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Convert Unneeded VRAM Into A Storage Device

Pawel Kot writes "Have you ever thought why does your graphics card has so much memory? Do You think you have not enough RAM or awfully slow swap file? Do you need fast ram-disk or diskless machine? Go for it! Take one of these cheap 128MB graphics cards and enjoy the speed. Michal Schulz wrote a good description on how to take the advantage of not used video card memory."

239 comments

  1. FP!!!! by CommandLineGuy · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Bwahahahahahaha!

    --
    [Of course it's client-server; it runs on a LAN]
    1. Re:FP!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Jake,

      I still think getting that REO Speedwagon tatoo was a bad idea. First of all, it's way too garish, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Second, it's so far down on your forearm that you're going to have to wear long-sleeved shirts to work from now on.

      You really have to watch what you do when you've been drinking, man.

  2. I can't help but think.... by Julius+X · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't this a bit wasteful? I mean you can buy 128mb of memory for a LOT cheaper than one of those "ultra cheap 128mb graphics cards".

    I'll stick with buying RAM and using my graphics card for what it was designed for. Besides...this only applies to X users anyway.

    --

    -Julius X
    remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
    1. Re:I can't help but think.... by trayl · · Score: 1

      It's art irony and hacking in one....

      Rock on :)

    2. Re:I can't help but think.... by garcia · · Score: 2

      if people are going to have a computer come w/a video card that has 64mb of VRAM or they have only part time need for VRAM then they can use this as a fast alternative to physical space for swap.

    3. Re:I can't help but think.... by deft · · Score: 3

      i think this technique is for the geel of it, not really for the practicality.

      its one of those mountains geeks climb because its there.

      --

      There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
    4. Re:I can't help but think.... by PD · · Score: 2

      The art would be improved if there was some way to use the memory as a display buffer AND as a disk. I think it might look pretty neat to watch a grep -r work on that puppy.

    5. Re:I can't help but think.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What if all banks or the memory addressable by the controller are filled? This is a nifty little solution. I currently have a slightly older machine that is maxed with 768 megs of PC133 memory (3 banks, max support 256 per bank).

      It's currently being employed as a database and fileserver. There is a possible project coming up where the database will be quite a bit larger--768 will probably be used up--but this is not really essential. A ramdisk may be necessary. I could go out and buy a new machine, but I don't have to. I could use this fun method. This is a nifty solution for a ramdisk.

      Are there any PCI cards on the market that are made just for this purpose? e.g. not a video card, but just a PCI card with DDR or DIMM banks and maybe a controller (not talking about those cpu/dimm pci machine on a card setups).

    6. Re:I can't help but think.... by Istealmymusic · · Score: 1

      Have you checked Pricewatch? In my experience videocard prices fall faster than RAM, especially VRAM. Not to mention the fact that being on an PCI-X bus (64-bit 66MHz instead of the traditional 32-bit 33MHz) more than doubles your memory bandwidth compared to conventional SDR. Run some benchmarks, then we'll talk.

      --
      "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
    7. Re:I can't help but think.... by jareds · · Score: 4, Informative

      Besides...this only applies to X users anyway.

      That's not true. You don't need to use X to do this, you just need a video card. In fact, if you're just using the machine in console mode, you may as well use your video memory for swap or something.

    8. Re:I can't help but think.... by Istealmymusic · · Score: 1

      Word. I would love to fire up an Xvnc in monochrome mode and crunch away at Life32. Who needs DirectX 8 now, Microsoft? :)

      --
      "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
    9. Re:I can't help but think.... by Qrlx · · Score: 1

      Well, I have 128 MB graphics card running at 350 MHz or something. What I would like to do is use that ram and idle cycles to work on folding@home or something like that.

      There has to be some kind of seti-style challenge which could be optimized for the types of calculations that a good graphics card does. Anyone?

    10. Re:I can't help but think.... by jareds · · Score: 1

      The art would be improved if there was some way to use the memory as a display buffer AND as a disk. I think it might look pretty neat to watch a grep -r work on that puppy.

      Reading from a display buffer doesn't affect what you see, so nothing would visibly happen during the grep.

    11. Re:I can't help but think.... by JabberWokky · · Score: 2
      Reading from a display buffer doesn't affect what you see, so nothing would visibly happen during the grep.

      One good pedantic answer deserves another:

      If the inode table were onscreen, the "last access" date would be getting reset all over the place.

      (Incidently, I used to run programs on the Apple ][ like this - flip over to hgr or gr and watch them execute).

      --
      Evan (no reference)

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    12. Re:I can't help but think.... by Istealmymusic · · Score: 4, Funny
      Not only in console mode, but I can't help but think of uses in headless boxes i.e. servers. Thanks to this article, I might have just found a use for the 1 AGP and 7 spare PCI slots on my fileserver...now I just need to find 8 128MB video cards, and I'll have a 1GB VRAM! Combined with three 1GB DDR sticks, one can now finally max out the Pentium architecture's limitation of 4GB addressable RAM.

      Next week: Using the new fangled chipped-and-removable 4MB CMOS ICs (as found in Gigabyte's dual BIOS) to trade files with your friends in lieu of floppy diskettes. Nevermind the price tag.

      --
      "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
    13. Re:I can't help but think.... by mozumder · · Score: 1

      It's not that useless. I have 1GB RDRAM and a cheap 128MB ATI Radeon 8500 Video card. I don't use the ATI card for any 3-D work while running linux (not yet anyways) and could use that 128 MB space for something else. My EDA processes routinely go over that 1GB memory limit and swaps all the time.

      Actually, what could also be useful is if the GPU could be used as a co-processor for other tasks (besides the obvious "can render 3-D graphics" task..). Maybe I could use it to run TOP or something else. It would be interesting to see if anyone can setup a generic C compiler for the pixel/vertex shader and use that as a co-processor here. 20GB/sec bandwith on the GPU could be used here for some really fast SED or AWK or PERL script... :)

    14. Re:I can't help but think.... by rmohr02 · · Score: 2

      I'd love to know that as well--I'd never thought of that. I can't find RAM that'll fit in my system right now. Supposedly my system is using PC2100 DIMM RDRAM, but when I buy that it doesn't seem to fit. A PCI card like you mention would work nicely to allow for multiple types of RAM. The only problem I foresee is that PCI cards are kind of close together and there might not be room to put extra RAM in either the top or bottom of the card. I'm sure there are ways to work around this though.

    15. Re:I can't help but think.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I don't understand searching Google, sorry. Anyone else?

    16. Re:I can't help but think.... by friscolr · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Isn't this a bit wasteful? I mean you can buy 128mb of memory for a LOT cheaper than one of those "ultra cheap 128mb graphics cards".

      sometimes we get servers thrown in our laps that already have gfx cards which aren't needed. my last Sun came with 128mb video card plus an onboard 64mb card. i don't use either one since i use serial console on the thing.

      I'm working on cd's that will install themselves into memory filesystems. Problem is, to get a decent set of apps i need a lot of memory. Using vram would be very nice, maybe not for a machine that i would spec out since i'd buy it with enough RAM, but what about borrowing/hijacking machines? Imagine using this cd to go to library, boot computer from cd, cd ejects (so there's no trace of you since upon reboot, mem is wiped), you walk on. what you left behind: a machine running gnutella and using memory file systems to store files on. getting more space from the vram would be essential.

    17. Re:I can't help but think.... by WasterDave · · Score: 2

      No, this is a great idea. My main machine dual boots, Linux for work, 98se for games. Since I use the XFree nv driver, there's a bit chunk of memory in my video card that's doing nothing. Hey, shit, most of my video card is doing nothing but I digress.

      So I can swap onto it. Or use it for /tmp or something. Great idea.

      BTW, geek challenge: Use opengl2 shader instructions to do something useful other than accelerate games - bit parallel math cruches for compression video, say. Or crack DES3.

      Dave

      --
      I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
    18. Re:I can't help but think.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, smartass, what did you find on google?

    19. Re:I can't help but think.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you such an ass, people who have these fucking cards lying around with 128 mb of ram they're never going to use would benefit from this, not some stupid ass like you. Fuck off and die faggot.

    20. Re:I can't help but think.... by damiam · · Score: 1

      Good luck finding a PCI video card with 128MB of RAM.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    21. Re:I can't help but think.... by _Bean_ · · Score: 1

      I'm reasonably sure that there is no such thing as pc2100 rambus and that RDRAM comes in RIMMs not DIMMs.
      Perhaps you have DDR-RAM?

    22. Re:I can't help but think.... by Elbereth · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      That's not 'interesting'. That's illegal and stupid.

      Slashdot sucks.

    23. Re:I can't help but think.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You would use this on a production server? At least, your message implies a database server using over 768 megs of ram would be production of some sort. Why not just shell out the $75 and get a newer motherboard that supports 512MB sdram dimms in each slot?

    24. Re:I can't help but think.... by Nameles · · Score: 1

      Pricewatch lists a few, as well as 256mb ones, but those are virtual texture ones.

    25. Re:I can't help but think.... by friscolr · · Score: 1

      yup, something that has valid applications also has illegal applications. wow.

    26. Re:I can't help but think.... by addaon · · Score: 2

      Pentium architecture's limit is 64GB.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    27. Re:I can't help but think.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i bet the motherboard does support more. read the manual first. just buy new ram. much cheaper than a whole new system or even a whole new motherboard + new ram.

    28. Re:I can't help but think.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not true. it can work in a psuedo "64-bit" - ish method, but that's still capped at 48 bits. it's dumb, but at least true 64 bit stuff is already out.

    29. Re:I can't help but think.... by Datafage · · Score: 1

      The Pentium architecture is capable of running machines with up to 64GB. However, it still has an adressable limit of 4GB, that is the maximum amount any one process can use.

      --

      Nicotine free Amish .sig.

    30. Re:I can't help but think.... by Alsee · · Score: 2

      That's not 'interesting'. That's illegal and stupid.

      No, it isn't.
      Booting a publicly accessible computer from a CD is not illegal, and running gnutella is not illegal.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    31. Re:I can't help but think.... by rmohr02 · · Score: 2

      I was going from memory (no pun intended) so I might have messed up a little. I know it's RDRAM because a sticker on the RAM itself says so.

    32. Re:I can't help but think.... by Gossy · · Score: 2

      http://www.cenatek.com/ make rocket drives, sound like what you're after. They're PCI cards that are filled with up to 4GB (soon 8GB) of RAM per card.

      They even support Linux :)

    33. Re:I can't help but think.... by kzadot · · Score: 1

      Sounds like Knoppix

      But your one sounds interesting too. Is it specific to running gnutella? Why do you see that as a primary use for in memory filesystems?

      Gnutellas been sucking lateley though,...

    34. Re:I can't help but think.... by werschi · · Score: 1

      >Are there any PCI cards on the market that are made just for this purpose? e.g. not a video card, but just a PCI card with DDR or DIMM banks and maybe a controller (not talking about those cpu/dimm pci machine on a card setups).

      Yes, there is a PCI Card that acts as an Solid State IDE Disk: http://www.cenatek.com/product_rocketdrive.cfm

    35. Re:I can't help but think.... by Eccles · · Score: 1

      Isn't this a bit wasteful?

      No, it's an excuse to get your boss to buy you one of these high-end cards, instead of a TNT2 or something else ancient. "I need it to run compiles faster."

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
    36. Re:I can't help but think.... by Tycho · · Score: 1

      Why would I want to trade files with 4MB CMOS ICs when I can always trade files with those 640MB MO drives that everyone has? I mean come on I have three of those drives.

      --
      Impersonating Tycho from Penny Arcade since before there was a PA.
    37. Re:I can't help but think.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh, I have Intel SCB2 mobo and it supports 6 GB EDO RAM ... the theoretical limit is 64 GB for current pentiums.

    38. Re:I can't help but think.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about all of those businesses which buy PCs which are designed for gamers but only need 4 MBs VRAM for their business applications? Just for an example: Dell's current special has 128 MBs VRAM built-in so there isn't even the possibility of substituting a presumably cheaper (though now non-existant, if new?) 4 or 8 MB video card.

    39. Re:I can't help but think.... by Callamon · · Score: 1

      Hmmm.. Their pricing for the 4GB rocketdrive is $4000... A bit steep! BUT, you could just buy the 512MB version($799), and their 512MB-4GB upgrade ($500), and get the same thing (plus some extra SDRAM) for $1300..

    40. Re:I can't help but think.... by JerkBoB · · Score: 1
      Imagine using this cd to go to library, boot computer from cd, cd ejects (so there's no trace of you since upon reboot, mem is wiped), you walk on.

      Hopefully the admin(s) for those machines will have disabled boot from cdrom/floppy in BIOS and set a password on the BIOS.

      Anyone with half a brain who's ever run public machines does this, because monkeys like you like to screw with them.

      --
      A host is a host from coast to coast...
      Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
    41. Re:I can't help but think.... by scottj · · Score: 1

      It's too bad it's only a 32-bit 33MHz PCI card. A 64-bit 66MHz card would certainly seem to be a much more useful product.

      --
      .-.--
    42. Re:I can't help but think.... by addaon · · Score: 2

      64GB. 36 bit. Talking pentium here, not itanium.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    43. Re:I can't help but think.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because you wouldn't be shelling out just $75, now would you? You'd also have to purchase the new, higher capacity memory at least too. (Note the example given was fully populated--the board has 3, but if it were 4....most low end boards have 2 or 3, a few do have 4).

  3. that's great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I want to have sex with Pampers 6 on me oh yeah that makes me happy

  4. Dur... by Loligo · · Score: 5, Insightful


    If you're THAT low on memory, you're not likely to have a 128 meg video card.

    Or a 64 meg card, even.

    -l

    1. Re:Dur... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deep thinker, I see.

  5. Losers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Shove your video RAM up your stinking cornholes, you fat ugly hippies

  6. Wow! Useful AS! by Kragg · · Score: 5, Funny

    Cool! Finally I have somewhere to store my Quake 3 savegames - on the spare memory of my laptop's 16meg graphics card!

    Or maybe not...

    --
    If you can't see this, click here to enable sigs.
    1. Re:Wow! Useful AS! by thelinuxking · · Score: 2

      Yeah, it would be a great idea. I really like how when you would restart your computer, it automatically would remove all those disc cluttering save game files.

    2. Re:Wow! Useful AS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, except that quake 3 doesn't have any save game files - it's all stored in the config that's in use.

    3. Re:Wow! Useful AS! by Mawbid · · Score: 1
      Depending on what card you're using, you may need more than a soft boot to clear it.

      A couple of times after a crash and a soft reboot, X has started, set the video mode, and for a moment before it paints the screen for the first time, I saw what was displayed before the crash (minus a few lines at the top of the screen, which were garbled).

      This is with a GeForce 2 and nvidia drivers.

      I wonder if anyone can come up with a use for that. A filesystem in video ram could survive a crash, but so would a filesystem on disk. Maybe some application that needs more speed could use this?

      --
      Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
    4. Re:Wow! Useful AS! by Corrado · · Score: 2

      This sounds like a GREAT place to store a virus. It's just like the clock virus on the Amiga; it stored itself in the clock memory, thereby surviving reboots. Pretty cool stuff.

      Now all we need is some really cool hacker to write a neato virus for us... Any volunteers? :)

      --
      KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
    5. Re:Wow! Useful AS! by modecx · · Score: 1

      I've also expierienced this phenomenon. This used to happen often with a TNT2/Linux combo (Nvidia drivers as well), and also on my SGI O2. Always thought it was pretty odd...

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    6. Re:Wow! Useful AS! by Hes+Nikke · · Score: 1

      and i've seen it on an ATi Rage 128 - on a mac! upon initial reboot from crash, and i get a flash of my old desktop!

      i've even seen this on a cold boot!

      --
      Don't call me back. Give me a call back. Bye. So yeah. But bye our, well, but alright we are on a shirt this chill.
    7. Re:Wow! Useful AS! by modecx · · Score: 1

      Wow, guess it's much more common than I ever thought possible. It may be possible to use the VRAM for semi-reliable storage afterall. I'd still be very nervous about putting something important in there without a backup, though...

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
  7. ram cheap too... by prichardson · · Score: 1

    I think on a megabyte to megabyte basis, RAM is far cheaper than VRAM. This has a high coolness factor, but a very low usefulness factor. Unless all your memory slots are broken (like the ones in my old mothrboard)

    --
    Help I'm a rock.
    1. Re:ram cheap too... by ergo98 · · Score: 1

      While they use the term "VRAM", harkening back to the days when you could get a DRAM or VRAM equipped Virge 3D (the VRAMs were better, if only because they allowed for higher refresh rates at higher resolutions), I think they only mean "using the RAM on your video card as main system RAM", and of course most video cards come with DDR RAM these days.

    2. Re:ram cheap too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You HAVE GOT to be retarded. It's clearly useful to some people, dumbass.

  8. fp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    fp

  9. Chances are... by thelinuxking · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you HAVE a new 128 mb video card (which isn't that cheap!), you probably also have a fast processor and motherboard, and lots of memory anyway.

    I strongly doubt you would buy a fast processor with an agp motherboard (needed for the card), and desperately needed memory so badly, that you take from the 128 mb video card.

    1. Re:Chances are... by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

      Well there actually are some that are fairly cheap. They are just basic accelerators with minimal capabilites and a lot of RAM. Not sure why you'd want one, but you can get them for like $40-$50, made by SiS.

      Of course this is still more expensive than all RAM except for RDRAM (which is about the same price) so is still silly. And yes, most people who oen 128MB video cards own something like a GeForce 4 and can thereofr afford to back that up with plenty of system RAM.

    2. Re:Chances are... by superpeach · · Score: 2

      Who cares? its something to do while waiting for the next linux kernel release to appear. Oh, and it is nice for machines with which you dont use the graphics card at all (which came with one for some reason) - like those which just sit there being all firewally and only ever get poked by a serial console when things go bad.

    3. Re:Chances are... by adolf · · Score: 2

      Nevermind that 128 meg cards are not quite as cheap as the author alludes. If a man came up to you on the street and offered you a 64 or 128 megabyte DIMM, of proper type for your system, would you not take it home, plug it in, and enjoy it, all while being thankful for the most fortunate occasion?

      Not long ago, I built a new Athlon XP desktop box (Win98, non-taxing business apps and light browsing) with a 64 meg S3 card, with s-video and composite NTSC outputs, some motion compensation bullshit, and terrible 3D performance. My old V3 2000 smoked it on just about everything during a comparative burn-in session, with a K6-2.

      The V3 has 16 megs of RAM. The S3 has four times as much. And since it's nearly useless for anything OpenGL and it's driving a fixed 1024x768 LCD, it's never going to use more than 4 megs of that RAM for a framebuffer.

      I picked the S3 because it was -cheap-. Cheaper than 32meg nVidia cards, cheaper than off-brand Voodoo3 cards made in Korea with surplus, post-nVidia GPUs, cheaper than Trident, cheaper than a Riva128 or a 2 meg Matrox, or any of ATi's available offerings.

      I realize that S3 is dead, and will always be (thanks, SonicBlue - and I'll never have an empeg now, either). But the driver is stable, and the machine will be running the same install of 98 until some catastrophic hardware failure makes cause for something different. As long as it performs acceptably with IE's smooth scrolling features, and the wind-up start menu included with 98SE, all is golden.

      So, cheap&stable is the order of the day.

      If I were building a headless Linux box instead of a more interactive machine, I'd have chosen the same card. I reiterate: I could not find a cheaper AGP video card from any retailer that I was purchasing other items from. (gotta factor in shipping costs, yaknow...)

      Getting ~60 megs of really fucking fast swapspace -for free- sounds like a winner, to me. And if you still think it's a bad idea, search Slashdot for old discussions of using CompactFlash cards as swap. Talk about silly, expensive means of adding virtual RAM...

      I'd run something like this in a heartbeat on a headless machine, or one not destined for 3D work. Noone needs 16 megs, let alone 32, 64, or 128 just for a framebuffer. Might as well do something useful with it, even if it is slightly more expensive than an equal-capacity DIMM.

      It is, once again, free.

  10. anyone remember velvet jones.... eddie murphy snl? by deft · · Score: 2

    is it just me, but as i was trying to decipher the english in the post, i could just hear him saying, "Hi, have you ever thought why does your graphic card has so much memory?"

    i usually could care, but this post reads like ghetto yoda.

    --

    There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
  11. Next week on Slashdot... by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...How to use that "cheap" P4 as a, err, inexpensive coffee warmer.

    1. Re:Next week on Slashdot... by davidstrauss · · Score: 1

      An AMD processor would work much better. You could keep coffee hot (90 degrees C) without even burning up the processor core. See AMD's technical specifications.

    2. Re:Next week on Slashdot... by linuxhack · · Score: 1
      Hey, I've got one!

      Extreme watercooling (how to build a cheap water heater with that spare Athlon)

      no? how about...

      How to use that spare CD burner to build an etcher (etch trophies, metal ID tags, etc...)

      or maybe...

      How to use those old HDs to build a set of speakers (oops, that one has already been done...)


      Anyway, this mod gives me a great place to hide all my pr0n too! Oh, I'll only have about 120Megs? Nevermind...
    3. Re:Next week on Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > An AMD processor would work much better. You could keep coffee hot (90 degrees C) without even burning up the processor core. See AMD's technical specifications.

      Per those specs, 90C is the upper temp limit. So, if the coffee's at 90, the core's going to be a lot hotter.

    4. Re:Next week on Slashdot... by brunox · · Score: 1

      yeah. thats the spirit
      ****LOL****

    5. Re:Next week on Slashdot... by Com2Kid · · Score: 1

      How to use that spare CD burner to build an etcher (etch trophies, metal ID tags, etc...)

      Hrmmm, I know that it has been made to burn designs on to CDRs, close enough for ya? :-D

    6. Re:Next week on Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, I'll milk this one for all it's worth, I posted it on the Cappuccino PC thread too, but some people just don't realise that PC/coffee machine combos are out there.

  12. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you ever thought why is your grammar so bad? Do you think you have not enough school or awfully slow mind? Do Slashdot need better editing?

  13. No by .com+b4+.storm · · Score: 1

    Have you ever thought why does your graphics card has so much memory?

    No, I haven't. That's probably because I think in proper English. "Why does your graphics card has so much..."

    How 'bout this? "Have you ever thought, 'why does my graphics card have so much memory?'"

    --
    "Wow, you're like some kind of superhero able to ward off happiness and success at every turn."
    -- Ryan Stiles
    1. Re:No by Wumpus · · Score: 1

      "Why does your graphics card have so much..."

      Is probably better.

    2. Re:No by BurntHombre · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "Why does your graphics card have so much..."

      Is probably better.

      The best option, however, would be to not pick on the grammar skills of an English-as-a-second-language writer, unless you care to put your Polish language skills on display for us all.

    3. Re:No by linzeal · · Score: 0, Troll

      Vodka, vodka vodka catholic pope vodka potato.

    4. Re:No by Wumpus · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      You're absolutely right.

    5. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best option, however, would be to not pick on the grammar skills of an English-as-a-second-language writer

      That could be, but there's nothing wrong with picking on the grammar skills of the "editor" who could have corrected it before posting, nor is there anything wrong with suggesting a better rendering so as to improve the grammar skills of everyone involved.

      On that note, "Have you ever wondered why your graphics card has so much memory?" would probably be the most natural way of putting it.

    6. Re:No by .com+b4+.storm · · Score: 1

      I'm not picking on the person who originally submitted it, I'm picking on the Slashdot editors who posted it. The internet is an international community, yes, but Slashdot is an English-language site, and they should put some effort into making it not look like a POS thrown together by a couple of 14 year olds in their parents' basement. Especially if they want businesses to take them seriously enough to buy ads.

      --
      "Wow, you're like some kind of superhero able to ward off happiness and success at every turn."
      -- Ryan Stiles
    7. Re:No by Disevidence · · Score: 1

      While i understand that, this website uses english as its language, so its not entirely unreasonable to expect proper grammar.

      We all can't have our cake and eat it too.

      --
      Think nothing is impossible? Try slamming a revolving door.
    8. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >unless you care to put your Polish language
      >skills on display

      Why? I learned the right language the FIRST time.

    9. Re:No by Artemis · · Score: 1

      Considering the posts to this site are in English that minimizes the important of Polish language skills in /.

    10. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so its not entirely unreasonable to expect proper grammar

      it's not its.

    11. Re:No by netsharc · · Score: 1

      Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

      Are you sure you meant to post to slashdot?

      --
      What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
    12. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that, if one corrects another's grammar, one properly ought to use the *correct* usage. According to *Warriner's English Grammar and Composition* this would be:
      "... why has your graphics card so much..." Sound stupid? You bet. But there it is.

  14. Re:anyone remember velvet jones.... eddie murphy s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    .pl is POLAND. it's full of POLES. they don't speak ENGLISH in POLAND. (.pl is also PERL LIBRARY which is used in SHITTY WEBSITES like SLASHDOT to enable increased ASS FINGERING by SMELLY LINUX HIPPIES!)

  15. What the hell can I do with that? by flonker · · Score: 1, Redundant

    From the article, (slightly modified). My karma is capped anyway, so...

    What the hell can I do with that?

    Well, many things. When I was thinking about it, I have found two ways to use it. One of them is making any filesystem on that and mounting it somewhere, the other is more sophisticated:
    meehow:~# mkswap /dev/mtdblock0
    meehow:~# swapon /dev/mtdblock0

    Later on, more possibilities occur. You can use this methon in X11 terminals, to limit network bandwitch for example. During bootup such terminal would load kernel and compressed filesystem. The FS may be placed then on such mtdblock device and kernel may boot from it. Using console-only server with some kind of modern 32MB gfx card may use the vram as huge swap (which is way faster than swap on disk). New ideas are welcome :)

    1. Re:What the hell can I do with that? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 5, Informative

      VRAM can be read and written at the same time - at least on the video card. And it should be possible to use the video hardware to blit around chunks of memory very quickly. I wonder if there are any algorithms (apart from those to manipulate a bitmapped display) which could be specially coded to take advantage of this hardware?

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    2. Re:What the hell can I do with that? by not_cub · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Yes there are. I attempted to write a program to find the weak Schur numbers using this (I needed to bitshift bit arrays larger than 32-bits a lot, and I figured a way that a video card could do this well, especially on this problem). The real problem with this approach was the bandwidth back to the processor mentioned in a slashdot article not so long ago. Most consumer video cards just aren't designed to send data back to the processor fast.

      not_cub

      --
      q='echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"';s=\';b=\\;echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"
    3. Re:What the hell can I do with that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you can't read and write to this type of VRAM at the same time. Here VRAM means only "memory of the video board", as opposed to an old type of memory (like FPM or EDO) called VRAM that you could read and write at the same time, but that it's not used anymore.

    4. Re:What the hell can I do with that? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      So you're telling me that a card with '64Mbyte VRAM' doesn't actually have VRAM? I'm so disillusioned :-(.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  16. Don't knock it, it's still a cool hack. by Ted_Green · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So what if it's cheaper to buy ram, or that it's not effecient or what not. Half the hacks posted on Slashdot tend to be next to useless anyways.

    It's a cool hack, simple as that.

  17. MIT research on non-video VRAM uses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Watching the new He-Man and the Masters of the Universe movie last night brought so many emotions to me: joy, for seeing my favorite characters brought to the small screen once again; skepticism, in trying to believe these are the same characters as their original counterparts; and a sense of being overwhelmed, by the sheer number of revelations and surprises Mattel and Mike Young Productions managed to pack into an hour and a half of television.

    Truly this is an historic moment for He-Fans everywhere. No longer is our favorite childhood hero banished to a one-time existence in the mid-1980s. Now it has been revived in a refreshing and powerful new series and toyline. Now our He-Man will take his place among the ranks of G.I. Joe, Transformers, Star Wars, and other franchise creations that have permanent appeal over many generations. What the new cartoon proves more than anything is that the concept for Masters of the Universe is timeless.

    "The Beginning," which will be split into three "Origin" parts for regular airing, aspires to do something never before attempted in the Masters of the Universe canon. The original cartoon (and toyline) begin during He-Man's heroic career, never explaining how he got the sword or how his rivalry with Skeletor developed. Instead, we were fed constant hints as to how these things happened (Sorceress was assigned the job of giving the swords to their destined owners in "Origin of the Sorceress"), but never truly told the straight story on how a cowardly prince became the champion of Eternia. Mattel and Mike Young Productions have chosen not only to finally tell He-Man's origin story, but Skeletor's as well, interlocking the two permanently.

    Skeletor's origin story still leaves many questions to be answered. The writers have chosen to use the Keldor tale first popularized in the 1986 series Mattel mini-comic, "The Search for Keldor!," which insinuated that Skeletor was King Randor's long-lost brother. Whether or not they are siblings remains a question mark, but what we do know is that Skeletor was once known as a goatee-sporting villain named Keldor (and goatees are always a sure sign of evil, right?). By the way Randor warns the Elders in the Hall of Wisdom, we understand that Skeletor and his army are fast approaching, threatening and invading every corner of Eternia. It is apparent that Randor and the Defenders (the new title of the Heroic Warriors that shows they are constantly on the defense against Skeletor) are struggling to keep the planet safe. While Mattel has chosen to show how Skeletor got his skullface, they have left the story of how Skeletor became Eternia's chief enemy up to question. This leaves all sorts of room for Hordak, King Hiss, and any number of threads to weave into Skeletor's past. But at this point in his life, Skeletor seems to have asserted his rightful place as Eternia's resident master of destruction and created a loyal band of warriors to fight his cause. When Skeletor and his forces attack the Hall of Wisdom, a clash with Randor leaves Skeletor faceless. When Skeletor tosses a vial of poison at Randor, he deflects it with his shield, and the poison sprays all over Keldor's face. The animators try so hard to make this a "Big, Important Moment" that they use dreadfully sluggish slow motion to It is thrilling to finally see Skeletor clutching his head screaming, "My face! My face!," and it is even more satisfying to know that Randor caused the deformation. If there was not hatred between these two before, there definitely is now. Mattel has worked hard to incorporate Randor more tightly into the He-Man/Skeletor rivalry and give Skeletor real motivation to detest the king of Eternia.

    Another longtime hole in Skeletor's story has been how Eternia fought him all those twenty years while waiting for Adam to grow up and assume the powers of Grayskull. There have been many theories as to how this might be explained, but Mike Young Productions has come up with the best one I've heard yet. The Council of Elders banished Skeletor and his gang to Snake Mountain (in the "Dark Hemisphere," perpetuating the idea that Eternia has a dark half and a light half). The Sorceress and Man-At-Arms generated a mystic wall to imprison the villains in their own sub-world. This is the cartoon's first symbolic union of science and magic, as Man-At-Arms thrusts a generator into the ground and the Sorceress ignites it with her magic power. This is the first time in either cartoon series that the Sorceress has really performed a jaw-dropping magic spell. The shots of the mystic wall are breath-taking, and we understand immediately that this Sorceress will be a force to reckon with.

    Unfortunately, the Sorceress is a failure. Gone is the maternity and soft-spoken spirituality of a kind-hearted woman in bird costume. She has been replaced by a female Egyptian pharaoh that speaks cold declarations and looks with hard eyes. I always imagined the scene when the Sorceress bestows the sword upon Prince Adam to be a beautiful, loving scene where the Sorceress would gently explain Adam's destiny as he, overwhelmed but fully aware of the moment's importance, dutifully accepted his new role. All hopes for such a moment are dashed by the icy Sorceress and frightfully bratty Prince Adam seen in "The Beginning."

    Mattel has decided to make Prince Adam a boy and He-Man a man, which is a decision I very much approve. Michael Halperin, who wrote the original He-Man series bible, wanted Adam to be a teenager given the power to fight like a man, but Filmation nixed the idea in order to make He-Man and Prince Adam the exact same size and build to ease the difficulties of animating them. The new Adam provides endless avenues for personal growth and development. I think the writers chose to make Adam so unlikable in this first episode so that he would have some place to go and room to grow as the series fleshes him out. He certainly has the most potential of any of the characters in a series where the villain is usually the star. Adam's new look is a breath of fresh air, finally freeing him from that gaudy pink vest and giving him a look that crosses somewhere between Robin Hood and a punk rocker. The new story is more a fairy tale about how a child assumes the power to defeat bigger and stronger enemies, following classic myth-making principles.

    But while writer Dean Stefan's decision to make Adam bratty now so he can become manly later is probably a smart one, it makes Adam's performance particularly hard to swallow. He jokes, chides, and ridicules the most important moments of his life, making him appear flippant and disrespectful. As soon as he meets the Sorceress, he makes a crack about sending her a birthday invitation (the guardian's silent response is the only moment when her frosty coldness truly works). Adam possesses reverence for almost nothing--his warrior training, his duties as a prince, his destiny as revealed in the legendary Castle Grayskull. Whereas his attitude in the old show was purely an act, this Prince Adam really does behave like this. It will be most interesting to see if, as Adam grows and accepts his challenges over time, he will grow out of his childishness and learn to act foolish only as a disguise for his secret identity. As told in "The Beginning," He-Man is merely a muscular costume for Prince Adam. Our hero is developed only minimally and possesses no life of his own. I always enjoyed in the old show how you could never really separate He-Man from Adam and vice versa--because even though Adam's behavior was all an act, his inner self was completely formed from the principles and strength of He-Man. One could not exist without the other, but there are times when Adam tires of being He-Man ("Into the Abyss") or outright gives him up ("The Problem With Power"). The writers for the new series seem to be going with the idea that Adam is the whole person and He-Man exists as an incidental, alternative form. If the writers are smart, they'll begin blending the two as the heroics of He-Man begin to have a maturing effect on Prince Adam. The new series promises us huge character development stories for Prince Adam, allowing us to fully understand the growing pains of suddenly becoming your planet's crowned champion.

    Writer Dean Stefan produces an unexpected twist in the revelation scene at Grayskull when Adam completely walks out of it, mid-ceremony. Man-At-Arms, having known Adam's destiny all along (he and the Sorceress share a lot of secrets, don't they?), takes Adam to Castle Grayskull when he realizes the time has come. Adam hardly takes any of this seriously, which is a real shame. While I understand what the writers are trying to do, Adam's behavior subtracts not only from our love for him but also from the mystique of Castle Grayskull. If a teenage brat will not shut up when he enters Grayskull just from the feeling of being overwhelmed, then, well, he's a real brat. Adam's nonchalant attitude explodes when he declares, "I'm no great warrior. I'm just a kid. Thanks for the magic show," flagrantly refusing the Sorceress' offer. He flies back to the Royal Palace, where Skeletor and his minions have already wrecked havoc. Suddenly realizing that his family is in danger, Adam understands why he was asked to become a hero at this point in time. Some of Adam's behavior can be explained by his sheltered childhood lived in the safety of the Royal Palace. As Adam asks in his first scene, "What forces of evil? . . . They're history." He has never known evil, so how could he not have a carefree attitude about all this? By making Adam leave Grayskull prematurely, the writers force Adam to choose his destiny rather than have it simply bestowed upon him. Seeing the Palace in ruin, watching Man-At-Arms, his protector, jet off to the Evergreen Forest to join the fighting, hearing the words of his distraught mother, Adam has no choice but to return to Castle Grayskull and accept his adulthood. This plot twist allows Adam the power of choice and strengthens his character, even if it eschews the respectful scene I had always imagined in my head.

    The problem with Adam's flippant attitude is that it belittles Grayskull in its very first scene, when it should feel the most powerful and grandiose. The director has chosen low angle and surveillance shots to give us a wide perspective on Castle Grayskull, mostly to make Adam feel small and lost in its expansiveness. The newly redesigned Castle Grayskull is another major weak point in Mattel's re-imagining of the old series. Rather than being a castle obscured by a twisting and elaborate Evergreen Forest, the new Grayskull is a vertical tower stuck in the middle of a jungle. It makes more sense now why no one could find Grayskull before, but that does not make for its frighteningly vertical design. Trying to better Filmation's Grayskull was a fruitless task from the beginning, since Castle Grayskull stands as the original He-Man's only true work of art. The huge jaw mouth, the deep, penetrating eye sockets, the animal-like body of the castle, its leg-like bones supporting its weight over the bottomless abyss, the organic green interior--how could the animators of today even begin to top all this? They don't even try. The new Castle Grayskull looks like any other stone castle with a skullface slapped on front. Instead of a dark interior that shifts and seems somehow alive, we are given dusty brick walls and empty corridors. The castle feels lonely more than anything else. The gargoyles peering from the rafters bring echoes of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" that I'd rather not acknowledge and, again, reduces Grayskull to a castle like any other. The designers give Grayskull no cohesive concept for its interiors. The entrance is a gothic stone corridor, the Sorceress's throne is an Egyptian pyramid, the labyrinth bears Roman coliseums, and the underground chamber is a haphazard mix between She-Ra's Crystal Castle and some vast region of outerspace (although the underground design certainly trumps all the rest of Grayskull). It's as if four different animators with completely different concepts for Grayskull decided they would each control a part of it. In the end, they succeed in making Grayskull into a confusing nothing. This is why the Sorceress's new Egyptian design does not fit in at all. If Grayskull were a pyramid, it would be appropriate, but not inside this castle. The Sorceress, the series's spiritual center, should be beautiful and simple, but the new design weighs her down with ornate designs and a heavy golden headdress. The new Castle Grayskull is this series' ultimate failure, unable to recapture almost any of the aura, suspense, or power of the original. Instead, it is an architectural mishmash.

    The only attempt to capture the mystique of old comes when the Sorceress leads He-Man to the underground chamber. Her firefly light leads Adam through Grayskull's corridors, allowing for some of the best lighting and direction in the entire episode. As the Sorceress and Adam descend to the underground chamber, echoes of "Origin of the Sorceress" abound. Since that episode provides our only idea of what it is like to receive the powers of Grayskull, it becomes the benchmark by which this new scene must compare. And, unfortunately, it falls short. The underground chamber is the only Grayskull location that takes our breath away even for a second, as the crystalline expansiveness wows our eyes. The Sorceress sends a ray down into a black abyss, hinting that the abyss may be just as important in providing Grayskull's power as it was in the old series. An ornate chest rises out from the blackness, revealing Adam's sword. I do like that this entire sequence is free of dialogue, as if the Sorceress knew Adam's decision without asking him and he knew what to do without being told. But the scene lacks any pause, any breath, any learning. Adam picks up the sword with little or no hesitance, whips it above his head, and declares, "By the power of Grayskull!," without even the least bit of encouragement. Even Zoar had to have some coaching from Kodak Ungor before she could become the Sorceress again. In a few wild anime camera moves, Adam becomes He-Man in a shock of electric blue light. The transformation happens too rapidly without any of the reverence it deserves. This should have been a quiet, powerful moment as Adam accepts his destiny, but instead it barrels over Adam's "It's heavy" protest to reach the finished product, a sword-wielding muscle man named He-Man that almost seems foreign to the whole event.

    He-Man himself appears oddly disconnected and undeveloped in his first outing. Having just been created, he lacks any real personality of his own. The writers have taken great pains to improve our hero from the one of old. He-Man's action sequences are a lot like his old ones (picking up a boulder, deflecting Skeletor's blasts, stopping a fall in mid-air by plunging his sword into the cliffside), but they are a lot harder for him to perform. Lifting a boulder appears to take all his strength, as he carefully cuts the rock with his sword, pulls it up from the ground, and takes his time rising from his knees to hold the boulder completely in the air. A huge problem in the original series was that He-Man appeared to do anything and everything almost effortlessly. When a hero is all-powerful, he becomes boring. The new series has taken great pains to show He-Man is strong, but his feats of strength are not necessarily easy. This allows room for He-Man to be weak, to fall, to make a mistake. Already the writers have cured one of the major ills of the old show. I particularly love it when He-Man catches Randor as they fall into the lava pits and Randor asks, "He-Man, you can fly?" in a stroke of comedic genius. He-Man, of course, can not fly, pointing out one of his weaknesses right from the start. He plunges his sword into the mountainside to stop, but fails, and he has to let go of Randor to make the second attempt work. This is far more dramatic than He-Man quickly and effortlessly saving the day. Unlike the original series, the action sequences of the new one will actually be interesting.

    If there is any message the new series is trying to send us, it is this: THE ACTION SCENES WILL BE MUCH, MUCH BETTER. At least a third of "The Beginning" movie is spent on battles, pairing up different character so they can square off and demonstrate their weapons and abilities. Just like "Diamond Ray of Disappearance," Mattel is using this as a toy commercial to demonstrate all the "neat things" each character can do, enticing us to buy. But such commercialism can be excused because the animators go to great lengths to make these tiffs interesting and exciting. One of the major problems of the old series was the "one strike, you're out" formula, which dictated that any time a villain was struck, hit, or kicked, he was automatically defeated and completely out of commission. This is why battles on the old series happen so quickly and quietly: all it takes is one action for a hero to knock out the villain. The new series has much more faith in the resilience of its characters. When Man-E-Faces knocks Mer-Man down, he stands up again and whips out his sword (cleverly using his belt emblem to hide his sword). The villains are not defeated easily and the heroes are not perfect, making the action scenes far more intriguing. The heroes might actually lose against these ferocious enemies.

    While I do not have space to talk about every character individually, I would like to write a few quick impressions about each one:

    Man-At-Arms - a more quiet force than I first expected, he maintains his fatherly presence with a bit more strategic intelligence. His once useless battle mace can change shape and produce strategy plans, and he seems more like a middle-aged warrior than the aging engineer of old.

    Man-E-Faces - one of the most useless characters of the original toyline, Mattel could have ditched him this time around. But instead, they are trying to finally integrate Man-E with the rest of the cast. He still has not found his place, but he is more active than I expected. The question still remains whether his shifting faces actually change his personality and his powers or if they do nothing to him at all.

    Ram Man - does not really have much to do here, but maintains the clumsy, dumbfounded personality of old, and his beefier redesign fits his powers perfectly

    Mekaneck - this new series works hard to give Mekaneck the purpose he never really attained in the original; the fact that his neck can bend and twist will aid that goal a lot.

    Stratos - not much different from the Stratos of old, his main purpose is to be the Defender that can actually fly.

    I was actually amazed at how much Mattel did NOT change from the original series. Most of the characters' redesigns are variations on the old ones, and they all possess the same powers and even the same weapons of the originals (and the cartoon has managed to integrate the weapons in ways that Filmation never bothered to).

    Teela has a refreshing new anime look, given long ponytail hair and a ferocious, wide-eyed attitude. She does not seem nearly as reserved and harsh as the old Teela; in fact, she comes across as playful, youthful, and freed up. This allows her to have more of a bantering sibling relationship with Prince Adam than the almost parental relationship of old. The new show chooses familiar ground with which to introduce them--the traditional training sequence in the Royal Palace courtyard under the watchful view of Man-At-Arms. Returning to this place assures the audience that nothing has changed at all. Adam and Teela's spirited attacks on each other tell us right from the start that their attraction is more than just the kind of bond childhood friends share. Teela's backflips and snake staff action prove she will certainly have more than her fair share of great action scenes in the new series.

    Orko remains surprisingly unchanged from the original series. His more wizardly outfit works well, but his high-pitched squealing and Freudian slips prove he will be comedic relief all over again. That will probably be okay, since the writers must know Orko was overused in the original show. The writers have done an excellent job of solving yet another mystery from the original series: how Orko found out Adam's secret (or why Adam would tell him it at all). Orko and Cringer follow Adam to Grayskull and witness his transformation, becoming the only two other than the Sorceress and Man-At-Arms to know the secret. I like that Cringer and Battle Cat are unable to speak in the new series. It allows Cringer to be frightened constantly without the whiny voice (he looks more like a real cat too). Battle Cat's new design is disappointing, however. The animators have scaled back his armor, but his head is way too small for his body. Orko, Cringer, and Battle Cat always bear the burden of being the funny sidekicks, and the jury is still out on exactly how they will function in this new series.

    King Randor and Queen Marlena are remarkably muted in their twenty-first century redesigns. The gruffness of Randor's original voice is missing, and he almost sounds like he could be He-Man's age. The animators have chosen to dress Randor and Marlena in the same brown and orange colors, but this has a dulling effect. Whereas the original Queen Marlena, in her striking and simple green gown, provided a commanding presence even when she did not speak, the new Marlena seems quiet and unaware. She's a token mother figure without any of the intelligence and power of the original. I can hardly imagine this Queen Marlena being a headstrong astronaut from the planet Earth.

    But while Mattel and Mike Young Productions have done a credible job with the heroes, their energies have obviously been better spent on the villains. Maintaining the looks and color schemes for the Evil Warriors, the animators have wisely sharpened the appearances and powers of Skeletor's ratpack. Here's my rundown:

    Mer-Man - the Best Entrance award goes to Mer-Man, who pops out of a swampy pool in foreboding, grand style. The animators have taken away the bumbling oafishness of the original and made Mer-Man's fishy origins an asset. His razor-sharp teeth, piercing eyes, and throaty voice make him dangerous and full of malice. His scene with the giant floating blowfish goes on way too long, however, and having Man-At-Arms trapped in its belly is a little too "Jonah and the Whale" for my tastes.

    Beast Man - the quintessential first henchman, Beast Man fails to return to his darker roots from the first episodes of the original series. Instead, the writers have opted to go with the bumbling, clueless Beast Man that became the norm. His chief allies appear to be the Griffins, which allow him to swoop in and rescue Skeletor whenever necessary. The scene where the two ride Griffins and the wind flies against them is one of the strongest sensory moments in the episode and proves that Beast Man is Skeletor's right hand man.

    Trap Jaw - thankfully, Trap Jaw's foolishness has been reduced and his powers emphasized. His huge robotic arm supports almost any weapon, and he actually seems threatening now.

    Clawful - the loneliest of Skeletor's first season band, Clawful was a villain who always had great potential with his echoing voice and devilish eyes. The new series kills that potential by giving him the idiot voice and brain that Trap Jaw abated. But, like all the other villains, his terrific redesign and blazing powers reveal a triumph of brawn over brain.

    Whiplash - how did Whiplash get so big? He's huge now, and the better for it. His tail cracks down on Teela, and if that doesn't frighten a person, Whiplash sitting on you will.
    Tri-Klops - the "odd man out" of Skeletor's original five cohorts (Beast Man, Trap Jaw, Evil-Lyn, Mer-Man, and Tri-Klops), Tri-Klops returns in this series with newfound purpose. His cyclops eye can shoot fire now (among other things, I'm sure), and his Doom Seeker robots attack when we least expect them to. The Doom Seeker have not been fully explained, but they add purpose to Tri-Klops. Expect a lot more from him in the future.

    Of course the most improved villain is Evil-Lyn, who reaches her full potential in this new series. While the new design is a little too sticks-and-bones for me, the attitude and the power are all there. Whereas it was sometimes unclear her role in the original series, Evil-Lyn is undoubtedly second-in-command now. She stands alongside Keldor in his first scene, and takes over for Skeletor when he escapes with Randor. And just as Skeletor receives a tilting shot over his body upon entrance, so too does Evil-Lyn warrant a similar shot later on, proving that she is just as threatening. Her staff-length crystal ball is an improvement and her glowing purple eyes are a welcome addition to her sorceress ensemble. Whereas Evil-Lyn always seemed like Teela's evil counterpart in the original series, this Evil-Lyn positions herself far beyond Teela's level. As a longtime Evil-Lyn fan, it is a thrill to see her finally kicking butt. After Tri-Klops, Trap Jaw, and Beast Man each try to break the mystic wall, Evil-Lyn steps forward and declares, "Step aside, boys," and fires her magical best. While her attempt fails (allowing Skeletor to assume his rightful role as destroyer of the mystic wall), the sequence proves the hierarchy of the Evil Warriors and Evil-Lyn's place atop it. Perhaps no moment among the action scenes is more powerful than when Evil-Lyn sends a cosmic blast across the Evergreen Forest and turns it into a barren wasteland, turning the tables and making the Evil Warriors the team to beat. Never would the original He-Man series have produced a moment where it seemed so much like the villains would actually win. Skeletor's army is, on a hand to hand ratio, more powerful than He-Man's Defenders, allowing them to become the longtime threat legend has made them out to be. Now we understand why Eternia needs He-Man: these enemies are too strong for anyone but him.

    Evil-Lyn's rise to power could not come without a hint of mutiny. Writer Dean Stefan chooses to end the episode with a tacked-on scene where Evil-Lyn questions Skeletor's authority. "Perhaps you think you could run things better than I," Skeletor coldly says to Evil-Lyn, eliciting the conciliatory reaction he wanted from her. The scene is rather useless in "The Beginning," but it does promise plenty of classic tension between these two power-starved villains. Evil-Lyn will be her own force in this new series.

    But just like "Diamond Ray of Disappearance," the true star of this premiere episode is Skeletor. Retaining the wit of the original, this Skeletor is far more powerful and threatening than ever before. His voice leaves much to be designed, but Mattel has successfully re-imagined him as a warrior. The new Skeletor is far more physical, allowing him to fight He-Man almost equally. His flips and jumps into the air, his amazing sword slashing, and his dynamic mid-air moves all reveal the potent influence of anime on the new Masters of the Universe. Skeletor can do almost anything, and that makes him a stronger villain. Thankfully, the animators have brought back the Havoc Staff and added a royal cape, giving Skeletor a captive elegance and form he did not quite possess before. The director has overused the red eyes glowing, which are supposed to signal the moments when Skeletor gets most angry. The red eyes were used throughout original He-Man memorabilia, but Filmation chose to resist it. It was inevitable that the new cartoon would employ the red eyes, but the animators should be frugal with their usage. On the other hand, director Gary Hartle chooses brilliantly to obscure Skeletor's skullface until he finally reveals it to King Randor, the man he blames for his deformation. As Randor wisely responds, "You did it to yourself," cleverly pointing out that Skeletor's evil will poison himself and ultimately bring his downfall. Obscuring Skeletor's face, shrouding him in darkness, and granting him legendary fighting skills and magic powers have bolstered Skeletor to the level he was always meant to achieve--a serious, powerful supervillain almost incapable of defeat. Skeletor still delivers terrible dialogue about threatening He-Man and ruling Eternia, and he still surrounds himself with blundering idiots (he gets annoyed with Beast Man), but he's a much stronger villain than the one Alan Oppenheimer voiced (even if Oppenheimer's Skeletor laugh was much better). As always, Skeletor remains the star of He-Man's show.

    Mattel and Mike Young Productions have done an amazing job of streamlining and retelling the often incongruous He-Man mythology. The Hall of Wisdom, which never appeared in the original series, finally establishes the Council of Elders as the center of wisdom and power in Eternia. When Keldor attacks the hall, the Elders vanish and declare Captain Randor king of Eternia (finally proving that Randor rules over all, not just part, of the planet, but vanquishing the King Miro mythology of the old series). The Elders' disappearance marks a powerful shift for all of Eternia. Randor, standing alone in the now empty hall, hears only the voice of the Sorceress in falcon form. She declares, "Peace will come only for a time. A hero shall emerge to protect Eternia." Director Gary Hartle takes care to obscure the Sorceress until Adam meets her, cleverly hiding her in shadowed shots of her wings. The Sorceress explains to Adam that the Elders joined their powers and gave their energy to the Sorceress to protect. While this would seem to answer the question "What is the secret of Grayskull?," it does not quite make sense. If the ultimate power of Grayskull is the the power and knowledge of the Elders, then what did Grayskull exist before they stored their power in it? Why was the Sorceress living there? When Skeletor grills King Randor for information, he asks, "Now that the Council of Elders is no more, who controls the power of Eternia now?" What is this power of Eternia? Does it allow one to control Eternia, or the entire universe? Is is simply the knowledge and power of the original Elders? And why did Grayskull exist before it became the storage place for that power? Since Skeletor is still looking for the Elders, he does not even realize that Grayskull exists, adding an interesting new twist to the mythology. Skeletor will not attack Grayskull until he learns that the Elders' power is stored with in it. I am hoping that Grayskull houses more than just the Elders' magic. The original Grayskull kept its secret mysterious, but always offered the power to control the universe. This new series does not quite say if Grayskull offers this kind of power anymore or if the "power" is just the concentrated wisdom of Eternia's oldest Elders.

    Furthermore, is the Hall of Wisdom still standing? With all the energy put into creating the Hall of Wisdom at the beginning of this movie, we would expect its presence to continue. I wish the animators had put as much effort into Grayskull as they did the hall. The opening shots and music in "The Beginning" are unrivaled by the rest of the story. On the whole, the music is banal and disinterested, providing more coverage than truly adding excitement. Places where the music should have provided the most emotion (such as Adam receiving the Power Sword) is where it remains the most unmemorable. The direction is vastly improved, showing what twenty years can do to children's animation. The moving camera shots, low angles, and blazing action cuts show the new influence of anime and modern cinema on animation. Director Gary Hartle has done a supreme job of making the once stagnant He-Man characters practically jump off screen.

    The new He-Man series brings almost hundreds of welcome improvements upon the original, including better action scenes, better continuity, and darker villains, but it fails miserably when it comes to voices. King Randor and Mekaneck and Man-At-Arms all sound like the same person. Skeletor's voice is hollow and posses none of the resonant vocals of Alan Oppenheimer. He-Man's voice sounds the way a boring muscle-man's should, lacking any of the maturity and moral depth of John Erwin's performance. Even Evil-Lyn, who has the best voice of all the new characters, sounds grainy and desperate when listened against the golden confidence of Linda Gary's witch. All the characters look fantastic, but when they open their mouths, I want to cry.

    Still, my complaints are largely nitpicky. Mattel and Mike Young Productions have overcome the major hurdles by firming up the mythology, finally telling the origin story of He-Man, and re-envisioning the entire cast of characters without taking away the appearances, powers, and personalities that first made us love them. I am impressed by how much has not changed, and most of the changes are welcome improvements upon the original series. Executive producer Bill Schultz has succeeded in guiding this new series to its rightful place. On the whole, "The Beginning" is off to a great start.

  18. yah - works well by cullenfluffyjennings · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The AGP interface is much faster than the memory interface on most recent intel based machines. I do computer vision where a bunch of scratch pad memory is required - the memory on the graphics card is fast and can interlace with acces to main memory. Rumour has it many games take advantage of this. In Linux you can do it with X stuff and in Windows you can use DirectX to do it.

    1. Re:yah - works well by MisterBlister · · Score: 2
      The AGP interface is much faster than the memory interface on most recent intel based machines.

      This might be true in theory but its not even close to true in practice. Memory access via AGP only hits about 10% of its theoretical maximum with current video cards. And read speeds are attrocious because the videocard designers assume there's going to be lots of data going from the CPU to VRAM but not much coming back.

      So, to parrot all the other posts saying this, this hack is completely useless, regardless of any cool factor you might find in it. There's absolutely no way I can imagine anyone finding a REAL use for this in practice.

    2. Re:yah - works well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      1. It's still faster than HDD swap.

      2. For a 2D desktop you will have spare video card ram.

      3. Use this video ram in preference to HDD swap.

    3. Re:yah - works well by linzeal · · Score: 1

      Couldn't a bios upgrade make it more I/O friendly? Of course I'm sure that would break numerous patents on the memory interface.

    4. Re:yah - works well by be-fan · · Score: 2

      The AGP interface, at 1 GB/sec, is less than 1/3'rd the speed of the memory interface (3.2 GB/sec). Now, that speed is only attainable through deep buffering (basically, block transfers). Writing and reading to video memory from the CPU is, and always will be, extremely, hideously, painfully slow. Slow to the point where the XRender guys (read their mailing list) are talking about pulling blocks of data of the vid card, compositing them with the CPU, and putting them back on the vidcard.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    5. Re:yah - works well by opusman · · Score: 1

      Interesting. How much memory can the AGP bus address?

      I wonder if it would be practical to have a "memory-only" AGP card with 1 or 2 gigs on it, for applications that don't need super high speed graphics but are very CPU/memory intensive.

  19. MOD PARENT UP FUNNY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    mods on crack

    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP FUNNY by gadfium · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I was a (potential) moderator in this discussion, but posting this will lose me that right.

      I keep seeing the offer of crack for moderators.

      Where do I go to get mine?

    2. Re:MOD PARENT UP FUNNY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I was a (potential) moderator in this discussion, but posting this will lose me that right.
      > I keep seeing the offer of crack for moderators.
      > Where do I go to get mine?

      [Shrug] Talk to one of the other moderators, they seem to have quite a bit available judging by some of the mods tonight.

  20. Ah... by md04 · · Score: 1

    Ramdisks.. Takes me back to the days of my Amiga. I always thought the ramdisk on that was a great boost.. Made a lot of things a hell of a lot easier.

    1. Re:Ah... by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      Ramdisks.. Takes me back to the days of my Amiga. I always thought the ramdisk on that was a great boost.. Made a lot of things a hell of a lot easier.

      I know, like the time I reformatted my harddrive. I moved my OS into RAM (I had more RAM than harddrive at the time) reformatted, put it back.

      I didn't even need a reboot. :-)

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
  21. Cool hack... by PissingInTheWind · · Score: 1
    but useless.

    Well, that's probably what makes it a cool hack ;-)

    --

    A message from the system administrator: 'I've upped my priority. Now up yours.'
  22. need a few extra bytes - use your CMOS RAM by Dolphinzilla · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I don't know why I am so cynical tonight, but give me a break - yes its cute and clever to use your video ram for something other than video but if you have a video card with a lot of ram you probably also put a reasonable amount in your computer in the first place - nice stunt, but not very useful IMHO.

  23. Re:Don't knock it, it's still a cool hack. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not really. There have been hacks that allow you to setup a RAMdisk in video memory for years (since back in the days of 256KB video cards). This is old 5k001.

  24. speed? by awing0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Would the speed of the VRAM be affected by the AGP read back bandwidth issue? I'm looking for the story that was posted on slashdot a while back, but the search function is less than adequate.

    On another note, this would be usefull for older machines that only have SIMMS and use EDO/FP RAM which is a lot more expensive than todays SD/DDR RAM. But, alas, those old machine don't have AGP ports. So, really, I don't see the point to this.

    --
    Cthulhu Saves.
    1. Re:speed? by psavo · · Score: 2

      But, alas, those old machine don't have AGP ports. So, really, I don't see the point to this.

      There's some PCI cards out there. I don't know how much memory they have (mine GF2PCI has 32 meg). Quick check reveals some 64Meg cards, which is not bad (compared to 64Meg SIMMs..).
      Bigger problem IMO is power consumption. GF2 seems to eat some juice even without heavy 3D. Also if you have some rather shitty PCI cards, you really have to choose place of grapphics card well, SB live was one example of this b0rkiness. Anyway, 5PCI slots, 1 for real use and 4 x64meg each. that would be nice..

      --
      fucktard is a tenderhearted description
  25. Also look at the speed of VRAM vs. RAM by garfunkalow · · Score: 1

    RAM right now varies from PC-133 (133Mhz) up do DDR400 (200Mhz DDR effectively 400Mhz)
    where as VRAM on most cards with 128meg of VRAM range from 600Mhz-700Mhz. So would there be a bottleneck accessing this VRAM from the AGP bus as opposed to RAM from the FSB? (I believe the AGP runs at 66Mhz still?)

    --
    Check it out, it works http://www.
    1. Re:Also look at the speed of VRAM vs. RAM by linzeal · · Score: 1

      Well with some of the newer programmable consumer level cards you could process a lot of the data on board with some serious hacking.

    2. Re:Also look at the speed of VRAM vs. RAM by orakle · · Score: 1

      Well you're sort of right... AGP 1x ran at 66mhz, like 1x66mhz, but now in its current incarnation of AGP 4x, it runs at 264mhz. Soon we'll have AGP 8x, so it'll be double that. Still not fast enough though. I'm pretty sure the vram on the board isn't made as much for running to the CPU but to the GPU to which it has a very fast pipe.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; grep; mount; fsck; yes; more; fsck; umount; make clean; sleep
    3. Re:Also look at the speed of VRAM vs. RAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. AGP4x still runs at 66Mhz, only that it reads twice at edge and twice at level, making it four reads by cycle.

    4. Re:Also look at the speed of VRAM vs. RAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, video cards are designed to recieve, not send data. You can send data quickly but the turnaround might be somewhat slower. If you ask me though, ANYTHING has to be faster than swapping to disk. I think it is a great idea to create a swap disk in a video card since OSs like to swap data even when there is plenty of memory left over.

  26. Forget reliability if you do this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    From first hand experience in the field, graphics hardware guys do not sweat reliability of the data inside their DRAMs. If you're storing important data there, be prepared for it to disappear, particularly if you are a l33t overclocker.

    1. Re:Forget reliability if you do this... by gabebear · · Score: 1

      I've had data corruption issues when I try to store anything in the extra video memory. Of coarse when I was playing with this idea I had a Tandy 100 XL with 640K of RAM I think I had 40K of video RAM, so at 320X480X2bit I could grab an extra 20K of RAM(if it had worked). I'm guessing that I needed to ask for that RAM from the video card for off screen drawing somehow, I never really tried that hard to figure it out.

  27. Hm. by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 2

    I guess, since you can't use your texture RAM in Linux anyway (unless you want to watch 3d screen savers), you might as well put all the RAM on that GeForce 4 to use somehow.

    - A.P.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
    1. Re:Hm. by be-fan · · Score: 2

      Actually, the extra memory space can be used by X to cache pixmaps, allowing them to be blitted to the frame buffer quicker.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    2. Re:Hm. by orakle · · Score: 1

      What about using it for Linux games like Quake 3 Arena that runs natively among others, and ported/emulated games from Loki or CodeWeavers?

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; grep; mount; fsck; yes; more; fsck; umount; make clean; sleep
  28. Old School DOS Memory Managers by C64 · · Score: 1

    Wow, does this take me back! I remember the really good old-school DOS memory managers (QEMM, for example) were able to create a handful more conventional memory beyond the 640k limit by using video memory in textmode. Quite handy for things like Word Perfect 5.1.

    <JOKE>
    So I guess Linux is finally catching up to DOS.
    </JOKE>

    1. Re:Old School DOS Memory Managers by Safety+Cap · · Score: 4, Interesting
      ~create a handful more conventional memory beyond the 640k~
      During one QA session with QEMM 6.x, we managed to create something in the neighborhood of 900k (!) conventional memory. If memory serves, the trick was to stealth the roms out with QEMM, copy command.com onto Kernl386.exe and fire up Win 3.1 (if any of you punks who didn't live on the top floor of 150 Pico remember different, please chip in).
      --
      Yeah, right.
    2. Re:Old School DOS Memory Managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF are you talking about? I know I'm not the only one who wants to know...explain away cocksucker.

    3. Re:Old School DOS Memory Managers by Spoing · · Score: 2
      Not possible in _graphics_mode_. Reason: Graphics memory at the time was in the 640K+ range. As soon as a program enabled that uses graphics, it accesses the remapped conventional memory and you have contention for the same address space.

      IF you have a program that can write outside that space for graphics operations, and you remap just about everything, you could theoretically get most of the first meg as conventional -- in theory only or in short run tests where you don't care what works or how well it works.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
    4. Re:Old School DOS Memory Managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with stealthing the ROMs like that was that every time you needed to access them, you had a performance penalty because they had to be paged in.

      Anyway lack of conventional memory was only a real issue in later, bloated versions of DOS:

      DOS 1.x - No hard disk support, and only 8 sectors per track support on 5.25 inch floppies. Not very useful

      DOS 2.x - Slightly better, but if I remember rightly, it didn't support 3.5 inch floppies

      DOS 3.x - Not bad at all, apart from having to partition your hard disk in to 32 Mb bits.

      DOS 4.x - BLOATWARE!!! This was a terrible version of DOS

      DOS 5.x - The best. Nothing left to say.

      DOS 6.x - BLOATWARE SECOND EDITION!!! Oh year, some other companies are actually selling things like defragmenters, and compression utilities, and we can't have that, can we? So, we'll just bundle inferior versions with DOS, and make them loose money, hahahahaha.

      DOS 7.x - For those people who don't want Windows-95. ^W^W^W^W^W^W^W Sorry, wrong answer, of course, it does not and never did exist, right? :-)

    5. Re:Old School DOS Memory Managers by Safety+Cap · · Score: 2
      Not possible in _graphics_mode_.
      I'm not talking about graphics mode: the whole jazz about command.com allows you to run a "dos shell" in protected mode. Lucky for you, I found my old copy of Unauthorized Windows 95 by Andrew Schulman (IDB Books Worldwide, 1994). Let me quote from Chapter 6: Win386 and MSDPMI (pp 161-2)
      Writing in Windows Tech Journal (March 1992), David Thielen, then a Microsoft employee, noted:
      Win386 isn't really even part of Windows. It's a preemptive multitasking kernel that controls multiple virtual machines. Once Win386 has initialized itself, it loads Windows in the system VM (the main virtual machine that always exists). However, it could just as easily load COMMAND.COM instead, resulting in a multitasking DOS. (No, I won't tell you how to do this.)
      Well, after Chapter 5's discussion of how to make DOSX.EXE load something other than the Windows kernel, it should be fairly apparent how to do the same thing with WIN386.EXE. Just as DOSX.EXE insists on running KRNL286.EXE or KRNL386.EXE, WIN386.EXE (actually, the SHELL VxD within WIN386) insists on running KRNL386.EXE But just as with DOSX, WIN386 will run any file called KRNL386.EXE: even COMMAND.COM, if you rename it!
      The point isn't that you're running graphics mode, or not. The point is that COMMAND.COM thinks that it can get to the first meg of memory without that pesky text thing taking up space at B000h-B7FFh (remember, the ROMs at 0xA000-0xAFFF, 0xB800-0xC800, and 0xF000-0xFFFF are all gone thanks to QEMM).
      --
      Yeah, right.
    6. Re:Old School DOS Memory Managers by Spoing · · Score: 2
      The point isn't that you're running graphics mode, or not. The point is that COMMAND.COM thinks that it can get to the first meg of memory without that pesky text thing taking up space at B000h-B7FFh (remember, the ROMs at 0xA000-0xAFFF, 0xB800-0xC800, and 0xF000-0xFFFF are all gone thanks to QEMM).

      Video memory typically starts at A000, and can start lower. Video ROMs are typically at C000-C800. B000-B800 is for monochrome (MGA). With that trivia out of the way...

      While the book you quote is good, you're out of your element. For one, I don't need to quote his book as I was there and know what I'm talking about .

      Loading something somewhere means nothing if it can't survive there. Adapters can initialize from A000-10000h without warning the OS or memory manager. This means corrupted programs or data. To use one piece of memory or another required much machine-specific tinkering. To use a contiguous block required quite a few rare circumstances.

      Loading anything above 1M leads to the program thinking (rightly) that it is still in the first meg. -- and it will attempt to write into the first meg if it can be executed at all. Usually, it can't. _DOS_ programs in the first meg run in real mode meaning that they will do things that are illegal in protected mode unless rewritten. _All_ programs above the first meg run in protected mode or don't run at all. (Nit: A small space called the HMA at 1M+ through 1M+~64K can still execute in real mode, though they would have to be patched or they would still attempt to write into the first 64K.)

      Once you handle all those problems in your code you end up with a protected mode program that no longer needs real mode. No real mode, no reason to use the first meg -- just allocate the memory from the OS/memory manager and let it mess with the first meg if it needs to. That's why DOS sucked so bad -- no memory to do jack unless you avoided it entirely.

      I worked at Qualitas -- makers of 386MAX (similar to QEMM). I debugged and tested MAX, compressed system BIOSes, a seperate 286 memory manager (yes, they existed), and a memory diagnostics program (RamExam). Shulman's book is a wee bit thicker because of the work that I and a few others at Qualitas did using debuggers that could do odd things like boot DOS from DOS -- not a big deal now, but an unreal thing to design back in the day unless you had specialized hardware.

      --
      A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  29. Why swap/storage? by MrHat · · Score: 1

    There was some work done toward getting Linux to map VRAM in as regular-old user or kernel memory. I don't have the link handy, but I believe I saw it on the linux-kernel list.

    Occasionally I have delusions of trying something like this - treating the division between the VRAM and regular RAM as a case of non-uniform memory access, and using existing algorithms to prefer the faster memory.

  30. Re: Oh, it can be useful all right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here's some instances...

    I just happen to have a nVidia geForce2go which I'm using in vesa mode becasue the nvidia module is proprietary...

    Now I can swap to the video memory I'm not using and put that memory to use.

    How about using that video memory for /tmp on headless servers? (Its common to leave a video card in headless servers for maintanance).

    I just don't understand why people are so negative when people have come up with a new way to show just how flexible the linux kernel can be... just because some feature doesn't meet your needs doesn't mean it doesn't meet mine.

    If you want a one size fit all solution, then try some of those companies in the northwest part of the country.

  31. Not *completely* useless. by Dunhausen · · Score: 1

    If you've used up all the slots you have available for RAM, this is one way to pack more RAM into your machine.

    --
    Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to we
    1. Re:Not *completely* useless. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also a good use for an extra PCI video card whose current purpose in life is just to collect dust in the cupboard - I'm always interested in more RAM, no matter how much I've already got.

  32. Prior Art by Istealmymusic · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Heh, does anyone remember the virii that spread through the MS-DOS console VRAM? It was a pain at LAN parties where we would swap vidcards all the time. I can't recall the name, but it TSR'd in B800:0000 real mode. You can view the VRAM in Windows or DOS using debug:
    C:\>debug
    -db800:0 B800:0000 2D 07 64 07 62 07 38 07-30 07 30 07 3A 07 30 07 -.d.b.8.0.0.:.0.

    This goes to show how virus authors's creativity evolves pretty fast, its funny how nowadays someone is showing how to use VRAM for legitimate purposes. Who would have known? Those crazy VXers thought of it first.

    --
    "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
    1. Re:Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsense. For a start, even if there was virus code at b800:0000 when you put in a new video card then how would it get executed? Secondly, RAM isn't persistent, it wouldn't survive the card being swapped between machines

    2. Re:Prior Art by Istealmymusic · · Score: 1
      Uhh...maybe through a realmode jmp b8000:0? But you're right about your second point, my recollections may be a bit fuzzy as I haven't used DOS in 20 years, and it was my grandmother who got the virii not me. She's old, but packs a hell of a fragrate at CS.

      Although the use of the video card's flashable firmware has not been ruled out. If you ever see "S3 VIDEO CARD 02-10-09" at bootup that's the firmware, and its being auto-executed at startup. Unless I'm mistaken.

      --
      "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
    3. Re:Prior Art by twenex · · Score: 2, Funny

      Your Grandma goes to Lan parties???

    4. Re:Prior Art by Istealmymusic · · Score: 2

      Used to, but sadly she passed away last year. In real life. :( She will be missed, and not only because our clan moved down several ranks.

      --
      "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
    5. Re:Prior Art by jelle · · Score: 2

      As far as I can remember, the firmware would usually be at 0xC800:0 (and would be executed if the fingerprint is there). Anyways, 0xb800:0 is the screen, which can contain anything, but usually contains ASCII characters, not encoded assembly instructions, which would be visible as garbage on the screen...

      Anyways again, if the 'virus' was in RAM, then swapping a video card would erase the virus, because that usually requires a powercycle of the card...

      I'm guessing that at your LAN parties you had a virus that spread through the harddisk and FLASH ROM on particular brands of video cards. Some clown must have written a virus specifically to spread during LAN parties... Who else would use a video card they just met without protection? ;-)

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
    6. Re:Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      jmp b8000:0

      But where is that useless instruction? The virus hasn't executed and there is no reason anything else in the system would want to execute the display memory. Viruses don't excecute by magic.

    7. Re:Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Viruses don't execute by magic.

      Of course they do! File magic is what is used to detect the header of a binary executable, when the shell is told to run it! :-)

  33. what about my X? by notanatheist · · Score: 1

    Don't you know how perty X is with 64MB of DDR on a GeForce3? Try running top and you'll see that X barely even shows up on the charts with that much ram on a video card. I rarely see more than 5% memory usage by X.

    1. Re:what about my X? by Arkus · · Score: 1

      Five percent of what amount of RAM though? I think the point of the little experiment was to add swap space to an older system without much system RAM. I would imagine that if you system only utilizes such a small percentage it is because you have a more proportionate total system RAM to your video RAM (unlike the system in the story submitted).

      --
      -- Just my $0.02 worth...
  34. They tried this on the Dreamcast by Talez · · Score: 1

    The guy who was working on the Doom port was trying to get extra memory from anywhere that he could so that he could load the WAD files entirely into memory.

    He had this wonderful idea of allocating the frame buffer and then using the excess video memory to store extra data.

    It failed miserably when he realised that you can't actually read from the Dreamcast's VRAM, only write.

    1. Re:They tried this on the Dreamcast by LiENUS · · Score: 1

      actually you can read vram quite well i use to have an early beta of it, it was slow and functioned like malloc

    2. Re:They tried this on the Dreamcast by LiENUS · · Score: 1

      o
      and btw it wasnt for doom
      he had no problem loading doom into ram
      it was n64, he made it to see if n64 emulation was feasable.

  35. I for one by WickedChicken · · Score: 1

    have a motherboard with an embedded graphics controller and this lets me make use of the otherwise dead card (I don't want to buy another monitor)

    --
    "It's even worse if you're locked into a proprietary operating system." -http://www.wehavethewayout.com/scale.asp?rew=0
  36. Perhaps a hack, nevertheless, useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ultimately it is irrelevant whether a practical application exists for this specific hack. It represents a gain in knowledge and a better familiarity with the machines we employ.

  37. Hidden Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Say you want the hide "data", outside of normal memory. This a great way to add secure memory.

    Write a fast bitblit routine to erase the "hidden memory. Use the graphic engine to add real time xor of crypto keys.

    Don't think of it as just memory but think of it as secret memory.

    Shaun

  38. great!!! by ronaldcromwell · · Score: 0, Redundant

    now i can use the 2megs that X _DIDN'T_ gobble up!

    1. Re:great!!! by Istealmymusic · · Score: 1

      Who uses X? Or even text-mode vtty logins? ssh/rlogin all the way baby.

      --
      "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
  39. Temporary use of VRAM by The+Monster · · Score: 3, Informative
    Isn't this a bit wasteful?
    It would be if you bought the card for the express purpose of using the VRAM that way. When I saw this, I had a flashback. When I was using DOS 5/6, with the then-revolutionary ability to remap memory into Upper Memory Blocks between the ROMs and VRAM, I ran into a problem using that memory.

    Most of the drivers and TSRs that I wanted to load in the space originally allocated for monochrome video (a 32K block between B0000 and B7FFF) required more space to load than to run so I came up with the solution of 'borrowing' some VRAM and wrote the Video Hole package to do just that. I used a BIOS call to change the display page from 0 to 6 (for reasons I never quite understood, 7 didn't work on my old Trident 8900) and 'borrowed' 24000 bytes (6 pages of VRAM) from the VRAM to allow a program (say MSCDEX?) to fit in there, then 'recalled' the loan, changing back to page 0. That extra 24K more than took care of the transient portion of a lot of programs that otherwise couldn't use the Video Hole.

    I don't know if anyone else ever used the darned thing (nobody ever sent me the $5 shareware fee for doing so) but it got uploaded to a bunch of BBSes and works in the real mode phase of Win95 and 98 - if you have hardware with real mode drivers that don't know how to load low and relocate the resident portion high, it will do the job fine.

    --

    [100% ISO 646 Compliant]
    SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.

    1. Re:Temporary use of VRAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet chicks in bars really dig that "I used a BIOS call" line

    2. Re:Temporary use of VRAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't give up your day job

  40. I like the idea. by Vasilis+Vasaitis · · Score: 1

    Although I don't have a lot of VRAM to spare, this gave me an idea I might play with...

    I have an old 486DX4 system, with one of those cool AMD 486 processors with double L1 cache and Write-Back (WB) cache mode. (Trust me, these 486's are much faster than the rest of the pack). There's only one problem though: the motherboard has very few L2 cache (256k), which makes it unable to cache more than 32MB of RAM in WB mode. So, to put in more memory, I would either have to switch to Write-Through (WT), which would be slow, or have a mix of cacheable and non-cacheable memory, which is even slower.

    What does all this have to do with the mentioned article, you might wonder? Well, it immediately gave me the idea that I might be able to add more RAM to that PC, use the lowest (cacheable) part for the system, and use the above as a Memory Technology Device (MTD), perhaps putting some swap space on it. Weird, huh? Still, if it works, it'll probably be somewhat better than leaving the extra memory in a drawer gathering dust...

    Too bad I'll be travelling in a few days, so my spare time right now is next to zero. *sigh* But I'll have to try it sometime.

    --
    Vasilis Vasaitis
    Late readers: please moderate at Newest First, with a low threshold, to promote late writers.
    1. Re:I like the idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Trust me, these 486's are much faster than the rest of the pack).

      BWAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thank you for giving me a good laugh: I didn't expect to see someone gloating about their kick ass 486s in, oh, about the past 5 years.

  41. Re: Oh, it can be useful all right by ergo98 · · Score: 1

    I just don't understand why people are so negative...

    Sort of like when the guy cut and pasted an advertisement as a Slashdot article, it's the spirit of the submission that leads to the likely response. In this case the submission basically argues that one should use a "cheap 128MB video card" as RAM, yet in my neck of the woods I can buy over a GB of DDR333 RAM for less than I can buy a 128MB videocard. It just was a really nonsensical way of wording that.

  42. This used to be useful, once upon a time. by SETIGuy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I used a similar technique on my XT compatible after I upgraded it with a VGA card with 256KB of RAM on it (long after everyone had thrown away their XTs). So long as you managed to avoid writing into the visible screen, a lot of it could be used for storage (with a bit of work on the page selection registers). I still have that machine. It's got 640k on the main board, 256k on the VGA, and 2 MB on an EMS 4.0 board. (2.875 MB total) There were times when I used every byte.

    Of course there's a big difference between boosting a maxed out XT and expanding the capacity of your P4 2.8Ghz from 2GB to 2.064GB.

  43. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  44. Re:anyone remember velvet jones.... eddie murphy s by houseofmore · · Score: 0

    Haha. What a loser.

  45. need more memory? by lethalwp · · Score: 0



    I remember some guy saying:

    "640KB ought to be enough for everybody"

    1. Re:need more memory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He never said that you fucking moron.

      http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/gatesivu.ht m

  46. YOU PEOPLE DON'T GET IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Think about the fact that a old of older pentium 1/socket7/super7 motherboard chipsets can't handle caching about 64 meg of ram. As a result if you add more ram the system may slow down because the L2 cache can't address about 64. Also, simms tend to be expensive. Now if you take a old pentium for a router or fileserver and you have a few old 4 meg or so video cards that X might not support anyways you can configure them as swap devices which a) you don't have to worry about slowing down the system due to L2 caching addressing limits b) swapping to ram devices is a hell of a lot faster than swap. This hack allows you to add some more life to a few older systems at the cost of a few pci slots.

    I know this hack isn't great for newer systems but I have plenty of older boxes that can take advantage of this nicely.

    auto262814@hushmail.com

  47. Why not knock it? by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 2

    The guy probably spent *days* figuring this thing out, and, for what? Who will use this? What value does it provide? It's a cool hack, sure, but it serves no point. If you're going to hack something, at least make the end result worthwhile.

    Some people love hacking their cars, but they don't use their gas tank to hold their washer fluid simply because it's possible to do so.

    - A.P.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
    1. Re:Why not knock it? by Ted_Green · · Score: 1

      "The guy probably spent *days* figuring this thing out, and, for what? Who will use this? What value does it provide? It's a cool hack, sure, but it serves no point. If you're going to hack something, at least make the end result worthwhile."

      The same can be said for most things posted on Slashdot.

      Esp. all the god damn case mods.

    2. Re:Why not knock it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, but this is actually an exercise in analytical thinking, which IS useful. Think of all the people who turn the most unlikliest of computers into web servers. Remember the web server running on a gameboy advance? Sure, it's not really practical and essentially useless, but 1. it's still a cool hack, and (most importantly) 2. the person who created it probably learned a shitload in the process.

      And besides, what do YOU do with your *days*? Watch TV? Look at pr0n? Play Counterstrike with your friends? If you (as in the parent poster) live a single day without doing a single productive thing, then you have no right to knock what this person did.

  48. Go Linux kernel by be-fan · · Score: 1

    I'd like to point out how well this speaks of the Linux kernel. By making the architecture generic and orthagonal, it allows you to do cool (if useless) stuff like this. Contrast this to Windows, where every API is extremely specifc, and you'll realize why Linux/UNIX is infinately better.

    --
    A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    1. Re:Go Linux kernel by noshellswill · · Score: 0

      Yawn ... groan ... say it again, Pad're till it does hurt any more - options are BAD ... always BAD.

  49. Putting my C64s to good use by grondak · · Score: 1

    Finally! I can put my stacks and stacks of C64s to good use! I'll just make them into a "huge" MTD!

    Some assembly required.

    --
    [Error 407: No signature found]
    1. Re:Putting my C64s to good use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you doing? Stockpiling them to raise prices??

      Jeez, man. Donate 'em to a museum or somethin'!! :D

  50. About Lingam Gnosis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Lingam gnosis is based on the belief that all penises fall into one of four broad essential categories, or types fire, air, earth and water. Most commonly, however, penises are a combination of two or more of these types.

    The Earth Penis
    Earth penises are relatively easy to identify as they resemble tuberous vegetables yams, potatoes, turnips etc. Those thick, starchy roots that grow best when buried deep in dark, damp soil. Earth penises are generally large, often irregularly shaped, and darkly pigmented. The testicles that accompany the earth penis are likely to be large, hairy and pendulous. The earth penis is homely and supremely functional, it likes to plant and plow, and itís likely to belong to the top in any relationship. Earth penises typically correspond with meat and potatoes sexual tastes. If your man has an earth penis don't expect anything too outragous. He might like it rough, but he'll always keep it simple-like himself. Oh, I almost forgot to mention, if he's carrying one of these brutes in his Calvins, chances are he aint too bright.

    The Air Penis
    Air penises are generally long, slim and pale, with neat, globular, lightly pigmented testicles, carried high and tight. The most aesthetically pleasing of the types, the air penis is an artistic penis, and their owners are often artistic. It is common for an air penis to have a bend or a dip in its length, and just as this penis is often not quite straight, the owner of an air type penis is the most likely of all the types to have bisexual tendencies. If your lover has an air penis, commitment could be an issue air penises are notoriously unfaithful and fickle. However, once captured, air penis types make the most intelligent and imaginative sexual partners.

    The Fire Penis
    Fire is the most masculine of the elements, and a fire penis always correlates with an aggressive, assertive, controlling nature. A typical fire penis is thick, straight, symmetrical and smooth, though not especially long. The defining characteristic of the fire penis, however, is its color bright red, through to an intense hot pink. Men with a fire penis in their pants have a burning sexuality and charisma to burn, too. There are always plenty of moths dying to dance around this flame! But before you singe your wings, remember: sex with the owner of a fire penis can be hot as hell, but life with one is usually just plain hell, so if your intended unzips one of these crimson lollipops, zip it up quick and move on.

    The Water Penis
    Water is the most feminine of the elements, and, accordingly, water type penises are often small, soft and feminine in appearance. Owners of water penises are generally nurturers in their relationships; they will cook, clean, iron and give it up with an almost touching if it wasnít so fucking irritating sense of duty. Occasionally, this taking on of the motherly role can lead them to assume the balance of power within a relationship for the other partner this is both claustrophobic and scary, particularly when they find themselves fucking them and enjoying it! Water penis owners are often very highly sexed organisms, especially when alcohol is added. For a water penis, a couple of G&Ts is a never-fail legs-opener.

    This +1 Informative post has been brought to you by SweetAndSourJesus

  51. Re:Go home please, Linux kernel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, useless shite like this is really cool. Plus you CAN do the same thing in Windows, if you know the API's and have a clue. Stupid kid. Learn DirectX. Learn how to spell. Then get a life.

  52. Water type penis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How the f*ck can a penis look feminine?! :-)

    1. Re:Water type penis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you haven't been to New York or SF have you?

  53. Been there, done that by leighklotz · · Score: 2

    Although Alan Kay et. al. designed the Xerox Alto to use 80% of its resources for the Graphical User Interface (the real innovation -- understanding that the purpose of the computer is its user interface), SmallTalk needed extra memory and used the bottom part of the screen video memory for its stack. As a result, you could see when something crashed or went into infinite recursion.

  54. Re:anyone remember velvet jones.... eddie murphy s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you ever stimulated your anus? It can feel quite good, even to heterosexuals.

  55. Probably I am the only one who used this trick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting


    I used this trick long long times back. I was a unix programmer but was using DOS based gateway so that I can use the novell servers in NYNEX ( you may remember who NYNEX was ). I was running short of memory by about 10 - 20K bytes and finally used this video ram for keeping my data structure. There were about 11 TSRs you needed to load to get IP and IPX stack going on DOS.

    If your voice mail boxes work even today ( unless they threw away the code ... ) in NY/CT and also in all the BellSouth area in Florida/Texes and other souther states then you know that this worked.

    Anyway, these are not the brightest momenst of my programming life but sure was interesting.

    1. Re:Probably I am the only one who used this trick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was actually commonplace on the C64 with cracked games and demos. A lot of them used the $400-$7ff default screen memory space to store decompressors (e.g., Time Cruncher).

      -t

    2. Re:Probably I am the only one who used this trick by LoztInSpace · · Score: 1

      I used video ram to do some indexing and sorting once because the closest thing to a disk cache we had was BUFFERS=20 It worked fine until I tried it on an Apricot machine. The disk read would DMA direct to the destination memory and the old VRAM didn't quite know what to make of that.

    3. Re:Probably I am the only one who used this trick by ElfKnight · · Score: 1
      > I used this trick long long times back.

      This was also used a long time back in the Acorn RiscPC (RISC OS ) - any spare VRAM was automatically added to the system memory. It was a big deal when you only had 8MB main RAM but 4MB VRAM...I guess things have come full circle now that video cards have so much memory.

      --
      -- I would have got out of bed earlier...but I was asleep.
  56. Great place to place viral code? by eddy · · Score: 3

    Just kidding. No one would be nasty and put viral code where no scanner has gone before.

    --
    Belief is the currency of delusion.
  57. Definitely not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The AGP deal is a driver problem, not an issue with AGP or PCI itself.

  58. (and yes, I know about putting stuff in VGA-mem) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...at 0xA000:0 on IBM-compatibles, like some stealth-viruses going from MBR->main mem did, IIRC.

    Oh great, must wait two minutes. How queer.

  59. Isn't this what Quartz Extreme is all about? by JohnsonWax · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Basically Apple is finding a use for all of that VRAM while users are futzing around not playing 3D games. Granted, it's finding interesting ways to accelerate 2D video and using the AGP to pull from main RAM as well, but it's in the same sprit as stuffing random data in there.

    Rather than buy an extra card for this purpose, the question to ask is how much of that 128MB am I using day-to-day. If the answer is *none* (as Apple determined) then this is a good thing.

    1. Re:Isn't this what Quartz Extreme is all about? by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2

      The answer is never none, since the framebuffer has to be stored in video RAM.

  60. in a word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    subst. if you *REALLY* want memory as a drive. UGH.

  61. 128 megs!!! by SiIverFish · · Score: 2, Insightful

    wow! 128 megs of ram! for the low low price of only $400!!!! yeah, maybe in 1994!

  62. Re:"editors"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been reading slashdot for a year or two now and I can tell that no human touches submissions before they are posted. The frequently maligned 'slashdot editor' that does not do any spell/grammar checking is probably vi or emacs, not any human. I think it is likely a legal dodge that submissions are not remangled before braodcasting, leaving the liability of such information at the feet of the original submittor.

  63. And oh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..thank you for not moderating it above 2. It's not interesting. It's not insightful. It's barely funny and - oh my gawd - it isn't a troll.

    A score of two is just about right. How about that poster-sets-max-score option, developers?

  64. Re:Go home please, Linux kernel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mod the parent up. The original poster was a fucking tool.

  65. Why so much RAM? by yancey · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've often wondered why operating systems today require so much RAM in the first place. Most people just want to browse the web, check their email, and perhaps play some music. Why does Windows, or any other OS, require such resources to pull off these relatively simple tasks?

    --
    Ouch! The truth hurts!
    1. Re:Why so much RAM? by EvilNTUser · · Score: 1

      "I've often wondered why operating systems today require so much RAM in the first place. Most people just want to browse the web, check their email, and perhaps play some music. Why does Windows, or any other OS, require such resources to pull off these relatively simple tasks?"

      Because surfing the web at 640x480x4bpp with one font loaded and a UI that looks like it's from the 80's isn't all that enjoyable :-)

      But seriously, if we start listing all the small improvements in Windows XP since Windows 3.1 (ok so that's not the first version, but the first I've used) we end up with a large amount of used resources even though one improvement in itself doesn't require all that much.

      Here are some OS-level functions I really wouldn't want to live without even when just surfing:

      >=1600x1200x32 desktop with multiple monitor support
      Cleartype
      Pre-emptive multitasking with good memory management
      NTFS features
      32-bit icons (no, seriously, those eat memory too)
      The option of running apps as another user
      Knowing that pressing Ctrl-Alt-Del will always bring up the Windows UI and not some spyware pretending to be a logon prompt. (ok, so that's probably hackable too, but...)
      Firewall (ok so it's debatable whether one wants to use the MS one...)

      It is of course true that normal users don't know what half of these things are, but at the same time they're using them all the time. These things bring them security, stability, and convenience. If MS were to lower the memory requirements of Windows, most people would be screaming at them for making the OS uglier and less convenient.

      And please, no MS jokes. I'd apply the same reasoning to all OS's. Advanced users may of course browse the internet from a command prompt after having loaded Linux into the memory space of a wristwatch, but that's not what the average user wants.

      --
      My Sig: SEGV
    2. Re:Why so much RAM? by Elbereth · · Score: 2

      If you just want to get on the web, check your e-mail, and perhaps play some music, then why do you have a computer? Sell your PC and buy a PDA or cell phone.

      Why do operating systems require so much memory? They don't. You can get onto the internet with a 486DX/33, 340MB IDE hard drive, 16MB RAM, 14" VGA monitor, Windows 95 (or Linux 1.x), and 14.4Kbps modem. Floppy drive optional.

      In fact, about two or three years ago, I bought a system like that for $50 ($25 for the 486 PC and $25 for the VGA monitor). I used it as a web server, after I dug up a USRobotics Courier v.34ter (33.6K) external modem. I upgraded the flash ROM on the Courier to support 56Kbps, got a dial-up account at a local ISP, and installed RedHat 5.2 (the oldest RedHat CD I could find after searching for five minutes). The CDROM, one of the hard drives, a serial port, and some other miscellaneous hardware failed after a while, but it kept chugging on, until I finally replaced it with a DEC Multia.

      Why do operating systems today use so much RAM? Because of the User Experience. If you want to have a bunch of services (or daemons) running in the background, you're going to need lots of RAM. Do you want your applications to load quickly? Well, one option you have at your disposal is to partially load the application at bootup, then keep that portion in memory permanently. That eats up a lot of memory. Maybe you don't use the application so often, but you don't want it to take five minutes or more to load. Well, you can cache frequently accessed data, the directory structure, extended attributes, etc. Depending on how efficient your cache is, you can get away using small amounts or huge amounts of RAM. Of course, the law of diminishing returns applies here, as well.

      Speaking of efficiency, take a look at the programs written for MS DOS in the early 1980s. Most of them were written in assembler. When people started using higher level languages, the memory footprint increased (tremendously, in some cases, where inexperienced programmers did not optimize their code at all, allowing that faster processors and more memory would cover up their experience). When developers use object oriented, interpreted, high level languages, the memory footprint explodes and the execution speed becomes unbearable, except under the fastest processors. Try running a large Java application on your 486/33 or Pentium 75. I bet it won't run too quickly.

      Why does the operating system provide all these services, features, and user experience goodies? Because users want the operating system to do so. If you don't, then try using a real-time, microkernel based operating system. QNX is an example of this. MSDOS, a glorified program loader, is a somewhat decent example of a minimalist kernel distributed with the bare minimum of tools necessary to boot up a PC. It probably couldn't even boot up some modern PCs, given that it is a 16 bit real-mode app, and we're pushing the boundaries of 32 bit computing.

      In short, features suck up bandwidth, speed, and memory. You can't run XP on a 486, because it preloads IE6 (and other apps) into memory at bootup, caches everything, runs as resolutions unsupported by your Trident 8900C video card, and has so many things popping up, sliding away, and running in the background, your poor 486 processor and ISA video card would be unable to keep up.

      Nobody said you had to upgrade beyond your 486/33 and MSDOS 6.x. It still works just fine, I'm sure, and you'll probably notice that WordPerfect for DOS loads up extremely quickly.... much faster than Office XP does.

      Why do people upgrade? They want programs to have talking, dancing paper clips. WordPefect for DOS doesn't even have a single wizard, just a text help screen.

    3. Re:Why so much RAM? by Com2Kid · · Score: 1

      Dude, the freaking printer spooler takes up nearly 4 megabytes of RAM.

      When IN ACTIVE.

      SVhost, which should be (if I recall correctly) just a cache of DLLs, hey somewhat useful right, well under 2K you had one, maybe two copies of it running.

      XP has three, four, sometimes five copies of it running. Taking up 32, 16, 8 megabytes. I have seen all of the various incarnations of SVhost together taking up well over 100 megabytes cumulative on an XP box!! (this was on a fresh install of XP pro mind you)

      !

      Just DLL caches.

      100 megabytes.

      WTF

      The problem is not the features, the problem is that all of those features could have been implemented with far less overhead

      And of course as a bonus, an order of magnitude or so less code would mean a less likely chance of bugs as well.

      Heck BeOS proved that you can have an advanced and kick ass looking operating system without taking up multiple gigabytes of HD space and hundreds of megabytes of RAM, but thing is, MS doesn't care, they just get the code out as easy as they can and profit as much as they can from it. Quality or efficiency does not enter into it.

    4. Re:Why so much RAM? by Utopia · · Score: 1

      SVChost is not a cache of DLLs.
      It is as its name implies a Service Host.
      Some services are implemented in DLLs. Svchost creates the host process to run these services.
      Svchost barely takes up any memory. Its the dll service which account for the bulk of memory used.

      KB Q250320 describes how to identify what services are using svchost.

    5. Re:Why so much RAM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, my main machine is this:

      Pentium MMX-200 CPU
      128 MB RAM
      2 Meg Cirrus logic SVGA card
      Adaptec 2940AU SCSI controller
      8-Speed SCSI CD-ROM drive

      and it runs Linux 2.4.19 perfectly adequately for me.

  66. memory hell, what about that GPU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there any way to recruit the GPU as a second CPU to speed up my kernel compiles? Now THAT would be a truly cool hack!

    Spammenot.

  67. geel == geek appeal ??? by XNormal · · Score: 2

    i think this technique is for the geel of it, not really for the practicality.

    Never heard this one before. If it's a typo you may have just coined new jargon.

    --
    Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
  68. But... by diesel66 · · Score: 1

    who will have spare VRAM after installing Doom 3?

    --



    eleven plus two / twelve plus one
  69. Re:Don't knock it, it's still a cool hack. by hitzroth · · Score: 1

    Half the hacks posted on Slashdot tend to be next to useless anyways.

    And the other half are kind of like modern art. You know, the sort of thing where -- if you understand it -- the only reasonable response is: "What the fuck? That's pretty cool."

    --
    In mathematics, one does not understand things, one merely gets used to them.
    --VonNeumann
  70. Re:anyone remember velvet jones.... eddie murphy s by djn · · Score: 1

    Hey, come on, give the guy a break! He is Polish, after all.

    /me dodges thrown fruit. (I'm Polish too, so don't get your panties all in a knot).

  71. I could do this with CF on a wintel machine.. by way2trivial · · Score: 0

    I have a CF card reader that works as a small drive I could certainly put the Swap file on it.

    upto a 512 mb, it's slower than ram, but faster than a hard drive..

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  72. We've been here before actually by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 2

    My old amiga could do this. My A1200 had 2 megs of vram and when its 8 megs of fast ram was used up the system would often start moving into that memory. Thing is it slowed down the computer considerably.

    Even my A3000 can do this with Cybervision (RTG software) once fast ram was used up it could use the memory on the video card as zorro expansion memory (ie memory attached to the system expansion bus).

    Neat thing was it did this all dynamically and automatically - without you having to specify space or anything.

    1. Re:We've been here before actually by Carl+Drougge · · Score: 1

      And here I was, just looking to see if this was posted already.. =)

      However I don't think CV put the gfxcard in the memlist. I know P96 doesn't. It woulnd't make much sense anyway, since AmigaOS doesn't allow you to force anything out of the memory once it's been claimed by exec.. (And the overhead of checking if exec has allocated some of your memory probably wouldn't be so small either..)

      For normal chip-ram this doesn't apply, since graphics.library uses exec to keep track of memory anyway, and thus must have it in the memlist. (Or its own pool, but I guess it was a bit late for that by the time mempools where supported..)

      Under linux you could add chip ram as swap though. And probably at least some gfx cards. I'm pretty sure Merlin cards could be run as fast ram under AmigaOS, as long as you were willing to reboot before you could use it for gfx again.

    2. Re:We've been here before actually by IcePic · · Score: 1

      Linux-m68k for amigaOS had a /dev/z2ram-device that
      could take memory from "anyplace" including CV64
      onboard memory. I did this a lot when 16M ram was
      "ok" and those extra 4M's on the gfxcard made a
      difference.
      Under AmigaOS, you could pick up an "AddMem" program
      and just add the memory at 0x41400000. Even though it
      wasn't added to the free list for amigaos, it was
      always mapped into the memoryspace.

      --
      -- I'm as unique as everyone else.
    3. Re:We've been here before actually by vidarh · · Score: 2
      Actually all Amiga's back to the original A1000 can do that. The Amigas essentially had two memory buses: One for the CPU and all the auxilliary chips (referred to as "chipram" - this included the video chip, timers, audio, etc.) and one that was exclusively accessible by the CPU ("fastram")

      Some models came only with chipram as default.

      Running programs from "chipram" was slow, since the CPU was unable to access it and would have to wait whenever any of the other chips accessed it.

      When you allocated memory, you could choose to request a specific type of memory (if you needed the memory to be accessible to the auxilliary chips, you'd request chip ram, if you needed the speed you'd request fastram) or not care, in which case fast ram was allocated unless there was no big enough block of fastram available.

    4. Re:We've been here before actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..the A1200 model, for example, shipped
      with 2Mb of memory which was ALL 'chipram'
      memory (usable by video,sound and CPU)
      this has the 50% CPU contention ratio.

      The 'trapdoor' expansion slot allows
      'accelerator cards' - cards with a faster
      CPU on board - eg 68030,040,060 and even
      PowerPC 603e's to be added to the system
      (disabling the onboard 14MHz 020) but
      even a plain memory add-on doubled
      the basic speed of the A1200 from 2MIPS to
      4MIPS - why? because memory on that trapdoor
      is 'fastmem' only - only the CPU can access it
      so no contention and the OS uses it preferentially
      (unless code specifies otherwise).

      of course, with the first batch of new generation games came problems....games that didnt expect
      data to be in FASTRAM...or ran wrongly at the
      full A1200 speed.

      ideally the A1200 would have been shipped with
      a SIMM slot with 4MB loaded in (memory was pricey
      back then) that users could easily upgrade to 8Mb
      or it should have had a 33MHz 030 *WITH* FPU :-)

    5. Re:We've been here before actually by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 2

      Your probably right - it might have been some cv option I was playing around with. I still have the computer. I do remember you could access rtg memory as fastram with the right hack.

    6. Re:We've been here before actually by Carl+Drougge · · Score: 1

      /dev/z2ram seems like a bad name if it really could take stuff above 2^24, but I guess the first name sticks..

      Of course you could always add it to the memlist by hand, that doesn't count. =) (Surely everyone knows the Amiga has a nice big 4gig address space into which everything, both mem and io, is put? (Big at the time, that is.))

  73. Re:"editors"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can tell that no human touches submissions before they are posted

    Have you ever submitted a story and had it accepted? The editors do touch them. There are numerous examples of the submitter posting a comment apologising for the errors that have been introduced.

    And this isn't just hearsay ... I've had story titles changed between submission and posting, fortunately I haven't had errors introduced on my behalf <touch wood>

  74. That's what editors are for... by HishamMuhammad · · Score: 1

    ...at least supposedly.
    Unfortunately editing is not one of
    Slashdot's strengths.

  75. Watch out for AGP rates... by Tjp($)pjT · · Score: 1

    Not all AGP cards / systems have symetrical transfer rates. Some AGP combinations are quite slow reading from the card. An order of magnitude slower in some cases.

    Economics as well since the cost per byte for the VRAM is considerable compared to the cost of increasing the system memory.

    --
    - Tjp

    I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!

    1. Re:Watch out for AGP rates... by non-poster · · Score: 0

      Hmm.. AGP RAM, where reading is an order of magnitude slower than other RAM, or a hard disk which is several orders of magnitude slower than RAM... Which one would I like to have as my primary swap space...

  76. servers anyone? by Praeluceo · · Score: 2

    I don't know about anyone else in here, but I actually plan on trying to implement this. We all seem to be overlooking one great big niche here: servers. I run an AMD K6-II as my server, it has a single stick of 128 MB RAM. It also has an old 4 MB video card in an AGP 2x slot, that means I can add 4 MB of 132 MHz RAM, totalling my physical RAM out to 132 MB. No, that isn't very much, but hey, do I run X on my server?
    No.
    Do I have a video card sitting in my AGP slot?
    Yes.
    Is there a legitimate reason -not- to use that card for something at least?
    NO!!!

    Sure, my desktop has 512 MB RAM, and 64 MB VRAM, I don't need to dip into that extra RAM, but for my server, that's 4 more MB that I have available now before I have to access a terribly slow swap file. Besides, isn't this the main use of *NIX anyway, webserving? All modern PCs have AGP slots now, if you run your own server, and it has a PII or newer, chances are good it has AGP support, at -least- 1x. Chances are also good you have a video card lying around. So why not do something cool with it, rather than collect dust?

    Just a thought guys.

  77. Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They never ask themselves "Why?" before writing these nonsense articles.

  78. if only.. by Suppafly · · Score: 2

    now if only i could find "one of these cheap 128MB graphics cards" so I could "enjoy the speed"

  79. Reminds me of GUS (the sound card) by holviala · · Score: 1
    Back when computers commonly had 4 megs of memory and MS-DOS, Gravis UltraSound was the k3w1es7 sound card to have. The nice thing about it was it's build in sample memory; base model had 256 KB's but you could upgrade it to a full meg.

    Well, someone got bored one day and coded a ramdisk driver for MSDOS and GUS so that you could use the extra ram (games were only using the lowest 256 KB's) as an ramdisk.

    I remember downloading that driver from an BBS back in the day; it worked ok, but since I rarely used more than a meg or two out of my 4 megs anyway it wasn't of any use.....

  80. hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stupidist news item, ever.

  81. Second Video card by Hellraisr · · Score: 0

    this may be useful for those old video cards that you never use anymore. I've got a 16MB Voodoo Banshee I don't use anymore.. I wonder if it would be possible to install it for an extra 16MB of RAM? I wouldn't be wasting a good video card then, and I have another one that I use as my primary.

  82. Looks like an old hack I used to do on my 8086 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I did this with my vga on my 8086 just to have a few more kb. Didn't want to do this anymore with current machines, but the use for thin clients is pretty handy. Probably will try it out.

  83. Assumptions by bushboy · · Score: 1

    Well, I have one AGP slot, I'm running win2k for software compatability reasons, I don't even have 64meg of ram on my card, let alone 128meg and I run graphic intensive applications.

    Guess that rules me out.

    One the other hand, my Linux server has a whopping 2meg of ram on it's video card - yes - I'll add that to the 512meg already there to make an amazing difference in performance !

    --
    A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
  84. Performance issues when reading from an AGP card by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if the author ever benchmarked this. Reading back from AGP-cards is usually horribly slow. Much much MUCH slower than writing. The article that was posted on slashdot a couple of weeks ago shows why it is a bad idea to treat the VRAM as general purpose ram.

  85. cool, now all we need is... by __aahlyu4518 · · Score: 2

    a way to use the unused processor power of that gfx card to run an extra seti@home ;-)

  86. Gamecube audio ram by mypalmike · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is actually a fairly common practice in Gamecube programming, only using audio ram. The GC has a measly 24 Megs of main ram and a whopping 16 Megs of audio ram. The transfer is reasonably fast, and it certainly makes it easier to port a PS2 engine which from the PS which has 32 Megs. There was an article in Game Developer not too long ago about automating this as virtual ram using the PowerPC's memory-mapping capabilities rather than the manual approach usually taken.

    --
    There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
  87. Re: geel == geek feel ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't you think it's "geek feel" of it, instead of geek appeal? Anyway, it's either a very clever typo or a new entry in the new hackers dictionary.

  88. Cost per byte by Cardbox · · Score: 1

    If you already have the card installed anyway then the cost per byte is zero.

    If you have a spare video card that you're not using, then the cost per byte is zero.

    If you have a choice between a card with more RAM and a card with less RAM, then the cost per byte may be small (positive), zero, or even negative, depending on the marketing strategies of the respective card manufacturers.

  89. GeForce4 MX 420 PCI by Chas · · Score: 1

    GeForce4 MX 420 PCI.

    OR

    Radeon 7000 PCI.

    Both 64MB cards. And both with RAM that's considerably faster than EDO/FP (or even PC100 SDR SDRAM)

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  90. But.... by Chas · · Score: 1

    How much of your system RAM is running at 5-600Mhz and dual-ported?

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  91. I knew other machines would eventually catch up!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know, Amigas did this from day 1. And they did it better.

    In an Amiga system, you had unified memory, some of which ("chip ram") was accessible to the custom chips, which primarily included the video and audio subsystems.

    The standard memory allocation function call allowed you to specify which type of memory you needed to allocate -- ANY, CHIP, or FAST (fast being faster than chip ram because there were no bus contention problems, as I understand it).

    Anyway, the Amiga also had a ramdisk device (accessible on your desktop as "Ram Disk", and mapped to the "RAM:" drive). This was the standard place that had the subdirectories t and clips, the temporary storage space and clipboard were mapped to, respectively.

    Anyway, it was common, when programming an Amiga, to notice the hooks for warm and cold resets when reading docs. I recall many sideways glances at the system.

    So I guess it was a small step to make the Recoverable Ramdisk Device (RRD:). I can't remember what I used it for specifically now, but I certainly used it, and I liked it a lot.

    As a final note, since someone mentioned using the video subsystem's blitter for normal tasks... this was VERY common on the Amiga, too. The blitter was a very powerful, well-known, and well-respected feature of the machines, and so was not taken lightly. I think the standard memory copy function calls used this feature whenever possible. It was certainly used for disk-related transfers (although I'm not sure exactly how), and for any other time when it would be more beneficial.

    All of this was done with a little innovation, and without the benefit of things like MMUs.

    In short, Linux could learn a lot from this. And I hope it does.

  92. interesting.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just how close are current gfx boards to DSPs? I mean, I don't really know what's so special about DSPs, but I assume they're basically MIMD floating point workhorses, or something?

    We've all heard of using the blitters for shifts, xors, etc. And modern chips have all these new 3d-capabilities, including some really cool programmable textures and things.

    Does anyone know just how powerful all of this could be if used optimally in a system? I suspect that Apple's new approach with quartz is just scratching the surface.

  93. Combine with slow disk swap? by Zo0ok · · Score: 2

    I have got a Pentium 200 MMX with 128 Mb of ECC EDO, no free memory slots. It sounds quite fair to buy a 64 Mb PCI graphics card for less than $100, if I could use like 60 Mb for fast swap.

    BUT: What if I put 60 MB swap on this fast VRAM-swap, and another 256 MB swap on an old, rotten and slow IDE drive? Will Linux detect that the first swap is faster and make extensive use of it, or will the slow 256 MB swap ruin my performance anyways?

    1. Re:Combine with slow disk swap? by adb · · Score: 1

      Linux will not automatically detect which swap is faster, but you can set the "prio" option in /etc/fstab or whatever script runs swapon to set the priorities at which swap will be used.

  94. At LAST! An Amiga user... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you remember RAD: the recoverable RAM disk? You could *BOOT* from it, that was the coolest thing ever.

    Also, RAM: could be a *dynamic* ram disk that got bigger and smaller on demand. Very cool.

    We need a bootable/dynamic/recoverable RAM disk in the Linux kernel NOW! :-)

  95. distributed.net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now if I can just get it to use the idle processor usage on my video card for distributed.net......

  96. Re:Go home please, Linux kernel by be-fan · · Score: 2

    I never said that you couldn't do the same thing in Windows. I said that it speaks well of the UNIX APIs that such obscure functionality can be access through entirely generic APIs. The fact that you can just go ahead and use standard mmap functions to map random bits of memory is genuinely cool to those (like me) who value some elegence and beauty in software architecture. And thanks for the great example, by the way. DirectX is exactly what I'm talking about. Specific APIs to access generic functionality. Why should I have to use a different API to map graphics memory vs mapping regular memory vs mapping a file? Its just not clean! But it characterizes the Windows way of doing things.

    PS> As for the comments about my intelligence and my spelling:

    1) I've known DirectX since I was in the tenth grade. Learned Win32 just after I learned the C++ standard library.

    2) I just got off summer break, it was late at night, and I was typing that on a laptop keyboard, so fuck off!

    --
    A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
  97. most of you have it wrong by Krashed · · Score: 1

    Yes, you can use the memory from your video card as a fast storage medium. Some of you are saying that you can store files to swap around and stuff like that, video card memory is just like system memory, it goes away when turning off. Sure you can use the firmware storage but there is generally little left after you store the firmware.
    Then, NO, it won't increase your system memory. If you have 128 MB RAM you still will have only 128 MB of RAM. You just will have a temporary disk where you can then create a swap partition. Kinda like adding memory if you swap a lot but technically, you will still only have 128MB RAM.
    Finally if you have a 128 MB video card you will probably only get 127 MB of space from it since the card still needs memory for important things like video.

  98. Re:I knew other machines would eventually catch up by belg4mit · · Score: 1

    Some PC manufactures did this recently.. and called it "shared memory". I have a Monorail PC
    (it was a hardware division of Corel IIRC) that
    allocates (at a minimum, even with an offboard video card) 2M of the system memory for video.
    It sounds like a good idea, but if you happen to run something like windows and a bad application
    peeks where it oughtn't things get very nasty.
    (Rainbow Screen of Death)

    --
    Were that I say, pancakes?
  99. but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's so much faster though...
    also...the coolness factor is way up there.

  100. Wonder if this would work for.... by Eldin · · Score: 1

    I wonder if I could get this to work with memory from a Soundblaster AWE 32? I have an old 486 that I use, and the sound card can slot up to 32MB, which is as much memory as the system itself has. If I could use that as swap space, it should be much faster than swap space on the harddrives.