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Gates Tries to Explain .Net
AdamBa writes "Speaking to financial analysts and reporters, Bill Gates admitted that .NET hadn't caught on as quickly
as he had hoped. The headline ('Gates admits .NET a "misstep"') is a bit misleading; he doesn't think all of .NET was a misstep, just the My Services part (aka Hailstorm). He also said that labelling the current generation of enterprise products as .NET might have been 'premature.' Summary: Microsoft got too excited about locking in users via Hailstorm and botched the overall .NET message." There's also a Reuters report and a NYTimes story on the same subject, which includes the interesting line: "Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending." It isn't clear if Microsoft is talking about something happening beyond their control, or if they're boasting about ending it.
When he does they become standards.
Je t'aime Stéphanie
He could be speaking of the end of open source in the business sense. Look at all the open source companies on the market. The market, itself, is getting hammered. Open source/linux companies are getting hit EXTRA hard (VA was hit >17% just yesterday).
.NET is a nice technology, and has wonderful features (which it should, seeing that it looked on other technologies that broke out, like Java, and improved upon it). And, they are even trying to crack open that "you can only run it on IIS", by attaching it to apache. I'm surprised, myself, how it isn't catching on quickly, but I'm sure the market is mostly to blame.
Also,
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Wouldn't that truly be one of the travisties of humanity? Ending the Information Revolution by returning to where we were before it... Let us just hope and act in such a way that this does not come to pass.
According to the CNN article, Gates has gone with a report card scheme to give his company a "C" rating (for non-americans, grades can be A,B,C,D, or F (no E), and C is "average").
I guess it is nice to see a top Microsoft exec give a realistic review of the company. I wonder if the corperate scandles of late have anything to do with this unusual honesty? Perhaps Gates feared if he gave too rosey a picture, stock holders would be skeptical.
I think if we were really honest with ourselves, we would rate Linux at around the same score (perhaps C+). It is good to see our main competitor admit that we are on a level playing field
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
One dollar an hour per consultant? I guess I know how much a MCSE certificate is worth nowadays. Hell, cheaper than temps, though.
"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."
.NET right now.
uh-huh
I'm warezing
M$=0wn3r1z3d
Look at what's said about Hailstorm here: http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/07/22/ 020722hnhailms.xml
Microsoft embeds HailStorm into .Net
I think the main problem with .NET is the marketing. .NET means somethind different to just about everyone.. To me as a developer it means the new development tools (ASP.NET, VB.NET, C#, Web Services). I definitely don't think that was a misstep- it is 100x better than its predecessor (COM). However, I think branding hailstorm and all the new version of the enterprise servers as .NET was a mistake. MS was trying to put everything under the .NET umbrella, but since some of those products/concepts have failed (ie hailstorm) it is now going to paint all things .NET in a negative light especially to people who aren't totally familiar with it. I hope they learn the lesson. I can remember visiting the web site several times that talks about what .NET is, and seeing it change about every month :)
"Wouldn't it be great if there were something exactly like the Internet, except that we owned it?"
-- Paraphrased from Clay Shirkey
I wonder how he grades the Xbox, with its horrific launch in Japan (still haven't sold through their initial 250,000 shipment), terrible software sales rate (less than 2 per console sold), and overall terrible showing at E3. He'd probably give it a 'C+', or maybe a 'C#'.
And Bill Gates knows it! He probably just had a business meeting with his emplo^H^H^H^H^Hcongressmen, and gave them a big fat bonus and new marching orders. When people this important make statements like this, either they're completely deluded about what's really going on in the world, or they're the ones who are trying very hard to bring such predictions about.
I think that part of the problem here is that .NET is this amorphous thing that MS has been pushing, without ever actually explaining. Sure we know what passport is, but that's one concrete part of...
.NET?
what?
What is
Why should we care about it?
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
MS believed that the way to avoid the problem of .COM's going under was to name their product .NET. I mean who's ever heard of a .net going under? Or the .net bubble burst? Clearly by naming their product .net, they would avoid all the problems the .com's had.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."
That will happen when they pry the webserver out of my dead hands.
Seriously, what is going to happen? MSN will supply all the content for the world? I doubt it.
http://www.rahga.com forever, and I suggest you do the same.
I think when developers talk about .NET, we're talking about the .NET framework. Which does have many wonderful features and improvements to the languages (C#, VB.NET is a big improvement over VB 6.0), the ease of making web services. It's much easier to manipulate XML than in previous versions. In the developer community (at least the ones that make money by programming on the Windows platform) it is slowly gaining popularity and many web sites have converted over to ASP.NET.
.NET, I think they are referring to the nebulous cloud of "web services" that Microsoft has alluded to, "Hailstorm", ".NET My Services", etc... Those still seem to be up in the air and not many people see the need for them.
When the general public thinks about
I don't think I'd pay Microsoft for a subscription to Word.NET when I can just keep using MS Word 2000 or OpenOffice 1.0, or AbiWord. I don't want to store my credit card info in my Passport (or liberty alliance or any other online identity service) account. Heck, I want the people in the checkout lane to ASK to see my ID when I hand them a credit card, I certainly don't want to hand over all the info that a thief needs to charge things to my credit card.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
Keyword: Tries
"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."
Haven't they been saying this for oh um... 5 years now?
Is he trying to make it look like MS doesn't want control over data management, just buddy up with the competition?
Why would he even admit this?
Even if .NET is a step forward, many business probably face the same problems our company and customers are facing. With all the belt tightening going around, implementing a new platform and retraining a bunch of employees is just out of the question.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Well, I think we should see the writing on the wall for this one. No large monopolistic corporation can make good enough money on a free (as in Paul Revere) internet, so they are trying to divvy it up with proprietary systems and protocols to impose artificial monopolies.
Big companies may be able to undercut the competition at first, but the total cost of ownership will hurt you in the end.
- Gates also acknowledged that confusion still reigns about
.NET's very definition.
Good -- they understand one problem. People can perhaps point to the CLR and assoicated libraries, but- On Wednesday, he hammered home a new definition: "software to connect information, people, systems and services."
Unfortunately, this definition doesn't help at all. Pretty much all internet-based software does this.What web sites have converted? Could you give a few examples?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Wherever "open computing" survives will become the dominant cultural force of the next century.
The United States is in a position to maintain cultural hegemony over the whole world - if we don't kill the free exchange of culture in order to make a quick buck.
If we do, I predict, within a couple of generations, that other parts of the world will have outpaced us. Killing open computing will destroy our best way-out of the recent doldrums in popular movies and music.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
From The Register: .NET products was premature," Gates said."[Since then] We've rolled out additions to those server products and now we have total support for XML and SOAP based capabilities."
"Perhaps labeling those
That was nice, wasn't it? ;-p
-EvilMagnus
I am only worried about the goverment making Palladium the LAW. We need to tell the our goverment that.
1. You can not take away our freedoms.
2. we do not gives a rats ass about the Record companies.
3. We do give a rats ass about us.
The software compaines do not want DRM. Get talking to your reps.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Does anyone know whether Gates was wearing ruby slippers when he made the above statement?
They released .Net?
"All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
Surely the " free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry" is exactly what the internet is supposed to be ?
It's quite clear that Gate's uberplan is to lock people into
If he's talking about Open Source, he's clearly in FUD mode. Perhaps running scared from the latest UK Government proposals to look at Open Source software in a more postive light.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. --Albert Einstein
I think it is interesting that Microsoft and various corporations are letting people know that their freedoms are gone. It almost seems that they think they can tell us "Well we tried out that freedom stuff and it just wasnt profitable so here is what you get now" and we're all supposed to just say thanks corporate america life with free expression was overated. The world is in a time of transition. What happens now will shape the course of freedom in the future. If we dont stand up now who knows whats next John Ashcroft warning that the area of "open speech" is over?
Is if someone at Microsoft can explain what the mythological construct of .NET is supposed to be. To me, .NET seems to be a generation of software, a plan to end all plans, a poorly woven mesh to weave together MS's myriad products, OR a documentation nightmare. Are they perhaps putting all of their eggs in the .NET basket?
...Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
Churchill
I thought I was the only one who didn't get the whole .NET thing. Since that hype machine started up last year, I heard so many things from other programmers (who love MS products) talking about VB.NET and other .NET applications. I repeatedly asked them, what's the difference between the old environment and the new one, or simply what good is it all. Never have I recieved a clear answer of what it is, how it works, or what good it is. I'm not saying anything bad (or even good) about the whole .NET thing, I'm just saying that I've never heard a compelling argument from anyone who seems to fully understand it all. I think that right there proves that the idea didn't catch on.
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
Then why I am seeing everyone is converting to Java in the last 2 years? No one is using .NET or planning to use it around. My firm tested it, tried to call some legacy activex controls and unmanaged C++ code, they of course rejected it after a biiiiiiig performance hit. :)
.NET is new. Not tested, not trustable. Java existed 7 years ago. Why should I risk it? Why should I develop in .NET, just another VM based technology, but this time lock myself to Windows? I know that there will be other implementations of .NET, such as Mono on Linux, but those will not be cross platform compatible at all. Even they say it. One reason is that .NET's most important parts are not given to ECMA, such as WinForms and ADO.NET. Do not forget that. MS is still holding the patterns.
.NET my BUTT. I will never use it.
I know lots of developers who shifted to Java from MS platforms though.
etc. etc.
Dear Bill, do you have a
You have totally missed the point about what .NET is.
.NET is NOT .NET Passport.
.NET Passport is the latest version of Passport, and the lastest versions are nowadays labeled " .NET" or ".NET ".
.NET itself is a rich execution environment, a framework that I love to use, maybe even a philosophy. .NET at the moment is, that too many people believed crap like ".NET is only web services" or ".NET is jave for dictators". .NET really is. Watch out for rich clients, watch out for coding at ease.
The problem with
As time goes by, people might start understanding what
Open computing will be just fine. The genie will not go back in the bottle. Worried about Palladium? Now seriously, how long do you think it will be before there's a code work around for that? If I'm building a box am I going to include a Palladium component. My ass....
"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending."
Please....
This is Microsoft wishful thinking. M$ is full of shit and always has been.
The system, the superior one, will always reign supreme. (except for maybe beta).
Worth every penny. Darwin is sweet and it's by far the best user interface available. Dont get me wrong, I like Windows and Linux. They just dont compare in ease of use.
Now if Apple could only figure out that they need to lower the prices to decent levels. Just like DELL you can make as much profit on volume as gouging your customer-base.
Microsoft, I mock in your general direction. With all that money, you can't find higher-calibre copywriting talent than that?! (Actually, having seen some of their press releases and other "marketing collateral," I now know that software isn't all Microsoft does badly.)
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
Do, or do not. There is no 'try'.
From the article (emphasis added): .NET's very definition. On Wednesday, he hammered home a new definition: "software to connect information, people, systems and services."
Gates also acknowledged that confusion still reigns about
What is that noise? That would be the sarcasm meter exploding due to an overload.
"We're the dot in .NET"
NASDAQ:MSFT is currently 43.86, new lows if anyone thinks a company with that much cash and captive customers is undervalued and has a future.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I have an acquaintance that works for Microsoft. He said one day he left the bathroom and forgot to zip up his fly.
.NET initiative. They are now more open and accessible."
When a co-worker pointed this out, he replied "My pants are part of the
When the kids' last sitter graduated and went off to college, we got a beeper. They were too old to break in a new sitter, old enough to stay home alone when we have enough neighbors around that we are friends with, but a little lacking in the self-confidence to be home alone. The beeper supplied the necessary confidence. It turned out to be quite useful, sometimes for simple conveyance of binary information, as in beep me once for this, beep a second time if you really want me to call.
The beeper died, and for about the same price (up-front and monthly, both) we got a pay-by-the minute cellphone. Nobody knows the number but the kids, and occasionally it's just plain handy.
But it is so constrained as to not be an annoyance. Choose the technology you accept, and think about the uses you make of it.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
There are two main potential .NET targets: .NET .NET application.
.NET environment to their PCs... Microsoft is most likely going to have to force people-- which may not be popular.
.NET language, chances are you aren't very motivated to switch paradigms. .NET the fact is java has been here for quite a while and has a good following. I have yet to meet a serious java developer who has any interest in .NET .NET has to earn the industry's trust-- not an easy hill to climb these days. .NET is in convincing CEOs that they aren't further limiting their licensing choices and options in order to adopt something they just don't need-- at least not yet. The wait-and-see approach is a tried and true paradigm with respect to version 1.0 software from Microsoft.
1. Companies who have not yet started to deploy solutions using J2EE or Java and are trying to decide which to use: Java or
2. Companies who have a need for some software that is only as a
I won't address issues involving getting companies to deploy the
a1. If you already have a substantial investment in software written in anything but a
a1. Regardless of how you view
a1. Regardless of all the claims Microsoft makes about C#/.NET maturity, nobody in their right mind is going to bet the company on a new MS platform just because the pay-for-plundits say it's sexy.
a2. There is little imperative to adopt something for which there are no major none-Microsoft commercial offerings.
a2. Either way, I suspect difficult part of the sell for
Personally, I find it hard to get excited about something from a company whose major call to fame these days is the latest way it is reaming its customers.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
I think if we were really honest with ourselves, we would rate Linux at around the same score (perhaps C+). It is good to see our main competitor admit that we are on a level playing field :)
You're comparing an operating system to a company?
"And like that
Who Cares?
Greenwich?
Yukon?
Longhorn?
If you make an acronym out of MS' code names and order them based on release dat you get GYL
or
Gates
You
Lost
Coincidence....?
Linux: B
Win 95: D
Win 98: D
Win 2000: C
Win ME: D+
Win XP: C+
OS/2 Warp: B-
Unix: B+
DOS: C-
MAC OS X: A-
Any others? Any changes you think are needed? I am willing to accept any modifications. (This isn't flamebait, just encouraging conversation on report cards.)
~ kjrose
Just say ".NYET!".
All your data are belong to us.
.NET and DRM offer the ultimate customer lock-in.
Aside from a cutesy cultural reference,
It really annoys me how one can see a black lining to ANYTHING Microsoft does. It annoys me even more that historically, this attitude seems to be justified.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
"There's also a Reuters report and a NYTimes story on the same subject, which includes the interesting line: "Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending." It isn't clear if Microsoft is talking about something happening beyond their control, or if they're boasting about ending it."
It seems clear enough to me. Microsoft and the entertainment industry are in bed together. Both have something to gain from DRM.
The entertainment industry can stop music and movie pirating, take away our fair use rights and set the stage for a future market. That market being the sale of digital video and music which will be streamed directly to hardware. It is important to the entertainment industry that we are not allowed to record the digital data because once recorded we, as individuals, could illegally swap the files with others. Obviously, that would greatly reduce the incentive to pay again and again for the privilege of having the entertainment industry stream it to us. So say good-by to your fair use rights.
Microsoft has a lot to gain here also, on an entirely different front. They are fighting for their Corporate lives against a foe unlike any they have had to deal with before. Linux can not be made to go bankrupt, it cannot be sued into oblivion and it is steadily gaining popularity. How can Microsoft deal with this specter of doom? They must use any weapon available to them.
1. FUD. Yep, good ol' fear, uncertainty and doubt has always helped Microsoft in the past. It hasn't worked very well against Linux because their FUD has been too transparent. People just weren't buying it. They need a more complex strategy.
2. The Law. Make open source illegal. Hmmm... I'm sure they thought about that one... but how?
How about using FUD, a grain of truth to paint open source users as pirates, thieves and other assorted forms of lower life. Then join together with the entertainment industry to buy a senator like say.... SENATOR HOLLINGS FROM SC. And have him draft legislation that will ram DRM down our throats.
One all hardware is DRM enabled, only the entertainment industries bed partner will be allowed to receive digital data that will be streamed by this industry. Microsoft will do it's part to ensure that as few applications as possible will be allowed to run on Linux and have access to this new market. Definitely not open source. Thus they prevent competition. Typical strategy for Microsoft. Being afraid of competition they don't go head to head unless they can ensure themselves an advantage.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
A net, by defition, is full of holes...
--
http://www.aikiweb.com - AikiWeb Aikido Information
...I would be forced to assume that the second of your choices is correct since we are talking about a man who has been "trying very hard to bring such predictions about" for over a decade.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
But it was a case of 'pre.net.ture ejaculation'
I just got a little excited 'cause you customers are so sexy.
Lemme help clean you up...
Cake or Death? Cake Please!
When he talks of the end of "open computing" he's likely referring to new hardware which will control how you use software and media. It's still unclear how they will get hardware manufacturers to adopt these technologies, unless of course there's legislation mandating it.
I think that MS may see this as an opportunity to garner control along with RIAA via things like the DMCA. MS has practically embraced the idea of more control over content and media. Legislation like the DMCA simply reinforces their further control of "innovations" as they call them. If things like proprietary encryption and the like come down the pike, MS will be the medium. The fact that this will further alienate the Open Source community is a huge bonus for them. >
Windows CE on palmtops? PalmOS is still on top. .NET...
Xbox? Failed completly.
And now
Maybe something is changing in this world? IMHO 20 years is enough.
Before .NET was released, no-one knew what it was. After its release, we still didn't know. Maybe I'm just stupid...But what kind of software connects information? This definition is all-encompassing, vague, and one of the more impressive examples of burble that I've seen. I guess MS just doesn't want us to *ever* know what they're doing.
What's in a Sig?
My understanding of
I believe that the vision is that computing devices would mostly allow you to dip into that data stream, and lose almost all of the autonomy that they now possess--while historically useful, it means that I can't have my fridge interoperate with the grocery store and compare my cupboards with what's on special today, and then alert me with a pop-up ad while I'm watching TV. All of these devices would be manufactured independantly, but MSFT would provide the means and the infrastructure to connect their data streams.
If said data was regulated by an open protocol, you could probably achieve much the same kind of thing; however, MSFT is a demonstrated monopoly, and as such can dictate a data-transfer protocol and make it a defacto standard. MSFT then gains the ability to charge on the basis of each transaction, or rent your data transmission method to you or to the device manufacturers.
Will it work? I dunno. I suppose anyone can install solar panels and resume their autonomy from the infrastructure. However, there's lots of good reasons to still be connected to the grid, even though it costs you more in the long run. Took a long time for this infrastructure to be implemented, though, and I'm not sure MSFT has the patience.
This is really all just speculation and conjecture--I would love to hear what others think of these assumptions. Am I right?
--
$tar -xvf
I think a big thing to take into account is that, until linux desktop is a viable alternative (read: an exact clone) of windows, and until it's easy to configure and install, and maintain for complete newbies, it's userbase isn't going to expand dramtically to include my parents and their friends.
The above is important for one reason. Bill Gates isn't a computer genius, he's a genius business man. He founded a company which he knew could penetrate everyone's everyday life, any business, and any commerical entity.
The 'innovation' MS, Apple, etc all, are introducing is a result of a companies which wants to make more money -- it just happens to be that they make software.
Profts drive innovation becuase one will innovate to find a market niche and sell that innovation as a product and become rich.
Until the linux desktop can interoperate completely with windows, act like windows and install like windows my parents and their friends will not be using it. When that happens you can be sure that the user base will expand. When the user base expands companies will create and sell innovation in an attempt to recieve profit.
And, Bill Gates doesn't give a flying fuck whether he's making money from Software, cars, toilet paper, or whatever! It's business. Business drives innovation, and there's really no business attacking the software linux software industry as hard as microsoft is attacking the win32 software industy.
First the clone, then the interoperability, then the useability, then the user base.
Sure, right now we're at step 1 - clone. But what a fucking clone it's becoming. I love linux, my desktop is beautiful, functional, and i've doing everything and more i ever did in windows. it'll come dude, but it needs to mature greatly.
dmarien
While open source is a subset of open computing, the two are in no way synonyms. The idea Microsoft is trying to convey is that business models are finally beginning to catch up to modern technology. Open computing could be taken to cover everything from internet access (where business models are already beginning to evolve from unlimited monthly access to capped transfer/bandwidth or pay-by-MB) to P2P file sharing systems (no explanation necessary). Personally, I still believe technologically open solutions are evolving faster than traditional business models, but certainly the industry is now actively aware of this open computing -- not "problem" -- but "opportunity" to make more money. (Or, after the latest string of quarterly losses, make ANY money). I've always found it interesting how gargantuan companies can lose millions (or billions) of dollars each year, yet the CEO's of said companies still manage to turn a profit of hundreds of millions of dollars and live in houses with six hot tubs and three pools (at least one indoor) and other such ludicrously excessive luxuries.
That's because the schools want to catch up with Lake Woebegone, MN.
On a more serious note, corporate America is at least partly to blame. The Fortune Nxx pretty much won't hire below 3.5. Colleges get at least some rating on jobe placement, so there's very real pressure for grade point inflation. The highest GPA in the house I lived in at school didn't have a lick of common sense, either. So the excessive emphasis on grades isn't good.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
I doubt that Gates claim of the end of "Open Computing" is an indication of an attack on Open Source specifically, that would be business as usual and not worth mentioning, more likely hes talking about some type of digital rights management or content control. Probably something catering to the large content providers and specifically aimed at pirates.
Sigs are awesome huh?
Dude! Don't hold back. You hold that shit in and it will eat at ya! >
"From my parent's home in Wyoming, I stab at thee."
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
Yes, Java! Because: - Java is cross platform compatible. .NET may never be cross platform compatible %100 including Mono project etc., since MS is holding patents of very important parts of .NET, such as WinForms, ADO.NET. They did not submitted all the parts of .NET to ECMA. They kept the most important parts.
:) Think about it. Now it is matured, reliable. There are millions of Java programmers (still there will be %50 more need for in 2003 according to Gartner research), thousands of open/close, ready to use, matured programs, frameworks, libraries written in Java. .NET is a newbee, need at least 3 years to become reliable. During this time, Java will be much better.
.NET? :) There are many programs written in Java, basically working on many different platforms already.
.NET and Java are not very different. Both are VM based. .NET might be faster than Java on Windows, especially in client applications, but, it is not very important, since CPUs are fast enough, and Java is getting better optimized with every release. In short, Java is fast enough.
.NET? Of course they won't.
- Java was there 7 years ago!
- Java is working already. Its doing everything I need. Why should I change to
- Performances of
- All the big companies other than MS, such as Sun, Oracle, Sybase, IBM, BEA, HP, Fujitsu, Nokia, Sony/Ericcson, JBoss, etc. already rolled their dice and chosen Java. They have many products based on Java. Why should they burn their investments and move to MS's
- Java is not from the most unethical company in the history of mankind. Some people believe in ethics and don't use it. Such as me.
Dear Bill, do you have a
Two reasons to begin with:
1: They're manipulating their balance sheets. Under-reporting is as bad as over-reporting, neither is "transparent". (the new accounting buzzword) Besides, last I heard, and I admit I can't currently substantiate this, they were "revenue smoothing", under-reporting on very good quarters, and holding that around to over-report on lean quarters. The net effect was to always meet/beat projections, which helps the stock keep going up. And isn't this where it all started, with "opaque" accounting practices being used to inflate stock value.
2: Stock options counted as a business expense for tax purposes, but not counted against revenue. Though recently S&P and TIAA-CREF have called for this to change market-wide.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Pretty pathetic.
The NY TImes article has the following line:
Microsoft is now locked in competition with small start-up companies that originally pioneered the Web services field
Usually the mainstream press makes it seem as though Microsoft invented web services (and the internet, for that matter.) Its refreshing to see a little more accuracy in reporting once in a while.
Cake or Death? Cake Please!
Very nice wording, pick a double entendre that connotes both something great(Open Source) and evil(unsafe nonsecure software).
Now we just have to worry about John and Mary Sixpack buying into all this crap.
It's a beautiful world we live in.-jc
Will they sue freshmeat.net for violation of their trademark?
...he insn't able to come with a good answer...
... ...
Bill Gates could say this:
".NET is...
well, there's a new language called C#,
there's a platform, an intermediate language, a runtime,
well, it's easier to explain:
you know about Java?
"
--
ACid
.NET may be all you say, but it INCLUDES Passport in its portfolio now. And if Passport does not work properly people will be tempted to judge that failure as partially .NET's fault.
.NET Passport will not allow me to sign into my Hotmail account from a WinXP computer. NT4 and 9x machines have no difficulty, however.
I can tell you
Might want to think about walking away from the computer, going outside, getting the paper, and looking through the classifieds.
They got these things called jobs.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
like so 1990s! Like duh!
====
Crudely Drawn Games
I went to three days worth of the training, and I will say the instructor was quite good. I will also say that as primarily a web application builder, I wasn't impressed with Interdev or the new names they have for cookies, etc, or much of .NET's treatment of web based services - I can write my own XML parser damnit and this whole rolling back application changes...who programs in such a way that you would ever use this? But it seemed that the framework does allow for better delivery of applications to the client, which seemed to me to be the true power. In fact, very little time of the training was spent talking about the web. Instead, it seemed to be about building applications using VB and C#. It seems to make sense that .NET is not about the WWW, but instead is about making people buy the framework so they can run the applications developed by the people that bought the developer tools. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't really see .NET being much about, well, the net.
He doesn't get it either - I feel vindicated...
Cheers,
Jim in Tokyo
-- My Weblog.
I think in hindsight, .Net will be taught not in Computer Science courses but in Business Marketing courses as a failure of Public Relations.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
One of the people at the White House Office of Cybersecurity told me an interesting story once.
About 2 years ago he was at a briefing of high mucky-mucks where Gates was pitching all of the Good Things (TM) that .NET was going to be.
My friend was in one of the front rows, not twenty feet from Gates. He knew that if he raised his hand, Gates couldn't ignore him. So he waited for a few reporters to ask their usual lame questions and then made his move: "Bill, how in the hell are you going to secure all of this?"
He says that Gates's eyes glassed over and his knuckles, where he'd been gripping the edges of the podium, turned white. He spent the next several minutes rambling about QOS -- yes, QOS was going to secure .NET!
There is more to this story that I wish I could tell. Suffice it to say that the White House cybersecurity people (including Howard Schmidt, who was recently vilified here) are not as stupid as slashdotters think they are. These men will never reveal in public their true opinion of Micro$oft, but they have spoken to me in private about it. They're not as far away from our opinions as you think.
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
The speed of java isnt bad at all. Even advanced programs like LimeWire that runs on java is in some cases faster than similar linux native apps once they are started. On my AMD 650 Mozilla takes longer to start than LimeWire. Sadly enough microsoft holds the desktop and will use it to cram in all net services they can fit into it in all default installations and make sure they become a vital part of the os. Like windwows update, why in gods name didnt they do like Redhat and up2date? Because they needed something to bolt IE down in windows with thats why.
HTTP/1.1 400
Well not everyone that has a computer is going to be into it as much as another guy, which is completely fine, of course. Gabe was just ragging on the uber-bored that think Linux is cause for a holy war. I for one, have sworn to choke the shit out of the next guy I meet that is convinced running a counter-strike server on his out-of-date redhat linux server makes him a hacker.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
Reporter 1: What is .NET?
.NET is. You have to see it for yourself.
.NET is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Gates: No one can tell you what
Reporter 2: But I have sources telling me that
I stole this Sig
Heading deeper off-topic. Sorry.
JBoss doesn't have nearly the performance you need for a solid, production container. JBoss for testing and development is WONDERFUL, but for production, you're best to go with either BEA's Weblogic, or IBM's WebSphere.
I've heard conflicting opinions about the relative performance and stability of JBoss compared with WebLogic and other commercial EJB containers. This is not meant as a flame, its an honest question. Can you point to any (even sorta) independent testing that compares these products head-to-head?
I'd be very interested as my organization is currently building a large EJB system and we are considering which container platform to adopt.
Sailing over the event horizon
"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending." If they try to pull a stunt like that i cant think too many will follow them where they go that day. They tried MSN network as an own version of internet at first but people seemed unvilling to lock themselves in volontarily. I cant see any good for the users thet could come from limiting how they could use the internet. If they try, good luck since very many of the people thet uses the internet are the ones that appriciates freedom. If they try to take it away many will go elsewhere and develop nonlimiting technology like encrypted tunneling between hosts. Id like to see them try though because for every customer they piss off there is a possible helping hand in the Open Source community. PS. Be nice to the newbies, dont be an asshole. Ive read some bulletin posts that makes me ashamed of being a linux user. DS.
HTTP/1.1 400
Shouldn't the company care about its customers' vision?
.NET, by announcing iCal and iSync last week at MacWorld. Those two programs allow users of Mac OS X Jaguar to connect their PDAs, cell phones and desktop PIM software to a single database and publish them on the Internet, connect with the calendars of others, and resolve conflicts between the two.
Some columnist recently pointed out that Apple achieved in one stroke everything MS is trying to achieve with
In other words, while Microsoft spent two years talking about Web services and technologies, Apple quietly went about actually building them into a program its users will want to use. MS has been announcing and releasing software for other people to build these Web applications, but Apple decided to lead by example instead.
No doubt the next release of Windows will include similar features, and of course they'll be more widely used than Apple's. But just think what might be happening right now if Microsoft had spent as much time creating Web applications for Windows XP as they did promoting them.
If a person could synchronize their PocketPC to their MSN account and Outlook at the same time, then reconcile with all their coworkers' calendars and documents, without having to do anything more than press a button, Microsoft wouldn't need subscriptions to sell the next version of Office or Windows. Instead they settled for getting halfway there so that they could sell more copies of Exchange Server and keep PocketPCs as expensive as humanly possible.
Yesterday, the day after this mandatory change was to take place, they sent another announcement. It said, in part: We encountered some issues while implementing this new process and as a result this update has been postponed.
Apparently, the company who wants to push .NET down the world's throat can't even make it work correctly for their own in-house projects on their own chosen time table. Good luck to the rest of the world.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
This may be more true than people realize. Even RedHat has implemented it with Up2Date that ties platform and user data to services.
.BOMB wave and you create a really big impediment. What if your accounting service provider goes under? What if your medical data service provider goes under? No easy answers here.
Most Open Source advocates point to a business model that is largly service based. Software for free but support for pay. Much of the traditional software business, especially retail, has been anonymous. Buy the software and run it. This shift will inevitably result in pushing "trust" issues and maintaining customer profiles.
So the next step (talk to Oracle, Sun, MS and Even RedHat) will be distributed services. All you get is services. The only problem is the whole "trust" issue. Who do you trust with your personal data? Your corporate information? Add to this the whole
So for now we remain at status quo. People and companies store their own data and slowly migrate to distributed applications. But the real question is, how do companies trying to exist on the old business model of "pay for software" model survive in a market of free software?
As a consumer who is happy with that status quo, I could care less. I say free beer for everyone. It's a dog-eat-dog corporate world and only the innovative will survive. Give me a reason to spend more money and put my personal or business data at risk.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Do you need Internet Explorer to visit a .net-powered site. Can one use Mozilla?
At a local consumers conference, Microsoft's Bill Gates, apparently growing frustrated over the questions surrounding .NET ("What is it?" "What does it do?" "Why do I need it?") finally said, "Look! You know Java? Same $%#@ thing!" and then stormed out.
.NET. They were looking to brand first and foremost, and it's worked to a certain extent. I know some guys who landed some venture capital who say that they think .NET is great even though they can't quite explain what it is.
.NET and that Microsoft can't answer because they weren't expecting to have to answer them. Consider all those commercials touting One Degree of Separation. Yes, we all know that we could recreate the same systems in any OS/platform, only with .NET you can do it in VB.NET. Perhaps that's a bonus, but only the VB programmers are going to recognize that, and I wonder how many IT departments (the people who'd give the green light on the switch) would be dominated by VB programmers? Or there's the bonus of being able to write ASP+ pages in several different languages. How many different IT departments are dominated by the web programmers? Furthermore, even if the different programmers made a fuss over .NET, I wonder how many IT departments would have said "That's nice, but with a little effort and good design we can incorporate the benefits using our current tech."
You know, to be honest, I think they kept it vague on purpose, so that they could sell a whole bunch of products and tout each one as an essential component of
To be honest, I think if we weren't in the middle of the a Linux revolution right now, nobody would be asking the questions that needed to get asked about
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
As much as I think that Slashdot is funny as hell, I can't stand the "Open Source" attitude they have. -- "I don't care if the whole world stops working... just so long as it's open"
:-)
'nuff said
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
".NET Signals an Industry Shift"
also referenced as the article about "Moore's Triple Crisis".
The author of the article (David Bau, who made the popular "Dave's Google Quicksearch Bar") writes about a three-way Moore's law crisis: crisis in systems, apps and development.
Systems: "the exponentially rising power of PC technology has started to overshoot the needs of the ordinary customer. This means people are starting to shop for cheaper computers instead of more powerful ones."
Development: "Moore's law crisis affects development costs just as dramatically as it affects hardware costs. As computing power gets cheaper and software becomes more ephemeral, it makes sense to save software development hours by wasting CPU cycles." The Garbage collectors and Intermediate Languages of
Applications: "Microsoft is facing the problem of saturation. The widely recognied issue here is that almost everybody who wants to do something with their computer software can already do it. Why would you buy a new version of Microsoft Word or Excel?" "Microsoft is facing competitors like America Online that are using a new model for software applications."
That's why Microsoft introduced his
--
ACid
Does this mean open source software or does this refer to the rampant warez/pirating scene that has existed for as long as I can remember? Or does it possibly mean both?
It does appear that MS is getting more aggressive in their licensing. Personally, I thought the XP licensing was pretty aggressive. But I guess I've accepted it because I was not really surprised when I saw a story describing their latest licensing escapades .
It basically describes how MS plans to end the "XP pro for corporations" pirating party by fixing/rewriting the algorithm used to generate product keys. They also plan to shaft the business customers already using valid keys by forcing this update into a service pack which will require all machines to get a new "valid" key.
-Ladd
Don't Panic.
Once when I was a kid my teacher gave me an F+. Even then I knew biting cynicism when I saw it. An F PLUS? If nary a fellow stundent had been around, I would have given her coffee mug a good ten-second dirty-dickin' and a Frisian Teabag to boot. Bitch (honest, I'm not bitter). .NET is a good thing to me, so I have to give them some credit for that. Once they dive head-first into DRM then I'll whip out the red marker.
Nonetheless (back OT) I don't see MS getting a C, maybe a C+ is better. I'm an AIX and BSD fan and I even think XP is a decent OS. I give them some credit for actually stablizing an OS for once...
Secondly, botching
" In the developer community (at least the ones that make money by programming on the Windows platform) it is slowly gaining popularity"
:)
.NET framework.
:)
of course "developer community" != "Microsoft developer community", that's why I clarified and said
"at least the ones that make money by programming on the Windows platform". Such generalizations make ME wonder if you read the post before hitting "Reply"
Obviously, the ones that DON'T make money by programming on the Windows platform, but insted make money by programming Solaris and Linux applications don't give a rats ass about the
I make my money by doing Web Application development, so sometimes I'm using ASP and VB/VC++ and other times it's JSP and servlets depending upon the platform. For my personal web site I chose PHP hosted on Linux because it's cheaper to run a Linux web host than a Windows web host apparently.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
Jim Allchin, one of the company's top vice presidents, acknowledged the shift in focus in the industry from personal computers to plumbing, and bemoaned the difficulty of getting Microsoft's traditional consumers to care about its new vision.
"It's hard to get sexy about protocols," he said. "It really is about plumbing and concrete and protocols."
translation: we want to come into your house and rip out your plumbing, install our private plumbing network, and you will pay us for the privelege. don't worry, we'll never shut the water off on you, because we're trustworthy--can't you damn fools see that?
add component drag.NET?
Duh, nuh, nuh, nuh.
Duh, nuh, nuh, nuuuuuuuuuuuuh.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
There are successes in that business, but Microsoft isn't one of them. PeopleSoft, Oracle, SAP, EDS, and Automatic Data Processing are the successful players. They're big, vertically integrated companies that build and service what they sell. They're not value-added resellers, and they don't usually work through value-added resellers.
Microsoft's model, that you download something, pay for it forever, and don't bother them much, isn't how it's done. The big service providers provide real service; they are in the business of outsourcing corporate support functions, not pushing software.
"Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending." It isn't clear if Microsoft is talking about something happening beyond their control, or if they're boasting about ending it.
Nothing new. Bill Redux: I remember hearing of an episode from back when GEM and Windows were still battling it out - at a conference panel where Bill and Gary Kildall were members, and Gary was going on about OSs, and how there'd be plenty of ways to run your computer. Bill grabbed a microphone and interrupted, with a clarification to the effect that "No, there will be one way to operate your computers. One. (uncomforatble silence) You may continue."
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
My favorite quote from the Nytimes article is: "Many customers have yet to accept Microsoft's contention that computer software should be subscribed to as a Web-based service rather than purchased as a product they own and use, as most is today". At least they are not beating around the bush about restricting consumer's rights.
Why, o why must the sky fall when I've learned to fly?
-]The fact that Sun's current JDK does not support the tail recursion does not mean that the next releases will not support it. It just does not mandate with a reason. There are problems with supporting tail recursion optimization technique on virtual machine platforms. Also on .NET. I can't remember the details though. But, the open source JVM called Kawa supports tail recursive optimizations with some technique as far as I remember. But you are taking the subject too deep! :) These are not important at all:
.NET being Turing compatible etc. Those are not important. I used .NET and Java. I know both of them well. The point is there is no immediate advantage of using .NET over Java. The performances are not radically different in the end. Java is working already on many platforms. From technical point of view .NET can be interesting, but in real life, it is just another VM specification, and it is a newbee in the kingdom of Java which has been there for 7 years. It is mature, supported by millions of programmers, thousands of open/closed source projects, libraries, frameworks.
-]I am not afraid of Mono. What I do not like is that Mono will help MS in couple of ways. I do not like MS. I find them extremely unethical. They are bullying bastards. I hate them.
-]You may think that Mono will reach production quality in a year, but I won't trust mono before 3 years. None of the decision makers would, until it proves itself after couple of years.
-] You are pulling the conversation into very low level details such as tail recursion optimization,
Dear Bill, do you have a
Your example is interesting. While I don't know if Porsche ever made lawnmowers, at one time they built tractors. You can easily hook up a lawnmower attachment, and away you go. However, I guess the tractors didn't kick enough ass to enthrall many of the faithful, as they only had 9 horsepower.
s /c w0299/schleppercup_i.htm
However, some people care mightily about Porsche's foray into farm technology. Porsche's web site has a page about a Porsche tractor club - you can view it at:
http://www.porsche.com/english/events/clubs/new
Draw your own parallels =)
July 25, 2002
Microsoft Tries to Explain What Its
By JOHN MARKOFF
EDMOND, Wash., July 24 -- Two years into its quest to create a new kind of Internet-enabled computing it describes as
One day before its annual conference for financial analysts, the company assembled its top executives before several hundred reporters and industry analysts and engaged in a tutorial that one participant referred to as ".Net for Dummies."
The
Microsoft is now locked in competition with small start-up companies that originally pioneered the Web services field, as well as with software and hardware giants like I.B.M., Oracle and Sun Microsystems, all of which are developing their own Web services.
Microsoft's chairman and chief software architect, Bill Gates, said that he gave his company good marks so far for creating the basic software infrastructure for
"We still get people saying to us, `what is
Jim Allchin, one of the company's top vice presidents, acknowledged the shift in focus in the industry from personal computers to plumbing, and bemoaned the difficulty of getting Microsoft's traditional consumers to care about its new vision.
"It's hard to get sexy about protocols," he said. "It really is about plumbing and concrete and protocols."
Moreover, the challenge that Microsoft faces in explaining and promoting a new style of computing that is intended to harness millions of disparate large and small computers is complicated by a growing consensus in the computer industry that few new software ideas will be realized until large corporate customers resume spending on the infrastructure of information technology.
Mr. Gates took some time in his review of the company's technology to recalibrate the industry's expectations about how quickly its
"Phase 1 is essentially behind us, with things that went well and not so well," he said. "This is a long-term approach. These things don't happen overnight."
Microsoft sketched out an abbreviated road map today of how it will introduce products that offer
Finally, a brief demonstration was given of Windows Media Center -- a PC-based television that is intended to bring
Mr. Gates indicated, however, that the company's software promised land would be a new version of its Windows operating system with the code name Longhorn, which is still at least two years off.
Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending.
The company is trying to influence an industry consortium called the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance, which has been trying to create a new standard that will build a cryptographic key system into future personal computers.
The idea has been challenged in the past by both civil liberties and consumer groups, who argue that it could potentially undercut privacy and intellectual property fair-use rights.
Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company
Why do these projects all have silly codenames? The codenames are leaked to the press, so they're not really "secret." What other use do they have other than to sound "cool" (aka "goofy")
I didn't expect this.
At my high school, we could receive a grade of "E" as well as "F".
An E meant you Failed (With Effort). That is, you did homework and tests, but you just did so poorly that you received a failing grade.
An F meant that you just plain Failed, as in you stopped trying or didn't even care. I think that F's outweighed the E's, but receiving an E was by no means rare.
Knowing Microsoft, what do you think?
Note to M1-ers: a curt but otherwise insightful message is not "Flamebait" or "Troll".
I finally found out what .NET is. It's a label to attach to the winner of Bill's: "Lets throw everything up against the side of the barn and we will see what sticks...." Whatever sticks is going to get the grand prize of --- "We bestow upon thee the label .NET" --- "See world here is what we were talking about..."
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
And the Systems of Software name is LongHorn.
Watch out for rich clients,
Hah! Your microsoft-speak gives you away. Only microsofties seem to use "rich" as a euphemism for "loaded with bells'n'whistles". They seem to love that word, must be the images of money it conjures up.
-- Alastair
if linux won't run on PCs made after a certain point in time, I'll switch to Mac hardware. After all, I can still run Linux on a PPC if none of the PC cloneboard companies make non-palladium boards. Same goes for internet services. If none of the sites i want to use will let me do it without palladium/.net/other bullshit, i'll go to different sites. And while i'm ranting and killing my karma, when i bought my domain, i had intended to get it .net till Microsoft rolled out their .NET scheme. then i changed my plans and bought a .org.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Schnapple
Porsche Lawn mowers! I've searched the net but cannot find anyone selling them :-(
I NEED one of the SO bad.
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
Gates really does now think he's a prophet, like Moses. Anyone notice that the next version of 'doze after longhorn will be called "Promised Land". Thanks Bill, for rescuing me. Not. (Or should that be .NOT ?)
Perhaps the developers could dub one of the shared libraries .BUTTERFLY. Then, at least, the users of .NET would have something to chase.
(There go my karma points...)
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
I tend to agree that MS has made a mess of the marketing, because the .Net Framework itself sure is cool. It has changed my life, increased my salary by five figures and let me and my team build good stuff in a hurry. All this in a down economy!
What continues to be funny to me though is that people go on and on slamming Microsoft while those of use who actually use the stuff are out there building things. Does anyone actually do that anymore?
Microsoft could release a cure for cancer and most of you would rather die waiting for Service Pack 2 than be cured.
Microsoft also warned today that the era of "open computing," the free exchange of digital information that has defined the personal computer industry, is ending. The company is trying to influence an industry consortium called the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance, which has been trying to create a new standard that will build a cryptographic key system into future personal computers. The idea has been challenged in the past by both civil liberties and consumer groups, who argue that it could potentially undercut privacy and intellectual property fair-use rights. And also very clear that IP advocates see the digital revolution as a way to completely eliminate fair use rights....and Microsoft is leading the charge. This is a well planned, deliberate crusade by corporate America to take away individual's rights. Just look at how they have Congress and the courts already in their pockets! The DMCA is one of the most blatent anti-consumer, pro-corporate, special interest laws in history! And now the greedy bastards think even the DMCA isn't enough..they want to build additional 'protections' into the hardware and the OS software...and make software that doesn't have these 'pet things' illegal. My hope is that the massive corporate greed that deregulation has spawned will finally let the American public see how the wool has been pulled over their eyes. Already Congress is running scared..they know that they allowed corporate greed to run unchecked and now it's biting them in the ass. Maybe they'll finally 'get it' with regards to the fact that the PEOPLE send their asses to Congress..not the RIAA and MPAA!
.... you mean its just like M-life?
The one thing that the JVM doesn't do as well as .NET is supporting languages other than Java. This has been its Achilles' heel. Although you can sort of coerce other languages to run on the JVM, the match isn't very nice. The CIL and CLR provide a much more friendly interface to languages other than C# and, thanks to our friends at the Mono project, .NET will soon have the platform interoperability that once only Java could boast of. If Sun wants to remain relevant in the portable VM space, they need to embrace languages other than Java.
That is all.
If I'm not mistaken, Sun hasn't sent any of Java to the ECMA. Correct me if I'm wrong but the language itself hasn't been submitted despite many broken promises that it would be. There is a long story to this. Suffice it to say I think right now (and in the end) Java will be far more open than .NET will ever be. MS has never changed standards to break existing competing products (SMB, Word and Excel format versions, etc.). Between the JCP (Java Community Process) and IBM offering alternatives to Su If I'm not mistaken, Sun hasn't sent any of Java to the ECMA. Correct me if I'm wrong but the language itself hasn't been submitted despite many broken promises that it would be. n in the Java arena, I think it's safe to say the Java will offer more diversity than .NET (even with mono) ever will. MS products will (at least for the near future) be stuck in the monoculture that produced them.
So it's like Trumpet Winsock!
(anybody remember that? My god... I think I've still got a copy around somewhere...)
t_t_b
I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
The funniest part of the Reuters report is what Bill is caught standing next to in the photograph.
. . . PHP is also an excellent alternative to ASP.
.NET?
I read somewhere that PHP is the fastest growing scripting language on the web, and has already surpassed the popularity of the more mature ASP.
Exellent development tools available for Java make it a good choice for some bigger web projects, but the downside is that the cost of setting up a server. Not too many people offer virtual hosting for java. You pretty much need your own server with root access to set things up.
For smaller projects you can get a domain name, virtual host with PHP, and mySQL for about $20 US per month.
Of course you can design and test both technologies on your free OS, with your free web server, with your free database.
So why is anybody switching to
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Forgive me, but I'm not grokking you here. To what event/speech/news item are you referring?
In times of universal deceit, telling the truth gets you modded -1 Troll
Just visit any Porsche discussion board to see the reaction to the new Kick-ass Porsche SUV.
Check out the specs at Porsche's website -- it really does seem to be something special, yet most Porsche enthusiasts seem to be against it.
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Solaris get's a B from me. osx10.2 aka jaguar gets an A+ it actually feels like it's from the future.
I used to have a better sig than this, but I got tired of it
I have a better definition for .NET that Microsoft might seriously consider:
" It's like Java, but pretty. "
Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
stereotypically if a person has managed to work their way up to the level of Bill Gates et al., he or she must have very little concern for other people, that's just the way it works.
Microsoft reminds me most of the quote: "You never loved me, all you wanted was for me to love you!"
Not to a speech, but to this "Trustworthy Computing" e-mail, sent to me (as, presumably, to tens of thousands of others) last week: -----Original Message----- From: "Bill Gates" Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 01:10:32 To: Subject: Trustworthy Computing I'm writing to you, as a reader of one of Microsoft's customer newsletters, about an issue of particular importance to those of us who routinely use computers in our work and personal lives - making computing more trustworthy. Trustworthy Computing involves a lot of things - reliability, security, privacy and business integrity. Before I share my thoughts about this in more detail, I want to give you some context on why I am sending this email. This is the first in an occasional series of mails that CEO Steve Ballmer and I, and periodically other Microsoft executives, will be sending to people who are interested in hearing from us about technology and public-policy issues that we believe are important to computer users, our industry and everyone who cares about the future of high technology. This is part of our commitment to ensuring that Microsoft is more open about communicating who we are and what we are doing. As I mentioned at the outset, you are receiving this email as a recipient of a Microsoft newsletter. If you would like to hear from me, Steve and periodically from other Microsoft executives in the future, please go to http://register.microsoft.com/subscription/subscri beMe.asp?lcid=1033&id=155. If you don't wish to hear from us again, you do not need to do anything. We will not send you another executive email unless you choose to subscribe at the link above.
As I've talked with customers over the last year - from individual consumers to big enterprise customers - it's clear that everyone recognizes that computers play an increasingly important and useful role in our lives. At the same time, many of the people I talk to are concerned about the security of the technologies they depend on. They are concerned about whether their personal data is being protected. Although they know that computers can do amazing things, they are frustrated that their technology doesn't always work consistently. And they want assurances that the high-tech industry takes these concerns seriously and is working to improve their computing experience.
Six months ago, I sent a call-to-action to Microsoft's 50,000 employees, outlining what I believe is the highest priority for the company and for our industry over the next decade: building a Trustworthy Computing environment for customers that is as reliable as the electricity that powers our homes and businesses today.
This is an important part of the evolution of the Internet, because without a Trustworthy Computing ecosystem, the full promise of technology to help people and businesses realize their potential will not be fulfilled. Ironically, it is the growth of the Internet and the advent of massive computing systems built from loose affiliations of services, machines, communications networks and application software that have helped create the potential for increased vulnerabilities.
There are already solutions that eliminate weak links such as passwords and fake email. At Microsoft we're combining passwords with "smart cards" to authenticate users. We're also working with others throughout the industry to improve Internet protocols to stop email that could propagate misleading information or malicious code that falsely appears to be from trusted senders. And we are making fundamental changes in the way we develop software, in our operational and business practices, and in our customer support efforts to make the computing experiences we provide more trustworthy.
For example, we've historically made our software and services more compelling for users primarily by adding new features and functionality. While we are continuing to invest significantly in delivering new capabilities that customers ask for, we are now making security improvements an even higher priority than adding features. For example, we made changes to Microsoft Outlook to block email attachments associated with unsafe files, prevent access to a user's address book, and give administrators the ability to manage email security settings for their organization. As a result of these changes, the number of email virus incidents has dropped dramatically. In fact, email viruses like the recent "Frethem" virus propagate only to systems that have not been updated - underscoring the importance of updating them regularly.
We are also undertaking a rigorous and exhaustive review of many Microsoft products to minimize other potential security vulnerabilities. Earlier this year, the development work of more than 8,500 Microsoft engineers was put on hold while we conducted an intensive security analysis of millions of lines of Windows source code. Every Windows engineer and several thousand engineers in other parts of the company were also given special training in writing secure software. We estimated that the stand-down would take 30 days. It took nearly twice that long, and cost Microsoft more than $100 million. We've undertaken similar code reviews and security training for Microsoft Office and Visual Studio .NET, and will be doing so for other products as well.
THE TRUSTWORTHY COMPUTING FRAMEWORK
Trustworthy Computing has four pillars: reliability, security, privacy and business integrity. "Reliability" means that a computer system is dependable, is available when needed, and performs as expected and at appropriate levels. "Security" means that a system is resilient to attack, and that the confidentiality, integrity and availability of both the system and its data are protected. "Privacy" means that individuals have the ability to control data about themselves and that those using such data faithfully adhere to fair information principles. "Business Integrity" is about companies in our industry being responsible to customers and helping them find appropriate solutions for their business issues, addressing problems with products or services, and being open in interactions with customers.
Creating a Trustworthy Computing environment requires several steps:
- Making software code more secure and reliable. Our developers have tools and methodologies that will make an order-of-magnitude improvement in their work from the standpoint of security and safety.
- Keeping ahead of security exploits. Distributing updates using the Internet so that all systems are up to date. Windows Update and Software Update Services, discussed below, provide the infrastructure for this.
- Early Recovery. In case of a problem, having the capability to restore and get systems back up and running in exactly the same state they were in before an incident, with minimal intervention.
FIRST STEPS TOWARD MORE TRUSTWORTHY COMPUTING
There is still much work that Microsoft and others in our industry must do to make computing more trustworthy. Here is a summary of some of the progress we've made, six months after my email to Microsoft employees:
- We have changed the way we design and develop software at all phases of the product development cycle. Our new processes should greatly minimize errors in software, and speed up the development process for new products and services.
- Software Update Services (SUS) is a security management tool for business customers that enables IT administrators to quickly and reliably deploy critical updates from inside their corporate firewall to Windows 2000-based servers and desktop computers running Windows 2000 Professional and Windows XP Professional.
- Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer is a new tool that customers can use to analyze Windows 2000 and Windows XP systems for common security misconfigurations, and to scan for missing security hot fixes and vulnerabilities on a variety of products, including newer versions of Internet Information Server, SQL Server and Office.
- In addition to providing customers with tools and resources to help them maximize the security of Windows 2000 Server environments, we are committed to shipping Windows .NET Server 2003 as "secure by default." We believe it's critical to provide customers with a foundation that has been configured to maximize security right out of the box, while continuing to provide customers with a rich set of integrated features and capabilities.
- The error-reporting features built into Office XP and Windows XP are giving us an enormous amount of feedback and a much clearer view of the kinds of problems customers have, and how we can raise the level of reliability in those products - and that of products made by other companies. As part of this effort, we recently created a secure Web site where software and hardware vendors can view error reports related to their drivers, utilities and applications that are reported through our system. This enables the vendors who work with us to identify recurring problems and address them far more quickly than in the past. All of our server software products will incorporate these error-reporting features in subsequent versions of the products.
- With Microsoft Windows Update, we are completing the customer-feedback loop based on the error-reporting features mentioned above. This globally available Web service delivers more than 300 million downloads per month of the most current versions of product fixes, updates and enhancements. When customers connect to the site, they can choose to have their computer automatically evaluated to check which updates need to be applied in order to keep their system up-to-date, as well as identify any critical updates to keep their system safe and secure.
- We are working on a new hardware/software architecture for the Windows PC platform, code-named "Palladium," which will significantly enhance users' system integrity, privacy and data security. This new technology, which will be included in a future version of Windows, will enable applications and application components to run in a protected memory space that is highly resistant to tampering and interference. This will greatly reduce the risk of viruses, other attacks, or attempts to acquire personal information or digital property with malicious or illegal intent. Our goal is for the Palladium development process to be a collaborative industry initiative.
- We've incorporated what is known as P3P (Platform for Privacy Preferences) technology in the Internet Explorer browser technology in Windows XP, which enhances a user's ability to set privacy levels to suit his or her needs. The P3P standard enables a user's browser to compare any P3P-compliant Web site's privacy practices to that user's privacy settings, and to decide whether to accept cookies from that site.
Identifying and addressing critical Trustworthy Computing issues will require significant collaboration across our industry. One example of the kind of cross-industry effort we need more of is the recent creation of the Web Services Interoperability (WS-I) Organization (http://www.ws-i.org/). Founded by IBM, Microsoft and other industry leaders including Intel, Oracle, SAP, Hewlett-Packard, BEA Systems and Accenture, WS-I's mission is to enable consistent and reliable interoperability of XML-based Web services across a variety of platforms, applications and programming languages. Among other things, WS-I will create a suite of test tools aimed at addressing errors and unconventional usage in Web services specifications implementations, which in turn will improve interoperability among applications and across platforms.
WHAT YOU CAN DO
Given the complexity of the computing ecosystem, and the dynamic nature of the technology industry, Trustworthy Computing really is a journey rather than a destination. Microsoft is fully committed to this path, but it is not something we can do alone. It requires the leadership of many others in our industry and a commitment by customers to establish and maintain a secure and reliable computing environment. For customers, the most important first step is understanding what it will take to make their computers and networks more reliable and safe. Below are some suggestions on what individuals and businesses can do to create a more Trustworthy Computing environment for themselves and others.
- Give us feedback by using the error-reporting features built into Office XP and Windows XP.
- Use Microsoft Windows Update (http://windowsupdate.com/) to ensure that you have the most up-to-date and accurate versions of product updates, enhancements and fixes.
- Businesses customers can take advantage of Software Update Services to download critical updates from Windows Update. (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/windowsupdat e/sus/)
- Use Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer to analyze Windows XP and Windows 2000 for common security misconfigurations. (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default .asp?url=/technet/security/tools/Tools/MBSAhome.as p)
- Enterprise Systems Integrators can take advantage of the Systems Integrator Source Licensing Program (http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sharedsource/) .
- Hardware, software or systems vendors can sign up for Microsoft's Windows Logo Program at http://www.microsoft.com/winlogo/ to ensure a high-quality user experience.
- Find more information about computing security at http://www.microsoft.com/security/.
- Our White Paper on Trustworthy Computing is at http://www.microsoft.com/PressPass/exec/craig/05-0 1trustworthywp.asp.
- If you don't already have Internet Explorer 6.0, download it for free at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/evaluation/ove rview/ to take advantage of its increased reliability and security and privacy features.
We are doing everything we can at Microsoft to make software as trustworthy as possible. By building awareness, through collaborative work and with a long-term commitment, I am confident we can and will create a truly Trustworthy Computing environment.
Bill Gates
For information about Microsoft's privacy policies, please go to: http://www.microsoft.com/info/privacy.htm.
No, sir, YOU most of all have a duty to do your best to ensure that YOUR representative understands how you, the represented, wishes him to vote. He is YOUR representative. People from your state are the ones with the problem of a rogue, corrupt politician, and I sure hope you SC people do something about him before he takes down all of us.
Unfortunately, us in other states can only beg and cajole you to vote him out, or convince him of changing his ways. Instead, I have to wait for your deranged idiot to make his move, submit his stupid legislation, then spend my time trying to convince my representatives to vote against his crap. It would be much better if you SC people would just take responsibility for your problem.
What?! you mean I can't be both, like Nobel Prize Winner John Nash?
Nah, because higher education gets dumbed down to match what is coming out of the high schools. Your younger brother will do just fine in college. Won't actually LEARN as much as you did, but who cares about that?
The whole point of modern education these days seems to be keeping people out of the labor force for as many years as possible and brainwashing them with political correctness.
Democrat delenda est
Only microsofties seem to use "rich" as a euphemism for "loaded with bells'n'whistles"
.NET long enough to judge and to know its terms use "rich" as a part of a feature name.
Nope. Only people who have worked with
Your kind of talk disgusts me, would I read and post here if I was a microsoft nazi general?
.."We're .net, and everyone else is .fish"
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Well, what do you know... By the time I read it, the headline is "Gates admits 'misstep' in parts of .NET launch".
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Lots of people hither and you are annoying at Apple charging for .Mac. But what I see coming from .Mac and the reason I signed up even though I didn't really use iTools before is that Apple has created a number of compelling real-world web services that people want to, and will be able to, use.
One service I'm looking forward to you didn't even mention is the web backup, which is sort of an extension of iSync in my mind (or perhaps it's really part of iSynch?).
On top of the interesting services they have announced they'll be developing more services in the future, from the same minds that designed iPhoto and iTunes.
And all this at a flat fee - note that while MS wants you to pay every time you open Word, Apple is content to let you pay a minimal yearly fee and do what you like, charging extra only for real resources like more disc space.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
In any case, my company is listening (and the linux processes that I write in Java/C++ will supply the data to these C# front ends).
there is no thing
what else could you want?
No to suck too much wind out of your sails, but why?
Java seems to have done pretty well as is, and I really haven't seen anyone saying "You know, Java would be perfect if only I could compile my old SNOBOL code in it.".
Personally I think there are very few useful libraries you could write that would work well across multiple languages - in almost any given case you'd be better off obtaining or writing a library that present a language-friendly API that takes advantage of a languages features, than a library that CAN be used by any language but really only makes sense in a few.
I was convinced of this fact when I read a white paper some time ago detailing how Eiffel# would work, and how it would call into standard CLR libraries... I wish I could find that paper but I've nad no luck for months.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Microsoft is talking about the DMCA and the things worse than it which are to come.
Let's face it: this injustice is going to continue as long as the generation of people who were hippies in the 1960's are in power.
This generation is filled with people who bucked centuries of moderately well-functioning social customs for a narrow-minded, self-centred set of principles that were logically broken, namely, that everyone could be a freeloader, and that taking mind-altering drugs and raising children only affect the individuals who make those decisions.
We're not going to change these people's minds about these technology issues, because that would involve drastically changing the thought process that has been engrained in their minds since their childhood.
What's the need behind these custom 'sandbox' environments? Why can't we use, for example, an 80x86- or 680x0-based architecture as the model for our virtual machine, and the VM software could just be a hacked copy of Bochs or UAE or whatever running a custom OS/BIOS combination?) This would have several advantadges:
1. Limits and optimization of the VM platform are well-known. People know how to make a good optomizing compiler for 80386-- do they know for CLR architecture?
2. Many development tools exist, and/or could be modified to suit the needs of the architecture relatively quickly. Language choice is helped.
3. There is actual hardware somewhere that could be used to run the VM-compiled software natively, or at least with faster native-code based execution (like DOSEMU or Plex86)
Is this path ignored because it makes vendor lock-in more difficult in terms of development tools and VM sources?
It's just like a fascist dictatorship, without the punctual rail service!
That was the most pointless rant ever posted on this forum. You spouted a bunch of random facts that together made absolutely no sense.
Let me let you in on a little secret..Linux will never, ever be a desktop OS for the simple reason that only a fool wants to do something the hard way. This has nothing to do with education or laziness or drive. Because for every 1 person you show me that calls himself an avid linux user I can show you 10 people in the business world that want an OS that's easy to set up and use. Reliability and Security? Let the tech's worry about it, it's not their problem. You seem to think only in right and wrong, black and white.
Try thinking like a business man and you'll see: their is no right and wrong, only cheap and expensive, hard and easy.
But you go ahead, keep the dream alive. While you live in that world, I'll live in the real one. The Linux Desktop will never exist.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
So Hailstorm's failed?
I was a little scared about Hailstorm from what I read.
From this story on Yahoo:
.NET means?" he said. "Well, we want the choices all to be exactly the same: software to connect information, people, systems and devices."
"A lot of people like flexibility in choices, so what are the choices here in terms of what
A lot of people like flexibility in choices...we want the choices all to be the same...
Actually they sent all of it, then took it back, since they recognized what MS was doing. The point is, you can use Java language in a free manner. They language itself is in the control of the Sun (well, actually, not totally, through the JCP many other firms are controlling it.) Sun did never threaten open source community, or sees it as a virus, or communist. They are getting ready to release their own Linux distribution. Sun is protecting Java by holding its controls. Actually, they are doing really well. The only bad thing is that Sun's marketing do not work well enough, like MS's. Also, their JVM implementations could be better.
MS is much more unethical than Enron, or Worldcom.
Dear Bill, do you have a
Dear Anonymous Coward, MS cannot even approach J2ME's success. There will be 100 million Java phones in the world end of this year. What are you talking about?
.NET based application servers are around?
:)
Lets look at the application server world. BEA, ORACLE, IBM, SUN, HP, FUJITSU, JBOSS, ORION, APACHE, etc. All of their application servers, ALL of them, are Java J2EE based. It took years of these firms to mature these products. Make them secure, make them optimized. Websphere is in its 8th release or something like that. How many
Java is very very portable. It simply works. I am not lying. I've been developing in Java for 7 years. We have developed many products which DO work CURRENTLY on Mac, Mac OS, Windows 9x, NT, XP, 2000 etc, Linux, Unix, Solaris. The tweaking was necessary, as you said. 1 day tweaking for every new system. : )
C# has some superiorities over Java, but it is not important, since Java is working already. And, the improvements are not really vitally important. Apart from that, I do not like C# much, (I've been using it for one year), since I think that the additions over the Java language it brings are harmful. Such as operator overloading.
Also we should remember that neither C#, or Java are fixed languages. Java is getting better with every release. JDK 1.4.1b is working incredibly fast already. Has lots of new features.
Dear Bill, do you have a
Maybe you should check it out. ; ) One language is always an advantage. If every computer engineer knew only one language (of course ONE for ONE language type. Such as LISP and C++ are different, used for different things.) everything would be much easier.
.NET. That is why they did not give VB.NET etc. the same broad functionality as C#. Different languages of .NET is a marketing bullshit. Check out JVM languages here: t ml
.NET VM is not an exception. .NET has only one very generic language called CL (common language). All the .NET languages are the same language with same functionality and capability, with different syntatic sugar. So, in order to fit into CL, these languages are cut and crippled and changed to make them .NET compatible. I am sorry, but that is not my type of thing.
Also, CLI is just another VM like JVM. It is possible to develop more than one languages over JVM too. There are something like 160 languages already developed on top of JVM. But, Sun did not want to push these. It only concentrated on Java, since they knew about the power of being equilingual. MS also knows that, so that C# is the most prominent language of
http://grunge.cs.tu-berlin.de/~tolk/vmlanguages.h
The important thing is it is not possible to create a VM, which may support all the languages. Because there are huge variety of languages. For instance, it is not possible to run dynamic languages like C, C++ on top of VMs directly.
Dear Bill, do you have a
I didn't have any trouble putting his "random facts" together. And I certainly didn't find him pointless. You, on the other hand, DO seem to be missing a point or two from your pointy little head. But I digress. What always amazes me about these little rants is that they never seem to relate to what has been said. It's as if the poster didn't bother to read the previous post. And this from a character whose sig line is: Arrogance and Ignorance go hand in hand. They certainly do seem to, don't they? ;o) How more arrogant and ignorant can you get than not bothering to read the words of your target?
Hic iacet Arthurus, rex quondam rexque futurus.
At my alma mater, the University of Arizona, we actually had 'E' instead of 'F'. Why, I'll never know. Maybe they thought 'F' implies failure, and they don't want to bruise any delicate egos...
-J
Yup, and I also think it's cool how Apple is handleing this economy business. They are releasing new products, new services. Give me Jaguar w/isync, one of those new sony ericson phones, and a iPod. These are great man toys for a boy who grew up with the nintendo enertainment system.
> What do you think the chances are than Microsoft can create a VM to run on Solaris? Can, or will? Microsoft has had plenty of time and loads of resources to port their products to Free (in the FSF sense) Operating Systems, like FreeBSD and Linux. But they don't, for fear that it will destroy their empire. I think that Microsoft has plenty of opportunity to create a .NET VM on Solaris.
And I've been wondering about dotnet too... For me, a software developer, dotnet is nothing more than a huge runtime library. And the sad thing is that while it can create very small executables, you're always stuck with this huge library. Even worse, dotnet is supposed to put an end to the DLL hell but I'm not so sure about that. I do know that with dotnet, I can't support any Windows '95 anymore. Even '98 and older NT machines are a bit hard to support since dotnet is very resource-hungry.
Dotnet is also supposed to become platform-independant. Yeah, right... Do you believe that? It is supposed to run in small devices with very limited resources. I don't see that happening either.
I do know one thing... Their marketing will probably tell lots of dyslectic managers that dotnet is the new standard and that they need to spend huge amounts of cash to support this new technology. Why? Because they've spend lots of months designing new names for old technologies...
What is dotnet? It's nothing more than a set of COM+ components with some additional features. And COM+ itself is based upon COM/DCOM with some additional features. And COM/DCOM is just OLE with some additional features. And OLE? Well, Ole is old... Very old...
So now we're stuck on this advanced OLE library that is supposed to run everywhere. But look a bit further... MS also creates Office-dotnet. A version of Office where some parts of the application will run on a Microsoft server. And MS will probably create more similar applications. It reduces your expensive, powerful computer to a dumb terminal that is connected to some slow server. Why slow? It's slow because you have to share it with those millions of other MS-Office-victims...
Free exchange of digital information? Yea... You can provide your personal information and your creditcard-number to MS for free. Then they will decide what you need and what to spend it all on... And if they notice that your licence is nearly ended they will love to use your creditcard to give you a new licence, free of charge for the extra service...
Gonna be a sad day when my boss decides that investing in dotnet will be more important than increasing my salary...