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Automakers to Make Diagnostic Codes Available
Rubbersoul writes "As reported on /. a few months ago independent auto repair shops are a bit tense about not having access to car computer diagnostic codes. Well it seems that now the auto makers will share these codes after all. According to an article at CNN the codes will be available to all professional mechanics as well as amateurs working out of their garage at home. Good to see the auto makers came around on this one, even if it did take Congress to help a bit."
frost piss?
- Junis From Kabul
will this make it easier to make the mod chips for engines: ie the extra horsepower or higher rpm computer mods that are available for a lot of vehicles
My Complaint About John Ashcroft:
Parts of what follows below were actually painful to write.
However, because of the ongoing misinformation campaigns
launched by John Ashcroft and his operatives, I feel it is
my duty to write this. It is worth noting at the outset that
Ashcroft's eccentricity is surpassed only by his vanity. And
his vanity is surpassed only by his empty theorizing. (Remember
his theory that doing the fashionable thing is more important than
life or liberty?) Although I agree with those who suspect that it
would be good for the press to start paying attention to things
like this, nevertheless, I cannot agree with the subject matter and
attitude that is woven into every one of his confused antics.
One argument he makes is that it is better that a hundred thousand
people should perish than that he should be even slightly
inconvenienced. That's just plain nonsense. The truth is that
he maintains that either his decisions are based on reason or
that those of us who oppose him would rather run than fight.
Ashcroft denies any other possibility.
If you agree, read on. Common sense and scientific evidence agree:
I believe I have found my calling. My calling is to address a number
of important issues. And just let him try and stop me. Your guess
is as good as mine as to why Ashcroft wants to pass off all sorts
of clueless and obviously resentful stuff on others as a
so-called "inner experience". Maybe it's because he plans to
place what I call pretentious, meddlesome bullies at the top
of the social hierarchy. I will never give up. I will never
stop trying. And I will use every avenue possible to shape a
world of dignity and harmony, a world of justice, solidarity,
liberty, and prosperity.
A small child really couldn't understand that the last time
he reached into his bag of dirty tricks, he pulled out a scheme
to give expression to that which is most destructive and most
harmful to society. But any adult can easily grasp that his
intent is to prevent us from asking questions. Ashcroft doesn't
want the details checked. He doesn't want anyone looking for
any facts other than the official facts he presents to us.
I wonder if this is because most of his "facts" are false.
I didn't want to talk about this. I really didn't. But last
summer, I attempted what I knew would be a hopeless task. I
tried to convince Ashcroft that he is essentially describing a
situation that does not exist. As I expected, Ashcroft was
unconvinced. Opposing his high-handed catch-phrases actively
and earnestly is the moral duty of every good human being. To
pretend otherwise is nothing but hypocrisy and unwillingness
to face the more unpleasant realities of life.
When I say that I speak from experience, I don't just mean that
he wants to exert more and more control over other individuals,
that he wants to reopen wounds that seem scarcely healed, or
that he wants to substitute breast-beating and schwarmerei for
action and honest debate. Sure, Ashcroft indeed wants all that,
but he also wants much more. He wants to bowdlerize all
unfavorable descriptions of his harangues. Let me carry my
thoughts on this subject a bit further. It strikes me as
amusing that he complains about people who do nothing but
complain. Well, news flash! Ashcroft does nothing but complain.
At first, he just wanted to mold the mind of virtually every
citizen -- young or old, rich or poor, simple or sophisticated.
Then, he tried to gain a virtual stranglehold on many facets of
our educational system. Who knows what he'll do next? People often
ask me that question. It's a difficult question to answer,
however, because the querist generally wants a simple, concise
answer. He doesn't want to hear a long, drawn-out explanation
about how Ashcroft has -- not once, but several times -- been
able to slow scientific progress without anyone stopping him.
How long can that go on? As long as his anal-retentive,
offensive prognoses are kept on life support. That's why we
have to pull the plug on them and bring the communion of
knowledge to all of us.
I recently received some mail in which the writer stated,
"Ashcroft must have known that his campaigns would cause
high levels of outrage and would generate many letters
in response (like this one)." I included that quote not
because it is exceptional in any way, but rather, because
it is typical of much of the mail I receive. I included
it to show you that I'm not the only one who thinks that
Ashcroft's apologists are too lazy to advance a clear,
credible, and effective vision for dealing with our
present dilemma and its most wretched manifestations.
They just want to sit back, fasten their mouths on the
public teats, and casually forget that even when Ashcroft
isn't lying, he's using facts, emphasizing facts, bearing
down on facts, sliding off facts, quietly ignoring facts,
and, above all, interpreting facts in a way that will
enable him to reap a whirlwind of destroyed marriages,
damaged children, and, quite possibly, a globe-wide
expression of incurable sexually transmitted diseases.
Ashcroft must think that being lascivious entitles one
to put a malign spin on important issues. The limitation
and final abolition of particularism presuppose the
elimination of innumerable preconditions. It's a pity.
So maybe those who fight against his insidious stratagems
are inevitably branded as scummy and crotchety by his
underlings. Big deal. What's more important is that he
should clarify his point, so people like you and me can
tell what the heck he's talking about. Without
clarification, his principles sound lofty and include
some emotionally charged words but don't really seem
to make any sense.
Many people respond to Ashcroft's sanctimonious ideals
in the same way that they respond to television dramas.
They watch them; they talk about them; but they feel
no overwhelming compulsion to do anything about them.
That's why I insist we shed the light of truth on the
evil that is Ashcroft. As I mentioned before, he has
neither honor nor integrity, nor even knows what those
words mean. But let me add that I receive a great deal
of correspondence from people all over the world. And
one of the things that impresses me about it is the
massive number of people who realize that if you were
to try to tell his shock troops that his readiness to
call me unimaginative has to be the most egregious example
imaginable of the pot calling the kettle black, they'd
close their eyes and put their hands over their ears.
They are, as the psychologists say, in denial. They
don't want to hear that Ashcroft has commented that
fanaticism can quell the hatred and disorder in our
society. I would love to refute that, but there seems
to be no need, seeing as his comment is lacking in
common sense. Admittedly, when it comes time to take a
stand, Ashcroft invariably dives for cover. But that's
because Ashcroft just reported that he is omnipotent.
Do you think that that's merely sloppy reporting on
Ashcroft's part? I don't. I think that it's a deliberate
attempt to regulate isolationism.
He exhibits an overweening sense of entitlement and a
predilection for depreciating others. Okay, that's a
slight exaggeration, but you get the general drift. To
Ashcroft's mind, we ought to worship presumptuous,
pestiferous kleptomaniacs as folk heroes. So that means
that he is a perpetual victim of injustice, right?
No, not right. The truth is that Ashcroft will probably
respond to this letter just like he responds to all
criticism. He will put me down as "pernicious" or
"disloyal". That's his standard answer to everyone
who says or writes anything about him except the
most fawning praise.
He labels anyone he doesn't like as "disgusting".
That might well be a better description of Ashcroft.
He coins polysyllabic neologisms to make his doctrines
sound like they're actually important. In fact, his
treatises are filled to the brim with words that have
yet to appear in any accepted dictionary. For better
or for worse, Ashcroft claims that violence and
prejudice are funny. That claim is preposterous
and, to use Ashcroft's own language, overtly
mawkish. No history can justify it.
He does not tolerate any view that differs from his own.
Rather, Ashcroft discredits and discards those people who
contradict him along with the ideas that they represent.
In the end, we have to ask, "Why can't he simply enjoy
the fruits of his own labors and let other people enjoy
the fruits of theirs?" A complete answer to that question
would take more space than I can afford, so I'll have to
give you a simplified answer. For starters, I have to
wonder where he got the idea that it is my view that
cultural tradition has never contributed a single thing
to the advancement of knowledge or understanding. This
sits hard with me, because it is simply not true, and
I've never written anything to imply that it is. It has
been said that Ashcroft's thralls fail to recognize that
you and I have a lot more class than Ashcroft. That makes
sense to me. I believe it's true. But it decidedly implies
that when I first realized that Ashcroft's primary
motivation is self-enrichment at our expense, a cold
shudder ran down my back. End of story. Actually, I
should add that whenever there's an argument about his
devotion to principles and to freedom, all one has to
do is point out that by an odd twist of fate, his
apparatchiks like having a stamp of assurance from
him that what they're doing is fashionable, or at
least acceptable. That should settle the argument
pretty quickly.
For the time being, this is not a major issue. Of course,
it's not that simple. If Ashcroft thinks that he can make
me wind up in a straitjacket and locked in a padded cell,
then he's barking up the wrong tree. My job now and for
the immediate future -- our job -- is to shed a little
light on some of the ignorant prejudices that reside
within his pea-sized brain. What are the lessons for
us in this? First, it's that it's unconscionable
slackers like him that destroy the natural beauty of
our parks and forests. And second, the acid test for
his "kinder, gentler" new platitudes should be, "Do
they still portray uneducated scum as clowns?" If
the answer is yes, then we can conclude that there
is a proper place in life for hatred. Hatred of
that which is wrong is a powerful and valuable tool.
But when Ashcroft perverts hatred in order to deny
citizens the ability to draw their own conclusions
about the potential for violence that he may be
generating, it becomes clear that given a choice
of having him attack the critical realism and
impassive objectivity that are the central
epistemological foundations of the scientific
worldview or having my bicuspids extracted sans
Novocaine, I would embrace the pliers, purchase
some Polident Partials, and call it a day. Our
goal must now be to restore the world back to its
original balance. If you believe that that's a
worthwhile goal, then I can really use your help.
Let me hear from you.
Japanese makers have been doing this for a long time. I've diagnosted my Impreza since I've owned it. The American automakers, as usual, have had their money shoved up their asses too far to care.
This way the mechanics don't have excuses for not getting things done correctly now lol.
All your custom engines are belong to us...
Really, is it THAT good of an idea to let people hack their car's computers? Sure, i go with the whole idea that if someone wants to blow himself up, then have at it... but in a car, that's potentially putting other people at risk... and that ain't cool.
Now I have to buy cars only with CarFax on them, because I don't trust that 'mod-chips' won't be placed on cars to roll back the mileage a little. Yet another step in the degredation of the automobile industry...can't wait for jet packs!
If you don't know what Zoo Blacklisting is, click here.
Who's going to be the first person to install Linux on their ECU?
at least if you had a car on which you could use this tool
-jon
This is a pretty big deal since it's pretty tough to figure out what's going on on computer controlled engines otherwise.
This is a bigger deal because it means that people publishing the codes will no longer face the prospect of being sued for posting it and means that, in this case at least, the auto makers (with pressure from congress) decided that public good out weighed copyright law.
Bugs Bunny was right.
Under the agreement signed by the Automotive Service Association, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers and the Association of International Automobile Manufacturers, the automakers agree to make the service information available on the Internet by Aug. 31 at a "reasonable price."
Which means that private mechanics will charge more to analyze the codes since they have to pay a "reasonable price" which negates:
Some automakers felt more comfortable giving the information to their dealerships, which must keep the data confidential under franchise contracts. That often meant higher costs to consumers, since dealer labor rates tend to run $10 to $20 per hour higher than independent shops, according to AAA.
Unless, of course, someone creates something like carwarez.com
Live web cams
[09:03:03] Scabies Vector: Do you hate the white man?
[09:03:37] ciaograzioso: what did you say?
[09:03:45] Scabies Vector: The white man. Do you hate him?
[09:04:16] ciaograzioso: no
[09:04:20] Scabies Vector: Oh.
[09:04:29] Scabies Vector: Then what do you hate? AZNs?
[09:04:53] Scabies Vector: They have super kiki-pride in their rice, women, and slow but stupid looking automobiles.
[09:04:56] ciaograzioso: AZN?
[09:05:12] Scabies Vector: You know, AZN PRIDE!!##%#
[09:05:26] Scabies Vector: LOLOLOROOFLES
[09:05:45] ciaograzioso: no i don't know what you're talking about
[09:06:28] Scabies Vector: OK, well if you had to pick a race to hate, what would it be? Messicans?
[09:06:34] Scabies Vector: Those bastards are LAZY.
[09:06:36] ciaograzioso: no..
[09:06:40] ciaograzioso: they are you not
[09:06:54] ciaograzioso: you obviously don't live around farmers
[09:06:56] Scabies Vector: I had one try to wash my windshield at an intersection.
[09:07:08] ciaograzioso: so
[09:07:10] Scabies Vector: He didn't get out of the way quickly enough when the light turned green, so I ran over his foot.
[09:07:11] ciaograzioso: they're not lazy
[09:07:15] ciaograzioso: i don't hate any race
[09:07:24] ciaograzioso: that was mean
[09:07:32] Scabies Vector: Well, he didn't get out of the way...
[09:07:46] ciaograzioso: well, you coulda been patient
[09:07:49] Scabies Vector: Messicans are almost as lazy as canadians, when you get down to it.
[09:08:04] ciaograzioso: they are not, they're very good workers
[09:08:12] ciaograzioso: where are you getting your information
[09:08:13] Scabies Vector: But canadians don't even get out of my car's way...
[09:08:26] ciaograzioso: what do you just plain run them over
[09:08:34] Scabies Vector: sometimes
[09:08:40] Scabies Vector: Not out of spite.
[09:08:45] Scabies Vector: Well, ok, sometimes out of spite...
[09:09:32] Scabies Vector: Have you never run anyone over?
[09:09:36] ciaograzioso: no
[09:09:38] ciaograzioso: that's mean
[09:10:01] Scabies Vector: The first time I did, it tore the crap out of my tire.
[09:10:07] ciaograzioso: good
[09:10:12] Scabies Vector: One of their bones lodged in it, and popped it really badly.
[09:10:17] Scabies Vector: not good!
[09:10:20] ciaograzioso: that's sick
[09:10:27] ciaograzioso: i don't wanna know all that
[09:11:00] Scabies Vector: I had to pay like 130$ for a new tire...
[09:11:04] ciaograzioso: good
[09:11:12] Scabies Vector: Well...
[09:11:16] Scabies Vector: I found the guy's wife.
[09:11:17] ciaograzioso: well what?
[09:11:26] Scabies Vector: and beat her until she gave me the money for the tire...
[09:13:42] Scabies Vector: That was satisfying.
[09:13:55] ciaograzioso: i don't wanna know all that stuff
[09:14:00] ciaograzioso: i don't think it's funny either
[09:37:10] Scabies Vector: People are generally worthless...
[09:37:17] ciaograzioso: they are not
[09:37:26] Scabies Vector: Prove it.
[09:37:26] ciaograzioso: people have a lot of value
[09:37:36] Scabies Vector: OK, all I ask is you to prove it to me.
[09:38:06] ciaograzioso: if people were worthless, Jesus Christ wouldn't have died for them, not for you, for me, or for anyone else, but He did
[09:38:23] Scabies Vector: Jesus was a fag!
[09:38:31] ciaograzioso: prove it
[09:38:34] Scabies Vector: OK
[09:38:48] Scabies Vector: He told everyone that a man should never have relations with another man.
[09:38:50] Scabies Vector: You know why?
[09:38:57] Scabies Vector: So HE COULD HAVE ALL THE MEN FOR HIMSELF!
[09:39:56] ciaograzioso: so you're saying that Christ was gay
[09:40:11] ciaograzioso: you need more than logical reasoning to present something as a fact
[09:40:12] Scabies Vector: Well, he sure wasn't interested in the womenz.
[09:40:23] ciaograzioso: He was without sin....
[09:40:41] Scabies Vector: He was just desperate as hell to get laid, but nobody would do him.
[09:40:44] ciaograzioso: which means He couldn't have been a homosexual or heterosexual
[09:40:53] Scabies Vector: So he went gay.
[09:41:03] Scabies Vector: Gay guys will do anything... women have standards.
[09:42:03] ciaograzioso: men have standards too
[09:42:09] Scabies Vector: Not gay men.
[09:42:17] Scabies Vector: Fags will bone anything with an anus.
i wonder if big brother bill will classify this new open source system as a threat and team with the big 3..
This means a number of major changes in the industry including the right for independent motor dealers to buy directly from manufacturers (as franchise dealers do now), and for them to have the right to the information required to service these vehicles at a fair price.
Some more info on this is available here.
Now when my wife makes me go fix the car I'll actually know whats not working, instead of randomly hitting parts with a wrench until a part breaks.
So sick and tired of companies hiding things of things i OWN.
And i really dont want to hear about 'use license'.. its mine. i paid for it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
There has been a recent trend in mom'n'pop (well just pop usually) mechanic stores fading away because of big companies sucking up all the businness. Ever seen those commercials that compare Joe Blow mechanic to a big time Jiffy Lube or NTB buff? Notice how the mechanic is portrayed as a greasy hungover hobo, and the friendly neighborhood WalMart-of-cars mechanic is clean cut, muscular, educated, and reviewing what appears to be a concise list of repairs with the client. I'm not against corporations coming to town on a political level, but it stinks to drive out in the country and seeing mom'n'pop stores taken over. And with all of the computer chips and advanced parts requiring really expensive tools to fix, it's nice to see something to go against that trend and empower the small guys again ;)
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
Now i can make my engine rev to the beat of my music. No need to pump the breaks!
What is new about this? The OBD and OBD II standards have been around for a long time... you can go out and buy a tool that will interface with your car and show you the codes... You can even get a cable that lets you hookup a laptop the sensor port.
The OBD-II Homepage
OBD-II Codes
"We shall show mercy, but we shall not ask for it" -- Winston Churchill
These are Diag Codes not Source Code. These will not give you information to put Linux on your car. They give information like Code 2453 Means Sencor 4 is malfunctioning. So opening the code help the machanics not the hacker. They are not saying how the Onboad computer is working just giving you the information on what is wrong. It is like a help book for windows error messages. With know all the window error message numbers it helps you possible fix the problem with the Os but not nessarly hack the OS.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Now those same 31337 doods who put a 12-inch high spoiler (unpainted for the first 3 months, since they have to save up their McDonald's salary) on a Honda Civic are going to start hooking up neon lights and a speaker system to their diagnostic code system.
Diagnostic codes are read only. They will not be releasing any modification codes I am willing to bet.
It was mercedes D - series. It's really not that hard. All you need to do is to connect a laptop to it. It's an ordinary computer - just like any other after all. If you have cracked games or done some brute force password cracking, you can crack your car.
"Urged by Congress?
The deal comes after Congress held a hearing on the issue this summer and threatened to force automakers to share the codes with car owners and independent mechanics."
The more important question is why did it take action from congress?
"This deal will protect the viability of independent service station and repair shops and ensure that consumers will continue to have a choice of automotive service providers," said Sen. Paul Wellstone, D-Minn., who introduced a bill in the Senate aimed at prying open access to the codes."
"Automakers were concerned the legislation would require them to turn over the calibration codes that could be used by the aftermarket parts industry to copy their vehicle parts, in addition to the fault codes. Territo said the manufacturers were not trying to give dealers an unfair advantage."
The aftermarket industry already has the tools for copying parts and codes. So if you weren't intending to give an unfair advantage to your guys. What were you intending?
"I think everyone realizes that a lot of the automotive repairs are done by the aftermarket industry," he said. "It's in our interest to make sure our customers can get their vehicles repaired easily.""
Apparently you weren't, otherwise it wouldn' have taken a nudge from congress. The aftermarket and independent mechanic is almost as old as the automobile industry. So one can't work from an "I didn't know" standpoint.
most manufacturers have had these codes available for a very long time.. late 80's even.
What the hell is new about this? This isn't newsworthy. slashdot has gone to such shit.
As someone who works in the industry on the engineering side I am very familiar with their "codes."
The codes will be USELESS to a mechanic. A mechanic needs a "TOOL." A mechanic is not a programmer or engineer. He will still pay $300 for the tool to read the codes. he will still pay $100 per 'module' for each car's codes he wants to read.
He can do that now. So the hope is that more tools will be developed and that will bring the cost of the tools down.
Don't confuse this with any ability to modify anything. These will be read only idiot codes like "o2 is out of range" or "Low Voltage."
It still takes a good mechanic to find the problem and often, VERY DAMN OFTEN, the codes are simply misleading the mechanic when his nose and ears have already given him the answer.
Thats what I said. Someone says something about "diagnostic codes" and the next thing you know every idiot on slashdot that has ever looked under the hood of a car has something to say about "damn kids mod chipping their cars".
IT IS NOT THE SAME THING AS CHIPPING A CAR.
A diagnostic code is what your engine's computer gives out when the "check your engine" light is on.
Get it? Good....
Of course with apps like MS-word, its microosft's advantage to not share anything and use drm to monopolize the market and force users to pay outrageous prices for their software and to make them pay and agree to the eula for Windows. Its all in the file formats.
MS-OFFICE pro $900!! Literally $900 for this. How much does a new computer cost?
I expect it to go way up after drm and encryption becomes standard in the next version of Office. After that expect to pay $1200! After all your boss may email you some documents and expect an answer. ITs silly to pay these outrageous prices just to stay in contact with the rest of the world. I remember back in the good old days when MS_Office Pro was $179. HHmmmm wonder why the price sky rocketed up?
I bet if Microsoft was in this atuo bussiness, they would not only hold the codes secret but would us the dmca to force independant auto shops under and make users only go to their own shops.
http://saveie6.com/
Diagnostic trouble Code so called DTC are avil online for long time. check out http://www.autotap.com for detail on their software and OBDII codes. Autotap is not just for Trouble Codes, you can use it to monitor 1000's of parameters in Real time!! from how much air/fuel your car consuming, how far you have your throttle down, what gear are you in, what's your temptures etc etc.
:)
I have all the Codes for my Grand Prix GTP.
Yes A lot of people mod their cars, reprogramming the PCM or ECU can give you more HP and remove speed limiter etc.
I'm one of those guy who tweak on the cars, i'll be setting DTC's left and right, i just use autotap and look up the code and do the necessary correction to fix the problem.
Sometime friend who have Service Engine Soon light on their late model car I tap in and check out the code (Which cost $75 at the shop) so we'll get idea on the problem with the car before we take it to the shop.
There are palm size code readers and scan tools also.
Look for multiline, serial gauges that coming out in a few month that let you monitor various parameters of your OBD II car and they're reprogrammable too with serial interface.
Am i the only one who though for about .8 seconds that the article was about GNU Automake?
I best cut down on the wine I think...
On Board Diagnostics is a tool. You can read the codes with the tool.
What the codes mean is the point.
That has nothing to do with this. You know the Check Engine light that people never have checked out? Thats the car's internal diagnostic system giving you a heads up that something's fscked up.
Believe it or not, that actually has a good bearing on if something is wrong with your car. People who fix their cars at home (or the car tuner) actually likes to look up what caused that Orange Light of Death, but from most car companies (most being the American ones) the code it displays is kept secret from small garages or individuals.
This allows the do-it-yourselfer or the entrepreneur garage to repair their vehicle with the aid of the vehicle. Score one for the little guys.
Sound the horn twice, and select third gear = "Bring me my light saber"
:-)
Select first, third, then fifth gear, then turn on the radio = "Call Princess Leia on my cell phone"
Doubtless you can make up others
Never mind.
As an owner of "beater" cars, I can honestly tell you that those codes do not matter one bit, and are only there to get you ripped off by auto mechanics.
My beat-up Chevy Celebrity has had that yellow "Service Engine Soon" light on for years, and it runs just fine.
The whole thing is nothing but government waste, as there's a lot more pressing issues at hand than forcing companies to publish every single detail of their trade secrets.
I wonder if the autoconfers will have anything to say about this.
Alan
Me Too! Once I bought the $60 factory published repair manual, the codes and an easy method of having the car cough them out was right there in the book. The book paid for itself after having to replace two timing belts, a water pump, rotor and oil pump. D@mn 200,000+ mile cars.
I wasn't aware that manufaturers WEREN'T releasing those codes. While BMW uses a funky doodad to reset the oil usage timer, both my Corvette and PT cruiser can ofer up trouble codes via the dash display AND all of those codes are documented on the net.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
www.solotrek.com
no, i'm not a salesman, just think this shit is WAY WAY WAY overdue.
Looks like we can finally overclock our automobiles. Thanks guys!
Automakers were concerned the legislation would require them to turn over the calibration codes...
The calibration codes would have been very usefull to the car hacker community. Too bad we can't make 'em give up the goods.
I thought we only care about vehicles propulsed by antimatter. Why should we care about such dated technology?
"Enter "GLYCERINE" as a code, then press L1 for a nitro boost."
I think this could definately pave the way for some cool mini-ITX projects (see previous slashdot article). I'm not sure how exactly these diagnostics run though, or what information they provide.
I think in some systems you can get (and maybe set) your fuel-to-air ratio, which controls how rich your car is burning gas and to some extent power. Turbochargers are based on providing extra air flow allowing for more gas to also be mixed in.
Even if you can't stat your car on the fly, it would be quite cool to have the onboard PC able to do something other than play Mp3's.
I'd like to wire one into the speedometer and gas gauge, then have it calculate milage based on speed and the current fuel/air ratio.
Checksum error. Now terminating system: brakes - phorm
CODE 0000-FFFF:
YOUR CAR IS BROKEN. BUY A NEW ONE.
Wah!
Imagine: you're doing the monthly check, and discover that your mileage has suddenly dropped 10%. Even before something goes wrong, you could take it to a garage and give them strong diagnostic data.
When the time comes to sell the car, you can provide a day-to-day profile of the car's history: every oil change, fillup, and repair automatically logged. Real examples of winter vs summer and city vs. highway performance.
Seems to me that the technology is already available, and some of the functions are already in place. All that really needs to be done is for someone to hack together an interface. Any takers?
Interociter
-=What do I want? I'm an American. I want more.
It must suck to be you. Posting inaccurate, ranting lies does not give you credibility. Office XP Pro does not cost $900! Microsoft's suggested price for the full edition of Pro is actually $579. The price is well worth it too: Word, Excel, PowerPoint, the #1 email program Outlook, and the best database manager in the industry, Access.
I just bought Office XP Pro yesterday at my college for the low price of $199. It's the academic edition for sure, but I can upgrade it and I have all the programs that are in the more expensive retail edition. Plus, it comes with Visio and FrontPage trial CDs. Office XP is becoming more standards-compliant; many of the formats are beginning to include XML concepts. In any case, OpenOffice already is able to read and write all the Office formats, so what are you complaining about?
- had access to the engine diagnostics codes
- could override/modify some things (e.g. shut down one injector, select Canadian shift regime)
- had a summary screen that showed engine & transmission status
- let you access the body computer (e.g. heat, A/C).
I had hoped that was the coming thing, but they charged too much for the touch screen. The dealership was forthcoming with info on the codes, or you could buy the service manual at a reasonable price.Too bad. A great car, still looked good, my wife loved it, I could work on it, but we couldn't get parts to keep it on the road any more.
"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." --Napoleon Bonaparte
Go to ebay and buy a scan tool. You see the engine light on your car go on. Even if you have the tool and plug it into your car's computer it only spits out an error number and a little extra information. What does it mean? No one knows....except for the car makers who want to charge you money for the manual.
This is the same stuff Free Software Philosophy seeks to fight: closed systems that take rights away from the user. You bought the car....why can't you figure out what is wrong with it on your own if you choose to do so? Why do automakers want to keep your property a secret from you?
I mean, my car is a lease. If there's any trouble whatsoever it goes back to the dealer for servicing. In fact, it's in their best interest not to fuck the car up since they have to cover repairs under warranty, and they have to buy the car back at the end of the lease. So long independent mechanic, I barely knew thee.
Although I'd probably be mad if I tinkered with cars in the same way I tinkered with computers and didn't have the open source equivalent.
Once my car is fixed, there's no need for me to be here. Do you understand? I need the codes. I have to get inside my car's diagnostic mode. You have to tell me how...
and it plays mp3s. and it runs linux.
nyah.
This is very good news indeed, even i haven't owned a single own car and i do not repair cars as a hobby nor as my job i have been couple times pissed off because automakers hide some info, not particularly with the diagnose codes but anyway for that i have been missing some information which has been needed, like schematics of wirings etc...
also i know a lot of people which has been same problems, actually one of my friend had his car just staying on the parking lot unrepaired because he couldn't get the schematics to fix the problem, he had his car sitting there over 6months until he gave up and took it to professional hands, he had it waiting there like 2months so that everything else had been repaired before he gaveup...
Pulsed Media Seedboxes
this is +4 informative. Are /. readers that fuckin dumb when it comes to cars? Wanting to put Linux on everything makes it look like a disease...
While we're on the subject of automobiles, here is a question. Why can't automobile makers make vehicles that last? We all know they can. I'm tired of little plastic POSs falling or breaking in my car. You go to the dealership, "I need this part for my car" and they say, "That'll be $250" even though you know the part is worth $10 lol. It would be nice to have 1 car in my lifetime that didn't come with cheap parts. I mean I know things like tires get worn out yes, I can replace those myself.
Is my FUD-finder broken or am I missing something here?
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
This is also happening here in Europe now that the EU have provided a standard called EOBD for all newly-developed cars which is actually the OBD-2 system which has been available for some time.
This months issue of Elektor Electronics has full details on the interface, with next months issue presenting a do-it-yourself EOBD diagnosis adapter. They also do an OBD-2 to RS232 adapter for those geeks wanting to play using their laptop in true "The Fast 'n The Furious" style.
[)amien
For Audi and VW owners, theres been a 'tool' and software (that runs on windows, but can use WINE under linux) called VAG-COM that is supposed to just plug into the diagnostic port and give you real time data from the ECU, I considered buying it...VAG-COM page
www.obd-2.com
Alex Peper's software and hardware is AWESOME.
$122 for a module to connect yoru computer to one of the three types of OBD-2 protocol (ISO, VPW, PWM). A little more if you want two of the three, and a little more if you want all three built into one interface.
Software updates are frequent and free. Worked perfectly out of the box, he's just making improvements.
Download the software for free at www.obd-2.com, check it out with the sample datasets he provides, and then consider buying a module. Student discounts, and an additional discount if you solder it together yourself.
Jim
1.) The diagnostic link is a serial link, 9600bps on older cars and 19.2kbps & up on newer vehicles, i.e. it should be possible to hack up an interface from a generic serial port.
...and to the OBD/OBDII poster, don't forget ISO-9141 and related...
2.) some of the code results will be useless without the transformation formulae & module addresses
3.) some code won't be all that useful w/o access to the relevant technical service bulletins.
4.) this is in no way a cure all. I doubt that it will help very much other than with faulty module identification, and faulty sensors, esp w/o the TSBs.
5.) this isn't going to help you hack the modules very much.
I highly doubt that you're going to enlighten much of the
I drive a Subaru Outback, in America, and I only use Linux...
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
Here's one for Jeeps w/a digital dash:
...and Ford has SCP & ACP(Visteon now protocol?)
... actually dual V6 controllers...)
lock doors (IIRC)
rotate ignition through 3 times (do NOT start the engine)
poof diag code(s) flash through the digital odometer
IIRC on digital vehicles without a digital odometer it will flash the check engine light
of course this and what the codes are, are generally available from any half-decent Jeep site...
I'd also be willing to bet that any vehicle with a digital dash does something similar or exactly the same.
Pinouts: most manufactueres also have their own little proprietary vehicle network protocol & physical layer...
GM/Chrysler essentially became OBDII IIRC
most antilock brake modules generally use ISO-9141, esp. European made modules. IIRC ISO-9141 is pretty common in Europe/Japan. (Except Mazda. They were/are(?) using Ford ECU/PCMs for a while... so was the V12 Aston Martin...DB7(?)
This is the sort of thing that made me switch to a motorcycle, after I couldn't get the ABS on my Camaro fixed properly.
I went to one shop, they didn't have the equipment.
I went to another shop, they didn't want to touch ABS due to liability fears.
I went to a dealer, and they said "well we don't understand what the computer's telling us, but for $1000 we'll dig into it!!"
Fuck that. So in the rain about 2 weeks ago the rear brakes locked up and sent me into a guardrail. I just bought a Suzuki SV650 with the insurance check. There's nothing on that which I can't fix myself.
I wonder if this includes motorcycles. As a specific example, BMW uses their own interface to access diagnostic information for their motorcycles. The data is encrypted, and is not readable by anythin other than their Moditec computer, which you can by form them for something like $5000.00. I have one of these bikes, and it is frustrating to know that I cannot properly diagnose my bike's woes without going to a dealer.
I have a '92 Olds Achieva which has the 'Check Engine light' flicker on/off/etc due to a warped computer board (common problem)
I've been getting by without it though;
(yes, I had the common cracked head gasket issue)
Don't just keep driving... also, flip a switch.
The Chevy Sprint and Geo Metro and other Chevy cars of that vintage had a blinking "check engine" light, which would go on automatically as soon as you hit 30,000 miles, and each 30,000 miles, after that.
This was a result of a single-pole, double throw switch in the odometer. There was also a single-pole double-throw switch inside the fuse area (below and two the left of the steering wheel). In other words, a standard two location three-way switch assembly.
The "corrective" action for the blinky light was to bring the car into the dealer, pay them a lot of money for "scheduled maintenance", and whatever engine parts they happened to have an excess of in inventory in their parts department that month.
And for them to toggle the position of the switch in the fuse holder, to turn off the blinky light until you'd gone another 30,000 miles.
Hooray for blinky lights that get people to spend money at the dealer!
-- Terry
Don't laugh about it - one of GMH's vehicles (with an automatic transimission), if you do a sequence like "Ign on - select 1st - Ign off - select Drive - Ign on" it will default to a particular transmission mode that you can't get by pressing any of the knobs or buttons in the car.
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
His "check engine" light had been on for quite a while. He had taken it to a mechanic to see what the problem was when it first came on. The mechanic said that code was for evaporative and the reason was that the gas cap wasn't on tight enough. Well, he cranked the gas cap tight from then on, but the light came right back on.
He didn't give it anymore thought since he was tired of paying the mechanic $100 to "scan the codes". That is, until it came time for emissions inspection. My advice now, don't go to the emissions place if your "check engine" light is on, there is NO WAY you will pass, that's exactly what the tech's there told him. Anyway, disconnecting the battery for an hour or so clears the codes (at least for this car), so after he did that, he took the car back; rejected again, "sensor's aren't ready".
To make a long story short(er), a few trips to the mechanic and emissions place later, he's passed and has a new evaporative "switch" (parts $17, labor $40). This, of course, is after several $100 "diagnostic" fees.
So, watch out, some states have decided that they'd rather not test which cars are actually polluting beyond the regs, they'd rather screw over people whose cars are in spec.
====
TopoFusion GPS Mapping software featuring trail networks.
A few things to know.... These codes being released will not allow you to be able to program your car, you're not gonna have a GNUHonda, it's just gonna allow you to see what the problems are. It also does not mean that youre gonna be able to just go to a webpage and download a program and just be able to work on your car in your garage. what it does mean is still great though. take the Porsche Boxter for example, normally when one comes into the shop you need the Porsche diagnostic tool to be able to reset the computer, which costs $14,000 and only works on a specific model. The availability of these codes means that other companies will be making these tools, so instead of paying Porsche $14,000 you would pay Snap-On around $1,000-3.000.
Blog
uhhh, what you get with a commercial tool is almost always the international standard codes, occasionally manufacturer-specific drivetrain codes. with very few ($2000 and up range) exceptions do you get the "chassis codes" for traction enhancement controls, transmission/engine crosstalk codes, and so on.
you still are not going to get them free, but they will be availiable in updates some day before we all die to professional test readers.
presumably this will also include the equivalent to the "mode 4" international code for the wacko ones. "mode 4" is also known as "reset," turns out the $$$ light on the dash.
wanna check out scanners, including build-your-own, try
http://www.batauto.com/technical/scaninfo.shtml
and for code lists for specific cars, try
http://www.batauto.com/technical/
and click what you want. as usual, you get what you pay for, no deposit no return, use at your own risk, etc. etc.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
you also need the diagnostic trees for the particular auto system(s) that you are trying to fix. you see issues, you pull codes, you work down the diagnostic tree from the factory manual, alldata, whatever... try a couple other tests as prompted by the tree... and > THEN as if by magic, you get down to one or two parts, adjustments, or lame excuses to lay on the customer that solve the particular issue.
if you can't hear, if you can't see, if you are colorblind and chasing wiring, you have some handicaps in the way of fixing a car. same for not having the diag codes from the modules.
none of this has anything to do with reverse-engineering the real-time process code in any of the modules, or using the airbag controller as a circumvention device so you can play DVDs over the heads-up display. it is the equivalent of self-diagnosing system outputs like S.M.A.R.T on hard disks.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Do you understand? This is huge. Huge, huge. This is indeed the "opening" of the closed information source. It's as if MS agreed to open *all* proprietary informational resources (private KBs, training, diag tools, etc.) that were previously used only by their premier tech support reps.
Now will most mechanics avail themselves of this? Heck no. Most don't know or care how to truly troubleshoot; there are easier ways to flag hours that don't involve trying to convince a skeptical customer that you're not ripping them off.
But to those who love troubleshooting, this is manna from heaven. Take codes for example. An earlier poster said they were useless. If all you had was the description of the code, that's a correct statement.
However, if you also knew the exact criteria the PCM needed to see before throwing a code (this knowledge will be one of the takeaways from this act), you could then use your understanding of the proprietary system (a second takeaway) to straightforwardly troubleshoot and fix it.
Make sense? This is a hallmark day for savvy techs (or rather, August 31, 2003 will be <grin>).
Cheers,
-jm
Excellent!
:-)
What do you have to do to make it fly, then?
That Check Engine light was the most annoying thing! When was it lighted, I'd never know if it was signaling 30 seconds to warp-core breach or just a glitched oxygen sensor aft of the catalytic converter. The damned "owner's manual" was pretty vague about it, like "Check Engine: Check Engine". Garages can plug into a port, get it in text, then make "expensive engine repair" noises.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Actually, this is an OBDII compliant product, it can be modified, and with other software work with any OBDII vehicle aka damn near anything, including your subaru outback :)
... where you could go and download those codes? *hum*
I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
http://www.obd2.com/ Check 'em out...
Just thought I'd drop this line, because most people *don't* know how to put out an engine fire.
That includes firemen.
I sold my car a while back, and then about a year later, heard that it had burned. The new owner had taken a church group to a ski resort, and then noticed the engine was burning. He put water on it, and it didn't help. So he called the fire department. They used up all their portable fire extinguishers... no good. It just kept relighting, because the engine was so hot. Eventually the car burned to a crisp.
My *brother*, on the other hand, did successfully put out an engine fire once. It was a car pulled over at the side of the road, and he packed mud on the engine. The mud smothered the flames, and kept the oxygen away until the engine had cooled.
Anyhow, chipping or due to an oil leak (the most common cause *I* know of), there is a way to put those things out.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
I sure hope the backers of the Motor Vehicle Right to Repair Act are not giving up the drive to get that legislation passed just because of a few crumbs thrown by the automakers.
As several in this thread have pointed out, the diagnostic codes are already available. What made this proposed legislation a leap forward is that it mandated in very general terms that the automakers had to empower independent repair shops to fix cars as well as their own dealerships, by whatever means necessary.
Frightened with the prospect of losing their share of the lucrative service business, they are trying to nip this populist movement in the bud.
How many independents and shade-tree mechanics are really going to understand what those diagnostic codes mean? It really doesn't matter if the codes are released; they'll still end up coming to the dealers for many reasons, most because having the codes didn't help them fix the problem. Certain parts are still only available through the dealers - air bags, ECMs, BCMs, etc.
Frankly, I see this as a double edged sword for dealers. On the one hand they'll lose business to the independents, but on the other hand if the indpendents screw up the owners will end up coming back to the dealers. And they still have to come to dealers for certain parts; which is fine by me because it means more money in my pocket every month. (yes, I work for a dealer, but we're not too concerned about the code release).
how does this differ from the pccable used in DashPC. Where he takes a B. Roadman's ODBII serial interface and gathers information about his car?
Or does this suppliment with other amazing codes? Such as access to the odometer in some fashion (i think the only code i am missing on my car) that my dash displays but i cannot.
members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
I'm not sure about USB. Currently, there is a common protocol (OBD-II) for interfacing to the on-board computer; however there are at least 4 different phyical interfaces (Europe + Japan use ISO; GM, Ford, Chrysler each have their own). All cars built in the mid-90's or later have an OBD-II interface; look in your glove box, under your stearing column, some other accessable location.
Your monitor is staring at you.
"I am convinced that the manufacturers of carpet odor removing powder
have included encapsulated time released cat urine in their products.
This technology must be what prevented its distribution during my mom's
reign. My carpet smells like piss, and I don't have a cat. Better go
buy some more."
-- timw@zeb.USWest.COM
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