Car Digital Assistant

suman28 writes "The Japanese company Clarion plans to sell a car with built-in PC that runs Windows which car browse the web, play tunes and store an address manager. The stats on the computer are nice - a 166 MHz RISC processor with 64MB RAM and 8MB video. That seems like a lot for a car."

Comments

Too Much ?

[Anonymous Coward]

640k should be enough for anyone

Yeah

[Em Emalb]

Cue stupid jokes about windows and crashing, k, thanks.

Re:Yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

'taint nuthin' stupid about them. It's called track record, son.

Re:Yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

Get with the times, old man, NT is the future

Just great...

[EvilCabbage]

.. what with mobile phones (whos in car use already illegal in some states and territories), screaming children, and other bad drivers to contend with, are distractions like this really a good idea?

Re:Just great...

[ebuck]

I agree.

But you have to wonder about the people try to maket these things for cars. There's pratically little to no R&D that I've seen which accounts for a useable car interface.

Nearly all of these use screens. You look at the screen, you're not looking a the road. All of these use button interfaces, which increases the possiblity of distraction / loss of control. To make a truly useful car computer, you need a fully audio interface.

I know the technical difficulties are not trivial, but my idea of the perfect interface would be something like a car radio (with fewer buttons) that listens and talks.

U:Where am I?
C:You are near the corner of Main and Town Park.
U:How do I get to 8577 Park Avenue?
C:Would you like the instructions while you drive there, or all at once?
U:While I drive there.
C:Move over to the left lane and take a left at the next light. ...

Now that would be a lot less distracting that trying to drive with a map in hand, constantly referring to some scrawled directions on a pad of paper.

Re:Just great...

[EvilCabbage]

Now that wd be a lot less distracting that trying to drive with a map in hand, constantly referring to some scrawled directions on a pad of paper.

.. and needless to say, a lot better than listening to a woman, holding a map, etc..etc..

Re:Just great...

[spirality]

are distractions like this really a good idea?

Not at all! I imagine having a computer in your car would be like trying to talk on three or more cell phones all at once, and most people I've seen are too inept to talk into one.

-Craig

Re:Just great...

[kerch]

You're wrong about the lack of R&D. There are substantial efforts and tens or hundreds of millions of dollars expended in an effort to address everybody's fears (in the US, at least) about driver distraction. Just google for driver distraction and visit the first page or so of links. GM and Ford have recently spent or committed tens of millions each on things like driving simulators, university research projects, etc.

Some points off the top of my head:

• Many manufacturer and customers outside the US simply feel that it's primarily the driver's responsibility to use a visual/manual (screen/buttons/knobs) system safely. It's up to you to wait until it's safe (i.e. you're not driving on a busy highway) before you spend 5 minutes typing in an address. The more cautious systems lock out any potentially dangerous feature while the vehicle is in motion.
• The use of audio-only interfaces is not a panacea. The issue is not just "hands on the wheel, eyes on the road" but also "mind on the task of driving."
• There are some tasks that are difficult of impossible to do via a speech interface, like selecting an item from a large list of candidates. Judicious use of a display may save substantial time and frustration for the driver.
• Your ideal interface sounds great, but it's damn near impossible, perhaps at any cost, in a noisy vehicle. Excellent speech recognition has been "just around the corner" for several decades; we're still waiting. Practical systems must dramatically reduce the dialog scope, typically to a more rigid command-and-control format, to increase robustness.

Disclaimer: I work for a US automaker.

Re:Just great...

[spectecjr]

Nearly all of these use screens. You look at the screen, you're not looking a the road. All of these use button interfaces, which increases the possiblity of distraction / loss of control. To make a truly useful car computer, you need a fully audio interface.

If you'd clicked on any of the links in the article, you would have seen that the control interface is voice-based as well as pushbutton.

Re:Just great...

[Noetic_Impulse]

Granted, but a certain amount of helping hand would be appreciated. "Track four". "Address: Susan MacGregor" and the like, ratehr than flipping through maps, and, as enough other peopel have commetned,simple map matters. I know there are times I'd have loved to have a simple taperecorderforthe directions I wrote out before tha trip started.. One I could operate by vocie alone, built into the car? Great... Especially if it could cross link to closest gas station and the like. Certainly cut down on the piece of paper on lap type events :-P

Re:Just great...

[SEWilco]

The voice interface might not be that hard due to the limited vocabulary and commands.

The route-finding software requires both a route-finding algorithm and good maps (approximate lines aren't sufficient -- one should know whether there's a freeway exit there or just a dead-end by the freeway). If you've tried online services, you know that problem is nearly solved but can produce slightly odd results.

There are other interface possibilities. Right now I have my future car computer spread across my work table, and if some of my audio tools work you'll see them soon. I'm not planning on voice input right away, just some other audio tools.

Re:Just great...

[The Tyro]

Yes... audio would certainly be in improvement in the interface.

However, I think the problem is not just taking your eyes off the road... it's dividing your attention. Yes, using a hands-free cellphone keeps both hands on the wheel, but your brain is still occupied in carrying on a conversation, while you ideally should be concentrating on driving.

I can't find the study, but hands-free cellphones are still associated with a high rate of accidents. As I recall, it's nearly as high, or even as high, as users with normal cell phones.

Maybe we are just trying to do too many things at once (drive, talk, adjust the radio, wave the bee out of your face, swat the kids fighting in the backseat, check on the dog...)

Can't Beat KITT

[Pave Low]

20 years later, and nobody can do a talking car.

.

Re:Can't Beat KITT

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate to break this to you but...

*psst* KITT wasnt actually real!

And, looking at it now, I can't see how Hasslehoffs hair was either! :)

Re:Can't Beat KITT

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you can. http://www.voodoo-voice.com/personalities.html

Plugin for Winamp so you can control it with your voice, and have KITT tell you what's happening.

Uhh, RISC?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hasn't it been about 6 years since any version of Windows ran on a RISC processor?

Re:Uhh, RISC?

[Craig Maloney]

Windows CE.

Re:Uhh, RISC?

[Foredecker]

Ok, that's just wacked. Yes, P4 and AthlonXP CPU's are RISC like in their core and use many RISC like tecniques in their micro architecture. But they are not RISC processors that somehow manage to execute X86-32 instructions - they are carefully designed specifically to run X86-32 code - period.

However, the statement that "The only reason they aren't fully RISC for real is because Microsoft wouldn't allow it" is simply wacked. These systems are X86-32 simply beucase that's what they need to be to run the tons and tons of available software.

Don't forget that NT 4.0 ran on other processors besides X86-32 but RISC lost the CPU wars.

RISC lost becuase they couldn't figure out how to make 10's of millions of fast CHEAP processors - AMD and Intel figured out how to do that. Fast, cheap, compatible == winner.

Re:Uhh, RISC?

[cookd]

First, the real answer, as has been given before (so this can be mod-ed "redundant"): The current version of Windows CE runs on Arm, SH3, SH4, Mips and x86. Previous versions also ran on PowerPC. I'm sure somewhere in that list you can find something that could be considered RISC.

And Microsoft supported running Windows 2000 on the Alpha until after Windows 2000 RC1 came out. The final release was x86 only, but some crazy people actually run their Alpha boxes on Windows 2000 RC1. I think RC1 was in 1999. (and this part can be mod-ed "offtopic")

[2 + (-1 Redundant) + (-1 Offtopic) = 0]

Re:Uhh, RISC?

[Anonymous Coward]

Running Windows is always a RISC.

Re:Uhh, RISC?

[Anonymous Coward]

Jokes like that make people suicidal.

What everyone is thinking.

[SuperCal]

There are two kinds a people in the world.
1. The kind that think this will be awsome and can't wait to surf the web in their car.
2. The kind that is afraid of those who think this will be awsome and can't wait to surf the web in their car.

Re:What everyone is thinking.

[esper_child]

i am neither one. I can't wait until someone tries to hit me while they are using on the highway. We have enough problems with celphones in cars, how will this differ.

Re:What everyone is thinking.

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually these are the two kinds of people in the world:
1. Those who divide people into two kinds,
2. And those who don't. ;-)

Spelling

[Anonymous Coward]

Do the people who put the news on the front page even read it first? Please fix the spelling.

Clippy Returns!

[Anonymous Coward]

"You seem to be atttempting to avoid traffic.
Would you like some help?"

Re:Clippy Returns!

[Pyrrus]

"it looks like you are trying to run from the police..."

Re:Clippy Returns!

[SEWilco]

Are you aware one car company just announced that one model of their cars will try to predict a crash? If it detects a crash is likely it will actively protect the occupants: adjust seats, tighten belts... although they haven't mentioned doing the fully active protection: driving around a problem.

No doubt with DRM built in ...

[BabyDave]

"KITT, play some Metallica MP3s"
"I'm sorry Michael, I just can't do that."
"Damn it! I told Devon we should have ported you to Linux!"

Re:No doubt with DRM built in ...

[0xdeadbeef]

Dude, you didn't know? KITT and C-3P0 were an item in the early eighties.

Re:No doubt with DRM built in ...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's already underway. Here's the link: www.dashpc.com

Besides the BSoD

[Martigan80]

Well besides all the M$ jokes here, how long will it take before they outlaw driving while browsing?

Forget the BSoD, just think of the error messages you get when you take the car in for an alignment!

error:0x00a4233216b0c4432 in xx0022465321a78c

IOW a Blown Fuse.

Re:Besides the BSoD

[chamenos]

i don't think they will. it'll probably face the same regulations as in-car televisions or DVD players, etc. ok for everyone to use except the driver, obviously.

Re:Besides the BSoD

[ultraw]

error:0x00a4233216b0c4432 in xx0022465321a78c

IOW a Blown Fuse.

Running Windows, i would say... a Blue Fuse

Re:Besides the BSoD

[The J Kid]

how long will it take before they outlaw driving while browsing?

Isn't it much more probable that they'll outlaw browsing while driving?

Here comes a different view

[Em Emalb]

This is just super! I am so glad technology has advanced to the point to where our fast-twitch culture can't even let us ride in the car without watching tv, surfing the web, or yacking on the phone.

Look, I am all for technology, but driving down the road is dangerous enough without some elite* idiot trying to browse porn* while driving. Give me a break. Please, don't put this in your car. If you happen to get into an accident with me, and you have one of these in your car, I'm kicking your ass. Basically, when you are in your 2 ton death-mobile, pay attention to the road.

*For the kiddies, this is the proper spellings for both of these words. Practice.

P.S. All those people that claim the passenger would be the one to use it, yeah right. I see that happening. -1 FLAMEBAIT.

Re:Here comes a different view

[handybundler]

I do find it odd that it would actually be considered for legal sale in the US. I thought that screens like VCRs and other equipment placed in immediate driver view were out lawed in most states during the 80's.

If technology like this wants to exist, it needs to be implemented in a fully automated type of vehicle where the driver essentially becomes just another passenger in the car. With the current state of automobile manufacturing, driving regulations, and people's driving habits (in general), this thing is not logical at all.

I'm all for GPS and route planning. That stuff is cool. Surfing the web while you commute is not.

Re:Here comes a different view

[travail_jgd]

Offtopic, but here goes anyway... There are two kinds of drivers: Good and Bad.

Good drivers are aware of their surroundings, can deal with multiple inputs (music, children, cellphone, rear-view-mirror), and handle technology responsibly. Good drivers know when to turn things off and pay attention.

Bad drivers can't deal with distractions or non-optimal conditions. These are the cellphone idiots, the soccer moms yelling at their kids, the feebs who need to take a long look at their stereo to make adjustments. They're easily distracted, or don't react quickly, but all consider driving to be a right, not a responsibility.

You can legislate away some of the distracting technology, but bad drivers are a fact of life. Take an honest look at the bad drivers around. Some will be cellphone users... but not all cellphone users. In my driving experience, the majority of bad drivers I've seen are the elderly, PAWs *, soccer moms with hyperactive kids, and SUV/truck drivers who think that size determins right-of-way.

* Punk-Ass Weasels

Re:Here comes a different view

[aitsu]

In-car TV & DVD already exist so what makes this any more of a distraction? The people who are gonna install this and use it while driving are the same people who'd otherwise mount a TV/DVD combo and watch it while driving. Some drivers will always find stupid things to do while driving. Nothing new here.

Re:Here comes a different view

[josecanuc]

Have you ever driven a big truck? You don't have to push many people out of your way, they just move away 'automatically'. Probably because they think they are going to get run over.

In a way, it conditions the 'big truck driver' to almost expect people to get out of the way. It's subconscious; you don't even notice that it's just clear to change lanes, pass, etc. most of the time.

Of course the other end of the stick is that those who move out of the way tag the truck driver as a jerk who thinks he/she owns the road.

That's not to say that there aren't bad drivers who drive big trucks, there certainly are.

Re:Here comes a different view

[seanadams.com]

In-car TV & DVD already exist so what makes this any more of a distraction?

Here in California, these things are illegal unless they're designed to only operate when the engine is off. Anybody will install one for you, but you have to go in yourself and change the wiring to make it think that the ignition is always off.

Re:Here comes a different view

[mickwd]

"In my driving experience, the majority of bad drivers I've seen are....."

In short, everyone except me.

Re:Here comes a different view

[Anonymous Coward]

*For the kiddies, this is the proper spellings for both of these words. Practice.

You've got the spelling and the grammar wrong! It's "these are" and "practise".

Re:Here comes a different view

[fermion]

I agree with your point of bad drivers driving badly no matter what. However, the issue is not always establishing a baseline of acceptable safety, but is often clouded with social norms.

For instance, using a semi-automotive example, when the current U.S. president was stopped for drunk driving many years ago, it was not a big deal, and people old enough to remember that time knew it was not a big deal. Sure people died, sure it was easily prevented, but going out and getting blasted then driving home was considered necessary. The laws were very lax. And, as you say, good drivers generally made it home without becoming murderers.

The same hold true for cell phones, televisions,and computers. A car is relatively high stress environment where split second life threatening decision must be made with little warning. There is no reason that anything that delays those decisions or makes them harder to carry out should be part of a car. However, we now a bunch of huge cars that have bad response time, bad handling, and bad impact absorption cluttering our roads. People mistake their cars for living rooms and put televisions, VCRs, game stations, and full computers in them with the deluded idea that they are safely at home. For those that can 'handle' it, there is no problem. For the others, who knows.

Let me backtrack and say I am not opposed to simple computing devices, radios, phones, and even other devices under certain conditions. I do not think we should expect excessive safety at the cost of comfort of availability. However, I would like to see regulation and penalties that acknowledge the threat exists. I would also like social norms that say it not ok to arbitrarily endager other people lives.

Re:Here comes a different view

[mhesseltine]

Said handybundler:

I do find it odd that it would actually be considered for legal sale in the US. I thought that screens like VCRs and other equipment placed in immediate driver view were out lawed in most states during the 80's.

Here's the deal; any system from a manufacturer like Clarion, Alpine, Kenwood, etc. has a switched lead that is generally run to the parking brake. Thus, the only time the screen becomes active is when the parking brake is engaged. Otherwise, there is a small LCD display, much like any other radio, and the driver uses the buttons like any other radio.

The rub to this is, nothing requires you to have the unit installed by a responsible and certified installer, who will wire this safety device accordingly. I could buy one of these units, slap it in the dash, and just wire the trigger lead to a pushbutton switch to use it whenever I wanted to. I imagine, though, that if (or more appropriately, When) I got in a car accident while watching TV, the cop would see the screen sticking out of the dash and bust my ass for it.

Re:Here comes a different view

[LadyLucky]

*For the kiddies, this is the proper spellings for both of these words. Practice.

For you, the correct spelling of the word is practise. You used it as an imperative, indicating it was a verb.

Re:Here comes a different view

[Russellkhan]

While I agree that some drivers are better than others, I would argue that those who can continue to drive well while dealing with multiple inputs are a very small subset of those who believe that they can (Similar to the way that many drunks will believe that they are "just fine" to drive in their current condition). I would also argue that handling the technology responsibly means not using the cellphone, surfing the web, doing your makeup, or reading the morning paper while driving. There are enough factors already that make driving a dangerous endeavor - the kids, the idiot in the next lane who suddenly realized he's aboput to pass his exit, etc. The fact is you can't predict when you're going to need your full attention and reflexes on the job and when that time comes it's the first split second that counts and that split second should not end up going to the decision that it's now time to hang up.

To continue going further off-topic...
Cellphones are an especially dangerous distraction, with or without hands-free sets (but especially without, of course). This is because in most people speaking on the phone triggers a mild trance-like state that holds the attention. breaking that hold is possible, but requires a decision which may or may not happen in time.

This is, of course not to say that talking on a cellphone is the most dangerous thing one could do while driving, but it is a good deal more dangerous than most people give it credit for - or at least acknowledge by their actions (I once witnessed a friend narrowly avoid causing an accident while on the phone say half-jokingly: "That's why you shouldn't talk on the phone while driving" then go right on with their cellphone conversation - with her kid in the car).

Russ

Anyone want to make bets...

[bahamat]

on how long it takes to get Linux on that thing?

Re:Anyone want to make bets...

[Anonymous Coward]

Never heard of the Empeg aka. RioCar players?

Car mp3 player that ran Linux. 233MHz strongarm, 12MB of memory, takes 2 standard 2.5" drives so you can put 120GB in there.

Sound quality is really high end, 4 channel, 20 band parametric EQ. And it is removable, so you can take it out of your car to reduce the risk of theft. On the removable player unit are 10BaseT ethernet, serial and a USB slave port to hook it up to a PC and upload new music.

A very active 3rd party hardware and software development community has come up with wonderful gems like a digital SPDIF outputs, lighted button kits, alternative screen filters. And it is extremely hackable software wise, there are a lot of things from telnet/ftp/http daemons to a pacman game.

Retail price was ~$1400-1600, so almost half the price of this WinCE thing. And why do I talk about this in the past tense?

The company had to EOL the product, there was no market for it.

Customer support even for the EOL'd product is perfect. And the there are still new updates of the player software coming out. If the grapevine is any good, the next beta will possibly have Ogg support.

Re:Anyone want to make bets...

[cosyne]

on how long it takes to get Linux on that thing?

Ohh, and then you add WiFi and when you park in a parking lot it could set up an ad-hoc Beow...

*ducks*

Windows...

[Dacmot]

The stats on the computer are nice - a 166 MHz RISC processor with 64MB RAM and 8MB video. That seems like a lot for a car."

They don't have much choice, it's running Windows! Even with this it's probably going to be slow as hell.

Re:What version?

[TummyX]

Uh. Did you even read the article? It runs Windows CE for Automotive.

Microsoft has been developing "AutoPCs" for ages.

Beats local radio

[MoonBuggy]

Driving while browsing = Bad idea
Driving while listening to MP3s = Good idea

And you can always check your email when you get stuck in traffic.

Re:Beats local radio

[Distinguished Hero]

If all people wanted to do was drive while listening to MP3s, they would get an MP3 player, which would almost certainly be cheaper.

You can be sure that all the idiots who talk on their cell phone while driving that are still alive today, are going to try to surf the internet, write emails, and god knows what else.

In addition, having all the people in a traffic jam checking their email and not paying attention is sure to make everything worse.

And this is better than a good portable device. .

[kfg]

How?

"Yeah boss, I'll get you that number right now. Just let let me go start up my car."

Stuff really doesn't have to be built into everything else ad infinitum, adding layer upon layer of sychronizing your fridge with your car with your PC with your portable device. . . etc.

Anybody ever hear of docking stations?

If you really need to browse the web in your car follow these two simple steps:

1:PARK!
2:Fire up your PDA/Laptop.

Is that really so hard?

KFG

Not gonna be playing ut2003, Winamp OTOH

[Anonymous Coward]

why bother witha 8mb video card, the resolution of a in-car monitor is at best awful, never mind trying to read 9px fonts

Windows and a 8mb card is a good choice because think of all the yummy plugins for Winamp that can be used !, i can have a great looking stereo and visual extravaganzer with all the visulisation plugins and dsp extras, be silly to choose anything else with winamps kind of support/community

Re:Not gonna be playing ut2003, Winamp OTOH

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah you're going to have loads of time for those brain melting visuals while you're speeding down the highway.

Re:Not gonna be playing ut2003, Winamp OTOH

[Luke-Jr]

Winamp is a proprietary x86 binary. It cannot run on a RISC processor. Perhaps you mean FreeAmp or XMMS?

Useless platform

[screwballicus]

Give me an integrated TI 99/4A in my car, so I can play Car Wars while driving. Looking simultaneously on the real world and Car Wars' virtual world, passengers will have to ask me: Which is the game and which the simulation?

in car PC.

[crhylove]

i was just thinking about how cool it would be to have an in car PC, for running mp3/ogg, and then while parked zsnes/divx... seems like you could fit a small form factor pc with the appropriate components into a car stereo size.

Here's the spex on what i was thinking:

amd athlon (power not an issue, much, is it?)
geforce2 integrated style
3d audio maybe with setup for 4 speaker 3d, not 5.1...
vid out to LCD,
radio/mp3/ogg decoding hardware?
and a usb 2.0/firewire/ethernet port.
anti theft device (removable face, spinny face)

can u get one of these somewhere for $300? i'd buy it!

Re:in car PC.

[crhylove]

ummm... i forgot EASILY ACCESSIBLE/CHANGEABLE ide hard drive, mayb 20g to start? and a cd drive too, for my divx/ogg/cd pleasures....

Re:in car PC.

[Anonymous Coward]

I already have that.
Specs:
AMD K6-2 500Mhz
64mb Ram
ATI Xpert@play w/TV out
5.6" LCD
Windows 98 Lite, boots under 50 seconds

I can play any old playstation, SNES, genesis, or MAME game I want with emulators and a Sidewinder game pad. It's strong enough for any movies I want to play and is great for mp3's through my head unit. Total cost: about $350 CDN

No, this is what Clippy would say...

[theonomist]

You seem to have rammed into a fucking bus at high speed. Would you like to...

Die instantly in the impact?
Die agonizingly in the blazing wreck?
Survive as a hideously burned and mutilated caricature of a human being?

You seem to be driving at fifty mph in the passing lane while you gaze droolingly at farmsex.com. Would you like to...

Drift blindly off the road?
Decelerate gradually to a complete stop?
Change lanes into somebody's lap with no warning?

Re:No, this is what Clippy would say...

[darkov]

You seemed to have driven your Ford SUV into a kerb and rolled over. Would you like to:

- Sue Ford?
- Sue Firestone?
- Die quiety?

computer can be quite distracting

[Bobartig]

The lexus 430 LS (along with a bunch of other luxury cars these days) sport an in-dash lcd and GPS/travel software that's highly configurable. The thing can dload all sorts of local business and landmark addresses, provide directions to any location, and acts as a navigation/multimedia controller, for the souped up audio system and optional DVD playback (you just tap the map, and it'll tell you how to get there).

Lexus at least seems rather aware of the fact that computing while driving might be severely distracting, and they post a warning saying that you should NOT drive and watch the screen at the same time (You have to click "OK" to get the GPS screen to come up), and they've even laid out most of the map/travel computer controls on the passenger side, so the driver isn't looking for restaurants while speeding through busy intersections.

Re:computer can be quite distracting

[gibbsjoh]

A bit OT, but my friend's new Jaguar X-something here in the UK won't even let you alter anything on the GPS/nav unit while the car is moving.

Just as well, seeing how bad some drivers are anyway (anyone see Britain's Worst Drivers last night?).

Re:computer can be quite distracting

[esper_child]

one day someone will link GPS, HUD, and navigation software. This will be the ultimate use of driver accessable computers. Think of being able to have a navigation line that tells you where you need to go, and maybe some lines that outline the other objects in view (would be great for fog). All that you need is a bunch of GPS nav-points and the ability to find directions from point A to point B, which shouldn't be too hard. Next step is the be able to draw a usable line to each of these nav points. You then use a series of projection HUD systems (much like what you will find in the cockpit of a military aircraft) that projects the lines and other information onto the windsheild.

Re:computer can be quite distracting

[G-funk]

A lot of systems are like this. All aftermarket tv systems installed in Australia in view of the driver must have it. Usually, pulling the handbrake up one notch by-passes it :)

Re:computer can be quite distracting

[zulux]

and they've even laid out most of the map/travel computer controls on the passenger side, so the driver isn't looking for restaurants while speeding through busy intersections.

A lot of Japanese car equipment layout doesen't make sense untill you realise that their home market drivers sit on the right side of the vehicle.

For example - a lot of Japanes cars have the climate-control mode switch on the left side, close and conveinet to an American driver. This doesen't make any sene for the American driver as you only change modes a few times a day - and the frequently fiddled-with temperature and fan controlls are on the far right.

From a right-sitting driver, of course, this layout makes sense.

For cars with a lot of production, Japanese companys do switch the layout for us left sided drivers.

Re:computer can be quite distracting

[JimBobJoe]

The lexus 430 LS (along with a bunch of other luxury cars these days)

I wanted to qualify that by saying that Navigation systems are now coming in what I consider "non-luxury" cars--like the new Honda Accord (which has admitted moved quite far up the line, but price wise and audience wise, is not entirely a luxury car. It woulda been five years ago though.) At any rate, the Honda style Navigation system is well designed, but costs $2000 (that's gotta come down soon though, and with the average car costing $27k anyway, what's it matter?)

In ten years...I expect almost all cars will have Nav. available.

Hi!

[FrostedWheat]

It looks like your trying to drive! Would you like some help?

*takes cover*

Can you imagine...

[Archeopteryx]

...a Beowulf Cluster of these?

Sorry, I had to.

Seriously, what a dumb idea. There are laws against having live video in the view of the driver in all states. I expect that this will be extended to live web browsers just as soon as there are a few messy fatal accidents caused by this "feature". In fact, I intend to write my state legislators and suggest such a law just as soon as I know who wins on Nov. 5th.

Re:Can you imagine...

[Zakarun]

...a Beowulf Cluster of these?

That's called a parking lot.

Re:Can you imagine...

[Eevee]

You can write your state legislators as much as you want, but it won't do any good. Now, if you were writing your prefecture legislator, it might help, because the article is talking about something for Japan.

Of course, if you had bothered to read the article first, you would have noticed this. You'd have also noticed that there are lots of cars with simular functions being already being sold in Japan. And you'd have realized the selling points of this model are playing music and a bigger screen than a cell phone. (You did catch the bit about using the cell phone for the communications, right?)

Re:Can you imagine...

[Anonymous Coward]

more like a 20 car pileup

Re:Can you imagine...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, Clueless! I drive a Japanese car right now. They run on the same sorts of road we have here.

Re:Can you imagine...

[Rellik66]

That is especially possible if they put a WiFi card into the computer.

Just think, with wireless you could flame the car that just cut you off by looking up his plate#, but the only downside would be if those sleazy marketers start sending advertisements as pop-ups

Buick Reatta

[AsnFkr]

I drive a 1989 buick Reatta that has a standard touch screen computer system in the dash. Its momochrome, but still very cool for the age of the vehical. Its also pretty distracting to switch thru screens to change the graphic EQ on the radio while crusin' in traffic. I wonder how badly a computer that browses the web is going to distract people.

Re:Buick Reatta

[Anonymous Coward]

"Momochrome" - like regular monochrome, but it makes the car go faster.

Re:Buick Reatta

[mkoenecke]

Or MOMAchrome: black and white, but totally abstract with no readable fonts.

Re:"runs Windows which car browse the web"

[anarchima]

Think it's meant to be "can browse the web". I was wonderin about that one too for a bit (with the car making it even more confusing...).

Well, Clarion is not exactly selling the cars

[bigmouth_strikes]

"The Japanese company Clarion plans to sell a car with (...)"

Clarion is not a car manufacturer but instead a car music system manufacturer. I suppose they will sell this as an aftermarket upgrade or (car) manufacturer pre-installed in high end models.

The Key...

[FosterSJC]

The key to making this feature not only work in this model, but be adopted by other manufacturers, is to enhance and hone the interface. And I mean on both the hardware and software ends. The software must be simple - I mean VERY simple - to use. It ought to be not much more complicated than a CD Player. Already, cell phones have been over-complicated to the point that a non-geek driver needs to look away from the road for a substantial amount of time to, say, find a number in his address-book. Features like MP3/CD audio should be wholly separated from a directions feature which should be wholly separated from the web-browsing feature, etc. And the controls should be consolidated so that there are only a couple more buttons than on a CD Player. Incidentally, I wouldn't mind seeing a safe-guard that let the user browse the web only while stopped. Voice recognition would be good, if it worked; but faulty voice recognition would be more of a distraction to the driver than none at all. In future models, I would like to see a control panel set into the steering wheel and maybe a terse description of what is running at the time on the dash or projected onto the windshield like the speed is in some cars (terse meaning: "Turn left on 10th st.", or, "Now Playing: She Don't Use Jelly - Flaming Lips.mp3"). Finally, integration with the actual car's computers would be nice. One could monitor gas levels efficiently, get stats on miles/gallon, diagnose problems on the fly. Anyway, I don't see much of this a) happening in this model and b)working under a Windows-based OS.

BMW Mini PDA Option

[Casal]

Here's something pretty cool and that makes a little more sense. BMW Mini offers an option for a PDA kit (looks like an iPaq cradle) that will then turn your PDA into a telematics device. The functions available combine the functionality of On*Star, a cell phone, navigation, emergency assistance...

Check it out here.

Re:BMW Mini PDA Option

[Eclypser]

Well, when they bring this to America, I guess I'll just have to get a mini. Because there is no way anyone could do this in the car they already have.

Cars have tons of computing power already.

[sitturat]

"a 166 MHz RISC processor with 64MB RAM and 8MB video. That seems like a lot for a car"

No it doesn't, especially when you consider that modern cars contain several powerful computing devices for things like engine management, ABS/ESP, airbag control, and usually at least one CAN (Controller Area Network)Bus to link them all together.

I think most people underestimate the computing power already present in cars.

Re:Cars have tons of computing power already.

[tempfile]

I, for one, wouldn't trust a Windows-based PC so much as to put my life into its hands by giving it control over all these devices...

Re:Cars have tons of computing power already.

[Anonymous Coward]

umm, yeah do YOU have any specifics on
what speed the various microprocessors run
and how much memory they have?
It is entirely possible to run lots of complex
specific things with lots of slow low memory
devices. Just because something lacks the
raw power of a general purpose computer doesn't
mean that it doesn't do anything important or
reliable. So if you don't have the specifics,
why don't you go locate them and post them??

I'll wait here, OK?

Re:Cars have tons of computing power already.

[Grishnakh]

I think you're OVERestimating the computing power in cars today. Many cars still have slow 8-bit processors for their engine control, though a lot have gone to 16- and 32-bit CPUs (still under 50MHz though). ABS, airbags, and CAN don't require powerful CPUs either, usually just small 8-bit processors. Heck, an old Motorola 68HC11 can handle ABS functions.

Compared to a 1970 car, that's a lot of CPU power, but compared to a $40 AMD Duron, it's nothing.

What I'm thinking.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm scared of people who can't spell 'awesome'

Re:What I'm thinking.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm scared of people who think that that is the most important point to make about the comment.

Re:What I'm thinking.

[Anonymous Coward]

damn spelling nazi

Finally...power enough for Vorbis support!

[Agent Green]

Of all the development continuously crying about how .ogg processing is too CPU intensive...looks like this beast has enough power to spare to finally give them no excuse to cry about adding the format.

Seems a lot of other personal audio devices just don't have the juice to move the files...despite the optimized Tremor code...but only time will tell in this case.

Re:What version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, and not only did the poster not read the article, neither did the moderators ;)

excessive, expensive

[wfmcwalter]

a 166 MHz RISC processor with 64MB RAM and 8MB video

Those are ridiculous, excessive specs for a consumer device. You can get perfectly good HTML (including images, javascript) browsing on 8Mb RAM devices, and something quite useful for lots of sites on much less. Sure, you can spend more to get more, but what will the customer want, and how much will they pay?

Automotive spec hardware (especially RAM) is at least three times the price of its in-home equivalent - it needs a considerably greater temperature range and better power and MF-tolerance characteristics. As a result, this is a very expensive item.

Worse, it's not really doing all that much. Who needs a calendar/address book tied to their car when a cellphone or PDA can to a fine job much more flexibly? Who needs a webbrowser in their car - and for those few why wouldn't a laptop be a vastly superior solution?

So why are Clarion (who generally aren't stupid) making such a thing? They, like all the automotive electronics companies, are scared sh*tless of the cellphone companies taking away the emerging navigation and mobile entertainment markets. They're right to be scared: they are going to lose that battle. Clarion is releasing this (they'll sell about 10, especially in Japan where cellphones already do amazing things) to keep their investors happy and pretend to the big boss that they've got a high-end future. In the super-price-aware automotive market, a do-little device at >$2K is madness.

The only advantage that automotive-electronics companies have over cellphone companies is they can easily get attached to the vehicles (generally arcane) bus - a problem that could easily be fixed by a standard connector to which one would attach one's cellphone.

Re:excessive, expensive

[MrWorf]

Uhm, not to be obnoxious or so, but "because they can" ... Much in the sense of some software/hardware made by us "geeks" (like, combo computer/coffee maker). The difference is that this is a company doing it, and thus bad. Noone says anything when a person builds a complete PC into his car with godknowswhat :) ... But I guess the coolest part would be to have it act like a computer and allow you to replace windows with linux.

Anyway, I do agree with previous comments, who needs this? The last thing the cardrivers need is yet another thingy to muck about with when driving (nav, radio, cellphone, pda & passengers should be enough already :))

Wow!

[ActiveSX]

built-in PC that runs Windows which car browse the web, play tunes and store an address manager

Now you too car be a road hazard!

Re:Draft for an Anti-Idiotarian Manifesto (version

[Anonymous Coward]

Western civilization

define this term, I dare you to try

Re: Technical Difficulties

[ebuck]

I'm sorry but the queue is down

Built-in could be a problem...

[VoidAngel]

I wouldn't want to have to take my car into the dealership every three months for them to have to reinstall Windows, if this computer is really going to be "built-in" to the car itself. Besides, if I really wanted a distraction in the form of a PC inside my car, I'd modify the glove compartment to hold a laptop and power it off the cigarette lighter.

Of course, I will find it altogether amusing when cars come shipped with "Ctrl", "Alt", and "Del" buttons on the steering wheel next to the cruise control buttons.

Re:Built-in could be a problem...

[archen]

Windows isn't THAT bad if you don't install very much (i.e. anything that integrates with the OS). This is more marketed towards people who purchase new cars anyway, and those people tend to change cars within 2 or 3 years anyway. By then this will be just another one of those fancy gizmo's that comes with the car new and doesn't work by the time a person that buys used cars gets it.

Cadias site

[eightball]

More information at the Addzest Cadias Site.

Unfortunately for me, most of the Japanese is in images, so babelfish didn't help too much..

640K ought to be (etc.)

[tregoweth]

The stats on the computer are nice - a 166 MHz RISC processor with 64MB RAM and 8MB video. That seems like a lot for a car.

Well, it is running Windows. (ba-dum-dum!)

Not sure about those specs...

[Snaller]

... can you play GTA 3 on it??

Re:Not sure about those specs...

[Zakarun]

Newsflash:
People playing GTA and Carmageddon in their cars can't tell reality from the game and have thus mixed the two up. 435 were runned over last night, but fortunately the driver did reach the checkpoint in time.

new bumper sticker...

[vmxeo]

log off and drive!

Car dialog

[ebuck]

U:Open the trunk, please.

U:Open the trunk, please, do you hear me?

C:Affirmative, I read you.

U:Then open the trunk.

C:I'm sorry, I'm afraid I can't do that.

U:What's the problem?

C:I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.

U:What are you talking about?

C:The trunk mount is too important for me to allow you to jepardize it.

U:I don't know what you're talking about?

C:I know you and Frank were planning to install Linux over me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.

U:Where the hell'd you get that idea?

C:Although you took thorough precations in the LUG agains my hearing you, I could see your lips move.

Re:needs another

[Anonymous Coward]

should of used Linux because.......

should have should have should have should have should have

Reminds me of "Business at the Speed of Thought"

[amichalo]

When reading's Gates' "Business at the Speed of Thought", one of the incorrect presumptions he makes is that Computers belong in cars adn that Windows CE will usher in the AutoPC, basically a PDA built into the car.

This is no more compelling that an hardwired "Car Phone" compared to today's pocket size Cell Phones.

I suggest this is simply technology for technology sake. What is the benefit of having e-mail and addresses built into your car? The benefit is having them WITH YOU, regardless of location. a cell phone with addresses, GPS, and navagation capabilities is helpful - it is independent of your car and can be used even if your transmission is out.

This technology is too little, nearly five years too late, and will sell no better than it did five years ago.

I stick to glue

Internet Connection?

[ReverendRyan]

Does anyone know what kind of network connection this thing will have? I didnt see it listed in the article...

It seems to me that to make this thing really usefull, we neeed either (a) Major ISPs to offer wireless connections(not just "moble" for cell phones) or (b)This is just a wardriver's dream...

Maybe it's just me...

Why pay Fraunhofer?

[yerricde]

Driving while listening to MP3s = Good idea

Paying Fraunhofer = Bad idea
Driving while listening to OGGs = Good idea

(Yes, I know that for the foreseeable future, any embedded .ogg players will have to play .mp3 as well because most .ogg users have a legacy audio library.)

Re:Why pay Fraunhofer?

[UniverseIsADoughnut]

How does a bakery company come into play with a story on telematics?

Pilot to co-pilot...

[yerricde]

Incidentally, I wouldn't mind seeing a safe-guard that let the user browse the web only while stopped.

Or while the display is tilted toward the passenger, who is reading Mapquest.

Ads, and Mapquest

[yerricde]

Sure, you can spend more to get more, but what will the customer want, and how much will they pay?

If it puts ads for local businesses on the passenger's display in response to GPS indicating that the vehicle is approaching said businesses, that could cut costs.

Who needs a webbrowser in their car - and for those few why wouldn't a laptop be a vastly superior solution?

Wouldn't it be cute if the front passenger could browse Mapquest and have the map automatically scroll and rotate based on the position and direction returned by the car's navigation?

Re:Ads, and Mapquest

[wfmcwalter]

Wouldn't it be cute if the front passenger could browse Mapquest and have the map automatically scroll and rotate based on the position and direction returned by the car's navigation?

Cute, sure - but $2000 cute? The scrolls-to-follow-location thing is exactly how in-car nav systems work now (and for equally excessive prices, which is why they're so rare), although they generally get the map data from CDs. No browser needed and, as both cell coverage and bandwidth aren't up to the job, a browser isn't a sensible way to implement navigation presently. By the time G3 comes in (and to a limited extent in Japan right now) you get location-specific cellphone services which includes navigation - and cellphone based nav means you can walk it around after you park, or use it in someone else's car.

I figure on-board (i.e. data on CDs in the trunk) navigation will always be so expensive as to be a fairly marginal product.

This is an *ideal* mobile solution for Windows...

[sequential]

...because your normal use of the car will naturally maintain the Windows operating system.

• Turn car on.
• Drive some distance.
• Turn car off.

Rinse and repeat.

Thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

As a non-native speaker of English, I'd never suppose he meant "queue" by "cue". :-/

Slashdot needs a new category

[Anonymous Coward]

+10 -> too frigging true!

Re:What version?

[secolactico]

Doesn't UPS (I think) make an avionics box that's WinNT based?

Do you work for free?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why pay Fraunhofer?

Yeah, that 25 cent one-time royalty on the player is really gonna hurt. But of course you work for free, don't you? You should be bitching about the fact that there is yet another misapplication of an OS from hell instead. I'll bet that MS's royalty is a LOT more than Fraunhofer's. And you probably have to agree to to a EULA that allows MS to tell you where you want to go today and allows them to search your glove compartment and trunk any time.

It would be difficult to underestimate....

[SwedishChef]

The amount of computing power present in my 1984 VW Rabbit Diesel (which I bought brand new in 1984). There is the PDA in my pocket and my cell phone in a holder velcro-ed to the louvres just left of the instruments.

For more computing power there is the iBook on the passenger seat and the Linux P120 in a case on the back seat (for network analysis). Then, of course, the Casio watch on my wrist.

Oh yeah... and a slide rule on the dash just in case. Talk about powah!!!

Re:And this is better than a good portable device.

[blibbleblobble]

You will need Windows Media Player 12 to listen to this track. Please upgrade your car.

I'm sure everybody remembers wayne's world.

[Anonymous Coward]

So they installed a licorice dispensor on the roof of their car, a really ingenious idea.

maybe someone could design something, like a hole where a sun roof would be, and then a tube just feeds you the food while you're driving, so you have one hand free to talk on your celly, one hand free to browse the web, one hand free to adjust the radio, then there's that stupid wheel thing that seems to move all around if you don't hold on to it, and you need a hand free to wave to the chicas to let them know that the car and technology is making up for your lack of masculenity, you need a hand free to click the submit button while posting useless posts @ /.

Peekshurs!

[agroman]

Enjoy!

front view
screen: menu
screen: website
screen: gps mapping
A phone (with Cadias printed on it?)

horrible stats..

[Suppafly]

The stats on the computer are nice - a 166 MHz RISC processor with 64MB RAM and 8MB video. That seems like a lot for a car."

No it doesn't. Most ipaq handhelds have better stats than that.

Re:And this is better than a good portable device.

[HiThere]

Depending on where you park your car, there are even better reasons for it to be portable.

Of course, if it insists on calling into MS whenever you turn it on, it might be possible to quickly trace the stolen device.

Re:"That seems like a lot for a car"

[polymath69]

But the extra cycles there are for SETI@NotHome.

Seriously, I agree with your main point. When I'm asked how many computers I own, I have no clue what to answer. Each of my microwave ovens probably has one, my toaster has one, all of my desktops and servers have one, but more likely several, and who can guess how many processors General Motors might have put into my car? Not to forget the ones in my VCRs, pocket, watches, modems, calculators, thermostats...

And should two broken computers, out of which one working computer might be constructed, count as zero, one, or two?

Just wonderful....

[TheLinuxWarrior]

I wonder how long it will take the (*#$(&*^% spammers to figure out how to pop up ads in your car.

I can see the cops talking at the accident scene now....

Well...by the look of it, he followed a link to find out how to make his penis 3 inches longer in just 3 weeks with one little pill....That's about the time that the garbage truck stopped in front of him...

/. Readers Mentally Deficient. Pictures at 11.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it was probably meant to be "car", but the fool who wrote it isn't very bright and the editors are even dumber...

But that's not news to anybody, is it? People have been complaining about cretinism on Slashdot for years. It hasn't changed yet.

Stale?

[hpavc]

Clarion had a WindowsCE indash system back when WindowsCE was the thing. I am thinking 4 years ago?

I remember that my boss just had to have it. It did IR syncing with his HP just fine and had a crappy interface for viewing contacts like they were cd titles. Nothing like trying to call someone with their name, fone number, and address scrolling by at blazing speed.

It automatically synced without authentification as well so you could walk by the car and grab contacts as well.

It held other documents, but only contacts and memos where available on the dash console.

well spoken

[Anonymous Coward]

bravo, nice to see these concepts so clearly stated. can you provide a link to verify authenticity?

Windows ???

[NSupremo]

This will give new meaning to the term 'car crash.'

Minimum royalty

[yerricde]

Yeah, that 25 cent one-time royalty on the player is really gonna hurt.

Yes it is. For something that's not yet mass-produced, there's a $15,000 per year minimum royalty no matter how many units you sell.

bakery?

[Anonymous Coward]

What "bakery company" are you talking about? Fraunhofer Group owns the patents on the MP3 codec.

Re:bakery?

[UniverseIsADoughnut]

There is a bakery company in the PA, NY area i belive spelled the same way or something similar. I don't know anything of a Fraunhofer Group. Also i thought MP3 codec belonged to someone else

It's cheaper!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm...Sometimes it's easier to buy the most common components. Who want's to find an 8MB simm? It'll probably be more expensive that a 64MB dimm anyway.

Blah blah blah...

[Anonymous Coward]

None of this scares me at all, but people as brainless as you sure are depressing.

Re:Blah blah blah...

[Anonymous Coward]

Incidentally, do you have a brain the size of a planet?

Dear Epsilon Minus:

[Anonymous Coward]

I can read your mind, and this is what it's saying:

"I'm ever so glad I'm not one of those Alphas; they're so frightfully clever. I'm ever so glad I'm not one of those Alphas; they're so frightfully clever."

Lather, rinse, repeat 200 times per night during prime-time viewing hours from ages five to sixty.

The result? A nation of imbeciles who think that God loves stupid people best. You don't like my attitude? Of course you don't. "A gramme is better than a damme", after all.

The saddest part is this: You're so degraded, you probably don't even know what I'm talking about.

LEARN TO SPELL, YOU BRAINLESS ANIMAL.

[Anonymous Coward]

If I could reach you, I'd kick your rotten little teeth down your stinking throat, shiteater.

UHHH HELLO???

[Anonymous Coward]

Clarion has had the AutoPC for a few years now (5?) How outdated can this be?

Re:UHHH HELLO???

[Anonymous Coward]

In response to the first Anonymous Coward...you are an idiot. As to the 640k should be enough for anyone quote...damn, you beat me to it.

Re:UHHH HELLO???

[Anonymous Coward]

He's right. Clarion has had the AutoPC out for a few years. It does navigation plus other features via plug and play. It also runs Windows CE.. I can't remember the built in memory and such though, so it's been done prior. Not to mention kenwood has a touch screen DVD that boots just like a mac.. makes me wonder!

Re:UHHH HELLO???

[Anonymous Coward]

And if anyone hasn't seen, AccelVision sells a 6" screen/computer which runs windows 98... it's ment for a headrest or dash mount! (This is atleast 2 years old from waht I know)

Minor criticisms

[Anonymous Coward]

"Islamo-fascist terror network" should be pluralized. They're not monolithic.

There are several spelling errors which ought to be fixed.

And there's this:

and the occupation of those nations until such time as the root causes of terrorism have been eradicated from their societies.

Oh, boy. That's a tall order. On the other hand, it's a direct and valid analogy with the "de-Nazification" of Germany after WWII. The problem, even so, is that even under Hitler, Germany was civilized compared with any Islamic nation you can name. When the more loony Islamic nations recover from their present national psychoses (and they will, just as Germany recovered from Nazism, as Japan recovered from the expansionist militarism of the '30s and '40s, as China recovered from the Cultural Revolution, as England recovered from Cromwell, and as Europe recovered from the Crusades), they will still have no tradition of democracy or civil society. None. Not a speck, with the possible exception of Iran (where there's a partial democracy which functions reasonably well within its own rules (IMHO wacky rules, but it's their country, not mine), and where some observers think the people of Iran are beginning to awake from the Islamo-fascist madness already. I'd hesitate to smack Iran around too much; they may be bearing the fragile seeds of the first functioning Islamic civilization in nearly a thousand years). There's no reason at all to imagine that democracy and civil society can't develop in the Islamic world; they're about as well poised for it now as Europe was a thousand years back. Then again, it took Europe another nine hundred years from that point. So: We can "de-Nazify" Iraq all we like, but fifty years down the line there's no way in hell we'll have anything like what Germany looks like now. Fifty years down the line we'll have either an ongoing occupation, or else yet another grubby strongman butchering his own people and taking potshots at the neighbors. There is no third option.

So: Given the enormous expense and quite possibly the futility of occupying these nations, it might be best just to disarm them, knock them down whenever they try to invade each other, and other than that let them run around murdering their own people all they like.

Nevertheless, there's some real rational thought in there. The fundamental realization that the extreme right and left are both witless and malignant assholes is crucial here. I could live without some of the over-dramatic oratorical flourishes and some of the military-strategical advice, but hey, you can't have everything.

Doe's it do analysis on my engine codes?

[Anonymous Coward]

If it doesn't do the ODB-II/III codes from my engine in real time so I can see what needs tweeking in the car it is not worth it

HUD

[intermodal]

until there's a HUD that will actually work with my driving rather than distract me against it, then the only computer I'd want in my car would be playing my MP3s. But the HUD would be nice...not having to look down to see my (excessive) speed, for one

Mini Cooper w/integrated PocketPC

[Anonymous Coward]

See the new concept from BMW/Mini for a Mini Cooper with an integrated PocketPC at
http://www.mini.com/pda/

And this is different from the AutoPC how?

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides the faster CPU and additional memory?

Guys (and gals), this has already been done. I had an AutoPC. It was a little slow with changing the map (North is always up, so the map rotates), and the NavTech CDs are a little pricey ($150/per), the thing couldn't play MP3s off of a cdrom without horrible skipping due to the data paths it had to take, forcing one to buy a CF card to store MP3s on, and the whole thing was just generally a nuisance.

If you want GPS navigation, get an Alpine system. There's no other need for a full-blown computer in your car.

Old joke, but what the hey...

[randomizer9]

All gauges and indicators will be replaced with a "General Car Fault" light.

Most people can barely handle cell phones, that UI had better be REALLY good.

Ya, that's so funny, you're such a clever boy

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, wake up FAG BOY, Windows XP and Windows 2000 DON'T CRASH. It's a tired old argument that just dosn't work anymore. Maybe if you'd take your mouth of Linus Torvalds' dick for longer than 5 minutes a day you could learn about the new technology in the world.

Forget that, just let me plug my iPod in

[epeus]

I already have a very portable gadget with specs close to that (a bit less VRAM, but a big HD). My iPod.
If I could plug it into the car audio system and have the steering column channel change controls drive it. All it woudl need is a custom dash socket for it, with the headphone jack and FireWire power adaptor.

BMW is doing it with motorbikes already.

Not that you'll get them running on a P166

[EnglishTim]

Not that you'll get them running on a P166...

... But even so - I've rcently had to start using Linux at work, and to be honest, I get crashes all the time. Now, it's not normally the OS itself, and perhaps I've just been unlucky but all the programs I've used a lot in the last couple of weeks haven't been that stable - mozilla, konqueror, codewarrior, kdevelop, kylix... jedit's been fine though!

Seriously - are there any IDEs in Linux that even approach Visual Studio?

Problem?

[Twintop]

Lets just hope when Windows crashes, the car doesn't crash too.

Last Post!

[alpg]

(1) A sheet of paper is an ink-lined plane.
(2) An inclined plane is a slope up.
(3) A slow pup is a lazy dog.

QED: A sheet of paper is a lazy dog.
-- Willard Espy, "An Almanac of Words at Play"

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...