Apple Gives Laptops Speed Bumps

sockit2me9000 writes "Apple released their new PowerBook today. They include faster processors across the board (up to 1GHz), Radeon 9000 GPUs, and the top-of-the-line model will include a slot-loading SuperDrive. Price points remain about the same. New iBook was released as well."

Comments

It's expensive, but ....

[vasqzr]

Honestly, no PC-based laptop can compete. Size, battery life, specs other than CPU speed....style

Now, if they'd put a serial port on the back, it comes with a UNIX-based doesn't it?!

Maybe a USB-serial converter would work. Can you say console access?

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[nattt]

A USB to Serial converter works great in Linux, but I've yet had the chance to use it with OS X.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[timeOday]

Slower speed automatically gives you longer battery life and smaller size (the battery is the largest single component except maybe the screen).

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[strictnein]

IMHO a 1Ghz G4 is about the same as a 4Ghz P4 in speed.

lol

come on now, that's just silly and you know it. the length of pipeline does not a processor make (or some stupid thing like that)

IMHO I am the sexiest man alive. But, in reality, it seems that most (all?) women don't agree.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[Alan Partridge]

"So why not buy a cheaper PC (yes, even with Windows thrown in) and install OsX over the top?"

because that would be impossible?

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[cosmo7]

So why not buy a cheaper PC (yes, even with Windows thrown in) and install OsX over the top?

and then fly around on your anti-grav jetbike.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[ninthwave]

Ok again running a 400mhz imac with Seti
and a 800mhz AMD with Seti the iMac complete data blocks faster than the AMD machine 3 to 1. So what do people mean by faster. Clock cycles. Well if you do less in that clock cycle how can you say that is faster.

If you can get a test between the two platforms that can give you an accurate figure we can get away from opinions but it is an opinion thing at this point. The above example was the only thing I needed to see to convince me, but then I have never been a mhz junkie. I have an Amd 350 with scsi drives and it does what I need it to do well.

But I don't trash macs on a speed rating that does translate into anything meaningful in performance.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[otis wildflower]

how about a bluetooth serial dongle?

Not sure if it's supported in OS X, but it is in linux...

And I'm sure there's a serial/usb converter that works, even if it's din-8 (as Apples were)..

BTW, anyone try consoling into a modern SPARC with USB ports, or are they only for peripherals?

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[ninthwave]

I will agree with the software availablity issue and expense of software in the Apple world though my audio editting software comparissions in studios with pcs and macs say it is worth the money for performance in that field, digital professional audio. In the studio I sit in front of macs at home I have my machine tweaked out to work though editting some effects takes ages on a PC. That is just the maths involved and how the processor handles them. But my money on the subject was in the AMD K6 days, I don't need faster cpu's the money for me is better spent in sound cards.

But then again the original beige G3 has the performance and a good price these days. We both are talking about owning and getting use from older machines. So value $ of our machines versus older Macs against performance also.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[salimma]

I had to use a USB-to-serial converter with my iBook last time to use an external modem with Linux. Yes, the internal modem is now some sort of USB device that would not work under Linux :(

Under Darwin you get a binary modem driver.

Any supported USB-to-serial device listed here should work under Linux. The funny thing is most of them would still not work under Mac OS X - as they say, in MacOS your device either works out of the box or not at all..

Sold that iBook in the end, I need vector-based computation muscle for my ... err... video transcoding :p Neat machine though.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[pauljlucas]

Maybe a USB-serial converter would work.

They do work. Try Keyspan.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[jonnythan]

So take a mobile P4 2.4GHz, downclock it to 1 GHz, and it's probably using less wattage than that 800 MHz G3.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[Draoi]

Some of them definitely work - the question comes up on the darwin-developers list regularly. There's a /dev entry for serial devices & also the XServe has a fully-working serial port on the back of the machine. So yeah, MacOS X natively supports serial ....

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[Skuld-Chan]

You know my Toshiba 486 Laptop I bought at a PC thrift store (came with a new battery all for 5$) will last 4 hours with the hard drive constantly reading/writing and last over 8 with the drive spinned down.

Toshiba T4600...

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[MoneyT]

Hmmm, who's condecending? Anyways to avoid that argument.

1) When it comes to comparing features on laptops, for equivilently equipped laptops mac's are highly competative. Do some research, go price out laptops with the type of features that you get on the macs. Espesialy the iBooks, there is almost nothing in the PC market that comes close.

2) Battery life. Apple says 5 hours, and like every laptop battery life, that's projected. But I can tell you that my iBook always gets 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 hours of battery life, depending on what I'm doing. The G4s that are there have the capability to play through (and I've seen this done) roughly 1 and a half 2 hour DVD movies. No PC comes close. The best powered PC laptop I've seen in that price range gets 2 1/2 to 3 hours of battery.

3) Wieght. Unless you buy an ultralight laptop (www.dynamism.com) the macs win hands down.

4) Screen, just put a PC and a mac laptop side by side, and unless the PC is a sony, chances are you will like the mac screen better. And since the screen is by far one of the most expesnive components of a laptop, it's no suprise that the mac will cost a bit more.

5) I see nothing unprofessional looking about the mac laptops at all. Yes the colored ones of yester year were odd, but the new ones look just fine.

6) Fine you have a serial port, I don't need one

7) Power. Raw CPU power does not nessesarily make a good laptop. I don't want a multi Ghz laptop yet, the heat, and the battery hit would be astronomical. 1 ghz more than covers what I would need out of a laptop.

8) Maybe one day your OS will run on PPC, then we can really compare Apples to Apples. Then again, no one would buy it.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[4of12]

Looks intriguing to me.

I'm a Linux user generally and figured to the cheap route of some x86 laptop.

But considering

1. the hassles of WinModems and XFree86 for laptop screens under Linux,
2. that OS 10.2 will run MS Office natively,
3. that it's still really a UNIX under the covers
4. and that it's cool looking and not too heavy

I'm thinking this might be a better way to go.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[Bobartig]

Back in the day when G3's came out, G3's were legitimately beating PII chips at the same clock at virtually every benchmark. The G3-500Mhz could squarely trounce a PIII-650Mhz in non-Photoshop benchmarks. It was a good time to be a mac users ;) *remenisce*

I think a 400 Mhz indigo imac is a little more than a year old, but a lack of ram can account for a significant performance bottleneck. If that things running 9.1 and has 64MB or less, it's going to run like a cow. OS 9.1 will easily use 40 MB of ram for itself, or around 23 if you have virtual memory turned on. If your library can cough up $20 for another 128 MB, that iMac will be much happier. Of course, apple shipped a bunch of machines with 32-64 MB ram, and OS9, which meant you pretty much needed an instant RAM upgrade.. but I digress. My father has a 400Mhz iMac, which had only 64 MB, and every operation was unbearably slow, since the computer was constantly swapping data in and out of vram. He was about to chuck it out the window 'till I upgraded it with an additional 128. Now, everything's dandy.

IIRC, Win98 will run relatively fine with 64 MB ram, so a PII233 w/ 64MB will trounce a 400Mhz iMac w/ 64, but I think at 128 MB, their performance should be equal for most tasks, with computationally intensive tasks going to the iMac.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[axxackall]

the hassles of WinModems and XFree86 for laptop screens under Linux

No hassles with any modems on all Powerbook models I've tried with various Linux/PPC distros (YDL, Gentoo, Debian) so far. Same for X11, sound, powerbook specific buttons and LCD backlight.

that OS 10.2 will run MS Office natively

What's wrong with OpenOffice? or what would be wrong to run MS Office (mac-os edition) on Mac-on-Linux? Well, if you really need "native" MS Office, than the laptop with MS windows will be the best choice anyway.

that it's still really a UNIX under the covers

Are you talking about Mac OS X? Do you know that Mac OS X is not the only Unix-like OS perfectly fine working on Mac platforms, including various powerbooks? Did you consider any of Linux/PPC distros, like Gentoo, YDL or Debian?

and that it's cool looking and not too heavy

It won't be any heavier with Linux/PPC - just a hundred bucks lighter :)

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[zojas]

check out my page

I ran my 700MHz ibook against my 700MHz athlon thunderbird and the AMD completed the same seti block in about half the time it took the ibook! You should make sure you have both machines processing the same data block.

for integer type stuff, the ibook is 15% faster, but floating point is another story.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[mumkin]

Not sure if it's supported in OS X, but it is in linux...

OS X does Bluetooth.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[Natalie's Hot Grits]

"Back in the day when G3's came out, G3's were legitimately beating PII chips at the same clock at virtually every benchmark. The G3-500Mhz could squarely trounce a PIII-650Mhz in non-Photoshop benchmarks. It was a good time to be a mac users ;) *remenisce*"

While I agree with the first half, it still wasn't a "good time to be a mac user". You see, when they were beating the PII clock for clock, the G3 that Apple sold was ~1/2 the clock for the same price as a PII. So you were paying more for half the clock, but slightly better performance/clock. In the long run, you still paid more. When the PII 450MHz came out, the fastest G3 was ~300MHz.

Then Apple started publishing all these Photoshop benchmarks to alter the results. Even though the PII at 450MHz beat the G3 at 300MHz in almost everything, Apple started publishing benchmarks with a Dell v. Apple where a 450MHz dell with IDE and 128MB ram lost to a G3 with 256MB ram and SCSI hard drives where the G3 won only photoshop benchmarks, and only the ones that were memory or disk intensive. So apple proudly published these 2 DISK and RAM benchmarks, and concluded "yep, the G3 is faster" then went on a publishing spree for these results... all this while the G3 computer they were showing costed about 2x as much as the Dell in the benchmark.

Hope this gives people the rest of the truth.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[ninthwave]

Good point this was just watching them process what was given and we compared total stats from when we went to work and came back which was approx 9 hours.

And it was one of those neat. Things, personally Macs tend to my eye to be smoother than Windows PCs but I am using Gnome/Enlightenment/Gnu/Linux on an AMD so where did my wallet and tastes lead me anyway.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[Twirlip of the Mists]

What's wrong with OpenOffice?

Never used it, huh?

Your post was pretty pointless, there, axxackall. It's sad that you've yet to come to terms with the fact that Mac OS X is a better operating system, by any meaningful metric, than PowerPC Linux. Go to your nearest Apple store and spend an hour or two using one of their display machines. Nobody will mind; just try it out and see all the wonderful goodness that is OS X.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[axxackall]

Your advise is pointless. I've spent about 6 months with mac OS X at my home Mac and finalyy I've noticed that I swith to it in dual mode less and less, working more and more time in Linux/PPC (YDL that time).

I agree, first impresion was "Wow! nice candy!". But then I've found Mac OS X is too (comparing Linux, not to Windows!) limiting my capabilities of doing what I used to do in OS: development of server-side applications.

As for Open Office - it works good enough. I read all documents I get from my collegues and I can send them my editions back. Usually it works. All situations, when something looks not very nice b/c of some minor incompatibilities with MS Office, are compared to same situations of incompatibilities between different MS Office versions. We found that chances of such incompatibilities are almost the same.

By the way, I worked with mac version of MS Office - same problems, although usually it is well compatible. Same as Open Office.

Re:It's expensive, but ....

[Skuld-Chan]

But you cared enough to reply which means someone cares.

I have won the essay writing competition, of that there is NO doubt - Alan Gordon Partridge

Touche :)

Nice and cheap

[e8johan]

I have to say something that I never though I'd say: "These new Macs look great! They are relatively cheap, run *nix and have al the hardware you could wish for!"

My sincere congratulations to Apple for having swung around from being a stubborn, expensive brand to become a computer supplier that I like. I will concider an Apple next time I buy a computer!

Re:Nice and cheap

[edmo]

Actually, apple has had always had good stuff like this, everybody just sees the price and doesn't bother to check the specs

Also Mac's do have a longer life then most other computers Iv worked w/
I once read a quote that said a mac has a useful life of 8-10 years, at that I laughed my head off, until I realized I wuz reading it on my PPC from 95(only thing that's gone out in that time is the monitor...)

Re:Nice and cheap

[A_Non_Moose]

I will concider an Apple next time I buy a computer!

And the first thougt I had was:

Hey! Apple (con) Cider

.

Re:This is great!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed, but for us Europeans, they have not realized that now $1 is very close to 1. I expected Apple to put roughly the same pre-tax cost on both sides of the pond. No way, it's about 10% more. To the point that it may be worth a trip to NYC to buy a fully loaded PowerBook.

Speed Bumps?

[Jucius Maximus]

Apple would never have used such a title. Speed bumps (used in parking lots) are something that slow you down when you are driving over them!

Re:Speed Bumps?

[Ford Fulkerson]

Apple would never have used such a title.

No, but the new "windtunnel" PowerMacs have speed holes. They make the mac go faster.

Re:Speed bumps?

[Betelgeuse]

Ah. Excellent. It makes sense now. Thanks.

Re:Speed Bumps?

[SlamMan]

They actually make the Mac not catch on fire, but close enough.

Re:Speed Bumps?

[duck_prime]

Speed bumps (used in parking lots) are something that slow you down when you are driving over them!

I don't know what you do in parking lots, but I always thought speed bumps were something used for getting airborne. ;)

ibook

[fuzz6y]

$999 for pretty decent specs, and it doesn't even look like a see-n-spell any more. I want one.

PowerBook G4 & iBook

[catwh0re]

All laptops are now $200(USD) cheaper than before.

Re:PowerBook G4 & iBook

[fafaforza]

Actually, the lowest model is now an 867MHz TiBook with the new ATI 9000 graphics card and a 40 gig drive. This is the equivalent of the previously midrange model which sold for $3199. So the price drop is in reality closer to $1,000.

Difference being 256MB less RAM in the new one (upgradable for $40 to 512MB), but 67MHz more in the new one than the old one.

Re:argh

[mgaiman]

You can return them. Apple has a 10 day return policy (if they're opened though, you'll have to pay a restock fee).

Must be a first

[protohiro1]

Interesting that this makes a portable Apple's ENTRY LEVEL option. The low-end ibook is the cheapest apple you can buy.

Re:Must be a first

[binaryDigit]

Well not quite. They still have the original iMac for $799. So the iBook can be thought of as the most expensive G3 they sell.

Re:Must be a first

[goon america]

or the only G3 they sell.

Re:Must be a first

[binaryDigit]

No, the point is that they still sell the original iMac which still uses the G3. So they have two G3 based systems, the iBook and the original iMac (OiM).

Re:Must be a first

[binaryDigit]

First and foremost my statement was a simple statement of fact, not one that endorses the existence of the iMac. Secondly, since they do still sell it (and Apple is not known to be a company that's fond of keeping slow/no selling models around nowdays) I can only assume that either A) people are still buying it or B) they have a warehouse full of them and they're just selling them off. Plus if you're just using the thing to primarily surf and do homework, then $300 is $300. Keep in mind at these price points that $300 represents a 30% increase in price.

Re:Must be a first

[qnonsense]

• It's not the original iMac, it's the rev. B imac that is selling for $799.

Well, if we're going to be picky...
No. It's the iMac (Summer 2001). I highly doubt it was a "rev. B" whatever that is, seeing as the Rev. C came out in Jan99.

I believe that what the original poster was trying to say when he used the word "original" was that it was the CRT iMac, not the Flat Panel (LCD) iMac. And he had a point, because that's true (see specs).

By the way, what the heck is a rev. B iMac? If you have a link I'd love to see it.

Re:Must be a first

[hysterion]

> By the way, what the heck is a rev. B iMac? If you have a link I'd love to see it.

Here ya go:
http://www.lowendmac.com/imacs/imac-b.shtml

Re:Must be a first

[stux]

The education market loves the things (old imacs)

They're practically indestructible, and work great as office/web machines.

"speed bumps"?

[pongo000]

Hey, Pudge, where I live, speed bumps are used to slow people down. I couldn't figure out why in the hell Apple would want to slow their laptops down.

Mayhaps you were looking for "speed boost" or "speed increase"?

Re:"speed bumps"?

[qengho]

where I live, speed bumps are used to slow people down.

Heh. Although the term seems incongruous, it's shorthand for "bumps up the speed."

Re:"speed bumps"?

[David Roundy]

"Speed bump" is a term Apple introduced a few years back as a punning way of describing an increase in speed (i.e. bumping up the speed). Since then it has been used to describe the process Apple goes through when it doesn't have any new computers, so it just increases the speed of each model without changing anything else (including the price).

Re:"speed bumps"?

[MoneyT]

the price went down.

As for speed bumps. True they are IRL designed to slow people down, I've also seen them cause people to fly.

Re:"speed bumps"?

[BitHive]

Maybe he meant 'speed holes'.

Oh yeah, speed holes!

Re:"speed bumps"?

[commodoresloat]

where I live, "speed bumps" are "bumps of speed," i.e. lines of amphetamine. And they definitely don't slow people down....

iBook still stuck at G3

[elliotj]

I wonder when they iBook is gonna be given the dignity of a G4 processor. The life of the G3 has been remarkable but I can't help thinking that it has been stretched out not by virtue of the chip itself but rather because Apple is having trouble getting better and faster chips from Moto (hence the IBM PPC rumors recently).

This is pretty cool, especially for the TiBook. I'm sure video houses will appreciate the superdive to let them make rough cuts on the road and share them.

Now, sadly, my TiBook is no longer state-of-the-art. I can tell its feelings were hurt: this morning it ask me if it looked fat.

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[mrpuffypants]

it makes sense to me for Apple t still equip their iBooks with G3's for a couple of reasons:

-Other companies do it too...you can buy a Dell with a celeron as opposed to a speedy P4

-I can personally attest to, after using a G3 iBook, wanting something faster. Anybody that buys an apple these days has a pretty good chance of getting hooked for good, and right now I'm eyeing that new PowerBook just because my iBook seems a bit slow

oh, and i want to bust Quake 3 out on it at QuakeCon 2003 =]

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[simong_oz]

I can tell its feelings were hurt: this morning it asked me if it looked fat.

oh you poor, poor bastard. I hope you didn't hesitate in answering...

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[BWJones]

Actually, for what it is targeted for, the G3 in the iBook is a decent chip. There is good performance, fantastic battery life and low heat production. I've been running an iBook for a while now and am quite impressed with the size, packaging and performance. Granted it is not a replacement for my Dual G4 with 2GB of RAM, scads of hard drive space and 22in Cinema Display, but when I am on the road, getting my email, writing papers and giving presentations, it is all perfectly suited to the iBook.

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[0x69]

The current iBooks use the new IBM 750fx "G3" CPU's. What's holding them back is *marketing* - the 750fx goes up to 1GHz (25% faster) with 200MHz (100% faster) bus, but Apple's too afraid of eating into (more profitable) TiBook sales to ship faster iBooks.

IBM did a *really* nice job designing the 750fx CPU. Back in May/June (when Apple introduced it in the iBook) one of the Apple hardware sites did some G3(750fx) vs. G4(Moto) comparison benchmarks. Bottom line: for anything that wasn't written to use AltiVec, the IBM G3 was just as fast as the Moto G4 (at same MHz).

Weak video systems really slowed older iBooks down in (eye-candy-full) OSX. It's far less a problem in the new iBooks.

Understand what you'll be using it for and do your homework BEFORE spending the $$$ to get a G4.

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[Skuld-Chan]

Apple is having trouble getting better and faster chips from Moto (hence the IBM PPC rumors recently).

I don't understand this, because last time I pulled the heatsinks off the two G3 systems I have the chip was made by IBM (I mean it said IBM on the chip). One of them is a modded 6100/66 and the other is a b&w G3/300. Doesn't IBM make the actual G4 cpu's too?

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[RevAaron]

I'm glad Apple has kept the G3 in the iBook, as an iBook owner. It means lower prices and better battery life. No complaints there. For what I do, a G3 is just as fast as a G4 at the same clock speed- which is generally true for all non-AltiVec apps for OS9. OS X itself is heavily optimized for AltiVec, but, while I run OS X, I don't run many OS X apps, and none that demand much performance,

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[RevAaron]

IBM makes the G3 chips Apple uses and Mot makes Apple's G4s. AltiVec is something by and from Mot only. Apparently the G5/PPC970 will implement something very much like it, a clone, at this point IBM doesn't have the rights to AltiVec.

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[BigJimSlade]

Now, sadly, my TiBook is no longer state-of-the-art. I can tell its feelings were hurt: this morning it ask me if it looked fat.

Tell me about it... I paid $3000 earlier this year for the high-end model. The same price gets you much more only 6 months later.

<sob>

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[llamalicious]

Two big things to remember here:

1. Faster G3, yes it's not a G4, but still faster.
2. Radeon 7500. You get the benefits of having Quartz Extreme now. Believe me when I say having OS X off-load all the eyecandy to the GPU is a huge boost to performance. Especially for those who will undoubtedly tell you that Jaguar on the last set of iBooks is pretty slow.

All in all... I think the Radeon is going to provide more of a boost (for the 10.2 users) than the CPU speed. As always, YMMV.

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[addaon]

Do note, though, that there are a few surprising programs which bang on altivec heavily. For me, the biggest one is VirtualPC... using WindowsXP on my 600 MHz iBook (640MB of ram) is literally impossible... ten seconds plus to open a menu. On a friend's 667MHz powerbook (512MB ram) it's more than usable, I'd say around PII/233 level. So don't just equate altivec with graphics manipulation. On the other hand, I don't regreet buying an iBook at all.

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[jpt.d]

I run a 700mhz ibook with the radeon w/16mb vram. Jaguar is certainly not as fast as windows is on my desktop, but it is still a load faster than 10.1.5 . I do in fact have Quartz Extreme as well.

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[dhovis]

What Motorola calls "Altivec" and Apple calls "Velocity Engine" is part of the "Book E" PPC-spec from a few years back. "Altivec" is Motorola's trademark, and therefore IBM cannot call their implementation "Altivec" without licencing the name from Motorola.

The vector processing unit in the IBM PPC970 is identical to Altivec. Only the name is different.

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Granted it is not a replacement for my Dual G4 with 2GB of RAM, scads of hard drive space and 22in Cinema Display

Careful, there. Nobody likes a show-off. ;-)

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Just for the record, nobody has attached the name G5 to the PowerPC 970. Might not want to confuse the two in future.

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[stux]

And that name would be VMX :)

The original codename from when IBM, Apple and Moto hammered it out

Re:iBook still stuck at G3

[stux]

If Apple would ditch moto, they could have G3s running at 1.8Ghz today. They would most likely be faster than the G4 in just about every category

Except all of Apple's core markets, like science, video, film, audio, design, graphics, etc

still not cheap enough

[tps12]

It's great to see Apple giving its upper-class customers more for the same price, but it still doesn't solve the real problem. Apple Ibooks are still out of reach for those of us who compromise the working classes.

Just glancing at the Apple web page, I can see that their most "affordable" lap-top is anything but. I could understand them doing this if they already had a large market share--there is value in "luxury" brands--but with MAC sales so low, it seems like a bad idea. As a result, the average consumer won't even consider the Ibook. For example, look at me. I was laid off when the Dot.Com bubble burst, and now work doing manual labor down at the docks. I'm in hock up to my loogies, and have enough trouble just keeping my wife and five children sheltered, shorn, and clod each month. There's no way I could afford one of these things, and neither could most people in my position. The lower classes need something affordable, dependable, and proven, and for this reason we will continue to stick with PC manufacturers such as GateWay 2000 and DELL. I hope Apple figures this out soon.

Re:still not cheap enough

[SlamMan]

If you're in hock up to your loogies, why are you buying a new computer?

Re:still not cheap enough

[mrpuffypants]

I disagree; the lowest-priced inspiron from Dell is just at $899

personally, I would pay the extra $100 to get the iBook simply for OS X 10.2 and/or for the kickass look of ibooks

trust me, these things get looks from people when you walk into a lab here on campus, open it up and it's immediately ready, then close it down, drop it in your bag and split for lunch

Re:still not cheap enough

[Planesdragon]

The lower classes need something affordable, dependable, and proven, and for this reason we will continue to stick with PC manufacturers such as GateWay 2000 and DELL. I hope Apple figures this out soon.

(Gateway dropped the "2000" bit three years ago.)

The lowest priced iBook is $999. Dell's lowest priced model is $899, and Gateway's lowest priced model is $999. They've hardly got Apple beat on the "value laptop" end.

And, like a different poster said... if you're sturggling along doing dock work, what do you need a shiney new laptop for?

Re:argh

[MoxCamel]

Be advised that Apple (well, the Apple Store) has a "no return" policy if you change any configuration, such as adding more memory or a bigger hard drive.

I know this because I wanted to exchange my 15" iMac for a 17" iMac. They didn't want to do it because I had ordered my iMac with extra memory. I had to talk to a manager who not only accepted the exchange, but waived the stocking fee. Their staff was courteous and professional, but persistence pays.

Re:This is great!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually...

MacRumors.com accurately reported on these updates: Powerbook/iBook Specs Roundup.

Very Likely
Powerbook 800Mhz-1GHz with Superdrive
iBook G3 up to 800MHz

Probable
November 5th, 2002 Release Date

Possible
Bluetooth

Uncertain
13" iBook Screens
Radeon Mobility 9000


Overall, they do a pretty good job collecting and sifting through the rumors.

Re:Apple proves the 'rumours guys' wrong

[zaren]

MOSR has been irrelevant in the rumors "industry" (in my opinion) since they completely missed the boat on the iMac all those years ago. Their "rumors" tend to come from pie-eyed "what-if" scenarios snarfed form IRC these days.

There's much better Mac rumor sites out there - MacRumors and Macslash being two of them.

Re:Oh Dear.. Here come the hokey speedbump jokes..

[sockit2me9000]

Apple, now ribbed for your pleasure...

128MB?

[Junks Jerzey]

Note: I am not bashing Apple here. I have owned Macs.

How far can you really get with OS X and the 128MB these Powerbooks ship with? OS X is great, but the prevailing opinion is that it's more memory hungry than Windows. (It's quite possible that this is a myth. Reviewers love to say dumb things like "I highly recommend that you upgrade to 512MB if you plan on doing more than simple word processing.")

I'll add, of course, that 128MB uses less power than 256MB, which is important for laptops.

Re:128MB?

[Spencerian]

The PowerBooks don't come with less than 256MB.

Mac OS X's specifications recommend a minimum of 128MB. If you are going to use Classic, that is too small--OS X thrashes as it has to swap a lot.

RAM is currently quite cheap, and since cracking an iBook or PowerBook open can be a little daunting (and warranty-voiding if done wrong), I recommend having at least 384MB for Jaguar. 512MB+ is optimum.

Re:128MB?

[dhovis]

128 is the bare minimum. It works, and if you don't run more than 1 or 2 apps at a time, you might not notice the swapping. I have 384MB in my original iBook 500, and it runs Jaguar just fine. It bogs down a bit if I have 10-12 apps running, but otherwise swapping is not a problem.

The good news is that 512MB chips for the iBook are now available for $80-100, so you can max out the memory (640MB) for a reasonable price. Apple memory is still expensive though.

Re:128MB?

[dhovis]

cracking an iBook or PowerBook open can be a little daunting (and warranty-voiding if done wrong)

You haven't done it, have you? Easy as pie. Pop off the keyboard. On the TiBook, you will see the 2 slots. On the iBook, you need to remove the Airport card (if installed), and 2 small screws to remove the cover over the memory slot. Even if you don't know what you are doing, it doesn't take more than 10 minutes.

In fact, I think there is a diagram on the bottom of the keyboard to help you. There are definitely directions in the owners manual.

Re:128MB?

[Fugly]

Actually, while normally outrageously expensive, apple memory happens to be pretty cheap right now. You can double the ram in any system for $40. Bumping the TiBook from 512MB of RAM to a gig of RAM for $40 sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me. Bumping the 256MB iBook to 512MB for $40 doesn't sound bad either.

Re:128MB?

[Phrogz]

...and since cracking an iBook or PowerBook open can be a little daunting...

I can't speak for the the iBook, but as for the PowerBook: Daunting? For your mother, yes. But IMO it's as easy or easier to install RAM in a PowerBook (G3 Bronze or G4 Ti) than it is to install in a PowerMac tower. No kidding, honestly. Much as I'd love to see Apple succeed, don't buy additional RAM from Apple where the markup is HUGE. Get your own for 1/3 the price or so and drop that second chunk in yourself.

Re:128MB?

[MasonMcD]

Apple promotion until Dec. 31 is $40 to double memory.

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/promo_d oubleyourmemory.html

Re:128MB?

[dhovis]

Actually, they bump the 256MB iBook to 640MB for $40, because you can't actually configure an iBook with 512MB.

I agree, though. $40 to take the TiBook to a gig is a steal. Especially since the 512MB in the TiBook means 2x256MB, so you have to replace both modules to get to 1GB.

Re:128MB?

[Spencerian]

I have, quite a bit. I'm a service tech. But I don't recommend users to do laptop hardware changes. Too risky to screw up, even on a Mac. If they want to do it, OK.

Re:128MB?

[ciryon]

I agree. Have a iBook 700 with 384 MB RAM, but removed the 256 MB module temporarily since I suspect something's wrong with it. Running on 128 MB only is horrible. I can only have one or two apps open at the same time and everything loads just so slow.

Can't understand why Apple still ships computers running OS X and only put 128 MB RAM.

Ciryon

Re:128MB?

[Twirlip of the Mists]

OS X 10.0 was really memory hungry, but 10.1 reduced that considerably. Jaguar reduced it still further. You can be perfectly happy with 128 MB if you don't try to do very many things at once. And, of course, the great thing about the VM system in OS X is that you don't constantly swap when you've got too many programs open. Earlier today I had several programs open at once-- Office, Photoshop, Maya, OmniWeb, and lots of little ones-- and I decided to kick off a session of Jedi Knight II. My machine swapped like crazy for about ten seconds while every available memory page was written to disk, and then the game fired right up and ran perfectly. When I quit, my machine swapped like crazy for another ten or fifteen seconds while the whole world got swapped back in, and I was right back where I needed to be.

battery life

[frostycellnex]

This is the computer I've been waiting for--everything I want all in one tight little package. My only question is with regard to that quoted battery life. I'd expect that's an extreme limit, with the lowest possible power consumption configuration. So can I watch an entire DVD on a single battery charge? I'm expecting to be doing some trans-Pacific flights in the near future, and those 18 hours would go by a whole lot faster if I could watch my own movies. For you double-E's out there, I've seen rumors that Apple is working on a new battery, but that it probably wouldn't find it's way into Apple's portables for at least another 6 months (and I presume that's optimistic). What's the likelihood that a new battery would be compatible with the current hardware architecture?

Re:battery life

[geniusj]

Yes.. you can easily watch a dvd on one charge.. I've done it many times, and I usually have about 30-40% left over afterwards. This is on a TiBook 400mhz. I think they actually have improved the batteries themselves since then..

Re:battery life

[radish]

If you're flying longhaul they usually have power sockets in the seats. At least I always use them when flying transatlantic.

Re:battery life

[Arker]

Yeah, I think you're right, 5 hours is pretty optimistic. My TiBook (with the G4 of the beast, 666Mhz ;) usually gives me about 3 hours, of course I am very hard on batteries, I always get a lot less than quoted. That said, 3 hours is pretty damn good, and if it's not enough an extra battery sets you back only $129.

Re:battery life

[BinxBolling]

So can I watch an entire DVD on a single battery charge?

Yes. Also, if you download something like DVDBackup and use it to copy the DVD to your hard drive before your trip, the Apple DVD player can play it from there, which will probably consume less power than spinning the DVD drive would.

Re:battery life

[Jon Abbott]

Is it possible to disable the optical drive if you know you won't be using it?

Or does OSX cut off any and all power to it when it isnt being used?

Indeed, OS X automatically powers it down quickly after use. All of the hardware components on the system, and the kernel that drives them, are designed with power management in mind. That's why you can get a good four hours per charge on a Powerbook (Apple claims five, but in real-world use it is more like four).

Slashdot Apple's bitch?

[Matt2000]

Anyone ever noticed how much mundane Apple news gets posted on Slashdot? A minor speed increase on laptops doesn't seem to warrant a full story.

And, if you look in the categories for stories, there are tons of Apple specific categories for no real reason:

Apple Wireless
Apple Hardware
Apple Software
Apple Desktops
iMac
Apple Media
Apple Networking
OS 9
OS X
Apple Utilities

Look, we're in the "Apple Laptop" category for the love of god, what is the deal?

Re:Slashdot Apple's bitch?

[benedict]

The proliferation of categories is pretty silly,
but ...

this is a unix-focused site to some extent. And
Apple ships more unix than any other manufacturer.
So it stands to reason that we'd talk about them
here.

Re:Slashdot Apple's bitch?

[Gothmolly]

Because Taco, et. al. all use TiBooks. Can you say "schwag" ?

Re:Slashdot Apple's bitch?

[namespan]

Dell, Sony, Toshiba, etc. releasing new laptops?

Where are the Dell or Toshiba laptops that have anything remarkable about them? TiBooks -- and even iBooks -- have a cool factor that Dell nor Toshiba has ever come close to matching. Sony sometimes does... and you'll note that Vaio laptops sometimes do make slashdot.

Dell and Toshiba build beige boxes. Staid, boring, nothing interesting. Sony and Apple -- whatever else you have to say about them -- are consumer electronics companies with a sense of style. They build great computers to.

Re:Slashdot Apple's bitch?

[User 956]

Anyone ever noticed how much mundane Apple news gets posted on Slashdot? A minor speed increase on laptops doesn't seem to warrant a full story.

Honestly, I've been saying the same thing. The closest I can figure, is VA wants to be bought out by Apple.

Still missing...

[TechScared]

They are still missing USB 2.0 support. They are missing from most of the current PC laptops as well but I don't know why Apple didn't include one if they were coming out with *new* ibooks and powerbooks. Also, one another complaint I have on most laptops including a Dell I recently purchased is that even though I have essentially a portable DVD player which can hook up to a TV/Projecter, etc via S-Video, it doesn't contain a digital out and I'm stuck with stereo out. You would think multimedia conscious(whatever that means) Apple would think of these things...

I guess nothing is perfect.

Re:Still missing...

[mlilback]

Hardware level changes like firewire b and usb 2 won't happen until next year, when Apple hardware will no longer boot into Mac OS 9. Otherwise, they'd have to update 9 to support the new hardware.

And the powerbook does have a digital out (DVI). You have to use a converter to get VGA.

And I expect to see usb2 and firewire b on desktops before laptops. I'd look for new desktops early next year with these features.

Re:Still missing...

[paradesign]

i believe you can do digital out over usb and i know you can do stereo 2.1. some mac speaker kits only hook up this way, the isub comes to mind. and i believe harmen kardon makes a usb to optical convertor to hook your comp up to the stereo thats usb and 5.1 i think. its also mac and pc compatable as well as expensive, 140 i think.

as for usb 2, it competes too much with firewire, an existing mac standard interface, ading it would only complicate the device. it dosent make business sense for apple although it would be a nice feature.

Re:Still missing...

[Lev13than]

In case it's not clear, the DVI-VGA adapter is included in the box when you buy the laptop. Same with the SVGA-Composite adapter. You do, however, have to spring for the DVI-ADC.

Re:Still missing...

[Fugly]

as for usb 2, it competes too much with firewire, an existing mac standard interface, ading it would only complicate the device. it dosent make business sense for apple although it would be a nice feature.

Um, USB was brought to market and standardized largely by Apple. You could by a mac with USB ports off the shelf probably 2 years before you could find it built into a new PC. We'll see both USB 2 and Firewire 2 on future macs, guaranteed...

Re:Still missing...

[jht]

This doesn't represent a major redesign (neither do the windtunnel G4 towers). The only major changes are faster speed and better video coming from the same basic logic board and chipset.

I'm not expecting Apple to do a lot WRT USB 2.0, really - they're firmly in the FireWire camp. But I do think they'll start integrating Bluetooth when they do their next logic board refresh/redesign. Hopefully they'll add digital out at that point, too.

Re:Still missing...

[Fugly]

This is flat-out wrong. USB ports were included on PCs years before the iMac came out. There just wasn't any OS support for them until Win98 came out. People, please check your facts before posting something as if it is fact.

Ok, you're probably right. I'm probably getting the availability of peripherials confused with the availablility of ports. Also, I'm probably remembering stuff based on my own personal upgrade path between my macs and PCs.

Regardless, I do feel that apple was the company that did more to bring USB off the drawing table and to market than anybody. When the iMac was released, USB was the only way to hook anything up to it. USB exploded. Even long after I finally had USB ports on my PC, I had trouble finding devices that used them. The idea that apple is somehow going to do an about face and not support USB 2.0 or that they grudgingly supported USB in the first place is absurd. Apple loves USB.

I don't think Firewire was ever really meant to compete with USB either. I think it was meant specifically for a few high speed applications (external drives and dv). You don't see apple making firewire mice or keyboards. It's not what the format was made for.

check out tomshardware; links included

[waspleg]

here is a story comparing 6 different radeon cards: http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q4/021104/in dex.html

here is a link to a recent story comparing radeons and geforces:

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q4/021024/ in dex.html

i consider tomshardware to be one of the best, most honest/accurate/valuable publications available online today (no i don't work for them)... i've used their advice to buy countless components and several full machines and have never been disappointed; they save me the work of scouring 30 different news sites and making my own balanced unbiased opinion because Tom's already is.

Re:check out tomshardware; links included

[jerrytcow]

ummm...did you even read the link you posted. It compares 6 different 9700s. The powerbook has a 9000, and I don't think this card will fit in my laptop anyway.

It might be usefull to link to chips actually used in the laptops mentioned.

Re:check out tomshardware; links included

[BinxBolling]

Perhaps the original poster was trying to link to this article. The article is about the Radeon 9000 Mobility, but it includes a Radeon 9000 vs. Radeon 7500 vs. GeForce performance comparison.

Re:check out tomshardware; links included

[waspleg]

he was talking about the chipsets, which are incarnated in the cards

did you read the articles? i have

check the benchmarks

Don't forget the iBook in all of this...

[rjstanford]

If you don't mind the 1024x768 display (and its a great screen, good antialiasing etc), the new low-end iBook is quite a deal. From apple.com, a 700mhz G3 (faster than PIII-800s seen in many low-end notebooks) with 640mb RAM (OSX is pretty memory intensive) can be yours for $1189. That's getting nicely price-competitive with Dell, etc on the low end.

A somewhat nicer model with the 800mhz G3, a DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive and the same 640mb of RAM lists for $1489. That gets you a very potent UN*X box with a lot of wonderful features, a lovely OS, and a massively high portability level.

All this, and an amazing attention to detail as well. Really, switching to Apple is like moving from Chevy to BMW. Sure it may not stack up on paper (horsepower per dollar, etc) but you can end up with an incredibly friendly machine that's a pure pleasure to use! Do yourself a favor and go check 'em out if you've been on the fence.

Buying an apple

[glh]

I just can't help but wonder why everyone seems to be so excited about Macs. If you ever want to run the latest game on that "other" OS, you can't really do it on Mac without paying a premium and/or having to wait forever for it to come out. And not just games, but other software too.

Dell has a comparable deal that is $999 for an Inspiron 2650, comes with a free hard drive upgrade and a CD-burner (or DVD) upgrade. Not only that, but you get some really great tech support. And no, I don't work for dell. I just can't understand what all this jazz about getting an Apple is.

Sure the Mac has cool looking hardware, but beyond that is there really a compelling reason for techies/nerds to switch from Intel/AMD based machines?? I can't think of any real good reasons.

This is really not a troll, I'm just trying to understand what the hoopla is. Please enlighten me!!

Re:Buying an apple

[glh]

What would you say is better about MacOS X vs. RedHat Linux? I'm guessing the window environment.. (does it use X Windows?). I really don't know much about OSX. Anything else?

Re:Buying an apple

[mrpuffypants]

no, of course you don't have to switch...I'm not forcing you =]

but you should take a look at them if you get the chance; I suggest the Apple stores, they are great ground for getting the "street cred" that Apple desperately needs

and finally, regarding games, that used to be the main reason that I have my WinXP desktop. Now, though, that id has released PR1.32 for Quake 3 that is fully OS X compatible, i think i'm finally ready to say good-bye forever to windows as my primary OS...I've really only been keeping it around for gaming anyway

Re:Buying an apple

[Quixadhal]

Simple. They work.

Seriously, I have (and will likely always have to have) a PC to play games. But that's all I do with it. Every time I start trying to actually USE the machine it ends up leaking memory like a water faucet with no washers, and eventually insists on a reboot (either voluntarily because it's sucking molassas, or pre-emptively via blue-screen-of-death).

I work on a linux desktop at work, and never have stupid problems like that. Why should I accept less at home? Yes, I can run linux on the thing, but then I still have to reboot when I want to play games.... kindof defeats the purpose.

If I could wave a magic wand and make game developers write cross-platform code, maybe I could fully shake the Microsoft Addiction that plagues me and gives my hardware the shakes... but until then, I'd rather have an OS X desktop to do real work on, a linux/BSD server to handle mail and network issues, and a Windoze box to play games that I can't get for the PS2 (Hey Blizzard, why not release Diablo II for the Playstation, now that they have network cards?)

Note that I'm not being super-pro-mac here. The fact is, the underlying BSD core is what makes it so stable (run OS 9 for a bit if you doubt that), but the Aqua desktop is as fine a GUI as I could wish for and seems a bit less bloated than a normal X11 server. My only real gripe is the continued default of one mouse button. :)

Re:Buying an apple

[Blondie-Wan]

No, I don't think you're a troll; it sounds like you're posing honest, legitimate questions. As a Mac person, I hope I can answer some of them to your satisfaction.

I just can't help but wonder why everyone seems to be so excited about Macs. If you ever want to run the latest game on that "other" OS, you can't really do it on Mac without paying a premium and/or having to wait forever for it to come out. And not just games, but other software too.

Lamentably, games are indeed one of the big areas of lag. Even so, there are plenty of games out there for the Mac - far more than any normal person could find time to play. How many games do you need? The delay associated with some games (not all - there are some simultaneous releases, and even a tiny number of Mac-firsts) can be a drag at times, but it also has silver linings - sometimes our first release of a game is of the "gold edition" with extra maps and whatnot, so people who buy the game right away still get all the extra trimmings without paying extra or rebuying the game down the road; also, sometimes the initial PC releases are deeply bug-ridden, but by the time they make it to us the bugs have been squashed. Neither of these is a reason to game on the Mac, to be sure, but they do at least illustrate it's not all bad. For what it's worth, I can personally attest that the Mac gaming scene is substantial enough to be satisfying. Others do disagree, but I think the worst problem with the Mac gaming scene is that certain specific genres of games (like sports games, which I don't play but I'm aware many love) are sorely underrepresented. Unless you're into a type of game that isn't well-represented on the Mac, though, I think you can find your gaming fix here.

As for other software, pretty much every kind of thing you'd want to do with a computer can be done on a Mac, and frequently with the same software you'd use on a Wintel machine. There are even lots of Mac-only releases, and there are plenty of general tasks that are almost certainly easier on the Mac than on any PC (DVD authoring, for example).

Dell has a comparable deal [dell.com] that is $999 for an Inspiron 2650, comes with a free hard drive upgrade and a CD-burner (or DVD) upgrade. Not only that, but you get some really great tech support. And no, I don't work for dell. I just can't understand what all this jazz about getting an Apple is.

Well, it's certainly true that despite Apple's best efforts there is a price delta between Macs and PCs, and one can usually get a PC for less money than a Mac of identical or near-identical specs, but that gap is probably narrower than one would think, and many of us feel it's justified by the ease-of-use alone, not to mention other arguments I'll mention at the end of this post. You also mention tech support; for what it's worth, some would argue Apple's support beats Dell's, and most other vendors' for that matter.

Sure the Mac has cool looking hardware, but beyond that is there really a compelling reason for techies/nerds to switch from Intel/AMD based machines?? I can't think of any real good reasons.

Ok, here are a few of those other reasons I mentioned earlier:

- it's not Windows, and one can be as free of M$ as one wants on a Mac (yet at the same time, one can use lots of M$ apps if one really wants to, for some ungodly reason)

- the most games of any non-M$ platform

- software and hardware integration, ease-of-use, and intuitiveness that (arguably) surpasses all other platforms

- minimal DRM issues (so far, anyway - cross those fingers ;)

- friendly to average Joes and hardcore geeks alike

- yes, you said it... style

- strength / dominance in certain notable computing applications & markets (graphics & media, biotech, education)

- arguably the most enjoyable platform-specific trade shows in the industry ;) (Ok, reaching here, but I thought I'd mention it :)

- longevity / resale value of old hardware (less of a consideration than it used to be, it seems, but still notable)

There are more factors, I think, but I believe that should be enough to start with.

This is really not a troll, I'm just trying to understand what the hoopla is. Please enlighten me!!

I hope this helps! :)

Re:Buying an apple

[WatertonMan]

Just to point out though, the Mac ports often are inferior to the PC versions. For instance frame rates for animations are almost always much lower. I'm not sure why that is, but if gaming were a high priority for me I don't think I'd go for the Mac.

However I think that for many people such things aren't a big priority. Personally I just bought an XBox and played Halo instead of worrying about Warcraft or whatever other shooter is around. But then I'm not a huge gamer. Most of the games I like are more strategy like Go or a few other more "thinking" games for the Mac.

Re:Buying an apple

[axxackall]

What kind of answer will you get questioning alcoholic people to compare a health impact of alcohol vs pure water?

What do you expect to hear in a macosx-biased forum?

Re:Buying an apple

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

I'm a web developer/designer. And I also do graphic design, photography, and mulimedia.

OS X has it all in one, and done well. Sure, you can install Apatche etc on windows, but I've developed something on windows, only to find it not work quite right on a UNIX box (which is where it will end up most 99% of the time). It just makes things easier when you know your developing on the same platform the webapp will run.
And that platform being UNIX, it also has a few nice features that Windows doesn't have (little things like hardlinks etc).

The iTunes is brilliant. I was a hardcore Winamp fan (before Winamp 3 that it). And never liked the look of iTunes...Untill I used it.
Apple seems to be carrying this innivation thoughout all there iApps, hopefully this will continue.

I also find the GUI is better, and much nicer to look at (which it important when you have to see it all day long). Of course, it still has major issues which I won't go into. But Apple seem like a company which will do it's best to imporve the OS. Unlike MS, who seem to just do anything that might bring in more $. In general, their GUI is still much bette thabn anything else around (in terms of usability and looks).

Why not Linux? At the moment, the lack of apps that I use etc (sorry, GIMP is great for a lot of stuff, but it's deffinitly not a replacement for 'power' photoshop users).
There's also GUI, which I won't go into.

...Oh yeah. And Microsoft with their DRM et. al. make me want to jump ship as quick as possable.

Re:Buying an apple

[hype7]

Well, meaning to or not, you were trolling. I could tell you were trolling as soon as I saw this:

Not only that, but you get some really great tech support.

Latest PC World tech service scorecard: Last year, PC World readers told us they were unhappy with technical support. This year's survey shows little--if any--improvement. Dell, for example, tumbled in service overall--especially in hold times. The other big news: Apple rated higher than any other computer maker.

There are plenty of other reasons posted, but I just thought I'd pick up on that.

-- james

Re:Buying an apple

[Twirlip of the Mists]

The iTunes is brilliant.

Agreed. I have a medium-sized library of MP3s, ripped from my library of about 300 CDs. iTunes tells me that my library amounts to 14.7 days of music, comprised of 4,922 songs. (Over 23 GB, if you're wondering.) The only tool I need to manage it all is iTunes. It sorts and organizes my files on disk for me, and lets me browse by artist, album, or genre. It never takes me more than about two seconds to find the precise song I'm after out of the nearly 5,000 in the library. And even with all those songs, it still launches in one bounce.

iTunes is definitely a killer app for the Mac.

Re:Buying an apple

[glh]

Thanks for taking the time to respond! That really helps. I suppose if I were to get a Mac, it wouldn't be for gaming. It seems like there are far more better things to do on a Mac based on your post anyway :)

It seems like most people that I know who have used Mac's really enjoy them. Unfortunately most of those people have been non-techies and usually graphics designers. It's interesting to see that Macs as you say, are friendly to "average Joes and hardcore geeks alike".

As far as software goes, since it is a Unix OS, can you run just about anything GNU on it? For example- will I be able to run everything I can run from my linux box on there (such as GIMP in X, or emacs and gcc in console).

Re:Buying an apple

[hype7]

I was referring to their on-line tech support, not calling in. You can download the manual, any driver you need, etc. for whatever system you purchase. I find that very useful and great, no matter what some magazine tells me. Dell may not be what they used to be, but they are still a good company to buy from.

I think you'll find there's nothing there that Apple doesn't provide. Apple's support page.

I wasn't trolling, but you didn't specify online support, you just said great tech support. Tech support to most people implies you actually speak to a living human being. Dell's tech support is going head first down the gurgler.

-- james

Price points remain about the same?

[Glyndwr]

No they don't, the iBooks are $200 cheaper across the range. As I mentioned in my submitted Slashdot story. Which was rejected. Not that I'm bitter.

I'm convinced, anyway; the midrange iBook looks very compelling to me. All the OSS stuff I need plus Powerpoint without rebooting. I'll hopefully be ordering one later.

Looks Cheap to Me

[KalenDarrie]

Considering a quick look at Dell and Gateway reveal only one laptop from Dell that's $899, I think $999, the most affordable iBook Apple has, as being well within the reach of anyone who is considering getting a laptop and can budget it.

Or is 100 dollars that much an issue?

If nothing else, Apple is improving hteir price points gradually.

Re:Looks Cheap to Me

[MoneyT]

Go use a mac for a little bit and then think about that post. Believe me, for a student or someone who isn't doing rendering and kernel compiles on their laptop, the iBook is more than enough laptop.

Actually the high end G4 is 1.25GHz

[BoomerSooner]

However all that really matters any more is how does the computer meet your needs for a system.

Personally I wish Apple would release a Handheld and Tablet style Mac. This would make me switch my software completely to Mac. I'm not fond of trying to sell an Apple based solution using Windows for the Tablet/Handheld part. Seems like I'm contradicting myself when I'm saying Apple is better.

However when I charge 1/10th the fee for supporting an Apple as compared to a PC, people tend to notice.

USB 2.0?

[Gizzmonic]

Why doesn't Apple start putting USB 2.0 in its machines? I doubt that it's much more expensive than USB 1.1 or whatever they're using. Is it sour grapes from Intel muscling in on Firewire (USB 2.0 has been adopted very quickly by PC motherboard manufacturers). Firewire isn't going anywhere (DV is the killer app that will keep it alive). But it would sure be nice to have access to USB 2.0 stuff like high-end scanners. And I'm sure peripheral manufacturers don't like having to choose between a firewire and USB 2.0 interface for everything.

Please! The horse is starting to decay

[Lizard_King]

Haven't been reading Slashdot in a while, eh? Over the last year, this discussion is rehashed almost every day... Search apple.slashdot.org for answers to your questions.

Horse is dead, let's move on.

Re:Please! The horse is starting to decay

[Lizard_King]

jeez... here's the search page for slashdot:

select "Apple" from the Topics menu. Start searching away for relevent topics. You should probably include words like "switch", "OS X", "guide", etc.

RTFM

Re:Please! The horse is starting to decay

[ahknight]

Ahh. Dead horses. Sig is finally appropriate! Wheee!!!

Linux iBooks?

[Fembot]

Is it still not possible to get hardware acceleration working with an iBook and linux? cos last time I checked it wasnt

Memory sizing and OS X

[benedict]

My personal experience has been that unless I use
Classic, 192MB is sufficient. Which is not to say
that more isn't better -- I can sometimes use all
512MB on my own Mac. And mileage may vary by
workload.

Say what you will about processor speed...

[mtec]

but I've used a (current) top'o the line TiBook - and it flies. I'm not talking about benchmarks (I know - sacrilege here), just how it feels. The tech-lust gene kicks in a big way when you have your hands on the keyboard. you feel like you're piloting a titanium Lear jet. I know this sounds like a commercial (modders, do your worst..), but the combination of the Ti and the iPod is like a dream come true for me (more so when I upgrade my 550). OS X - Classic - Unix - Virtual PC - and with 6 (count 'em) SIX - unabridged books (from Audible.com) in my iTunes which autosync (and bookmark my spot!) to iPod ranging from A.C. Clarke to business to Ayn Rand.

Closest I've come to tech Nirvana...

Sorry...I'm tech drunk - I've said too much - (but you're some of the few people in the world who can understand).
Forgive me.

iBook lover

[foo fighter]

I got an iBook for my wife. It's an early Dual USB with a 500MHz G3, 128MB RAM, and only a regular CD-ROM. I have it running OS 9.1 until my copy of OS X 10.2 arrives. (I'm setting up wireless this weekend).

I didn't mean to, but I've fallen in love with the thing. I have a PII 266 running Windows 2000 as my main machine and a P120 running Redhat 7.2 as my network server at home. At work I'm a sysadmin with several GHz+ machines running various systems.

It certainly knocks the socks off any of the IBM, Dell, and Gateway laptops we have at work. My wife loves it as a desktop replacement even though the screen is a little small.

I can't even really explain why the iBook is so much better. The aesthetic is certainly part of it: the machine looks beautiful. But it is also nice to use. I don't fight with it to get things set up. Software installation is so easy I just about shit my pants while reinstalling the OS and installing Office. As a whole it just feels better than Win32 or Linux. OS9 and Office 2k1 "feel" smoother and better than Windows and Office 2k.

I definetly don't notice the 500MHz as being too slow and haven't heard any complaints from my wife. It's great for the games she plays on it, and definetly more than enough for photo editing, tune ripping and mixing, and the web browsing she does. Having a faster, newer model would be nice, but I don't think not having a G4 is limiting by any means.

So my wife is happy she has her own computer to use, and that it is so much better to use than Windows 2000 was. I've fallen in love with Apple, and my next machine will probably be a PowerMac tower to replace my Windows box or a Xserve to replace my RedHat box.

Re:Apple proves the 'rumours guys' wrong

[smagoun]

I agree that MOSR is irrelevant these days. Another place to go is ThinkSecret, which has an excellent track record.

As The Apple Turns is another excellent site for commentary and rumors.

And how could we forget the Naked Mole Rat's reports over at MacEdition? He's the grand-daddy of all rumormongers; he got his start as Mac the Knife way back when MacWeek was still around.

Here's the text of a CNET news story on the topic:

[mrpuffypants]

Apple Computer on Wednesday updated its entire portable line, most notably adding its first PowerBook capable of burning DVDs.

The PowerBook line now includes an 867MHz model, available now for $2,299, and a 1GHz model that can both burn and read CDs and DVDs. That model will be available later this month for $2,999.

"This is what our customers have been waiting for," Greg Joswiak, Apple's vice president of hardware marketing, said in a statement. He noted that the new PowerBook is the first notebook with a slot-loading drive that can burn DVDs.

As expected, Apple also bumped up the speed of all of its iBooks by 100MHz while dropping the price of each model by $200. The consumer portables also sport improved graphics now, using ATI Technologies' Mobility Radeon 7500 chip with up to 32MB of graphics memory.

With the faster ATI chip, the iBook can now take advantage of the improved Quartz Extreme graphics engine built into the latest version of Mac OS X.

The three iBook models consist of a $999 model with a 700MHz chip, a 12.1-inch screen, a CD-ROM drive, 128MB of memory and a 20GB hard drive; a $1,299 model with an 800MHz chip, a 12.1-inch screen, a combination CD-rewritable/DVD-ROM drive, 128MB of memory and a 30GB hard drive; and a $1,599 model with an 800MHz chip, a 14-inch screen, a CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive, 256MB of memory and a 30GB hard drive.

As for the PowerBooks, the low-end model comes with a CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive, 256MB of memory and a 40GB hard drive. In addition to the DVD burner, the high-end model includes 512MB of memory, a 60GB hard drive and a preinstalled Airport card for wireless networking.

Not sad, good engineering.

[Arker]

The majority of the processing needed in modern pcs is in fact for all the graphics. So it makes perfect sense to have a faster GPU than CPU - that's where the horsepower is needed. Even if you're doing relatively computationally intense work (I run statistical analyses daily) the requirement still don't add up to the level required to run Aqua or WinXPs graphics.

Remember the Amigas? Positively legendary machines, and for good reason, they were designed this way. The CPU wasn't much at all by modern standards, but it was enough to do what it needed to do just fine (and, in all honesty, enough to handle the non-graphical computations done on most pcs to this day.) The Video Toaster was capable of working pretty much independant of the CPU, and it had a lot more horsepower... the end result was a machine that surpassed PCs made many years later in real functional power.

Some Reasons I Hold

[KalenDarrie]

1. Mac OSX: It's Unix at the core with an easy interface and access to the technical guts if you want it. The interface is clean and more intuitive than most.

2. Stability: On average(in my educated opinion in working with both Windows and Macintosh), Macs are more stable and recover from inevitable catastrophe better. There is also the general Total Cost of Ownership argument. Macs h ave, in many trials, proved to have a lower one on average.

3. Respite from Microsoft: Looking at the high proliferation of viruses, the security issues and Microsoft's openly shady business practices, one of my reasons is that I simply don't trust Microsoft.

4. Preference. Just because someone tells you one thing is better, it doesn't mean that it will be best for all.

In general, games are not that much an issue when many Mac users just buy a cheap PC optimized toward gaming for what doesn't come to Mac and do their real work on a Macintosh. To many, PCs seem to equate to toys and I'm not one to argue with that assertion as one of the most common arguments for sticking with Windows is games.

I use Macintosh because I get less aggravation from them. I have a little PC laptop that I use to play games that I can't get on Macintosh. I'm willing to wait to get games on my preferred platform, case in point Neverwinter Nights. The PC version is out with the Mac version pending. But I'll be waiting for the game to come on my platform of choice because I like using Mac better and I want to show support for my platform.

Hope this helped, though I'm sure some could come up with more points. :)

Re:Some Reasons I Hold

[glh]

Thanks for the info-- appreciate your intelligent and friendly response, definitely a breath of fresh air! I may have to make a trip to COMPUSA and play around with one the next time I'm there. A Mac would probably never be my primary system (I'm a developer and use Visual Studio .NET) but it would be nice for some of the other things I dolike pictures, videos, non-ms development, etc.

The virus issue on the MS platform is definitely something that gets me. I just had to reinstall Win2K pro because of a couple IIS let in. Granted, part of that was my fault (left the DMZ open and forgot to shutdown IIS). However, I can't help but wonder once OSX gets more popular that virii will target it.

Re:This is great!!

[simong_oz]

yeh, not to mention that the bottom of the range laptop costs $999 in the US and £849 in the UK (more than US$1300).

Winter in Whistler

[snowlick]

Anyone else see the name on the DVD the next to the laptop on apple.com? it read: "Winter in Whistler". I sense a swipe at Windows XP!

Re:Winter in Whistler

[Tuzanor]

Windows XP was codenamed Whistler when it was still in alpha.

Myth of the "Working Class"

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple Ibooks are still out of reach for those of us who compromise the working classes

Excuse me, the reason I can afford a Mac is that I work therefore that makes me in the "working class". What you are talking about is that "Slashdot Class" -- a group of people that think its a sin to pay for anything. Which makes the best notebook for you the one found in the dumpster behind a fortune 500 company. Instead of using the Windows 2000 Pro install already on it, you fdisk the harddrive and install Gentoo Linux so you can show it off at your next meeting of the 2600 club complete with Anarchy and Calvin peeing on the Windows logo stickers.

For the rest of us in the "working class", Apple has produced some awesome notebooks at a reasonable fee. Where is the PC Notebook that burns DVDs? What Linux distro supports that?

Re:Myth of the "Working Class"

[axxackall]

Where is the PC Notebook that burns DVDs? What Linux distro supports that?

Have you tried Gentoo on latest Apple powerbooks?

Re:Naturally..

[OwnedByTwoCats]

News Flash: Major computer vendors coming out with faster, less expensive models, better features in the next six months!

A Number of Good Reasons

[FreeUser]

1) AMD and Intel have both embraced Microsoft's Pallaadium "trusted" computing nonsense, which may quite possibly be leveraged lock free operating systems out of the platform at some point in the future. IBM and Apple in contrast ARE NOT DOING THIS (at least at present), giving us the very ironic possibility that it will be Apple hardware in the future that is open (and able to dual boot alternative operating systems) and NOT Intel/AMD.

2) The laptops have noticably longer battery life than their equivelent Intel counterparts

3) and snazzy 16:10 displays...

4) The high end model now comes with a DVD-RW burner and software

5) The OS is Unix-like. Dual boot OS X with Gentoo PPC GNU/Linux, and you have the best of all possible worlds.

That last point is the most important. My next laptop will almost certainly now be an Apple, with the DVD-RW burner. Of course, I'm not going to order them until shipping times become a couple of days, rather than a month, and I'll probably prefer just going to the store to buy one I can take home with me, but with this new release the Intel platform, with its Microsoft pre-installed crap (that I blow away anyway), its short battery life and no non-external DVD-RW burning options, has lost me as customer. Palladium has likely made that loss perminent.

So yes, unlike many such promotional stories, I think this is a big deal, it is certainly News for Nerds, and for many readers, myself included, it is certainly Stuff That Matters.

Re:A Number of Good Reasons

[MidKnight]

5) The OS is Unix-like


I think that's selling OS X a little short. It *is* a Unix OS. My history might be a little off, but Darwin is essentially the Mach micro-kernel with a FreeBSD compatibility layer on top of it. I've re-compiled all sorts of Unix apps on my 'lil laptop without any trouble. The Korn shell on my laptop works the exact same way as it does on my Solaris box.


Dual boot OS X with Gentoo PPC GNU/Linux, and you have the best of all possible worlds.


I thought I was going to do this too, but once I started using it I didn't see the reason. There are several good Linux distros for the PPC, but why would you really want to use them?

--Mid

Re:A Number of Good Reasons

[kalidasa]

It is also officially certified as a UNIX. So yeah, OS X = UNIX.

Re:A Number of Good Reasons

[axxackall]

There are several good Linux distros for the PPC, but why would you really want to use them?

Perhaps b/c Linux is open source, not proprietary, easy to fix, many to learn, cross-platform, vendor-independent OS with widely used cross-patform remotely working window system (X11).

Re:A Number of Good Reasons

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Do you have a source for this info? According to the Open Group's web site, Apple has not been given permission to use the UNIX brand name. (I've heard that that's simply because they haven't asked for it, because asking for it requires that Apple pay the Open Group a certification fee that Apple doesn't feel is worth it.)

It's just a technicality. OS X is UNIX, it's just not UNIX(tm).

Re:A Number of Good Reasons

[FreeUser]

5) The OS is Unix-like

I think that's selling OS X a little short. It *is* a Unix OS.

I would tend to agree, but Apple themselves refer to it as "unix-like", and as others have pointed out, not all unix-style configuration changes affect the operating system's behavior the way one would expect.

I thought I was going to do this too, but once I started using it I didn't see the reason. There are several good Linux distros for the PPC, but why would you really want to use them?

I am used to living far enough up the exponential curve of technological and scientific progress that I see a measurable, and observable, change in the technology available to me every morning when I get up.

Perhaps this comes from being spoiled by distributions like Gentoo, where every morning I can run an 'emerge rsync' followed by an 'emerge -up world' and see a whole bunch of packages I can upgrade, and by issuing a couple of other commands, a whole list of new packages I can install.

It is like having Christmas every single day, and it is a pleasure that becomes very addictive. Mac OS X, no matter how slick, smooth, well designed, and delightful, will probably never offer me that. It does, however, offer me one thing I do not currently have under GNU/Linux, namely the ability to quickly and easilly burn my own videos or tv recordings to DVD, so that feature alone would make dual booting worthwhile.

But, regardless of how snazzy OS X might be, I'll never give up my morning Gentoo updates until they pry my digital freedoms from my cold, dead hands ... which is why Apple and IBM are so smart in making their hardware platforms reasonably open and accessible, and why AMD and Intel, with their collusion on the Palladium/DRM front, are so incredibly short sighted and foolish in comparison. (Estimates are that Mac OS and GNU/Linux vie for 2nd place behind Microsoft ... and Linux has on occasion surpassed Apple in terms of number of users. In any event, the two communities are quite comparable in size, so alientating one or the other, by either side, would be incredibly foolish ... and right now it is AMD and Intel, by kowtowing to the Microsoft Monolopy on Palladium, who are doing the alienating, while Apple and IBM appear quite open and friendly in comparison).

Proof that its still not good enough

[swb]

I will concider [sic] an Apple next time I buy a computer!

This is proof that Apple still has a ways to go. If their changes were that radical, nobody would wait for "...next time I buy a computer.." and would actually do it NOW.

I'm sure some are/have, but convincing me your product is good enough to look at when I'm going to look at a new one is just a partial victory; like convincing a chick to consider dating you when she's done dating her current boyfriend..

Re:Proof that its still not good enough

[ahknight]

This is proof that Apple still has a ways to go. If their changes were that radical, nobody would wait for "...next time I buy a computer.." and would actually do it NOW.

Radical or not, I, like most people, have to wait until I have the money to actually buy it in order to, well, buy it. I'm going to shoot for the entry iBook the next time I buy a computer because that's when I'll have the money to do it.

Besides, what moron goes out and gets a new computer when their current one works just fine? I have a PowerMac G4/450 that's over three years old and it runs 10.2 at a more than acceptable speed ("damn fast") and is no where near needing an upgrade. I'm only getting the iBook because I need an iBook. There are those people that buy things for the sake of having them and then there are those that buy when there is a need. Obviously the previous poster does not need a new computer now. The fact that he is waiting is not a statement on Apple's ability to market or make a product but a statement on the efficiency of the poster with regard to his possessions and money.

Hmm, a mature attitude towards something on Slashdot. Anyone else feel that cold draft come out of the cracks of Hell?

Re:Proof that its still not good enough

[timmyf2371]

If their changes were that radical, nobody would wait for "...next time I buy a computer.." and would actually do it NOW.

I can't agree with you there. My current computer is an 900 Mhz Athlon, although I feel pretty sure my next system will be a G4 (or G5, depending on when I buy it). At the moment, my financial situation doesn't allow for me to invest in new computer hardware, particulary a £3000 Apple Mac. I'm sure many other people will be in this same position.

My point is, although some people say a Mac will be their next computer, given the chance - and resources - we would actually buy it right away.

Tim

Re:Proof that its still not good enough

[Moloch666]

I have a feeling it's more along the lines of "Mommy and Daddy buy me whatever I want, whenever I want." These people really don't understand that money is hard to come by and does not grow on trees. Being 21 and living on my own is hard, some of my friends are living at home or are very supported by their parents. They won't ever truly grasp saving money and waiting till you need something to buy it until they are on their own.

Re:Proof that its still not good enough

[swb]

And as far as the dating girl comment - wild guess. You don't date much, right? (No, I'm not trying to be mean, it just seems like the most nonsensical explanation I've ever seen.)

No, not much, at least not since I got married five years ago.

Re:Proof that its still not good enough

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Exactly. Anybody who would go out and buy a new computer just to play a game would definitely be a moron.

They aren't so underpowered...

[Arker]

Don't fall into the Mhz myth, the clock speeds on these things are lower, but they get more work done in a clock cycle too.

That said, they're still a little slower in terms of work done per second than the fastest Intel has, just not nearly as much so as you may think looking at the clock speeds. But it doesn't really matter all that much. CPU speed is just one factor of overall performance, and with a good design it doesn't need to be nearly as fast as it would on a poorer design. The design on the Macs really is much better, the bottlenecks aren't as bad, and they have plenty of power where it counts. Think of it as finesse vs. brawn in comparison with your typical Intel/AMD system, where the surfeit of CPU speed is used to overcome a basically less efficient design. Consider that probably over 90% of the computation done on a pc these days is concentrated in the graphics rendering, and the look at how much more efficiently the mac handles that - all the way from a GPU which is faster than the CPU to the Altivec system in the CPU, which beats the hell out of MMX/SSE and all that.

I'm typing this on a TiBook now, a 666 Mhz G4, and believe me, when I put it up against a new Intel based notebook it won't take the speed crown, by any means, but it's close enough that I don't really care. It will outperform Intel notebooks with over twice the clockspeed quite handily on most tasks, and when you look at things like the screen and the cd-rw/dvd drive... Apple was overpriced once but it's changed. You'd be very hard pressed to find an intel notebook with the same features in the same weight-class much cheaper. And OS X beats WinXP in nearly every category for my money. Easier to use, prettier, AND more powerful under the good as well... tcsh or bash beats cmd.exe any day.

Re:They aren't so underpowered...

[Skuld-Chan]

I actually do mac/pc support for a company who makes lots of graphics software (I can't say who).

But I have on my desk a Mac G4/733 and next to it a Dell with a P3-933 in it. Dell has a Matrox G400 and the Mac has a Geforce 2 MX in it. Both have 40 gig hdd's and both have 256 megs of ram. Mac is running OS9 and 10.1.5, and the PC is running Windows 2000.

I can honestly say that the PC in equivelent applications (like Photoshop 7 on Mac or Photoshop 7 on PC, or Acrobat 5.0.5 on PC or Acrobat 5.0.5 on Mac) that my Dell is easily 25-40% quicker on most complex operations in OS 9 or OS X.

Not that the mac is any slouch - its still very fast, but I've found my cheaper PC is still quicker. A lot of people I talk to use Mac's (OS9 mainly), not because its faster but because it has more apps to do things like colour proofing and other pre-flight tests printers use to offset printing.

I won't argue which UI looks prettier, probably Mac OS X by far, but its not perfect - its got a lot of annoying issues. Like go into proxy config and enter a address and a port - whoa - notice something - in 10.1.x it won't let you type in the port until you hit lock type in the password, hit unlock type in the password again - then you can type in a port... Or type "man tar" from the command line - how the heck do you navigate around the man page?

Re:They aren't so underpowered...

[Graff]

I can honestly say that the PC in equivelent applications (like Photoshop 7 on Mac or Photoshop 7 on PC, or Acrobat 5.0.5 on PC or Acrobat 5.0.5 on Mac) that my Dell is easily 25-40% quicker on most complex operations in OS 9 or OS X.

Well, it's probably subjective but I've seen the opposite in many instances. From what I've seen a single processor G4 Mac is approximately equal to a 50% faster P4 Windows machine, for most common tasks. This can vary with certain activities but overall it seems to be true. So a 1 gHx G4 seems to perform similarly to a 1.5 gHz P4.

Like go into proxy config and enter a address and a port - whoa - notice something - in 10.1.x it won't let you type in the port until you hit lock type in the password, hit unlock type in the password again - then you can type in a port.

I've never seen or heard of this issue before. Do you have a root account set up? Are you set up as an administrator? Maybe something is misconfigured somewhere, try the Apple Discussion boards to see if anyone else has had the same problem.

type "man tar" from the command line - how the heck do you navigate around the man page?

The default pager for the "man" program is a program called "more". To find out how to navigate using the "more" command, type "man more" into the terminal (don't use any quotes) and hit enter. Basically you hit the space bar when you are done reading a page and it will advance to the next page. MacOS X 10.2 has an updated set of terminal utilities, with a "more" program that allows you to move forward and backward within a file by hitting "f" to move forward 1 screen or "b" to go back 1 screen.

Re:They aren't so underpowered...

[Graff]

it _is_ more. How braindead is that? Though I guess if it matters you can always man tar | less

Right, or you could do:

man -P less tar

Which tells man to use less as the pager for the moment. You could also just do this to permenantly use less as your pager:

setenv PAGER less

Boom, now less is your pager. To change it back:

unsetenv PAGER

Re:They aren't so underpowered...

[Twirlip of the Mists]

I remember when it came time for 666 with Intel, but all the ads I saw clearly said "667" probably because they were too scared to use a famous symbolic number from christian history/mythology.

Just for the record, Christianity is a religion. Best to refer to it as such, rather than inaccurately describing it as a history or a mythology.

But on the other subject, isn't 667 a more accurate way of describing 666-and-two-thirds megahertz, anyway? Intel and Motorola just rounded up to the nearest million hertz, rather than truncating down.

Re:They aren't so underpowered...

[Twirlip of the Mists]

"Fundamentalist reactionary types?" Hardly. I have no particular opinion on God; I've never met the gentleman. I was simply pointing out that the OP was on the road to offending lots and lots of people unnecessarily.

Then again, there are people out there who sometimes go out of their way to offend people needlessly. Maybe that's the sort of person I'm dealing with here.

Either way, that's about enough of that.

Re:They aren't so underpowered...

[Twirlip of the Mists]

I'm sorry if I offended you in doing so.

It only offended me to the extent that it appeared you were tweaking Christians needlessly. I don't count myself as part of that group, but I get annoyed at that sort of thing anyway. Since it seems that wasn't your intention, let's call it a wash.

On the contrary, IIRC, it went 66, 166, 266, 366, 466, 566, 667. More accurate or not, it was inconsistent.

The floors in every building I've ever been in go 11, 12, 14, 15. Welcome to our world. ;-)

Re:They aren't so underpowered...

[Twirlip of the Mists]

The OP was not on the road to offending anyone except people like you who can't comprehend the meaning of a simple sentence.

Wrong. As I clearly stated, calling Christianity a mythology is very offensive to many, many people. I don't happen to be one of them, except to the extent that people who go out of their way to trivialize a belief system held by over a billion people kinda annoy me.

And as for the rest of your remark, as you can clearly see, I will respond to whomever I please.

Re:They aren't so underpowered...

[Skuld-Chan]

I've never seen or heard of this issue before. Do you have a root account set up? Are you set up as an administrator? Maybe something is misconfigured somewhere, try the Apple Discussion boards [apple.com] to see if anyone else has had the same problem.

Say I'm your typical mac user - the kind of person who is afraid of complex computers...

Anyhoo - on the proxy setup, yes I've re-produced that "bug" on at least 4 10.1.x machines (even the latest version of 10.1.8 didn't fix this). I haven't tested it on 10.2. Out of the box I should be able to click on the proxy port on any of the protocol without having hit lock/unlock for every option.

Re:They aren't so underpowered...

[Twirlip of the Mists]

The best way to refer to Christianity-- or Islam, or Buddhism, or Zoroastrianism, or whatever-- is to call it a religion. The word "religion" has a very precise meaning, and no connotation of veracity or falsehood. That way, the whole question of truth or myth is conveniently sidestepped.

On the other hand, if you're the type of person who gets his rocks off by needlessly and pointlessly challenging other people's beliefs-- this sort of person appears to make up about 25% of the Slashdot posters-- then you probably don't see the point of sidestepping that question, so never mind.

Speed bumps?

[Betelgeuse]

OK. I'll bite. What the hell is "speed bumps" refering to? Maybe it's just some subtlety of the English language (or geek language) that is alluding me, but I can't, for the life of me, figure it out. But, I'm willing to admit ignorance and have someone explain it to me. . .

Time's are a-changin'

[MisterSquid]

Excluding my grandma who is sysadmin in a linux-only rendering farm (that's a joke), Apple is the only option consumers have to WinTel. Apple's tenacity, inventiveness, and rich *nixy-goodness is why Apple is the darling of the computing world these days, even at 6% market share.

I'm not trolling, but I'm guessing you've not yet used a recent (4 years) machine made by Apple. (My apologies if I've put my foot in my ignormaus. Apple is becoming a favorite among newly converted geeks because they produce good stuff and because they're finally starting to get it: *nix, Photoshop, Apache, SSH, MS Office. Apple's laptops have no WinTel equivalent. The interaction between the command line and Aqua is something at which to gawk.

On a less preach-to-the-choir note, is it so different than announcments for minor revisions of relatively arcane (if beloved) open source software? Not that I'm saying such posts are bad, but that it might be the nature of the Slashdot beast.

Re:Time's are a-changin'

[axxackall]

you continue to repeat: Apple, Apple, Apple ...

Do you mean Apple computers with Linux installed? Oh, then good.

But something is bothering me to think that you may mean some other, proprietary, non-cross-patform, memory-leakful vendor-specific, operating system created by the company who wants to be another monopolist. Am I right?

Re:Time's are a-changin'

[Tuzanor]

I bet you say open source, open source, open source just as much.

Listen to yourself for a moment. Not all companies (outside of the oil industry anyways ;-) are evil spawns of satan. Many slashdotters are now apple fans, ./ is now just cattering to them. And I'd also like to point out that a DVD burner in a freekin' laptop IS news worthy of slashdot

Re:Time's are a-changin'

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Do you mean Apple computers with Linux installed?

That's gotta be the worst idea I've ever heard. Generally, Apple's machines are no cheaper than AnyCo's Intel machines, and sometimes more expensive. When you buy a Mac, you're paying for a complete user experience, the most visible part of which is the OS.

If you put Linux on a Mac, you're combining expensive hardware with user-hostile software. You get the worst of both worlds!

Surely that's a combination suitable only for wealthy masochists.

Re:This is great!!

[Halo1]

Don't forget that (almost?) all European countries charge quite a bit of VAT (all that healthcare etc doesn't come for free!) In Belgium that's 20.5% on luxury items (which includes electronic products), I guess it's similar in other EU countries.

Nice

[Arker]

My TiBook has 'only' 256mb ram and I've been wishing I'd insisted on 512 - it works fine as is really, but the thrashing when I try to run too many apps, including one BIG one that still runs only under classic, is a little annoying. I hadn't looked into it, good to know it's not a hard upgrade to do yourself, now the question - do these things take regular DIMMS or do you have to buy some sort of special Apple memory?

Re:Nice

[asparagus]

Here is the best place to buy memory for the mac.

The're really easy to upgrade. Get a 512MB chip ($75), throw it in there, and never look back.

-Brett

Re:Nice

[dhovis]

They take regular SO-DIMMS, but you have to be careful about the size of the whole SO-DIMM package. I recommend checking out dealram. Dealram is run by the Dealmac people, and lists the best prices on memory for each Apple model. They are solid consumer advocates, and they will yank sellers that rip people off.

Their best price on 512MB for the TiBook right now is $95 shipped from Data Memory Systems.

Re:Nice

[Knobby]

The PowerBooks are pretty easy to work on. I've upgraded the Harddrive, memory, and recently even swapped the g3/400 processor card for a g4/500 card in my Bronze Powerbook. The processor upgrade took 15 minutes which included the time required to watch the quicktime video that stepped through the process..

Re:Nice

[Twirlip of the Mists]

No offense, but your knowledge is out of date. The G4 PowerBooks are notoriously hard to work on. Adding RAM is easy, but adding an AirPort card or replacing the hard drive requires practically skinning the whole laptop. It's a huge pain in the ass.

Re:Nice

[stux]

Its definately a serious pita to change the harddrive in a PowerBook G4, ram is fairly easy... I can't remember if it was a pain to do the airport card... probably not.

That HD was a *BITCH* though :)

They're great machines, that's why

[wirefarm]

I've never had a machine that I liked using as much.

The thing that makes a big difference for me is that the internationalization is seamless; right now, I'm converting a PHP app from English to Japanese. Using my iBook I can open the files from the Linux server using samba and easily convert the strings in the text editor that comes with Os X. If I have to do other editing to the code, I prefer vi, which comes standard. SSH is right there for me. My shell works the way I need it to, without installing Cygwin.

I have 4 computers on my desk - Redhat/Japanese Windows dualboot IBM Thinkpad, 2 NT Workstations (Eng. & Jp.) and my iBook. I could use any of them that I wanted, but the iBook is what works best for me. (The RedHat box comes close, but I've tweaked the hell out of it to get it just right - it would take weeks to set up another box the same way, whereas I could pick up another iBook and replace this one instantly.)

The suite of "iApps" (iCal, iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, iEtc...) are a joy to use, better than anything you can get for Windows. Really. Mail filters out spam perfectly for me out of the box. Viruses? Not even an issue.

Plus, every app looks great. I stare at the computer all day at work, it might as well look good. Let's face it, Windows is tired-looking, even XP, which to me looks cartoonish and pathetic.

As for games, I wouldn't know - I haven't got time for them.

After a while, you get to the point where you'll be happy to pay a bit more for a machine that actually works.

Oh, yeah, BATTERY LIFE. Sweet.

Cheers,
Jim

Re:They're great machines, that's why

[Huge Pi Removal]

Not only does vi (and pico) come as standard, but Apple have made it so that the Terminal window in which you're editing gets that little "your document is unsaved" dot in it's close button if you haven't written your changes out.

Just those little touches... :)

Plus, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Win XP is so fucking ugly. Eugh!!!

Re:They're great machines, that's why

[dadragon]

The document unsaved button is always on in Terminal if you're running a program it doesn't recognize.. IE one that you have not put in the "Prompt before closing" box. So vi ALWAYS has the button, whether you've saved or not.

Re:They're great machines, that's why

[dadragon]

The thing that makes a big difference for me is that the internationalization is seamless;

That's a nice feature, and I like it. The problem is that my main language (Canadian French) isn't supported by many programs, and neither is French. My preference order for languages goes Canadian French, French, Suisse French, British English, English. 90% of programs run in English or British English. The exceptions are some Open-Source programs, and Apple Programs, which all support French.

Even MSN Messenger doesn't work in any language I've tried (French, German, Some Asian language I couldn't read, or Spanish), but runs in English just fine. Internet Explorer is internationalised, so MS knows how it's done.

This doesn't bother me that much, because I simply switched it for the duration of my University French classes, but does anybody know if one can get French versions of ICQ, MSN, RDC, and various other prgrams?

Used Powerbook/iBook Prices

[namespan]

The best part about this whole thing may well be the fact that the used (T)iBooks will drop in price. The original Powerbook G4's are now hovering a bit above $1000 on eBay. They'll drop further. By the time I'm ready to buy another laptop in 6 months, I'll bet I can pick one up for $700 if I work hard.

Oh, speed? I'm typing this from a G3/333 Mhz Powerbook. Audio and image processing, compiling Apache, PHP, Nethack, whatever... all acceptably fast. No OS I've ever used speeds up like OS X when you give it RAM (except NeXT/Openstep, of course).

That's unpossible!

[onShore_Jake]

This must be false because MacOsRumors (MOSR.com) sed:
"In the mean time, one thing we can tell you is that if the announcements do indeed come next week, they will not include Superdrives. ... something which will not come to pass until roughly the first of next year."

Therefor please retract the story until the rumor sites have time to predict it.

Re:RIAA

[Planesdragon]

A portable DVD, i.e. you could end up watching region one DVDs in region two. BAD!

That's not too large an issue; it's a market division, not a geographical division. (I wager that the PXes on USAF bases in Japan sell Region 1 disks and Region 1 players.)

CD burner, aught to be illegal, makes rich artists starve. BAD!

Oddly enough, CD-burners are the least of the RIAA's new technology worries. Backing up your shiney "we will not replace this disk" CD is a justification for RIAA not offering to replace "broken licensed CDs." Mixing CDs of music you've got--especially if they're lesser quality due to the analog hole--is another thing that RIAA is probably all too happy to let you do.

Well, maybe not "happy", but "forced to allow due to the courts" sounds about right...

#grep humor apple.slashdot.org

[Asprin]

Apple Gives Laptops Speed Bumps

Oh, is Apple putting Windows on their laptops now? [*rimshot*]

(HA! I kill me!)




Seriously, this would make a great /. poll: Pick your all-tim favorite ambiguous story headline

Re:MegaHertz Myth!!

[kasparov]

Google to the rescue!

So as not to be a complete ass, the first link from that article as a statement that a P4 overclocked to 3.9GHz (wow--he used liquid nitrogen) was only able to do 4.9 Gigaflops. A dual-G4 1GHz did 15 Gigaflops...

No USB 2.0?

[porkchop_d_clown]

I looked for it on the web site, but I didn't see a mention about USB 2.0 support. Since external FireWire storage devices seem to be getting driven out of the market place (judging from my local Staples and CompUSA) it would have been nice to see this feature.

Re:No USB 2.0?

[BlueGecko]

Apple has said several times at shareholder meeting that they will not adopt USB 2.0. Generally speaking, Apple feels that it alone is responsible for the success of USB 1.0 in the first place, and therefore is pissed that Intel would target their FireWire technology with USB 2.0. Essentially, Apple feels as if Intel is backstabbing them.

All that said, I don't see FireWire going anywhere. I do see it redefining its niche to be purely high-bandwidth applications such as video cameras and very fast external drives. Do remember, however, that FireWire 2 is due very soon and will literally double the bandwidth. Could change things considerably.

Re:No USB 2.0?

[WatertonMan]

True - although remember that you can buy USB 2.0 cards for the Mac fairly easily. Typically not a big deal unless you are sharing some USB 2.0 only hard drive or similar device.

Likely though the reason they are holding off is because Firewire 2.0 (or whatever it is called) will be out within 8 months on Apple systems.

Re:No USB 2.0?

[Onan]

In theory. But in practice, firewire is actually substantially faster. cf this comparison.

Firewire also offers things like isosynchronous transfers, and a more flexible chaining topology.

Re:No USB 2.0?

[Tuzanor]

You have been caught in the marketing hype :-)

USB 2.0 has a PEAK transfer of 480 mbps, whilst firewire has a SUSTAINED transfer of 400 mbps. As the other poster at my level also stated, firewire also chains better, is more consistent in its speed and generally is better for high bandwidth purposes. USB 2, while it has gained some support in external hard drives and CD-Rs, is still an inferior product that was created more for political reasons.

USB belongs on the low bandwidth end (mice, webcams, keyboards) whilst higher transfer devices should be firewire (digital camcorders, iPod, hard drives).

Heh, I don't even own a Mac and I'm praising firewire, lol!

That took ages

[Lewisham]

I'm surprised it took that long. I bought this 667Mhz PB (not cheap) a month ago.

I was expecting sod's law to kick in about a week later.

Fortunately it's not Murphy's law yet because my laptop hasn't yet brok

Re:MegaHertz Myth!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Think again.

Mega Hz myth is right. However it seems to me that many Apple users think that their very slow machine is much faster than top Wintel machines.

Well.. due to difference of CPU architecture, compare them with their Mhz only is totally wrong. Moreover, the PowerPC chip is efficient chip.
However, as you exaggerated, it is not as fast as
5 pentium 4's running at 2.3 Ghz a piece or 8 AMD 2400XP's combined together.

Probably the Mac system with 1Ghz processor will be comparable with Wintel systems with 1.3Ghz or 1.2Ghz.
With some tests, Mac will be faster, but with some other tests, Wintel will be faster.

Who said the PowerBook G4 or Mac G4 are super computers? No way! Is it as fast as the Cray?
The general definition of the super computer is
the fastest class computer "now".
if Mac G4 is a super computer, then current Wintel computers are also super computers.

From probable iBook buyer.
( Well.. the features of iBook is great.
No other PC makers give such features with such
price tag. And it has a robust and manageable Unix on it. However...... The processor speed is
too slow for the price tag. You can buy Toshiba AMD notebooks with Athlon +1500 processor with $1099 or something. And.. they also have good features.. )

EU is screwed on price, as usual.

[forged]

Here's a quick chart:

US version
$2299 867mhz
$2799 cdrw
$2999 superdrive

European version
2988 867mhz
3682 cdrw
3945 superdrive

IF you can get a flight for less than $1000 you're saving money.

Re:EU is screwed on price, as usual.

[ahknight]

IF you can get a flight for less than $1000 you're saving money.

You're forgetting the customs taxes and so on. It's never going to be cheaper, just more painful to see that, gasp, it's cheaper for Apple to sell their products in their own country...

Re:EU is screwed on price, as usual.

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that the powerbooks are made in Cork, Ireland now, not the usa.

Re:EU is screwed on price, as usual.

[ahknight]

PowerBooks are make in Taiwan ... as are the new iMacs and the iBooks.

I'm not even sure they're doing anything in Cork except answering phones and getting drunk.

Re:EU is screwed on price, as usual.

[AlgUSF]

Customs? Just tell customs that you brought it with you from the UK, how are they going to prove you didn't?

Re:EU is screwed on price, as usual.

[Midnight Thunder]

I had a friend who flew over to NY to buy his portable. H managed to fly return for around 300 pounds from London. He still made a huge saving.

Re:EU is screwed on price, as usual.

[Gannoc]

EU is screwed on price, as usual.

I'll make you a deal. You can have our Apple Macintosh Laptops at our price, if we can have prescription drugs at your price. Deal?

Re:G4 powers past Pentium 4-by up to 44 percent !

[AssFace]

LOL
I hear that.

I like the way they look. Pretty.

I might eventually get one so that I can program things for Macs, and maybe use it also for the mundane stuff like e-mail and web surfing and the like. Maybe excel stuff.

But in terms of doing real work, everything I do needs performance (neural net stuff), and regardless of the people on here that will bend over backwards to say that the mac is faster on seti (look at the cache), or opens photoshop faster (hmmm... does photoshop help me run neural net code faster... hell if I know), but in terms of true performance - esp in Java which is what the damn thing is running, it is slower.
If it was truly faster in that sense, then I would totally get one today.

Hell, I'd be pretty happy if I could even just upgrade the JDK in the thing.

Get a job, hippie!

[SPYvSPY]

...those of us who compromise the working classes.

It's true: the working classes *are* compromised by free-loading, debt-swimming, dole-takers like you.

Good Timing

[WesHertlein]

Well, I seemed to have lucked out with my first Apple purchase. One of the first e-mails I looked at this morning:

To Our Valued Apple Customer:

Apple is pleased to announce a new generation of iBooks with faster processor speeds. We invite you to visit the Apple Store at http://www.apple.com/store for details.

Your 600Mhz iBook has been upgraded to a 700Mhz iBook at no additional charge. If you would like to review the changes made to your order, visit http://www.apple.com/orderstatus.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact us at the number below. Thank you for choosing Apple!

Yup, that's right. My bad luck, I just ordered an iBook last week. This is a *very* cool move by Apple... they simply canceled my old order (for the low end model) and swapped in a new order (for the low end model). I'm saving $200 + tax on this, and getting a faster model.

Quick note for those who recommend gobs of RAM... that's done and done. Same day I ordered the iBook, I placed an order with Coast To Coast Memory for an addition 512 MB. $95 after tax and shipping, and it's already here.

That's the downside... I wanted the laptop this week. At least they had a good excuse for not getting it to me. :)

Re:Good Timing

[stux]

Make sure your new ram works with your *new* ibook ;)

Re:Isn't the iBook design childish?

[joe52]

It's all a matter of what you like. I love my iBook. I prefer the appearance of the iBook to that of the Powerbook, though I kind of wish that the iBook came in come color other than white (black, grey, blue, whatever).

SuperDrive! No Bluetooth???

[occam]

Wow, Apple achieved the difficult goal of adding the portable superdrive. Cool!

But Apple has been touting the virtues of BlueTooth for nearly a year (January MacWorld) and no machine yet has it built in? They didn't even add it to their new PB? What gives? Steve, hello; are you listening to your own hype? How about walking some of that talk?

Radeon 9000 --- finally. I guess I'm still waiting for their BT portables. Get rid of the dongle. At least they finally are including the 802.11b adapters with two of the three configurations (a first!). That should be built-in standard as well (for all portables).

Apple has done a pioneering and hassle-free job of integrating wireless and BT. With their hub strategy, you'd think they'd tout all that awesome work by shipping standard to take advantage of 802.11b and BT.

Fingers crossed for next edition PB (including BT and 802.11b (802.11g?)).

Apple's not the problem!

[toupsie]

I'm in hock up to my loogies, and have enough trouble just keeping my wife and five children sheltered, shorn, and clod each month.

Have you ever heard of birth control? Maybe instead of griping at Apple, you should be having a discussion with the "little guy" about your financial situation.

Re:Apple's not the problem!

[toupsie]

Yea but he said 5 kids! Unless his wife was popping them out like a machine gun, I doubt they were all concieved during the economic boom of the late nineties.

Re: Any objective benchmarks?

[iSwitched]

It's been my experience that the hard-numbers I've found, when taken alone, still don't seem to answer the question. Even the most seemingly objective benchmarks can be argued either way - there's just too much religion on the subject.

Bottom line, you have to decide for yourself. If you know someone with a Mac, ask 'em if you can play around for an hour, or go hang out at CompUSA or an Apple store and bug the folks there for an hour.

I'm biased, I converted from PC after years of using Windows and a brief and generally positive flirtation with Linux (Rehat's 6.2 thru 7-ish). I have a dual-gig G4 tower and I NEVER notice a speed problem, my daughter has a 600Mhz G3 iMac and it's slowish - BUT, what are you going to use it for?

I know a developer here where I work who works all day on an older G4 Powerbook laptop - he loves it. I myself use my Mac for coding in Java and it's awsome, I love the fact that I can run just about any Java-related open source project I want. That being said, I'm sure there are uses where the Mac won't be the best choice, and there is the issue of making sure all your favorite software has a Mac version, and re-buying if you use commercial apps.

If I had the spare cash, I'd be buying that new 1Ghz Poerbook right now!

Re:iBook != Education System

[Mononoke]

At the start of this school year, I did some heavy research into these systems.

Consisting of a full 10 minutes spent at store.apple.com, right?

I replaced it with a Sony Vaio, running BSD, with a copy of VMWare for Windows applications.

Just what your average architecture/fine arts/law/sociology student would be comfortable with. No.

...running on non-native, proprietary hardware?

What is "non-native" hardware?

What is "proprietary" about Apple's hardware, and how is it different from the "proprietary" hardware that Dell, Sony, and Gateway sell?

Apple is owned by Microsoft anyways.

Oh, I see you're an ignorant troll. Nevermind.

Re:MegaHertz Myth!!

[discstickers]

What are you smoking?

The G4 has 7 stage pipeline. The P4 has a, what, 20 stage pipeline? That means the G4 is clocked slower, but can do more with each cycle. That's not even considering the cost of pipeline bubbles. Don't even get me started on AltiVec. That shit is amazing. I saw a demo where they took plain C code and optimized for the G4. It saw a ridiculous speed boost (orders of magnitude), with only a day's time in development. MHz for Mhz, the PPC wins out in most, if not all cases. I'm willing to concede, however, that the higher clock of the x86 CPUs allows it to attain overall better performance in some cases.

Re: Any objective benchmarks?

[Arker]

For example, another post in this thread claims that "... a 1 GHz G4 is about the same as a 4 GHz P4 in speed", which I suspect is a little optimistic ;)

I have to agree, that's very optimistic. That said, it's not wholly untrue - the numbers will back that up or very close on certain tests - the ones where the Mac does best, primarily involving Adobe Photoshop. That is probably the one application that drives more Mac sales than any others, and it's naturally totally optimised for the Mac architecture as a result.

On other benchmarks they don't fare quite so well. I remember a fairly recent SPEC showing where the G4 came in only something like 20% above a PIII at the same clock speed (remember that the PIV benchmarks below the PIII at the same clockspeed) when running against Windows, and dead even when running against Linux. Which doesn't look so good. But this test doesn't use any of the special capabilities of the G4 that optimised Mac applicatons do access... it's probably fairly accurate in reflecting how fast it will run apps that aren't particularly in need of computational power will run, but the ones that do need the power tend to be optimised more than that. Perhaps to the degree that these links would imply, or at least close. GCC is sadly not very good at generating fast G4 code, though it's improving, and that benchmark really tests the compiler moreso than the hardware.

These benchmarks on the Xserves are much more impressive. Really, when it comes to the benchmarks on these things, sometimes they look really good, sometimes they look really crappy. It's definately a mixed bag. But in the end, what's important isn't how it looks on a benchmark but how it performs for you day to day, on whatever it is that you use the computer for. On normal everyday tasks, my TiBook keeps up with Wintel books at twice the clock speed, is lighter, and a lot nicer to work on. That's what counts. YMMV, of course... if you're really curious about the performance go down to the nearest store that carries them and try one out.

Re:iBook != Education System

[entrox]

I'll bite:

Not only are they much more expensive than their PC counterparts [...]

Standard Anti-Apple Rant #14. I won't even bother (I don't think $999 is expensive).

Why should I pay a premium to use something with BSD 3.2 hacked in [...]

The Unix-side of OSX was updated to 4.4 with Jaguar.

running on non-native, proprietary hardware?

First, what is "non-native" hardware? Secondly, what's so proprietary about IDE drives, SDRAM, Firewire, OpenFirmware (OK - that's not hardware per se) or PPC?

Besides that, it sickens me to see the average slashdotter drool over 'pretty' [fruity] OS X, and banter about the fact that their "M$ free".

You know, not everybody on Slashdot is a stark raving mad zealot misspelling "Microsoft" intentionally.

Re:Considering switching to iBook

[mikerich]

I would appreciate it if you guys could comment on how difficult a defection to Apple could be for me.

I made my iBook my main home machine about 3 months ago and it was relatively painless. Getting used to not pressing Ctrl was the hardest task.

Without knowing exactly what you do, the best answer is 'it depends'. Your main expense may well be replacing software that you have used on the PC - which could work out VERY expensive. If you have a lot of PC software you might want to think about getting a Windows emulator to help you continue working as you replace software with Mac applications.

Microsoft are offering good deals on Office X right now which eases the pain of buying what for many of us is an essential product.

Remember, OSX has a very nice little mail program thrown in for standard, AppleWorks is a perfectly competent office application if you don't need all the features of Office and naturally you have a browser included. There is a DVD player, the very lovely iTunes, iPhoto, iCal and iChat and a CD burner. For many people this will be all the productivity software they ever need. (Assuming that you consider that DVD player to constitute 'productivity' :) )

Best wishes,
Mike.

OS X and X Windows

[PythonOrRuby]

That said, you can easily install XFree86 and the window manager of your choice in OS X. The most commonly used window manager is probably OrborusX(or something like that). Both XFree86 and this WM come as easily installed double-click packages.

You can also run the X server rootless, so that your X Windows apps appear right alongside your OS X apps.

Re:OS X and X Windows

[WatertonMan]

OrborusX really is an amazing window manager as it makes X11 look much more like OSX apps. Installing X11 is a joke now with Fink. Go to the Fink site and pretty much all the applications you'd run on Linux that don't come with OSX get installed. It is easier enough that even Unix newbies can do it.

About the only problem is that it installs a second copy of Python for some reason which may cause problesm. I can't get wxWindows to work with Python properly and I think it is because of Fink's install of Python.

There still are a few odd things with Darwin as opposed to other BSD distros. However with each release Apple has been improving things. The big flaw with 10.2 has been in how shutdown scripts are called when you select shutdown from the menu. That'll probably be fixed in the next release which is rumored out in the next week or two.

One other thing for programmers is that Apple's developer tools are free and are very nice. They provide and excellent IDE for gcc. (Although you can continue to use makefiles if you wish) They have a very nice interface to gdb as well, although the watch windows don't hold their values between debugging sessions. (Something I've griped to Apple about and is the only thing keeping me from moving from Visual Studio entirely)

Re:Isn't the iBook design childish?

[fafaforza]

The shells of the iBooks are translucent plastic painted on one side (inside I think). You can strip the paint with some chemicals and refinish it with your own translucent paint of any color.

Search slashdot for mac mod, or use google. Should get a few links in the comments section.

Re:Appleworks

[BinxBolling]

Appleworks is only included with the 'consumer' machines -- the iBooks and iMacs. Maybe the eMacs, too.

Student Developer discount

[alikat]

Actually, if you're a student in the US, you can get a high-end TiBook for $2400! You just need to pay for a 1 year membership as a student developer ($99), and then you can order through their ADC Hardware Purchase Program.
Details:
Student Developer Membership
Student Hardware Purchase Program
TiBook in the Hardware Purchase Program

Re:MegaHertz Myth!!

[discstickers]

Since you brought up the XServe, you might want to look at these beQ

Re:Appleworks

[MoneyT]

As far as I know, Apple Works only shipped with the actual machine. CHeck your original CDs, if it's not on the install disc (which it most likely isn't) it's on the Restore disc.

Re:Considering switching to iBook

[MoneyT]

Depends on what you run now, what you still want to run on the iBook. Provide some details as to what you plan on doing with the machine, and I'll point you in the direction of some hopefuly helpful resources. And never forget to ask mac users for help, they can show you how to do anything you need, and most of them won't tell you to RTFM.

Re:A small survey for slashdot

[finkployd]

I've avoided Apple computers all my life. I have worked with all flavors of Unix (except HP-UX), Windows, DOS, and OS/390 in my short career (I'm 24). However lately I noticed that more and more people have iBooks and tiBooks at meetings, conferences, and generally everywhere I go. I work for a largish university (PSU) and am involved in several consortiums like internet2, Educause, etc.

Lately I gave in and started inquiring what all the fuss was about and learned about OS X and started following apple a little closer. Well, to make a long story short, I'm typing this slashdot comment on a flat panel iMac :) So yeah, I never took apple seriously until about a year ago, but now I'm pretty impressed with them and see them making a comeback (if nowhere else, certainly in higher education).

I still use the other operating systems for servers and whatnot, but I will probably end up using OS X as my primary desktop once it gets a little more polished (as cool as it is, it still has a ways to go, but I have no doubt it will get there)

Finkployd

Re:The real clincher - Quake 3 Benchmarks

[Halo1]

Funny you should ask that, those are the only graphics benchmarks Apple posts on their main site for each of their machines. It's at the bottom left of this page for the new iBook (49 fps for the 800MHz model) and at the bottom right of this page for the PowerBook (76 fps for the 1GHz model).

Re:MegaHertz Myth!!

[kasparov]

I was not making a value judgement, merely answering the poster's question. I did say that the floating point op ability of the G4 was impressive--and it is. I don't remember saying anything to the effect of "A Mac is a better computer because it can do lots of flops!"

I say enough stupid things on my own without other people putting words into my mouth.

Re: Any objective benchmarks?

[10Ghz]

Macs generally shine in Photoshop (and it just happens that Photoshop is just about the only benchmark Apple uses when they compare PC's to Macs), but they usually lose in other benchmarks. Clock-for-clock Macs are faster than PC's. But that doesn't help when PC's have double the raw MHz than Macs do.

Re:Linux on Macs?

[djstrehl]

I run Gentoo Linux on my 700 MHz iBook right now. 3D acceleration for X is not working on some machines but 2D runs just fine. The battery life is jsut as good if not better than OSX.

Re:Isn't the iBook design childish?

[phillymjs]

There's nothing wrong with the iBook's design as it is now. The first-generation iBooks with the handle were an acquired taste, but there's absolutely nothing to not love about the current design. I'm typing this on a 12" 500MHz one right now. It's a great machine-- very light, tough, and fits in my backpack wonderfully, and does everything I need it to do at all of my clients' sites. I'm thinking a small part of my bonus check in January might go toward the 800MHz 12" one with the combo drive.

~Philly

Re: performance and Java?

[AssFace]

lol - I hear that.
I'd like to write it all in C, but for the turnaround time and the cross platform nature of it all, I need to do it in Java.
I use the Intel systems as the cheapest/fastest benchmark and then if the clients want to use other things, that is fine by me, but it is up to them.

but I'm not going to personally sit all day on a Mac system to do all the stuff when I know 99% of my customers refuse to use it.

maybe someday I will have the luxury of time to write it all for the various different systems. until then, no mac.

and for the record - look around, Java is just as fast as C++ on many many tasks - but yeah, if you mean C, then yes, far slower.
and I'm too dumb to do it all in assembly :)

Re:Appleworks

[RevAaron]

It's on both the Restore and Install disks that came with my iBook. However, AW6 only comes with "consumer" machines, like the iBook and iMac. The PowerMac and PowerBook do not come with AW for some reason, but come with some other programs that you do not get with the consumer machines. Always seemed kind of silly to me, but as I don't use AW even on my iBook, the point is moot.

Re:It doesn't look like a Toilet Seat!

[MoneyT]

One benefit to the toilet seat design of the old iBooks. Durable as all hell. Take your dell or sony or whatever laptop, hold it verticaly and then drop it from about waist height. I'll bet more than just the door on the CD-ROM breaks.

They Even Updated our Orders!!

[skeeter1001]

Not only did they release the new upgrades -- they contacted those of us that have placed orders which have not shipped yet and offered us an upgrade. Granted -- the upgrade offered was "at no additional cost" even though the new system cost $400 LESS! I pointed that out and they made the necessary adjustments :) WAY TO GO APPLE!

Re:Naturally..

[MoneyT]

Next time you should listen to the people talking about the releases or pay attention to Apple's release schedual. The laptop line has been in need of a revanmp for a while now, and I've been saying it for a while. I actualy expected them in september, but hey, even November is within their average time frame.

Re:Apple proves the 'rumours guys' wrong

[foyle]

The most fun I had last year was making up a rumor out of thin air and sending it to MOSR. I waited a few days and then sent him a similar rumor from a different email address. Two days later he printed it word for word and then went on to say "multiple sources have confirmed blah blah blah".

Needless to say, I'm wracking my brains to come up with a good one to send him prior to MacWorld in January.

Re:damn the high prices

[Hrothgar The Great]

Well, except of course for when the Mac you bought is no longer compatible - with anything! I'd say, given Apple's history of dropping their entire customer base every so often, that if you buy the bottom of the line (iBook or iMac G3 for $800-$1000) you get a pretty reasonable price, but it'll be unsupported in 1-2 years. Buy the top of the line for $3000 and you have maybe 3 years. That's just my opinion, though.

I want one of those iBooks, and they're actually relatively cheap, but I would be too afraid of Apple dropping their support of their slowest stuff in the very near future.

Re:expensive?

[be-fan]

Considering that the memory in the powerbook is SDR RAM, vs the RAM on the Inspiron which is DDR RAM, the Apple memory is quite expensive. Currently, DDR RAM is anywhere from 2x (for 128MB DIMMS) to 4x (for 512MB DIMMS) as expensive as SDR RAM.

Re:MegaHertz Myth!!

[discstickers]

The code in question was a screensaver that was doing floating point math. The original version (ported from x86) was writen using C libray square root calls. The Apple rep then showed code that used PowerPC square root ops. That speeded it up a bit. Then he switched to Altivec vector ops. It speeded it up even move. Finally, he parallazied the loops doing 4 vector ops at a time, for even more speed.

I forget the name of the program, and admit that its a very general way to optimize code. But, for operations that can benefit from optimization, the G4 is a screamer.

Re:expensive?

[dhovis]

Try pricing memory directly from Apple.

Dumbass. Everyone knows 3rd parties are cheaper.

Re:Apple proves the 'rumours guys' wrong

[RestiffBard]

you nkow I can't think of any other company that has prompted so many rumours about it over the years. really what other company gets so many people chomping at the bit to know whats next?

thing thats killing me is that I might not be able to afford one of these new portables until after I move. damn I want one now.

Naturally

[ealar dlanvuli]

This story breaks just 2 hours after my TiBook gets shiped...

Re:ptelnet

[dadragon]

Linux can do console access via ptelnet-Palm M500-iBook.

It uses the visor driver in the stock kernel, and the serial device only exists when it's trying to make a connection. You just start the PPP client on the Palm, then the server on the Linux side, and you can telnet. I have not tried it in OSX yet, but it'd likely take a ppp server, and I don't know if that exists on OSX client.

Re:Considering switching to iBook

[foo12]

Also, last time I checked, Apple was bundling a registered copy of Thorsten Lemke's Graphic Convertor --- it'll open and manipulate damned near any image format.

Re:FireWire 2

[WatertonMan]

It already is guaranteed a niche market - video.

who makes apple's LCDs?

[caveat]

unless the PC is a sony, chances are you will like the mac screen better

well...who supplies apple with pb lcd panels? i'm sure at least a couple of other laptop manufacturers besides sony would use the same panels on their topline machines...

Re:who makes apple's LCDs?

[Tuzanor]

I'm not sure about the laptops, but the desktop apple screens are supplied by LG electronics and you can order PC versions of them, though they don't have the same case as the Mac...

Re:SuperDrive! No Bluetooth???

[phillymjs]

But Apple has been touting the virtues of BlueTooth for nearly a year (January MacWorld) and no machine yet has it built in?

I've been pondering this, and I think it makes sense to not build in BlueTooth just yet. It's not like with 802.11b cards, where most people only have one laptop that they want to connect wirelessly and they won't be swapping the card in and out all the time, and building in the antenna means you won't have a fragile one extending outside of the computer's case. Right now, $40-50 gets you a dinky little USB BlueTooth module, and you only have to buy one to be able to use BlueTooth on all your machines-- not simultaneously, of course, but if you wanted to be able to sync your phone to both your G4 desktop and your iBook, you could do so having bought only one adapter.

If given the choice, I'd rather pay $40 for an adapter I could use on multiple machines just by plugging it in, than pay $40 more for a Mac that had it built in. When BlueTooth adapters get a little cheaper, and more BlueTooth devices get out in the wild, then it'll make sense to put the stuff on the board.

And we do know it's coming, so be patient.

~Philly

in a word

[BiOFH]

"nope" :)

If you paid attention you'd see...

[BiOFH]

that Apple doesn't have to pay them diddly. The /. editors all have had the hots for both the new powerbooks and ibooks as well as OS X. A couple of them finally bought them and now they're fans. It's pretty fucking simple.

Re:DVD-R Superdrive by Toshiba

[dadragon]

Considering my iBook uses a Toshiba DVD/CD-RW combo drive, it wouldn't be surprising to fin that Apple is using a Toshiba drive in the new Powerbooks.

Its hard drive is an IBM TravelStar 40GN too.

Ditto and...

[BiOFH]

...Firewire's life is and will be driven by DV cameras not external disks. As long as the cam manufacturers continue to use Firewire (and Sony is going to, rest assured), then USB will not kill Firewire.

Besides, recent test results have shown that USB may not be the Firewire killer it's touted to be in real-world situations.

Re:damn the high prices

[BinxBolling]

like the jump long ago from 68k to PPC, or the more recent switch to G3/G4

The G3 and G4 are PPC chips. The move to G3s and G4s was not a platform switch.

That feature is built in

[Gregoyle]

Just in case you didn't know, that feature is *built in* to the OS (at least 10.2, I don't know about ealier versions). All you need do is right-click (or ctrl click or whatever) the icon on the desktop and choose "Duplicate". It makes a playable DVD image on the HD. And yes, it does cut down considerably on battery use.

Re:Here's the text of a CNET news story on the top

[jpt.d]

With the faster ATI chip, the iBook can now take advantage of the improved Quartz Extreme graphics engine built into the latest version of Mac OS X. Really? I can do that now with my mobile radeon w/16mb vram on my 700mhz ibook.

Re:Sure it is

[axxackall]

Agree about DRM, but better try it with Gentoo - it will optimize EVERYTHING for your specific hardware, which I cannot tell about Debian, Mandrake or YDL.

Re:Linux on Macs?

[axxackall]

I've tried several Linux/PPC distros (Gentoo, Debian, YDL and LPPC-Q4) on several Mac types (blue, grey, various Powerbooks). As for today Gentoo is the best distro and it's getting better even faster than other distros. All hardware works as under Macos9 and Macosx. And the packaging system (Portage) is just a dream.

Re:SuperDrive! No Bluetooth???

[occam]

Hmm, you make some good points. I guess my judgement is clouded since I have only a PowerBook, and I imagine syncing with my Palm Tungsten T and some BlueTooth phone (e.g., T68i or P800) for mobile wireless. Also, it seems like such a no-brainer, I was sure (perhaps cynically) bluetooth before Radeon 9000 and definitely before SuperDrive. Yet, those both arrived and bluetooth was no show! Even 1GHz made it. All the hard stuff made it, but no bluetooth. Seems odd.

It seems really strange to me that the two portables are updated, and yet bluetooth is most valuable on the portables. Does this mean that Steve won't bluetooth enable the whole product line come January, a year after making a big deal out of bluetooth? If he does update machines, will he now leave out the portables (which could use it most)? That seems really backwards to me.

I was really hoping that today's announcement would be Xserve Raid, with "full" PB and iBook upgrades in January. Now, I'm still waiting to upgrade my PB (and hoping for faster memory, higher resolution, bluetooth, and faster (new?) CPU). Fatter GPU memory would be nice too. :-)

But now I wonder whether bluetooth will have to wait for another 6-9 month rev cycle. Ouch. I do not think they'll update the PB's again in January as that would be only about a month after the latest PB with SuperDrive starts shipping (if they keep their announced 3-4 week shipping schedule). The "optimal" outcome would be for the SuperDrive machines to ship late (i.e., January post-MacWorld) and for them to (surprise, surprise) include bluetooth.

My thinking is that the prime candidate for bluetooth has to be the "Ultimate" PB. So given these (otherwise surprisingly good) upgrades to the PB, does that mean we won't see BT on any Apple for another 6-9 months? Or will Apple simply ship it on non-portables first (weird)?

Par for the course. More Apple suspense. At least this is good suspense (good machines now, better machines later).

Cheers!

I have six words for you...

[phillymjs]

Go here.
SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Zees ees Great!

[duck_prime]

[exchange rates...Macs expensive in Europe...]To the point that it may be worth a trip to NYC to buy a fully loaded PowerBook.

There's always a good excuse to go to Old New York!

I can see you explaining to your wife... "Eet eez for zee cheap Apples, cheri, not zee -- how you say -- parleurs de massage on Times Square"

Disclaimer ... "It's a joke, son" ... relax.

Issues with BT and 802.11b

[Pfhor]

They can't share antennae the last I checked. Although I think apple should make a new airport card that has airport and bluetooth integrated in it (but not share an antenna). That way, any airport capable mac immediately becomes bluetooth ready also. Throw up the 802.11g adapter in the upgrade, and i think it would be worth the $100 for a new card.

Re:damn the high prices

[BinxBolling]

Apple does not 'officially' support them, but I understand that some people are running OS/X on pre-G3 PPCs.

The first G3s were released at the end of 1997. Would you want to run Windows XP on a machine from 1997/98? I doubt it. And if I'm not mistaken, MS only officially supports XP on machines conforming to the PC99 specification (which dates to, you guessed it, 1999). So why aren't you accusing MS of having dropped their entire user base?

My guess is this: Apple appears to 'drop' their user base periodically because Mac users just don't upgrade their machines as often, on average; If you're upgrading your PC every couple of years, it's unlikely that any OS update is going to leave you behind.

Re:Then why is the HD ATA/66 ??

[ealar dlanvuli]

The short answer is most drives can't send much more than 66mbit right now anyway.

The long answer is thats damn fast for a notebook, and if they put a higher rpm on there the spinup would cost twice as much battery.

my answer to the survey is...

[commodoresloat]

CowboyNeal

Re: Any objective benchmarks?

[Twirlip of the Mists]

it just happens that Photoshop is just about the only benchmark Apple uses when they compare PC's to Macs

That's because, if I recall correctly, Photoshop is the single most widely used Mac application in history. In other words, more people have used and continue to use Photoshop on the Mac than any other piece of software, not counting the OS itself. On the other side of the coin, virtually nobody-- when figured as a fraction-- uses Photoshop for Windows. So it's the perfect benchmark for Mac users, and the worst possible one for PC users.

Besides, Macs have never been about being the fastest computers in the world. I have a dual 1 GHz G4-- using it right now-- and it's faster than I am, so I would never know it if it were faster still. Macs are about the overall user experience. Nobody buys a Mac-- especially a Mac laptop-- for the CPU alone.

Re:Considering switching to iBook

[Twirlip of the Mists]

AppleWorks is a perfectly competent office application if you don't need all the features of Office

Most people I know really only need a word processor-- personally, I mean, not for business uses where Excel rules the earth. If that's the case, you can probably get by nicely with TextEdit, which is OS X's equivalent to Microsoft's NotePad. (Actually, it's the latest incarnation of TeachText, but that's another story.)

TextEdit supports reading and writing RTF files for fully formatted text, tab stops, pagination, and so forth and so on. It's perfectly adequate for letters to grandma and such. And it's dead simple to use, and fast, even on older machines.

Re:damn the high prices

[Twirlip of the Mists]

I'd say, given Apple's history of dropping their entire customer base every so often....

Apple has done that twice in the entire 25-year history of their company. First they went from the Motorola 68K architecture to the PowerPC architecture, and eventually they had to drop support for 68K processors in the OS. (Although I'm not sure when that was exactly; OS 8? I know I ran System 7 on a 68K machine.)

Then Apple decided to start, essentially, from scratch on OS X, so they had to draw a line somewhere. Older machines are still fully supported-- you can get AppleCare contracts on old machines, and Apple is still releasing bug fixes for the last few squirmys in OS 9-- but they won't run OS X, at least officially.

Consider that the lifespan of Mac OS Classic (for lack of a better name) was 18 years, from 1984 through 2002. That means it's fair to assume that OS X will be around for about the same amount of time; there's no reason to think that it won't be. And Apple got about 7 years out of the 68K family, and the PowerPC family has been around for about 11 years so far, with no end in sight. (The PowerPC 970 from IBM proves that the PowerPC architecture has a lot of life left in it.)

So you're correct that Apple does have a history of dropping their entire customer base every so often: about once every twelve years, on average. But your assertion that a brand new machine will be unsupported in 1-2 years is-- no offense-- completely nuts.

Re:damn the high prices

[Twirlip of the Mists]

I can get blah blah long list of parts for $1600.

Yes, but you have to assemble it yourself. I bought a brand new Power Mac G4 in August, and I had it up and running with all my software on it in about an hour and fifteen minutes. It hasn't even been turned off since, and I've only rebooted it twice (for 10.2.1 and again for 10.2.2).

Macs are definitely for people, like myself, who don't get any particular kick out of tinkering. If you prefer to tinker, then don't buy a Mac.

Re:Offtopic: What Mac to buy????

[Twirlip of the Mists]

My first consideration was the iBook plus USB fdd but the price quickly shilled her.

This was the point in your post where the little alarm in my head started going off.

You can get an iBook for $1000. If your sister is a student, you can lop a bit off of that price. A built-in CDRW/DVDROM drive will cost you a few hundred bucks more. If these prices "shill" her, then you're probably not going to be able to swing a new Mac. Which is a shame, because it's really the way to go.

I'd suggest finding some way to get the $1000 iBook, but rather than springing for the combo drive, just buy one of those tiny USB keychain drives, like this one. (Not positive that link is going to work. The URL looks temporary. Try it anyway.)

These little widgets cost about $90 and hold 128 MB. If you format it FAT-- or whatever they call the DOS disk format these days-- you should be able to mount it on any Mac or PC that's equipped with USB. Easier to use and faster than a CDRW, and lots cheaper.

Your basic analysis is good, but by far the best advice would be for you to go to the nearest Apple retail store and talk to the folks there. Tell them everything you just posted here, and they'll be able to suggest the right solution for you. You'll also get the side benefit of being able to play with all the machines before you buy one. The only downside is that the new laptops probably won't be in stores for a least a week, and maybe more like two or three.

Good luck.

Re:It doesn't look like a Toilet Seat!

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Absolutely. My girlfriend lugged an original blueberry iBook through medical school, a PhD, and the first year of her surgery residency... and that's just so far. She's beaten that thing like a redheaded stepchild, and hasn't had the first problem with it. It's been by far the most reliable and durable laptop I've ever seen.

Re:Monitor Spanning

[Twirlip of the Mists]

-Can the new Ibook Monitor Span yet?

No. (And in the Mac world, it's not called "monitor spanning." It's simply called using multiple monitors.)

-Is the G3 going to be replaced soon in the Ibook

No.

-How much battery does a 15.x display AND a superdrive eat?

The display eats basically none at all. The PowerBook gets about 4 hours of battery life with Jaguar, plus or minus half an hour, and modulo what you're doing. If you're just word processing and whatnot and you keep the hard drive spun down most of the time, that can easily push the 5 hour mark.

Burning DVDs is sure to eat battery power, so backing up your MP3 collection on a transatlantic flight is probably not the best idea.

Re:Awesome Hardware.

[Twirlip of the Mists]

1. Go to the Accounts system prefs pane; on the Login Options pane, choose the "Name and password" option.

2. Log out, then type ">console" in the user name box.

3. Ta-da.

If you can't get into that, then UNIX is just not for you, sir.

Re:argh

[Twirlip of the Mists]

We decided we'd rather have it "now"

I'm right there with ya. Back in August I impulse-bought-- literally!-- a dual 1 GHz G4 with 17" monitor. I love it. Of course, that was back when I hadn't been laid off by a failing employer, but you can blame that on my own clueless optimism. Hell, at least my new Mac is paid for.

Re:MegaHertz Myth!!

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Are you fucking nuts? That's the single dumbest comment I've ever read at /.

Oh, I don't know. Seems like this one is even dumber.

Re:Sure it is

[Arker]

Gentoo has a PPC port now?

Nit

[Arker]

The short answer is most drives can't send much more than 66mbit right now anyway.

Umm most? Name one that can.

"Faster" EIDE/ATA specs are nothing but marketing hype, there are no drives on the market that can use them anyway, excepting burst transfer from a cache hit which is really going to have no effect since it happens rarely and it's not sustained, so at most you lose a millisecond but gain it right back the next cycle.

It's a little different with SCSI, since you can run several drives simultaneously, but no ones putting multiple hard drives in laptops anyway, for good reasons... weight, heat, power...

Re:Considering switching to iBook

[stux]

OSX comes with Acrobat Reader.

It can create crude .pdfs from any app by printing to preview (which is a PDF).

If you use .doc,.xls and .ppt like you say you do you will need Office X

That should be everything you need

If you find that the built in OSX CD burner software isn't what you want, then get Roxio Toast .

That should about cover it for 'pay for' software.

Re:Offtopic: What Mac to buy????

[stux]

I think the way to go for removable storage is definately a CD-R/CD-RW burner

I wouldn't recommend the keychain doobies...

Main reason... you can't just give someone the disk ;)

The eMac sounds like the perfect machine for her... A G4 has legs, a G3 doesn't

Re:Considering switching to iBook

[mikerich]

I will use iBook for personal stuff, but it would be nice to be able to work on it if and when necessary. Most files I create are .doc and .xls, but I do quite a bit of reading on .pdf and some on .ppt. Can I work with them all on iBook?

Yes you can. Adobe have a full OSX version of their Reader software, and OSX can generate PDF versions of almost anything.

Since you do a lot of work with Office applications you will need a copy of OfficeX for the Mac. Check out the price when you buy your Mac as Apple and Microsoft have some well-priced bundles for Office. If you get Office you'll get the quite lovely Entourage mail program which is really excellent and highly recommended.

One last question: I kind of remember that compatibility issues were solved a way back, but is there any problem at all between documents saved in PC and Mac? Save in one, open in the other, etc?

I haven't found anything important when moving stuff from Mac to PC and vice versa. In a few cases I've found Word documents will loose some font formatting when imported from the PC to the Mac, but that is a matter of moments to fix. Our office is a mixed Mac/PC environment and we get along just fine.

The most common problem I know of is when PC users have Outlook set up to send HTML mail messages. Attachments in that format always come in winmail.dat files that the Mac can't read. Get them to change their mail settings to something normal and everyone is happy.

Best of luck if you do decide to change to the Mac. I'm just wondering if my office PC needs to have an 'accident' so that I can replace it with a G4 desktop :)

Best wishes,
Mike.

Re:Here's the text of a CNET news story on the top

[rweir]

Greg Joswiak?

I don't know why, but I keep getting images of Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs evil love child...*shudder*

Re:Considering switching to iBook

[mikerich]

Thank you, that's VERY useful.

Best wishes,
Mike.

Re:Sure it is

[axxackall]

Yes, Gentoo, as well as most (I count 14) of other popular Linux distros, has its PPC port.

Re:Any way to swap out video card in ibook?

[foniksonik]

If you are willing to void your warranty, do a little soldering and find a good firmware hack, maybe.... well it seems like that would be required but really it probably only requires that you find the graphics chipset somewhere other than on a brand new iBook.

Problem is that ATI doesn't sell them to consumers. If you have a buddy at a licensed Mac service center you could maybe lay your hands on one but this could be a 'ship back to Apple' repair and they wouldn't have any spare cards lying around.

Finally, the point to this is that Apple keeps a really tight grip on these parts and as one Mac reseller told me "We're not allowed to piece out Macs, Apple won't let us".