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Gates Tries to Explain .Net
AdamBa writes "Speaking to financial analysts and reporters, Bill Gates admitted that .NET hadn't caught on as quickly
as he had hoped. The headline ('Gates admits .NET a "misstep"') is a bit misleading; he doesn't think all of .NET was a misstep, just the My Services part (aka Hailstorm). He also said that labelling the current generation of enterprise products as .NET might have been 'premature.' Summary: Microsoft got too excited about locking in users via Hailstorm and botched the overall .NET message." There's also a Reuters report and a NYTimes story on the same subject, which includes the interesting line: "Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending." It isn't clear if Microsoft is talking about something happening beyond their control, or if they're boasting about ending it.
When he does they become standards.
Je t'aime Stéphanie
He could be speaking of the end of open source in the business sense. Look at all the open source companies on the market. The market, itself, is getting hammered. Open source/linux companies are getting hit EXTRA hard (VA was hit >17% just yesterday).
.NET is a nice technology, and has wonderful features (which it should, seeing that it looked on other technologies that broke out, like Java, and improved upon it). And, they are even trying to crack open that "you can only run it on IIS", by attaching it to apache. I'm surprised, myself, how it isn't catching on quickly, but I'm sure the market is mostly to blame.
Also,
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Wouldn't that truly be one of the travisties of humanity? Ending the Information Revolution by returning to where we were before it... Let us just hope and act in such a way that this does not come to pass.
According to the CNN article, Gates has gone with a report card scheme to give his company a "C" rating (for non-americans, grades can be A,B,C,D, or F (no E), and C is "average").
I guess it is nice to see a top Microsoft exec give a realistic review of the company. I wonder if the corperate scandles of late have anything to do with this unusual honesty? Perhaps Gates feared if he gave too rosey a picture, stock holders would be skeptical.
I think if we were really honest with ourselves, we would rate Linux at around the same score (perhaps C+). It is good to see our main competitor admit that we are on a level playing field
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
One dollar an hour per consultant? I guess I know how much a MCSE certificate is worth nowadays. Hell, cheaper than temps, though.
"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."
.NET right now.
uh-huh
I'm warezing
M$=0wn3r1z3d
I think the main problem with .NET is the marketing. .NET means somethind different to just about everyone.. To me as a developer it means the new development tools (ASP.NET, VB.NET, C#, Web Services). I definitely don't think that was a misstep- it is 100x better than its predecessor (COM). However, I think branding hailstorm and all the new version of the enterprise servers as .NET was a mistake. MS was trying to put everything under the .NET umbrella, but since some of those products/concepts have failed (ie hailstorm) it is now going to paint all things .NET in a negative light especially to people who aren't totally familiar with it. I hope they learn the lesson. I can remember visiting the web site several times that talks about what .NET is, and seeing it change about every month :)
"Wouldn't it be great if there were something exactly like the Internet, except that we owned it?"
-- Paraphrased from Clay Shirkey
I wonder how he grades the Xbox, with its horrific launch in Japan (still haven't sold through their initial 250,000 shipment), terrible software sales rate (less than 2 per console sold), and overall terrible showing at E3. He'd probably give it a 'C+', or maybe a 'C#'.
And Bill Gates knows it! He probably just had a business meeting with his emplo^H^H^H^H^Hcongressmen, and gave them a big fat bonus and new marching orders. When people this important make statements like this, either they're completely deluded about what's really going on in the world, or they're the ones who are trying very hard to bring such predictions about.
I think that part of the problem here is that .NET is this amorphous thing that MS has been pushing, without ever actually explaining. Sure we know what passport is, but that's one concrete part of...
.NET?
what?
What is
Why should we care about it?
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
MS believed that the way to avoid the problem of .COM's going under was to name their product .NET. I mean who's ever heard of a .net going under? Or the .net bubble burst? Clearly by naming their product .net, they would avoid all the problems the .com's had.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."
That will happen when they pry the webserver out of my dead hands.
Seriously, what is going to happen? MSN will supply all the content for the world? I doubt it.
http://www.rahga.com forever, and I suggest you do the same.
I think when developers talk about .NET, we're talking about the .NET framework. Which does have many wonderful features and improvements to the languages (C#, VB.NET is a big improvement over VB 6.0), the ease of making web services. It's much easier to manipulate XML than in previous versions. In the developer community (at least the ones that make money by programming on the Windows platform) it is slowly gaining popularity and many web sites have converted over to ASP.NET.
.NET, I think they are referring to the nebulous cloud of "web services" that Microsoft has alluded to, "Hailstorm", ".NET My Services", etc... Those still seem to be up in the air and not many people see the need for them.
When the general public thinks about
I don't think I'd pay Microsoft for a subscription to Word.NET when I can just keep using MS Word 2000 or OpenOffice 1.0, or AbiWord. I don't want to store my credit card info in my Passport (or liberty alliance or any other online identity service) account. Heck, I want the people in the checkout lane to ASK to see my ID when I hand them a credit card, I certainly don't want to hand over all the info that a thief needs to charge things to my credit card.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
Even if .NET is a step forward, many business probably face the same problems our company and customers are facing. With all the belt tightening going around, implementing a new platform and retraining a bunch of employees is just out of the question.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Well, I think we should see the writing on the wall for this one. No large monopolistic corporation can make good enough money on a free (as in Paul Revere) internet, so they are trying to divvy it up with proprietary systems and protocols to impose artificial monopolies.
Big companies may be able to undercut the competition at first, but the total cost of ownership will hurt you in the end.
- Gates also acknowledged that confusion still reigns about
.NET's very definition.
Good -- they understand one problem. People can perhaps point to the CLR and assoicated libraries, but- On Wednesday, he hammered home a new definition: "software to connect information, people, systems and services."
Unfortunately, this definition doesn't help at all. Pretty much all internet-based software does this.What web sites have converted? Could you give a few examples?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Wherever "open computing" survives will become the dominant cultural force of the next century.
The United States is in a position to maintain cultural hegemony over the whole world - if we don't kill the free exchange of culture in order to make a quick buck.
If we do, I predict, within a couple of generations, that other parts of the world will have outpaced us. Killing open computing will destroy our best way-out of the recent doldrums in popular movies and music.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
I am only worried about the goverment making Palladium the LAW. We need to tell the our goverment that.
1. You can not take away our freedoms.
2. we do not gives a rats ass about the Record companies.
3. We do give a rats ass about us.
The software compaines do not want DRM. Get talking to your reps.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Does anyone know whether Gates was wearing ruby slippers when he made the above statement?
I thought I was the only one who didn't get the whole .NET thing. Since that hype machine started up last year, I heard so many things from other programmers (who love MS products) talking about VB.NET and other .NET applications. I repeatedly asked them, what's the difference between the old environment and the new one, or simply what good is it all. Never have I recieved a clear answer of what it is, how it works, or what good it is. I'm not saying anything bad (or even good) about the whole .NET thing, I'm just saying that I've never heard a compelling argument from anyone who seems to fully understand it all. I think that right there proves that the idea didn't catch on.
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
Then why I am seeing everyone is converting to Java in the last 2 years? No one is using .NET or planning to use it around. My firm tested it, tried to call some legacy activex controls and unmanaged C++ code, they of course rejected it after a biiiiiiig performance hit. :)
.NET is new. Not tested, not trustable. Java existed 7 years ago. Why should I risk it? Why should I develop in .NET, just another VM based technology, but this time lock myself to Windows? I know that there will be other implementations of .NET, such as Mono on Linux, but those will not be cross platform compatible at all. Even they say it. One reason is that .NET's most important parts are not given to ECMA, such as WinForms and ADO.NET. Do not forget that. MS is still holding the patterns.
.NET my BUTT. I will never use it.
I know lots of developers who shifted to Java from MS platforms though.
etc. etc.
Dear Bill, do you have a
Open computing will be just fine. The genie will not go back in the bottle. Worried about Palladium? Now seriously, how long do you think it will be before there's a code work around for that? If I'm building a box am I going to include a Palladium component. My ass....
"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."
Please....
This is Microsoft wishful thinking. M$ is full of shit and always has been.
The system, the superior one, will always reign supreme. (except for maybe beta).
Worth every penny. Darwin is sweet and it's by far the best user interface available. Dont get me wrong, I like Windows and Linux. They just dont compare in ease of use.
Now if Apple could only figure out that they need to lower the prices to decent levels. Just like DELL you can make as much profit on volume as gouging your customer-base.
Microsoft, I mock in your general direction. With all that money, you can't find higher-calibre copywriting talent than that?! (Actually, having seen some of their press releases and other "marketing collateral," I now know that software isn't all Microsoft does badly.)
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
When the kids' last sitter graduated and went off to college, we got a beeper. They were too old to break in a new sitter, old enough to stay home alone when we have enough neighbors around that we are friends with, but a little lacking in the self-confidence to be home alone. The beeper supplied the necessary confidence. It turned out to be quite useful, sometimes for simple conveyance of binary information, as in beep me once for this, beep a second time if you really want me to call.
The beeper died, and for about the same price (up-front and monthly, both) we got a pay-by-the minute cellphone. Nobody knows the number but the kids, and occasionally it's just plain handy.
But it is so constrained as to not be an annoyance. Choose the technology you accept, and think about the uses you make of it.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
There are two main potential .NET targets: .NET .NET application.
.NET environment to their PCs... Microsoft is most likely going to have to force people-- which may not be popular.
.NET language, chances are you aren't very motivated to switch paradigms. .NET the fact is java has been here for quite a while and has a good following. I have yet to meet a serious java developer who has any interest in .NET .NET has to earn the industry's trust-- not an easy hill to climb these days. .NET is in convincing CEOs that they aren't further limiting their licensing choices and options in order to adopt something they just don't need-- at least not yet. The wait-and-see approach is a tried and true paradigm with respect to version 1.0 software from Microsoft.
1. Companies who have not yet started to deploy solutions using J2EE or Java and are trying to decide which to use: Java or
2. Companies who have a need for some software that is only as a
I won't address issues involving getting companies to deploy the
a1. If you already have a substantial investment in software written in anything but a
a1. Regardless of how you view
a1. Regardless of all the claims Microsoft makes about C#/.NET maturity, nobody in their right mind is going to bet the company on a new MS platform just because the pay-for-plundits say it's sexy.
a2. There is little imperative to adopt something for which there are no major none-Microsoft commercial offerings.
a2. Either way, I suspect difficult part of the sell for
Personally, I find it hard to get excited about something from a company whose major call to fame these days is the latest way it is reaming its customers.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
I think if we were really honest with ourselves, we would rate Linux at around the same score (perhaps C+). It is good to see our main competitor admit that we are on a level playing field :)
You're comparing an operating system to a company?
"And like that
Who Cares?
Just say ".NYET!".
All your data are belong to us.
.NET and DRM offer the ultimate customer lock-in.
Aside from a cutesy cultural reference,
It really annoys me how one can see a black lining to ANYTHING Microsoft does. It annoys me even more that historically, this attitude seems to be justified.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
"There's also a Reuters report and a NYTimes story on the same subject, which includes the interesting line: "Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending." It isn't clear if Microsoft is talking about something happening beyond their control, or if they're boasting about ending it."
It seems clear enough to me. Microsoft and the entertainment industry are in bed together. Both have something to gain from DRM.
The entertainment industry can stop music and movie pirating, take away our fair use rights and set the stage for a future market. That market being the sale of digital video and music which will be streamed directly to hardware. It is important to the entertainment industry that we are not allowed to record the digital data because once recorded we, as individuals, could illegally swap the files with others. Obviously, that would greatly reduce the incentive to pay again and again for the privilege of having the entertainment industry stream it to us. So say good-by to your fair use rights.
Microsoft has a lot to gain here also, on an entirely different front. They are fighting for their Corporate lives against a foe unlike any they have had to deal with before. Linux can not be made to go bankrupt, it cannot be sued into oblivion and it is steadily gaining popularity. How can Microsoft deal with this specter of doom? They must use any weapon available to them.
1. FUD. Yep, good ol' fear, uncertainty and doubt has always helped Microsoft in the past. It hasn't worked very well against Linux because their FUD has been too transparent. People just weren't buying it. They need a more complex strategy.
2. The Law. Make open source illegal. Hmmm... I'm sure they thought about that one... but how?
How about using FUD, a grain of truth to paint open source users as pirates, thieves and other assorted forms of lower life. Then join together with the entertainment industry to buy a senator like say.... SENATOR HOLLINGS FROM SC. And have him draft legislation that will ram DRM down our throats.
One all hardware is DRM enabled, only the entertainment industries bed partner will be allowed to receive digital data that will be streamed by this industry. Microsoft will do it's part to ensure that as few applications as possible will be allowed to run on Linux and have access to this new market. Definitely not open source. Thus they prevent competition. Typical strategy for Microsoft. Being afraid of competition they don't go head to head unless they can ensure themselves an advantage.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
A net, by defition, is full of holes...
--
http://www.aikiweb.com - AikiWeb Aikido Information
But it was a case of 'pre.net.ture ejaculation'
I just got a little excited 'cause you customers are so sexy.
Lemme help clean you up...
Cake or Death? Cake Please!
I think that MS may see this as an opportunity to garner control along with RIAA via things like the DMCA. MS has practically embraced the idea of more control over content and media. Legislation like the DMCA simply reinforces their further control of "innovations" as they call them. If things like proprietary encryption and the like come down the pike, MS will be the medium. The fact that this will further alienate the Open Source community is a huge bonus for them. >
Before .NET was released, no-one knew what it was. After its release, we still didn't know. Maybe I'm just stupid...But what kind of software connects information? This definition is all-encompassing, vague, and one of the more impressive examples of burble that I've seen. I guess MS just doesn't want us to *ever* know what they're doing.
What's in a Sig?
My understanding of
I believe that the vision is that computing devices would mostly allow you to dip into that data stream, and lose almost all of the autonomy that they now possess--while historically useful, it means that I can't have my fridge interoperate with the grocery store and compare my cupboards with what's on special today, and then alert me with a pop-up ad while I'm watching TV. All of these devices would be manufactured independantly, but MSFT would provide the means and the infrastructure to connect their data streams.
If said data was regulated by an open protocol, you could probably achieve much the same kind of thing; however, MSFT is a demonstrated monopoly, and as such can dictate a data-transfer protocol and make it a defacto standard. MSFT then gains the ability to charge on the basis of each transaction, or rent your data transmission method to you or to the device manufacturers.
Will it work? I dunno. I suppose anyone can install solar panels and resume their autonomy from the infrastructure. However, there's lots of good reasons to still be connected to the grid, even though it costs you more in the long run. Took a long time for this infrastructure to be implemented, though, and I'm not sure MSFT has the patience.
This is really all just speculation and conjecture--I would love to hear what others think of these assumptions. Am I right?
--
$tar -xvf
How about Get A Life? Oh wait, you had a Y in the middle. My mistake.
I think a big thing to take into account is that, until linux desktop is a viable alternative (read: an exact clone) of windows, and until it's easy to configure and install, and maintain for complete newbies, it's userbase isn't going to expand dramtically to include my parents and their friends.
The above is important for one reason. Bill Gates isn't a computer genius, he's a genius business man. He founded a company which he knew could penetrate everyone's everyday life, any business, and any commerical entity.
The 'innovation' MS, Apple, etc all, are introducing is a result of a companies which wants to make more money -- it just happens to be that they make software.
Profts drive innovation becuase one will innovate to find a market niche and sell that innovation as a product and become rich.
Until the linux desktop can interoperate completely with windows, act like windows and install like windows my parents and their friends will not be using it. When that happens you can be sure that the user base will expand. When the user base expands companies will create and sell innovation in an attempt to recieve profit.
And, Bill Gates doesn't give a flying fuck whether he's making money from Software, cars, toilet paper, or whatever! It's business. Business drives innovation, and there's really no business attacking the software linux software industry as hard as microsoft is attacking the win32 software industy.
First the clone, then the interoperability, then the useability, then the user base.
Sure, right now we're at step 1 - clone. But what a fucking clone it's becoming. I love linux, my desktop is beautiful, functional, and i've doing everything and more i ever did in windows. it'll come dude, but it needs to mature greatly.
dmarien
While open source is a subset of open computing, the two are in no way synonyms. The idea Microsoft is trying to convey is that business models are finally beginning to catch up to modern technology. Open computing could be taken to cover everything from internet access (where business models are already beginning to evolve from unlimited monthly access to capped transfer/bandwidth or pay-by-MB) to P2P file sharing systems (no explanation necessary). Personally, I still believe technologically open solutions are evolving faster than traditional business models, but certainly the industry is now actively aware of this open computing -- not "problem" -- but "opportunity" to make more money. (Or, after the latest string of quarterly losses, make ANY money). I've always found it interesting how gargantuan companies can lose millions (or billions) of dollars each year, yet the CEO's of said companies still manage to turn a profit of hundreds of millions of dollars and live in houses with six hot tubs and three pools (at least one indoor) and other such ludicrously excessive luxuries.
That's because the schools want to catch up with Lake Woebegone, MN.
On a more serious note, corporate America is at least partly to blame. The Fortune Nxx pretty much won't hire below 3.5. Colleges get at least some rating on jobe placement, so there's very real pressure for grade point inflation. The highest GPA in the house I lived in at school didn't have a lick of common sense, either. So the excessive emphasis on grades isn't good.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
I doubt that Gates claim of the end of "Open Computing" is an indication of an attack on Open Source specifically, that would be business as usual and not worth mentioning, more likely hes talking about some type of digital rights management or content control. Probably something catering to the large content providers and specifically aimed at pirates.
Sigs are awesome huh?
"From my parent's home in Wyoming, I stab at thee."
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
Two reasons to begin with:
1: They're manipulating their balance sheets. Under-reporting is as bad as over-reporting, neither is "transparent". (the new accounting buzzword) Besides, last I heard, and I admit I can't currently substantiate this, they were "revenue smoothing", under-reporting on very good quarters, and holding that around to over-report on lean quarters. The net effect was to always meet/beat projections, which helps the stock keep going up. And isn't this where it all started, with "opaque" accounting practices being used to inflate stock value.
2: Stock options counted as a business expense for tax purposes, but not counted against revenue. Though recently S&P and TIAA-CREF have called for this to change market-wide.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Pretty pathetic.
He doesn't get it either - I feel vindicated...
Cheers,
Jim in Tokyo
-- My Weblog.
I think in hindsight, .Net will be taught not in Computer Science courses but in Business Marketing courses as a failure of Public Relations.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
One of the people at the White House Office of Cybersecurity told me an interesting story once.
About 2 years ago he was at a briefing of high mucky-mucks where Gates was pitching all of the Good Things (TM) that .NET was going to be.
My friend was in one of the front rows, not twenty feet from Gates. He knew that if he raised his hand, Gates couldn't ignore him. So he waited for a few reporters to ask their usual lame questions and then made his move: "Bill, how in the hell are you going to secure all of this?"
He says that Gates's eyes glassed over and his knuckles, where he'd been gripping the edges of the podium, turned white. He spent the next several minutes rambling about QOS -- yes, QOS was going to secure .NET!
There is more to this story that I wish I could tell. Suffice it to say that the White House cybersecurity people (including Howard Schmidt, who was recently vilified here) are not as stupid as slashdotters think they are. These men will never reveal in public their true opinion of Micro$oft, but they have spoken to me in private about it. They're not as far away from our opinions as you think.
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
Well not everyone that has a computer is going to be into it as much as another guy, which is completely fine, of course. Gabe was just ragging on the uber-bored that think Linux is cause for a holy war. I for one, have sworn to choke the shit out of the next guy I meet that is convinced running a counter-strike server on his out-of-date redhat linux server makes him a hacker.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
Reporter 1: What is .NET?
.NET is. You have to see it for yourself.
.NET is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Gates: No one can tell you what
Reporter 2: But I have sources telling me that
I stole this Sig
Heading deeper off-topic. Sorry.
JBoss doesn't have nearly the performance you need for a solid, production container. JBoss for testing and development is WONDERFUL, but for production, you're best to go with either BEA's Weblogic, or IBM's WebSphere.
I've heard conflicting opinions about the relative performance and stability of JBoss compared with WebLogic and other commercial EJB containers. This is not meant as a flame, its an honest question. Can you point to any (even sorta) independent testing that compares these products head-to-head?
I'd be very interested as my organization is currently building a large EJB system and we are considering which container platform to adopt.
Sailing over the event horizon
Alien Spaceship OS in 'Independence Day': F
Cake or Death? Cake Please!
Shouldn't the company care about its customers' vision?
.NET, by announcing iCal and iSync last week at MacWorld. Those two programs allow users of Mac OS X Jaguar to connect their PDAs, cell phones and desktop PIM software to a single database and publish them on the Internet, connect with the calendars of others, and resolve conflicts between the two.
Some columnist recently pointed out that Apple achieved in one stroke everything MS is trying to achieve with
In other words, while Microsoft spent two years talking about Web services and technologies, Apple quietly went about actually building them into a program its users will want to use. MS has been announcing and releasing software for other people to build these Web applications, but Apple decided to lead by example instead.
No doubt the next release of Windows will include similar features, and of course they'll be more widely used than Apple's. But just think what might be happening right now if Microsoft had spent as much time creating Web applications for Windows XP as they did promoting them.
If a person could synchronize their PocketPC to their MSN account and Outlook at the same time, then reconcile with all their coworkers' calendars and documents, without having to do anything more than press a button, Microsoft wouldn't need subscriptions to sell the next version of Office or Windows. Instead they settled for getting halfway there so that they could sell more copies of Exchange Server and keep PocketPCs as expensive as humanly possible.
Yesterday, the day after this mandatory change was to take place, they sent another announcement. It said, in part: We encountered some issues while implementing this new process and as a result this update has been postponed.
Apparently, the company who wants to push .NET down the world's throat can't even make it work correctly for their own in-house projects on their own chosen time table. Good luck to the rest of the world.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
This may be more true than people realize. Even RedHat has implemented it with Up2Date that ties platform and user data to services.
.BOMB wave and you create a really big impediment. What if your accounting service provider goes under? What if your medical data service provider goes under? No easy answers here.
Most Open Source advocates point to a business model that is largly service based. Software for free but support for pay. Much of the traditional software business, especially retail, has been anonymous. Buy the software and run it. This shift will inevitably result in pushing "trust" issues and maintaining customer profiles.
So the next step (talk to Oracle, Sun, MS and Even RedHat) will be distributed services. All you get is services. The only problem is the whole "trust" issue. Who do you trust with your personal data? Your corporate information? Add to this the whole
So for now we remain at status quo. People and companies store their own data and slowly migrate to distributed applications. But the real question is, how do companies trying to exist on the old business model of "pay for software" model survive in a market of free software?
As a consumer who is happy with that status quo, I could care less. I say free beer for everyone. It's a dog-eat-dog corporate world and only the innovative will survive. Give me a reason to spend more money and put my personal or business data at risk.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
At a local consumers conference, Microsoft's Bill Gates, apparently growing frustrated over the questions surrounding .NET ("What is it?" "What does it do?" "Why do I need it?") finally said, "Look! You know Java? Same $%#@ thing!" and then stormed out.
.NET. They were looking to brand first and foremost, and it's worked to a certain extent. I know some guys who landed some venture capital who say that they think .NET is great even though they can't quite explain what it is.
.NET and that Microsoft can't answer because they weren't expecting to have to answer them. Consider all those commercials touting One Degree of Separation. Yes, we all know that we could recreate the same systems in any OS/platform, only with .NET you can do it in VB.NET. Perhaps that's a bonus, but only the VB programmers are going to recognize that, and I wonder how many IT departments (the people who'd give the green light on the switch) would be dominated by VB programmers? Or there's the bonus of being able to write ASP+ pages in several different languages. How many different IT departments are dominated by the web programmers? Furthermore, even if the different programmers made a fuss over .NET, I wonder how many IT departments would have said "That's nice, but with a little effort and good design we can incorporate the benefits using our current tech."
You know, to be honest, I think they kept it vague on purpose, so that they could sell a whole bunch of products and tout each one as an essential component of
To be honest, I think if we weren't in the middle of the a Linux revolution right now, nobody would be asking the questions that needed to get asked about
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Not a dumb question if you're unfamiliar with the technology. All of the improvements in .NET for developers are essentially manifested server-side, where ASP.NET intercepts calls for .aspx pages and processes them. The result is javascript that is supposed to be browser-independent, and allows developers to write a heck of a lot less code. So the short answer to your question is that users would see no difference, whereas developers see great improvements.
Of course, there are some browser-specific features, but the code for those is not written to the client if the browser doesn't support it. The best example is something called Smart Navigation, which reduces flicker on pages between trips to the server. If you're not running IE, or older IE, you get the flicker, but it doesn't prevent you from working with the page. HTH.
Please subscribe to see the more insightful version of th
".NET Signals an Industry Shift"
also referenced as the article about "Moore's Triple Crisis".
The author of the article (David Bau, who made the popular "Dave's Google Quicksearch Bar") writes about a three-way Moore's law crisis: crisis in systems, apps and development.
Systems: "the exponentially rising power of PC technology has started to overshoot the needs of the ordinary customer. This means people are starting to shop for cheaper computers instead of more powerful ones."
Development: "Moore's law crisis affects development costs just as dramatically as it affects hardware costs. As computing power gets cheaper and software becomes more ephemeral, it makes sense to save software development hours by wasting CPU cycles." The Garbage collectors and Intermediate Languages of
Applications: "Microsoft is facing the problem of saturation. The widely recognied issue here is that almost everybody who wants to do something with their computer software can already do it. Why would you buy a new version of Microsoft Word or Excel?" "Microsoft is facing competitors like America Online that are using a new model for software applications."
That's why Microsoft introduced his
--
ACid
Does this mean open source software or does this refer to the rampant warez/pirating scene that has existed for as long as I can remember? Or does it possibly mean both?
It does appear that MS is getting more aggressive in their licensing. Personally, I thought the XP licensing was pretty aggressive. But I guess I've accepted it because I was not really surprised when I saw a story describing their latest licensing escapades .
It basically describes how MS plans to end the "XP pro for corporations" pirating party by fixing/rewriting the algorithm used to generate product keys. They also plan to shaft the business customers already using valid keys by forcing this update into a service pack which will require all machines to get a new "valid" key.
-Ladd
Don't Panic.
I wouldnt give WinXP C+.. Id give Win2k C+ and WinXP C
[alk]
" In the developer community (at least the ones that make money by programming on the Windows platform) it is slowly gaining popularity"
:)
.NET framework.
:)
of course "developer community" != "Microsoft developer community", that's why I clarified and said
"at least the ones that make money by programming on the Windows platform". Such generalizations make ME wonder if you read the post before hitting "Reply"
Obviously, the ones that DON'T make money by programming on the Windows platform, but insted make money by programming Solaris and Linux applications don't give a rats ass about the
I make my money by doing Web Application development, so sometimes I'm using ASP and VB/VC++ and other times it's JSP and servlets depending upon the platform. For my personal web site I chose PHP hosted on Linux because it's cheaper to run a Linux web host than a Windows web host apparently.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
Jim Allchin, one of the company's top vice presidents, acknowledged the shift in focus in the industry from personal computers to plumbing, and bemoaned the difficulty of getting Microsoft's traditional consumers to care about its new vision.
"It's hard to get sexy about protocols," he said. "It really is about plumbing and concrete and protocols."
translation: we want to come into your house and rip out your plumbing, install our private plumbing network, and you will pay us for the privelege. don't worry, we'll never shut the water off on you, because we're trustworthy--can't you damn fools see that?
add component drag.NET?
Duh, nuh, nuh, nuh.
Duh, nuh, nuh, nuuuuuuuuuuuuh.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
There are successes in that business, but Microsoft isn't one of them. PeopleSoft, Oracle, SAP, EDS, and Automatic Data Processing are the successful players. They're big, vertically integrated companies that build and service what they sell. They're not value-added resellers, and they don't usually work through value-added resellers.
Microsoft's model, that you download something, pay for it forever, and don't bother them much, isn't how it's done. The big service providers provide real service; they are in the business of outsourcing corporate support functions, not pushing software.
"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending." It isn't clear if Microsoft is talking about something happening beyond their control, or if they're boasting about ending it.
Nothing new. Bill Redux: I remember hearing of an episode from back when GEM and Windows were still battling it out - at a conference panel where Bill and Gary Kildall were members, and Gary was going on about OSs, and how there'd be plenty of ways to run your computer. Bill grabbed a microphone and interrupted, with a clarification to the effect that "No, there will be one way to operate your computers. One. (uncomforatble silence) You may continue."
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
"The result is javascript that is supposed to be browser-independent, and allows developers to write a heck of a lot less code."
.NET language including jscript (javascript), VB.NET, C++ or C#.
If what you mean by "the result is javascript" is that javascript runs on the client, then that's incorrect. ASP.NET returns html. On the server side the logic can be written in any
I didn't expect this.
Milalwi
Yikes, maybe one should do some research before telling someone they are incorrect with 100% certainty. Actually I am correct, ASP.NET uses and generates client-side javascript. For example, take a look in your C:\WINNT\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.0.3705\ASP.NET ClientFiles (depending on what version you have). Those .js files are included as needed in the returned html.
.aspx file. What's this?!
Additionally, let's do a view source on an
function __doPostBack(eventTarget, eventArgument) {
var theform = document.ContactSearchForm;
theform.__EVENTTARGET.value = eventTarget;
theform.__EVENTARGUMENT.value = eventArgument;
theform.submit();
}
You are correct about the variety of server-side options, however. As I pointed out in my original post, the fact that most of the code is server-side is makes the development so easy.
Please subscribe to see the more insightful version of th
I finally found out what .NET is. It's a label to attach to the winner of Bill's: "Lets throw everything up against the side of the barn and we will see what sticks...." Whatever sticks is going to get the grand prize of --- "We bestow upon thee the label .NET" --- "See world here is what we were talking about..."
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
And the Systems of Software name is LongHorn.
Perhaps the developers could dub one of the shared libraries .BUTTERFLY. Then, at least, the users of .NET would have something to chase.
(There go my karma points...)
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending. The company is trying to influence an industry consortium called the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance, which has been trying to create a new standard that will build a cryptographic key system into future personal computers. The idea has been challenged in the past by both civil liberties and consumer groups, who argue that it could potentially undercut privacy and intellectual property fair-use rights. And also very clear that IP advocates see the digital revolution as a way to completely eliminate fair use rights....and Microsoft is leading the charge. This is a well planned, deliberate crusade by corporate America to take away individual's rights. Just look at how they have Congress and the courts already in their pockets! The DMCA is one of the most blatent anti-consumer, pro-corporate, special interest laws in history! And now the greedy bastards think even the DMCA isn't enough..they want to build additional 'protections' into the hardware and the OS software...and make software that doesn't have these 'pet things' illegal. My hope is that the massive corporate greed that deregulation has spawned will finally let the American public see how the wool has been pulled over their eyes. Already Congress is running scared..they know that they allowed corporate greed to run unchecked and now it's biting them in the ass. Maybe they'll finally 'get it' with regards to the fact that the PEOPLE send their asses to Congress..not the RIAA and MPAA!
.... you mean its just like M-life?
The one thing that the JVM doesn't do as well as .NET is supporting languages other than Java. This has been its Achilles' heel. Although you can sort of coerce other languages to run on the JVM, the match isn't very nice. The CIL and CLR provide a much more friendly interface to languages other than C# and, thanks to our friends at the Mono project, .NET will soon have the platform interoperability that once only Java could boast of. If Sun wants to remain relevant in the portable VM space, they need to embrace languages other than Java.
That is all.
Alien Spaceship OS in 'Independence Day': F
Interoperability of Alien Spaceship OS in 'Independence Day' with Mac OS: A+
. . . PHP is also an excellent alternative to ASP.
.NET?
I read somewhere that PHP is the fastest growing scripting language on the web, and has already surpassed the popularity of the more mature ASP.
Exellent development tools available for Java make it a good choice for some bigger web projects, but the downside is that the cost of setting up a server. Not too many people offer virtual hosting for java. You pretty much need your own server with root access to set things up.
For smaller projects you can get a domain name, virtual host with PHP, and mySQL for about $20 US per month.
Of course you can design and test both technologies on your free OS, with your free web server, with your free database.
So why is anybody switching to
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I have a better definition for .NET that Microsoft might seriously consider:
" It's like Java, but pretty. "
Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
is now locked in competition
Ever notice how poor journalists always over-dramatize verbs into phrases?
"Microsoft is now trapped in an epic struggle with dozens of aggressive, desperate companies, all of which seek the same distant goal..."
Bleh. How about something simple like:
"Microsoft is now competing with small start-up companies..."
Save the hyperbole.
No, sir, YOU most of all have a duty to do your best to ensure that YOUR representative understands how you, the represented, wishes him to vote. He is YOUR representative. People from your state are the ones with the problem of a rogue, corrupt politician, and I sure hope you SC people do something about him before he takes down all of us.
Unfortunately, us in other states can only beg and cajole you to vote him out, or convince him of changing his ways. Instead, I have to wait for your deranged idiot to make his move, submit his stupid legislation, then spend my time trying to convince my representatives to vote against his crap. It would be much better if you SC people would just take responsibility for your problem.
What?! you mean I can't be both, like Nobel Prize Winner John Nash?
Nah, because higher education gets dumbed down to match what is coming out of the high schools. Your younger brother will do just fine in college. Won't actually LEARN as much as you did, but who cares about that?
The whole point of modern education these days seems to be keeping people out of the labor force for as many years as possible and brainwashing them with political correctness.
Democrat delenda est
.."We're .net, and everyone else is .fish"
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Well, what do you know... By the time I read it, the headline is "Gates admits 'misstep' in parts of .NET launch".
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Lots of people hither and you are annoying at Apple charging for .Mac. But what I see coming from .Mac and the reason I signed up even though I didn't really use iTools before is that Apple has created a number of compelling real-world web services that people want to, and will be able to, use.
One service I'm looking forward to you didn't even mention is the web backup, which is sort of an extension of iSync in my mind (or perhaps it's really part of iSynch?).
On top of the interesting services they have announced they'll be developing more services in the future, from the same minds that designed iPhoto and iTunes.
And all this at a flat fee - note that while MS wants you to pay every time you open Word, Apple is content to let you pay a minimal yearly fee and do what you like, charging extra only for real resources like more disc space.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
In any case, my company is listening (and the linux processes that I write in Java/C++ will supply the data to these C# front ends).
there is no thing
what else could you want?
No to suck too much wind out of your sails, but why?
Java seems to have done pretty well as is, and I really haven't seen anyone saying "You know, Java would be perfect if only I could compile my old SNOBOL code in it.".
Personally I think there are very few useful libraries you could write that would work well across multiple languages - in almost any given case you'd be better off obtaining or writing a library that present a language-friendly API that takes advantage of a languages features, than a library that CAN be used by any language but really only makes sense in a few.
I was convinced of this fact when I read a white paper some time ago detailing how Eiffel# would work, and how it would call into standard CLR libraries... I wish I could find that paper but I've nad no luck for months.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Microsoft is talking about the DMCA and the things worse than it which are to come.
Let's face it: this injustice is going to continue as long as the generation of people who were hippies in the 1960's are in power.
This generation is filled with people who bucked centuries of moderately well-functioning social customs for a narrow-minded, self-centred set of principles that were logically broken, namely, that everyone could be a freeloader, and that taking mind-altering drugs and raising children only affect the individuals who make those decisions.
We're not going to change these people's minds about these technology issues, because that would involve drastically changing the thought process that has been engrained in their minds since their childhood.