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New Small Form Factor PC Reviewed
Beau Mundt writes "You guys haven't touched on the small form factor PCs in a while, thought you
would be interested in this
review of a Lex System SFF PC. Its arguably the tiniest PC around and could
be used for many cool things like a Linux gateway, a wireless workstation, or
just a silent small foot print system. The other neat thing is the reviewer
stuffs a P3 1.26 and a Radeon 7500 into the system. Perfect for bringing to LANs!"
However I find that the main problem with going to LAN's is lugging a 17" monitor around, the case isn't really that big an issue. Of course having a smaller case that weighs less is always good.
I guess I'd rather spend my money on a TFT screen before one of these though.
VIA PLE133 Chipset, it's just an appliance. Buy it, show it off to your friends, get stuck with it.
man, you mods dont waste time on modding down. 10 seconds after i posted that, it was -1 offtopic.
Neat. But I'm not impressed until I can fit a 2ghz machine into my wallet. Which probably won't happend anytime soon, which is good because by the time 2ghz machines are that small they should be pretty cheap... I mean, so I can afford to sit down with the wallet in my back pocket ;).
They showed a bunch of pictures of this one- quite a bit smaller compared to other small form factor PCs - but how big are these compared to your average box?
this definitely has potential in the right place, the right place IMO being a wiring cupboard or somewhere else where space is at a real premium. I wouldn't use it as a standard desktop, purely because if you have space for a monitor you have space for a slightly larger unit (I'd hope).
I wouldn't say the savings of a few inches are enough to make me use a laptop hard drive and one of those crappy 'blade' (or whatever) CD roms that you can't just swap out/upgrade/yada yada.
But then again, I like my PC's to have lots of growth space inside, YMMV.
In the example of a Linux gateway or wireless workstation, there is a better solution. Buy a 1U rack mount case (they can be had for under $150 with a 300w power supply). They accept standard ATX motherboards and many have removable drives.
With this method, you can use any off-the-shelf parts to repair the system.
This is the method I use for a webserver and Linux firewall. I have both mounted (among other things) in a old telecom cabinet. Works like a charm.
[austin powers] It's not the size, man, it's how you use it! [/austin powers]
it does not seem like a review at all. Instead, it is a full load of marketing words without any neutral statements. No data to base decisions on. I have seen more neutral marketing brochures.
Maybe this one has a big volume but fits better in hidden places ; )c ategory=128&products_id=1628&
http://www.lik-sang.com/catalog/product_info.php?
Why isn't this used more often? It would be the first step to the ultimate silent pc. Is there any reason why an external power supply doesn't make sense for all desktops? I realize that many of them use the fans for heat exhaust, but with a well-placed rear fan, this problem is negated.
Is that a real poncho? I mean, is that a Mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
here
I like the Shuttle boxes, because you can stuff standard parts in them, standard drives and the likes.
This however, has too many limitations to be of use to me. Sure, you can attach a lot of USB peripherals (Is it USB 2? I didn't see that in the review), but if you want a PC small enough to lug around, then you don't want to lug three other boxes (all possibly with their own PSUs!).
Where is this going? Mobile computing is best served with a laptop, IMHO. The costs for good performance are high, enough so to put off LAN partiers on a budget.
These boxes fill that niche, but I think that this one in particular is crippled too much by the laptop hard drive, slimline CD, less expansion, etc.
If you want an appliance at home, this is no good either. Server? At the moment the max 2.5" HDD is 60 Gigs, I think. and if the machine breaks, you can't just buy another PSU, for example, and slot it in the box - it's all non-standard. Buy a proper server and shove it in a closet, or quieten it down with custom fans and heatsinks.
Other appliances? There are cheaper custom-built mp3 streamers, DVD-recording video recorders, and so on available.
This thing is a no-no, in my opinion.
Note to ACs: I won't mod you up, even if you are being funny or insightful. So take a chance! It's not real life!
I thinking that with a 12v power supply, these
things would make one hell of a Car PC.
Just Think MP3/CD/Maping programs all load
and ready to go. Since it even has room for
a PCI card, you could even use it as an advanced
NET STUMBLING device with a PCI To PCMCIA Card.
Those cases have been around a while. I built quite a few systems with them when working for a small-time pc manufacturer 6-7 years ago. Guts may have changed somewhat, but the layout is identical. Hopefully they don't overheat as much as they used to.
Don't go anywhere in the text region with your mouse or else the thing turns maroon! Cross compatiwha?
JOhn
Campaign for Liberty
with a well placed rear fan, comes well placed rear fan noise, so where's the saving? Although in principle, I do agree that external PSUs have their place, especially if they have connections at both ends (psu and mobo). That way, you can store all your PSU's in one location, along with a couple of spares, and if one fries, just unplug and move to another one.
Better still, RAID PSU's.....
Shuttle SS40
Gigabyte G-MAX Series
The Good: CD-Rom Drive
The Bad: Price ($200 USD)
...but it's taken a while for small boxies to make a return. One of my favourites (an obsession, even) are my Quadra 605s. Only marginally larger than the Lex reviewed, and about 8 years older.
One big bonus of the SFF pizzaboxes is the incredible ease of -getting- to components. All placed on one layer, there's no tangling of cables, or need to remove one major component to reach the others.
A pretty decent structure for a box that doesn't need to be constantly expanded/changed.
a grrl & her server
It is interesting (and frustrating) how my focus changes every few years on how I want my complete computing enviiornment to be setup. I, like most people started with a single system and when that system became a bit slow at running new software (read games) I upgraded it.
After several upgrades of various components I found that I had pretty much all the parts I needed to build a second PC. So I did. Now with two computers I HAD to network them. As family members aquired computers they were hooked into the (peer-to-peer) LAN as well to the point of needing a server which was built and added.
As time went on some desktops were replaced by smaller and more portable laptops and even the desktops were replaced with smaller versions of desktops. But each machine had a specific purpose (server, gaming machine) or specific user.
After leaving college (I am going to skip the college years as they are in a bit of a mental haze) and starting out on my own with little (no) money I found it more cost/space (small apartment) effective to have one super machine that could do everything.
Several years later having paid off my debts and having purchased a larger place to live, I find that my ideal computing enviornment consists of 1 laptop, 1 desktop gaming machine and a gateway/server.
But as soon as the manufacturers produce the super fast cpu/fastest graphics chip available/etc/etc with 3d holographic projecting graphics PC in a 3" cube form factor, I'll trade them all in!
I haven't seen one yet. So, I might be wrong and they might already be readily available.
Here's the thing, I have a nice Sony WEGA Trinitron TV in the living room. I am also wiring the whole house for CAT-5. My plans include having a central "Media Server" to house all my music files.
Next to the TV will sit a PC with a connection to the TV, the stereo and the home network. I like the idea of a small form-factor system, partly due to the low-cost associated with some of these designs. I would really like to see one with a built-in S-video port.
-.-
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
What is the price and where can I get discounts on volume?
I'd love an Nforce chipset based Athlon miniPC with matching 15" LCD that could be thrown in a duffel bag. Perfect for lan parties!
Research "As mentioned above, the Lex Thin-800E is the smallest case we have ever looked at." Here is one for the author to look at that is smaller than the one they reviewed: http://www.caseoutlet.com/NWPc/Sumi/Sumi.html
See the subject and sing it to the tune of that annoying dell "dude".
It's one thing to see cool gadgets and newer stuff. It's another to be bothered with a review of something that's just rudimentary.
Sa-la-vee and I can already feel the heat from your flames.
all original amigas had external power BRICKS.
Sure they took floor space but they had no fans
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
However I find that the main problem with going to LAN's is lugging a 17" monitor around, the case isn't really that big an issue. Of course having a smaller case that weighs less is always good.
HUH? get an LCD and quit whining.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
While the reviewed was a cute little slimline case, check out this: http://www.shuttleonline.com/spec.php3?model=ss51 Aluminum case, 1 pci, 1 agp slot....very nice. M
You said arguably the smallest, and I'm gonna argue.
First things first, the Lex system *is* neat because of the socket 370, but it edges out the Via Eden platform in one dimension by 10mm. Doesn't sound like a lot, unless you're making some really cool custom pc's.
In fact, I've built my own router (running Linux of course) in a 1/10th scale Celica using the VIA. 10mm more in either dimension and it wouldn't have fit. In fact, it looks just like the two projects I just now linked.
The via comes in 500 and 866 mhz flavors, and pulls VERY little power resulting in a low heat motherboard/processor solution. There's so little heat, they don't even put a fan on the processor, which is great when you have your 1/10th scale Celica routing your dsl in your living room where you want to hear other people and/or the tv instead of the computer.
So for those needing those extra mhz, the lex looks like a good solution. But for a Linux gateway/router and a couple other applications, the slower C3's do just fine, but pull less power and have the possibility of going completely fan free (if you can find a fan-free powersupply).
A PC case that has the same form-factor as the rest of my HIFI seperates system. Ideally something that looks indistinguishable from a DVD player, so I can stick it in the rack.
I'm sure that the mobo's etc used in modern desktops could be used to give it a decent spec, my TV would make a adequate Monitor for the sorts of uses I have in mind; games/div-x/MP3 Playing, DIgital image viewing etc.. given a front-pane USB/Firewire and cordless mouse/keyboard etc..
I'm sure there is a market for a case like this, but have never seen one outside of a one-off special made by a decent modder (which I could do, but probably rather badly..)
"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
"The Lex case ships with an external power supply which allows the PC to be as small as it is, while also cutting out a major noise factor in the PC."
Isn't this kind of cheating. I've got a PC the size of a cable. It's just got this external power supply and mother board and cdrom and floppy....
And it's not like the case was smaller than say, a laptop. I don't get what's the big deal. If I want small, I'd go with a laptop. If I want a desktop, I want it big enough to add stuff, and not to have extra parts like a power supply to drag around.
www.soekris.com. www.embsd.org. www.microbsd.net
Sounds like potential competition for /.'s sponsor, Cappucino!
Anyone know what the black PS/2 looking connector on the right of the middle side is for. It's marked with what looks like a LAN symbol. Any ideas ?
With the 533MHz CPU, it needs no CPU fan, and is still plenty zippy for all of your favorite gateway tasks--we use them for web caching, DHCP, DNS caching, masquerading, NATting, routing micro-uber-boxes. Even with all of those services running, these little boxes will push a T1 line chock full of goodness with plenty of power to spare. We'd like it to be even smaller, of course, but I don't think the Lex box in question is the right way for us because we don't want a big hot Intel CPU in there.
We're popping an Intel dual NIC into the PCI slot for the firewall enhanced version (that's three NICs total), giving a nice Internal/DMZ/External separation in a very nice little low-power package.
Anyway, I'm enjoying the relative quiet of these boxes so much, that I'm considering getting an 800MHz one for my desktop machine. All of my real work goes on in the machine closet anyway, so I might as well have some peace, quiet, and an easily moveable machine out here in the civilized part of the office.
Is Slashdot wonky? Right now this story comes up as having been posted by CowboyNeal -- I can't remember ever seeing him as an author before. Except now a bunch of recent stories are also CowboyNeal posted. Am I losing my mind or is the slashcode on the fritz?
jf
Just for interest's sake, I took a look at the site. It says that the dimensions of this thing are 6.2cm x 27.2 cm x 25.2 cm.
Now, if you look at the Cappuccino TX-3, you see that it has dimensions 5.63 cm x 14.38 cm x 15 cm. That seems quite a bit smaller to me. So, I would find the claim that this is the tiniest PC around arguable indeed.
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
Ok, I've been looking for a place that actually sells this case [the second from the bottom on page one] LIKE crazy (for MAMEing in front of a TV... two USB ports in the front is great!)
Where, oh where, can I find this case? I've sorta been interested in the DIGN case but there are no USB ports in the front and it's insanely expensive.... so anyone know where I can get the Cupid 2677 with USB?
I've taken an interest in small PCs recently... and I'm sad to say this one again seems to pander to someone else's wish list. I'd like a small form factor PC to accepts a couple of standard size IDE H/Ds and CD/CRRW. I don't need video or a fast processor - should have Ethernet (for connectivity) and USB/serial/parallel (for peripherals) and run silently - i.e. without a fan.
I'd give it wireless and broadband and a printer and voila, desktop priced resources available to my laptop. Am I the only one looking for this?
The best thing I noted was the power jack marked "12VDC". The native DC power feature and small size make this a cool platform for mobile MP3/OGG player, navigation system, sound processor, etc.
-This sig intentionally left blank
Get a laptop and a USB mouse for aiming, and frag away.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Yeah it's been what? All of 4 days since the latest article on the Cappuccino?
/. to come up with a perpetually recurring topic category for small form factor cases and the other topics that seem to come up an average of once every two weeks?
and 42 days since the Shuttle SS51 XPC
Is it time for
okay.
Especially considering Monday's review http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/02/124523 8&mode=thread&tid=137
Lex = 6.2 (H) x 27.2 (W) x 25.2 (D) cm = 4274 cc
Mocha = 198x161x62 mm = 1976 cc
That looks like it is still larger than (and not nearly as cool looking as) my good ol' SparcClassic case. For small PCs, nothing can beat the size and shape of the Classic in my opinion...
Posted from the wireless couch.
VIA PLE133 Chipset, it's just an appliance. Buy it, show it off to your friends, get stuck with it.
So you really can't imagine a use for this? You don't think that it would be good for a firewall, mail server, web server, FTP server, file server, print server, fax server, NAT box, or some combination thereof?
Not every computer has to be used for first-person shooter games and attempts at setting SETI records.
They used a PCMCIA memory card for both permemant storage and RAM. Their cases were designed to allow heated air to escape out the top drawing cooler air form the bottom thus using natural conduction to do the work of the fan. I think they used a cyrix processor.
I used the CE boxes for admin staff that only used office apps (Word and Excell) from a Metaframe server. The Linux boxes were from people who needed more than casual access to the web (graphics over metaframe is not a great idea).
Anyway, I have been trying to remember the name of the companies I bought from while I have been typing this, but I can't. I have changed jobs and really had not thought about them for a long time. I could check my records when I get home if anybody really cares ( and nobody has replied with it by then.) I am pretty sure that WYSE makes them too.
___ I don't respond to Anonymous Cowards, and I Never Mod them UP.
The BriQ
http://www.totalimpact.com/briQ.html
http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/computing/5a98.shtm l
> Its arguably the tiniest PC around ...for the smallest form factor. I have a PC on my desk which is 15cm x 15cm x 4.5cm. (About the footprint of a CD case, but taller.) They're readily available under a host of different names. See www.paysan.co.uk for one supplier.
/. Editors:
e d) as the primary fitness test.
When training your personal neural net blurb-generating subsystem, pls set maximize(reader.knowledge-gain/reader.time-expend
In so doing you'll notice that when creating a story about another tiny PC, the price of the subject should be given, size and power, too.
"Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design
Not married just yet... However, I am engaged and she is perfectly okay with this idea. Besides that, none of what I am doing is going to run to expensive.
The cabling will cost me less then $100.00, probably including all of the tooling that I will need. The boxes for the wall jacks, might run around $100.00 or so, with the faceplates.
As for the servers and computers, I already have most of those. I might need to pick up one or two pieces of equipment, but that won't cost all that much.
-.-
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
But is it the most powerful destructive force in the two universes?
sic transit gloria mundi
these boxes from soldam are even smaller, and use the same boards (http://www.soldam.com/barebone/phrase/). i'm waiting for the ss51 however, so that i can install an agp board. but ultimately either a high power tablet without a keyboard integrated, or something like the oqo, would be the coolest. does anybody remember the brick computers from the late eighties/early nineties? they were quite nice for the time.
That I would prefer to be able to run with something that is fanless. I am thinking about one of those VIA Cyrix chips. I understand that they are very low-heat CPUs and would easily work for what I am needing.
All the living room PC would need to do is hook up to the media server to send digital music files into my receiver, surf the internet and possibly answer some E-mail.
For that, a Pentium IV is a bit of overkill. I also have no intention of even running a DVD player in that machine. The unit will not have a CD-ROM, Floppy or anything along those lines. Just a small, inexpensive HD.
-.-
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
First, it has to support dual monitors, for the Xray imaging app that we use.
It has to be able to run Windows, or be able to get to a citrix terminal server.
It has to support wheel mice within the ICA connections
It cannot have any fan, because of dust
Does anyone know of such a machine?
You know, I really have a good coment I could share with all the fine people here in /.
but I think I'll wait till tomorrow when this story get's reposted.
yay radiohead
The other neat thing is the reviewer stuffs a P3 1.26 and a Radeon 7500 into the system. Perfect for bringing to LANs!"
:)
Also perfect for setting off smoke alarms!
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
The problem, as I see it, is that a combination of needing to be backwards-compatible, and failing to reevaluate gestalt hardware design, has left us with boxes that don't look fundamentally different on the inside than they did 15 years ago.
Here's what I envision: a physical architecture in which every component is an enclosed, rectilinear module which snaps in and out as easily as a PCMCIA card. No need to open up the case to do an upgrade. No need to fuss with screws and fitting cards into slots. I mean, honestly, screws? We can do better than this, folks!
I think this approach would work. I mean, is there any good reason why cards have to slot in perpendicular to the motherboard? Through the magic of electricity and a miraculous substance called copper, we could easily redirect the power and data paths to component bays as described above.
Hardware should be modular, and that implies loose coupling. All that's really necessary is to connect the components with the appropriate sort of conductive material. That's a really loose constraint, and yet every computer that comes off the line has the same pain-in-the-ass structure to it.
Well?
My deviantArt site
What's the solution if you want 802.11b on a SFF system? Do you use the one PCI slot for a PCI-based WiFi card?
Does no good for cases without a PCI slot. Are there any SFF mobo manufacturers looking at on-board wifi?
www.christopherlewis.com
ThinkGeek has a tiny little thing, no bigger footprint than the CD/DVD drive. Still holds a P3 1.2, 30Gb HD, 512Mb RAM http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/computing/5a98.shtm l
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
To make a decent gateway out of such a box, one needs TWO ethernet ports. There is a slot there, but it would be nicer if it was integrated. So not only do I need to add the slim CDROM drive cost, but also the extra NIC card cost (which is not all that much, but now there is no more slot available).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
With the Shuttle supporting a P4 2.53 (or better) and supporting ungodly amounts of memory. I think the SS51G is better.
Umm... still a little too big for wearcomp
I built a small case from standard parts out of aluminum bar.
Here is a link to some Pictures of it.
It looks big in the pictures, but it really is quite small. That is a DVD rom in between the network card and sound card.
I can give more information if anyone is interested.
-Heath
Yeah, I agree wholehartedly with your concern. I once purchased a generic "book PC" because I thought it was perfect for my crowded desk.
But the damned thing was so loud that I couldn't stand it . Many "white box" generic PC's are awful in this regard.
I later bought some HP e-PC's which turned out to be a lot quieter; in part because HP moved the power supply outside to a power brick.
This Lex Thin-800E PC also uses an external power supply. Good. The CPU fan should be reasonably quiet under normal circumstances, provided they used a good quality (i.e., not the cheapest) fan.
BTW, The PCI riser is a nice touch. The HP e-PC does not have one.
If it was a Lexx System SFF PC (lexx.com),you could buy it, feed your friends to it, and blow up a planet. :-)
Murphy was an optimist.
Finally I find the proper response to all this down the list. Really now, if you want a mini-pc this is the best way to go. Shuttle put enough of these out that the parts needn't be considered completely proprietary. With standard 3.5" drive bays you can put a real hard drive in there as well. Sucker has onboard EVERYTHING too. You can check out more at Tom's http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/02q3/020815/ind ex.html
Ability do in full size PCI and AGP cards without risers too. And if you want to keep it on the cheap you can even throw a 1.7Ghz Celery processor in there and you can quit your bitchin about cost. Don't forget how quiet it is too due to the heatpipe used on the CPU.
A warning: we purchased 4 of the Shuttle small form factor computers (the SS-25) and we have had 3 power supplies go bad. The first we were able to get replaced by the retailer (Fry's), however, the other two we have yet to get replaced by Shuttle in spite of RMA.
Thus I'm concerned now quite concerned about the quality of the power supply as a weak point for of any small format computer.
-- Herder of Cats
The flytech PC's are the smalest I've seen: as low as 2,5 cm in width running VIA C3 with no fan without breaking a sweat.
http://www.flytech.com.tw/
on the bottom of the pile in that picture for $200 in hong kong. 1.2 ghz duron, 40gig seagate, integrated video on the mobo though (16 color vga, BLARGH). i'm using it right now, actually
i like the shuttle boxes more too, the p4 with agp port especially seems real nice. and it has more elegant cooling solution too for the cpu than this. about the 'small, portable, cheap non laptop' niche; i once went to demoparty(lan of sorts, well, it was kinda smallish with aprox ~60-100 ppl, and was more in the copyparty tradition). i just had one problem, i didn't have a transport to the city with the party. at the time(like now..) i didn't have a case for my main case anyways at the time so i packed my mobo along with gfx, sound&network cards,hd,psu+others into small cardboard boxes i had around(mobo box+few others). so that it would fit in my backpack and not weight too much. i went to the party with bus&train, in the end biggest weight issue was the gddamn monitor(assembling it took ~15mins). if you don't have (still) expensive lcd monitor it beats me what advantage does a small box have when going to lan/parties. besides, when going to demoparties why not just be retro and bring your c64 + telly?
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
A decent crimper will run me around $12 USD, it normally retails for $40 USD. A good punch will run me about $8 USD, normally retails for $29 USD. The cable is EXTREMELY marked up...
I will be able to buy around 1000 feet for less then $60 USD, if I wanted that much. My home is small, I doubt that I will need much more then 600 feet for what I am looking to do.
The longest run will be approximately 30 feet of cable, which should give me about 5 feet of leeway on either end.
I have all of the network equipment that I need.
Again, for the rest of what I am picking up, the costs will still be very low. The mark-up on networking materials is absolutely insane.
It's nice to be good friends with the owner of a computer/networking company.
-.-
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
If someone has any insight, please let me know because I'll buy one right now if it could...
When (if ever) is Cowboy Neal going to get a smaller form factor?
It's not so small.. (IMHO)
Remember the Acorn RiscPC? The most expandable case design ever.
Start with a pizzabox with 1 CD drive 1 floppy drive. Then if you need more room, just add slices until you have behemoth server case!
Would this be possible? Of course, you would new motherboard standard, with riser plates for PCI.
Just a thouhgt. (Oh and the RiscPC was quiet, no fans whatsoever needed!)
The same thing happened to me with Konq 2.2.2, so it's not only a Lizard problem.
--
I don't want to rule the world... I just want to be in charge of mayonnaise.
Check out THIS Linux webpad that even has a built in remote control. Now gthis is something that I could use!
It just takes time and re-examination of existing designs. For instance, the Dell PowerEdge 2650 has no internal cabling. The drive backplans pugs directly into the mainboard, which has a PERC3 RAID controller built right into the PCB. Opening the case, all you see is sea of green circuitboards.
Of course, one of the biggest hurdles to overcome with a design like this is properly laying down those circuit traces. Your average ATX board is already pretty cramped and the addition of traces and other major design changes just to do away with cables is currently cost prohibitive for most applications.
However, when you're talking server systems that already cost as much as most people's cars, it becomes easier to justisfy changes like these as they allow for quicker service and higher reliability: cables tangle and can be broken. It takes longer to build and repair systems where cabling must be routed. But when I can just flip a couple of levers and slide a couple of boards around to bring a critical server back online, then my company will be more likely to spend the extra dollars for the feature. It's easily recovered from the shorter periods of downtime.
Like most technology, it will take a while to trickle down from the high end to the consumers.