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Forty-Speed CD-RW Shootout
Keefe John writes: "Several months ago, 40x burning became a reality when Plextor got the jump on all of the other optical storage companies with the PX-W4012TA CD-RW. Since then, many companies have been coming out with versions of their own. As with any genre of products, a few stood out above the rest. Namely, the original tried and true Plexwriter; the wallet-friendly Lite-On, and the speed-daemon Teac. Today Techware Labs will be comparing the three drives on their relative merits. Read the full review over at Techware Labs."
I got this plextor drive shortly after it came out and amazingly, it is QUIETER than the 24x10x40! If you are looking for pretty quiet CD-Rw, I say you should check the plextor 40x12x40 out. Furthermore, the slower one has a fan on the back and mine does not! (Try to get the European version, btw, because it comes with Nero as opposed to Roxio EasyCD.0
If you submit a /. story to a site that you run, please check your bandwidth first to see if it can survive the Slashdot effect, or at least put up a less-graphic version of the page.
Great. That means you can now burn a 74-minute long CD in 111 seconds instead of 139. Just think what you could do with those extra 28 seconds!
Or, no -- wait! Surely it couldn't be that this is just another manifestation of My CPU's Got More Megahertz Than Yours syndrome?
Could it?
--
What short sigs we have -
One hundred and twenty chars!
Too short for haiku.
To be technically correct, they have a MAX speed of 40X. They don't burn at that speed throughout the entire burn, they may reach that speed at some point though. That's why the actual burn time of a CD has pretty much reached it's limit. Going from 8x to 16x is not the same as going from 16x to 32x.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Does anyone still develop SCSI CDRW drives? I need to connect a couple to a unix workstion and using IDE/USB/Firewire is not an option.
Because at that point, you'd be contending with the speed of the IDE bus to avoid buffer underruns.
Until peoples' machines have enough RAM to cache whatever you want to burn, I doubt 52x burning will be reliable.
I expect they'll be around quite a while -- personally I'd still rather spend $20 for 50 cd-rs, and $80 for a fast CD-Burner, than $50 for 5 dvd-rs, and $450 for a slow DVD-Burner.
Anyone know how long it takes to burn a 4.7GB DVD on one of those drives?
do these new drives spin the disc really fast or use some kind of multi-write technology? The article didn't mention it (as I can see)
I remember reading that the current drives are reaching a limit where a disc will shatter because it is spun too fast, could these drives have a problem with that?
Sometime back on /. there was article on how spinning a CD too fast would result in a shattered CD. Now I would be interested in knowing how high spin speeds, below shattering speed, would effect the life span of a CD - would we see pit damage due to heat or any other effects?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
As I recall, each speed increase turns out more frisbees than the last. 10x burns less reliably than 8x, etc.
Not to mention that CD-RW drives DO have a theoretical maximum number of CDs they can burn before they're worn out to the point of turning out NOTHING but frisbees...
Given those 2 points in mind, then what's the point for most people? I'm sure small software or music studios might be able to make use of it (probably cheaper, or at least easier than having their CDs pressed, especially for small runs), but I can't really see it being that practical for the home user very often (yet), especially since I have yet to see a CD-R rated for more than 24x, with most being 16x and the Plextor at least (apparantly) won't let you burn at a higher speed than the CD-R(W) is rated for.
Dark Nexus
"Sanity is calming, but madness is more interesting."
but my problem is finding 40x media, I can usually only find media certified for 32x. Does anyone have any experience using 32x media at higher speeds?
I believe that on most ide burners you need to use the ide-scsi module to get cdrecord to see it. At least that's how it is on all my redhat boxes.
Drop a hdX=ide-scsi into your lilo/grub line.
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
Burning a 4.7G data DVD-R on my Pioneer DVR-A03 takes about 45 minutes.
No 40x LG review? (I can't get at the article, so I'm going to assume what slashdot said was true).
Cheap, and reasonably reliable. Works like a champ in linux. I'd get another LG.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
TCP connection to 'ssadler.phy.bnl.gov' failed: Connection refused.
I guess I'll never know.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
99.99% of standard IDE CD burners work fine in Linux. You just need to enable an SCSI emulation module. Only weird, proprietary CD drives have problems. This goes with any OS, actually.
By the way. I want to share with you folks that there is an awesome KDE front-end for the standard CDRTools for Linux. It is called Arson. http://arson.sourceforge.net/. When I switched to Linux, I was looking for a front-end that worked like Nero for Windows. Arson was the best thhing available. It is currently missing a few minor data CD features, but if you know how to make an ISO from the command line, arson can burn it with just a click from within Konq. It is a beta program now, but it will be pretty awesome when it is done (it is already nice). It works great for burning those MP3s and OGGs to a music CD. It can make VCDs too.
I have the 40X liteon (Cendyne OEM'd box) drive for around $70 last month. It replaced a Verbatim 32X drive I got the month before (took back to get faster drive at same price>
.. I beg to differ. I follow the alt.binaries.multimedia.anime and alt.binaries.anime groups on Usenet and 1.5 - 2 gigs per day of downloads are not uncommon. While this only works out to maybe 3 disks per day I don't religiously burn everything I have every night. Things like wanting to burn only episodes of the same show on a disk or simple lazyness do matter.
.. and at 2:30 per disk vs 3:00 - 3:30 per disk. It makes a big difference.
While there is only a comparitively small increase in speed the actual usable speed was more than a minute better. The Verbatim drive took much longer to close the session out and waited till later in the burn to switch up to it's highest speed.
As far as the argument that faster speeds are bragging rights only
I sometimes queue up 35 gig or more of stuff to burn
Someone may comment that I just need to get a DVD drive. That's the next step, for right now a 40x burner and $0.10 per CD or lower is more cost effective than $270 (with shipping and such) for a DVD burner and ~$2.00 per DVD.
Faster is not necessarily better.
We prevent drives writing faster than 8x because we have found the disks cause problems further down the line when sent as demos (unplayable) or to CD pressing plants where there are errors found on the disks.
---- The Open Source Record Label : : LOCARECORDS.COM
I guess it's time to replace my crappy HP 2X CD-Writer...
This space left intentionally blank.
Dont exactly remember the link, but I read somewhere that you could effectively update the firmware to have LiteOn 40x run at 48x. I own a Lite On 40x12x48x and my previous one used to run only at 2x (otherwise the buffer errors would kick in). And it was a huge difference to jump from 40 mins to 3 mins.
I dont own a Plextor, but I would say on a cost to performance basis, LiteOn wins hand down. Never turned out a coaster in the last few hundred CDs.
Rapid Nirvana
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Moe: Heh heh, I got it used from the navy. You can flash-fry a buffalo in forty seconds.
Homer: Forty seconds? But I want it now!
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
You can get the Lite-On 40x cd-rw for around $70. The cool part is on their website you can download a flash upgrade to make it a 48x burner. 48x cd-rw for $70 is a good deal
1+2+1+1 || 1+2+2+1
Somebody (I forget who, Maxtor maybe?) made a CD drive that had 7 lasers working in parallel... it did speed up the drive, but it still wasn't cost effective, so the idea never took off.
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
Ummm... Best Buy has lousy prices, dude. You can get a Teac 40X for $90 online, or a Lite-on 40X for around $60. I just ordered a Teac 40X the other day from NewEgg for $86, and am expecting it in the mail real soon now.
Lex orandi, lex credendi.
These new CD-RW drives are nice, but what I really want to know is can I use them to make a backup of my copy of NWN, WarCraft3, etc? Considering the damn copyrestrictions they place on them, with 90 day warranties for replacement (ha...). Especially considering if you have a "collector's edition" game with special CDs (e.g. Diablo 2, WarCraft 3, etc), if that CD gets damaged, the best you get is a replacement with a regular edition CD (hey, it's nice to have a goodlooking set!)).
A) No-CD cracks don't work because most games are beta-quality, and patches come out continually.
B) Unauthorized patches are bad if you want network play (I paid for the game, I want to play online!)
C) If my CD breaks, and I couldn't copy it, you bet I will look for a pirated copy. Sorry, but the price of today's games (add taxes and stuff, and it's over $100 Canadian!) mean I'll buy *ONE* copy. If it breaks, you're going to get roasted the next time one of your games comes out (I paid $100 for this shiny disc I can't use anymore?).
D) A disposable CD-R backup is excellent when you go to LAN parties as well as to friend's houses. Never worry about losing a game somewhere.
(And it isn't a piracy issue. If I pirated the games, all I'd do is burn the damn ISOs onto CDs, copy them to my hard disk, and use a CD emulator like Daemon Tools (great for mounting Linux ISOs on Windows). I'd just need any damn CD-RW drive that can write a ISO9660 filesystem!)
Ah, furgitaboutit. I'll just use CloneCD to dump the CDs to ISOs.
This Page [google cache] tested CD Roms to destruction and concluded the fastest a CD rom could spin at without self-destructing was 64x to quote
"A 64x drive using CLV would have to rotate the disc with 33,920 rpm when reading an inner track, exposing the hub of the disk to a tangential force of some 45 N/mm2. A point on the periphery of the disc will be moving with 213 metres per second, slightly more than half the speed of sound. Can the disc take that?
The answer is no. A powerful no.
At about 52x, i.e. 27,500 rpm, most manufacturer's CDs blew up in a rain of plastic particles, leaving their marks on the premises. The result was a pile of shimmering plastic chips."
seems a bit silly/iresponsible to even get close to those speeds if storing data reliably is an issue (especially using 20c media), sure the drive might reach those speeds but will the media ?, has this drive got something special to prevent destruction (multiple heads etc) or is it just using brute force ?
- Although the maximum reading speed of the drive is 48x, it will be factory set at 40x and includes a SpeedRead function that enables users to select the higher speed.
Oh, the burnmanity!Patrick Peeters explains: "The reason we use this unique approach is to provide flexibility to customers: for the vast majority 40x is the ideal mix of speed/quality, but there are a small number that will require 48x. However, the increase in speed from 40x to 48x can increase the noise for any drive in the market. In extreme circumstances using high-speed reading, where the CD is severely scratched, it can explode in any drive and even cause injuries to the user. We have redesigned the PlexWriter 48/24/48A drive to strengthen the front bezel to prevent any injuries. To our knowledge, we are the only manufacturer in the market to have implemented this safety feature."
Money for nothing, pix for free
Since I can't read the story, I'll ask here. I just returned an OptoRite 40x12x40 drive. It had the following problems: hung when reading a CD for duplicating (back off RIAA - it was a Linux disk); hung when writing a CD-RW; and would get a media error about 500MB into writing a CD-R. Does anyone know if this sounds like a bad drive, or is there some Linux (Mandrake 8.2) incompatibility? It said it would work with Linux on the box.
Also, is OptoRite the same as the Lite-On? I see alot of $40 40x12x40's and they all seem to be OEM'ed from the same place.
CDR-s are going to be around for at least another 5 years. probably longer. they are a wecomed and standard that everyone is comfortable with. PLus, CDR is cheaper than floppy to use $0.14 per disc in the US for 20X unbranded/no label media.. (from Compusa almost every time I walk in there and look at the bottom shelf) Compared to the cheapest DVD-R media at $3.95 per disc in a spindle of 25 (I have yet to see anyone carry a 100disc spindle)
Plus, DVD-R is still in it's infancy, everyone makes coasters once in a while (like CDR was in it's early days) and isnt reliable enough yet along with the moronic manufacturers having 900billion different standards.. (Morons, choose one that WORKS with set-top dvd players and trash everything else!)
CDR is probably going to outlive DVD-R if the industry keeps screwing around like it does.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Taiyo Yuden, baby. The real stuff is available at Americal.Com or you can get TYs badged as Fuji just about everywhere. Great stuff. Won't last as long as Mitsumi Gold but is close.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
What happened to SCSI CD-Rs?
They have all seemed to die. The best ones were Plextor ones, but now plextor just seems to make IDE drives. I am a SCSI advocate, and really would rather not have IDE stuff in my system. I know that my SCSI harddrives could keep up with a SCSI CD-R, and probably still let me play quake 3 at the same time, without fear of underrun.
Anyone know any SCSI CD-R manufacturers?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Someone, somewhere, is thinking very hard about how to turn his knowledge into a dangerous anti-piracy measure.
"Damn man, what happened to your arm?"
"Was trying to cd-to-cd copy some juarez and the damn CD exploded. My cat wasn't as lucky."
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
I believe the reason that a badly manufactored CD won't explode at 40X is because when a CD drive claims 40X speed they are talking about the speed of the outermost bits of the disk. While the test you refered to is talking about the hub. I don't know what the difference in speed is, but I'm sure it's very significant.
Kind thoughts do not change the world
AFAIK, Cendyne and Buslink are both shipping Lite-On drives at the moment.
A friend of mine had similar problems with an Optorite unit.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
Ummmm let's see at 64x the disk flies apart and kills everyone in the room just like a jet turbine failure. So let's say they lick that problem.....how soon before we see an alcohol/chlorine/halon/liquid nitrogen injection Pelltier effect cooled drive chassis unit.
Seriously if you need to save that much time just invest some dollars for a multi duping unit and burn 4 or 6 or 12 or 20 CDs at the same time.
I think I've heard something along those lines. I know they're selling 48x drives at least, as I have a 48x12x48 Lite-On at home now. (The spindle of media I'm currently using max out at 40x, though another spindle in my stash of blanks will burn at 48x.)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Every single damn story about CDR burners has people bitching about the apparent worthlessness between the difference between 40X and 48X or even 24X and 48X. Well folks, this difference is real if you burn more than on CD (OMG!). Get over it!
007, you're mission is to burn 1000 CDs, you have to choices, buy a 40X burner for $45 or buy a 48X for $55 (Lite-on, pricewatch.com). What do you choose?
Damn easy choice isn't?
Whatever about saving that precious extra 30 seconds or so during burning, I prefer to know that my burner can handle some of the more neferious copy protection schemes now coming to market.
Many of these are based on sending abnormally regular EFM subchannel data to the CDRW and relying on it to crap out. You can get details about the capabilities of current burners here, but this CloneCD list describes exactly which burners have the firmware "Correct EFM-Encoding" cojones to defeat the latest copy protection.
I'm glad to see that the "wallet-friendly Lite-On" drives seem to feature some of the the most consistent support for defeating EFM trickery.
Da Blog
I recently burned over 500 copies of CD's (Attn. RIAA: content is church services, so no copyright issues here). Equipment included a CD tower with 40x Lite-On drives, media was rated for that speed.
I had three coasters. That is a 99.4% success rate.
So the overall reliability at high speeds is good. You are probably more likely to have coasters when using a CD-R (even the same ones I have) in a computer where demands are made by other processes, hard drives are fragmented, and users are idoiots (j/k).
Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
> At about 52x, i.e. 27,500 rpm, most manufacturer's CDs blew up in a rain of plastic particles
But what about all those 52x and higher CD-ROM drives out there?
If the format works in Set-tops, that raises the scarey specter of piracy.
I'm the stranger...posting to
> and get a much slower drive (12/10/32 vs 40/12/40 or 40/12/52).
Sanyo has a 24x/10x/40x SCSI CD-RW drive available, but they're not as cheap as their IDE cousins of course. Maybe it will pay for itself in fewer frisbees and frustration?
Ah, but what about reading older CD-ROMs at 64x+? Would they blow apart just reading the TOC?
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
I heard that many people had reliability issues. Kenwood appears to have discontinued theirs, even though it's the only product listed on their computer peripherals page. I think their webmaster needs to wake up!
I bought a Sony drive about 4 years ago that stopped working after about 10-20 disks. If I remember correctly it could read it's own writing, but other drives couldn't, so maybe it some kind of alignment problem. Replaced it with an HP 8x4x24 that is still going.
What about something like Flash or similar formats?
I've fallen in love with those tiny keychain devices that you plug into USB ports and they act as little HDs... Just great for carrying stuff around.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
The writing is full CAV too with 8Mb cache. And Mt Ranier support, which is just wonderful, for those that don't know this means you just put in a blank CDR/CDRW and start packet writing to it - the formatting is done in the background so no annoying wait before the disc is usable.
I'm not too sure about the Disc T@2 feature, I suppose it's nice putting graphics round the edge of a CDR but I tend to fill them up.
Err, it wasn't a reason for me to get it but somebody might care that the LED is blue/purple. Oh and my previous fastest CDRW is a 12x10x32 so this is a useful increment.
I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.
Well, the low price of CDRs only came about recently, as sales of the drives reached a "critical mass" that allowed bulk sales of blank CDR media.
It looks like DVD writers are following much the same trend that CDR drives did. Therefore, I'd say DVD writable technology will displace CDR/CDRW by the end of next year. Xmas-time is always a key factor, as the home user typically gets these types of upgrades as gifts around the holiday season.
Last Xmas, DVD-R/RW made its intro. (Xmas provided the excuse to get the units on the shelves of stores like Best Buy and CompUSA at sub $500 pricing.) This Xmas, you can be sure DVD writers will be on a lot of holiday shopping lists, and help make them more "mainstream". By *next* Xmas, they ought to start taking over the world of CDRs.
Not with CD-R/w drives, no. The first one, purchased ~4 years ago was a Matsushita 4x CD-R SCSI drive and it still is going strong today! This drive has no buffer underrun prevention since it was not invented at the time of purchase, but still not a buffer underrun in ~3 years (150+ discs) on it. My Plextor 24x10x40 served me well for a few months until I sold it. (30+ discs on that one.) My new Plextor 40x12x40 has been going strong for about 6 months now with ~50 discs burned and no signs of problems.
I suggest you invest in a non-cheap drive (although the Mitsumi should've done you well.) Plextor. Teac. Toshiba. Philips. Yahama. Not Sony, they are annoying with silly software. Actually Lite-On seems to have a good reputation ... my brother has one but it's too new to say it has avoided infant mortality.
Joe Average Computer Guy doesn't read Slashdot. I'd bet better than 80% of the Slashdot crowd is aware of NewEgg and Pricewatch.
Lex orandi, lex credendi.