New Red Hat Beta

Ah linux betas... by Exiler · 2002-12-23 08:07 · Score: 5, Funny

The most unstable of the most stable of the stable desktop OSes... Wait I think I messed that up

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Banaaaana!

Re:Ah linux betas... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:51 · Score: 0

Well, that depends, is the kernel version even or odd? (ouch, headache!) :-)

.....waiting.... by sickboy_macosX · 2002-12-23 08:09 · Score: 1

I am downloading this now, because my Cable Modem is only getting 3.8 K, But from what I have had it works beautifully. It is nice they used 1.2.1 Instead of 1.2 just because of the fact of the bug. From what I have heard the Nvidia GLX and Driver Kernel should work better on this release. So I am crossing my fingers. Yay for redhat, hopefully giving M icrosoft a run for it's money!

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--- /* In Soviet Russia, the Mac OS X kernel panics you! */

Re:.....waiting.... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:14 · Score: 0

I don't understand why you would have to download a whole new release instead of just upgrading the components you already have on your system. It seems RedHat users are always downloading 8 new ISOs and burning CDs, but how in the world could that be necessary just to install a new version of Mozilla and upgrade your NVidia drivers?

I don't get it, mommy.

Finally, ODK added by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:11 · Score: 0

ODK to takedown the DNS

Red Hat Betas Make the Baby Jesus Cry by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:12 · Score: 0

Linux is the voice of Satan. Repent!

Re:Red Hat Betas Make the Baby Jesus Cry by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:06 · Score: 0

its black baby jesus, foolass.

Phobe? by Whatthehellever · 2002-12-23 08:12 · Score: 0

Someone watches the WB's Charmed WAY too much.

--

---
IMHO, of course.
May the SOURCE be with you.

Re:Phobe? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:18 · Score: 0

Dear God, at least read the fucking release announcement.
Re:Phobe? by ACK!! · 2002-12-23 08:23 · Score: 3, Informative

Actually its Phoebe like the character from Friends.

The joke in the changelog or release notes go like this:

"You know, Chandler, you being here is the best gift I could
ask for Christmas."

"Aww. Thanks Pheebs."

"Ok, now where's my real present?"

It is right there in the link on the story if you take a look. Going to wait on this one. Got my 8.0 box running right and just updated the kernel not going to jump right now unless I get a good reason.

--
ACK /ak/ interj. 2. [from the comic strip "Bloom County"] An exclamation of surprised disgust, esp. i
Re:Phobe? by mstyne · 2002-12-23 08:59 · Score: 2

And that person would be you.

--
mstyne: real name, no gimmicks

Re:Another Redhat, more Microsoftalike? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:13 · Score: 0

> Redhat is getting too Microsofty for my likings.
Can you say me where i can get WMP for RedHat please ?

choices choices choices by k3v0 · 2002-12-23 08:13 · Score: 1

i was going to get mandrake 9 but maybe i'll see how this version of RH does. i may not though, just because the server list quotes friends....

Re:choices choices choices by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:55 · Score: 0

i just installed mandrake 9 for my father-in-law. wow. all graphical.. tons of programs.... all the hardware was detected automagically... except winmodem of course. The only thing that has a way to go is; the cd burning software. Gnomecombust doesn't want to work at all... and Xcdroast needed to be setup by root first and then it worked ok.. but it isn't very intuitive to the average user. Then again... cd writing in windows XP is pretty damn confusing at first. :-P
Re:choices choices choices by kableh · 2002-12-23 10:12 · Score: 2

Try CDBakeOven, good stuff. XCDRoast works, but is so painful to use I would rather use mkisofs and cdrecord at the command line.
Re:choices choices choices by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 10:48 · Score: 0

I was a mandake user forever, 9 was nice but.... Take a look at redhat 8.0. very, very, nice. All my boxes are redhat 8.0 now.
Re:choices choices choices by JCCyC · 2002-12-24 05:02 · Score: 2

I like Eroaster. Try it.

Does this mean... by starseeker · 2002-12-23 08:14 · Score: 2

we might finally see java and other plugins compiled for glibc 2.3? Those have been lacking for quite a while now.

--
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org

Re:Does this mean... by Tomah4wk · 2002-12-23 08:19 · Score: 2, Informative

we might finally see java and other plugins compiled for glibc 2.3? Those have been lacking for quite a while now. They havent, blackdown has been producing them. Their version (especially java web start) is much better than that produced by Sun. And its based off of the sun sources before you ask.
Re:Does this mean... by caseih · 2002-12-23 08:19 · Score: 1

I believe that the latest builds of Mozilla 1.2.1 for redhat (from mozilla.org) are configured to build with gcc-2.96. Apparently in the CVS, the plugin-related code now implements some symbol fixups to allow older plugins to work even when mozilla is compiled completely with 3.2. This includes the java plugins.

I've been running my own build of mozilla 1.2.1 with xft and galeon on RedHat 8.0. All the plugins work fine (everything was build with gcc296).
Re:Does this mean... by starseeker · 2002-12-23 08:57 · Score: 2

I hadn't tried blackdown. Really does work. Thanks!

--
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
Re:Does this mean... by chez69 · 2002-12-23 09:32 · Score: 1

try this:

export LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5

and see if it fixes your java problems.

--
PHP is the solution of choice for relaying mysql errors to web users.
Re:Does this mean... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-24 00:00 · Score: 0

in my Gentoo i have had glibc 2.3.1 for a month, noone to wait for, just emerge -u glibc, ah and i have all the sistem prelinked too.

I'll wait for the next beta ... by burgburgburg · 2002-12-23 08:14 · Score: 2, Funny

Monica.

My servers were really slowed down when I tried the Ross, and the network kept crashing after I installed the Joey.

Re:I'll wait for the next beta ... by Em+Emalb · 2002-12-23 08:19 · Score: 1

Ah, you need the patch for Monica. It's the Bing Package, v2.1. It has a spastic theme.

Oh, the Ross flavor works well, but only if you have dinosaurs for wall paper.

I'm personally waiting for the Rachel version myself. I hear it's due out sometime in 2004.

--
Sent from your iPad.
Re:I'll wait for the next beta ... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:22 · Score: 0

Psyche and Phoebe are from Greek mythology.
Re:I'll wait for the next beta ... by MrJones · 2002-12-23 08:22 · Score: 1

I will wait until Ray-Ray RedHat :-)

--
Get my e-mail after a captcha test in: http://tinymailt
Re:I'll wait for the next beta ... by agentZ · 2002-12-23 08:25 · Score: 2

I thought the next beta would be "The One with the Red Hat."
Re:I'll wait for the next beta ... by fymidos · 2002-12-23 08:28 · Score: 1

Ah, well, chandler comes with many more fortune cookies, allthough i liked the joey with all those sexy wallpapers..

But i agree monica is the best for servers, It seems everything is in order on that one.

--
Washington bullets will simply be known as the "Bulle
Re:I'll wait for the next beta ... by dspasovski · 2002-12-23 08:29 · Score: 1

Yeah, I hope they stick with Phoebe. And the promotion will be going with the main theme:

Smelly cat, smelly cat
What are they feeding you?
Smelly cat, smelly cat
It's not your (seg)fault

And to keep it on topic, let's hope Phoebe will organize the zillion kinds of "Settings" sub-menus under the main BlueCurve menu into one global.
Re:I'll wait for the next beta ... by Mr.+Fusion · 2002-12-23 08:43 · Score: 1

You should have seen "Chandler" and some of its error messages:
Could you debug any worse?
Oh wait, I left my compiler in my other jacket.
And don't get me started on how many times it quit smoking.
-Mr. Fusion
Re:I'll wait for the next beta ... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:03 · Score: 0

dooooooood. Friends is the bigadeebomb!

8.0 was great, but... by MrZeebo · 2002-12-23 08:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

...it left me feeling it could have been much better. It showed promise, but had a few faults which keep it just short of being, well... perfect. I always felt that if Red Hat addressed just a few concerns, 8.1 could be great. Problems, in my opinion, were:

*Lack of NTFS support by default: Near-neccessary for 2000/XP dual-booters

*That silly "Extras" menu: you never quite know where software is going to turn up

*Lack of a good package management front-end: That Windows-like one they include is good for managing the software on the RH8 CDs, but for removing, installing, and upgrading third-party RPMs, one must resort either to the command line, or better yet, apt4rpm. Apt4rpm should be in by default.

*No MP3 support in XMMS

*DMA is off by default on CD-ROM drives. This is easily fixed through config files, but for the average user, this is a hurdle to DVD playing and CD burning.

*No nVidia drivers

These were all easily fixed if you knew what you were doing, but kept RH8 out of the realm of being usable for average people -- or even being usable out of the box for techies. Does anyone know if any of these gripes have been addressed?

Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:27 · Score: 0

Good list. Can I add MENU EDITING. That what really drives me nuts about RH 8.0.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:28 · Score: 0

No MP3 support in XMMS

This is because of the MP 3 licence. Since it is posible for Redhat to be sold, the MP 3 licence says you (Redhat) must pay to have it. Now as a free download component, it is not sold and can be distributed. Redhat had two choices, either have one download version (with MP3) and one 'for sale' version (without MP3) with downloadable MP3 add on or one version without MP3. Redhat chose the second choice so they dont have to keep 2 different deliverable lines for the operating system.

No nVidia drivers

The actual drivers from what I have been told are binaries with compilable wrappers. Since the nvidia drivers are not GPL'ed they can not add it to the deliverable. But in my opinion, nVidia has bent over backwords to give more then most video card companies, so I personally have no complaints about them wanting to keep how thair propriatary driver works, as long as they keep them up to date as they seem to be doing.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by KingKire64 · 2002-12-23 08:30 · Score: 1

And if im correct all of these are addressed in Mandrake 9

--
"All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:31 · Score: 1, Informative

I agree with you except for these three points:

* Lack of NTFS support.

I was under the impression that NTFS support wasn't complete. I can't fault Red Hat for witholding a feature that doesn't work reliably.

If NTFS support is actually working now, then you are right.

* No MP3 support in XMMS

They would have to pay royalties. Distributions who aren't paying the royalties are breaking the law. It sucks, but I can't fault them for this.

* DMA is off by default on CD-ROM drives

There are too many broken chipsets around. For example, our HP tc4100s crash hard when you do DMA operations to the CD drive. We found this out the painful way.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:31 · Score: 0

That is incorrect. Red Hat's lawyers are clearly unable to read, and it would appear that you are as well.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:36 · Score: 0

DMA is off by default
I mean what the hell is it off for anyway? I installed RedHat 7.3 some time ago and it too had DMA switched off. Not only was the CD-ROM DMA off but /dev/hda was also using PIO.
It took me some time to realize that the lack of DMA was the reason why the mouse movement and screen refresh were completely blocked by CD-ROM or HD access...
Re:8.0 was great, but... by caluml · 2002-12-23 08:37 · Score: 2

The NTFS thing is such a large thing to miss out - maybe they do it for licencing reasons, but if it's just out of bloody mindedness, well, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Lots more people are asking me (The 'Linux guy' ) to help them install Linux so they can try it out. And I curse Redhat for not including NTFS support. Sure, you can build your own kernel - but these are people that have never used Linux before. I know, I can do it myself, and build RPMs for them, but I roll my own as I use 3rd party patches.

And with a dual-boot machine, you have to remove the necessity for them to reboot back into Windows, for once they do that, they remember how simple everything is (to them) and it's hard to drag them back to Linux land.

The menu systems do suck, I must admit. Preferences, Server settings, System tools, System settings, and Control Panel. Anyone care to guess where a gui change password tool would be? All you need is: Prefs, System tools, games, media, office.
And RedHat! For gods sake put a link to the konsole on the "Quick launch" thing. Start, System tools, Terminal is not at all useful.

Has any one else noticed that when you do a man in KDE in RH 8, you get little boxes instead of dashes?

And people, if you haven't used RedHat recently, don't slag it off. RPM isn't that bad either.

--
Get your own free personal location tracker
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:38 · Score: 0

read-only NTFS support has been around for a LONG time but write access is very buggy.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:39 · Score: 0

You need to try reading the licensing information. Better yet, just try reading at all.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by justanumber · 2002-12-23 08:43 · Score: 1

MP3 Licence costs USD 60k even BEOS could afford it.. Redhat can't ?

I have source NVIDIA GLX and kernel tarballs here.

Why don't you check your facts before posting or at least post to comp.os.windows or something?
Re:8.0 was great, but... by noshellswill · 2002-12-23 08:45 · Score: 0

Hummmmmm .. no N-Vidia drivers ? My CT_GF2-mx400 displayed OKey out-of-the-box. 'Course i don't do 3-D games, but nobody that counts ( pays for the RedHat CDs ) does either.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by The+Analog+Kid · 2002-12-23 08:45 · Score: 1

Actually 7.3 out of the box with no kernel updates had DMA turned off by default but you could enable it with hdparms.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Majix · 2002-12-23 08:51 · Score: 2

The NTFS thing is such a large thing to miss out - maybe they do it for licencing reasons, but if it's just out of bloody mindedness, well, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Red Hat is not including it because the legal status of the driver is unclear. Same thing as with the MP3 decoders and royalty payments, personally I think they're being too cautious.

You don't however have to recompile your kernel just to get NTFS support! It's just one module you need, a single file. Grab it here in convinient RPM format.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by JWW · 2002-12-23 08:52 · Score: 3, Interesting

You are correct, Mandrake 9 fixed almost all of these issues. This new version will have a long way to go before it even catches up with Mandrake.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by MSG · 2002-12-23 08:56 · Score: 3, Informative

MP3 Licence costs USD 60k even BEOS could afford it.. Redhat can't ?

Doesn't matter, licensing MP3 technology from Thompson is not an option. The GPL requires that all recipients of the software be free to use the software in any way (including resale) without license fees. If that can not be the case, as with patent fees, then the software can simply not be distributed. It's very clear on this, so the GPL does not allow anyone to redistribute MP3 software in areas where it is patented and requires that license fees be paid to Thompson for commercial use. The GPL was an inappropriate license for those pieces of software, if their goal was for redistribution everywhere. The software can still be redistributed in places where the MP3 technology is not patented, though.

I have source NVIDIA GLX and kernel tarballs here.

Yes, and those source tarballs contain a binary only module compiled with gcc 3.0 (which is known to cause problems, mixing gcc 3.2 kernel with modules from earlier compiler is a no-no) and a couple of source files which glue it in to the kernel's API. Red Hat is not free to redistribute them, and they would not even if they were free to do so. Without the source, Red Hat can not support the drivers.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Patoski · 2002-12-23 08:59 · Score: 1, Informative

*Lack of NTFS support by default: Near-neccessary for 2000/XP dual-booters

Last I heard NTFS support is very unreliable. You could very well end up trashing your file system if you attempt to write to an NTFS file system. It seems prudent to leave this turned off. It would be nice if FAT partitions were stuck in fstab automatically during the install though.

*That silly "Extras" menu: you never quite know where software is going to turn up
*Lack of a good package management front-end: That Windows-like one they include is good for managing the software on the RH8 CDs, but for removing, installing, and upgrading third-party RPMs, one must resort either to the command line, or better yet, apt4rpm. Apt4rpm should be in by default.

Amen! Red Hat's menu's are attrocious. Apt4Rpm is a beautiful thing. Make a prettly little GUI for the newbies as well, please. :-)

*DMA is off by default on CD-ROM drives. This is easily fixed through config files, but for the average user, this is a hurdle to DVD playing and CD burning.

I think this was a performance/compatibility comprimise that RH made because many of their customers use devices like optical drives which wouldn't work if DMA were turned on by default.

*No MP3 support in XMMS
*No nVidia drivers

I'm actually glad Red Hat did these two. It helps raise awareness of licensing problems with these two pieces of software. It is a stand on principles. Of course whether or not you agree with this stance is another matter but RH has been consistent on points of licensing at least.

I'd also add to the gripe list that Red Hat 8 (as far as I can tell) didn't come with a menu editor prinstalled.

Other than that it was absolutely perfect! Bluecurve is a work of art...

--
G. Washington on Government "it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:06 · Score: 0

I don't want to be raising awareness of licensing or standing on principles. I want software that works. Oh well.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by MrZeebo · 2002-12-23 09:11 · Score: 1

Last I heard NTFS support is very unreliable. You could very well end up trashing your file system if you attempt to write to an NTFS file system.
Writing is unreliable, but at the very least it seems to make sense to at least include the ability to read NTFS partitions. People can get by without writing, but reading can be very useful. I got it working in RH8, but only after a lot of research on Google. Funny thing was, it didn't require any extra downloads -- everything neccessary comes with RH8, you just need to mess with the kernel a bit. Seems like a no-brainer to include read suport by default
I'd also add to the gripe list that Red Hat 8 (as far as I can tell) didn't come with a menu editor prinstalled.
Yes, I definitely forgot this by accident. If we had this, the "extras" menu wouldn't be so badf... we could just move programs out of there and into the menus they belong in!
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:12 · Score: 0

Lots more people are asking me (The 'Linux guy' ) to help them install Linux so they can try it out. And I curse Redhat for not including NTFS support.

Give them a Knoppix live CD to try out Linux. It reads NTFS and it plays MP3 (as well as many other formats). And all it takes it is booting a CD.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:23 · Score: 0

Yeah, and the fact that Mandrake has to resort to BEGGING THE GOD DAMN COMMUNITY says more about the distro than you could ever tell us.

Oh, and Mandrake has butt-ugly icons and naming every god damn program something like "HardDrake" is really fucking annoying. Don't you see how silly that sounds? And for christ's sake, it's just letting your modify your partitions and things. It's not a groundbreaking thing. At least Redhat calls it by it's disk editing program by it's function, and doesn't give it some lame-ass name like "HardDrake"
Re:8.0 was great, but... by binner1 · 2002-12-23 09:28 · Score: 2, Informative

Try in Nautilus: Ctrl+L and enter applications:///

It's not obvious, but it seems that menu editing and arrangement are done through Nautilus now, as opposed to a stand-along menu manager.

I could be wrong on this, so please correct me if I am.

-Ben
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:36 · Score: 0

Nope, you're entirely correct. You legend.. that has been bugging me for ages...
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:42 · Score: 0
MP3 Licence costs USD 60k even BEOS could afford it.. Redhat can't ?
Congradulations, Mr. JustANumber. You have just nominated yourself to make JustANumberOS. It works as follows:
- Download the lates RedHat 8.1 beta
- Add MP3 support to XMMS
- Pay Franhoffer $60k for a license to distribute the decoder
- Give away this mod of RedHat.
Yes, Mr. JustANumber. We are asking you to pay the $60k yourself. I will give you my undying thanks once this is done; don't expect any money from me, however.
You can make a mark on the free software world!
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:47 · Score: 0

Hello, Mr. Legal expert. I am glad that you shared your great legal knowledge with us.
You are free to distribute your own version of RedHat. Let's call it AnonymousTrollOS, because that is what you are.
This will be a version of RedHat 8.1 beta with full MP3 support. Since your lawyers were able to read something the rest of the world couldn't (or were taking some drugs which made them read something we weren't), I am sure you can do this, with full GPL support, once you yourself pay the $60k license fee. You have all kinds of lawyers, the $60k fee should be nothing to pay.
Post a story to slashdot once AnonymousTrollOS is ready to download.
Yes, I know. IHBT. HTH. HAND.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by pyros · 2002-12-23 09:48 · Score: 2

You don't even have to build a whole kernel. Here's what I do after installing a new kernel (and the kernel-source).

cd /usr/src/linux-2.4
make mrproper
make xconfig
( load a file from /usr/src/linux-2.4/configs )
( enable NTFS module support )
( save & exit )
( set EXTRAVERSION in Makefile to match the kernel rpm )
make dep && clean
make _mod_fs
mkdir /lib/modules//kernel/fs/ntfs
cp fs/ntfs/ntfs.o \ /lib/modules//kernel/fs/ntfs
depmod -a

I admit it's close to compiling a new kernel, but you still get to run the stock binray kernel RPM and add the one module.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by justanumber · 2002-12-23 09:48 · Score: 1

Acutally Mr Anonymous Smartass, I already have:

http://www.gurulabs.com/files/xmms-1.2.7-13.p.sr c. rpm

Your undying thanks are not necessary, just a long drivelling apology will do ;)
Re:8.0 was great, but... by captaineo · 2002-12-23 09:51 · Score: 2

Presumably NTFS is off by default because the code is a work in progress and writing to it may corrupt your filesystem. Also NVIDIA doesn't allow redistribution of its binary drivers. The other points are reasonable...
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Decimal · 2002-12-23 10:35 · Score: 2

*Lack of NTFS support by default: Near-neccessary for 2000/XP dual-booters

Unless you're a FAT32 user, such as myself. :)

--

Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 11:15 · Score: 0

Rest of the world? You'll notice only Red Hat is shipping a crippled media player(s). Kinda makes you wonder what they can't figure out that everyone else can, huh?
Re:8.0 was great, but... by flud · 2002-12-23 11:48 · Score: 1

Here is a simple solution for adding NTFS support to a RedHat 8.0/7.3 installation:

http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/info/redhat.html
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 11:54 · Score: 0

Good addition. And can I add PRINTER SHARE BROWSING.
Knoppix, XandrOS, and Lindows allowed me to browse the network for shared printers to add in their printer config, but with RedHat, I have to already know the path.
This was the 2nd most annoying thing after not having NTFS available by default.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 12:05 · Score: 0

In KDE, right click on the Red Hat menu button and select "Menu Editor".
Re:8.0 was great, but... by stor · 2002-12-23 12:15 · Score: 1

*Lack of a good package management front-end:

Well, for _installing_ there's a helper in Nautilus for RPMs in RH8. It's called redhat-install-packages. Double-click an RPM... (it will prompt for the root password)

Cheers
Stor

--
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
Re:8.0 was great, but... by StillAnonymous · 2002-12-23 12:34 · Score: 2

You can get an kernel-module RPM package for RedHat 7.3 and 8.0 that gives you instant NTFS (read-only) support, which is probably good enough for most users:

http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/info/redhat.ht ml
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 14:15 · Score: 0

RedHat figured out how to make a little money, which makes them a target. The rest of them figured out how to be near insolvancy.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 15:21 · Score: 0

Yeah, I'm glad they only include stable things that never trash your filesystem like kernel 2.4.18.... oops, wait....
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 17:16 · Score: 0

> The NTFS thing is such a large thing to miss out - maybe they do it for licencing reasons, but if it's just out of bloody mindedness, well, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Or, maybe they do it because read support is fine, but writing can result in a trashed NTFS filesystem. Not so good. If mounted readonly, *someone* would post about lousy NTFS support ("Geez, I can't write to my XP partition! What's wrong with this Red Hat software, anyway?..") or worse, enable it and be one of the trashed filesystem victims. Bad publicity either way, and Red Hat doesn't want that kind of publicity.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 17:18 · Score: 0

> Also NVIDIA doesn't allow redistribution of its binary drivers.

The drivers don't have to be redistributed; my distro (Libranet) includes a script to download the NVidia driver/GLX tarballs, build and repackage them as .debs and install them. Surely Red Hat's script gurus could do the same?..
Re:8.0 was great, but... by harks · 2002-12-23 18:27 · Score: 1

I doubt you have the source NVIDIA drivers as they are closed source, and this is the reason they are not included with RH8
Re:8.0 was great, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 21:51 · Score: 0

And, of course, you paid whoever-owns-mp3 $60,000 so that this version of XMMS is fully licensed??

Well, then, let me get down on my knees and thank you from the bottom of my heart. Alas, I am not any of young, pretty, nor female, so I can't reward you as much as I would like.

(Since you have $60k to blow on something like this, I am sure that money is one of the last things you need right now. NOt that it matters, I am a poor student)

- Anonymous Smartass
Re:8.0 was great, but... by owlstead · 2002-12-23 23:03 · Score: 1

*Lack of NTFS support by default: Near-neccessary for 2000/XP dual-booters
This was my first problem with RedHat too. Installing the OS was no problem, but how to play my MP3's? There is only so much work I can do without music. And all the songs are on an NTFS partition. OK, so it is unstable. As long as it doesn't crash my kernel, leave it in read only mode! Note that Mandrake has NTFS support in its latest incarnation. I didn't catch that DMA off, thanks for that. One problem that most users will find is that normal IDE cd drives are detected as /dev/hdc instead of the scsi variant. This makes copying of cd's a lot more difficult for the average user. Setting up the nvidia drivers wasn't that difficult though. 2 RPM commands and I was there. Thank god for forums though, without some posts on the nvidia forums this would have been much more difficult. Warper
Re:8.0 was great, but... by jaavaaguru · 2002-12-24 03:52 · Score: 2

Natilus won't let me write to anywhere within applications:/// - it just lets me browse it.

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Follow me
Re:8.0 was great, but... by binner1 · 2002-12-24 10:16 · Score: 1

Try it as root...

-Ben
Re:8.0 was great, but... by BJH · 2002-12-24 21:22 · Score: 1

The licensing terms on MP3 prevent redistribution under the GPL. So, no MP3. It's not a matter of money.

You most certainly don't have Nvidia source - what you have is source wrappers around a binary module.

How about you check your "facts" first?
Re:8.0 was great, but... by justanumber · 2002-12-25 00:34 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Go fuck yourself.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by BJH · 2002-12-25 00:54 · Score: 1

Guess what - when you grow up, you'll find that telling people to "go fuck themselves" when you're wrong will quickly lose you your friends and your job.

Ah, who am I kidding - you're never going to get out of your parents' basement anyway, so what difference does it make? You'll never have any friends, and the only job you could hold down is as a jumbo-size paperweight.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by BJH · 2002-12-25 01:00 · Score: 1

Oh, by the way, it looks like you've been bitchslapped - and after only twelve comments! A real achievement! I guess the /. editors do their jobs once in a while after all.

Have a nice day, chump.
Re:8.0 was great, but... by bfree · 2002-12-25 03:36 · Score: 2

Add in KNOPPIX's Debian roots, the potential to install the system, the default initial setup is useful and has excellent (in my experience) hardware detection (also useful as a diagnosic tool to figure out a PC). The other thing to give someone if you give them KNOPPIX and/or a distro is to give them ASPLinux as it can non-destructively resize NTFS partitions and it costs nothing (it's not Free(dom) but there's nothing to do the job that is, they licensed a commercial tool and built it into their installer).

--
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Re:8.0 was great, but... by juhaz · 2002-12-25 03:43 · Score: 1

Write support must be enabled when compiling the kernel (because it's experimental), if it's not on, you CAN NOT trash your filesystem by mere mount options.

The confusion point is valid, people would probably expect write support if they could read their files as well and complaint if it didn't work.

News Flash by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:15 · Score: 0

Red Hat just announced a new beta, codenamed Phoebe. Their highlight list includes security features which allow attackers to gain root access right out of the box.

Since the new was already by denisbergeron · 2002-12-23 08:16 · Score: 1

on LinuxToday and on DistroWatch, the site and all the mirrors was already slashdotted or mayby linuxtodayed or DistroWatched (I like this one).
Anyway, somebody can post the release note :-)

--
Ceci n'est pas une Signature !

Re:Another Redhat, more Microsoftalike? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:16 · Score: 0

Use Slackware or Gentoo then.

Nice features by frooyo · 2002-12-23 08:16 · Score: 3, Informative

First, this is old news at OSnews here but also ... here is a small list of features to come:

Gnome 2.2
New HTree enable filesystem for ext3 (speeds enhancement). The HTree feature makes file creation, deletion, and lookup faster. On filesystems that have HTree enabled, these file operations should not get significantly slower as the directory grows in size.
XFree 4.3
CUPS is default

but also note SENDMAIL is now only configured for LOCALHOST, if you want to serve you have to do some modifications:
To use Sendmail as a server
By default, the Sendmail mail transport agent (MTA) does not accept network connections from any host other than the local computer. If you want to configure Sendmail as a server for other clients, you must edit /etc/mail/sendmail.mc and change the DAEMON_OPTIONS line to also listen on network devices (or comment out this option entirely using the dnl comment delimiter). You must then regenerate /etc/mail/sendmail.cf by running the following command (as root): m4 /etc/mail/sendmail.mc > /etc/mail/sendmail.cf Note that you must have the sendmail-cf package installed for this to work.

The RELEASE NOTES can be found HERE

NOTE: There has been problems upgrading if one if using Ximian Gnome, you must uninstall then reinstall using Gnome form gnome.org

Re:Nice features by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:24 · Score: 0

Where's WindowMaker?
Re:Nice features by kelnos · 2002-12-23 08:39 · Score: 1

but also note SENDMAIL is now only configured for LOCALHOST, if you want to serve you have to do some modifications:
why is this listed as a "but"? imho this is a good thing. makes it even harder to 'accidentally' turn your machine into an open mail relay...

--
Xfce: Lighter than some, heavier than others. Just right.
Re:Nice features by Mas3 · 2002-12-23 09:00 · Score: 0, Troll

> Gnome 2.2
Have Red Hat still a castrated Version of KDE ??

--
Stefan

DevCounter - An open, free & independent developer pool
created to help developers find other developers, help, testers and new project members.
Re:Nice features by damiam · 2002-12-23 09:13 · Score: 1

It does not and never did have a castrated version of KDE. Stop trolling.

--
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Re:Nice features by fymidos · 2002-12-23 09:23 · Score: 2, Informative

Sendmail was like this from 7.2 if i recall..

--
Washington bullets will simply be known as the "Bulle
Re:Nice features by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:25 · Score: 0

No. However, thanks to Redhat, I'm swithing my users over to KDE.
Re:Nice features by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:49 · Score: 0

You've obviously never tried to shut down your computer from KDE.
Re:Nice features by HiThere · 2002-12-23 10:06 · Score: 2

/sbin/shutdown -g 0
That's right isn't it?
(I don't usually bother with that approach.)
Of course there's always: /sbin/init 6
That should also work.
I haven't checked, these might need to be executes as superuser, so you'd need a password. Should be trivial.

Perhaps you really meant that the KDE menu logout only logs you out. If that's your biggest problem, then you have no complaints. My version has a broken version of KOffice installed. So far I haven't figured out what to do about it, but I suspect this is what is causing people to say that Red Hat's KDE is broken. They also configured a version of kppp that would hang the process if you installed it as a panel icon and clicked on it. This was solved by removing the parameters that they passed. And they made a remarkable number of truely goofy icon changes. I'm still re-learning which icon means what.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Nice features by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 10:52 · Score: 0

once you get it, add this:

http://www.fewt.com/wmakermenu/

saw that while reading OSNews
Re:Nice features by Issue9mm · 2002-12-23 12:47 · Score: 1

I had the same problem, but in Gnome. You can always change them back. In almost every case I've seen so far, they keey the original icons for ever application installed, it's just not the default icon that they use.

It was quite offputting at first though, when I was showing my wife how easy Linux was, and couldn't figure out what icon meant what. Granted, none of them meant anything to her (except Mozilla, which we were using under Windows), but still.

-9mm-

There goes my bandwidth by Znonymous+Coward · 2002-12-23 08:17 · Score: 4, Informative

I was downloading at 300k till all the mirrors were slashdotted. Oh well, might as well Karma Whore.

Note: Remove spaces from URLs:

Soviet Russia
ftp://ftp.chg.ru/pub/Linux/redhat/linux/be ta/phoeb e/
http://ftp.chg.ru/pub/Linux/redhat/linux/beta/ phoe be/

Canada
ftp://ftp.nrc.ca/pub/systems/linux/redha t/ftp.redh at.com/linux/beta/phoebe/

USA East
ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu/pub/redhat/linux/beta/ phoebe /
ftp://mirror.eas.muohio.edu/mirrors/redhat/linu x/b eta/phoebe/
ftp://ftp.gtlib.cc.gatech.edu/pub/red hat/linux/bet a/
http://www.gtlib.cc.gatech.edu/pub/redhat/linu x/be ta/phoebe/
ftp://redhat.dulug.duke.edu/pub/redhat /linux/beta/ phoebe/
ftp://mirror.hiwaay.net/redhat/redhat/lin ux/beta/p hoebe/
http://mirror.hiwaay.net/redhat/redhat/lin ux/beta/ phoebe/
ftp://mirror.cs.princeton.edu/pub/mirrors /redhat/l inux/beta/phoebe/
ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/redhat/ beta/phoebe/
ftp://chuck.ucs.indiana.edu/pub/linu x/redhat/redha t/linux/beta/phoebe/
ftp://mirror.pa.msu.edu/linu x/redhat/linux/beta/ph oebe/
ftp://ftp.cse.buffalo.edu/pub/Linux/redhat/ redhat/ linux/beta/phoebe/
ftp://kickstart.linux.ncsu.edu /pub/redhat/linux/be ta/phoebe/

USA Central
ftp://linux.nssl.noaa.gov/linux/redhat/li nux/beta/ phoebe/
ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/red hat/linux /beta/phoebe/
http://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/ pub/redhat/linu x/beta/phoebe/
rsync://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.ed u/pub/redhat/lin ux/beta/phoebe/
ftp://mirror.cs.wisc.edu/pub/mirr ors/linux/redhat/ beta/phoebe/
ftp://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/redhat/ redhat/linux/b eta/phoebe/
http://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/redhat/linu x/beta/phoebe /
http://redhat.netnitco.net/redhat/linux/beta/ph oeb e/

USA West
ftp://limestone.uoregon.edu/redhat/beta/phoe be/

Pacific
Australia
ftp://planetmirror.com/pub/r edhat/linux/beta/phoeb e/
ftp://mirror.pacific.net.au/linux/redhat/redha t/li nux/beta/phoebe/
http://redhat.pacific.net.au/red hat/linux/beta/pho ebe/

Hawaii
ftp://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors/redha t/linux/be ta/phoebe/

--

Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.

Re:There goes my bandwidth by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:19 · Score: 0

Why do people leech off the main site, then come here and preach to the rest of /. that they should use the mirrors?

Whats with the "do what I say not what I do" attitude. If you'd been on a mirror in the first place you wouldnt be in your conundrum.
Re:There goes my bandwidth by monkubus · 2002-12-23 08:34 · Score: 1

No idea if anybody's ever mentioned this, or if you're even interested. Anyways, I think it's GetRight, a download manager for Windows, has a nifty mirror search accessible without the app itself.

http://www.filemirrors.com

Thing is, you have to know the actual filename, or at least part of it. In the case at hand, "Phoebe"should get you a good listing, but searching by the entire filename would improve your results. Back when Mandrake 9 came out, and the usual hotspots were swamped, I was able to nab it using this site with hardly any effort. Just one more tool in the arsenal. Hope it helps someone, anyone.
Re:There goes my bandwidth by jon787 · 2002-12-23 13:00 · Score: 1

Soviet Russia

ftp://ftp.chg.ru/pub/Linux/redhat/linux/beta/pho eb e/

http://ftp.chg.ru/pub/Linux/redhat/linux/beta/ph oe be/

In soviet russia......

*ducks*

--
X(7): A program for managing terminal windows. See also screen(1).

No thanx. by Martigan80 · 2002-12-23 08:17 · Score: 3, Insightful

Sorry but if it is like 8.0 they can keep it. I'm still running fine with 7.3. I appreciate the intense struggle for RH and other companies to improve their distro to help the community out, but are they not trying a little too hard to keep pushing out the newest release? I mean it almost feels like the CPU race where we are told that a 900Mhz is too slow to keep up with a 1.4GHz. It just seems a bit over kill. I'm not blaming RH, at least they make sure their Distro is beat and tested against many arch's and problems.
I know this is a beta but come on, when was 8.0 released??

--
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)

Re:No thanx. by xchino · 2002-12-23 08:31 · Score: 2

This is a beta version to a .1 release.. not a full release. In Redhat terms 8.0 is an alpha, 8.1 is beta, so this release is a beta of the beta of the redhat 8 series. Old bugs will have been replaced by new ones, but by the 8.2 or 8.3 release all the Redhat children will be as happy as with 7.3. I mean, consider the diff b/w 7.0 and 7.3.

Basically my point is that this beta release wasn't all that soon after the initial 8.0. This is just the way redhat works.

--
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
Re:No thanx. by reaper20 · 2002-12-23 08:37 · Score: 2

If you want slower, more tested releases, then RH offers their Advanced Server product with a lifetime of at least 18 months, or you can use Debian which has a slower lifecycle.

There's no reason why their normal distribution should sit around on its laurels, when there's GTK2/XFT Mozilla and new glib changes for the rest of us to play with.
Re:No thanx. by ajs · 2002-12-23 08:38 · Score: 2

Red Hat has always released about every 6 months. Did you think this was a problem back at 4.0?
Re:No thanx. by RealSurreal · 2002-12-23 08:44 · Score: 1

In my experience RH gets better the more point releases it goes through - hence, I'm running 7.3 cause of various problems I had with 8.0. I'm looking forward to 8.1, 8.2 whatever so I can get the new features without losing some of the existing ones (like my adsl modem driver not compiling).
Re:No thanx. by Rykky · 2002-12-23 09:05 · Score: 1

With all due respect, how long do you think it takes to make a working distro like Red Hat's ? :) I know it's not been long since 8.0 was released, but it's not like they are going to sit on their hands for a few months doing nothing and then throw something together in a week or two and release that. I'm pretty sure that this beta doesnt mean a new release is coming any time soon.
Re:No thanx. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:29 · Score: 0

What bullshit.
Alpha == Alpha
Beta == Beta
Release == Release
Don't give me bullshit that "8.0 means Alpha". If you give it a version number, that means it's RELEASE. Are you saying that the Redhat sales people who keep calling my IT department are trying to sell us ALPHA software?
If you want to call it alpha, you go "8.0a1" or "8.0-Alpha" or "Pre-8.0". Don't make apologies for Crappy Red Hat.
Re:No thanx. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:45 · Score: 0

Not to troll, but it wasn't a problem in 4.0.
Back then the system was way faster in every sense, even a 486 ran linux like a champ. These days got glibc bloat, got KDE/Gnome bloat and everything takes longer now on these much faster machines than rh 4.0 did on the slower machines. These days you don't get time to digest everything on these multi-cd distributions before a new one is out.
Re:No thanx. by tjrw · 2002-12-23 11:15 · Score: 1

Ummm...
The current Advanced Server (2.1AS) doesn't meet your criteria, at least far as "slower" or "more conservative" is concerned. Although the kernel is still nominally based on 2.4.9, it has tons of changes, many backported from 2.5, others from elsewhere.
While Red Hat certainly do not shirk on testing, the amount of "new" code in the Advanced Server kernel (particularly that included at the behest of Oracle e.g. Asynchronous I/O), is hardly helpful in achieving a solid, bug-free kernel. I have personally logged several bugs against the AS kernel, a number of which are fixed in the 2.4.18 kernel that Red Hat ship with 8.0, and as an update to 7.x, but not is AS.

Executive summary, in a number of respects the 7.x/8.0 kernel is both newer and yet more conservative and hence stable than that shipped with Advanced Server.

Tim
Re:No thanx. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 17:19 · Score: 0

Here's a tip: click Custom Install instead of just clicking "Next".

You can actually deselect things you don't need. Truly an amazing feature.

Re:Another Redhat, more Microsoftalike? by blakestah · 2002-12-23 08:17 · Score: 3, Informative

Can you say me where i can get WMP for RedHat please ?

Here

Any other questions ?

Updated Mirror List by Laven · 2002-12-23 08:18 · Score: 4, Interesting

This is a more complete mirror list. Mirrors will hide and unhide as they become full. Please e-mail me if you find additions or corrections for this list.

http://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/phoebe_mirrors.html

Good stuff by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:18 · Score: 1, Insightful

I am running Mozilla 1.2.1 with Xft antialiased fonts on my gentoo box and it is pretty sweet. The fonts in mozilla now look as good as the ones on my new apple TiBook. Good work ou guys.

Re:Good stuff by mark_lybarger · 2002-12-23 08:41 · Score: 1

wonderfull. one day everyone will be able to "emerge mozilla" and have nice looking fonts in the latest moz version, but not today. most gentoo users have go spend a few hours on the forums/usenet/irc/maillists to figure out how to get the aa fonts to work properly.
Re:Good stuff by Gomer+Pyle · 2002-12-23 08:52 · Score: 2, Interesting

Actually, the fonts (with Xft2) on the 1.2.1 version of Mozilla look great. Install freetype, Xfree, Xft2, free-fonts, share-fonts, (and Gnome 2.0 if you use it) from unstable. I just did a clean install of Gentoo over the weekend and I can't believe how good my fonts look now. I didn't even have to touch any config files.
Re:Good stuff by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:24 · Score: 0

...but they don't look as good as XP's font smoothing. Boo-yeah!
Re:Good stuff by chez69 · 2002-12-23 09:38 · Score: 1

I disagree. Text for me looks just as good on my gnome desktop as they do in windows.

--
PHP is the solution of choice for relaying mysql errors to web users.
Re:Good stuff by shnarez · 2002-12-23 16:50 · Score: 1

Say one doesn't use Gentoo, but still wants to get the wonderfulness of a beautiful Mozilla and them good fonts. Where can one get the 'free-fonts' and 'share-fonts' packages? They're Gentoo-specific, but I want to get them without having to install Gentoo.
Re:Good stuff by Erik+Hollensbe · 2002-12-24 01:37 · Score: 2

Gentoo's entire repository is located on ibiblio, so it shouldn't be too hard finding them.

If RedHat versioned honestly... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:19 · Score: 0

RH6.2 - stable
RH7.3 - beta
RH8.0 - alpha

I just got done evaluating 7.3 for use
on our production boxes, and the decision is
to stick with 6.2. Anyone else have issues
with RH releases above (or before) 6.2?

Re:If RedHat versioned honestly... by ramirez · 2002-12-23 08:41 · Score: 3, Informative

>RH6.2 - stable
>RH7.3 - beta
>RH8.0 - alpha
>
>I just got done evaluating 7.3 for use
>on our production boxes, and the decision is
>to stick with 6.2. Anyone else have issues
>with RH releases above (or before) 6.2?

Not really. I've had no trouble running 7.3 for both workstations and servers. What issues did 7.3 have that you found unacceptable?

I'm currently testing 8.0, and so far so good. At least after the latest patches and compiling my own kernel.

One thing I did notice about 8.0 is that it would be nice if you could create LVM physical volumes on top of a RAID partition in their installer, but that is easy enough to do after the fact.
Re:If RedHat versioned honestly... by fymidos · 2002-12-23 08:44 · Score: 1

I imagine you are talking for a server machine not a desktop cause i can't see any reason to stick with 6.2 for the desktop.
I did have some problems up to RH7.2 but 7.3 works fine for me now. What problems did you have with it? RedHat 6.2 was a fine release, we still use it here on a couple of old servers, but i still want to go for 7.3 as it is a pain to manually upgrade packages. Generally i see your point though...

--
Washington bullets will simply be known as the "Bulle
Re:If RedHat versioned honestly... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:55 · Score: 0

One thing I did notice about 8.0 is that it would be nice if you could create LVM physical volumes on top of a RAID partition in their installer, but that is easy enough to do after the fact

Eh? I did this yesterday... just create the RAID partitions and set the type of /dev/md0 to LVM. Then click on the "LVM" tab to add logical volumes.
Re:If RedHat versioned honestly... by HTMLSpinnr · 2002-12-23 11:16 · Score: 1

I just got done evaluating 7.3 for use
on our production boxes, and the decision is
to stick with 6.2. Anyone else have issues
with RH releases above (or before) 6.2?</I>

Too bad you'll lose support after 3/31/2003 for 6.2 and 7.0. Hope you don't mind rolling your own patches.

Red Hat will cease to support the rest (7.1-8.0) after 12/31/2003 most likely in an effort to sway enterprise users to Advanced Server. Baah.

--
$ man woman *
-bash: /usr/bin/man: Argument list too long

MIRRORS - please don't /. the main server! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:20 · Score: 0, Redundant

Europe Austria ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/opsys/linux /redhat.com/dist/linux/beta/phoebe/ http://gd.tuw ien.ac.at/opsys/linux/redhat.com/dist/linux/beta/p hoebe/ rsync://gd.tuwien.ac.at/redhat/dist/linux/ beta/phoebe/ Belgium ftp://ftp.belnet.be/package s/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ Britain ftp://ftp.g- int.net/Mirrors/ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/be ta/phoebe/ http://ftp.g-int.net/Mirrors/ftp.redha t.com/pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ Czech Republic ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/pub/redhat/lin ux/beta/phoebe/ rsync://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/redha t/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.fi.muni.cz/ pub/linux/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ http://ftp.fi .muni.cz/pub/linux/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ rsyn c://ftp.fi.muni.cz/pub/linux/redhat/linux/beta/pho ebe/ Finland ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/linux/mirror s/redhat/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.ipv6 .funet.fi/pub/linux/mirrors/redhat/redhat/linux/be ta/phoebe/ France ftp://fr2.rpmfind.net/linux/re dhat/beta/phoebe/ http://fr2.rpmfind.net/linux/re dhat/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.crihan.fr/mirrors/ftp .redhat.com/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ http://ftp. crihan.fr/mirrors/ftp.redhat.com/redhat/linux/beta /phoebe/ ftp://ftp.free.fr/pub/Distributions_Linu x/RedHat/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ Germany ftp:/ /ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/redhat/linux/beta/p hoebe/ ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/redhat- ftp/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ http://ftp.tu-chemn itz.de/pub/linux/redhat-ftp/redhat/linux/beta/phoe be/ ftp://ftp.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/pub/lin ux/Mirror/ftp.redhat.com/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp:/ /ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/redhat-ftp/re dhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.gmd.de/mirrors/ redhat.com/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.un i-koeln.de/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.jo in.uni-muenster.de/pub/linux/distributions/redhat/ linux/beta/phoebe/ Italy ftp://ftp.edisontel.com /pub/RedHat_Mirror/linux/beta/phoebe/ Ireland ft p://ftp.esat.net/mirrors/ftp.redhat.com/redhat/lin ux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/ftp.r edhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ http://ft p.heanet.ie/mirrors/ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linu x/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.ipv6.heanet.ie/mirrors/f tp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ http: //ftp.ipv6.heanet.ie/mirrors/ftp.redhat.com/pub/re dhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ Netherlands ftp://alviss .et.tudelft.nl/pub/redhat/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp. quicknet.nl/pub/Linux/ftp.redhat.com/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/RedHat/ftp/ redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.surfnet.nl/pu b/os/Linux/distr/RedHat/ftp/redhat/linux/beta/phoe be/ ftp://ftp.eu.uu.net/pub/linux/redhat/linux/be ta/phoebe/ Norway ftp://ftp.uninett.no/pub/linux /RedHat/redhat/beta/phoebe/ Poland ftp://sunsite .icm.edu.pl/pub/Linux/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ r sync://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/ftp/pub/Linux/redhat/lin ux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.pbone.net/pub/redhat/li nux/beta/phoebe/ Spain ftp://ftp.rediris.es/pub/ Linux/distributions/redhat/redhat/ http://ftp.red iris.es/pub/Linux/distributions/redhat/redhat/linu x/beta/phoebe/ Romania ftp://ftp.iasi.roedu.net/ pub/mirrors/ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/beta/p hoebe/ Atlantic Iceland ftp://ftp.linux.is/pub/ redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ Puerto Rico ftp://mirrors.hpcf.upr.edu/pub/Mirrors/redha t/ftp.redhat.com/linux/beta/phoebe/ Asia Japan ftp://ftp.kddlabs.co.jp/Linux/packages/RedHat/redh at/linux/beta/phoebe/ Korea ftp://ftp.kreonet.re .kr/pub/Linux/RedHat/beta/phoebe/ Russia ftp://f tp.chg.ru/pub/Linux/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ htt p://ftp.chg.ru/pub/Linux/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ Canada ftp://ftp.nrc.ca/pub/systems/linux/redha t/ftp.redhat.com/linux/beta/phoebe/ USA East ftp://ftp.rutgers.edu/pub/redhat/linux/beta/ phoebe/ ftp://mirror.eas.muohio.edu/mirrors/redha t/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://ftp.gtlib.cc.gatech.ed u/pub/redhat/linux/beta/ http://www.gtlib.cc.gate ch.edu/pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://redhat .dulug.duke.edu/pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp ://mirror.hiwaay.net/redhat/redhat/linux/beta/phoe be/ http://mirror.hiwaay.net/redhat/redhat/linux/ beta/phoebe/ ftp://mirror.cs.princeton.edu/pub/mi rrors/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://rpmfind.net /linux/redhat/beta/phoebe/ ftp://chuck.ucs.indian a.edu/pub/linux/redhat/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://mirror.pa.msu.edu/linux/redhat/linux/beta/ph oebe/ ftp://ftp.cse.buffalo.edu/pub/Linux/redhat/ redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://kickstart.linux.n csu.edu/pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ USA Central ftp://linux.nssl.noaa.gov/linux/redhat/li nux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.ed u/pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ http://csociety-f tp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ r sync://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/redhat/linu x/beta/phoebe/ ftp://mirror.cs.wisc.edu/pub/mirro rs/linux/redhat/beta/phoebe/ ftp://mirror.mcs.anl .gov/pub/redhat/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ http:// mirror.mcs.anl.gov/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ http ://redhat.netnitco.net/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ USA West ftp://limestone.uoregon.edu/redhat/beta/phoe be/ Pacific Australia ftp://planetmirror.com/pu b/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ ftp://mirror.pacific. net.au/linux/redhat/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/ htt p://redhat.pacific.net.au/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe / Hawaii ftp://videl.ics.hawaii.edu/mirrors/redh at/linux/beta/phoebe/

I was hoping they would wait. by FreeLinux · 2002-12-23 08:22 · Score: 4, Interesting

KDE 3.1 has been delayed until early/mid January for a security audit. KDE 3.1 is VERY nice and is another big step forward for KDE. I had hoped that Red Hat would delay their 8.1? release until KDE 3.1 could be included. Unfortunately it looks like we will still have the "crippled" KDE 3.0.5 in Red Hat 8.1.

I definitely understand that Red Hat has an affinity for Gnome, and that's fine for them, but for full compatibility you really need to install both Gnome and KDE so why not have the best KDE?

With Mandrake's newly returned cash crunch, Suse is looking like a strong contender on the distro front. However, don't forget Knoppix, the newest "distro".

Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Phillip+Birmingham · 2002-12-23 08:26 · Score: 4, Insightful

KDE 3.1 has been delayed until early/mid January for a security audit. ... KDE 3.1 has been delayed until early/mid January for a security audit.

I think you just answered your question before you asked it. RedHat has no assurance that the release of KDE 3.1 won't be delayed further. At some point, you just have to go with what you have.

--
Make me aerodynamic in the evening air
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by wormbin · 2002-12-23 08:41 · Score: 2

I for one am glad that Red Hat doesn't wait for certain packages to be ready before shipping a distro. Predicting when a particular software package will be stable is very difficult and predicting when an open source package will be stable is practically impossible.
As it is, Red Hat ships a distro every six months like clockwork and whatever packages are ready ship with it. If your favorite package couldn't get a stable release out then they have another chance in six months.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Majix · 2002-12-23 08:42 · Score: 2

But it does include KDE 3.1, and GNOME 2.2 too (plus tons of new GNOME2 applications) which is also still in beta. And the XFree version is also a new beta with cool features (rotate and resize, yay). With all these new additions I'd say the final is still 2-4 months away.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Moritz+Moeller+-+Her · 2002-12-23 08:47 · Score: 2

I think Redhat is still dumb as shit regarding KDE. Both X and GNOME-2.2 have not yet been released as stable versions, so they could very well have added KDE-3.1rc6. It is so stable that I regret compiling with debug enabled to get backtraces. So far in one month of heavy use I have had not a single KDE program segfault on me!

But in the end, Redhat will have to include KDE-3.1 or they will lose market share to SuSE. Too bad, they have already lost all their KDE competence with their crippled version in Redhat-8.0. Bero quit Redhat over this. See http://slashdot.org/articles/02/09/25/2042208.shtm l?tid=110

--
Moritz
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by ajs · 2002-12-23 08:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

1. KDE was never crippled. A release of 3.1 would have the same bluecurve theme that 3.0.5 did, so anyone who thinks bluecurve is the spawn of Satan, would likely think the same of this beta with or without a pre-release of KDE.

2. Red Hat does not hold up a release unless they absolutely have to, otherwise they would never release. Making the call to go ahead without some key new development is always agonizing, but I don't think we can reasonably armchair quarterback those calls. I'd rather than both RH and KDE wait and make sure everything is ready for the public than get it all early in RH8.1 and find it's broken.

3. Just because they're releasing a beta now doesn't mean that it's all final. If KDE 3.1 releases in time and has no significant changes from 3.0.5 that prevent fast Q/A, perhaps RH will include it.

4. I don't think it's entirely fair to ascribe Red Hat's release timetable (which has been at a pretty steady pace of 6 months per release since the early days) to liking Gnome better than KDE.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Woodrow+Stool · 2002-12-23 08:50 · Score: 1

Yes, well with the awful RH 8.0 "Blue Wave" GUI, KDE and Gnome look just and act just about exactly like each other (which I guess was the plan), who cares when KDE 3.1 is available? RH has pretty much de-nutted their desktop anyway.

This, more than anything, has me giving RH the heave-ho and moving on to either Gentoo or just flat out rolling my own distro for my own development and use.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by gimpimp · 2002-12-23 08:53 · Score: 1

If the KDE supplied with Redhat 8.0 is crippled, would you like to tell me which *features* were removed?

A menu entry which pop's up a message box 'About KDE' is not a feature, btw.

I'll look forward to your replies, kde people.

--
i wish i was but oh well
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by lunenburg · 2002-12-23 09:05 · Score: 4, Informative

I think Redhat is still dumb as shit regarding KDE. Both X and GNOME-2.2 have not yet been released as stable versions, so they could very well have added KDE-3.1rc6.

Did you even bother doing basic research before flapping your yap?

ncftp ...en/os/i386/RedHat/RPMS > pwd
ftp://beta:PASSWORD@ftp.beta.redhat.com/pub/redhat /linux/beta/phoebe/en/os/i386/RedHat/RPMS/
ncftp ...en/os/i386/RedHat/RPMS > ls kde* ...
kdebase-3.1-0.9.i386.rpm
kdebase-devel-3.1-0 .9.i386.rpm
kdebindings-3.1-0.3.i386.rpm
kdebind ings-devel-3.1-0.3.i386.rpm
kdeedu-3.1-0.3.i386.r pm
kdeedu-devel-3.1-0.3.i386.rpm ...

Looks like just another "Red Hat is eeevil" fool.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Jahf · 2002-12-23 09:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

Go for it.

This is my opinion regarding everyone who posts responses like this when they don't like something that one of the other distributions has done ...

If you have both the time and experience to run Gentoo or create your own distribution, then you're not the type of person who Red Hat is targetting.

If you have the knowledge to install your own updated KDE 3.1 then you're also probably not the customer that Red Hat is looking for.

I find it refreshing that Red Hat has not only recognized that most people with that skillset aren't their core customers (honestly, what percentage of the Linux "elite" pay for Red Hat?) AND that they have the balls to do what is right for their customers. It means they have a model that is starting to work, which is good for all of the Linux community.

--
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by OneEyedApe · 2002-12-23 09:10 · Score: 1

Redhat appears to be intended for those people who want a distro that is easy to install, easy to update, and easy to use. Hiding the differences between KDE and Gnome makes it easy for those people to sit down and use the computer.
But I must agree with you. For my own use Gentoo is preferable. If I want a GUI, I just use Enlightenment, and install the QT and GTK libs.

--
Life sucks, but death doesn't put out at all....
--Thomas J. Kopp
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by abigor · 2002-12-23 09:20 · Score: 1

1. Screensavers broken
2. Home pages in Konq no longer work; it comes up as a file manager automatically
3. The panel is gibbled; you can't remove blank areas
4. ...etc.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by ambrosius27 · 2002-12-23 09:36 · Score: 1

Yes, this is *definitely* a conspiracy against KDE by Red Hat!!! Damn them!!!

P.S. Gnome 2.2, which will be VERY nice and will be another big step forward for Gnome, is due to be released on January 29th. Please see the Gnome release schedule. *sarcasm* You would think that Red Hat, as a big supporter of Gnome, would delay the release of 8.1 to get in the newest, greatest Gnome, wouldn't you? *end sarcasm*

FreeLinux said:

KDE 3.1 has been delayed until early/mid January for a security audit. KDE 3.1 is VERY nice and is another big step forward for KDE. I had hoped that Red Hat would delay their 8.1? release until KDE 3.1 could be included. Unfortunately it looks like we will still have the "crippled" KDE 3.0.5 in Red Hat 8.1.

I definitely understand that Red Hat has an affinity for Gnome, and that's fine for them, but for full compatibility you really need to install both Gnome and KDE so why not have the best KDE?

With Mandrake's newly returned cash crunch, Suse is looking like a strong contender on the distro front. However, don't forget Knoppix, the newest "distro".

--

~~~~~~~~~
dissertus scribendo latine videri volo.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by gimpimp · 2002-12-23 09:39 · Score: 1

1. Screensavers broken
-screensavers work fine on the installs i've done. drivers? rh problem? i doubt it.

2. Home pages in Konq no longer work; it comes up as a file manager automatically
homepages in ~/public_html? if so, not a rh/kde issue.

3. The panel is gibbled; you can't remove blank areas
probably an applet issue. try with a new panel.

btw, you didn't give me any *features* that were *removed* from kde(which would prove kde was crippled). some bugs are always going to creep in, there isn't a distro in the land which is bug free.

--
i wish i was but oh well
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by diamondc · 2002-12-23 09:47 · Score: 1

Lose market share? I'm not sure most people care if they have KDE 3.0 or 3.1, its not that drastic difference like it is from 2.0 to 3.0. I dont know why RedHat just doesn't drop KDE already so they don't have to put up with KDE fanatics and put ALL their resources into making GNOME better.

--
"I keep looking in the want-ads under 'revolutionary' but there don't seem to be any listings.. "
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:52 · Score: 0

How about the ability to shut down the computer from the UI. That was purposefully removed. Now you have to go to the command line or to the Gnome login screen.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by CondeZer0 · 2002-12-23 09:55 · Score: 4, Informative

Why don't you check your facts before posting?

1) As others have pointed out, this is a *Beta*, RedHat 8.0.92 to be exact, so many things can change between now and when 8.1 is released
2) This beta actually *includes* KDE 3.1(RC5 or CVS I guess) see http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=redh at or check the RPMs in the FTP, or install the damn thing!
3) This is *exactly* the same as with Gnome, the beta includes the latest Gnome 2.1(from CVS I think), that by the time 8.1 final is released will become Gnome 2.2(and the same is also true for XFree 4.3)
4) KDE on RedHat is/was not "crippled", I will not bother arguing about this, but if you think the version in 8.0 was "crippled", then doesn't mater what version they ship in the next release you will think the same.
5) You can be sure that RedHat 8.1 final release will include KDE 3.1, you may think that it's still "crippled" though...
(BTW, Gnome 2.2 and KDE 3.1 are both looking very good, I'm sure RH8.1 will be a great release, even better than 8.0, and 8.0 was already very nice)

Hope this sets some facts straight, BTW, I don't even run Linux or KDE/Gnome on my boxes(I administer a few RedHat desktops running both KDE and Gnome at work though), I love my FreeBSD box with Ion, just hate to see people spreading misinformation.

Best wishes and do some research before you post next time!

\\Uriel

--
"When in doubt, use brute force." Ken Thompson
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Karn · 2002-12-23 09:57 · Score: 1

"Unfortunately it looks like we will still have the "crippled" KDE 3.0.5 in Red Hat 8.1."

Hey, guess what: Gnome and KDE are themeable! Yes, that's right, you can actually change the default look. Amazing, yes! Even more amazing, if you feel that Kmail is superior to Evolution, you can even change your menus to open Kmail!

Actually, it's not amazing. You have always been able to do these things for Gnome and KDE under Redhat 8. What IS amazing, however, is the number of people who complain about the default theme for Redhat 8, something which 99% of all complainers will change on their distro of choice anyway.

Personally, I use Keramik on my Redhat 8 desktop at home for GTK 1,2, and QT (Well, Geramik for GTK). It's basically the same "evil" idea: Mozilla, Gimp, and Konqueror all look very much the same. Mozilla's classic theme now picks up native GTK themes, which is why my Mozilla has that Keramik look.

Crippled? Well, if you couldn't change the theme anymore, or modify your menus, or if they didn't ship Kmail, you may have a point there.

--

Why do I keep typing pythong?
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 10:49 · Score: 0

Oh, the horror! It's like it's not even KDE anymore!
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 11:14 · Score: 0

He asked for a feature that was removed. I gave it. I win.

Despite the fact that "go to the command line and type 'poweroff'" is easy as hell to do, it still gives the impression that you need command-line tools to do even the most basic things in Linux. And thanks to RedHat, it's true!
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Phillip+Birmingham · 2002-12-23 11:48 · Score: 2

Cool!

--
Make me aerodynamic in the evening air
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by gol64738 · 2002-12-23 11:59 · Score: 2

READ MY PARENT

where is my mod points when i need them the most? the parent of this post is the most imformative post of this discussion.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by abigor · 2002-12-23 13:01 · Score: 2

Huh? I've done 3 RH8 installs here at work as developer boxes, and screensavers do not work. Try setting a homepage in Konq (slashdot.org, for instance) - nope. And lots of people have complained about the panel; remove the clipboard and whatever else you have, then try getting rid of the blank area. You can't.

These aren't just bugs. They are not present in the default KDE install (from source or whatever). Some things were changed by Red Hat - basic things.

See dot.kde.org for many more problems.

As for removed features, I'd call using Konq as a full browser, with a homepage, a feature. Screensavers, too. The panel thing is annoying, but hardly deadly, I admit.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 17:22 · Score: 0

Oh my GOD! They may as well have removed Konqueror if they're going to make me have to pop up a shell to shut down my computer, something I do constantly!

Dude, gimme a fucking break.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 17:28 · Score: 0

My screensavers work fine, so the problem you speak of is not universal.

The extra space in the task bar is a bug, and I'm sure Redhat will fix it. I removed the systray thing, so I don't know what you're referring to.

The only valid point you have is the home directory stuff, but it's a only a bug, sorry. I know how much you want it to be a conspiracy against KDE, but it's just not that..

You people are the biggest bunch of whiney nitpickers I have ever seen.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Karn · 2002-12-23 17:35 · Score: 1

What you speak of is a small deal. Very small when you consider how nice of a desktop Redhat 8 is with it's nice Anti-aliased fonts, OpenOffice, and sane uncluttered menus.

--

Why do I keep typing pythong?
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by nitehorse · 2002-12-23 23:28 · Score: 2

Another poster noted that Redhat is, in fact, including KDE 3.1 (probably RC6, although I wouldn't put it past them to be using CVS from 3_1_BRANCH) with Phoebe.

Also, note that RedHat is the _only_ distro that ships GNOME as the default desktop (aside from Debian, but Debian doesn't ship any default desktop. Every Debian-based desktop distro uses KDE, or a derivative/hack of KDE.)

Just some thoughts.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by XO · 2002-12-24 02:32 · Score: 1

screensavers work fine on my RH8 boxen. I abhor konqueror - it's already a crippled version of Opera - so I can't speak for that one. I don't ahve one available to muck with the panel here. But, on point one, you're wrong. On point 2, who cares, because konqueror sucks?

--
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by tom.allender · 2002-12-24 07:07 · Score: 1

RedHat have released updated KDE packages that include a fix for the screensaver bug.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Bob+Uhl · 2002-12-24 09:25 · Score: 2

Also, note that RedHat is the _only_ distro that ships GNOME as the default desktop...
And a good thing, too. KDE is just not the way to go, IMHO. It has some good ideas, but it's all in C++ (bastard C++, IIRC). While they've achieved some neat features, it doesn't really fit in with everything else I use (well, just about everything else). C is the language of Unix; it is the language of the Internet; it should be the language of the Unix desktop. It is the language of the Unix desktop: GNOME.
Plus, GNOME just feels better to me:-)
But KDE really is pretty cool. I wish its developers would have spent their energy within a more pleasant environment. They could have really achieved a lot.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by antirename · 2002-12-24 10:45 · Score: 2

I like KDE. KDE does what I need it to do, and I'm used to it. I'll keep using it. That said, I've left Redhat 8.0's GUI alone on the last few installs I've done for newbies. I agree that having a single "desktop" would be good to make it easier for people switching from windows, but I do like having options. BTW, I'm sticking with 7.3 for the time being.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by antirename · 2002-12-24 10:48 · Score: 2

Programming language aside, I really prefer KDE. However, what difference does it really make? Why should one desktop win, and the other lose? Just use what works best for you and/or works best with what you already have. I'm sure that's what redhat was thinking.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by antirename · 2002-12-24 10:51 · Score: 2

I paid for 5.something (can't find the disk), paid for 6.2, and downloaded 7.2 and 7.3 because I couldn't find them locally. I have paid, I don't mind paying, and I'm sure I'll pay again. I'm used to redhat, and that's a lot of the reason I stick with it. I kind of doubt that I'm the only customer that likes what they have, sticks with what they're used to for production systems, and is willing to pay for the CDs and support.
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-24 11:21 · Score: 0

Man, only Red Hat matters. SuSE has basically 0 market share anywhere but Germany (and even there it is small). Mandrake, which *doesn't* DEFAULT to KDE (it is officially desktop neutral and its config tools are written in GTK), is going bust.

You make it sound like no-one uses GNOME... and yet by far the largest number of Linux installations in the world use GNOME, and GNOME will be the official desktop of both Sun and HP. Fucking hell, KDE is a minority desktop -- most commericaly installs these days use Ximian GNOME and Evolution because KDE has nothing to match it.

The only people using KDE are a few immensely noisy zealots who just do not matter -- and, in fact, put people off by making ridiculous unsubstantiated claims for their software (cough, konqueror, cough).
Re:I was hoping they would wait. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-24 16:05 · Score: 0

The "nice"-ness of the BlueCurve theme is a matter of opinion... It took me a few hours of hacking KDE on RH 8 to get it back to like it is supposed to be...

Mission critical? by Gaima · 2002-12-23 08:24 · Score: 1, Troll

PHOEBE is, of course, not intended for use on mission critical or other production systems.

s/PHOEBE/RedHat/

No shit, the pain in the ass kernel/fs issues we've been having with 7.1/2/3, RedHat plain isn't good enough for production use, let alone mission critical.
Sometimes I really wish they would just leave the frickin thing alone!

Re:Mission critical? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:31 · Score: 0

what pain in the ass kernel fs issues ?
Re:Mission critical? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:42 · Score: 0

> they would just leave the frickin thing alone

By "they" I assume you mean Alan Cox considering they pretty much use his tree.

I ran production systems on all of them and never had any problems. Of course, your needs may be more extensive than mine...I just had 5 systems dumping raw video. *shrug*
Re:Mission critical? by Mandi+Walls · 2002-12-23 09:27 · Score: 2

Maybe you need to move off of ODS2 or something.
The only kernel issue i've had on my machines is that the /boot partition (on vendor-installed boxen) is too freaking small to pull their kernels down with up2date and keep the old ones around with the new ones, especially with big Dell boxes (SMP, bigmem...sweet machines, really)
but that is being fixed, according to bugzilla.
but, since it's Red Hat, carry on with your bitching. red hat's customers, partners, and resellers are obviously smoking crack, and you are obviously grand 1337 master of the server room.
:P
Wasn't that better than me adding to your "Troll" total?
--mandi

..Just when I had by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:24 · Score: 0

the time to install SUSE 8.1 over the internet this gets announced!! FUCKIN' REDHAT!! My bandwidth has dropped to zero and I will be unable to install SUSE!!!

I thought it would be quiet since the holidays and all, but FUCK NO! Fucking REDHAT decided to release a beta.

The next time I have some time to mess with Linux will be in April, 2003. THANKS A LOT DUDES!!

Re:IN US of America by HotNeedleOfInquiry · 2002-12-23 08:25 · Score: 2

Admiral Poindexter beta test you!

--
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...

BILL FRIST!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:25 · Score: 0

bill frist in your face!

Re:Another Redhat, more Microsoftalike? by KingDaveRa · 2002-12-23 08:26 · Score: 0

Don't get me wrong, I like Redhat - its my current distro of choice, but its the way redhat are taking elements - say for example Gnome and KDE - and moulding them both into the same thing, when they aren't. Yeah, they're both Window managers, but they do it differently.

Hey Ximian! by destiney · 2002-12-23 08:26 · Score: 1

I wish Ximian would try and keep up. They still haven't released for RedHat 8.0 yet.

Re:Hey Ximian! by damiam · 2002-12-23 08:31 · Score: 1

Hmmm... They say Ximian Gnome 2.0 will be released "later this year." They've only got a week ... think they'll make it?

--
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.

next beta name by alexc · 2002-12-23 08:26 · Score: 1

so what's new name for there beta os....
"mondler" ?

Re:next beta name by Cnik70 · 2002-12-23 08:29 · Score: 0

that is SO not funny :)

--
-Cnik

New mozilla & Font server... by WPIDalamar · 2002-12-23 08:30 · Score: 2

don't know about you... but these are things I patched into my system a long time ago to the last redhat release.

Windows XP was great, except.... by Drakantus · 2002-12-23 08:34 · Score: 5, Funny

-Lack of EXT3 filesystem support by default: Near-neccessary for Linux dual-booters

-That silly "start" menu: you never quite know where software is going to turn up, some make shortcuts on the desktop and in the menu, other programs only in the menu, some don't create any shortcuts

-No MP3 encoding support in WMP

-DMA is off by default on CD-ROM drives. This is easily fixed through device manager, but for the average user, this is a hurdle to DVD playing and CD burning.

-No nVidia, ATI, S3, Creative Labs, Turtle Beach, AMD, Intel, 3Com, VIA, or Matrox drivers, except very limited (no openGL, poor directX) drivers for some older devices

-These were all easily fixed if you knew what you were doing, but kept Windows XP out of the realm of being usable for average people

--
I love going down to the elementary school, watching all the kids jump and shout, but they dont know I'm using blanks.

Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by Publicus · 2002-12-23 08:54 · Score: 1

Bravo!

--
My Karma was at 49, then they switched to words. All that work for nothing!
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by LordHunter317 · 2002-12-23 08:57 · Score: 1, Flamebait

-Lack of EXT3 filesystem support by default: Near-neccessary for Linux dual-booters
1 of 2 valid points.

-That silly "start" menu: you never quite know where software is going to turn up, some make shortcuts on the desktop and in the menu, other programs only in the menu, some don't create any shortcuts
MS doesn't pick where most stuff goes. RH does. RH's fault if the menu's don't make sense.

-No MP3 encoding support in WMP
2 of 2 valid points.

-DMA is off by default on CD-ROM drives. This is easily fixed through device manager, but for the average user, this is a hurdle to DVD playing and CD burning.
Hrm, both my DVD-ROM and my CD-R/CD-RW drive seem to be the correctly supported DMA mode by default in WinXP.

-No nVidia, ATI, S3, Creative Labs, Turtle Beach, AMD, Intel, 3Com, VIA, or Matrox drivers, except very limited (no openGL, poor directX) drivers for some older devices.
Uhh the default nVidia support for cards that existed at the time of release worked, but wern't super fast. ATI, S3, TB, Intel, 3COM and matrox I can't comment on. My VIA and AMD stuff workes just great ('cept for stuff released after XP). CL drivers for my live! were a bit lacking.

-These were all easily fixed if you knew what you were doing, but kept Windows XP out of the realm of being usable for average people.
Or not. TROLL!
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by conan_albrecht · 2002-12-23 09:12 · Score: 2

Don't forget the lack of zipping support. Yes, unzip is pretty seamless, but where is zipping?

Disclaimer: I don't use Windows at all and haven't seen zip supported in any version yet. Perhaps you can zip stuff in WinXP, but that would be news to me.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by Brightest+Light · 2002-12-23 09:14 · Score: 2

Well, though the poster should have said Windows XP BETA (though you shouldn't have had any problems drawing that from the context of the post), its far from a troll.
Try to have a sense of humor the next time you reply to posts like that.
Oh, and to stay on-topic: I agree, NTFS support by default would be a great thing for Red Hat to implement.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by koko775 · 2002-12-23 09:19 · Score: 1

select file(s), right click, and then in the menu send to compressed folder. Also works under winME.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:20 · Score: 0

DMA is on by default in XP, dumbass.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:23 · Score: 0

Well then this is news to you.. it is built in.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by Cyno · 2002-12-23 09:49 · Score: 2

What about multi-boot support? No Microsoft OS has ever supported booting into Solaris X86, BeOS, Linux, BSD, etc. What do you expect a home user to do when they install XP next to their Linux installation and can't figure out how to boot back into Linux? Microsoft is a hostile proprietary software developer, not exactly the best choice for the average consumers, completely ignoring the fact that they are a monopoly. Mac OSX is probably the easiest to use since all home users would never have to worry about drivers or hardware compatibility. But to say Windows is even close to perfect is a flat out lie. A lot of the compatibility problems surrounding PCs today were caused by Microsoft and their anticompetitive nature. I mean how can you expect ANY OS to support NTFS when its still an undocumented proprietary format? You probably expect open source developers to sign Microsoft NDAs or something similar to give you the compatibility you want, and you still expect it to be free. You ask for too much.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by Drakantus · 2002-12-23 09:58 · Score: 1

My post was mostly a joke, but all of my points were true on some level.

(MS doesn't pick where most stuff goes. RH does. RH's fault if the menu's don't make sense.)

That would be news to me. How can redhat control where 3rd party programs install themselves?

(Hrm, both my DVD-ROM and my CD-R/CD-RW drive seem to be the correctly supported DMA mode by default in WinXP.)

Yes, it varies depending on your chipset and optical drives. Trust me, many VIA and AMD chipsets combined with certain optical drives will result in them running in PIO mode by default on XP.

(Uhh the default nVidia support for cards that existed at the time of release worked, but wern't super fast. )

Yes, and the same is true in redhat. Nvidia cards work fine in redhat, they just don't have full acceleration unless you install nvidia's binary, which is the exact same situation as with windows XP.

(My VIA and AMD stuff workes just great)

For full VIA support in windows XP, you need the VIA drivers, but it'll work ok without them. With AMD chipsets, I'm not so sure how important the drivers are, but I know the latest drivers are newer than windows XP. I know that I had to install them on my dual athlon box to get everything stable in XP Pro.

--
I love going down to the elementary school, watching all the kids jump and shout, but they dont know I'm using blanks.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by LordHunter317 · 2002-12-23 10:20 · Score: 2

Actually NT has Multiboot support. Its just very limited multiboot support. Its there, but GRUB it ain't.

I didn't ask for anything, or nor need you preaching to me. I was just noting that the troll was feeding off the bat about things that were of no relevance or importance.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by Cyno · 2002-12-23 11:11 · Score: 2

Sure it has multiboot support, after it overwrites your boot record without prompting for or offerring an option to boot into any alternative OSs you may have installed.
I wouldn't be preaching if I didn't just read some moron say that RedHat is great except it doesn't have mp3 or NTFS support and then proceed to compare it to some Microsoft OS.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by LordHunter317 · 2002-12-23 12:29 · Score: 2

Multiboot is multiboot. You didn't say anything about capibilites or features or behavior.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by Issue9mm · 2002-12-23 12:41 · Score: 1

Going by that argument, you've invalidated your own point in that RedHat DOES offer multiboot support.

-9mm-
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by jensend · 2002-12-23 12:43 · Score: 2

In 8.0, most of what RedHat installs goes into the main menu hierarchy, while other things (other Redhat packages, almost all 3rd party packages) end up in the Extras menu.

This is (IIRC) because RedHat is attempting to move from the old, normal Gnome and KDE menu schemes to the freedesktop.org unified menu scheme. Unfortunately, very few applications have adapted to the freedesktop.org scheme, and so these install themselves in the old Gnome menu system, which RH displays in the Extras menu. This by itself would not be such a big problem, but 8.0 did not ship with a menu editor, so if you wanted to put things from the Extras menu into your main menu, you had to edit the freedesktop.org standard desktop files by hand (and learn the syntax, which is definitely not self-explanatory). The menu editor issue will be resolved in RH 8.1 (freedesktop.org menu editing was in the Gnome point release after 8.0, and I suspect the same is true of KDE though I don't know). The Extras menu problem will gradually disappear as more and more apps move to the new menu standard.

Nvidia cards do *not* work "just fine, except w/o acceleration" in a base RH. In my experience, the RH-shipped driver refuses to run a lot of configurations (card, resolution, color depth combinations). Furthermore, Nvidia's drivers are easily available through Windows Update (though Windows Update is often one revision behind because Microsoft won't distribute any drivers which aren't WHQL'd). Nvidia's linux drivers are not available through Up2date- in fact, while NV drivers install on XP with a couple of newbie-friendly clicks, the NV drivers on Linux require manual editing of the X configuration file and often a recompilation.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 14:33 · Score: 0

Nvidia cards do *not* work "just fine, except w/o acceleration" in a base RH. In my experience, the RH-shipped driver refuses to run a lot of configurations (card, resolution, color depth combinations). Furthermore, Nvidia's drivers are easily available through Windows Update (though Windows Update is often one revision behind because Microsoft won't distribute any drivers which aren't WHQL'd). Nvidia's linux drivers are not available through Up2date- in fact, while NV drivers install on XP with a couple of newbie-friendly clicks, the NV drivers on Linux require manual editing of the X configuration file and often a recompilation.

What are you smoking? RH8 installed X just fine for 1280x1024x32 using the unaccelerated drivers. Nvidia's rpms installed with a couple of newbie-friendly clicks. Next startup of X greeted me with an nvidia splash screen (that, I had to go disable because I find it annoying). I didn't have to edit or compile anything to get nvidia's drivers running.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by $carab · 2002-12-23 16:25 · Score: 2

but where is zipping?

Windows XP...
Right Click => Send to => Compressed (zipped) folder

It compresses to minimize space, not time, in case you were wondering.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 19:52 · Score: 0

Linux was so much cooler before default menuconfiguration was a feature.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by renoX · 2002-12-23 22:25 · Score: 2

> My post was mostly a joke, but all of my points were true on some level.

I'm not serious too, still I disagree with some of your points.

About the installation of programs: most of the programs you install in Windows ask you where you want to put the programs, the menus and if you want to put an icon on the screen, etc..

This is way better than the instalation of programs on Linux when programs don't ask where they are going to put their menus and where modifying the menus is more difficult (on Mandrake at least) than in Windows..

As for the DMA mode: Windows XP misdetected my settings for my HDD for a year, then I found the solution: put all your IDE controler in PIO mode, reboot, put the HDD in 'DMA if detected' reboot it solved the problem but I lost many hours looking for a solution, trying weird stuff by modifying the registry, etc.
I prefer the hdparm command! Still you're right it can be very annoying for beginners that DMA is not turned on for some of the devices.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by MindStalker · 2002-12-24 01:54 · Score: 1

It has support to boot into multiple MS operating systems. I don't believe (could be wrong, someone please correct if I am) it can be used to boot into any non MS OS.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by jensend · 2002-12-24 02:57 · Score: 1

OK, so a high resolution worked just fine for you. That doesn't mean it works for all configurations. But I suppose it's possible that that problem has more to do with RH not correctly detecting the properly than with their driver for the nvidia card.

And sure, the rpms may install without any worries- if your kernel version is on Nvidia's list. If you were using RH 8.0 within a few weeks of its release or had up2date'd your kernel soon after RH released their kernel advisory and new kernel, you had to use the .src.rpm, make sure you had the proper libs installed, do a 'rpmbuild --rebuild', and edit your X config file.
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by jaavaaguru · 2002-12-24 03:11 · Score: 2

Yeah, imagine installing a piece of software written for windows in a time before everyone had a start menu (i.e. Windows 3.11 software). Install in on WinXP. Hmmm... and people wonder why some icons don't end up in RedHat's menu ;-)

--
Follow me
Re:Windows XP was great, except.... by jaavaaguru · 2002-12-24 03:14 · Score: 2

So how do you uncompress a .gz or a .bz2 archive? Most OSs I've seen can do this, but not XP.

--
Follow me

P2P to the rescue? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

How bout someone with the full images put them up on a Distributed P2P network like Overnet or eDonkey2000 so we can take the load off of the mirrors and help proove that P2P is usefull for something other than piracy.

Put blame where it belongs... by Kjella · 2002-12-23 08:36 · Score: 4, Informative

MP3 support is due to Fraunhofer licencing.

Nvidia drivers is due to Nvidia licencing.

DMA support, extra menu and NTFS support I agree is things RedHat should fix. But they can't do much about the rest.

Kjella

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

Re:Put blame where it belongs... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:45 · Score: 0

Lack of mp3 support is actually due to Red Hat's lawyers being unable to differentiate their asses from their elbows.
Re:Put blame where it belongs... by GrenDel+Fuego · 2002-12-23 08:58 · Score: 2

Are you looking for NTFS read-only or read/write?

NTFS read/write is currently known to cause bad corruption. It's being worked on, but it's not stable yet.
Re:Put blame where it belongs... by jmu1 · 2002-12-23 09:03 · Score: 2

The DMA thing is due to the goofy shit that hardware manufactuers do. Namely VIA. Their chipsets are notorious for corrupting data when using DMA. Hence the default setting.
The NTFS support, as is mentioned in another reply is goofy, at best. RedHat likes to keep their reputation clean. That is why their lawyers are so strict about licenses. That is also why they make the decisions they do. As for the extras menu... I don't like it... but it does keep me from having gargantuan menus that I end up clicking on the wrong app. ;)
Cheers!
Re:Put blame where it belongs... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:40 · Score: 0

Other distros provide MP3 support and Nvidia drivers, Gentoo for example. What is it about the licensing that stops Redhat?
Re:Put blame where it belongs... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 11:28 · Score: 0

Lack of NTFS support:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=48815&cid=4948 050
Re:Put blame where it belongs... by Cyno · 2002-12-23 11:32 · Score: 2

Yeah, the menus suck, but let's face it, the menus have always sucked in Linux. At least its getting better.
Re:Put blame where it belongs... by King+of+the+World · 2002-12-23 13:56 · Score: 1

It's not nvidia licensing in that it's not possible to distribute it, it's licencing in that it's not an open source piece of code which is incompatible with the open distro Redhat are trying to make.

--
--Giving to trolls for the benefit of us all
Re:Put blame where it belongs... by pajama · 2002-12-23 16:38 · Score: 1

Check linux-ntfs.

Ricardo

Changes? by hdparm · 2002-12-23 08:36 · Score: 1

It will be interesting to see if changes to 8.0 are mostly cosmetic.

According to release notes, not much has happened but I hope it'll run even smooter.

Good to see serious Linux company able to keep the pace up.

(off-topic) Sig by pgpckt · 2002-12-23 08:37 · Score: 1

In Soviet Russia, all your base are belong to a Beowulf cluster. Profit!

Throw Steven King and Grits into that somehow, and I thibk you will have a winner.

You made me laugh. Thanks.

--
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.

Re:(off-topic) Sig by Znonymous+Coward · 2002-12-23 08:40 · Score: 2

Thanks, someone also mentioned Natalie Portman. I must of missed that one. Can you explain who Natalie Portman is?

--
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
Re:(off-topic) Sig by pgpckt · 2002-12-23 08:48 · Score: 1

Can you explain who Natalie Portman is?

Sure, she is the actress who plays Queen Padmé Amidala in the new Star Wars movies.

--
Lawrence Lessig is my personal hero.
Re:(off-topic) Sig by sflory · 2002-12-23 08:57 · Score: 1

This goes back a an infamous posting. Involving Portman naked and petrified.

--
IANALBIPOOGL (I am not a Lawyer, but I play one on GrokLaw.)
Re:(off-topic) Sig by OneEyedApe · 2002-12-23 08:59 · Score: 1

Miss Portman is an actress, perhaps best known to this crowd for her role as Queen Amidala in Star Wars I and II
I also found a site here that appears to have more information on her.

--
Life sucks, but death doesn't put out at all....
--Thomas J. Kopp

Re:IN EAST CANADA by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:38 · Score: 0

The beta in available in French and English. Damnit.

8.1 will have to wait... by ACK!! · 2002-12-23 08:38 · Score: 5, Interesting

I just got my RH8 laptop singing with the new kernel and they go out and release a beta!

Well, I think I will just wait. Sit back and watch the flack and see what people like/dislike and have trouble with before I go jumping into a new release. I got a lot of the stuff they are pushing already from Nyquists apt repository. At least the stuff I wanted like fontillus and gstreamer and such.

I think RH has come a long way so far and hope to see it progress even further.

My wish list is:

Larger set of server configuration tools like NIS server, client, LDAP server and client GUI apps. A network shares app that could handle samba and nfs would be really helpful (Ximian Setup Tools had one way back in the day).

Menu-editing for individual users.

Faster hardware check tool so bootup wouldn't hang there figuring out my configuration so long.

Graphical boot messages screen so my bootup can get slower :->.

System-wide font installer like KDE has. Fontillus installs fonts drag and drop for users.

Package Management tied to apt freshrpms repository. I like the GUI package management tool but end up using synaptic because it is not tied to apt.

I can think of other things. Can you?

What things would you like to see?

Constructive stuff not just RH sucks garbage.

--
ACK /ak/ interj. 2. [from the comic strip "Bloom County"] An exclamation of surprised disgust, esp. i

Re:8.1 will have to wait... by GrenDel+Fuego · 2002-12-23 08:54 · Score: 2

I'm hoping for Gnome2 speedups. Certain gnome applications seem to run dog slow when just scrolling or drawing.

If you have access to a machine with Redhat 8.0 and Redhat 7.3, try launching gnome-terminal and write something large to the screen. dmesg usually works well.
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:59 · Score: 0

I just downloaded CD1 of Red Hat 8 to try on my laptop last night. And now they go and release this update without mentioning anything previously on their website that they were close.

The thing that needs to change is X, KDE, or Gnome need to have windowing drivers in the Kernel. People who just need the basic barebones Linux can easily download an older version and be just fine. But those of us that want better performance would benefit from the extra GUI stuff in the Kernel I would think. Plus, they should come up with an updated replacement for X. Have everybody come together and enter in their video card settings that work and allow new people to Linux pick some good settings for the cards they have.

The next thing is that KDE, Gnome, WM, and the rest of them need to come together and start a huge project combining everything good and removing everything bad from their products. Then name it the Linux Desktop Interface. Then all of these programmers can make software for 1 Kernel and 1 UI. It would make it much easier for professional shops and the single guy to make software if they only had to worry about 1 set of standards.
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by fdisk3hs · 2002-12-23 09:27 · Score: 1

i wanted to smack you, but it's christmas...
the manufacturers won't let us have the good driver code, all we have is the community's reverse-engineered driver code...
there will never be one desktop interface, who cares and why would we. i use fvwm, if you tried to make me use kde you might get hurt.
you have some interesting ideas though, better start coding, and let me know when the cvs tree is up on your server...

lr
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by Tralfamadorian · 2002-12-23 09:39 · Score: 1

Hmmm, I'm running RH 8.0, and I have no problems with running dmesg in gnome-terminal.

[caleb@helga caleb]$ time dmesg
dmesg stuff

real 0m0.102s
user 0m0.002s
sys 0m0.002s

Maybe it's something to do with the drivers for your video hardware (I'm running a radeon 9700 w/ ATI's drivers)
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 10:36 · Score: 0

I'd like to see Codeweavers Crossover bundled with RH8.1, instead of just wine.
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 11:34 · Score: 0

The "hardware check tool", kudzu, can be very easily disabled. As root: /usr/sbin/ntsysv

Then turn it off. Voila, much faster bootups!
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by GrenDel+Fuego · 2002-12-23 13:09 · Score: 2

I've had the same problem on three machines, one running an ATI Rage Mobility, one with a Revolution IV card, and one with a Radeon All-In-Wonder. All with the same problem.

I'm not sure if time would catch the difference since it's a difference in the time taken to display rather than time taken to execute.

Do you see any sort of noticable speed differences?
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by shnarez · 2002-12-23 13:17 · Score: 1

Graphical boot messages screen so my bootup can get slower :->.
I believe you want the Linux Progress Patch. Pro: graphical bootup. Con: you need to apply the patch to your kernel and recompile.
But I am guessing you want it on by default from RedHat :)
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by GrenDel+Fuego · 2002-12-23 15:24 · Score: 2

I just installed the new 8.1 beta, and it's pretty impressive so far. The entire system seems a lot faster overall, even on my laptop, which is the lowest end machine I usually use.

The release is VERY buggy, but that's what a beta is for. The network configuration seems to die horribly when wireless is being used. ACPI is the default instead of APM, but most of the modules aren't loaded. Attempting to load the battery module causes a kernel panic. Hopefully I'll have time soon to check for existing bug reports and open a few up.

And I'm surprised to see that they haven't taken advantage of XFree86 4.3's ability to change resolutions on the fly and have it change the desktop size. Then again, maybe I just didn't find the option.

I can't wait to see the final release.
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by JamesHenstridge · 2002-12-23 17:47 · Score: 2

There is support for the RandR extension in the latest releases of gtk+ (including the version in the beta). I don't know if any apps have been modified to use it though. Probably the only ones that need to care about screen size changinges are the window manager (metacity), the panel and nautilus.
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-24 01:07 · Score: 0

Either you have a super-ninja PC, or you are simply deluded, or lying.
gnome-terminal now uses the VTE widget... which is slow to the point of being unusable by anyone not owning a very fast machine. Even well-specced PCs with good gfx cards suffer badly. On top of that, GTK2 is *slow* compared to every other toolkit for X. Try dragging a window across a GTK2 app's toolbar, for example. Yuk. Those responsible for this abomination (chiefly, Havoc "optimise my code? I'm too busy removing options" Pennington) should be hung, drawn and quartered for the fuck up they have turned GNOME 2 into.
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by lmfr · 2002-12-27 04:42 · Score: 1

I have found gnome-terminal+vte slow but not because of gnome it self but because of Xft. The rendering of anti-alias text is what is consuming my processor power...
Re:8.1 will have to wait... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-27 08:32 · Score: 0

No it is not -- I've heard this excuse every single time I've brought this subject up. I've switched anti-alias text off, and gnome terminal+GTK2 are still dog-shit slow. And this happens on various machines and distros and compiler options and packages.

Just to be clear: This cannot be blamed on eye-candy. It is pure bloat and piss-poor coding. The GNOME2 developers have relied on Nautilus improvements to make G2 look faster than G1 (and optimising Nautilus was easy, there was plenty of room for improvement). Apart from Nautilus, G2 is a massive speed regression... and the developers ought to be ashamed.

Evolution by micaiah · 2002-12-23 08:39 · Score: 1

Man I hope they fixed the bugs in evolution. The main one for me was that it always crashed when printing. As soon as Evolution can fulfill this requirement I will be able to truly get off of XP/Outlook. I am not much of a gamer. :-)

Re:Evolution by xadhoom · 2002-12-23 10:44 · Score: 1

Yeah . to bad they not already ships evolution 1.2 , since is a long time ev is out.
But also if u're a gamer, u can also use linux... rtcw rulez!

--
I was there.
Re:Evolution by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 22:36 · Score: 0

It's fixed. You just need Evolution 1.2.1 and all the latest dependencies (gtkhtml etc.) from Red Carpet.

Re:IN FINLAND by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 08:43 · Score: 0

Student produces half-assed, inefficient and slow Minix clone and releases it under viral license; only working on it over the years laying poor hacks onto it in a sad attempt to raise it from its horribly coded depths.

Names by RealSurreal · 2002-12-23 08:47 · Score: 1

I'm always a numbnut that never gets these things so can someone explain the connection from Psyche to Phoebe?

Re:Names by OneEyedApe · 2002-12-23 09:20 · Score: 1

Psyche was the name of Redhat 8.0, Phoebe is the name of the beta of Redhat 8.1. This webpage has a list of the names up to 8.0, and as far as I can tell, there is no real pattern or logic to the names.

--
Life sucks, but death doesn't put out at all....
--Thomas J. Kopp
Re:Names by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 17:31 · Score: 0

Best connection I Googled up with was John Keats' "Ode to Psyche". Both names mentioned in it.
Re:Names by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 23:51 · Score: 0

That is an awesome site. It's unfortunate that the author isn't with RedHat anymore, but it's still very interesting to see how they link it all together.

Don't forget kernel.org by caluml · 2002-12-23 08:48 · Score: 3, Informative

Kernel.org mirrors Debian and Redhat. Or didn't you know? Plus they've moved from 100 to 250Mb/sec

Grab em while they're hot.
http://mirrors.kernel.org/redhat/redhat/linux/beta /phoebe/
Don't forget to use your local mirror from kernel.org if the main one gets slow. I find .pk and .ph are fast for me in the UK, believe it or not.

This is not whoring. It's showing people an alternative source for the future.

--
Get your own free personal location tracker

Re:Don't forget kernel.org by caluml · 2002-12-23 08:52 · Score: 2

Current bandwidth utilization 72.69 Mbit/s @ 20:50 UK time. I'll check back in a bit and see how it is doing :)
Also, ftp.pk.kernel.org only seems to be good for the RedHat 8.0 isos. Maybe I'm confused. I'll go and lie down.

--
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Re:Don't forget kernel.org by caluml · 2002-12-23 09:15 · Score: 2

Current bandwidth utilization 105.17 Mbit/s @ 21:14 UK time. I control the internet! People ph33r me :) I'm so lame. I mean l33t.

--
Get your own free personal location tracker

Re:If RedHat used honest version numbers... by sardonic2 · 2002-12-23 08:50 · Score: 1

We run red hat 7.2 on most our production server. Run perfect... maybe someone has hardware isues...

Red Hat by sardonic2 · 2002-12-23 08:58 · Score: 1

I think its great that Red Hat keeps releasing. Some people believe they are too "Microsoft-ish" and are lacking stability. I must say though, out of the box is is the easiest, and most friendly distro there is. Though it comes with a lot of services running by default, well more than a base Gentoo install (heh). Gentoo is cool and there may be a "speed" increase, but Red Hat installs in under an hour (with X and Gnome), when Gentoo takes forever to compile. Red Hat is going to be a competitor against Microsoft, and its becoming obvious now and the key to that is its user friendly for the masses, even my sister uses it now as a primary os its just that easy and full featured.

For RedHat Newbies.. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:00 · Score: 0

..Here's a brief terminology of what the various release numbers mean.

x.0 - You're fscking nuts, aren't you?
x.1 - Hope you liked your data stir-fried.
x.2 - Hey, RedHat put out a new release! About time!
x.3 - I'm lazy, and don't want to download security updates.

Stick with x.2 or x.3 releases, unless you know what you're doing and are willing to ride the stormy sea of buggage.

WTF? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:00 · Score: 0

Why? Just su root and type:

up2date mozilla

As for the drivers, I seriously doubt you need to download whole ISO's just for that.

If you're into beta testing, well that's another thing, but I don't understand why people would download whole ISO's just for a few new features.

Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 14:10 · Score: 0

Because of all the bug fixes. Lets face it linux is very buggy. Mostly local exploits but still I want to avoid as many problems as possible. At 653kbps I dont really mind the download.
Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 16:32 · Score: 0

apt-get

What's left to take out of Redhat? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:00 · Score: 0

They took out MP3, MPEG, Xine, Mplayer, Ogle, Sawfish for GNOME, and neutered KDE to the point it was unusable. Why bother releasing more, what are they doing to do, remove all the shells and GNOME?

"Redhat, now perfect... nothing left to go wrong! (pssst... pay us $60 a year)"

Dude, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:02 · Score: 0

MP3 license, yep they could
get one, but they couldn't
distribute the program in
question under the terms of
the GPL. (Because people who
get xmms from Redhat couldn't
freely distribute the program
themselves, as required by the
terms of the GPL.)

The nVidia drivers are not
there for a similar reason.
Redhat doesn't have the right
to distribute them. nVidia does
not want them to be under the
terms of the GPL, and so doesn't
allow the distribution of them
compiled against the GPL'd Linux
kernel.

glibc by xer.xes · 2002-12-23 09:02 · Score: 1

Too bad it ships with glibc 2.3.1.. It's buggy to the max (just look at the recent debian unstable/sid troubles)..

Ah well.. I sure hope RH has fixed all the remaining problems :).

--
xer.xes -- 4181

Re:glibc by Tralfamadorian · 2002-12-23 09:31 · Score: 1

I am not sure about this particular instance, but RH sometimes patches software before shipping. So what they call 2.3.1 might be stock 2.3.1 w/ the fixes.
Re:glibc by EzInKy · 2002-12-23 11:31 · Score: 2

I've been compiling with 2.3.1 for almost 2 months now on my Gentoo system and the only real hitches I've had is with running code compiled against older versions.

--
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Re:glibc by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 12:30 · Score: 0

Which is a grave bug, since glibc is supposed to be backwards compatible.

Help! Help! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:09 · Score: 0

I got the new Red Hat, but when I tried to play it on my CD player all I heard was this weird screeching sound. A friend of mine told me it would work in ANY CD-ROM drive. Do I need to buy a DVD player now?

Re:If RedHat used honest version numbers... by fdisk3hs · 2002-12-23 09:12 · Score: 1

we use 7.2 on our database server because the vendor, raining data, has only tested and supports 7.2. i was unhappy to see that redhat does not allow a custom kernel during install, which is something that most unix-like os's do...
made the install take two days instead of one...
i swear p4 optimizations were worth the recompile though...

Missing stuff!!! by fymidos · 2002-12-23 09:12 · Score: 1

No Windowmaker !!.
No greek fonts (still!!).
No mp3 support.

Nevermind the last, the first two should be there..

--
Washington bullets will simply be known as the "Bulle

Re:Missing stuff!!! by Karn · 2002-12-23 10:32 · Score: 1

Hey, anyone wanting to run Windowmaker (or Afterstep, or Enlightenment) should be tough enough to download and compile from source. :)

As for the fonts, well, that does suck.

--

Why do I keep typing pythong?
Re:Missing stuff!!! by kevcol · 2002-12-23 10:42 · Score: 1

Hey, anyone wanting to run Windowmaker (or Afterstep, or Enlightenment) should be tough enough to download and compile from source. :)

I agree though the further winnowing down of loadable window managers points to the possibility that there will be only one option on RH in the not too distant future.

Truth be told, RedHat sucked at integrating Window Maker anyway. There was little menu integration with apps you actually loaded. SuSE which still throws the kitchen sink at you handled the various WMs much better; YAST and YAST2 always did a decent job of updating the menus' app selections. With RedHat, if it wasn't Gnome you were using, chances are the apps named in a menu list were broken and you had to load the ones you wanted by hand.

I still love Window Maker.
Re:Missing stuff!!! by fymidos · 2002-12-23 10:55 · Score: 1

yeah, well, i can easily install the fonts as well.
but what's the point in buying a distro then?

Apart from that, and this seems very strange to me, the most widely used distro is not the *bigger* one.

--
Washington bullets will simply be known as the "Bulle
Re:Missing stuff!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 13:35 · Score: 0

Get this for WindowMaker. http://www.fewt.com/wmakermenu/

Re:next beta name by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:14 · Score: 0

Miss Chanandler Bong

Wow! Font smoothing!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:15 · Score: 0

Windows 3.1 had this with an ATI card and its crystalfont feature. Linux is innovating! Next they'll come out with "32-bit disk access" and "permanent swap file".

needs UFS by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:16 · Score: 0

What linux needs is UFS. Oh, wait. FreeBSD already has that. Hmm, why not just run FreeBSD instead?

Re:Another Redhat, more Microsoftalike? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:18 · Score: 1, Insightful

No, they are not both Window Managers.

And you can still change the god damned default theme in Redhat.

Is it that hard for you people to change the default theme to something else? I go to http://www.kde-look.org all the time and change the look of my Redhat 8 setup.

Font install by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:18 · Score: 0

with 8.0 to install fonts you just dump them into ~/.fonts or into a directory under your system font directory. 'service xfs restart' and the new fonts are available.

Re:Font install by bzzzt · 2002-12-23 21:02 · Score: 1

Better: you don't even have to restart xfs... just wait a few seconds for it to pick up the new fonts...

Re:IN FINLAND by tomhudson · 2002-12-23 09:22 · Score: 2

Student produces half-assed, inefficient and slow Minix clone and releases it under viral license; only working on it over the years laying poor hacks onto it in a sad attempt to raise it from its horribly coded depths. </quote>

#!/usr/bin/perl

open(QUOTE, "http://slashdot.org") or die "fucked again!\n";

s/Student/Bill Gates/;

s/Minix clone/Windows/;

print;

====== Candidate for the perl de-obfuscation contest. :-)

Re:You spelled... by NeverseeN · 2002-12-23 09:24 · Score: 1

Jebus Where is Jebus

Re:Another Redhat, more Microsoftalike? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:27 · Score: 0

Greate.

> Any other questions ?

Source of Windows ?
Is there other distribution based on Windows ?
Is Windows POSIX compliante ?
Can Windows mount an ext[23], reiserfs, ... partition like Linux mount a FAT partition ?
Is Windows freely available ?
Why this stupide serial number ? ...

Anti-Aliasing? by tjw · 2002-12-23 09:30 · Score: 1

So does this mean that RedHat has licensed Apple's Patents ?

If they removed MP3 support, you'de think they would have considered the liability of including anti-aliasing support. Or is there just a checkbox that says I have a license from Apple?

--

XJS*C4JDBQADN1.NSBN3*2IDNEN*GTUBE-STANDARD-ANTI-UB E-TEST-EMAIL*C.34X

Re:Anti-Aliasing? by tjw · 2002-12-23 09:37 · Score: 1

Oops, it looks like I misunderstood what those patents cover. It appears that the patents are only for auto-hinting, not for anti-aliasing in general.

--

XJS*C4JDBQADN1.NSBN3*2IDNEN*GTUBE-STANDARD-ANTI-UB E-TEST-EMAIL*C.34X
Re:Anti-Aliasing? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:56 · Score: 0

You don't need a license from Apple for Anti-aliasing. You need a license from Apple (or live in a country where their patent doesn't apply) to use the bytecode interpreter, which makes improvements to the readbility of already-antialiased text.

Can some one tell me... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:31 · Score: 0

why SuSE included the NVidia drivers and MP3 support, but RedHat did not?

Are they just that much smarter? Their distro is already that much better.

Re:Can some one tell me... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 11:13 · Score: 0

Well, Suse originates from a country that isn't ruled by fascist coops and their lawyers.

super hi rez applications by Alien54 · 2002-12-23 09:34 · Score: 2

Xft antialiased fonts

I can recall at more than one person who would set their screen rez incredibly high, so everything would be incredibly tiny.

This way nothing would be readable except when you are really close to the screen. a good way to mess with managers and older ciollege professors.

Now they'll have to set the rez even higher.

the humanity

--
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"

Re:super hi rez applications by tempfile · 2002-12-23 09:37 · Score: 3, Informative

Too small text doesn't come from high physical resolutions, but from a wrong logical one. If you crank up your physical resolution, you have to adjust the dpi settings (called "User Defined Font Size" in Windows). A typical 17" running at 1152x864 has approx. 100 dpi, with 1600x1200, you're up to 140.

Higher physical resolution means finer text, not smaller one.
Re: super hi rez applications by Antity · 2002-12-23 23:09 · Score: 2

I can recall at more than one person who would set their screen rez incredibly high, so everything would be incredibly tiny.

That's called "Hardware antialiasing" on CRTs. :-)

--
42. Easy. What is 32 + 8 + 2?

DMA off by default in RedHat. WHY?! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:36 · Score: 0

Well, that's exactly what I wrote.

But why? And why the hell doesn't it say so anywhere? The first boot after installation could at least show an alert or even query you if you would like to enable DMA.

Saying "you could enable it with hdparms" is just silly. I have been using Linux since 1994 and it took me awhile to understand what was going on. What do you think will happen when a potential new Linux user tries RedHat and the system grinds to a halt every time he accesses CD-ROM or has a busy HD?

Re:DMA off by default in RedHat. WHY?! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-24 21:38 · Score: 0

I have been using Linux since 1994 and it took me awhile to understand what was going on.

HAHAHAHAHA 14m3r.

Extremly flamable development by AnonymousCowheard · 2002-12-23 09:37 · Score: 1

I had two associations with RedHat...RedHat 5.2 for x86 and RedHat 7.0. RedHat 5.2, to my first newbie perception, was quite stable with my hardware and I didn't need to upgrade any of the software to use any of the latest TCL/TK and commercial programs X11-based programs unless somthing Gnu came along and I of'course had to hunt and seek the elusive toolkit on freshmeat.net or sourceforge.net. However, enter the 7.0 and after buying and installing 7.0 on my x86 and Alpha, I had all kinds of problems that were specific to RedHat; bleeding-heart beta Gnu C Compiler was used, software wouldn't compile, and as well they decided to use all kinds of other out-right bleeding-edge beta software in RedHat 7.0. Yes I upgraded, but when you were like me with only a mere 56k internet connection, it really hurts when somthing requires much technical attention to download, build, and properly install the correct software. I didn't purchase a RedHat 7.1 upgrade, I duplicated my buddy's just so I have a reference in-case I had to do it all over again. RedHat is worse than Microsoft, in this respect, yet RedHat didn't cost as much money. From the reports I've read, RedHat 6 was the golden release, but I don't know because I've never gone back to RedHat.

I disagree with much of the user-land software they use to maintane a Linux-based OS. RPM and Debian's apt are all following the way of the Microsoft System Registry; exploitable and an easy target of destruction, no matter what benefits they offer, none can identify trojan software. I've tried Debian 2.2 since my RedHat days and it is simply stable and nice; not bleeding edge, complete opposite of RedHat's development spectrum, yet easily updatable to the bleeding edge software that gives Linux much of its shine. I kept Debian 2.2 on my Alpha. I checked over at Gentoo, they declare Alpha support, but no avail to my perception. I checked Slackware, but they seem to only support Miata; that's fine if you have one of the many nice Miata (Personal Work Station) systems out there, just not me; Slackware on my x86 is verry nice and I would've chosen it to be on my Alpha, but they can't support it: that's a-ok buddies. Slightly off-topic these comments may be, I must say that I am still not trying RedHat's OS anymore. I read the specifications on this latest RedHat OS release and it is quite disturbing of what software they are integrating. Part of my disgust with RedHat is without an extremly fast internet connection or general knowledge of system upgrading procedusres outside of redhat up2date, it will take many almost uncountable days to replace the unstable system software with proven-stable and production software. Debian and RedHat are completly different in these respects. The only advantage to using RedHat is that much of the latest hardware is only supported in the bleeding-edge system software they choose to support. Debian, is at-least stable on hardware that has been in circulation for more than 6 months. This is not limited to drivers, RedHat chooses to simply use the latest system-level software; I don't like the broken compatibility associated with using the latest Gnu Libc; commercial software often breaks and I have much commercial software that will still only properly run on Gnu Libc 2.1.3...and here RedHat is using 2.3.1 in its beta!

In my experience, the instability often associated with the latest system-level software is not worth giving a bad impression of Linux to the customers. I am skilled enough to fix RedHat's or Debian's mistakes, and I am quite kind and non-judgmental in their market-wise observations, yet I cannot speak for the thousands of bleeding-edge new linux users that will buy the software that bleeds inside their computer. A feature freeze would be nice, but that would be too easy.

--

But I'm sure you already Gnu that.

Re:Another Redhat, more Microsoftalike? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 09:43 · Score: 0

erm mplayer and wmp are two different programs. mplayer is the greatest media player on the planet. wmp is the one filled with the most DRM. and im sure redhat will include mplayer in their distro sooner or later...

good god... by erroneus · 2002-12-23 09:48 · Score: 2

...and I just got around to installing RedHat 8.0.

And to all of you out there bad-mouthing RedHat 8.0? Even though I don't really know what I'm talking about yet, I think you're all wrong and suck and stuff. It looks pretty good to me so far.

Re:good god... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 11:21 · Score: 0

Oh yeah? Well, I don't plan to install 8.0 until next week and you're totally wrong.

Re:If RedHat used honest version numbers... by sloanster · 2002-12-23 09:50 · Score: 1

2 days instead of one?

Gee let me see - last 3 servers I installed RH on, it was about an hour for the install, about 20 minutes for the updates, then about 10 minutes to compile a custom kernel.

2 days? somebody needs to be fired...

My comments.... by Micah · 2002-12-23 09:50 · Score: 3, Informative

Looking at the package list...

On the surface it seems good that they're upgrading to Mozilla 1.2.1, but I've had several problems with it compared to 1.0.1. It doesn't display updates to some XUL properties correctly after they update with JavaScript (Yes, I filed it... Bugzilla #185432). Also, it's not caching anything. If I press the BACK button or View Source, it always reloads the page. That's bad news.

OpenOffice.org -- fine now at 1.0.1, but I think the OOo folks are planning a bugfix release soon. Hopefully that will make it in the final release. OOo in RH8 has, for me, crashed the whole X server several times when scrolling around in certain Word and Excel documents. The development branch 643C fixes that problem. Has that happened to anyone else?

Anyone know what "musicbrainz" and "redland" are?

PHP: still at 4.2.2. Apache: still at 2.0.40. PHP 4.3 sounds like it will have a boatload of improvements. They're including beta versions of KDE, Gnome, and X (which will probably be finalized by release date), so why not PHP? And Apache has had several updates since then.

PostgreSQL 7.3. Nice, but upgrading requires a dump and restore. Is that a wise thing to do inside the 8.x series?

Why don't they include SDL_ttf??? Several programs require it. For 8.0, I couldn't find a binary RPM and had to build a source RPM. That worked, except that it conflicted with a /usr/bin/showfont that was already installed. That's not too cool.

Overall, it looks like it will definitely be better than 8.0, but not a revolutionary upgrade.

Re:My comments.... by cschmidt · 2002-12-23 10:54 · Score: 1

I know that OpenOffice has had problems running with glibc 2.3.1 (see this bug) so I find it interesting that it will be included. I haven't been able to get it to work, but RedHat must have worked around it somehow.

Check out Musicbrainz for an official description, but it's basically a music metadatabase like freedb or cddb.

--

Who am I to blow against the wind? -- Paul Simon
Re:My comments.... by lowen · 2002-12-23 11:13 · Score: 1

Regarding PostgreSQL 7.3

This is not the first time Red Hat has changed PostgreSQL versions in minor releases, so it does have a precedent. (5.0 - PG 6.2.1 -> 5.1 - PG 6.3.2 : 6.0 - PG 6.4.2 -> 6.1 - PG 6.5.2 : 7.1 - PG 7.0.3 -> 7.2 - PG 7.1.3 -> 7.3 - PG 7.2.1 -- two changes in the 7.x cycle!). So this is par for the course.

And this migration (from 7.2 to 7.3) is the most hairy one yet.

I say that being the RPM maintainer for the PostgreSQL Global Development Group. I have been battling this upgradeability situation for over three years now. It isn't pleasant.

--
Lamar Owen
Re:My comments.... by Cyno · 2002-12-23 11:40 · Score: 2

I believe they are including additional features in the install so something like PostgreSQL could be upgraded at a later time than the distro, assumings its dependencies are backwards compatible.
Re:My comments.... by Micah · 2002-12-23 11:41 · Score: 2

Yeah, you're right. It doesn't matter that they go from something like 7.2.0 to 7.2.2 in a minor series, but since their main goal is to never break binary compatibility, it seems as though it's a huge mistake for them to upgrade PG when it will break the database, UNLESS they make an automated dump/restore script run as part of the distro upgrader (which shouldn't be too hard to do actually).

I just immagine the poor person who upgrades Red Hat and then finds that their PG databases are unusable. Now that the old version has been wiped out, how in the world are they going to get their data back???

Doh by JourneymanMereel · 2002-12-23 09:51 · Score: 1

Send to compressed folder to make a .zip file... why didn't I think of that, after all it makes so much sense!!

</sarcasm>

--
Life has many choices. Eternity has two. What's yours?

Re:Doh by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2002-12-23 10:04 · Score: 2

Send to compressed folder to make a .zip file... why didn't I think of that, after all it makes so much sense!!
Not only that, the advice is misleading, and untrue. This will only use NTFS file-compression on the individual files. This does bear any of the hallmarks of a real compressed archive. It's definitely not a cross-platform unit with stored pathnames, etc. In fact, if you copy these individual files off onto other media, or send them by e-mail, they are in fact uncompressed.

--
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."

Re:If RedHat used honest version numbers... by DA-MAN · 2002-12-23 09:55 · Score: 1

Looks like someone did a full install of emacs

--
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum

How bout the next beta by crea5e · 2002-12-23 10:02 · Score: 2, Funny

be called smelly cat. Red Hat Smelly Cat. Sure pheobe can make a charming lyric for it.

Check the facts by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 10:08 · Score: 0

For a lot of chipsets, XP defaults to PIO mode actually. So check your facts before you call someone a dumbass you dumbfsck.

Re:Check the facts by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 10:30 · Score: 0

Dumbfsck? Sorry, but we Windows users prefer the term dumbscandisk or dumbchkdsk.

Put Redhat on Kazaaa and get it there by HanzoSan · 2002-12-23 10:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

Upload it to Kazaa so the rest of us can download it from you

--
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac

Re:Put Redhat on Kazaaa and get it there by alanwj · 2002-12-23 17:42 · Score: 2

Upload it to Kazaa so the rest of us can download it from you

This is a fantastic idea that I fully support (and a perfect use of a P2P network). However, I'd like to point out that people should still download the file MD5SUM from a trusted source (such as ftp.redhat.com). That way you can check to make sure nothing malicious has been done to the disc images you are downloading (or, probably more likely, that they have not become corrupted).

If you already have Linux installed, you can check the images by placing MD5SUM in the same directory and executing the command:

md5sum -c MD5SUM

Alan
Re:Put Redhat on Kazaaa and get it there by jmkaza · 2002-12-24 02:07 · Score: 1

How are you using Kazaa if you run Linux?
Re:Put Redhat on Kazaaa and get it there by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-24 04:43 · Score: 0

www.winehq.org

Re:Wow! Font smoothing!!! by xadhoom · 2002-12-23 10:39 · Score: 1

And probably you've to plug in the power chord to discover that your pc could also crash if m$ powered.... Unfortunately Linux is too old, too bad that could not yet crash as well m$ do...

--
I was there.

wow by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 10:46 · Score: 0

you sure do suck

Re:Wow! Font smoothing!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 10:48 · Score: 0

Windows 3.1 wouldn't crash unless you worked it out too hard. Like trying to run Notepad and File Mangler at the same time.

If I had a dime for every time I've heard this... by bogie · 2002-12-23 10:50 · Score: 2

Since KDE has existed every single time a new KDE release is within a few months of a potential Redhat release(ie every freaking Redhat release) someone says this. I'll just make this clear in case you didn't know.

Redat does not, cannot, will not, and should not, TIE THEIR EVERY RELEASE to what the KDE group is doing. If the latest KDE happens to be ready when Redhat begins its testing cycle then it gets included. If not, oh well, you'll need to download the new KDE rpms's when they are ready.

In case you were wondering I AM a KDE user. I don't even use GNOME. But not matter how much I like KDE, I'm not foolish enough to think Redhat should dictate its release cycle on it. Maybe someday when KDE makes us more than .5% of the desktop market it will be worth considering. But until that day its not worth delaying.

--
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch

Re:If RedHat used honest version numbers... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 10:51 · Score: 0

Or maybe someone actually locked down the box, and configured it correctly. Maybe he spend 90% of the time removing half the crap that Redhat puts in. Maybe you should [both] check your facts before slagging someone off. Shrug.

Re:If RedHat used honest version numbers... by ElGuapoGolf · 2002-12-23 10:51 · Score: 1

I don't care if you've got the freakin fastest computer in the world, but 10 minutes to compile a custom kernel is only half the story. You've got to add the entry into grub, make your modules directories, copy modules over, etc.

And if you've got any sort of soundcard, you'll have to reboot, recompile alsa, do the same module dance. Same thing for Nvidia.

Not to mention testing. If you're taking 10 minutes to do your custom kernel on any sort of production server, you're obviously not testing, and *somebody* needs to be fired.

Yea it sucks, why are they trying so hard? by bogie · 2002-12-23 11:12 · Score: 2

I mean what are they thinking? Trying to improve their product so quickly. Especially beta testing for a few months so that its as stable and bug free as they can make it. IMO they sould just wait till a few weeks before release, rush through a beta period, and then release it bugs and all. I know they make releases every six months, and that this too will follow that pattern, but what are they thinking getting the community involved so early in the release cycle? It's almost like they want to get our input so they can make a better product, weird?

Oh well, too bad I'm forced to download this beta and also the final release. They'll probably have the nerve to make this release free as well. Bastards.

--
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch

Fonts Fonts Fonts by Jan+Venema · 2002-12-23 11:13 · Score: 1

for the desktop version please. Would be nice to have Tahoma Verdana etc.. preinstalled. If this is legally impossible, I would like to have Lahoma, Lerdana etc..

Re:Fonts Fonts Fonts by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 19:31 · Score: 0

So install the fonts yourself. It's not hard. Don't blame RedHat for lack of fonts when it takes a couple of minutes to read how to install them and seconds to do the actual installing. That's like blaming RedHat for "lack of MP3 support out of the box" when anyone can install an RPM in 10 seconds to give MP3 support.

Red Hat Beta vs FreeBSD 5.0 by rinkjustice · 2002-12-23 11:17 · Score: 0, Offtopic

What os is more fun for hackers to use? What has more goodies? Any thoughts?

--
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON

Lack of NTFS support. by hateddamntruth · 2002-12-23 11:23 · Score: 1

You can thank Micro$oft's selfishness and secrecy for that. They refuse to open the specification for NTFS even though it has to deal with your data. That's why a lot of people hang on to the old FAT/FAT32/VFAT or just use SAMBA (an amazingly ingenious hack, I might add). Any support for NTFS has to be reverse-engineered from scratch. Presently, it is possible to read from NTFS, but writing to it may be buggy due to the difficulty in decifering the protocols. One more reason to keep anything from Micro$oft at arms length, and to continue weaning oneself off proprietary implementations.

Re:Another Redhat, more Microsoftalike? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 11:32 · Score: 0

Weird. I changed the default theme, but my screensaver's still broke, my font installer is still broke, there's no GUI to edit my menus and I can't shut down my computer without going to the command line. Maybe I installed the wrong theme?

Caching. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 11:36 · Score: 0

"Also, it's not caching anything. If I press the BACK button or View Source, it always reloads the page. That's bad news."

You can set the preferences to whatever you like under Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Cache -> Compare the page in cache to the page on the network.

You're welcome.

Re:Caching. by Micah · 2002-12-23 12:07 · Score: 2

You can set the preferences to whatever you like under Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Cache -> Compare the page in cache to the page on the network.

Well I HAD that set to the default, "when the page is out of date." I just changed it to "once per session" and it looks like it's still doing it.

SCSI install needs floppy? by richmaine · 2002-12-23 11:39 · Score: 1

From the release notes, it sounds like I'll now need a floppy to install on systems with SCSI hard disks (which almost all of the ones I run are). Bummer. particularly for the ones that don't have floppy drives

Hmm, perhaps the few that don't have floppy drives are a subset of the few non-SCSI ones (mostly some laptops). Still, it seems a step backwards, and an extra hassle.

I haven't seen anything about the stuff that most annoyed me with 8.0 (and has kept me from inflicting 8.0 on my users). Things like the horrible menu (and the inability to edit it).

I also miss netscape in 8.0. Mostly I use Mozilla, but there are a few things that just don't (yet?) work in Mozilla. For example, I cannot for the life of me get some java stuff to run with Mozilla at work, even though the same stuff works with an almost identical setup at home. My best guess on that one is that Java isn't going through the proxy correctly, because that's the only difference I can see in the setups (no stinking mandatory proxy at home).

Screenshots by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 11:49 · Score: 0

Here is a link to some installation screenshots.

http://192.197.108.174/modules.php?set_albumName =a lbum23&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include= view_album.php

This type of thing seem unavoidable... by rollthelosindice · 2002-12-23 11:51 · Score: 1

With so much development coming from so many fronts, it seems like every time there is a big release of a dsitro, or a window manager, or a kernel, they don't coincide with one another time frame wise. But they all catch up eventually, so you can either continue to wait, or install it yourselves.

what I want to know... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 12:32 · Score: 0

why THE FUCK are my KDE menus fuxxored up after I re-compiled red hat's RPM's for 3.0.3?

my Konq menu turned into "catiokma ttirnd"

my konsole menu bar now says "ssittir"

I deleted my config and IT'S STILL MESSED UP!!

argh

grumble

wanna upgd to 8.1 just to fix that.

Whats so good about KDE 3.1? by HanzoSan · 2002-12-23 12:40 · Score: 2

Its just KDE 3.0 with less bugs.

KDE 3.2 will have all the new features.

--
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac

Re:Whats so good about KDE 3.1? by twener · 2002-12-23 21:03 · Score: 1

KDE 3.1 no new features? Read this: http://developer.kde.org/development-versions/kde- 3.1-features.html

You forgot the best one... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 12:40 · Score: 0

University Wisconsin Madison
ftp://mirror.cs.wisc.edu/pub/mirrors/linu x/redhat/ beta/phoebe

Xfree86 5.0 by HanzoSan · 2002-12-23 12:42 · Score: 2

When Xfree86 5.0 comes out thats when Linux will make its next advance on the desktop front.

Currently 4.3 is just 4.2 bug fixes with maybe a resize feature called randr

I would target a spring release for Redhat 8.1 and a Fall release for 8.2, then when Xfree5.0 comes out that will be Redhat 9.0 or 9.1

--
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac

New operating System Features? by acoustix · 2002-12-23 12:42 · Score: 2

So what's new in the operating system? Red Hat has nothing to do with Mozilla or glibc. At least microsoft adds new operating system features with new releases (along with 3rd party programs).

What's the point?

--
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson

Re:New operating System Features? by msaavedra · 2002-12-23 14:47 · Score: 1

Red Hat has nothing to do with Mozilla

Not true. Actually, Red Hat pays Christopher Blizzard to hack on Mozilla. You may recall that Blizzard is largely responsible for the cool new xft2 support in recent mozilla builds.

--
"Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it."
--Henry David Thoreau

Re:If RedHat used honest version numbers... by DA-MAN · 2002-12-23 13:12 · Score: 1

The parent post had stated that it took two days to install, not two days to install and lock down and configure. Even then two days is still a lil Jr. Admin-ish. And as for removing the crap RH put in, why not run with a more minimal distro to begin with or perhaps OpenBSD.

--
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum

Re:IN FINLAND by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 13:23 · Score: 0

I will be praised as an ingenius camel coder when I write a perl script that can shut up Linux fags and stop their zealotry (after all, Perl can do _anything_, right?).

Are we still stuck with bluecrap? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 13:28 · Score: 0

Redhat made a big thing about KDE and Qt being open source for the cause of freedom, as in speech. Now they are forcing everybody to use their interface. This is freedom? Maybe they wanted meant free as in beer.

Re:Are we still stuck with bluecrap? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 17:54 · Score: 0

Hey, dickhead. Yeah you. Come here.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

They don't make you use their theme. It's KDE, so go to Control Center and change it. Holy shit, you are dumb.

Re:IN MEXICO by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 13:28 · Score: 0

Betas have to be smuggled into America.

Re:IN TURKMENISTAN by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 13:33 · Score: 0

Turkmenistan is kind of gay. Really.

Re: IN IRAQ by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 13:40 · Score: 0

You'll probably beat up if you don anything symbolizing America.

Upgrading RedHat distros remotely? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 13:50 · Score: 0

The biggest pain with RedHat is that there is no way to conveniently remotely upgrade a server running a previous version of RedHat (e.g., an "up2date --dist-upgrade" like command). This seems like such a colossal shortcoming for a server os that RedHat should have remedied by now, especially since new versions are released so often.

Does anyone know if kickstart can somehow be shoehorned into doing this?

So, what's new ? by bicatu · 2002-12-23 13:52 · Score: 1

One of the things that could help it to have a list (albeit non-final) of the planned features so we could decide to download and try.

It's rather frustating download just to find a new KDE version of .something updates in other packages.

So, what can we expect from this new release ? by bicatu · 2002-12-23 14:26 · Score: 1

Besides KDE 3.1 and some minor upgrades in other packages what can expect as really new/cool feature ?

Re:So, what can we expect from this new release ? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 14:37 · Score: 0

Other packages? How about KDE 3.1, KDE 3.1, KOffice 1.2.1, and KDE 3.1. That's what else. I can't freaking wait!

Redhat Wish List by aashenfe · 2002-12-23 14:44 · Score: 1

Here is a quick list of features I'm wishing for 8.1.

1. A default ldap server setup that works. Modify all relevent system tools with the option of updating the ldap database instead of config files.
2. A decent hard drive management utility. Try to default to an all lvm system when possible, but allow for old style
3. New install type: X windows thin client.
4. Better printing. 8.0's printing subsystem seems to be a little flakey

Re:Redhat Wish List by Erwos · 2002-12-23 17:26 · Score: 1

Maybe I'm just confused, but how do you "install" onto a thin client? The whole point is that they don't have a hard drive on them.

LTSP is stupidly easy to use. Give them a try sometime.

-Erwos

--
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Re:Redhat Wish List by aashenfe · 2002-12-24 06:16 · Score: 1

Maybe my use of the word thin client is incorrect, or confusing (Maybe skinny :). This install option would use minimal disk space. So I could use an old 10M drive if I had to. Basically an easy way to turn a stack of old machines (with good harddrives) into usefull machines
The install would allow me to pick a primary server. It should also give me the option of using a remote font server.
I understand why LTSP would be desireable for a number of people, and it would be nice if it was included with Redhat. The only problem is where I work, I'm not in the department that controls the dhcp server and the server is windows 2000. I'm assuming a lot of people are in the same boat I'm in.
I sometimes set up machines with minimal installs to use as an X server, but a minimal install with redhat is hard to accomplish.
Thanks Adam

Re:IN NAZI GERMANY by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 15:39 · Score: 0

wow, the longest IN > thread in slashdot history

Update Question.. by edfel · 2002-12-23 15:41 · Score: 1

Hi

I am new to Linux and RED HAT. Any one knows if RH8 owners will be able to 'update' to whatever the new version will be (most likely 8.1) through the RedHat Network?

TIA

say what you want... by demmer · 2002-12-23 16:03 · Score: 1

... but i like blue curve... it is a clean simple, still not boring design... i spent a lot of time with looking for the best theme, but found only millions of mac os imitations and other useless bubble stuff... please add recommendations, if you have ...?

My normal rant re: ISOs and paying customers... by weave · 2002-12-23 16:42 · Score: 2

Ah, redhat, how about taking care of people who are paying you via the RHN and making the ISOs available through it? I just checked, not there. My company pays for an enterprise RHN license. It'd be nice if some of those couple grand a year we and others send your way could buy a nice fat pipe to download the latest ISO betas and get a jump on the paupers and cheapskates! :-)

Remember, it's a big deal to be the first on the net block to install the latest!

So when are Chandler,Monica et al due? by krishy · 2002-12-23 16:47 · Score: 1

So when will Chandler be out?.What?
Mitch Kapoor is working on it?

Re:Another Redhat, more Microsoftalike? by Karn · 2002-12-23 17:13 · Score: 1

My screensavers work fine. Perhaps they just aren't installed by default? Perhaps that's a bug that you should report to Redhat? I don't consider KDE crippled because the screensavers weren't installed by default.

Shutting down from the K menu is something you consider as a major feature? Again, this isn't exactly something I would consider a major showstopper. Are you nitpicking?

You're railing on them for not having a shutdown button in the start menu and not having the screensavers installed by default. I guess asking you to cut them just a little bit of slack is asking too much, eh? Even if they are the only big Linux player left that encourages you to download their ISOs without asking for some form of compensation.

--

Why do I keep typing pythong?

fontilus by JamesHenstridge · 2002-12-23 17:43 · Score: 2

Note that the 0.2 release of fontilus is the second release. There are a number of areas where I can improve and extend it.

Setting it up so that you can configure where fonts are placed when performing DnD font installation is a fairly simple imrpovement.

Re:IN SWEDEN by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 18:00 · Score: 0

Great porn. What else can I say?

Windows yes - applications don't cope well.. by Kjella · 2002-12-23 19:35 · Score: 2

At least, that's been my problem.. ok the most mainstream programs work. But many programs seems to have a completely fixed font size, or f*ck up things when the text "grows" in their buttons/panels. Which is why I'm running my monitor at less than max resolution (but then again I get 85Hz instead of 72Hz :)

Kjella

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings

Name by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-23 21:29 · Score: 0

As phoebe is one of the dogs of the war god Mars,
I presume, the next (beta) release will be either Deimos, or mars itself.

Guess this 'jihad' wil be against Osama bin gates...

Musicbrainz - Rhythmbox by salimma · 2002-12-24 01:32 · Score: 2

Rhythmbox depends on Musicbrainz - HTH :)

Argh, and this comes up just when I'm going away on a Christmas break. Oh well :p

--
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut

Re:ZIP Support in XP by Anonymous Coward · 2002-12-24 06:08 · Score: 0

Unless I'm misreading what you're saying, your comments about the "Send to Compressed Folder" option in XP are incorrect. Yes, NTFS has a file compression option(turned on at folder level in the folder properties), but this is not what Send to Compressed Folder does. It actually does create a ZIP file and package everything inside it. These ZIP files I have sent to numerous people running several different operating systems, and the entire directory tree set up inside the ZIP file/compressed folder shows up again without any problems...
-N. Smith

no by destiney · 2002-12-24 18:49 · Score: 1

it's pretty bad.. i just tried it.. wasn't pretty.. core dumps.. errors spewing up the screen.. wait for the movie..

Screenshots? by gigsvoo · 2002-12-29 13:52 · Score: 1

Does anyone knows where to get a peek on some screenshots for Phoebe? Pls email me at gigsvooATyahoo.com

--

Thanks
Neo Gigs
"Follow the white rabbit..."

Last Post! by alpg · 2003-01-05 15:17 · Score: 1

The misnaming of fields of study is so common as to lead to what might be
general systems laws. For example, Frank Harary once suggested the law that
any field that had the word "science" in its name was guaranteed thereby
not to be a science. He would cite as examples Military Science, Library
Science, Political Science, Homemaking Science, Social Science, and Computer
Science. Discuss the generality of this law, and possible reasons for its
predictive power.
-- Gerald Weinberg, "An Introduction to General Systems
Thinking"

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

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