Moving to Mac Made Easy

Jaguar777 writes "According to an article on CNET, Apple has a new weapon in its campaign to woo PC users: a $59 piece of software that makes the switch to Macintosh easier. Detto Technologies has started selling Move2Mac, a combination of software and a custom USB cable that helps PC users move many of their files, settings and even background pictures to a new Mac running Mac OS X 10.2. Sounds nice. Is there anything like this in the works for the penguin masses?" Detto has had software to move settings from one PC to another; Apple requested them to make it to move from a PC to a Mac, and will carry it in their retail stores.

Comments

most important feature

[nick-less]

and even background pictures

thats clearly a "must have" feature, take your background pictures with you whereever you go, from pc to mac, from mac to cellular, from cellular to the fridge door ...

Re:most important feature

[larien]

For some (l)users, their background picture is very important...

Re:most important feature

[SecGreen]

These background pictures could contain copyrighted content. This Move2Mac product is obviously designed to circumvent the digital rights of artists, and should be banned immediatly!

Re:most important feature

[Broken Bottle]

Not to be condescending to them, but considering your average Mac user (and Apple) put a much higher priority on asthetics and usability than, say, a Linux user, this is a big deal feature. I'm a network / PC support consultant. Whenever I migrate a user to a new PC, the rule is this: the less tech savy the user, the more important Windows dressing like screen savers and background photos are to them. It's a major comfort issue for them. I think that your typical switcher is going to be one of the people that's less technical than a Windows user NOT making the switch, so things like background photos are a big deal in keeping the new computer comfortable and nonthreatening. It's pretty smart of them to have that feature in the migration software.

Chris

Re:most important feature

[AlgUSF]

Yeah, you might move over that clouds background which comes with windows. I'm sure Microsoft copyrighted that clouds.bmp file.

Re:most important feature

[kootch]

it's all about the comfort level. Apple is trying to make the users that they're moving feel as if nothing really has changed visually... it's still "their" computer. Once they are visually comforted, they'll start using it, and hopefully notice how things work better/faster...

makes complete sense to me

Re:most important feature

[Ponty]

The desktop background isn't all that important, but a novice user's e-mail settings, inbox contents, and downloaded digital camera pictures sure are important.

This is a great move, and really funny, too boot.

Re:most important feature

[ReelOddeeo]

For some (l)users, their background picture is very important...

And with good reason. The background picture they downloaded and installed may very well be the biggest single piece of work effort that they have invested in their Windows computer. They, rightly so, want to preserve the investment of time and effort that they have put into their PC.

Re:most important feature

[benbean]

I feel the same way about my custom bash prompt. A new installation is not complete until it's in place. :-)

On the other hand, my desktop is plain black.

Re:most important feature

[Toraz Chryx]

Only problem there is, the iMac is only available in one colour, the iBook is only available in one colour, the PowerMac is only available in one colour, the Powerbook is only available in one colour, the Xserve is only available in one colour..

Sorry, but your troll is about 3 years out of date, better luck next time.

Re:most important feature

[squaretorus]

The following is not un-typical as a brief run through of my assistance with a friends computer set up

Me: Okay - we'll just dump everything into this Zip drive I just stuck in the USB port - you want everything moved?
Them: Yeah
Me: Okay, My Docs, Email, etc... We'll get the 15Gb of MP3s later okay?
Them: Can you at least copy over Dido?
Me: Okay - right - not just plug it into the new machine click click tap tap click Waalaah - your email, address book, your docs all in place
Them: But wheres my cool Kylie backdrop and freaky wavey light screen saver
Me: You want those??
Them: What the fuck do YOU think! Jesus, I'd be better doing this myself, what a waste of fucking time, get the fuck out of my fucking house you twat! and take your Zippy disk with you!

Its the little things that matter!

Re:most important feature

[Jucius Maximus]

"It's a major comfort issue for them. I think that your typical switcher is going to be one of the people that's less technical than a Windows user NOT making the switch, so things like background photos are a big deal in keeping the new computer comfortable and nonthreatening. It's pretty smart of them to have that feature in the migration software."

That is why images like this (non-pr0n, you can safely click this at work) image exist. :-)

Re:most important feature

[Anonymous Custard]

That is why images like this image exist

(from speech bubble in linked image) "you can take my mac when you pry my cold dead fingers off the mouse"

It's just like a Mac user to need multiple fingers for a single mouse button:-)

Does the apple switch software also help you get used to all the inconveniences of apples, or does it just hope they'll go away?

If apple wants to convert the users who are too dumb to save their important papers (i still think you're cute ellen) to network drives or other secure devices; well they can have them. This whole switch campaign reminds me of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy book where all the useless people (hairdressers, politicians, etc) were sent to a new planet in the first of three spaceships, to go and wait (snicker) for the rest of the world to come by later (wink-wink).

Re:most important feature

[Ozymandias_KoK]

The funny thing is of course, that all those useless, stupid people....are YOUR ancestors!

Re:most important feature

[MoneyT]

Of course, if you continued reading the story you paraphrased, you would have dicovered that the rest of the world later died due to unsanitary telephones because they had gotten rid of the "useless people". In the mean time, the useless people went on to prosper and multiply untill the Earth was demolished to make room for a hyperspace bypass, leaving the entire fate of the human race in the hands of Arthur Dent and Trillian.

The point I'm trying to get at here is while we may sniker at the people that know nothing about computers, they are the one's that keep us employed.

Re:most important feature

[Lev13than]

Oh come on... everyone knows that the whole "aliens blowing up the world for an interplanetary bypass" thing was just something made up by the CIA. They denied it so it must be true.

Re:most important feature

[Anonymous Custard]

The point I'm trying to get at here is while we may sniker at the people that know nothing about computers, they are the one's that keep us employed.

I gotta agree with you here... I made some good spending money during college as a helpdesk worker.

But how much more productivity would a company have if all of their workers suddenly became reasonably competant with computers?

Murderers give news agencies something to report about, and the police something to investigate; but that doesn't make murder a good thing.

Re:most important feature

[Into The White]

Probably the reason only the less tech savvy users ask about desk pics and screen svrs is that they don't know how to set those things themselves. More tech savvy users can set those things themselves. It's got little to do with importance and more to do with user abilities. I don't understand why a tech savvy person can't also admire beauty. Why shouldn't a computer look cool? Do you only date ugly women because pretty women are ALL bimbos?

Re:most important feature

[Anonymous Coward]

I only date ugly women because that's all I can get. Sure, everyone has a sense of smell, but bimbos have options, while uggos don't.

Love,

Average Linux User

Re:most important feature

[crucini]

That sounds good, but will the software scale for resolution differences? Given the march of progress the (new) mac is likely to have higher resolution than the (old) PC - does that mean a black border around the picture, or scaling?

Re:most important feature

[reet]

it will scale. The quartz engine does on the fly interpolation. it might not look as good as an image made FOR that resolution but it will still scale.

i've seen the pc version

[mitzman]

I used to work at Best Buy and we had the PC2PC cable that this article is talking about. It never worked. The cable is definitely a sham and a waste of money. It takes more time to set it up and pray that it works right than it does to just burn a couple of cd's of data. Oh and this cable doesn't copy programs over, just data files. So in my opinion, save yourself the money and buy something else.

Re:i've seen the pc version

[xiaix]

And in what way would moving the program files over from the pc to the mac be useful?

Re:i've seen the pc version

[thesadmac]

Obviously it'd be pretty damn useful to copy all those lovely windows binaries over to your Mac wouldn't it?

Though you do have a point. You could just stick a 5 quid network cable between the two machines and use windows file sharing/ftp/etc, or even burn a CD. But that's not really for beginners is it?

Re:i've seen the pc version

[mitzman]

It wouldn't be any good, but I'm talking about the pc2pc cable, not the move 2 mac cable.

Re:i've seen the pc version

[Anonymous Coward]

> opy all those lovely windows binaries over to your Mac wouldn't it?
Yeah, Boch ;)

> But that's not really for beginners is it?
Nor does it auto set your desktop background.

Re:i've seen the pc version

[Pinky3]

Dell offers the Detto Intellimover when you buy a PC. I have used it twice, both times when migrating from older PC's without CD burners to a new PC. It worked well. The cable has a centronics parallel printer connection on both ends (there is now a usb version).

It also contains a drag and drop "ftp" program for moving things back and forth between the two computers, so you could use it to synch data on two machines that were not networked.

Finally, it moves program files as easily as you can move them from C to D on your own computer (which is why they recommend reinstalling).

Re:i've seen the pc version

[big_cat79]

Oh and this cable doesn't copy programs over, just data files.

Of course it doesn't copy over programs. There are different versions for PC and Mac. I wish that weren't the case, otherwise I would have switched to a Mac a while back. I don't relish the thought of buying the Adobe graphics suite all over again for Mac.

Re:i've seen the pc version

[dbrutus]

Since moving applications on the Mac is an entirely different order of difficulty than moving them on the PC, a little explanation is in order.

Macs, in general, just let you move applications around willy nilly. The filesystem is pretty smart about linking up moved components and generally all executable components are in a single folder (often hidden as a special bundle folder which, when double clicked, will execute the contained application) or file. Beyond that, there's this neat thing called an alias which does a very good job of automagically pointing to a file's new location.

PC applications, OTOH, most often depend on this crufty construction called the registry which hard codes absolute paths to executables and their relevant components. If you move anything anywhere, even on the same PC, that application is toast until you edit your registry (not recommended for anybody but experts) to reflect your changes. The PC version of aliases are called shortcuts and are more brittle.

So, yes, PC applications won't transfer right because the software can't figure out what registry keys have to be pulled and transferred with the application files. The registry hives never were organized very well and they've gotten worse with age. This is also why MS is trying to reinvent the registry because it sucks. Then again, the registry was invented to stem the horror of massively proliferating ini files so I don't expect that their next reinvention is likely to work any better than their last one.

Re:i've seen the pc version

[Vagary]

Why do so few companies copy Epic Games' lead with UT and give consumers all OSes for the price of one? After all, you've already paid for the code and it would be perfectly legal for you to use it in an emulator. Any pirating-prevention schemes that were developed for each OS should still work with combined media.

The only reason I can think of to sell different OS versions seperately is to finance the cost of porting. But Adobe can't use that excuse as they already have a huge market for both sides.

Question: Since you have a license for the software, would you be breaking any laws by pirating the version for the other OS?

Re:i've seen the pc version

[JoshWurzel]

Um, hello? This article is about connecting PC's to MACS! Why on earth would you want to transfer PC programs to your mac...where they wouldn't run.

The reason this cable doesn't transfer programs PC to PC is because Windows programs are inexorably tied to the registry and nearly IMPOSSIBLE to transplant (an easy matter of drag and drop on the mac). This is why windows has arcane uninstall procedures, instead of just deleting the damn thing.

Re:i've seen the pc version

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Question: Since you have a license for the software, would you be breaking any laws by pirating the version for the other OS?

Yes. The Mac version and the PC version are not the same software. You have a license for "the software," and that means whatever binary code you bought. If you bought the Mac version, you would not have received a license for the PC version.

Friendly companies could offer a "side-grade" discount, but it's easy to understand why they don't. How can you, the user, prove to the company that you've disposed of your copy of the PC version? That's the only way a company like Adobe would be willing to give you a 90% discount on a different build of the same application. In the absence of that kind of transaction-- you give the company back the software, they give you the other software, and everybody trusts everybody else-- the best you could ever hope for is the $99-off upgrade price.

Re:i've seen the pc version

[LUN!X]

y'know there's always been a migration tool to help users move from Windows to ANYthing.. just plop an old DOS bootdisk in and fdisk away. nothing to it ;)

Re:i've seen the pc version

[Vagary]

If the application's pirate-protection relies on a CD being in the drive, then simply put the base for all OSes on the same CD or make all the protection mechanisms look for the same item on the CD (CD file formats being cross-platform). If the license isn't tied to some physical entity, then there's nothing to prevent you copying to another machine of the same OS!

How do companies calculate a side-grade discount? They figure out how much they can get you to pay. Why so arbitrary? Because using the software on another OS doesn't cost them anything.

Re:i've seen the pc version

[GMontag451]

Any pirating-prevention schemes that were developed for each OS should still work with combined media.

Actually, its quite a bit easier to pirate CD based apps on a mac because SafeDisc and its relatives don't work on a mac. All you have to do on a mac to copy a CD based app is pop the CD in, open up Toast and make a image from device, and pop a blank in and write it right back.

Great

[Hi_2k]

Now, get me one for linux that also includes a good windows emulator. But, more to the point, the problem has never been ease of use or cusomisibility, but a lack of specilized software that has hurt both mac and linux as a desktop OS. Just getting the neat wallpapers over wolnt convert many people. Still, a step in the direction of instant easy access to all data.

Re:Great

[feldsteins]

...but a lack of specilized software...

Specialized software is just that: specialized. Thus not widely used so I don't think there is much to be learned there.

I think what this company is doing is very smart. Ordinary people do agonize over this issue. "New computer? What will I do with my old stuff?" Even when they got a new machine many of these people never moved their documents over because they didn't know how. They end up having a "legacy box" sitting there which only gets used for Quicken (version 2 possibly) or some such thing. Migrating data is a huge worry for average folks.

And that's going from a Windows box to another! This product just greases the wheels - it's one less thing for the reluctang buyer to worry about so they can go ahead and make the purchase they want. Smart.

My guess, however, would be that the product itself is an utter waste of time for anyone who knows the difference between applications and documents, where each can typically be found, and who knows how to use removable storage media of any kind.

That is to say, millions of people will love it.

Re:Great

[Ixe]

Yeah that would be nice, but I think the biggest obstacle for users converting to linux is the rude awakening of knowledge required to setup and use it to its potential, now they need to know what a computer is :)

It hasn't been a problem for me, I'm been ripping computers apart and putting them back together for a long time, but for some of my friends who I thought were fairly technical, I've been shocked at how much they stuggle with linux.
"How do I get back to the windows part if I swith a dos thing or console or whatever you call it?"
"What do you mean manually set?"
"How do I play game xyz in here?"
The solution to the problem of the user's knowledge requirement I think is installed/configured linux computers, which get /. time now and then...and they also need an idiotproof wizard/lizard/druid/thing that will come up the first time the computer is booted which has the user change the root password, setup at least one user, and give the user the change to take like a tutorial of basic operations (I mean like, how to use the window manager, where to put files etc)

The "good windows emulator" you spoke of will be around soon, when winex reaches their goal and merges their code with the wine project, which I think will happen and once it does, a simple windows skeleton will be there on the system, and some sort of software can detect the user trying to user a windows binary or inserting a windows cdrom and prompt them with a box asking if they are trying to run windows software, and if so, translate their actions to winex syntax etc etc. In the end I think for linux to be a hit w/ "normal users" (non-technical, semi-computer literate) it has to be able to run windows applications (like games, m$ office, quicken, yourfavoritewindowsprogramhere, etc) without the hassle of wine/winex hacking or the purchase of fancy software like VMware (which would require you to buy windows anyway so to the user "pointless") Sounds like LindowsTM? Well it's not, Lindows costs money. I think Open Source software can work, but if advocates of it (hi devels :)) want it to be popular, they need to ungreedily write some pretty code and hype it up for a distribution like mandrake to include. Then when that's settled, we linux users, show it off to our friends and say "See this? It does everything windows does, everything OSX does, and lots more, and its' free. (So why the heck are you still running this?)"

Well this is too long already, but what I'm trying to say to everyone, is that I think we go about marketing linux in the wrong ways- we need to keep it technical, for the geeks and servers and stuff, but make some like "easy mode" for the non-computer savvy so we can push it out on the masses and then more 3rd parties will devel for it and presto, it's _the_ OS of the 21st century...

Make it free

[dhardman]

If I were Apple (which I am not) I'd have this bundled with 10.2 and promote the living daylights out of it. This is the type of tool that PC users have been waiting for. This is one of those rare software applications that would be worth it's weight in gold to the OS company to take under it's corporate wing.

Re:Make it free

[Anonymous Coward]

A CD's weight in gold$10

Re:Make it free

[Fear the Clam]

If I were Apple (which I am not) I'd have this bundled with 10.2 and promote the living daylights out of it.

That doesn't exactly make sense. If someone's buying 10.2, they already have a Mac.

If it were going to be bundled, it would make more sense to do it with new Mac systems, where someone might be upgrading from a Windows machine.

Re:Make it free

[dhardman]

That's what I meant...If it were a feature of 10.2 it would come with new Macs. I like the other idea about a 100% rebate though.

Re:Make it free

[Into The White]

I agree totally. Charging for this software is absurd....why not give it to all new Mac buyers for free if they want it? That way the new Mac users feels welcome from the start and has a good impression of Apple. Charging for it is just dumb. It's cheap software, easy to develop, little maintenance, so it isn't as if Apple would take a significant loss on bundling it with new Macs. Sometimes Apple is so damn cheap. But in complete contradiction to this typical behavior, Apple gives away all those bitchin' iApplications! That's what's so weird about this "switch software"--Apple charges new Mac users good money for this bimbo software, but then they turn around and give the new user several hundred dollar's worth of free software with their new Mac! Utterly confounding!~

Very nice

[Omkar]

Tools like this can help shake MS's Windows monopoly. When people can move to different OSs easily, and work with people of different OSs, differences in quality will finally start to drive decisions.

Re:Very nice

[Anonymous Coward]

People often chose the OS by looking at what software they want to run. This only moves a few files around, doesn't make a Mac run Windows software.

Re:Very nice

[mj_1903]

Although any windows software that is worth anything is on mac anyway. If your software ain't there, its in a shareware repository or its on fink.

Re:Very nice

[darien]

What about Sonar? Sure, I could move to Logic, but I'd be writing off all my existing songs, not to mention years of experience and a whole load of plug-ins.

If Twelve Tone made Sonar for MacOS X, it's maybe 80% likely I'd end up with a Mac within a year. Since they don't, it's more like 10%.

Apple's next step

[steve.m]

A better move would be for Apple to sell cheaper Mac's - I can't afford an iBook and I don't want an iMac or an eMac:

I want a Mac about the size of a SPARCclassic, with a fast 3D card, a dvd+burner and all the rest of the Apple goodness, but with no monitor. I've got my own perfectly good 17" sony. Why can't I get one of those!

Re:Apple's next step

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh cmon, I'm tired of people complaining about how expensive Macs are. I'm a Marine, I earn below the minimum wage, in fact well below the poverty line. I take home $2012 each month after taxes. With that, I have to pay ~$1000 (USD - Yen rate fluctuates) plus food, gas, adsl etc and provide for my wife and 2 kids. Yet I can afford an ibook, and old PC, and just ordered an iMac for the wife. They are not that expensive, if you just manage your money and save for a while. I'm sure someone in the IT industry could do better than me ;)

Re:Apple's next step

[weez75]

Just hold tight until Wednesday. Apple is releasing new iBooks and TiBooks. The new iBooks will start at $999 and TiBooks at $2299. They'll both get quicker processors and in some cases larger harddrives. No Superdrives this time around so you might have to wait to burn DVDs.

Re:Apple's next step

[Anonymous Coward]

$2012 is below the poverty line?! Which one - the one between "rich people" and "not so rich people"?

Hate to tell you, your lifestyle in Japan is supported by taxes paid by the Japanese people, and it's definitely not unusual to be making less than that in Japan.

Re:Apple's next step

[BlueGecko]

I want a Mac about the size of a SPARCclassic, with a fast 3D card, a dvd+burner and all the rest of the Apple goodness, but with no monitor. I've got my own perfectly good 17" sony. Why can't I get one of those!

You do know that any monitor can be used with a Mac, right? Even my PowerBook has VGA via an adaptor provided with the machine. Beyond that, if you cannot afford the current model you want, just buy a used one a generation back. You should be able to get a SuperDrive model for about $1300-$1400, which you're not going to convince me is that much more than a well-built equivalently priced PC.

A better move would be for Apple to sell cheaper Mac's - I can't afford an iBook and I don't want an iMac or an eMac:

iBooks start at $1199 and will be lowered to $999 tomorrow if the rumors are true. How much cheaper do you want, exactly?

Re:Apple's next step

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get one of those. We just got a new Mac tower unit. Dual-867's, GeForce4, 512ram, takes 4 internal drives + CD drives (and can do software raid), DVD/CD-RW...

$1699 (+discount from Warehouse)... no monitor.

The only problem is, I can't remember what a SPARCclassic looks like. If I remember, it's a small box. Either that, or it's a mammouth machine... just... can't... recall...

Re:Apple's next step

[Anonymous Coward]

You should be able to get a SuperDrive model for about $1300-$1400, which you're not going to convince me is that much more than a well-built equivalently priced PC.

Emphazis mine. Nuff said.

Re:Apple's next step

[Anonymous Coward]

I make $9/h, and take home about 1.3k per month.
That's about $2.50 more than the min wage where I live.

Re:Apple's next step

[Nomad37]

i can't believe you people modded this up: what if I ask for an x86 box that runs os x or for apple to adopt be os for os xi? honestly what sparky wants for christmas is hardly insightful now is it?

Re:Apple's next step

[killmenow]

How much cheaper do you want, exactly?

This is slashdot. Venture a guess...

Re:Apple's next step

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the CUBE was such machine. Absolutely stunning, price tag included.

Re:Apple's next step

[obsidian head]

In Japan $2012 must be pretty damn good. I don't think you're anywhere near povertyline. In even rich large European countries, you're making a decent windfall. And the Japanese economy is not doing so well, even relative to the US.

You can afford a Mac.

Re:Apple's next step

[jez9999]

It's great to see that people aren't judging others based on stereotypes anymore.

Re:Apple's next step

[darien]

Sure, I /could/ afford a Mac; but, as the parent to your post implied, I'd be paying for extra stuff I don't need. If they sold G4s without a monitor, RAM, hard disc or CD-drive, they could make them (say) £200 cheaper and it's a lot more likely I'd buy one. As it is, it's much more cost effective for me to buy a new bare-bones PC and move most of my existing hardware over to it. Of course, not everyone wants to shunt hardware around; but, as this story shows, Apple wants to encourage Windows users to switch platforms. Selling bare-bones Macs aimed at technically competent Wintel users certainly wouldn't hurt that effort.

Re:Apple's next step

[Scarblac]

for about $1300-$1400, which you're not going to convince me is that much more than a well-built equivalently priced PC.

In other news, it was announced that object X is not that much heavier than any other object of equivalent weight.

Re:Apple's next step

[steve.m]

I don't want to pay a premium for the awful LCD-on-a-stick you get with the iMac. I don't need the portability of an iBook. If i'm not going to use it, i'm not inclined to pay for it.

I just want a little box I can plug my monitor into, preferably one that looks like the G4 cube's they used to make.

Re:Apple's next step

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt you could buy a PC with all the software you need to bring in, edit, and burn a DVD for $1300 that is worth a shit.

Re:Apple's next step

[Arkham]

Obviously there was no market for the cube, hence the discontinuation of that product line.

If you want a G4 Cube, buy one on eBay.

Re:Apple's next step

[call -151]

You can hang external monitors off of $999 iBooks (as pointed out by others) and the towers if you really cannot imagine being without your 17" monitor. What many people don't realize is that it can be possible to hang a different monitor off your old CRT iMac or the eMac. Why you would want to do this is a different question, since the internal displays are pretty reasonable... I know for sure that the older CRT iMacs had a standard VGA cable buried in there. When a buddy of mine got the first variety of iMac in 1998, we hung a 21" monitor and it drove it very nicely. Of course, it looks like crap since your formerly sleek computer is in pieces, but if you have a nice monitor around, and don't mind a desk that looks like a tornado hit it and a voided warranty, it may be worth doing. The eMac doesn't have to be disassembled to get external video- it has its own little external mini-VGA port. It can only drive external monitors at the same resolution as the internal monitor, though. 17" monitors can be nice, but the eMac display is pretty nice, and the price is pretty good- check out LowEndMac's various pages: eMac deals, flat panel iMac deals and CRT iMac deals and of course Dealmac and the Dealmac basement if you are trying to get a good price.

Wanting the Superdrive definitely cuts down on the opprtunity for a great deal, but I see an eMac refurb G4/800, 256/60/SuperDrive for $1,399 which is pretty impressive for writing DVD stuff.

Re:Apple's next step

[dbrutus]

Poverty for a family of 4 is 14k/year. At 2k/month * 12 he's making 24k so yes, he's above poverty level but not by a heck of a lot. He's poor mouthing a bit but his larger point that you don't have to be rich in order to run a mac is certainly on target.

24k/year is not rich. In fact, I'd call it lower middle class and barely that. I think the Earned Income Tax Credit phases out at 17k/year. That phase out level is where I'd set the limit for working poor and he's just 7k above that.

Re:Apple's next step

[dbrutus]

Congratulations, you are not in Apple's target market of people who want a machine that "just works". Move along now, this machine is not for you.

Even technical users sometimes just want the damn thing to work.

Re:Apple's next step

[me3head]

Exactly! People on slashdot don't seem to recognize this very often. I spend all day programming drivers for embedded systems in assembly language, so I consider myself *very* technically compitent, however when it comes to the PC I work on, I just want it and my development apps to work. I dont want to have to debug my PC so that I can get to debugging my work.

Re:Apple's next step

[JCholewa]

> Oh cmon, I'm tired of people complaining about how expensive Macs are. I'm a Marine, I earn
> below the minimum wage, in fact well below the poverty line. I take home $2012 each month
> after taxes. With that, I have to pay ~$1000 (USD - Yen rate fluctuates) plus food, gas,
> adsl etc and provide for my wife and 2 kids. Yet I can afford an ibook, and old PC, and just
> ordered an iMac for the wife. They are not that expensive, if you just manage your money and
> save for a while. I'm sure someone in the IT industry could do better than me ;)

Hah! I'm someone in the IT industry. I'm a programmer, webmaster, network administrator and tech support guy well versed in Windows 9x/NT, unix, perl, and a few other areas. I would *love* to make two thousand dollars each month after taxes. As it is, this year I made less than $1500 a month *before* taxes, though I *might* make $2000 per month *before* taxes next year. What's that? $1500/mo after taxes? Combine that with $2500 in unexpected car repair payments, more than another thousand in car insurance, $2600 in rent for the year, tons of gas money for my 45-minute-a-day commute, then add food (and I'm on a [successful!] diet, so I'm actually spending a lot less than I otherwise would) and assorted other requirements that don't come to mind at the moment, and the end result is that I have barely enough cash to go to the movies with my friends every week. Geez, is it any wonder why people steal mp3s (I don't, but...) and other luxuries instead of footing the expensive bills for them?

Incidentally, are you sure you're making below minimum wage? I think that's $5.15 in the US still. I may be incorrect, but if that's the case, you'd have to work four hundred hours to make two thousand dollars before taxes, and probably more like 550 hours a month to make that after taxes. That's 25 hours a day if you don't count weekends. Colour me skeptical.

To others, I apologize for the off-topic post. I'm just a disgruntled techie. ^_^

-JC
http://www.jc-news.com/

Re:Apple's next step

[default luser]

Well, at 24k after taxes, you're taking in roughly double the US national mandated minimum wage ( state minimums can be higher ).

I imagine since you are military, you get free housing, or you are supplied a housing credit if you live off-base. Consider how much housing in Japan costs, and suddenly you're "bringing in" 40k+

But even if you do pay for housing, you still qualify for EIC, and that can add a little to the pile come tax time.

Re:Apple's next step

[MoneyT]

Dude, if you're only bringing back 1,500 a month as a programmer, webmaster, admin and techsupport, you're working for the wrong people. Doing techsupport alone, you should be able to find people willing to pay $25 an hour (hell CompUSA will charge $30 an hour, just for labor. That's $100 in 4 hours, or roughly 60 hours to earn what you made in a month.

Re:Apple's next step

[MoneyT]

The cube had too high of a price tag for what it had originaly, that's why it didn't sell.

Re:Apple's next step

[MoneyT]

Dude, the LCDs on the iMac are beautiful compared to a lot of the ones I see sold in stores. Very sharp clear picture and bright.

Re:Apple's next step

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a Marine, I earn below the minimum wage, in fact well below the poverty line. I take home $2012 each month after taxes.

That would be about $32,192 (assuming at worst a 25% tax rate, most tax rates are much higher). Unless you've got six kids, you're not below the poverty threshold (and you've already said you have 2 kids). And in order for you to be making less than minimum wage, you'd have to be working over 100 hours per week.

To give an example, I take home about $2030 a month, and I'm considered to be above average in a state with a very high average salary (it's not Alaska, but it's pretty high) - as an IT person.

Re:Apple's next step

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Hear, hear. I used to-- before I got laid off again and decided to give it all up and go to cooking school-- be a professional programmer. I used computers (SGIs mostly, but also PCs) intensively all day, and sometimes all night if I had a deadline to meet. All of my personal computers are Macs. I like being able to get my email, surf the web, write letters to grandma, play music, and do other things without ever having to fiddle with any internals.

Of course, since I've got OS X on all my machines, the low-level stuff is available to me if I want to touch it. I just don't have to.

Re:Apple's next step

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously haven't looked. The G4 is available with no drive, no monitor, and just base RAM for quite a bit less. Think first, post later.

Re:Apple's next step

[Crosis]

Well that depends on where you live. In New Zealand (where I live) apple pretty much ignores us, so there are very few resellers. This causes Apple products to be A LOT more expensive than descent PCs (which you can buy anywhere).
To demonstrate, lets compare:
Dell 2.8Ghz P4, 17" LCD, CD-RW/DVD: NZD5627
Apple G4 2x1.0Ghz SuperDrive, 17" LCD: NZD10095

Both are high quality, high performance machines with all the bells and whistles, but the Apple is almost twice the price.

Re:Apple's next step

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

It's kinda funny really, Everytime I'm reminded that Macs 'Just work' compared to PCs, I'm reminded when my iBook either:

• Goes into the 'sleep coma' (from with is doesn't wake up without a re-boot.
• Wakes up with none of the sound, screen, eject keys working (a big deal if you turned your screen off, and now can't see to adjust the brightness via the prefs panel).
• Rips CD, and due to a bug, encodes all the gaps cause when the CD reader has a bit of reading the track (I have a 5 second delay right in the middle of Shine On You Crazy Diamond).
• The entire machine locks up, due to win2k being an ass and dropping the network connection in the middle of a file transfer.
• I have a few CDs that don't play well in some CD-ROMs. Sometimes I'm forced to re-boot the machine after puting a CD in (has Apple never head of timeouts?). Ï think I force ejected once. But untill the next re-boot, the CD-ROM was pretty much dead as far as the OS was conserned.

A lof of these problems are well knowen if you go to the applecare forums. None of them have any acceptable fixes. A lot of them are also a year old. Does Apple even care? Probably not.

Re:Apple's next step

[darien]

Oh, I assure you, I'd love a computer that "just worked." And I'm not saying Apple should stop selling Macs that "just work" straight out of the box. I'm just commenting that, although a new Mac may not cost all that much more than a new PC, if you already have a PC (and a screwdriver), the cost differential can be far greater.

As for Apple's "target market": OS X is clearly intended to appeal to the tech-savvy as well as the idiot majority; and if you've ever opened up a G4 you'll know it was definitely designed to be easily upgraded with industry standard components. So it seems a bit harsh simply to say the Mac is "not for me." Their marketing may not be currently focusing on people like me, but the machine itself is by no means a bad fit.

A poster below says I can buy a "bare-bones" G4; maybe I'm just being dim, but the minimum spec I can choose on the Apple website seems to be a dual 867MHz with 256Mb, a 60Gb HD, DVD/CD-RW drive and no monitor. Total cost: £1,348.99. Have I missed something? All I'd want is maybe a single 700MHz G4 with none of that stuff (well, perhaps a very small hard disc and a tiny amount of RAM, just so it starts up out of the box). Based on the price of the eMac, I'd expect it to cost maybe £750.

(Which, incidentally, is how much Dell are charging for a complete new P4 2GHz system with 256Mb, 40Gb, DVD/CD-RW drive AND a 19" monitor.)

Re:Apple's next step

[Anonymous Coward]

He said 2k/month after taxes, so ramp up the numbers a little more, since the 14k minimum wage is gross.

Re:Apple's next step

[GMontag451]

Dude, if you're only bringing back 1,500 a month as a programmer, webmaster, admin and techsupport, you're working for the wrong people. Doing techsupport alone, you should be able to find people willing to pay $25 an hour (hell CompUSA will charge $30 an hour, just for labor. That's $100 in 4 hours, or roughly 60 hours to earn what you made in a month.

Where the hell do you live? Where I live (western WA) $1500/month for tech support is pretty typical. You'd be pretty damn lucky to find a job that pays $20/hr for tech support, let alone $25.

And you are an idiot if you think that anywhere near the full $30/hr CompUSA charges for labor goes to the people actually doing the labor. I worked at a local computer store that charged $60/hr for labor and the highest paid tech only got $10/hr. The rest of that money goes to support the costs of owning a business.

Re:Apple's next step

[MoneyT]

I was reffering to doing freelance tech support. There are a handful of people arround where I live that advertise in the papers offering onsite tech support. At $25 an hour these guys are making a killing. Also, if you look arround in the rich districts of your living areas, you'll find often that towns and communities are hiring with decent paychecks. I know one of the local towns hired a guy to be the site admin for the town government for something like 25,000 a year. Then again, this is upstate NY that I'm talking about, and some of those people have money to throw out the window. I suppose you could always aim to be a contractor for the schools. The one's our local HS hired to do some of the connections for the network this summer were getting $30 an hour. If I recall right, they also were getting something like $1,500 on top of that for each connection. Maybe that's why they were only hired to do 12 connections but still, that's a lot of money.

Re:Apple's next step

[GMontag451]

Then again, this is upstate NY that I'm talking about, and some of those people have money to throw out the window.

Oh, that explains everything. Upstate NY is one of the wealthiest regions in the entire US. The wages you will get in that region are completely ridiculous. The fact that you could get $30/hr working for a high school just illustrates the point. In my area, the teachers don't even get paid that much.

The people who are advertising in the paper are probably not getting very much business. It is incredibly hard to get business without a storefront, especially for computers. They may be charging $25/hr, but when you only get work for 15 hours/week at the most, it isn't that much. You also don't get to do retail for all the parts you will need to replace.

Re:Apple's next step

[dbrutus]

Let me know when that Dell comes with IEEE-1275 (Open Firmware) compliant BIOS so the plug and play actually works all the time.

The reason I say that the mac is not for you is that you're looking at individual components and their up front costs only. The Apple business model is enhancing the lifetime experience of 'the whole widget'. This is a combination of affordable initial cost, well tested hardware combinations, software that is easy to use, applications that are compelling and maintenance costs that are reduced all with compelling human interface rules that are embraced by an enthusiastic developer community. They don't always hit the mark but that's what they're trying for.

It's no sin to be price conscious or even extremely price sensitive and certainly a majority of computer users are not currently in the mac target market but you should at least understand enough of Apple's business proposition to know if what they're offering is what you want and not bitch at them to wander off their business plan. That pisses off mac users because wandering off that business vision is what happened during the downhill slide years.

How about....

[ZoneGray]

If they want to make it easier to switch, all they have to do is drop the price 50%.

Re:How about....

[Anonymous Coward]

How are they going to pay that guy for the groundbreaking decision to make the plastic at the front of the case blue if they don't charge 100% more than PC builders charge for roughly the same hardware?

Re:How about....

[BJH]

Yes, God forbid that they should make money from people who want to buy their products...

Re:How about....

[Mononoke]

If they want to make it easier to switch, all they have to do is drop the price 50%.

No, no. They should make them FREE!

And they should be based on x86 architecture, and have all the legacy ports ever used, and put Windows on them ('cause, you know, Solitaire), and 5 1/4" floppy drives, and a DVD+R drive, and a DVD-R drive, and, and, and...

They probably could drop the price 50%, but I don't really want to run MacOS on PackardBell hardware.

Re:How about....

[ninthwave]

Roughly the same hardware.
What is your definition of roughly, that it is a processor with some extra stuff?
I am not a Mac User my last mac was a 4400. But I have always admired Apple for using cutting edge to high end technology in their machines. Price a machine with the same specs as an iMac on a pc. 17 inch flat screen DVD CD-R fire wire ports, network cards and all. And you have similiar costs.

Re:How about....

[Daniel Dvorkin]

They drop the priced 50%, they go from generally decent profits and occasional losses to big losses all the time. Sales would go up, but not fast enough to get them out of the rut they were in during the Amelio days -- they were selling lots of machines and had a viable long-term stragegy, but people didn't buy Macs because quarter after quarter of red ink had Wall Street convinced that Apple was going out of business soon and so a Mac purchase would be wasted money.

Also, a lot of the price premium you pay goes into R&D (vs. the "Windows tax" you pay when you buy a new PC from just about any major maker, which goes straight into Microsoft's PR and legal departments.) The reason Apple's software is "insanely great" -- and their hardware, if not i.g., is pretty damn good -- is because they spend the time and money (especially the money) to do things right.

Yes, yes, Linux has accomplished great things with a largely open, low-cost development model. But there are a few viable ways to develop great software -- open source is one (although it's worth noting that an awful lot of Linux goodness comes from paid developers) and real corporate R&D is another; perhaps the best model is what Apple's doing, which is combining the two. The MS way, which involves a complete lack of real R&D and a team of developers which seems dedicated mostly to ripping off other people's work, is not one of these ways.

Before you write this off as mindless anti-MS, pro-Apple propaganda, consider this: I was one of the very few who did switch from PC to Mac during the Amelio years. I did so because I realized just how bad MS software (which I'd been using for years) was getting, and I decided that I didn't mind paying a few more bucks if it got me a computer that did what I wanted it to, when I wanted it to, with a minimum of fuss. And I've never regretted that decision.

Re:How about....

[alienw]

You can't even get Intel processors as slow as the ones inside most Macs. 800MHz? A ~2GHz AMD now costs about $80 and is inside most news PCs, so I don't see how macs are cutting edge. Sure, PPC has maybe 10% extra performance because it's a better architecture, but it doesn't compensate for the huge gap in clock frequency.

Sure, apple design is great, but the price/performance ratio is dismal. PC prices are so low that the mac cannot compete with them.

Re:How about....

[azav]

You should read up regarding data pipeline depths. Intel chips have a longer pipeline and this is not always a good thing. The chip used in macs today is not a PPC, but a G3-G4. These chips have shorter pipelines and can do more per clock cycle. So 800 mhz Intel 800 mhz Motorola.

Re:How about....

[Blondie-Wan]

And if they want to make it even easier still to switch, all they have to do is drop the price some more. I bet if they dropped it 90%, that'd be even better. Better still, why not drop it 100%, and give Macs away for free? Oh, wait, idea - they could pay people to take them!!!!

Oh, and they could also send someone out to the switcher's house / business to personally switch all the files! And they could foot the bill to provide Mac copies of all the user's software, or functional equivalents! And hey, as long as they're dishing out iPods, they could offer 1000 free CDs of the switcher's choice to fill it up with (and a CD rack to put them in, of course, and then a new closet to put that in, since they'll only need the CDs once, to rip them). And they should provide free internet service in perpetuity!

And while they're at it, why don't they send someone to wash the car and walk the dog? Jeeze, they don't even give you a lousy fruit basket. Bah. Stupid lousy cheapskate Apple.

Re:How about....

[ninthwave]

Ok I won't get into the chipset differences.
The only test I ever did was running Seti@home on a 400Mhz imac and an AMD 800Mhz at the same time and watching the imac beat the amd machine by more than a 3 to 1 ratio. This was not a good test but convinced me that computationally macs were not to be compared by clock frequency. That aside because this argument can and does go on for ages, the rest of the hardware in the current iMac package for example compared to a PC costs will get you the same. If you are arguing on chip speeds I would prefer a mac. But I am happy with my AMD 350 all SCSI machine and Linux. My wife's Duron is fine but she is eyeing up an Imac for future purpose. I have owned many machines my favorite for the technology available at the same time as ownership was the Mac. But software availability is still a large issue. Hardware and hardware cost I think the life cycle of a Mac will be longer than a pc, with related Mac software vs pc software, but because the platforms are so different the it is hard to directly compare.

Re:How about....

[Anonymous Coward]

> perhaps the best model is what Apple's doing,
> which is combining the two. The MS way, which
> involves a complete lack of real R&D and a team of
> developers which seems dedicated mostly to
> ripping off other people's work, is not one of
> these ways

Hmmm...
Grab Mach, get some cool BSD core stuff, pick up/buy some other technology to throw on top, and call it an OS. Apple and Microsoft followed the exact same procedure but Microsoft did more work on the kernel and didn't take as much stuff from BSD.

Re:How about....

[AlgUSF]

Thats nice, how about I sell you a computer that has a 5 GHz processor. The processor will consist of a one bit adder capable of running at 5 GHz.

Hey if PPC can get 10% better performance at 1/2 the clock rate, I would take that anyday, because that means that it is able to get more than twice as much done in a single clock cycle. (P.S. I don't own a Mac, I just get ticked off when people use clock rates of different architectures to equate performance)

Re:How about....

[Anonymous Coward]

But they still wouldn't have a second mouse button....

Re:How about....

[MoneyT]

That's really understating a lot of the effort that get's put into putting something like OS X together. If making an apealing easy to use/configure/install OS was as easy as dumping parts of systems together, the Loniux crowd would have done that years ago. A lot of OS X is BSD yes, but there are many parts that are from the dead Copland project, from NeXT and internaly developed.

You need a cable

[Anonymous Coward]

to remove your head from your ass!

Hands up if you want this?

[falser]

Honestly this doesn't sound like the kind of advertarticle that appeals to the Slashdot crowd. It's fairly simple to change background images, email settings and so on - I don't know anyone who's too lazy to do that. And I imagine many people around here do as I and use a fileserver to store their important information (who trusts their desktop computer?).

Re:Hands up if you want this?

[thisisatest]

Ah, but ease-of-use products like this are exactly the type of thing that sells.

Sure, you could duplicate it with a crossover cable, a shell script or two, and an ftp server, but that's not the point. The point is that something like this appeals to the broad segment of the computer-using population that is incapable of generating such a setup themselves, and is equally unlikely to find the freeware equivalent on the web which we'll imagine is named 'desKtopKopier' or 'Klone' or the totally descriptive 'Imperiator'.

I'm pretty damn good at creating search queries, and I still have a hell of a time finding simple little applications online of this sort - the kind of thing that I could create myself, but would rather save myself the time.

Marketting money is great fun. Not so sure about the name 'Move2Mac', either, but whatever.

Re:Hands up if you want this?

[Anonymous Coward]

> It's fairly simple to change background images, email settings and so on - I don't know anyone who's too lazy to do that

Does it worth 49$ to do it yourself ? How much does your time cost ?

There is definitely a market for that sort of tool. In the PC->Mac case, apple should give the tool with the OS.

Reason: your co-worker, girlfriend, father could get an acocunt on your Mac OS X machine to try it with his real documents. That would be killer.

Re:Hands up if you want this?

[jez9999]

Does it worth 49$ to do it yourself ? How much does your time cost ?

Your time probably costs significantly more than $49. However, if this tool is ANYTHING like Microsoft's 'upgrade to Windows version x' tools, the only chance you have of not having a completely messed up system is to do it yourself, rather than letting a piece of software automate it.

Re:Hands up if you want this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Adverticle LOL right up there with "I'm a Ministainer!"

Moving to a Mac

[catwh0re]

This software has actually been out for a while.

In addition to this software apple has the following guide on how to move common settings over to a mac should it not be intuitive already. Guide to Switching to a Mac.

Re:Moving to a Mac

[WiggyWack]

You're wrong. It hasn't been out for a while. It was ANNOUNCED a while back, but they just started shipping last week.

Re:Moving to a Mac

[catwh0re]

Yes you're right. You should be able to get your hands on it in mid November.

Mouse settings?

[swb]

What about my mouse settings? Acceleration, double-click speed, button assignm...er, nevermind.

Re:Mouse settings?

[Qbertino]

Nittpicker.
Macs got all the mousespeeds you need:
slowest, slow, normal, fast, fastest

Ain't that enough?

Re:Mouse settings?

[Jucius Maximus]

"What about my mouse settings? Acceleration, double-click speed, button assignm...er, nevermind."

I actually use doubleclick speed as a way to keep people from messing with my machine. I turn it up waaay high and most people just don't click that fast and get frustrated. Kind of like a poor man's dvorak keyboard.

Re:Mouse settings?

[Anonymous Coward]

I turn it up waaay high and most people just don't click that fast and get frustrated. Kind of like a poor man's dvorak keyboard.

Also a sane man's dvorak keyboard.

Re:Mouse settings?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Actually, it isn't. I have always found the mouse settings on Mac OS (X and classic) to be far too slow. I also can't stand the acceleration at all. First thing I do to a new mac is install some 3rd party mouse software so I can use my mouse without thinking.

If Apple are trying to get people to switch, then you'd think they'd atleast emulate the settings avalible for PCs. Because the range of settings are very different.

Re:Mouse settings?

[thogard]

I don't think Apple will ever understand the mouse. I've been using mice since before the Lisa came out and I've always felt the need for several buttons. The early mac dealers would all say, you don't need more buttons, just do this... and I would say that another button on the mouse would prevent 3 to 10 extra mouse movments. I've only bought two macs so far and they were only $400. After cussing at mac os X last night, I don't think I'll be in the mac buying mood ever again but had they had mac os x 5 years ago, I would be promoting the silly things now.

Re:Mouse settings?

[Lars T.]

If you're too stupid to buy a multi-button mouse for the Mac, you shouldn't be using computers.

An obvious answer

[HiQ]

Is there anything like this in the works for the penguin masses?

Sure dude, It's called a brain...

Slashpost

[Anonymous Coward]

* Make it free/OS ( +5 Informative )
* Macs are expenive ( +3 Informative )
- No they are not ( +1 Informative, -1 Troll )
- Yes they are
- fuck you
- You a wanker and a twat
- repeat forever.
* Macs are slow ( +3 Informative )
- No they are not ( +1 Informative, -1 Troll )
- Yes they are
- Suck my cock dick head
- I know you are, but what am I?
- repeat forever.
* Mac is not really/fully commited to OS, it sucks ( +5 Informative )
* Clone it for Linux ( +5 Informative )
- Don't clone it for linux, if you can't move your files your a thick bastard and should not use linux ( +5 Informative )
- Piss off dickhead
- fuck you
- repeat forever.

* Slashpost ( -1 Repeating everything allready said )

Linux has something similar

[IamTheRealMike]

I believe some distros, Lindows for instance, will offer to transfer your personal data when you stick in the CD before installation. I know one of them will copy across personal documents, email (settings and mail itself), bookmarks and so on.

This could be made a lot slicker however, for instance copying across chat program settings, proxy configuration and so on. I was going to suggest Wine integration, so your Windows apps appear in the Linux menus, but thinking about it Windows normally has so much garbage on it I wouldn't want that, and anyway Wine works better when apps are installed into it.

Nice idea from Apple, although methinks the real problem isn't transferring background pictures, the real problem for them is applications. Most windows users have 1 or 2 oddball apps that they simply MUST have, on top of all the usual suspects. I've met people who won't consider anything that doesn't run one particular brand of scrabble game for instance, and most Windows users often have hobbies or even jobs based around such things as well. When Apple figure out how to get Windows apps working on MacOS (don't think it'll happen myself) then this will be more than just a gimmick.

Re:Linux has something similar

[paiute]

I've been using this thing called Virtual PC for a while on my 266 G3. Revolutionary! Runs Win95 better than my state of the art Dell Optiplex GXi at work.

Re:Linux has something similar

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. Most users only have one must have app and it is a web-browser. Let's face it, for the regular home user I'd say that 90% of computer time is for surfing the web. Switching should be no problem.

Partial Solution - Still Gripes

[andy_geek]

As a long time Mac user, I recently convinced my wife to take the plunge and switch from W2K to a shiny new iBook. While she loves the form and function of the 'book, and she loves how all the apps work, migration of her data was a beee-otch! This software really wouldn't have done anything to resolve the big issues: moving calendars and email. I was able to to this through several machinations because I (huzzah!) am a trained IT professional (and I'm used to dealing with M$ making it as difficult as possible to move from PC-to-Mac). But if she had to do this on her own, or more-to-the-point, if all of the other mom-and-pop's out there who Apple is targeting with their "Switch" campaign had to do it alone, she would have booted the iBook across the room and gone back to her namby-pamby W2K box.

Apple really needs to address this: they've done a good job stating the case as to WHY a "switch" would be in user's interests: they damn sure need to make this process simple, bulletproof and COMPLETE, before they find a lot of people switching their sorry keisters back to Windows faster than you can say "Blue Screen of Death".

OK.

Re:Partial Solution - Still Gripes

[Anonymous Coward]

Bingo
a 120 point video instructional web based index like this:
http://www.nerdmaker.com/photoshop7/index.h tm
of things to do when converting to a Mac. Comes in three flavors:
old man instructor
young man instructor
babe in bikini
similar to the I switched to mac videos:
http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/ellenfeis s.html

Re:Partial Solution - Still Gripes

[Masem]

There was a writeup of the Move2Mac program in the latest MacAddict magazine, and it specifically mentions that it doesn't just do file transfers, it also tries to transfer as much as it reasonably can from Outlook, OE, or some of the other more popular Win mail clients into the Mac equivalent, as well as internet bookmarks and cookies. Handling the email/PIM information is probably much more important to most than making sure the background picture is still the same, and that's part of this M2M program's selling point.

Re:Partial Solution - Still Gripes

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

I've been playing around a bit with my PIM info, to see if I can get it accross to the mac. And I agree, it's deffinitly not easy.

If anyone else is wondering. I think the best plan of attack is to move most of you stuff via PDA.
And move the rest (probaly e-mail mainly), or all of it if you don't have a PDA, via Mozilla.
Mozilla has the ability to import your Outlook database info via connecting to so some part of the OS (Any progam that wants info from the Outlook DB can only do it via this service IIRC).

From there, Mozilla can let you export your info with better options than Outlook. Then you can copy them over and import them into your iApps.

It still a lot of dicking around. I have only tried it once, and by the time I had imported to the iApps, some of the data was lost (Palm's custom fields I think). But it should be possable with a bit mucking about.

Since my main box is a 1.3Ghz AMD, with 512MBs RAM running win2k, and my Mac is a 600Mhz iBook. I won't be moving until I replace my win box with a PowerMac anyway. Hopefully by then, things will be a bit easier.

- 1, old unfunny and not relivent joke.

[Anonymous Coward]

DOn't the new macs support 32 buttons by default?

So this is funny how?

Old News

[nileshch]

This is quite stale news. Dating back to 17th July.

Re:Old News

[goldspider]

How is an article link to a story about the SAME FUCKING TOPIC modded -1: OFFTOPIC?

I hope I see this one in meta... I thought it was an interesting/informative post, for what it's worth.

Yes but can it...

[_PimpDaddy7_]

Also move my multi-gig p0rn collection over as well? I heard iPhoto can do wonders....

I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[ThaReetLad]

If i've spent £1000+ on a uberPC with everything, I dont want to have to switch hardware to run MacOS. Apple will never seduce Windows users while their investment in hardware cannot be transported over.

We all know that M$ is an evil monopoly but I think the reason why they're a monopoly is because Apple refused to compete with microsoft on the commodity PC platform. For years microsoft had no decent rival on platform that brought computing to the masses. OS2? I was a joke at best. Apple had (and has) decent software, but until they grow some balls and decide to play with the big boys.

We see the effect and penetration that Linux is developing on the desktop in the Red Hat and SuSe form, and that is fighting against the established monopoly. This proves that there is, and probably always has been, a market for a real alternative to Windows for existing windows users, but which has been left sadly vacant for years. Had Apple decided to stop making hardware and just sold software, perhaps we would not be in the trouble we are now in regarding MS vs DOJ etc.

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Microsoft may be evil, but Apple could be accused of having done nothing to stop it, when perhaps they were the only ones who could have.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[andy_geek]

I think you're mistaken on this. Yes, your hard-earned 1000 quid went into that box, but we both know it'll be obselete within a year (oh, quit moaning: it's true!). Computer buyers are becoming savvy enough to know this (I know, not ALL of them, but many of them). Therefore, I don't think it's a stretch that some people will think: "Hmm, I gotta blow a buttload of money on an item that'll last me about as long as an ice cream sandwich - how about I get one that does stuff better, looks better, and doesn't crash?" No, we're not talking about scads of people using this logic, but some do. Apple is beyond trying to win back substantial marketshare from WinTel (face it, they lost), but modest gains are suitable, and the types of users who might think this way are precisely the people Apple wants as a user community.

I am certain Apple is happy to have an idiot like me pontificating about what THEY want. :)

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[mirko]

it'll be obselete within a year (oh, quit moaning: it's true!)
Well, except if you actually use your config : I am a musician and I just can't even envision some switch from pc to mac : I'd have to buy cubase or to switch to the recently-acquired-by-Apple-Emagic Logic (Yes, I know, they'll give you the cubase2logic upgrade at a lower price but even...), I'd also need to put both of my soundcards and their corresponding drivers...
In short, I'd actually have to spend more after acquiring the Mac itself in order to achieve the same level of functionality.
Now, not even in my wildest dreams : my PC is my musical instruments and, as this, I should keep it for quite a long time.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[andy_geek]

Your PC is not a musical instrument: it's a tool, dummy. I'm a musician, too, and feel it's not only plausible, but preferible to using a PC. Yes there's expense, and yes there's hassle. But if you really view your PC as an instrument then you should want the Stratavarius, not the Suzuki.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[ThaReetLad]

I dunno about being beyond getting back. If Apple release MacOS for x86 I think I might give it a go. perhaps triple boot MacOS, WinXP, and Linux. Then if I liked it, and found there were apps that I liked I might even buy it. Hey, perhaps there should be a time limited trial version so you can see if you like it.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[Elbereth]

If i've spent £1000+ on a uberPC with everything, I dont want to have to switch hardware to run MacOS. Apple will never seduce Windows users while their investment in hardware cannot be transported over.

Well, the PowerMacs are the same thing as any other PC, except the firmware and processor. If you look at a PowerMac motherboard, you'll see a bunch of chips by National Semiconducters, Opti (RIP), C&T (RIP?), Winbond, etc. My 450 MHz Blue & White PowerMac has a 64 bit PCI bus, with three PCI slots. There's also a 66 MHz PCI slot, but that's just a cheap attempt to get around the lack of an AGP slot. Of course, newer PowerMacs do have AGP slots. The firmware is kind of cool to play around with, because it's the same thing (OpenFirmware) that Sun uses in their Sparcs. It's based around Forth, a design choice I'm not sure I agree with...

The problem here is that OpenFirmware needs to know how to initialize your PCI card. If it can do that, there's a slight chance you'll be able to use it with your PowerMac. The next problem you will face is getting a driver. A lot of Mac hardware out there still doesn't even support Mac OS X. The chances of you being able to locate a driver for some generic piece of hardware is pretty slim.

You can basically forget about stuff like your Soundblaster Audigy Platinum, which cost $200. Also, forget about your Matrox Parhelia, which is $300. LSI Logic doesn't support the Mac, either. That means you need to buy an overpriced Adaptec SCSI card (or a Qlogic card, if you can find one in the U.S.). Bleh. Nvidia video cards will probably work fine, though. You'll need to flash the video card's firmware with the Mac version, though. You can do this from any PC running Windows. Good luck trying to find a PowerMac that doesn't come with generic off-the-shelf hardware marked up 200% by Apple, though. Have you ever seen how much they charge for a generic stick of RAM or a low-end hard drive? It's sickening. I could buy a SCSI hard drive for the prices Apple wants for their IDE drives.

Trying to put anything new in a PowerMac is always a gamble, at best. The best thing to do is stick with the original hardware that was installed by Apple. Upgrading or modifying a PowerMac is not for the easily frustrated. There are entire websites out there dedicated to rating hardware for Mac compatibility. The fact that you can't use a Plextor SCSI CD-ROM in a Mac blows my mind. WTF? Oh well. Nobody ever said Macs were the best choice for power users.

I'd definitely recommend staying with x86 if you are a power user. Leave the Mac for the artists and people who are confused by a mouse with two buttons.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[andy_geek]

I'd definitely recommend staying with x86 if you are a power user. Leave the Mac for the artists and people who are confused by a mouse with two buttons.

Not to sound haughty and pedantic, but isn't it possible that it's not a confusion issue, but the fact that it's simply more elegant? Just a thought.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[The Cydonian]

OS2? I was a joke at best

Please to meet you, Mr OS2. I'm sure you find better as a human rather than an OS trying to compete with Microsoft. I like your self-flagellating philosophy, something that /.tters might as well learn.

Tell me, was the competition *that* hard?

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[mirko]

Don't play semantics, please.
My PC is de facto music instruments because it can :

• a mastering/monitoring sound card
  
• a expander sound card
  
• a software sequencer
  
• many software effects, instruments and external devices interfaces
  

So, well, I guess it would not only be a significant financial problem to switch but also a very long time until I could get the same functionalities from another environment.

Now, yes, I like it the way it work, caus' I stabilized it to the core, it's a tool, but a creative tool, thus an instrument.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[Colin Bayer]

How is changing the function of a single button to involve the use of a button and a modifier key "elegant" in any way, shape, or form? It requires two separate devices instead of one.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[master_p]

"but we both know it'll be obselete within a year (oh, quit moaning: it's true!)"

Come on! do you upgrade your PC totally every year ? I have last year's GF3, the year's before hard disk and I am running (amongst other O/Ss) win ME!!!! I have upgraded my motherboard, but my Athlon 650 is more (way more) than enough, even for the latest games (I don't know for DOOM III though).

This argument that PCs are upgraded every year was true five years ago. It's not any more, because PCs are way too powerful.

"Apple is beyond trying to win back substantial marketshare from WinTel (face it, they lost), "

Apple lost the market share, but it can be won back!!! with the quality of MacOS X, and the strong BSD underneath, Apple has a winner! as soon as MacOS X for WIntel is released, I will switch (along with many other frustrated people, both users and developers, that I know). And it would be the greatest revenge for Apple!

Right now Apple may be earning money from the hardware, but they will earn a lot more money from selling software (OS X I mean)!!! don't forget the difference between a materialistic product (like hardware) and a abstract product (like software) : you can produce as many O/S cds as you like, and after the development costs are covered, the rest is almost pure profit!!! but for hardware, the profit is fixed...

The Macintosh advantage is its software, not its hardware. People buy Macs for their great interface. The software runs nicely on the hardware though, because the hardware is 100% documented with no tricks. But PCs have caught up with the Macs: todays PC hardware is very very good. Apple should select specific hardware PC configurations to run their O/S on, with every component throughly tested.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[wormbin]

"Hmm, I gotta blow a buttload of money on an item that'll last me about as long as an ice cream sandwich - how about I get one that does stuff better, looks better, and doesn't crash?"

Everyone that I know (Mac and PC users alike) are reacting to the short lifetime of computers by buying the cheapest box possible. For Windows users this is buying the bottom of the line Dell, for Linux users this assembling a box out of used pieces or even buying that Walmart PC, and for Mac users it's used iMacs or refusing to upgrade. (I know a ton of non-techie Mac users who refuse to upgrade to OS X which boggles me)

People want a cheaper computer and the first company to make a decent $200 box (Sony? Panasonic? other?) will sell a million.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[Anonymous Coward]

I applaud you for remaining true to your instrument and not buying into the "mac artist" gimmickry.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[Daleks]

If i've spent £1000+ on a uberPC with everything, I dont want to have to switch hardware to run MacOS. Apple will never seduce Windows users while their investment in hardware cannot be transported over.

Aside from your motherboard, ram, and CPU all of your PC parts can be transported to a Mac. IDE hard drives, SCSI hard drives, CD-ROM drives, DVD drives, USB mice, USB keyboards, USB cameras, USB scanners, Firewire hard drives, etc. all can work. Also, quite a few PCI/AGP cards will work with ROM flashing and/or Mac drivers. Did you want to be able to use your PC case or something?


We all know that M$ is an evil monopoly but I think the reason why they're a monopoly is because Apple refused to compete with microsoft on the commodity PC platform. For years microsoft had no decent rival on platform that brought computing to the masses. OS2? I was a joke at best. Apple had (and has) decent software, but until they grow some balls and decide to play with the big boys.

Read some history.

We see the effect and penetration that Linux is developing on the desktop in the Red Hat and SuSe form, and that is fighting against the established monopoly. This proves that there is, and probably always has been, a market for a real alternative to Windows for existing windows users, but which has been left sadly vacant for years.

Linux has made penetration in the server market. Penetration in the desktop market is marginal. If you find a large number casual computer users worldwide that switched from Windows to Linux for general office/personal work, I'll be amazed. This isn't to say that Linux isn't up to the task, but it isn't AverageJoe's desktop OS.

Had Apple decided to stop making hardware and just sold software, perhaps we would not be in the trouble we are now in regarding MS vs DOJ etc.

Apple is and always has been a hardware company. I don't see how having a hardware company switch to just making their one major software product would do them any benefit. Also, how can you blame MS' illegal activities on Apple? MS bullies people out of markets and tries to control them. Remember Netscape? Microsoft realized the missed the boat on an Internet browser so they gave IE away free and strong-armed manufacturers into not being able to ship their computers with NS installed. The fault lies in MS, not Apple.

Microsoft may be evil, but Apple could be accused of having done nothing to stop it, when perhaps they were the only ones who could have.

Apple makes a good OS and doesn't force it on anyone. MS makes a crappy OS and crams it down everyone's throats. Again, you can't blame Apple for MS' actions.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[MasterOfMuppets]

I moved from a PC=-based setup to a G4. Unplugged my Korg 1212 card, plugged it in the Mac, installed drivers and Logic, and I've never looked back since in terms of increased performance and stability, and general user satisfaction. Well worth the estimated 20% extra price premium.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[lemkebeth]

You wrote:

People want a cheaper computer and the first company to make a decent $200 box (Sony? Panasonic? other?) will sell a million.

You do remember eMachines don't you? PC makers (the ones that survived) have started to learn the ever decreasing prices strategy doesn't work. Why? They can't make a profit at it when each manufacture keeps cutting prices.

FWIW, Apple sells lots of machines a year and sells more than Gateway. Gateway has a large market share in the US but, that is the only place they sell now.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[Anonymous Coward]

Right now Apple may be earning money from the hardware, but they will earn a lot more money from selling software (OS X I mean)!!!

You mean like IBM (OS2), Be (BeOS), and NeXT (NeXTSTEP) did?

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[Anonymous Coward]

How is changing the function of a single button to involve the use of a button and a modifier key "elegant" in any way, shape, or form? It requires two separate devices instead of one.

Gosh, Colon, you're right. Apple should ship their machines with 2-button mice for the sake of all those people who prefer not to even have a keyboard plugged into their computer.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[ThaReetLad]

Apple may be a hardware company but they shouldn't be. In essence all they do is assemble expensive PC's which will run their software. In that sense they're like an expensive Dell who also produce software. The key factor is that it is not the hardware which sells Macs except to the ultra fashion victim who wants a snazzy looking computer, but the software. You may say that apple makes more than computers and software, iPod for example, but so does M$ (joysticks, mice, XBox, etc) and they are still a software company.

Your point about being able to import much of my PC hardware into a Mac box is missing the point. I want to able able to run windows and MacOS side by side on the same hardware like I do with Windows and Linux. My point is that there is a market for MacOS on x86 and Apple is being foolish by not meeting that demand. The thrust of my argument about Apple ducking their responsibilities was not that they can be blamed for M$'s excesses, but that had MacOS been a true option for a desktop OS without requiring a whole new set of hardware, and the possibility of trying it out before you make the big change, then Microsoft may never have been able to establish the monopoly that they now have. If OEMs and end users could have switched from M$ by simply installing a new OS then Microsoft's bully boy illegal practices would have had a serious negative effect on their user base and thus profit margin. We are now seeing this kind of effect where large bodies like European and other governments are considering Linux and the BSDs for desktops in light of the new licensing regime that Microsoft is trying to impose.

The reason I mentioned Linux as getting some penetration is that despite obviously not being a great desktop OS for your Average Joe user it is STILL making progress. This shows that IF MacOS was available for x86, THEN lots of people would at least try it out, and perhaps stick with it. What I am trying to say is that MacOS for x86 could be a serious threat to Microsofts monopoly

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[mbbac]

Apple will never seduce Windows users while their investment in hardware cannot be transported over.

I'm living proof they will.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[nonsuchworks]

Apple will never seduce Windows users while their investment in hardware cannot be transported over.

Considering that most non-tech-savvy consumers never upgrade the OS that comes installed on their systems, I'd say you're wrong here. If most PC buyers "upgrade" to entirely new systems -- and they do -- Apple's model makes perfect sense.

Had Apple decided to stop making hardware and just sold software, perhaps we would not be in the trouble we are now in regarding MS vs DOJ etc.

An old lament. Yes, had Apple listened to Bill Gates back in the 80s and licensed the Mac OS, things would be very different. But that didn't happen, and today it would be suicide for Apple to compete with Microsoft in the x86 OS market.

You want the Mac OS, you're gonna have to get a Mac. Simple as that.

Microsoft may be evil, but Apple could be accused of having done nothing to stop it, when perhaps they were the only ones who could have.

Apple naively (and, to be fair, greedily) thought that building a superior (if expensive) product would be enough to ensure victory in the market place. Turns out businesses were far more interested in cheap commodity hardware running a POS operating system than in expensive proprietary hardware running a really good OS.

Re:I won't move to Mac. Make Mac move to me

[ThaReetLad]

So you're a freak of nature. That doesn't prove anything. :p

Re:Migration from linux?

[mezzin]

They just miss crossover office and supply you with wine with isn't prime time yet. Take xandros os that is much better ;-)

Re:All my files?

[sirinek]

If you are writing custom scripts to do stuff like connect to servers automatically on bootup, then you are not in the majority of users who dont know how to move their stuff over from one computer to another, and are not one of the people being targeted with this product.

Re:All my files?

[great om]

there is a version of microsoft's media player for OS X, I've used it to watch wmv.
it is supposed to work fine with wma too

USB??

[twoslice]

Why use USB when one can use 10/100Mbs Ethernet? It goes a lot faster than USB and all you would need to sell is a cheap X-over cable.

Re:USB??

[Mwongozi]

Because most Mom & Pop PC users will not have an ethernet interface. A special USB cable to allow host-to-host is cheaper than bundling an ethernet card, which a lot of users would not know how to fit anyway.

Re:USB??

[twoslice]

Well a lot of "Mom & Pop PC users" may not have USB either.
Have you ever transfered the contents of an entire drive using USB? That 12 Mb/s spec for USB that I see bantied about is a load of horse crap. Before the drive contents get shuttled across "Mom & Pop" will be a few years older, and at their age I think it would be worth it to them to splurge on the $10 Ethernet card.

Re:USB??

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

Well a lot of "Mom & Pop PC users" may not have USB either
All new macs have USB, though most have Ethernet also, an honest to goodness 10Base-T port (anyone else remember AAUI? lets make it harder to connect to Ethernet, but easier to connect my Mac to that 10Base-5 line that I run...). PCs of the last couple years are more likely to have USB than Ethernet. UHCI controllers are damn cheap, and have come standard on the motherboard of every PC I've seen in the last 3 years.

To use the (self ironic) Pearl Jam song title, "This is not for you". This is for folks who do not know that the image that is their desktop is a a bitmap and how to convert it to a mac image file and put it in a place to be used as the Mac desktop. This is for folks who don't know where their Windows desktop directory is and how to copy stuff to their mac home directory, where they also don't know its location. This is for folks who don't know what linefeeds are and how to convert them. (Hmm, just came over me, does OS X use classic Mac linefeeds, or UNIX style?) This is for folks who don't know where their bookmarks file is on IE and how to convert that over to their shiny new mac. Most importantly, this is for folks who don't care and don't really care to learn. They just want stuff done. By and large, the folks on Slashdot like doing stuff like this, and like learning. Anytime there comes a device that obviates the need for learning, they scratch their heads and wonder "why bother? I can do . . ." yes, you can do. But this is not for you.

Unfortunately the doc is light on the technical side. USB only allows one controller and one host, everything else is a passive device. I wonder how they get this stuff to work, my guess is the PC is the real controller, and the hardware fakes some stuff out to make the mac export its hard drive as a target device, and essentially copy stuff to the new drive. Anyone with more details?

Re:USB??

[Anonymous Coward]

UHCI controllers are damn cheap, and have come standard on the motherboard of every PC I've seen in the last 3 years.

In the last three years. Right. Now, why would a typical non-poweruser be upgrading a three year old machine? My parents stuck with a 486SX until 1999, at which point I upgraded my machine and handed down my old P133 to them. They've since acquired a Celeron-600 (with onboard network card), and the P133 has been handed down to my grandparents.

In short, USB cables may not be of much use to a lot of people who might be upgrading only because their old machine has worn out or is too slow to run something they need.

Re:USB??

[am 2k]

Hmm, just came over me, does OS X use classic Mac linefeeds, or UNIX style?

Both, or rather, all three. Apple recommends that all apps should be able to read all three types of line endings (\r, \n, \r\n). When writing, Cocoa apps usually use \n, while Carbon apps use \r (BBEdit does all three though).

Re:USB??

[TiMac]

And even better, with some Macs (TiBook for sure, don't know about others), you don't even need the X-over cable...any patch cable will do due to its autosensing Gigabit ethernet port.

I often use this feature to transfer from machine to machine, though for Mac --> Mac transfers, Firewire Target Disk Mode is awesome.

Re:All my files?

[polin8]

though if you have to wonder about your game (programs) moving and working, maybe you are.

59 bucks!?!

[cenonce]

I be more inclined to buy a switch for 50 bucks and a couple of ethernet cables. Far more useful in the long run!

Isn't that what the heck Samba is for anyway!?!

-A

If apple had a brain..

[mumblestheclown]

If apple had the sense god gave a marshmallow, it would make the migration software free.

Re:If apple had a brain..

[Anonymous Coward]

That's phase 2.

1) Let 3:d party make kick-ass application.

2) Bankrupt third party by including functionality in OS.

Re:If apple had a brain..

[Jucius Maximus]

"If apple had the sense god gave a marshmallow, it would make the migration software free."

Free?!? Think about it ... if a person does not know how to tranfer files from one machine to another using CD-Rw or Zip disks, they probably won't be able to find the download site, download the file, find the file they downloaded on their hard drive, run it, and get it to work.

No, they need a shiny boxed package with a CD that they put into the machine and run. And they need a thick manual with pretty pictures that tells them how to plug the usb cable into both machines.

Re:If apple had a brain..

[Anonymous Coward]

Not free as in "free download". Free as in, "Salesperson asks if you're a switcher, if so then if you want he'll throw in this CD with "Switch Software" on it. That sort of free. Man you need to get out more if you think free only can apply to downloads...

Anything for Penguin Masses?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Is there anything like this in the works for the penguin masses?

Yes! It's called dual boot. Mount the windows partition, and everything is there!!

Re:Anything for Penguin Masses?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, the question was more along the lines of a simple solution for average-joe-users, but I generally don't think the Slashdot community is very in touch with average-joe-users, as demonstrated by the parent.

It's easy to change

[Ikoma Andy]

After, the alternative is staying with Microsoft. That's a lot of motivation to change.

You're not thinking like a 'user'

[splateagle]

judging by the posts so far most of you are missing the point here: this isn't aimed at those of us who could cope with the (ahem) complexities of copying files onto a CDR, it's aimed at Mr. and Mrs. Joe User - people who just want their computer to work, but bought a Windozer first time 'round.

These people are Apple's target audience with the whole Switch campaign (of which this gizmo is a devlopment). Chances are that if you're the kind of user who can do this for yourself (and lets face it copying files ain't rocket science) you'll already have made the switch (assuming you're not a: happy with what you've got and/or b: convinced that the hardware is too expensive... but I'm not going *there*)

Re:You're not thinking like a 'user'

[Anonymous Coward]

this isn't aimed at those of us who could cope with the (ahem) complexities of copying files onto a CDR

OooOOOOooo, you're just sooo l337, aren't you Mr. Linux guy!

Tell me now, did you read the article? It mentions that moving preferences (such as ISP dial-up info) over is also part of the deal. It's more than just copying files.

Also, did it ever occur to you that people might use this not because they are too ignorant to copy files and settings, but because they think it's a hassle and would rather spend time doing something else?

Get a Crossover Cable

[1000101]

I have an XP box and an iBook. Go buy a crossover CAT 5 cable and use AIM/DirectConnect/or any other file sharing program out there. It's alot cheaper that way too. And if you have 100bT NIC's in both machines it's alot fast than USB as well. :)

Re:Get a Crossover Cable

[wrt]

don't even need one. The ibook ethernet card can autosense, so you can get by with just a plain ethernet cable.

Re:Get a Crossover Cable

[Steve Cowan]

Just to add to this: all Macs which have been made in the last couple of years (basically since the Ti PowerBook) have an autosensing ethernet port that discerns whether you are connected to a hub/switch or peer-to-peer. This is yet another quiet Apple innovation which has since appeared all over the place on NICs, switches, etc.

(OK, maybe it's just a great idea more than an innovation, but it's certainly worth mentioning.)

I'd like to see it handle Outlook .pst files

[irishkev]

Good luck!

Pause...

I just checked and NOPE it won't migrate Outlook crap. I didn't think so. Those files are a nightmare.

From their faq.

Does Move2Mac migrate email?
Move2Mac will move and convert the address book and POP3 settings for Outlook Express on the PC to Mac OS X 10.2 Mail.

Outlook Express DOES NOT MEAN Outlook 2000!

Re:I'd like to see it handle Outlook .pst files

[nbvb]

'sok.

Just copy over the PST files to your Mac and run this:

Outlook 2001 for Mac

--NBVB

Re:I'd like to see it handle Outlook .pst files

[WeirdKid]

Many people have had success converting pst files (and many other proprietary formats) to standard formats using Emailchemy and a procedure described in the user docs.

(I hate to perpetuate UCP's on slashdot, so mod me down if necessary, but I thought this would be helpful to the discussion.)

Re:I'd like to see it handle Outlook .pst files

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Can the iApps import from Outlook for mac?
If so, I might just have to find myself a copy of the Outlook for Mac demo ;)

Re:I'd like to see it handle Outlook .pst files

[nbvb]

No, the iApps can't, but Outlook for Mac is free --- no demo needed, it's a free (as in, no charge, not Linux weenie-waving Free) app (Unlike its Windows counterpart).......

It's only a Classic app though. Sucktitude on Microsoft's part..... Rumor has it the next edition of Entourage will have Exchange (and therefore, PST) support built-in...

Re:I'd like to see it handle Outlook .pst files

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Free? (after following the link). Well, I'll be damned. Wonder why it's free all of a suddern (or has it been free for a while?).

I suspect that if they do release it for OS X, it won't be free any longer.

I really need a native OS X solution though. But it's still handy do know I spose. MAy still be of use when exporting etc.

Why is this a problem?

[Observer]

Surely MS-Office for Windows and MS-Office for Mac can interoperate without trouble?

(Ducks and runs)

Re:Why is this a problem?

[mj_1903]

They sure can, but they are discussing the ability to transfer files from your beige box to your new iMac, something that doesn't require translation fortunately. Otherwise, us Mac users would be screwed. :-(

Re:Why is this a problem?

[BlueGecko]

I'm not quite sure what you're driving at, but both versions of Office interpolate very well. I have never, ever sent a Word document to a colleague that he could not open, even when I use extremely advanced features, and similarly have never had any problem opening any Word document (except that an embedded WMA file would not play for obvious reasons). Ditto for Excel and PowerPoint, and again, even for very complex documents.

Definitely for newbies

[jukal]

I would believe 99.5% of Slashdot readers handle the task much better, faster and with more choices without the softare.

Select the music, photos, files and folders to move, so your new Mac isn't cluttered with unwanted files. Eliminates the hassles. Transferring data to a new computer can be tricky. Move2Mac does it safely and securely, freeing you from any hassles.

I don't know, but based on the marketing speech, there is not much "intelligence" in this software. The reason why it sounds easy, safe and secure for the Joe Average, is probably the fact that it is marketed as a software created just for this "single task" and it is therefore much more easy to buy and understand it.

Re:Definitely for newbies

[glh]

I don't know, but based on the marketing speech, there is not much "intelligence" in this software. The reason why it sounds easy, safe and secure for the Joe Average, is probably the fact that it is marketed as a software created just for this "single task" and it is therefore much more easy to buy and understand it.

Yes, the software is definitely for Joe Average. However, that is what sells. Things that are simple and easy and don't require any intelligence on the part of the user. That is why Linux has such a hard time being adopted by the AOL population-- they're not L33T or anywhere close to it.

For instance, I had to explain to my mother-in-law the other day what a web browser was as opposed to "AOL". She just couldn't understand the concept that AOL provides the internet connection and that she could use any "browser" that she wanted (something wasn't showing up right on a site she was using so I told her to try it with IE). The thing was, she didn't WANT to know anything outside her AOL sandbox. All she wanted was for her "pictures to work". On that same note, I think this mac switch software is ingenius! If it weren't for the high price of Mac's, it may be the "silver bullet".

Running Microsoft Windows on Mac OS

[yerricde]

When Apple figure out how to get Windows apps working on MacOS (don't think it'll happen myself)

Connectix has already figured this out. Buy the Virtual PC 5 emulator for Mac OS.

Re:Running Microsoft Windows on Mac OS

[IamTheRealMike]

No, virtual PC doesn't count, it's slow, doesn't integrate very well with the host environment, and of course you still need Windows. That last point is the killer - why should you have to pay for a copy Windows just so you can run your old apps slowly with virtually no integration? And of course you have to pay for Virtual PC too. You might as well use Windows. Rules it out for business use as well of course.

Re:Running Microsoft Windows on Mac OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, you've never actually bought Virtual PC have you? Just downloaded the "DOS" version from Kazaa, right? If you actually *buy* it, it comes with preloaded disc images for Windows98, Windows2000, etc., licensing included.

Re:Running Microsoft Windows on Mac OS

[Saint Fnordius]

You misunderstand the PURPOSE of VirtualPC. It's good for slowly weaning you off of your Microsoft addiction, and getting you addicted to MacOS X applications instead.

The other purpose is to run those niggling little programs that the Accounting and IT trolls insist on installing. Let them plop into the VPC pseudocomputer, and leave them inactivated.

Virtual PC is a boon to Mac heads stuck with clueless, yet gullible IT departments like mine.

Sleeping Keyboard Troll

[Kalak]

Where is our obligatory troll from the user who won't buy a Mac because of the keyboard. Afterall, he's a long time "UNIX" user. Can't have an OS X posting w/o him. He must be asleep. Did ucontrol finally get him to look for something else to rant about, like the number of mouse buttons?

It is actually pretty cool.

[stinkwinkerton]

I used it when I got my laptop to copy all my mail, dialup, desktop settings to my laptop. It ended up catching all that crud I always forget. Laptop and desktop both have the same "feel" now at about 1/4 the time for a setup (win2k to WinXp.) No, it didn't copy games and applications, but it copied the settings for some if not most of the apps... I can't remember if it copied my PC Anywhere stuff but I think it did. It definately copied all my playlists and MP3's. Just tell it what you want moved or not then let it do its thing. (Downside: USB1 was slower than molasses in January.)

AutoCAD

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd really like to move to either OS X or Linux, but until AutoCAD gets ported to either of them (or an emulator can handle AutoCAD 2000 or higher), there's no way I'm switching.

Oh, and ArchiCAD is good, but it's just not the industry standard.

PC-users ???

[__aahlyu4518]

Sounds cool... I'm a pc-user, and I use Linux on it... Does this software work then or is it just like the PC-virus thing... They actually mean MS-Windows but they call it PC.

Another thing... It WOULD be cool to have an import thing for MS-Windows users who are installing Linux on their PC. Don't need new hardware so that's alot cheaper :-) That's one of the big hurdle's to switch... If I switch to a Mac and don't like it, I can't install MS-windows (I CAN install Linux, I know, but usually that's not where people come from) on it.

There is actually some work done by the Mandrake people... You can import the fonts (one of those, 'dmn, Linux is buttugly' features) from your Windows partition.

Re:PC-users ???

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

As the many posts above suggest: If you can install Linux, then you probably don't need or want this software.

Re:+1: Use of '$' in stead of 'S' in 'MS'.

[andy_geek]

One takes ones Karma where one can get it. Just wait until Sun pisses me off one day: the $'s in Sun Solaris make me salivate.

The market is small businesses?

[ianscot]

This is probably mostly for migrating your small office over? It sure can't be aimed at individuals in the slashdot audience; who here's intimidated by moving desktop images, you know? (Who even cares?) But I could see it if you were the IT guy, trying to make the move for your office.

This'd go in your grab-bag of tools with other utilities. The licensing packs hint at who they're really intending to sell to, too; it starts at a 5-user pack.

Penguin masses

[wheany]

Is there anything like this in the works for the penguin masses?

It would never get done. First of all: Nothing on Linux is easy. Second: When when you finally decide something like this needs to be done, you'll spend the next 2 years arguing about open formats and extendability just in case you need to migrate from Linux to BSD in the future. Third: You'll probably name it something like Gnuve2Gnuc...

Re:Penguin masses

[NeuroManson]

Then what someone NEEDS (literally) to do, is to come up with a Linux distro that basically imports all settings from the Windows partition (ClonuX, anyone?), that with as many clicks nessesary (maybe one) over the default idiot proofed installation setups, allows Windows users to effortlessly make the transition to Linux...

I use it myself under VMWare, with Lycoris... They don't have the "Import your Windows settings" option either, but I seriously doubt it would be that difficult... In the even there's some Linux geeks who refuse to, I thereby use the "DeeDee Defense": You won't do it, because you can't!

There, I predict the arrival of such a Linux installation package that will do what I asked, within the next three weeks...

ratings

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm quite sure that if someone on /. said the same thing about a linux distribution, the comment would get a 0 flamebait score. Instead, it gets a 2.

Move to Linux on the same box

[hey]

Of course, with Linux - unlike the Mac - you can
install it on a new partition and mount your
old PC stuff inside Linux. No need to copy it to
the Linux side ever.

Re:Move to Linux on the same box

[Anonymous Coward]

You _can_ do that with a Mac. I have been for years. The Mac reads FAT partitions quite well in my opinion, but I am not entirely sure about whether it reads NTFS or not. Macs have been able to do that since OS 6.0.7 IIRC (that's the one on my Classic and it reads FAT just fine). The only problem with older Macs is that they use SCSI. All of the newer ones (iMac and newer) use IDE by default, so even that isn't a problem anymore.

VirtualPC

[Perianwyr Stormcrow]

Connectix' Virtual PC will run all those little, random windows applications very nicely.

Just about the only thing you can't do on Virtual PC is play very heavy games- but you're doing that on your Mac natively, right?

Please...

[Gruneun]

Give me a break. Part of Apple's problem is that they put a halt to third-party clones, which lowered the all-around cost for Macs. The only reason that Apple sells anything is because there are Mac-cult fanatics and people who are attracted to shiny metal and colored plastic.

Don't get me wrong and assume this was meant as flamebait. Macs are great machines, but they just aren't great enough to justify their price. If they were proportionally more powerful, or priced even remotely close to a bland, beige PC, we would have a third Mac in our house.

Re:Please...

[constantnormal]

The clones did not lower the cost of Macs to Apple -- only to consumers. Apple was paying R&D expenses for the cloners -- nearly 100% of the software R&D was paid for by Apple.

The idea was that the existence of cheaper clones would bring over Wintel converts and expand the Macintosh marketplace. Instead of capturing market share from the Wintel world, the clones were cannibalizing Apple's own markets.

So Apple was in the position of subsidizing (via software R&D and product direction) the cloners, only to lose revenue to them. Apple and the cloners cannot both survive in such a scenario.

While it would have been nice for Apple to have been able to support a clone market segment (I bought a very nice Power Computing box that still works today), it just didn't work out.

And I don't mean to portray this as an entirely civil business decision -- the manner in which Apple backed out of their stated position of supporting a clone market for Macs was pretty slimy. But in hindsight it was necessary to save the company.

Macs have a lot of problems (the most significant of which will hopefully be solved by getting away from Motorola cpus) to go with their strengths, but the existence of a clone market never helps strengthen a company. Look at what happened to IBM in the PC business. If IBM did not have other product lines to carry their perennially money-losing PC business, there would be no Thinkpads today.

Re:Please...

[spankalee]

This is something I just don't understand about Apple and it's failed clone attempt. Why wasn't Apple making money off the clones? Why weren't the clone makers paying Apple for the R&D, was there no licensing agreements?

You make the comparison to IBM, but it's a little different than that since Apple owns the OS as well, it's more like IBM + Microsoft. At least one of those companies benefited from the clones.

Apple should have recouped their R&D costs through license fees from the clone makers. They should have charged appropriately for every copy of Mac OS, they should have charged for hardware reference designs. Maybe they could just sell motherboards to clone makers. There are companies that are profitable that only sell motherboards.

I understand killing the clones because of Apples obsession with quality and complete control of the user experience more than I do for economic reasons. Apple thinks too much like just a hardware company and doesn't run their software side to make a profit.

Re:Please...

[Anonymous Coward]

IIRC, Apple was charging just $50 per machine, and the cloners were going for the ultra high end machines, and as they didn't have the volumes that Apple had, could release the machines before them. You could look to the IBM/Compaq '386 fiasco for a PC version of this.

Re:Please...

[scottgfx]

Quote:"IIRC, Apple was charging just $50 per machine, and the cloners were going for the ultra high end machines, and as they didn't have the volumes that Apple had, could release the machines before them."

I had heard that the fees were too low. I didn't know quite how low! I did hear that Apple offered a new deal upon the release of OS8 that probably could have kept the clones, but aparently the cost was too high for them. My understanding is that the new fees would have actually accounted for the cost of R&D!

Re:Please...

[nonsuchworks]

Why wasn't Apple making money off the clones? Why weren't the clone makers paying Apple for the R&D, was there no licensing agreements?

Apple's original license agreement, negotiated during the Sculley era I believe, gave the company a pitifully small fee per copy, so no, Apple pretty much didn't make anything out of it. Apple was able to renegotiate the deal with the rollout of System 8, but by then it was obvious that the cloning program was simply too little too late.

Isn't the whole point of switching to the Mac...

[vasqzr]

So you can get those damned USB devices working anyway?

Charlie the new Mac user - "Hey, this wasn't so bad to install and setup. Maybe I don't need this iM-HEY WAIT A MINUTE!"

You don't need it

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple has on their switch website, a rather nice long web page on exactly what to do to move your stuff from your PC to your Mac, and it's free. Quite frankly as far as I'm concerned if you aren't smart enough to get through those (REALLY SIMPLE) instructions then you deserve to have to pay $59 to do it.

Switching

[ACK!!]

This utility does seem like it would help standard issue windows desktop users who have no real idea what they need to back up or move over to their Mac.

However, more than one person, pointed out the obvious. If Apple slashed its prices by say even $500 dollars on the big boy G4s and Powerbooks they would get a lot more converts. I can see paying a bit more for a mac but the laptop prices are just outrageous in my opinion. Not even comparing them to bargain basement priced PCs but to Dells for example and you have to sit back and scratch your head. They are good, sure. But are they that damn good?

Honestly, I am not trying to troll on this one.

What about a Macintosh Powerbook or a G4 makes them worth that much of an apple premium?

I want to see a Switcher price campaign.

________________________________________________ _

Re:Switching

[bpbond]

>What about a Macintosh Powerbook or a G4 makes them worth that much of an apple premium?

That's a reasonable question, but not in the context of this thread...the whole "Switch" campaign, and this software, is aimed at users whole will generally switch to a iMac or iBook. And those machines are actually pretty decent deals, especially compared to the pricey "pro" line.

And to a poster above...no, obviously this program won't transfer your custom auto-connect scripts. Duh. If you can do that, I bet you can get those puppies over yourself.

Re:Switching

[CyberBry]

I would have totally agreed with all you people saying that Macs are too expensive, before I actually used one. I now own an iBook (along with my WinXP and FreeBSD boxen - it plays nicely on the network) and am considering getting a tiBook soon. After using a Mac for a few months, you realize that what's true with almost everything in life is true with computers: You get what you pay for.

Regardless of how much cheaper/faster/beiger/etc that PCs are, I've yet to meet one person who genuinely enjoyed using one as much as people who use Macs, which I think is the point most people are missing. Sure my iBook is more expensive, slower, has a smaller screen, etc, than my desktop or my schoolmates with Windows or Linux laptops, but, they're the ones always huddled around my screen and coming to use my laptop to do things because they prefer it. That's the point.

Re:Switching

[WaKall]

I happen to think my powerbook is 'that good'.

Especially in laptops, aesthetics matter a lot. There's basically nothing in the market that matches the powerbook G4 in terms of display size/resolution (not to mention aspect ratio), size, weight, thickness, at any price point. I really like having a 15" screen at 5 lbs and 1 inch thick.

I also like that things 'just work'. I hook up a second monitor, and it automatically spans the desktop, remembers my resolution and color depth based on the monitors's PnP ID, and the wallpaper I assigned it last, and that I prefer my Dock on the monitor instead of built-in display.

Lastly, while I know we're not all keen on OSX here, I do think that OSX got the install process right. You drop a bundle into /Applications and all personal settings get put under ~/Library. This beats most windows installers by a long shot. Tons of Win32 apps use the registry or .ini' files in non-multi-user friendly ways.

The only place I feel like I got cheated on my powerbook is that the CPU (667) isn't as fast as the competition by ANY means. But it doesn't really matter when I'm not running a PSX emulator.

All of that said, I probably couldn't do with a Mac as my main computer. The lack of software choices is a big problem.

Re:Switching

[Nazmun]

Um... it's probably your graphics chipset/card thats causing you problems with the psx emulator. Your processor is more then fine....

Also I don't buy that just works crap... thats = true with the pc if you buy the correct hardware. It doesn't happen with most of the hardware I buy because of the flexibility associated with it. If you buy mainstream hardware and run a fairly current version of windows (XP) then it's usually a non-issue.

I wanna see you plug and play some obscure hardware that you find for pc's on mac, that'll be the day.

Alot of windows gripes seem to be related to older versions of windows, btw.

Re:Switching

[jo_ham]

My girlfriend upgraded to windoze XtremePants and her (HP) cd writer stopped working, as did her (Epson) scanner.

She needed new drivers for her printer and graphics card.

My parents went through masses of hassle installing drivers and troubleshooting strange issues with their new printer in Windows. I came home for the weekend with my iBook and wanted to print something out. I connected to the printer via usb and 30 seconds later, clicked print and out came a perfect printout of my document.

Same thing goes for digital cameras - my iBook saw it as a removable drive, my friend's W2k box needed drivers and special software that came with the camera to access the files.

My iBook has a firewire port - how many sub-notebooks have those? I hooked up our Sony DSR-300 (ok, a professional DV-CAM, but it works with consumer dv hardware too) and had it working as a webcam in minutes. I was also able to capture pretty decent quality video to the HD and edit it (I was limited by HD space - it will go up to 150k per frame if you have the space for it).

My scanner was a little more difficult - my model isn't supported by (I have the ultra cheap one). Fortuanately, there's a program called VueScan which works flawlessly with my scanner connected to one of the USB ports (oh, your pc laptop only has one? Guess you need a hub then).

It will come as no surprise to you that most professional video companies and stations (the BBC for example) use Macs for non-linear editing. They do "just work". Media 100 is superb.

Re:Switching

[hype7]

However, more than one person, pointed out the obvious. If Apple slashed its prices by say even $500 dollars on the big boy G4s and Powerbooks they would get a lot more converts. I can see paying a bit more for a mac but the laptop prices are just outrageous in my opinion. Not even comparing them to bargain basement priced PCs but to Dells for example and you have to sit back and scratch your head. They are good, sure. But are they that damn good?

And you wonder where that extra money goes?. This was posted by PC World today: This year's survey shows little--if any--improvement. Dell, for example, tumbled in service overall--especially in hold times. The other big news: Apple rated higher than any other computer maker.

-- james

Mov2Mack

[Tug3]

This great new Mov2Mack-product not only transfers all your data into the Mac, it also transfers the whole look and feel of the Windoors environment you have used to.

This great new Mov2Mack installs a Freeze2Mack-app that by random freezes your new Mack computer three times a day, and gives you a blue screen at least twice a week. But not only this, you also get a free bonus Viral2Mack-app that simulates the behavior of most commonly known viruses on the Windoors environment. It sends all your most private documents to every email fount on your Mack.

Buy now, and get also free can of beige paint to spray your Mack to that color you have accustomed to...

Good, But Can Help With Older PCs

[Spencerian]

My guess is that at least a third of all current PC users have systems with computers without USB ports or Windows 98 (the minimum Microsoft OS that supports USB). This product would be useless to them, since, before USB, there was practically no common interface options available between Macs and PCs. PCs had parallel and serial ports, and Macs before 1998 had SCSI and their DIN-8 serial ports (which are commonly used now for PS/2 style connectors on PCs).

Older PCs don't have CD burners, either. So, to get your data from an older PC, you'd need at least one of the following, in order of ease:

- An Ethernet card (connect by Windows file sharing between Mac, which all have Ethernet, and PC)
- Windows 98 or greater (if USB is available)
- A CD burner
- The Internet (e-mail some files in small amounts to yourself or a friend)

Re:Good, But Can Help With Older PCs

[gozar]

Actually, Win95B supports USB...

Re:Good, But Can Help With Older PCs

[tsangc]

DIN-8 serial ports (which are commonly used now for PS/2 style connectors on PCs).

You mean MiniDIN 6 connectors for PS/2 key and mouse.

Calum

Re:Good, But Can Help With Older PCs

[Spencerian]

Windows 95B's USB is mostly broken. I know--lots of us do. It doesn't count if it doesn't work.

The iMac showed up about the time that Windows 95B's time was setting and Windows 98 was imminent. Apple lit a fire under the computer industry's ass to get USB to where it is today.

Re:Good, But Can Help With Older PCs

[Spencerian]

That's probably right, and I haven't time to check, but they look the same, superficially. Thanks.

...even easier (and cheaper!)

[NTSwerver]

...assuming OS X has an ftp server:

ftp>ftp my_pc
ftp>cd C:\
ftp>tar -cvf my_shit.tar my_shit
ftp>bin
ftp>hash (i love hash marks, OK?)
ftp>lcd /usr/me
ftp>get my_shit.tar
....
ftp>bye
my_mac>cd /usr/me
my_mac>tar -xvf my_shit.tar

Re:...even easier (and cheaper!)

[Anonymous Coward]

Neato! Look at all those commands which would mean absolutely nothing to 90% of computer users. Knowing what all that means, and executing all of it in the right order is certainly much easier than just plugging in a USB cable and going to get a sandwich while the program copies everything over for you

You should bundle up those commands and sell them for a competitive price, because you certainly have hit the jackpot here!

Oh wait, your instructions won't migrate setting to their respective applications nor does it provide the novice Mac user with any sort of useful interface since they will obviously be out of their element having just switched. In fact, it looks FUCKING USELESS.

Stop trying to look smart and think for a second about what audience this tool is aimed for. Hint: It's not you or anyone else who knows UNIX. I don't even know why you people bother commenting on these stories when all you do is say "nyeah! I can script that myself! I'm super smarty"

Re:...even easier (and cheaper!)

[g0at]

Well good goat damn, your genius has just saved my grandmother 50 bucks! It's a great thing that she knows how to use command-line ftp and tar, just like most other non-technical users that are the target of this product!

Re:...even easier (and cheaper!)

[rampant mac]

How do I ftp?

Wait, I tried "my_pc" and it wouldn't connect?!?

There's no "my_shit" directory on my machine!

LCD? Isn't that a computer display?

I can see that exact conversation if my mother migrated to a Unix based system... :)

Re:...even easier (and cheaper!)

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot

News For Nerds

NOT

News For Computer User Non Technical's

so, fuck off and die you twat

Re:...even easier (and cheaper!)

[NTSwerver]

Last time I checked this website was aimed at 'Nerds'.

Maybe they should change the name....

Slashdot

News For Newbies. Stuff that's basic.

Would you, or, more importantly, your grandmother prefer that?

Re:...even easier (and cheaper!)

[NTSwerver]

Neato! Look at all those commands which would mean absolutely nothing to 90% of computer users. Knowing what all that means, and executing all of it in the right order is certainly much easier than just plugging in a USB cable and going to get a sandwich while the program copies everything over for you

Call me tight, but I'd rather spend a couple of minutes typing in those commands than spending $50 on a piece of software to do it for me.

nor does it provide the novice Mac user with any sort of useful interface since they will obviously be out of their element having just switched. In fact, it looks FUCKING USELESS.

The novice Mac user can suck eggs for all I care. I posted these commands on a website that is supposedly aimed at 'Nerds', *NOT* on www.macfuckwit.com.

Stop trying to look smart and think for a second about what audience this tool is aimed for. Hint: It's not you or anyone else who knows UNIX. I don't even know why you people bother commenting on these stories when all you do is say "nyeah! I can script that myself! I'm super smarty"

YAWN....I seem to be in the right place.....maybe you should frequent mac(l)user.com instead of slashdot if all this command line stuff is too taxing...

Re:...even easier (and cheaper!)

[g0at]

News For Newbies. Stuff that's basic.
Would you, or, more importantly, your grandmother prefer that?

Nope! My grandmother doesn't read slashdot, and I am interested in the advanced stuff. However, that's irrelevant.

The news item was about a product aimed at newbies. Therefore, the fact that an advanced user finds the product useless is not only of no surprise, but also no importance.

I suppose you were expressing distaste that the article was deemed relevant for slashdot's audience. In general I would agree with you, but I found it interesting given the socio-political positioning of Apple's target market these days, which arguably includes part of the slashdot crowd.

-b

Re:...even easier (and cheaper!)

[NTSwerver]

point taken

I wasn't expressing distaste at the article, I was merely trying to provide an alternative solution to other /bots that are maybe not familiar with ftp commands. Infact my original post was a troll of sorts as the commands I typed are wrong anyway - I was hoping someone would point that out - you can't ftp and 'get' from a pc in the way that I described as windows does not run an ftp server, you would actually have to ftp from the pc to the mac and use 'put' instead.

To be honest I didn't even read the article, I just got the jist of 'transfer files from windows to Mac and pay $50 for it'.

Does it go the other way?

[tinrobot]

From mac to pc? I would probably think not...

Re:Good, But Can't Help With Older PCs

[Spencerian]

The title should say "Can't Help..", by the way...damn keyboards

The real reason people don't switch

[Anonymous Coward]

Fear and ignorance prevent people from changing.
I've taught 1000s of people to use computers(nerdmaker.com), from what's a mouse to developing oracle apps. The single most important element in computer use is.... fear and comfort. If a linux distro had a: lets have fun, I'll hold your hand and we'll get through this linux stuff together, instructional video, then people would be much more likely to enjoy the switch. The most important factor in computer use is the human factor.

Re:The real reason people don't switch

[Jucius Maximus]

"The single most important element in computer use is.... fear and comfort."

I think those might be the two most important, but clearly they can't be the single most important ;-)

I agree that fear is an important factor because too many people are terrified to click on some button on a computer because it might mess up or they don't really know what it will do. Because of this, they will never do anything unless they are babysat.

The main reason that I never learned to be afraid of computers is because back when I was 7 years old my dad actually encouraged me to enter the autoexec.bat and remove the remark line before the command to load the mouse driver. Then I started noticing these lines about emm386.exe and reading those readme.txt that came with shareware and finding out about memory management.

I think that once a person in afraid of computers, it is very hard to make them un-afraid of them. I have been working on my mother for some years now and she is finally coming into her own with realising that you need a generalised knowledge of how things work, not a specific knowledge of every button, keystroke, etc., to be able to understand the machine.

Re:The real reason people don't switch

[Maul]

I agree that fear is an important factor because too many people are terrified to click on some button on a computer because it might mess up or they don't really know what it will do.

That's true. Many people fear their computers.
I get calls from my parents all the time. They often call me when they see common Windows error messages.

I think the irony of this is that there is really not very much to be scared of when it comes to a Macintosh. I'd wager that there is less to be "scared of" when using a Mac rather than a Windows based PC.

Of course, this sort of file copying utility might help a bit, but I don't think we need to see one for Linux. Linux is not the choice OS for people who are afraid of their machines.

Re:The real reason people don't switch

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, we're talking about people with sex lives here. They don't want to play around with system files. They don't want to become geeks. They'd rather have the computer just work.

Re:The real reason people don't switch

[Erik K. Veland]

I can see your advertising campaign now:

NOBODY expects the nerdmaker.com! Our chief weapon is comfort...comfort and fear...fear and comfort.... Our two weapons are fear and comfort...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, comfort, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the computer.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, comfort.... I'll come in again.

wtf ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there anything like this in the works for the penguin masses?

You're fscking joking right? IMO, any linux user worth his/her salt should find transferring files from a linux machine to an OS X (BSD) machine pretty fscking simple. If not, shame on you, go and stand in the corner.

Get in touch with reality

[endoboy]

Not that your service to the country isn't valuable, but you need to recalibrate your sense of poverty (and the minimum wage)--nobody making anything near minimum wage is in a position to be buying new computers of any flavor.

Here in Maine, the minimum wage is $6.90 per hour--assuming an average of 23 working days per month, that comes to $$1269.60 per month--before taxes. After payroll taxes (FICA, etc), that would come to about $1100 per month take-home. Even working 2 jobs would barely bring in what you're making--and without the numerous benefits (housing, medical, paid vacation, etc) that come with a military job.

Your sense of the poverty line isn't very good either-- in Maine, for a family of 4, it's $23,500 gross income... your NET exceeds that

Not economical

[Silverhammer]

Blockquoth the poster:

If I were Apple (which I am not) I'd have this bundled with 10.2 and promote the living daylights out of it.

The majority of Apple's customers right now are still first-time buyers and existing owners. There are more "switchers" every day, but as a percentage of the overall customer base, they're still pretty puny. As such, it would be a huge waste of money to include this package with every single new Mac.

If it was software alone, then maybe it would work, but not if it requires a special cable...

Presumably he wants Apple to pay him. :)

[hearingaid]

I guess that would probably be enough...

Moving Files to Free OSen?

[RAMMS EIN]

``helps PC users move many of their files, settings and even background pictures to a new Mac running Mac OS X 10.2. Sounds nice. Is there anything like this in the works for the penguin masses?''
There's no need to. Linux and the *BSDs happily read your files from your DOS/Windows/OtherOS partitions.

<Offtopic> /. seems slow today...is this a result of the server move?
</Offtopic>

---
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat,
and wrong.
-- H. L. Mencken

that's why we LiKE&UsE OpenSource!?

[danalien]

isn't it so?

I know I am; you know exactly what your software does, and how to "fiddle" with it. Add if it doesn't, you just add that "thing" too it to behave as YOU want.

From this post, to opperate closedSource (apple os x, $ms WinBlow...etc etc), you need to spend more $$$ just so you can save all your precious settings for the next update/upgarde/new system. I get the feeling that maybe they try and hide most of the settings&stuff so that plain users rather go out and buy "their software that will do that", instead of sitting down and learing how to opporate in their maze of a software. Were they give you that "it's for your own saftey"--reason of an answer.

And from were I stand, this is just the tip of the iceberg, for how much more $$$'s you would have to spend extra to accomplish what Openness does.

I've got to admit, Linux/Unix's was a somewhat of a hard-nutt to crack, but the peace of mind I got out of it was well worth it (no more BSOD, "can't do this, insert more money into cdrwdrive"-stuff). It's like learing Physics or Chemestry or Mathemathics; you have to learn the rules once, and then your set, you just apply them over and over and over again.

Why not MAC(or yet)? Well, I like challanges, mac is like 4:th grade math. How challenging is that? You've got your predefinde lego bits, and that's (almost) it. I like to build my own "lego art", and MAC doesn't yet have that sort of a broad/open offering in hardware. Even though I've got to admit those PowerBooks are&look great. And if I know myself, I will proabably buy one far far way into the future; AND install Uni*'s on it :)


[Footnote] - I'm not saying "go over and use Linux/Unix or OpenSource", just givening you my oppinion of why people (thats me) use it :)

The Easiest Ever!

[Alethes]

It just doesn't get any easier to have Mac than this.

Think again.

[cioxx]

Sonar now has Broadcast Wave support. Broadcast Wave support saves all of the timecode and edit information. Cubase SX (and Nuendo for sure) has support for it.

You can save the project in Broadcast Wave (or TLAudio), and open it directly in Cubase - everything will be placed in the right place without having to realign everything yourself.

And Cubase works better on a Mac than on a PC.

Was that easy enough for you?

Re:Think again.

[darien]

Isn't Broadcast Wave audio only? Looks to me like I'd have to export the MIDI from each song as a standard MIDI file, export the audio as Broadcast Wave, transfer them across and recombine the two in Cubase. That's quite a hassle (unless I'm misreading?), though admittedly still a lot better than nothing.

And of course I'd still have to learn to use Cubase and a whole new set of plug-ins. Though Cubase is a rather less daunting move than Logic, and I guess the plug-ins problem simply can't be helped.

Still, okay, you've allayed my fears a bit. Thanks. :)

I have the same complaint about...

[toupsie]

BMW. What's up with those snotty Germans? I really want one of their M-Series cars in the form factor of a VW Bug with a 1000 CD-Disc Changer & MP3 Player w/ OGG support (Fraunhofer can stick it! Snotty Germans!), corinthian leather and all the rest of that German goodness (Can you say that?). I've got my own tires from my old car but those arrogant sausage eaters won't sell me a Beemer without tires. Why can't I get one of those!? Why do I have to pay the tire tax?

BMW is never going to have a large market share if they don't let customers buy the cars the way they want. They will just be a niche car company selling expensive cars to really arrogant, snotty people that think they are superior to everyone else. Plus I hear their owner likes to wear black all the time.

Re:I have the same complaint about...

[Twirlip of the Mists]

American Computer Workers suck. Support the hiring of H1B employees instead. American kids eat too much anyways.

You know, with all the out-of-work American computer workers reading Slashdot, you're not going to be making any friends with your sig, there, toupsie.

I'll even go so far as to take the opposite point of view. Hire American technology workers! They're standing on street corners with cardboard signs that say "will debug Java for food" anyway, so you can probably pick a few of 'em up cheap.

(Yeah, yeah. Immigrants are the glue that hold the gears of our society together and all that. Blah. I'll hire a foreign worker-- if I ever get in the position to hire anybody again-- when there are no suitable American workers available.)

Re:I have the same complaint about...

[toupsie]

You know, with all the out-of-work American computer workers reading Slashdot, you're not going to be making any friends with your sig, there, toupsie.

I think you are going to really feel silly about posting this reply. Think about the signature and go "Oh!".

Re:I have the same complaint about...

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Nope. I feel fine about it. If you are trying to say that you were making a joke or something, you blew it. There's nothing funny about your signature.

Re:I have the same complaint about...

[Anonymous Coward]

There's nothing funny about your signature.

Clueless replies to his obvious sarcasm, however... now that's funny.

Re:I have the same complaint about...

[toupsie]

There's nothing funny about your signature.

Oh well. Guess that is just something you will have to live with...

How to make anyone switch

[Anonymous Coward]

a 120 point video instructional web based index of things to do when converting to a Mac. Comes in three flavors:
old man instructor
young man instructor
babe in bikini
similar to the I switched to mac videos:
http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/ellenfeis s.html

Jingle

[Cheese Cracker]

I just can't wait to migrate the Windows startup jingle to Mac... it's just so cool... :P Seriously... As mentioned by others on this board... what's wrong with using FTP?

Switch to Mac OS X. $$$ Switch to Linux $$$

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple, Apple, Apple:

If you want me to switch you should be lowering the cost and making it easier rater then making me a potential switcher pay an additional $59 because you don't make it easy for me to move my files.

So, I ask, why would anyone switch from Windows to Mac?

Seems to me that Windows to Linux is the smart choice.

Waste of time for Linux

[d3xt3r]

Is there anything like this in the works for the penguin masses?

If you can't figure out how to manually move your files, you shouldn't be using Linux.

Re:All my files?

[Anonymous Coward]

You should be able to play your wma files with the Windows Media Player for MacOS X.

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/download/misc/winmp _o sx.asp

Carry?

[jxs2151]

I saw this: and will carry it in their retail stores. and immediately thought that Apple should let the PC users 'carry' their PC right into the retail store and have Apple employees do the 'changeroo' right then and there. As further incentive Apple could offer a pittance to take the PC off of the customers hands.

What a plan!!!

Re:Carry?

[Cadre]

While it's not advertised I've heard that most Apple stores will already do this for you if you ask.

Re:Carry?

[Anonymous Coward]

As further incentive Apple could offer a pittance to take the PC off of the customers hands.

And what use would Apple have for them? Do you really think they want to go into the used PC business?

Is there anything like this in the works for the p

[spongebobsquarepants]

Yep. It's called 'burning a cdrom' of your important files and wallpapers (BTW...that's always been my reason for switching OS's...which has the best wallpapers!). I've never really had trouble of other 'settings' that I couldn't figure out without some Windoze Wizard.

Integration == rootless?

[yerricde]

doesn't integrate very well with the host environment

Waterloo Maple brand symbolic math software should integrate and differentiate fine on Virtual PC. And don't Windows's biggest security problems spring from the "integration" of Internet Explorer into the shell? Or by "integration" do you just mean "rootless" that supports the clipboard and drag?

you still need Windows.

As AC pointed out, the full retail version of Virtual PC includes a copy of OEM Windows XP Professional. And if that's too expensive, buy the version that includes DOS and install Mandrake and Crossover Office. It should run enough apps to ease the transition from Windows applications to Mac and Java applications.

Re:Integration == rootless?

[IamTheRealMike]

Waterloo Maple brand symbolic math software should integrate and differentiate fine on Virtual PC. And don't Windows's biggest security problems spring from the "integration" of Internet Explorer into the shell? Or by "integration" do you just mean "rootless" that supports the clipboard and drag?

Hmm, sorry, don't really understand the first sentance there. I'm not talking about apps integrating with Windows, I'm talking about the host environment ie in your case MacOS, in my case Linux. Integration means a lot of things. Yep, rootless windows and clipboard integration are a good start, but also stuff like seamless transitions of files between host drives and virtual drives (in Wine if you linux drive is encrypted for instance, windows apps will take advantage of that), menu/desktop integration (so you can have evolution associate MS Office docs) and so on and so forth.

As AC pointed out, the full retail version of Virtual PC includes a copy of OEM Windows XP Professional. And if that's too expensive, buy the version that includes DOS and install Mandrake and Crossover Office. It should run enough apps to ease the transition from Windows applications to Mac and Java applications.

What about all the apps that there are no equivalents for? It isn't simply a case of making the transition easy, in many cases there simply is no equivalent for a piece of software (that is good enough, that has feature X etc) on anything other than Windows. I have IE6 here on Linux because it runs the adobe svg plugin with host scripting integration - no other browser supports that, not even Mozilla :(

Business apps usually are custom written so of course there aren't any ports available either. And if you have to buy Windows just to use your favourite apps, then MS still has you - in the ideal world you would be able to use your favourite apps regardless of what APIs they were written to, regardless of what OS you're on.

How easy would you like it to be?

[JonathanF]

I don't think it can get much simpler than a direct USB cable and some direct-conversion software. Also, if your Windows computer has a CD writer, why not just copy your documents/images/music over that way?

The simple fact is that you'd have to arrange for a transfer even if you were just getting another Windows computer (Detto has "IntelliMover" hardware/software on their site that handles this very task), so this is very much a logical solution on Apple's part.

Umm...

[evil_pb]

What about ... FILE SHARING and a piece of CAT5??

Seems like the technology to do this has been available for years, yet they want to make you pay for yet another piece of useless clutterware not to mention USB1 is S-L-O-W for file transfers, so unless you're running newer hardware to begin with you're going to be at it a while.

Ethernet on the other hand, has been around a good long while and it would actually be cheaper to buy a $12 NIC and 6' cable, be faster, and not really be that big of a deal to set up.

Oh wait, these are average Windows/mac users... There goes the Network Neighborhood. If apple was serious about this, their code would be an integral part of OS/X from the start, with the capability there for enet transfer, and a USB cable extra if you really need it or want it.

As for the "can I get this for Linux" comment ... umm dude, there are other questions you need answered first I think. Unfortunately with Linux becoming the "UNIX for Soccer Moms Worldwide" it's attracting a much less competent userbase than it used to, and since that seems to be welcomed it changes the scope of the operating system and it's resources en masse. But this is way off topic, so I'll quit.

Free with a new Mac

[alispguru]

If I were Apple, I'd sell this as a "free switcher kit" - free as in 100% rebate when purchased along with a new Mac. Apple does rebate programs like this all the time, so the support structures are already in place.

Re:Free with a new Mac

[AKnightCowboy]

That'd be a great idea if in the mean time they also lowered the price of all their overpriced hardware by 50%. Then I'd be the first in line to pick up this switcher kit. Until then I guess I'm stuck building a PC because MacOS X is definitely not worth the $800 difference between my last PC and a high end Mac G4. :-/

Sigh... so sad

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact that anyone would be duped into buying into proprietary hardware and a seriously deficient and closed OS, wrapped up in a fake candy coating that is supposed to make it look easier and more stable than a windows PC, is just so sad.

There is nothing a Mac can do that a PC can't, and at half the cost and with a longer lifespan and far more software choices. It is that simple. WinXP is ROCK STABLE for 99% of all users and is far more friendly and easy to use than OSX 9 or 10.

Made a quick comparison

[FeeDBaCK]

OK. I went to both Apple's site and Dell's site to make a quick comparison. Here is what I came up with.

Power Mac G4 Dual 1.25GHz w/167MHz system bus
512MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM - 1 DIMM
120GB Ultra ATA drive
Optical 1 - Combo Drive (DVD/CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce4 Titanium dual-display w/128MB DDR
Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
Mac OS - U.S. English

Subtotal $3,320.00

Dell Precision Workstation 530:
Dual Intel Xeon Processor, 2.00GHz, 512K Cache
512MB PC800 ECC RDRAM (2 RIMMS)
Entry Level Quietkey Keyboard, PS/2, (No Hot Keys)
nVidia, Quadro4 700XGL, 64MB, VGA/DVI (dual monitor capable)
120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive with DataBurst Cache
3.5" 1.44MB Floppy Drive
Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Intel PRO/1000 XT, Gigabit PCI NIC
16X, DVD-ROM and 48X CDRW with Decode Solution
3Yr Parts + Onsite Labor (Next Business Day)

Subtotal $2974

Now, I could not find the speed of the CDRW/DVD on the Mac anywhere. I also could not find any information on support. The Intel Gigabit NIC was a promotion, so it was free (and couldn't be removed) in the Dell. The Quadro4 is also a workstation OpenGL card, which is much more powerful than the GeForce4 Ti (which I am assuming is a 4600) and is more for professional use. So basically, buying from Dell, who tends to be a bit more expensive than most of the others, I can get a machine comparable to the Mac (I would argue that, but I am trying to appease the Mac fanatics), but with a Gigabit NIC, and 3-Year ONSITE warranty to boot? Where do I sign up? ...and for those of you that say "it just works" referring to the Mac, have you ever even opened a Dell machine? They are ready to go with no work from the IT staff other than plugging them in and setting up the Computer Name/Domain.

I personally want a G4 Tower. The price just doesn't justify buying one, though.

Re:Made a quick comparison

[ninetysix]

It's good to see that other companies are now offering Gigabit NIC. All of Apple's G4s have had Gigabit Ethernet for more than 2 years now FYI. They started putting them on the Dual Processor G4's that came out on August of 2000.

Re:Made a quick comparison

[Howie]

Now, I could not find the speed of the CDRW/DVD on the Mac anywhere.

It didn't take long to find this page with all the apple specs, including:

"10/100/1000BASE-T Ethernet connector (RJ-45)"

"SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW); writes DVD-R discs at 2x speed, reads DVDs at 6x speed, writes CD-R discs at 8x speed, writes CD-RW discs at 4x speed, reads CDs at 24x speed "

and

"Your Power Mac G4 comes with 90 days of telephone support and a one-year limited warranty. Purchase the AppleCare Protection Plan to extend your service and support to three full years."

I still wouldn't pay that much for either system. I would be interested in the SparcClassic-sized box though. My current PC project is putting one of these mobos into one of these Sun 411 cases. As soon as I can figure out a sensible PSU for it, anyway. A G4 cube board in the same case would be very nice.

Re:Made a quick comparison

[Anonymous Coward]

So your argument is that the Dell+XP = Mac+OS X ?

How about iPhoto, iMovie & iDVD? I use my G4 exclusively for multimedia stuff and its awesome. How about free developer tools?

you should re-price the Dell factoring in the other stuff that comes with the Mac.

Outlook .pst files-solved

[Anonymous Coward]

check out Outlook2Mac at littlemachines.com

More realistic comparison

[siskbc]

Now, let's do compare apples to apples. First, a dual 2.0 Xeon will beat the living crap out of pretty much anything, and is complete overkill for the desktop. It won't even help for games, really. It's more than fair to compare the high-end single-chip designs, like the 2.8, to dual-chip 1.25 Macs. I plugged in the same options you did, and got closer to $2300. So I would think that the difference is more than you state - a state of the art PC is $1000 cheaper than a comparable Mac.

Now, to be fair, Mac OS is the best all-around OS that I have ever seen. My next computer would be a mac if it weren't for the cost, which is even more dramatic on the low end (I can build a good, new PC for $750, double that for a good G4).

And for those of you who have said "save up," I don't want to! I would rather get more computing power for half the price with the Intel architecture. And, although it's a pain in the ass, I'll dual-boot windows and linux to get a decent OS between the two of them ;).

Honestly, Motorola is KILLING apple. Their growth curve is way behind intel...meaning, if apple used to have the processor lead, they don't now.

Re:More realistic comparison

[trevinofunk]

I've been tempted by the mac also, mainly because of OSX and firewire everything. So I know where you're coming from.

Motorola processors are a bit of a drag, but the rumor is that Apple will be using Intel chips in the next couple of years.

When that happens, there will be very little between me and a new iMac

Re:More realistic comparison

[error0x100]

I'll dual-boot windows and linux to get a decent OS between the two of them ;).

Well, thats my problem .. two half-decent OSs don't add up to one decent OS :) I know, I've been dual-booting various flavours of both Windows and Linux for at least 6 years now.

I've now started considering buying a Mac next time I buy a computer, because after years of using PCs, it has slowly sunk in that I just don't like PCs. Windows is just horrible, Windows XP makes even a fast computer feel like a 486, and Linux is usually a nuisance to set many things up (getting better though). I don't really play games, and I will still keep my PC around for those few apps I use that need a PC. I would rather spend a bit more if it means I might actually get to enjoy using computers again. PCs suck. And as you say, its a PITA to dual-boot the whole time.

With a Mac, all my current needs from both Windows and Linux would be available at once, without the need to keep booting into the other OS the whole time, so for me I think it makes sense.

Re:More realistic comparison

[Dr. Cfire]

"Honestly, Motorola is KILLING apple. Their growth curve is way behind intel...meaning, if apple used to have the processor lead, they don't now." Is Motorola really killing apple? Do you still believe intel when they tell you that MHz = a fast computer. Why is is that supercomputers are ranked by gigaflops? This could be beacause the gigaflop is a better unit to computational speed that MHz.

According to top500, top500 , The five most powerfull supercomputers in the world at the last update are:

1. Earth-Simulator-> 35860.00 Gfps
2. ASCI White, SP Power3 375 MHz-> 7226.00 Gfps
3. AlphaServer SC ES45/1 GHz ->4463.00 Gfps
4. AlphaServer SC ES45/1 GHz ->3980.00 Gfps
5. SP Power3 375 MHz 16 way ->3052.00 Gfps

Himmm interesting the second computer(ASCI White) runs at a lower MHz(375MHz) than the third and fourth comptuers(1GHz each).

Re:More realistic comparison

[addaon]

Because it has more processors? I'm a recent mac (re-)convert, and a CS/EE major (graduate, soon enough), and I love the things... but the motorolla G4's simply are not effective processors for their cost. The power architecture is beautiful... I happen to like it more than any other risc architecture I've dealt with, if only because I like the way it handles the different families of power processors (particularly 400/600/900). But the G4 is not an effective implementation of power. The G3 is capable of running at 1.8GHz today... the Power3 has a much, much higher IPC count... and the Power4 may be the nicest chip you can buy for any price today. The 970 has the potential to combine the best features of all three: high clock, high IPC, and high scalability. But the G4, and motorolla's power chips in general, just don't.

iMac

[Anonymous Coward]

iMac is cool. I saw my first one yesterday! I had only seen them on pictures before. I have to admit MacOS X IS cooler than I like to admit... And, that coupled with a decent CPU, decent number of available programs, decent number of available games, decent prices could at least make me switch from a Win/Lin x86 solution.

the problem is..

[Anonymous Coward]

..that BMW *IS* trying to make and sell smaller, more affordable luxury vehicles to those who otherwise wouldn't consider a BMW.

They did, after all, remake the Mini.

Over the next few years they'll unleash the 1-series (the range possibly including an M1 sports coupe), as well as a smaller version of the X5, the X3.

It's more important for them to make the sale than not and they're trying to extend their product line to catch those who want a BMW but otherwise couldn't afford it. BMW is the most profitable car company because they listen to their customers.

There's no reason that Apple couldn't produce a line of components for those enthusiasts who already have, say, a 21" Sony lying around. Anything they can do to lower the barrier of entry to the Apple universe would be good.

Your car analogy fails because other computers on the market (cars) are often sold without monitors (tires). Apple is the odd one out here.

If anyone wants OS/X because of it's Unix underpinnings, install FreeBSD and KDE3 with an Aqua look-like theme.

Re:the problem is..

[Anonymous Coward]

If anyone wants OS/X because of it's Unix underpinnings

OS/X? Is that a new version of OS/2 where they haven't yet figured out what number to put in place of the 2? :)

(psst - It's not OS/X, it's MacOS X)

Can Slashdot get any more biased?

[Anonymous Coward]

So these guys have been making this program for ages , but it only let you copy settings from one PC to another, so no-one cared (who uses PCs anyway, right?). Then they make a Mac version (of interest to about 3% of computer users) and all of a sudden it's front page news on Slashdot!!

Then we look at the Slashdot sections. There's a section for developers, a section for science, a section for online rights, etc.. In other words, sections by subject. And then there's a section for... Apple. I don't see a section for Linux (used by about 9% of computer users), or a section for Windows (used by about 99% of computer users), but there's a section for Apple. It's not even MacOS; it's Apple, a brand. What's next? Maybe microsoft.slashdot.org or dell.slashdot.org? Or perhaps mcdonalds.slashdot.org? Or maybe that should be .com...

Are Slashdot's editors being "directly sponsored" by Apple or something?

Go ahead, mod me down... That's what you always do to people who disagree with you.

Re:Can Slashdot get any more biased?

[MoneyT]

Or could it possibly be that it's actualy cool to own a mac again, and Apple is doing some interesting things, and people are actualy interested in apple? And the is a section for UNIX, see it says BSD. And if you're so pissed off about a section devoted to something that isn't a "topic" then where is your bitching about the Apache section? Not even a brandname, it's a friggen program.

Re:Can Slashdot get any more biased?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apache is used by about 80% of web servers worldwide. When a new version is released or a security hole is exposed, that is very relevant for the on-line community. Macs are used by about 4% of all computer users in the US, 3% in Europe and less than 1% in the rest of the world.

Owning a Mac has never and will never be "cool" by geek standards. Apple knows their user base is mostly made up of people who know very little about computers and care more about the way they look than the way they actually perform (both in terms of speed and flexibility). Just look at their ads; the general message is "I'm too stupid to understand all the options in Unix or even Windows, so I bought a Mac and my brain finally cooled down".

Macs are mainly decorative objects for idiots with too much money. This accurately describes 4 of the 5 Mac users I know personally.

The single-button mouse is the perfect metaphor for Apple's approach. Some people may think that makes it easier, but most people realise that makes it more limited.

Yes, yes, I know you can buy mice with 17 buttons and plug them into a Mac. You can probably also use single-button mice in Windows. But Windows is currently designed for 3-button + wheel mice, while Apple continues to make systems for people whose brains get overloaded if they have to deal with more than one button at a time. Only idiots don't mind being treated as idiots.

And that's why Apple has less than 3% of the computer user base, and less than 1% in the professional segment.

And that is why I don't understand why there have been so many Apple-related articles on Slashdot for the last five or six months. Nor why every opportunity for "product placement" is so eagerly taken.

Just to give you an example, a couple of days ago there was this story about a guy who flew around on a helicopter taking pictures of the coastline. The article specifically mentioned that he "transferrd the pictures from his camera to his Powerbook". First, I don't see why it is relevant that he transferred the pictures to a laptop. Second, I definitely don't see why the laptop's brand needs to be mentioned. How many news items do you see on Slashdot where people say "I store the files on my Microsoft Windows PC", or "I am typing this on my Toshiba laptop"...?

You might as well say BAPCo is totally impartial and maybe they just think Pentium 4s are "cool".

you fucking retard

[Anonymous Coward]

he's talking about the original PC to PC version, not the PC to Mac version comissioned by Apple.

what about my games?

[ccgr]

I think this parody video says it all http://www.ugo.com/channels/games/features/switch/ media/switch.mov

Not what I was expecting...

[questforme]

When I saw the title I assumed it meant cheaper prices on Macs for us poor folks not transferring data from a PC to a Mac. At least I got excited for a couple of seconds..

Make my who-knows-what box into a Mac, dang it!

[Anonymous Coward]

If i've spent £1000+ on a uberPC with everything, I dont want to have to switch hardware to run MacOS. Apple will never seduce Windows users while their investment in hardware cannot be transported over.

If I've spent $15,000 on a decent car with everything, I don't want to have to switch hardware to drive a Porsche. Porsche should replace the outside of my car and all the interface panels and interior with Porsche stuff, and then they'd get my business.

There are two obvious problems with this. One, the real guts of the car are all wrong, and therefore the Porsche isn't going to be able to run like a Porsche. Who knows what hardware is in the car? Second, selling you the actual car was how Porsche was going to make money from you. Now, with that eliminated, they get next to nothing out of it, except that now you "own a (deformed bastard) Porsche" and probably "think well of Porsche".

You're asking the same thing of Apple.

1. Apple makes their money from hardware.

2. A big part of Macs "just working" is inherent in the fact that it runs on Apple's own hardware and not on the zillions of questionable x86 configs.

Custom apps can be recompiled

[yerricde]

Hmm, sorry, don't really understand the first sentance there.

It was a bad joke about the word "integration" meaning "a mathematical operation analogous to the area between two curves".

stuff like seamless transitions of files between host drives and virtual drives

If you make a FAT formatted disk image, you can mount it in Virtual PC and in Finder. Then when you save a file in one environment, it'll show up in the other. (I suggested FAT because implementations generally sync the directory track often.)

What about all the apps that there are no equivalents for?

And which Wine doesn't run?

in many cases there simply is no equivalent for a piece of software (that is good enough, that has feature X etc)

That's what the GNU project is supposed to solve. "Feature X" is often a matter more of patents than of anything else. Which features are you talking about?

I have IE6 here on Linux because it runs the adobe svg plugin with host scripting integration - no other browser supports that, not even Mozilla

I know that the Adobe SVG plug-in doesn't work with Mozilla, but does the MathML/SVG builds of Mozilla support scripting?

Business apps usually are custom written

And can easily be recompiled with Winelib. In general, I'd think it would be easier to obtain source code for custom software than for mass-market proprietary software.

in the ideal world you would be able to use your favourite apps regardless of what APIs they were written to

In the real world, you have Java technology and the .NET framework, each of which exists on multiple independent platforms. Even for apps compiled to native code, once you have the source, it's as easy as setting up a partial compatibility layer to run one OS's API on another OS (e.g. winelib to compile win32 apps on unix, or cygwin to go the other way).

Adobe offers a cross-grade price

[douglasq]

You can change your PC seats on any Adobe app to a Mac version for something like $30-35 per app. I know -not free but better then purchasing full versions.

Another way to go is to switch when you are ready to upgrade to new versions of the apps. Adobe will let you upgrade PC Illustrator 9 to Mac Illustrator 10, for instance.

iBook Price Drops

[Sasquatch666]

A lot of people have been complaining recently about the cost of Macs. Having been a recent switcher myself (after over a decade in the winblows world), I still find myself asking - was it really worth the money? Apple appears to be addressing some concerns.

Re:iBook Price Drops

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh yes, way to address concerns there, Apple.

A 600mhz Apple iBook or a 1.7ghz P4 Dell Inspirion for $999.

Geee...let me think.

Even if the G4 *were* 2 times faster than the P4 clock for clock in general use (which it most certainly is not), the ibook would still be overpriced. Apple will *never ever ever* be competitive with x86 prices until they are using the same commodity hardware. When that time comes, MS will crush them into the dirt like so much Netscape.

Dammit, I was ready to do this TWO YEARS AGO!

[Anonymous Coward]

Until I was laid off in January 2002, a couple months before the whole company imploded, I was Director of R&D at a pipsqueak technology startup called Virtual Access Networks, located about 40 mins north of Boston.

We were tiny, but we managed to win the Comdex Best of Show for New Business Software for 2000, and got some recognition.

Our software was basically a web-based migration tool, designed to move files/settings/etc. from one PC to another.

The management wags were obsessed with courting Microsoft, and IGNORED my frequent please to develop the software to also migrate settings to/from Mac and Linux machines.

I suggested this crap TWO YEARS ago, and now this. Feh. I'm sending the URL to all the old execs I have email addresses for.

Jerkoffs.

-Rick Castello
Former Director of R&D for Virtual Access Networks
http://rick.978.org/

penguins

[roofingfelt]

Is there anything like this in the works for the penguin masses?"

No, sorry - they'll have to stay on Linux :)

How is this easier?

[Anonymous Coward]

So now I get to pay an additional 60 bucks on top of the thousands I would need for the Mac + software to duplicate the functionality of my WinXP machine?

Flame me all you want, but WindowsXP is fucking fine. Never crashes and has no problems. Why would I give that up at a cost of thousands of dollars?

If I want UNIX I work on my sun box, if I want to write word docs I use my windows box, if I want to fuck around with Linux I have a laptop for that. Mac can go suck a dick for all I care.

P.s. - Your mother was quite good last night.

save me

[phaderphox]

I am an american college kid who eats too much. Give jobs to non-americans so I can eat less. Please, save me. And while you are at it, take away my computer, my bigass monitor, and my 1990 buick. I couldn't afford those if my parents/I didn't have a job, so just take em away. As for the car issue.....they are charging you for the tires because they don't want them either. You take it and like it dammit! they are german tires. They are black tires. They are good. Why the hell did I even reply? Nothing I have said makes sense....oh well, gotta fill that time where I should be in class somehow.

Re:save me

[toupsie]

I am an american college kid who eats too much.

I think you need to take a course in "Sarcasm" because it looks like the Clue Train doesn't stop at your station.

Gentoo: LinuxPC2LinuxPPC

[axxackall]

Is there anything like this in the works for the penguin masses?

If the question is about migrating from Linux/PC to Mac, then the answer is Gentoo:

All time you invest to Gentoo on x86 platform will work for you when you move to Gentoo on PPC platform. Your skils, you config filesand patches will be reused with Gentoo.

That's the buity of a cross platform Linux distro: it's same everywhere, including Intel, Mac, Alpha and Sparc.

Never waste your time for that proprietary candy-enriched Mac OS X. And don't ignore people saying "BSD is dead" - there are lots of such people and they cannot all be stupid.

To be honest, Debian will save your investment almost the same way. And with some exceptions, redhat with YDL as well. Gentoo will just work faster and have less broken dependencies.

Arrr?

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, if I could get my hands on pirated Mac software (industrial-grade stuff, I mean. Photoshop, 3DS Max, Office, etc [and for you nitpickers, I know it's all *available*, I just can't *find* any of it, because I don't know anybody who has it), then I would switch. I'm a 10-year DIY-beige-boxer, and I'm comfortable using the software I have and have not paid for. I wouldn't mind paying more for the computer itself, but if I've got to choose between shelling out $^4 or learning new programs from ground zero, then I'll just stick to my old holdouts, thanks.

I guess this makes me a real pirate bastard, and voids all of my accumulated l33t points (especially considering that I'm posting AC. :P)

Re:i've seen the pc version... right...

[Grizelmac]

Oh and this cable doesn't copy programs over, just data files. So in my opinion, save yourself the money and buy something else.

---
um, that's a good thing. I'll let you figure out why.

question

[ece]

I'm just curious. Would you fight Mac the same way you do with M$ if Mac were to use illegal means once it gets to the top?
Now,I let you all think about this question...

On the contrary

[jongus]

I think that your typical switcher is going to be one of the people that's less technical than a Windows user NOT making the switch, so things like background photos are a big deal in keeping the new computer comfortable and nonthreatening.

While I agree that that it is smart of them to make the transition as smooth as possible, I seriously doubt that you are going to find that many computer dummies switching their windows environment in favor for the mac. Those less than tech-savvy generally do not question their computer environment, and would probably not switch once they've gotten used to it.

I think it is a lot more likely to have the more experienced computer user switching. A user that know what to look for, and actually enjoy using a computer.

Re:All my files?

[wayneh]

WMA Files: Yes see: http://www.microsoft.com/mac/download/misc/winmp_o sx.asp Scripts: What laguage? Obviously not VB, but most other languages yes Games: No, any application would need to be obtained in a Mac compatable format.

MOD THIS UP

[Zhe Mappel]

Economic realities for working Americans are far different than for subsidized mercenaries sitting in Japan.

Re:Documents Open . . but look funny

[davebo]

While I'll agree with you that Office documents passed from Mac to Windows will open on the alternate platform without a hitch, they often don't look quite the same.

Missing fonts play a big role. Small, obscure bugs in inter-program operation also crop up (ie, place an Excel chart in a PowerPoint slide, and watch as new borders magically appear on the move from PC -> Mac).

It's nothing serious, but pretty annoying.

Best way to migrate e-mails, especially Outlook

[didiken]

Dump all your emails to an IMAP account and drag the messages back to your local machine ?

That sounds like the best way to move e-mails across clients.

focus follows mouse

[dwater]

I wonder if you have MS Windows set up so that focus follows mouse instead of click to focus, will it copy that over?

(rhetorical, that is)

Vote for "Focus follows mouse" here :

<http://www.koingosw.com/products/slideshow_magi c. shtml>

Not that the results make any difference...

Max.

Demographics could be Apple's best friend

[Zhe Mappel]

America's greying. For the home market that means a group of consumers with different expectations about computing -- they'll want ease of use, and they'll have less patience with the labyrinthine kludge that is the Windoze OS.

Anyone who's had the pleasure of showing senior citizens how to surf, word process and e-mail will know that 99% of the Windoze shell is irrelevant to this demographic, and worse, gets in the way of finding and doing what they need. The older users I've seen are excited by the potential of technology, and they turn on to it avidly. It's criminal that the majority of them are stuck trying to deal with Windoze. OS X is a natural for this market segment.

On the other hand there could also be a future in designing tunnel-vision apps and shell replacements for older people, stuff that narrows down the gui and weeds out the extraneous, that winnows Windows into something useful for them.

Re:pet peeve

[jaoswald]

It's not 'Waalaah.' It's voilà. The last character is an 'a' with a grave accent, in case it doesn't come through on your setup (Slashdot does not allow me to use the HTML entity.)

Et voilà.

Bring the Mouse with you.

[cirix]

Why not drag your USB mouse from the pc to the mac, then download the appropiate software from the manufacture.

OR

go to www.versiontracker.com and invest in one of those nifty shareware progs that map the buttons for ya. :)

Re:Bring the Mouse with you.

[gidds]

You might not even need to download any software. I got a wireless, optical wheel mouse, and it was working within seconds of me plugging it in; no downloads, no drivers, it Just Worked -- support for two buttons and a scroll wheel is built into OS X.

(I did end up downloading a driver, in fact, so I could assign the third button, but without that I wouldn't have bothered.)

No, and why would there be?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Is there anything like this in the works for the penguin masses?"
>
>
There's little or nothing in either KDE or Gnome or any of the window managers that would be compatable with settings for Windows. As for your files like fonts,graphics and text, mount your Windows drive/partition and copy your files over to your Linux partition with Midnight Commander (mc) or anyother of the norton commander clones.

Penguin Masses?

[Anonymous Coward]

Penguin Masses?

"Penguin masses" is an oxymoron. There are no penguin masses. There are only a few Puritans hanging out at Slashdot, and then there's RMS and his fellow potbellies.

And no, there will not be a product like that for the penguin masses, because you guys are too cheap to pay and all you do is complain, you can't write anything, only ask someone else to write it for you - for free.

Talk about a wimpy defenseless existence...

I can't wait for the expansion pack

[complexmath]

I hear it includes a person willing to pay retail price for all your used PC hardware.

Re:I can't wait for the expansion pack

[Anonymous Coward]

That's something I could use! I'd love to trade my year old ThinkPad iSeries for an iBook. Damned depreciation, what an evil economic concept! :)

No, no, no....

[global_diffusion]

This was developed in the 70's -- it's called cp.

(None of the cables are needed because spending a couple grand on an entirely new computer is unnecessary to install *n*x.)

Re:Switch to Mac OS X. $$$ Switch to Linux $$$

[MoneyT]

1) Cost: iBooks and iMacs are very capable machines at a decent price, espesialy the iBooks. And if you stopped wasting money on upgrading your PC (my friend just dropped $200 because his graphics card was a year old) you'd have plenty of money to spare.

2) If you're someone who's looking at either doing windows to mac or windows to linux, you know enough about computers to easily move your files to the mac. As has been said here thousands of times this software is for newbie users who couldn't burn a CD without the instruction manual

cant believe its here.....

[Anonymous Coward]

They've been talking this up for some time now...I used to Sell PC's and Mac's retail and believe it or not the biggest worries expressed by those considering making the switch were either aesthetic or minor tech issues....Wil my email work....can I still show pics of my kids...yada yada...I think its about as worthless as .Mac but as a sales tool its brilliant...As a whole Mac's are a much better sell than a PC anyday and this just makes it easier to sell the switch....

ROTFLMFAO!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

That has to be the funniest thing I have ever read here on slashdot.

1)Name for me a single piece of hardware that isn't proprietary.

2) OS X is an excelent OS, just because you can't run it on your machine doesn't mean it sucks

3) Sure there is, a PC can't run OS X, iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, autosense for crossovers (yet), make it so I never have to worry about drivers, run Fire, they can't run most of the Ambrosia SW games and programs.

4) Macs have by far one of the longest lifespans. I see old Mac SEs still in use in officebuildings and schools. I see LCs still in use all over.

5) Everything that is availible for PC has a mac counterpart. And as the question goes, how many spreasdsheet applications do you really need?

6) XP is not rock stable. Untill it can flawlessly handle my routers DHCP rollovers and reconfigurations, it isn't solid.

7) Easy to use and friendlier than Mac OS? Right...

Sir, I commend you.

[Anonymous Coward]

A delicious troll, and modded up, too!

20% only ?

[mirko]

To be bought again :

• Cubase VST or equivalent (Logic -> 999Euro)
  
• XGFactory software interface (XGEdit -20Euros- or sounddiver -100Euros)
  
• STAudio 24bit sound card + XLR stereo in port (no driver for mac => to be bought again) (1000Euros)
  
• various soft (250Euros)
  

I think it could double the price of a basic powerg4...

rofl.

[rakslice]

>>a custom USB cable

With USB 1.x? They can't be serious. A simple crossover ethernet cable would be cheaper and faster, no?

I'm not sure what you're driving at..

[Nomad37]

... but I think you mean that the Mac and Windows versions "interoperate" very well:

interpolate
v 1: estimate the value of; in mathematics [syn: extrapolate]
2: insert words into texts [syn: alter, falsify]

Windows Audit and Conversion tools to GNU/Linux

[npendleton]

After a fair bit of research into this problem, there are three areas of research. 1) Analysis, Auditing and back-up tools for personal data on Microsoft Windows flavors. 2) Transport: floppy, CD-R, ethernet, or even USB. 3) conversion to GNU/Linux distos is the last area.

Personal or unique data I can think of includes: emails, email address books, email account settings, network settings, dial-in settings, Favorites/Bookmarks, Cookies, office suite data files, office templates, software install keys, additional fonts, games' save files, (even) background screens, audio and video files and so much more.

Each file type creates problems for location and conversion problems on each Windows flavor.

Even with perl on the Win32 platform, or a purpose built GNU win32 .exe, this requires substantial basic research. Many tools exist, but only tackle very narrow slices of the auditing and conversion problems.

The primary assumption is NEVER underestimate the users ability to do dumb things, and loose critical or useful data. This requires automation of every step. Automation requires piles of basic research. After that, coding or recoding tools into a streamlined conversion suite would be a large, unwieldy, but very useful project.

A list of data file dot three endings to quickly filter data from applications is key for recognizing datafiles. No sweat, the registry has most of this. But there are zillions of applications with data files that arrive on a system under audit via disks and email, that can be easily missed. Solution, more basic research.

Each Microsoft Windows OS flavor should be audited for distinct file lists, with location, size, date stamps, and checksums, would help exclude datafiles that are proprietary and not relevant for conversion. Each common app, such as Acrobat Reader's many versions have similar difficulties. More basic research.

Unifying email conversion tools requires a Rosetta Stone of email files for win32 and linux email apps, with unified sample files more detailed than the useful, yet incomplete file specs on wotsit.org. Where are the files stored for each app? What app/format was used? How can one tell quickly and reliably?

Email Address Book conversion is handled well by interguru.com, but not fully automated at this time.

Passwords and some account settings are encrypted and can most easily collected with win32 apps that exploit win32 security dll, but these tools are not designed, licensed for GPL automated analysis, backup and migration.

I could go on, but you can see where this is going.
Email me if you are interested in helping me develop this further.
com dot pendletonpress at contact (reverse the word order)

-Nathaniel
first Knoppix comment on /. ever, May 17, 2002
Mac refugee, MCSE, Linux wanna be

Du-uh

[billcopc]

Why is this any different from using two USB network adapters and a Xover cable ?

If only this were innovative and practical, then it might be newsworthy, but this is just empowering those who can't handle the power, like your typical 9$/hr Circuit City tech.

MATH

[Anonymous Coward]

DUDE 2012/month is over 12 an hour not under 6 an hour
shut up