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Red Hat 8.0 For KDE Users (And Newbies)
pantropik writes "OSNews has been giving quite a bit of bandwidth to Red Hat's newest offering lately. This article, which generated quite a bit of controversy in the comments section, detailed a new user's 'frustrations' with the new release. The latest article, written by yours truly, is rather lengthy, explaining such things as adding 3D drivers, missing MP3 functionality, DVD decoding, using APT with RHL, and customizing Red Hat's modified KDE. At the end, I wrap up with my impression -- as a simple user -- of this 'crippled' KDE implementation. Of course, you can also check out this story, which takes a look at RH 8.0 from 'Joe and Jane User's' perspective."
I used it at work yesteday and all the functionality that I would normally use in KDE was there. It's only a desktop environment, and that's all I expect of it. The Window Manager works fine, the UI is clean and easy to use (just as it was before RH played with it) and the file manager/web browsing works just fine. The first difference I noted was that the links on the panel went to Mozilla and Evolution instead of Konqueror and KMail. I have my links on RH 7.3 at home set to do that anyway.
Follow me
"player 4 hit player 1 with 0 stroms"
As if it isn't hard enough trying to download the ISOs as it is now everyone who was about to lay off the mirrors just got another reminder 8.0 is out. Thanks a lot /.!
I stole this Sig
As the writer wrote:
I was excited to see all the positive, glowing reviews of the latest version of Red Hat Linux. I thought, "finally, I can get away from Windows 98." "It just works" is the mantra. Unfortunately, this was not the case for me.
If the goal is to simply get away from Windows while still maintaining functionality, and you're just a hack user, I would recommend Mac OS X. If you don't have the money to buy new hardware...then I don't know what to tell you.
At this point, Linux is still not going to replace Windows or Mac OS X. And you can't expect REd Hat to solve all the problems in one release. It's a step in the right direction, but this isn't the miracle that Linux needs to attract joe-user.
Don't be so critical.
I am alone, yet I also surf the universal backwash of undifferentiated Being, which is LOVE.
I had the same problem as the author of this article about the slowness.
My computer has a xp 1600+ processor, yet gedit for example took 16 seconds to start (time gedit, then close the window as fast as possible).
Some comments in the article suggested that he should change the hostname. It was possible that X didnt get it correctly, then the apps hadto wait for something to time out.
I saw that the hostname when I typed hostname in the terminal was green.rsn. But in the more standard hostname config files it was localhost.localdomain.
So I changed the hostname from green.rsn to localhost.localdomain
Problem solved. Gnome was now very fast.
So if anyone else has speed problems with Redhat 8.0 this might be worth looking into.
The comments on OSNews refer to the RH8.0 and KDE combo to be extreamly slow. I wonder why that is? Maybe Redhat screwed up some things with changing KDE around?
Maybe the guy turned up the specicial effects knob all the way? I dunno, either way the guy did use a slow machine in the review (500mhz celeron). But I am typing on a p233 mmx right now running FreeBSD/KDE3.0 and it is incredibly fast. (Except Mozilla basically refuses to run on this machine, waaaayy slow. Mozilla runs slower than the Java apps I run on this machine (IDEA, TCC, etc)).
Sorry to say it, but it's high time the KDE - Gnome squabble stopped and both teams started concentrating on a unified desktop.
Consider this : given the fact that both are so refined already, if both worked together, you'd have a UI that easily bypasses anything MS can come up with and Linux becomes a viable desktop for Joe and Jane user (it already is for Joe and Jane techie).
Again, Linux NEEDS a unified desktop. I can't say it more. It may sound sad, but it has to be done.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
To install latest graphics driver from nvidia:
/path/to/packages /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/ /usr/src/redhat/SPECS /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/ /etc/X11/XF86Config /etc/X11/XF86Config-original /etc/X11/XF86Config
cd
ls
cd
rpmbuild -bb NVIDIA*
cd
rpm -Uvh NVIDIA*
cp
pico -w
And then he says: "That's it!"
okay so it looks a lot more complicated than it really is,
but for my mum, that's hardly a consolation..
The problem the person is having is extremely apparent and is stated right at the top of the article: the guy is trying to run X and KDE on a system that only has 64 megs of ram.
Yes, Linux is becoming bloatware. there is not one of us who can deny it. A Celeron 500 with 64 meg of ram is more than enough to run an OS, X server, desktop and browser+office suite. Why it doesnt? the only reason is feature bloat.
I just recently tried RH8.0 (I support RH in a corperate environment) and liked how it looks, but am appalled that in order to deploy it I have to replace all the workstations with new just to keep everything feeling right in speed. (WE have aincent P-III 866's here with a paltry 128 meg of ram... I know... I should be killed and eaten for using such old and outdated hardware.)
Redhat 7.3 is the last stage here.. and if Linux desktops in general keep getting feature bloat and exrta slow-down added... I may have to stand up with egg on my face and reccomend that we switch back to Microsoft in a few years.
KDE and Gnome... they need stop all development and focus on getting a 50% speed increase. If they have to cut and slash to do it, then do it. Mozilla needs to do this as well as Open Office.
everyone is sitting behind the excuse that "processors are ultra fast now and ram is cheap." Linux is not the big fish... we must be faster and sleeker than the big fish to survive and overcome.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I'm using KDE w/ redhat 8 right now, changing everything around and getting rid of that ugly bluecurve theme wasn't that bad. I'm even using KDM. The only thing that I had a problem with was removing that pam icon from the kde taskbar. I ended up renaming the binary... It's /usr/bin/pam-panel-icon if anyone is interested.
I think creating a common theme isn't a bad idea... The feel isn't my cup of tea though, since I don't like gnome. Changing everything wasn't that hard as long as you're familiar with the basic inner workings of the system
Bravo. Nice article with a well-informed opinion piece at the end.
Bought RH 8.0 Professional expecting to get support people that could actually speak English...no luck there. Four calls to tech support and I've yet to find any tech support person that could spell my email address correctly or understand English.
So I post to the Bug-Grub bug reporter thing....no answers yet.
Funny how other OSes(and their respective boot loaders) have no issues on this hardware....but Grub throws an "Error 28....cannot fit selected item into memory" and lilo just hangs or gives me a "CRC error".
I understand, nothing in the IT industry is perfect, but when I pay for support, I expect to get my problems resolved. (That's a stab at RedHat, not the Grub maintainers.) Other commercial OS vendors are quite responsive...I've even had MS tech support people on the phone for hours on end on a Saturday fixing an Exchange problem!
These bootloaders and Redhat's support system need a lot of work before corporate America commits time and resources to their products.
-ted
... I'm definitely going to try that. rpm is in all honesty Not That Great. Didn't know it was that easy, else I'd have gone for it long ago!
I don't plan to go to RH8 on my current machine, because the main improvements seem to be in the Gnome / KDE world, and my computer's just too slow to care - I live in WindowMaker.
And we have to have seen the world's most concise DMCA violation here: 'apt-get install ogle'. Twenty felonious bytes of federal crime and international terrorism...
I think as a whole community we need to show more support for Red Hat because once people see the advantages of Red Hat, it's not a big jump to find your favorite distro (SuSe for me :-) ) and isn't this what we're wanting to happen?
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
Ever heard of usenet?
Last I looked the RH ISOs were on nearly every CD group, just waiting to be snagged.
This is off-topic, but lately I'm finding that more and more people have absolutely no idea what usenet is. I mentioned this to one of our new IT guys here -- a so-called "hot-shot" just out of college -- and wondered if usenet "sells DSL because he can't get it through AT&T."
It's my understanding that RH removed mp3 functionality because of GNU GPL issues, not Thompson's licensing. Apparently, the GPL prevents including code from patented, non-open/free protocols (I don't know the exact clause, but I'm pretty sure it's true). This means that all of the mp3 players out there are actually in violation of the GPL.
Do you really need reason for beer? Wingman Brewers
Newbies using Red Hat and KDE? You don't say!
--
I like to watch.
1) Start up KDE in RedHat 8.0
2) Make theme related changes
3) Write article with conclusion "It's just theme changes, no big deal!"
4) Spend a few minutes trying to figure out how to shut the computer down, then give up and shut down from Gnome or the command line
OSNews had a similar article yesterday with similar complaints.. I thought it was strange that they ran almost the same story today as well. Im running a Cyrix 6x86 at my house and Red Hat 8 with KDE as my desktop runs great. Not as fast as a Windows 95 setup on that box, but much faster than a Windows 98 setup. My KDE response time is pretty decent with this setup. Im running a custom kernel of course, since this box doesnt have half of the stuff that comes pre-compiled or modularized by default. In fact, Im pretty satisfied with Red Hat 8.0, although I wouldnt go so far as to say its noticable faster than 7.3 was, or if there are any noticable improvements other than the included OpenOffice, Evolution, and Synaptic (I use apt-rpm for package management off fresh-rpms). I didnt experience any of the complaints that were described in the article...
Apparently, the GPL prevents including code from patented, non-open/free protocols (I don't know the exact clause, but I'm pretty sure it's true). This means that all of the mp3 players out there are actually in violation of the GPL.
Are you on acid or something? Even if the GPL forbid the use of patented methods (It doesn't), did you even stop for the picosecond it would take you to realise that there are non-GPL MP3 players?
At least you got something right: RedHat removed all MP3 software due to Thompsons fuzzy licencsing terms regarding free software. Use Ogg instead (Or download the mpg123 RPM's yourself if you really must).
I agree with the author about the distributions. I think they load your machine up with several choices for the same application. I have a 192MB PII 266, and I installed RedHat 7.3 and found that I had to tweak and uninstall several things and stop various services before I got reasonably fast GNOME desktop. I know it's a pain to run GNOME on an old box, but still, I am guessing GNOME 2.0 is slower than the 1.4 version I have on my machine. I guess I need a hardware upgrade, but if I just want to choose that path, I might as well go with *gasp* M$FT!
Man, I skipped them and ended up getting burned bad! They made it where you can't enable Direct Memory access on your dvd player unless you modify /etc/modules.conf and put a options line in it. I banged my head on my desk for hours wondering why I couldn't get my DVD player to work right until I read a note on Ogle's FAQ. So, just a reminder to all you DVD playing cats out there, read the release notes!
/etc/modules.conf file:
DMA is disabled on CD-ROM drives in this release in a different but more reliable way than previously. If you are sure that your CD-ROM drive is capable of IDE DMA, place the following line in the
options ide-cd dma=1
is the solution to speed problems. A bit of RTFM-ing on their website shows up gcc flags that can be used to compile all the binaries effortlessly from scratch that will result in 200% speed increase (damn I start sounding like a pron site :P) RedHat is just a distribution like all the others. A bloated distribution with a poor package management system too. Not to mention default security.
Note to Linux newbies: you should try other distributions as well. RedHat is just not the way. And for servers, Linux is not the way to go. FreeBSD is the schnitz when it comes to http servers, samba, you name it. If it has networking and it's a server, it will run on FreeBSD.
--davoid
Personally, I use Blackbox. Why? Because I have the right to *choose*.
---
IMHO, of course.
May the SOURCE be with you.
the guy is trying to run X and KDE on a system that only has 64 megs of ram.
Why does Red Hat Linux have to require a lot of RAM? Some of its competing products (namely Windows 98se and Windows 2000) are happy with 64 MB.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Let's see if RedHat 8.0 works as a business desktop, its STATED target.
Easy for admin to deploy. check
Easy to use desktop even for a windows user. check
Comes with a great Office Suite and email client. check
Comes with a fast stable web browser. check
The best fonts and font tool ever for a linux distro. check
Absolutly 100% free to download ISO's. check
A billion times more secure than Outlook/IE. check
Responsive on modern(1GHz 256MB) machines. check
Companies has given/gives back a LOT to the community. check
I've been using Redhat since 5.0 and I've also pretty much every distro under the sun. For desktop linux this is a high wark mark. It still has a few rough edges when it comes to consumer usage, but really for the business desktop this is deployable NOW. If I were starting a company today there is not doubt RH 8 would be my choice regardless of cost. Also remember this is Redhat's FIRST attempt at the desktop. I can only imagine how good Redhat 8.1 or 8.2 is going to be.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
me me me ... I've been using RH80 for a few days now. I was initially a bit scared of the XP-ish UI, but I found it to be quite pleasant and non-annoying like the real XP.
...
/root. Most commonly, the end user is root, but probably runs as a normal user most of the time. I don't want to log out, and log back into the GUI as root, just to perform some basic tasks.
There are a few things that initially annoy me, but these are relatively minor and I'm sure they'll be addressed in the next point releases
1. The lack of MP3 support in XMMS is retarded. Supposedly, they were going to provide an alternate XMMS plugin that would at least inform the user about MP3 support, but somehow that didn't make its way into the final release. So, try to initially play an MP3... doesn't work, no information about *why*. (not a problem for me, because I just went and compiled up my own xmms, but for an average joe, this would be a problem).
2. I'm sick of Mozilla being included in these distros without any plugins! For christs sake, at least throw some java in there by default!!
3. Logged into gnome as a regular user, there should be some way to supply a root password into Nautilus to be able to manage files in restricted folders, such as
4. Some bugs... don't leave any non-gnome apps open when you log out, such as xmms or gkrellm. If you do, when you log back in, your session will be f*cked and for some odd reason, you won't be able to log out. The fix (if this happens to you) is to go to one of the many setup menus and find the "sessions" admin app, and clear the non-gnome apps from the current session and save. Then, you'll be able to log out and return to normal.
5. FIRSTBOOT!! There's a daemon that runs on the first boot, and it uses X. Sometimes, at least in VMWARE, X fails to load for firstboot, and hence, it gets skipped. Without going through the firstboot process, certain parts of the distro get broken, such as the hostname, and thus, gnome runs like crap with hostname problems.
6. Too many setup menus!! There are just too many menus for configuring the system. Seems kinda redundant, and silly to have to search through multiple menus to locate a single app because the user can't remember whether the item is in "preferences" or "system settings".
7. Get rid of the "extras" menu... just move those apps to their appropriate menu items. For example, the x-chat IRC client is located in the "extras menu" beneath "internet"... well, it should be in the real "internet" menu.
--------
Thats it from the complaint dept. Otherwise, even as an experienced linux user (and a CLI oriented programmer at that), I find the RH80 gui environment to be extremely nice to usem, wihtout many annoyances.
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
If the goal of Linux is to run on lots of hardware, including the not so old 500mhz boxes, then Redhat has lost the spirit of Linux, which makes me wonder what the longer term implications of this are. The distribution should follow the spirit of the kernel.
It also makes me wonder when Linus will put his foot down, I would be very surprised if he does'nt as these distributions simply "don't understand" the whole point of Linux.
Or should Linus setup a Linux distribution, that would make Redhat conform too.
I've noticed that a lot of Linux distribution reviews from people who have little experience with Linux say it's slow.
I don't get it. Why? An earlier RedHat 8.0 review from Eugenia says that RedHat 8.0 is *faster* than previous versions. GNOME 1 users reported that GNOME 2 is a lot faster (and I agree with them; GNOME 2 IS a lot faster, especially Nautilus).
I have an Athlon 1.4 Ghz with 128 MB RAM, and running on GNOME 2. It's very usable (I use Linux as my primairy OS) and fast. Compared to Windows ME, there's not much difference.
Yet the article says everything is slow as hell, even the one with 128 MB RAM.
Why? Why is it half of all reviews say that the desktop is slow while the other half say it's fast?
Have to agree. If you actually just want it to work (and get away from Windows), use your x86 architecture as a server/firewall/router and go out and buy a Mac. Short term investment in long term functionality, ease of use and underlying power.
This guy is using a dinosaur notebook. It only has 64mb of RAM, a 4.3gig HD and a Celeron400a (whatever that means. Whats the Mhz on that thing?)CPU.
I'm starting to wonder. Is one of the requirements to being a faithful free software proponent that you suffer using old and vastly outdated hardware to compliment your largely incompatible and non-user-friendly software? Then once you've installed the latest distro, which is surely a lot more resource hungry then the fabled "bare kernels" which so many love to boast they've installed on their toasters, you bitch about how slowly it performs? Give me a break.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
yes. now we see what red hat has been looking to do since the beginning. it's looking to take something and make it theres. you have two awesome things, in kde and gnome, and red hat brands them both as if red hat made them. not giving credit to the people who put all this hard work into it every single night. also, who is very much synonymous with linux to new users? red hat. red hat was the company (along side of valinux) who hit big in the stock market. anybody in business will know red hat, but will they know debian or slack? not, unless they really dive into this mysterious world which is the linux saga. only then do new users see that there are many many more choices. (maybe sitting on the shelf next to them, and maybe they will buy non-red hat, but what made them come to the store? a little guy wearing a red hat.) there is a reason that red hat has a majority of the linux public. it's because of association. people immediately associate linux with red hat. i work in a computer lab, and when people ask me to install linux for them, i ask which distro? and they look at me with a blank stare and say, huh? this maybe only happens here, i don't know.
I write code.
I thought he just went to Linux conferences six days a week. I just kind of find it hard for a leading Linux developer to actually...y'know...
Yay! More supression of free speech, this time from our favorite crippleware!
Apply thisto your flawed logic:
"The leaf-shaped island, one of the most densely populated places on earth with 21 million people, is only about 245 miles long and 90 miles wide. It is dwarfed by mainland China, with a population of 1.2 billion."
Hmm $40 * potentially 1.2 billion
OR
$40 * potentially 21 million
Red Hat could sell v8.0 in China for 25 cents, to 25% of the population, and STILL make more than retail to 100% of Taiwan.
What company do you work for, and what symbol is it traded under? Because the REST of us know that something as simple as a flag could be re-added by one of the 21 million Taiwaneese, if they so desire.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Problems ? At a Redhat x.0 release ? *yawn*
No vendor is perfect. If this release isn't, there will always be updates and 8.1 down the road.
My 2 cents including tax.
RedHat says there is no mp3 support, but surprisingly there is! ;-) The trick. Mozilla :). They have by default added a plugin(plugger).
Plugger can play Quicktime, mpg and mp3 in the browser window. Well not many of us like to listen to mp3 in mozilla, but this completely refutes Red Hats claim about not including mp3 support coz "We dont want to be the first to be sued". To be frank, wether the support is in mozilla or xmms, if hypothetically there was a case of patent violation, it wouldnt really matter. Well now that the roayalty has been removed it dosent matter, but my guess is that this hindsight was there mostly due to lack of knowledge... or mebbe there is some developer sitting with a sense of humour!
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
Microsoft pulled tens of thousands of copies of Office XP after it went gold because the MS contact address was listed as Taipei, Taiwan, ROC. The final release missed out the ROC, and this was the only file that was changed!
Up the price to $3 ;)
The point is the same. (just less flair)
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Then Gnome and KDE would be very similar, but would also remain separate. KDE would use Konq for file/web, Gnome would use Nautilus/Mozilla respectively, etc.
Then users could mix and match components, developers could choose which development architecture they want, and users would see a consistent desktop with common themes and fonts.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Meanwhile, a quick Google search leads to:
One
Two
Three
Check your hardware.
Just like you, I think its important that computers are as unintuitive and complicated to use as possible! So, I broke her arms and tied them behind her back, so that she has to "type" by smashing her head into the keyboard. If she tries to use a GUI, then I'll kill a pet. I think its only fair.
nor suze posts because I've setup filters to trash them. ...etc...
Why ?
Because many of those many posts come from users having difficulties with choices the heavy thinkers of those distros made. And I got fed up of reading the same problems all over again. And the same answers, to the point that some day those lists look like a big huge faq.
"This a suze related problem. The solution to this problem can be found on suze forum "...etc
Most of the times, the initiative was good and those people are quite eager to do the right thing, they just seem unable to do it THE RIGHT WAY.
In the KDE case, it would have meant in order to do the right thing (desktop appearence unification): to talk with KDE people to warn them and have feedback from them, to show respect for their work and project (leave the small about kde box in the app they put aside anyway) and to show that they have heard their concerns about a supposed preference toward gnome and that they're not funded (because they are not, right?).
But NO, they had to push it under the hat(!) and suddenly, flamewars everywhere, like we need them.
And in order to do it the right way for end users (because they are target for desktop unification, right? I mean, who ELSE need it?), that would mean a little less twinked systems which will behave a little more like everyone else's. If you don't believe me, go and check last transgaming release and see what systems have kernel related issues with last winex release.
If the real issue behind all this was to do the best desktop for end users, they certainly did it the wrong way.
Now, I am the type of guy who doesn't mind editing some config files by hand and has plenty of Big Heavy Books about *nix. However, almost every piece of documentation on configuring X recommends using Xconfigurator. I naively believed what I read and never bothered with manually editing X's config files. Big mistake. Xconfigurator does not come with Psyche. I poked around for a few hours before getting so furious with the thing that I simply repartitioned and started from scratch. This time I picked the right monitor.
I know that people with a higher wisdom stat than I would have been just fine in this scenario, and I never claimed to be an expert, but the simple ability to test my X setup in the installer would have turned this 3 hour hangup into a 10 second goof. But like I said, this option might be present for people with more up to date hardware. (Doh, I use linux partially because my hardware is older.)
Other than that, I love Psyche. Mostly I'm enamored with the latest versions of all the included software, but the sum is composed of the parts.
Tell me again why all the distro's are still compiled to run on a 386? How many 386's have enough memory to run the GUI?
We are talking desktop's here, not email servers.
The Linux community is a little clueless when it comes to what the majoity of computer users want. If Apple (I know I know) can do it in 4 or 5 years, why can't RedHat do it?
"It just works."
I just wanted to say that was a really great, well-written and informative article. Thanks!
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
I have been thinking and gathering additional packages in anticipation of going to Redhat 8.0.
_ _________
I have been using SuSE which is really nice but the deal clincher for me has been the fact I use Gnome and the integration of Gnome and the System Tools used by Redhat are much better than the integration of System Tools into Gnome that SuSE provides.
I want a unified look and feel and use almost entirely gtk/gnome apps except for OpenOffice of course.
BTW, when I say this I must mention and no one else ever does that SuSE does an excellent job of integrating its System Tools into KDE. Just go to the control center in KDE and you can get to every System Function provided by Yast2. If you use KDE SuSE is the winner. I just hate the look and feel of KDE. Its just me.
Anyway, I am still waiting though. Why? The main reason I will probably wait until Gnome 2.2 and the release of Redhat in a few years considering Redhat's release schedule than includes that version of Gnome by default. The reason is the fact that until Gnome 2.2 most apps I know and love and will not be ported over by default. I have compiled them one by one on my SuSE box and do not care to repeast that move.
On the whole desktop issue I will say that it is entirely possible to create a good desktop for linux using the currently available tools. However, there are still too many downloads -- ltmodem, Nvidia drivers, i8kutils for the laptop users, core MS fonts and other things (even more for Redhat 8.0, too much preparation needed (checking for hardware compatibility with current hardware for example) and too much after work needed to set the desktop up in a usable state.
BTW, does anyone else hate that extras submenu everything else gets installed under for Redhat 8.0 it sounds nasty. SuSE solution of the all-encompassing distro menu is equally evil though. With linux, the problem is quickly becoming not too few options but too many options for a newbie to sort through.
_______________________________________
ACK
One more thing to add to my list...
Regarding browser plugins, the default netscape location for plugins (/usr/lib/netscape/plugins) should be a symlink to the mozilla plugins directory. When some popular "netscape" plugins are installed, such as realplayer, it automatically puts itself in the default netscape location.
For a "joe user", this would probably be a big problem because after installing a plugin, realplayer, flash player, etc... it doesn't work unless the user manually copies the files from the netscape plugin directory into the mozilla plugin directory.
Huge problem, with a simple solution.
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
This is really an incorrect philosophy - one that is evident in the argument that Linux is not the distribution but the kernel that is common to all Linux-based distributions. Even the modern, stable kernel of Linux runs on a 386 processor, some slow RISC processors, and a handful of other legacy chips that have pretty much long left our desktops. The kernel falls in line with these goals.
When developing for small platform devices (hand helds, tablets, etc.) one does not think "how do I fit Gnome or KDE on this little thing". On the contrary - it poses a problem that the open source community is ready to tackle. FLTK (fast lightweight tool-kit), among many others, was developed to bring graphics to small hand held devices. The spirit of "Linux", or rather the open source community and all of the software which it provides, lives on - on the hardware of old, hardware of new, and hardware of the extremely small.
The distributions which use Linux as the kernel are made up of all kinds of utilities and applications. All of which are considered modern and targetted for modern times. To be nostalgic and develop all software to run "antique" hardware is not intuitive - why not take advantage of what our computers have to offer? Do we not enjoy vehicles with anti-lock brakes, air conditioning, a quiet cabin, engines which start almost flawlessly, and all sorts of other amenities that we take for granted?
Software, as well as the hardware upon which it is run, is constantly changing - adapting to the needs of the people who use the computers and as well as the computers themselves. I find it ironic that over the years that Linux-based distributions have increasingly become more popular, more advanced, and more feature-rich the groaning has switched from "Linux doesn't have enough stuff or it isn't stable like my Windows box" to "Linux is so bloated it doesn't run on my four year old machine." Another old argument was "Linux is too hard to understand and configure" - now the argument has switched to "they hide too much of the specifics". Distributions were developed so that the users of those distributions had a convenient and consistent environment to take advantage of the latest and greatest software offerings. Of course the interfaces change over time but developing utilities to replace legacy applications within a distribution maintains a level of consistency to help, not restrict, the end-user.
Red Hat, Mandrake, SuSE, Debian, et al. are all attempting to take advantage of the modern offerings that our technologically elite provide us in terms of hardware and software concepts. To do so would be living in a era of restriction - preventing Linux-based distributions from forging ahead to utilize the technologies that only Microsoft could provide for (in the past).
Face the facts - most people want an easy to use operating system. Consistency is nice! Fancy features are nice! A good looking interface is nice! A faster, more responsive system is nice! It's frustrating to see people ready to tear down an honest effort of an organized entity to provide features requested by their paying customers and the comments of the open source community as a whole.
It's very confusing when the mob asks for "consistency and features like Windows" and then immediately gripes when the consistency and features are added into the distribution. Nonetheless - you have a choice. Use Red Hat's, Mandrake's, SuSE's, Debian's, or the other's offerings. Build a Linux distribution from scratch and add your home-grown, home-built installation of KDE. When a company attempts to differentiate its product to better suit its customers (paying and the open source community), be constructive in your criticism and inform the developers of your suggestions rather than finding a forum to gripe because a piece of 2002 software will not run on your 1996 hardware platform.
Ayup
A problem in Gentoo-land that's coming up is that none of the big Java vendors ship JRE's that are compatible with Mozilla compiled with GCC 3.2.
From the review it sounds like Java is working fine in Mozilla on this new Redhat. Does Redhat use a Mozilla compiled under the older GCC, or did they get a JRE compiled with GCC 3.2. If the latter, anyone tried installing it on Gentoo?
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
Do you have your system overclocked by any chance? I have an overclocked system that runs fine in windows, but fails with a CRC error when it tries to load the ram disk for the linux install. Slowing down the system fixed this problem
Need to check which version of Grub they use, but Grub flaked out 2 times after I installed the RedHat 8.0. I finally used a mandrake install cd to get a good version of Grub working again so I could boot.
Grub complained about my partition table during the install, but did finally install and work.
A quick check on Google popped up the following links:
s db/en/html/kfr_50.html
g e2-errors.html - of-Mon-20020729/005620.html 0 0-March/000346.html
(LILO CRC error...)
http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue50/tag/24.html
http://brenner.chemietechnik.uni-dortmund.de/doc/
(Grub cannot fit selected item into memory)
http://www.gnu.org/manual/grub-0.92/html_node/Sta
http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/pipermail/linuxers/Week
http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/20
Based on those links, I'd be chasing down something taking some of your low memory away from you so that it doesn't boot right. Keep in mind, it may still be an ailing HD as intimated in the LILO links. As for the bootloaders being ready, they are- you've got a special case that's causing you problems and many, many others don't seem to have your issues with them. I can't speak of Red Hat's support since I've not used their distribution in a while- so you may have a beef there.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Just to provide a dissenting viewpoint:
i am have worked for corporate America in IT for about a decade now. If there was no RedHat - i would not have been able to convince even one of my bosses to let me put Linux on a server. Since i had RedHat to point to, i was able to convert a relatively significant amount of businesses and government offices in this area to Linux. I was able to get in the paper a couple times, in the business section, and evangelize a bit.
Also, i have used RedHat's support and have never had a problem with their language skills. Though, for disclosure's sake, i'm pretty good at wading through "accents." (or rather, i don't always notice them)
One thing for Microsoft is that their support is great, and i can't say that RedHat's is better or worse... except that community support for Linux is superior.
Quite honestly, RedHat specifies what their OS is compatible with (HCLs), and if you're in a corporate environment you check the HCL before you load the OS. You don't get support unless you're on a supported config, etc. etc.
This post is so dry (i would normally do something about it). doomo sumimasen
siliC
I'm one of those guys that just can't resist installing a fresh new copy of the latest version of RH the day after is is released. With all the hype surrounding 8.0, I was stoked to start running this OS. Truthfully, I was less interested in the GUI and more focused on the integration of Apache 2.0, gcc 3.2..etc. The install was quick, AND painless. BUT, the damn installer would not allow me to "deselect" the base DBMSs and install MYSQL alone unless I "selected all packages individually".
Seems ODD to me....
Other than that...the only problems I had was with my own PHP code being incompatible with the latest version of PHP 4.2.x (which also annoys me). Oh, and P.S. don't try to "dump your data" out of your old phpMyAdmin, and try to import it in to the new version. IT NADA WORK.
But I must say, RH 8.0's interface is perty. Sucks there is no MP3 support..Unless you go HERE
The article mentions the Control Center??? Where the hell is it??? I looked all over hell for it on 8.0! It's not on the desktop, not in the menus. For that matter where is the Wine Configuration GUI??? It took me FOREVER just to get my stinking printer working! A PRINTER for crying out loud!!!!!!! And what happened to the Xconfigurator tool???? Their "display" gui tools won't let me set 32-bit colors! Only 16 or 24, and I don't have 24. What, am I stuck with 16? This is an improvement?? I'm not a Linux guru by any means, so someone tell me if I'm just smoking something.
Anonymous Cowards suck.
The first time you use RedHat/Whatever they run that god-awful thing that creates the locate database, etc. HEY REVIEWERS! LET THE MACHINE SIT FOR A FEW HOURS BEFORE LOGGING IN FOR THE FIRST TIME!!!!
I'm using KDE, cups, any many things that are not defaulted by redhat. KDE in RH 8 has some small annoying bugs, and it quite slow. So, I rebuild it with i686 target. kdelibs and kdebase are done and the bugs gone and I think it's a bit faster too. Now I'm drebuilding other KDE packages.
.)
:-)
:-)
(just a note, rebuilding is a quick-fix for many bugs, remember noatun came with mandrake 8 that doens't play any song? Rebuild it and it's singing
I'm a happy RH8, KDE user
Now, about that 'crippled' part. Well, if you know enough that KDE is crippled, then you can un-cripple it yourself. Everything is there, just find it. (except mp3, but apt-get install xmms does the trick)
If you are new to linux, then you don't use KDE anyway, because, if you choose default when install (which all newbies should do), the you end up using gnome.
yeb, I'm a happy RH8, KDE user
have a nice day
These bootloaders and Redhat's support system need a lot of work before corporate America commits time and resources to their products.
Corporate America should be clamoring to roll out Linux on the desktop. It will happen eventually once the PHBs realize how much money could be saved. We need to stop thinking emotionally about our work machines and treat them for what they are: appliances. It's a toaster to help you be more productive and get your job done more efficiently. Beyond that it's an expense, a liability.
When users at the company I work for complain about not being able to download the latest beta video card drivers or bring in their games from home, they often glaze over as I explain that these are work appliances and not play machines. I think we need to start helping users make the distinction. Most of the users here need very few applications - email, word processing, spreadsheet, presentation package, an instant messenger, maybe a web browser. For those who require software for which there is no free alternative, sure, give them a windows desktop and license the software. Otherwise, the choice ought to be clear.
Show the business folks the numbers. Show them how many thousands (millions?) of $$ the company could be saving on licenses. Put half of that back into the system and hire some good people to make it all work. People like me who, probably with a few minutes to a few days, could figure out why the boot loader is barfing on brand XYZ PC.
Linux isn't ready for the everyday home user's PC. At home we expect to be able to put the CD in the drive, click "Setup", and have it just work. At the office, there ought to be more behind the decision to go with commercial software than "it's what I read in a magazine on the flight here" or "it's what everybody uses at home" or (my absolute pet peeve) "it's industry standard."
He's 100% right. It's fuckups like this on the major distros that will do to linux what apple did to themselves.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Plugger doesn't magically play content by itself.
In order for it to play content for MP3 files, it needs mpg123 or something similar. If mpg123 and it's ilk aren't included on RH, plugger can't play MP3 files. I don't know if RH has omitted mpg123 or not, but I suspect so.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Now, Red Hat is cool and everything, but LA Confidential is a movie worth watching on whatever OS you care to run. Guy Pierce, David Straithairn, James Cromwell, Kevin Spacey, Russell Crowe, Kim Basinger, even the often-annoying Danny DeVito are all excellent. (And anyone who's also a fan of Cryptonomicon may agree with me that Crowe in this movie is as close to the character of Bobby Shaftoe as we're likely to see on screen unless someone talks N. Stephenson into a script.) It's a film that's worth having on DVD and stepping through each scene slowly to savor the storytelling, cinematography, well-chosen music, pacing ...
Which is to say, the combination of the new RH and this article did not have me pulling my hair out in anger, it had me watching movies.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
most boxes you buy nowadays come with at least 128 or even 256 MB
Most school systems don't have enough money to purchase "boxes you buy nowadays".
One can't seriously expect to run bells-and-whistle software on hardware that was simply not designed to run effectively with it.
Are there any popular Linux or BSD distributions that 1. are easy to install and configure and 2. have an easy-to-find, easy-to-use, non-bells-and-whistles GUI?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Say what you want about profit and money, but when marketing conflicts the ideals of free software (freedom), I choose not to use RedHat anymore.
There are lots of other Linux distributors who still supports the ideals of free software and open source. They'll get my business.
I bought RH 7 to run on an old (Dual P-Pro 200) Compaq machine that used to be running SCO Unix. I couldn't get it installed. I emailed RH support with the specs of the box (Standard Compaq Proliant 2500) and the error the installer gave me (invalid root or something).
They replied back the next day "Try installing in text mode" then the next day, "Use a command line of...". That went on for 2 weeks, till they finnaly read the specs on the machine (Compaq SmartRaid controller) and said "Sorry, we don't support RH installation on servers with raid controllers." To be honest, Compaq wasn't much help ethier. They simply had a pointer to the Compaq array controller driver on sourceforge.
How silly of me to install a server O/S on a server. So I installed Win2K.
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
I believe someone on slashdot posted this link to the XMMS MP3 Plugin for Red Hat 8.0 a couple days ago. I guess some of ya'll aren't paying attention. :)
GO HERE
I read the OSNews article about "Joe and Jane User" and I have to say, no matter how much you pretend that you are a newbie, unless you really are one, then I feel like you can't understand our frustration. I am just getting my feet wet in Linux and it has been a little hard since I don't know the difference between GNOME and KDE except that they have different background and act a little differently and overall are slightly different. Having been a long time Windows user, I don't really care about the differences. So, I think that RedHat has done a great job of combining the two destops into one to ease confusion for oridinary users like myself. Way to go RedHat.
I installed just fine and dandy with RH 7.0. It's all in what SCSI hardware was installed on it. Think of it as something being or not being on the current HCL- you had a config that didn't match up the HCL at the time for Red Hat. Should have checked the HCL ahead of time instead of blaming the distribution, etc.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
But Gnome, too. I was very frustrated that the new version of Sawfish has the "new feature" of removed functionality. You cannot use viewports, and edge-flipping is therefore impossible by default.
Rather than try to LISP my way out of this cage, I actually put Enlightenment on there, and despite its ancient state, it's serving me much better than the optionless Sawfish. Gnome2 in general, while it is very sleek and anti-aliased, seems to have fewer options than it ought to; and in some cases, fewer than it already had in the past.
It's all going according to
touch .htmlrc
echo "X11BROWSER=/usr/bin/konqueror" >> .htmlrc
thats it! now webbrowser is konqueror instead of mozilla, or opera, etc, etc.
-- "of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Dennis Miller
I buy all the parts for a brand new system every five years. About every 12-18 months during that span, I upgrade the hardware and software piecemeal. What I upgrade and when depends on my needs. Games or a new kind of CPU seem to be the most common reason. Although I grant that gaming probably wouldn't be as much of an issue on a Mac.
The trouble with paying for Apple hardware and software is that you will always have to pay for Apple hardware and software. I buy high-end components and build my own systems. Everything "just works" fine for me. If Apple decides to change a EULA in Mac OS X what happens? If iTunes or the iPod incorporate DRM crap, what does everyone do? If they release a system that can't be sufficiently upgraded, what then? None of the cost-of-ownership stuff I've seen covers having to replace an aging iMac.
I don't want to start a flamefest or a religious war, but for me the right OS is Linux (and Win98 for games). You make a good point, however. Mac OS X passes the "Mom Test" with flying colors.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
What company do you work for, and what symbol is it traded under? Because the REST of us know that something as simple as a flag could be re-added by one of the 21 million Taiwaneese, if they so desire.
Ok, well let's continue, shall we? I'll submit a patch to KDE removing the US flag, because you're not a sovereign nation, you're simply a renegade province of the UK and as such, you don't need a flag. Right?
Damnit, there are some things that are more important than making money! Like freedom and democracy? Things that Taiwan has, and mainland China doesn't. It's bad enough that governments around the world have kow-towed to this Chinese insanity, but a 'free software' company?
It's not even like it makes a lot of sense economically - although the potential Chinese market is huge, the vast majority are way too poor to even afford a PC, let alone consider paying for software. Whereas Taiwan is an extremely rich, extremely high-tech country that manufactures most of the components in your PC, and doesn't bat an eyelid at the idea of paying for software. Red Hat have also quite possibly blown their chances of getting any kind of cooperation or investment from Taiwanese tech giants like Via.
I just don't get it. What's going on here?
Good Luck!
But here are a few suggestions:
/root.
1. The lack of MP3 support in XMMS is retarded.
http://freshrpms.net/psyche.html Download the xmms-mp3 rpm and run "rpm -i xmms-mp3...". Should take no more than 2 minutes.
3. Logged into gnome as a regular user, there should be some way to supply a root password into Nautilus to be able to manage files in restricted folders, such as
That was so easy, I think everyone just ignored it. That's what the Terminal (RedHatStart->SystemTools->Terminal) is for. Run "su root" or just "su" (switch user) and supply the root password. Proceed to command the hell out of your box, possibly destroying everything with all that power that root offers.
4. Some bugs... don't leave any non-gnome apps open when you log out, such as xmms or gkrellm. If you do, when you log back in, your session will be f*cked and for some odd reason, you won't be able to log out. The fix (if this happens to you) is to go to one of the many setup menus and find the "sessions" admin app, and clear the non-gnome apps from the current session and save. Then, you'll be able to log out and return to normal.
Alternatively, don't save your session when you log out. (I understand it may still be a bug nevertheless, but that might help.)
5. FIRSTBOOT!! There's a daemon that runs on the first boot, and it uses X. Sometimes, at least in VMWARE, X fails to load for firstboot, and hence, it gets skipped. Without going through the firstboot process, certain parts of the distro get broken, such as the hostname, and thus, gnome runs like crap with hostname problems.
As root, edit "/etc/hosts". Run hostname and set the correct hostname.
Some other things you can configure on your own.
It isn't perfect (yet), but as a Free Software community, we have come a VERY long way on our own and that's something to be very proud of.
Cheers.
Windows 98 came out in 1998 ... RH 8.0 came out TODAY ... So try to be a little fair in your Linux/Windows comparisons from now on.
Microsoft still issues bug fixes for Windows 98. Does Red Hat still issue bug fixes for Red Hat 6.x, which came out around the time of Windows 98?
What Linux desktop operating system will 1. run in GUI mode on hardware that a school system owns (which may include 5-6 year old PCs), 2. not be easily broken into (remember Red Hat Linux's old nickname "Root Hat"), and 3. be easy to install and configure?
Will I retire or break 10K?
This is a installtion problem, your post has nothing to do with the RedHaT Desktop Flamming War.
Kinda off topic, but regarding rh 8's great font rendering, a new extension called RandR has been included to XFree's, allowing you to change resolution on the fly (not virtual res) and XFT support/gtk2 support for mozilla is almost ready!
Check out here
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
I'm an windows using EE with some unix experience, and I've installed Linux several times, so I figured using it wouldn't be THAT hard.
I tried for a day to change the screen resolution (failed), and after spending 2 hours trying to eject a CD I hunted down a guru who typed some commands and made it eject.
Stupid me, assuming the button on the drive would do it, or there would be a gui option. Hell, even finding the directory with the contents of the CD was a pain in the ass. I expect a learning curve, but I don't have time for that.
Back to Windows.
For #3,
$ su
# nautilus &
I built a new flex ATX box this past weekend and, after discovering that the world of Red Hat mirrors goes far beyond those listed on Red Hat's official page, downloaded 8.0 and installed it.
I use Linux on servers heavily at work and also have a web / imap / general purpose Linux (rh 7.2) server at home. However I have not used a Linux desktop very much.
After exploring GNOME, KDE, etc. for a few days, I have come to the conclusion that, for an administrator today, a Linux desktop is a good way to host multiple terminal sessions but the GUI is of little help.
What happened to linuxconf? Am I now supposed to begin the nightmare of configuring sendmail completely by hand? It looks like Red Hat has ripped out linuxconf completely and replaced it with the Helix stuff for SOME of the functions.
Does GNOME/Nautilus have a CD icon at all?
Why is there no applet to that centralizes metacity settings? Yet we have whole applications to manage a single binary switch.
The Mac and Windows do a lot more to let the administrator stay in the GUI for many simple tasks. Linux is definitely not there yet.
I just now installed and booted Red Hat 8.0 on this Dell Dimension 4300 Win2k machine here at the office, went to Slashdot, and found this story. Red Hat 8.0 flawlessly detected the Rage 128 and SyncMaster 570V flat screen, the sound card, the Ethernet connection, the network structure, the printer -- it just works.
Now, it set up Gnome by default. I've been going back and forth between Gnome and KDE, and I'm a KDE guy on this particular week. I was prepared to be annoyed when it booted into Gnome, but you know what I realized? I don't care. It's a desktop. It looks great. I don't give a damn what desktop environment that it's running, at least while I have my worker-bee hat on.
I'm just happy that I could open up OpenOffice and pick up my work where I left off on the Win2k side of the machine with Word, Excel, Acrobat and G3 fax image files, and everything just works. The rest is all details beyond my current interest.
-Waldo Jaquith
...and newbies ???
KDE users are newbies you IDIOT.
KDE is only for immature amateurs who don't know how to use a computer. (And Krauts who don't know that America is the greatest country in the free world) I need my computer to look cool like my car. Neon baby! That's why I use Enlightenment. I can make my computer look and feel the way I need it to. Who gives a shiznit about checkbooks and writing. The only other thing a computer is good for is a lot of pr0n. Word up to my peepz! Themez, Pr0n, MP3z, moviez... that's all anyone needz.
Just had a similar problem on a simlar box with W2K. Did you rebuild the RAID before installing?
Uh, yeah, you can get USENET through BellSouth; try using news1.lig.bellsouth.net as your server.
My Blog. Sela Ward can sell me long distanc
I just finished my review, its from the perspective of someone switching from Windows XP... I've still got some things left to do but for the most part the switch was sucessfull
[click here]
Redhat 8.0 is great.
-----------
--------- If its possible it will happen, If its impossible it will just take longer
oh no my favorite gui is gone....no pretty pictures.....*sob* go back and use M$. "In the begining was the command line" and thats all i need
You are correct, Sir. RH 7.0 was not supporting older Compaq 2500 series SmartRAID controller. However Compaq DID support the SmartArray controller in 2000 with the 380(DM?) series and above. The SmartStart CD instructs you to install an Compaq Array as if it were a SCO install, and set up your RAID array normally from there. I have tried RH 6.x and 7.x on some very crusty old Compaq Proliants and it did work, however with the cavats above
I may be bad with names, but I'll never forget your IP address
OK, OK, OK...
Hardware:
Intel D850EMV2 motherboard (P15 bios)
Adaptec 2110s scsi raid controller
Pentium 4 2.8 Ghz
512 MB rambus memory
Nvidia GeForce 3 Ti 500
Dual Seagate 65 GB scsi hard drives (raid 1)
The Intel motherboard does not allow for overclocking, and all the hardware is stuff by major vendors...nothing unusual here.
Before the install, I thought the scsi controller might have been a problem, but the dpti2o.o driver works just fine...it sees the hard drive and allows me to do an install.
Sure, something could be taking up the low memory area on my machine (yes, I tried the relocation option on the scsi card). My point is, that I don't want to run old hardware just to avoid compatibility problems. I want to run really new hardware and I want it to "just work" as the RH tag line goes.
-ted
That's first order bullshit. My wife runs Red Hat 7.3 on an AMD K6/2 400 with 128MB of RAM and it's very snappy, thank you. Yes, Gnome and KDE run just fine, faster in fact than w2k runs better hardware where I work. Only Nautulis and Mozilla feel slow on that hardware, Mozilla can be turned off in favor of gmc, and Mozilla, works just fine once started. "Exlorer" is not comperable to Nautulis, but GMC runs much faster than Exlorer ever will. So, even Red Hat's supposedly "bloated" release runs just fine before this version. If you want a really lean distro go for Debian. I've never experienced a full scale break like the reviewer has and so, this problem he had is far from the universal Linux experience.
My wife's red hat fits in 1.4 GB of disk space. My Debian fits in 700 MB. This includes several full browsers, window managers, file viewers, compilers, editors and sofware that tries to sing and dance.
It's sad to hear that 8.0 might be buggy, but then again, the ".0" Red Hats are known for that. Wait for 8.2 if you want stability or just go get the last 7.whatever. It could be that this particular user had a sound card that was flawlessly detected wrong ran away with his processor.
In my house, Lixus has replaced Windows. Sometimes there have been problems, but it's been worlds better. Windows problems were invariably curred by spending $250 on a new OS. Linux problems are solved by changing a text file or two or removing the offending software. It helpst to have more computers than one, and there is where linux really shines. I only have one monitor, with X forwarding, I don't need another. Under Linux, each machine can be specialized to figure things out without disrupting other services. I've got one computer that sings and dances, I don't need another. I've got one computer with KDE on it, so all of my computers have KDE. There is no way Windows can replace the funtionality free sofware has given me.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Though I cannot say anything about the boot loader problem (seems very strange, never saw it), I remember the one time I paid for a box set in order to support RedHat. I had a problem setting up a particular printer that was supported. Since I had paid for it, I figured I would use that support that comes with the box. The immediate response was that they didn't field questions regarding the printing system. This was back in the 5.2 days, but it left a really bad taste in my mouth. They likely have changed this since then, but at the time I had to wonder what part of things *did* they support? I eventually tweaked a ghostscript driver to get it to work based on some web searches and lucky hunches, but I never again paid for RedHat. Then I stopped using RedHat and now use Gentoo.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
That should be "your's".
jeez! wutz up with all the links to this crappy site?
first we get two stories by that bimbo Eugenia (or Vulvenia, or wetf her name is), and now this?
why don't you just link to msn.com?
Enlightenment..there is no config files for it. I want to see a choice between metacity and enlightenment.
At $50 an hour, with broken crap on Saturday morning, you consider this a good thing? That's the kind of thing I don't wish on my enemies. For them, I dial hours of phone sex. Microsoft might stay on the line at $50 an hour too, but that and broken email servers is just too much to bear. I'm sorry.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
according to the package list, windowmaker is included in the distribution.
That's all well and good, but according to one of the articles that the story linked to, the menus included with Red Hat Linux 8's Window Maker package are completely broken:
Will I retire or break 10K?
Maybe it's because they're actually posting worthwhile articles and censoring out trolls like you.
I don't know if you have this, but if you have Hyperthreading enabled in BIOS, disable it.
This was interesting timing... I'm trying to get an 8.0 box up on our network (issues with the autosensing switch), and it just wouldn't come up on the network.
/etc/hosts.
So, imagine my surprise when I saw this box pop up:
Could not look up internet address for mycomp.
This will prevent GNOME from operating correctly.
It may be possible to correct the problem by adding
mycomp to the file
(Log in Anyway) (Try Again)
So, they're aware of it. But why does it act this way? Wouldn't that effectively penalize anyone not on an active network? (i.e. dialup, etc)
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Regardless of crippled this and not included that, I was damn impressed with the driver support. I got tired of my Windows 2000 installation on a Compaq Deskpro and installed 8.0
There were some suprising results and not so surprising results. The most surprising was that my Firewire PCI controller and Iomega Predator Firewire CD-R/W drive was supported. The not so surprising result was that my USB Alcatel DSL modem was not supported out of the box.
Overall, I am impressed. Since my first RedHat installation was 5.2, 8.0 is eons ahead of my original RedHat experience.
I just put RH8.0 on my Vaio GR series laptop. Custom install (basically I needed the Gnome desktop, various utils, named, httpd and mysql). Install finished, rebooted and... nothing. Kernel panic as kudzu searched for new hardware. At this point I'm guessing most newbies would give up. It wasn't a big hurdle if you realise you can switch to interactive mode and stop kudzu loading, but still.
The sound daemon in Gnome also locks up pretty often, so badly that you can't even remove the kernel modules - a reboot is the only fix - so I can't use the sound.
The display driver loaded for the Radion mobility card has no 3D acceleration, so the fix is to manually edit XF86config and modules.conf to get the unsupported 3D working (which does work pretty well, BTW!). Obviously the modem isn't going to work, but I don't need it anyway so that's not a big deal. Firewire cannot be used (I suspect this is what locks up Kudzu).
I still use it as a handy web development platform though - Mozilla + apache + PHP + Perl + MySQL are the web developers friends! If only Macromedia or Adobe would port their graphic apps to Linux I wouldn't need Windows...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
That's really all there is to it :-) Some of the damage can be undone, but it seams a lot of effort to bring in dozens of small things that made KDE look so high-class compared to gnome. You can turn on icon scaling but the ones provided by RedHat will not not scale. Gone are the soft sounds when you do things with windows and menus. You don't even get konsole on the default taskbar and you have to hunt for it in an obscure menu! And no easy way to download mp3 plugins for various KDE media players.
:-)
The distribution is also buggy in other ways:
- If you have an NVIDIA card with a DVI cable to the flat panel monitor, you will get nothing but blue static when you run the installer. Since there is no way to run anaconda with VESA or good NVIDIA driver and text based installer is not complete, I ended up undusting my old CRT monitor to get through this stage.
- The provided kernel source is broken and you will not be able to build modules (such as NTFS or the working NVIDIA driver), unless you include rhconfig.h into modsetver.h. You also need to run genksyms by hand because Makefile somehow will not get the compiler name right.
- Redhat can't decide on which encoding to use for a locale. Try to login with russian language if you can. Now half of the programs will come up with a bunch of blank squares where text should be and "man ls" is not a pretty site. That's because they switched to UTF8 encoding but most programs and man-pages-ru still use KOI8 encoding. Basically, logging in with russian language is unusable. Even with English login, man still displays garbage instead of dashes. The only cure is alias man='LANG= man'.
The sad thing is, you will probably swallow those things (if you can use English desktop anyway). Part of it is because of smooth fonts, up-to-date packages (it's no fun to download new versions of gcc etc over dialup) and a subdued look of Bluecurve which is pretty easy on the eyes. Mostly though, it's rpmfind.net, since most of the things just work with RedHat without having to install tons of support packages.
This are the same reasons as to boot into XP though. Any suggestions are welcome
Nope, that option does not appear in the bios. I guess we won't be seeing that from Intel until the 3.06 GHz P4 is out.
-ted
I heard RIAA was going to sue Usenet, because of all the binary MP3 postings. I'll bet the people at Usenet headquarters are all huddled under a table, trying to hide from the lawyers.
That only proofs that the KDE community is immature and a bunch of RedHat haters.
When the KDE change in RedHat was announced, dot.kde.org immediately posted an article and a huge flamewar emerged. A week later, when RedHat posted a document explaining their reasons, dot.kde.org didn't even mention it. And a while later, when somebody posted a review about the UI change, dot.kde.org didn't say anything either. No, they'd rather keep it secret from their community so that people can stay angry and throw out more flames.
RedHat did not only change KDE; they "crippled" GNOME too. It's icons are changed, it's default theme is changed, it's menus are changed, etc. Yet the GNOME community didn't even throw a small fireball, while the KDE community set the pool on fire.
"Requires registration for (security) updates. check"
No they don't require registration. You can freely download updates at will. You can also use apt to get the updates easily and quickly.
"Sends your installed packets list during online update. check"
Gee that wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that the need to know what packages are installed in order to do updates?
When Redhat attains a 90% market share, starts selling closed source software, starts forcing ISV's and OEM's to support ONLY their product, and then breaks every anti-trust law known to man, then I'll listen to your crap.
Until then do us all a favor and STFU.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
It might be political force that makes Red Hat makes such a decision, but I think Taiwanese people deserve more respect from slashdot, too. This article should be something more than "interesting".
"My computer has a xp 1600+ processor, yet gedit for example took 16 seconds to start (time gedit, then close the window as fast as possible)."
Well then technically gedit took 16 seconds for you to close down.
I just tried it, and on my K6 350, my total time was 2.5 seconds. So you got some serious hand-eye coordination issues.
I've had fears concerning new RH desktop environment, like the rest, but I can say that they *did* great job on this.
... in Internet menu)
:)
Some small portions that I would like to see in next RH 8.x release:
- abilitity to right click on menu item and change the same menu item, e.g. if I want galeon to be default Internet browser, I dont want to edit ~/.htmlview I want to change it thrue Control Center or directly from Menu
- set postfix as default MTA, Maildir support on
- add proftpd as choice for FTP daemon
- can someone tell me why my pcmcia modul is still loaded after any non-laptom install?
- in instalation process there are few unneeded steps, remove them
- installation process should have some game to play or bigger doc to read while instaling rpms (full installation is around 40minutes, avarage is around 20minutes)
- good collections of free Unicode ttf fonts
- existing gnome applications should dynamicaly pick up new ttf fonts placed in ~/.fonts (gnome-terminal)
- RH should work with OpenOffice to find solutions to incorporate ~/.fonts support to OpenOffice
- We need in next release only gnome2 apps, currently my old sheets are really ugly in Gnumeric
- RH need to make better manu organization (I cannot see licq, x-chat,
- xcdroast included in RH8.0 is still old bogus version; RH upgrade it and add gcombust
- Nautilus needs lan:// or smb:// feature (like konquerer)
- gcalc is removed from distribution, as fas as I can tell, current calculator sux
Something to add?
Except for the Ipod, can you please show me *one* single thing available for Apple that doesn't have and equal or greater equivalent on the PC? [And even the Ipod has been made to work in Linux/Windows] And as the parent suggested, if Apple has done such a great marketing job, explain why they fail to break 3%? Could it, perhaps, be their failure to interoperate, innovate, or even give people a reason to switch? I mean, seriously, the easy to use thing doesn't even hold water when you remember that 99% of people know how to use windows now, so to them, it *is* easy to use. *That* is what I meant by doing what apple did to themselves.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Is that they refuse to provide rpms for upgraded software. You can only install/uninstall the software that comes with the distribution. If I want the latest greatest version of evolution (for example), I have to install it (and resolve dependencies) outside of their package manager.
What I really want is an easy way to take a stock RedHat distribution and then upgrade packages as they are released, rather than waiting for the next version of their distribution to come out.
And it illustrated my point. RH never said that, they just said "Sorry, tough titties". Plus the Smartstart CD I had came with the server, so it was like version 80 something, before Linux was very popular.
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
You're going to be a bit embaressed with yourself.
There is indeed a "X-setup" tester. Similiar to the way Mandrake does it. Now I didn't bang on it to see if it was foolproof, but it is there. And yes I too have an older monitor.
This is the strangest thing... I've installed Red Hat 8.0, and it's been sitting there most of the day (I go futz with it for a few, then back to my desk). I've had 3 coworkers come by and comment on how cool the screen saver is (the standard is to cycle through all of them). Not sure how/if you could harness that (only idea: it gets them to sit down in front of it and play with it), but considering how much some emphasis people put on Eye candy, it bears mentioning.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Well I remote admin my RH 8.0 server, and use Webmin. RH also has some console tools (try setup).
As far as the missing config desktop options. Weren't people complaining about all these choices?
Well I guess one can't make everyone happy.
The KDE attitude seems to be that there is a war to win for the Linux desktop, while other efforts are more geared towards providing interoperable toolsets of which you can reuse as much or as little as you like. Fortunately, KDE code is open source, and it is entirely appropriate for RedHat and other developers to pick apart the KDE distribution and code and reuse whatever parts are useful. That's how open source works: if a project fails to meet the needs of its users, it gets cannibalized and its parts reused. KDE is probably due for a lot more cannibalization in the future.
For Beginners, redhat 8.0 or mandrake 9.0 is a very good distro to start with. I have been using linux for over 4 years now. I started off with RH 5.2, then caldera 2.0, rh 6.1, mandrake 8.1, 8.2, rh 7.3, deb 2.2 potato and have finally settled to debian 3.0. When I had started out, I would so wish that these distros would be consistent, so everytime I changed distro, there was a big learning curve ahead of me.( I did not have any unix background untill I went to my university where we used solaris). RH 8.0 has done nice job of making the windows managers consistent. So when people make that big transition from windows to linux, they dont have to freak out due the different varieties(which is not a bad thing but its just people, they demand simplicity in life). Slow at first, then once they get feel of what linux is all about, ie power, freedom and cost, then they can move on to distros like GNU/Linux/Debian or *BSDs or even GNU/HURD,( this applies only if they are more interested in experimentation of course.) I've known people who're still using RH 5.1 afraid of making the transition to other distros.
Kudos to RH team for all the wonderful job they've done on 8.0 release
Red Hat has been pushing their Red Hat Network as a conduit to provide upgrades and fixes to their distributions through an easy to use utility. You can access your system profile on the web - anywhere in the world and schedule installations and upgrades to any of the computers that are subscribed to the Red Hat Network.
Red Hat Network was developed with the philosophy in mind to manage a large installation of Red Hat Linux based machines. You can group your machines so that one group gets the KDE packages and the other group gets the Gnome packages. If you have 500 Linux boxes at your site, the Red Hat Network is really a useful tool for network administrators. It is quite a shame that their up2date tool is still "basic" compared to the advanced interface that the web-based front-end to the Red Hat Network provides. If it were more advanced, I would think that more people would be exposed to the many options that are provided by the Red Hat Network.
All editions includes one free subscription to the Red Hat Network, while the packaged editions include timed subscriptions to their basic and enterprise subscription packages. For home use, it's a good method of keeping "up2date" with the latest security fixes and feature upgrades. It would also be nice if Red Hat took the plunge and allowed everyone (including the free edition ISOs) to get their top-notch enterprise subscription for a limited time (perhaps 2 weeks). It's really hard to conceive the features by simply reading a feature list.
Be mindful - often, Red Hat releases packages that are not considered the latest and greatest only by version number of the package. Red Hat incorporates their own internal team of software engineers to patch the source and taylor the package to their distribution. Thus, sometimes, you may be "up2date" as far as the Red Hat Network is concerned, but behind the times as far as the latest and greatest vanilla source release from the original authors/contributors. The packages released by Red Hat are verified and supported (via their technical support and bugzilla) for use with their distribution.
Ayup
Um, I think you meant tweaked. A twink is a young, gay male. I doubt anything in Linux has been "twinked".
just a quick question-
what if you don't use a module for your cdrom drive, then what?
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
Why don't you KDE cunts get over the fact that your desktop is crap in the first place and install Gnome. Hopefully Redhat 9 will see KDE so bloody crippled it needs its own parking space.
Well I have been running RedHat (null) for quite some time and then grabbed a copy from the campus servers (about 10 min a cd =). Anyway, everything works great. One thing I would suggest everyone do is get Mozilla-xft!!! It is unbelieveably beautiful. URL: ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/experime ntal/xft/
.PST folder file. All the methods shown on the web don't really work since my folder file is roughly 370 megs (yes it all text e-mail) so I can't use Evolution as my primary e-mail/calender app. Other problem is that my Microsoft Natural Keyboard pro "internet" and "media" keys don't work regardless of how much I play with Lineak however xev can see the keys being pressed. I can't get my Matrox G400 max to use my second monitor for some odd reason. I'll look into it though. Last issue is my Logitech Clicksmart 310 USB digital cam / webcam doesn't have any drivers written for it. Any help in that area would be appreciated. My APC UPS doesn't seem to like the RPMS for Powerchute so I don't have that running yet.
VMWare is having some problems under RedHat 8. With a WinXP guest, on reboots and power downs, disk shrinkings the VMWare windows returns: (VMX) AIO:NOT_IMPLEMENTED F(831):654. Some have suggested that is could be a problem with the fact there is a new glibc, but I don't know. Any ideas?
I installed my TV Tuner card and it works great, Crossover Office and Plugin work brilliantly. I have Quicktime, AIM, Office2k, Quicken all installed with Crossover. My PHP-Nuke website is up and running as fast as ever. I built the NTFS modules and can seamlessly read my NTFS disks. SAMBA is sharing hard drives and a printer for the entire network. I installed all the fonts from windows into ~/.fonts. OOPadmin loaded them perfectly for use in OO.o. SHockwave, flash and java work great. I also installed the XMMS-MP3 plugin, Adobe Acrobat Reader, APT-GET RPM, SynAPTic, OGLE and XINE.
My complaints are the VMWARE problem and also the problem of trying to import my entire Outlook
RedHat needs to work on their menu system since I can never find the right config app on the first try. It takes a bit getting used to it. I also wish there was a quick tool I could use to duplicate desktop setups from one default profile over to every other use on the system.
System specs: Dual Pentium3 500 w/ 512 megs ram, Ultra2 Wide SCSI 10k RPM cheetah drives (total disk space 200+ GB).
it uses its own audio output
artsd is superior by far than the enlightenment sound daemon. gnome considered using it, but then dropped the idea. gstreamer is not yet finished, but arts support is already available.
Gnome and other applications that were formerly listed in its menus seem to have disappeared
Run kappfinder and it will add any applications in it's database for you. Alternative: run "ln -s /opt/gnome2/share/applications/ .kde/share/applnk/GNOME" or the equivalent. Gnome does not add the KDE menues by default.
KDE's drag-and-drop does not interoperate fully with non-KDE apps
Where? Please give an example. Many gnome applications do not encode the URLS as specified in the Rfcs and this can lead to problems...
KDE flaunts many X11 conventions
Which? Give some examples. It works fine here. KDE-3.1b2 works seamlessly with the only gnome application I use (pybliographer) and all other X11 apps I know.
If you try to start up a KDE application under a non-KDE desktop, it starts up big, noisy background processes.
Gnome apps do the same on KDE. nautilus e.g. starts esd, gconfd-2, nautilus-throbber, bonobo-activation-server and medusa-idled. Also these KDE applications are started on demand, are shared by all KDE apps you use and they disappear automatically after you quit the last KDE program, unlike some of the gnome processes.
I think you should provide at least some examples before you accuse KDE of not playing fair with other programs. Are you just fudding?
Moritz
> it uses its own audio output
You mean artsd, as far as I know Gnome is planning on using the same sound daemon in the future
> Gnome and other applications that were formerly listed in its
> menus seem to have disappeared
You mean KDE as it is installed by RH, hardly KDE fault
> KDE's drag-and-drop does not interoperate fully with non-KDE apps
> KDE flaunts many X11 conventions
If I understood what you means by that, I could give you an answer.
> If you try to start up a KDE application under a non-KDE desktop,
> it starts up big, noisy background processes.
Same happen when you start a Gnome app in a non-Gnome Desktop or a Windows app in a non-Windows desktop, It's called overhead.
> Under Debian, installing KDE automatically made kdm the default
> on my machine.
Seems only logical, doesn't it? kdm -> KDE, gdm -> Gnome. And since it's debian that is doing that, not KDE's fault.
> it is entirely appropriate for RedHat and other developers to
> pick apart the KDE distribution
Finally something we can agree on.
In all, not a very insightful posting.
Johan Veenstra
I have a fairly comprehensive article detailing what's been changed, with possible motivations for doing so, my own impressions, screenshots, and bug reports.
Read it here
pantropik writes
It's unfortunate you are choosing to use your voice to introduce "Joe and Jane User" to dependency via non-free and patent encumbered software (MP3 playing instead of Ogg Vorbis and the non-free NVidia video card driver). I think it would be better if you pointed them to reasons why they should consider their software freedom (the practical idealism that gave rise to the GNU system and the GNU GPL on which Red Hat bases so much of their GNU/Linux system). Since you know so much about this system and compliant hardware, perhaps you could also help develop a list of hardware for which there are Free Software drivers so users could easily buy this hardware and retain their freedom to share and modify software.
Digital Citizen
Here is her lame shit bio:
Name: Eugenia Loli-Queru [AKA FAT PIG STUPID BITCH]
Title: Editor-in-Chief [Editor? HAHAHAHA. That's a laugh. Cant spell or speak and is not technical.]
Email: eugenia@osnews.com [fat.pig@goatse.cx]
Personal website: http://www.eugenia.co.uk/
Birthday: 24th May, 1973
Current residence: Foster City (San Francisco Bay Area), CA, USA
Short biography: I worked for 2 years at BeNews, serving the BeOS and its community, and before that I was contributing as a news editor for a well known Gaming news site for about 8 months and I also co- held a fan site (LandOfEden) in the early development days of Lionhead's Black'n'White. For more information about me, you can always check my homepage.
I am Greek and english is not my native language. We do OSNews for fun (however, OSNews takes most of my time every day), so if you have a problem with my spelling and grammar either a) do not come back (spare us and save your time too) b) send me a proofread version of the article in question.
Whining about something I can't radically improve overnight, is not an option.
PLEASE STOP REPOSTING OSNEWS PLEASE
Ok. I am really getting tired of Slashdot reposting the crap rag OSNEWS on here. Please, PLEASE stop "editors". I don't know which of you has a fetish for Eugenia Loli, but this is supposed to be a Nerds site, not a technically impaired idiot site. Please, I implore you, please, STOP RE-POSTING OSNews *Crap* here. Here stuff is devoid of technical cross examinations, rife with conjecture and poor spelling and grammar, and she does what has long been disallowed here, the censoring of Anonymous Cowards. It is bad enough Slashdot isn't critically edited or reviewed, but in the absence of recourse by a commenting public free from censorship and suppression, OSNews is a totalitarian one way street. Please consider that she is likely to be getting kickback to review and announce things, and with her one way system, she could very well be lying to suit the needs of her underwriters without having recourse.
Eugenia Loli needs to exposed. I will post 3 articles that show how fascist the Greeks can be, and that people like Eugenia perpetrate. Then I will cover My Big Fat GReek Wedding, with Fat being the operative word. Then some random Eugenia quotes. I hate you Eugenia, for being a fascist at OSNEWS. You are a pathetic waif who can not accept dissent, and you dictate to your small and withering community. I hope you get ovarian cancer.
Fat Eugenia Loli's Friends Ban all electronig games by mistake. Its people like Eugenia Loli that show that the formerly great state of Greece has erorded into a festering inbred, stupid hairy totalitarian fucks like herself. Now is the fatty greases sweltering out of her cellulite that makes it seem like Grease would be a more apropro name than Greece.
The Night Defender Fat Eugenia Loli Fat
Sweating and farting nervously on the verge of mental meltdown, ELQ reloads each of her precious OSNews pages, making sure all is well. Fifty Internet Explorer windows are open in Windows XP, it's gridning the hard drive to death. ELQ's cable modem and NIC activity LEDs are nearly solid from the raw frenzy of almost constant browser reloading. Eugenia's eyes twitch rapidly from window to window with Mercurial speed to make sure that any rogue comments do not escape her attention, always hitting her refresh buttons with pinpoint accuracy. No logical order for checking, purely random and impulse driven by raw Mediterranean temper, stopping for the occasional savage bite from a pork loin still affixed to the bone, Eugenia's eyes never leave the monitor.
"N-n-n-n NO! No TIME for Dance Dance Revolution, oh but it's been so long! I cannot allow the BASTARD flooders' comments to be seen. MY DOMAIN IS SACRED!"
Hair is frizzled and days unwashed, asscrack just barely half wiped in a frenzy to return to her monitor, having taken a large shit earlier. No time to flush! Her armpits are over-ridden with pubic hair, her fat flaps reek of B.O. and yeast from days of neglect and hour upon hour of sweating. Relentless sweating.
"Cannot to be keeps up this pace! I may be need to go to hospital for exhaustions" she pants in desperation, wiping the sweat from a matted hair lock with her week-old t-shirt offering.
The hour of judgement approaches! Comment number 45 in thread 374 is clearly of anti-Greek sentiment! It reads "Eugenia continues to post yet another story that's simply ripped off from other websites. How much longer can this continue? It's my opinion that she has poor editorial skills. I think they should be revoked."
"YOU BASTARD FUCK!", Eugenia erupts in raw hatred, simultaneously ripping a 120 decibel-at-1-meter fart into the back of her chair. "Nobody is to be attack my site!" Eugenia blasts away at 10 words per minute in a barely-coherant broken English. She's on a mission. After several hours, the words on the screen are completely shattered and in disarray, they make no sense. Eugenia is impressed with her English progress and submits her lousy retort. Relaxing only for several seconds to savor the rush, she continues her patrol, sleepless into the night.
Greeks ban electronic games by mistake
Beware Greeks writing laws
By Adamson Rust: Sunday 01 September 2002, 17:40
ONE OF THE SO-CALLED CRADLES of European civilisation appears to have got its Aristotles all in a twist over computer gaming. And mobile phones, for that matter.
The Greek government appears to have lost its marbles.
The government wanted to prevent its people from wasting their money by using electronic slot machines but the democratically appointed government has banned all computer games everywhere by mistake.
And now the cops are raiding Internet cafes to enforce the said SNAFU.
The law, according to our Greek correspondents, prohibits any kind of game that is played on any kind of electronic equipment.
And it appears to have been drafted so loosely that that includes mobile phones.
Theoretically, the cops could bust into people's homes but so far apparently they have arrested Internet cafe owners and customers who were fighting a few rounds of Q3 CTF.
Next thing, the cops will be creeping up on people using their mobile phones just to make sure they're not playing a quick game rather than using them for their real purpose.
Here are some details of the cock up in Greek.
And there's more details about this at the Greek Net Cafe organisation.
Give us a glass of hemlock, Socrates!
Greek govt bans all computer games
By Thomas C Greene in Washington
Posted: 03/09/2002 at 16:45 GMT
The government of Greece is making heroic efforts to humiliate the nation in front of the entire world, by banning all electronic games. That's right; something as innocent as playing computer chess on your laptop in a hotel lobby is now a crime with penalties of up to three months in stir and a fine of 10,000 euros.
The purpose behind this charming legislation is to crack down on Internet gambling (which already was illegal) -- or, rather, to enable legislators to enact their little public dance of righteous aversion to Internet gambling.
Improved enforcement of existing law is all that was needed, but there's a problem. Unfortunately, the Greek government is "incapable of distinguishing innocuous video games from illegal gambling machines," according to an older article from the English-language Kathimerini newspaper, written while the bill was under consideration.
Now it's official. The legislature has concluded that all electronic games have got to go because the bureaucrats they're maintaining on the public payroll aren't swift enough to figure out the difference between video poker and TuXkart. Perhaps enforcing literacy requirements and sobriety regulations for government workers would have been a more productive approach, but it's too late for that now.
Greek ban on gaming threatens Internet cafes
By John Lettice Posted: 04/07/2002 at 12:49 GMT
A Register reader in Greece emails us claiming that the Greek government has effectively outlawed Internet cafes by "all LAN and Internet games and any kind of game that is supported by electrical, electronic or software means." If anybody so much as has something looking like a game on the screen, he tells us, the cafe manager is liable for arrest.
All of this makes some kind of perverted sense. Computers in Internet cafes are gaming machines, sort of. Or at least they have that potential, and Greece has already shown signs of considering them as such. More recently, Greece banned all amusement and gambling machines, including the likes of Pac Man.
You pay for computers in Internet cafes, you can play games on them, so yes, there you go. And a little further research leads us to believe that Greece's position is maybe not so wildly eccentric as one might initially think. Here in the UK one does have to pay duty on gaming and amusement machines in public places. You can get a little more information about the position by tearing through this section of the 1995 Finance Act, but frankly we do not recommend it.
It would however seem logical to us for Internet cafe machines playing games to be classed somewhere within the amusement machines category, and therefore liable for duty. If they're not, then pubs installing computers instead of amusement machines could be on to a good wrinkle. So, some form of cafe tax? OK, but what, then, are we going to do about all of those people in pubs who'll sometime soon be whipping out their 3G phones in order to play online games?
In Greece, obviously, they'll just arrest the nearest bar manager, while in London's West End we foresee a variation on traffic wardens slapping Internetting Tickets on careless mobile gamers...
FAT EUGENIA FAT FAT LARD FAT PORCINE CORPULENT CELLULITE RIDDEN FAT
'My Big Fat Greek Wedding' Rolls on
Wed Aug 14, 3:23 PM ET
LOS ANGELES (AP) - In a summer of huge movies that last just a few weeks in theaters and are lucky to break even, one little film won't quit.
The celebration has lasted all summer for "My Big Fat Fucking.Pig.Greek.Eugenia Wedding," a micro-budgeted romantic comedy with great word-of-mouth that has steadily climbed from 20th place on the box-office chart to No. 8 last weekend. The film, about a woman who defies the traditions of her loud Fucking.Pig.Greek.Eugenia family by marrying a man who isn't Fucking.Pig.Greek.Eugenia, cost only about $5 million to produce. It has collected nearly $45 million since it's April debut, and the end of the honeymoon is nowhere in sight. "I feel like I connected with absolute strangers across America. That's what I love more than anything," said Nia Vardalos, the star and writer, who adapted the film from her one-woman stage show. "The money is like, 'Yeah, yeah.'
La la oh la la la yum la laLa la oh la la la yum la laLa la oh la la la yum la laLa la oh la la la yum la laLa la oh la la la yum la laLa la oh la la la yum la laLa la oh la la la yum la laLa la oh la la la yum la laLa la oh la la la yum la la.
Eugenia, is that you? I hate you because of the way you censor. I hate you, and if I had to live in your kingdom in real life I would suicide attack you. Your death would be worthy ends to my means.
This is just another example of spineless crap moderation by Eugenia. I hate her fucking fascist fat fronds of celluite dripping down her bones and puddling up near here wrists which hinge har fat sausage fingers.
Mao Tse Tung, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Pinochet, Mussolini, Marshall Joseph Tito, Slobodan Milosevic, Idi Amin, Ho Chi Minh, Saddam Hussein, Muammar Qaddafi, Juan Peron, Ayatollah Khomeini, Ferdinand Marcos, General Suharto, Pol Pot, Fransisco Franco, and certainly the worst of the bunch, EUGENIA FAT PIG LOLI's editing/moderating [read: censoring] ALL AGREE on ONE THING:
So, you busy little plebian proletariat BITCH, get busy, you have some censoring to do! FUN!
Good job you little neo-commies BITCH, EUGENIA FAT. Don't want to hear the other side, shoot the fucker in the head as an ENEMY OF THE STATE [In this case anyone who seeks to improve the sad state of OSNEWS and its fucking lame conjecture.]
A few haikus to commemorate the sucktitude:
Crack Pipe
Crack smoke wafts though air
Dumb shit LOLI QUERU
Try to suck less, please
Humorless
Crack smoke wafts through air
Humorless LOLI QUERU
Why do you hate me?
The Proletariat
OSnews Commie
LOLI QUERU fears new idea!
Censor him quickly!
Get busy moderating this down, you little minions of the FAT GREASE LORD obedient prefects of the corrupt CUNT, LOLI! You are the vanguards of chunky brown vaginal discharges, and dissent is not allowed!
> That only proofs that the KDE community is immature and a bunch of RedHat haters.
Or that proves that the webmasters/editor of dot.kde.org is a RedHat hater (which I agree with, but that's my opinion), not the general KDE community as a whole.
It's on both sides. Some people in RedHat don't like KDE, and some people who work on/are associated with KDE don't like RedHat.
Type 'eject cdrom'.
On a more abstract level, first try 'man -k KEYWORD', or in this case 'man -k eject'. That leads to 'man eject' - view the man page for eject.
Thanks for the suggestion though. I'm just going to take the time to figure out the config files before I update again. No big deal, I just wish I was familiar with them before I was at the "OMG OMG OMG!! Reboot and drool at the new desktop!!!!11 WTF.." and then three hours of screwing around with it.
What really annoys me more then the gui is the exclusion of apache1.3x and perl 5.6!
Do you have any perl cgi scripts that access a mysql database? Your SOL. Redhat included the older gcc 2.9.5x compiler but not the older perl or apache. And no, perl is not fully source compatible with perl 5.6 like the perl mongers say it is.
I am learning perl programming from a college level book called "How to Program Perl" by Dietel and Dietel. Many cs majors have used their c and c++ books. I tested all the example programs and noticed alot of problems. Particularly with return statements, threading, mysql access, and cgi since mod-perl has not been fully ported to apache2 yet. The return statement problems seems to be caused by some changes in default scoping rules. I can easily changes these but I want to learn how to program and not learn how to deal with perl 5.8. Everything else can not be ported. I do not mind the newer versions of apache and perl being included. I would just like the older ones installed optionally as well as gcc. Apache 2.x is not ready for anything besides static webpages.
In other words avoid this release if your an internet developer.
On the other hand my gripe with suse is that their distro's have always been buggy and not as reliable as redhat or debian.
For my games which require low latency sound(sucks on w2k), and low ping times I will stick with redhat. I have noticed ping times cut in half in some circumstances and my scores are higher due to low latency for sound. I am already dead before I hear the rocket sometimes under w2k. For software development, I will stick with Windows2k.
http://saveie6.com/
tweaked, yes. thx.
Then you don't use a Red Hat kernel and are out on your own.
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
This is just like if you say how good free speech is and then bitch when someone says something you dont like.
Well I say too f'ing bad for the OSS/FS community. Now you know why closed source and restrictive (more than the GPL already is) licenses are better. If you want your product to look a certain way, you can keep it that way. KDE should add a clause to the GPL and LGPL licenses stating that you can "cripple" KDE. Obviously it would have to be stated more explicitly than that, but you should have the idea. Yes it will be incompatible with the GPL, but at least places like Red Hat won't be able to do what they want with it. Which is really what most people here and here at /. want anyway.
All right, I'm sure this should be obvious for me -- how do I go about setting that symlink to the Mozilla plugin directory up? I can't seem to make ln do what I want it to today...
Thanks in advance!
System Partition is your friend with those Compaqs.
Well 'XFree86 -configure' generates a XFree86.new config file at the command line, and places it in your root directory, as well as telling you how to test with it. That's a good place to start. If you have the inf file that came with your monitor you can pull the horizontal and vertical limits. Or simply look up in google groups or google to see if anyone out there has posted their XFree86 file. Unless you have something realy old, or very unusual you should be able to get it going.
"KDE has always included kappfinder, which searched the system for applications to add to the menu. If you not seeing them there now, then perhaps your distro is no longer running kappfinder during install. So go run it manually."
The problem I've seen under Mandrake is not that it doesn't work. But that the results aren't sticky. What that means is that you'll run it populating your menu. Log out, or reboot and the menus revert back to the previous state.
Linux has had the standard X cut and paste method since day one. It doesn't need another. The way X works is the way X works. If you don't like it you need to be choosy about the kind of application that your box will run.
To me *n*X doesn't need to emulate whatever Microsoft and Apple have decided cut and paste should be like. The X method works just fine with *every* application because it is enforced by the server, and is actually way more convenient most of the time. It's just a different way of working.
It's good for your brain to be flexible.
Log out, or reboot and the menus revert back to the previous state.
Never had that problem on any of my systems. Sounds like a Mandrake bug. Distros have bugs too...
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Between you, freshrpms, and the NVIDIA walkthrough, I am using a robust, do-everything I could want, workstation/server right now!
I dug through Google all day yesterday looking for the answer to this question, after screaming at a hdparam telling me that I couldn't enable DMA. Bless you, for you are a savior and a genius!
Wu-Tang Name: Half-Cut Skeleton Get your own Wu-Na
If you read the comments at dot.kde.org, then you see that a big part of the KDE community ARE RedHat haters.
Don't confuse kneejerk comments by people on dot.kde.org as a big part of the KDE community. Many other people are simply "dislikers" of RH, including myself. I don't like their distro. Neither do I like SuSE or Mandrake or the "pro"-kde distros.
Of course, I haven't used Redhat (much) since rh5.2, but everytime I've attempted to, I've fallen back on some other distro. I'm finally comfortable with my main box running LFS and my gateway running Debian.
They are not saying that they don't like the distro and prefer something else, they are actively flaming down RedHat! "Oh my god I hate those guys!", "they're a bunch of idiots", "redhat is actively trying to kill KDE by crippling it", etc.
The basic idea behind malls is that they are more convenient than cities.
Cities contain streets, which are dangerous and crowded and difficult to
park in. Malls, on the other hand, have parking lots, which are also
dangerous and crowded and difficult to park in, but -- here is the big
difference -- in mall parking lots, THERE ARE NO RULES. You're allowed to
do anything. You can drive as fast as you want in any direction you want.
I was once driving in a mall parking lot when my car was struck by a pickup
truck being driven backward by a squat man with a tattoo that said "Charlie"
on his forearm, who got out and explained to me, in great detail, why the
accident was my fault, his reasoning being that he was violent and muscular,
whereas I was neither. This kind of reasoning is legally valid in mall
parking lots.
-- Dave Barry, "Christmas Shopping: A Survivor's Guide"
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