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Pig-to-Human Transplants On Their Way
cscx writes: "From the folks who brought you Dolly the cloned sheep, come genetically modified cloned pigs which they claim may eventually be able to donate their organs to humans for transplant usage. Who knows, we may make that mark on your driver's license obsolete after all."
Is this gonna be kosher or not?
Once firemen can donate their eyes for transplant, then I'll buy this whole "science" thing.
Okay, so fifty years ago a patient would have died from a failing organ, now that patient lives. Is this a case where the strongest no longer survive? Are we on our way to overpopulation? Eh, that's off topic. But, after we all praise this as a life saver, what are the consequences?
The Political Programmer
Many people may find it squeemish to have an organ of a pig in their bodies, but it is a good alternative to death.
Help I'm a rock.
So is it going to be healthy for you to eat bacon or does it simply make you a cannibal?
MMMM, Bacon.... drool :p~~~~
Now after I block my veins with fatty deposits, and destroy my heart, the same pig can now give me a new heart? Awesome....
...how you're going to make the Under 21 marking on my CT Drivers License dissapper. I dont know, maybe I'm just being pessimistic
Imagine another species selflessly "donating" their organs to save another species life. Especially if said species isn't exactly threatened by extinction. A big thumbs up to the pigs.
Wasn't this covered already?
Call me when they have human-to-animal transplants...
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
Politicians have been conducting Pork transplants for years...
"Good things don't end with eum, they end with mania or teria." - H. Simpson
Is it only gentically modified policemen that can donate, or can other civil servants also donate their "parts". If so, this is a nightmare of epic proportions. Imagine the lungs from a politician, or the ass from a government worker...
Now animals wont just be raised for the slaughter, but for organ transplants as well. I sure am glad that america wont just eat healthily and not drink beer nonstop.
I will not be trained.
You spelt "oink" wrong on that last one, dude.
Here is what the CIA has to say on the subject.
Demo Trends CIA report
I watch all of this carefully. For many years, they made insulin for humans from pigs (and then later cows). About 20 years ago, they started producing real human insulin. The pig/cow insulins were fairly close to human, and worked well enough to keep people alive.
In recent years, they've been able to transplant islet cells from human pancreases into type 1 diabetics, essentially making them non-diabetic. However, each procedure requires two prancreases, so that drives the cost and effort up. If they could use pig pancreases instead, it'd probably be quite easy and even affordable (once you consider the cost of insulin and all the other supplies) to perform this procedure more.
Of course, the major obstacle they still face is rejection. Beyond the normal sort of organ rejection problem is the fact that type 1 diabetics' bodies were the ones that killed off the insulin producing cells in the first place. A lot of the anti-rejection drugs have their own nasty side-effects, and I'm not sure a life of those is any better than a life of injecting insulin.
Why does the logical conclusion to all this seem to be human cloning? Eventually, I could have myself cloned and the organs harvested if I should need replacements.
I was taking one day at a time, but then several days got together and ambushed me. (from a Rhymes with Orange comic)
Pig valves are already used to replace failed human heart valves.
/. The moderators must be idiots.
Will someone who's Jewish accept one, or insist on the mechanical replacement?
As to why the parent got modded up for humor for all reasons, I'll never understand
Where would you like it - all over your face I presume...?
they were using ground up pig pancreas for insulin, and it barly worked. If they can do this for pig, then why not just humans!
Theonlyuse of monkeys is to testthings onthem.Some peoplemay say"Hey That'scruel!"and myresponse is"I don't like monkeys
If many people don't accept stem cell research as ethical, do you really think that they will accept something like this, which involves a whole animal?
When we look at tissue grafting and associated histocompatibility issues, we usually think of proteins. That is, after all, how the histocompatibility genes were discovered first in mice then humans, and the modern field of immunogenetics was founded. However, the article points to sugars and how their absence can so lessen acute xenograft rejection. The role of sugars in cell recognition can be found in the January 1993 issue of Scientific American.
We need more philosophy and less technology.
to the phrase: "Saving my bacon" - hahahaha... *sigh*
* * Always question "the National Interest" - 9 times out of 10 it is a cover for evil
We are the Dork! You will be assimilated.
Americans eat enough food, and now they're going to be pigs?!!
Jonahweb.com has stuff.
This is the perfect forum to try out your pork chops.
Gotta wake up! Gotta wake up!
If we make these xenotransplant pigs intelligent, they'll be able to give informed consent.
This way, if any right groups challenge the ethics of the transplant, the hospital adminstrators can whip out a donor consent card with the pig' little hoof print.
Or course, we'd have to make them really gullible, so they actually volunteer when asked, instead of rolling their eyes and saying "yeah, right!"
The pigs will take us over if we're not too careful!
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
Doesn't anyone else find it troubling that the only animal being used for this procedure is not Kosher? It is as if someone is deliberately trying to exclude Jews from this lifesaving procedure.
So, how long before we have humans genetically modified to grow bacon?? Mmmmmmm bacon...
I don't know about you, but I find that a slow excruciating death makes me a tad more squeemish than a pig's organs :)
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
The below is obviously a troll, but, I'm just curious as to what slashdot readers believe: is saving humans at the expense of animals considered ok?
---begin really bad troll
It appears that some in the slashdot community would never kill an animal to save a human!
Such animal suffering....
Perhaps having human hearts donated to save pigs would be more in line with their way of thinking.
I imagine their having donor cards which say "not to be donated for humans, only to save the pigs (or whales)".
---end really bad troll
I'm all for the idea of this, but sometimes I feel science is too gung ho in the advances that we make. Have we thought about possible negative ramifications this may pose to us as a species? We genetically alter a pig to provide organs for humans. Okay, sounds great if it's is possible. However, in our quest to better ourselves are we forgetting that nature is bettering itself and has been doing so for billions of years through the evolutionary process itself? What happens when artificial evolution (humans modifying other species and ourselves) goes at odds with natural evolution?
Anyone bother to take note that the most deadly flu viruses incubate in pigs before they are transmitted to the human population? While this may be debatable itself there is plenty of evidence that is does. Swine flu has the same effects on pigs that the 1918 flu epidemic had on the human population. While I do not mean to insinuate that genetically altering pigs will lead to such an epidemic, it is plausible. Altering a pig to be able to produce human useable organs will make it even easier for natural evolution to breed diseases in pigs that will effect humans too. It is also plausible that such diseases would have the opportunity to be even more deadly in humans since we would have no time for our species in general to have developed an immunity to the natural afflictions that are already present in the population of pigs.
While I do not jump to any conclusions that this will happen. The possibility should at least be subject to debate in the scientific community before premature action is taken just because it is possible to take such action. If anything in the mean time can't more of us fill out the forms to become organ donors ourselves?
And my heart was going like beep beep beep beep beep. And then my bloop pressure dropped in half and I was like, bhmuuuggghhh? And then half my good heart was, like, gone. It's a shame too, cause it was a really nice heart. Bummer. Oh, and my name is Eric Cartman, and I'm a student. www.apple.com/Have_A_Heart/Switch/
Of all the animals the scientists could have chosen for this technology, they had to choose the pig. Not only Jews, but the 1.25 billion Muslims of the world will be forced to die early rather than recieve one of these transplants.
This technology borders on the genocidal.
Jews and Muslims the world over should DEMAND that this research is ended, and that research into a halal/kosher alternative is made.
And that means not Cows (Hindus will object).
My suggestion would be Horses, since they are not haram/non-kosher in any religion. Or dogs.
Forget the pigs, what I'm waiting for that mammoth to be cloned. I may need a backpack to carry around my heart, but by God they made 'em good back in the old days.
"Hey brother Christian with your high and mighty errand / your actions speak so loud I can't hear a word you're saying"
I can get a brain transplant from one of these pigs to use it as my math co-processor!
Then...I'll have 3 brains!
I want to get a nose translplant and get the snout!
Fucking pedant.
My bet is not. A large segment of the population fear other "modified" things like irradiated meat, what's to make them want actual animal tissue inside of them (and cloned tissue at that..)
Though the prospect of life or death might be enough to persuade most. Of course this still has a long way to go, never mind the cross-species disease issues, etc.
"He is such a pig", "Pig-headed bastard!", "Quit being such a pig, leave some for us", and "Everything seems so muddy...".
You can bet on that.
Anybody who watches Frontline on PBS has already seen a lengthy and incredibly in-depth story about the future of xenotransplantation.
The scary part about pig-to-human transplants is the possibility of humans contracting pig viruses through xenotransplants that could mutate and cause widespread disease. Transplant patients have to take medications that suppress their immune systems so their bodies won't reject their new organs. Thus, the possibility of cross-species disease propagation is very real and very scary.
Pigs being bred for transplantation are currently birthed by caesarian section directly into a bath of iodine and kept in a sterile environment from then on. But even so, it's unlikely that such animals are 100% free of pathogens. Anyone who receives a pig organ should understand that they will be considered as much of a disease threat as if they were HIV-positive for the rest of their lives. They are not to have unprotected sex and should not have children.
It's scary stuff and not to be taken lightly.
This could be a great breakthrough. There are currently long lists for organ transplants, as there are not enough donors for the demand.
However, it must be proven that this works, as they are working on. I wish them luck, this could be a wonderful thing.
to be modified to produce human organs. Think of the possibilities for the penis enlargement industry. Think about the spam ...
"Get a Donkey Dick! Send $99.99 to www.donkeydick.ru ..
I thought it was funny :(
There is no spoon or sig.
A lot of people who would be getting these transplants are likely past child bearing age anyway, and would not have an exponential effect on population growth. And since they probably already reproduced, they don't have any evolutionary effect either.
The kids are usually given higher priority when it comes to getting human organs now (the have their whole lives ahead of them... and all that) and I see no reason for that to change, since the pig organs will probably never be as good as the real thing.
All this will do is make it so the older folks who were dying without organs before can get transplants and watch their grandkids with the human organs in 'em play in the back yard...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
But what is the length of a pig's tool?
Now if they could get a donkey's tool, that would be impressive...
Pig heart valves. They've been put in human hearts for years when human heart valves have been destroyed by disease. My grandmother had several pig valves put in many years ago. Nothing new here.
I'm pretty skeptical of this one myself. One sugar isn't all that's going to trigger an immune reaction to cause graft rejection. The MHC molecules are perhaps the biggest known issue, given that the pig has very different MHC molecules than a human. Hell, even different humans have different MHC molecules, which is why kidney donors should be related to the receiver.
While sugars do play a role in cell recognition, it's not nearly so important in graft rejection because graft rejection is mediated by the immune system, which focuses more on protein-protein interactions. Knocking out a sugar might help with graft rejection (this seems dubious to me) but seriously... don't you think that a pig should be producing plenty of other molecules with slightly different epitopes to be recognized by human antibodies?
At the most, I'd imagine that this would delay acute graft rejection in a very well done transplant. But I still think immunosuppression, very likely over the remainder of the patient's life, would be necessary.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
The whole point is that the products of a non-kosher animal must not enter your body. This obviously includes eating, but also applies to transplants.
If I had a heart transplant from a pig, would I qualify as a non-kosher animal?
"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them." -- George H. W. Bush
Comment removed based on user account deletion
the possibility of cross-species disease propagation is very real and very scary.
Why? We've been living with and eating these creatures for millenia. (We've probably been having sex with them for the same time, sick as the concept may be.) Many farmers have probably got pigs blood in open wounds - they tend not to be squeamish when killing animals. If there's a disease that pigs carry that humans haven't already developed at least partial immunity to, then it is extraordinarily hard to catch.
They are not to have unprotected sex and should not have children.
Um, why? Why do we think that those will be the primary means of transmission? If a new disease does come out of the woodwork, it seems that any mode of transmission may be used.
if someone wants to die rather than receive medical aid, then..well, that's their perogative.
Keep in mind, though, those ancient laws were to -protect- their adherants, since suitable technology for safely perserving the meats had not been invented. Basic memetics. Can't pass on the ideas if all your followers are dead. If you trace back the relegious percicution of homosexuality, you find its the same sort of thing, tight reproductive rules had to be formed to keep the dwindling population alive in the face of persecution.
The ultimate irony is that those rules now cause the descendents of those same people to persecute others.
But I digress. If the codes of ethics can't adapt to future circumstances, the memeplex dies as surely as a maladapted organism dies in the environment. Human innovation is accellerating beyond the knee of the exponential curve, its going to be a rough transition, and those of us who know how to bend rather than break will be the ones left.
I can understand the medical benefits of taking organs from pigs and putting them into people... but if we keep doing this... won't we eventually run out of politicians and CEOs?
There is a lot of data out there to suggest that alcohol in moderation is good.
quick search
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
.. a real life Police Chief Wiggum!
Live web cams
People have been getting pig heart valves for years, does all this apply to them?
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
How is this any different than what is currently happening?
How is this any different than a current human disease mutating to become more virulent? Or perhaps simply virulent? HIV didn't spring from SIV because of some transplant, it happened in the wild. The Hong Kong strain of influenza that caused such a scare didn't happen because of human meddling, it happened in the wild.
These things happen in nature, and are rare there, even when all these pathogens have the opportunity to do things like coinfect cells, swap genes, and mutate like crazy. What makes you think that it's so likely as to happen simply due to a transplant?
The problem, as you mention, is immunosuppression, which prevents the body from fighting off any infection that could get in to their transplant. The point of research like this (if it even works, that remains to be seen) is that you don't have to fully immunosuppress, if at all. I'm confident that one day short term immunosuppression will be enough for most transplants, and these people will be able to live normal, healthy lives. Then the chance of this happening drops even further, to the point where all the scaremongering over mutation becomes pointless. Mutations happen, you can't stop them, but that doesn't mean they're really more likely or more dangerous due to science.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Hmm, eyes like an eagle, heart of an ox, ears of an owl and feet of a cheetah might not be metaphors in the future.
not only would the organs not be kosher, its nice to see old stuff coming back around for a 2nd pass
borrrrrring
in there is a joke or two about 'Deliverance'...
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
"No, it's my desert! The Crusaders kicked us out!"
with this advance and the womb transplants in the news the other day, we could finally have pigs as children.
"Who knows, we may make that mark on your driver's license obsolete after all."
I thought it was pigs that would be doing the... Oh.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
To me, the most surprising part of the CIA report was this: In Florida, reknown for its elderly population, 18.5% of the population is over the age of 65. Italy as a whole will reach this same 18.5% in 2003, joined by Japan in 2005, and Germany in 2006. France follows in 2016, and the US as a whole reaches 18.5% in 2023. I assume a big reason for the US staying younger for longer will be immigration. I wonder when "white" people will no longer be more than 50% of the US.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
How boring!
Ahem.
BRING ON THE LUDDITES!
Thank you. That is all.
It's been a long time.
Wasn't retirement age originally chosen to be average life expectancy plus one year? They have it easy now! Seeing as average life expectancy for woman in some rich countries has now exceeded 80 years, it's obvious why coupled with falling fertility rates that the burden on the employed is getting heavier.
... since us guys are pigs anyway, there should be minimal compatibility issues. :)
"Wow, you're like some kind of superhero able to ward off happiness and success at every turn."
-- Ryan Stiles
... my girlfriend will be somewhat correct when she calls me a pig.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
Think about it.
-- My Weblog.
Anyone remember John Goodman's character in The Big Lebowski?
"Saturday, Donny, is shabbas, the Jewish day of rest. That means I don't work, I don't drive a car, I don't fucking ride in a car, I don't handle money, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as shit don't fucking roll!"
So this could be up in the air for all we know.
Screw that... Seriously.
Born and raised knowing that one day, when the person you were cloned from, who smokes, eats fatty foods excessively, and never exercises, dies, that you will have to give up your heart, eyes, lungs etc, just so the person will live...
Two many issues were this would not be acceptable.. If you did clone yourself at birth for organs, then you damn well better not let the general public find out.
As for the pigs (trying to stay on topic), Seems that PETA will have a feel day with this, although if we eventually find a way to make synthetic hearts and make artificial hearts that last more than a year or two, then using pigs would not be so bad.
In conclusion, this issue of using animals for human benefit is a hard issue to deal with, but we can't ignore the research that one day may save thousands of lives.
DamN! forgot to post AC!!!
| - | - |
Just what we need is another vector for animal diseases to pass over into humans.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
This is an awful idea. Other posters have pointed out how this makes it far easier for viral and bacterial diseases to leap across the species barrier, but there's a good story about it that they may not know.
In The Coming Plague , Laurie Garrett recounts how the primate supply facility that supplied the baboon whose heart was transplanted into Baby Fae was horrified when they learned what was done with it. They had not known that the ape was to be used as a transplant donor, and would have refused had they know. Seems the ape in question was infected with cytomegalovirus, simian AIDS, and a variety of other diseases that generally don't infect humans, but might if you take the organ out of the ape and stick it in a person.
Later, she tells of a virus carried by a certain species of monkey. It's harmless to that monkey, but readily infects another species which shares habitat with the first. Upon infection, it causes a variety of leukemias and lymphomas so widespread and virulent that death frequently occurs in mere weeks.
And it's airborne.
Man, I'm not sure if any pigs carry anything even near so nasty, but I can't think of a worse thing to be doing. Research money spent for this purpose would be far, far better spent on learning how to grow fresh, healthy, transplantable human organs.
Sorry, it was just sooo begging to be posted.
At last, my chance for a brain transplant. It will only help my karma.
Anybody can work under ideal circumstances. -- Jeff K. (January 4, 2001)
Where I work, this would not be considered by any of us a trans-species transplant if it were for our boss.
I saw the word usage while skimming the blurb and my brain swapped it for the word "sausage". More appropriate, but not correct.
pigs and other animals are already the sources for many of our horrible diseases. We already got most of them from living so close to them.
What?
less is more and more is less...
DUH!!!
He is one ugly sonofapatak.
Bay of pigs cluster? Maybe?
I read about pig wings somewhere. they used organic tissue to make live wings. . ick
That's probably overstated, but what do you expect from the media? They're talking about Pig Endogenous Retroviruses (PERVS), which are non-transmitted pseudoviruses embedded in the pig genome. The worry was that the new (human) environment might cause PERVS to become active and infect the patient. However, BioTransplant has bred a line of PERV free pigs that they can now clone.
Xenotransplantation - How Bad Science and Big Business Put the World at Risk from Viral Pandemics.
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/xeno.php
A working pancreas would be nice -- or even cloning Islet cells for transplant into Type I diabetics. Let's do it soon. We are already injecting transplanted human Islet cells, but that requires a lifelong cocktail of immunosuppressants to prevent rejection.
Is this sig nificant?
Another topic to file under "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should." First, I wouldn't use a religious argument against it's use, because it mainly applies to their consumption and the infested environments pigs live in regularly. I figure pigs marked for "harvesting" would have grow up in a relatively sterile environment. The cross species disease thing is a worry, however. Whee, you can transplant ape hearts. I guess. And pig valves. Yay. But the entire process reminds me of lazer eye surgery to some extent and it shakey beginnings. Sure, you were promised 20/20, but more often than not one wasn't told of the very risky side effects that could result. Never heard much about those, at least not as much as you probably should have. Piggly trnasplant endorcements remind me of this very issue...
"We can rebuild him. Stronger. Faster. And he'll taste like a BLT, too!"
You need a FREE iPod Nano
You are talking about Porcine Endogenous Retro Virus (PERV).
4 /5 /1042
The answer is that we have actually been using pigs for Xenotransplantation for a very long time: my Grandfather had a pig-valve in his heart, and Jim Finn has fetal pig brain cells in his brain, along with 12 other people, which has (effectively) halted his parkinsons disease, and reversed most of the symptoms (he can work on his car himself now, when before he was reduced from crawling from room to room on his elbows).
Both of these surgeries are vintage 1980's/1990's, and many heart-vavle operations predate that time period, since we did not have mechanical replacements designed until more recently.
The Russians have also been using pig liver cells to treat incurable, and otherwise fatal hepatitus and liver cancer cases, successfully.
In all cases, the protocols require that the person remain sexually inactive in order to avoid the risk of transmitting PERV human-to-human.
However, all testing for the past two decades has indicated that PERV is not transmissable to humans from transplanted tissue: out of the many hundreds of porcine xenotransplant recipients, not a single one tests positive for PERV anywhere but the transplanted porcine cells themselves.
If you are up for a lot of reading, Jim Finn's story (in short form) with a lot of links is available at:
http://tv.carlton.com/organfarm/jim.jhtml
See also Jim's own online journal:
http://www.geocities.com/jimcfinn/index.html
Here is the medical writeup of Jim and the 12 other patients in the journal "Neurology":
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/5
-- Terry
You, my dear sir, ought be shot. Wait. Shooting's too good for you...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Read their post:
I was stating that at the time that humans began to live as societies the survival priorities changed.
Next time, read the thread before point out my mistakes.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Clearly, these humans are destined for pig transplants in the next life!
DROS - Open-Source Robot Software
Why? We've been living with and eating these creatures for millenia.
His point was, that if we start implanting pig-grown organs into humans, then the human (by virtue of being part-pig now) would become at least partly susceptible to the same diseases that can infect pigs.
I just wanted to mention that the anti-rejection drugs have improved a great deal even in the last few years. The newer treatments are generally not so bad. On my regimen the worst I've seen so far has been minor digestive problems that have cleared up after a few days. As usual the worst side effect is really the main effect - the weakening of your immune system - but even still, the newer drugs have a more targeted effect, and weaken the immune system less.
I've never been diabetic so I can't say whether it's better or worse than insulin-dependent diabetes though.
Nothing new...
But again, religions are not particularly noted for evolving...
= a pig to cop transplant
The pig may differ with the term "donate"!
The animal lovers should donate their body organs to keep animals alive after I've turned cow and pig livers and giblets into delicate tasting cracker spreads.
Booyah!
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
I had an organ Oink OINK that was once in a pig transfererd OINK to my body. So far Oink Oink Oink I couldn't be any happier.
I just spent 10 days in China travelling around with my Dad visiting pig intestine workshops. Basically what they do is take the raw intestine and turn it into a usable casing for things like sausage and brats. However, a very important drug, which is used in practically every operation performed in the world, is pulled out of this process... Heparin. So why not have them give us other things too.
Anybody want a peanut?
"hasn't been mentioned"? Even the short article that this discussion is linked to includes this statement, "Several significant problems need to be overcome before xenotransplantation can be attempted in humans, particularly the danger that pig viruses might cross the species barrier and create a new disease. " Yes, it is a concern, but nobody's hiding it. And the sky is not falling.
It also occurs to me that if one was drowning, yelling "Help! I'm drowning and I lost my bikini top" would probably be m
Who says religions don't evolve?
Read my above post that comments how pig organs are considered acceptable transplants to Muslims, since they save lives.
There's an earlier thread on this page saying how Jews and Muslims can have transplants, so the parent arguement doesn't really hold much water...
Sorry, I was talking about the discussion threads here, not the article itself. However, the article was far too short and superfluous to truly address the ethical and epidemiological repercussions.
...you think you just read "genetically modified cloned pigs which claim they may eventually be able to donate their organs to humans..."
That'd have been much more interesting.
So if i get my foot choped of can i get a pigs hoof trasplated in its place.
I dont see how this is a step forward... probably more of a stumble. boom.. boom..
So when are we going to have human organs for pigs? Hey, they gotta live too!
Does something like this also account for horse transplants or will I have to give up the transplant from a stallion that I was thinking of?
A friend of mine (Jewish herself) died of lung cancer because the ideal donor's family (other Jews) would not let the doctors take away major organs of their son for religious reasons - something to do with not messing around with the body before laying it to rest, definitely not without some major organs.
Reminds me of a story I just read on my palm, an older story by H.G. Wells. You can download it free at memoware for free.
M@
Krispy Cream is people
Ummmm.. I'll bet that most farmers are not taking immuno-superssives though and that makes a difference. A farmer's immune systems can fight off the animal disease. A transplant recipiants will probably not be able to because of the drugs they have to take to prevent rejection of the organ.
I've watched just enough pr0n to know that I don't want parts made from the other white meat.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
Can't wait for the religious factions to begin to scream about this one!
Yeah just like cow pox. Oh wait... cow pox was the first ever vaccination (vacca is the latin word for cow) and because of it smallpox only exists in 2 places in the world (frozen in Atlanta and in Moscow). We've been around animals like pigs and cows for so long that the risk of getting a new disease from them is very slim. The risk of a patient rejecting the organ is a major concern however. But I guess if you need a new heart you may be willing to take that chance.
"Follow your Bliss." -- Joseph Campbell
ok
why cant they just say transgenic pigs ?
(or arn't the slashdot crowd able to understand technical terms)
if you really wanted to go after this and you had money (like a drug company) then you would use Bonobo's because they are much closer to humans and the the organs are the right size (the primary reason to use pigs is that the organs are the right size )
whatever your postion on this dont think its not going to happen it is
(drug companys have to much to gain)
lets keep it in the open and monitor it rather than banning it and leting the drug companies move to a nation which will turn a blind eye and selling it on there (to have the op you fly to chad and pay your money then fly back to the country which banned it)
basically the Biological people screwed themselves by allowing patents on genetic sequences and had to get a non profit group do the human genome so that could not be patented lets not allow that to happen in software
regards
John Jones
A free honey-glazed ham with every heart transplant!
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
Now we can harvest organs from Jesse Helms, and give them to a black, gay, jewish immigrant who needs them.
Born and raised knowing that one day, when the person you were cloned from, who smokes, eats fatty foods excessively, and never exercises, dies, that you will have to give up your heart, eyes, lungs etc, just so the person will live...
Can you diagram that sentence? If not, it's too complex. Also, it's not even a sentence, it's a clause. There's no subject or verb. Adding "Can you imagine being" to the beginning of it would make it complete, but it would still be unwieldy. Perhaps putting the "who smokes... and never exercises" phrase in parentheses would help.
Two many issues were this would not be acceptable..
That should read too many issues where this would not be acceptable. Why did you put two (note that "two" is the number 2) periods at the end of the sentence? If you meant to imply that there was more to say, the ellipsis mark is three periods.
As for the pigs (trying to stay on topic), Seems that PETA will have a feel day with this...
You mean "field day", and you don't need to capitalize "seems" in the middle of the sentence. Notice also the proper use of the ellipsis (...) where I did not quote your entire sentence.
My suggestion would be Horses, since they are not haram/non-kosher in any religion. Or dogs.
The reason pigs are being used is because their anatomy is very similar to human anatomy. This is also why high school biology classes dissect fetal pigs (at least, mine did, that may not be common any more). Horses and dogs probably wouldn't work - in particular, dog parts seem likely to be too small.
If there were another animal equally appropriate for the task and kosher as well, don't you think it would have been chosen instead?
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
come genetically modified cloned pigs which they claim may eventually be able to donate their organs to humans for transplant usage.
How do you like that. The porcine genus evolves the ability to speak, and the first thing they say is how eager they are to donate their own organs to help us out. After all the things we've done to them, it kinda gets you right here, don't it?
At a press conference, Jack Valenti and Hilary Rosen confirmed the sudden career change. "Really, it's not all that different from our former work" insisted Valenti, whose name will change to 'P0174' on Monday. "Spread filth, hoard garbage, frighten the timid, I'd say we've got as much experience as Steve Balmer." Rosen mentioned that transplantation of cloned organs would require agreement to monthly licensing fees, but insisted that cloning was not a DMCA prohibited procedure for circumventing entropy.
Jews are pigs? Goys aren't human? Who is this Rabbi Kikelstein character...
Maybe some Jews will refuse a pig implant. History has shown that the Jewish people are, pretty resourceful though, and I don't think most of them would be dumb enough to turn down down life saving treatment, unless they happen to be suicidal. If there's a religious issue, I'm confident they'll find a way around it. Is a genetically engineered pig still a pig?
The reason pigs are being used is because their anatomy is very similar to human anatomy.
Yeah. I'm not a vet or anything, but aren't horses 3 or 4 times as big as a human being? Wouldn't a horses's heart be about as big as my head?
Hey, I've got an idea, how about transplants from elephants? Finally a profitable way to keep them off the endagered list!
That's an interesting point - as far as I know, the religious prohibitions specify EATING "non-Kosher" critters as bad. Wonder how they'll come down on "non-foodular" uses of the critters...
Though given that I occasionally hear them referred to as "unclean" in this context, I suppose it's unlikely that organ transplants will be treated any better than food...
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
No more going to jail for cannibalism. You can grow your own human tissue and eat it with a side of eggs for breakfast.
Is there a moderator value of "6 and twisted" yet...? LOL
Here are some Russian porcine xenotransplantation references; this is not a complete set of references, so you will have to do some searching on your own:
i /961547.ht m
,K Kojima, Y Karasawa, T Kohsaki, Y Iida, M Makuuchi (Japan) 130
r ga nfarm/
Islets of langerhan (treatment of type I diabetes):
http://www.islet.org/41.htm
Liver xenotransplants (company involved in study):
http://www.novartis.com/
Bioartificial Liver in vivo (Dutch):
http://www.cordis.lu/tmr/src/grants/fmb
Suggested search terms:
russia liver xenotransplant
dutch porcine hepatocytes
russia porcine hepatocytes
Tiny bibliography:
Reversal of acute liver failure by xenografts of microencapsulated porcine hepatocytes Z Du, T Li, GM Shu, JC Song, AM Sun (Canada) 122
Experimental studies on hepatic support device using heterogeneous alive animal to substitute failed liver N Cui, N Cui, J Wang, Q Fu, H Cui, J Feng (China) 128
Development of xenogeneic direct hemoperfusion method for bioartificial liver K Naruse, Y Sakai, D Endoh, J Shindoh
Postoperative liver failure successfully treated by hepatic arterial infusion of prostaglandin E1 (PGE1) and aperesis therapy Y Asanuma, T Sato, O Yasui, T Kurokawa, K Koyama (Japan) 120
Precrinical Study of a Hybrid Artificial Liver Support System J Fukuda, K Okamura, R Sakiyama, K Nakazawa, H Ijima, Y Yamashita, M Shimada, K Shirabe, S Tanaka, E Tsujita, K Sugimachi, K Funatsu (Japan) 123
Development of a hybrid bioartificial liver using hepatocytes entrapped in a basement membrane matrix M Nagaki, K Miki, Yl Kim, T Naiki, A Sugiyama, H Moriwaki (Japan) 127
See also:
Frontline: Organ Farm, part 2
Program #1913
Original Airdate: April 3, 2001
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/o
"Although organ transplants cannot be performed in the U.S., two people have had their lives saved by organs from a humanized transgenic pig. Both were treated at the Baylor University Medical Center in Dallas, Texas. The first was 20-year-old Rob Pennington. He was an emergency admission for liver failure in the autumn of 1997, just weeks before such experiments were halted by the FDA."
If this is *specifically* for liver cancer, see also:
http://www.mad-cow.org/UKGMO/GMO_news14.html
19 Jun 00 - GMO - Tests on GM 'missiles' to target cancer cells
Suggested search terms:
"David Kerr" liver cancer
Clinical trials only, at this point; so far 200 patients have been treated in the UK using a genetically modified retrovirus. This is probably a better bet at this point than a xenotransplant, for this *specific* problem.
-- Terry
actual, when it come down to life and death, most of those rules can be set aside.
however, I get this from my Jewish froms and IANAR(I am not a rabii).
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
What concerns me most is that if you have cloned organs in your body from animals like pigs or cows or whatever then, will you also have to watch what you consume and be careful that you don't get to close to animals that are sick?
When shit hits the fan get some of these https://youtu.be/pY-GncsZ-UE
I don't want to seem unsympathetic to you and your family. Your grandmother is experiencing a terribly reduced quality of life? You suspect she is being kept alive against her will? That is truly awful.
But humans made the decision to keep her alive. I believe it is a mistake to blame science for this. Her children and other relatives should not be feeling like helpless victims here. Her doctors are not modern shaman, whose suggestions you have to take. If they act that way, if they are playing god, you, her relatives, should challenge them, and keep challenging them.
We face the same kind of decisions, around xeno-transplants, as a society, as your family faces with your grandmother. If we believe in democracy, it is time to be really diligent about keeping our selves informed. And we have to be prepared to explore our values, and what we believe in, and speak up once we have figured it out.
Right, that's what i'm talking about. I wasn't commenting on any religion as a whole, merely the relegious views being espoused by the person i was replying to.
Anyhow, yeah, read your post, sounds pretty sensible to me.
As someone who works in immunology, I think I can address a few of the points people have been raising. Proteins vs. One Sugar: This is the sugar that determines blood type (A,B,AB,O in people). If you get a blood transfusion from the wrong donor type you will have a severe reaction that is not prevented by anti-rejection drugs. So basically they have made the pigs Type O (universal donor) by removing the equivalent pig sugar. You would still need anti-rejection drugs to block other types of rejection. PERV (porcine endogenous retroviruses): The concern that xenotransplants could expose people to new viruses is hypothetical but real. The strongest evidence against PERV being a problem is that for many years insulin was made from pigs and injected into people and there is no evidence that any new viruses have come into the human population due to this practice. Rapid international air travel probably poses the greatest risk for helping the spread of new or rare viruses.
thank you