anyone
asks me what is a good first distro, partially because it is less hand holding.
I had a friend who went to a tech school and had a class on linux, they gave
him mandrake. Do you know what the problem with that is? You don't learn
"linux" per say, you learn a distribution. You don't learn fdisk, you learn
disk-druid and drakeconf. You don't learn tar zxvf, you learn rpm -ui. You
never learn how to do things without a gui, because as long as you are using
these things, you are never faced with the need to. Slackware and LFS (as was
mentioned earlier) will teach you "linux". If you want to learn to build a
house, you don't go out and buy a house and walk around the inside examining
it, you read a book and build a house. Granted, not everyone wants to learn
the internals of an OS to a high degree, that's fine. But don't say a person
wants to learn, when all they really want to do is get up and running. FYI,
slackware is very easy to get up and running.

SealBeater

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[Bandman]

It just depends man. Many people ask me what version of linux would be right for them, and this is what I them: "Do you want to do, or do you want to know? Because if you just want a workable system, then use RedHat, because it will set everything up for you, and you'll have a good workable system. If you want to know how things work, /why/ they act the way they do, then you need to start on Slackware."

Because in my mind, both are completly ok choices. There are some people who just want to use a computer. This is why Windows has such a huge market share. Most of the people don't care one way or another. And if RedHat can give them that, then there's nothing wrong with them using it. People like us though, we Slackware users, are a different breed :) We can't stand not to know how our OS works. The fact that we have ran slackware for any length of time is a testiment to that. Anyone who can spend more than a month using slackware should probably stay with it, becuase not much else would make them happy, or at least that's the way I feel.

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[SealBeater]

I agree absolutely. That's exactly what I am saying, if you want to
learn go for slack. If you just want a pretty *nix
workstation (tho not as pretty as someone who really knows what they are doing
:), go for something else. Not that using slack precludes you from having a
pretty *nix workstation. It's all in what your goals are. Tho, I do have to
wonder why anyone would use any *nix if they don't want to learn about it.

SealBeater

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[Bandman]

>Tho, I do have to wonder why anyone would use
> any *nix if they don't want to learn about it.

I know what you mean, but I rationalize it like this...If RedHat can bring more MS drones into the Linux fold, it can't be a bad thing. Once Linux becomes an acceptable business solution, then it's not just RH that gains...it's the whole community. We "zealots" just have to be careful not to ostracize the non-technical linux users. Without being /REALLY/ condescending, think of the gurus as shephards for the sheep.

There may come a time (and it's probably not that far off) where linux will become the defacto MIS/IT OS, kind of like Macs in media shops. You don't see a newspaper or magazine without macintoshes, and you don't (or won't soon) see an IT shop without Linux boxen.

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[el_chicano]

That's exactly what I am saying, if you want to learn go for slack. If you just want a pretty *nix workstation (tho not as pretty as someone who really knows what they are doing :), go for something else. Not that using slack precludes you from having a pretty *nix workstation.

How exactly does running a distribution like Mandrake or Red Hat prevent you from learning linux? I don't really see a logical connection between the two. I started with Slack way back when and I'll admit learned a lot about Linux that way, but I have known others that started with Red Hat or Mandrake who have learned al lot about *nix that way.

While I love the CLI, the pretty GUI is nice too. While it is nice to be able to administer a server solely using through a CLI, I find I can get more work done using VNC. That way it is possible to run multiple CLI sessions at the same time while still having the GUI tools available to you...

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[axxackall]

Slackware should a part of University course, where students are:

• not lazzy
• eager to learn
• having time to learn

Newbies in Wallmart should take Mandrake or RedHat.

Or better Yellow Dog Linux :))

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[aussersterne]

When I installed slackware for the first time (back at v2, from several boxes of floppies) I had never used Linux before. It was the best computing and networking experience of my life to try to get Slackware and a small handful of 10b2-connected PCs to do what I wanted. When you are looking right into the guts of the system, as you are with Slackware, it is easy rather than difficult to come to some understanding of just how much more powerful Unix/Linux are than Windows.

And today, there's a reason people come to me for Linux advice now, a reason that publishers will print my Linux books... It's because I know what I'm doing. And it's all thanks to Slackware, which wouldn't allow me to get away with anything or ignore any small piece of documentation on my quest for functionality. Thanks to Slackware, I know how to make Linux work for me at what I want it to do -- not simply how to chose a task from the list of what Red Hat thinks Linux can do.

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[reflective recursion]

I disagree. My first unix-style OS was FreeBSD, which I used for a week. Then I decided to try Linux (to see what the fuss was about) and installed Slackware (IIRC, 3.2). Both Slack and FBSD worked similar, and both had a "clean" feel about them. I would recommend either to a person new to unix-flavor OSes. Back then I would _not_ have recommended Debian (I had issues w/ dselect back then, IIRC). I also tried Red Hat (IIRC I tried 4.x and then 5.2). Out of all the above, Slackware was the easiest (along w/ FreeBSD, from what I can remember). I'd probably give Debian another shot though. I will definately _not_ use Red Hat again. I'm avoiding it like the plague. There is a certain "fake" quality about Red Hat and the way it hides its unix nature. Seems as if it doesn't want to be a *ix anymore (I think the turning point was seeing fvwm95.. ewwww).

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[thrillbert]

Sorry, no offense, but that is bullshit. I started off on slackware, downloaded 50 floppies worth over 3 days on a 14.4 and never looked back

Ditto that here! Although my first install was only 36 floppies who someone else pained over the download, it was still the *BEST* way for me to learn *REAL* system administration of a Linux system. None of this crap of packages and utils to disable daemons.. if you don't want something starting, then 'vi' your /etc/rc.d/rc.* files damnit! ;)

On a lighter note, and more as a suggestion.. Ordering the CD from the site.. umm.. maybe they can put all the options together in a single page so that I can just order without having to go through 5 pages before the order is placed.. can't you use the extra bandwidth for something more usefull? Quake? Pr0n? Just a suggestion..

Can't wait to get it though..

---
Maybe now we can have Slackware in the /. polls again...

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[q-soe]

Seeing as i have now been branded a troll (open comment and opinion is alive and well on here) i feel i should explain why i said what i did. I have used slackware personally for about 5 years and i run it and debian here.

I made the observation i did based on giving people slackware as their first linux and then having to help them - these were average people who had never ever used anything but Windows 95. Technically savvy windows users will find slackware a good starting point but then again they are less likely to become frustrated with it.

The average person like that gui fied front end as it is familiar and helps them ease into linux - you need to remember that there are people out there who have never worked with a command line and for them when confronted with nothing but it gets scary as hell.

Not everyone has a linux guru to call on - thats why i recommended the other Distros ahead of slackware - purely easing them into it. I have had great success with Lycoris (at home and in corporates) because it looks familiar to them and they can use it without the massive learning curve in front of them that a command line only OS presents.

I can understands many of the points put forward but take a step back and remember that most if not all of you were hardly beginners at computers and you wanted and had time to learn - this goes to the root of an argument about Linux on the desktop and i respect the opinions that some of you have put forward - but surely the key to linux is choices - if a distro like mandrake or lycoris changes one more user from windows and onto open source then thats one less slave to the corporate path and surely that cannot be all bad?

Re:Slackware is dead, my ass

[q-soe]

"I started playing with Slackware 1.01 in early 1994 "

But think for a second - in 1994 you would need to be more technically knowledgeable that you needed to be in 2002 - 1994 was pre windows 95 and the PC world was still DOS based - you needed to know what you were doing - and running a BBS was hardly a point and shoot thing...

In other words dont you think that you may have had more knowledge of how a computer ticked than the average mum and dad these days ? Slackware is not forgiving if you have never used a command line - i put it to you that none of us had a problem but then i suggest you find your mum or your boss and give it to them and get them to run it - you may find what im getting at...

I have been branded as a troll on here for expressing my opionion more times in the last week than in 5 years previously - so at risk of it again please understand that when i say Slackware is not a beginners OS i mean not someone who has only ever used windows and has NO understanding of how and OS actually works - Joe Average. Sometimes we all forget that we are a lot more techincally skilled than we realise.

Re:I've had it, good riddance...

[friedmud]

Really?? I could have sworn I saw a BSD story hit the frontpage a day or two ago. FreeBSD 4.6, I think, had come out.

Slashdot has always had a more pro linux stance - thus them getting incorporated into the Open Source Development Network (OSDN). That said, I think they report pretty fairly. It is hard for me to believe that BSD has a larger user base than linux, and since linux is "all the rave" right now it should be understandable that there would be more stories on it - just as there were more news stories on BSD before linux came out....

Derek

Great

[tsa]

I just downloaded 8.0 for a colleague. Now we can start all over again... :-)

Re:Great

[Antipop]

Same thing just happened to me. My 8.0 ISO finished and I hit slackware.com to look something up and I see the announcement for 8.1.

Oh the joys of downloading large files many times..

Only one CD?

[wackysootroom]

I cant believe that they can still fit this on one CD! Keep up the good work Patrick!

Re:reinstall?

[zloppy303]

this time i recommend you DO reformat your drives, with a journalling filesystem :) slack 8.1 supports 'em all (jfs,xfs,reiserfs,ext3fs)

i'm going for the jfs...

"so happy I've soiled myself"

[wiredog]

Ummm. Thanks for sharing that tidbit from your personal life. So Slack makes you lose control of your bodily functions? "This is not a distro for using, it is a distro for laying aside and avoiding."

A few pointers...

[NoMercy]

Please do not download the ISO's from the primary slackware site, it only has a 6Mb/s bandwidth and all it takes is a few people with cable modems or DSL to totally flood it, then there is no bandwidth left for the mirrors to use and thus the rest of us have to wait longer, only check the primary site for checksums and file sizes so you can later check if your local mirror has got the full ISO transfered.

Re:A few pointers...

[JimDabell]

What's the point in mirrors if none of them are up to date for the peak demand period?

Re:A few pointers...

[JimDabell]

I asked what the point was, not why they weren't up to date. Why not give download permission to mirrors before announcing it and making it available to the rest of us? It's hardly productive to have *zero* available download sites - I must have gone through about half the mirror sites before giving up.

Re:A few pointers...

[jred]

You could do what I do, get excited about the announcement, wait a week, download w/ ease...

Re:A few pointers...

[GC]

Tough... I'm doing it right now, simply because it's the only place that let me log in and do the download as well as probably being the only place that actually has the ISO image in full (from what I've heard).

If we had a good P2P protocol we might be able to more efficiently handle the Slackware new release distribution problems that seem to occur all the time.

The fact that I am only getting 5kBytes a second tells me that am not alone...

wget -b -o ~/logfile -t 0 -c --passive-ftp -r ftp://your.local.mirror/slackware-8.1-iso

Once store.slackware.com recovers I'll buy the CDs as well.

Why as why?

[sonnyjz]

Are you joking?

Slackware is easy as 1-2-3 to install and takes about 20 minutes to complete.

You say it supports obsolete ext/2 fs? I beg to differ, supports all of the filesystems that the 2.4.x supports. READ THE README for more information. Or do you ignore documentation?

You say you have to edit at least 2000 files? I also beg to differ. You don't have to edit a thing, but I suggest you edit a handful of the rc files to make sure you aren't loading a ton of unneccasary modules and services.

Finally recompiling your kernel is a good idea. Or do you also ignore meaningless tasks like that?

Doing all of the above is done in all distro's for any person that runs linux or is interested in running a tight ship for their favorite distro.

As far are your *hints* go I got one for you.
Read documentation and get a clue before you attempt to bash something you have no idea about.

Believe me, you won't sound as simple as you really are.

Soiling

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm so happy I've soiled myself.

Me too, but I did it on purpose!

Re:excuse me but

[Zeek]

Gentoo compiles EVERYTHING specificly foryour system as you download. Slackware is just a basic i386 compiled (no enhancements in the compiling) so gentoo would in theory be faster if you can get it to run right in the first try
Zeek
now how does grub like 3 operating systems!

Seems so long ago

[Graspee_Leemoor]

A week today it will be exactly 6 years since I first installed Linux. The distribution that I used was Slackware 3.

After using it for a bit and becoming more acquainted with linux however, I could see that even the latest downloadable version of Slackware (I got 3.0.0 from the book "Linux Unleashed") had really old versions of things, so I "upgraded" to Redhat, which in those days, at least on #linux was the leetest of the leet.

At this point I could ask if slackware is more up-to-date these days, but then that would be a very "Ask Slashdot" thing to do, since I could just go and check for myself.

graspee

ISO is missing some packages.

[wackysootroom]

From the readme in the 8.1-iso directory.

Note that for space reasons, the KDEI (KDE i18n) series could not be
included on this ISO, and I apologize for the inconvenience. If you need
KDE translations, you can pick them up here:

ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-8. 1/slackware/kdei/

Other things that aren't on this disc that you might need to pick up
"a la carte" include the boot floppy images and rootdisks (if you can boot
this CD-ROM, you won't need these), ZipSlack, and the source code. All
of these extras are available from our FTP site:

ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-8. 1/

Or, pick up the official 4 CD-ROM Slackware disc set here:

http://store.slackware.com

Enjoy!

Patrick Volkerding
volkerdi@slackware.com

What I don't like about Slackware ...

[Skapare]

... I fix for myself. Slackware is so much easier to do things like rewriting all the init scripts. I don't have the time to create my own distribution, so I very much appreciate all the valuable work Pat V and others put into making this. Now to wait for the store to be un-slashdotted so I can put in my order for a couple of box sets.

Yay Slackware!

[Gleef]

Go Slackware! My favorite of the distributions I seldom use. Incredibly flexible, and with some of the best support for old and odd hardware out there.

Quick questions about the new version:

• Does it still support floppy installation? (Someone said no, but the website says yes, which one is right?)
• Does it still support UMSDOS installations? Yes, UMSDOS is an abomination, but sometimes such abominations are necessary to get the job done.
• I heard that a few versions ago, they added some support for System V style init.d scripts. Is that true?

Re:Yay Slackware!

[adolf]

Yes, you can still do a floppy install, but not of the -whole-thing-. The idea is that you're able to load enough of the system from floppies to get the machine usable and onto the network, at which point you're free to install the rest with ftp downloads, NFS-shared CD-ROM drives, or whatever means suits you.

Sure, it does UMSDOS. No reason not to - the code's been there for ages and works well, why throw it out? My first Slackware install was UMSDOS.

It might support some aspect of SysV init by now, but I wouldn't know. I'm a BSD fan. ;)

Please, enlighten me...

[labratuk]

I'm so happy I've soiled myself

Is that supposed to mean:

- The fact that I've soiled myself brings me great pleasure.

- My immense happiness has caused me to soil myself.

...?

Re:Help with Slack

[seosamh]

Well, you could write to the info mail account at
slackware.com and ask. The change log for the
current (which became 8.1) often cited individuals
who reported specific issues during beta test and
release candidate testing.

Besides that, according to the FAQ:

The most obvious way you can help with Slackware is to use it! The
more people that use it, the more people that can find and report
bugs. This will make Slackware even more stable than it is
now. Another obvious way is to purchase a CD set. This helps to
support everyone working on Slackware, and allows us to work on new
versions. You can also email us and tell us what programs need to be
added.

You can also jump on the forum and answer other users'
questions. Finally, you can help get the word out on Slackware. Help
advocate the distribution - especially to the potential users who are
still looking for their distribution.

SLS lives !

[forged]

More research on the topis and I found .... (drums) .....

Slashdot announcement of Linux turning 8 years old.

Some pretty insightful comments are attached the the story suggesting that SLS may still have been used by some users at that time, such as #1676775 or #1676797 (there are probably more).

The whole thing has a weird sensation of deja-vu and old memories revisited !

Re:somewhere to buy Slack?

[zaren]

Hey does someone know where I can buy Slack in the Netherlands?

Oh, you cannot buy true Slack, my friend... Slackware? Sure, no problem. But *Slack*? That's a whole other kettle of aquatic sea creatures...

-----
Let "them" know you're not a terrorist!

Re:reinstall?

[SealBeater]

FYI, you can upgrade to ext3 without reformatting.

SealBeater

All Linux distributions need Kazaa-like installers

[emil]

Download a bootnet floppy or static Linux executible which checks a list of mirrors, tests bandwidth to find the fastest, and downloads the ISOs and/or does your install.

RedHat up2date seems to use such a mechanism; download times off this network are much faster than updates.redhat.com.

I screwed up my main Linux system this weekend, and hunting for a fast mirror on win98 is annoying.

WAKE UP MODERATORS!

[swagr]

The parent post is currently rated "-1 Overated".

Let me explain why the parent post is both humorous and insightfull.
This post is a reply to the statement Cheers to the slackware developers. (note the s )
Most Slackware users know that the Slackware distro is very much a one man show: "Patrick Volkerding".
see this and you'll note that the rest of the team works on ports, the website, etc. but not the distro.

The above poster saw an opportuinity to correct the first poster, AND do it in a humorous way. It's funny because it catches us off guard (we know there is only one developer but out of habit we just say "developers" because most distro's aren't a one man show). Furthermore, the author of this post was in no way rude or disrespectful to any poster, Patrick Volkerding or Slashdot.

Anyway, I'm expecting my "offtopic" moderation any moment now.
Standing up for poster's rights and active opponent of bad moderation since 2002.

Re:About that 'mozilla' browser

[schon]

Is it Slackware's browser, like Konqueror for KDE?

Slackware doesn't have 'a' browser; in addition to Mozilla, it ships with Konqueror (if you installk KDE), Netscape 4.77, Lynx, Galeon, and others... all of which are optional - you're not forced to use (or even install) any of them.

Yeah, but what about

[rutledjw]

the dreaded RPM? After trying Slack, getting used to it and finally liking it (my biggest mistake was appreciating simplicity) I had to give it up. Even before I tried Slack, I was not a fan of RPM. IMHO, it's "installation through obsfucation" (which I have mightily mis-speeled).

The issue is that as a Java dork, I tend to use some IBM tools, actually I have to for this new job. I have to issue with the tools themselves, they perform a function. But they INSTALL via RPM. Despite the fact that my Slack install had all the packages mighty IBM wanted, they were not registered via RPM, and thus were non-existant to IBM tool X,Y&Z...

So I had to re-install using Mandrake and cussing (like a sailor in a storm) removed every bloody package I could find that I didn't need/want. I like Slack best of the distros, but I really do wish there was a way to make RPM type installs be able to "see" packages (libraries, whatever) NOT installed via RPM.

If anyone knows how to do this, I'd appreciate enlightenment, until then, I'll sit here - grumpy. But I really AM a nice person after this first cup o' coffee

Re:Yeah, but what about

[(startx)]

rpm2tgz, then you can cd / ; tar -zxvf packagename.tgz. or if you want to install it rpm wise, use the force and nodeps options of rpm.

I tend to agree

[rutledjw]

with this fellow. I think the biggest issues with wizards, gui-helpers and other demons from h3ll is that they tend to shield the user from the OS. Therefore people never really understand what is happening

In the windows world, this is most likely a positive thing (token Windows cheap shot, acutally I feel that MS doesn't want people to know so they can control compatibility, but that's another topic). But with Linux I feel it's important to have a better understanding of what goes on at the OS-level so you can

• Better deal with problems
• Understand WHY security updates are important
• Help beta test, etc. (if that's your thing)

MHO, of course

EOL

Hooray!

[Mister Snee]

And to think I just went and downloaded the entire slackware-current source tree to try out RC1 only three days ago. -_-

Seriously though, Slack 8.1 looks great. There are a few little tweaks that really make a difference (for instance, I thought I saw ESD behaving at one point) and some of the stuff packaged with it is just cool (am I the only one who noticed the full-colour Lynx? :D).

My only complaint is one I can't verify with the actual CD release of Slack 8.1, but at least with RC1 it was very very hard to do a clean "upgrade" of my current system. In fact I eventually had to back up all my important configuration files and delete the entire filesystem except for the directory where I'd made a copy of the -current tree and the utilities I needed to "installpkg". Nothing short of that would make it work cleanly. This isn't really a big deal for desktop systems but it makes me very nervous about upgrading my servers, most of which are running Slack 8.0 or 7.1.

Still, a great release that was well worth the wait.

Re:Hooray!

[adolf]

The general trick with Slackware is to only upgrade those packages which need upgrading, with a "if it's not broke, don't fix it" mentality. Use upgradepkg, or removepkg/installpkg to get this done.

I've been upgrading my Slackware desktop machine peicemeal since 3.0. It runs the latest, greatest versions of everything I care about, but I'm pretty sure I haven't upgraded awk, sed, ncurses or SVGAlib in years. Some more frequently-used software gets updated as often as Patrick releases it, such as X, and I keep a few smaller things on the bleeding edge (LAME, grip, etc) by compiling by hand.

I don't care if I don't have the latest versions of esd, lpr, KDE, Gnome, or a slew of other random programs, because I seldom/never use them.

Subscribe to the slackware-security list and you'll stay updated as to things which might need fixing, even if they're not broke.

In my experience, old releases of slackware tend to cooperate very well with new binary packages of stuff.

LPRng

[MSG]

Well, it looks like this version finally includes LPRng.

I've been convinced that no one in slackware gives a damn about security since 8.0 included lpr-0.48, a remotely root exploitable BSD based lpr that was fixed YEARS before 8.0 was released. Hello? Someone is asleep at the wheel.

At the same time, I thought it was quite funny. The slackware users that I work with were complaining about Red Hat when I was hired because "it ships with a remotely exploitable lpr running by default". At that time, that hadn't been true for over two years.

Re:All Linux distributions need Kazaa-like install

[Hard_Code]

BitTorrent

PraBob for SLACK...

[MsGeek]

Slackware was my first distro too. It loaded beautifully on a freaky system...would you believe a 486 with PCI slots? I'm actually going to buy Slack 8.1...I have a couple of elderly machines for which Slack would be ideal. 486SLC IBM EduQuest 35 all in one with 16MB and an ancient NEC proprietary HD? Slack will probably work, even if I have to use ZipSlack to make it work.

I was a 100% green newbie when I used Slack the first time. I'm now a veteran of Mandrake/Red Hat/insert name of hand-holding distro here/ but I am actually very excited that a new Slackware is out.

The Subgenius must have SLACK! PraBob!

Slackware 8.1.01 ...

[leiz]

There's been some last minute updates to slackware. From the changelog:

Wed Jun 19 07:02:39 PDT 2002
Slackware 8.1.01-stable is released.
a/sysvinit-2.84-i386-19.tgz: Added -M to fix quotacheck for reiserfs.
d/cvs-1.11.2-i386-2.tgz: Added docs in text format.
n/apache-1.3.26-i386-1.tgz: Upgraded to apache-1.3.26.
This fixes the issue described in:
"CERT Advisory CA-2002-17 Apache Web Server Chunk Handling Vulnerability"
While the impact of this issue is minimal on 32 bit Linux systems, we felt it
was important enough to stop the presses and get these fixes in before sending
the Slackware 8.1 discs in for replication.
(* Security fix *)
n/mod_ssl-2.8.9_1.3.26-i386-1.tgz: Upgraded to mod_ssl-2.8.9_1.3.26.
rootdisks/rescue.dsk: Added network/pcmcia scripts.

Tue Jun 18 10:47:47 PDT 2002
Slackware 8.1-stable is released! :-)

Re:Slackware 8.1.01 ...

[leiz]

Oh, btw, the md5sum for slackware 8.1 (.01) ISO is

0a39f9ea50d63a668e58703479f02da3 ./slackware-8.1- install.iso

Re:reinstall?

[tzanger]

ext3 has failed me more than once on my Red Hat systems, and the performance plain sucks (from what I've seen).

What were you doing to break it? It's true that performance isn't quite what ext2 is but for this notebook and my playing with ACPI, having a jfs that stores not only metadata but also the actual data in its transaction log is very nice. (at least I belive it does store everything, not just metadata...)

Yet another mirror

[MentlFlos]

For any of you slack junkies who just can't find it or find it fast enough.... ftp over to mirror.ce.rit.edu It's not a blazing fast machine, but it is far from slow. Happy downloading.

Re:WAKE UP MODERATORS! ( RU STUPID?)

[GC]

The parent post is currently rated "-1 Overated".

Let me explain why the parent post is both humorous and insightfull.
This post is a reply to the statement Cheers to the slackware developers. (note the s )
Most Slackware users know that the Slackware distro is very much a one man show: "Patrick Volkerding".
see this [slackware.com] and you'll note that the rest of the team works on ports, the website, etc. but not the distro.

The above poster saw an opportuinity to correct the first poster, AND do it in a humorous way. It's funny because it catches us off guard (we know there is only one developer but out of habit we just say "developers" because most distro's aren't a one man show). Furthermore, the author of this post was in no way rude or disrespectful to any poster, Patrick Volkerding or Slashdot.

Anyway, I'm expecting my "offtopic" moderation any moment now.
Standing up for poster's rights and active opponent of bad moderation since 2002.

Times are changing...

[A_Non_Moose]

I used to say "Windows: the best hardware detection a Slackware user needs".

Now it is "RedHat: The best hardware detection a Slackware user needs".

But considering I just did an install of RedHat 7.3 on a p-pro 200 that took almost 4 hours (nfs, samba, apache and X) and a full Slackware 7 install (full) took 30 some-odd minutes.
(we'll see about 8.1 tomorrow...heh this makes me glad I did not d/l the alpha/beta 2 days ago).

.

Re:reinstall?

[JamesKPolk]

8.0 already supported reiserfs installs.

Re:excuse me but

[1%warren]

Yeah, I tried compiling everything with optimizations (LFS, twice). Made no difference to speed at all AFAICT without bencmarking it.