Palm PDA Roundup

Melvin writes "Hardware Extreme has a roundup featuring some of the top PalmOS based PDAs in the market (and a few coming out in the 2nd and 3rd Quarter). Being a geek's gadget, :) I would recommend you guys to check out this roundup if you are planning to get a new Palm PDA."

Comments

Just avoid the SPH I300

[Ponty]

See subject.

A bit off topic, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anybody know when the Zaurus 5600 is coming out?

Palm Tungsten

[adoll]

Check out my journal entry on my Tungsten. Love the little guy, but not for doing addresses and timekeeping. I read newspapers, listen to OGG files and flip through databases at work.

-AD

Re:Palm Tungsten

[queenb**ch]

Too bad that basic services like SSH and WINE/Terminal Services don't run under Palm.

I use my handheld to provide freedom of movement when I am on call. In order for me to administer my mixed environment of 500+ Windows boxes, 200+ Unix boxes, assorted network gear and other attendant devices, I need to be able to access both. Too bad that the ONLY handheld that currently meets my requirements without hours and hours of hacking runs a MS OS.

Re:Palm Tungsten

[hal-j]

SSH client (SSH v1 only, unfortunatly): Top Gun SSH

There's no terminal services client that I know of, but there *is* a VNC client

Re:Palm Tungsten

[kisrael]

Check out my journal entry on my Tungsten. Love the little guy, but not for doing addresses and timekeeping. I read newspapers, listen to OGG files and flip through databases at work.

Uh, do ever bother to explain why not for doing addresses and timekeeping? Palms have done an admirable job of that for me for 6 years now; every once in a while it's a kick to know what i was doing on this day 5 years ago. (Though admittedly my addressbook is getting a little full of obsolete entries...)

The only reason I could think of not to use Palm for that is if you were already using something that didn't have an easy way to synch with it.

Re:Palm Tungsten

[biglig2]

And of course your can VNC to your workstation and from there run any remote admin tools you want.

I guess an RDP (i.e. Terminal server) client is about possible, since the protocol is open and there is already an open source Linux client; anyone fancy the challenge? ;-)

Re:Palm Tungsten

[adoll]

Uh, do ever bother to explain why not for doing addresses and timekeeping? Palms have done an admirable job of that for me for 6 years now

No problem, I'm glad you use it for that. My work doesn't require diligent timekeeping and my addresses are sitting in a stack of business cards (in dead tree format).

Most people automatically assume that Palms are ONLY useful for timekeeping. The Tungsten does much more and that was the point of my article.

-AD

Re:Palm Tungsten

[kisrael]

No problem, I'm glad you use it for that. My work doesn't require diligent timekeeping and my addresses are sitting in a stack of business cards (in dead tree format).

Most people automatically assume that Palms are ONLY useful for timekeeping. The Tungsten does much more and that was the point of my article.

Ah...I think the phrasing you use make it sound like Palm is somehow not up to your timekeeping and addressbook needs.

Actually, the addressbook function gets used less and less for me...e-mail addresses are kept in Pine, phone numbers are more often called in my cellphone, so it's just the odd phone (from home) lookup that hasn't yet migrated.

Unless it's a strictly "business only" palm, or you have a very vacant social schedule, I'm surprised you don't find datebook intermitently useful. Of you have a great mind for dates.

I've written some useful apps in PocketC for Palm, a vaguely javascript-y (in being a fellow C-deriviative language) language that you can edit compile and run as byte code all on the Palm. Most recently a darts match results recorder, and I can then dump the results into a webapp for online recordkeeping.

ThinkDB is a very useful app, inspired me to make an online version. Basically, you can define simple one table db's and the forms to enter and edit data in.

Review? Round-up? Where?

[tghost]

Apparently, nowadays printing the back of the box where the specs are gleefully bullet pointed counts as a review.

Re:Review? Round-up? Where?

[wavedeform]

And they didn't even do a good job of that. In the Treo "review" they say:

"The Treo 180 have all the Treo 270 features except without a color screen. The black and white screen will greatly increase your battery's life if you frequently use your phone."

Even ignoring typos, this is just plain wrong. The color 270 gets significantly better battery life than the B&W 180.

Sigh.

Re:Review? Round-up? Where?

[Yo Grark]

Couldn't agree more.

I am in the market to buy a new Palm/PocketPC and was looking forward to this article.

Not one pro/con, not one REAL THOUGHT.

That ranks right up there with the recent journalism though, so all in all I'm not surprised.

Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering

Re:Review? Round-up? Where?

[arth33]

I completely agree. I read this expecting that they would have used the PDA's and written some summary of their comparative strengths and weaknesses. Instead it reiterating the press releases for each model, and offering to compare the prices for the readers convenience. Here's a sample of the quality research you find:

[snipped from the SJ33 'review'] The PEG-SJ20 CLIÉ(TM) handheld is the older version of PEG-SJ33 which is very affordable if you do not need a color screen. The battery life is long and the high-resolution color screen shows images and documents in fine detail. [My Emph]

For the record, the SJ20 is monochrome.

Re:Review? Round-up? Where?

[Greedo]

Well look at the URL of the article's poster. This "news" item was brought to you (and probably paid for) by HWExtreme.

Re:Review? Round-up? Where?

[Anonymous Coward]

They probably didn't even tried the products. They just copy what the manufacturer tell them, even if it contradicts the real-world use of the product (rule of marketing: if your product have a flaw, then put it as a plus in the bullet points).

I actually own a Treo 90. They says: " All built-in applications have been optimized for thumb keyboard navigation so now it's just as easy to get to where you need to go"

This is a joke. You have to use *two buttons* and open the keyboard cover to go home (there is not home button). You need the pen to press 'OK' in the dialog that appear when you unlock the device (nothing work before you press that button). There is not keyboard shortcut for that. The screen is under the cover, so it is even worse than it seem (press power for two seconds. extract pen. open cover. press OK. close cover. place pen back. press 'Date Book' button. All this instead a 'press power for two seconds , press date book button' of normal Palm PDas.)

There is no keyboard shortcut to move the input cursor of more than one character. This render complex editing almost impossible.

Keyboard shortcuts (when present) are incoherent between built-in applications (Menu-J to 'J'oin note in the tasks, but unfortunately, Menu-J make a 'J'ournal entry in the date book, where you have to 'A'dd note.).

Calling the Treo 'optimized for thumb keyboard navigation' is a marketing joke. Seeing that in a PDA Roundup tells you a lot about the integrity of those guys.

Cheers,

--fred

PS: btw, the treo is a fine device. But they obviously forgot to finish it, as with much of the software products those days...

Re:Review? Round-up? Where?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had my Visor for more than two years now and recently wrote a retrospective with the intent of outlining my top-10 requirements for a replacement PDA: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/visor/retrospective. html

Re:Review? Round-up? Where?

[Evro]

Apparently, nowadays printing the back of the box where the specs are gleefully bullet pointed counts as a review.

The submitter's name links to the site as well, which usually implies that the guy runs the site. So basically this is a guy writing a pseudo article and submitting it to Slashdot as a way to drive tons of traffic to his site to drive up ad revenue. This is an increasing trend - new sites writing up a shitty bunch of text and using Slashdot as their PR center. Sometimes I wonder if these are really just paid Slashvertisements for the sites in question.

Re:Review? Round-up? Where?

[Evro]

Just as a follow-up to my previous post, this is from their "about us" page:

The Team

Kelvin Tong - Webmaster, Editor

Melvin Tong - Editor

Ken Wong - Contributing Editor

Edward Chang - Contributing Editor

So yeah, this is just a guy using Slashdot as his personal PR machine.

Palm is a sinking ship

[evil-empir3]

Honestly, I don't understand that Palm is still newsworthy. They created some innovative PDAs, but they are about to be gobbled up by all of the PocketPC vendors. The inertia is going to be too much to overcome, especially with Dell now offering a very affordable ($199) PDA that runs circles around anything similarly priced by Palm.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[iCEBaLM]

Slashdot readers like myself may not like Palm PDA's because they don't cram a whole lot of whiz-bang features into the PDA's, they aren't laptop replacements in your hand, but that's NOT what Palm is gunning for. They're electronic organizers made for business professionals, and at this they excel. They are better at this job than PocketPCs. They are simple, elegant and trustworthy. You normally do not have to reset a Palm handheld 5 times a day like you do with a PocketPC unless something is horribly wrong with it or an application you have on it was coded by a 3 year old monkey.

Palm is not a sinking ship, they just don't target you as a user.

-- iCEBaLM

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[frdmfghtr]

Amen to that!

I have had several Palm units: PalmPilot Pro, IIIe, VIIx and i705. When Palm.Net plan changes would have put my monthly bill over $80, I canceled the account on the spot, since wireless access wasn't worth that much every month to me.

I bought a Toshiba e335, and tried it out for about three weeks. In that time:

(1) The alarm light never worked properly,
(2) The battery indicator would jump around from time to time,
(3) ActiveSync would drop out spontaneously, sometimes during a sync operation,
(4) The Transcriber, while a great idea, was awkward when entering appointments and tasks. I used the Block Recognizer (virtual Grafitti pad) more often, simply because it was one of the few thigns that worked reliably.

The OS got in the way of the things I needed to do. Thus, I reverted back to my i705, but haven't reactivated the service (yet). Simply put, the Palm just works. Plain and simple. The lower end units weren't designed to be used regularly to edit Word docs or Excel spreadshets--use your laptop to do that. Viewing them, I can understand, but not editing or creating new docs.

Is sound and color and hi-res graphics important? To some, yes--in that case go for a Sony or one of the Palms that will do such things. I for one don't plan on making a full-color presentation using my PDA--again, that is is what the laptop is for.

All in all, it really does matter what your target customer is. For me, the PocketPC was way too buggy and clumsy. The Palm interface does what I need it to do, cleanly and simply.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[waytoomuchcoffee]

I own both a Handera (Palm OS) and an IPAQ 1910. I do not have to reset the Ipaq 5x a day. (I did have to reset the Handera, however, every week or so, but that was OS4).

My company made a business decision on what to upgrade to. We really wanted to keep with the Palm OS, but there was no lightweight, OS 5, full screen versions out there. The Clie's are NOT made for business and are bricks, while the Palm T|T is not full screen (and is expensive).

We settled on the 1910 because of the form factor and very low weight (it's smaller than a Palm V). This is important, as if people can't stick it in their pocket they will not use them as often. They are also cheap; $300 retail, much less than the competing OS 5 models (with our business discount we got them for $264 each). Contrary to what I always thought when I used my Palm, Palms are NOT better at being an electronic organizer for business professionals. There are lots of little tricks you can do with the PPC that you can't do with a Palm -- if you move the left/right directional buttons in the Contact list for example, you can switch between different phone/fax numbers without going into the record itself. Pretty neat, and elegant.

It's a shame because I really loved my full-screen Handera. It's incredibly ironic that Palm users, after years of complaining that PPCs were heavy and were not "simplistic", are now buying up multimedia bricks like the Clies.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[ath0mic]

...or an application you have on it was coded by a 3 year old monkey
So that's why I can't find a job.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[Deslock]

I switched to the HP1910 PPC as the hardware (4.2 ounces, bright vibrant screen, removable battery, fast CPU, 64MB RAM) and low price (retails for $299 but I got it for $199) were too irresistible. However, if I could run PalmOS on this thing, I would. PPC is sluggish, installing apps is a pain, and ActiveSync is unreliable. That said, while I found my old Sony Clie was superior as a tool in many ways, my HP1910 is adequate and I'm having a lot more fun with it (playing games and viewing images and video is a better experience).

Given that PPCs like the HP1910 and Viewsonic V35 exist, I don't understand why Sony and Palm can't create a sub 5-ounce PalmOS5 device with virtual graffiti. If they don't, a lot of longtime Palm users like me will end up jumping ship.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[DataPath]

maybe you're referring to the NV series clies, I don't know. But my Clie T615C is lighter, smaller, more stylish, AND has more features than did the Palm m130 I had just before this. All for the same price. Honestly, I don't know WHY anyone would buy a Palm brand.

And as for stability, results may vary. I had to reset my Clie once. It was from installing new apps.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[UnixRevolution]

I am forced to disagree. Palm's machines, either by OS or by the system itself, are little more than the cheap $30 databanks you see in the stationary section of a store compared to a modern pocket PC. Every time someone refers to my Zaurus SL-5500 as a "Palm Pilot" i cringe and tell them to renounce their blasphemy. The Zaurus's organizer's functions are excellent, and i cannot imagine them being any better. The input ease from the slide-away KB or onscreen KB is excellent, and i have no complaints. It's powerful, and flexible. I could code and compile C programs, write HTML pages, or do any number of things on it if i wanted to. I could even edit images! It's got internal storage to spare, and like Palm or Handspring, doesn't need sync software or proprietary memory to work. (indeed, i've had it for months and have never synched it with another system...i just transfer things via CF or the wireless eth card.) It may have been $400, but it's well worth it. It's a real computer, just like my compaq laptop, my dual Athlon 2100+ workstation, my suns, apples, SGI, and my other x86's. It runs real linux! This also helps it cope with the instability problem the previous author was talking about. I've never had to reset my zaurus, EVER. It's a delight, and superior in every way to any palm. Even its organizer functions are awesome, especially considering i never have to worry about synching it, and i can connect to the web with full color and view real web pages, chat on IRC, and even download files with Qtella. Zaurus, and other PocketPC's, particularly the Linux ones, are the best handhelds out there. Better than WinCE Ipaq/Journada/Axiom/Toshiba systems, better than Palm and Clie, just plain better. AND they fit nicely in your pocket, backpack, briefcase, or laptop tote.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[timeOday]

The problem is, Casio can make a simple, cheap organizer for $30.

I'm miffed at Palm because my m515 crashed yesterday and destroyed all my data. Besides feeling stupid and angry at myself for not making a backup recently, I'm irritated at Palm for not having a more robust OS. People shouldn't have to implement "hacks" that threaten system stability just to make an app switcher or graffiti-area keyboard.

I'm all for a simple, elegant interface, but there should still be solid software engineering underneath.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[waytoomuchcoffee]

THe T615C is not full screen. I don't care that it is higher res, after having full screen with my Handera I am not going back. Others in my office felt the same way.

Sony chose the route of multimedia brick for their full-screen models. It's not for business use.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[emarkp]

The sad thing is that Palm is dying because it's not innovating. All of the built-in apps are pretty much the same as they've always been. The price of the new PDAs is absurd while the new PDAs don't do much more than their predecessors.

The last straw for me was when Palm pretended they hadn't heard of the problem my IIIc had (and my coworker had the same problem, and so did my brother-in-law). When the brightness was appreciably above minimum, the digitizer was totally useless. I didn't really know how bad it was until I used TealEcho to see what the IIIc thought I was writing--it was horrible. Palm claimed that they'd never heard of the problem in spite of the links I provided to discussion boards in which several people claimed to have contacted Palm with the same problem.

Fool me once...

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[mobets]

Actualy, the problem is that palm is trying to compete with Pocket PC when they should really concentrate on compeating with the $30 Casio. &200- $300 for a palm these days is rediculus, but $100 for a super organizer would sell wonderfully.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[qmrq]

They're electronic organizers made for business professionals, and at this they excel.

I was 15 when I got my first PalmOS device. "Business professionals" are not the only ones who use them. ;)

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[jmauro]

You mean like this?. Just because there are high end palms, doesn't mean that there isn't simple low-cost ones as well. I remember when all Palms cost $300-$400 dollars. As a group they've all come down in price by a big margin.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[mobets]

No back light, no cradle, and 2MB memmory. My IIIxe from 3 years ago is much better. And when they were all 3-5 hundred, they were the best thing on the market.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[iCEBaLM]

The last straw for me was when Palm pretended they hadn't heard of the problem my IIIc had

This actually is not a known issue with the IIIc, just because some random people that you personally know have it doesn't make it widespread enough for palm to have known about it.

-- iCEBaLM

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[iCEBaLM]

That's not what I said now, was it? Reread my statement.

-- iCEBaLM

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[evil-empir3]

I disagree. The low-end business electronic organizers are nothing more than commodity today and there are a zillion vendors that offer more for less and on the high-end, PocketPCs are eating their lunch. That leaves everything in between and now that Dell has emerged in that area - it's over. I had three models of Palms before I just got tired of paying premium prices for PDAs that were rapidly falling behind the industry in terms of innovation and charging pocket computer prices. It's the classic case of market leader complacency. BTW, my Palms crashed on occasion, too. And my iPAQ crashes with equal or less frequency. "5 resets a day" (?)Um, right...

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[erc]

Only for the moment, until people realize that they have to recharge their PPC every day, the PPC is signifigantly heaver and larger then the Palm platform, and Windows CE crashes significantly more often than PalmOS. I've got both - an iPAQ 3760 and a Palm III. I used the iPAQ for a while, then went back to the Palm. I can't surf the web or read my email in realtime on the Palm, but my Palm lasts for weeks on a set of batteries and I don't have to reboot the thing on the average of twice a day like the PPC.

I'm looking forward to moving to a Handspring this year, just to get 802.11b connectivity. Anyone want a used iPAQ with the expansion sleeve .. cheap?

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[kisrael]

The backlight is a notble lack. Cradle, eh. And for the marktet they're targetting, 2MB is plenty. 1 MB lasted me a long time, in fact, with a fairshare of apps as well as data.

I think one of the reason it sells so well is the packaging. The plastic see through case for hanging makes people think they're getting something more like a walkman than an expenseive piece of equipment, and Palm has always been friendly enough to cater to this same crowd.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[iCEBaLM]

I own an iPaq H3870 and I have used many palms. The ipaq is great for what I use it for: mp3/ogg listening, book reading (for which I use the Palm Reader even because the MS Reader is crap!), game playing, bluetooth to the internet. Re: laptop replacement.

As for information management it's not as good as a Palm PDA - plain and simple. Activesync is horrible, you DO have to reset it constantly, you DO have to recharge it *every day*, it's bigger than the biggest Palm handheld, the PPC OS gets in the way a lot, etc.

Like I said, you and I would rather laptop replacements, but WE ARE NOT PALMS TARGET MARKET. Just because you don't use something does not make it a sinking ship.

-- iCEBaLM

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[qmrq]

You did imply it though ; P

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[emarkp]

The comments I saw on a discussion forum were in the context of considering a class action lawsuit against Palm for this problem--this after the deceptive advertising for the # of colors on one of the devices etc. When everyone I knew had the same problem with the IIIc (all purchased from different sources), I see it as more telling than mere anecdote.

In fact, when my colleague and I sent in for replacements, we both received units which had the same problem. It took Palm three tries to get my coworker a working IIIc, and two tries to get me one.

Color me unimpressed that they claimed it wasn't a "known problem." You'd think they could have at least checked the replacement units for the exact problem we reported.

How do you know it wasn't a known issue? Did you work for Palm?

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot. Palm devices vs PocketPC devices is like a comparison to a dog, and a dog with bricks tied to it's head. Palm makes the best PDA OS available IMHO. Why? Because it does the basics. Addresses. Memos. Reminders. That's it. If I wanted to watch TV on my fucking Palm Pilot, I'd want to watch it on a laptop at least.

Troll.

Re:Palm is a sinking ship

[znaps]

If you can't imaging the Zaurus' organizer functions being any better, then you must have the imagination of a brick...

Donald Knuth Is My Cousin

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

From the Sony PEG-SJ33 CLIÉ(TM) special features list: "Battery Life"

Wow, this PDA comes with battery life? Wow! I need one of these! I've been running around with a PDA that has batteries but no life! I always thought to myself, "You know, some life would be great for these batteries but, no, I dream too large."

(Mods, this isn't a troll - Check the review - they actually have "battery life" listed as a special feature.

Re:Donald Knuth Is My Cousin

[bogie]

They also list the Palm i705 for $89 and say stupid things like "Loaded with 16 MB of memory". I realize it wasn't intended to be a full review, but the entire aritcle reeks of a half hour cut and paste job. I mean really did a robot do this or what?

From the Palm Zire part "Replace bulky paper planners, to-do lists and sticky notes with a convenient" etc etc. Me right clicks does web search for this phrase....197 hits on Google.

Like I said lame cut-n-paste job and not worth a /. submission.

Only info I could find...

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything else is jut press releases...

The SL-5600, SL-B500, and SL-C700 will be avaiable Quarter 1 of 2003. Prices have not been set, but the SL-5600 is expected to retail in the $500-$600 range.

http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2593.html

Gadget?

[cybermace5]

"Being a geek's gadget, :) I would recommend you guys to check out this roundup if you are planning to get a new Palm PDA."

This is a first ever: a Slashdot submission from the PDA itself! Now when did they become sentient....

Re:Gadget?

[Anonymous Coward]

What? It's not like it's hard for a computer to choose randomly between:

"In Soviet Russia..."

"Imagine a beowulf cluster of..."

"Does it run Linux?"

"How long until someone puts Linux on one of these little buggers?"

"1. Make Product.
2. Market
3. ???
4. Profit!!!!!!!"

"Think of how much pr0n that could hold!"

and

"Dupe! Dupe!!! I've heard about this "computer thing" before!! DUPPPPPEEEEE!!!!!!!!"

Re:Gadget?

[fiftyfly]

"Being a geek's gadget, :) I would recommend you guys to check out this roundup if you are planning to get a new Palm PDA."

This is a first ever: a Slashdot submission from the PDA itself! Now when did they become sentient....

meh - who ever said you had to be sentient to post on /.?

Re:Gadget?

[burns210]

"Now when did they become sentient...."

Shortly after ALICE was ported to the palm and the pocket PC systems, respectively. :)

Re:Gadget?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the reviewer meant he was a geeks gadget, a boy toy if you will.

Which one?

[dolo666]

Which type of palm was that guy using? I want one of those! :)

As C.B.G. would say..

[Anonymous Coward]

Worst. Review. Ever.

C'mon Apple!

[Snagle]

I Want My iPDA !!!

Re:C'mon Apple!

[jmays]

Wait ... I thought Apple was going out of business! ;)

Re:C'mon Apple!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't count on it anytime soon. Apple is on very shakey ground financially. Frankly, many prominent industry analysts have crunched the numbers, concluding that that Apple's outlook is bleak indeed.

In Apple's latest numbers released in January for its fiscal first quarter of 2003, revenue fell from a year earlier and all of the company's major computer lines saw diminished numbers. PowerMac sales were down 20%, while iBook sales fell 8%.

At the same time Apple's sales were falling, PC sales rose, though just slightly, according to figures from IDC released last month.

The last time Apple was in this state, it brought back co-founder Steve Jobs to fix its issues. He fostered the development of the iMac and secured a US$150-million investment from Microsoft. But there aren't any new iMacs in Apple's future and Microsoft, bolstered by its victory over the U.S. Department of Justice, is clearly not going to help the beleaguered computer maker this time.

So what have you got left? Apple is a company that controls around 3% of the computer market, has recently undergone a restructuring and is slowly fading into nothingness. Software makers don't even have Mac users on their radar and it's not like Apple can bring Mr. Jobs back to right the ship this time -- he's already there.

Stick a fork in 'em -- this Apple is cooked.

Roundup?

[t0ny]

I wouldnt call it a roundup. Looks more like a review of all the available product liturature in one convenient place.

More of an advertising spot than a review; I was hoping for comparisons and criticisms on the different models.

Which one will play Quake 3?

Re:Roundup?

[pongo000]

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who thought the same...every one of the PDAs had a glowing review. From the About Us link:

Hardware Extreme is dedicated to bringing it's readers the most comprehensive reviews available. If you have a product you'd like us to review please e-mail us. We will guarantee that the review will receive at least 50,000 page views within a few days after it has been posted.

Getting /.ed is certainly one way to ensure 50,000 hits. This isn't a "news for nerds" item, it's a shameless plug.

Content Free Article?

[crawling_chaos]

Was it just me, or did this roundup look suspiciously like a "cut and paste the press releases and call it an article" job? There was no insight as to which device would be better for particular tasks, just breathless discussions of each device that read as if they'd come straight from the manufacturer's PR flacks.

Is this normal for this site? If so, I don't think that I'll be reading any more articles that they "write."

Re:Content Free Article?

[fnurgel]

Actually if you go to their showcase nr 8 they wrote this:

Please note that the texts and pictures are copied from the manufacturers websites / any other source. A link below every gadget is directed to the site we get the information. We do not get these cool gadgets for review purposes, although we would love to play with any of them.

They should put the same notice on the rest of them I suppose.

Re:Content Free Article?

[crawling_chaos]

Well, if that is how they do showcases, I see no need to visit them again. I can read manufacturer's websites on my own. I don't need to give ad impressions to a site that does a google search, cuts and pastes, and then posts the link to /.

i705?

[lpret]

What the hell is the i705 doing on that list?
I treat it much lower than the Palm Vx which is the epitome of a sexy PDA. The i705 is perhaps the worst PDA ever put out by Palm in that it does nothing except extend the life of Palm.net or whatever they called it. Even the Palm VIIx was more groundbreaking than the i705.

I do have to say that after moving from Palm to Pocket PC, the thing I miss the most is a decent battery life. My Toshiba e740 gets about 3 hours, while my Vx got about 2 weeks.

Re:i705?

[Cinematique]

Hey, I have an i705 with palm.net and I love it... you insensitive clod!

I wanted it all

[Amsterdam Vallon]

SoInsteadOfJustBuyingSomeStand-alonePDA,IDecidedTo PurchaseOneOfThose Treo300 Gadgets.
It'sAPCSPhone+OrganizerInOne,AndCanDoUnl imitedData Transfer(Web+Email)For10DollarsAMonth.
FreeBloggingForLife

Crap

[Amsterdam Vallon]

Now all I need to do is fix my damn spacebar!

Luvin' my TT...

[terraformer]

...except for the crappy I/O on the SD card interface (not sure if that is due to the card/design/etc) and the lack of good case choices. Lots o' power with that OMAP1510 though. I run mapping software and it runs well, at least from the builtin memory ;-(

Sharp Zaurus

[SHEENmaster]

Does all that, with a kickass k/b. I can't imagine using PalmOS with graffitti and all that bs.

For those that are wondering, yes the Zaurus runs real Linux. Yes, Debian has been ported. Yes, a better pda environment than sharp's is under development. Yes, having a wifi CF card and a 256mb SD card is the high life. Yes you can connect that that serial terminal or k/b up.

Re:Sharp Zaurus

[Anonymous Coward]

Zauruses are huge. The hardware's nice, but they're just too damn big. Same goes for most WinCE devices too.

Re:Sharp Zaurus

[UnixRevolution]

This man speaks the truth!

My Zaurus has a command line, can play mp3, OGG and Mpeg movies, has Quake, a bunch of other cool games, word proc, spreadsheet, file manager, unit calc, rdate, and even GCC...

it's a GNU/Linux box in your pocket.

And it is the high life.

Re:Sharp Zaurus

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Take a look at the new Ipaq - smaller than the Palm V.

Re:Sharp Zaurus

[mildness]

My Treo 90 has a keyboard every bit as good as my Zaurus and I don't have to hack the damn thing to get otherwise off the shelf apps to work.

Anyone want to buy a Zaurus?

Bill

Re:Sharp Zaurus

[Hanno]

I own a PalmOS PDA and a Zaurus.

Yes, I'm a geek and I love techno toys. But I beg to differ: The Zaurus is not a good PDA.

In addition to my earlier rant:

My Palm PDA runs on one set of rechargeable batteries for two or three weeks. My Zaurus runs two or three days. Even if I'm away and can't recharge the Palm's batteries, I can get standard AAA batteries anywhere. The Zaurus battery is too small and it's a proprietary format, so I always have to bring the AC adapter.

Granted, there are Palm PDAs with proprietary batteries, as well. But I see the limited battery lifetime and the price tag of replacement batteries as two of the major minuses of the Zaurus.

I can't imagine using PalmOS with graffitti and all that bs

Yes, you obviously can't since you never did. The Palm's applications do their job and that's it - and that's all I want from a PDA.

Graffiti is a blessing. It works and I learned it within minutes, while the Zaurus' joke of a handwriting recognition software still doesn't recognize my handwriting, despite using about two hours of training on it, after which I gave up.

You're right, though, the Zaurus keyboard is great. But I would love to see Graffiti or something similar on it. Yes, you can teach the Zaurus different strokes and there is a software package with the Graffiti strokes, but it just plain and simply doesn't work as good as the PalmOS PDAs.

Considering the fact that the Zaurus CPU is more powerful than the one used in the older Palms, I'm sure that better recognition could be possible. But there just isn't anything in it now.

yes the Zaurus runs real Linux. Yes, Debian [debian.org] has been ported. Yes, a better pda environment [openzaurus.org] than sharp's is under development.

The Zaurus' Linux environment is neat, but in daily use, the PalmOS standard software is way more productive for me. The Qtopia apps aren't as well thought out. I personally don't mind, but the Palm PDAs are easy to understand and easy to use for everyone (including my Mom), while the Zaurus is a techno toy that also includes a mediocre calendar and addressbook software.

It's nice to write software for the Zaurus, though, much nicer than for PalmOS, since there are so many alternatives to choose from in the Linux world. Yet it's kind of sad that the Linux sync support of the Zaurus is so bad and kernel driver needed for the desktop side still crashes the PC every now and then.

Yes, having a wifi CF card and a 256mb SD card is the high life.

If you can afford them and can live with the limited battery lifetime of your PDA as a consequence.

Yes you can connect that that serial terminal or k/b up.

Show me a decent serial keyboard that's not sold for a ridiculously high price tag. Also, the cable needed to connect a serial keyboard is sold at 40$ and above.

So add the Zaurus, a CF wifi card, a 256 mb SD card, a serial keyboard and serial cable (or, alternatively, an IR keyboard) and you basically get an overpriced Microlaptop, but not a PDA.

I use the Palm for my daily calendar and address book. I use the Zaurus as a (great) techno toy and I sometimes wonder if I should have saved the money I spent on it.

Re:Sharp Zaurus

[thunker]

How is the battery life on your precious Zaurus?

Re:Sharp Zaurus

[rjch]

Does all that, with a kickass k/b. I can't imagine using PalmOS with graffitti and all that bs.

Try doing a hardware audit of your datacentre with one using graffiti. Even the inbuilt scanner in my PDA doesn't relieve the pain that much.

Re:Sharp Zaurus

[KillRaven]

So add the Zaurus, a CF wifi card, a 256 mb SD card, a serial keyboard and serial cable (or, alternatively, an IR keyboard) and you basically get an overpriced Microlaptop, but not a PDA.

I agree with everything you said, except I consider it a reasonably priced microlaptop, a job which it does very well. I agree that the palm is a better pure PDA, but the Zaurus is just so much more versitile.

Re:Sharp Zaurus

[somneo]

> Yes, having a wifi CF card and a 256mb SD card is the high life. If you can afford them and can live with the limited battery lifetime of your PDA as a consequence. Many CF cards have an appetite for power. But the secure digital card has a hardly noticible effect on battery life (even if mounted as the home and tmp directories!)

Nothing but a sales brochure

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a terrible "review." It's nothing more than marketing fluff reprinted. A complete waste of time.

SonyEricsson P800 or Palm Tungsten W?

[jonr]

My next "phone" will be either of those.
The P800 uses Symbian, an OS that really looks good on paper.
Palm:
+ 320x320 screen
+ PalmOS (familarity & apps)
+ Keyboard (emailing and bitching on /.)
+ MMS/SSD card
- Size
- Battery?
P800
+ Smaller, more phone-like
? 208x320 screen
- No keyboard
- Memory Stick
- No PalmOS (?)
- Price?

Re:SonyEricsson P800 or Palm Tungsten W?

[adoll]

I use the Palm T-T and can say I'm amazed at the battery life. I can listen to 3 hours of OGG music files, read 3 online newpapers and still have 50% of the battery life remaining. Battery isn't replaceable so you have charge the one that's onboard.

The keyboard wouldn't do it for me; I use little graffi typing and am usually reading or listening to downloaded content.

-AD

Dont get a Palm

[m4g02]

Didnt you read the last Linux Uprising article?, Linux is getting hot in the handhelds world and i belive GPE Palmtop (GPL license) will become its best UI in a few years.

Dont get stuck with an useless and outdated OS, meet the future and get a Zaurus (or wait for the IBM Linux handhelds).

Re:Dont get a Palm

[g4dget]

Dont get stuck with an useless and outdated OS, meet the future and get a Zaurus [sharp-usa.com] (or wait for the IBM Linux handhelds [geek.com]).

Huh? GPE runs on top of Linux, just like the Zaurus. The only difference is the window system.

Re:Dont get a Palm

[echucker]

Because it's not Linux, it's "useless and outdated"? Call it flamebait if you will, but just because it's Linux, doesn't mean it's the best thing since flush toilets, sliced bread, pop-top cans.

Re:Dont get a Palm

[biglig2]

Well, perhaps it is getting hot, but it isn't hot now. The Zarus is a nice machine, but if you look at PalmOS you have a much wider range of hardware, so you have a better chance of finding hardware that matches your needs - you can get a big fat Sony with every gadget imaginable, or a tiny little M500 that you can drop in your shirt pocket and forget it is there.

I'd say choosing an OS widely considered to be the best focussed at the PDA device market was a better choice than one that has been shoe-horned into a PDA size - of course this is mostly a criticism of PocketPC; Linux is good at fitting odd devices, but I'm not sure it's the best choice.

Re:Dont get a Palm

[stefanlasiewski]

will become its best UI in a few years

That may be true, but I'm looking for a PDA for less then $200 today, not in a few years.

Re:Dont get a Palm

[rSelrahc]

I got a Zaurus and it's a cute little device and great for some demos I have done. However, for pure usability, I am now on my third Palm-based device. Batteries last longer, sync works better, and it is more portable (I don't have one of the monstrous Sony...). I do like to hideaway keyboard on the Zaurus though...

Re:Dont get a Palm

[m4g02]

I think you are wrong, Zaurus runs Qtopia on top of Linux, if you install Linux by yourself in some odd handheld like an IPaq you would probably install Opie on top of Familiar Linux since Opie is very clean by now. GPE isnt there yet but is moving fast and its lincesed with our favorite viral license, GPL. =D

Opie, Qtopia and GPE are the KDE/Gnome of the handheld Linux world, its not only about the windows and graphics, you can build software with GPE API's that will need to be ported to other GUI in order to work just like happens with KDE and Gnome.

Get in line people!!!

[aSiTiC]

We all must become good little American consumers.

Glad to see Slashdot helping us.

I must be one of the first to own an SJ33....

[Viceice]

Anyway, the SJ33 does live up to it's claims. I've been playing MP3s on this baby with the screen ON, and 3 hours later i've only used up 20+% of the battery life.

The only thing i dislike about it is the really expensive Memory Stick. But then, which other company makes a Palm OS based PDA with an audio system that can stand up to the Clie's? It's basicly a Mem Stick Walkman seamlessly married into a PDA + extra.

You are my gadget. Question is: Which?

[The Ape With No Name]

Being a geek's gadget, :) I would recommend you guys to check out this roundup if you are planning to get a new Palm PDA.

Ah, the semiotics of the pocket protector. So which 'gadget' are you? A nerf gun? A USB storage pen? Or something sexy? Double-headed and runs on batteries?

Samsung SPH-i330

[ahrenritter]

I just recently purchased the Samsung SPH-i330 smart phone, and I have been very happy with it. It runs PalmOS 3.5.3 with 16mb of RAM. It has a virtual silkscreen, so you can do fun stuff similar to what you can do with a HandERA such as having a full keyboard (SilkyBoard). The only draw back to it is that it doesn't have an expansion slot. I did purchase the data cable and hooked it up with my Delorme Earthmate GPS and XMap® Handheld Street Atlas USA® Edition. It works quite nicely like this.

Ignorance

[M3wThr33]

How could they leave out one of the most important devices of this coming year?
I see other unreleased Palms on there, but where is the Kyocera 7135? It's been a documented fact that Smartphone sales have been down since the announcement of it back on June 24th, 2002. USA Today had an ad in it mentioning 47,000 people on the waiting list for it(Me being one of them). It's finally available in limited markets, but I find it appaling that they could ignore the smartest smartphone of them all.
Here is an avid collection of people dedicated to this pda.
How can you ignore it?

Re:Ignorance

[Anonymous Coward]

I was surprised also to not see the Kyocera 7135, I have been using it for ~ 2 months now, it's my first "smartphone" but I have been using cell phones and PDAs for several years, and the 7135 is pretty much the best thing since sliced bread. I tried out the treos and tons of other palm devices, and the 7135 beats them all to smitherines. The only complaints I have about it is that it's only 33mhz and the buttons are a little slow on responsiveness. It works great in Linux using serial, and I have heard the USB works with it too.

Re:Ignorance

[jchristopher]

What kind of battery life are you getting on the 7135? Any better than a Treo?

Re:Just curious

[ctour]

I use mine all the time for taking notes with a fold up keyboard in college, I have a flashcard program so I can study while at work, and I can download E-books for free. While the e-book thing may seem small, the books I need for Poli Sci are in ebook form for free, and that saves me about 60 dollars a semester. I also use it for the obvious contact information and alarm clock.

It's not the PDA that sucks

[sjbe]

All these PDAs are cool but they all suck in one very important way. None of them work with any email/address/calendar clients besides Outlook, Notes or Eudora. And even there support is iffy. I'm still waiting for ANYTHING to fully sync with Mozilla. (Palm does a very half baked job and nothing else bothers)

I'd love to buy one of these but I need something that works with a genuinely cross platform email/address/calendar client. Evolution is great, Outlook is easy but none of these are on every platform I use. Without that, it's of no use to me.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[qmrq]

You can sync any almost any PDA to ACT!.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[LordBodak]

Agreed! My employer uses GroupWise and it sucks not having Palm support. I know there is IntelliSync but it's commercial and flaky.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[krokodil]

All Plam devices sync with GNOME address book
and calendar. Just get yourself mail client
which can use these.

It is right way of doing this, because you could not
support all email cients on the market. So it is up to email client to integrate with gnome calendar and address book.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[Queer Boy]

None of them work with any email/address/calendar clients besides Outlook, Notes or Eudora.

Then develop a conduit for whatever application with which you are trying to sync. Palm is very friendly to developers. My m125 syncs just dandy with iCal and Address Book thanks to iSync Palm Conduit.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[Fractalizer]

All these PDAs are cool but they all suck in one very important way. None of them work with any email/address/calendar clients besides Outlook, Notes or Eudora.

I sync my Tungsten T daily with the KDE PIM applications.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Palm is very friendly to Windows or commercial developers. They are not very friendly to developers working on compatible code in the Open Source/Free Software community, and in fact, view us as a direct threat to their business model, and have for a few years.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[hacker]

I'd love to buy one of these but I need something that works with a genuinely cross platform email/address/calendar client. Evolution is great, Outlook is easy but none of these are on every platform I use. Without that, it's of no use to me.

You did read my Syncronizing your PalmOS® Handheld with Ximian Evolution(TM) HOWTO, didn't you?

In any case, you can sync to Mozilla, assuming your export your data to a format suitable for import into Mozilla. The OeOne group are doing just that with their products, and I can do the same thing here with LDIF and other formats.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[sjbe]

All Plam devices sync with GNOME address book
and calendar. Just get yourself mail client
which can use these.

That would be great except that I use Windows about 3/4 of the time (work & such), OS X and linux about split the rest of the time with occasional IRIX use. GNOME just isn't really a viable option on all of these. All these devices use the Outlook address book and calendard too but I'm not really intersted in maintaining multiple address books. More trouble than it is worth.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[sjbe]

Then develop a conduit for whatever application with which you are trying to sync. Palm is very friendly to developers. My m125 syncs just dandy with iCal and Address Book thanks to iSync Palm Conduit.

Not everyone who reads slashdot is a developer or even wants to be. I'm an engineer but software development is not my cup of tea. (If you want to talk CAD or simulation, that's different...) I'd have to develop such an application for at least 3 different operating systems. It's easy to just say "Oh why don't you develop it yourself" but realistically that's not an option. Obviously you didn't develop the app to let you synch, so what makes you think I could/would?

Besides even if I wanted to do it, I don't have the time. (Wife, work, life, etc...)

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[Queer Boy]

Obviously you didn't develop the app to let you synch, so what makes you think I could/would?

Bitch, moan, complain, then says it's not your responsibility to make sure your needs are met.

We need more people like you on the open source front. You're mad that you can't sync with some exotic application? Then don't use that exotic application or, like I said earlier, develop a conduit, beg a developer to develop a conduit or pay to develop a conduit.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[biglig2]

Well, everyone who reads slashdot is I hope sligtly familiar with how the opensource model works; if there are developers who want it enough they'll write it. If there aren't, they won't. I reckon thought that PalmOS is your best bet, given that the conduit mechanisms are well understood and the tools readilly available.

More practically, you could always contribute to Mozilla in a non-developmental way, such as writing docs, take some burden off the developers and encourage them to work on a conduit.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[Dman33]

I could not agree more. The worst part is that my job involves implementing wireless solutions throught a department in my workplace. The problem being that I must make these PDAs integrate with the current infrastructure which involves the dreaded Groupwise...

Getting a PDA to sync up with GW is a total pain from the support side of things.. Yes, there is Intellisync... but that does not work too well. There is just NO real good software to sync a PDA with Groupwise. I guess in an ideal world I would be able to avoid GW, but that is not reality. Hopefully time will bring better solutions.

Re:It's not the PDA that sucks

[TalkingToes]

I went to a Novell training/brainwashing seminar last week. They handed out beta GW6.5 and an additional CD you will be looking forward too getting. Novell ZENworks for Handhelds. This looks very promising, but it was a good demo.

SJ33 means SJ30 on clearance

[evilned]

Went in to staples yesterday just to see if they had anything worthwhile, and sitting in their display case for pda's and pda accessories was a Sony Clie SJ30 on clearance for $125. My Handspring Visor died over the holidays I snatched it right up. Considering that the SJ33 is going for $299 and I already have an mp3 player that holds alot more than I can afford to buy in Sony Memory Sticks, its great for me.

some thoughts

[pummer]

Why would anyone ever need anything more than what the current top-of-the-line Sony Clié has to offer?? Camera? Got it. Mp3 player? Got it. Plenty of memory? Got it.

Help me here.

Re:some thoughts

[UnixRevolution]

mp3 player? got it. Camera? got it. Memory? got it. Nice color display? got it... Good price...uh...*raises finger, then drops arms and bows head* Get a Zaurus, it's about half the price.

Re:some thoughts

[burns210]

...and most importantly, the Clies have a QWERTY keyboard!That is crucial, since, heaven forbid a user might get tired of trying to use the very high quality recognition software and would rather Push A Button.

The only thing I might possibly try to wish for is Sony making a clie model which folds on its wide side(like a loptop) rather than its narrowest side(like a... sony clie?) ofcourse this laptop style clie would have the keyboard flipped accordingly(like you would see on a laptop) and the screen would still be able to flip over top the keyboard to have a traditional allscreen pda.

I love my Kyocera Smartphone, but...

[mbstone]

... next time I'll buy a separate PDA, 'cause the airlines won't let me use a PDA-phone, even though the phone in my Kyocera SmartPhone powers-off separately and the PDA has a big, obvious display reading "PHONE IS OFF."

Dear mbstone:

Thank you for writing. We have recently updated our electronic device usage policy to include PDAs with cell phone capability (whether the phone is on or off) on the list of those items not approved for use during flight. We reached this conclusion because there is no definitive way to ensure the cell phone function is or remains off during flight. Therefore, in the interest of safety, we decided to prohibit their use all together.

We hope to have your understanding and cooperation on this important issue. Please travel with us again soon. It is a privilege to serve you.

Sincerely,

Customer Relations
American Airlines

Re:I love my Kyocera Smartphone, but...

[(H)elix1]

I'll buy a separate PDA, 'cause the airlines won't let me use a PDA-phone, even though the phone in my Kyocera SmartPhone powers-off

Hell, they won't let me listen to mp3's on my ipaq until it 'is safe to use portable electronics' bullshit. Headphones - yup, a walkman is sure a problem. When I pilot a Piper Warrior, I use the bloody thing as a nav aid to time waypoints.

Got to love comities and/or profit generators... AA is going down in flames anyhow. The others are just as bad when it comes to policy, however.

Re:I love my Kyocera Smartphone, but...

[cybermace5]

The frequencies generated in portable devices, especially something as overblown as an iPaq, have long been up to radio communications frequencies. Even though the chance is small, the risk of a device jamming communications, transponder, or radar frequencies is not acceptable: in the middle of the night no pilot can avoid the other airliner coming head-on.

It's not just the wireless functions of these devices; those are already sectioned off into approved ranges by the FCC. It's the internal processors, high-speed square pulses with lots of harmonics all over the spectrum.

Maybe if devices were all reliably shielded to eliminate RF emissions, this wouldn't be an issue. Can't ever be sure though, it seems a lot of case modders have no regard for the EMI they're spraying out of those clear case windows.

Once cabin EM shielding is more universal, there won't be as many problems getting to use your devices. Just as long as they can be sure you're not using your phone...it really screws up the cell network to have a phone's signal in a dozen cells at the same time.

Re:I love my Kyocera Smartphone, but...

[Anonymous Freak]

What's even stupider? Digital (including PCS and 3G) cell phones have been PROVEN by the FAA to not cause any interference with flight instruments. There is no FAA regulation banning cell phones on planes, not even analog ones. There is a recommendation against analog phones on planes with advanced electronics, but it's only a recommendation. Whenever a steward/ess tells me to shut off my phone before the plane's engines have started, I tell them to 'stuff it', and show me the supposed FAA regulation.

Re:I love my Kyocera Smartphone, but...

[laymil]

riiiiiiight. ever see the lovely little fcc approved/required message on the back/bottom/somewhere on most of those lovely devices?
"This device complies with part 15 of the FCC rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions:
(1) This device may not cause harmfule interference.
and
(2) This device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation."

so yeah...i'm gonna have to say that (1) is the kicker here.

Re:I love my Kyocera Smartphone, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Then what happens?

Re:I love my Kyocera Smartphone, but...

[Anonymous Freak]

Usually they go off to find someone that can 'order' me to turn it off. I finish my phone call and hang up. When they come by again, and see that I'm not on my phone (it's still on, mind you,) they leave me alone.

Of course, the last time I tried to use my cell phone on a plane was before 9-11, so I don't know what I'll do next time I try. I think I'll try to find the appropriate FAA rule, and print it out to carry with me.

Re:I love my Kyocera Smartphone, but...

[(H)elix1]

The frequencies generated in portable devices, especially something as overblown as an iPaq, have long been up to radio communications frequencies. Even though the chance is small, the risk of a device jamming communications, transponder, or radar frequencies is not acceptable: in the middle of the night no pilot can avoid the other airliner coming head-on

Not to beat a dead horse, but you realize how insignificant the radio frequencies would be for my 206mhz strongarm CPU? Forget that, do you even know what frequencies are used?

VOR -108mhz and 117.95

Most radio beacons - 190 to 535khz

Most communication ~122.*mhz

VOR/LOC - 108to117.95mhz

DME - 962 to 1213mhz

ELT - 121.5mhz (civilian), not sure about military.

Transponders - 980-1220 MHz

I've actually done a little experimenting to satisfy my sense of self preservation. I tuned the navcom to 206mhz and get no changes in static when I cycle power. Same goes for some of the other frequencies I use. This is when the ipaq is Velcroed above the radio and transponder, not sitting in first class a good 8+ feet behind the cockpit. I cannot detect the ipaq with any of the avionics equipment I use.

The thought that such a device could not only unintentionally broadcast on the same frequency is a bit of a stretch, but theoretically possible. The possibility that the broadcast would have anywhere near enough power to jam any avionics equipment is laughable.

As a side note, most pilots look for other aircraft's lights at night.... I think they are easier to spot than daytime. It is not till you are flying under instrument conditions and larger birds with collision detection gear comes into play.

Re:I love my Kyocera Smartphone, but...

[Unequivocal]

The annoying thing about American Airline's reponse is that cell phones aren't really the danger. Airlines have to ask you to turn off all wireless devices so that numskulls don't bring ham radios on-board and use them ("Uh sorry, I thought it was a cell phone). Cell phones don't interfere with airplane radios. Proof of that was when my boss gave me a ride in his corporate jet (whoopee!). Those pilots couldn't care less what we did with our cell phones, since they knew that all we had were plain old telephones.

On the other hand, we didn't have to buckle up either.

My advice is to just use the dang thing, and tell the flight crew that it's a PDA not a phone. Safety's not the issue, it's liability (as usual).

No Sony T665C mentioned

[digitalgimpus]

Sad, no T665 was listed. Great little device. Small, sleek, powerful, great display. And for $299, can't go wrong. It's an MP3 player too.

Great hardware.

Zire is the only one that make sense

[g4dget]

You can get the Palm Zire for about $80-$100 at your local electronics store. It's great for the things that PalmOS is traditionally good at: calendaring, TODO lists, and simple note taking. I think it's the only Palm that makes any sense.

The high-end Palms with high-end features (MP3, multitasking, cameras, high-resolution screens, etc.) are a horrible combination of hardware and software kludges to get PalmOS to do things that PalmOS was never designed to do. For example, many of those nifty features on the Clie have required Sony to hack their own extensions into PalmOS, and every Palm software vendor needs to accomodate those. And because each vendor hacks PalmOS to their liking, Palm can't even ship a single upgrade from PalmOS 5 to PalmOS 6--you will be able to upgrade your Sony only if Sony spends the time and money to create their own upgrade.

Unfortunately, the Linux PDAs aren't doing much better either. The Zaurus (I own one) is a brick. Several other Linux handheld startups went belly-up. And handhelds.org is fighting a constant battle to reverse engineer handhelds in order to run Linux on them--even handhelds that are developed within Compaq/HP, the company hosting handhelds.org. However, Motorola's use of Linux on their cell phones may give Linux on PDAs a new life.

I hate to say it, but if you are using Windows on your desktop and if you are looking for a high-end handheld, a PocketPC machine probably makes more sense. Even something like the iPaq h1910 ($299) runs rings around more expensive Palm models and is lighter to boot. The big problem with PocketPC is that it is completely proprietary: it pretty much only talks to Windows desktops and the primary development platform for it is Microsoft proprietary. But, then, it isn't clear to me why you would want a high-end handheld to begin with.

Overall, I'd just stick with the Palm Zire, and for the other features (MP3 player, GPS, camera, games, etc.) get separate, dedicated devices.

Re:Zire is the only one that make sense

[dasmegabyte]

I'm a mac user and I love my Pocket PC. Although I should point that unless you are fairly proficient with both devices your goose is pretty well roasted to get them to interoperate.

But since all I ever do is xfer mp3s and DivX files to my CF card, it works fabulous.

Re:Zire is the only one that make sense

[UnixRevolution]

Time for a night on the town! I need my geekcessories! Let me get my zire, my cell phone, my mp3 player, my voice recorder, my game boy with its seven cartridges, my gps, my digital camera... oh my. Now i know why they invented cargo pants...

Re:Zire is the only one that make sense

[guacamolefoo]

I would suggest buying a used handspring visor. You get the PDA stuff and you can use the modules. My current favorite is the Sprint PCS module, which gives you a (slightly bulky) cellphone/PDA combo for about $15 bucks (eBay). A Visor Deluxe or Neo can be had for about $70. Whole deal is less than a Zire and far, far cooler.

GF.

Re:Zire is the only one that make sense

[burns210]

solution to get your highend geed device:

1. Gameboy Advanced $70
2. 5Gb Ipod $300

For 370 bucks (around or cheaper than most "highend" pdas) you get space than any(!) palm and better games to boot!

Re:Zire is the only one that make sense

[m3djack]

I just bought a Sony Clié NX60. I'm a photographer, and I'm able to carry this handheld in my pocket everywhere I go. I use FileMaker Mobile to synchronize my Film database archive with my Palm, so whenever I expose a roll/sheet of film in the field, I can immediately enter and catalog it into my archival database. Furthermore, the high res screen is great for carrying around a BUNCH of my work scanned in. I mean, I pull this thing out in front of other people I work with and they think it's incredibly cool. I'm sure it isn't just useful to those in my field of work, but I'm so incredibly happy with the handheld I don't know where to begin. Better than carrying a laptop around that's for sure.

Re:Zire is the only one that make sense

[thenerd]

I've got a pocket PC and when I get some money will move my laptop over to being a mac. I found this out, which looks like it might fit the bill:

http://www.pocketmac.net/

Re:Zire is the only one that make sense

[dasmegabyte]

Pocketmac is beta software. It's expensive and from what I hear it doesn't work very well. Basically, you're paying to test for him and there's hints that he's going to charge for upgrades at some point.

You know it's not easy to do what he's doing, he's going alone and against the grain of both companies, but I'd rather just rely on my own means to get data to and from the palmtop.

There's another product...can't remember the name off the top of my head...that's taking a different stance than pocketmac in making the two work together. Rather than make a mac product that pretends to be ActiveSync, these guys are making the pocketpc work like a mac "native" device, adding support for it in iTunes and syncing it with iCal/Rendezvous. Personally, this sounds like a much better route...plus it's much cheaper ($35 vs $50/$100 for pocketmac).

Of course, this is all assuming it works.

Incidentally, if you're a mac/pocket pc developer interested in helping with an OSS project to connect pocketpc to the mac as a removable drive, thus eliminating the middleman USB card reader i'm using now, let me know. I've been thinking about starting one.

Re:Zire is the only one that make sense

[dasmegabyte]

Ahhh here it is...Missing Sync, http://www.markspace.com/pocketpcpreview.html

I think I trust it more since they already have a version for the Clio, that's apparently pretty good and fairly priced. As opposed to charging a pantload for a beta :).

Being a geek's gadget???

[Znonymous Coward]

Since when is a Palm a geek gadget? A Zarus is a geek gadget... Palms are for HR managers.

Don't forget

[commodoresloat]

(1) to whine about the mouse
(2) to mention Kreskin
(3) red ink! river of blood!

Re:Don't forget

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF!! Microsoft advertisement on/.???

Re:Don't forget

[JCMay]

Did he mention

(4) the latest Netcraft survey?
(5) Usenet post ratios?

I agree, if he's going to do the $(whatever) is dying troll, he needs to do it right!

No Kidding

[Galahad2]

Look at their "Review" of the iMac. They literally took Apple's own propaganda (from a year ago, since this is an old story), added a few exclamation points, and printed it. Now I like Apple just as much as anyone here, but it doesn't help anyone to portray this propaganda for a review. Furthermore, one look at their Aquaesque forum, and their perceived credibility and objectiveness take another hit.

I've been messing with handhelds a lot lately

[Gizzmonic]

my girlfriend just bought the Clie (16MB, High-res display, b&W, Memory Stick)

and I myself received a Treo 90 for my birthday. (16 MB, lo-res, color, SD)

The Clie comes with so much useless software that my girlfriend had to delete a ton of stuff before she could install her medical reference software. She has 16 friggin MB, which should be about ten times as much needed for palm OS. She wants to get a Memory Stick, but a lot of Palm apps don't work running of the stick.

My Treo 90 is pretty neat...except that the backlight has blown out. Twice. And every time it happens, I have to wait on hold for 30 minutes. Hope it doesn't happen again!

So..I can't recommend either of these handhelds. Perhaps Dell's new offering might be a smarter choice!

Who needs a "Palm" device of ANY kind?

[realmolo]

I have yet to meet anyone that owns one of these things that wouldn't be better served by just having either a) a $.69 Mead notebook and a Bic or b) a notebook computer Most fall into category 'a'. It seems to me that the vast majority of people who claim to "need" a palmtop computer are just looking to gain some of the "look at my expensive gadget" attention they used to be able to get with a cellphone or pager. I challenge ANYONE to convince me that they "need" a computer to keep track of their appointments and phone numbers. Pen and paper works better. And if you actually need computer functionality, you should have a notebook computer.

Re:Who needs a "Palm" device of ANY kind?

[brokeninside]

A PDA is better for me than option (a) because (1) I type far, far faster than I can write; (2) I write almost illegibly; and (3) I can't copy and paste from paper and pen to the paper I'm writing in LaTeX. I use my PDA (with a Targus Stowaway keyboard) to take notes and write papers. This combination works better than option (b) because (1) it is far, far less expensive; (2) has far, far better battery life; (3) transfers files with my desktop far, far more seemlessly; (4) is far, far more intuitive to use; and (5) is far, far more portable.

Re:Who needs a "Palm" device of ANY kind?

[UnixRevolution]

Here Here!

My zaurus serves me far better than pen/paper and my notebook (which i'm using now) ever could. I love my laptop, but it's just not as portable as a handheld. I couldn't take it into, say, the Norwegian parliament ;)

Re:Who needs a "Palm" device of ANY kind?

[NMerriam]

I challenge ANYONE to convince me that they "need" a computer to keep track of their appointments and phone numbers

Nobody is forcing you to buy one, and I don't think anyone is required to convince you they are worthy of owning a PDA.

that said, if you've never met someone who:

a) has a lot of contacts with frequently changing information

b) needs to share contact and scheduleing information with secrataries, coworkers, etc

c) retrieves changing information on a regular basis to be viewed at unscheduled times

d) doesn't want to wait 30 seconds for a computer to turn on just to look up a phone number

e) doesn't want to constantly worry about a battery dying in the middle of something important

Then I can believe you don't know anyone who would find a PDA more useful than paper or a notebook computer. But some of us do all those things on a regular basis.

Re:Who needs a "Palm" device of ANY kind?

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to be a regular FranklinCovey paper-based planner customer, getting new pages every year. Three years ago my wife bought me a Palm IIIxe, nothing fancy, just the monochrome screen. I love it, it's all I need and I don't plan on upgrading until it breaks beyond repair.

Do I "need" it? No, but that's not the point. I don't need a microwave oven either, I suppose I could just stick my beef on a stick and roast it over a fire in the front yard. The microwave oven and the Palm just make life easier.

The proof is when the boss says something like, "Umkay...everyone e-mail me a breakdown of what you did over the past two months, so I can see how productive we've been." They're trying to pull something out of their asses, while a hotsync and a few cut and pastes later, I'm done.

Re:Who needs a "Palm" device of ANY kind?

[Anonymous Coward]

Those of us without girlfriends, you insensitive clod. :(

Re:Who needs a "Palm" device of ANY kind?

[be-fan]

a) a $.69 Mead notebook and a Bic or
>>>>>>>>
My dad has more contacts than most people have MP3s. He has something like a dozen scheduled phone calls and meetings a day. His situation is quite a common one. He replaced his overflowing 2-inch thick contact book with a 1/2-inch thick Sony Clie. He spends less time searching for names and numbers, and the thing gives a nice alert when he has an appointment. Of course, I spend a a lot of time troubleshooting the damn thing, but I figure he saves a good deal more time by using it than I waste fixing it :)

Re:Who needs a "Palm" device of ANY kind?

[Rob Simpson]

I don't need a computer to keep track of appointments and phone numbers. I do need a computer that can store the equivalent of five heavy medical reference texts (which I could barely lift all at once), fit in my pocket, and work for weeks on a set of AAA's.

A notebook computer would be much harder to carry while walking around for 8 hours a day, wouldn't have the software available for its operating system (though an emulator might work), would take minutes to powerup instead of being instantly ready, and would need to be charged daily.

The phone numbers and appointments thing is just a handy extra.

Re:Who needs a "Palm" device of ANY kind?

[Anonymous Coward]

"A notebook computer would be much harder to carry while walking around for 8 hours a day"

You could design special pouch for it.

Re:Hair on my Palm

[Anonymous Coward]

hilarious!!!!!!!!!

Like the Amazon ad circular, only less attractive

[slyborg]

Tthis is the most brutal page hit troll I've seen in a while. They couldn't even be bothered to put up a comparison chart of some kind.

The only way to improve on this would be to get Taco to dup it in the next hour or two.

It's all about the handspring

[Anonymous Coward]

Handspring. Nuf said

Re:PDAs suck

[M3wThr33]

I guess that's a good thing that you don't have the NZ90. Or else your penis would be the weight of a brick and have a bend in the middle. ;-)

girlfriend, eh?

[qmrq]

[Insert stupid immature comment about /.'ers relationships with females here]

Thought I may as well say it before someone else did. ; P

Handspring Visors...

[KeelSpawn]

Although the newest visor came out at the end of year 2000, let's not forget the clever feature that they all came with - the springboard expansion slot. With over 100 modules varing from GPS, digital cameras, digital voice recorders, language translators, bar-code scanners, mp3-players, CF/SD/MMC readers, digital projector adapters, Personal Massagers (!), to other numerous wireless moduels.

Maybe the newest handhelds today has all the above "built-in", but let's not forget who invented the wheel.

Re:Handspring Visors...

[Anonymous Coward]

I own a Visor Prism with 2 springboard modules:
the Visorphone (which doubles as a wireless modem) and the personal Massager (which I ordered with no small amount of trepidation, but honest to god, it works just like it is advertised). I also sprang for a Taurus folding keyboard; full sized keyboard that folds up to a size not much larger than the Prism itself. About $200, $250 all told. Can edit documents, browse the web, chat on aim, make phone calls, etc. etc. without lugging a laptop around campus.

Re:Handspring Visors...

[djcatnip]

Maybe the newest handhelds today has all the above "built-in", but let's not forget who invented the wheel. yeah, Apple's Message Pad.

respect the modifier!

[Ravagin]

Sorry, this has been bugging me for a long time and hell I've got karma to burn. I'm not picking on the poster, just the general grammatical carelessness to which I too am occasionally subject.

Being a geek's gadget, :) I would recommend you guys to check out this roundup if you are planning to get a new Palm PDA

Okay, so you are recommending this to us because you are a geek's gadget? Some sort of AI agent perhaps, or a sexbot? Eh?

Okay, I'm done.

In on-topic news, my second-hand TRG Pro has lasted me well for over a year now; the CF slot keeps it expandable and the PalmPix camera keeps it indispensable. Use of the PalmPix is the only real argument against the HandEra 330 when the TRG fails.

Remember when OS 3.5 was hot? Anybody? No? I'll just go read this review for some new game called Dungeons&Dragons, then....

Re:respect the modifier!

[Lifewolf]

Use of the PalmPix is the only real argument against the HandEra 330 [handera.com] when the TRG fails.

heFontMapper is said to correct the problems with using PALMPIX cameras with the 330. I've not tested it yet myself.

Nice bullshi - er - review

[Headius]

Great review. I always like my hardware reviews crammed full of marketing claptrap from start to finish!

Re:Nice bullshi - er - review

[mcwetboy]

And popups. Don't forget the lovely, wonderful popups.

Feature missing in all but the Palm products

[mpechner]

There is one feature that Palm should boast that Sony and Handspring don't have.
When a palm runs low on power, it shutsdown and you have about a week to get it recharged.
For sony and handspring, they reset. Very annoying.
I'm hoping for a B&W palm 5 device from palm. Battery life is more important to me than color for my hand helds.

Thanks. I think.

[blair1q]

Any more superlatives left? I've run out. Man. All that PR after so many saturday-night beers. I think I just bought a palm-enabled camel.

another dupe

[shfted!]

This story is a dupe. It was already posted two days from now.

I disagree. Have you ever actually USED one?

[FallLine]

Although I, too, own a Palm Vx and love it, the 705 is even better for me. Having built in email, IM, and other internet functionality is very nice (e.g., mapquest, google, etc) and handy. While you are correct that the underlying technology on the 705 is almost the same as the Palm VII, it is the minor changes that make all the difference. First and foremost, the 705's size and shape is much better from a strict usability point of view. Second, the screen is better, much crisper and easier to read in poor light conditions (e.g., outside). Third, it's more attractive. Fourth, it's got an LED and a vibrating alarm to notify you without having to physically check your email (i.e., it pushes notification out to you in a battery efficient manner). Fifth, it integrates with real email well, like the blackberry (not like Palm VII's, if i remember correctly, psuedo email). Sixth, the minikeyboard rules (I couldn't imagine trying to write most emails w/ grafitti)

In short, it does its job very well, that is to say PDA (contacts, scheduling, etc) + email + minor browsing. I don't think it's the greatest looking and I wish it were metal, but there is nothing else that really competes yet, other then the Blackberry and maybe the Treo. Of course with the blackberry you've got too few lines on the traditional model for web and the newer one is too big. The Treo's coverage is lacking and I really don't want my phone integrated just yet. IMHO, it's the best at what it does right now, and will probably be until the Tungstun W (presuming that data coverage is anywhere near as comprehensive and if the battery life holds up), so it does deserve to be there. The 705, like the blackberry, is one of those devices that you just have to actually use for a couple days to appreciate it.

Zire is the only one that DOESN'T make sense.

[Rob Simpson]

The Zire?! For the same price (or less) you can get a Visor, instead of a machine that'll turn into a paperweight once the battery dies in a year or two, and get a nicer screen and tons of memory for traditional PDA tasks.

For medical reference, which is what I use my PDA for, PDA's with easier expandability make sense, such as the Clie SL10 or the Handera 330. PocketPCs don't - there is far less useful software for them, and both they and the fancy mega colour mp3 palms have pathetic battery life.

I'm not sure who all these multimedia bricks (pocketpc and palm) make sense for...

Re:that's because he's inbred

[SexyTr0llGal]

Yeah, but so's "she".

Another Option

[PatientZero]

I just got the Treo 90 and am happy for what I need and being price-constrained. Check it out.

I didn't do much research this time (played with a bunch at Circuit City and have owned Palms before). However, in looking for grafitti software for it (it has a keyboard and no grafitti), I read a review of it on about.com. It was pretty much right-on with only one exception: the reviewer said you can't use it with the cover closed, but that's not true.

You might want to check their other PDA reviews.

Re:Another Option

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you can't use it with the cover closed.

Try to launch an app that is not on one of the 4 buttons: impossible

Another example: you can scroll to a specific entry in the address book, but you cannot open it.

The only thing you can do is looking at your appointments (but not to related notes, and you cannot change view).

Hey, with the default config, you cannot even have the time without opening the cover (because the clock is in alt). Pretty fucked, if you want my opinion...

Re:Another Option

[PatientZero]

Good points, but I wouldn't call that "unusable" but rather "not very useful" if I were writing a review. "Unusable" means you cannot use it at all to me, meaning it won't even turn on. But yes, it would be nice if you could do more with the cover closed. Most other PDAs, however, are truly "unusable" when their covers are closed because the cover is opaque.

Regarding switching datebook views, I'm pretty sure hitting the button multiple times still cycles through the views you've closen as "bottom buttuns" or whatever it's called in the preferences.

Looking for a used Palm

[abischof]

I have a Palm Vx at the moment, but I'm finding that I use Plucker more and more, which I figure would really benefit from a color screen. So, if you happen to be selling your (color) Palm, drop me a line :). (Plucker is a free offline web browser for the Palm)

Re:Looking for a used Palm

[Skudakumoochooowte]

I use Plucker on my Palm and love it. For those who don't know, one of its features is compression of data. I squeezed a 30MB website onto my 8MB Palm with it.

Bought a Zaurus and have a Palm...

[SuperKendall]

The Zaurus sits unused while the Palm V still goes with me every day - because it's right there in my pocket with my keys!!! The Zaurus is just too big for that.

The Zaurus is kind of nifty but it's no real Palm replacement. Not to mention the battery life is terrible, especially if you even think about attaching a CF 802.11b card!

And then...

[SuperKendall]

Make sure you are sitting by a plug, so you can recharge the thing every hour or so.

The Zaurus is nice (I have one) but the Palm is usable. Instead of "getting stuck with an outdated OS", why not use a "stable and well-supported system with many apps", and wait for the other guys to catch up in real-world usability - in other words, get a palm to use for a decade or so, and then see what sorts of things people have out (and if they still have cameras by then or if they've given up that fad). Rule of thumb - if you want something you'll use every day, get a Palm - if you want a toy buy something else.

Not that Palm devices are immune from the infections camera tumor disease. The GPS palm looked possibly handy though...

The Palm adds real value

[SuperKendall]

I know it seems like for what people use them for, the Palm is not much better than a notepad.

But, if you carry a notepad in your pocket like you can a Palm (with a hardcase), then it (the notebook) will get chewed up over time.

Plus, if you loose the notebook you're done for. If you loose a palm (breakage or theft) your data is sitting right there on the computer waiting to push out to a new device - or even to an upgraded device if you just buy new (instead of having to copy a whole notebook worth of data when you get a notebook with more pages).

It's true I use mine mostly for note taking and contact data - but even just for that it's way better than a notebook just for the searchable access and convenience as it is ALWAYS with me. Beyond that I use it as a clock so I don't have to wear a watch, to know what time the sun rises/sets, a password holder (using "strip" so my passwords are held with at least a bit of encryption, try that with a notebook!).

I also add on custom things for different uses, like dive tables and dive log info, or whatever I might need for a trip. Handy things, these general purpose computing devices!

I would argue I do, in fact, need a good PDA... I use it so I don't have to remember trivia (like people's phone numbers) and can keep track of important thoughts for later access that might otherwise vanish. Not that all such thoughts are worth saving forever - but some are!

Buy a secondhand Palm Vx

[Anonymous Coward]

I did and have been very happy with it. The battery didn't last long, so I guess that's why the guy sold it. However, the Vx was in an excellent shape aside from the fast battery drain (like few days). But then I found a tip from the internet: I backed up the ROM and RAM, did a hard reset and then let it be in the cradle to recharge for a long time. After that, wow I can run many weeks with a single recharge...

Maybe later I'll upgrade to a newer model with BlueTooth and WLAN. Vx is black+white, has 8 Mb of memory (it's plenty, trust me... I've tons of different alarm tones, software that I use like three times a year etc. and there's still almost 2 Mb left) and works very well.

And, if you run Linux, it integrates extremely well to Ximian Evolution... you can sync your calendar entries and stuff to the one in Ximian.

Re:Buy a secondhand Palm Vx

[fozzmeister]

I've got a Tunsten-T and using Gnome2, I can't get Evolution and the Tungsten-T to sync. Got pilot-xfer and all that working fine so I'm waiting for Evolution2 and gnome-pilot2 to be released. JPilot does an OK job of being a desktop for the Palm tho so its not too bad I guess.

I'm still happy with the Palm, Plucker is really neat, I love to be able to play ogg's, Just wish there were more Free software for it.

ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW

[mildness]

1. Get a keyboard. I've had different PDA's since the first Palm. My tests show I'm 3x faster with the little keyboard (I can't do a little "v" in grafitti so save my life). I've read that Jot has even more keystrokes than Grafitti.

2. Palm OS is everywhere. If you want to use off-the-shelf apps from avantgo, etc get a Palm.

3. The smaller the better. Who cares how cool your xyz toy is if you need a backpack, dorkyass beltloop holster or little purse (like my buds with they Sonys) to carry the thing around with you?

4. If your goal is hacking, just like the desktop, get linux. If you want it to solve problems with a minimum of fuss go with Palm OS

5. Color is nice for pictures of family, etc. Greyscale is fine otherwise IMHO.

Cheers,

Bill

Not so sharp Zaurus

[iamacat]

I tried to give a cradled Zaurus access to our company's network by bridging connections. The bridge dutifully forwarded DHCP requests on the LAN to the server that the thing runs by default. Dozens of PCs got the bogus addresses and stopped working. The anger of the admin that came to my office to investigate quickly gave way to laughter when he realized just which device was acting as the "Enterprise" DHCP server.

Maybe Zaurus is powerful but its not very polished. It's bad enough that the desktop software is Windows only. Last time I checked, there was no Mac software and you had to wait for a patch for your exact version of Linux kernel, recompile it and run ipconfig by yourself. But even on Windows, it doesn't look as nice as Palm desktop and doesn't support network or modem sync.

At this stage, Zaurus is a good PDA for curious developers, not for people who want to have their address book, calendar and star trek e-books and not worry too much about setting things up.

I am holding my breath for iWalk. One can always dream, right?

V as in Graffiti

[panurge]

Write the V backwards. It's in the FAQ.

That's pretty distorted.

[Trillan]

Palm licensees have access to the source code. The Palm OS 4 Sony Cliés do some unique stuff, but it's done in a safe manner. The only complaints I've heard about compatibility is the colors for the virtual silkscreen area can go odd.

Hires on Sony/Palm OS 4 is done through what basically amounts to a DLL. Applications that want to support Hires need to load the library and execute it. Applications that want to take over the grafiti area need to specify that as well.

Hires on Palm OS 5 is all done the same way, through a nw API that PalmSource has added.

But you're right, PalmSource can't ship a single version of Palm OS 6 that covers all Palm OS handhelds. But why would you want them to? Wouldn't you rather have Sony responsible for Palm OS 6/Sony compatibilty than PalmSource?

I love my Clié NR70. My next handheld will probably be a Tungsten T, but it won't be for compatibility... I've been spoiled by the small size when developing for them and I want Bluetooth at a lower price than Sony can give me.

Palm Zire..

[Chicane-UK]

I recently managed to persuade my boss to buy me a Palm Zire (yes, I realise that they are cheap, but he also bought me a Sun Blade 100 early last year so I think he has about spent all he is going to on me!) - I was asking about one because I am terrible at keeping notes on little scraps of paper all over my desk, then consequently losing or throwing them away.

I was expecting the Zire, at its entry level price, to be bulky and under-featured - but nothing could be further from the truth. Its very small & light and rammed with cool features. There are a few games on there to keep you entertained (heck, I even downloaded Lemmings for it.. I remeber when that was a flagship game for the PC!!) and lots of useful applications to keep memo's, phone numbers, appointments and more.

Worth every penny.. :)

Re:Palm Zire..

[Perdition]

I too was waiting for shame and regret to rain down upon me when I purchased my Zire. what I found was a smart, long-lasting lil' buddy who keeps me on track and helps in ways I really hadn't considered. Avantgo has become my new addiction, and even 2 paltry megs of memory holds more info than I could ever constructively keep elsewhere. Plus, since I paid 90 dollars for it, if I break it, I don't cry and start saving up, I just skip a few outings to Applebee's and buy a new one. Sure, it would be great to have a device that does more, but unless it's under 100 bucks, I'd just worry about breaking it. Get a Zire, now.

Well, sure, I could live without one.

[Trillan]

I could live without a lot of things: Computers, electricity, furniture. Maybe a Palm would be easier to live with than electricity or furniture, but I use my Palm a lot. My Palm right now contains 165 contacts, a scientific calculator, an email program that works with my cell phone, 35 notes (including some really long ones that are story kernels), a custom database with about 500 people, the schedule for the Vancouver Canucks, meetings I've agreed to go to, and a remote control for the TV at the pub I watch them at. Yah, I get to adjust the volume if the barkeep misses it. :D

Size of the P800

[EnglishTim]

A colleague bought one of these on Friday, and it is loveley. However, do beware of the size - it's very big for a phone. I am tempted by the idea of getting one, but I've been very spoiled by the thinness of my Palm V, and I'm not sure I could put up with the bulk of the P800.

No info on J2ME

[opencity]

Press release journalism. No info on Java/Linux/Macromedia/etc support. You can 'browse the web'. Yes, but whose?

It runs Linux, so it must be good...

[TheRaven64]

Newsflash: Linux is not the perfect solution for every problem.
I want a PDA that will play oggs, take notes / jotted drawings, connect to an 802.11b network, or GPRS when that isn't availible and un a jabber client. Oh, and I want it to fit into a shirt pocket. If it runs Linux, fine. If it runs ObscureOS(tm) then that's fine as well. Hell, I'd even be happy with it running Wince if it did what I want it to...
The original Palm prototype was a block of wood, and the only constraint that the design team was given was that their design should be no bigger than the block of wood. If I'm going to cary this thing around with me all day, I want it to be easy to carry. Linux is great in a server, but you simply do not need a full-featured, server-class OS in a PDA. Someone I know recently bought a Wince machine. It has a 400MHz CPU. It feels about as fast as a 33MHz dragonball based Palm (although the latter can't handle ogg playback).
A PDA is not a desktop computer, and should not be treated as such.

Journalistic Integrity?�

[vivIsel]

Built-in Bluetooth(TM) technology allows you to pair your CLIÉ(TM) handheld with other Bluetooth(TM) compatible peripheral devices. HotSync® your CLIÉ(TM) handheld with a Bluetooth(TM) enabled VAIO® PC, exchange data or play games between CLIÉ(TM) handhelds using Bluetooth(TM), or connect to the Internet via mobile phone with built-in Bluetooth(TM) -- all wirelessly (Bluetooth(TM) compatible peripherals sold separately and internet service provider required)! These are only a few of the possibilities.

Good(TM) to(TM) know(TM) that(TM) there's(TM) a(TM) hardware(TM) review(TM) site(TM) out(TM) there(TM) that(TM) has(TM) some shred of(TM) journalistic(TM) integrity!(TM)(TM)(TM)(TM)(TM)(TM)(TM)

Still waiting...

[TV-SET]

I am still waiting for a device which I will want to buy. The trend apparently is to develop mobile phones into PDAs, while, IMHO, it is so easy to stick a GSM phone into PDA.

Mobiles are sucky PDAs: they have small screen, ugly keyboard, and no expansion slots. ;) PDAs are on the other hand are perfect for...hmm...PDAing. The only thing that is missing is a GSM voice connection.

At the moment I see a PDA with GSM and QWERTY keyboard that will go into my pocket, I'll buy the damn thing.

Re:Still waiting...

[SiMac]

Then get a Visor and a VisorPhone. It's a GSM phone as a springboard module. Not sure if they still sell them, but you could probably pick up one used on eBay.

They didn't sell too well because they were expensive and somewhat bulky.

Re:Still waiting...

[jchristopher]

Handspring Treo?

Re:Still waiting...

[Anonymous Coward]

The combination of a mobile phone, PDA, and Headset communicating with Bluetooth can solve the need to have one clunky device do all things. Sometimes it is better to have multiple small devices do one thing really well.

Integrated mobile phone

[StrawberryFrog]

Why would anyone ever need anything more than what the current top-of-the-line Sony Clié has to offer?? Camera? Got it. Mp3 player? Got it. Plenty of memory? Got it. Help me here.

Integrated mobile phone a la handspring treo.

It's what I want. Otherwise I have to carry 2 gadgets.

Palm and GPS?

[GlobalEcho]

I know this is somewhat OT, but how goes current integration of Palm and GPS? That is, I know you can buy an amazing little GPS tab for a Palm that plugs into the CF slot, and that you can buy some map software that looks to have better European street info than Garmin's own maps.

But do they work well together? If I use the CF slot for the GPS can I no longer add memory those maps will want so much?

Should I just hope to get the Garmin Palm device (which is not out yet) before I travel this spring, and hope it lets me use third party maps?

And what about those GPS tabs? It looks like at least some of them need to be factory serviced in order to switch between WAAS and Europe's experimental equivalent of EGNOS .

Help a fellow electronics fetishist!

Re:Palm and GPS?

[biglig2]

I believe there are people having sucess connecting Bluetooth enabled GPS's to a Palm, that is worth a look. And of course cable connections are well established.

As you observed, using the SD slot (it's not a CF slot on the Palm made devices!) prevents you storing stuff on an SD card.

I suspect the Garmin will prove to be a tremendous piece of kit, though, so if you can get hold of one I'd suggest it is worth serious consideration.

Why do US publications not REVIEW?

[gilgongo]

This question is a bit OT, but it's been annoying me for a while: why do so few US websites and print magazines seem to independently review products like they do in Europe? All the PDAs on show here just have re-hashed press releases to read. I could just go the manufacturer's websites and read that. Christ it must be boring to write as well.

Are there any sites that say things like "After three weeks of using the Zarus, I was ready to catapult it into a tree" or "The Clie is wonderful, but if you want to use it more than 10 feet from a power socket, forget it."

Granted, there aren't many European publications that go to the extreme of actually panning a product, but if it's fair comment, they will. Most at least try to inject some insight into comparative reviews, however terrified their editors might be of losing advertising revenue.

serial k/b

[SHEENmaster]

I converted my cradle. I just removed the usb-crap and replaced it with a DB9 serial port then plugged up a k/b from an old dumb terminal. An RJ45 for a newer terminal would also work.

I'm sure you'll reply with something like "how much time did you waste on that", but I have a full sized k/b that could be replaced with a modem, no trouble.

Is it even possible to get 802.11b from a palm!? If you want longer battery life get the Zaurus SL-5600; I bought my 5500 because I like having 64mb of usable ram wherever I need it.

I am no expert on qtopia's pda utilities; I honestly think that pen&paper is the best solution for keeping track of my lameass repetitive life. I did try graffiti, it my be better than the Z's recognition, but neither worked well enough to by considered a viable option.

On another note: I was able to recover all the data from my Zaurus after its screen broke. I can login over my LAN and get a console or use VNC to graphically interact with it.

Palm as eBook reader

[msheppard]

I have to once again plug the palm platform as an excellent eBook read. The 160x160 monochrome display on my PalmV is enough to read comfortably, without eye strain, and with the back-light, it's possibly to read your eBook anywhere anytime. I've had mine for about 3-4 years. I am in the market to upgrade and all of the products in this so-called round up are feature heavy. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to get a palm Vx, as the only thing I miss on the V is memoery. I can only have 2 books in my palm at a time, but I usually only keep one becuase you need as much free memory as whatever you want to beam.

Anyhow, I *highly* recommend reading eBooks on the palm. If you think finding the latest Phish CD on Kazaa is kewl, try getting something from the NYT bestseller's list. Keeps you entertained for far longer than a 5 min OOG or MP3.

M@

That would be great, but...

[moodboom]

I just tried to bid on the two available and got out-proxy-bidded to $40 bucks... karma be damned, I just have to ask... are you the the seller, guac? Slashdotting your own auction, for shame! :>

Re:That would be great, but...

[guacamolefoo]

No, although I do have a spare Visor Deluxe (I bought the Neo after Christmas because I thought I lost the Deluxe -- it was actually at my folks' house.).

If you want it for $40 (plus shipping), I would be happy to sell it for that.

GF.

It's called a Newton

[laptop006]

and mines sitting right next to me at the moment.

Actually I agree with ya, matey...

[moodboom]

I was just kidding - I would love to find a cheap Sprint PCS module for my Handspring. When I bought the Handspring almost 3 years ago a phone was all I wanted as an add-on. I totally agree it would be a great, lean-and-mean, PDA solution.

The bottom line, IMHO: PDA's that try to be laptops haven't really solved the SIZE catch-22:

You still can't beat a full keyboard and screen to get serious work done

With our current tech, you can't decrease the footprint without sacrificing in those areas

The folding keyboards are one step in that direction, but they are pretty damned klunky and you have twice as much bulk to carry... (insert obligatory "rabbit in pocket" joke here...)

Re:Actually I agree with ya, matey...

[guacamolefoo]

I think that the PCS modules are $20 new from the Handspring site right now. At least they were a little bit ago - I got mine for about $15 on eBay -- periodically, big batches come up for sale as people liquidate their stocks. Keep your eye out, and if you really want one, you'll find it for around that after a couple or few weeks.

GF.

The Zaurus....

[jotaeleemeese]

... is running Embedded Linux. It is not the same as the one in your server.

IMAP?

[jotaeleemeese]

I thought PalmOS can sincy with any IMAP clients out there?

Dragonix

[Felinoid]

Your right you don't need a full featured server os in your pocket (I do but that's a diffrent story)
As Solarus experts will tell you Linux isn't full featured as Linux experts will tell you it's not just a server os.

Linux was born more or less a hacker os (White hat not Black hat) but it has so much potental byond that. It wouldn't be a good hacker os if it didn't.

TiVO and Servers and home users and maybe one day PDAs. Maybe.....

Dragonix seams to solve the Linux on a PDA problem by well running Linux on a Dragonball proccesor not a high end processor.
I like it becouse it is itself open. You can't buy it in stores you gotta build it and as a result you get every feature you want all in one pacage. Want 802.11b? Sure wire it in. MP3? Hacked and done. Bluetooth? Sodering iron and your good to go.
I like it a lot...

But wait did you notice the tone? Yep I never held one in my life. I don't know if it dose the job. I hope it dose becouse Handspring discontinued the Visor so when I need to upgrade thats where I'm going.

Yes I have a PalmOs device. I figure by the time I'm ready to upgrade the kinks will be gone from the Dragonix PDA.
I won't be going Zarus or Wince and as my favoret upgradable PDA is discontinued I've only one choice. If needed I'll upgrade the battery becouse battery life is the second most important thing to me.....

Telnet access is the most important. Like I said I need a server in my pocket and the best way to get that is to use a free unix shell acount over a wireless PDA....