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Apple Updates Professional Video Lineup
BlueGecko writes "Amid surprisingly little fanfare, Apple today updated their entire professional video lineup, including DVD Studio Pro 2 (including a greatly improved menu editor and improved compression abilities), Final Cut Pro 4 (enhanced real-time editing, more customizable workflow, and an improved titling interface), and Shake 3--the first version of Shake to be Mac OS X-only and now sporting enhanced rotoscoping tools and the ability to work directly with Photoshop layers. Combine this with Logic and you've got an entire professional movie studio on your Mac."
That would go great with the new video tools.
Shake is NOT OS X only. There are still other versions for linux/irix... there ARE some Mac OS X only features however (Rendezvous enabled Distributed computing). also - the Mac OS X version is $5000 cheaper.
If you go to the Shake 3 page and click on Tech Specs it lists the specs and type of license available for Linux and Irix versions of Shake 3
Only Windows 2000/XP support has been dropped.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Who needs fancy smancy tools to do video editing on the Mac? Real men use iMovie! Right? Right? That's what the salesman told me!!! He wouldn't lie would he?!?!
They are totally cutting out Logic users from the ability to use a PC in the near future. I have no idea how long they plan to keep logic for PC updated, but I absolutely love logic. Midi wise, it's far ahead of pro tools and it can utilize the VST plugins while pro tools forces you upon expensive RTAS or TDM (depending on whether you use LE or a MIX system). I'm happy with my digi 001 running with logic on a pc. Runs great...I am sad however. Oh well.
Anyone know the exact cutoff date?
Also, we need to get open support for the digidesign stuff, as well as the presonus firestation and the motu stuff.
-gabe
is by far my FAVORITE video editing software. in fact, that is the ONLY reason I use a mac (please don't hate me for that). However, I really don't think that these improvements warrant an upgrade (hey, it's an expensive product). In fact, I can hardly tell the difference between FCP2 and FCP3. Maybe I'm just ignorant, or retarded, but I can't actually tell the difference when using the product. Maybe that's a good thing though, Mac is all about streamlining their software for perfect integration. Anywayz ... kinda lost my train of thought ... oh, yeah. Anywayz, Their DVD software is only mediocre, nothing really superb about it. Nothing really wrong with it either. Ok, then we have shake. Looks a lot like combustion from Discreet (3dstudio max people) but i haven't used shake before (I'm on a budget, okay) so I really can't say too mush about it. But lets look at the bright side, it runs in OSX (first time i read that i thought it sed osex) and the slashdot crowd should probably appreciate that. Personally, I'm happy chugging along with OS9 and the dual 1ghz mac I use FCP on. Moral of the story, apple does ONE thing very well, and that thing is Video editing.... i wish FCP was released for winders (or at least linux. I mean, if it can run on OSX, then its only a jump, hop, and skip away from Linux, Right?)
YOU SUCK BALLS!
::looks around at the sudden deluge of crap::
...or, is troll nappy time simply over?
Well, I suppose that somethingawful.com's readers were bound to make it back to slashdot sooner or later, eh?
"CmdrTaco, it's 12 o'clock... do you know where your trolls are?"
Just what were the problems with FCP3?
Weird. I haven't seen a Macintosh salesman since, oh... 1990?
Usually, I ran into, "Oh, you really ought to look at this Packard Bell..."
--Richard
Actually, I'm just kidding, but moderators probably aren't reading this far and as a result I'm already moderated -89329983849294 king of trolls. But here's where I get serious. I actually bought three of the newest iBooks and I like them very much. With one, I got one of those supercool Wacom tablets that comes with a pen and mouse. With another, I got this bitchen ass digital camera that I snap over 300 pictures a day with. I use the third for development and for fucking around with UNIX and shit. It's really bitchen, finally having a UNIX OS with fancy graphics like PCs have. Oh well. Apple rules!
"Screw you, Adobe (After Effects)"
m l
-Apple
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/texteffects.ht
Hmmm. I just did an anywho search and couldn't find you, even when I narrowed it down to San Fransisco...
*psst* Michael..Uhm, *cough* look down.... .. dude, this was just posted
:)
Start the week of right, i guess...
WELCOME TO MY FOES LIST!!!
--
Apple sucks. Plain and simple. It goes like this. You pay like 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 bucks for a laptop with a 1 inch screen and a 1 button mouse. Then you have to pay for a shitload of software. The next thing you know, you have to pay for yet more shit. What the fuck?!! Why can't you download everything for free? The government should pay for it and everything in life should be free, 100%.
Actually, I'm just kidding, but moderators probably aren't reading this far and as a result I'm already moderated -89329983849294 king of trolls. But here's where I get serious. I actually bought three of the newest iBooks and I like them very much. With one, I got one of those supercool Wacom tablets that comes with a pen and mouse. With another, I got this bitchen ass digital camera that I snap over 300 pictures a day with. I use the third for development and for fucking around with UNIX and shit. It's really bitchen, finally having a UNIX OS with fancy graphics like PCs have. Oh well. Apple rules!
[ Reply to This ]
It is amusing to see that a 3-button mouse is listed under the requirements for the Mac version of shake.
it only works on a 1024 or better screen in it's latest incarnation. In their infinite wisdom Apple has made it impossible for me to use a native iMovie in OS X on my clamshell iBook. I have everything to run it except a 1024 display.
Exceptionally annoying.
That is, unless someone knows a workaround....
"Bah!" - Dogbert
Am I seeing double, or is this a dupe of the *previous story*.
"Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
Yeah it should also be noted that there is no longer a version of logic available for PC thanks to Apple buying out the company.
Basically that means that lots of home studio people who can't afford proprietary MAC hardware are out of luck if they want to get any updates for logic audio.
It seems apple's strategy might be to FORCE us to switch... Sounds almost like something MS would do.
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
Man, will you guys get your sh!t together? Now we have the same story twice on the main page, right next to each other.
I know, I know--it's a community, you aren't journalists, blah blah blah. But it's sloppy and lame and you can't MISS IT if you just look at the damn front page of the site.
I noticed it says "from the break-out-your-wallet dept."
Well, not for me! My friends Blackbeard, Long John, and Jean Lafite will see to that!
Fifteen men on a p2p node,
Yo ho ho, an illegal download!
Posted by Hemos on Monday April 07, @10:52AM
from the try-it-again dept.
chasingporsches writes "It appears that Apple released Final Cut Pro 4, Shake 3, and DVD Studio Pro 2. FCP4 has great new features, such as updated HD support, but unfortunately the usual hefty price tag ($999 full, $399 upgrade). Shake now has unlimited network rendering, and DVD Studio Pro 2 has a new basic/advanced user interface."
Please mod this parent down...what a waste of flesh.
> I know which is the solution an intelligent mind would pick.
Uhmmmm, in the professional world that would be using a commercial program like Final Cut Pro. Your reaction is that of a typical fanatical OSS advocate. Don't get me wrong, I like OSS software but there is a place for programs like FCP, Logic, Photoshop, Maya. Consider these programs as necessary tools. If you're a pro you want to get the job done quickly and in an excellent way. You don't to be writing scripts or farting around with obscure settings of alpha-release utilities. Speed of working will actually quickly pay off in the pro world...
regards, Tom
The really cool feature Apple introduced with Shake 3 is automatic clustering with Rendezvous. From Apple's Shake page:
Point and click clustering, courtesy of Apple. Looks like a good way to sell Apple's new XServe Cluster Node config.
--
The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.
Hi,
Can someone please tell me how to find the induced charge, if I know the equation for the electric field?
I have search the web and my notes but I'm stuck.
I have 2 conducting spherical shells. The outer one is grounded, the inner one has voltage V. I have worked out the equation for the electric field but I need to know the induced charge on the inner shell.
Can anyone help?
Cheers,
Ted
It will be interesting to see how well Digital Performer 4 works with Final Cut Pro 4. If those two could be work together well, things would be grand!
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
My high school television studio runs a multi-mac FCP shop, and swears by it. Most of the production that comes out of the lab is just as good as packages you'd see on CNN. Keep in mind that the students need about a week of training before they are off cutting news packages.
As far as software costs go, if a well-designed, full-featured commercial product comes out, there is no reason Slashdot should ignore it. When you spend your money on an Apple product, you get a tightly integrated piece of hardware/software that will work right, the first time, when you have no clue how to use it.
Also, what Free OSS tools? I did a search and came up only with Kino. A far cry from FCP or even iMovie.
On the other hand, I think professional applications like 3D animation software, pro audio editing, and the like is needed in the OSS/Linux arena. It's these apps that sell the OS.
__________
Love conquers all... except CANCER
And it's not even like one is on a subsite and the other's on the main page... they're both apple.slashdot.org stories...
Has anyone heard of that new RFC to add an evil bit to IPv4?
Lots of my friends who are Unix admins also, have been buying power macs for their desktops. So I decided to try a mac since OSX should rock with a freebsd (darwin) core. I just picked up my power mac yesterday, give you my impressions from a hardcore linux/solaris/xp user.
I wont even be using the machine for video edit (or not anytime soon). But the damn thing comes with some nice video editing features as standard. I can tell right away, that this OS is geared around it, all these iSuff on the desktop. Looks easy enough to put some dvd movies together. Not the direction im going, but its there, and in your face.
But onto my impressions of a unix workstation.
Pretty much a very nice machine, I grabbed apple developers tools, xtox, fink and all the goodies to enable X and some programs. Compiled all the terms (aterm/rxvt/eterm) and screen for me to start working. (Thank god for dsl)
First thing, I didnt even bother using the Mac keyboard or mouse. Used my windows M$ mouse/keyboard. Cant stand typing on anything other than the natural. And a wheel mouse is extremely nice. (Had to load osx drivers off m$ site to get it to work, yes osx drivers...) Not all features are supported or work right from app to app. Some standards would be nice. (Most programs are dumbed down to 1 mouse it seems also.)
Terminal, the weak client that it comes with cant hold its own with putty. I grabbed a OS9 client that supports more features and works much better. Tried to use some Aterm's with a vga font I installed. Font support is ok, but lacks good ansi/vt100 fonts which you can install manually for X, but for system, dunno yet. Antialaising looks like freetype (for all I know it could be..)
Cut/paste/select all is annoying as hell, no standard like windows, or even KDE/Icewm/CDE. Cant even hit home/end to move the cursor on some apps command line. Very freak'n weak in this area, maybe they will fix it, as is, I would like to bitch slap the apple devleopers for this. (This OS IS NOT command line friendly for text input...)
Alt-tab doesnt work, grabbed a 3rd party app to fix that. BUT (and horrible) all X programs show up as 1 program (same as finder, major suckage.) Finder is another waste of space, found a Midnight Commander clone, thank god. Copying files in the shell is quicker than moving around in Finder. Finder is the worst file manager i've ever seen. And I've had my share of them on many OS's.
You can tell Apple is moving this OS towards the home user, and video people. But with a bsd core, this os would rock with some tweaks for command line users. Too much work to get it to function as a terminal/ssh, multiple command window workstation. I'm looking around for apps, but this is to be a slap in the face of taking BSD and crippling it with horible text input. No, Really it is this bad, but it can be fixed.....
So far, finding software has been kinda hard. Only freeware stuff is ports from stuff you can find on freshmeat, and most 3rd party apps are shareware only. Ported Games dont even run smoothly on the 1.42ghz DP with the raedon 9000. Seti ran slower than expected, with the 2meg l3 cache thought it would run faster (yes I niced it...) (I only tried quake1, q3a,ut,u2k3,medal of honor demos. MOHAA ran the best and is osx not os9 versioned.
I will say, I wanted it for the bsd core, and awesome aqua qui. Thou after using it the command line (text) typing interface is weak, and needs improvement. But its a new O/S I hope they fix it. (Where can I ask developers at apple about this? How can you mess this up?) Its much improved over OS/9, and I can even ps and kill hung applications. Smb mount from the command line works. (Be careful, my first crash was smb mounting a share with blackslashs..)
If your just going to make movies on it, it works great, codecs work. Grabbed mplayer and with all codecs, watched some xvid divx files, smooth as silk. Even saw a program mencoder to dump dvd's right into divx on sourceforge, all gui'ed
amid surprisingly little fanfare Go to NAB tomorrow! You'll get plenty of fanfare.
While browsing around, I ran across this press release:
p ril/prod_san.html
http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/2003/a
Just 5 days ago the I went to visit Apple in Cupertino with my highschool's tech club. At the end of our visit they gave us (the school) a freebie - a full copy of Final Cut Pro 3. Now there's a 4? That's kinda annoying...
That is if you consider Logic to be professional. The latest version is behind on features and stability -- it even crashes if you try to export MIDI.
Apple believes in a reduced instruction mouse. That's why only one button is used.
i still think that i would rather get my hands on Pixar's rendering farm.
Alcohol & calculus don't mix. Never drink & derive.
The last article was from the "try-it-again department."
...They certainly did
I know lots of things. Most of them are wrong.
The people this stuff is aimed at are ones who aren't computer geeks. They want to use the stuff to make video, not hack around with computers.
You can get a Mac and the software, plug it in, install the programs, and be making video in two hours. Try that with OSS.
Intelligent minds aren't opposed to spending money if the result is making them more productive. If the goal is to be a computer geek, use Linux and open source software. If the goal is to make serious video, then even $10K for a set of tools tou can plug in and run right away with no hacking needed is well worth it.
Disinfect the GNU General Public Virus!
> iMovie
Can it do star wipes?
.sig last updated March 9, 1894
No way dude, it's all human error as described in Tacos' Journal.
Anyone naive enough to flame Apple because they think their hardware is too expensive should stop for a minute and take an honest look at what they actually offer. I decided to perform a quick comparison between a Powerbook and a Dell laptop to see which was the better buy. Note: this is a comparison between the 17" Powerbook and the best Dell laptop I saw configured up to the Powerbooks specs the best I could.
Processor:
Apple - 1 Ghz G4
Dell - 2 Ghz P4
Winner = debatable but I'll give it to Dell
RAM: Apple and Dell both 512 MB, tie
Hard Drive: 60 GB for both, tie
CD/DVD Drive:
Apple - CD-R/DVD-R
Dell - CD-R/DVD
Winner: Apple
Wired Networking:
Apple - 10/100/1000
Dell - 10/100
Winner: Apple
Wireless Networking:
Apple - builtin card and antennas
Dell - PC card can be added for extra
Winner: Apple
Graphics Card:
Apple - 64 MB Nvidia GeForce 4 440 Go
Dell - 64 MB Nvidia Geforce 4 4200
About the same performance = tie
Screen:
Apple - 17 in. widescreen
Dell - 15.4 in widescreen
Winner: Apple
Battery: Apple claims 4 hours, Dell claims 3
Winner: Performance is probably close but Apple might have a marginal lead
Warranty: both one year = tie
Software:
Apple - Mac OS X, iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, Image Capture, iCal, iChat, Mail, IE 5,
Dell - Windows XP Pro, Dell Jukebox Premium, Dell Picture Studio, Dell Movie Studio Essentials, Outlook Express, IE 6
Winner: most definitely Apple
Thickness and weight:
Apple - 1 in. 6.8 lbs.
Dell: 1.52 in. 6.9 lbs
Winner: Apple
Looks: Apple again, obviously
Price:
Apple - $3299
Dell - $2640
Winner: Dell
In summary, while the PC is a little bit cheaper and the processor a little faster, in virtually every other area the Mac comes out ahead. With a Mac, you get what you pay for. Sure the processor may be a little bit slower, but it isn't a dramatic difference and the overall value of the product is just as good as a PC.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
Lots of other companies have released new versons of their software. But they don't pay Slashdot for editorial advertisement, so they never make it into the front page (or into any other page, for that matter).
Can we please restrict the Apple ads to the banner at the top of the page? Or at least stop posting the same Apple "article" twice in a row. Thank you.
The default OSX terminal is giving one of my users trouble when they are telneting to their pine/client account. It seems to eat Ctr-o used for postponing messages in pine. Anyway to tell it not to do that, or any suggestions for an alternative terminal/text window that still supports the mac hotkeys and interface but works better?
1 1/2 hours away from each other... jeez
/me goes off to karma whore
[sigh]
WTPOUAWYHTTOTWPA
What's the point of using acronyms when you have to type out the whole phrase anyways?
1.4ghz DP Apple powermac
Apparently not. Clock for clock a single x86 box would cream the DP Apple for most tasks. Put down the kool-aid, and quit the skewed, dishonest price comparisons. DP workstations for PC are rare, not necessities due to the processor manufacturer's inability to scale clock speeds. Gush all you want about the "lickable" interface, Macs are not high end workstations.
are you suffering from water-on-the-brain?
On my Mac I have Pro Tools, PhotoShop (Hello Mr. GIMP, ever heard of MONITOR PROFILES? NO? GOODBYE!), Logic and a bunch of other stuff. They are professional quality and worth every fucking penny and annoying dongle.
On my Linux box I have problems PLAYING TWO SOUNDS AT ONCE, okay? That's the state of the art on my Linux machine.
That's why there's iTerm. Has most everything you would expect from a real terminal emulator, including tabs (yay!)
I was impressed with some aspects of OS X, but overall it doesn't offer much to me over linux, aside from a new UNIX to learn. Some things just plain irked me, like the fact that chsh is included with the OS, yet it does nothing. This is because apple decided all user information should be controlled by NetInfo Manager. Glad they told me. Anyway, despite minor problems (which are present in every OS, some more than others) using OS X was a fairly pleasant experience. However, purchasing a computer from Apple was not. After receiving an extremely defective powerbook and waiting 4 weeks for them to say "well gee, looks like we can't fix it. We'll give you a new one" which is the exact same thing I asked for 4 frickin' weeks ago. Hmm.. I think I'll take a refund and spend my money on something other than an overpriced, broken toy, thank you.
ARGH ARGH ARGH ARGH!
A week ago I spent $2,000 on Final Cut 3 and DVD Studio 1.5. My Mac isn't even here yet. Now I need to shell out $900 for updates (on top of the $500 price cut on DVD Studio)?!?
Fuck Apple, they just cost me $1,400...
Hex editor? Why, when I was YOUR age, we used to edit them on punch cards by punching out holes and filling in holes with little chads and tape!
I am an old-school video hacker.
Take it from me, I use Scissors, and Tape, which are free (not as in beer).
As long as you do not mind storying your video data on film, you should stop using proprietary tools so that movie production will forever be free and not controlled by the evil corporate fat-cats sitting there smugly, smoking their cigars!!! (Oops, wrong canned rant for this topic...)
1) Toke
2) Post
3) Profit
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
I mean, the story just before this one was about apple releasing new versions of Final Cut, Shake and DVD Studio. Now another release?! Their turn around is like 30 min!! Amazing!!
FCP3 can be unpredictably unstable on OS-X sometimes. Rumor has it that there is still a lot of legacy Windows code in the FCP codebase (from way back when Final Cut was supposed to be Macromedia's cross-platform editing app) that is assumed to be completely gone in FCP4, as they rewrote the code from the ground up for OS-X.
I'm wondering if they're trying to compete for the slice of the "Titanic","LODR" pie that Linux is presently playing in.
I've called up Apple when something like this happened to me. If you talk to the right people and have a serious issue, they'll frequently do something about your problem.
Now, I'm not sure that 'I bought this software that will work fine for me just before it was upgraded and I want the new version for free' is a serious issue. After all, what exactly is it about the new versions that you *have* to have, and why did you buy the old versions if they wouldn't do what you needed them to?
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
my whole computer's out of the trash. it was free, except for $60 of memory I put in it. on my windows partition I have protools, photoshop, paint shop pro.
you remember the 17" Studio Display? mine came in a box that said sony trinitron. I bought it from my friend for $20.
On my Linux box I have problems PLAYING TWO SOUNDS AT ONCE, okay? That's the state of the art on my Linux machine.
on my linux partition I have an ALSA patched kernel. 24 tracks in Ardour, no problem. just recorded an EP with it. honestly it's more stable than protools ' uptime-eliminating DAE on macos *or* windows.
I am thinking about upgrading from my athlon 550 though.
Funny you should mention your stuff looks as good as CNN since CNN has issued all of its field reporters PowerBooks with FCP.
Tea and kung-fu. Life is good. Rising Phoenix
Alas its true
. html :(
2002 was the right date
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/jul/01emagic
sniff
9. No clip dupe detection in the timeline
Long taken for granted among Avid editors, dupe detection is incredibly helpful, especially when cutting longform documentaries and music videos.
When editing film on a computer (for conforming back to film), you can't use the same piece of film negative more than once. That is, unless you want to have to create extra copies of the negatives every time you reuse footage.
Since FCP now supports film projects, dupe detection is essential. In fact, for 16mm film, you have to be especially careful, since the gluing together of clips actually "eats" a frame of negative every time.
W
Oh, and yeah.. it would be nice if slashdot had dupe-detection built in as well.
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Then you're obviously just going along accepting the defaults, I've had decent media management since FCP 1.0 and never had an issue, all you do is set the capture scratch to your project dir, and name your clips when capturing.
/* FUCK - The F-word is here so that you can grep for it */
I don't think many readers care about the mental process you went through while you wrote this comment. There's no good reason to have told us that you had lost your train of thought while writing. After all, you are writing, not talking.
Paragraphs would have helped, too.
Sorry to be so picky, I just can't help myself.
I'm surprised they didn't change the user interface of Shake to better match Final Cut Pro. Just lightening the grey and changing the tabs to match FCP4s would do a world of difference.
Yes, this is probably not a priority in a production tool like this, but Shake looks really out of place on a Mac OS X system.
"I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
Who this?
I'm sorry but you are just wrong. You obviously haven't done your research. You are off on so many counts that you should be embarrased.
"Processor:
Apple - 1 Ghz G4
Dell - 2 Ghz P4
Winner = debatable but I'll give it to Dell"
Bzzzzt! You're joking right? Debatable? No, it is not in any way debatable. A 2Ghz P4 smokes a 1Ghz G4. You are two years behind the times if you still buy into the myth propagated by Apple that Mhz don't matter.
"Wired Networking:
Apple - 10/100/1000
Dell - 10/100
Winner: Apple"
If you are one of a minority of people who need this, then you can also get it with a pcmcia card for the Dell. Yes, Apple here, but this is hardly a primary concern.
"Wireless Networking:
Apple - builtin card and antennas
Dell - PC card can be added for extra
Winner: Apple"
Bzzzzt! If you choose to configure the Dell yourself an internal wireless card/antenna can be included.
"Graphics Card:
Apple - 64 MB Nvidia GeForce 4 440 Go
Dell - 64 MB Nvidia Geforce 4 4200
About the same performance = tie"
Bzzzzt! The 440 Go doesn't support programmable pixel shaders - that is a major issue.
"Screen:
Apple - 17 in. widescreen
Dell - 15.4 in widescreen
Winner: Apple"
Bzzzzt! We aren't comparing desktops here - we are comparing latops. Either Apple loses here or Apple loses in dimensions/weight.
"Battery: Apple claims 4 hours, Dell claims 3
Winner: Performance is probably close but Apple might have a marginal lead"
Bzzzzt! The Dell has a free expansion port for a second battery (identical to the first). It in fact does double battery time.
"Warranty: both one year = tie"
Bzzzzt! For a small amount if you choose to configure your Dell you can get a 3 year warranty that provides on site service and will optionally cover even ACCIDENTAL damage INCLUDING to the SCREEN.
"Thickness and weight:
Apple - 1 in. 6.8 lbs.
Dell: 1.52 in. 6.9 lbs
Winner: Apple"
Bzzzzt! Again, either Apple loses here or Apple loses in the screen department.
You are either lying through your teeth or you are absolutely ignorant. Your claims are laughable.
You have been DEBUNKED.
Just a note so people know where these apps fit in to workflows: (feel free to correct any innacuracies)
FINAL CUT PRO 4
Non Linear Editor. Now works with DV, DV-Pro(more bandwidth, better resolution/quality), film, and aparently anything in between. Other things to note are a new Title generator, audio mixer, and lots of tools (color correction, various video analizers). If you dont work in video production, the reasons for choosing an Avid over FCP might not seem readily apparent, especially considering the potential cost difference, but it mostly has to do with what you can do in real time(rendering effects and dissolves in software can get tedius with hi rez footage)
SHAKE 3
Compositing software. NOT a direct competitor to combustion or after effects. They all have their place in the workflow, and it would do a potential buyer well to know which tool will fulfill the requirements of their project. It is not for special effects so much (by itself, though you would composite them in on it), and dos not have the 3d support of combustion. It does however work very well for film resolutions, and has a very powerfull workflow.
DVD STUDIO 2
DVD Studio offered the most accessable way to profession DVD authoring I had found (compared to the products for windows, which had potentially more power, but were messy at best to work with). Looks as though ver.2 will up the flexibility while improving the workflow. Also, big tools that were missing from ver.1 are better compressors with more granular control, timline for integrating various video, audio, and subtitles, and better integration with final cut pro.
All in all, Apple is offering a very compelling set of tools for a wide subset of motion media production. Ugg dont want to sound like an ad, but do yourself a favor and look in to an apple solution if your going to buy tools to work in video.
"Stuff... In my home!? NEVER!" - Zim on Invader Zim
"I want the toilet seat!" - Little Dog on Two Stupid Dogs
RAM: Apple and Dell both 512 MB, tie
You didn't mention what type of memory it is. If the Dell had DDR and the Apple had SD 133 I'm pretty sure they advantage goes to dell.
Software:
Apple - Mac OS X, iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, Image Capture, iCal, iChat, Mail, IE 5,
Dell - Windows XP Pro, Dell Jukebox Premium, Dell Picture Studio, Dell Movie Studio Essentials, Outlook Express, IE 6
Winner: most definitely Apple
For most desktop users only the IE and iTunes/Jukebox would be used very much. IE 5 is nothing to brag about and neither is Safari so far. As for Ichat, The dell likly has or can download MSN/ICQ. And both of those would find a greater chance of having friends on that system than Ichat.
Graphics Card:
Apple - 64 MB Nvidia GeForce 4 440 Go
Dell - 64 MB Nvidia Geforce 4 4200
About the same performance = tie
I hope this is a typo, else your going to start claiming that your G3 will out perform A P4 3gzh.
Price:
Apple - $3299
Dell - $2640
Winner: Dell
In summary, while the PC is a little bit cheaper and the processor a little faster, in virtually every other area the Mac comes out ahead. With a Mac, you get what you pay for. Sure the processor may be a little bit slower, but it isn't a dramatic difference and the overall value of the product is just as good as a PC.
A bit cheaper? With 600$ you could buy another computer, or upgrade that version of the dell. For 600 hundred dollars you could make that dell come out ahead in non-virtually every other area. As for Value, Value is defined as
Value:An amount, as of goods, services, or money, considered to be a fair and suitable equivalent for something else; a fair price or return.
now if it's just as good as you say, how is it also good value at 25% greater cost than the PC? If it was 25% better over all, then they would be equivilent values, but the only real edge the Mac has is in some of it's software and few bits of the hardware it offers.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
A couple other people have already pointed out, but I really have to restate: the GF4 440 Go is nowhere near the same class a chip as the GF4 4200. The "440 Go" is a low-power version of the GF4MX, which in turn is just a souped-up GF2. The GF4 4200 is MASSIVELY better.
The GF4MX series (including the Go) play today's 3D software fine, but are mostly useless for tomorrow's stuff (like Doom3). The GF4 series is almost absurdly overpowered for today's software, and is ready for tomorrow's. (and this doesn't even touch on the new ATI and GF-FX cards...)
In most of the other comparisons (except for the processor speed, which I find largely irrelevent), I tend to agree with your assessments, however.
// I will show you fear in a handful of jellybeans.
my whole computer's out of the trash. it was free, except for $60 of memory I put in it. on my windows partition I have protools, photoshop, paint shop pro.
Wow, what a coincidence! I found my computer in the trash a few weeks ago too. It's one of those 1.4GHz dual G4 PowerMac jobbies. Your point was?
Come on guys, this shows up BACK TO BACK with Hemo's story.
/. crew does not have the "show all stories on all sections on the main page" option set, but they should.
Perhaps the
www.eFax.com are spammers
An eMachine that looks good on paper can be had for $550 or so. By looks good on paper I mean that will have impressive sounding specs like 40GB HDD, 1.8 Ghz processor and so forth. It will also feature a wimpy power supply. The build quality of the motherboard and included periphreals will be low as possible. The motherboard will probably use some weird chipset to boot. Beyond questionable hardware there will be software hassles. The default desktop will assault you with banner ads and it will have a shotgun spray of shovelware icons all over it. It will include "restore cds" instead of a true XP Home install CD. Which means re-gutting all of that crap should you ever have to use it.
Spending more money ups the quality of the hardware but even Dells and Gateways have the "shotgun spatter" default desktops and restore partitions. In all, it sounds like my idea of "annoyed lots".
I wouldn't say that Apple CPU's suck but Intel and AMD parts that will handily outperform them at most tasks fairly cheaply is a persistant reality. Yes, Apples have other merits that compensate for this. No argument.....I'm posting this from a Pismo Powerbook. It may be that Apple can correct that with upcoming parts but it isn't here today.
Combine this with Logic and you've got an entire professional movie studio on your Mac.
:p
What!? EMACS has had that for years
'No publisher will ever pay you enough to successfully sue them' - Dave Sim
I can confirm that a Microsoft wheel mouse works on OS X with no drivers. You get left click, right click and the wheel for free. If you have one of the megamice with side buttons, you'll need a driver to map the side buttons.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Do you have ANY idea what you're talking about? No? Then shut up.
So when's Bill gonna port this to Windows?
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
ummm...no.
I didn't even mention FCP's absolutely stupid and annoying "Scratch Disk" convention (and not to mention the annoying-as-fuck way it defaults to the last scratch folders used with the last opened project, even if you're creating a new blank project), because pretty much everyone who uses FCP on a daily basis all knows it sucks and hates it.
You're obviously not familiar with the Media Manager tool I was referring to, or the sequence/project consolidation process. It seems like it should work, but it doesn't, and many people (including myself) have been burned very badly because we trusted that Apple would give us a Media Manager tool that actually works, when it really doesn't.
It's a very well known bone of contention among professional FCP editors.
I hope Al Gore sleeps soundly at night knowing that each and every apple computer he helps sell contains pounds of toxic wastes.
/. angst about how he got the Apple board of directors position as payback for taking on Microsoft during the Clinton administration.
I also hear his book will be revised to "Earth in the Balance, except for Apple Computer's Pollution of the Earth".
I am still waiting for some
Damn I wish I had mod points now...
This is a great point that never occurred to me until now. The Command key on Mac keyboards definitely make these repetitive shortcuts easier, as your thumb naturally rests on that key anyway. Switching to your pinky to hold down "Control" on Windows is forever going to be annoying as hell for me, now that I am aware of this subtle Mac difference. :)
Actually NVidia includes special video drivers to accelerate Windows graphics functions (GDI+, I believe)... at least on the Toshiba laptop I got (atellite 2435).
Sadly, the Toshiba (P4 2.4ghz) smokes... smoke isn't even the word... kills my G4(s) in terms of performance. Speed-wise there is no comparison whatsoever.
Don't bother with linux, you would be much happier with OS X. Since Apple is "the" gay comuter, not only will you find support for your system but your new lifestyle as well. I hope this helps.
That was supposed to be computer. Sorry for any confusion.
Ever try getting a budget-constrained school to spend $10,000 per seat for video editing tools? Good luck. My 9th grade son is working to set up a video editing media lab at his high school, which is having to lay teachers off next year because of budget shortfalls.
The only way to achieve this in the current economic climate is by going for low-cost solutions. This means using either 1) low cost or free commercial software, which is usually very limiting (e.g., single track, poor effects control, etc.), or 2) using open source software, which tends to be better in capabilities, but more buggy and harder to set up and use.
He's put together a demonstration system using Linux, Cinelerra, Blender, Gimp, Transcode, and mjpegtools. No, it's not all simple point-and-click brain-dead easy, and some of the software, particularly Cinelerra, is still buggy and crashes periodically, but there is a surprising amount of functionality there for a very reasonable cost (like $0.00).
Yes, there will likely be a bigger learning curve than for the $10,000 package, and some technical knowledge will be required to get the good results that are possible from this. In some ways this is a good thing - there is nothing wrong with high schoolers coming away with a little technical knowledge.
Haven't gotten my mod points yet this week. Good press release, involving 2 of my favorite Unix companies (yay). Oh, and the parent was NOT offtopic, stupid mods. You probably want the best performance SAN you can get for digital video work!
I find it ironic you title your post "An Honest Comparison," when it obviously wasn't. Take your ignorant nonsense elsewhere please.
Maybe you didn't read the title of the article, but these things aren't aimed at school labs, for that they've got the free iMovie. And Final Cut Express is $200 (or $250, I forgot) for education usage. Yes, you can create an even cheaper setup with an old PC, Linux and those free software tools you mentioned, but the discussion on whether or not that's a better deal than Apple's comparable offerings is completely besides the point of this story.
Donate free food here
You can put together a viable suite for about $1500 (G4 eMac + RAM + Final Cut Pro Academic or Final Cut Express + Photoshop Elements). It might actually be better for a high school lab to use something like iMovie, to get them to concentrate on the editing (pacing, etc) rather than learning a professional tool.
That's not free, but that's not $10K either.
there is nothing wrong with high schoolers coming away with a little technical knowledge.
Except that "technical knowledge" may come out of the precious time they have access to the lab, and were supposed to be using to edit videos. I have nothing against having kids work within tight constraints. However, the constraints need to be carefully evaluated against the objectives of the course.
Except for, you know, the sets and the lights and the cameras and everything...
FCP4 still doesn't provide support for closed captions. You could fake open captions with sub-titles, but that's way too much work. Us folks in the Federal government can't produce multimedia without captions. It would be nice to have an all-in-one package that did this for us. Can you image having to post-process HTML in order to include ALT tags?
"Amid surprisingly little fanfare, Apple today updated their entire professional video lineup..."
I bet that if you had been in Las Vegas today, there would have been plenty of fanfare. The National Association of Broadcasters conference is currently underway there. It's a gigantic gathering of people in that business and I'm sure that's why Apple timed things the way they did...
If you have to be a CS guy to make video, then that is a problem. You're not serving students with crashy tools that the CREATIVE ones can't use. It's no good having Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman making movies about how to install the OS while Francis Ford Coppola sketches scenes from The Godfather in an 8x10 notebook.
Cheap video workstations: ANY MAC. All inclusive. The machines are even cheaper to education than they are at retail. Even the $699 "classic" iMac comes with iMovie and FireWire. Students make movies on iBooks with no additional software.
For about $1500 you can get a flat panel iMac with a DVD burner in it and an EASY three-year working span (they guarantee that and the rest is gravy). Without any additional hardware or software, any halfway interested CREATIVE student can make a DVD with production values that most people can't tell from Hollywood. Everything is there, all the encoding and 50+ media formats. The software all updates itself, too.
It is not 1987.
I already replied, but I have to say one more thing ...
... don't make it a hurdle when a used iMac with iMovie and a FireWire port can be had for paper route money. Seriously. Easy desktop video on the cheap is news in 2000, maybe. It's 2003 and we expect a cheap system to also have iDVD and a DVD burner, because you can get those systems for $50/month assuming a three-year working life and they don't even need IT staff.
> In some ways this is a good thing - there is nothing
> wrong with high schoolers coming away with a little
> technical knowledge.
By technical here, you mean CS-technical, computer-technical.
Video is a technical field, but students who want to make movies or TV have their own universe of technical details to master. Like cameras, lenses, light, colors, composition, DV, MPEG-4, audio sampling rates and bit depths, color depths, narrative, storytelling, dialogue, theme. Go to an Apple Store and just look at Final Cut and imagine that all the things you don't understand about its dials and buttons and meters and functions were a penalty you had to pay just to program a computer.
The attitude that it's "good" for students, in addition to the subject their studying, to also get a castor-oil like lump of computer science medicine is really, really educationally damaging. When a kid who lives and breathes MOVIES shows up at a VIDEO LAB, do not teach them CS. Do not require them to jump CS hurdles. You didn't start programming by being force-fed movie-making so why should they know UNIX to make movies. iMovie is free and it runs on a UNIX that doesn't require any admin.
There is a ridiculous bigotry amongst CS-types that somehow the computer is the only technical thing in the world and everyone has to get a taste of it. It completely ignores that a doctor or lawyer or architect or movie maker has their own technical world to master. Just because a computer is general purpose and can be used to instantiate a video-editing system at will, that doesn't mean that video editors will want to learn to work a command line. Maybe they will, maybe they won't
You can put together a viable suite for about $1500
This is true, but in our particular case, even this it too much. Next year, due to budget constraints, the school will be laying off several teachers and eliminating several courses school wide. This effort to set up a small cinematography lab is being funded entirely from parent donations, so it really has to be extremely inexpensive.
The demo system we put together with the above mentioned OSS software was based on an Athlon 2000+ platform and totaled out around $400 for everything, assuming a 17" monitor. Even at this price, we probably won't be able to afford as many machines as we would like.
Additionally, even though the OSS tools are not yet as polished as their commercial counterparts, they are still quite usable once you get past the initial learning curve, and the amount of technical knowledge shouldn't be overwhelming to the point where it hinders their creative efforts. The GUI-based tools such as Cinelerra and GIMP are not that hard to use, and the common command line operations can be wrapped in simple scripts by the more computer savvy students. These students are at an age where they are capable of picking up new things fairly quickly. A handful of the kids are already technically inclined, and this should help smooth things out for the others.
However, the constraints need to be carefully evaluated against the objectives of the course.
Definitely true, but unfortunately in this case, they also need to be evaluated against the possibility of not getting anything at all, or getting significantly less than we want.
I'll respond to this posting because it is much more well thought out and a lot less inflammatory than your other reply.
As I mentioned in a reply to another post, the budget constraints we are under are such that unless we go *extremely* inexpensive, we may either end up with nothing, or very much less than we wanted (this particular effort is completely parent-funded).
As I also mentioned in the other post, the tools involved here, although they are less polished than their commercial counterparts, are not actually *that* bad (I probably made it sound worse than it actually is). In some ways, they are even better than some of the other tools mentioned. For example, iMovie would probably be inadequate - we need at least the ability to do multi-track editing and compositing. Final Cut Express provides this capability and would probably work for us, but it still costs $299 (maybe a bit less with discounts), and it doesn't have keyframe controlled effects (which Cinelerra does).
You are right that there are already many technical aspects to making videos and movies, as well as many artistic aspects. The point is that it is not necessary to make CS experts out of everyone to use our paradigm. We're not talking about compiling and installing kernels or setting up firewalls here, we're talking about maybe having to type in a one-liner into a command prompt window to do something that might be a menu item or GUI function in the commercial program. Someone who can master all of the other technical details you mentioned can probably handle this.
It's true that there will be some "real" CS knowledge required to get things all set up, but that will be handled by the hadful of kids involved who actually *are* computer-savvy (there are several).
When are these power tools going to be available on Limewire so that I can download them?
Apple, I hope you are laughing at this, and not calling your lawyer.
Apple - 17 in. widescreen
Dell - 15.4 in widescreen
Winner: Apple
Screen:
Apple - 1440 x 900
Dell - 1920 x 1440
Winner: Dell, most definitely
Wireless Networking:
Apple - builtin card and antennas
Dell - PC card can be added for extra
Winner: Apple
Wireless Networking:
Apple - builtin card and antennas
Dell - builtin MiniPCI card and antennas ($99 option - still cheaper)
Winner: tie
Thickness and weight:
Apple - 1 in. 6.8 lbs.
Dell: 1.52 in. 6.9 lbs
Winner: Apple
Dimensions:
Apple - 15.4 x 10.2 x 1.0 in.
Dell - 14.2 x 10.9 x 1.6 in.
Winner: Apple is thinner, Dell is shorter
Max Memory:
Apple - 1 GB
Dell - 2 GB
Winner: Dell (who uses 512 MB, esp. if running Shake/etc?)
People have already pointed out that a 4200 Go trounces an 440 Go. WinXP also comes with Movie Maker 2, Windows Media Player etc, which have similar functionality to the bundled Apple utilities.
While I admire the look of the Powerbooks, for my usage (mobile media workstation & code development), I require high resolution, fast CPU & gfx, and lots of memory. For me, the Dell wins out comfortably, and the cheaper price is icing. YMMV, of course.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
The 4200 does not "trounce" the 440. It does offer respectably better performance, and I admit I should have indicated that. However, an actual comparison of frame rates and such would be very similar since as you point out the 4200 has to drive a higher res display.
-You may license this sig for only $6.99.
> They never, ever comment about upcoming hardware, so if you for example bought a gen. 2 iMac (the multi-flavor
> ones) the day before they released the iMac DV at the same price, you were screwed.
Okay. First, I must admit, I can see how this sort of thing would be annoying.
That said, even if I'm NOT playing devil's advocate, I can't see how the word 'screwed' applies. You paid X amount of money for a computer. Apparently you thought it would be worth it. Is the computer less than you hoped it would be? Does it not do what you wanted it to?
Basically, you're arguing that you're 'screwed' because if you'd waited a week you could have gotten something better for the same amount of money. Well, surprise, that's always true, albeit not usually in such a short-term way. You buy a computer and you use it. And then another computer comes out that's faster for the same amount of money.
Are you 'screwed' when you buy something and then six months later something faster comes out for the same amount of money? How about three months? One month? Is there a magical screwing cut-off date? If so, where? Why?
I submit that you might be annoyed, or even disgruntled, but you're not 'screwed' in any way that really matters. 'Screwed' is what happens when a computer company *does* pre-announce their next big thing. See, for example, Osbourne.
If you want to be certain that this doesn't happen to you, always do one of two things:
1) buy a computer (or piece of software) the week after comes out. Even the ill-fated Mac IIvx lasted more than two months.
2) buy a computer (or piece of software) the week after ITS SUCCESSOR comes out. You're a step behind the technology curve, true, but you're also spending half the money (or less), and you're still not surprised by the announcement.
-fred
Sign #11 of Slashdot overdose: You see the phrase 'moderate Republican' and you wonder if that would be a +1 or a -1.
Have you looked into grants? I had a teacher that got himself a grant, not sure where from maybe it was a fedral grant? But anyway he ended up getting enough money to buy 10 Powermac G4's with the 17" Studio display's and one of them had a multi media package that came with ALL SORTS of things like FCP and things I never even got to play with.
Get any other Apple and you'll notice the difference: the iBook is the only G3 computer left.
Real men take a canister of unexposed film and manipulate its molecules with the sheer force of their will to be organised into the proper sequence of transparent colors and magnetic waveforms.
And that's just the n00bs. Back in my day, we had to create the film from scratch, borrowing molecules from film scraps we pulled out of a movie studio's waste bin.
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