AIM And ICQ to be Integrated

sam writes "According to this InfoWorld article the next version of America Online's Instant Messenger will allow users to communicate with ICQ users in a move that will bridge the gap between the company's two popular chat services. Maybe AOL finally woke up and realized people were using IM clients that have both in them." I still use only IRC for messaging, but this is gonna make things easier for a lot of users.

Comments

Doesn't this already work?

[jimmcq]

I thought this already worked... You can load up the AIM client and add the Number (not nickname) of an ICQ user as buddy.

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[ActiveSX]

This isn't about the client protocol, this is interaction between users on the server.

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[infiniti99]

Yes, which is a huge deal. Lots of people in the comments are posting about client-side workarounds, which don't even solve the problem. If you are logged into AIM and ICQ from one client, the networks are not bridged whatsoever. You've just got two logins, that's all. It's a nice trick, but there is a lot more to solving IM interoperability.

Now that the IETF working group for Jabber is on its way, I sincerely hope that AOL will consider using it for their server-to-server communication. They can still use OSCAR for client communication (just as they use a proprietary client mail protocol and not POP), but they need to use Jabber on the outside (as they use SMTP on the outside) to fully solve the "IM Interoperability Dilemma" (tm).

Of course, considering how long it is taking for them to link their own damn networks, I'd say we've got about 5 years to go :(

AOL holds most of the cards for IM interoperability. I still encourage everyone out there to start using Jabber and run Jabber servers, but AOL's users totally outnumber us. Even in this Slashdot forum today, most of you using some form of IM are using an AOL-controlled service. Please, guys, the faster we move to Jabber, the faster this war will be over. Stop using AIM, ICQ, MSN, or Yahoo, especially if you are on Linux (doesn't anyone think using MSN on Linux is just too ironic?). Or if you can't quit cold-turkey, use GAIM so that you can use Jabber alongside these other proprietary protocols. I still think it will take a move by AOL to fully solve this (as I said, they have most of the cards), but I think if the entire tech community embraced Jabber we would have a lot more influence. This move to link AIM and ICQ is a good first step, but there is more to be done.

So go forth and use Jabber. Find a friend to do it also. Even if you just have each other in your contact list and no one else, you are securing yourself a place in the future of open IM. I'm already AOL-free, as I quit AIM and ICQ earlier this year. Now my Jabber roster has over 100 contacts, after successful conversion of all of my friends and family. Who needs AOL? Not any of us!!

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[__aaahtg7394]

AIM and ICQ have been the same network since icq2k. It's just that they've been limiting the ability to speak between the two.

You could log in to AIM servers with an ICQ UID and join ChatNav (AIM chat rooms) before. dunno if you still can, don't care to test. You simply couldn't IM AIM users (you could still message ICQ users).

ICQ2K's protocol is just OSCAR with the ICQ bits stuffed in via new TLVs.

-josh, who helped with OSCAR RE and did the first (afaik) partial icq2k implementation (See libfaim or the aimster/madster client-side proxy)

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

After your inspiring speach about Jabber. You never really tell us exactly what it is, or provide a link for more info. A link wold be nice. We like links.

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[Eskarel]

Do you seriously believe that even if every single member of the tech community, however loosely you choose to define that, started using Jabber or some other sort of open protocol system to chat with, that it would amount to a portion of the total IM user base large enough for AOL or some other company to even notice? Instant Messaging software is probably one of the most broadly used software on the market. I'd say it's probably even more ingrained in the current market than Windows is because while most people have no real idea how to use any of the features of the OS, most people know how to use at least one messaging client. For that matter, most alternative clients(even gaim) are too complicated for the majority of their users, as is ICQ for that matter, but that's neither here nor there. Admitedly it would be nice to see better *nix implementations of the instant messaging software, there is nothing terribly wrong with the current instant messengers(well excluding ads in icq which you can remove and invasive license agreements for msn which are for the most part expected for a part of passport). Plus other than annoying AOL discs, which I haven't recieved in quite a while, and tacky advertising which is typical these days and is still less annoying than the MSN bug man. AOL doesn't really intrude itself into my life all that much and outside of general anti-corporatism I personally have nothing much against it.

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[tzanger]

Do you seriously believe that even if every single member of the tech community, however loosely you choose to define that, started using Jabber or some other sort of open protocol system to chat with, that it would amount to a portion of the total IM user base large enough for AOL or some other company to even notice?

Of course not, don't be absurd. What he's trying to do is start a domino effect. If you start using Jabber and you get your Aunt Tilly to use it because she needs to talk to you to help her get her printer printing those cute cross-stitch patterns, that's one person. The she realizes there's no ads and the client is small and simple to use, she will tell her friends at all about it one afternoon during tea. And one of Aunt Tilly's friend's nephews happens to know a bit about these computer things and you know, she thinks he uses Jabber too... The effect is slow as hell but once it reaches a critical mass (which it may never do) it will cascade just like ICQ did (and MSN, and Y! and all the others).

This will especially be accelerated if you tell Aunt Tilly that she can talk on Jabber, MSN and Y! with one client. That is a little counter-productive but once her friends start using the Jabber clients there is a diminished need for the transports which helped bring her online with Jabber in the first place.

So no, I don't think he meant that the tech community on its own would cause the revolution. It'll definately be a distributed effort.

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[carpe_noctem]

I would use jabber, but there is a total lack of a good client for either unix or windows. Most of the windows clients are either totally crippled, or suffer from a totally crappy user interface. As for linux/unix, I've yet to find a good jabber client there. I guess that gabber would be ok if it didn't have 600 gnome library dependencies. Anyone out there found a good client yet?

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[tzanger]

After your inspiring speach about Jabber. You never really tell us exactly what it is, or provide a link for more info. A link wold be nice. We like links.

I'll try to help. Here is Jabber's main page. The first thing you need to do is Grab a client My personal favourite is Psi, a crossplatform slim and slick client that I feel is better because I can opt to have incoming events as messages or chats (or just leave them as they came), opt to pop up the window, automatically show the message, or just flash in the tray (especially important when you type over 100WPM and someone messages you out of the blue), it's open source, I've created a few patches to help make the client better (IMO), and it's under active development. Psi also has a message/chat history (searchable) and supports multiple identities (online at the same time, in the same client) and Jabber itself features multiple instances of a particular Jabber User (home/work, etc.). Features coming up in Psi are groupchat (in 0.8.7, due out Very Soon Now), File Transfer (that works behind NAT, coming in 0.9), pluggable storage for history and prefs (SQL, etc.) and other leading-edge stuff for Jabber. Justin (the lead developer of Psi) seems to have a real knack for making a solid, stable client and pushing the envelope with the new Jabber feature drafts.

Oh yes, Psi also supports SSL (client--server) and there is a Jabber draft for SSL between servers, so your inane chatter is kept private with strong encryption. *cough*ICQ*cough*

Psi is a Qt app, but there are CLI clients, Perl module clients, GTK clients, Win32-only clients, Java clients, JScript clients... Hell there's even a Flash client. The protocol is completely open.

Perhaps one of the biggest assets to Jabber is that it is decentralized. There are many public servers, and you can set your own up (hell even Debian has packages for it!). [warning - the public servers link has a session-id, I don't know if it'll work for anyone else]

The biggest problem with Jabber is that it is still a little tricky for newbies to get in to -- there is no "download this, it registers you with one of the common servers" links (not that I'm aware of anyway), so you need someone to either set it up for you or point you off to a public server. A lot of the clients are crap (a common problem with OSS, I'm afraid). Sometimes the transports (gateways to other IM systems, like ICQ, AIM, Y!, etc.) don't work because the other systems find a common server and shut down access to their network from it, but if you run your own server or you are on a small server, you won't even blip on their radar.

I really like it. I used to be an ICQ-head (my UIN is just over 1-mil) but when they started throwing up ads and adding more and more crap to the client I bailed) and I couldn't find a decent Jabber client (one that didn't pop up messages and take focus, how F#%#^T#$'ing irritating!) for a while, but now I am a very happy Jabber user. Hell even my wife, mom and grandmother use it (seriously) -- it works great for computer-cautious people because of the simplicity.

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[infiniti99]

I guess I made the false assumption that everyone already knows what Jabber is, yet aren't using it. That was actually very stupid of me, considering what I was arguing :)

Jabber is an open IM system, which uses an XML-based protocol for interconnecting servers and clients. Your Jabber ID (or JID) is in the form "user@host", obviously following in the footsteps of other common internet protocols (most notably email, but also ftp, http, etc). Jabber also supports SSL in the core protocol.

Because the protocol is open, there are numerous server and client implementations, all designed to interoperate. Anyone can run a server, and there is no such thing as an "official client" (that would be as absurd as an official email client). The world of Jabber is much more friendly than that of closed IM, as the Jabber Software Foundation encourages developer participation.

Let the linking commence!

Jabber Software Foundation - The "JSF" handles all of the core protocol decision-making. There are members, council, and an enhancement proposal system. The website is also a nice hub for information, as there are links to guides, programming info, client software, server software, public server lists, etc. Start here.

Some nice clients:
Psi* - powerful and minimal cross-platform Jabber client (Windows/Mac/Unix), looking like Licq.
Gabber - a full featured GNOME Jabber client.
Exodus - a very featureful Windows client. Has a strange UI in my opinion, but lots of people like it.
Gaim - mentioned 100 times already in the comments area. This program is nice because it natively supports AIM (and other protocols), which can make your transition to Jabber easier.

Other areas of interest:
User guide - a good read for newbies.
jabberd - home of the popular open source jabber server.
Jabberd Admin guide - Read this if you want to run your own server.
Jogger - a Jabber-based blog.

*Note - I am the author of Psi. Please forgive the plug :)

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[Isomer]

After your inspiring speach about Jabber. You never really tell us exactly what it is, or provide a link for more info. A link wold be nice. We like links.

• Open Protocol with open specifications, XML everywhere :)
• Easily extended protocol.
• Server side everything, including contact lists.
• A multitude of clients, for windows, Linux, and other OS's
• Server side Transports so you can talk to people on other networks as if they were normal jabber members. This even includes ICQ's ability to send SMS's. Transports exist for at least ICQ,MSN,Yahoo,AIM,IRC,SMTP, I even wrote a transport to talk to my Wiki.
• A simple client protocol that can be easily implemented on simple devices (Cellphones etc), most of the hardwork is done on the servers.
• Conferencing, multiuser chat.
• Lotsa other stuff I don't use.

Some of the proposed extentions including such nifty things such as being able to have a client fill in forms. For example, you could connect to a Pizza delivery transport, it asks you some questions, such as where to deliver the pizza, what kind of pizza you want etc, then delivers the pizza to you. Jabber is a stable platform now. It's usable as an IM today, and many people do use it. what it does need is more people to start using it. For more information see:

• The Jabber Software Foundation
• Jabber Studio - A sourceforge like site for jabber projects.
• Jabber Inc - A company making money on working on Jabber solutions for other companies.
• Gabber - a (very nice IMHO) GTK client for Jabber.
• Psi - a Jabber client for the KDE people.

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[WWWWolf]

The biggest problem with Jabber is that it is still a little tricky for newbies to get in to -- there is no "download this, it registers you with one of the common servers" links (not that I'm aware of anyway),...

Oh, I really need to tell how I got started with Jabber. I just apt-got Gabber, started it up, and it very helpfully started a wizard that let me to set up an account at either jabber.com or jabber.org (probably also some other server). I was online in no time! =)

Gabber was one of the few programs I have recently used that even tried to be newbie-friendly.

Though, the transport setup was a bit tricky, but I understood it anyway. It should provide more help on why does it not work, like, "sorry, AOL is a big evil company that blocked jabber.com from connecting to ICQ and AIM, so you cannot use them here. Just be an Evangelist and tell your friends to use Jabber too." =)

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[Espectr0]

I want to use psi, but until it has file transfer, it's not usable for me. And for windows, i am sorry, but you cannot beat trillian.

I have never liked too much the jabber protocol. So, i dont have just to keep track of the msn server to be online, but i also have to keep track of the jabber server, since if it's down (and it is lots of the time), i cant use msn even if the msn server is working.

I know that having an intermediate server is an advantage too, but for the regular user it's a disadvantage

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[Thomas Charron]

Think email for IM. Any of the publically available servers can communicate with ANy of the other servers. The namespace includes the use of a domain. Becouse of the entire idea of a domain, a domain can frontend another external namespace, say, AIM. Since AIM has a single namespace, representing it within a single domain is simple. From there, all you need is the 'glue' to basically serve as a gobetween for AIM, MSN, etc, and Jabber.

Re:Doesn't this already work?

[infiniti99]

I know that having an intermediate server is an advantage too, but for the regular user it's a disadvantage

I think you're looking at this from the wrong perspective. Jabber is not about putting an extra server between you and some proprietary IM system. If that is all Jabber did, it would be pointless. Forget all you know about Jabber, and just start with this:

- It is a distributed and open IM system.

Good, now does that sound interesting? If not, then Jabber may not be for you. Now I will add:

- Jabber has the ability to connect to MSN.

Alright, so you can do this also. However, please remember that it is optional, and not the reason for Jabber's sole existence. Jabber was never intended to be a multi-IM solution. If you want to use MSN through Jabber, that is your thing. You can just as easily run two clients instead, one for MSN and one for Jabber, if you don't want to have a "middleman" to MSN. Or maybe someday Trillian will support Jabber, then you won't need multiple clients.

I want to use psi, but until it has file transfer, it's not usable for me. And for windows, i am sorry, but you cannot beat trillian.

File transfer is planned. Even so, lots of people seem to like it. Trillian is more featureful than Psi in many ways, but it is missing just one very important feature that Psi has: Jabber support :) But I'm not saying you need to use it. There are many other good Jabber clients to choose from too. Good luck.

iChat

[krokodil]

Does it mean that I can use iChat to chat
with ICQ firends? That would be cool!

About Time

[codemachine]

Considering they use the exact same protocol, I'm not sure what the holdup was. ICQ2000 onward was really just AIM protocol anyhow. I guess they need to make integration look hard so they have an excuse to not allow MSN and Yahoo! interoperability.

obligitory trillian link

[anotherone]

I feel that I should mention Trillian, which everyone should know about:

Trillian.cc

It lets you connect to and message users on both ICQ and AIM, as well as MSN and Yahoo. And you can connect to IRC with it, although I prefer to use mIRC for that.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[Dog and Pony]

Personally, I found CenterICQ to be one of the best multi-IM applications. :)

Re:obligitory trillian link

[Anonymous Coward]

Well if you get to post your favorite, I get to post mine.

I think everyone should know about Gaim, a UNIX instant messenging client supporting a wide variety of protocols.

All of the protocols Trillian supports:
ICQ, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, and IRC
plus:
Jabber, Zephyr, and (not that it's much use) Napster.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[ejaw5]

I find Gaim to my liking. Haven't tried the $25USD Trillian, but Gaim works like a charm. It even alerts me when mail comes into my Y! account. ..and it's free. The linux version is great...well the Win32 could use a little more work.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[reaper20]

Huh? I connect to IRC with Trillian all the time, even their free version connects to IRC.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[GlassUser]

The developers have their heads stuck up their asses. Took hours of my work and now they're charging for it. It's half my fault for not getting anything in writing though. But the application itself is still buggy as hell - no shortcut keys to anything, it uses its own custom skinning system which makes it slow as all hell, and it occasionally hangs, hogging cycles, until I kill it. Oh, and it keeps everything in text files in the program files directory, so forget about using it in anything approaching a secure system.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[Jace of Fuse!]

Haven't tried the $25USD Trillian.

No, Trillian is $Free. Trillian Pro costs $25.

There is a difference.

There are no restrictions to the regular Trillian, and only a few tiny bells and whistles in Trillian Pro. The reasons to buy Trillian Pro are almost totally about donating to the developement, and little else.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh pleeeeezzzz. Your name is what? Al Gore?

Re:obligitory trillian link

[brain159]

Also, when they introduced Trillian Pro, they gave everyone who had previously donated >= $1 a free license to Pro for a year (I think it's a year's worth of updates, not necessarily a year of using it). Cunning ploy to get us to want to pay for it after a year, certainly, and I'm convinced already :-)

Pro adds the ability to read RSS feeds for you and pop up stuff when there's new news to be read (it alerted me to this /. entry). It also checks for emails and a few other similar nice things. Pro doesn't have IRC, but I prefer mIRC for that anyway.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[jshare]

Odd, I'm using Trillian Pro for IRC right now.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[lewp]

The AIM file transfer capabilities of Trillian seal the deal for me. I realize that for more technical users that this isn't a big deal (everyone has a server, right?), but my less technical friends are always trying to send me files via AIM and it gets old really quickly explaining why you are using a client that isn't capable of accepting their transfers. I use Gaim on my non-Microsoft boxen and this appears to be the only major feature it's missing.

I shelled out the $25 for Trillian Pro when I saw the first screenshot. The default interface is arguably better than AIM's and is much tighter than the ugly rounded default of the free version. The "Send to" context menus for initiating IM transfers out of Explorer, Open... dialog boxes, and just about everywhere else are a nice time saver. The weather, mail and Winamp plugins make it useful enough to consider "docking" to one side of your screen if you have the real estate (I don't do this because I have already discovered the "one true way" for my Windows desktop). Finally, with the Minibrowser plugin you even get the full HTML profiles you see in the regular AIM client.

Oh, and Trillian Pro will notify you of mail in your Yahoo! account too (and MSN, and even AOL it looks like), but unlike the other clients it gives you quick and easy checkboxes to turn this feature off if you, like me, don't waste your time with Hotmail or Yahoo! Mail.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[alanjstr]

Trillian is for Windows, and there is a free version.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[rmohr02]

Yes, the poster said Trillian can connect to IRC, he just preferred to use mIRC.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[Velex]

Don't forget about Kopete for us crazy KDE users. It's got the standard AIM, MSN, ICQ, and Yahoo, plus Jabber, Gadu-Gadu, and a plugin for using WinPopup messages.

Personally, though, I use Psi with Jabber.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

Its not UNIX, Its portable. It will run on just about anything POSIX, And they even made some (albeit buggy) windows binaries.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

You, sir, are a funny man. When the AIM developers programmed a feature into the protocol and client to send binary files, I am sure they intended it to be used for sending binary files.

Tim

Re:obligitory trillian link

[manly_15]

I use both GAIM and Trillian, and BOTH have the autologging capability. I'm not sure what the defaults are in each program.

In Trillian, to turn off autologging, go to:

Preferences-->Message History-->Automatically log-->none

Make sure that you apply to all services, which is a checkbox at the top of the window.

I find that trillian is very good on my PII 233 with 64mb ram. In the end, it saves me having to open MSN, ICQ, IRC in seperate programs. It is also much more feature-rich when compared to msn, especially when window-managing.

As a bonus - most (if not all) config files are XML based. Each user has a seperate folder with preferences, etc, so it is REALLY EASY (as in change the default directory) to use trillian on multiple computers with the same config files, given that the computers are networked with SMB.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[Amiasian]

On the Mac front, we have two major Cocoa multi-client contenders. Fire and a very beautiful client which is called Proteus, link unrecalled. Anyways, there the OS X answer to Trillian and Fire is open source to boot.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[Tronster]

There is the cost of having to deal with the infrequent pop-up dialogs to pay for the Pro version. After so many days of usage (60?) I received such an advertisement. I'm using 0.74b and haven't upgraded as I heard new versions do this more frequently.

A co-worker purchased the Pro version, and it really does have some nice features, but not $25 worth of nice features IMHO. I'd feel more generous towards their efforts if their free version is pop-up free, but I suppose they've added this feature because most users don't mind this. (If they've removed this in recent versions, please respond.)

Re:obligitory trillian link

[Buran]

I'm still waiting for a Mac OS X port of Trillian.

Re:obligitory trillian link

[TunaPhish]

a client that isn't capable of accepting their transfers. I use Gaim on my non-Microsoft boxen and this appears to be the only major feature it's missing.

In case you haven't noticed, gaim supports file transfer now...

iChat?

[JHromadka]

Hopefully Apple will add this functionality to iChat as well. I don't personally use ICQ, but there are plenty of folks who do.

Trillian for windows Gaim for linux

[fortinbras47]

For all practical purposes, aren't they integrated on the client side?

Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA

[krog]

"To each protocol according to its need; from each protocol according to its hackishness."

-a Red

Next week in the news...

[MontyP]

AOL files a lawsuit against itself as it tries to integrate ICQ into their Instant Messenger System.

Re:Trillian

[OldMiner]

What else could you possibly want in one integrated IM client?

For it to be free?

Re:Trillian

[Dog and Pony]

Less AOL, Yahoo, MSN and IRC? Oh, wait...

I wouldn't miss the ads though. :)

Trillian is okay, but ...

[kalvyn]

Okay, Trillian is just swell, with the exception that AOL constantly tries to block it. Why? I don't have a friggin' clue.

But!! Gaim is much better. It has never suffered to the blocking that Trillian does AND it is now available for Windows. Although, Gaim is still best used under *NIX. :-p

Re:Trillian is okay, but ...

[Jucius Maximus]

"Okay, Trillian is just swell, with the exception that AOL constantly tries to block it. Why? I don't have a friggin' clue."

That was months ago. I have been using Trillian Pro to access AIM and ICQ and there hasn't been a service outage since ... I can't remember! Definitely not within the last few months.

Re:Trillian is okay, but ...

[rogueuk]

Just for completeness, Gaim *has* suffered multiple block attempts from AOL. They have, however, been very succesful every time at releasing updates that fix the blockages, usually within a few hours.

Trillian, on the other hand, has been very slow. I remember being unable to sign on for about a week, while gaim would just chug along happily on my linux box

honest to goodness question...

[RealBeanDip]

What is going to be the next big thing in chat that makes all of this a moot point?

What's the next killer "chat" app and why does it matter?

I personally find most "chat" boring and don't see the point of it. People obviously use it though, so I guess I just missed the point.

Re:honest to goodness question...

[unicron]

I personally find most "chat" boring and don't see the point of it. People obviously use it though, so I guess I just missed the point I use it because the phone sucks, and even if I did enjoy using the phone, most of the people I talk to on aim are boring as hell on the phone. People just naturally seem better able to communicate when you can't hear their pauses, sighs, and hums.

Re:honest to goodness question...

[isorox]

I use it because the phone sucks

I use it because
1) I cant phone people in the middle of a workshop at uni
2) Mobile phone calls cost arround a dollar a minute to australia. ICQ costs arround a cent a millenium. Dont use MSN or AIM - I've got a semi-low number on ICQ.

Re:honest to goodness question...

[cei]

I personally find most "chat" boring and don't see the point of it. People obviously use it though, so I guess I just missed the point.

The way I see it, snail mail was a very asynchronous means of communication, while telephone was synchronous. In the former, you wait a considerable time for a reply, while in the latter, the reply was instantaneous. E-mail changed things a bit. Communication was still asynchronous, but it was also instantaneous. The potential for two people to both be logged in and having a timely exchange regardless of location was nice, yet if one party was unavailable, the message wouldn't be lost to the ether... they'd just get it next time they logged in. No per message costs were another factor, what with postage and long distance rates always a consideration.

IM straddles the line a bit more. You know when someone is online, but they may be otherwise occupied. It allows an informality... a way to exchange one-liners or anything else, without the recipient feeling they NEED to respond immediately. It's good as a background task so long as neither party is overly anxious for a reply. Less effort, and more potential for a timely response than email.

Just my two cents...

iChat just got cooler...I think...

[toupsie]

I am assuming that the integration will be rolled into Apple's AIM client, iChat. Now it just needs MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger and Jabber support. The built-in Rendevous support in iChat is one feature that the Open Source community should jump on. Not only for chat but all forms of connectivity without the tedious cfg editing. I would love to message my Linux and BSD servers securely for system info.

Me: Hey web server, what's your load?
Linux-2 Web Server: Heavy dude! Slashdot just linked to a page and I am r0X0red to max! Talk2UL8r

Re:iChat just got cooler...I think...

[Thomas Charron]

iChat actually *IS* using Jabber. For it's iChatiChat user communications. ;-) The iChat servers are.. *drumroll please* Jabber servers.

Re:iChat just got cooler...I think...

[toupsie]

iChat actually *IS* using Jabber. For it's iChatiChat user communications. ;-) The iChat servers are.. *drumroll please* Jabber servers.

They are? Do have a link to this info?

Thanks!

This is long overdue...

[Newer Guy]

This also makes the combined messaging client absolutely unstoppable HUGE! I only wonder if they're planning to merge features (for example, ICQ allows you to send a message to someone even if they're not on; AOL doesn't). Now if they'd only interoperate with everyone else, instant messaging could become big enough to replace email.

So...

[Evil Adrian]

Bloated AIM client + Bloated ICQ client = 20 MB executable. Greeeat.

Re:IN SOVIET RUSSIA

[SlugLord]

In Soviet Russia, protocol integrates you.

Bulwark

[SexyKellyOsbourne]

For the rest of us, there has always been Trillian -- I guess they don't like it stealing business from their adware ICQ/AIM programs, so instead of trying to screw up older protocols, they actually decided to compete.

As much as I hate the methodologies and idiologies of AOL, I applaud this move: it's a bulwark against the encroachment of MSN Messenger's .NET Passport, which will only lead to other bad things, including but not limited to Palladium. When it comes to things like IM, in the end there can be only one -- God forbid it be Microsoft and their schemes.

Diable Open source

[haplo21112]

Does this mean the open source ICQ clients are gonna get killed...?

Functionality?

[intermodal]

Does this mean they'll be adding ICQ functionality to AIM, such as being able to message/recieve messages while i'm not online or the person i'm sending to isn't online?

Does this mean...

[jesser]

the AIM client will finally include a feature that lets you change how someone appears in your buddy list (e.g., "Jesse Ruderman" instead of "JesseRud")? I can't imagine AIM forcing users to deal with a buddy list full of 9-digit ICQ numbers. Other than automatic logging, this is the feature I'm hoping for the most in the official AIM client.

Re:Does this mean...

[alanjstr]

Trillian lets you change the locally echoed names.

Re:No AOL didn't finally wake up

[OctaneZ]

Well, I would just like to point out that Talk has been around effectively forever, with a more standardized version appearing with 4.2 BSD (although it broke compatibility with Sun's implementation at the time)

So, NO, talk was not an icq knock-off.

-OctaneZ

One program eventually.

[cyberise]

Now we gotta wonder what AOL will have up their sleeve next. It would be nice to see one client out instead of having both AIM and ICQ.

Re:One program eventually.

[2MuchC0ffeeMan]

easy:

make aim look more like icq, have a 'skinable' butotn at the bottom

have an aim skin, and icq skin..

also, for those yapping about advertisements

www.jdennis.net has Deadaim ... great program kills the ads and logs for you ...

for those of you who don't want to wait

[Theodore Logan]

Have a look at Gaim.

I don't use it myself, but it's sourceforge's most active so I'm sure someone finds it valuable.

This is terrible

[drinkypoo]

I've always avoided AIM like the plague it is, but I've been using ICQ for a fairly long while (For instance, I have an eight digit ICQ number beginning with 1. I had a seven digit a long time ago but I forgot it and lost it.) Now they're going to release a new ICQ with added AIM and it's going to suck, suck, suck.

Re:This is terrible

[rmohr02]

Search for yourself on ICQ's people search. Odds are you'll find your number.

Re:This is terrible

[Junta]

Hehe, I have a *7* digit ICQ # beginning with 1, so ha!

Competition for Trillian?

[SargeZT]

Nah, Trillian is far more functional then this piece of monkey Doo Doo. I have nothing against Mirabilis, but so much against AOL, thought, I will admit, AOL has satisfied my curiosity of what will happen to a CD when it's microwaved for 3 seconds.

Re:Trillian for windows Gaim for linux

[reverse flow reactor]

don't forget that GAIM has an alpha version that does run on windows.

And it has plugins for all the following protocols:
* TOC
* Oscar
* Yahoo!
* ICQ
* MSN
* IRC
* Jabber
* Napster
* Zephyr

Re:Newsflash: AIM, ICQ, MSN, Y!, IRC integrated!

[Theodore Logan]

It's called Trillian. Though it's not open source (sorry purists)

Well, Gaim is. It supports AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, MSN, IRC, Jabber, Napster, Zephyr, and Gadu-Gadu.

So

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

Does this mean ICQ might finally throw out those stupid numbers?

I mean - no one goes to slashdot by typing http://64.28.67.150...

Tim

Re:So

[CyberKnet]

Why does having to be TOCT1987 instead of TheOnlyCoolTim because 30 other people tried it before you make so much more sense?

ICQ's system gives you a unique identifier, and lets you choose your own nick name, even if other people use it too. The same nickname that lets people find you by a name, instead of a number. Although the nickname may have to be used in conjunction with other identifying information, if the nickname is too common, but still...

I'm not saying either system makes more sense, however, if we're being critical of cryptic identifiers, then let's do be fair.

Re:So

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

At least you get to pick the numbers so that they make sense and are easy to remember. If I wanted the username randomidiot, and it was taken, I could use, to give some all too common examples, randomidiot69, randomidiot666, randomidiot1985, randomidiot420, or any other number that people will remember.

Tim

Re:So

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

Exactly - 8 million people didn't have the idea of naming a website slashdot.org, and no one had the idea for the usernames "TheOnlyCoolTim" and "varebel."

(Actually I think that slashdot.COM might have been taken by someone else before slashdot.org existed, but they sold it to this place pretty early on)

Tim

Re:So

[CyberKnet]

If I make myself CyberKnet76 because 76 was the year I was born, while it's easy for me to remember, it's highly unlikely that my friends are going to think "Oh! CK was born in 76! Silly me, how did I forget that!".

FWIW, My icq # is 554430. How easy is *that* to remember. I never noticed when I registered, or I would have kept trying for 554433. I cant claim a slow slash UID (I never posted for the longest time) but my ICQ is relatively low.

Look at it this way. People are great at remembering streed addresses and also great at remembering phone numbers. Does that mean we should only use one of those identifiers for both mail AND telephony? Not really. It would be a major pain trying to dial 18 N Cherry Pl. Omaha, Nebraska 39281 on a phone. And it would be impossible to redirect a slightly mangled address if it was just a phone number.

I do agree that these nine digit icq numbers are a little more difficult to remember, but still... when it comes down to it, I honestly believe that your friends are *not* going to remember your messenger (ICQ/AIM/MS/etc) UID. No matter what it is. And that is why every messenger has searching capabilities, which are usually more than adequate to make up for this fact.

Neither system is superior, imho, and users of both systems will fight tooth and nail to try to say that theirs is.

WHAT A TROLL

[Roadmaster]

This HAS to be meant to be either a hge troll or a humorous comment, but since it hasn't been modded as such, here are the inaccuracies in this comment:

1- UNIX talk predates ICQ by at least 10 years, and it appears as "vastly inferior" because it's meant for a completely different purpose. A car appears "vastly inferior" to an airplane because it can't fly, but that's not what it was meant to do.

2- Trillian's author (and those of all the "compatible" IM utilities) aren't "stealing intellectual property"; they're doing reverse engineering of the protocols, then implementing those protocols in their own applications. It's actually so legal, it's even explicitly permitted by law. It's actually a good idea since that way I can use all those IM networks without having to use Windows, or Yahoo's, AOL's and Microsoft's client software. Um, maybe they would prefer I didn't use their IM networks?

Trading files is not "illegal" per se. That's all I'm going to say about this one.

This is AOL realizing "hey, we bought ICQ a while ago, let's start actually doing something with it", because they were getting stomped in the IM arena by competitors.

This is partially factually inaccurate

[Anonymous Coward]

AIM and ICQ are both owned by AOL. ICQ is the original IM.

Accurate.

And at one point was the most poular.

I think this is accurate, but i'm not sure.

There have occasionally been UNIX knockoffs, like the vastly inferior command line "talk" implementation, however it was incapable of letting you know whne new users had signed on, also, it could not do file transfers.

Um, wrong. If the parent post is a troll, this is probably the little "subtle absurdity" flag. The UNIX Talk protocol is very, very old and serves a different purpose than that of AIM. I'm not sure when it dates from, but i see here an RFC for a message-sending protocol to allow "write" messages to be sent across TCP/IP, that dates all the way back to 1983. For comparison, AOL was founded in 1985. Anyway, Talk has not traditionally been used quite the same way as AIM, for that purpose look at IRC. (Yes, it's slightly different.)

Programs like Trillian, that do what the author of this article suggests have been having a difficult time lately because they steal Yahoo, AOL, and Microsofts intellectual property, in an attempt to make money. It's like companies like Kazaa and Gnucleus that make money off of other people trading files. It's illegal. And not a good idea.

This is absolute nonsense. Trillian, GAIM, etc have been having no problems, as they are using AOL's servers with permission using the specifically-made-for-third-parties TOC protocol. The big sound fury about "stealing" was when MSN tried to use the OSCAR protocol used by AOL's AIM client instead of TOC, and AOL said "you can't do that, these are our servers and you have to agree to use TOC". This was a very reasonable issue, but the issue was over "unauthorized access and use of a computer system", not over "stealing intellectual property" (?? Where does intellectual property come into this? TOC is publicly documented, and when third-party AIM clients do some wierd runaround and try to slip in some OSCAR features, they do so using reverse-engineering, which is completely legal to the point of not even being an intellectual property issue). Anyway, Jabber has problems from time to time because AOL really, really seems to hate them, and so last i checked they are leaving TOC out of the main codebase for fear that jabber puts TOC support in, AOL will shut down TOC just to keep jabber out or something.

This is just AOL doing what is best. They saw a duplication of effort in their own company and decided to stop it.

Accurate.

I would bet that a lot more people would use Linux if Open Source programmers would wake up and realize that they also are (most of the time) duplicating effort. Gnome and KDE are but one example. Just search freshmeat for an mp3 database organizer one day, and you'll see what I mean.

This is opinion. However, it is by no means an invalid one.

Thank god

[dpete4552]

Actually both systems already use the AIM OSCAR protocol. They are already controled by the same servers even (you can log into AIM using the server login.icq.com or login.aim.com it makes no difference). The only thing is that atm AIM puts a privacy policy file on all AIM accounts that blocks screen names with numbers in it and you are unable to remove it. So ICQ people can't message your AIM account because it is as though the person is blocked, nor can they see you online, nor can you see them online or message them.

All they need to do to make this happen is remove that entry in everyone's privacy file. I always thought it was stupid having them seperated anyways.

About time!

[Twintop]

AOL Contacts: 126
ICQ Contacts: 283
Y! Contacts: 38
MSN Contacts: 27
The day they all become one: Priceless.

There's some things Trillian sucks at, for everything else there's...erm, well what was there again?

It Can't Fail

[egg troll]

AIM + ICQ: It'll combine the brain dead users of AIM with the hideous feature bloat of ICQ. It can't fail!

Re:Trillian

[Tink2000]

God forbid AOL get a hold on what is arguably the best client I've ever used. I'd have to go looking for another program that does it all without the ads. I never got a single ad or pr0n spam before AOL bought out ICQ.

Call me a troll, but...

[SleezyG]

People still use ICQ? Although I always believed ICQ to be vastly superior to AIM, nobody uses it anymore! Once day about two years ago I realized that I was only person actually online according to my ICQ contact list.

Re:Call me a troll, but...

[cygnusx]

ICQ has a _crap_ interface (though the new ICQ 2001 is better) -- but it's very good at SMSing (or texting) folk around the world -- a service Mirabilis provides to ICQ users for free. This alone makes ICQ worth it, if lots of your friends have cellphones.

Think before you speak.

[Decimal]

Gnucleus (a gnutella client) doesn't make any money, period. The author ("Swabby") created the freeware because he wanted to see a good file trading client available. It is certainly not illegal to make freeware that others will use to illegally trade files with.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

spam

[ItsBacon]

Note: I haven't used ICQ in at least a year, so things might be a little different now, but I used to use it quite a lot (I have a 7 digit UIN).

I remember that there was a lot of spamming on ICQ, especially with offline messages. Is this going to cross over to AIM now?

Re:Trillian

[lewp]

The Crossover Plugin will download and install Trillian for you. I don't use it in Linux, personally, but the Crossover stuff seems to work pretty solidly so I'd be surprised if it didn't run acceptably.

Fire for OS X

[mofu]

Fire for OS X integrates AIM, ICQ, MSN, Yahoo, IRC, and Jabber. Plus it is GPL source, and uses GPL libraries.

Stating the obvious

[mao che minh]

AOL/Time Warner is bringing together the two massive IM communities to disuade them from straying onto other integrated IM solutions, like Trillian (which has probably been mentioned about 50 times in this discussion by now). This maximizes their advertisement potential. Users will predictably be weined off of ICQ towards AIM, which will eliminate the need to develop two seperate IM clients that effectively accomplish the same goal.

Re:Stating the obvious

[PhxBlue]

The beauty of IM programs, though, is you can minimize their advertising potential with one simple step: disable the applications' access to HTTP port 80 in your firewall software.

Re:Stating the obvious

[BradleyUffner]

The thing that bugs me about advertising on the IM clients isn't the ads themselves, it's the space they take up. You may be able to block the image by blocking port 80, but you still have a huge chunck of whitespace polluting an otherwise clean interface.

friend of mine worked at AOL

[RelliK]

He says that the servers for ICQ and AIM are _identical_. The only thing that separates the two networks is _one flag_ (in the message header, I think), that AOL can switch at will. The reason AOL kept AIM and ICQ separate is purely political: they didn't want the competition to connect to AIM. (IIRC, this has something to do with fulfilling the AOL/TW merger requirements). Microsoft has been quite vocal on this issue, even going so far as to propose "open standards" for instant messaging. Funny how they cry foul when they have to fight an uphill battle for a change.

Re:friend of mine worked at AOL

[homer_ca]

The conditions imposed by the FTC on the AOL/TW merger were that AOL must open it's IM network to competitors when it starts offering "advanced" services like video. Ever since then, they've dragged their feet on putting video features in AIM (pretty obvious when you see the "everything but the kitchen sink" feature list in AIM 5.0). Yahoo and MSN have had video for at least a year now. article here

Re:friend of mine worked at AOL

[mentin]

The reason AOL kept AIM and ICQ separate is purely political: they didn't want the competition to connect to AIM.

Maybe they don't want the number of users that they can report to shrink in a moment they merge networks?

Today they have 130M ICQ users plus 160M AOL IM users. If they merge the networks, those 100M who have both ICQ and IM running will have no reason to do this anymore and choose one of them. So instead of 300M combined users AOL will have "only" 200M :)

Re:friend of mine worked at AOL

[vranash]

Heh, if they actually bothered to do DB trimming, they might find they've got significantly less users than that on ICQ at least, most people I know/knew have had at least 3-5 accounts, and ofttimes pick up a new one every time they go and reinstall windows (auto-login is *NOT* your friend, esp if you lose your PW).

Am I missing something?

[Joff_NZ]

I still use only IRC for messaging, but this is gonna make things easier for a lot of users.

IRC??? Whats that? I'm still using ytalk

Why not match userID's?

[strredwolf]

Why not match userID's, like Ebay did when it brought in Half.com? My UID for ICQ and AIM Screename could be linked together.

Re:Why not match userID's?

[coene]

With as many accounts as they have, and with the real AOL subscriber DB, thats a logistics nightmare....

Re:Why not match userID's?

[Planesdragon]

With as many accounts as they have, and with the real AOL subscriber DB, thats a logistics nightmare....

Hardly. Just offer it as an option, set up a server, and boom.

The option to tie IM names together is a Good Thing, anyway... consolodation of redundant systems is always worthwhile.

Re:Trillian

[user32.ExitWindowsEx]

I don't think Cerulean Studios would sell out. The people over there can be so anti-AOL at times that they can give Slashdot a run for its money.

Re:There goes IRQ!

[L0rdJedi]

I doubt that this will do anything to the interrupts within your computer :)

Plugins and Skins

[Lilkeeney]

AOL has waited to long to make this jump. A lot of users have switched to using other clients rather then the AOL client. Millions of people use the AOL client and many of them download other software attempting to alter the client such as AIM+ which allows you to eliminate the ads as well as ad logging. However, if AOL released a client that allowed plugins as well as skins, many people would of not switched to other clients. They could of even kept their ads and (tried) to make it so they couldn't be removed. However, some programmers would create a skin or a plugin rather then creating a new client. And it would be easier for novice users to download a skin and not to learn how to use a new client. I believe that is why winamp has been so popular over the years. Yes, it doesn't have ads, but without plugins or skins I would say it would of been a minority in the market share long ago. One of the main reasons I have switched to GAIM is the plugin support.

Re:ICQ for OSX, would be nice if it WORKED.

[myov]

There are a number of third-party ICQ clients for X. My favorite these days is Proteus (don't have a link handy, but it will be on MacUpdate.com)

US National Security & AIM/ICQ/Odigo

[Anonymous Coward]

This story's been pretty much ignored by the US media (except for a 4-part Fox News story that later disappeared from their site.) It concerns Odigo, another Israeli IM company. Check it out:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

Also:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israeli .WMV

How will this affect spam?

[Brent_DS]

The whole reason I scraped ICQ from my box was because I got too much spam through it. I wonder if using ICQ names through the AIM server will prevent spam? After all, I've never been spammed over AIM, that I remember... Then again, maybe I should have just looked more closely at ICQ's privacy settings.

Re:How will this affect spam?

[kisrael]

I've started to get porn spam pretty damn regularly. Always the formula some girl name + a 5 or 6 digit number, and always a one sentence come on with a usually munged link (URL goes one place, but looks like it's a link to a diff URL). And it seems to always arrive right after I login...suspicously so.

Sometimes I wonder if AIM should change its protocol so that you can't send links to people whose buddy list you're not on...or at least not until they've responded at least once...

Yay!

[SHEENmaster]

No more XDarwin+ssh+gaim just to chat on ICQ! That means that I might reboot to Jaguar within the next month.

I use Jaguar for Warcraft 3, 3d modeling, and audio editing. All programming and daily work will stay in Linux.

Re:ICQ for OSX, would be nice if it WORKED.

[kitzilla]

I've had no problems with iChat under OS X 10.2.1.

Maybe someone will resurrect TAC?

[stickyc]

Maybe this means someone will dust off TAC and release a new version?

Seriously though, (I know, this is OT), are there any other AIM compatible text based chat clients? As one of a not-as-small-as-you-might-think group who's only way to IM is through SSH to a shell acount, it'd be nice to find something stable to use.

Re:Trillian

[theRiallatar]

Problem is, you can't message all of those services without having an account on each of those services. With this new AOL, you can message ICQ users without having to go register for an ICQ number.

Re:Trillian for windows Gaim for linux

[_Knots]

After they went up in arms defending their right to use the name GAIM against AOL, it really wouldn't make that much sense to change it.

Besides, what's in a name?

--Knots;

Re:Trillian for windows Gaim for linux

[messiertom]

Originally, GAIM supported only AIM (and that was its original intent, iirc). Now they've added support (thru plug-ins) for your and your grandmother's chat protocol, but the name stays for historical reasons. Plus if you pronounce it like "game" it sounds sort of cool ;)

Re:ICQ for OSX, would be nice if it WORKED.

[Xenex]

Proteus.

Download here.

Check for updates here.

legal gobble-de-gook

[Aqua OS X]

As I recall there was some legal gobble-de-gook that was preventing AOL from doing this earlier. What this "gook" was, I don't recall. Perhaps there is an old slashdot article on this subject.

Anyway, I'm glad to see AIM and ICQ finally get merged. Out of the corporate IM clients these two are the best. I'd very much like to see MSN Messenger rot in hell. Stupid passports >:|

Re:Not.

[moonbender]

AFAIK Miranda does ICQ, AIM, MSN. I don't really care, though, I only need a slim ICQ client. Most clients I tried were either too slim - they couldn't do things like file transfers - or too ICQish fat - Trillian takes just as long to load as ICQ did. Also, no IM I tried was able to recover my ICQ history along with the contact list.[1]
Well, Miranda could do that, and it also starts in, oh, a split second as opposed to a split minute, which is quite comfortable. FWIW, Miranda is also free as in speech, not as in beer.
The fact that other clients support more protocols certainly doesn't necessarily mean they're better. As discussed above, many people seem to think Gaim, while supporting even more protocols than Trillian, isn't exactly the most comfortable IM around. Well, I'm as comfortable with Miranda as I've never been with any IM before.

[1] I'm pretty sure other alternative IMs can do that by now, too - but none did when I tried them. My IM history is quite important to me.

Spam

[Viceice]

Isn't this just going to increase the reach of ICQ and AIM Spammers?

I mean doing this is juts going to increase the rate of which users of AIM or ICQ are going to be spammed, seeing as how we are now going to see AIM Spam reaching ICQ and vice versa.

AIM & ICQ Integration, MacOS

[sabNetwork]

Needless to say, this has been a move AOL has been planning for ages.

If you hack open an old version of AOL Instant Messenger for Macintosh with ResEdit, you'll find all the necessary UI to implement ICQ integration. They have the icons, dialogs, errors, etc.

It seems that AOL was just waiting for the right moment to flip the switch.

Obligitory Fire link

[Durindana]

Yes, everyone has their own favorite for their favorite . One platform without most of the usual is Mac OS X, but we're blessed with the Cocoa quality and GPL love of Fire.

does this mean that AIM will finaly.....

[the_2nd_coming]

have the best feature of ICQ, the ability to leave messages to people who are offline?

oh please let this be!!!!!1

One Client?

[cranos]

One Client to Rule Them All
One Client to Find Them
One Client to Bring Them All
And In the Darkness Bind Them!

AOL Strikes Again.

Woohoo watch that Karma fly

Trillian

[Masami Eiri]

I've been using Trillian for months. Less memory usage than ICQ, and without the nasties of AIM. The XML based skinning abilites are nice too. I quite enjoy it.

SIP / SIMPLE is more important

[billstewart]

The IETF's SIP / SIMPLE protocol work may be more important, depending on which press release you read about whether AOL is cooperating with them this month. Instant messaging systems and voice-over-IP systems both need to solve the problem of finding users who are connected (typically using a presence server of some kind) and also communicating between the endpoints (typically directly, but potentially through a relay.) The SIMPLE project proposes some extentions to SIP, which means that integration between instant messaging systems and VOIP become easier (because you can reuse code and also reuse management systems.)

Finally..

[Suppafly]

For a long time you could log into aim using your ICQ # and password, but you couldn't ICQ people, and I think lately its been possible to even send people ICQ messages using aim.. It'll be nice once they finally finish the transformation and make it so many people can use one less client.

Win 9x "system resources"

[yerricde]

Memory usage (for me, at least): 3,860k

But how much of that 3,860 kilobytes is in the user.exe and gdi.exe heaps (commonly called "system resources"), each of which is limited to 64 KB on Windows 95, Windows 98, and Windows ME? Last time I checked, I found that running both AIM and MSN takes less "system resources" than running Trillian or any of the Jabber clients I can see.

Great...I've been

[Archfeld]

using ICQ for years now, and the spam has been getting steadily worse. Now I will have the company of the world's most technical user base...
I suppose it is time to lock everyone but the contact list out.

Re:Trillian for windows Gaim for linux

[irc.goatse.cx troll]

Close enough.
GTK Aol Instant Messanger
GIMP Tool Kit..
Gnu Image Manipulation Protocal..

Nested acronyms are fun.

Why I hate ICQ,

[heideggier]

This is just a another technology that provides nothing new, but is made in such a way that mainstream people "GET IT". I mean it's just such a hassle, you have a contact list, and right in the middle of doing something It's like, someone messages you about a new idea for an essay from school (hay dude I think we should do more bout this post 9/11 world). I'm not saying am trying to be elitest, but do any of kernal developers like Linus have ICQ numbers, these are people who do most of their work online and you would think know a bit about it. Add the spam to all of this and I all seems more trouble then what it is worth. Heres the way I see it,

Have a website, put your email address on that site, plus any number of boxes that you what, have a ftp site, but make sure you limited the number of people who can upload to it. If you must, create a irc group and shell account, just make sure that everyone knows the names of group, what time people what to have meetings etc. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that between all the protocols that are already around is there any point to IM to begin with?. Like most of these (vastly overhyped) things they represent just a intergration of old tech, After all what the hell was Napster but an IRC client with a bunch of scripts added. People had been doing things like that for years,

Whats going to happen next? someone invents a app to leech crap of newsgroups creating another bubble of hype with a million troll's crapping on how information whats to be free, and suits going on about the new internet paradigm shift or what ever (READ using it to limited competition and screw developers just like the softwear industry made an art of). And some dweeb selling the thing to whatever corp of piles of $$$'s hang on...

ps... I'm not against IM, just the way AOL/MS act like its the second coming when its really not a big deal. I personally think that all the positioning just hold's things back that could be really useful like CVS.

Re:ICQ seems big in the MMORPG crowd

[sysrequest]

gamers like it because icq doesn't just pop up windows, it can just notify you via the systray.

aim pops up a window, and if you're in the middle of a game, chances are you'll get mad. :)

i use trillian for just that reason. when someone sends me an im, my systray flashes.

Questions:

[WowTIP]

Is each Jabber server isolated, or do they communicate with each other?

If they don't communicate, will I have to run a separate client for each server I have a "buddy" connected to?

That was one of the mayor drawbacks with IRC (which imho still is the best form of IM), you had to find a client that supported connections to multiple simultaneos servers or run several clients at once.

Re:Questions:

[infiniti99]

Jabber servers all communicate with each other, like email. There isn't any network segregation

If I am justin@andbit.net (which, I am), and you are wowtip@jabber.org, then my message to you would go from client->andbit.net->jabber.org->client.

Re:Questions:

[WowTIP]

Ok, that is nice to know. I just installed Psi, Icq and everything seems to work fine. Very nice. Good luck with dealing with those GPL violating b******s, by the way. :)

One second thought though, what happens if the single server I am using goes down permanently? I guess I'll then have to reenter all my data and add all contacs again, at another server?

Re:Questions:

[infiniti99]

Cool, glad it is working for you.

About the server going down: hopefully that doesn't happen :) The good part though, is that if it does go down then it won't take the rest of us out. If you are concerned, your best bet is to run your own server. Personally, I use dreamhost.com, which offers $10/mo hosting which includes Jabber. They even have a nice web based admin section for adding users.

If you don't want to run a server, then just stick with a known public server. jabber.org, myjabber.net, amessage.de, etc are probably not going anywhere.

Re:Trillian for windows Gaim for linux

[reverse flow reactor]

If I understand correctly, the original intention was to be just that. GNU Aol Instant Messenger. But the plug-in nature of it expanded quickly to support the other formats. Once you have a good UI and understand what makes a good IM client, the rest is a matter of figuring out the protocol. And if other GPL projects have figured out the protocol, then it is a matter of adapting it to work on your project.

From the FAQ:
Q.
Did you guys reverse engineer it?
A.
TOC, Jabber, MSN, Napster, and IRC are published protocols, so we didn't have to reverse engineer those. Oscar, ICQ, and Yahoo are not published, and were reverse engineered by other people.

ICQ vs JABBER? AKA 1 client vs * cleints?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one of the reasons I've not gone to jabber yet. Being a very low 2 mil ICQ user for many years, I've liked the fact that as bad as icq can be, there's always a hack I can get to fix it's problems. In essence, because icq is so known, and it's "one" program (versioning aside), it doesn't take much effort to get it the way you like it by just downloading a hack. In comparision, when I looked into jabber a couple months ago, the first thing I had to do was *choose* a client. Having a choice is great and all, but if jabber is going to get anywhere with "Joe Anybody" there needs to be a standard client (and logon server) as the "default" for those who just want to "install, signup and go".
As tzanger said,it's a problem many OSS, crap clients, but it's more than that. If there's 10 different clients out there, what are the odd of my finding the "hack" I need? I'm going to have to relearn a whole new program (each client) to find what I need. And before you say "well make your own client/hack/whatever", keep in mind I've got better things to waste time on. Like playing games and chatting. ;)
Counter all this at any rate, I see the future of icq/aim being merged, and at that point (since I've always hated aol) I'll most likely dump icq at that point. I see it as no different as when M$ bought Hotmail those many years ago. I watched and waited, and it was over a year from the time they bought it to the time they actually messed with it. When they did, I dumped it (thank god). The same thing with icq/aol. It's just a matter of time before they mess with icq enough for me to dump it.

Re:ICQ vs JABBER? AKA 1 client vs * cleints?

[infiniti99]

Curious, why are you "hacking" your ICQ client? Why doesn't it do what you want in the first place?

One word: Jabber.

[Qbertino]

IM makes sense for telephone independent dating and sceduling. Like Clan matches or teamcommunication ("Could you send me testmail to me@mynewmailserver.net. Thanks.")
And for that, in the Clan and with my friends, I'm willing to go into the lobbying for the best IM standard out there:
Jabber.
Why is it the best?
1. Decentralized structure.
2. No AOL/TW, NSA, CIA, Bundesverfassungsschutz (german bad-ass agency) or [fill in your favorite big brother here] in control or in watch over the system.
3. Fully Asymmetric crypto capable. Ergo: Absolutely no NSA, CIA, etc...
4. No spam.

No way am I ever gonna use a proprietary protocol for chatting. .cdr for vectorgraphics is just about all that I can take.

Less IM Clutter

[Bartmoss]

Anything that reduces the IM clutter is good in my book.

Official ICQ Client still needs an update

[alanjstr]

According to developer news site BetaNews.com, the latest beta of AIM 5.1 allows ICQ members screen names to be added to AIM buddy lists with the suffix "-ICQ". The site reported that users of the systems will not be able to send instant messages to each other until a new version of the ICQ client is also released.

More control or less?

[nurb432]

Does this mean they will start screwing around with the ICQ protocol as they do with the AIM protocol to keep alternative clients from accessing the servers?

The alternative clients have better features and less garbage, so i dont want to be forced to go back. Plus they dont have an officially sanctioned native Unix client for icq protocol.

Nope

[nurb432]

Doesnt on mine, latest AIM/Win32.

Never tried it before now.

I still have my seven digit Q number...

[krinsh]

but have not bothered with ICQ for over two years now myself. I loaded it once about 18 months ago but after 50+ offline msg spams I figured it wasn't worth finding any already-known acquaintances or new chat pals for all the cruft ICQ gives you.

Then again, my AIM account hasn't been very handy lately either, what with my friends spending more time offline or in MMORPGs. I guess talking with a couple of my siblings several states away makes it worth it; but it isn't the 'community piece' it may have been a couple years ago - like the commercials you see where the kids forego the phone for the IMs. Maybe they still do; but maybe I'm not a kid anymore. When I worked on a TEAM, with 12 other people doing support work; then it came in handy. It's really weird seeing their names pop up but having nothing to chat with them about anymore - I don't like to whine when things are hard or gloat when I have a juicy consulting gig; and long gone are the days of planning 'work group' holiday parties or movie trips [especially when you may live near them, but no longer work even close].

'course, none of the personals sites are free anymore - not that that even matters (and it SHOULDN'T) when you're happily married.

I haven't read the whole article yet but...

[krinsh]

what if you have both ICQ and AIM? How are they going to cover that? I have the same nick on both; but some people have different ones - and still others DELIBERATELY have different ones (like the party animal who uses a 'clean' nick at work).