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Want To Make Video Games?
Invader Zim writes "Looks like Levelord, of Ritual fame, and some folks at id, and Ensemble Studios have teamed together with Southern Methodist University to create a new school for people that want to work in the video games industry. It's called the Guildhall. Also a story about it at GameTutorials."
Hopefully, this will be a blessing for overcrowded Computer Sciences classes. I remember when I was a kid, all I wanted to do was make video games. Alas, most of university/college courses cover other things, such as business utilities, or math problems. While this does help programming skills, it isn't hands on experience in the field of choice for most students.
Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
Just wandering about the curious choice of school, given the problems we've seen lately with WalMart not carrying theose "ultra violent" games. Free speech and so on.
I was just wondering yesterday how someone would get training in video game development aside from teaching themselves. Glad to see this, and i hope it works out. Hopefully this will mean games will kick even more ass in the near future :)
Didn't Nintendo have some kind of "Game College" back in the day. I always remember my friends saying that they wanted to go there so they could just make games and play them all day.
I swear this is true.
Had me worried for a second. But a school in Texas would probably be an okay place to learn how to code first person shooters.
I had nightmares about what kind of video games a truly christian university would focus on.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
... the second most profitable computer software industry gets to have a school, why doesn't the most profitable one also have one? I would gladly pay the tuition to attend the porn school, and especially attend the labs.
Refreshing to see points going to people that aren't so uptight!
The video game industry is already cut-throat. It's already hard enough to make a living using your programming skills. Imagine how difficult it's going to be like to get a job with "Video Game College" on your resume.
Besides, do you really think a Methodist church is going to teach you how to create First Person Shooters?!
has added game development (BS degree), though I am doing the straight SE track.
cogswell.edu for those interested
"I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
Isn't that a little, well, nerdy? Do they forego grades in favor of experience points, and require new students to choose an Alignment and Class instead of a major?
Seriously, they should probably be going out of their way to appeal to creative non-geeks, artists and writers who can come up with new ideas and revitalize the stagnant game market. Sure, you can always eke out a few dollars from the latest boring iteration of a proven formula, Grand Theft Auto 7 or Warcraft VI. What the industry needs is fresh ideas from different sorts of people.
The very problem with the foundering game industry is that it's run by, well, let's just say the people who were picked last in kickball. Games appeal to the most antisocial element of society, because that's all their creators know. I guess it's too optimistic of me to ask this of the founders of this school...they're probably geeks themselves, with not a creative bone in their bodies.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
It's ironic that this happens and yet it's considered a poor-man's profession. Programmers in this field are generally poorly treated, with poor contracts, little chance of advancement, and little cross-skillification that would allow a programmer to move into a more respected arena. This is, in part, because it's an entertainment area, and in part because for every superskilled programmer who is able to push the arena into a new paradigm, there must be a hundred who can barely put together a bunch of assembler instructions to copy memory from one place to another without it taking five times as long as it ought to, and containing bugs.
This quagmire of the more innovative area of programming being hampered by a low perception of the people involved and the skills they bring to the table will not disappear by itself. Unless people are prepared to actually act, not just talk about it on Slashdot, nothing will ever get done. Apathy is not an option.
You can help by getting off your rear and writing to your congressman or senator. Tell them you value programmers who have the imagination and skills to create entirely new technologies for the manipulation of complex graphics, and who have the cut needed to understand the essentials of good game play. Tell them that you appreciate the work being done to create wonderful new games but that if good programmers are put off by poor working conditions and salaries, you will be forced to use less and less secure and intelligently designed alternatives. Let them know that SMP may make or break whether you can efficiently deploy OpenBSD on your workstations and servers. Explain the concerns you have about freedom, openness, and choice, and how poor working conditions detering the best of the best harms all three. Let them know that this is an issue that effects YOU directly, that YOU vote, and that your vote will be influenced, indeed dependent, on their policies on elite computer game programmers.
You CAN make a difference. Don't treat voting as a right, treat it as a duty. Keep informed, keep your political representatives informed on how you feel. And, most importantly of all, vote.
KMSMA (WWBD?)
Man Gets 70mpg in Homemade Car-Made from a Mainframe Computer
It's called the "LARC", for "Laboratory for Recreational Computing", and was started in 1993. Check it out here.
The lab is run by a professor (Ian Parberry) who has published a few books on game programming.
NO ONE IS HIRING!!!!!
...
...
...
... I think that would clearly illustrate just how flooded the market is with "computer people" that want to work in the video game market ...
... these people will TRY to get a job with an established video game company ... then TRY to start up their own video game company after 6+ months of unemployment ... then they'll rush a crappy product to market so that they don't starve to death ...
... I have a company like this ... and one our programmers did this!!!!
... it is our web hosting and web design that makes money and allows us to keep making games .... so how are unemployed people going to make games if you have to pay to keep games running?????)
/Venting >
< Venting >
Thats great that they're going to share some of their "trade secrets", but it won't do anyone any good if they can't land a job!!
So basically, they're going to help flood the programming world with young, ambitious "game" programmers that won't know how to or want to do anything but make video games
This will lead to flooding the market (even worse than it already is) with badly designed games that have a couple of pieces of eye candy
Actually, I wonder how many apps Blizzard just got for their Unix sysadmin position
The biggest problem will be the number of lives a school like this will ruin
Trust me
(btw: our games don't make money
<
HallmarkOrnaments.Com
Making video games is over-rated. If you enjoy very tight deadlines and having to cut corners due to time and budget restrictions then that's all well and good.
The pay is crap too.
With Romero on the staff you might see admissions by 2007 ;-)
I say go to college, major in math, and learn programming in your spare time. I bet it would be easier to find a job with math major on the resume.
and $37,000 tutition, there had better be job placement!
Bill: "Man, that midterm was Chaotic Evil"
Bob: "word"
I have just applied to universities here in the UK, and I looked at the few computer game design courses available.
Most of them are very poor, they have low enterance requirements (someone at my college got in without even a maths A level!), and aren't run by any of the good universities (imagine Oxford doing a BA in computer game design - hardly).
I've opted to do a generic as possible degree, a masters in computer science, at a good, respected university (either Oriel college Oxford, Durham or Bristol).
I can't imagine why anyone would want to do one of these fashionable degrees like "wireless computing", "internet technology" or the computer games ones. People who want to do game design should study maths, physics or pure computer science.
Think of it like this, how many really good directors or actors went to one of these film schools one sees advertised in the back of film mags? Probably not many.
The tuition rates are rounded to the nearest thousand, and the first semester fee's include:
" Tuition for the first term includes a fully loaded computer specially configured for digital game development."
http://guildhall.smu.edu/Admissions/tuition.htm
After further review, it appears that this is _quarterly_ rates. (6 term, 18 month program.)
It boggles the mind. They're not even pretending to educate any more. It's right out in the open.
I'm sure we all recognize the kind of student this will attract: Those unbathed, ill-groomed term-room troglodytes we knew in college, who gave out the terminal room phone number as their own and slowly, lumpishly flunked out.
Some of them stayed on anyway, parasitizing an institution that was no longer willing to tolerate their presence.
Now I guess we won't be flunking them out any more, we'll be giving them A's in "Self-Justification of Incompetence", "Advanced Parasitism", and "Stinking Like a Corpse". I can see it now -- Southern Methodist University will attract every drug-addled adolescent imbecile in the United States to this "program". Academic standards, already lowerd beyond all human tolerance, will sink beyond all nadirs previously imagined.
They're trying to produce a generation of young Americans so dismally uneducated that they'll fall for any idiotic junk-science and pseudo-philosophy that comes down the pike. A nation of perfect suckers to do as their told, a nation of drones incapable of thinking critically. The "recycling" industry will take off like a rocket (I'll be investing tomorrow, believe me) because these sad excuses for "college graduates" will be incapable of finding out where the "recycling" trucks actually go with the trash that the suckers have carefully sorted through (like bag ladies in their own homes, or slaves assigned as punishment to the garbage heap). Where do those trucks go, you ask? The dump, same as the other trucks. It's just obedience-training. The liberals always do what they're told, because they haven't the imagination or strength of will to create their own freedom.
I'm sorry if I'm ranting here, but I'm watching my nation get flushed down the toilet at the taxpayer's expense, and it's a bit hard to take.
Life is like a Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. I think... Perhaps it's the other way around. Who knows.
This sounds like fun. Live the ancient days of guilding. Be one of the chosen to be apprenticed in the new guild of game production.
So will Anne McAffrey make a new novel based on a lowly apprentice who beats the odds and becomes everyone's hero? (Apologies. I just finished the Harper of Pern trilogy)
Pre-requisites Applicants for the Software Development Certificate Program must demonstrate a basic understanding of a structured programming language by submitting at least three (3) samples of original code related to Game Development.
I thought you were going there to learn how to write games!?!
this is nuts. in a few years, we'll have
H ollywood
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O f
I deas
S o
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Yeah, I got nothin'.
It gets those harcore gamers out of the CS Classes so the CS Students can learn real CS without the gamers getting all fustrated because they are not learning how to make graphics. At least in my school the Wana be Game Programers were very closed minded indivuals who went into near panic when they were forced to be taught an algorithm that is not nessarly good for games. Concepts like Code creation time and updateability made them very fustrated and started complaining how big buisness is controlling the world. And you gotta love the mythos that they have thinking that being a game developer they are going to make a ton of money.
By putting them in a school that teaches them vidio games only get them to well specialized in one field and makes more job openings for generalized programers.
I want to make the world a better place. Sucking out kids mind with vidio games is not how.
what do you think the difference between a "First God Smiter" and a "First Person Shooter" is?
None that I can see.
There's a way around nearly every idiotic bias,at least for those with the intelligence to be game designers in the first place.
KFG
I have a friend that is a xbox developer in San Jose. I once joked to him that if he needs a play tester to call me asap :) He laughed and said, thats a job for my worst enemy. Apparently playing the same game, over and over and over at the same point (bug hunting, reproducing the error, etc) gets extremely boring ;(
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
There's another college in northern California that has a game design program. It's called Cogswell Polytechnical College (http://www.cogswell.edu). They're fully acredited and have a Bachelor's degree program for Computer Video Imaging and Computer Science with majors in game design, 2D animation, 3D character animation, video editing, etc. I'm in the game design program there, and I'm having the time of my life and am set to get a job at EA Games this summer.
The school also has a Game Development Club where many students get together and develop games each semester in the same process that most game companies do. Check out their website: http://www.fuzzywoto.org/
(it'll soon be changing to www.gameclubworldwide.com)
For a good personal account of game testing and the medium, check out this entry at Penny Arcade. It's a good description of the ups and downs of being a game tester.
--
Overcaffeinated. Angry geeks.
the easiest way to get a job at a games company is to be a *physicist.*
Here's your course work for your first sememster as a games programing major:
*English* 101
Physics 101
Calc 101
Intro to Computer Science - which will consist mostly of theory, but don't worry, you'll get to write "Hello World!" in four different languages.
KFG
A sequel to the game "Redneck Rampage" is due out 7/04.
My background is in various AI fields, and I would love to work at a game company. I don't really play too many games, though. The name (along with names such as the "Progammers' Guide" for a software developers' union) really turn me off. I am not into fanatasy and really don't get why it has to be pushed so hard by people in my choosen field.
english? Hmm. Never programmed that language...sounds like some kind of hokey scripting language...is it like Perl? :-P (and I'm a CS major at Rutgers. I did my two semesters of English, passed em with flying colors. I think I'll be fine. Now if I could just get throught this god damned calc...)
Viva La Revolucion! Buy a Mac!
Just look at how bad Notre Dame is viewed.
Or, y'know, "Levelord, of Duke Nukem 3D fame"? A little less obscure, I think...
1. Program game. 2. Release as shareware. 3. $$$ PROFIT $$$ Easy as pie. Unless you're completely untalented, in which case you probably shouldn't be creating games, neh?
That these schools produce no-talent programmers who know how to slap down a template for a 3D engine, but don't know much else. Most students I've met that have come out of these schools know little of basic algorithms and data structures, such as binary trees, let alone more complex computing topics such as encryption, compression, etc. I mourn the loss of the gaming industry if these things start becoming popular.
a +1 troll rating would be a good thing to have. The post is a true work of art, consisting of clearly factual, reasonably stated points, and still maintaining its essential "trollness."
There's no way to even tell it's a troll until you're most of the way through it.
A brilliant piece of work.
KFG
As someone who comes from a traditional academic background and now working in the game industry, I would like to say a few words.
Video games are becoming more "academic" as they become more complex, and games these days are a catalyst for continued innovation in areas such as graphics, AI, and physics simulation. Therefore, the intersection between video games and academia in general is growing all the more.
A traditional computer science/fine arts/film/music/etc. education to get the foundations of your chosen trade, be it programmer, artist, musician, etc. will serve you well compared to schools that just inject you with the latest "buzzwords" and techniques which will soon become obsolete as soon as the next big programming language/3D package/etc come out -- those schools to game industry what certifications like "MSCE" or "CNE" is to the IT industry: you can use your skills but don't expect them to last without additional training.
I am not criticizing gaming school as I am indeed aware that some of them do indeed have highly regarded programs that focus on the development of general technical and thinking skills, but do not think you MUST go to a "gaming" school to work in this industry, and if you choose to go that route, evaluate what they teach you very carefully.
-- Samir Gupta, Ph. D. Head, New Technology Research Group, Nintendo Co. Ltd., Kyoto, Japan.
1 w4n7 70 m4k3 g4m3z 50 ju4r3z k1dd135 c4n h4x0r 7h3m 4nd g1bb0rz 7h3m 70 7h31r fr13nd5!!
Trolling is a art,
Sounds like id and other game companies are looking to recruit well-trained pee-ons to make their maps and color their textures. A true game programmer would have to have good working knowledge of mathematics and physics, not to mention the extensive computer science back ground. I wonder if this "major" will have that?
For a new company, developing PC games in the US is sheer stupidity due to cost.
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
SMU person:Uh.. it says here your name is "Grandmaster DeathPig"
applicant: Yes, that is my name, mortal swine.
SMU person:ohhhkayyy.. well.. what is your father's surname?
applicant:My father is Cromlech, God of rot and putrifecation!
.
.
heh and I thought D&D was bad when I was in school.
Trolling is a art,
Heh... gotta love it when a goatse post gets modded up and a post bitching about that gets modded down. :D
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
is digipen
Yes but every time I try to see it your way, I get a headache.
I remember hearing about this from Romero himself way back in May '02. I saw him getting toasty at Milo Butterfinger's in Richardson, and I remember asking him what he was up to these days, and getting a good laugh out of hearing he was down to making games for mobile devices. Apparently he didn't think it was too funny, and that's he offered up he would be teaching classes on game design soon. IIRC, he indicated he would be teaching at University of North Texas. Later on in the summer, I remember hearing he was getting shit from the REAL professors at UNT, so I guess that's why it was switched to SMU.
I don't really give a rat's ass cos I hate that c*cks*cker [Romero] anyway, but why would they offer this program at an uber-rich white-kids school?
Hmmmm, I thought that seventies reject Levelord had better things to do that to hang with losers like Romero.
As someone who has also just filled in his UCAS form and got 6 offers from universities, i'd have to say i disagree with this.
Most of the courses are at Ex-polytechnics, with the low requirements that go with them, however on the most part the are excellent courses that do well to teach generic work as well straight games applications.
Case in point being my current favourite: Hull
An old style university doing Computer Science With Games Development
Entry requirement being BCC
Don't confuse low entry with bad courses, they dont' always go together, I have been to Oxford on the open days (i'm predicted AABA for A level) I'd have to say their courses are great theoretical courses, but seem to be incredibly low on practical applications.
Just my views though YMMV
"Tuition for the first term includes a fully loaded computer specially configured for digital game development. The student will use this computer through the six terms at The Guildhall. Ownership of the computer will pass to the student at the end of the fourth term"
Hmmm... that would make the computer worth about $2.00 by the time you graduate (which you can tack onto the $1.00 your degree will be worth).
What ever happened to the old way of learning how to code (be it for gaming or any other software centric industry)? Go to a normal university and study CS.
come on fhqwhgads
english? Hmm. Never programmed that language...sounds like some kind of hokey scripting language...is it like Perl?
The English programming language, used with the Pick operating system, is more like SQL.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I'm sorry, but if you are trying to sell a programming course, or curriculum, or whatever, it would be nice if the web-site worked...properly...with standards...since they are trying to teach Standards in Game Programming.
Anyway, there is no DOCTYPE in the page, sending the browser (Phoenix/Moz/Gecko based) into quirks mode, and the navigation is just a pain in the ass. It's a challenge of can I move my mouse fast enough over the other layers before the disappear or if I can move to the 2nd/3rd links before the sub-nav layer appears on top of the primary nav.
I'm glad they have this, and I think it is good, especially when being driven by these companies, but they should be able to present themselves too. After all, will you send your kid to a school that can't even present themselves? You are paying a lot of money...
"Time is long and life is short, so begin to live while you still can." -EV
Once again a lot of people are making comments without actually reading the article.
This is a certficate program and the requirements are actually pretty clear. It says a highschool diploma will be considered on a case by case basis. Guess what this means? They want people who already have some background in computers. They also have an art program and a couple others.
This doesn't sound like to bad of an idea, especially since the computer industry is becoming so large it might be nice to be able to special after getting the general stuff done.
"Twice a year, 100 are chosen for The Guildhall...This is an opportunity to test your mettle with the best in the business...It isn't easy, but The Guildhall can get you there. Do you accept the challenge?"
Weed out the weak, fight to the death, king of the mountain, competitive CRAP!! While this is the world of many games, this is totally inappropriate in education. Education should never be a boot camp. Damn competition! Let it be about teaching and nurturing, guiding, and learning for Christ's sake! And this is supposely a Christian college????
Did anyone else happen to take notice of the fact that this course(s) are going to be held at SMU - a private college that has a STRONG christian influence....I can see it now....
SMU: So what is the name of your project you are working on?
Student: Well I'm thinking of making an add-on to "Omnikron"
SMU: Oh and what do you do in this game?
Student: Well the game originally dealt with you transfering your soul into a character in another world through your game but you end up losing it to this demon and....
SMU: Excuse me but I don't think that would be a suitable game for our viewers!
Student: But i'm going to make it so Jesus saves you from hell
SMU: Oh, well in that case you get an A
*on a side note - the site wouldn't work on my Mac (as in I kept getting errors when trying to click on the links) - but on my PC it worked fine - nice going SMU!
Ave Molech Setting
So how long would you go afterwards? Here in Canada, U of Waterloo's CS takes about 3 years, then you'd take another 1-??? years taking that? It's a decent idea, but flawed. The amount of debt you would inevitably rack up would dictate that you get a job with one of the top gaming companies, just to pay off your debt from tuition and loans.
Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
... so give the guy at least a bit of credit. From the "Giant List of Classic Game Programmers" Romero, John [co-founder of id Software, Ion Storm, and Monkeystone Games] [T] Scout Search (June 1984, AP2, inCider) Cavern Crusader (1984, AP2, A+) contest winner Bongo's Bash (1985, AP2, inCider) [T] Major Mayhem (Dec 1987, AP2, Nibble) Evil Eye (1987, AP2, UpTime) Asteroids-like Subnodule (1987, AP2, Keypunch) Jumpster (1987, AP2, UpTime) Pyramids of Egypt (1987, AP2, UpTime) later (1989, PC, Softdisk) Lethal Labyrinth (1987, AP2, UpTime) Krazy Kobra (1987, AP2, UpTime) Snake Byte-like Wacky Wizard (1987, AP2, UpTime) Neptune's Nasties (1987, AP2, UpTime) Space Quarks-like Zippy Zombi (1987, AP2, UpTime) Q*Bert-like [N] GraBasic (1987, AP2, UpTime) [T] City Centurian (Dec 1988, AP2, Nibble) Dangerous Dave (1988, AP2, UpTime) later [G] (1990, PC, Softdisk) [G] Space Rogue (1988, AP2, Origin) [P] Might & Magic II (1988, C64, New World Computing) [T] Treasure Dive (1989, AP2, Nibble) later (1989, PC, Softdisk) as Twilight Treasures Sub Stalker (1989, AP2, Softdisk) Zappa Roids, with Lane Roathe (1989, AP2/GS/PC, Softdisk) Asteroids-like [P] Magic Boxes (1989, PC, Softdisk) Alfredo's Stupendous Surprise, with Tom Hall (1989, AP2, Softdisk) [P] How To Weigh An Elephant (1990, PC, Merit/Softdisk) [P] Dinosorcerer (1990, PC, Softdisk) [P] Same or Different (1990, PC, Merit/Softdisk) [G] Dark Designs (1990, AP2, Softdisk) level design only Double Dangerous Dave (1990, AP2, Softdisk) [G] Catacomb II (1990, PC, Softdisk) [G] Slordax (1990, PC, Softdisk) [G] Commander Keen: Marooned on Mars (1990, PC, id/Apogee) [G] Commander Keen: The Earth Explodes (1990, PC, id/Apogee) [G] Commander Keen: Keen Must Die! (1990, PC, id/Apogee) [G] Shadow Knights (1991, PC, Softdisk) [G] Dangerous Dave in the Haunted Mansion (1991, PC, id/Softdisk) [G] Hovertank One (1991, PC, id/Softdisk) [G] Rescue Rover! (1991, PC, id/Softdisk) [G] Keen Dreams (1991, PC, id/Softdisk) [G] Rescue Rover II: Return of the Robots (1991, PC, id/Softdisk) [G] Commander Keen: Secret of the Oracle (1991, PC, id/Apogee) [G] Commander Keen: The Armageddon Machine (1991, PC, id/Apogee) [G] Commander Keen: Aliens Ate My Baby Sitter (1991, PC, id/Apogee) [G] Catacomb 3-D (1991, PC, id/Softdisk) [G] Wolfenstein 3-D (1992, many, id/Apogee) [G] Spear of Destiny (1992, PC, id/Apogee) *[G] DOOM (1993, many, id) [G] DOOM II (1994, PC/MAC, id) [G] Heretic (1994, PC, Raven/id) [G] The Ultimate DOOM (1995, PC/MAC, id) [G] Hexen (1995, many, Raven/id) *[G] Quake (1996, PC, id) [D] Daikatana (2000, PC, Ion Storm/Eidos) [G] Anachronox (2001, PC, Ion Storm) [P] Hyperspace Delivery Boy! (2001, PPC, Monkeystone Games) There's no question that the whole Daikatana thing was a fiasco, and I wouldn't hire Romero to manage a company, certainly, but the guy HAS made a lot of games, and many of them are quite good.
God, there should be plenty of them. I'm setting the over at 45 posts.
Who wants a piece?
(Why would they put his name on the site ?!?)
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
Levelord...the same guy who has a picture of a dog humping another dogs head as the lead story on his website...teaching, playing dean, acting as a provost, whatever he is planning on doing, is obviously the best candidate for a Methodist University position.
Does anyone know of a good tutorial for programming GeForce class cards at a low level? I allready know basic X86 Assembler
in that capacity that has influenced my opinion.
KFG
Don't let the name "guild" for a union turn you off. Movie actors belong to the Screen Actors Guild.
Will I retire or break 10K?
My only worry is that we're going to be swamped in about 5 years, with games released by a group of friends all taking the above mentioned courses, who think their 'game' is good enough to be released. I've seen CS student games....they're wrong. So very wrong.
Defender of Microsoft and Communism!!!
From what I understand being an engineer in the gaming industry is a difficult job. It is very competitive, there is little job security, and engineers are over worked. Anyone with experience feel free to comment?
The one that put a giant penis looking structure in Sin, well this must be one interesting school to attend.
Game Design is only listed as a *part* of one course in the 'Game Study' class. Given the amount of high crappy-game-to-code ratio that most games have, that should be the main path.
As a CS major (junior-level) at one of the top CS schools in the US (#11, last I checked), I honestly have to wonder what they're going to teach at that course that I couldn't get from a few books and a generalized CS degree. The coursework itself will be useful, but the question is, do the benefits outweigh the costs?
And, moving on, I teach myself lots of things in the programming field. I resent the idea that people somehow think I'm "dumb and don't understand the real world" because I'm smart enough to realize that guidance in learning is a good thing. It seems to be a fairly common opinion on Slashdot that kids in college are mechanical robots who can only do what teacher's taught them. I don't confuse this with knowing everything - but I have confidence that I'm smart enough to learn.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Let me preface my comments by stating that I worked in the computer gaming industry for several years. During my years in the gaming industry, I have worked on titles for PSX and Windows, and also worked on what was probably the earliest commercially available full 3D game engine for massive multiplayer online games - and this was back in 95 before such things became commonplace. So while you may not agree with my comments, they are not without foundation and experience.
Look at the cost.
For a time commitment of 18 months, you will find yourself $37,000 in the debt. After which time you will hold a 'certificate' that only qualifies you to work in a single industry. Since this is not a degree, but merely a certificate (what is a MSCE certificate worth?), you won't have much to fall back on if the game career doesn't work out.
Look at what you get.
You get a 'fully loaded computer' for an extra fee of $5000. A great deal of the cost is probably software, but you can build a phenominal computer for less that $2000, and since they are probably getting the software at educational discounts, even if they are installing SoftImage, Maya, 3DSMax, Photoshop, and Lightwave for artists. The software required for programmers is probably less. A copy of Visual Studio for Windows since they will probably teach game programming for DirectX. As a student at about any university, you could get the stuff for less.
Who is doing the teaching?
It is not really clear, but from the endorsements of the industry leaders who say such things as " I can't wait to teach at The Guildhall", it seems to infer that the people listed on the sight might be doing the teaching. If this is the case, then consider
John Romero - did level design at id and thought he was God. Part of the braintrust at ION Storm (along with Todd Porter and Tom Hall ) that blew through over $30 million of Eidos' money with only Daikatana and Anachronox to show for it. Not the model of success that you want to emulate.
Kill Creek - aka Stevie Case. Claim to fame was beating John Romero in Quake, getting the opportunity to yell "Suck it down, bitch" back to John Romero, posing nude for Playboy, and marrying John Romero.
Tom Hall - okay, Tom has a decent rap sheet with Anachronox, Rise of the Triad, Terminal Velocity and a lot of earlier stuff that was very pretty good at the time.
What does this certificate qualify you for?
Working in the game industry, which by the way, pays very poorly. Game companies staff the production teams with one or two senior members who actually earn a real salary, and then staff the rest with kids fresh out of school who will work the typical 70 hour weeks for peanuts and not complain because the job is cool. While this is exceptional fun while you are young, if you ever decide to settle down, get married, have kids or buy a house, you will find yourself looking in a different industry for work. However, game programming skills, if you have a rock solid education and phenominal math and programming skills, can get you hired writing simulators for military contractors. Trust me, though, you won't be learning what you need for these types of jobs in 18 months.
If you decide to leave the gaming industry, you won't be qualified to work in any other field. This game programming certificate is probably even worse than the Devry/ITT schools that convince people that they will make lots of money with a two year tech degree.
My personal experience is that most of the programmers who do well in the gaming industry have degrees in Computer Science with a strong math and physics background, or a physics degree with a strong programming and math background. You can't really try to shortcut the process down to 18 months and expect to have the qualifications that employers are looking for.
My own $0.02 so you don't waste $37,000.
"Microsoft has made computing accessible to a population who would otherwise not be able to use computers" - B. Kernigha
Lulea University of Technology has had this for over a year (or is it two?) now..
BSc in Computer Graphics (CG), 180 ECTS and BSc in Gaming Studies (GS), 180 ECTS, both aimed at development of computer games...
g.s.C.E.P.T @ LTU
Scroll down to "An Insider's Report" at the bottom:
http://www.bunnyears.net/tattoo
A good read...
At least that's what, as far as I understand, game-testers (and QA people?) do. From what I've heard, being a programmer is both more interesting and financially rewarding, so I don't know why you'd love doing that.
there were gaming jobs who are interested in those candidates.
As it stands, the industry ain't doing that good. Nowadays you either need to know someone, or have already shipped a game.
Several people have already pointed out the folly of a $37k certificate, so I won't belabor the point further, as this would be redundant and unecessarily repetitive. As a lead programmer, I vividly remember sorting through 4-5 dozen resumes, among which the best game demo was a "Frogger" clone. We published two fairly popular PC games with local tech school "grads" and converted IT programmers. I don't know how the "big guys" think, but I think a working demonstration of a good, original game idea would stand out from the crowd a lot more than a dubious certification---especially since you have to work for a year before they let you touch anything 3D.
"Cat got your tongue? (something important seems to be missing from your comment ... like the body or the subject!)"
Stupid slashdot.
Finally a program designed and taught by real gaming pros!
Recently the world has been flooded with so called gaming programs that are taught by wannabes. It's about time that real game developers create a real gaming school! With the long list of names behind this "guildhall" it looks like the real deal is here!
The profit margin for a typical game is ridiculous. Back in the nintendo days with the 8-bit cartridges it costed $2 to $8 to create a game. That title easily sold for $50.
Today the profit margin is even greater. Goodness, we got CDRs duplicating and DVD writers. No real assembly lines are needed for the assembly of a cartridge. Titles are still on sale for $50 given a 50 cents cost in a CD media.
The industry needs to stop slaving the programmers. Software in general has a ridiculous margin over hardware. If you want to be business oriented about it, software has the most ridiculous profit margin. A typical gas station makes pennies per gallon of gas sold to your car.
Especially open source game development, and especially online games.
I wrote a MUD from scratch about 4 years ago, i'd be constantly harassed by players whenever I was on to let them code.
Back in the dark ages, I wrote my own BBS doors for my BBS. Now that, that was actually fun. Great feeling of accomplishment.
Now all traces are gone of wanting to do it as any of the following: a hobby, a way to make a living, or a startup.
I'll stick to things that have a point in the real world, rather than making my own worlds. It's just much more satisfying to be able to see a physical manifestation of your code.
A phone ringing (my job), a perfectly working driver powering a security system of your own design (after I got robbed).
Open the opportunity (Score:4, Insightful)
by karmawarrior (311177) on Tuesday December 10, @12:40PM (#4855394)
It seems ironic that at the very time there is clearly an abundance of bandwidth, the very companies that could be supplying this are instead locking down their resources - putting caps on cable modem and DSL usage, charging by the byte, putting up rates to lock businesses out of higher quality high-QoS high bandwidth services, closing the door on Internet telephony, and generally doing what they can to ration bandwidth as if there is a serious shortfall.
[...]
You can help by getting off your rear and writing to your congressman [house.gov] or senator [senate.gov]. Tell them that you're concerned about the clampdown on bandwidth use that's happening at a time when there is clearly a bandwidth glut. Tell them you appreciate the efforts of telecommunication companies to open up bandwidth in this area, but that in the absense of unlocked resources and free (as in speech) use of what's available, you will have to find less secure and intelligently designed alternatives to the Internet. Let them know that SMP may make or break whether you can efficiently deploy OpenBSD on your workstations and servers. Explain the concerns you have about freedom, openness, and choice, and how arbitrary caps and per-byte charges destroys all three. Let them know that this is an issue that effects YOU directly, that YOU vote, and that your vote will be influenced, indeed dependent, on his or her policy on opening up bandwidth.
You CAN make a difference. Don't treat voting as a right, treat it as a duty. Keep informed, keep your political representatives informed on how you feel. And, most importantly of all, vote.
maybe if u got off ur fat slashdot argumentative shithead azz and lurned how 2 kizz a girl ur life wud have meaning u faggots
whatever you never wrote a mud that's hard shit and you're not smart enough you queefer
The university of Abertay in Dundee, Scotland has been running a game design/coding degree for a few years now.
Ditto for abbreviating nationalities - why is Paki an insult for a Pakistani but Aussie or Brit is not an insult?
For real insults, I find "faggot" to be bad (i.e. meaning that which is to be burned at the stake) though shirt-lifter for example can be quite descriptive (well after I've had a few drinks) as are colloquialisms for various nationalities according to what food they traditionally prefer to eat.
I think it's worth noting that the DigiPen Institute of Technology was the original video game programming school. They have been around since the mid 90ies.
The school is on the Nintendo of America corporate campus in Redmond, WA.
The best teachers I have ever had were at DigiPen. (Dr. Jahn, Claude Comair, many others...)
If you are interested in a video game programming school, I highly recomend checking out DigiPen.
— darco
that offer an accredited CS degree you can usually maintain a focus or concentration in different areas within CS, and usually 3D graphics is one of those concentrations.
SIGFAULT
I suggest you also check the qualifications of these so-called names.
I hate those fucking clown homos. Dress up in fucking makeup yeah why dont you just shove a dildo up yer ass. fags
Is f0cked! With probably the biggest concentration of fresh off the boat H1-B visa folks plus TWO of the local colleges cranking out half-asses graduates like no tomorrow (I have interviewed some - e.g. Q:"give me four data types in C++" A:"uh, int, float, uh, uh, ..."), the market is sooooo flooded with programmers that you could prolly get loads them for like 40k a year. Its a sad state, and it ain't gonna recover.
as is the case with your linked post, since it was never moderated in the first place. Most of the time I get modded down it's because I've made a legitimate *answer* to a post like this, and get modded down as Offtopic, sometimes even though the original might have been modded *up.*
Of course, our entire converse here is legitimately Offtopic because it's a meta-subject, which aren't recognized as "legit", at least by most modders.
It's a funny Slashdot world, ain't it?
The best you can do is use your frail and fallable human judgment and hope it all comes out in the wash, which *is* the actual design intent.
KFG
Digipen was looking good to me but now I think I'd rather study with the likes of Levelord and Randy Pitchford.
Yeah, I'll vouch for that. I go to Baylor, and SMU girls drive their beemer that daddy bought for them to the club with the easiest access to drugs. Easy to pick up, cute as hell, but a bitch when it comes to maintanence...
My choice for an education at this point and time is as follows: A) Go to one of the thousands of Comp Sci programs and be bored by academics going on about useless theory. Only to get out and be told by gaming employers that I wasn't taught the correct information. B) Go to Digipen or Fullsail and learn game programing from professional teachers. C) Stay in my parents basement and bitch about how everything is crap. Or Maybe: D) This program (taught people who's games I love) will teach me usefull information? I don't know if this is the case? Only time will tell. I'm just saying it seems like the best choice so far. And I wish Levelord and the others well!
Hey I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend this Prof. I'm sure he's a wonderfull guy. It's just given a choice between studying with an academic ans learning to make games with people who really do that ...I'd rather learn from those that have real experience.